June 21, 2023 • 35 mins
Annuities! For years now they’ve been dissed, maligned and misunderstood … which is why we’re setting the record straight on this episode of Retirement Equals Freedom.
Host Josh Bretl, owner of FSR Wealth Strategies, explains why this particular investment vehicle has gotten a bad rap (Co-Host Dave Schmidt can relate) and how to educate ourselves on the facts.
As always, it comes down to taking a holistic look at your financial snapshot, including timelines, mix of investments and overall goals.
Sure. When it comes to annuities, there are some very real downsides. But in addition to outlining those, Josh is also helping us get clear about the fact that it’s not a black and white situation.
Or, to put it another way, as our host warns: “If you ever think something is always good, no matter what, you’ve got a problem. And if you think something is bad, no matter what, you’ve got a problem.”
This episode will help anyone who has shut the door on annuities to reconsider them as an investment option – one featuring growth as well as safety.
If you’re intrigued and want to know more, join us for an upcoming Part II that will take a closer look at what annuities offer, how they work and whether they might be just what you need to round out and grow your retirement nest egg.
Trigger Warning: If you’re partial to water chestnuts or have ever worked at a fast-food drive-thru window, the views expressed by your co-hosts may be upsetting. Jokes, we're just having fun.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Bretl (00:01):
I wanted to go through the annuity word
because I am of the beliefthat no single investment or
no single product where youcan put your money, Is ever,
always good or always bad.
If you ever think somethingis always good, no matter
what, you got a problem.
If you think something'salways bad, no matter
what, you got a problem.
(00:21):
There are situations indifferent people's lives that
everything can fit dependingupon on where it goes.
Dave Schmidt (00:27):
Does this sound like you when you
hear the word annuities?
If so, look, we get it.
For years now they'vebeen dissed, maligned and
flat out misunderstood.
Which is why in thisepisode we're setting
the record straight.
Sure.
When it comes toannuities, there are
some very real downsides,
(00:48):
but in addition tooutlining those, you'll
also learn why it's not ablack and white situation.
In other words, as you heardJosh say just a few seconds ago,
Josh Bretl (00:58):
No single investment or no single product where you
can put your money, Is ever,always good or always bad.
Dave Schmidt (01:06):
This episode will help anyone who has shut the
door on annuities to reconsiderthem as an investment option.
One featuring growthas well as safety.
Ooh.
And uh, a trigger warning.
If you're partial to waterchestnuts or have ever worked
in a fast food drive-through
the views expressed by yourco-hosts may be upsetting,
(01:28):
but it's all in good fun.
This is The RetirementEquals Freedom Podcast.
Your host, Josh Bretl, is theowner of FSR Wealth Strategies.
And for the last 20 plusyears, Josh has been helping
fine folks like you gain theconfidence to make retirement
the best part of your life.
And me, who am I?
(01:50):
Thanks for asking.
I'm Dave.
Josh's longtime friend,co-host of the show and
big fan of ordering (drivethru shenanigans mumbling).
You'll learn moreabout that later.
But for now, let me let youlet me end my introduction,
so you can enjoy the show.
(02:26):
Just got to put on my chapstick.
You can't record apodcast with chapped lips.
Josh Bretl (02:32):
You know, it's summertime, and I feel like
chapped lips aren't a thingof summer, but I've had some
really chapped lips recently.
Dave Schmidt (02:39):
Yeah, you've been doing a lot of smooching?
Josh Bretl (02:40):
Yeah.
All that smooching.
If that's the way this is goingto start, that's what it is.
Dave Schmidt (02:48):
It is what it is.
Josh Bretl (02:49):
Big news in our house.
Dave Schmidt (02:51):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (02:52):
Zach got new glasses.
Zach is tiny.
Since birth, he has barelybeen on the growth chart.
On height and weight,he's been less than one
percentile his whole life.
He just needed glassesat a young age.
And his face is so tiny, therewas one pair that fit him.
(03:13):
At that point we went toWalmart to get his glasses.
Someone recommended that becausethey said kids break them all
the time, they lose them, soget a cheap pair of glasses.
And we went to Walmart.
The Walmart guy was great,he fit Zach really well.
Zach never broke hisglasses, never lost them.
The kid is amazing the wayhe takes care of glasses.
About a year and a halflater, his prescription
(03:34):
got updated a little bit.
We go back to the Walmart again,his face has not grown enough to
get any other pairs of glasses.
Dave Schmidt (03:42):
Oh, no.
Same pair?
Josh Bretl (03:44):
Same pair.
So the kid, since kindergartenyear, has had the exact
same pair of glasses.
Dave Schmidt (03:50):
Different lens, same frame.
Josh Bretl (03:51):
Different lens.
We're now going intofourth grade and it's it.
Now, he has an orange and bluelens, so it's like this orange
frame, and it's got a littlebit of blue on the inside.
He looks cute.
It's adorable.
This tiny little face, theselittle glasses on there.
He is going to a differenteye doctor, and he's grown a
little bit and they recommendeda new pair of glasses.
(04:11):
We're like, "Oh dude,you deserve this."
We went and we got him fromthe eye doctor, and he had
a lot more choices to make.
But of course, Zach hadto pick an orange lens.
Dave Schmidt (04:24):
No.
Josh Bretl (04:24):
Or an orange frame, I'm sorry.
But it's a bigger,rounder orange frame.
It's those things that Isaw him this morning as his
glasses for the first time.
I worked last night.
He's had the same thingfor so long that I almost
didn't recognize him thismorning in his new glasses.
Dave Schmidt (04:40):
Oh man.
Does he just not like changeor does he love the frames?
Josh Bretl (04:44):
He likes to try new things, but he doesn't like to
change things that he likes.
Does that make sense?
Dave Schmidt (04:49):
Yeah.
That's deep.
Josh Bretl (04:50):
Yeah.
We have what wecall vacation Zach.
Vacation Zach is thehappiest version and
best version of Zach.
We take him on vacationand he thrives on vacation,
trying new things, doingnew things like that.
Dave Schmidt (05:04):
Does he bring the platypus with him?
Josh Bretl (05:05):
No.
The duck billed platypus?
Dave Schmidt (05:07):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (05:08):
Sean, I'm glad you remember that.
Sean the duck billed platypus.
Oh God, is that funny.
Dave Schmidt (05:14):
Good old Sean.
Josh Bretl (05:15):
How are you?
Dave Schmidt (05:16):
I don't know, Josh.
I'm feeling alittle gloomy today.
Josh Bretl (05:22):
Is there a reason why you're feeling gloomy?
Dave Schmidt (05:24):
For those that listen to episode 39, you
asked the question what I'mlooking forward to this summer?
Josh Bretl (05:29):
I was worried about this.
Dave Schmidt (05:31):
And I answered the Chicago Dog's
game for my birthday.
My birthday was June 4th.
The day before and the dayof, I was down and out.
Felt like poop.
So we rescheduled to last night.
Tuesday, June 13th andthey got rained out.
So Dave's summer, I'm not goingto say it's officially ruined,
(05:54):
but it's kind of off to a...
Josh Bretl (05:56):
Dave, I'll take you to a Dog's game.
You and I, let's go.
Dave Schmidt (05:59):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (06:00):
Yeah, we don't need kids or spouses or anything.
We'll just go watch the Dog's.
Dave Schmidt (06:03):
Should we record video of ourselves
enjoying cocktails and hotdogs at this Dog's game?
Josh Bretl (06:08):
Oh, that sounds like a great idea.
Dave Schmidt (06:09):
Okay, we can start a new segment on the show.
Josh Bretl (06:11):
If you guys could see the smile on
his face occur again.
Dave Schmidt (06:13):
Yeah.
Did that just makeyour day seem me smile?
Josh Bretl (06:16):
It did.
Your dad's been in town for thelast week and you're taking him
to the airport this afternoon,I'm sure that has you down too.
Dave Schmidt (06:23):
It does have me down.
Did I tell you he officiallyrequested to refer to him
as something different now?
Josh Bretl (06:30):
Are we only allowed to call him Big Mike?
Dave Schmidt (06:33):
He likes to now be called Cowboy
Mike from Colorado.
Josh Bretl (06:36):
Why cowboy Mike?
Dave Schmidt (06:39):
You know how us Americans, you watch a few
episodes of Yellowstone andstart drinking a little bit of
bourbon, we think we're cowboys.
So that's what...
Josh Bretl (06:47):
Again, if we were a sports talk show, he wants his
own name associated with him?
Dave Schmidt (06:52):
Absolutely.
To be fair, he showedup from O'Hare.
Carla picked him up whenhe came in wearing a
full-blown cowboy hat witha cow skull on the front.
I'm like, "Wow."
Josh Bretl (07:04):
He lives in Denver.
Dave Schmidt (07:06):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (07:06):
It's not like he's in the Wild West.
He's in Denver.
Dave Schmidt (07:10):
I mean, what are you got to do?
What you going to do?
We all have our personas.
That's it.
Cowboy Mike.
Josh Bretl (07:14):
Oh man.
Dave Schmidt (07:16):
Yeah.
But you know what?
There are three thingsin life that cheer me up.
Pizza, family, Retirement EqualsFreedom podcast recording.
Okay.
So Josh, if I remembercorrectly, you have a
nice little glow going onhere, a nice little tan.
I haven't seen anything belowthe shirt, but I believe
(07:37):
you were just in the lovelycity of San Francisco.
Josh Bretl (07:41):
I was.
And that has nothingto do with the tan.
The tan is all from whenI've been back, but-
Dave Schmidt (07:45):
Oh, why?
