June 26, 2024 • 12 mins
In this episode of Revenue Roadmap, Anthony Karls and JP VanderLinden of Rocket Clicks, dive into the world of paid media. They discuss the differences between digital and offline media, the importance of targeted advertising, and how small business owners can optimize their advertising strategy to drive revenue and gather valuable customer insights.
00:00 Introduction to Revenue Roadmap
00:21 Understanding Paid Media
01:26 Digital vs. Offline Media
02:57 The Value of Buying Media
04:51 Learning from Paid Media
07:18 Empowering Small Business Owners
09:50 Key Metrics and Business Impact
11:57 Conclusion and Next Steps
Check out our blog here!
#DigitalMarketing #Sales #BusinessGrowth
00:00 Introduction to Revenue Roadmap
00:21 Understanding Paid Media
01:26 Digital vs. Offline Media
02:57 The Value of Buying Media
04:51 Learning from Paid Media
07:18 Empowering Small Business Owners
09:50 Key Metrics and Business Impact
11:57 Conclusion and Next Steps
Check out our blog here!
#DigitalMarketing #Sales #BusinessGrowth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anthony Karls (00:01):
All right.
Welcome.
Welcome.
So this is Revenue Roadmap wherewe talk about sales and
marketing for localentrepreneurs.
So I'm Anthony Carls, presidenthere at RocketClicks.
Today I am with our head of paidmedia.
He's also number two of clientservice overall here at
RocketClicks.
JP.
So thank you for being here withus today, JP.
So today we are going to talk ata pretty high level about paid
(00:25):
media.
And just get a betterunderstanding of it.
What's the difference betweendigital and offline.
We're going to talk like we doin every episode here.
We're going to talk about whythis is important to driving
revenue for you as a smallbusiness and how you can be more
empowered.
To hold the people that youeither have internally or the
agency you're working with, holdthem more accountable in this
(00:46):
specific area.
So, so JP, what is, paid mediaoverall?
Like, how
JP VanderLinden (00:50):
Newspapers, billboards, things of that
nature.
And then more currently we'retalking about digital paid
media.
So this is anytime you're buyingmedia placing your ads on the
internet.
So this can show up on you know,your favorite sites where you're
reading articles.
And there are like ads in themiddle of it.
There's little banner ads.
These can show up in search.
Search results, paid search ads,as well as on your favorite
(01:11):
social platform.
So you may have seen these onLinkedIn, or if you've been on
Facebook or Instagram, they'llshow up there.
So a lot of different ways thisshows up but all functionally
the same opportunity of payingto put your message in front of
potential users.
Anthony Karls (01:25):
Nice.
So, what is the, what's thebiggest difference between and
offline from your perspective?
Like, What are, what does thatlook like, you know, billboard
compared to a Facebook ad?
Like, Just tell me what's
JP VanderLinden (01:38):
Yeah.
So the biggest difference is ifyou're going to, if you're going
to buy your media offline you'regoing to have limited ability to
target who your ad is going tobe seen by.
So if you buy through a localmedia station or you buy a
billboard or something of thatnature, you're going to show it
to everybody who's, you know,watching Channel 5 at 7 PM or is
driving down the 405 which somepercentage of them are going to
(02:00):
be your potential customers.
But a big percentage are not.
And so there's a lot of waste indoing that.
Digital media is very targeted.
So when you buy an online ad,you get to pick who it serves
to.
That's a huge advantage becauseyou can know that, you know, 50,
60, 80 percent of who you'regoing to show your ad to is the
right person.
Who's can potentially buy yourservice, whether that's a
geographic limit within miles ofyour store, whether that's a
(02:24):
certain job title or interestdemographics, something to say
this is the right person to seemy ad.
That specific targeting is ahuge superpower of buying your
ads online versus offline.
Anthony Karls (02:35):
So offline traditional buys are.
There's a lot more waste in inthose buys because you're not
very specific online.
You need to be way more specificand the percentage of the
audience that is relevant toyour product is likely.
Way higher, kind of the overall,
JP VanderLinden (02:53):
Absolutely.
Anthony Karls (02:54):
What do you, what buying when we're talking about
media?
Like, what does that actuallymean?
JP VanderLinden (02:56):
Yeah.
So unfortunately the way thishas been marketed for a long
time is like a weird vendingmachine where you're going to
put in a dollar and you're goingto get a certain number of
dollars back out of it.
And as long as that math stillworks, you should keep doing it.
