Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Art offers a
transformative experience where
we enter it in one place andexit in a completely different
place, and that's something thatwe just can't replicate easily
in any other discipline.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm Dan Baum and
you're listening to Redefine you
.
We hear a lot today about STEMscience, technology, engineering
and math and occasionally wemight hear the term STEAM, which
includes the arts.
Today, we have an expert onthat integration Laura Pasquini,
(00:45):
program Navigator for VisualArts and Humanities at AACC.
Hi, laura, it's good to speakwith you.
Hi, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Let's just start
really basic.
What is arts integration?
Yeah, so arts integration is aneducational approach that
integrates art into non-artcurriculum or non-art subjects,
and what it does is it uses anart form to both enhance and
engage that subject and thelearners.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
What drew you to this
field?
Tell us a little bit about yourbackground.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well, art has always
been a large part of my life.
My grandmother was a painterand my father was an artisan.
He was an iron worker, and soit was always art and design was
always prevalent in my life.
I think that arts integrationbecame more prevalent as I
(01:40):
worked in the museum, dc publicschools and learned that art in
the museum could extend beyondthe walls into the curriculum in
K through 12.
So when we would host ateacher's workshop, for example,
we'd have educators come fromall subjects, not just visual
art but math, for example, andwe'd have to look at how artists
(02:03):
use geometry and concepts inmathematics.
In some of these works of artand design curriculum
connections around it.
So that's when my world reallyopened up to the possibilities
of art as a pedagogical tool toengage learners and foster
creativity.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So it sounds like you
really applied that museum
learning in the K-12 environment.
What exactly is a programnavigator here?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, actually this
role is a contracted position
under the Perkins Foundation.
It was a vision project byWilfredo Valladares Lara, who
had headed the department.
He was the chair for threeyears and he really saw this as
a role that could bridge thevisual arts with the community.
So traditionally this rolecoaches students through their
(02:52):
pathway in college, helps themunderstand what careers are
possible in the creativeindustry, but it also is a role
that creates relationships bothinternally and externally.
So he asked me in the first sixmonths that I was here to
really focus on the relationshipbuilding, and gave me a lot of
freedom in developing that, andso in that process I not only
(03:15):
was able to create relationshipswith our students and their
families, but also with keystakeholders and educators in
the community.
That could help them beforethey even set foot in the
community.
That could help them beforethey even set foot in the
college.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Let's talk a little
bit about students then.
So I'm just curious howintegrating or applying arts can
help a student transform.
How might it help them thriveor accomplish more?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So this is where I
feel that the word art and
creativity sometimes get looselycombined and they are a little
distinctly different to me.
I think that art, what it doesis it creates a platform where
learners can engage in criticalthinking skills in a unique way
that other subjects don't reallyprovide that platform.
(03:59):
In the same way, you can notonly explore problem solving and
critical thinking, but alsodevelop empathy and multiple
perspectives towards something.
Art is the application ofcreative skill and imagination
and usually in visual arts ittends to be in mediums such as
(04:20):
paint, clay.
Now we're getting into thedigital realm, so we see that,
being used as a medium,creativity is something
different.
I think creativity is somethingthat's innate to all human
beings and it crosses subjectmatter.
It's sort of.
I think it's about originality.
(04:42):
It's about having an originalidea, and that's a little more
complex than people think I meana lot of times.
I think it involves being veryopen to your environment and to
sensory experiences andinformation and then being able
to be open to synthesizing thoseideas in an original way that
(05:02):
hasn't been done before.
I think my concern, at least inour society, is that a lot of
times I see young people andI've worked with a lot of young
people in my career around theage 10 or 11 years old.
You'll hear them say I'm not anartist, I can't draw a stick
figure.
We really start to hear thiswith middle school boys around
age 12 or 13.
(05:23):
I'm not an artist, I can't evendraw a stick figure.
And what happens in thatprocess is they start to shut
down the doors to creativity, totheir own relationship, to
their own creativity.
They don't see themselves asartists and therefore they're
not creative, and we lose theopportunity to nurture
(05:43):
creativity in young minds and welose the conversation on how
you do that and apply it toother fields.
So in my neighborhood I live ina big engineering neighborhood
and if somebody says they'reinto the arts, it's almost like
a dirty word, like oh, oh, my.
You know, and I think that Itry to encourage friends of mine
(06:07):
, parents and peers to nurturethat curiosity and to not be
afraid of it.