You mean-
Josh Bretl (07:46):
Coaching soccer games.
Dave Schmidt (07:46):
And golfing.
Josh Bretl (07:48):
I didn't golf.
Dave Schmidt (07:48):
Oh, I thought you golfed.
Josh Bretl (07:49):
Oh, I did golf once.
Dave Schmidt (07:52):
I mini golfed.
Josh Bretl (07:53):
Oh yeah?
Dave Schmidt (07:53):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (07:54):
You got a tan from that?
Dave Schmidt (07:54):
It was actually the night it was like 59
degrees and everyone'sbundled up and I'm wearing
shorts and a T-shirt.
Josh Bretl (08:00):
There is your weather.
No.
First week out ofschool, we took the kids
out to San Francisco.
I think I mentioned thisin our last podcast.
It was our very first vacationas a family that didn't revolve
around a beach or a theme park.
The kids loved it.
They were rock stars.
They loved San Francisco.
I don't know if you've beenout there to visit Alcatraz?
Dave Schmidt (08:22):
Yes.
We did a tour.
I was probably our kids' age.
Josh Bretl (08:26):
Okay.
Well, it's one of those toursyou take a boat ride out to
the rock off of the shoresof San Francisco, and you
walk up to the jail and theygive you this audio tour
to wear around your head.
And I was a little worriedat how the kids would do.
They rocked it,they just loved it.
They didn't want to leave.
They were listeningto all the stories but
(08:47):
it made me so excited.
It was like, oh, this opensup a whole new world of
vacation possibilities.
And they were rock stars.
They went on a threehour hike with us up
in the Redwood Forest.
They walked throughChinatown and they got to
try some new food and theywere really, really cool.
But vacation Zach came outand we laughed because if
(09:08):
we try to take his picture,if we're here we're like,
"Zach, smile for a picture."
No smile, just is goofy.
Out there he doesn'tstop smiling.
You're like, "Zach, letme take your picture."
He's like the best smile ever.
So Missy and I'll look atour memories of our phones.
We'll be like, "Oh,that must be on vacation
because Zach's smiling."
It was a great vacation.
I know you missedme while I was gone.
(09:29):
I think I mentioned that lasttime on the show that, that
was the longest you and Ihave been apart in a year.
Dave Schmidt (09:34):
I know.
It's unfortunate that we'restarting to do video because
people can see that I am...
Oh, I think I'm at my nineweek mark since a haircut.
It is absolutely all overmy ears and my neck and
it's so uncomfortable.
All I do is I think about, I'mso self-conscious about it.
Josh Bretl (09:50):
Is getting bigger.
Dave Schmidt (09:51):
It's huge.
Josh Bretl (09:52):
You can put product in there and it really goes.
Dave Schmidt (09:55):
I know.
I think tomorrow at one o'clock,I think I'm going to book an
appointment and then show upto the workshop with a new dew.
Josh, in our past, I've hadsome run-ins with annuities.
Josh Bretl (10:07):
You have?
You've run into them.
Dave Schmidt (10:09):
Yeah.
I don't know.
It just sounded like somethingthat sounds like authority.
And so I'm like, "Okay, let'sstart off with that bad joke."
Josh Bretl (10:20):
Well, this is a topic that we've been wanting
to do for a while and I'veavoided it, not because I'm
afraid of it, but because Idon't think any one product or
any one vehicle should get itsown platform that's out there.
Let me back that upand why I say that.
Dave Schmidt (10:40):
Back that thing up, would you?
Josh Bretl (10:42):
Retirement planning itself is a process.
We've spent a lot of timetalking about the process and
how to think about it and theunderlying what you should do.
And we've never evermentioned a product or
a vehicle on this show.
Dave Schmidt: Yeah, you're right. (10:57):
undefined
Josh Bretl (10:58):
We never have.
And I never wantedit to be that way.
Because people that justmention product, and if you
go to one of these workshopsand they just talk about
how the wonders of thisproduct, they're salespeople.
It gives our wholeindustry a bad name.
And I never wanted to talkabout that, but this is one of
(11:19):
those vehicles that whenever Ido recommend something, and by
the time I am working with aclient, making a recommendation,
we have a great rapport.
We've usually had three tofive meetings, and I know
them really well and there'sa trust that's been built up.
And when I make a recommendationto them, they almost
(11:40):
never even think about it.
They're just, "Yeah, ifthat's what you think, that's
what we're going to do."
And that's what I like.
Now, this is one of thoseweird vehicles that people
have heard about or they'veread about, or it's something
that triggers this, not ineverybody, but in some people
this response that is unnatural.
(12:01):
I wanted to go through theannuity word because I am
of the belief that no singleinvestment or no single product
where you can put your money isever always good or always bad.
If you ever think somethingis always good, no matter
what, you got a problem.
If you think something'salways bad, no matter
(12:21):
what, you got a problem.
There are situations indifferent people's lives that
everything can fit dependingupon on where it goes.
Dave Schmidt (12:28):
You mentioned annuities.
It's like how I used tothink about blue cheese and
peas and water chestnuts.
The idea of it's like ewe!
Josh Bretl (12:35):
But now I love, but food is different.
Water chestnuts arejust inherently bad.
Whoever puts-
Dave Schmidt (12:41):
Right.
Those are still bad.
But blue cheese, delicious.
Josh Bretl (12:47):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (12:47):
But I mean blue cheese and annuities,
there's a correlation there.
Josh Bretl (12:52):
Are we getting a peek into your DR2R on here?
Dave Schmidt (12:54):
No.
Oh, thank you for telling me.
You're trying to peek again,let me flip that back over.
Josh Bretl (12:59):
But I wanted to talk today a little bit about
why we don't use annuitiesin different situations.
Dave Schmidt (13:07):
Now, just to set this up, we are planning a two
part series in this, right?
Josh Bretl (13:12):
We are.
Yes.
Today we're going to talkabout all the things that
people see online thatsay hey, why this is bad.
And I'm not trying to defend it.
For some people, annuitiesserve zero purpose in their
portfolio, but there are somepeople that annuities can
add a lot of value to it.
So it really has to go with thewhole process and your situation
and things along those lines.
So today I want to talkabout some of the bad parts
(13:33):
to it, but also reframe ita little bit for people who
should be thinking about ita little bit differently.
Dave Schmidt (13:38):
Let's dig in baby.
Josh Bretl (13:42):
Al right.
The first one is-
Dave Schmidt (13:45):
No, wait.
First, you're listing thereasons people typically
hate annuities or-
Josh Bretl (13:49):
Yeah.
Hate them, and they shouldhate them for these reasons,
but there's also reasonsyou should like them.
So the first one isa lack of liquidity.
So liquidity means how fast youcan get access to your money.
Now, annuities do providea lot of benefits.
There are benefits thatpeople would love to have.
There can bedownside protection.
There can be someguaranteed interest rates.
(14:11):
There can be someincome guarantees.
There's things that people want.
And in order for the insurancecompany to offer these,
what they look for is theylook for the ability to
hold onto your money fora longer period of time.
So liquidity comes into play.
The shortest term might be likea three year liquidity, and
you're not going to get as manybells and whistles as you will
(14:32):
with something that has a 10.
I mean, the longest termI've seen is 16 years.
16 years seems ridiculous.
Who wants to tie theirmoney up for 16 years?
And when I say it like that,that does sound pretty awful.
But when you think about it aspart of a process, if you're
looking for some of thesebenefits that come into play
(14:52):
and you have enough other moneyin other areas doing other
things, for a lot of people,the liquidity may not matter.
I do admit you have totake the liquidity under-
Dave Schmidt (15:03):
Advisement.
Josh Bretl (15:04):
Advisement.
And you have to think about it.
Your hand signals there.
But just because it's illiquiddoesn't make it necessarily bad.
There's a lot of otherilliquid assets out there.
Dave Schmidt (15:17):
Is that a word, illiquid?
Josh Bretl (15:18):
Yeah, it is.
Dave Schmidt (15:18):
Is it really?
Josh Bretl (15:19):
Lack of liquidity.
Illiquid.
Dave Schmidt (15:21):
Wow.
So I said advisement,you said illiquid.
You know what I'mstarting to sense here?
And I'm totallyinterrupting you.
You ever watched Pee-wee'sPlayhouse back in the day?
Josh Bretl (15:28):
Oh yeah.
Dave Schmidt (15:29):
As a word of the day?
Josh Bretl (15:30):
Word of the day.
Dave Schmidt (15:30):
We're going to-
Josh Bretl (15:30):
We're all go crazy?
Dave Schmidt (15:32):
We're going to implement that.
Josh Bretl (15:36):
Yes.
So liquidity is an issue.
I'm not saying it's notan issue, but it's not
something you can't overcome.
The next one, and I seethis scares a lot of
people away, is complexity.
We talked about, on thelast episode, everyone's
looking for simplicity.
Everyone wants it to besimple and easy to understand.
There's a lot that can bevery complex inside some
(15:58):
of these annuity contracts.
If you don't understandit and how it applies to
your situation, I agree.
You should not do it.
But that complexity canalso add benefits to it.
Ask as many questionsas you can, understand
it as best as you can.
And if it's too complexfor you, no, don't do it.
But if it's simple enoughto be able to be used into
(16:21):
your situation and you knowhow it's going to apply for
your personal process, justbecause something's complexed
doesn't mean it shouldn't beapplied to your situation.
Dave Schmidt (16:30):
Just like I am a complex individual,
but you understand me.
Josh Bretl (16:34):
I do.
It's really scary.
Dave Schmidt (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Carry, on my friend.