So it's very like bottom lineand revenue focus.
And that's the only reason thatyou would buy ads is basically
to buy revenue dollars.
(03:17):
Now, not to say that revenueisn't an outcome and a byproduct
of what you're doing, but whatyou're actually buying when you
buy ads, really of any type, butespecially if digital is you're
buying attention and you'rebuying data.
So, you're paying to get infront of somebody.
And then they're going to dosomething and unlike that
billboard or that radio ad wetalked about, you're going to,
(03:39):
you're going to see data on whatthey actually did, how many
people clicked, how many went toyour website, how many pages
they looked at how many peoplewatched your video to 25, 50,
75%, whatever the engagementlooks like, you're going to get
some really interesting databack.
And so, what this does is itallows you to.
Essentially run market researchabout your customer because
(04:01):
remember, we're only showing upto the people who we think are
going to be good prospects.
Now we're saying I'm in front ofthis prospect.
How do they respond to the redimage versus the blue image or
the long copy versus the shortcopy?
And you get this data back.
It teaches you It really teachesyou about your customer, what
they like, what they don't like.
And you don't have to spend alot of money to do this.
(04:22):
Like you can put a few hundreddollars behind a test and get
something back.
Super fast.
You didn't have to schedule afocus group.
You didn't have to call a bunchof people.
It's just instant market data,which is.
hugely valuable to the entiretyof your marketing engine and
your business as a whole.
So it's a little bit differentthan I think most people think
about it from like revenueversus attention and data.
But it's been what we've learnedover, like you said, you know,
(04:44):
I've been doing this for around15 years as well.
And that's been the constanttakeaway is when you view it
that way it can be way morepowerful for growing your
business.
Anthony Karls (04:51):
So how does revenue fit in then?
Cause it's obviously it'simportant, but like if you're
primarily purchasing data, likewe talk about it is, revenue fit
into that because obviouslyrevenue is part of it.
JP VanderLinden (05:02):
Yeah.
So, again, let's go through thescenario of we're running tests.
Every time you're launching adsor campaigns or like you should
be intentionally trying to learnsomething from what you're
running when you run the redversus the blue image, you want
to know, do my customers tend toprefer red versus blue.
So you get that data back in thenext test.
You're going to run, you're notgoing to retest red versus blue.
(05:24):
Nope.
Hey, they preferred the blueimage.
Guess what I'm gonna do?
I'm going to say light blueversus dark blue, and you're
going to get more and morerefined.
The more you refine yourmessage, the better it's going
to perform.
And so a natural outcome of thisconstant buying of data and
learning is that you're going toget better results because
you're going to be putting infront of your potential buyer
(05:45):
What they need at the right timethat just perfectly resonates
like if you've ever if you'veever had a moment where an ad
just showed up in front of youand you're like that's exactly
the pain I'm experiencing.
And you click and you followthat's because they tested to
figure that out.
And they earned the opportunityto get your business.
And so if you do this the rightway, Okay.
You're going to get revenue asalmost a byproduct of being
(06:09):
better with your messaging.
The other thing I'd say though,is that's, I consider that
direct revenue, right?
Direct revenue impact from theads that you're buying.
The other benefit is, This datashould feed back into the other
marketing that you're doing.
So when you learn that yourcustomers prefer blue versus
red, well, you know, that shouldaffect what you're doing with
the uniforms that you buy foryour staff.
(06:30):
That should affect how you, youknow, what you put on your print
media your flyers that you'resending out, your direct mail.
It should affect the signagethat you're going to put in your
store, because this is like auniversal, thing you're learning
about your customer.
So not only does directly driverevenue, but it should impact
the conversion rate of an instore experience or another
offline marketing campaign.
(06:50):
So it's a really a virtuouscycle of like self fulfilling
and self feeding benefit acrossthe board when you do this well.
Anthony Karls (06:56):
So when you, when you're purchasing the data
through paid media, a by productof that is revenue as, and
revenue opportunities andoptimization opportunities
throughout your whole business.
JP VanderLinden (07:08):
Yeah, exactly.
You're speaking your customer'slanguage, the right message at
the right time.
The only possible outcome ofdoing that better over time is
your whole business is going tobenefit.
Anthony Karls (07:18):
So why is understanding this really
important for a small businessowner
JP VanderLinden (07:21):
Yeah.
So at the end of the day, whenyou buy media, when you do these
kinds of things, like it has tobe directly impactful on your
business.
