August 7, 2024 • 22 mins
Join Anthony Karls and Matt Hacker as they discuss the 'Giant' leadership training program at Rocket Clicks. Learn how this initiative helps improve team communication, culture, and ultimately drive revenue for local entrepreneurs. Matt shares his journey in marketing and leadership, emphasizing the importance of a unified language within teams.
00:00 Introduction to Revenue Roadmap
00:12 Meet Matt Hawker: SEO Expert and Leadership Coach
00:32 Leadership Culture at RocketClicks
00:44 Understanding the Giant Program
01:02 Matt's Journey in Marketing and Leadership
03:38 The Importance of a Common Language in Teams
05:22 The Five Voices Assessment
08:54 Implementing Giant at RocketClicks
10:55 The Impact of Giant on Team Dynamics
13:12 Why Leadership Training Matters for Small Businesses
17:37 Signs of Effective Communication and Culture
20:02 Leadership's Role in Giant's Success
22:02 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anthony Karls (00:03):
All right, here we go.
Welcome.
Welcome.
So this is revenue roadmap wherewe talk about sales and
marketing for localentrepreneurs.
I'm Anthony Carl's president ofrocket clicks today.
I am with Matt Hawker and he'sgot the coolest last name in the
world.
And he does, he does SEO here.
He's also someone that helps usleadership because his name is
actually spelled hacker.
And like, if you want SEO.
(00:23):
Well, if you need a hacker onyour team.
So, but this is Matt, MattHawker.
Um, so thank you for being herewith us today.
Um, all right.
So today we are going to betalking about something we do
here at RocketClicks.
And it's all about leadershipculture.
How do we get the team to workbetter together?
How do we communicate better?
(00:44):
So it's a program that, uh, theprogram where we talk about is
called Giant.
Um, so Matt's gonna be talkingto us a little bit about that.
Um, we're gonna talk about whyit's important to drive revenue,
just like we do in everyepisode.
Um, and we're going to.
help identify whether or notthis is being done in your
organization.
So, or if it's not, what issuesyou can look for.
So before we do that, Matt, sotell us a little bit of your
(01:06):
history as it pertains to yougot in getting into marketing
and kind of your, your journeyas a leadership coach.
Matt Hacker (01:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
Um, into marketing.
Okay.
So first to go back to my lastname, it is Hawker.
I know there's a lot of peoplethat were super, super
disappointed when I got hired,when they found out that my last
name, in fact, was not hacker.
Uh, I believe one of them evensaid that I should resign just
immediately because it, I, itsaid, I lied and I didn't, it,
(01:38):
it, it is a crazy weird lastname, but It's a good
conversation starter.
Uh, from a marketing standpoint,um, I've been, I've been in
various forms of marketing for alot of years.
Um, I started off kind of likeon the data and analytics side,
and then I got into, um, some,some account management and then
I got into SEO and I kind ofrealized like there was, it all
(02:02):
kind of blends together and itall blends together within
marketing and I realized I'm atalker as you can probably tell.
I love talking to people.
Um, and I, I love helpingbusinesses and companies reach
their goals, which kind of dabsinto marketing and dabs into
leadership a little bit.
Um, I'm very good about taking,taking a goal, working through
(02:25):
that goal.
This is what you need to do froma marketing standpoint to get
that done.
So I love doing that.
So I got into marketing a littlebit more, um, which then kind of
led into leadership.
So, uh, on the leadership sideof things.
Not only have I a leader here atRocket Clicks since I, since
I've been here, I also, um, havemy, my wife and I are also
(02:45):
health coaches and we havehelped and managed over 650
people, um, uh, changed theirlife, changed their health, and
we've led them, led them throughthat.
So I've done a lot of trainingor centered around that.
Um, a lot of, a lot ofleadership is helping people
understand what's withinthemselves when they don't even
know what's within themselves.
Um, sometimes helping them to,to get confidence, gain the
(03:07):
confidence that they can do thething that they don't think they
can do.
Uh, so that's kind of where thatcame from on the health side.
Transition that same thing kindof goes into business.
A lot of people don't know whatthey can do until they try it.
Sometimes they need a littleboost and, uh, that's what I
love to do, help people out,
Anthony Karls (03:22):
It's awesome.
That, uh, that speaks reallywell to, uh, something Joe Rogan
always says, the hardest thingyou do is the hardest thing you
do.
So that's.
Matt Hacker (03:31):
right?
Anthony Karls (03:31):
Same thing to think about.
Um, all right.
So let's dig in a little bithere on our topic.
So what super high level, likewhat is giant?
What do we do here atRocketFlix?
What's giant?
Why does it, why does it, whydoes it work for us?
What's been your, what's beenyour experience?
