October 2, 2020 • 39 mins
Fred Guttenberg loved watching Mr. Rogers with his daughter and his son when they were little. Their favorite piece of wisdom was: In the midst of tragedy and catastrophe, find the helpers. He has carried this life lesson with him, and is now sharing it in his new book, Find the Helpers: What 9/11 and Parkland Taught Me About Recovery, Purpose, and Hope. Fred is the father of 14-year-old Jaime Guttenberg, who was killed when thirty-four people were shot at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida in 2018. Since her death, Fred has been fighting tirelessly to pass gun violence prevention legislation, and to honor Jaime's life with the non-profit Orange Ribbons for Jaime. Together, he and hosts Kelly and JJ talk about his journey since Jaime's death, and how he has been able to survive thanks to the kindness and compassion of others.
Mentioned in this podcast:
“Always look for the helpers. There will always be helpers. Because if you look for the helpers, you’ll know there’s hope.” (Fred Rogers, interview with Television Academy, 1999
Overcoming Grief Through The Humanity Of Others (Orange Ribbons for Jaime)
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℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.
Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.
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In a crisis? Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a Crisis Counselor 24/7.
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
JJ Janflone (00:08):
Hey everybody, this is the legal disclaimer where I
tell you that the views thoughtsand opinions shared on this
podcast blog solely to ourguests and hosts and not
necessarily Brady or Brady'saffiliates. Please note this
podcast contains discussions ofviolence that some people may
find disturbing. It's okay, wefind it disturbing too.
Hey everybody. Welcome toanother minisode of "Red, Blue
(00:42):
and Brady." Today, Kelly and Iare really just I think
overwhelmed and so excited tospeak with Fred Gutenberg, who
is the author of a brand newbook entitled "Find the Helpers:
What 9/11 and Parkland taught meabout recovery purpose and
hope." Now, if you don't know,Fred, you should. After the
(01:03):
murder of his 14 year olddaughter, Jaime at the Parkland
school shooting, Fred has reallylaunched himself into activism,
and been so, so proactive andfighting for gun violence
prevention. He also runs a greatnonprofit entitled, Orange
Ribbons for Jaime that'sdedicated to Jaime's life. We
(01:25):
have so much to talk about withhim from, from the book to Jaime
to what inspired him to actuallyto look for the helpers. But
even more than that, you know,overcoming grief through this
idea of the humanity of others.
So without further ado, I reallywant to want to get to it. And
Fred, can Kelly and I have youintroduce yourself?
Fred Guttenberg (01:46):
You know, listen, I guess people know who
I am. My name is FredGuttenberg. I'm a father of two
children. And one of them I getto hang out with every single
day. And the other one I visitin a cemetery. Unfortunately, my
children were victims of gunviolence at Marjory Stoneman
(02:07):
Douglas High School in Parklandin 2018. My daughter was killed
there that day, and my son heardthe bullets that we're doing it.
And so he lives with that aswell. And I have spent every day
of my life since then, fightingto do something about this, call
it a pandemic, I guess, thisemergency this issue of gun
(02:28):
violence. Four months prior tomy daughter's murder, I lost my
brother to cancer related to hisservice in 9/11. So, I now go
forward in life with the twotoughest people I've ever known
in my life standing on myshoulders determined to be part
of the solution on reducing gunviolence in America.
JJ Janflone (02:48):
Well, and I think I want to I want to start there
with that, because there are twopeople then that you mentioned
directly there, which are Jaimeand Michael, right, who
unfortunately are no longer withus. And so I want to start, can
you tell us about Jaime?
Fred Guttenberg (03:03):
Yeah. Jaime was my amazing, beautiful
14-year-old daughter. People whohave heard her story know, she
was a competitive dancer, butshe was also what I like to call
the life of the party because ofher energy. You were always
laughing because of Jaime oralways yelling because of Jaime,
(03:24):
because you were always reactingto Jaime. There was no other way
around it. Jaime was a kid whoyou know, as I say, in my book,
was born with the tough gene.
She knew right from wrong. Shealways stood on the side of
right. She always defended kidswho were being bullied, even
though she was not a big kidherself. She would literally
(03:45):
walk in the middle, if you sawsomething going on. And she
volunteered her time for kidswith all sorts of different
special needs. Because she justfelt like they deserved the same
opportunities every single daythat she had. And she was just,
listen, she was my girl. Thatwas my baby. I miss her every
(04:09):
second of every day.
Kelly Sampson (04:12):
Thank you so much for sharing that, I can't even
imagine what it's like to sharethose memories with us. And to
that end, we're going to askwhat happened on February 14
2018.
Fred Guttenburg (04:27):
So on February 14, which for anyone who
recognizes that date, that'sValentine's Day, a day of love.
And at the time in 2018, Jaimewas 14, Jessie was 16. And I
actually, with my wife, had areal special night planned. We
(04:48):
really wanted to introduce theromance of Valentine's Day to
our kids. And we sent our kidsout the door that morning to go
to school, to get them out ofthe house, so I could just
finish some of what I wanted todo to get ready for the night. I
rushed my kids out the door thatday because they were running
late, which was not uncommon, bythe way, as a parent of two
(05:09):
teens. You know, any parentunderstands kids run late, they
get distracted, my wife and Ineeded to get ready for the day.
What I remember about thatmorning was rushing my children
out the door, it wasn't holdingthem back for that one extra
second to say I love you. It was"get out the door, you need to
get to school," because schoolis where we send them to learn,
(05:31):
with the expectation thatthey're going to be safe. And
just after two o'clock that day,my son called to tell me that
there's a shooter at his school.
And I asked him where he was. Hetold me he was outside he was
running, but he couldn't findJaime. And my son watched his
sister like a hawk. He wanted toturn around and look for her.
(05:53):
And I had to convince him tokeep running, especially when he
was telling me he was hearingmore bullets. Never in a million
years did I imagine my daughterwould be one of those kids
getting shot and killed thatday, but she was. And thank God,
my son made it off the campus, Iwas able to pick him up. And I
guess my life has become apretty public spectacle since
(06:16):
then. Because I don't want to bea dad who has to watch other
moms and dads go through whatI'm going through, so I want to
be a dad who's part of solvingthis.
JJ Janflone (06:33):
I want to say one, thank you again, for sharing
Fred and continuing to shareJaime's story and what you and
your family went through. Andreading the book, I think was
really special for me, becauseit gives insight, sort of, into
your family. It gives I mean,the little stories about Jaime,
(06:54):
but also the stories about therelationship that she had with
Jesse. Yeah, I think we'rereally important because I
think, and we'll talk about thisa little bit later in the book,
obviously, you talk a lot aboutpeople who are helpers. And
Jesse seems almost like one ofthe first helpers, you know that
he definitely is a person whowants to help.
Fred Guttenberg (07:12):
Listen, that's who he is. Jesse idolized his
uncle, who was my brother whopassed away four months before
Jaime was killed. That was hisrole model in life. You know, my
brother has never been anythingbut a helper to others. He's
never really thought so muchabout himself. You know, my
brother always was there to takecare of and help others.
JJ Janflone (07:34):
And this is Michael. Correct?
Fred Guttenberg (07:35):
Correct. And that's who Jesse's role model
was, still is. And so, Jesse'smentality is always to put the
well being of others ahead ofhimself, which worries me
because that mentality is notuncommon amongst first
responders, which is why theyput themselves into danger that
I never would even think of. Andas a father, I worry about him
(07:59):
because of that mentality. Butit's also what makes him
amazingly special.
JJ Janflone (08:03):
Well, and I wonder if you could too, just for
people who haven't read the bookyet, I mean, obviously, they
should immediately go read it.
Fred Guttenberg (08:09):
Thank you
JJ Janflone (08:10):
But I'm wondering if you if you could talk about
Michael as well, a little bit,because I think and you talked
about this in the book, one ofthe things I think that really
activated you was also the lossof Michael with, from illnesses
related to him being your firstresponder on 9/11.
