June 29, 2025 • 12 mins
Diane Wehrle CEO at Rendle Intelligence and Insights joins Simon for their monthly chat about footfall trends. The retail landscape continues to face challenges as May's data reveals decreased footfall and consumer spending across most sectors, with fashion retail experiencing a particularly steep decline of 3.6% year-on-year.
• High street footfall down 2.5% with only retail parks showing a minimal increase of 0.2%
• Overall spending in high streets down 1.8% year-on-year, worse than last May's 0.6% decline
• Non-food retail sales dropped by 1.1% despite overall sales increasing by 1%
• Fashion retail continues its two-year decline, dropping 3.6% in May
• General retail, previously performing well, has now slipped to 0.7% down
• Post-pandemic work patterns have fundamentally changed clothing needs with many consumers now maintaining just one wardrobe instead of separate work and casual wardrobes
• Clothing and footwear experiencing deflation of 0.3% due to heavy discounting
• Economic uncertainty and global geopolitical tensions contributing to consumer caution
• Retailers shifting focus to increasing average transaction value rather than acquiring new customers
• Creative marketing approaches including collaborations and limited editions becoming more important for driving sales
#theproductivityexperts
Register for the 2025 Productivity Forum
Find us in the Top 50 Productivity Podcasts
Connect to Simon on LinkedIn
Follow ReThink on LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rethink Productivity podcast.
I'm delighted to welcome backour returning guest.
I'm World CEO and founder atRendell Intelligence and
Insights and we are back talkingabout May, june, may, may.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two bank holidays in May.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You can tell I'm still on holiday.
Yeah, lucky thing I know I justreturned, so hence my my brain
mash.
So yeah, two bank holidays um.
I was trying to think what theweather was like.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It was all right, it's quite good.
Yeah, not bad at all not as hotas it is currently when we're
doing this recording, but it wasvery passable no, um, yeah,
things were kind of relativelylevel from the month before,
weren't they?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
and we had that whole easter hiccup, didn't we, of
trying to plot easter againsteaster and matching up the right
months.
So two bank holidays um may isthat kind of time, I suppose,
when people are starting tothink about if they put summer
holiday, getting ready for it,all that kind of stuff.
We had some relatively okayweather, as we've said, so hit
(01:02):
us with the numbers then hit youwith the bad news.
I'm afraid I had a funnyfeeling.
You might be saying that oh, Ido wish I had something positive
to tell you we will, we willhave, we will have upbeat like,
like we said, kind of off air.
Sometimes it has to go down tocome up on it.
So we will have positive onesin the future.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So the data for footfall and spend is out, as is
inflation.
We're still waiting for thegovernment, the ons, retail
sales, but we do have retailsales from brc, so hitting on
footfall.
So brc footfall, unfortunately,was down in the high street by
two and a half percent.
The only channel that was upwas retail parts and that was
(01:44):
only up by 0.2%.
So overall footfall was down by1.7%, which of course suggests
spending is down and it wasabsolutely down.
Beauclair's data, which tracksspending in high streets, was
down 1.8% year-on-year, which isa worse result than last May
where it was down 0.6%.
(02:05):
Brc, which looks at retailsales across all channels, so
that's store, non-store, in-townand out-of-town.
Overall sales were up 1%, butnon-food sales were down 1.1%.
So people clearly are reinedback spending.
So it's not particularly strongat all um and in fact has
(02:30):
weakened from may last year.
Um, just following through onthe beauclair dates, it looks at
different sectors and there arefive sectors that account for
85 percent of spending in townsand cities, as there's fashion,
food and drink, which ishospitality, general retail,
which was only to the store butnow includes the value retails
(02:51):
like B&M and Home Bargains,grocery, health and beauty, and
fashion really is the poorestperformer of those five.
Spending dropped by 3.6% yearon year, a slight improvement
from May last year when itdropped 4.2%.
But that's two years ofconsecutive decline and
(03:11):
unfortunately general retail wasa bit of a star performer last
May 6.3% up.
This year it's 0.7% down.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
So we're seeing this reigning in of spending all over
really which has been the themeyou've touched on the kind of
last two or three times we spoke, haven't you that uncertainty
in the world and in the uk, theeconomy, that that reigning of
spend?