It has to move the needle onrevenue.
And so like thinking about thisin the wrong way is a great way
to waste a bunch of money.
And there's a lot of companiesout there that will run ads for
you.
A lot of people out there whorun ads for you waste your money
and not get you these learningsand findings.
(07:41):
So when you think about youknow, what you're looking for as
a result of this, the firstthing you're looking for is
insights.
And improvements in the strategyand optimization.
And so, what this means for youas a small business owner,
who's, you know, maybe workingwith freelancers, maybe working
with agencies maybe even workingwith in house team members who
are doing this type of work isyou should be expecting them to
(08:04):
feed you back, not just data.
Hey, here's how many sales wegot.
Here's how many leads we got.
But more than that, what did welearn?
And as a result of learningthat, what are we going to do?
What is the bigger strategytakeaway from this?
What are we going to keep doing?
What are we going to stop doing?
And what are we going to startdoing you know, in the next 30
(08:24):
days, 60 days, 90 days, as aresult of this learning that I
just paid for this data that Ijust purchased.
Anthony Karls (08:31):
So the very beginning, it sounds like if you
don't have around something thatyou're trying to learn, probably
starting off in the wrong spot
JP VanderLinden (08:39):
Exactly.
You're almost operating in ascience mindset of going in with
a hypothesis and knowing whatyou're going to learn before you
come out.
I'm either going to be right orwrong, but I know what I'm going
to know at the end.
And having that expectationreally helps you say I know what
I should be getting back fromthese efforts.
Anthony Karls (08:53):
how can you empower me as a small business
owner?
keep it simple for me.
what should I be looking for?
JP VanderLinden (08:58):
Yep.
So, we kind of started to talkabout this a little bit a moment
ago, but just the idea of okay.
Whoever's running your paidmedia should be able to tell you
what they're trying to learnbefore they do it.
So there should be a backwardscomponent of what we did learn
and then what we want to learnnext, a forward looking
component.
So every time you're meetingwith them in you know, two
(09:19):
minutes, You should be able toget a super fast download of
here's what we learned, here'swhat we're doing because of it.
That should be the mostimportant thing to talk about,
and then the data will supportthat.
You probably don't want to gothrough, you know, pages and
pages of screenshots and reportsand graphs and charts and things
like that.
Just really quick, what did welearn?
What are we going to do as aresult of it?
(09:40):
Like, where are we going next?
So that's probably the easiestand most important thing to look
for in, in all of yourreporting.
And all your strategyconversations like that should
be the core of what you'retrying to accomplish.
The 2nd piece, I would say youmentioned revenue.
there needs to be alignment onwhat the impact is to revenue.
And so again, it's it's reallyeasy to get buried in the weeds
(10:03):
of there's so much dataavailable.
And so much of it is not helpfulto the conversation for you as a
small business owner, you don'tcare about click through rates
or CPCs or impression rates.
That's just a lot of extra timeand space that you don't need to
dedicate to it instead.
It's about, okay, what's theimpact to revenue.
So those things are telling youwhat we learned and what we're
going to do next.
(10:24):
There should be a connectionbetween, because we learned
this, here's how we can.
Impact revenue, which means theyshould be looking at revenue.
They should be looking at leads.
They should be looking at sales.
They should be looking atappointments booked.
There should be some connection,not just for digital KPIs, but
those actual business KPIs.
If this, if the conversationdoesn't center around those
(10:46):
learnings and the connection tothose business KPIs, that's a
huge red flag.
I'd be really digging in there.
Okay.
So if I'm, if all I'm hearingabout is like platform metrics
and all the things you rattledoff there, I should probably be
concerned because.
not talking about a, what did Ilearn?
And B because of what I learned,this is how we can continue on
(11:06):
and how this impacts revenuedirectly.
And the preference is like, howdoes this really feed into like
what we call here at Rocketflixa business waterfall?
How does our efforts impactleads?
How do those leads flow downinto appointments?
How do those appointments turninto actual sales?
Are those sales worth, worth theinvestment of what we're paying
for?
Yeah, a good sign that this isbeing done well is your paid
(11:28):
media folks, whoever's runningthat, your agents, whoever is
pushing you for access to yourbusiness data.
They're pushing for sales data.
They're pushing for lead qualitydata.
They want to understand what'sworking and not working, not
just from getting websitetraffic or clicks, but What is
actually impacting that businesswaterfall that you talked about?