Josh Bretl (16:39):
Like an annuity, I understand it.
Still scary too.
This one gets a badrap quite a bit.
And this has to do...
It says high fees.
Now when we say high fees,it's specifically talking
about one type of annuity.
Dave Schmidt (16:59):
Ain't nobody got cash for that.
Josh Bretl (17:00):
Yeah.
We haven't used thatdrop in a while.
Dave Schmidt (17:02):
I know.
I've heard of the word fee.
Might as well drop that though.
Josh Bretl (17:05):
There's a type of annuity out there
called a variable annuity.
We're going to talk more aboutthat in the next episode.
And these were developed, Ibelieve in the '80s sometime.
They were builtaround a mutual fund.
A mutual fund has its ownfees, variable annuity
adds fees on top of that.
There may not bea reason for it.
So some people were soldthese annuities, which were
nothing more than the samemutual funds you could have
(17:26):
gotten outside the annuitywith higher fees in it.
That's where that gets the badwrap and effect if anywhere
gets the bad wrap, that'sreally necessary, that is it.
Hands down.
Dave Schmidt (17:34):
Fees.
Josh Bretl (17:35):
Yeah.
But there's other typesof annuities that have
no additional fees.
The fixed annuities that yousee, that we'll talk about
next time, they're no realreally different than a CD
with an insurance company.
So CDs are through banks,annuities are through
insurance companies.
CDs for most people haveno fees built into them.
Those same annuities haveno fees built into them.
(17:56):
So we want to think aboutthat in the same way.
Now, but fees is something youwant to take into consideration.
And they don't all have superhigh fees, but some of them do.
It's a decision making processthat has to go into it and how
it fits into your situation.
Make sense?
Dave Schmidt (18:13):
Yeah.
Josh, of course it does.
Josh Bretl (18:15):
I mean, you're an expert at this stuff.
There are some misleading salespractices that go into it too.
Some of these annuities dopay a high upfront commission
to the person who sells it.
They will sell it at all cost.
(18:37):
They don't care about theperson they're selling it
to, they just want thatmoney that comes in the door.
They don't care about howit fits into your situation.
I have seen numerous peoplethat have come into my office,
they've sat with somebody else,they put them in an annuity
that has zero purpose for whatthey're trying to achieve.
And we have to fix it insome way, shape or form.
(18:59):
So again, I don't necessarilythink annuities are bad,
but they have to be usedfor your specific situation.
People get mad at,there's high commissions.
Well, they're nothigh necessarily.
In fact, if I were to use anannuity for one of my clients,
we actually get paid less overthe long term on an annuity
than we do when we manage theirassets, but there is payment
(19:21):
as that comes into play.
What you want to do is youwant to make sure that the
person that's recommendingit to you does not push
it above everything elsejust because of that.
Dave Schmidt (19:34):
Red flag.
Josh Bretl (19:35):
Red flag, hands down.
I always tell our clients,"Look, I think this fits best
in your situation, but ifyou hate it, we have other
options that we can go to.
And it doesn't matter tome one way or the other.
I'm only going to recommendwhat I think is absolutely
best in your situation."
Dave Schmidt (19:49):
Fiduciary.
Josh Bretl (19:50):
Yeah, it's a huge deal.
So they betterunderstand exactly what
you're getting into.
The last one that I want tobring up and reasons that
people really dislike them,this isn't brought up but
it probably should be, is itdoes reduce some of your tax
(20:10):
options that are out there.
Alex (20:13):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Josh Bretl (20:14):
But people don't think about taxes
with annuities, and withannuities, what we have to
worry about, is how that moneyis going to come out when you
start taking the money out.
There's two things Iwant to think about here.
First off, we've talked alot about Roth conversions.
Sometimes annuities will make itharder to do Roth conversions if
you use them inside of an IRA.
It's not impossible.
(20:35):
You have to structure them alittle bit differently, but you
want to make sure that whoeveryou're working with knows how to
do that, how to structure those.
The second is howannuities are taxed when
they're not in an IRA.
We had an episode all onthe non-qualified accounts.
And those are, you have capitalgains and interest in dividends.
(20:58):
Well qualified dividendsand capital gains actually
have a lower tax rate thanannuity distributions, IRA
distributions, things alongthose lines for most people.
So what we worry about is peoplewho shove a bunch of money into
their non-qualified annuity.
When they go to take thatmoney out, there could be a
tax hit that they weren't awareof, they weren't planning on.
(21:20):
Not saying don't do it.
It has to be taken intoconsideration though.
As you're doing that, makesure you take those taxes
into understanding onhow they get distributed.
And actually different annuitieswill have different taxation
of how the money comes out.
That is something that it'snot talked about too often, but
it's something that you shouldbe looking at if you're looking
at purchasing an annuity.
(21:41):
Make sense?
Dave Schmidt (21:42):
Total.
Josh Bretl (21:42):
Now, Erin wrote in the notes here something
down at the bottom, if someoneis looking for a spot to put
their money, there's threemain areas that they look for.
They're looking for liquidity,they're looking for growth and
they're looking for safety.
And I always say, formost people, any real spot
you can stick your money,we can almost always get
you two out of the three.
(22:03):
We can get youliquidity and growth.
We can get you safety.
It depends on different thingsthat you're looking for, for
the purpose of that money.
So this goes back tounderstanding exactly what that
money is going to be used for.
And then is anannuity a good fit?
Is it not a good fit?
That is totally goingto be dependent upon
(22:24):
your specific situation.
Dave Schmidt (22:27):
That word has tripped you up in the past.
Josh Bretl (22:29):
You see, I slowed down on that?
Dave Schmidt (22:31):
You made a concerted effort.
Another good word, concerted to-
Josh Bretl (22:34):
We are full of big words today.
Dave Schmidt (22:36):
I mean, I'm not going to say that we're
like reading Thesaurus'before we record but we
are recording, reading.
Yeah, we're super smart.
Josh Bretl (22:47):
I think that whole thing should stay in.
That was fantastic.
But I hope you understooda little bit about where
people are coming from andthey have a valid point,
but don't stop there.
You have to understandhow it fits for your
specific situation.
And next week, we're goingto talk about the different
types and when we do usethem, why we use them and
(23:07):
why we should think about it.
So again, nothing's inherentlygood or inherently bad at all
times but it matters how itapplies to your situation.
How was that?
Dave Schmidt (23:20):
For us?
That was short and sweet.
Josh Bretl (23:22):
I'm a little worried about your DR2R.
Dave Schmidt (23:24):
You should not be worried about my DR2R.
Josh Bretl (23:27):
I won't get too worried here.
Dave Schmidt (23:28):
It's always very on point.
I didn't see you for a whilewhile you're in San Francisco,
so I'm starting to kind offorget some things about you.
So I think it's agood time for...
[Singing].
Chickity.
Oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (24:06):
I'm officially running out of bird sounds.
Dave Schmidt (24:08):
That's a repeat.
Josh Bretl (24:09):
Yeah, it is.
Dave Schmidt: That's unacceptable. (24:10):
undefined
Josh Bretl (24:12):
I'm sorry.
There's only so manybird sounds I got in me.
Dave Schmidt (24:15):
All right.
I'm going to get youa bird sound book.
Josh Bretl (24:17):
You know what I'm going to do?
I'm just going to downloada bird song to our machine
here, whatever thisthing is, and we'll play
it every now and then.
Dave Schmidt (24:25):
I'm good with that.
Josh Bretl (24:26):
All right.
Dave Schmidt (24:26):
Cool.
All right.
What you got for me Josh?
Josh Bretl (24:29):
So this question comes from an
idea I had yesterdaywith Brian in our office.
He was saying Southwestjust put all their flights
on sale for 40% off ifyou travel after April or
August 15th or something.
His wife called him andsaid, "Hey, would you like
to go visit your friendin Arizona for a weekend?
Flights are reallycheap right now."
(24:50):
And I thought wow,that's really cool.
That's really nice ofhis wife to do that.
And then I got to thinkingDave, if money was not an
option and you could flyanywhere tomorrow, go on
vacation, where would you go?
Dave Schmidt (25:05):
Scandinavia.
So I'm going to go with Sweden.
Josh Bretl (25:10):
Sweden.
Dave Schmidt (25:10):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (25:10):
Why?
Dave Schmidt (25:11):
Because they're my people.
I've always wantedto visit up there.
I mean, I've never leftthe country except, well
no, Mexico, it's not true.
But never left North America.
Sweden just looksreally beautiful.
And my aunt was theretaking pictures.
She went on thisjust her by herself.
She stayed right on somefjords in these little homes.
(25:32):
And I just, oh it was majestic.
It was amazing.
Josh Bretl (25:35):
Oh, that's cool.
Dave Schmidt (25:35):
And so my grandma's parents
are from there.
Josh Bretl (25:39):
You're Swedish?
Dave Schmidt (25:40):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:40):
I'm 25% Swedish.
Man, I didn't knowthat about you.
Dave Schmidt (25:44):
I know.
That's why we're BFFs.
Josh Bretl (25:45):
Woohoo.
Would you take Carla with you?
Dave Schmidt (25:49):
Absolutely.
I would take Carla and Landon.
Oh yeah, for sure.
And maybe stop at Ikea.
Josh Bretl (25:55):
Just because.
Dave Schmidt (25:56):
Just because yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:59):
Cowboy Mike loves Ikea.
Dave Schmidt (26:00):
Sure does.
Flip it around, reverse it.
How about you, Josh?
Tomorrow, money's not an object.
Where would you guys go?
Josh Bretl (26:06):
Well, I'm not taking the kids on this one.
