October 1, 2023 • 19 mins
Diane Wehrle Marketing & Insights Director at MRI-Springboard joins Simon for their monthly chat about footfall trends and shopping behaviours. They cover:
- Footfall trends from July to August 2023
- The divergence of value and volume
- The importance of upselling and converting customers when footfall is flat
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
I am again joined by DayanWhirlmarketing Insights director
, mri Springboard, and we aregoing to look at football from
July to August.
Hi, dayan.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hi Simon.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm good, how are?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
you Good, just recovered from the forum, or
Productivity Forum, last weekwhich you opened for us, so it
was great to have you thereagain.
Another good session and somebrilliant feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, no, it was a great day, really good, great
network opportunities for us.
So not talking about myself,but the papers and the
presentations were great, reallyinspiring.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good, good, and we're just in there in the throes of
getting dates sorted.
So we'll announce that soon andpeople can start signing up.
So let's turn our attentionback to football.
We've talked over the monthsthis year around the kind of
different trends.
I think last month was a recordbreaking month, probably for
all the wrong reasons.
So how have we fared from Julyinto the end of August?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, good news is August was slightly more
positive, which is great.
We returned to positiveterritory in terms of a
month-a-month increase infootball, but it was actually
only very marginal.
It was point two percent up,which doesn't offset a point
three percent drop from June toJuly, which is a real shame.
So at top level, you know it'sclear that the economic
(01:24):
conditions are starting to tellon foot.
For point two percent up onmonth, you know it's not great.
It meant that the annualincrease from 2022 in August was
the lowest.
It's been just 1.9 percenthigher than August 2022 and
whilst some of that is a naturalsort of tailing off of the
(01:44):
exponential rises that we'vebeen having since Covid, it's
also a reflection of thepressures that people are
feeling in terms of householdbudgets.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So that's an area we talked about on a number of
occasions, actually reallystarting to shine through now,
unfortunately, in terms of Isuppose we're out of peak
holiday season so we've paid forour holidays or we've used the
credit we had from lockdown.
We're now in that run clearclocks, change kids back at
school.
We start to see Christmas insupermarkets.
(02:15):
I've seen some this week.
I think it was Marzi Pan andMint Spies Cracky.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
The skipped Halloween then.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, that'll come and go in a flash.
And there's all the stuff youknow on social media about 18
week at 18, fridays to Christmasand a hundred days and all that
stuff.
So it we've turned that cornerinto the, the darker nights and
that means we'll start to putthe heating on and the fires on
(02:42):
because the temperature is goingto drop and that's all kind of.
I suppose those energy pricinghave all been forgotten for a
while while we've been bathingin the sun.
So there's, there's those costpressures.
At the time we're recording, Ithink this week we're expecting
interest rates to go up again,strangely, as inflation has come
down.
So we're heading into that,aren't we?
(03:02):
Plus, like you say, there'sHalloween, there's bonfire night
, which which I think Halloween,probably a bigger event now
than before, and bonfire nightgetting caught up in the whole
animal welfare thing.
So maybe diminishing.
But and then you into the bigevent, are you?
Then you then you're atChristmas and Black Friday and
Cyber Monday, weeks in between.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Absolutely.
I mean, I know, but we'regetting into the Christmas
period because I've and Ipresented this last week, didn't
I?
I'm the first telling of thelike forecast for quarter four
for Christmas in terms offootfall.
So I definitely know thatChristmas is on the horizon, but
most definitely, you know,let's all talk about what's it
going to deliver for Christmasand it's going to be a challenge
(03:45):
.
It really is.
I mean, we're very habitual asconsumers.
We don't change our habits verymuch.
We do what we do every year.
We've been tracking footfall atMRS springboard since 20 or
2002 actually, but publishingdata since 2009 and over that
period we can see a very, veryclear pattern of upwards and
(04:06):
downwards shifts across the yearand it doesn't really change
much.
So when we forecast, what I dois, of course, look at what's
happened in previous years andthen take a judgment what I
think is going to happen thisyear in terms of those monthly
changes, and of course, thatflows through into an annual
change and a change from 2019.