It's something that we need toembrace and encourage in young
people and use as a tool,because I think it's innate to
all human experience, and to robourselves of that, we really
rob society of that in a waywhen we do that.
There's a podcast I just love bySir Ken Robinson about.
(06:29):
It's called Our School'sKilling Creativity.
It's, I think, the most watchedTED talk.
If you haven't watched it, Ihighly recommend it.
But what he's really talkingabout is why we are so focused
on standardized testing insteadof looking at concepts like the
Reggio Emilia concept thatreally introduced creativity as
(06:50):
a core part of education and,alongside of that,
interdisciplinary learning, forexample.
So I think that with the onsetof AI, what we're seeing with
ChatGPT in its early stages thatcreativity, interdisciplinary
learning, arts integration allof these things in pedagogical
practice are going to come backbecause they're going to be
(07:12):
necessary.
That's sort of the distinctionfor me.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I love that
distinction but, as you said,
not everyone is as excited, ormaybe they feel intimidated by
either art or creativity.
So how do you get someone moreexcited about that, so that they
can see the value in fieldslike math or science or
engineering?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Wow, that's a great
question.
With my background in educationand art, some of the best
educators have always taught meto just model.
I was welcoming a group ofstudents alongside Steve Barry
he's an instructional specialisthere and a coach and we were
working with some high schoolstudents recently and just
(07:54):
giving them a tour of the campus.
They teamed us up together.
Now his background is businessand entrepreneurship and you
know we did this thing on a whim.
Where there's a sculpture oncampus it was actually the first
sculpture to ever be put oncampus, I believe called
Frontier, and it's that largemetal triangular sculpture.
And I was like Steve, can I, canwe just do something
(08:16):
collaboratively here with thesestudents, because we were losing
them.
They were looking at the sky inevery which way Right, and I,
you know, modeled this methodthat I learned at the National
Gallery of Art when I wascontract educating with them,
and they taught us this methodcalled visual thinking
strategies and it's a way ofapproaching a work of art
(08:38):
slowing down, observing anddiscussing it as a group.
Now it sounds really simple,but it's a bit complex because
you really have to facilitate aconversation over the course of
a period of time while you'relooking at this work of art.
We walked around the piece, wedescribed what we were thinking
and he saw how much students allof a sudden got activated by
(09:02):
grounding their learning in artand by giving them a little bit
of support, prompting the rightquestions.
All of a sudden you had theseteenagers from you know all
backgrounds, participating in adialogue about this sculpture.
He was so inspired that then hedid that in his classroom and I
brought with me one of theresponses of his students.
(09:24):
If I could read a couple linesyeah, please, because you're
jumping right in.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
My next question was
going to be do you have specific
stories of, like students andyou know, transforming and what
happened, or favorite moments?
So, yeah, please share with us.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Sure.
So he went back to theclassroom and he repeated what
we did, which is called theactual thinking strategy, is
called See, think Wonder, andthere is a training, an online
training for educators that theNational Gallery offers.
And this is from a non-artstudent, you know, just
prompting them with specificquestions.
It is my interpretation.
(09:58):
The artist is representingstrength and perseverance.
In the sculpture, the materialis made out of a strong metal
that, although shows brownorange rust, I believe that it's
the artist's way of adapting,to change.
Another aspect of strength isthe six triangles represented
within the sculpture.
The triangle is believed to bethe strongest shape and clearly
(10:19):
the artists have used majoritytriangles.
The other shape is a circle andthose represent community and
unity.
I believe the artists combinethese shapes into the sculpture,
strategically, place them infront of the careers building to
represent strength, adaptationand community.
Wow, I mean.
And it goes on I have pages ofthis.
(10:40):
Yeah, some other examples, Ithink the work I did with
Professor Caratini, who isreally spearheading arts
integration at the higherlearning level Traditionally
it's used in K through 12, butwe are seeing universities use
it around Maryland andnationwide.
But I've worked with herprimarily and the project she
(11:01):
did on home and belonging.
We conceived a triptychtogether.
Project she did on home andbelonging.
We conceived a triptychtogether and there were many
moments where students connectedto this sense of home and
belonging through this triptych,which involved a print, a
writing exercise and then aphoto transfer of what home and
belonging meant to them.
I think through art they wereable to explore the concept of
(11:26):
home and belonging and howsocial, personal and a variety
of other factors play a role inthat through their anthropology
course.
So that was really inspiringand we did it throughout the
year with a number of differentstudents.
There are examples online ifpeople want to look it up and
read about the students'response to it.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So you have an
example of business anthropology
Overall.