Fred Guttenberg (08:28):
Listen, my brother has been a first
responder for as long as I canremember. He started, gosh, when
were kids on bicycles, he wouldbe chasing ambulances and police
cars just to be around, to seewhat was going on, and then
eventually became an EMT as ateenager, and eventually, you
know, after college, went on tomedical school, and started
(08:48):
working as an emergency roomphysician. At the time of 9/11
he was the deputy medicaldirector of the New York Fire
Department and his office waslike two blocks away from the
World Trade Center. So I was ona flight that morning, to Key
West with one of my employees,and we land. My wife's calling
me, the First World Trade Centerhad already been hit, but the
(09:11):
second one had not yet been hit.
And we were watching from theairport in Key West. And after
the second one got hit, maybeeven before that, I started
getting on the phone with all myfamily, because we all know my
brother. And we also knew wherehe would be, you know, with his
office having just been veryclose to the World Trade Center.
And knowing my brother Michaelthe way I do, I knew while
(09:34):
everyone else was running away,he was going to be running in.
That's just the way he waswired. And we weren't wrong.
That day went by with us hearingnothing from Michael and
panicking over the fact that wewere hearing nothing from
Michael. By the afternoon, we'dlost hope. We started thinking
(09:57):
he was going to be gone. Until alady, who went by where the
first responders were and tookdown names and phone numbers,
she's, to me one of the greatheroes of my life, although I'll
never meet her, called myparents and just said, I've
spoken to your loved one, he isalive. And that was the first
sign of life we had of mybrother who, believe it or not,
(10:20):
while in the World Trade Centerthat day, was in there when it
collapsed, hid out in a room, abasement level room, for
whatever reasons, the room thathe and about 10 other people hid
out in did not collapse.
Although it was blocked bydebris, they had to find an
(10:40):
alternative way out no separatefrom the way they went in. And
rather than run and get the heckout of there, they spent the
next 16 days at Ground Zerotaking care of people. That
exposure and time eventually ledto him getting cancer related to
his service in 9/11, diagnosedin 2013, with pancreatic cancer.
(11:03):
Surgery, chemo radiation, and heseemed like he was going to be
cancer-free. Like, not onlywould my brother survive the
World Trade Center falling onhim, but he was now going to
survive a pancreatic cancerdiagnosis. Unfortunately, in
2016, the cancer came back thistime and his lungs, stomach, and
his liver, and it was too muchto battle. And in October of
(11:26):
2017, he passed away.
JJ Janflone (11:28):
It's I think, that's, that's one of the
hardest things I think, and Idon't know if, I mean, Fred, and
Kelly, you, Fred, you as asurvivor, yourself, and and
Kelly and I, because we're inthese spaces alive, right? We
hear so many stories of soamazingly good people, like
Michael, like Jaime, that are nolonger with us, because of
(11:50):
violence. And, um, you know, andso there's these like this
deeply sad, and to be quitehonest, like frustrating, and
like infuriating loss, and thenthere's also, you know, stories
throughout of how much good theydid during their lives. And
like, the good people who arelike, I'm just gonna go out and
write down names. I'm gonna gopass out water, I'm gonna do
(12:13):
something.
Fred Guttenberg (12:14):
And we dont ever hear about them, and we
don't know about them. I, thislady who did this, who, for all
I know, was exposed to all thetoxins, and also ended up with
9/11 related illnesses, which isentirely possible. This lady
never told my family or otherfamilies that she called, who
(12:35):
she was. It was in a day, youknow, before all the smartphones
and everything we have now. Soyou know, and she, because she
called my parents who, on a homephone, and my parents didn't
really have caller ID orwhatever at the time. We have
that we have no way of backtracing. But this lady did this
(12:56):
for many families-- and thislady is a hero. And there are so
many heroes and helpers, andamazing people in this country
that affect so many families inamazing ways that we don't think
about. Some are so private, somepeople are well known, but they
(13:18):
don't tell you, because theyjust are good people. And I'm
going to give you an example.
Okay, because people have heardme share my story about Vice
President Biden, but he's donethis for families across this
country, for his entire life,where he reaches out to provide
a helping hand, but he doesn'tmake it public. They, you know,
I've learned this only intelling my story, because others
(13:42):
have come to me said "he didthat for me too." You know,
helpers, amazing people, andthat's why I'm so thankful when
I'm given opportunities, likethis podcast, to talk about it.
Because I just want peopleacross this country to know that
even though sometimes it feelslike we're going through the
worst of times, there's alwaysamazing people there who will
(14:04):
carry you --always.
JJ Janflone (14:08):
And Fred, you go into, I think, a lot of really
great detail in the book aboutsome helpers. But I'm wondering
if you could maybe just tell ourlisteners about just some of the
great people that you talkedabout?
Fred Guttenberg (14:19):
Well, listen, so Vice President Biden is
someone who reached out to me 10days after Jaime was killed or
so. And we spent about 40-45minutes on the phone. He was on
a train from Virginia to NewYork for an event for his son's
foundation. And I, it was liketalking to your uncle, or a good
friend that you hadn't spoken toin a while. He was, he just
(14:42):
called, he wanted to know aboutus, how we were doing, and he
wanted to know, lessons that helearned going. He wanted me to
know lessons he learned goingthrough grief, and how he got
through it out of that phoneconversation ended up being
another conversation with him,but this time was in person, a
few weeks later. And again,40-45 minutes of just talking to
(15:06):
somebody who just cared aboutwhat I was going through who
wanted to talk to me aboutgetting through grief. He spoke
to me a lot about mission andpurpose. He talked to me about
understanding that everyone goesthrough grief differently. And
nobody else had given me a headsup about that, like, I wasn't
prepared for that, until he saidit. And for having strategies to
(15:29):
make sure that my family and Ican go through this differently
-- but together. And nobody elsegave me that life lesson, and I
needed that. You know, but otherpeople who have stepped up, you
know, some from the worlds ofpolitics, that just may surprise
you, you know, Governor JohnKasich of Ohio, who brought me
(15:51):
to Ohio because he wanted to dosomething about gun safety. But
I ended up having some reallydeep conversations with him
about faith that have had alasting impact on me. or
Governor Murphy from New Jersey,who we had a mutual connection
in a cousin, who reached out tome shortly after Jaime was
killed. And even though I cannever vote for him, because I'm
(16:14):
not in New Jersey, on a regularbasis, he and his wife would
both follow up with me, text me,call me, just to know how the
family was doing. And hecommitted to me that in New
Jersey, this was going to be acore focus of his, and it has
been. There's people in theworld of entertainment. You
know, one of them wrote theforeword for the book, Bradley
Whitford or someone who hasbecome a dear friend of mine,
(16:36):
Alyssa Milano, who reached out.
And what you realize, is itdoesn't matter if you're from
entertainment, politics, media,or just next door. We're all
human beings with hearts andminds, and families, people we
love, people who love us who allhave the same concerns. And
we're all just people. And, andso I look at my community in
Parkland. The people who I knownow are not just the people who
(17:02):
I knew before February 14. It'sall those others who came into
my life afterwards, were therefor my family, and continue to
be. You know, I'm blown away,actually. Because you, you think
that people well, we always hearpeople say, "people are the
worst," "media, they're theworst," "politicians, they're
(17:24):
the worst." You know, it'salways "everybody's the worst,"
and my experience is actuallyjust the opposite. I'm amazed at
how amazing people have been.
And if we open up ourselves upto allow people to be amazing,
they will show you that theyare.