So I won't still own Thunder,but needless to say it, I
(04:26):
haven't been forecasting hugeuplifts, but certainly in terms
of August, that's Really the endof the summer, as you said, and
it's the beginning of autumnand the run-up to Christmas and
we're definitely seeing thisreigning back, this caution.
We're seeing it every August.
Anyway people are more cautiousin August than they were in the
height of the summer, in July,but definitely we're seeing it
(04:49):
and you know inflation has a bigpart to play in that.
The O&S talk about thisdivergence between value and
volume.
You know values are going up ofcourse they are, because
inflation is sitting at 6.8% butpeople are buying fewer items
because they can't afford asmuch and they're trading down as
well.
So volumes are lower and valuesare higher.
(05:13):
So if you just look at values,you're going to get a very
distorted view of retail salesand people go.
All retail sales are holding uponly because of inflation.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, and that's really interesting point.
I know we touched on it lastweek briefly again at the forum.
But in a retail, whatever worldyou work in, if the cost of
goods is going up but youractual three puts going down,
you therefore need less labor todo it because, from a pure
workload point of view, you'rehandling less items, putting
(05:43):
less items out, making lessmeals in restaurants, pulling
less pints of beer in a pub,receiving less goods in a
warehouse, so that I thinkpeople are starting to move away
from that top line sales numberas the kind of mechanism,
because if you just look at thatyou pat yourself on the back.
But actually, as you say, ifyou start to look at that
(06:04):
divergence of value and volume,you can see that everything else
is in decline.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Absolutely, and I think there's two sides of it.
There's that fulfillmentelement, which is absolutely
right.
You know you need less peopleto fulfill less, but at the same
time, because you're puttingmore eggs into a smaller basket,
people are buying less.
So every customer is morevaluable to the retailer because
you need to make sure that thatsale value of every customer
(06:33):
who walks through the door is ashigh as it possibly can be.
So, therefore, what the focusneeds to be is on shop floor
staff, making sure they're doingtheir best job they can
possibly can in converting moresales.
So, you know, upselling wherethey can, converting more where
they can, making that wholecustomer journey install more
(06:53):
appealing, encouraging people tospend more time in store and
therefore they're likely to buymore.
So, and really improve the salevalue of every customer in the
store itself, because clearly,that they're going to need to do
that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And if you don't get it right I suppose you kind of
end up, unfortunately, in theworld of where Wilco ended over
the last couple of weeks.
So you know our thoughts go outto all the colleagues there.
Clearly Poundland B&M have comein and hopefully taken the
colleagues with some of theproperty I think the range we've
said before have purchased thebrand online brand rights.
(07:31):
So tough time for thosecolleagues and everybody in
their office in the kind ofsenior team.
But any thoughts on how we gotto where it got to?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yes, I mean it's as you say.
It's really sad for all thosepeople who work so hard at Wilco
to make it a successful retailoperation and in many ways the
demise of the business isn't areflection on their efforts and
their success.
I mean a lot of the issues thatWilcos were dealing with were
back office infrastructure costissues.
I mean certainly that's whatput pay to the HMV offer for
(08:08):
Wilcos.
The infrastructure costs werejust too high.
They clearly overextended.
There became a much biggerbusiness than perhaps they
should have been.
The store locations they boughtquite a few stores which, as we
know, had work for what was, andalso a very large, often to two
(08:30):
floors in town centers whichare more highly rented, the
retail parks and Simply thesalesman to cover the cost of
those stores.
And when you have four hundredstores and quite a few of those
are very highly rented to largeis it's gonna cause issues in
association with all the otherissues that they had very highly
.
So all of these things cometogether in the perfect stores.
(08:54):
It's never one thing.
And of course, the competitionif they're leaner and meaner and
better doing what they're doingand their costs are lower than
they can survive.
So it's really sad.
I mean they do say clocks toclocks in three generations, but
you hope it's not true and it'salways sad when you lose a
strong brand from the highstreet.
But you know, I had a quicklook last week at all the brands
(09:17):
that I remember back from theseventies and eighties and I'm
really I'm really share my agethat just don't exist anymore.
I mean, do you remember Athena?
I mean Just yes, I love Athena.
