Stephanie has an incredible conversation with Sue Bowles, a survivor, author, speaker, and an overcomer breaking the stigma of mental health issues.
Sue Bowles is a survivor turned award-winning author, speaker, and Master Certified Professional Coach.
She leads My Step Ahead, an organization committed to breaking the stigma around mental health struggles. "You only have to be a step ahead to help the person behind you" is the bedrock to the value Sue brings. She helps stuck people get unstuck by discovering Hope, journeying together for the next step ahead.
Whether speaking on a podcast, stage, or one-on-one, Sue's enthusiasm is contagious, shining the light of hope wherever the listener needs, cheering them to see their dreams become present reality.
Get 5 Tips to Being Unshakable and Sue's website!
https://www.suebowles.com/
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Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean and how to we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma; and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries, and, sometimes a few rants, to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way, and you want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!
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Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean, and how do we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, an expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma, and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries and, sometimes, a few rants to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way and want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!
https://stephanieolson.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Olson (00:03):
Welcome to resilience in life and
leadership with your hostStephanie Olson, speaker, author
addictions sexual violence andresiliency expert. Hello.
Welcome to resilience in lifeand leadership. Sue Bowles is a
survivor turned award winningauthor, speaker and master
certified professional coach.
She leads my step ahead, anorganization committed to
(00:26):
breaking the stigma aroundmental health struggles, you
only have to be one step aheadto help the person behind you is
the bedrock to the value Suebrings. She helped stuck people
get unstuck by discovering hope,journeying together for the next
step ahead. Whether speaking ona podcast stage or one on one
suits, enthusiasm is contagious,shining the light of hope
(00:49):
wherever the listener needs,cheering them to see their
dreams become present reality.
Welcome, Sue. Hello, and welcometo resilience and life and
leadership. And I am here withSue Bowles. Sue, welcome.
Sue Bowles (01:06):
Hello, Stephanie.
Looking forward to this. Thanksfor having me.
Stephanie Olson (01:09):
Oh, gosh, thank you for being on, you've got
quite a story. And I'm reallyexcited to hear it right now.
You're a coach, and you're doinga whole bunch of things to help
people you're an author. But whydon't you tell me how you got to
where you are today.
Sue Bowles (01:28):
It is a bit of a journey. Just a little bit.
Yeah. It's a 180 from where Iwas headed. So as I get into
this, let me give your listenersa quick trigger warning here, a
couple things I'm getting readyto talk about has to do sexual
assault has to do with eatingdisorders and being suicidal. So
if any of those topics can bepotential triggers for you,
(01:51):
please, if you need to shut theshow off and come back later and
make sure you have a self careplan in place. Please do that. I
never want my story to do harmto anybody else. That's not what
I do this for. And it's theexact opposite. I want my story
to help other people.
Stephanie Olson (02:05):
I really appreciate that. Thank you so
much, Sue.
Sue Bowles (02:08):
so having said that, in the life has been a lot of
twists and turns, and I didn'tknow it. And it starts in first
grade. When after school oneday, a classmate enticed me into
the woods on school propertyafter school, held me against my
will for 45 minutes andproceeded to rate me more than
(02:29):
once.
Stephanie Olson (02:31):
Sorry, t
Sue Bowles (02:32):
Thanks.
Stephanie Olson (02:32):
A first grader did this?
Sue Bowles (02:33):
this first grade seven years old. Wow. Wow. And
and I'll come back to that in alittle bit of how things have
turned so much. But Bobby's lastwords to me, put me in a prison.
And I didn't know that I wasbeing sentenced that day. And he
simply said, Don't tell anybody.
And I didn't know what hadhappened. And mind you this is
(02:55):
early 70s. So rape was not onthis radar. We were not talking
about it. You weren't talkingabout it. You might not even
know what it was. You certainlyweren't talking about it with a
seven year old. It just it justwasn't on the radar. So I am
very quick to say that the onlyperson who did anything wrong
(03:16):
that day was the boy who rapedme. Okay. It took me a long time
to buy into that though. That'spart of that was part of the
healing journey. But that itended up becoming a 15 year
secret over a decade, oh mygosh, and it came out my senior
year of college, I think was acouple months before I
graduated. And I was in aconversation with the person who
(03:38):
was my dean of students, hemoved on to another position if
you kind of become my confidantand counselor for years, and I
didn't know that it wanted tocome out. And it kind of came
out and surprised me andsurprised him. Wow. Yeah. Now,
in between that 15 years ofbeing imprisoned versus getting
out of prison. There was a lotmore that happened. There were
(04:01):
other sexual assaults from someneighborhood kids. There was I
grew up in an alcoholic...
dysfunctional family. So as thealcohol started taking over in
some in high school, but evenmore so in college, you know, it
was it was it showed you know,there as in any situation when
(04:26):
you have a an addictionhappening, there's some
emotional abuse that happens.
And the thing is, I wouldn't bevery equipped to say that all
the relationships have beenrestored, and they're actually
better than they ever have everbeen.
Stephanie Olson (04:40):
Wow, that's amazing.
Sue Bowles (04:42):
We have all done the hard work of healing and we'll
come back to that. But in thecourse of all that twice, I was
suicidal. I did not attempt butI was to the point I was ready
to. I developed an eatingdisorder in college. And anyone
who's familiar with that knowsthat an eating disorder is an
addiction. Yeah, it is shroudedin secrecy. Yes. And what I've
(05:07):
learned as I wrote the book, Ilearned a lot about myself in
that process. And one of thethings that I came to realize,
even though I knew I wasinsecure in college, I didn't
really have an understanding ofhow that was coming out. I kind
of knew, but I didn't know howto explain it. I couldn't
identify it. It was just, it wasjust who I wasn't what I did.
(05:28):
That's what what I ended updoing was I realized that I
didn't feel like I mattered.
Yeah, I felt like I was a wasteof space. Yeah. And so if I was
seen, I felt I got my value bybeing seen. So I got over
involved in campus activities.
Because what how I ended uplearning is that if I was
(05:50):
seeing, I felt like I had them.
Sure, sure, I had value Imattered. So there's that going
on behind the scenes. But thenthe other part of it was that
with the eating disorder, eatingdisorders have nothing to do
with food. Absolutely nothing
Stephanie Olson (06:09):
all control.
Sue Bowles (06:10):
It's it's control, trying to control something in
your life that feels out ofcontrol, even if you can't
identify it yet. Right? Right.
And I've come to learn whatthose issues were. But they have
to do with emotions that havenot been resolved about right
usually has to do some kind oftrauma or something in your
background, that hasn't beenresolved. It's really not about
self image. Because even selfimage issues, when you strip it
(06:33):
down have to do with somethingelse.
Stephanie Olson (06:37):
That's right.
Sue Bowles (06:38):
There is just like a secondary issue. There's still
something underneath what isthat insecurity? That anxiety
that fear that lie, you're beingtold underneath the the
insecurity, that's what the rootissue is, it's even just kind of
having to drill down really deepto get to the root. So what was
(06:59):
the eating disorder? If I stayedbusy? I didn't have to think.
And if I didn't have to think Ididn't have to feel. And if I
didn't have to feel I didn'thave to deal with my stuff.
That's right. So I was inavoidance, like crazy. So we had
(07:19):
all that going on. And goingback to seven years old. There's
a lot of studies out you see onthe internet scans of the brain,
that trauma literally rewiresyour brain, because you go into
fight, flight or freeze. That'sright. And your brain processes
(07:40):
things in one of those threechannels. So here I was seven
years old, when your mind isreally starting to develop it,
they call it you know, and Ididn't have a chance to be a
normal kid. Because from thestart, I was operating in either
fight, flight or freeze. And Ifroze. My emotions were frozen
in time that day. And the longeryou're in the freezer, the
(08:04):
thicker the ice gets. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Think of that. Think ofthat item that's in the back
corner of you free, right?
That's right on it. And you'relike, wow, I didn't know that
was there? How much frostaccumulates longer that thing
stuck back there? Yeah, that'swhat was going on with my
Stephanie Olson (08:21):
What a great analogy. I like that.
Sue Bowles (08:24):
So So it's that that is what was, and for the longest
time, I let those events defineme. I was, I was great. I was
this, this happened to me. Andthat was my identity. But, but
that's not who I am. Those areevents. Those are sad,
(08:48):
heartbreaking events. Those aretraumatic life altering events.
But they, they're not who I am.
And they're not. I let them Iconvinced myself they were who I
was, but it wasn't right.
Through a whole lot of hard workhealing over a number of years,
(09:08):
decades. That's not a lot. No,those those events don't define
me anymore. I define the effectthey have on me, because I have
come out on top. Now they arescars that tell a story of hope.
Yes, I use that word scarsbecause all of us are wounded.
(09:30):
All of us have things that hurtswhere we have been injured.
Think about when you cut yourarm, or you maybe need stitches.
You have a wound on your arm andit's bleeding. And it is
susceptible to infection unlessyou properly treat it. You could
put a little band aid over itbut if you need five stitches, a
band aid is not going to do yougood and instead it's going to
(09:55):
be even more susceptible toinfection. So taking that
analogy and apply buying it tomy trauma. I had life altering
events. And they were wounds.
But I was not treating them. Iwas putting a bandaid on them,
and it got infected even more.
(10:15):
Wow, yeah. And the moreinfection there is, the harder
it is, the longer it takes toheal, you have to have more
treatment, do more things to ifyou're that cut, if you don't
get the stitches right away, andit's, you know, you're going to
have even more, it's going tohurt more to heal, the longer
you take to deal with it. Right.
So I have gone through thatprocess. Thankfully, gut
(10:37):
wrenching, not for the faint ofheart wouldn't trade a second
for the world. Now I have healedmoods. And when and when you
after you have your stitchesout, you have a scar there. And
someone says, Hey, we're havingyour arm, you're telling them
the story of your scar? Yeah, Inow have scars, emotional scars,
(10:57):
that are now stories of hope forothers that help light their
path for whatever they're goingthrough that.
Stephanie Olson (11:08):
And that is what it's all about. That is so
important. So now, can we talk alittle bit about the eating
disorder and how you went intorecovery for that? So what
eating disorder did you have?