This would be just Missy and I.
And we have been talkingabout this forever, you
know our love of eating.
Dave Schmidt (26:14):
Your love of eating.
Josh Bretl (26:15):
My love of eating.
We want to go to Spain andeat our way through Spain.
I have heard Spain has someof the best food in the world.
Supposed to be beautiful.
I love going to Europe.
We've never been to Spain.
Dave Schmidt (26:27):
That surprises me.
Josh Bretl (26:27):
And I think it would be a lot of fun to go out there.
Dave Schmidt (26:32):
Can I go instead of your kids?
I'll bring you toSweden with me.
Josh Bretl (26:34):
You'll have to convince Missy.
Dave Schmidt (26:35):
Okay.
She loves me.
Josh Bretl (26:37):
She does.
Dave Schmidt (26:38):
Cool.
I like it.
Sweden and Spain.
I mean, they can't bethat far from each other.
Josh Bretl (26:43):
I mean, look on the globe.
It looks so close.
Dave Schmidt (26:47):
Yeah.
You have a globe sittingaround here, by the way, or?
Oh, boy.
Anything else we'remissing today?
Josh Bretl (26:53):
I mean, you're Swedish.
Dave Schmidt (26:55):
Yeah.
Big time Swedish.
Well, hello therefriends, this is Dave.
I am having a break here atthe, uh, FSR Family Room,
and I'd like to come at youwith a little correction
from today's episode.
So, here's the thing.
Uh, Josh asked me where Iwould like to go visit if
(27:17):
money was not an issue,and I mentioned Sweden.
And while Sweden soundslike a lovely place.
And while I do adore Swedishpeople, I'm not Swedish.
I'm actually Norwegian.
My aunt didn't visitSweden, she visited Norway.
My ancestors?
Norwegian.
I dropped the ballbig time on that.
(27:39):
Josh, I had to pickhim off the floor.
He was laughing so hard at me.
So, hey, I'm humbly comingto you with that correction.
Not like any of you care,but look man, I gotta
admit to my mistakes.
I'm Norwegian.
And with that, enjoythe rest of the show.
(28:00):
Dave relates to retirees.
Yeah.
Dave relates to retirees.
Josh, why are youworried about this one?
Josh Bretl (28:08):
Well, because you seem giddy about it
since before we even started.
Dave Schmidt (28:13):
Yeah.
Well, I made an effort togo back to a very specific
story instead of just ramblingabout you buying me stuff.
So when you said annuitiesand how a lot of people
hate them, mostly becausethey're just misunderstood or
misused in their portfolio.
I thought about a time backin high school where our
good friend, Kevin Collins.
Josh Bretl (28:34):
Oh Kevin, we haven't talked about him before.
Dave Schmidt (28:35):
Yeah.
Good Kevin.
Remember he text us when we wereat breakfast the other night?
Josh Bretl (28:37):
Uh-huh.
Dave Schmidt (28:38):
Yeah.
So I've been thinking about him.
But he would drive us aroundand in, we believe it was
probably a Chevy Blazer.
He would drive in-
Josh Bretl (28:46):
major Mark will correct us.
Dave Schmidt (28:47):
Major Mark.
Yeah, Major Tom.
So Kevin would be driving, andit'd be me and Vince in the car.
And I guess you said you doremember some of these times.
Josh Bretl (28:55):
A couple times, not as often as you guys would go.
Dave Schmidt (28:57):
Sure.
So we called these adrive-through shenanigans.
Kevin would pull up toa fast food restaurant,
Wendy's was one of ourfavorites, and he would order.
But he wouldn'tjust order normally.
He would say somethinglike, "Hey yeah, can we get
four bacon cheeseburgers,three [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling]and then two milkshakes?"
(29:19):
And they'd be like, "I'm sorry,what was the second thing?"
He'd be like, "Oh, we justneed three [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling] andthen a couple of milkshakes."
And there wouldalways be a pause.
And I would always be sittingbehind him, and the veins on
his neck were popping becausehe'd be holding in his laughter.
We would all behands on our mouth.
We thought we were thefunniest people ever.
He would just order[Drive-through shenanigans
mumbling] and nobodywould understand what
(29:40):
he is talking about.
I he was alwaysjust misunderstood.
That's just what I thought.
So in this particular exampleJosh, the sweet innocent Wendy's
employees who misheard andmisunderstood Kevin were like a
lot of us out there who we hearthe word annuities we're like,
"What the heck's an annuity?
I don't want thatin my portfolio."
(30:01):
They hear annuity, they might aswell be hearing [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling].
They don't know what it is.
Now, I'm definitely not sayingthat you are responsible
for that confusion, butyou have this deep...
See, you're starting tothink about your full house
moment here and I love it.
But Josh, you are here to helpclear up the misunderstandings
that are annuities.
(30:23):
I'm pretty sureI just nailed it.
So instead of a mic drop,I'm going to do a pen drop.
I just got a pen in my pants.
I got to wash them now.
Josh Bretl (30:32):
It's that one time a year.
Dave Schmidt (30:34):
One time.
Josh Bretl (30:36):
So first off-
Dave Schmidt (30:37):
First off, when we go for lunch later, can
we get some [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling]?
Josh Bretl (30:42):
You worked in the restaurant industry.
Dave Schmidt (30:44):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (30:44):
How mad would you be if Kevin came
in and did that to you?
Dave Schmidt (30:50):
I would absolutely love it.
But no, if I just took my jobtoo seriously, I'd be furious.
Yes.
Josh Bretl (30:57):
And I understand why people who work in the service
industry hate the public.
Because of Kevin.
Dave Schmidt (31:03):
Oh, sure.
So just get a mental imageof his veins popping.
He was trying so hard not to...
Oh, it was so good.
Josh Bretl (31:08):
When you think about it's truly innocent
as it comes in there.
There was nothing bad thathappened there, but I do see
why they would dislike that.
Now, unlike the annuities thatI think are misunderstood,
because people aren't takingthe time to truly understand how
they fit into their situation,Kevin was intentionally
(31:30):
misleading these people.
Dave Schmidt (31:32):
I see.
Josh Bretl (31:33):
Where I'm going with this.
So there's a little bitof a divergence there.
But then I got back into, Iwas thinking about why I talked
about one of those issues wasthe misleading sales practices.
Kevin was using misleadingsales practices against
these poor, innocent Wendy'sdrive-through workers.
When they took a step back,and they could still dislike
(31:54):
Kevin because of him being ahigh school age, little punk.
But in the long run, theyprobably got a smile out
of it, I would think.
I don't know about that.
But as you look at theinnocence as it comes into
play, I hope that Wendy'sdrive-through person eventually
got to smile or at leastroll their eyes at it.
There is somemisunderstanding there.
(32:15):
And I feel like I shouldtie this together a
little bit better somehow.
And I'm trying to see whereI should go with this.
Dave Schmidt (32:20):
I think it's pretty good.
I think they ended up having thelast laugh because all things
being equal, Kevin did havenipple rings in high school.
So they did win that one.
Josh Bretl (32:33):
What was that?
Dave Schmidt (32:35):
I mean, it's true.
It's a fact.
Josh Bretl (32:39):
I feel like this full house moment didn't
connect the way it should have.
Dave Schmidt (32:44):
No.
Because I think when Iso eloquently tie things
together for you, youdon't have much work to do.
Josh Bretl (32:51):
I mean, I should have just shut up and just
said, Dave's pen drop worked.
Dave Schmidt (32:55):
Or maybe we have Kevin on the show to
explain his side of the story.
Josh Bretl (32:59):
Will we understand him?
Dave Schmidt (33:00):
Sure.
Yeah, he's so muchmore mature now.
Josh Bretl (33:03):
He is one of those guys that you look back and
he's super successful right now.
You go, "Man, howis he successful?"
But it's it.
Dave Schmidt (33:10):
Yeah.
Annuities part one.
Annuities part two, we havepeople outside waiting to hear
what you have to say aboutannuities on the next episode.
Josh Bretl (33:20):
I hope Dave, it goes over as well
as you think it will.
Dave Schmidt (33:23):
I think it's going to go over great.
And hey, if not, we can alwaysgo mess with some employees at
the Wendy's down the street.
Josh Bretl (33:30):
Yeah.
Order some [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling].
Dave Schmidt (33:32):
Try it.
I want you to try it.
Have your hand at it.
No?
Josh Bretl (33:34):
No.
You and I weremuch more innocent.
Do you remember our waveto the mailman game or the
wave to strangers game?
Dave Schmidt (33:39):
But we would honk first.
Josh Bretl (33:40):
We'd honk first and we would wave.
Dave Schmidt (33:42):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (33:43):
With a friendly smiley wave.
And we just wanted to see ifpeople would wave back to us.
Dave Schmidt (33:47):
And we kept tally.
Yeah, absolutely.
Josh Bretl (33:49):
And we said, who would always wave back?
Mailmen.
Dave Schmidt (33:51):
Oh, mailmen.
Josh Bretl (33:52):
Mailmen would always wave back to us.
Dave Schmidt (33:54):
Yeah, that's true.
Josh Bretl (33:56):
I felt like that was more innocent
than [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling].
It was still innocent, but...
Dave Schmidt (34:01):
Still at good times.
All right.
You know what, let's getgoing here because we
need to start planning forthe next episode, Josh.
Josh Bretl (34:08):
With that, David...
Dave Schmidt (34:09):
On behalf of Cowboy Mike, who
cannot be with us today.
Josh Bretl (34:14):
Bye.