You know, that's when we haveposters on our walls and not
that sock shop went, you know,and so it's not that size of
store, because soft shop renttiny stores, you know.
(09:37):
So you know if the listcontinues and they all had that
individual problems.
But I think what it's saying isthat you know the the re, the
bricks and mortar retailindustry, and even just the
retail industry, is an everevolving industry, as all
industries are.
But I think, because it'slargely structured around a
built environment, those shiftstend to be a bit slower than
(10:00):
they are in the digital world.
So you get movers in and outand that takes longer.
So it needs to be a much moreof a dire situation for a retail
operation bricks and mortarretail operation to shut its
doors, then perhaps a digitaloperation and it's more visible.
So, yes, really sad, but we area them or I swim board.
We've seen Online retailers lookup stores.
(10:24):
I mean, we know Amazon, we knowyou know best, you know most
probably most widely regarded,you know example.
But there's Gymshark, of course.
They've bought a flagship storein Regent Street and they're an
online operation.
But there's also smallerretailers that we've been
working with at MRI Spinboardwho have started online and are
moving into stores.
So it's happening and thevacancy rate is dropping.
(10:45):
So that shows businesses areopening.
So it's always there's always alight at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and I think in any industry, even in life, kind
of the strongest survive, don'tthey?
But I suppose what it does meanis somebody unfortunately now
takes the mantle of Will Cozenwill be in the relegations zone,
I suppose, if you like and it'sa football in retail and unneed
to up their game.
And again, as we talked aboutlast week, I think if you're in
(11:12):
one of those businesses that'sconstantly changing, that's
probably difficult but actuallyreassuring that the business is
evolving.
If you're in one of thosebusinesses where you're kind of
standing still, I think that'swhere the warning signs and
things start to creep in,because we've seen what happened
to Will Cozen's House of Fraserin its day, Debenhams, all of
(11:34):
those other ones that we talkedabout Athena, my time, Focus,
the IY I want to work there, doit all.
Fads, Fads.
Get your wallpaper, yes, Getyour wallpaper.
But then some of them come back, don't they?
So yeah, Mike actually has donea good job with Fraser's House
of Fraser.
They've opened a Wimpy,ironically, in Shrewsbury High
(11:56):
Street that seems to be busy.
So there is a bit of a 360 aswell, where some of these brands
come back.
So I suppose you never know.
But the point I wanted tostress was everybody that's in
successful business is inconstant change, because that's
how you survive.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Absolutely it is.
And I suppose because I'vebecause working at MRI
Springboard and I found in thatbusiness and knowing that it's
all about measurement andmeasurements change and seeing
the data flow through every dayin terms of footfall and sales,
and I see it move from day today that's naturally where I
have sympathy with that and it'sjust part of my DNA.
(12:37):
So I see that I think forretailers although retailers
work on short timelines, it'seasy to forget that actually
things are changing for day today and it's those little
incremental changes that make abig difference sometimes, and
understanding the basics isabsolutely critical.
So how many customers are yourstores attracting through the
(13:00):
doors?
What's the norm, what's goodlook like, what's bad, look like
what's consistently good andconsistently bad, and then, same
with conversion, how many ofthose are actually buying
anything and what are theybuying?
And also how that is at storeperforming in relation to where
it's located.
That's really important becauseyou could think that the store
is doing okay, but actually itcould be doing so much better.
(13:20):
So understanding just thosethree key metrics would mean
that everyone has a handle onexactly where the issues are
within the retail business andwhat come and what it therefore
can be fixed and in whattimeline.
And you know, knowing what canbe fixed and what can't be fixed
, really, really important andthen you get an idea of you know
(13:41):
what's achievable.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
A couple of other retailers foryou that blast from the past,
texas.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Oh, yes, and tandy, do you ever tandy?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
blockbusters mbc.
Yeah, comet.
Yeah courts furnishes there's,there's, yeah, there's more than
you think when you say my eyeoh yes, yep, but then think of
all the people that are in there.
So I think our mfi Is now arange.
I think our local bhs was awillco's, ironically.