Sue Bowles (11:29):
I am in recovery from OSFED which stands for
other specified feeding andeating disorder. And it's
actually cool because they wererecording this is this week is
National Eating DisorderAwareness Week, by the time this
airs, it'll be passed. But yeah,it's it's, I did a presentation
at work this morning abouteating disorders, because it's
all about raising thatawareness. In the eating
(11:50):
disorder. The eating disorder Ihave is not one of the big three
people think about you thinkeating disorder,
Stephanie Olson (11:57):
Anorexia, bulimia, and what I mean, I have
binge eating disorder as well asrecovery from anorexia, bulimia
and binge eating disorder. Yeah,those are the three disorders
kind of newer in the realm ofconversation.
Sue Bowles (12:16):
Yeah, right. Yeah, this is the three big ones. The
handout I put out today, thereare 12 different types of eating
disorders. Now, some of themall. Yeah, and some of them are
not, you know, I think there'sonly five that are in the actual
DSM, DSM manual, or fordiagnoses in the medical field.
(12:38):
But mental health professionalsalso address and acknowledge
these other ones. And there aresome I had not heard of, which
was kind of interesting. But Butanyway, so the eating disorder I
have means that I don't fit allthe diagnostic criteria for any
other eating disorder. So whichadds to the stigma which, right?
(12:58):
Absolutely, because when peopleyou know, my guess is when your
listeners hear the word eatingdisorder, they get an image in
their mind, most likely, eitherskin and bones are really
overweight. And I am neither.
Right, right. And if I don'ttell people that I'm in recovery
from an eating disorder, theywould probably never know.
Because here's the thing,eating, there's no look to an
(13:20):
eating disorder. That's correct.
Eating disorders affect men andwomen, they are the second most
lethal of all mental healthstruggles. Second, only the
opioid addiction. And that isonly a more recent flip in these
eating disorders used to be themost lethal, not only because of
the suicide, but then alsobecause of the damage that is
(13:42):
done to the body. Yeah. Sothere's so much misinformation
out there about eatingdisorders. It's not a diet gone
bad. It's not about reality.
It's not it's not about any ofthat. It's an addiction. And
whatever the issue is behind thescenes, that's how it comes out.
Right. The difference is that inany other addiction, one of the
(14:02):
big keys to recovery is toabstain. Yeah. My brother and my
dad are in recovery fromalcoholism. They are they
abstain from alcohol? Yep.
Stephanie Olson (14:14):
So a whole lot easier to
Sue Bowles (14:17):
an eating disorder.
You can abstain from food if youwant to live
Stephanie Olson (14:20):
No, no.
Sue Bowles (14:23):
So you have to figure out how to have a good
relationship with food or foodis no longer the enemy, which
was when I first heard thatphrase relationship with food.
I'm like, what? And it makessense now. Yeah. Because if you
if you are if you have angsttowards eating, you have angst
(14:44):
in that relationship. That'sright.
Stephanie Olson (14:46):
Wow. So that's, that's really good. I I think
people really struggle with thata lot. And I think eating
disorders are such an epidemic.
You And, and for that veryreason. And I think about all
that has happened recently withthe pandemic and, you know,
people who are having disorderedeating throughout that with all
(15:11):
of the anything in the mentalhealth arena, it's just been a
very, very difficult strugglefor people.
Sue Bowles (15:22):
It has, if you think if one good thing has come from
the pandemic, it's that mentalhealth and eating disorders have
come to the forefront. Yeah,yeah, people were talking about
it more mental is schoolcounselors are more aware of it.
Parents are more aware of it.
Even the medical field isfinally more aware of it.
Because I say that because BMIis not
Stephanie Olson (15:43):
No kidding.
Thank you.
Sue Bowles (15:48):
BMI does not take into consideration. muscle mass,
nope. Which is more dense andheavier than fat. That's right.
So if your doctors only lookingat your weight compared to your
height, there, and they thinkyou're overweight, which in my
case, my BMI with my doctor willtell her I'm overweight, and I'm
(16:11):
not overweight. Yeah, you know.
And then I tell the story, it'skind of funny, because my last
checkup last year, I sawaccident, she's looking flew my
chart. And I hear like, I knowwhat she's looking at, because I
know what's going on here. Andshe looks at me, she says, we
didn't get any shorter. So Ireally knew what she was talking
about. And I'm like, don't makeme educated. I'm not going to
(16:34):
like it. My How am I and musclemass to you? Yeah. At that point
in time, I had not. It kind ofconcerned me a little bit like I
never suddenly you put on therewasn't much but what happened.
And I was talking to mydietician about it. She said,
Sue, you just finished physicaltherapy, you put on muscle, and
(16:56):
you're continuing to do stuff athome, you gain muscle mass. I'm
like, That explains why I don'tfeel any difference. That feels
right. any different at all?
There was no issue with clothes,there's no issue with anything.
And like, but what is it? What'sgoing on here? And it was funny
(17:17):
that my doctor really went firststarted looking at them, like,
just don't go there. Just don'tgo there. Because if you do, I
will follow up and you're not?
Stephanie Olson (17:28):
Well, I think that there is so much
misinformation about weightloss, there is so much
misinformation about what peopleshould weigh or BMI. And I
think, you know, there's Iliterally just saw something
where somebody claimed to lose,like 10 pounds in three hours.
(17:53):
Come on. Okay, come on. Yeah, 10pounds in three hours. And first
Sue Bowles (17:58):
First of all, I call bull, second of all I have a
real concern for your health.
Stephanie Olson (18:02):
Well, and it's so frustrating to see that
because there are so manyparticularly young people who
are falling into this, this ideathat that skinny equals optimal
health. And just like you said,when it comes to true health,
(18:24):
you cannot look at a person andsay, Wow, they're they're
completely healthy.
Sue Bowles (18:30):
Yeah, that's it. One of the things that I when I
first went into recovery, sortof working with a dietitian, I
had to learn how to eat. Yes.
And that sounds right. Soundsreally weird. But but here's the
thing. fats, proteins and carbsare all needed on a daily
consistent, balanced way.
(18:52):
Correct. Fats are the only thingthat protects your bodily
organs, your vital organs andgive you a sensation of being
full. Yeah, carbs are the onlything that gives you brain
energy. And protein is the onlything that rebuilds your
strength. Yeah, so if our bodyis designed to need all three,
and diets are based onrestriction, why are we going
(19:16):
against how our body isdesigned? That's right. So in my
case, because I had cheated mybody of the proper nutrition for
so many years, when I when I sayI had the real I hadn't learned
how to eat. First of all, I hadhad to get used to listening to
my hunger cues, because I hadlearned to shut them down by
(19:36):
snacking. So because if I againif I wasn't hungry, I didn't
have to feel right think anddeal. So So with all that, I my
homework my first week, mydietician was just when you're
hungry, eat. I just had the wordyes. Oh my gosh, was it ever and
(19:57):
then we moved into justbreakfast Just work on your
exchanges for breakfast. Andwhat I mean by exchanges is my
meal plans based on the diabeticexchange system, were based on
the serving size of a foodlabel, you will see, say the
serving sizes, the half cup,half cups going to have so many
micro grams of fats, carbs andproteins in it. And then you
(20:19):
take that, and then figure outhow many grams of that equal one
serving of something, you know,and you kind of figure it out.
So, and that was reallyfrustrating. A really confusing
for a long time. Yeah. Becauseall of the eating disorder
whispers of You're so stupid.
Why can't you figure this out?
Mm hmm. Really, really loud?
Yeah. And we talked a whole lotabout that. But I still remember
(20:40):
the day when my brain started toclear, my dietician kept telling
me you are not your eatingdisorder. That isn't that's your
eating disorder voice. That'snot you. And because the longer
you are in in disorder, andaddiction, you become enmeshed
with it. And you can't tellyourself from somebody else. It
(21:01):
just is. And that was such acritical point. So I remember
over a couple months, but Iremember being in the little
kitchenette at work. And one ofmy red flags is if I get
overwhelmed food choices, I justshut the refrigerator door, say
screw it, I'll just go snack. Sothat was happening at work. But
(21:22):
one of the things as I startedrealizing that I'm not my eating
disorder, and you may befamiliar with it, a lot of
people find it beneficial andhelpful to give their eating
disorder a name. I named myeating disorder, Ed. So I
literally talk out loud at notloud for Buddy the office to
hear me to hear. And what andthis particular day, I shut the
(21:45):
door. I was getting ready tojust skip it. And I'm like, ED
Shut up. That's all I anythinghappened. I would just like edge
Shut up. Yeah, just yeah, that'sall I would say. And then the
key to it, though, is doing theexact opposite of what your
eating disorder voice is tellingyou to do. Yeah. So Ed was
telling me is too much chemicfood choice, you can decide you
(22:07):
want to get yogurt cheeserefrigerator of your meal,
right? You know, I had a 5050chance and I got it wrong.
Instead of that it was okay, No,shut up. And I'm going to make
myself do this. Right. So whatended up happening though, is
that this particular day, I wasstarting to, you know, my body
was starting to recover a littlebit. And I remember how clear my
(22:29):
brain was, it literally fell onmy brain was split. Because I
was like, my brain feels moreclear. And I didn't understand I
didn't, I didn't realize orunderstand the eating disorder
fog. Because again, my brain waswas not getting the nutrients it
needed. Now, what that meant,what my body had to learn over
(22:50):
time, was that I would take careof this. So for a while there,
it was getting the good stuff,and it's kind of hoarding it.
And I noticed that and I, again,talk that through as your
dietitian, because, you know,every little thing when you're
trying to fight this thing, youtalk about every little Yes,
yeah. So we talked about that.
And she said, Sue, just keepdoing what you're doing, as your
(23:13):
body learns that it can trustyou, and that you are going to
give it what it needs on aconsistent, balanced basis,
it will level out. Because mybody knows, and I've learned to
listen to it. And I've learnedto respond to it. Right. So even
though there was that initial,you know, my body was reacting
(23:34):
and hoarding. And I felt that Ikind of had that bloated
feeling. That dissipated as mybody realized that there was a
new note and there was a newnormal, and it could trust in
that normal.
Stephanie Olson (23:48):
And that takes a long time to get to that
adjustment. Oh, yeah. So Sue,how, how did you learn because
sometimes people don't evenrecognize that their eating is
disordered. Especially when youknow, it's not your typical
anorexia or bulimia. How did youdiscover that? Or, and maybe you
(24:13):
already knew the whole time, buthow did you discover that you
were struggling with an eatingdisorder?