Dave Schmidt (34:17):
Bye.
Josh Bretl (34:17):
[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]
Dave Schmidt (34:17):
[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]
Alex (34:18):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Dave Schmidt (34:46):
FSR Wealth Management is a registered
investment advisor locatedin Elmhurst, Illinois.
Information and opinionscontained in this audio
have been arrived atby FSR Wealth advisors.
All information herein isfor informational purposes
and should not be construedas investment advice.
It does not constitute an offer,a solicitation or recommendation
to purchase any security.
FSR is not providing legal,tax, accounting, or financial
planning advice in this audio.
These views are as of thedate of this publication
and are subject to change.
I wanted to go through the annuity word
because I am of the beliefthat no single investment or
no single product where youcan put your money, Is ever,
always good or always bad.
If you ever think somethingis always good, no matter
what, you got a problem.
If you think something'salways bad, no matter
what, you got a problem.
(00:21):
There are situations indifferent people's lives that
everything can fit dependingupon on where it goes.
Dave Schmidt (00:27):
Does this sound like you when you
hear the word annuities?
If so, look, we get it.
For years now they'vebeen dissed, maligned and
flat out misunderstood.
Which is why in thisepisode we're setting
the record straight.
Sure.
When it comes toannuities, there are
some very real downsides,
(00:48):
but in addition tooutlining those, you'll
also learn why it's not ablack and white situation.
In other words, as you heardJosh say just a few seconds ago,
Josh Bretl (00:58):
No single investment or no single product where you
can put your money, Is ever,always good or always bad.
Dave Schmidt (01:06):
This episode will help anyone who has shut the
door on annuities to reconsiderthem as an investment option.
One featuring growthas well as safety.
Ooh.
And uh, a trigger warning.
If you're partial to waterchestnuts or have ever worked
in a fast food drive-through
the views expressed by yourco-hosts may be upsetting,
(01:28):
but it's all in good fun.
This is The RetirementEquals Freedom Podcast.
Your host, Josh Bretl, is theowner of FSR Wealth Strategies.
And for the last 20 plusyears, Josh has been helping
fine folks like you gain theconfidence to make retirement
the best part of your life.
And me, who am I?
(01:50):
Thanks for asking.
I'm Dave.
Josh's longtime friend,co-host of the show and
big fan of ordering (drivethru shenanigans mumbling).
You'll learn moreabout that later.
But for now, let me let youlet me end my introduction,
so you can enjoy the show.
(02:26):
Just got to put on my chapstick.
You can't record apodcast with chapped lips.
Josh Bretl (02:32):
You know, it's summertime, and I feel like
chapped lips aren't a thingof summer, but I've had some
really chapped lips recently.
Dave Schmidt (02:39):
Yeah, you've been doing a lot of smooching?
Josh Bretl (02:40):
Yeah.
All that smooching.
If that's the way this is goingto start, that's what it is.
Dave Schmidt (02:48):
It is what it is.
Josh Bretl (02:49):
Big news in our house.
Dave Schmidt (02:51):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (02:52):
Zach got new glasses.
Zach is tiny.
Since birth, he has barelybeen on the growth chart.
On height and weight,he's been less than one
percentile his whole life.
He just needed glassesat a young age.
And his face is so tiny, therewas one pair that fit him.
(03:13):
At that point we went toWalmart to get his glasses.
Someone recommended that becausethey said kids break them all
the time, they lose them, soget a cheap pair of glasses.
And we went to Walmart.
The Walmart guy was great,he fit Zach really well.
Zach never broke hisglasses, never lost them.
The kid is amazing the wayhe takes care of glasses.
About a year and a halflater, his prescription
(03:34):
got updated a little bit.
We go back to the Walmart again,his face has not grown enough to
get any other pairs of glasses.
Dave Schmidt (03:42):
Oh, no.
Same pair?
Josh Bretl (03:44):
Same pair.
So the kid, since kindergartenyear, has had the exact
same pair of glasses.
Dave Schmidt (03:50):
Different lens, same frame.
Josh Bretl (03:51):
Different lens.
We're now going intofourth grade and it's it.
Now, he has an orange and bluelens, so it's like this orange
frame, and it's got a littlebit of blue on the inside.
He looks cute.
It's adorable.
This tiny little face, theselittle glasses on there.
He is going to a differenteye doctor, and he's grown a
little bit and they recommendeda new pair of glasses.
(04:11):
We're like, "Oh dude,you deserve this."
We went and we got him fromthe eye doctor, and he had
a lot more choices to make.
But of course, Zach hadto pick an orange lens.
Dave Schmidt (04:24):
No.
Josh Bretl (04:24):
Or an orange frame, I'm sorry.
But it's a bigger,rounder orange frame.
It's those things that Isaw him this morning as his
glasses for the first time.
I worked last night.
He's had the same thingfor so long that I almost
didn't recognize him thismorning in his new glasses.
Dave Schmidt (04:40):
Oh man.
Does he just not like changeor does he love the frames?
Josh Bretl (04:44):
He likes to try new things, but he doesn't like to
change things that he likes.
Does that make sense?
Dave Schmidt (04:49):
Yeah.
That's deep.
Josh Bretl (04:50):
Yeah.
We have what wecall vacation Zach.
Vacation Zach is thehappiest version and
best version of Zach.
We take him on vacationand he thrives on vacation,
trying new things, doingnew things like that.
Dave Schmidt (05:04):
Does he bring the platypus with him?
Josh Bretl (05:05):
No.
The duck billed platypus?
Dave Schmidt (05:07):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (05:08):
Sean, I'm glad you remember that.
Sean the duck billed platypus.
Oh God, is that funny.
Dave Schmidt (05:14):
Good old Sean.
Josh Bretl (05:15):
How are you?
Dave Schmidt (05:16):
I don't know, Josh.
I'm feeling alittle gloomy today.
Josh Bretl (05:22):
Is there a reason why you're feeling gloomy?
Dave Schmidt (05:24):
For those that listen to episode 39, you
asked the question what I'mlooking forward to this summer?
Josh Bretl (05:29):
I was worried about this.
Dave Schmidt (05:31):
And I answered the Chicago Dog's
game for my birthday.
My birthday was June 4th.
The day before and the dayof, I was down and out.
Felt like poop.
So we rescheduled to last night.
Tuesday, June 13th andthey got rained out.
So Dave's summer, I'm not goingto say it's officially ruined,
(05:54):
but it's kind of off to a...
Josh Bretl (05:56):
Dave, I'll take you to a Dog's game.
You and I, let's go.
Dave Schmidt (05:59):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (06:00):
Yeah, we don't need kids or spouses or anything.
We'll just go watch the Dog's.
Dave Schmidt (06:03):
Should we record video of ourselves
enjoying cocktails and hotdogs at this Dog's game?
Josh Bretl (06:08):
Oh, that sounds like a great idea.
Dave Schmidt (06:09):
Okay, we can start a new segment on the show.
Josh Bretl (06:11):
If you guys could see the smile on
his face occur again.
Dave Schmidt (06:13):
Yeah.
Did that just makeyour day seem me smile?
Josh Bretl (06:16):
It did.
Your dad's been in town for thelast week and you're taking him
to the airport this afternoon,I'm sure that has you down too.
Dave Schmidt (06:23):
It does have me down.
Did I tell you he officiallyrequested to refer to him
as something different now?
Josh Bretl (06:30):
Are we only allowed to call him Big Mike?
Dave Schmidt (06:33):
He likes to now be called Cowboy
Mike from Colorado.
Josh Bretl (06:36):
Why cowboy Mike?
Dave Schmidt (06:39):
You know how us Americans, you watch a few
episodes of Yellowstone andstart drinking a little bit of
bourbon, we think we're cowboys.
So that's what...
Josh Bretl (06:47):
Again, if we were a sports talk show, he wants his
own name associated with him?
Dave Schmidt (06:52):
Absolutely.
To be fair, he showedup from O'Hare.
Carla picked him up whenhe came in wearing a
full-blown cowboy hat witha cow skull on the front.
I'm like, "Wow."
Josh Bretl (07:04):
He lives in Denver.
Dave Schmidt (07:06):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (07:06):
It's not like he's in the Wild West.
He's in Denver.
Dave Schmidt (07:10):
I mean, what are you got to do?
What you going to do?
We all have our personas.
That's it.
Cowboy Mike.
Josh Bretl (07:14):
Oh man.
Dave Schmidt (07:16):
Yeah.
But you know what?
There are three thingsin life that cheer me up.
Pizza, family, Retirement EqualsFreedom podcast recording.
Okay.
So Josh, if I remembercorrectly, you have a
nice little glow going onhere, a nice little tan.
I haven't seen anything belowthe shirt, but I believe
(07:37):
you were just in the lovelycity of San Francisco.
Josh Bretl (07:41):
I was.
And that has nothingto do with the tan.
The tan is all from whenI've been back, but-
Dave Schmidt (07:45):
Oh, why?
You mean-
Josh Bretl (07:46):
Coaching soccer games.
Dave Schmidt (07:46):
And golfing.
Josh Bretl (07:48):
I didn't golf.
Dave Schmidt (07:48):
Oh, I thought you golfed.
Josh Bretl (07:49):
Oh, I did golf once.
Dave Schmidt (07:52):
I mini golfed.
Josh Bretl (07:53):
Oh yeah?
Dave Schmidt (07:53):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (07:54):
You got a tan from that?
Dave Schmidt (07:54):
It was actually the night it was like 59
degrees and everyone'sbundled up and I'm wearing
shorts and a T-shirt.
Josh Bretl (08:00):
There is your weather.