Um, so those units have evolvedand and moved on, which is uh,
(14:15):
which is always good.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, what's really interesting actually is what
we've seen, what we're seeingand we haven't seen it fully yet
and, and you know we've seen alot of debonem stores remain
vacant because that's they'requite an issue about
redeveloping Big departmentstores because there's a lot of
space that doesn't have anywindows, so people to all make
it into flats, you know, butactually if you did that, half
(14:36):
the flats wouldn't have windows,so you can't.
That's not very achievable veryeasily.
But stores like Woolworth's andwillco in in high streets are
probably more able to beconverted into flats because
they have more Open naturallight coming into them.
And what we've seen in the pastis that you know the top floor
will go to resi or to office orto works, you know Co-working
(14:57):
space.
The bottom will get we split upinto smaller stores.
So whilst they're bigger thanthey used to be, they're still
smaller than they are currently.
And that offers new retailers anopportunity to come in.
Because over the years theconversations I've had with town
centres and with businessimprovement districts has always
been about my town stagnatingbecause I cannot, I don't have
any space to have any moreretailers in, there was no one
(15:19):
moving out and I don't have anyflex.
So the new retailers who wantto come in, I can't, I can't
accommodate them.
So hopefully what we'll seeover the next few years is some
new retailers Springing up anddeveloping and they're all.
And you know what the internethas done is.
It's been brilliant, it's beengiven that learning ground for
all those retailers who to testtheir propositions and see
(15:41):
whether they're a goer, and thenthey they realize I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Something we've I've always known is that bricks and
mortar is really important andpeople like going into store,
and then they move over intostore as well, so they get that
omnichannel offer and one of thethings you talked about In the
kind of previously was aroundkind of knowing your business,
knowing your data that foughtfor when people are in, and we
talked on a previous episodearound the kind of rise of
(16:05):
Saturdays again the importanceof making sure we've got the
right colleagues in on thoseSaturdays.
I remember again in my timerunning shops we probably
weren't our best on Saturdaysbecause in Sundays we had
probably a younger workforcethere students, part-timers and
our Core team, our full-time's,our experience works.
(16:25):
One worked Monday to Friday, soI know that shifts happened,
but again, as we're working in amore hybrid world, saturdays
and Sundays seem to be coming alot more, the discreitional
shopping days where we've gottime and we want to go out and
have a wonder.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely.
I mean, saturday was always thepeak trading day anyway, but
the data is showing that thathas increased in importance
proportionately throughout theweek, even more now, and that
we're only seeing a smallincrease.
But it's starting and that's asyou say.
Simon, you know we work in ahybrid fashion.
I'm sitting at home at themoment.
You know, the day that I haveto go out to shop really Is
(17:02):
Saturday.
I'm not in my town centreanymore during the working week
where I used to be able to popout at lunchtime and go shopping
.
I don't do that anymore.
So Saturday is my day, andsometimes Sunday too.
So, yes, you need Experiencedsales people on those days
because actually if I'm out on aleisure trip and I've got a bit
more time to spend, I'm morelikely to spend more money if
someone's pretty persuasive andsells to me and helps me and
(17:25):
supports me in my trip.
So it has to be aboutresourcing it right and
understanding your business,because for some businesses,
saturdays, whilst may be busy,may be more functional.
So In every business isdifferent.
But understanding where thebenchmark, the national
benchmark, is, really helpsbecause it gives you that Laser
(17:48):
view to be able to focus and saywell, actually what is our
Saturday doing.
You know, what should we do onthat?
Should we change anything atall or just leave as is and
start to test things as well asyou go through?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Brilliant.
So Lots of positivity, lotsthings to look at, some good
tips there around again,reviewing Saturday's experience
Making sure we're upselling topeople when they're in the shop
or at least trying to convertwhen football is relatively Flat
or stagnant, with the kind ofminimal gains and decreases.
So, um, yeah, let's see whatpans out in the next few months
(18:20):
with weather, economics, blackFriday, cyber Monday and then I
suppose, ultimately for lots ofretailers, it all comes, comes
together at Christmas.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Absolutely.
I mean, we'll be keeping a veryclose eye on this year, as we
have in all the other years, butwe're in a more normal
economics cycle now, albeit notvery pleasant one, because of
course there's always somethingthat's thrown at us.