We've talked historically aboutthe mortgage rate kind of
cliffs that people tend to dropoff, although that softened as
mortgage rates come downslightly, but that that suggests
(03:46):
there's still that generalnervousness of people wanting a
bit of a pot for a rainy day,all those big purchases maybe
put on hold or deferred untilpeople have more certainty.
And that seems just to be thekind of.
I suppose if we were in anaeroplane it would be in the
holding pattern that we'recircling around in.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Absolutely, and I do think that you know, when
there's bad news economicallyand geopolitically which there
is at the moment, as we know,with Ukraine, war and the Middle
East and, for a lot of people,trump in the US people feel
nervous.
That doesn't make them feelconfident to spend because
they're worried generally.
(04:27):
They're feeling pretty downgenerally, so they're much more
cautious.
So that comes through in termsof how and their behavior, in
terms of their own personalbuying habits.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And this general drop-off we've seen, and
consistently in fashion that'snever really bounced back, since
probably lockdown has it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, it's been negative on an annual basis for
the last two years.
Every month it's been droppingaway and you know there's a lot
of factors at play here.
I mean, I'm actually recordingfrom a conference I'm attending
for the Association of Town andCity Management and I've been
speaking to some of thedelegates who are practitioners
(05:09):
in towns and cities and you know, I think the universal opinion
is that, you know, the change inthe way we work and the way we
dress because of the change inthe way we work means that none
of us few of us have twoseparate wardrobes like we used
to.
I remember I had a workwardrobe and a leisure wardrobe.
Now we just have a wardrobe.
(05:30):
So of course, you buy less andif you work at home one or two
days a week, you don't reallyneed decent clothing for that.
You put a pair of joggers or apair of jeans on and you save
your decent wardrobe for whenyou go to the office, so that
there's a whole shift in ourbuying behavior around fashion
now, which means essentially wedon't need to buy as much yeah,
(05:52):
and I suppose as a businesseshave become more relaxed as well
, so that even if we even if wewere going in two days a week, I
wouldn't necessarily be workingwearing a shirt and tie or
formal clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Most businesses operate semi-casual trainers,
smart or widely accepted jeans,casual shirts.
So that's probably helpedharmonize the wardrobe, hasn't
it Absolutely, and that mustthen lead to more discounting.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It does and that's shown through.
Actually today we saw thepublication of the inflation
rate for May and it's sittingaround about where it was in
April.
So it was in April.
It was revised down to 3.5%.
In May it was 3.4%.
But actually in clothing andfootwear there is deflation 0.3
(06:44):
percent.
So actually that that has to bethrough discounting because
clearly the cost of productionhas not reduced.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But you know there is a lot of discounting going on
because things are just notshifting so good if you're
looking to, I suppose, umrebalance your summer wardrobe
with whatever's left and at thetime of recording it's looking
like it's going to be quite nicefor certainly the rest of the
month we're in.
But yeah, bad if you're tryingto protect margin, if you're
(07:12):
trying to move out stock andagain, one of the challenges we
know in, certainly in retail andfashion, especially because of
its seasonality, is clearingdead stock.
It just becomes a challenge tomove.
Every time you touch it itbecomes less valuable.
So from a consumer's point ofview, I suppose there's going to
be some good offers out therein certainly fashion and
(07:34):
footwear, hopefully over thenext month or two.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Absolutely.
I mean, I remember old enoughto remember a series of
recessions when discounting wasjust the norm and essentially it
became practice not to buyanything unless you know you're
getting a discount on it.
And I think I fear that that'sgoing to almost be the case now
really.
And people, you know, with thisholding pattern, if our summers
(07:57):
are short and we're gettingthis, we've got a great state,
great weather at the moment, butif that doesn't last, people
probably won't invest.
They'll say, well, I've managed.
You know, it's only a few moreweeks till the weather changes
and we're into late august andthen we're back to school.
You know?
Um, yeah, it's, it's tough forthe fashion industry.
It always has been.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Seasons are short, but you have all these other
factors that have shifted aroundwhat is impacting fashion now,
and that's really happened fromcovid onwards and has there been
any insight so far this yearinto kind of people's appetite
for booking summer holidaysabroad and and spending there,
or are we seeing that as peoplestill holding back and maybe
(08:38):
looking for late deals?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
well, I think there's a lot of holding back and we're
looking for late.
Does one of the um statementsthat the government put out in
terms of the press releasearound the inflation rate was
the fact that um flights haveactually come down in price.