No.
First week out ofschool, we took the kids
out to San Francisco.
I think I mentioned thisin our last podcast.
It was our very first vacationas a family that didn't revolve
around a beach or a theme park.
The kids loved it.
They were rock stars.
They loved San Francisco.
I don't know if you've beenout there to visit Alcatraz?
Dave Schmidt (08:22):
Yes.
We did a tour.
I was probably our kids' age.
Josh Bretl (08:26):
Okay.
Well, it's one of those toursyou take a boat ride out to
the rock off of the shoresof San Francisco, and you
walk up to the jail and theygive you this audio tour
to wear around your head.
And I was a little worriedat how the kids would do.
They rocked it,they just loved it.
They didn't want to leave.
They were listeningto all the stories but
(08:47):
it made me so excited.
It was like, oh, this opensup a whole new world of
vacation possibilities.
And they were rock stars.
They went on a threehour hike with us up
in the Redwood Forest.
They walked throughChinatown and they got to
try some new food and theywere really, really cool.
But vacation Zach came outand we laughed because if
(09:08):
we try to take his picture,if we're here we're like,
"Zach, smile for a picture."
No smile, just is goofy.
Out there he doesn'tstop smiling.
You're like, "Zach, letme take your picture."
He's like the best smile ever.
So Missy and I'll look atour memories of our phones.
We'll be like, "Oh,that must be on vacation
because Zach's smiling."
It was a great vacation.
I know you missedme while I was gone.
(09:29):
I think I mentioned that lasttime on the show that, that
was the longest you and Ihave been apart in a year.
Dave Schmidt (09:34):
I know.
It's unfortunate that we'restarting to do video because
people can see that I am...
Oh, I think I'm at my nineweek mark since a haircut.
It is absolutely all overmy ears and my neck and
it's so uncomfortable.
All I do is I think about, I'mso self-conscious about it.
Josh Bretl (09:50):
Is getting bigger.
Dave Schmidt (09:51):
It's huge.
Josh Bretl (09:52):
You can put product in there and it really goes.
Dave Schmidt (09:55):
I know.
I think tomorrow at one o'clock,I think I'm going to book an
appointment and then show upto the workshop with a new dew.
Josh, in our past, I've hadsome run-ins with annuities.
Josh Bretl (10:07):
You have?
You've run into them.
Dave Schmidt (10:09):
Yeah.
I don't know.
It just sounded like somethingthat sounds like authority.
And so I'm like, "Okay, let'sstart off with that bad joke."
Josh Bretl (10:20):
Well, this is a topic that we've been wanting
to do for a while and I'veavoided it, not because I'm
afraid of it, but because Idon't think any one product or
any one vehicle should get itsown platform that's out there.
Let me back that upand why I say that.
Dave Schmidt (10:40):
Back that thing up, would you?
Josh Bretl (10:42):
Retirement planning itself is a process.
We've spent a lot of timetalking about the process and
how to think about it and theunderlying what you should do.
And we've never evermentioned a product or
a vehicle on this show.
Dave Schmidt: Yeah, you're right. (10:57):
undefined
Josh Bretl (10:58):
We never have.
And I never wantedit to be that way.
Because people that justmention product, and if you
go to one of these workshopsand they just talk about
how the wonders of thisproduct, they're salespeople.
It gives our wholeindustry a bad name.
And I never wanted to talkabout that, but this is one of
(11:19):
those vehicles that whenever Ido recommend something, and by
the time I am working with aclient, making a recommendation,
we have a great rapport.
We've usually had three tofive meetings, and I know
them really well and there'sa trust that's been built up.
And when I make a recommendationto them, they almost
(11:40):
never even think about it.
They're just, "Yeah, ifthat's what you think, that's
what we're going to do."
And that's what I like.
Now, this is one of thoseweird vehicles that people
have heard about or they'veread about, or it's something
that triggers this, not ineverybody, but in some people
this response that is unnatural.
(12:01):
I wanted to go through theannuity word because I am
of the belief that no singleinvestment or no single product
where you can put your money isever always good or always bad.
If you ever think somethingis always good, no matter
what, you got a problem.
If you think something'salways bad, no matter
(12:21):
what, you got a problem.
There are situations indifferent people's lives that
everything can fit dependingupon on where it goes.
Dave Schmidt (12:28):
You mentioned annuities.
It's like how I used tothink about blue cheese and
peas and water chestnuts.
The idea of it's like ewe!
Josh Bretl (12:35):
But now I love, but food is different.
Water chestnuts arejust inherently bad.
Whoever puts-
Dave Schmidt (12:41):
Right.
Those are still bad.
But blue cheese, delicious.
Josh Bretl (12:47):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (12:47):
But I mean blue cheese and annuities,
there's a correlation there.
Josh Bretl (12:52):
Are we getting a peek into your DR2R on here?
Dave Schmidt (12:54):
No.
Oh, thank you for telling me.
You're trying to peek again,let me flip that back over.
Josh Bretl (12:59):
But I wanted to talk today a little bit about
why we don't use annuitiesin different situations.
Dave Schmidt (13:07):
Now, just to set this up, we are planning a two
part series in this, right?
Josh Bretl (13:12):
We are.
Yes.
Today we're going to talkabout all the things that
people see online thatsay hey, why this is bad.
And I'm not trying to defend it.
For some people, annuitiesserve zero purpose in their
portfolio, but there are somepeople that annuities can
add a lot of value to it.
So it really has to go with thewhole process and your situation
and things along those lines.
So today I want to talkabout some of the bad parts
(13:33):
to it, but also reframe ita little bit for people who
should be thinking about ita little bit differently.
Dave Schmidt (13:38):
Let's dig in baby.
Josh Bretl (13:42):
Al right.
The first one is-
Dave Schmidt (13:45):
No, wait.
First, you're listing thereasons people typically
hate annuities or-
Josh Bretl (13:49):
Yeah.
Hate them, and they shouldhate them for these reasons,
but there's also reasonsyou should like them.
So the first one isa lack of liquidity.
So liquidity means how fast youcan get access to your money.
Now, annuities do providea lot of benefits.
There are benefits thatpeople would love to have.
There can bedownside protection.
There can be someguaranteed interest rates.
(14:11):
There can be someincome guarantees.
There's things that people want.
And in order for the insurancecompany to offer these,
what they look for is theylook for the ability to
hold onto your money fora longer period of time.
So liquidity comes into play.
The shortest term might be likea three year liquidity, and
you're not going to get as manybells and whistles as you will
(14:32):
with something that has a 10.
I mean, the longest termI've seen is 16 years.
16 years seems ridiculous.
Who wants to tie theirmoney up for 16 years?
And when I say it like that,that does sound pretty awful.
But when you think about it aspart of a process, if you're
looking for some of thesebenefits that come into play
(14:52):
and you have enough other moneyin other areas doing other
things, for a lot of people,the liquidity may not matter.
I do admit you have totake the liquidity under-
Dave Schmidt (15:03):
Advisement.
Josh Bretl (15:04):
Advisement.
And you have to think about it.
Your hand signals there.
But just because it's illiquiddoesn't make it necessarily bad.
There's a lot of otherilliquid assets out there.
Dave Schmidt (15:17):
Is that a word, illiquid?
Josh Bretl (15:18):
Yeah, it is.
Dave Schmidt (15:18):
Is it really?
Josh Bretl (15:19):
Lack of liquidity.
Illiquid.
Dave Schmidt (15:21):
Wow.
So I said advisement,you said illiquid.
You know what I'mstarting to sense here?
And I'm totallyinterrupting you.
You ever watched Pee-wee'sPlayhouse back in the day?
Josh Bretl (15:28):
Oh yeah.
Dave Schmidt (15:29):
As a word of the day?
Josh Bretl (15:30):
Word of the day.
Dave Schmidt (15:30):
We're going to-
Josh Bretl (15:30):
We're all go crazy?
Dave Schmidt (15:32):
We're going to implement that.
Josh Bretl (15:36):
Yes.
So liquidity is an issue.
I'm not saying it's notan issue, but it's not
something you can't overcome.
The next one, and I seethis scares a lot of
people away, is complexity.
We talked about, on thelast episode, everyone's
looking for simplicity.
Everyone wants it to besimple and easy to understand.
There's a lot that can bevery complex inside some
(15:58):
of these annuity contracts.
If you don't understandit and how it applies to
your situation, I agree.
You should not do it.
But that complexity canalso add benefits to it.
Ask as many questionsas you can, understand
it as best as you can.
And if it's too complexfor you, no, don't do it.
But if it's simple enoughto be able to be used into
(16:21):
your situation and you knowhow it's going to apply for
your personal process, justbecause something's complexed
doesn't mean it shouldn't beapplied to your situation.
Dave Schmidt (16:30):
Just like I am a complex individual,
but you understand me.
Josh Bretl (16:34):
I do.
It's really scary.
Dave Schmidt (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Carry, on my friend.
Josh Bretl (16:39):
Like an annuity, I understand it.
Still scary too.
This one gets a badrap quite a bit.
And this has to do...
It says high fees.
Now when we say high fees,it's specifically talking
about one type of annuity.
Dave Schmidt (16:59):
Ain't nobody got cash for that.
Josh Bretl (17:00):
Yeah.
We haven't used thatdrop in a while.
Dave Schmidt (17:02):
I know.
I've heard of the word fee.
Might as well drop that though.
Josh Bretl (17:05):
There's a type of annuity out there
called a variable annuity.
We're going to talk more aboutthat in the next episode.
And these were developed, Ibelieve in the '80s sometime.