If they're not asking thosequestions then they're not
(11:50):
thinking about it.
And so then it becomes incumbenton you to kind of challenge
whether they're focused on theright things.
Anthony Karls (11:56):
Awesome.
Well, it's been super helpful,JP.
Appreciate you being willing toshare with us some high level
thoughts on paid search and kindof how you, you can empower
small business owners that areengaged with the paid media
person generally.
And we'll get into channelspecific stuff later.
So I think it's been superhelpful.
So I appreciate, appreciate yourtime here today.
JP VanderLinden (12:12):
Thanks so much.
Had a blast.
All right.
Welcome.
Welcome.
So this is Revenue Roadmap wherewe talk about sales and
marketing for localentrepreneurs.
So I'm Anthony Carls, presidenthere at RocketClicks.
Today I am with our head of paidmedia.
He's also number two of clientservice overall here at
RocketClicks.
JP.
So thank you for being here withus today, JP.
So today we are going to talk ata pretty high level about paid
(00:25):
media.
And just get a betterunderstanding of it.
What's the difference betweendigital and offline.
We're going to talk like we doin every episode here.
We're going to talk about whythis is important to driving
revenue for you as a smallbusiness and how you can be more
empowered.
To hold the people that youeither have internally or the
agency you're working with, holdthem more accountable in this
(00:46):
specific area.
So, so JP, what is, paid mediaoverall?
Like, how
JP VanderLinden (00:50):
Newspapers, billboards, things of that
nature.
And then more currently we'retalking about digital paid
media.
So this is anytime you're buyingmedia placing your ads on the
internet.
So this can show up on you know,your favorite sites where you're
reading articles.
And there are like ads in themiddle of it.
There's little banner ads.
These can show up in search.
Search results, paid search ads,as well as on your favorite
(01:11):
social platform.
So you may have seen these onLinkedIn, or if you've been on
Facebook or Instagram, they'llshow up there.
So a lot of different ways thisshows up but all functionally
the same opportunity of payingto put your message in front of
potential users.
Anthony Karls (01:25):
Nice.
So, what is the, what's thebiggest difference between and
offline from your perspective?
Like, What are, what does thatlook like, you know, billboard
compared to a Facebook ad?
Like, Just tell me what's
JP VanderLinden (01:38):
Yeah.
So the biggest difference is ifyou're going to, if you're going
to buy your media offline you'regoing to have limited ability to
target who your ad is going tobe seen by.
So if you buy through a localmedia station or you buy a
billboard or something of thatnature, you're going to show it
to everybody who's, you know,watching Channel 5 at 7 PM or is
driving down the 405 which somepercentage of them are going to
(02:00):
be your potential customers.
But a big percentage are not.
And so there's a lot of waste indoing that.
Digital media is very targeted.
So when you buy an online ad,you get to pick who it serves
to.
That's a huge advantage becauseyou can know that, you know, 50,
60, 80 percent of who you'regoing to show your ad to is the
right person.
Who's can potentially buy yourservice, whether that's a
geographic limit within miles ofyour store, whether that's a
(02:24):
certain job title or interestdemographics, something to say
this is the right person to seemy ad.
That specific targeting is ahuge superpower of buying your
ads online versus offline.
Anthony Karls (02:35):
So offline traditional buys are.
There's a lot more waste in inthose buys because you're not
very specific online.
You need to be way more specificand the percentage of the
audience that is relevant toyour product is likely.
Way higher, kind of the overall,
JP VanderLinden (02:53):
Absolutely.
Anthony Karls (02:54):
What do you, what buying when we're talking about
media?
Like, what does that actuallymean?
JP VanderLinden (02:56):
Yeah.
So unfortunately the way thishas been marketed for a long
time is like a weird vendingmachine where you're going to
put in a dollar and you're goingto get a certain number of
dollars back out of it.
And as long as that math stillworks, you should keep doing it.
So it's very like bottom lineand revenue focus.
And that's the only reason thatyou would buy ads is basically
to buy revenue dollars.
(03:17):
Now, not to say that revenueisn't an outcome and a byproduct
of what you're doing, but whatyou're actually buying when you
buy ads, really of any type, butespecially if digital is you're
buying attention and you'rebuying data.
So, you're paying to get infront of somebody.
And then they're going to dosomething and unlike that
billboard or that radio ad wetalked about, you're going to,
(03:39):
you're going to see data on whatthey actually did, how many
people clicked, how many went toyour website, how many pages
they looked at how many peoplewatched your video to 25, 50,
75%, whatever the engagementlooks like, you're going to get
some really interesting databack.