Sue Bowles (24:20):
I kind of I knew but I didn't know. Yeah. And what I
mean by that was, I would callit indirect sick tendencies, or
odd eating behaviors. But Inever called it an eating
disorder. Because to me, thatwas my it was really bad. Yeah,
control because eating disordersare not controlled. Equals ly.
(24:43):
So what happened for me was thatI had for a number of years
there. People weren't sure whatto say. They were. I remember
going to my pastor's house forChristmas Eve. Dinner after
Christmas Eve service, myroommate and I and they were
serving food. And I rememberedthey were certainly fixing my
plate. But they looked at myroommate to see if it was if it
(25:06):
was the serving size was okay.
Really? Yeah. But no one. No oneever said it's, too I'm
concerned because I see thesebehaviors. Hmm, no one. But they
all doing? Yeah. But so what?
What happened? What what endedup happening though is that even
though I have that situationwhere people knew and didn't
(25:29):
know what to say, I What kept itfor me was I had some speaking
in my life. And what, what Ihave learned and when I speak, I
say this is that you have to bebold, to express the concern.
But there are so many cautionsin what and how and when. And
(25:55):
the first caution is, Are youthe right person? Because, as
with any addiction, there are alot of defenses, right? The
person involved is living in alie. So therefore, they're
light. But the lie is truth tothem. Right? Right. Right, you
are coming up against someonewho can't tell truth from lie.
(26:18):
And they've been duped, andthey've come in been enmeshed in
it. And it's not their fault.
It's the nature of theaddiction. That's right. So you
have to be the right person.
First of all, not everyone isgoing to take that expression of
concern. I'm not sayingconfrontation, the expression of
concern from everybody. Right,you have to be the right person.
(26:43):
So if you are that right for it,yeah,
Stephanie Olson (26:45):
yeah. Well, I'm just curious, because, and
you're going to answer my secondquestion. So I'm just gonna let
you talk on that one. But how doyou know if you're not the right
person?
Sue Bowles (26:57):
That's a great question. I think you have in
your gut, you know, if you canhave those deep level
conversations, if yourrelationship is more of that as
an acquaintance, or a funless,go out kind of friend. And more,
for lack of better phrase.
surfacey. Yeah. And, you know,good for companionship and
(27:20):
laugh. Right, right. Hang out,let's go have coffee, but we're
not really having. You haven'thad a real heart to heart. Yeah,
your other person is not openingup to you, and you don't feel
safe opening up to them. Right.
That's, that's your, there yougo right there. If you have if
the foundation of therelationship is such that it's
(27:40):
more of social, or more of aconvenience, and not in it for
the long haul. If you're in yourknees, I'm in there with you.
Yeah, that's how you know,because, you know, I could have
people say something to me. AndI'd be like, you don't? You
don't know me? Right? Right. Youknow about me, but you don't
(28:02):
know me. So I think I think youwhen I think you after evaluate
how what's the depth and levelof the relationship of what you
feel with that person? Right.
And they feel with you? Becauseif you likewise, don't feel safe
or comfortable opening up tothat person? Yeah, they're not
gonna take it from you. Yeah,exactly. Exactly. You're gonna
(28:25):
be another person saying thesame old thing that everybody
else has said. And you don'tknow them.
Stephanie Olson (28:33):
And I would add to because I think for some
reason with weight, I don't knowif we do this with anything
else. But I would add, ifyou're, or if you have somebody
in your life that is houndingyou on, you know, call, either
I'm going to call them names, sothey stop eating, or I'm going
(28:54):
to call them names. So they keepeating or whatever it may be.
That just doesn't
Sue Bowles (28:59):
know. Oh,
Stephanie Olson (29:01):
so if that's the part that would not be a
safe person, obviously, to thatconversation.
Sue Bowles (29:08):
You are expressing literally a concern over the
life or death of that person.
Yeah. You are loving them enoughto put the relationship on the
line. Yeah, yeah. But you can'tyou don't know. By evaluating
the depths of the relationship.
Stephanie Olson (29:25):
That's good.
Okay, then I interrupted you. Sowhat is that? What does that
look like? What are you saying?
So go ahead.
Sue Bowles (29:32):
So but so when you know, you're the right person?
Yeah. When you address it andhow you address it makes a world
of difference. Becauseterminology is everything to
someone in it caught up in aneating disorder. Yeah. Because
if you look at them and say,Man, you really lost a lot of
weight. That's validation tothem that hey,
Stephanie Olson (29:54):
thank you.
Sue Bowles (29:55):
Yeah, I have no reason to change my life. That's
right. That's right. Compared toI'm, I'm concerned for you,
because I've noticed afterdinner, you tend to isolate and
go to your room by yourself eachnight. And I missed that
interaction. That's isn't that awhole different message?
Stephanie Olson (30:15):
Yeah. And we're not even talking about weight.
We're not even talking aboutfood. Yes, you're talking.
Sue Bowles (30:21):
You're talking about observale behavior.
Stephanie Olson (30:23):
That's great.
Sue Bowles (30:24):
Or, you know, I've noticed in our interactions,
that there seems to me thereseems to be some tension that
isn't usually there. Right. Canwe talk about that? I don't like
that. I value our relationshiptoo much to let that go. I love
that, you know, coming at itfrom the if statement, the basic
(30:45):
communication thing, not you.
Because if I look at you say,Stephanie, you Yeah, what's your
reaction? Your walls? Walls?
Right, exactly. But if I sayit's definitely I'm concerned,
concerned, when I see this notI'm concerned for you. Because
again, it's you. Yeah, but yeah,take take the person out of
that. And focus on the behavior.
Yeah. Because the observablebehavior can't be denied. Right.
(31:09):
Now, they may argueinterpretation. That's a
different ballgame. But youalready have common ground that
the behavior is not beingargued. They're not denying that
the isolate, they're denying whythey isolate, yes, different
things. You look for the commonground first, and then you build
(31:30):
from there.
Stephanie Olson (31:33):
That's good. So how long did it take you to get
from eating disorder to okay,I'm, I'm in recovery. I'm, I'm
doing much better.
Sue Bowles (31:45):
I started with a dietitian in July of 2016. So I
am just coming into six years.
So I would say that I started myrecovery journey, and I was in
counseling long before then I'mstill in counseling is still the
same kind of counseling
Stephanie Olson (32:01):
Counseling's a good thing.
Sue Bowles (32:02):
Oh, my gosh. Holy smokes, I am so blessed that my
gosh, a first week in April, weare going to celebrate
Stephanie Olson (32:12):
14 years. Oh, wow. That's great.
Sue Bowles (32:15):
And I I have gone places. I didn't know I needed
to go. And I definitely neededto go there. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my
gosh. Yeah. And she specializesin eating disorders, which makes
lousy. Yes, yeah. And griefs, weget through it get through lose
a mom. And so I have thecriminal, the crown. So yeah.
(32:35):
But that in terms of when Ientered recovery, I started I
went, I started meeting with adietician and went back to get
my meal plan. To me that is whenI started recovering. Now,
recovery doesn't mean it's done.
No. Recovery doesn't mean you'vearrived. No, because I haven't
arrived, right. But that's theday that I drew the line in the
(32:57):
sand, and did a 180 and startedto get out of the holes and I
dug, therefore I was inrecovery.
Stephanie Olson (33:06):
That's a beautiful way to say that. I
absolutely love that. Becausewe're going to have days that
are more difficult, or we'regoing to have days where it
seems you know, it's it's yourcomfort or your go to and it's
it's overcoming those things. Imean, that's what resilience is
all about. That's, that's I lovehow you said that. That's
(33:28):
amazing.
Sue Bowles (33:29):
And to that point, you I just met my dietician. Two
days ago, I met my counselorlast night in I've had some of
those off days over the lastcouple of weeks. I'm aware of
them, right, I'm doing what Ican to fight them. And part of
that is telling my dieticianabout it. So we could kind of
work through it. And we came upwith a plan and that I told her
(33:51):
that that takes the pressure offjust already knowing that takes
the pressure off. So now I cancome home and execute it after I
get off work. But in the courseof that conversation, I had not
made this connection. Andpartners like you've been doing
this long enough why he's makingthat connection. And like, you
know what, Ed Shut up. That'smy, that's my eating disorder
(34:15):
voice blaming and shaming me.
That's right. And instead ofbuying into that, it's simply
okay. I have now learned thatthe work my counselor and I are
doing on some unexpectedtriggers is stirring a lot
emotionally that I may notrealize on the outside, but
that's what's happening. Andthat's why suddenly my red flags
are coming up why I'm seeingthis happen or that happened.
(34:39):
And that also was veryenlightening for me and help me
take myself off the hook. Yeah,because then I understood. I
didn't have to get mad at myselfbecause I understood it was the
eating disorder raising its uglyhead in relation to emotions, in
trouble dealing with US deja vuway back when to call her. So
(35:02):
yes, it can still come up andtry to sneak up from behind. But
when you have that recoveryteam, and when you have some
some distance behind you, youare more as more attuned to the
tactics. And then you realizeyou really are not creative, are
you?
Stephanie Olson (35:24):
You keep telling me the same stuff.
Sue Bowles (35:26):
Oh, I'm gonna buy into that this time. You might
have duped me for a second. Butreally? Yeah, well, really
boring.
Stephanie Olson (35:36):
Love that.
Well, and it's all about feelingthose feelings, those emotions
and being willing to sit withthose. And that's uncomfortable.
That is not fun. Yeah.
Sue Bowles (35:50):
Because when you're active in your disorder,
feelings are the enemy. Yeah.
And therefore food is the enemy.
Yeah. And you're, it's hardenough to have to deal with the
food. Yeah. But when you aredealing with the cause of the
issues behind the food being theissue, right, it is a double
(36:11):
edged sword. I took a year offfrom writing my book when I
first went into recovery,because that was also the time I
was finally dealing with therape over four decades after the
event. I didn't, it was all Icould do to focus on getting
through the day. So what and asI look back, that was one of the
(36:32):
best things of self care I coulddo is just put the book on the
shelf, and just do the hard workof healing. Knowing the book
would take care of itself whenit was time. That actually was
not a disappointment. That wasthe best thing I could have done
for me. And for the finishedproduct.
Stephanie Olson (36:51):
Good for you.
So what a fabulous segue, whydon't you tell us about your
book?
Sue Bowles (36:58):
That was not planned for sure. I do have one nearby.
So this much I know the spacebetween. It's on Amazon and
Kindle. And the concept in thebook is my story. The first half
of the book, that limb backup.
The concept as a title isn'tthis much I know is my story.