JJ Janflone (17:39):
Well and I think that's really what you're doing,
at the heart of it, with yourbook and now with your podcast,
as well, right? And so I wouldlove if you could, sort of, tell
our listeners a little bit aboutwhy you decided to write the
book, the process of writing itand why you chose I mean, I
think we've really gotten intoit here, but I really kind of
want to hammer this home forpeople you know, why the focus
(18:01):
on those that are helping?
Although you do, sort of, gointo a few like legislative and
policy things, which we'll talkabout later on to the podcast.
But you know, so essentially,why, why the book and podcast
now?
Fred Guttenburg (18:13):
Because I wrote, I decided a couple of
months after Jaime was killedthat I wanted to write my story.
You know, I was finding writingto be very therapeutic. I was
spending a lot of time onTwitter, I was journaling. And
writing was my way of gettingstuff off my chest. And so I
decided I needed to tell mystory. It did not, initially, it
(18:37):
wasn't done with the intentionof telling about helpers. That
was not the purpose of what Iset out to do. After I got done
writing my story, what becameclear is, my story involves a
lot of other people. And that,for my story to be possible,
with both what happened to mybrother, what happened to my
(18:58):
daughter, but even life beforethat, that nothing happens
without others. And especiallysince my brother and my
daughter, that is painfullyclear. And I just decided that
really maybe the lesson for mewas, how fortunate, in spite of
(19:21):
what has happened, that I havebeen to have had amazing people
in my life, who have carried me,who have helped me to get to a
place where I can be okay. Andso I decided to make that the
focus of the book. Because thetruth is, I'm not the only
person who goes through momentslike this. You have lots of
(19:41):
people who do. I mean, look atCOVID. 200, we've officiall
passed 200,000 dead, and peope were dying alone, and famili
s who are suffering. And so I wat my book to be there for ev
rybody who's going through soething like this, so that th
(20:02):
y know, if they really open thmselves up to their helpers an
, and embrace the idea that tht's part of being okay. G
tting to this place where, asy Rabbi said, "We don't move on,
we move forward." We do that witothers. And, and so I wan
people to know, as long as yostay connected, and you embrac
(20:26):
others, they will carry you othe days that you need them to
they will give you space on thdays when you need space, bu
they will always be there foyou, to help bring you to tha
place of being okay. I also wanpeople to know that they have
responsibility that wheneveromeone needs a helper, if
(20:50):
ou're in a position to be thatelper, that you should do it.
hat's why I decided to writehe book, because I wouldn't be
aving this conversation withou all today, if not for the
mazing helpers in my life,
Kelly Sampson (21:03):
I think that's a message for the time that we're
in, particularly because therecan I know at least speaking
personally, there's sometimesthis feeling of paralysis. Like
there's so many needs. There'sso many things that are
happening, how could I possiblyhave any sort of influence for
the better? And just hearing youtalk, it's a reminder that you
can start with the people aroundyou, in your circle. You know,
(21:24):
when you're strong, you can helpthem and vice-versa. And going
back to something you mentionedearlier about grief and purpose,
I was wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about Orange
Ribbons for Jaime.
Fred Guttenburg (21:37):
Yeah, so when Jaime was killed, orange was
Jaime's favorite color. And thenight that she was killed, all
of her, what I call her "dancesisters," got together at the
dance studio and started makingorange ribbons. And the next
day, came over to our housemarched up to Jaime's room
wearing orange ribbons, had avery emotional difficult time up
(21:59):
in her room that day. And theyposted photos of themselves
wearing their orange ribbonsthat, and the photos went viral,
through the dance world, throughBroadway. And by the time of
Jaime's funeral only two daysafter that, I had already become
aware that this orange ribbonwas going to mean something. It
just, it I, these kids started amovement. And in a matter of 48
(22:29):
hours, it was clear, this orangeribbon was important. What I
didn't know at the time, and Ididn't find out until weeks
later is that it's also thecolor of the gun safety
movement. And the idea that mydaughter's favorite color and
the color of the gun safetymovement, as she was a victim of
(22:49):
gun violence, were the same, wasa commonality that I couldn't
avoid highlighting. And the dayI found that out, I came home, I
said to my wife, we need tostart a foundation with the name
"orange ribbons" in it. And westarted Orange Ribbons for Jaime
(23:10):
and I set out. My first thoughtthat day was I just want this,
this movement has a color. Iwant the orange ribbon to be the
symbol. And we've been prettyeffective in that, the orange
ribbon. I mean, heck, when theHouse of Representatives passed
HR 8, you saw them all therewearing their orange ribbons.
This orange ribbon is becoming,has become the symbol of the gun
(23:34):
safety movement.
Fred Guttenberg (23:35):
But my foundation is really about
honoring my daughter, and abouthonoring the things that
mattered to her life, but alsoeducating on why her life was
cut short. And things thatmattered to Jaime in life, such
as anti-bullying programs orprograms for kids with special
needs, we make donations to.
Jaime was dog obsessed so wealso have a, you know, a
(23:58):
relationship with the HumaneSociety. But I think the thing
I'm most proud of is that whileJaime won't get to go to
college, Jaime is sending kidsto college, because we started a
college scholarship program, forkids of all abilities. And the,
it's called "For Kids of AllAbilities" because it's got
(24:18):
three components. One is, kidswho are going to go to school to
major in something where you'regoing to help other people. And
the reason why we chose thatrequirement is that's what Jaime
was going to do. Jaime wanted tobe a pediatric physical
therapist. These kids also needto have one year background in
dance. Why? Because Jaime did.
(24:39):
And they also need to have abackground in community service,
because Jaime did. The secondbucket of scholarships is for
kids who are going to major indance, but they need to have a
background in community service.
And the third bucket and this isthe why we call it the "for the
kids of all abilities" is forkids with special needs. There's
not always a scholarshipavailable for those kids. And
(25:00):
those kids do also go on, notalways to college, but some form
of secondary post-high schooleducation. And we want to make
sure that we're also ensuringthat those kids have the
financial resources that theyneed. So, you know, Jamie won't
get to go to school, I won't getto watch her graduate, but she's
going to help send other kids toschool. And I'm just proud that
(25:23):
we can be a part of that.
JJ Janflone (25:26):
And as always, I'll be linking, you know, to all
that information. So if peopleare listening to this and and
really want to find out moreabout Orange Ribbons for Jaime,
they can just click right on thedescriptor and find that out.
But I also just reallyrecommend, again, read the book.
Because even little things, likethe little boy she babysat, you
(25:47):
know, the impact of her life, Ithink, stretches far beyond the
really short time that the worldhad with her. And I think the
book really draws attention...
Fred Guttenberg (25:57):
Thank you
JJ Janflone (25:58):
to that. Well, I mean, thank you for raising a
awesome daughter.
Fred Guttenberg (26:01):
She was amazing.
JJ Janflone (26:03):
And I, you know, not not to quote you, at you.
But I end up doing this to allthe authors who come on, but at
one point in the book, you domention that, you know, "the
idea that I never fought likethis, when it was happening to
other people's kids is somethingI will never get over." I wanted
to unpack that statement a bit.
But I did want to make sure thatthat while we had you here, is
(26:24):
that I wanted to make sure thatlike you know, you identify
yourself as a helper as well,because you are. So I want to
make sure that you take thattime to self-identify too.
Fred Guttenberg (26:35):
You know, I, others have called me a helper,
and then I appreciate that. Andif I can be part of reducing gun
violence in this country, whichI intend to be, you know, that
then that is my role. I really,I can't ever think of myself as
just anything but a dad, though,reacting to what happened to his
(26:56):
kids. At the end of the day,that's how I see myself. But
yes, I will always be there as ahelper to others, in small ways,
or this fight against gunviolence. Because I do know, and
I struggle with it every second,that my voice wasn't in this
fight before it was my kid. AndI don't know, if I would have
(27:17):
made a difference if I had myvoice in there back then or not.