How have faculty received theidea, or perhaps how do you
think it's impacting faculty andhow they see creativity and
arts in their respective classesor fields?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've had an
incredible experience with the
faculty here at Anne ArundelCommunity College doing this
work.
Right now I'm working withmultilingual learners in college
program.
We did a book arts project thatI'm very excited to share that
combines language and art withthe students.
I've had requests from directorof Homeland Security, Professor
(12:27):
Son Carter, on doing interviewswith FBI forensic artists.
We've had health sciences reachout to us recently Vita Chalk
asking if we'd like tocollaborate this year on a
project, I think, and also, youknow, Matthew Bem from STEAM
asked me to design a STEAMproject for students.
Last year we had 200 highschoolers participate in that
(12:50):
and we did this origami worktogether.
So there's just endlesspossibilities and I have this
sort of personal motto and it'sby invitation, you know, if I'm
invited to something, if facultywant to invite me to
collaborate, I'm fully willingto do that and I've gotten quite
a few collaborations andinvitations lately and I think
(13:12):
Amy and I are very excited aboutwhere this can go in terms of a
tool and we're seeing it happen, like I said, at other
universities, For example, UMBC,their Center for Design and
Visual Culture.
They lead a whole outreachprogram on arts integration in
the local schools, MICA Towsonand also, more recently, Johns
(13:35):
Hopkins, received quite a largesum of money to support this
effort, and it's led by, Ibelieve, Daniel Weiss, who used
to head the Metropolitan Museumof Art.
Led by, I believe, Daniel Weiss, who used to head the
Metropolitan Museum of Art.
So, specifically, what I meanis they're looking into
elevating the arts across thecurriculum at places like that.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So, yeah, it's a lot
of potential Sounds, exciting,
sounds like it's being wellreceived in various places.
How about, just like withstudents?
How do you help faculty whomaybe aren't so comfortable in
either the integration or witharts and creativity?
How do you help them if theydon't necessarily see the
immediate value?
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So usually when I
design a workshop or I partner
with a faculty member to designit, I have this idea in my head
a formula for success.
I don't set up an art, becauseart can be very intimidating,
right?
I try not to design anexperience that is going to
close doors.
It's always in my mind thatwhen I design an experience it's
(14:38):
collaborative and it opens thedoors to possibilities and to
also allow for success.
And I guess, to answer thatquestion, how do we get people
on board?
I haven't really struggled withthat so far.
I mean, I think that people arecurious about their own
creativity and how to relate toit more, how to foster it more.
(14:59):
We've worked with the chairsfrom Anne Arundel County, the
art chairs from Anne ArundelCounty very successfully in
professional development hereand I'm seeing a lot of
potential for that more in fact.
And now the social sciencechairs of Anne Arundel County
would like to come here and haverequested an arts integration
workshop.
In fact they were a littleskeptical about it and we
(15:21):
invited them to come observe oneof our sessions, our workshops,
and after that there was justsuch positive feedback and I
think they saw and experiencedthe value.
It's really that thing ofexperiential learning.
You have to do it to understandwhy it's valuable.
So those professionaldevelopment opportunities for
the people in leadershippositions, for the people in
(15:44):
educational positions, are veryimportant for them to experience
it.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
What would be your
dream collaboration?
Do you have one?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Wow, well, yeah,
actually Professor Caratini and
I are working on it right now.
We've invited Susan Maximanfrom the Art and Mind Lab at
Johns Hopkins University to be aguest speaker for next year, so
we are working on thatcollaboration.
She is leading some phenomenalwork on the healing power of the
arts in neuroscience andlooking into some really
(16:15):
revolutionary research like howneural networks in the brain are
healed through the arts, and soI think that that definitely is
one of my top bucket list itemsin terms of arts integration
collaboration.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's really
interesting to hear that a
college like Johns Hopkinsintegrating in this way.
What do you think about otherinstitutions?
You've named a number that haveembraced this, but what do you
think is holding others back?
Why isn't there more STEAM whenwe've heard for so long about
STEM?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
That's such a good
question because I ask myself
that all the time.
In fact, the STEAM project thatwe did with the college was
fantastic.
I mean, we used an artist namedSuk-Young Park who created
these modular forms out oforigami and had discussions all
about how artists and engineersI think at MIT worked together
(17:09):
to de-engineer nature's folds tounderstand them better and
applied them to satellites inspace.
So and there's a documentarycalled Between the Folds that I
recommend for that.