All of us have a story. Yeah,your life is your story. That is
(37:22):
the one thing no one can evertake from me. The second half
the space between talks aboutthe healing journey of going
from having wounds, to havingscars. And that process. I go
into much more detail about anumber of different things that
(37:45):
happened when I was growing upand through college and after
college. All of that commonthread of woundedness. And how
kept piling on and piling on andpiling online wasn't digging
out. And then the second halftalks about the healing journey.
My healing started in 2014. Sixonly been seven and a half
years. Guess going on eightyears now. Yeah. That was the
(38:07):
year we're dealing with therape. But it not oddly enough,
for coincidentally enough wassort of looking for purposefully
enough. There was a retreat thatI went on in the fall. Earlier
(38:27):
in the year, there was a moviethat came out about rich
Mullins, he's a big Christianmusician. 97 is big song is
awesome God, and they did amovie about his life. And the
first 20 minutes were reallyhard watch for me for me because
they hit home. Wow. But again, Iwasn't in recovery. And I didn't
I didn't want to be found outbecause I had put on all these
(38:50):
masks that Suze Okay, yeah, soeven when I'm wiping tears, I'm
like doing this doesn't mattermy Yeah. You know, if you know
that thing. So anyway, so in thefall, they did a retreat, to
carry on the conversation aboutthe themes. And I was supposed
to go to Nashville to seefriends and I just kind of kept
(39:10):
feeling that hard time. And Iwas going this way with that.
And I was I was in a Push MePull You situation. And I
finally gave him up for theretreat. With the retreat, they
opened up a Facebook room acouple of weeks before the
retreat. So anyone is going onretreat and get to know each
other. This first year therewere 50 of us. We were all total
(39:33):
strangers. The only thing we hadin common was this movie. Wow.
They asked us to share ourstory. Oh my god, I had never
shared my story publicly. Neverabout the rape or anything. So I
lurked and I stopped everyeverybody else out three days.
commented encouraged likes thatkind of thing. But wasn't
(39:56):
telling mine morning. You knowhow Get the heart just pounding
out of your chest, you start tosweat that I was like, Okay,
it's my turn it literally put ona pot of coffee. And for the
first 30 minutes, typed out mystory for the first time ever, I
was shaking. I was crying. I wasa mess. It was literally four
o'clock in the morning. And Ihit post, and I expected to be
(40:19):
trashed the rest. Because that'sall I had ever known. So why
would I expect anything else? Weare now seven and a half years
past that first post. I have yetto hear one negative comment.
Not one. Instead it was You'reso brave. Ugh, I appreciate you.
(40:39):
Wow, thank you for sharing. AllI want to meet you all these
things that started my healingjourney because I had a place
where it was okay to not haveOkay, yeah. That weekend, I went
into that we can call myself theholy exception. I was imploding
again. I was not doing well. Iwas starting down the spiral.
And I had convinced myself I hadbought into the lie. Yeah,
(41:04):
right. I was a waste of space. Icalled myself the holy exception
that everything in the Bible wasgood enough for everybody else.
But me. That was too screwed uptoo far gone waste of space.
Over the course of the weekend,I left there saying for the
first time and starting tobelieve that Jesus Christ loves
(41:26):
me and not only loves me, heactually likes me. Yeah. Then
he's absolutely crazy about me.
Stephanie Olson (41:34):
And he knows everything about you and still
likes you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Sue Bowles (41:39):
So that started it.
And a staff member has sincethen, that that first retreat
was like a Hail Mary for me. WasI lovable? Could could God
really love me? Could his kidslove me? And I found a place
where it's true. And that nowhas now is now called Walking
Stick retreats. We have aretreat twice a year, it is open
to anybody. Our next one. Idon't know when this is going to
(42:03):
air. Our next one is the lastweekend of April, April 29.
Through may 1.
Stephanie Olson (42:08):
It should. It should err in April, beginning
of April. I think so yeah.
Sue Bowles (42:13):
So then you then go to walkingstick retreats.org.
Then we got something coming upfrom the fall. So it's open to
anybody it is a safe place whereyou can just be you can either
fight with God, you can wrestleyou can, you know, have
questions, you can just kind ofsoak it all in whatever you need
to do for you on your journey.
This so that started things thefirst year, that's what we'll go
(42:38):
into more of this whole into thebook. This is all in the book.
That first year, I had to own mystory. And this gets in that
whole healing dream. Because Iwas in denial about my story I
didn't like like, yeah, did mystory. Right? So I didn't want
to tell him by. Right. Sobecause when if I tell him about
him if I had known therefore itreally happens. All right. Yeah.
(43:00):
Right. So anyway, so the firstyear I opened my story, and
there were a lot of tears aroundthat. Yeah, when I call when I
now call my sacred moment ofrelease the next year. And this
is an important part that Ithink people don't think about
or gloss over. I had to grievemy story. Yes. My story has a
lot of loss in it. Yes. And thesacred moment of release. The
(43:27):
second year resulted in me heavecrying for about 15 minutes.
Yeah, that heart, and yet notone negative comment. Someone
actually came over to me put hisarm around me. And I later found
out prayed God, whatever it is,put it on me. That's the
(43:48):
community that is involved inthis, this that's the caliber of
love these things. Wow. Thethird year is where things
started turn for me. This iswhen I started writing the book.
And it was I left the retreatwith the morsel that I am
valuable to God. When I dared tobelieve that I met. Yeah, that's
(44:09):
when things started to change.
That's when everything elsestarted happening. And it has
just been a continual growthprocess since I always get some
kind of morsel. And it's it'sthere's nothing special or
magical about retreat. And I'm,I'm try very hard to make this
(44:33):
point. What happens at theretreat, is that the staff gets
out of the way and lets the HolySpirit do his job. Yep. That's
what happens there. It isdifferent for each person. For
me, when I came, I was sobroken. I didn't even say Humpty
Dumpty was going to have enoughYeah, put it back together
again. Yeah, I was heading downthe implosion throat. I was
(44:56):
probably going to be headingtowards self harm and very near
future. So there's nothingmagical about the retreat. It is
simply the power of love. So allthat is in the book and a whole
lot more. book came outSeptember 2019. In November
2020. At one second placenonfiction at the faith and
(45:19):
fellowship Book Festival.
Stephanie Olson (45:21):
That's fabulous. Congratulations.
Sue Bowles (45:24):
Yeah, I was excited.
It's my first book. It's selfpublished. And it one won an
award. So for me, that wasvalidation that I'm doing some
governance we do. Yeah. Oh, Ilove that. I have concepts for
books two, three, and four. I'mjust starting on number two
right now. Yeah. And that'sawesome. It's good. It's, it's,
if my story can help somebodyelse I want to share that is
(45:48):
that okay, bottom line. I usedto be really hacked off with
God. Yeah, why did any of thesethings that have happened in my
life are a lot for anybody tohandle. And all of it has
happened in my life. I washacked off why? You must hate
me. Yeah. Why did you let thishappen. And you know, I'm not
(46:10):
getting into Theology at all.
But what I have learned and cometo appreciate is that I now have
opportunity. And I don't want tosay, right, but I have
authenticity, to relate to alarge number of people. And I
(46:35):
wish it was, I wish thereweren't those people out there
that need to relate to thatright? Time, I'm thankful for
what God has done in my life, toallow me to be one of those
people that can now relate toothers. My business name is my
step ahead. The concept is thatyou only have to be a step ahead
(46:56):
to help the person behind you.
Oh, I like we do like to thinkwe have to have it all figured
out. We have nothing to offerbecause I'm a screw up or I
don't I don't have this littlecorner of my life, you know, on
a row or whatever. And peopleare gonna like me or accept me
or feeling qualified orwhatever. That's a bunch of
baloney. Yeah, you only have tobe a step ahead. You have walked
a journey, that someone else isalso walking. And you can help
(47:21):
that person with the knowledgeyou have, no matter how big or
small that knowledge is. Yeah.
So while I'm still reaching outfor help, to help me in my next
step, I want to reach back andhelp the person who's behind me,
right? Yeah, there we have awhole human chain of support.
(47:43):
That's what my step ahead isabout. That is what Super Bowls
coaching is all about, ishelping people take that next
step. That's what it that's whatmy life is about. And I it's an
honor and a privilege whensomeone lets me into their life
to help them take that nextstep. And I don't take that
lightly. Yeah.
Stephanie Olson (48:03):
Yeah, that is beautiful. So so how can people
get in touch with you? How canpeople utilize you as a coach
and find your book?
Sue Bowles (48:14):
Yes, best place is Sibyls dot coms, BoWLes, there's
a link to the book there, youcan send me a message through
the website. And I'll be intouch within 24 hours. And we
can get to work if if there's apodcast, someone's wanting me to
speak on or conference or I doall that. But also really just
enjoy the one on one or groupcoaching. And in just real
(48:38):
quickly, coaching and counselingare two different things, right?
Counseling, deals with the pastto bring you to the present.
Coaching is what I do. Andcoaching takes you in the
present and helps you get whereyou want to go. Right. I want to
make sure I'm clear that thatnot that delineation. Yeah, that
doesn't mean you can't contactme. In the course of our
(48:59):
conversations. If I feel there'ssomething that would be better
served in counseling, we'll talkabout that. Right? Right doesn't
mean that doesn't mean I can'thelp you in coaching at the same
time. I have clients who areseeing a counselor and we still
coach. Yeah, because we'reworking on two different things.
Sure. Absolutely. And that's myobligation and commitment to my
clients. That's what I'm tryingto do is know where those
(49:21):
boundaries are. So don't makethat decision for yourself.
Because most likely there'ssomething lying in your head
anyway because they don't wantyou to change. That's right. So
it's a privilege. I I'm honoredto be able to do that. I also
have just a little tip sheet Ican give as called five tips to
being unshakable. Oh great. Andso so so if anyone wants to sign
(49:42):
up for that, they can go to thewebsite and sign up for that as
well. I get that too. Oh, I
Stephanie Olson (49:46):
love that. I love that you are just an
inspiration. I love that you areusing your story to help other
people. And that is really whatit's all about. You are doing
some amazing things and, and youare very courageous. I think
that that is something that isevident and what a blessing that
(50:10):
is to thanks. Yeah, thank you.
Okay, so final question. Justlike does resilience mean to
you?
Sue Bowles (50:19):
Resilience means defining the events and not
letting them define you.
Stephanie Olson (50:26):
Hmm. Oh, I like that. That's good. That's good.