But yes, let's just keep itclose on and we look forward to
talking again.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Brilliant.
Thanks, dye, we'll catch yousoon.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Thanks, Simon.
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
I am again joined by DayanWhirlmarketing Insights director
, mri Springboard, and we aregoing to look at football from
July to August.
Hi, dayan.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hi Simon.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm good, how are?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
you Good, just recovered from the forum, or
Productivity Forum, last weekwhich you opened for us, so it
was great to have you thereagain.
Another good session and somebrilliant feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, no, it was a great day, really good, great
network opportunities for us.
So not talking about myself,but the papers and the
presentations were great, reallyinspiring.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good, good, and we're just in there in the throes of
getting dates sorted.
So we'll announce that soon andpeople can start signing up.
So let's turn our attentionback to football.
We've talked over the monthsthis year around the kind of
different trends.
I think last month was a recordbreaking month, probably for
all the wrong reasons.
So how have we fared from Julyinto the end of August?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, good news is August was slightly more
positive, which is great.
We returned to positiveterritory in terms of a
month-a-month increase infootball, but it was actually
only very marginal.
It was point two percent up,which doesn't offset a point
three percent drop from June toJuly, which is a real shame.
So at top level, you know it'sclear that the economic
(01:24):
conditions are starting to tellon foot.
For point two percent up onmonth, you know it's not great.
It meant that the annualincrease from 2022 in August was
the lowest.
It's been just 1.9 percenthigher than August 2022 and
whilst some of that is a naturalsort of tailing off of the
(01:44):
exponential rises that we'vebeen having since Covid, it's
also a reflection of thepressures that people are
feeling in terms of householdbudgets.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So that's an area we talked about on a number of
occasions, actually reallystarting to shine through now,
unfortunately, in terms of Isuppose we're out of peak
holiday season so we've paid forour holidays or we've used the
credit we had from lockdown.
We're now in that run clearclocks, change kids back at
school.
We start to see Christmas insupermarkets.
(02:15):
I've seen some this week.
I think it was Marzi Pan andMint Spies Cracky.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
The skipped Halloween then.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, that'll come and go in a flash.
And there's all the stuff youknow on social media about 18
week at 18, fridays to Christmasand a hundred days and all that
stuff.
So it we've turned that cornerinto the, the darker nights and
that means we'll start to putthe heating on and the fires on
(02:42):
because the temperature is goingto drop and that's all kind of.
I suppose those energy pricinghave all been forgotten for a
while while we've been bathingin the sun.
So there's, there's those costpressures.
At the time we're recording, Ithink this week we're expecting
interest rates to go up again,strangely, as inflation has come
down.
So we're heading into that,aren't we?
(03:02):
Plus, like you say, there'sHalloween, there's bonfire night
, which which I think Halloween,probably a bigger event now
than before, and bonfire nightgetting caught up in the whole
animal welfare thing.
So maybe diminishing.
But and then you into the bigevent, are you?
Then you then you're atChristmas and Black Friday and
Cyber Monday, weeks in between.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Absolutely.
I mean, I know, but we'regetting into the Christmas
period because I've and Ipresented this last week, didn't
I?
I'm the first telling of thelike forecast for quarter four
for Christmas in terms offootfall.
So I definitely know thatChristmas is on the horizon, but
most definitely, you know,let's all talk about what's it
going to deliver for Christmasand it's going to be a challenge
(03:45):
.
It really is.
I mean, we're very habitual asconsumers.
We don't change our habits verymuch.
We do what we do every year.
We've been tracking footfall atMRS springboard since 20 or
2002 actually, but publishingdata since 2009 and over that
period we can see a very, veryclear pattern of upwards and
(04:06):
downwards shifts across the yearand it doesn't really change
much.
So when we forecast, what I dois, of course, look at what's
happened in previous years andthen take a judgment what I
think is going to happen thisyear in terms of those monthly
changes, and of course, thatflows through into an annual
change and a change from 2019.
So I won't still own Thunder,but needless to say it, I
(04:26):
haven't been forecasting hugeuplifts, but certainly in terms
of August, that's Really the endof the summer, as you said, and
it's the beginning of autumnand the run-up to Christmas and
we're definitely seeing thisreigning back, this caution.