They were builtaround a mutual fund.
A mutual fund has its ownfees, variable annuity
adds fees on top of that.
There may not bea reason for it.
So some people were soldthese annuities, which were
nothing more than the samemutual funds you could have
(17:26):
gotten outside the annuitywith higher fees in it.
That's where that gets the badwrap and effect if anywhere
gets the bad wrap, that'sreally necessary, that is it.
Hands down.
Dave Schmidt (17:34):
Fees.
Josh Bretl (17:35):
Yeah.
But there's other typesof annuities that have
no additional fees.
The fixed annuities that yousee, that we'll talk about
next time, they're no realreally different than a CD
with an insurance company.
So CDs are through banks,annuities are through
insurance companies.
CDs for most people haveno fees built into them.
Those same annuities haveno fees built into them.
(17:56):
So we want to think aboutthat in the same way.
Now, but fees is something youwant to take into consideration.
And they don't all have superhigh fees, but some of them do.
It's a decision making processthat has to go into it and how
it fits into your situation.
Make sense?
Dave Schmidt (18:13):
Yeah.
Josh, of course it does.
Josh Bretl (18:15):
I mean, you're an expert at this stuff.
There are some misleading salespractices that go into it too.
Some of these annuities dopay a high upfront commission
to the person who sells it.
They will sell it at all cost.
(18:37):
They don't care about theperson they're selling it
to, they just want thatmoney that comes in the door.
They don't care about howit fits into your situation.
I have seen numerous peoplethat have come into my office,
they've sat with somebody else,they put them in an annuity
that has zero purpose for whatthey're trying to achieve.
And we have to fix it insome way, shape or form.
(18:59):
So again, I don't necessarilythink annuities are bad,
but they have to be usedfor your specific situation.
People get mad at,there's high commissions.
Well, they're nothigh necessarily.
In fact, if I were to use anannuity for one of my clients,
we actually get paid less overthe long term on an annuity
than we do when we manage theirassets, but there is payment
(19:21):
as that comes into play.
What you want to do is youwant to make sure that the
person that's recommendingit to you does not push
it above everything elsejust because of that.
Dave Schmidt (19:34):
Red flag.
Josh Bretl (19:35):
Red flag, hands down.
I always tell our clients,"Look, I think this fits best
in your situation, but ifyou hate it, we have other
options that we can go to.
And it doesn't matter tome one way or the other.
I'm only going to recommendwhat I think is absolutely
best in your situation."
Dave Schmidt (19:49):
Fiduciary.
Josh Bretl (19:50):
Yeah, it's a huge deal.
So they betterunderstand exactly what
you're getting into.
The last one that I want tobring up and reasons that
people really dislike them,this isn't brought up but
it probably should be, is itdoes reduce some of your tax
(20:10):
options that are out there.
Alex (20:13):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Josh Bretl (20:14):
But people don't think about taxes
with annuities, and withannuities, what we have to
worry about, is how that moneyis going to come out when you
start taking the money out.
There's two things Iwant to think about here.
First off, we've talked alot about Roth conversions.
Sometimes annuities will make itharder to do Roth conversions if
you use them inside of an IRA.
It's not impossible.
(20:35):
You have to structure them alittle bit differently, but you
want to make sure that whoeveryou're working with knows how to
do that, how to structure those.
The second is howannuities are taxed when
they're not in an IRA.
We had an episode all onthe non-qualified accounts.
And those are, you have capitalgains and interest in dividends.
(20:58):
Well qualified dividendsand capital gains actually
have a lower tax rate thanannuity distributions, IRA
distributions, things alongthose lines for most people.
So what we worry about is peoplewho shove a bunch of money into
their non-qualified annuity.
When they go to take thatmoney out, there could be a
tax hit that they weren't awareof, they weren't planning on.
(21:20):
Not saying don't do it.
It has to be taken intoconsideration though.
As you're doing that, makesure you take those taxes
into understanding onhow they get distributed.
And actually different annuitieswill have different taxation
of how the money comes out.
That is something that it'snot talked about too often, but
it's something that you shouldbe looking at if you're looking
at purchasing an annuity.
(21:41):
Make sense?
Dave Schmidt (21:42):
Total.
Josh Bretl (21:42):
Now, Erin wrote in the notes here something
down at the bottom, if someoneis looking for a spot to put
their money, there's threemain areas that they look for.
They're looking for liquidity,they're looking for growth and
they're looking for safety.
And I always say, formost people, any real spot
you can stick your money,we can almost always get
you two out of the three.
(22:03):
We can get youliquidity and growth.
We can get you safety.
It depends on different thingsthat you're looking for, for
the purpose of that money.
So this goes back tounderstanding exactly what that
money is going to be used for.
And then is anannuity a good fit?
Is it not a good fit?
That is totally goingto be dependent upon
(22:24):
your specific situation.
Dave Schmidt (22:27):
That word has tripped you up in the past.
Josh Bretl (22:29):
You see, I slowed down on that?
Dave Schmidt (22:31):
You made a concerted effort.
Another good word, concerted to-
Josh Bretl (22:34):
We are full of big words today.
Dave Schmidt (22:36):
I mean, I'm not going to say that we're
like reading Thesaurus'before we record but we
are recording, reading.
Yeah, we're super smart.
Josh Bretl (22:47):
I think that whole thing should stay in.
That was fantastic.
But I hope you understooda little bit about where
people are coming from andthey have a valid point,
but don't stop there.
You have to understandhow it fits for your
specific situation.
And next week, we're goingto talk about the different
types and when we do usethem, why we use them and
(23:07):
why we should think about it.
So again, nothing's inherentlygood or inherently bad at all
times but it matters how itapplies to your situation.
How was that?
Dave Schmidt (23:20):
For us?
That was short and sweet.
Josh Bretl (23:22):
I'm a little worried about your DR2R.
Dave Schmidt (23:24):
You should not be worried about my DR2R.
Josh Bretl (23:27):
I won't get too worried here.
Dave Schmidt (23:28):
It's always very on point.
I didn't see you for a whilewhile you're in San Francisco,
so I'm starting to kind offorget some things about you.
So I think it's agood time for...
[Singing].
Chickity.
Oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (24:06):
I'm officially running out of bird sounds.
Dave Schmidt (24:08):
That's a repeat.
Josh Bretl (24:09):
Yeah, it is.
Dave Schmidt: That's unacceptable. (24:10):
undefined
Josh Bretl (24:12):
I'm sorry.
There's only so manybird sounds I got in me.
Dave Schmidt (24:15):
All right.
I'm going to get youa bird sound book.
Josh Bretl (24:17):
You know what I'm going to do?
I'm just going to downloada bird song to our machine
here, whatever thisthing is, and we'll play
it every now and then.
Dave Schmidt (24:25):
I'm good with that.
Josh Bretl (24:26):
All right.
Dave Schmidt (24:26):
Cool.
All right.
What you got for me Josh?
Josh Bretl (24:29):
So this question comes from an
idea I had yesterdaywith Brian in our office.
He was saying Southwestjust put all their flights
on sale for 40% off ifyou travel after April or
August 15th or something.
His wife called him andsaid, "Hey, would you like
to go visit your friendin Arizona for a weekend?
Flights are reallycheap right now."
(24:50):
And I thought wow,that's really cool.
That's really nice ofhis wife to do that.
And then I got to thinkingDave, if money was not an
option and you could flyanywhere tomorrow, go on
vacation, where would you go?
Dave Schmidt (25:05):
Scandinavia.
So I'm going to go with Sweden.
Josh Bretl (25:10):
Sweden.
Dave Schmidt (25:10):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (25:10):
Why?
Dave Schmidt (25:11):
Because they're my people.
I've always wantedto visit up there.
I mean, I've never leftthe country except, well
no, Mexico, it's not true.
But never left North America.
Sweden just looksreally beautiful.
And my aunt was theretaking pictures.
She went on thisjust her by herself.
She stayed right on somefjords in these little homes.
(25:32):
And I just, oh it was majestic.
It was amazing.
Josh Bretl (25:35):
Oh, that's cool.
Dave Schmidt (25:35):
And so my grandma's parents
are from there.
Josh Bretl (25:39):
You're Swedish?
Dave Schmidt (25:40):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:40):
I'm 25% Swedish.
Man, I didn't knowthat about you.
Dave Schmidt (25:44):
I know.
That's why we're BFFs.
Josh Bretl (25:45):
Woohoo.
Would you take Carla with you?
Dave Schmidt (25:49):
Absolutely.
I would take Carla and Landon.
Oh yeah, for sure.
And maybe stop at Ikea.
Josh Bretl (25:55):
Just because.
Dave Schmidt (25:56):
Just because yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:59):
Cowboy Mike loves Ikea.
Dave Schmidt (26:00):
Sure does.
Flip it around, reverse it.
How about you, Josh?
Tomorrow, money's not an object.
Where would you guys go?
Josh Bretl (26:06):
Well, I'm not taking the kids on this one.
This would be just Missy and I.
And we have been talkingabout this forever, you
know our love of eating.
Dave Schmidt (26:14):
Your love of eating.
Josh Bretl (26:15):
My love of eating.
We want to go to Spain andeat our way through Spain.
I have heard Spain has someof the best food in the world.
Supposed to be beautiful.
I love going to Europe.
We've never been to Spain.
Dave Schmidt (26:27):
That surprises me.
Josh Bretl (26:27):
And I think it would be a lot of fun to go out there.
Dave Schmidt (26:32):
Can I go instead of your kids?
I'll bring you toSweden with me.
Josh Bretl (26:34):
You'll have to convince Missy.