Well, this has been a pleasure,you and I, and I hope we can
stay connected for sure. What agreat work you're doing and I am
getting your book. Soabsolutely. No, thank you. And
(50:47):
thank you for being on the show.
And everybody reached out tosue, buy her book and utilize
that to go that next step inyour journey and I thank you for
joining us on resilience in lifeleadership. We'll see you next
time. Thank you for listening.
(51:08):
Please share with anyone youthink will benefit from this
podcast.
Welcome to resilience in life and
leadership with your hostStephanie Olson, speaker, author
addictions sexual violence andresiliency expert. Hello.
Welcome to resilience in lifeand leadership. Sue Bowles is a
survivor turned award winningauthor, speaker and master
certified professional coach.
She leads my step ahead, anorganization committed to
(00:26):
breaking the stigma aroundmental health struggles, you
only have to be one step aheadto help the person behind you is
the bedrock to the value Suebrings. She helped stuck people
get unstuck by discovering hope,journeying together for the next
step ahead. Whether speaking ona podcast stage or one on one
suits, enthusiasm is contagious,shining the light of hope
(00:49):
wherever the listener needs,cheering them to see their
dreams become present reality.
Welcome, Sue. Hello, and welcometo resilience and life and
leadership. And I am here withSue Bowles. Sue, welcome.
Sue Bowles (01:06):
Hello, Stephanie.
Looking forward to this. Thanksfor having me.
Stephanie Olson (01:09):
Oh, gosh, thank you for being on, you've got
quite a story. And I'm reallyexcited to hear it right now.
You're a coach, and you're doinga whole bunch of things to help
people you're an author. But whydon't you tell me how you got to
where you are today.
Sue Bowles (01:28):
It is a bit of a journey. Just a little bit.
Yeah. It's a 180 from where Iwas headed. So as I get into
this, let me give your listenersa quick trigger warning here, a
couple things I'm getting readyto talk about has to do sexual
assault has to do with eatingdisorders and being suicidal. So
if any of those topics can bepotential triggers for you,
(01:51):
please, if you need to shut theshow off and come back later and
make sure you have a self careplan in place. Please do that. I
never want my story to do harmto anybody else. That's not what
I do this for. And it's theexact opposite. I want my story
to help other people.
Stephanie Olson (02:05):
I really appreciate that. Thank you so
much, Sue.
Sue Bowles (02:08):
so having said that, in the life has been a lot of
twists and turns, and I didn'tknow it. And it starts in first
grade. When after school oneday, a classmate enticed me into
the woods on school propertyafter school, held me against my
will for 45 minutes andproceeded to rate me more than
(02:29):
once.
Stephanie Olson (02:31):
Sorry, t
Sue Bowles (02:32):
Thanks.
Stephanie Olson (02:32):
A first grader did this?
Sue Bowles (02:33):
this first grade seven years old. Wow. Wow. And
and I'll come back to that in alittle bit of how things have
turned so much. But Bobby's lastwords to me, put me in a prison.
And I didn't know that I wasbeing sentenced that day. And he
simply said, Don't tell anybody.
And I didn't know what hadhappened. And mind you this is
(02:55):
early 70s. So rape was not onthis radar. We were not talking
about it. You weren't talkingabout it. You might not even
know what it was. You certainlyweren't talking about it with a
seven year old. It just it justwasn't on the radar. So I am
very quick to say that the onlyperson who did anything wrong
(03:16):
that day was the boy who rapedme. Okay. It took me a long time
to buy into that though. That'spart of that was part of the
healing journey. But that itended up becoming a 15 year
secret over a decade, oh mygosh, and it came out my senior
year of college, I think was acouple months before I
graduated. And I was in aconversation with the person who
(03:38):
was my dean of students, hemoved on to another position if
you kind of become my confidantand counselor for years, and I
didn't know that it wanted tocome out. And it kind of came
out and surprised me andsurprised him. Wow. Yeah. Now,
in between that 15 years ofbeing imprisoned versus getting
out of prison. There was a lotmore that happened. There were
(04:01):
other sexual assaults from someneighborhood kids. There was I
grew up in an alcoholic...
dysfunctional family. So as thealcohol started taking over in
some in high school, but evenmore so in college, you know, it
was it was it showed you know,there as in any situation when
(04:26):
you have a an addictionhappening, there's some
emotional abuse that happens.
And the thing is, I wouldn't bevery equipped to say that all
the relationships have beenrestored, and they're actually
better than they ever have everbeen.
Stephanie Olson (04:40):
Wow, that's amazing.
Sue Bowles (04:42):
We have all done the hard work of healing and we'll
come back to that. But in thecourse of all that twice, I was
suicidal. I did not attempt butI was to the point I was ready
to. I developed an eatingdisorder in college. And anyone
who's familiar with that knowsthat an eating disorder is an
addiction. Yeah, it is shroudedin secrecy. Yes. And what I've
(05:07):
learned as I wrote the book, Ilearned a lot about myself in
that process. And one of thethings that I came to realize,
even though I knew I wasinsecure in college, I didn't
really have an understanding ofhow that was coming out. I kind
of knew, but I didn't know howto explain it. I couldn't
identify it. It was just, it wasjust who I wasn't what I did.
(05:28):
That's what what I ended updoing was I realized that I
didn't feel like I mattered.
Yeah, I felt like I was a wasteof space. Yeah. And so if I was
seen, I felt I got my value bybeing seen. So I got over
involved in campus activities.
Because what how I ended uplearning is that if I was
(05:50):
seeing, I felt like I had them.
Sure, sure, I had value Imattered. So there's that going
on behind the scenes. But thenthe other part of it was that
with the eating disorder, eatingdisorders have nothing to do
with food. Absolutely nothing
Stephanie Olson (06:09):
all control.
Sue Bowles (06:10):
It's it's control, trying to control something in
your life that feels out ofcontrol, even if you can't
identify it yet. Right? Right.
And I've come to learn whatthose issues were. But they have
to do with emotions that havenot been resolved about right
usually has to do some kind oftrauma or something in your
background, that hasn't beenresolved. It's really not about
self image. Because even selfimage issues, when you strip it
(06:33):
down have to do with somethingelse.
Stephanie Olson (06:37):
That's right.
Sue Bowles (06:38):
There is just like a secondary issue. There's still
something underneath what isthat insecurity? That anxiety
that fear that lie, you're beingtold underneath the the
insecurity, that's what the rootissue is, it's even just kind of
having to drill down really deepto get to the root. So what was
(06:59):
the eating disorder? If I stayedbusy? I didn't have to think.
And if I didn't have to think Ididn't have to feel. And if I
didn't have to feel I didn'thave to deal with my stuff.
That's right. So I was inavoidance, like crazy. So we had
(07:19):
all that going on. And goingback to seven years old. There's
a lot of studies out you see onthe internet scans of the brain,
that trauma literally rewiresyour brain, because you go into
fight, flight or freeze. That'sright. And your brain processes
(07:40):
things in one of those threechannels. So here I was seven
years old, when your mind isreally starting to develop it,
they call it you know, and Ididn't have a chance to be a
normal kid. Because from thestart, I was operating in either
fight, flight or freeze. And Ifroze. My emotions were frozen
in time that day. And the longeryou're in the freezer, the
(08:04):
thicker the ice gets. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Think of that. Think ofthat item that's in the back
corner of you free, right?
That's right on it. And you'relike, wow, I didn't know that
was there? How much frostaccumulates longer that thing
stuck back there? Yeah, that'swhat was going on with my
Stephanie Olson (08:21):
What a great analogy. I like that.
Sue Bowles (08:24):
So So it's that that is what was, and for the longest
time, I let those events defineme. I was, I was great. I was
this, this happened to me. Andthat was my identity. But, but
that's not who I am. Those areevents. Those are sad,
(08:48):
heartbreaking events. Those aretraumatic life altering events.
But they, they're not who I am.
And they're not. I let them Iconvinced myself they were who I
was, but it wasn't right.
Through a whole lot of hard workhealing over a number of years,
(09:08):
decades. That's not a lot. No,those those events don't define
me anymore. I define the effectthey have on me, because I have
come out on top. Now they arescars that tell a story of hope.
Yes, I use that word scarsbecause all of us are wounded.
(09:30):
All of us have things that hurtswhere we have been injured.
Think about when you cut yourarm, or you maybe need stitches.
You have a wound on your arm andit's bleeding. And it is
susceptible to infection unlessyou properly treat it. You could
put a little band aid over itbut if you need five stitches, a
band aid is not going to do yougood and instead it's going to
(09:55):
be even more susceptible toinfection. So taking that
analogy and apply buying it tomy trauma. I had life altering
events. And they were wounds.
But I was not treating them. Iwas putting a bandaid on them,
and it got infected even more.
(10:15):
Wow, yeah. And the moreinfection there is, the harder
it is, the longer it takes toheal, you have to have more
treatment, do more things to ifyou're that cut, if you don't
get the stitches right away, andit's, you know, you're going to
have even more, it's going tohurt more to heal, the longer
you take to deal with it. Right.
So I have gone through thatprocess. Thankfully, gut
(10:37):
wrenching, not for the faint ofheart wouldn't trade a second
for the world. Now I have healedmoods. And when and when you
after you have your stitchesout, you have a scar there. And
someone says, Hey, we're havingyour arm, you're telling them
the story of your scar? Yeah, Inow have scars, emotional scars,
(10:57):
that are now stories of hope forothers that help light their
path for whatever they're goingthrough that.
Stephanie Olson (11:08):
And that is what it's all about. That is so
important. So now, can we talk alittle bit about the eating
disorder and how you went intorecovery for that? So what
eating disorder did you have?
Sue Bowles (11:29):
I am in recovery from OSFED which stands for
other specified feeding andeating disorder. And it's
actually cool because they wererecording this is this week is
National Eating DisorderAwareness Week, by the time this
airs, it'll be passed. But yeah,it's it's, I did a presentation
at work this morning abouteating disorders, because it's
all about raising thatawareness. In the eating
(11:50):
disorder. The eating disorder Ihave is not one of the big three
people think about you thinkeating disorder,
Stephanie Olson (11:57):
Anorexia, bulimia, and what I mean, I have
binge eating disorder as well asrecovery from anorexia, bulimia
and binge eating disorder. Yeah,those are the three disorders
kind of newer in the realm ofconversation.