We're seeing it every August.
Anyway people are more cautiousin August than they were in the
height of the summer, in July,but definitely we're seeing it
(04:49):
and you know inflation has a bigpart to play in that.
The O&S talk about thisdivergence between value and
volume.
You know values are going up ofcourse they are, because
inflation is sitting at 6.8% butpeople are buying fewer items
because they can't afford asmuch and they're trading down as
well.
So volumes are lower and valuesare higher.
(05:13):
So if you just look at values,you're going to get a very
distorted view of retail salesand people go.
All retail sales are holding uponly because of inflation.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, and that's really interesting point.
I know we touched on it lastweek briefly again at the forum.
But in a retail, whatever worldyou work in, if the cost of
goods is going up but youractual three puts going down,
you therefore need less labor todo it because, from a pure
workload point of view, you'rehandling less items, putting
(05:43):
less items out, making lessmeals in restaurants, pulling
less pints of beer in a pub,receiving less goods in a
warehouse, so that I thinkpeople are starting to move away
from that top line sales numberas the kind of mechanism,
because if you just look at thatyou pat yourself on the back.
But actually, as you say, ifyou start to look at that
(06:04):
divergence of value and volume,you can see that everything else
is in decline.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Absolutely, and I think there's two sides of it.
There's that fulfillmentelement, which is absolutely
right.
You know you need less peopleto fulfill less, but at the same
time, because you're puttingmore eggs into a smaller basket,
people are buying less.
So every customer is morevaluable to the retailer because
you need to make sure that thatsale value of every customer
(06:33):
who walks through the door is ashigh as it possibly can be.
So, therefore, what the focusneeds to be is on shop floor
staff, making sure they're doingtheir best job they can
possibly can in converting moresales.
So, you know, upselling wherethey can, converting more where
they can, making that wholecustomer journey install more
(06:53):
appealing, encouraging people tospend more time in store and
therefore they're likely to buymore.
So, and really improve the salevalue of every customer in the
store itself, because clearly,that they're going to need to do
that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And if you don't get it right I suppose you kind of
end up, unfortunately, in theworld of where Wilco ended over
the last couple of weeks.
So you know our thoughts go outto all the colleagues there.
Clearly Poundland B&M have comein and hopefully taken the
colleagues with some of theproperty I think the range we've
said before have purchased thebrand online brand rights.
(07:31):
So tough time for thosecolleagues and everybody in
their office in the kind ofsenior team.
But any thoughts on how we gotto where it got to?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yes, I mean it's as you say.
It's really sad for all thosepeople who work so hard at Wilco
to make it a successful retailoperation and in many ways the
demise of the business isn't areflection on their efforts and
their success.
I mean a lot of the issues thatWilcos were dealing with were
back office infrastructure costissues.
I mean certainly that's whatput pay to the HMV offer for
(08:08):
Wilcos.
The infrastructure costs werejust too high.
They clearly overextended.
There became a much biggerbusiness than perhaps they
should have been.
The store locations they boughtquite a few stores which, as we
know, had work for what was, andalso a very large, often to two
(08:30):
floors in town centers whichare more highly rented, the
retail parks and Simply thesalesman to cover the cost of
those stores.
And when you have four hundredstores and quite a few of those
are very highly rented to largeis it's gonna cause issues in
association with all the otherissues that they had very highly
.
So all of these things cometogether in the perfect stores.
(08:54):
It's never one thing.
And of course, the competitionif they're leaner and meaner and
better doing what they're doingand their costs are lower than
they can survive.
So it's really sad.
I mean they do say clocks toclocks in three generations, but
you hope it's not true and it'salways sad when you lose a
strong brand from the highstreet.
But you know, I had a quicklook last week at all the brands
(09:17):
that I remember back from theseventies and eighties and I'm
really I'm really share my agethat just don't exist anymore.
I mean, do you remember Athena?
I mean Just yes, I love Athena.
You know, that's when we haveposters on our walls and not
that sock shop went, you know,and so it's not that size of
store, because soft shop renttiny stores, you know.
(09:37):
So you know if the listcontinues and they all had that
individual problems.