And so, what this does is itallows you to.
Essentially run market researchabout your customer because
(04:01):
remember, we're only showing upto the people who we think are
going to be good prospects.
Now we're saying I'm in front ofthis prospect.
How do they respond to the redimage versus the blue image or
the long copy versus the shortcopy?
And you get this data back.
It teaches you It really teachesyou about your customer, what
they like, what they don't like.
And you don't have to spend alot of money to do this.
(04:22):
Like you can put a few hundreddollars behind a test and get
something back.
Super fast.
You didn't have to schedule afocus group.
You didn't have to call a bunchof people.
It's just instant market data,which is.
hugely valuable to the entiretyof your marketing engine and
your business as a whole.
So it's a little bit differentthan I think most people think
about it from like revenueversus attention and data.
But it's been what we've learnedover, like you said, you know,
(04:44):
I've been doing this for around15 years as well.
And that's been the constanttakeaway is when you view it
that way it can be way morepowerful for growing your
business.
Anthony Karls (04:51):
So how does revenue fit in then?
Cause it's obviously it'simportant, but like if you're
primarily purchasing data, likewe talk about it is, revenue fit
into that because obviouslyrevenue is part of it.
JP VanderLinden (05:02):
Yeah.
So, again, let's go through thescenario of we're running tests.
Every time you're launching adsor campaigns or like you should
be intentionally trying to learnsomething from what you're
running when you run the redversus the blue image, you want
to know, do my customers tend toprefer red versus blue.
So you get that data back in thenext test.
You're going to run, you're notgoing to retest red versus blue.
(05:24):
Nope.
Hey, they preferred the blueimage.
Guess what I'm gonna do?
I'm going to say light blueversus dark blue, and you're
going to get more and morerefined.
The more you refine yourmessage, the better it's going
to perform.
And so a natural outcome of thisconstant buying of data and
learning is that you're going toget better results because
you're going to be putting infront of your potential buyer
(05:45):
What they need at the right timethat just perfectly resonates
like if you've ever if you'veever had a moment where an ad
just showed up in front of youand you're like that's exactly
the pain I'm experiencing.
And you click and you followthat's because they tested to
figure that out.
And they earned the opportunityto get your business.
And so if you do this the rightway, Okay.
You're going to get revenue asalmost a byproduct of being
(06:09):
better with your messaging.
The other thing I'd say though,is that's, I consider that
direct revenue, right?
Direct revenue impact from theads that you're buying.
The other benefit is, This datashould feed back into the other
marketing that you're doing.
So when you learn that yourcustomers prefer blue versus
red, well, you know, that shouldaffect what you're doing with
the uniforms that you buy foryour staff.
(06:30):
That should affect how you, youknow, what you put on your print
media your flyers that you'resending out, your direct mail.
It should affect the signagethat you're going to put in your
store, because this is like auniversal, thing you're learning
about your customer.
So not only does directly driverevenue, but it should impact
the conversion rate of an instore experience or another
offline marketing campaign.
(06:50):
So it's a really a virtuouscycle of like self fulfilling
and self feeding benefit acrossthe board when you do this well.
Anthony Karls (06:56):
So when you, when you're purchasing the data
through paid media, a by productof that is revenue as, and
revenue opportunities andoptimization opportunities
throughout your whole business.
JP VanderLinden (07:08):
Yeah, exactly.
You're speaking your customer'slanguage, the right message at
the right time.
The only possible outcome ofdoing that better over time is
your whole business is going tobenefit.
Anthony Karls (07:18):
So why is understanding this really
important for a small businessowner
JP VanderLinden (07:21):
Yeah.
So at the end of the day, whenyou buy media, when you do these
kinds of things, like it has tobe directly impactful on your
business.
It has to move the needle onrevenue.
And so like thinking about thisin the wrong way is a great way
to waste a bunch of money.
And there's a lot of companiesout there that will run ads for
you.
A lot of people out there whorun ads for you waste your money
and not get you these learningsand findings.
(07:41):
So when you think about youknow, what you're looking for as
a result of this, the firstthing you're looking for is
insights.
And improvements in the strategyand optimization.
And so, what this means for youas a small business owner,
who's, you know, maybe workingwith freelancers, maybe working
with agencies maybe even workingwith in house team members who
are doing this type of work isyou should be expecting them to
(08:04):
feed you back, not just data.