Sue Bowles (12:16):
Yeah, right. Yeah, this is the three big ones. The
handout I put out today, thereare 12 different types of eating
disorders. Now, some of themall. Yeah, and some of them are
not, you know, I think there'sonly five that are in the actual
DSM, DSM manual, or fordiagnoses in the medical field.
(12:38):
But mental health professionalsalso address and acknowledge
these other ones. And there aresome I had not heard of, which
was kind of interesting. But Butanyway, so the eating disorder I
have means that I don't fit allthe diagnostic criteria for any
other eating disorder. So whichadds to the stigma which, right?
(12:58):
Absolutely, because when peopleyou know, my guess is when your
listeners hear the word eatingdisorder, they get an image in
their mind, most likely, eitherskin and bones are really
overweight. And I am neither.
Right, right. And if I don'ttell people that I'm in recovery
from an eating disorder, theywould probably never know.
Because here's the thing,eating, there's no look to an
(13:20):
eating disorder. That's correct.
Eating disorders affect men andwomen, they are the second most
lethal of all mental healthstruggles. Second, only the
opioid addiction. And that isonly a more recent flip in these
eating disorders used to be themost lethal, not only because of
the suicide, but then alsobecause of the damage that is
(13:42):
done to the body. Yeah. Sothere's so much misinformation
out there about eatingdisorders. It's not a diet gone
bad. It's not about reality.
It's not it's not about any ofthat. It's an addiction. And
whatever the issue is behind thescenes, that's how it comes out.
Right. The difference is that inany other addiction, one of the
(14:02):
big keys to recovery is toabstain. Yeah. My brother and my
dad are in recovery fromalcoholism. They are they
abstain from alcohol? Yep.
Stephanie Olson (14:14):
So a whole lot easier to
Sue Bowles (14:17):
an eating disorder.
You can abstain from food if youwant to live
Stephanie Olson (14:20):
No, no.
Sue Bowles (14:23):
So you have to figure out how to have a good
relationship with food or foodis no longer the enemy, which
was when I first heard thatphrase relationship with food.
I'm like, what? And it makessense now. Yeah. Because if you
if you are if you have angsttowards eating, you have angst
(14:44):
in that relationship. That'sright.
Stephanie Olson (14:46):
Wow. So that's, that's really good. I I think
people really struggle with thata lot. And I think eating
disorders are such an epidemic.
You And, and for that veryreason. And I think about all
that has happened recently withthe pandemic and, you know,
people who are having disorderedeating throughout that with all
(15:11):
of the anything in the mentalhealth arena, it's just been a
very, very difficult strugglefor people.
Sue Bowles (15:22):
It has, if you think if one good thing has come from
the pandemic, it's that mentalhealth and eating disorders have
come to the forefront. Yeah,yeah, people were talking about
it more mental is schoolcounselors are more aware of it.
Parents are more aware of it.
Even the medical field isfinally more aware of it.
Because I say that because BMIis not
Stephanie Olson (15:43):
No kidding.
Thank you.
Sue Bowles (15:48):
BMI does not take into consideration. muscle mass,
nope. Which is more dense andheavier than fat. That's right.
So if your doctors only lookingat your weight compared to your
height, there, and they thinkyou're overweight, which in my
case, my BMI with my doctor willtell her I'm overweight, and I'm
(16:11):
not overweight. Yeah, you know.
And then I tell the story, it'skind of funny, because my last
checkup last year, I sawaccident, she's looking flew my
chart. And I hear like, I knowwhat she's looking at, because I
know what's going on here. Andshe looks at me, she says, we
didn't get any shorter. So Ireally knew what she was talking
about. And I'm like, don't makeme educated. I'm not going to
(16:34):
like it. My How am I and musclemass to you? Yeah. At that point
in time, I had not. It kind ofconcerned me a little bit like I
never suddenly you put on therewasn't much but what happened.
And I was talking to mydietician about it. She said,
Sue, you just finished physicaltherapy, you put on muscle, and
(16:56):
you're continuing to do stuff athome, you gain muscle mass. I'm
like, That explains why I don'tfeel any difference. That feels
right. any different at all?
There was no issue with clothes,there's no issue with anything.
And like, but what is it? What'sgoing on here? And it was funny
(17:17):
that my doctor really went firststarted looking at them, like,
just don't go there. Just don'tgo there. Because if you do, I
will follow up and you're not?
Stephanie Olson (17:28):
Well, I think that there is so much
misinformation about weightloss, there is so much
misinformation about what peopleshould weigh or BMI. And I
think, you know, there's Iliterally just saw something
where somebody claimed to lose,like 10 pounds in three hours.
(17:53):
Come on. Okay, come on. Yeah, 10pounds in three hours. And first
Sue Bowles (17:58):
First of all, I call bull, second of all I have a
real concern for your health.
Stephanie Olson (18:02):
Well, and it's so frustrating to see that
because there are so manyparticularly young people who
are falling into this, this ideathat that skinny equals optimal
health. And just like you said,when it comes to true health,
(18:24):
you cannot look at a person andsay, Wow, they're they're
completely healthy.
Sue Bowles (18:30):
Yeah, that's it. One of the things that I when I
first went into recovery, sortof working with a dietitian, I
had to learn how to eat. Yes.
And that sounds right. Soundsreally weird. But but here's the
thing. fats, proteins and carbsare all needed on a daily
consistent, balanced way.
(18:52):
Correct. Fats are the only thingthat protects your bodily
organs, your vital organs andgive you a sensation of being
full. Yeah, carbs are the onlything that gives you brain
energy. And protein is the onlything that rebuilds your
strength. Yeah, so if our bodyis designed to need all three,
and diets are based onrestriction, why are we going
(19:16):
against how our body isdesigned? That's right. So in my
case, because I had cheated mybody of the proper nutrition for
so many years, when I when I sayI had the real I hadn't learned
how to eat. First of all, I hadhad to get used to listening to
my hunger cues, because I hadlearned to shut them down by
(19:36):
snacking. So because if I againif I wasn't hungry, I didn't
have to feel right think anddeal. So So with all that, I my
homework my first week, mydietician was just when you're
hungry, eat. I just had the wordyes. Oh my gosh, was it ever and
(19:57):
then we moved into justbreakfast Just work on your
exchanges for breakfast. Andwhat I mean by exchanges is my
meal plans based on the diabeticexchange system, were based on
the serving size of a foodlabel, you will see, say the
serving sizes, the half cup,half cups going to have so many
micro grams of fats, carbs andproteins in it. And then you
(20:19):
take that, and then figure outhow many grams of that equal one
serving of something, you know,and you kind of figure it out.
So, and that was reallyfrustrating. A really confusing
for a long time. Yeah. Becauseall of the eating disorder
whispers of You're so stupid.
Why can't you figure this out?
Mm hmm. Really, really loud?
Yeah. And we talked a whole lotabout that. But I still remember
(20:40):
the day when my brain started toclear, my dietician kept telling
me you are not your eatingdisorder. That isn't that's your
eating disorder voice. That'snot you. And because the longer
you are in in disorder, andaddiction, you become enmeshed
with it. And you can't tellyourself from somebody else. It
(21:01):
just is. And that was such acritical point. So I remember
over a couple months, but Iremember being in the little
kitchenette at work. And one ofmy red flags is if I get
overwhelmed food choices, I justshut the refrigerator door, say
screw it, I'll just go snack. Sothat was happening at work. But
(21:22):
one of the things as I startedrealizing that I'm not my eating
disorder, and you may befamiliar with it, a lot of
people find it beneficial andhelpful to give their eating
disorder a name. I named myeating disorder, Ed. So I
literally talk out loud at notloud for Buddy the office to
hear me to hear. And what andthis particular day, I shut the
(21:45):
door. I was getting ready tojust skip it. And I'm like, ED
Shut up. That's all I anythinghappened. I would just like edge
Shut up. Yeah, just yeah, that'sall I would say. And then the
key to it, though, is doing theexact opposite of what your
eating disorder voice is tellingyou to do. Yeah. So Ed was
telling me is too much chemicfood choice, you can decide you
(22:07):
want to get yogurt cheeserefrigerator of your meal,
right? You know, I had a 5050chance and I got it wrong.
Instead of that it was okay, No,shut up. And I'm going to make
myself do this. Right. So whatended up happening though, is
that this particular day, I wasstarting to, you know, my body
was starting to recover a littlebit. And I remember how clear my
(22:29):
brain was, it literally fell onmy brain was split. Because I
was like, my brain feels moreclear. And I didn't understand I
didn't, I didn't realize orunderstand the eating disorder
fog. Because again, my brain waswas not getting the nutrients it
needed. Now, what that meant,what my body had to learn over
(22:50):
time, was that I would take careof this. So for a while there,
it was getting the good stuff,and it's kind of hoarding it.
And I noticed that and I, again,talk that through as your
dietitian, because, you know,every little thing when you're
trying to fight this thing, youtalk about every little Yes,
yeah. So we talked about that.
And she said, Sue, just keepdoing what you're doing, as your
(23:13):
body learns that it can trustyou, and that you are going to
give it what it needs on aconsistent, balanced basis,
it will level out. Because mybody knows, and I've learned to
listen to it. And I've learnedto respond to it. Right. So even
though there was that initial,you know, my body was reacting
(23:34):
and hoarding. And I felt that Ikind of had that bloated
feeling. That dissipated as mybody realized that there was a
new note and there was a newnormal, and it could trust in
that normal.
Stephanie Olson (23:48):
And that takes a long time to get to that
adjustment. Oh, yeah. So Sue,how, how did you learn because
sometimes people don't evenrecognize that their eating is
disordered. Especially when youknow, it's not your typical
anorexia or bulimia. How did youdiscover that? Or, and maybe you
(24:13):
already knew the whole time, buthow did you discover that you
were struggling with an eatingdisorder?
Sue Bowles (24:20):
I kind of I knew but I didn't know. Yeah. And what I
mean by that was, I would callit indirect sick tendencies, or
odd eating behaviors. But Inever called it an eating
disorder. Because to me, thatwas my it was really bad. Yeah,
control because eating disordersare not controlled. Equals ly.
(24:43):
So what happened for me was thatI had for a number of years
there. People weren't sure whatto say. They were. I remember
going to my pastor's house forChristmas Eve. Dinner after
Christmas Eve service, myroommate and I and they were
serving food. And I rememberedthey were certainly fixing my
plate. But they looked at myroommate to see if it was if it
(25:06):
was the serving size was okay.