Matt Hacker (03:48):
Yeah,
Anthony Karls (03:49):
Yeah.
Matt Hacker (03:50):
of giant is like a, a, leadership training program
and basically what it is, whichsounds very official, but it's,
it's actually pretty, it's supersimple.
Um, giant really helps, helpsbusinesses and individuals
within that business.
Come to a common, uh, create acommon language within the
(04:11):
organization itself when itcomes to things like
communications, when it comes tothings like team relationships,
when it comes to things liketeam alignment, the best thing
that you can have within yourorganization is everybody
speaking the same language,right?
If, if Billy over in marketingspeaks one way, And Tommy over
in IT speaks another way, andSusie Q over in sales speaks
(04:33):
another way, and they all speakdifferent, different lingo,
different language on, on, theyhave different, uh, expectations
on the way that, uh, they canand they can't talk to people.
They have, they have different,uh, expectations on, um, what
everybody should and shouldn'tdo as part of, as part of a
team.
You're not going to have a verystrong team.
So what Giant does is it takesall of those things kind of
(04:54):
focused on relationships,communication, team alignment,
creating a common knowledge, andit is applied throughout the
entire organization.
So everybody's on the same pageand that's exactly what we have,
what we have done and what we'restill doing here at RocketFlix.
Anthony Karls (05:10):
So you, you talked a little bit about the
common language.
So like, let's talk about how,how that manifests.
So, um, talk a little bit abouthow that manifests in giant
voices.
Like, what does that, what doesit look like?
Cause that's a core component.
Matt Hacker (05:24):
Yeah, so within giant, there's one of the, one
of the first things that you dois you kind of, you take an
assessment and it's called thefive voices assessment.
And basically, um, it, there'sother, there's other types of
trainings out there too, wherecolors and all of these
different things.
And at the end of the day,Everybody is, everybody is made
up of all five giant voices.
(05:45):
We are, uh, we just have naturaltendencies that lean towards one
or two or three, more of morespecific, uh, voices of the five
in total.
And what giant does is, isthrough that voice assessment,
it says, okay, people who are,Typically this voice, um, this
is what their natural tendenciesare.
(06:06):
This is where their naturalstrengths are when it comes to
communication and inrelationships and team
alignment.
This is what their, theirweaknesses are generally.
And these are some things that,that typically people who have
this type of voice can improveon when it comes to creating a
more, uh, cohesive team, workingon a more cohesive team.
So it's really, it's really goodabout helping people understand
(06:30):
why they are the way they are.
And how they can help, how theycan help themselves and help
their team communicate withother people who might not be
the same.
And that's okay.
Anthony Karls (06:39):
Nice.
So, so basically it creates a.
It gives everybody anunderstanding of like how people
may or may not come to aconversation.
So basically you take the voiceassessment, you learn about your
voice.
You also learn about otherpeople's voices, what their
natural tendencies are, whattheir likes, what their dislikes
are.
Like for me, it's speaking fromlike a creative pioneer
(07:00):
perspective.
When I'm speaking with anurturer, typically that's my,
that, that would be my, myfrenemy or my My enemy voice,
um,
Matt Hacker (07:08):
Mm
Anthony Karls (07:09):
where we both see the world very differently
because they want, they wantrelational harmony.
I'm looking for progress andmoving forward.
I'm not thinking a lot aboutrelational harmony.
So often there's friction there.
So knowing that it's reallypowerful.
So then when I enter aconversation with someone who's
first voice nurture, I know.
Okay, if, if I'm notcommunicating about how this
(07:30):
impacts the people, I'm probablynot going to be heard.
And they're going to think thatI'm a jerk.
Matt Hacker (07:35):
hmm.
Absolutely.
And one of the big things too, Imean, there's, uh, there's a
mindset element to giant that Iabsolutely love too, and, you
know, There are some people andthis is kind of where some of
my, my previous coaching comesinto play too.
There are some people where it'ssuper easy for them to, to
dream.
And in order to, in order forpeople to dream, they have to be
(07:57):
like future thinking.
That's, that's easier for somepeople than what it is for other
people.
So we have, you have futurethinking individuals and you
have present thinkingindividuals.
So, you know, each, each, eachvoice type.
Is tied to in, in through giant,you will learn that each voice
type is either a presentthinking voice or a future
(08:17):
thinking voice.
And how powerful is it to gointo a conversation knowing
that, that, that Joe is a futurethinking voice and maybe you're
a present thinking voice, right?
So you have to help Joeunderstand the things that he
needs to know to like.
Okay, joe, this is present,right?
Um, or, or vice versa.
So that's, that's one of thethings that I love about it too.
It's that it helps you, it helpsyou be able to communicate with
(08:39):
other people who are similar toyou, but it also helps you
communicate with other peoplewho might be completely opposite
of you.