But I think what it's saying isthat you know the the re, the
bricks and mortar retailindustry, and even just the
retail industry, is an everevolving industry, as all
industries are.
But I think, because it'slargely structured around a
built environment, those shiftstend to be a bit slower than
(10:00):
they are in the digital world.
So you get movers in and outand that takes longer.
So it needs to be a much moreof a dire situation for a retail
operation bricks and mortarretail operation to shut its
doors, then perhaps a digitaloperation and it's more visible.
So, yes, really sad, but we area them or I swim board.
We've seen Online retailers lookup stores.
(10:24):
I mean, we know Amazon, we knowyou know best, you know most
probably most widely regarded,you know example.
But there's Gymshark, of course.
They've bought a flagship storein Regent Street and they're an
online operation.
But there's also smallerretailers that we've been
working with at MRI Spinboardwho have started online and are
moving into stores.
So it's happening and thevacancy rate is dropping.
(10:45):
So that shows businesses areopening.
So it's always there's always alight at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and I think in any industry, even in life, kind
of the strongest survive, don'tthey?
But I suppose what it does meanis somebody unfortunately now
takes the mantle of Will Cozenwill be in the relegations zone,
I suppose, if you like and it'sa football in retail and unneed
to up their game.
And again, as we talked aboutlast week, I think if you're in
(11:12):
one of those businesses that'sconstantly changing, that's
probably difficult but actuallyreassuring that the business is
evolving.
If you're in one of thosebusinesses where you're kind of
standing still, I think that'swhere the warning signs and
things start to creep in,because we've seen what happened
to Will Cozen's House of Fraserin its day, Debenhams, all of
(11:34):
those other ones that we talkedabout Athena, my time, Focus,
the IY I want to work there, doit all.
Fads, Fads.
Get your wallpaper, yes, Getyour wallpaper.
But then some of them come back, don't they?
So yeah, Mike actually has donea good job with Fraser's House
of Fraser.
They've opened a Wimpy,ironically, in Shrewsbury High
(11:56):
Street that seems to be busy.
So there is a bit of a 360 aswell, where some of these brands
come back.
So I suppose you never know.
But the point I wanted tostress was everybody that's in
successful business is inconstant change, because that's
how you survive.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Absolutely it is.
And I suppose because I'vebecause working at MRI
Springboard and I found in thatbusiness and knowing that it's
all about measurement andmeasurements change and seeing
the data flow through every dayin terms of footfall and sales,
and I see it move from day today that's naturally where I
have sympathy with that and it'sjust part of my DNA.
(12:37):
So I see that I think forretailers although retailers
work on short timelines, it'seasy to forget that actually
things are changing for day today and it's those little
incremental changes that make abig difference sometimes, and
understanding the basics isabsolutely critical.
So how many customers are yourstores attracting through the
(13:00):
doors?
What's the norm, what's goodlook like, what's bad, look like
what's consistently good andconsistently bad, and then, same
with conversion, how many ofthose are actually buying
anything and what are theybuying?
And also how that is at storeperforming in relation to where
it's located.
That's really important becauseyou could think that the store
is doing okay, but actually itcould be doing so much better.
(13:20):
So understanding just thosethree key metrics would mean
that everyone has a handle onexactly where the issues are
within the retail business andwhat come and what it therefore
can be fixed and in whattimeline.
And you know, knowing what canbe fixed and what can't be fixed
, really, really important andthen you get an idea of you know
(13:41):
what's achievable.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
A couple of other retailers foryou that blast from the past,
texas.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Oh, yes, and tandy, do you ever tandy?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
blockbusters mbc.
Yeah, comet.
Yeah courts furnishes there's,there's, yeah, there's more than
you think when you say my eyeoh yes, yep, but then think of
all the people that are in there.
So I think our mfi Is now arange.
I think our local bhs was awillco's, ironically.
Um, so those units have evolvedand and moved on, which is uh,
(14:15):
which is always good.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, what's really interesting actually is what
we've seen, what we're seeingand we haven't seen it fully yet
and, and you know we've seen alot of debonem stores remain
vacant because that's they'requite an issue about
redeveloping Big departmentstores because there's a lot of
space that doesn't have anywindows, so people to all make
it into flats, you know, butactually if you did that, half
(14:36):
the flats wouldn't have windows,so you can't.