Really? Yeah. But no one. No oneever said it's, too I'm
concerned because I see thesebehaviors. Hmm, no one. But they
all doing? Yeah. But so what?
What happened? What what endedup happening though is that even
though I have that situationwhere people knew and didn't
(25:29):
know what to say, I What kept itfor me was I had some speaking
in my life. And what, what Ihave learned and when I speak, I
say this is that you have to bebold, to express the concern.
But there are so many cautionsin what and how and when. And
(25:55):
the first caution is, Are youthe right person? Because, as
with any addiction, there are alot of defenses, right? The
person involved is living in alie. So therefore, they're
light. But the lie is truth tothem. Right? Right. Right, you
are coming up against someonewho can't tell truth from lie.
(26:18):
And they've been duped, andthey've come in been enmeshed in
it. And it's not their fault.
It's the nature of theaddiction. That's right. So you
have to be the right person.
First of all, not everyone isgoing to take that expression of
concern. I'm not sayingconfrontation, the expression of
concern from everybody. Right,you have to be the right person.
(26:43):
So if you are that right for it,yeah,
Stephanie Olson (26:45):
yeah. Well, I'm just curious, because, and
you're going to answer my secondquestion. So I'm just gonna let
you talk on that one. But how doyou know if you're not the right
person?
Sue Bowles (26:57):
That's a great question. I think you have in
your gut, you know, if you canhave those deep level
conversations, if yourrelationship is more of that as
an acquaintance, or a funless,go out kind of friend. And more,
for lack of better phrase.
surfacey. Yeah. And, you know,good for companionship and
(27:20):
laugh. Right, right. Hang out,let's go have coffee, but we're
not really having. You haven'thad a real heart to heart. Yeah,
your other person is not openingup to you, and you don't feel
safe opening up to them. Right.
That's, that's your, there yougo right there. If you have if
the foundation of therelationship is such that it's
(27:40):
more of social, or more of aconvenience, and not in it for
the long haul. If you're in yourknees, I'm in there with you.
Yeah, that's how you know,because, you know, I could have
people say something to me. AndI'd be like, you don't? You
don't know me? Right? Right. Youknow about me, but you don't
(28:02):
know me. So I think I think youwhen I think you after evaluate
how what's the depth and levelof the relationship of what you
feel with that person? Right.
And they feel with you? Becauseif you likewise, don't feel safe
or comfortable opening up tothat person? Yeah, they're not
gonna take it from you. Yeah,exactly. Exactly. You're gonna
(28:25):
be another person saying thesame old thing that everybody
else has said. And you don'tknow them.
Stephanie Olson (28:33):
And I would add to because I think for some
reason with weight, I don't knowif we do this with anything
else. But I would add, ifyou're, or if you have somebody
in your life that is houndingyou on, you know, call, either
I'm going to call them names, sothey stop eating, or I'm going
(28:54):
to call them names. So they keepeating or whatever it may be.
That just doesn't
Sue Bowles (28:59):
know. Oh,
Stephanie Olson (29:01):
so if that's the part that would not be a
safe person, obviously, to thatconversation.
Sue Bowles (29:08):
You are expressing literally a concern over the
life or death of that person.
Yeah. You are loving them enoughto put the relationship on the
line. Yeah, yeah. But you can'tyou don't know. By evaluating
the depths of the relationship.
Stephanie Olson (29:25):
That's good.
Okay, then I interrupted you. Sowhat is that? What does that
look like? What are you saying?
So go ahead.
Sue Bowles (29:32):
So but so when you know, you're the right person?
Yeah. When you address it andhow you address it makes a world
of difference. Becauseterminology is everything to
someone in it caught up in aneating disorder. Yeah. Because
if you look at them and say,Man, you really lost a lot of
weight. That's validation tothem that hey,
Stephanie Olson (29:54):
thank you.
Sue Bowles (29:55):
Yeah, I have no reason to change my life. That's
right. That's right. Compared toI'm, I'm concerned for you,
because I've noticed afterdinner, you tend to isolate and
go to your room by yourself eachnight. And I missed that
interaction. That's isn't that awhole different message?
Stephanie Olson (30:15):
Yeah. And we're not even talking about weight.
We're not even talking aboutfood. Yes, you're talking.
Sue Bowles (30:21):
You're talking about observale behavior.
Stephanie Olson (30:23):
That's great.
Sue Bowles (30:24):
Or, you know, I've noticed in our interactions,
that there seems to me thereseems to be some tension that
isn't usually there. Right. Canwe talk about that? I don't like
that. I value our relationshiptoo much to let that go. I love
that, you know, coming at itfrom the if statement, the basic
(30:45):
communication thing, not you.
Because if I look at you say,Stephanie, you Yeah, what's your
reaction? Your walls? Walls?
Right, exactly. But if I sayit's definitely I'm concerned,
concerned, when I see this notI'm concerned for you. Because
again, it's you. Yeah, but yeah,take take the person out of
that. And focus on the behavior.
Yeah. Because the observablebehavior can't be denied. Right.
(31:09):
Now, they may argueinterpretation. That's a
different ballgame. But youalready have common ground that
the behavior is not beingargued. They're not denying that
the isolate, they're denying whythey isolate, yes, different
things. You look for the commonground first, and then you build
(31:30):
from there.
Stephanie Olson (31:33):
That's good. So how long did it take you to get
from eating disorder to okay,I'm, I'm in recovery. I'm, I'm
doing much better.
Sue Bowles (31:45):
I started with a dietitian in July of 2016. So I
am just coming into six years.
So I would say that I started myrecovery journey, and I was in
counseling long before then I'mstill in counseling is still the
same kind of counseling
Stephanie Olson (32:01):
Counseling's a good thing.
Sue Bowles (32:02):
Oh, my gosh. Holy smokes, I am so blessed that my
gosh, a first week in April, weare going to celebrate
Stephanie Olson (32:12):
14 years. Oh, wow. That's great.
Sue Bowles (32:15):
And I I have gone places. I didn't know I needed
to go. And I definitely neededto go there. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my
gosh. Yeah. And she specializesin eating disorders, which makes
lousy. Yes, yeah. And griefs, weget through it get through lose
a mom. And so I have thecriminal, the crown. So yeah.
(32:35):
But that in terms of when Ientered recovery, I started I
went, I started meeting with adietician and went back to get
my meal plan. To me that is whenI started recovering. Now,
recovery doesn't mean it's done.
No. Recovery doesn't mean you'vearrived. No, because I haven't
arrived, right. But that's theday that I drew the line in the
(32:57):
sand, and did a 180 and startedto get out of the holes and I
dug, therefore I was inrecovery.
Stephanie Olson (33:06):
That's a beautiful way to say that. I
absolutely love that. Becausewe're going to have days that
are more difficult, or we'regoing to have days where it
seems you know, it's it's yourcomfort or your go to and it's
it's overcoming those things. Imean, that's what resilience is
all about. That's, that's I lovehow you said that. That's
(33:28):
amazing.
Sue Bowles (33:29):
And to that point, you I just met my dietician. Two
days ago, I met my counselorlast night in I've had some of
those off days over the lastcouple of weeks. I'm aware of
them, right, I'm doing what Ican to fight them. And part of
that is telling my dieticianabout it. So we could kind of
work through it. And we came upwith a plan and that I told her
(33:51):
that that takes the pressure offjust already knowing that takes
the pressure off. So now I cancome home and execute it after I
get off work. But in the courseof that conversation, I had not
made this connection. Andpartners like you've been doing
this long enough why he's makingthat connection. And like, you
know what, Ed Shut up. That'smy, that's my eating disorder
(34:15):
voice blaming and shaming me.
That's right. And instead ofbuying into that, it's simply
okay. I have now learned thatthe work my counselor and I are
doing on some unexpectedtriggers is stirring a lot
emotionally that I may notrealize on the outside, but
that's what's happening. Andthat's why suddenly my red flags
are coming up why I'm seeingthis happen or that happened.
(34:39):
And that also was veryenlightening for me and help me
take myself off the hook. Yeah,because then I understood. I
didn't have to get mad at myselfbecause I understood it was the
eating disorder raising its uglyhead in relation to emotions, in
trouble dealing with US deja vuway back when to call her. So
(35:02):
yes, it can still come up andtry to sneak up from behind. But
when you have that recoveryteam, and when you have some
some distance behind you, youare more as more attuned to the
tactics. And then you realizeyou really are not creative, are
you?
Stephanie Olson (35:24):
You keep telling me the same stuff.
Sue Bowles (35:26):
Oh, I'm gonna buy into that this time. You might
have duped me for a second. Butreally? Yeah, well, really
boring.
Stephanie Olson (35:36):
Love that.
Well, and it's all about feelingthose feelings, those emotions
and being willing to sit withthose. And that's uncomfortable.
That is not fun. Yeah.
Sue Bowles (35:50):
Because when you're active in your disorder,
feelings are the enemy. Yeah.
And therefore food is the enemy.
Yeah. And you're, it's hardenough to have to deal with the
food. Yeah. But when you aredealing with the cause of the
issues behind the food being theissue, right, it is a double
(36:11):
edged sword. I took a year offfrom writing my book when I
first went into recovery,because that was also the time I
was finally dealing with therape over four decades after the
event. I didn't, it was all Icould do to focus on getting
through the day. So what and asI look back, that was one of the
(36:32):
best things of self care I coulddo is just put the book on the
shelf, and just do the hard workof healing. Knowing the book
would take care of itself whenit was time. That actually was
not a disappointment. That wasthe best thing I could have done
for me. And for the finishedproduct.
Stephanie Olson (36:51):
Good for you.
So what a fabulous segue, whydon't you tell us about your
book?
Sue Bowles (36:58):
That was not planned for sure. I do have one nearby.
So this much I know the spacebetween. It's on Amazon and
Kindle. And the concept in thebook is my story. The first half
of the book, that limb backup.
The concept as a title isn'tthis much I know is my story.
All of us have a story. Yeah,your life is your story. That is
(37:22):
the one thing no one can evertake from me. The second half
the space between talks aboutthe healing journey of going
from having wounds, to havingscars. And that process. I go
into much more detail about anumber of different things that
(37:45):
happened when I was growing upand through college and after
college. All of that commonthread of woundedness. And how
kept piling on and piling on andpiling online wasn't digging
out. And then the second halftalks about the healing journey.