But yeah, I think art is soprevalent in STEAM and I
oftentimes feel that we're notgetting a full rounded education
(17:31):
for these students when weleave the arts out.
To answer that question, here'smy observation Artists are so
dedicated to the act of art andcreating that oftentimes there's
not a lot of advocacy.
I see so much advocacy in othersubjects, but artists, by
nature, just they're not intomarketing, they're not your
(17:52):
front front person, you knowunless they are in marketing or
unless they are in marketingright.
Actually, yes, we have a lot ofartists in marketing here, but
they're not typically the peoplethat are going to go out there
and advocate for these things.
They're going to be the peoplebehind the scenes creating.
So I think advocacy, to answeryour question I just think it's
(18:12):
advocacy for the most partbecause to me, there's no doubt
that art plays a role in STEAMand that it's fundamental.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It's just stunning to
me, particularly as we see
these technologies you mentioned, like chat, gpt, type of large
learning language models andsuch.
It's just stunning to me,particularly as we see these
technologies you mentioned, likechat, gpt, type of you know,
large learning language modelsand such, that we have to be
more creative and lean into ourhuman side, and yet that seems
to be intimidating for somepeople.
What do you think is theperfect outcome for students
(18:43):
when they participate in this?
What's the biggest takeaway forthem?
If you could sum up that, therewould be a major takeaway for
them.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You know, the first
word that came to mind when you
were speaking was transformation.
I think that that's what theseexperiences offer, above and
beyond everything else, is artoffers a transformative
experience where we enter it inone place and exit in a
completely different place, and,um, that's something that we
just can't replicate easily inany other discipline.
(19:15):
I want them, I want thelearning to become long lasting.
I don't want it to just besomething that is checked off.
You know, I completed thatmodule.
I'd like it to transform themin some way.
I'd like empathy to be a partof that transformation and a
relationship to their ownconfidence in their creativity.
(19:37):
So I would say confidence is abig thing that I'd like them to
walk away with, because, youknow, I'd like them to think
about in the future how can Iapproach a problem and solve it
creatively now with this skillset, and to believe that they
could, not to stay away from it.
I think you just hit the nail onthe head with saying that
human-centered education,human-centered design we have to
(20:00):
come back to all of this andget away from standardized
testing, rote learning this isnot going to help 21st century
learners.
Rote learning this is not goingto help 21st century learners,
they really have to be preparedto be a partner with AI, be a
conductor of AI.
I read a quote recently thatsaid you know, in the future we
are either going to be aconductor or composer of AI, or
(20:21):
a consumer.
So the question becomes thenhow do we create conductors,
composers?
And I think to do that theyhave to have a certain skill set
.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And even wise
consumers.
It's kind of stunning to me.
My undergraduate I went to acollege that was being forward
thinking and removed testing andother things, because they said
this is going to be the learnerwe need in the future.
They were predicting that andyet we have become even more
standardized in our testing inso many different ways.
So it's kind of stunning to me.
You mentioned thetransformation You're speaking
(20:53):
our language with.
This is redefining you, butalong with that, empathy,
competence, the other things youmentioned how do you empower
students so they can take theseskills with them?
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I had someone at the
Corcoran Gallery of Art when I
was, you know, just starting off, taught me that a great
educator is a facilitator oflearning.
You're at your best when youcan almost remove yourself from
being that.
Can that that lead in theclassroom, but you become a part
of a learning community?
So how I would prepare them, Iis to create curriculum that
(21:31):
allows them to discover theirown strengths and, in doing so,
use creativity as a foundationfor that.
So, for example, the projectthat we're working on right now
has a lot to do with humanmigration stories.
And how do I always connectstudents to the personal part of
(21:52):
that?
I think that's the bottom lineis I ask myself, how do I create
personal meaning making?
Because if you're introducing asubject, if you're introducing
a work of art, it's really notgoing to resonate unless you can
find a personal connection tostudents.
So I think I don't know if thatanswers your question, but I
always approach with a singlework of art that can be a
(22:13):
connector to universalexperience, a universal human
experience, and migration is oneof those.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, if that student
quote that you provide is any
example, I mean, they've reallyopened up their way of seeing
things and their ability tocritique.
I've also heard you speak andpresent, particularly for
parents.
These are the types of careersthat this can lead to.
You mentioned the engineeringcommunity that you're in.
So when you do encounterindividuals who don't see
(22:43):
immediate value, they're noteducators, they're not the
student.
What's the practical side thatyou are sharing with them?