I don't know. But it wasn't, andso I'll never know. And I'll
never get over the guilt ofthat. And so I'm a father of two
kids reacting to what happenedto his kids and as long as this
is the reality of my life, Iain't going anywhere.
Kelly Sampson (27:37):
I think, you know, at least from my
perspective, one of the ways youhelp, is not just in the work
you're doing around on policy inparticular, but also just the
ways that you model what itmeans to be vulnerable and tell
your story, and also to somehowbe able to find hope in the
midst of a tragedy. And I thinkthat that is also helpful, just
(27:58):
to see that it's possible not tocompletely fold in on yourself.
And I know you talked about thata little bit with how other
people helped you see that too.
JJ Janflone (28:07):
One of the things I've got to say, Fred, that I
love. So I'm a big follower ofyours on Twitter, and I often...
Fred Guttenberg (28:14):
Sorry for all the bombardment.
JJ Janflone (28:16):
No, I mean, I like, I appreciate, sort of, the
honesty about your feelings onwhat can help, what can't help
and to not get distracted. Ithink that that's actually
really helpful in these times.
Also, it's strange that you'renever mean spirited, really,
which is very different for the2020 political sphere, so.
Fred Guttenberg (28:38):
I try not to be. Occasionally, but I would
say appropriately, I have to letpeople know in some stronger
terms, how they made me feel.
But you know, I do. I try every
JJ Janflone (28:48):
well and I just I wonder how many people are going
which way to be peaceful andappropriate. But once in a
while, you know, people need tobe told that, you know, "back o
to come to, either this podcastor this book, because they
learned of you unfortunately,not because of your activism
(29:11):
following Jaime's death rightaway, but because of your your
outburst at the State of theUnion. Which I have to say, when
I told my husband that I wasinterviewing you, he was so
excited, because of that moment.
But I think, again, it comesback to, I think what Kelly
pointed out is -- that was adad. That was that was a dad
pointing out that someone waswrong.
Fred Guttenberg (29:31):
Listen, there are moments and my emotions
certainly got the better of methat night, because the night
started with the currentoccupant talking about you know,
"illegals," the damage they doto the country, and all danger
(29:52):
and violence being caused bythem. And I was getting so
frustrated because I just wantedto remind him, in that moment,
my daughter was killed by ateenage American male. But I
didn't, I held it together. Andthen he got on his tangent later
on in the night about the SecondAmendment being under attack,
and I was furious. But whatpushed me over the edge was
(30:15):
watching that Republican side ofthe room jump to their feet and
cheer at this notion that theSecond Amendment is under
attack, but not at the notionthat our kids are. And I lost
it, you know. And I screamed outnine words, "what about victims
of gun violence, like mydaughter?" Which, unfortunately,
(30:38):
got me detained, handcuffed,transported, handcuffed to a
wall at a detention facility.
And the worst part of that nightwas, I didn't have my phone, it
was in Speaker Pelosi is office.
So I couldn't even call my wifeand my son. And what you need to
(31:00):
know is, that is a reallytriggering thing for my family,
because of us trying to reachJaime that day, and not being
able to. And they couldn't reachme, so my emotions caused me to
do something that put them backin a place like February 14, not
(31:24):
knowing what happened to me, notknowing where I was, not being
able to communicate with me. Andso I was really upset with
myself that night. But as I say,in the book, the next day, this
was a country of helpers for me.
And it actually started thatnight with Speaker Pelosi, who I
was, I spoke with, and Iapologized, because I was really
upset thinking I embarrassedher. And she basically said,
(31:46):
"What are you talking about? Youspoke for America tonight. Don't
you ever stop talking forAmerica." She made me feel
better. But then the next day,this country was talking about
gun safety. They were talkingabout the reality of gun
violence. And they wouldn't havebeen after that State of the
(32:06):
Union, if not for that outburst.
And so while I was very upsetwith myself for letting my
emotions get the best of me,this country, the next day, had
their hands underneath, me acountry of helpers, lifting me
and carrying me forward on a daythat I needed it and reminding
me why this is worth it.
Kelly Sampson (32:28):
One of the things that you embody, least for me,
is the concept of righteousanger. Where there's, I mean, to
your point earlier of how using,sometimes needing to tell people
in strong terms, I think thatyou show the concept that this
is not okay. And I thinksometimes we can get so used to
(32:50):
living in a really absurdcondition like this. The level
of violence that we live with,the level of gun violence that
happens in this country, istotally ridiculous. And it's, it
doesn't make sense and itdoesn't have to happen. And I
think the way you express thatemotion is needed, to be able to
(33:10):
remind people that hello, thisis not okay.
Unknown (33:12):
It's not, but it's worse than that. Because it's
more than not, okay. It'ssomething we can do something
about, and we're not. So, sothis, listen, we can't end gun
violence, right? There's alreadytoo many weapons out there. But
we can bend the curve. We canstart to reduce it. We can start
(33:33):
dealing with the reality thatthere are people out there who
want to kill. Evil exists, thatthere are people out there who
may harm themselves. And we candeal with that reality and start
doing something. So it's, it'sthe idea that we're not is
insane, because it ispredictable and in many cases,
(33:57):
it's preventable if we start todo something. And we will. But
what I want to let listenersknow, is, listen, we all have
moments in life, some biggerthan others, not always bad, you
know, but some bigger thanothers. Some tragic, some
amazing, and that ultimately,what matters more than the
(34:19):
moments in your life, is how youreact to them and how you
respond to them. Because if youlook through this country's
history, it is in these bigmoments in life, where our
country's heroes and leaders areborn. And I've gone across this
country, meeting a bunch ofthem, who do what they do,
because of really, sometimesawful, moments. And they step up
(34:44):
and they fight back. I also wantpeople to know that nobody,
nobody does that without thehelp of others. And so always,
always be open to embracing helpfrom others, the connectedness
that we have. have other people.
Because people will amaze youwith their decency and their
civility, and they will help tocarry you. But always, always,
(35:06):
always be that person forsomeone else also. Always be
there as a helper when you can.
JJ Janflone (35:15):
Well, and maybe Fred some advice on how can
people who want to be helpers,how can they best do that? How
can you be the best helper youabsolutely can be? How can they
get involved if they want tohelp around gun violence
prevention, or if they just wantto be better people out in the
world? You know, smallquestions.
Unknown (35:33):
No, but you know, it's an important question, because
because being a helper is notthe same for everybody. For some
people, it's in a small circle,and it's private, some people
are just not public figures. Butit starts with just being there,
for those who you know, and whoare around you. You know, in a
time of COVID, we all know afamily that's going through
(35:58):
something. Be there for thatfamily. But in a bigger picture,
if there's a cause or a concernthat you have, it doesn't have
to be gun violence, maybe you'vebeen touched by cancer, maybe
you've been touched by someother type of thing. Get to know
(36:19):
the groups that exist, andvolunteer, participate. You
know, don't, don't look around,waiting to see what other people
are going to do. If it mattersto you and it's important to
you, you know, get involved. Youmight actually find that it
(36:41):
could be the most meaningfulthing you've ever done.
JJ Janflone (36:43):
Well, thank you, again, so much, Fred, for coming
on. Thank you so much forcontinuing to share your story,
for bringing the story of sortof Jaime and Michael out into
the world because I get theimpression that neither Jaime or
Michael would have shared theirstory initially.
Fred Guttenberg (37:01):
Fair.
JJ Janflone (37:02):
Well, no, in terms of, just for in the book, you
talk about all these people whocame up to you and you found out
all of the great things thatJaime did during her life, all
the great things Michael did...
Fred Guttenberg (37:13):
But she was a private kid.
JJ Janflone (37:14):
Yeah, but they were, it seemed like they were
quieter.
Fred Guttenberg (37:17):
100%.
JJ Janflone (37:19):
So it's, it's good that we get to meet them. And
maybe that's maybe that's a goodnote to end on. Just to remember
to lift up the good people weknow we're out there, and to try
and be more like them.