Hey, here's how many sales wegot.
Here's how many leads we got.
But more than that, what did welearn?
And as a result of learningthat, what are we going to do?
What is the bigger strategytakeaway from this?
What are we going to keep doing?
What are we going to stop doing?
And what are we going to startdoing you know, in the next 30
(08:24):
days, 60 days, 90 days, as aresult of this learning that I
just paid for this data that Ijust purchased.
Anthony Karls (08:31):
So the very beginning, it sounds like if you
don't have around something thatyou're trying to learn, probably
starting off in the wrong spot
JP VanderLinden (08:39):
Exactly.
You're almost operating in ascience mindset of going in with
a hypothesis and knowing whatyou're going to learn before you
come out.
I'm either going to be right orwrong, but I know what I'm going
to know at the end.
And having that expectationreally helps you say I know what
I should be getting back fromthese efforts.
Anthony Karls (08:53):
how can you empower me as a small business
owner?
keep it simple for me.
what should I be looking for?
JP VanderLinden (08:58):
Yep.
So, we kind of started to talkabout this a little bit a moment
ago, but just the idea of okay.
Whoever's running your paidmedia should be able to tell you
what they're trying to learnbefore they do it.
So there should be a backwardscomponent of what we did learn
and then what we want to learnnext, a forward looking
component.
So every time you're meetingwith them in you know, two
(09:19):
minutes, You should be able toget a super fast download of
here's what we learned, here'swhat we're doing because of it.
That should be the mostimportant thing to talk about,
and then the data will supportthat.
You probably don't want to gothrough, you know, pages and
pages of screenshots and reportsand graphs and charts and things
like that.
Just really quick, what did welearn?
What are we going to do as aresult of it?
(09:40):
Like, where are we going next?
So that's probably the easiestand most important thing to look
for in, in all of yourreporting.
And all your strategyconversations like that should
be the core of what you'retrying to accomplish.
The 2nd piece, I would say youmentioned revenue.
there needs to be alignment onwhat the impact is to revenue.
And so again, it's it's reallyeasy to get buried in the weeds
(10:03):
of there's so much dataavailable.
And so much of it is not helpfulto the conversation for you as a
small business owner, you don'tcare about click through rates
or CPCs or impression rates.
That's just a lot of extra timeand space that you don't need to
dedicate to it instead.
It's about, okay, what's theimpact to revenue.
So those things are telling youwhat we learned and what we're
going to do next.
(10:24):
There should be a connectionbetween, because we learned
this, here's how we can.
Impact revenue, which means theyshould be looking at revenue.
They should be looking at leads.
They should be looking at sales.
They should be looking atappointments booked.
There should be some connection,not just for digital KPIs, but
those actual business KPIs.
If this, if the conversationdoesn't center around those
(10:46):
learnings and the connection tothose business KPIs, that's a
huge red flag.
I'd be really digging in there.
Okay.
So if I'm, if all I'm hearingabout is like platform metrics
and all the things you rattledoff there, I should probably be
concerned because.
not talking about a, what did Ilearn?
And B because of what I learned,this is how we can continue on
(11:06):
and how this impacts revenuedirectly.
And the preference is like, howdoes this really feed into like
what we call here at Rocketflixa business waterfall?
How does our efforts impactleads?
How do those leads flow downinto appointments?
How do those appointments turninto actual sales?
Are those sales worth, worth theinvestment of what we're paying
for?
Yeah, a good sign that this isbeing done well is your paid
(11:28):
media folks, whoever's runningthat, your agents, whoever is
pushing you for access to yourbusiness data.
They're pushing for sales data.
They're pushing for lead qualitydata.
They want to understand what'sworking and not working, not
just from getting websitetraffic or clicks, but What is
actually impacting that businesswaterfall that you talked about?
If they're not asking thosequestions then they're not
(11:50):
thinking about it.
And so then it becomes incumbenton you to kind of challenge
whether they're focused on theright things.
Anthony Karls (11:56):
Awesome.
Well, it's been super helpful,JP.
Appreciate you being willing toshare with us some high level
thoughts on paid search and kindof how you, you can empower
small business owners that areengaged with the paid media
person generally.
And we'll get into channelspecific stuff later.
So I think it's been superhelpful.
So I appreciate, appreciate yourtime here today.
JP VanderLinden (12:12):
Thanks so much.
Had a blast.
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