Dave Schmidt (26:35):
Okay.
She loves me.
Josh Bretl (26:37):
She does.
Dave Schmidt (26:38):
Cool.
I like it.
Sweden and Spain.
I mean, they can't bethat far from each other.
Josh Bretl (26:43):
I mean, look on the globe.
It looks so close.
Dave Schmidt (26:47):
Yeah.
You have a globe sittingaround here, by the way, or?
Oh, boy.
Anything else we'remissing today?
Josh Bretl (26:53):
I mean, you're Swedish.
Dave Schmidt (26:55):
Yeah.
Big time Swedish.
Well, hello therefriends, this is Dave.
I am having a break here atthe, uh, FSR Family Room,
and I'd like to come at youwith a little correction
from today's episode.
So, here's the thing.
Uh, Josh asked me where Iwould like to go visit if
(27:17):
money was not an issue,and I mentioned Sweden.
And while Sweden soundslike a lovely place.
And while I do adore Swedishpeople, I'm not Swedish.
I'm actually Norwegian.
My aunt didn't visitSweden, she visited Norway.
My ancestors?
Norwegian.
I dropped the ballbig time on that.
(27:39):
Josh, I had to pickhim off the floor.
He was laughing so hard at me.
So, hey, I'm humbly comingto you with that correction.
Not like any of you care,but look man, I gotta
admit to my mistakes.
I'm Norwegian.
And with that, enjoythe rest of the show.
(28:00):
Dave relates to retirees.
Yeah.
Dave relates to retirees.
Josh, why are youworried about this one?
Josh Bretl (28:08):
Well, because you seem giddy about it
since before we even started.
Dave Schmidt (28:13):
Yeah.
Well, I made an effort togo back to a very specific
story instead of just ramblingabout you buying me stuff.
So when you said annuitiesand how a lot of people
hate them, mostly becausethey're just misunderstood or
misused in their portfolio.
I thought about a time backin high school where our
good friend, Kevin Collins.
Josh Bretl (28:34):
Oh Kevin, we haven't talked about him before.
Dave Schmidt (28:35):
Yeah.
Good Kevin.
Remember he text us when we wereat breakfast the other night?
Josh Bretl (28:37):
Uh-huh.
Dave Schmidt (28:38):
Yeah.
So I've been thinking about him.
But he would drive us aroundand in, we believe it was
probably a Chevy Blazer.
He would drive in-
Josh Bretl (28:46):
major Mark will correct us.
Dave Schmidt (28:47):
Major Mark.
Yeah, Major Tom.
So Kevin would be driving, andit'd be me and Vince in the car.
And I guess you said you doremember some of these times.
Josh Bretl (28:55):
A couple times, not as often as you guys would go.
Dave Schmidt (28:57):
Sure.
So we called these adrive-through shenanigans.
Kevin would pull up toa fast food restaurant,
Wendy's was one of ourfavorites, and he would order.
But he wouldn'tjust order normally.
He would say somethinglike, "Hey yeah, can we get
four bacon cheeseburgers,three [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling]and then two milkshakes?"
(29:19):
And they'd be like, "I'm sorry,what was the second thing?"
He'd be like, "Oh, we justneed three [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling] andthen a couple of milkshakes."
And there wouldalways be a pause.
And I would always be sittingbehind him, and the veins on
his neck were popping becausehe'd be holding in his laughter.
We would all behands on our mouth.
We thought we were thefunniest people ever.
He would just order[Drive-through shenanigans
mumbling] and nobodywould understand what
(29:40):
he is talking about.
I he was alwaysjust misunderstood.
That's just what I thought.
So in this particular exampleJosh, the sweet innocent Wendy's
employees who misheard andmisunderstood Kevin were like a
lot of us out there who we hearthe word annuities we're like,
"What the heck's an annuity?
I don't want thatin my portfolio."
(30:01):
They hear annuity, they might aswell be hearing [Drive-through
shenanigans mumbling].
They don't know what it is.
Now, I'm definitely not sayingthat you are responsible
for that confusion, butyou have this deep...
See, you're starting tothink about your full house
moment here and I love it.
But Josh, you are here to helpclear up the misunderstandings
that are annuities.
(30:23):
I'm pretty sureI just nailed it.
So instead of a mic drop,I'm going to do a pen drop.
I just got a pen in my pants.
I got to wash them now.
Josh Bretl (30:32):
It's that one time a year.
Dave Schmidt (30:34):
One time.
Josh Bretl (30:36):
So first off-
Dave Schmidt (30:37):
First off, when we go for lunch later, can
we get some [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling]?
Josh Bretl (30:42):
You worked in the restaurant industry.
Dave Schmidt (30:44):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (30:44):
How mad would you be if Kevin came
in and did that to you?
Dave Schmidt (30:50):
I would absolutely love it.
But no, if I just took my jobtoo seriously, I'd be furious.
Yes.
Josh Bretl (30:57):
And I understand why people who work in the service
industry hate the public.
Because of Kevin.
Dave Schmidt (31:03):
Oh, sure.
So just get a mental imageof his veins popping.
He was trying so hard not to...
Oh, it was so good.
Josh Bretl (31:08):
When you think about it's truly innocent
as it comes in there.
There was nothing bad thathappened there, but I do see
why they would dislike that.
Now, unlike the annuities thatI think are misunderstood,
because people aren't takingthe time to truly understand how
they fit into their situation,Kevin was intentionally
(31:30):
misleading these people.
Dave Schmidt (31:32):
I see.
Josh Bretl (31:33):
Where I'm going with this.
So there's a little bitof a divergence there.
But then I got back into, Iwas thinking about why I talked
about one of those issues wasthe misleading sales practices.
Kevin was using misleadingsales practices against
these poor, innocent Wendy'sdrive-through workers.
When they took a step back,and they could still dislike
(31:54):
Kevin because of him being ahigh school age, little punk.
But in the long run, theyprobably got a smile out
of it, I would think.
I don't know about that.
But as you look at theinnocence as it comes into
play, I hope that Wendy'sdrive-through person eventually
got to smile or at leastroll their eyes at it.
There is somemisunderstanding there.
(32:15):
And I feel like I shouldtie this together a
little bit better somehow.
And I'm trying to see whereI should go with this.
Dave Schmidt (32:20):
I think it's pretty good.
I think they ended up having thelast laugh because all things
being equal, Kevin did havenipple rings in high school.
So they did win that one.
Josh Bretl (32:33):
What was that?
Dave Schmidt (32:35):
I mean, it's true.
It's a fact.
Josh Bretl (32:39):
I feel like this full house moment didn't
connect the way it should have.
Dave Schmidt (32:44):
No.
Because I think when Iso eloquently tie things
together for you, youdon't have much work to do.
Josh Bretl (32:51):
I mean, I should have just shut up and just
said, Dave's pen drop worked.
Dave Schmidt (32:55):
Or maybe we have Kevin on the show to
explain his side of the story.
Josh Bretl (32:59):
Will we understand him?
Dave Schmidt (33:00):
Sure.
Yeah, he's so muchmore mature now.
Josh Bretl (33:03):
He is one of those guys that you look back and
he's super successful right now.
You go, "Man, howis he successful?"
But it's it.
Dave Schmidt (33:10):
Yeah.
Annuities part one.
Annuities part two, we havepeople outside waiting to hear
what you have to say aboutannuities on the next episode.
Josh Bretl (33:20):
I hope Dave, it goes over as well
as you think it will.
Dave Schmidt (33:23):
I think it's going to go over great.
And hey, if not, we can alwaysgo mess with some employees at
the Wendy's down the street.
Josh Bretl (33:30):
Yeah.
Order some [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling].
Dave Schmidt (33:32):
Try it.
I want you to try it.
Have your hand at it.
No?
Josh Bretl (33:34):
No.
You and I weremuch more innocent.
Do you remember our waveto the mailman game or the
wave to strangers game?
Dave Schmidt (33:39):
But we would honk first.
Josh Bretl (33:40):
We'd honk first and we would wave.
Dave Schmidt (33:42):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (33:43):
With a friendly smiley wave.
And we just wanted to see ifpeople would wave back to us.
Dave Schmidt (33:47):
And we kept tally.
Yeah, absolutely.
Josh Bretl (33:49):
And we said, who would always wave back?
Mailmen.
Dave Schmidt (33:51):
Oh, mailmen.
Josh Bretl (33:52):
Mailmen would always wave back to us.
Dave Schmidt (33:54):
Yeah, that's true.
Josh Bretl (33:56):
I felt like that was more innocent
than [Drive-throughshenanigans mumbling].
It was still innocent, but...
Dave Schmidt (34:01):
Still at good times.
All right.
You know what, let's getgoing here because we
need to start planning forthe next episode, Josh.
Josh Bretl (34:08):
With that, David...
Dave Schmidt (34:09):
On behalf of Cowboy Mike, who
cannot be with us today.
Josh Bretl (34:14):
Bye.
Dave Schmidt (34:17):
Bye.
Josh Bretl (34:17):
[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]
Dave Schmidt (34:17):
[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]
Alex (34:18):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Dave Schmidt (34:46):
FSR Wealth Management is a registered
investment advisor locatedin Elmhurst, Illinois.
Information and opinionscontained in this audio
have been arrived atby FSR Wealth advisors.
All information herein isfor informational purposes
and should not be construedas investment advice.
It does not constitute an offer,a solicitation or recommendation
to purchase any security.
FSR is not providing legal,tax, accounting, or financial
planning advice in this audio.
These views are as of thedate of this publication
and are subject to change.
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