Fred Guttenberg (37:29):
Well, I think that is a good note. Thank you.
JJ Janflone (37:37):
Interested in sharing with the podcast?
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(38:21):
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sides.
Hey everybody, this is the legal disclaimer where I
tell you that the views thoughtsand opinions shared on this
podcast blog solely to ourguests and hosts and not
necessarily Brady or Brady'saffiliates. Please note this
podcast contains discussions ofviolence that some people may
find disturbing. It's okay, wefind it disturbing too.
Hey everybody. Welcome toanother minisode of "Red, Blue
(00:42):
and Brady." Today, Kelly and Iare really just I think
overwhelmed and so excited tospeak with Fred Gutenberg, who
is the author of a brand newbook entitled "Find the Helpers:
What 9/11 and Parkland taught meabout recovery purpose and
hope." Now, if you don't know,Fred, you should. After the
(01:03):
murder of his 14 year olddaughter, Jaime at the Parkland
school shooting, Fred has reallylaunched himself into activism,
and been so, so proactive andfighting for gun violence
prevention. He also runs a greatnonprofit entitled, Orange
Ribbons for Jaime that'sdedicated to Jaime's life. We
(01:25):
have so much to talk about withhim from, from the book to Jaime
to what inspired him to actuallyto look for the helpers. But
even more than that, you know,overcoming grief through this
idea of the humanity of others.
So without further ado, I reallywant to want to get to it. And
Fred, can Kelly and I have youintroduce yourself?
Fred Guttenberg (01:46):
You know, listen, I guess people know who
I am. My name is FredGuttenberg. I'm a father of two
children. And one of them I getto hang out with every single
day. And the other one I visitin a cemetery. Unfortunately, my
children were victims of gunviolence at Marjory Stoneman
(02:07):
Douglas High School in Parklandin 2018. My daughter was killed
there that day, and my son heardthe bullets that we're doing it.
And so he lives with that aswell. And I have spent every day
of my life since then, fightingto do something about this, call
it a pandemic, I guess, thisemergency this issue of gun
(02:28):
violence. Four months prior tomy daughter's murder, I lost my
brother to cancer related to hisservice in 9/11. So, I now go
forward in life with the twotoughest people I've ever known
in my life standing on myshoulders determined to be part
of the solution on reducing gunviolence in America.
JJ Janflone (02:48):
Well, and I think I want to I want to start there
with that, because there are twopeople then that you mentioned
directly there, which are Jaimeand Michael, right, who
unfortunately are no longer withus. And so I want to start, can
you tell us about Jaime?
Fred Guttenberg (03:03):
Yeah. Jaime was my amazing, beautiful
14-year-old daughter. People whohave heard her story know, she
was a competitive dancer, butshe was also what I like to call
the life of the party because ofher energy. You were always
laughing because of Jaime oralways yelling because of Jaime,
(03:24):
because you were always reactingto Jaime. There was no other way
around it. Jaime was a kid whoyou know, as I say, in my book,
was born with the tough gene.
She knew right from wrong. Shealways stood on the side of
right. She always defended kidswho were being bullied, even
though she was not a big kidherself. She would literally
(03:45):
walk in the middle, if you sawsomething going on. And she
volunteered her time for kidswith all sorts of different
special needs. Because she justfelt like they deserved the same
opportunities every single daythat she had. And she was just,
listen, she was my girl. Thatwas my baby. I miss her every
(04:09):
second of every day.
Kelly Sampson (04:12):
Thank you so much for sharing that, I can't even
imagine what it's like to sharethose memories with us. And to
that end, we're going to askwhat happened on February 14
2018.
Fred Guttenburg (04:27):
So on February 14, which for anyone who
recognizes that date, that'sValentine's Day, a day of love.
And at the time in 2018, Jaimewas 14, Jessie was 16. And I
actually, with my wife, had areal special night planned. We
(04:48):
really wanted to introduce theromance of Valentine's Day to
our kids. And we sent our kidsout the door that morning to go
to school, to get them out ofthe house, so I could just
finish some of what I wanted todo to get ready for the night. I
rushed my kids out the door thatday because they were running
late, which was not uncommon, bythe way, as a parent of two
(05:09):
teens. You know, any parentunderstands kids run late, they
get distracted, my wife and Ineeded to get ready for the day.
What I remember about thatmorning was rushing my children
out the door, it wasn't holdingthem back for that one extra
second to say I love you. It was"get out the door, you need to
get to school," because schoolis where we send them to learn,
(05:31):
with the expectation thatthey're going to be safe. And
just after two o'clock that day,my son called to tell me that
there's a shooter at his school.
And I asked him where he was. Hetold me he was outside he was
running, but he couldn't findJaime. And my son watched his
sister like a hawk. He wanted toturn around and look for her.
(05:53):
And I had to convince him tokeep running, especially when he
was telling me he was hearingmore bullets. Never in a million
years did I imagine my daughterwould be one of those kids
getting shot and killed thatday, but she was. And thank God,
my son made it off the campus, Iwas able to pick him up. And I
guess my life has become apretty public spectacle since
(06:16):
then. Because I don't want to bea dad who has to watch other
moms and dads go through whatI'm going through, so I want to
be a dad who's part of solvingthis.
JJ Janflone (06:33):
I want to say one, thank you again, for sharing
Fred and continuing to shareJaime's story and what you and
your family went through. Andreading the book, I think was
really special for me, becauseit gives insight, sort of, into
your family. It gives I mean,the little stories about Jaime,
(06:54):
but also the stories about therelationship that she had with
Jesse. Yeah, I think we'rereally important because I
think, and we'll talk about thisa little bit later in the book,
obviously, you talk a lot aboutpeople who are helpers. And
Jesse seems almost like one ofthe first helpers, you know that
he definitely is a person whowants to help.
Fred Guttenberg (07:12):
Listen, that's who he is. Jesse idolized his
uncle, who was my brother whopassed away four months before
Jaime was killed. That was hisrole model in life. You know, my
brother has never been anythingbut a helper to others. He's
never really thought so muchabout himself. You know, my
brother always was there to takecare of and help others.
JJ Janflone (07:34):
And this is Michael. Correct?
Fred Guttenberg (07:35):
Correct. And that's who Jesse's role model
was, still is. And so, Jesse'smentality is always to put the
well being of others ahead ofhimself, which worries me
because that mentality is notuncommon amongst first
responders, which is why theyput themselves into danger that
I never would even think of. Andas a father, I worry about him
(07:59):
because of that mentality. Butit's also what makes him
amazingly special.
JJ Janflone (08:03):
Well, and I wonder if you could too, just for
people who haven't read the bookyet, I mean, obviously, they
should immediately go read it.
Fred Guttenberg (08:09):
Thank you
JJ Janflone (08:10):
But I'm wondering if you if you could talk about
Michael as well, a little bit,because I think and you talked
about this in the book, one ofthe things I think that really
activated you was also the lossof Michael with, from illnesses
related to him being your firstresponder on 9/11.
Fred Guttenberg (08:28):
Listen, my brother has been a first
responder for as long as I canremember. He started, gosh, when
were kids on bicycles, he wouldbe chasing ambulances and police
cars just to be around, to seewhat was going on, and then
eventually became an EMT as ateenager, and eventually, you
know, after college, went on tomedical school, and started
(08:48):
working as an emergency roomphysician. At the time of 9/11
he was the deputy medicaldirector of the New York Fire
Department and his office waslike two blocks away from the
World Trade Center. So I was ona flight that morning, to Key
West with one of my employees,and we land. My wife's calling
me, the First World Trade Centerhad already been hit, but the
(09:11):
second one had not yet been hit.