My healing started in 2014. Sixonly been seven and a half
years. Guess going on eightyears now. Yeah. That was the
(38:07):
year we're dealing with therape. But it not oddly enough,
for coincidentally enough wassort of looking for purposefully
enough. There was a retreat thatI went on in the fall. Earlier
(38:27):
in the year, there was a moviethat came out about rich
Mullins, he's a big Christianmusician. 97 is big song is
awesome God, and they did amovie about his life. And the
first 20 minutes were reallyhard watch for me for me because
they hit home. Wow. But again, Iwasn't in recovery. And I didn't
I didn't want to be found outbecause I had put on all these
(38:50):
masks that Suze Okay, yeah, soeven when I'm wiping tears, I'm
like doing this doesn't mattermy Yeah. You know, if you know
that thing. So anyway, so in thefall, they did a retreat, to
carry on the conversation aboutthe themes. And I was supposed
to go to Nashville to seefriends and I just kind of kept
(39:10):
feeling that hard time. And Iwas going this way with that.
And I was I was in a Push MePull You situation. And I
finally gave him up for theretreat. With the retreat, they
opened up a Facebook room acouple of weeks before the
retreat. So anyone is going onretreat and get to know each
other. This first year therewere 50 of us. We were all total
(39:33):
strangers. The only thing we hadin common was this movie. Wow.
They asked us to share ourstory. Oh my god, I had never
shared my story publicly. Neverabout the rape or anything. So I
lurked and I stopped everyeverybody else out three days.
commented encouraged likes thatkind of thing. But wasn't
(39:56):
telling mine morning. You knowhow Get the heart just pounding
out of your chest, you start tosweat that I was like, Okay,
it's my turn it literally put ona pot of coffee. And for the
first 30 minutes, typed out mystory for the first time ever, I
was shaking. I was crying. I wasa mess. It was literally four
o'clock in the morning. And Ihit post, and I expected to be
(40:19):
trashed the rest. Because that'sall I had ever known. So why
would I expect anything else? Weare now seven and a half years
past that first post. I have yetto hear one negative comment.
Not one. Instead it was You'reso brave. Ugh, I appreciate you.
(40:39):
Wow, thank you for sharing. AllI want to meet you all these
things that started my healingjourney because I had a place
where it was okay to not haveOkay, yeah. That weekend, I went
into that we can call myself theholy exception. I was imploding
again. I was not doing well. Iwas starting down the spiral.
And I had convinced myself I hadbought into the lie. Yeah,
(41:04):
right. I was a waste of space. Icalled myself the holy exception
that everything in the Bible wasgood enough for everybody else.
But me. That was too screwed uptoo far gone waste of space.
Over the course of the weekend,I left there saying for the
first time and starting tobelieve that Jesus Christ loves
(41:26):
me and not only loves me, heactually likes me. Yeah. Then
he's absolutely crazy about me.
Stephanie Olson (41:34):
And he knows everything about you and still
likes you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Sue Bowles (41:39):
So that started it.
And a staff member has sincethen, that that first retreat
was like a Hail Mary for me. WasI lovable? Could could God
really love me? Could his kidslove me? And I found a place
where it's true. And that nowhas now is now called Walking
Stick retreats. We have aretreat twice a year, it is open
to anybody. Our next one. Idon't know when this is going to
(42:03):
air. Our next one is the lastweekend of April, April 29.
Through may 1.
Stephanie Olson (42:08):
It should. It should err in April, beginning
of April. I think so yeah.
Sue Bowles (42:13):
So then you then go to walkingstick retreats.org.
Then we got something coming upfrom the fall. So it's open to
anybody it is a safe place whereyou can just be you can either
fight with God, you can wrestleyou can, you know, have
questions, you can just kind ofsoak it all in whatever you need
to do for you on your journey.
This so that started things thefirst year, that's what we'll go
(42:38):
into more of this whole into thebook. This is all in the book.
That first year, I had to own mystory. And this gets in that
whole healing dream. Because Iwas in denial about my story I
didn't like like, yeah, did mystory. Right? So I didn't want
to tell him by. Right. Sobecause when if I tell him about
him if I had known therefore itreally happens. All right. Yeah.
(43:00):
Right. So anyway, so the firstyear I opened my story, and
there were a lot of tears aroundthat. Yeah, when I call when I
now call my sacred moment ofrelease the next year. And this
is an important part that Ithink people don't think about
or gloss over. I had to grievemy story. Yes. My story has a
lot of loss in it. Yes. And thesacred moment of release. The
(43:27):
second year resulted in me heavecrying for about 15 minutes.
Yeah, that heart, and yet notone negative comment. Someone
actually came over to me put hisarm around me. And I later found
out prayed God, whatever it is,put it on me. That's the
(43:48):
community that is involved inthis, this that's the caliber of
love these things. Wow. Thethird year is where things
started turn for me. This iswhen I started writing the book.
And it was I left the retreatwith the morsel that I am
valuable to God. When I dared tobelieve that I met. Yeah, that's
(44:09):
when things started to change.
That's when everything elsestarted happening. And it has
just been a continual growthprocess since I always get some
kind of morsel. And it's it'sthere's nothing special or
magical about retreat. And I'm,I'm try very hard to make this
(44:33):
point. What happens at theretreat, is that the staff gets
out of the way and lets the HolySpirit do his job. Yep. That's
what happens there. It isdifferent for each person. For
me, when I came, I was sobroken. I didn't even say Humpty
Dumpty was going to have enoughYeah, put it back together
again. Yeah, I was heading downthe implosion throat. I was
(44:56):
probably going to be headingtowards self harm and very near
future. So there's nothingmagical about the retreat. It is
simply the power of love. So allthat is in the book and a whole
lot more. book came outSeptember 2019. In November
2020. At one second placenonfiction at the faith and
(45:19):
fellowship Book Festival.
Stephanie Olson (45:21):
That's fabulous. Congratulations.
Sue Bowles (45:24):
Yeah, I was excited.
It's my first book. It's selfpublished. And it one won an
award. So for me, that wasvalidation that I'm doing some
governance we do. Yeah. Oh, Ilove that. I have concepts for
books two, three, and four. I'mjust starting on number two
right now. Yeah. And that'sawesome. It's good. It's, it's,
if my story can help somebodyelse I want to share that is
(45:48):
that okay, bottom line. I usedto be really hacked off with
God. Yeah, why did any of thesethings that have happened in my
life are a lot for anybody tohandle. And all of it has
happened in my life. I washacked off why? You must hate
me. Yeah. Why did you let thishappen. And you know, I'm not
(46:10):
getting into Theology at all.
But what I have learned and cometo appreciate is that I now have
opportunity. And I don't want tosay, right, but I have
authenticity, to relate to alarge number of people. And I
(46:35):
wish it was, I wish thereweren't those people out there
that need to relate to thatright? Time, I'm thankful for
what God has done in my life, toallow me to be one of those
people that can now relate toothers. My business name is my
step ahead. The concept is thatyou only have to be a step ahead
(46:56):
to help the person behind you.
Oh, I like we do like to thinkwe have to have it all figured
out. We have nothing to offerbecause I'm a screw up or I
don't I don't have this littlecorner of my life, you know, on
a row or whatever. And peopleare gonna like me or accept me
or feeling qualified orwhatever. That's a bunch of
baloney. Yeah, you only have tobe a step ahead. You have walked
a journey, that someone else isalso walking. And you can help
(47:21):
that person with the knowledgeyou have, no matter how big or
small that knowledge is. Yeah.
So while I'm still reaching outfor help, to help me in my next
step, I want to reach back andhelp the person who's behind me,
right? Yeah, there we have awhole human chain of support.
(47:43):
That's what my step ahead isabout. That is what Super Bowls
coaching is all about, ishelping people take that next
step. That's what it that's whatmy life is about. And I it's an
honor and a privilege whensomeone lets me into their life
to help them take that nextstep. And I don't take that
lightly. Yeah.
Stephanie Olson (48:03):
Yeah, that is beautiful. So so how can people
get in touch with you? How canpeople utilize you as a coach
and find your book?
Sue Bowles (48:14):
Yes, best place is Sibyls dot coms, BoWLes, there's
a link to the book there, youcan send me a message through
the website. And I'll be intouch within 24 hours. And we
can get to work if if there's apodcast, someone's wanting me to
speak on or conference or I doall that. But also really just
enjoy the one on one or groupcoaching. And in just real
(48:38):
quickly, coaching and counselingare two different things, right?
Counseling, deals with the pastto bring you to the present.
Coaching is what I do. Andcoaching takes you in the
present and helps you get whereyou want to go. Right. I want to
make sure I'm clear that thatnot that delineation. Yeah, that
doesn't mean you can't contactme. In the course of our
(48:59):
conversations. If I feel there'ssomething that would be better
served in counseling, we'll talkabout that. Right? Right doesn't
mean that doesn't mean I can'thelp you in coaching at the same
time. I have clients who areseeing a counselor and we still
coach. Yeah, because we'reworking on two different things.
Sure. Absolutely. And that's myobligation and commitment to my
clients. That's what I'm tryingto do is know where those
(49:21):
boundaries are. So don't makethat decision for yourself.
Because most likely there'ssomething lying in your head
anyway because they don't wantyou to change. That's right. So
it's a privilege. I I'm honoredto be able to do that. I also
have just a little tip sheet Ican give as called five tips to
being unshakable. Oh great. Andso so so if anyone wants to sign
(49:42):
up for that, they can go to thewebsite and sign up for that as
well. I get that too. Oh, I
Stephanie Olson (49:46):
love that. I love that you are just an
inspiration. I love that you areusing your story to help other
people. And that is really whatit's all about. You are doing
some amazing things and, and youare very courageous. I think
that that is something that isevident and what a blessing that
(50:10):
is to thanks. Yeah, thank you.
Okay, so final question. Justlike does resilience mean to
you?
Sue Bowles (50:19):
Resilience means defining the events and not
letting them define you.
Stephanie Olson (50:26):
Hmm. Oh, I like that. That's good. That's good.
Well, this has been a pleasure,you and I, and I hope we can
stay connected for sure. What agreat work you're doing and I am
getting your book. Soabsolutely. No, thank you. And
(50:47):
thank you for being on the show.
And everybody reached out tosue, buy her book and utilize
that to go that next step inyour journey and I thank you for
joining us on resilience in lifeleadership. We'll see you next
time. Thank you for listening.
(51:08):
Please share with anyone youthink will benefit from this
podcast.
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