You know so, and there has beensome reduction of fuel costs as
well, so that will have helpedum.
So, but there's nothing beinghuge and you, there's some
(09:02):
offers.
If you look on all theadvertising and marketing from
all the leading travel companies, they're offering deals still,
you know yeah, so again allplays into the consumer's hands.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
As you said, there's so many certainty in the world,
certainly with the the stuff interms of the unrest.
Maybe that impacts starts toimpact oil prices, which sees
things go up.
So I am not going to promisegood news next month.
Um, we'll see if we're still inour holding pattern and at some
point given position topermission to land and and we
(09:34):
can.
We can all cheer and start tosee that upward movement.
But it seems like we've kind ofgot stuck in this.
I won't say it's a rut, butwe've got stuck in this cycle of
a bit of a standoff of peoplewanting to preserve money
because they're unsure.
But then clearly that has animpact when you start to see the
figures.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, and I think in terms, yeah, what this means for
retail and retailers and whatyou know.
What are the actionableinsights these?
These insights are what you cando with them, really, but it's
about trying to find a differentway to market, not just on
price.
It's got to be something elseout there that will try and
tempt and tease consumers topart with their cash, whether
(10:16):
that's creating greatercommunity, greater spirit.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Um, you know something to try and turn that
coin over and prompt people tobuy yeah, and we've seen you
know I think we talked aboutbefore collaboration seems to be
coming more to the front,certainly in fashion.
You know people like adidasdoing stuff with liberty and
limited editions and, yeah, youknow influencers and all the
viral stuff that goes.
(10:39):
So I'm not saying that's easyor cheap, but that that all
starts to to play through.
And, again, as we've talkedbefore, sometimes it's the focus
is on selling more to the samepeople, because getting new
customers is really tricky.
But driving average transactionvalue atv is the, I think, the
smart play at the moment andseeing lots of retailers we're
(11:00):
working with making that theiralmost number one kpi of how we
drive in atv absolutely, andit's interesting because
actually the atv in fashiondropped by 1.8 percent so but
the overall sales dropped by3.6%.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So actually there's a drop in customers and
transactions.
They're making Food and drink.
Actually, hospitality was theonly one of the five sectors
where there's an increase in ATV.
They also had a reduction incustomers' spending and the
number of transactions they made, but the ATV of those who did
went up.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, that makes sense, and I think there's been
some stealth price increases onthe back of the ni stuff in some
of those industries as well.
That have probably started tocome through yeah, yes brilliant
, always great to talk.
We will, I promise we will atsome point I don't know which
year, I don't know which monthhave positive news.
But I think you know,understanding, understanding the
numbers, is of great valuebecause then you can do
(12:00):
something with it, like you say,in terms of the actionable
insights.
So always a pleasure die.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Appreciate your time oh, my pleasure, simon.
Welcome to the Rethink Productivity podcast.
I'm delighted to welcome backour returning guest.
I'm World CEO and founder atRendell Intelligence and
Insights and we are back talkingabout May, june, may, may.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two bank holidays in May.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You can tell I'm still on holiday.
Yeah, lucky thing I know I justreturned, so hence my my brain
mash.
So yeah, two bank holidays um.
I was trying to think what theweather was like.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It was all right, it's quite good.
Yeah, not bad at all not as hotas it is currently when we're
doing this recording, but it wasvery passable no, um, yeah,
things were kind of relativelylevel from the month before,
weren't they?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
and we had that whole easter hiccup, didn't we, of
trying to plot easter againsteaster and matching up the right
months.
So two bank holidays um may isthat kind of time, I suppose,
when people are starting tothink about if they put summer
holiday, getting ready for it,all that kind of stuff.
We had some relatively okayweather, as we've said, so hit
(01:02):
us with the numbers then hit youwith the bad news.
I'm afraid I had a funnyfeeling.
You might be saying that oh, Ido wish I had something positive
to tell you we will, we willhave, we will have upbeat like,
like we said, kind of off air.
Sometimes it has to go down tocome up on it.
So we will have positive onesin the future.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So the data for footfall and spend is out, as is
inflation.
We're still waiting for thegovernment, the ons, retail
sales, but we do have retailsales from brc, so hitting on
footfall.
So brc footfall, unfortunately,was down in the high street by
two and a half percent.