And we were watching from theairport in Key West. And after
the second one got hit, maybeeven before that, I started
getting on the phone with all myfamily, because we all know my
brother. And we also knew wherehe would be, you know, with his
office having just been veryclose to the World Trade Center.
And knowing my brother Michaelthe way I do, I knew while
(09:34):
everyone else was running away,he was going to be running in.
That's just the way he waswired. And we weren't wrong.
That day went by with us hearingnothing from Michael and
panicking over the fact that wewere hearing nothing from
Michael. By the afternoon, we'dlost hope. We started thinking
(09:57):
he was going to be gone. Until alady, who went by where the
first responders were and tookdown names and phone numbers,
she's, to me one of the greatheroes of my life, although I'll
never meet her, called myparents and just said, I've
spoken to your loved one, he isalive. And that was the first
sign of life we had of mybrother who, believe it or not,
(10:20):
while in the World Trade Centerthat day, was in there when it
collapsed, hid out in a room, abasement level room, for
whatever reasons, the room thathe and about 10 other people hid
out in did not collapse.
Although it was blocked bydebris, they had to find an
(10:40):
alternative way out no separatefrom the way they went in. And
rather than run and get the heckout of there, they spent the
next 16 days at Ground Zerotaking care of people. That
exposure and time eventually ledto him getting cancer related to
his service in 9/11, diagnosedin 2013, with pancreatic cancer.
(11:03):
Surgery, chemo radiation, and heseemed like he was going to be
cancer-free. Like, not onlywould my brother survive the
World Trade Center falling onhim, but he was now going to
survive a pancreatic cancerdiagnosis. Unfortunately, in
2016, the cancer came back thistime and his lungs, stomach, and
his liver, and it was too muchto battle. And in October of
(11:26):
2017, he passed away.
JJ Janflone (11:28):
It's I think, that's, that's one of the
hardest things I think, and Idon't know if, I mean, Fred, and
Kelly, you, Fred, you as asurvivor, yourself, and and
Kelly and I, because we're inthese spaces alive, right? We
hear so many stories of soamazingly good people, like
Michael, like Jaime, that are nolonger with us, because of
(11:50):
violence. And, um, you know, andso there's these like this
deeply sad, and to be quitehonest, like frustrating, and
like infuriating loss, and thenthere's also, you know, stories
throughout of how much good theydid during their lives. And
like, the good people who arelike, I'm just gonna go out and
write down names. I'm gonna gopass out water, I'm gonna do
(12:13):
something.
Fred Guttenberg (12:14):
And we dont ever hear about them, and we
don't know about them. I, thislady who did this, who, for all
I know, was exposed to all thetoxins, and also ended up with
9/11 related illnesses, which isentirely possible. This lady
never told my family or otherfamilies that she called, who
(12:35):
she was. It was in a day, youknow, before all the smartphones
and everything we have now. Soyou know, and she, because she
called my parents who, on a homephone, and my parents didn't
really have caller ID orwhatever at the time. We have
that we have no way of backtracing. But this lady did this
(12:56):
for many families-- and thislady is a hero. And there are so
many heroes and helpers, andamazing people in this country
that affect so many families inamazing ways that we don't think
about. Some are so private, somepeople are well known, but they
(13:18):
don't tell you, because theyjust are good people. And I'm
going to give you an example.
Okay, because people have heardme share my story about Vice
President Biden, but he's donethis for families across this
country, for his entire life,where he reaches out to provide
a helping hand, but he doesn'tmake it public. They, you know,
I've learned this only intelling my story, because others
(13:42):
have come to me said "he didthat for me too." You know,
helpers, amazing people, andthat's why I'm so thankful when
I'm given opportunities, likethis podcast, to talk about it.
Because I just want peopleacross this country to know that
even though sometimes it feelslike we're going through the
worst of times, there's alwaysamazing people there who will
(14:04):
carry you --always.
JJ Janflone (14:08):
And Fred, you go into, I think, a lot of really
great detail in the book aboutsome helpers. But I'm wondering
if you could maybe just tell ourlisteners about just some of the
great people that you talkedabout?
Fred Guttenberg (14:19):
Well, listen, so Vice President Biden is
someone who reached out to me 10days after Jaime was killed or
so. And we spent about 40-45minutes on the phone. He was on
a train from Virginia to NewYork for an event for his son's
foundation. And I, it was liketalking to your uncle, or a good
friend that you hadn't spoken toin a while. He was, he just
(14:42):
called, he wanted to know aboutus, how we were doing, and he
wanted to know, lessons that helearned going. He wanted me to
know lessons he learned goingthrough grief, and how he got
through it out of that phoneconversation ended up being
another conversation with him,but this time was in person, a
few weeks later. And again,40-45 minutes of just talking to
(15:06):
somebody who just cared aboutwhat I was going through who
wanted to talk to me aboutgetting through grief. He spoke
to me a lot about mission andpurpose. He talked to me about
understanding that everyone goesthrough grief differently. And
nobody else had given me a headsup about that, like, I wasn't
prepared for that, until he saidit. And for having strategies to
(15:29):
make sure that my family and Ican go through this differently
-- but together. And nobody elsegave me that life lesson, and I
needed that. You know, but otherpeople who have stepped up, you
know, some from the worlds ofpolitics, that just may surprise
you, you know, Governor JohnKasich of Ohio, who brought me
(15:51):
to Ohio because he wanted to dosomething about gun safety. But
I ended up having some reallydeep conversations with him
about faith that have had alasting impact on me. or
Governor Murphy from New Jersey,who we had a mutual connection
in a cousin, who reached out tome shortly after Jaime was
killed. And even though I cannever vote for him, because I'm
(16:14):
not in New Jersey, on a regularbasis, he and his wife would
both follow up with me, text me,call me, just to know how the
family was doing. And hecommitted to me that in New
Jersey, this was going to be acore focus of his, and it has
been. There's people in theworld of entertainment. You
know, one of them wrote theforeword for the book, Bradley
Whitford or someone who hasbecome a dear friend of mine,
(16:36):
Alyssa Milano, who reached out.
And what you realize, is itdoesn't matter if you're from
entertainment, politics, media,or just next door. We're all
human beings with hearts andminds, and families, people we
love, people who love us who allhave the same concerns. And
we're all just people. And, andso I look at my community in
Parkland. The people who I knownow are not just the people who
(17:02):
I knew before February 14. It'sall those others who came into
my life afterwards, were therefor my family, and continue to
be. You know, I'm blown away,actually. Because you, you think
that people well, we always hearpeople say, "people are the
worst," "media, they're theworst," "politicians, they're
(17:24):
the worst." You know, it'salways "everybody's the worst,"
and my experience is actuallyjust the opposite. I'm amazed at
how amazing people have been.
And if we open up ourselves upto allow people to be amazing,
they will show you that theyare.
JJ Janflone (17:39):
Well and I think that's really what you're doing,
at the heart of it, with yourbook and now with your podcast,
as well, right? And so I wouldlove if you could, sort of, tell
our listeners a little bit aboutwhy you decided to write the
book, the process of writing itand why you chose I mean, I
think we've really gotten intoit here, but I really kind of
want to hammer this home forpeople you know, why the focus
(18:01):
on those that are helping?
Although you do, sort of, gointo a few like legislative and
policy things, which we'll talkabout later on to the podcast.
But you know, so essentially,why, why the book and podcast
now?
Fred Guttenburg (18:13):
Because I wrote, I decided a couple of
months after Jaime was killedthat I wanted to write my story.