How do you help them understandthe benefits here?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
So a lot of times my job as aprogram navigator involves
scouring, you know, andresearching on creative careers.
So and I oftentimes share withthem titles to creative careers
are not as straightforward as,let's say, nursing right, and to
all my friends in nursing andengineering at the college
(23:14):
you're just phenomenal I justwant to say that I enjoy working
with you.
But it's much easier to say Iwant to be a nurse and then look
online and apply for a job innursing right.
In the creative industry, it'smuch more complex.
Now I'll often talk about anexample.
In the government industry,it's much more complex.
Now I'll often talk about anexample.
In the government, they don'tjust call a graphic designer a
(23:37):
graphic designer, they call thema visual information specialist
, right?
So it's part of my job to buildawareness around these job
titles, what they mean and whatthe creative economy does to
transform landscapes.
I mean economic landscapes,social landscapes.
I'll give you a great examplethe Walt Disney Concert Hall
(23:57):
designed by Frank Gehry indowntown LA Before he created
that building and please look itup if you haven't seen it that
was pretty much what they calledthe dead zone in downtown LA.
That was pretty much what theycalled the dead zone in downtown
LA Once they constructed thatspace.
Over the course of 10 years,businesses came and built up
(24:17):
around it, Restaurants came,Industry came around it and now
it's a thriving economic hub inthe heart of LA because such a
beautiful space was able totransform the environment.
So if you really look at thestatistics and I like to share
some of these with people isthat in Maryland, if you look at
the statistics around our artcommunities that are funded by
(24:40):
the Maryland State Arts Council,the economies grow up when
artists come into a communityand transform it, and we saw
that with Greenwich Village backin the day.
Right, that's just an examplethat many people might think of.
But look at locally, atHyattsville, Look at Berlin,
Maryland these are places thatactually get support through the
(25:01):
Maryland State Arts Council toinvest in the arts in a
community, because thattransforms the community and the
economy into a more thrivingplace where people want to come.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Before we started we
were talking about how Annapolis
now has First Sunday ArtsSunday block off a certain
section of West Street and allthese artisans come and people
can come and enjoy that.
So we're already seeing how itcan be a vibrant part of the
community.
This has been such a pleasure,laura.
(25:32):
I'm just curious what didn't wecover that you hoped?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
we might address.
So I think the only thing thatwe haven't covered is that
Professor Caratini and I havereceived some support to launch
an arts integration pilot at thecollege next year.
It's going to involve a seriesof workshops, professional
development opportunities, fieldtrips and guest speakers, so
we're really excited to sharethat, both internally with the
(25:56):
college and externally with AnneArundel County Public Schools
especially.
So just look out for thoseopportunities and partner with
us.
We'd like to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
That sounds great.
Well, thank you for all thatyou're doing for students.
Everything you're saying is sonear and dear to my heart.
My son's a budding filmmaker.
My daughter is an anthropologymajor in her senior year at
college, so the I'm sure shewould love the arts integration
as part of that.
Um, but thank you for helpingour students stretch and apply
their creativity and practice,and thank you so much for having
me our students stretch andapply their creativity and
practice.
(26:33):
And thank you so much for havingme.
Laura made the distinctionbetween the study of art
compared to the pursuit andexpression of creativity, a
distinction helpful for thosewho might question the value of
certain courses, programs anddisciplines.
Ironically, the skills gainedthrough arts integration are
exactly what employers seektoday Independent and critical
thinking, creativity andinnovation, communication and
(26:54):
teamwork.
As Laura noted, along withvaluable skills, there are many
careers rooted in both art andcreativity.
I've enjoyed such a career.
My wife Susan works for theCounty Arts Council and our
children are pursuing theirpassions in the arts and
humanities In our family.
The pursuit and expression ofart and creativity have never
been questioned, evidence inpart by a home filled with
(27:17):
paintings, ceramics, instrumentsand books and more books.
It reflects a lifelongcompulsion to express beauty and
to understand and connectthrough our common humanity,
noble paths that will always beworth exploring.
Redefine you is a production ofAnne Arundel Community College.
(27:51):
Our executive producer isAllison Baumbusch.
Our producer and editor isAmanda Behrens.
Others who helped with thispodcast include Alicia Renahan,
ricky Hartford and Ben Pierce.
Special thanks to LauraPasquini.
Find show notes, how tosubscribe and other extras on
our website aaccedu slashpodcast.
I'm your host and creator ofthis podcast, dan Baum.
(28:14):
Thanks for listening.