The only channel that was upwas retail parts and that was
(01:44):
only up by 0.2%.
So overall footfall was down by1.7%, which of course suggests
spending is down and it wasabsolutely down.
Beauclair's data, which tracksspending in high streets, was
down 1.8% year-on-year, which isa worse result than last May
where it was down 0.6%.
(02:05):
Brc, which looks at retailsales across all channels, so
that's store, non-store, in-townand out-of-town.
Overall sales were up 1%, butnon-food sales were down 1.1%.
So people clearly are reinedback spending.
So it's not particularly strongat all um and in fact has
(02:30):
weakened from may last year.
Um, just following through onthe beauclair dates, it looks at
different sectors and there arefive sectors that account for
85 percent of spending in townsand cities, as there's fashion,
food and drink, which ishospitality, general retail,
which was only to the store butnow includes the value retails
(02:51):
like B&M and Home Bargains,grocery, health and beauty, and
fashion really is the poorestperformer of those five.
Spending dropped by 3.6% yearon year, a slight improvement
from May last year when itdropped 4.2%.
But that's two years ofconsecutive decline and
(03:11):
unfortunately general retail wasa bit of a star performer last
May 6.3% up.
This year it's 0.7% down.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
So we're seeing this reigning in of spending all over
really which has been the themeyou've touched on the kind of
last two or three times we spoke, haven't you that uncertainty
in the world and in the uk, theeconomy, that that reigning of
spend?
We've talked historically aboutthe mortgage rate kind of
cliffs that people tend to dropoff, although that softened as
mortgage rates come downslightly, but that that suggests
(03:46):
there's still that generalnervousness of people wanting a
bit of a pot for a rainy day,all those big purchases maybe
put on hold or deferred untilpeople have more certainty.
And that seems just to be thekind of.
I suppose if we were in anaeroplane it would be in the
holding pattern that we'recircling around in.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Absolutely, and I do think that you know, when
there's bad news economicallyand geopolitically which there
is at the moment, as we know,with Ukraine, war and the Middle
East and, for a lot of people,trump in the US people feel
nervous.
That doesn't make them feelconfident to spend because
they're worried generally.
(04:27):
They're feeling pretty downgenerally, so they're much more
cautious.
So that comes through in termsof how and their behavior, in
terms of their own personalbuying habits.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And this general drop-off we've seen, and
consistently in fashion that'snever really bounced back, since
probably lockdown has it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, it's been negative on an annual basis for
the last two years.
Every month it's been droppingaway and you know there's a lot
of factors at play here.
I mean, I'm actually recordingfrom a conference I'm attending
for the Association of Town andCity Management and I've been
speaking to some of thedelegates who are practitioners
(05:09):
in towns and cities and you know, I think the universal opinion
is that, you know, the change inthe way we work and the way we
dress because of the change inthe way we work means that none
of us few of us have twoseparate wardrobes like we used
to.
I remember I had a workwardrobe and a leisure wardrobe.
Now we just have a wardrobe.
(05:30):
So of course, you buy less andif you work at home one or two
days a week, you don't reallyneed decent clothing for that.
You put a pair of joggers or apair of jeans on and you save
your decent wardrobe for whenyou go to the office, so that
there's a whole shift in ourbuying behavior around fashion
now, which means essentially wedon't need to buy as much yeah,
(05:52):
and I suppose as a businesseshave become more relaxed as well
, so that even if we even if wewere going in two days a week, I
wouldn't necessarily be workingwearing a shirt and tie or
formal clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Most businesses operate semi-casual trainers,
smart or widely accepted jeans,casual shirts.
So that's probably helpedharmonize the wardrobe, hasn't
it Absolutely, and that mustthen lead to more discounting.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It does and that's shown through.
Actually today we saw thepublication of the inflation
rate for May and it's sittingaround about where it was in
April.
So it was in April.
It was revised down to 3.5%.
In May it was 3.4%.
But actually in clothing andfootwear there is deflation 0.3
(06:44):
percent.
So actually that that has to bethrough discounting because
clearly the cost of productionhas not reduced.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But you know there is a lot of discounting going on
because things are just notshifting so good if you're
looking to, I suppose, umrebalance your summer wardrobe
with whatever's left and at thetime of recording it's looking
like it's going to be quite nicefor certainly the rest of the
month we're in.