You know, I was finding writingto be very therapeutic. I was
spending a lot of time onTwitter, I was journaling. And
writing was my way of gettingstuff off my chest. And so I
decided I needed to tell mystory. It did not, initially, it
(18:37):
wasn't done with the intentionof telling about helpers. That
was not the purpose of what Iset out to do. After I got done
writing my story, what becameclear is, my story involves a
lot of other people. And that,for my story to be possible,
with both what happened to mybrother, what happened to my
(18:58):
daughter, but even life beforethat, that nothing happens
without others. And especiallysince my brother and my
daughter, that is painfullyclear. And I just decided that
really maybe the lesson for mewas, how fortunate, in spite of
(19:21):
what has happened, that I havebeen to have had amazing people
in my life, who have carried me,who have helped me to get to a
place where I can be okay. Andso I decided to make that the
focus of the book. Because thetruth is, I'm not the only
person who goes through momentslike this. You have lots of
(19:41):
people who do. I mean, look atCOVID. 200, we've officiall
passed 200,000 dead, and peope were dying alone, and famili
s who are suffering. And so I wat my book to be there for ev
rybody who's going through soething like this, so that th
(20:02):
y know, if they really open thmselves up to their helpers an
, and embrace the idea that tht's part of being okay. G
tting to this place where, asy Rabbi said, "We don't move on,
we move forward." We do that witothers. And, and so I wan
people to know, as long as yostay connected, and you embrac
(20:26):
others, they will carry you othe days that you need them to
they will give you space on thdays when you need space, bu
they will always be there foyou, to help bring you to tha
place of being okay. I also wanpeople to know that they have
responsibility that wheneveromeone needs a helper, if
(20:50):
ou're in a position to be thatelper, that you should do it.
hat's why I decided to writehe book, because I wouldn't be
aving this conversation withou all today, if not for the
mazing helpers in my life,
Kelly Sampson (21:03):
I think that's a message for the time that we're
in, particularly because therecan I know at least speaking
personally, there's sometimesthis feeling of paralysis. Like
there's so many needs. There'sso many things that are
happening, how could I possiblyhave any sort of influence for
the better? And just hearing youtalk, it's a reminder that you
can start with the people aroundyou, in your circle. You know,
(21:24):
when you're strong, you can helpthem and vice-versa. And going
back to something you mentionedearlier about grief and purpose,
I was wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about Orange
Ribbons for Jaime.
Fred Guttenburg (21:37):
Yeah, so when Jaime was killed, orange was
Jaime's favorite color. And thenight that she was killed, all
of her, what I call her "dancesisters," got together at the
dance studio and started makingorange ribbons. And the next
day, came over to our housemarched up to Jaime's room
wearing orange ribbons, had avery emotional difficult time up
(21:59):
in her room that day. And theyposted photos of themselves
wearing their orange ribbonsthat, and the photos went viral,
through the dance world, throughBroadway. And by the time of
Jaime's funeral only two daysafter that, I had already become
aware that this orange ribbonwas going to mean something. It
just, it I, these kids started amovement. And in a matter of 48
(22:29):
hours, it was clear, this orangeribbon was important. What I
didn't know at the time, and Ididn't find out until weeks
later is that it's also thecolor of the gun safety
movement. And the idea that mydaughter's favorite color and
the color of the gun safetymovement, as she was a victim of
(22:49):
gun violence, were the same, wasa commonality that I couldn't
avoid highlighting. And the dayI found that out, I came home, I
said to my wife, we need tostart a foundation with the name
"orange ribbons" in it. And westarted Orange Ribbons for Jaime
(23:10):
and I set out. My first thoughtthat day was I just want this,
this movement has a color. Iwant the orange ribbon to be the
symbol. And we've been prettyeffective in that, the orange
ribbon. I mean, heck, when theHouse of Representatives passed
HR 8, you saw them all therewearing their orange ribbons.
This orange ribbon is becoming,has become the symbol of the gun
(23:34):
safety movement.
Fred Guttenberg (23:35):
But my foundation is really about
honoring my daughter, and abouthonoring the things that
mattered to her life, but alsoeducating on why her life was
cut short. And things thatmattered to Jaime in life, such
as anti-bullying programs orprograms for kids with special
needs, we make donations to.
Jaime was dog obsessed so wealso have a, you know, a
(23:58):
relationship with the HumaneSociety. But I think the thing
I'm most proud of is that whileJaime won't get to go to
college, Jaime is sending kidsto college, because we started a
college scholarship program, forkids of all abilities. And the,
it's called "For Kids of AllAbilities" because it's got
(24:18):
three components. One is, kidswho are going to go to school to
major in something where you'regoing to help other people. And
the reason why we chose thatrequirement is that's what Jaime
was going to do. Jaime wanted tobe a pediatric physical
therapist. These kids also needto have one year background in
dance. Why? Because Jaime did.
(24:39):
And they also need to have abackground in community service,
because Jaime did. The secondbucket of scholarships is for
kids who are going to major indance, but they need to have a
background in community service.
And the third bucket and this isthe why we call it the "for the
kids of all abilities" is forkids with special needs. There's
not always a scholarshipavailable for those kids. And
(25:00):
those kids do also go on, notalways to college, but some form
of secondary post-high schooleducation. And we want to make
sure that we're also ensuringthat those kids have the
financial resources that theyneed. So, you know, Jamie won't
get to go to school, I won't getto watch her graduate, but she's
going to help send other kids toschool. And I'm just proud that
(25:23):
we can be a part of that.
JJ Janflone (25:26):
And as always, I'll be linking, you know, to all
that information. So if peopleare listening to this and and
really want to find out moreabout Orange Ribbons for Jaime,
they can just click right on thedescriptor and find that out.
But I also just reallyrecommend, again, read the book.
Because even little things, likethe little boy she babysat, you
(25:47):
know, the impact of her life, Ithink, stretches far beyond the
really short time that the worldhad with her. And I think the
book really draws attention...
Fred Guttenberg (25:57):
Thank you
JJ Janflone (25:58):
to that. Well, I mean, thank you for raising a
awesome daughter.
Fred Guttenberg (26:01):
She was amazing.
JJ Janflone (26:03):
And I, you know, not not to quote you, at you.
But I end up doing this to allthe authors who come on, but at
one point in the book, you domention that, you know, "the
idea that I never fought likethis, when it was happening to
other people's kids is somethingI will never get over." I wanted
to unpack that statement a bit.
But I did want to make sure thatthat while we had you here, is
(26:24):
that I wanted to make sure thatlike you know, you identify
yourself as a helper as well,because you are. So I want to
make sure that you take thattime to self-identify too.
Fred Guttenberg (26:35):
You know, I, others have called me a helper,
and then I appreciate that. Andif I can be part of reducing gun
violence in this country, whichI intend to be, you know, that
then that is my role. I really,I can't ever think of myself as
just anything but a dad, though,reacting to what happened to his
(26:56):
kids. At the end of the day,that's how I see myself. But
yes, I will always be there as ahelper to others, in small ways,
or this fight against gunviolence. Because I do know, and
I struggle with it every second,that my voice wasn't in this
fight before it was my kid. AndI don't know, if I would have
(27:17):
made a difference if I had myvoice in there back then or not.
I don't know. But it wasn't, andso I'll never know. And I'll
never get over the guilt ofthat. And so I'm a father of two
kids reacting to what happenedto his kids and as long as this
is the reality of my life, Iain't going anywhere.
Kelly Sampson (27:37):
I think, you know, at least from my
perspective, one of the ways youhelp, is not just in the work
you're doing around on policy inparticular, but also just the
ways that you model what itmeans to be vulnerable and tell
your story, and also to somehowbe able to find hope in the
midst of a tragedy. And I thinkthat that is also helpful, just
(27:58):
to see that it's possible not tocompletely fold in on yourself.
And I know you talked about thata little bit with how other
people helped you see that too.
JJ Janflone (28:07):
One of the things I've got to say, Fred, that I
love. So I'm a big follower ofyours on Twitter, and I often...
Fred Guttenberg (28:14):
Sorry for all the bombardment.