That's not very achievable veryeasily.
But stores like Woolworth's andwillco in in high streets are
probably more able to beconverted into flats because
they have more Open naturallight coming into them.
And what we've seen in the pastis that you know the top floor
will go to resi or to office orto works, you know Co-working
(14:57):
space.
The bottom will get we split upinto smaller stores.
So whilst they're bigger thanthey used to be, they're still
smaller than they are currently.
And that offers new retailers anopportunity to come in.
Because over the years theconversations I've had with town
centres and with businessimprovement districts has always
been about my town stagnatingbecause I cannot, I don't have
any space to have any moreretailers in, there was no one
(15:19):
moving out and I don't have anyflex.
So the new retailers who wantto come in, I can't, I can't
accommodate them.
So hopefully what we'll seeover the next few years is some
new retailers Springing up anddeveloping and they're all.
And you know what the internethas done is.
It's been brilliant, it's beengiven that learning ground for
all those retailers who to testtheir propositions and see
(15:41):
whether they're a goer, and thenthey they realize I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Something we've I've always known is that bricks and
mortar is really important andpeople like going into store,
and then they move over intostore as well, so they get that
omnichannel offer and one of thethings you talked about In the
kind of previously was aroundkind of knowing your business,
knowing your data that foughtfor when people are in, and we
talked on a previous episodearound the kind of rise of
(16:05):
Saturdays again the importanceof making sure we've got the
right colleagues in on thoseSaturdays.
I remember again in my timerunning shops we probably
weren't our best on Saturdaysbecause in Sundays we had
probably a younger workforcethere students, part-timers and
our Core team, our full-time's,our experience works.
(16:25):
One worked Monday to Friday, soI know that shifts happened,
but again, as we're working in amore hybrid world, saturdays
and Sundays seem to be coming alot more, the discreitional
shopping days where we've gottime and we want to go out and
have a wonder.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely.
I mean, saturday was always thepeak trading day anyway, but
the data is showing that thathas increased in importance
proportionately throughout theweek, even more now, and that
we're only seeing a smallincrease.
But it's starting and that's asyou say.
Simon, you know we work in ahybrid fashion.
I'm sitting at home at themoment.
You know, the day that I haveto go out to shop really Is
(17:02):
Saturday.
I'm not in my town centreanymore during the working week
where I used to be able to popout at lunchtime and go shopping
.
I don't do that anymore.
So Saturday is my day, andsometimes Sunday too.
So, yes, you need Experiencedsales people on those days
because actually if I'm out on aleisure trip and I've got a bit
more time to spend, I'm morelikely to spend more money if
someone's pretty persuasive andsells to me and helps me and
(17:25):
supports me in my trip.
So it has to be aboutresourcing it right and
understanding your business,because for some businesses,
saturdays, whilst may be busy,may be more functional.
So In every business isdifferent.
But understanding where thebenchmark, the national
benchmark, is, really helpsbecause it gives you that Laser
(17:48):
view to be able to focus and saywell, actually what is our
Saturday doing.
You know, what should we do onthat?
Should we change anything atall or just leave as is and
start to test things as well asyou go through?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Brilliant.
So Lots of positivity, lotsthings to look at, some good
tips there around again,reviewing Saturday's experience
Making sure we're upselling topeople when they're in the shop
or at least trying to convertwhen football is relatively Flat
or stagnant, with the kind ofminimal gains and decreases.
So, um, yeah, let's see whatpans out in the next few months
(18:20):
with weather, economics, blackFriday, cyber Monday and then I
suppose, ultimately for lots ofretailers, it all comes, comes
together at Christmas.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Absolutely.
I mean, we'll be keeping a veryclose eye on this year, as we
have in all the other years, butwe're in a more normal
economics cycle now, albeit notvery pleasant one, because of
course there's always somethingthat's thrown at us.
But yes, let's just keep itclose on and we look forward to
talking again.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Brilliant.
Thanks, dye, we'll catch yousoon.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Thanks, Simon.
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