But yeah, bad if you're tryingto protect margin, if you're
(07:12):
trying to move out stock andagain, one of the challenges we
know in, certainly in retail andfashion, especially because of
its seasonality, is clearingdead stock.
It just becomes a challenge tomove.
Every time you touch it itbecomes less valuable.
So from a consumer's point ofview, I suppose there's going to
be some good offers out therein certainly fashion and
(07:34):
footwear, hopefully over thenext month or two.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Absolutely.
I mean, I remember old enoughto remember a series of
recessions when discounting wasjust the norm and essentially it
became practice not to buyanything unless you know you're
getting a discount on it.
And I think I fear that that'sgoing to almost be the case now
really.
And people, you know, with thisholding pattern, if our summers
(07:57):
are short and we're gettingthis, we've got a great state,
great weather at the moment, butif that doesn't last, people
probably won't invest.
They'll say, well, I've managed.
You know, it's only a few moreweeks till the weather changes
and we're into late august andthen we're back to school.
You know?
Um, yeah, it's, it's tough forthe fashion industry.
It always has been.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Seasons are short, but you have all these other
factors that have shifted aroundwhat is impacting fashion now,
and that's really happened fromcovid onwards and has there been
any insight so far this yearinto kind of people's appetite
for booking summer holidaysabroad and and spending there,
or are we seeing that as peoplestill holding back and maybe
(08:38):
looking for late deals?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
well, I think there's a lot of holding back and we're
looking for late.
Does one of the um statementsthat the government put out in
terms of the press releasearound the inflation rate was
the fact that um flights haveactually come down in price.
You know so, and there has beensome reduction of fuel costs as
well, so that will have helpedum.
So, but there's nothing beinghuge and you, there's some
(09:02):
offers.
If you look on all theadvertising and marketing from
all the leading travel companies, they're offering deals still,
you know yeah, so again allplays into the consumer's hands.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
As you said, there's so many certainty in the world,
certainly with the the stuff interms of the unrest.
Maybe that impacts starts toimpact oil prices, which sees
things go up.
So I am not going to promisegood news next month.
Um, we'll see if we're still inour holding pattern and at some
point given position topermission to land and and we
(09:34):
can.
We can all cheer and start tosee that upward movement.
But it seems like we've kind ofgot stuck in this.
I won't say it's a rut, butwe've got stuck in this cycle of
a bit of a standoff of peoplewanting to preserve money
because they're unsure.
But then clearly that has animpact when you start to see the
figures.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, and I think in terms, yeah, what this means for
retail and retailers and whatyou know.
What are the actionableinsights these?
These insights are what you cando with them, really, but it's
about trying to find a differentway to market, not just on
price.
It's got to be something elseout there that will try and
tempt and tease consumers topart with their cash, whether
(10:16):
that's creating greatercommunity, greater spirit.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Um, you know something to try and turn that
coin over and prompt people tobuy yeah, and we've seen you
know I think we talked aboutbefore collaboration seems to be
coming more to the front,certainly in fashion.
You know people like adidasdoing stuff with liberty and
limited editions and, yeah, youknow influencers and all the
viral stuff that goes.
(10:39):
So I'm not saying that's easyor cheap, but that that all
starts to to play through.
And, again, as we've talkedbefore, sometimes it's the focus
is on selling more to the samepeople, because getting new
customers is really tricky.
But driving average transactionvalue atv is the, I think, the
smart play at the moment andseeing lots of retailers we're
(11:00):
working with making that theiralmost number one kpi of how we
drive in atv absolutely, andit's interesting because
actually the atv in fashiondropped by 1.8 percent so but
the overall sales dropped by3.6%.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So actually there's a drop in customers and
transactions.
They're making Food and drink.
Actually, hospitality was theonly one of the five sectors
where there's an increase in ATV.
They also had a reduction incustomers' spending and the
number of transactions they made, but the ATV of those who did
went up.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, that makes sense, and I think there's been
some stealth price increases onthe back of the ni stuff in some
of those industries as well.
That have probably started tocome through yeah, yes brilliant
, always great to talk.
We will, I promise we will atsome point I don't know which
year, I don't know which monthhave positive news.
But I think you know,understanding, understanding the
numbers, is of great valuebecause then you can do
(12:00):
something with it, like you say,in terms of the actionable
insights.
So always a pleasure die.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Appreciate your time oh, my pleasure, simon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.