JJ Janflone (28:16):
No, I mean, I like, I appreciate, sort of, the
honesty about your feelings onwhat can help, what can't help
and to not get distracted. Ithink that that's actually
really helpful in these times.
Also, it's strange that you'renever mean spirited, really,
which is very different for the2020 political sphere, so.
Fred Guttenberg (28:38):
I try not to be. Occasionally, but I would
say appropriately, I have to letpeople know in some stronger
terms, how they made me feel.
But you know, I do. I try every
JJ Janflone (28:48):
well and I just I wonder how many people are going
which way to be peaceful andappropriate. But once in a
while, you know, people need tobe told that, you know, "back o
to come to, either this podcastor this book, because they
learned of you unfortunately,not because of your activism
(29:11):
following Jaime's death rightaway, but because of your your
outburst at the State of theUnion. Which I have to say, when
I told my husband that I wasinterviewing you, he was so
excited, because of that moment.
But I think, again, it comesback to, I think what Kelly
pointed out is -- that was adad. That was that was a dad
pointing out that someone waswrong.
Fred Guttenberg (29:31):
Listen, there are moments and my emotions
certainly got the better of methat night, because the night
started with the currentoccupant talking about you know,
"illegals," the damage they doto the country, and all danger
(29:52):
and violence being caused bythem. And I was getting so
frustrated because I just wantedto remind him, in that moment,
my daughter was killed by ateenage American male. But I
didn't, I held it together. Andthen he got on his tangent later
on in the night about the SecondAmendment being under attack,
and I was furious. But whatpushed me over the edge was
(30:15):
watching that Republican side ofthe room jump to their feet and
cheer at this notion that theSecond Amendment is under
attack, but not at the notionthat our kids are. And I lost
it, you know. And I screamed outnine words, "what about victims
of gun violence, like mydaughter?" Which, unfortunately,
(30:38):
got me detained, handcuffed,transported, handcuffed to a
wall at a detention facility.
And the worst part of that nightwas, I didn't have my phone, it
was in Speaker Pelosi is office.
So I couldn't even call my wifeand my son. And what you need to
(31:00):
know is, that is a reallytriggering thing for my family,
because of us trying to reachJaime that day, and not being
able to. And they couldn't reachme, so my emotions caused me to
do something that put them backin a place like February 14, not
(31:24):
knowing what happened to me, notknowing where I was, not being
able to communicate with me. Andso I was really upset with
myself that night. But as I say,in the book, the next day, this
was a country of helpers for me.
And it actually started thatnight with Speaker Pelosi, who I
was, I spoke with, and Iapologized, because I was really
upset thinking I embarrassedher. And she basically said,
(31:46):
"What are you talking about? Youspoke for America tonight. Don't
you ever stop talking forAmerica." She made me feel
better. But then the next day,this country was talking about
gun safety. They were talkingabout the reality of gun
violence. And they wouldn't havebeen after that State of the
(32:06):
Union, if not for that outburst.
And so while I was very upsetwith myself for letting my
emotions get the best of me,this country, the next day, had
their hands underneath, me acountry of helpers, lifting me
and carrying me forward on a daythat I needed it and reminding
me why this is worth it.
Kelly Sampson (32:28):
One of the things that you embody, least for me,
is the concept of righteousanger. Where there's, I mean, to
your point earlier of how using,sometimes needing to tell people
in strong terms, I think thatyou show the concept that this
is not okay. And I thinksometimes we can get so used to
(32:50):
living in a really absurdcondition like this. The level
of violence that we live with,the level of gun violence that
happens in this country, istotally ridiculous. And it's, it
doesn't make sense and itdoesn't have to happen. And I
think the way you express thatemotion is needed, to be able to
(33:10):
remind people that hello, thisis not okay.
Unknown (33:12):
It's not, but it's worse than that. Because it's
more than not, okay. It'ssomething we can do something
about, and we're not. So, sothis, listen, we can't end gun
violence, right? There's alreadytoo many weapons out there. But
we can bend the curve. We canstart to reduce it. We can start
(33:33):
dealing with the reality thatthere are people out there who
want to kill. Evil exists, thatthere are people out there who
may harm themselves. And we candeal with that reality and start
doing something. So it's, it'sthe idea that we're not is
insane, because it ispredictable and in many cases,
(33:57):
it's preventable if we start todo something. And we will. But
what I want to let listenersknow, is, listen, we all have
moments in life, some biggerthan others, not always bad, you
know, but some bigger thanothers. Some tragic, some
amazing, and that ultimately,what matters more than the
(34:19):
moments in your life, is how youreact to them and how you
respond to them. Because if youlook through this country's
history, it is in these bigmoments in life, where our
country's heroes and leaders areborn. And I've gone across this
country, meeting a bunch ofthem, who do what they do,
because of really, sometimesawful, moments. And they step up
(34:44):
and they fight back. I also wantpeople to know that nobody,
nobody does that without thehelp of others. And so always,
always be open to embracing helpfrom others, the connectedness
that we have. have other people.
Because people will amaze youwith their decency and their
civility, and they will help tocarry you. But always, always,
(35:06):
always be that person forsomeone else also. Always be
there as a helper when you can.
JJ Janflone (35:15):
Well, and maybe Fred some advice on how can
people who want to be helpers,how can they best do that? How
can you be the best helper youabsolutely can be? How can they
get involved if they want tohelp around gun violence
prevention, or if they just wantto be better people out in the
world? You know, smallquestions.
Unknown (35:33):
No, but you know, it's an important question, because
because being a helper is notthe same for everybody. For some
people, it's in a small circle,and it's private, some people
are just not public figures. Butit starts with just being there,
for those who you know, and whoare around you. You know, in a
time of COVID, we all know afamily that's going through
(35:58):
something. Be there for thatfamily. But in a bigger picture,
if there's a cause or a concernthat you have, it doesn't have
to be gun violence, maybe you'vebeen touched by cancer, maybe
you've been touched by someother type of thing. Get to know
(36:19):
the groups that exist, andvolunteer, participate. You
know, don't, don't look around,waiting to see what other people
are going to do. If it mattersto you and it's important to
you, you know, get involved. Youmight actually find that it
(36:41):
could be the most meaningfulthing you've ever done.
JJ Janflone (36:43):
Well, thank you, again, so much, Fred, for coming
on. Thank you so much forcontinuing to share your story,
for bringing the story of sortof Jaime and Michael out into
the world because I get theimpression that neither Jaime or
Michael would have shared theirstory initially.
Fred Guttenberg (37:01):
Fair.
JJ Janflone (37:02):
Well, no, in terms of, just for in the book, you
talk about all these people whocame up to you and you found out
all of the great things thatJaime did during her life, all
the great things Michael did...
Fred Guttenberg (37:13):
But she was a private kid.
JJ Janflone (37:14):
Yeah, but they were, it seemed like they were
quieter.
Fred Guttenberg (37:17):
100%.
JJ Janflone (37:19):
So it's, it's good that we get to meet them. And
maybe that's maybe that's a goodnote to end on. Just to remember
to lift up the good people weknow we're out there, and to try
and be more like them.
Fred Guttenberg (37:29):
Well, I think that is a good note. Thank you.
JJ Janflone (37:37):
Interested in sharing with the podcast?
Listeners can get in touch withus here at Red, Blue and Brady
via phone or text message.
Simply call our text at480-744-3452 with your thoughts,
questions, concerns, ideas,whatever!
And you know what else you canshare? Chocolate. Come join me
in eating your 2020 feelings byshopping Hu's Kitchen Chocolate,
which is free of dairy, gluten,refined sugar, palm oil and cane
(38:00):
sugar. My personal favorite arethe dark gems. It's a bag
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Thanks for listening. As always,Brady's life saving work and
Congress, the courts andcommunities across the country
(38:21):
is made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Brady orhow to get involved in the fight
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@Bradybuzz. Be brave andremember -- take action, not
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