But in order to have a cohesiveteam at an organization, you
need to be able to communicatewith each other.
Anthony Karls (08:52):
Nice.
So how does this manifest?
So we take the assessment, thenwhat do we, what else, what else
comes with a giant platform?
Like, how do we roll throughthis?
Cause this is a.
Matt Hacker (09:01):
Yeah.
Anthony Karls (09:01):
Pretty intensive, long process.
It doesn't like can't turn it onand just have fixed.
There is no easy button.
We'll talk a little bit aboutlike what the, what the looks,
what it looks like after theassessment.
Matt Hacker (09:13):
Yeah.
So, uh, we have, we have weeklymeetings that we go through, uh,
here at rocket clicks where theyare, they're video led meetings,
but they're also very, very, um,uh, uh, in person, I should say,
um, meaning that it, it takespeople to communicate within the
meetings.
You're not just sitting thereand watching a video.
Um, there's, there's, you'regoing to have people, you're
going to have input from people,your expectations that people
(09:36):
are going to speak up.
So for some people, that's goingto be difficult because they
don't like to speak andcommunicate within meetings.
Um, But it's, there's, I wouldsay that our trainings go about
four to five months per session.
And then after that time,there's a whole slew of
different resources that gianthas available to you to
continue.
If there's something specificthat you want to get better at
(09:58):
for yourself, uh, there's awhole bunch of different videos,
uh, that you have access towithin the giant platform, which
is super nice.
So our employees can go through,through our session that, that
we lead.
then if there's, if there'smore, um, that they want to, uh,
kind of wrote, if there's a moregiant road, they want to go
down, there's, there's morevideos for them to watch.
(10:19):
Um, so it takes it at the corefundamental and then, you know,
there's an advanced section of,of giant too.
That's a little bit moreadvanced for maybe your
leadership team and otherleaders within your
organization, um, that, thatthey can continue to take.
But everybody.
should start at the five voicesassessment, um, which is kind of
the baseline for what, whatgiant's all about.
Anthony Karls (10:40):
Yeah.
So I know here at Rocket Clicks,we, all our team members go
through the five voicesassessment, then they all go
through a workshop, which takes,I think most of them take about
four to five months, alltransforming team communication,
it's weekly meeting.
And so can you talk a little bitabout how the teams change over
(11:00):
the course of that four to fivemonths?
Matt Hacker (11:02):
Oh, absolutely.
That's the coolest part, man.
Like when I, when, when, when wefirst start a session,
everybody's typically a little.
hesitant, I would say, becausethis new thing like learning how
to communicate, learning how towork better as a team, they
don't really know theexpectations.
And it sometimes it's just hardfor people just to like go with
(11:23):
the flow.
But as, as, as, as we meet everyweek, the growth that you see
within people is just It'samazing.
Um, before you know it, likepeople will start to speak up
more in our, in our giantmeetings.
Well, then that translates intopeople speaking up more in other
business meetings that you have.
Um, you know, you, you mightstart to hear a little bit less,
(11:45):
less gossip.
Around the workplace, becauseinstead of people, you know,
Hey, did you hear, did you hearabout what, what bill said to me
the other day, like they'lljust, if they have a problem
with bill, like through giant,they'll just, they'll just go
talk to bill and say, Hey, youknow what, I didn't.
I just wanted to talk to youabout this.
This is something that Irecognize.
And what that translates into meis that it gives your team an
(12:10):
abundance of confidence to leadthemselves in conversations that
to giant.
They would have just kind ofpushed to the side or ask
somebody else to help them with,or, or worse, just like
forgotten about it.
Right.
And just that, that's when likeproblems begin to fester.
Um, so really I've seen a lotof, a lot of confidence come out
(12:31):
in our team, uh, with theirability to, to communicate with,
within meetings, communicatewith themselves, to work through
problems and issues, um, and toreally just kind of raise their
hand for themselves when, whenthey need to and otherwise they,
they probably wouldn't have.
Anthony Karls (12:46):
Yeah.
Um, so after that, you mentionedthere's another program, so
that's called 100X Leader, uh,that we also take our team
through, uh, our leadershipteam, and then our NextUp team,
um, we've been taking themthrough that, uh, which has also
been super beneficial.
So,
Matt Hacker (13:02):
Absolutely.
Anthony Karls (13:03):
talk a little bit about, so why is this, because
on this podcast, we talk aboutwhy this, why there are topics
are important to drivingrevenue.
So like the small businessowner, maybe a finite amount of
time, how adding one more thingto my plate and my team's plate
overall, why should I considerdoing this?
(13:25):
Cause this seems like I mightjust be wasting time.
So talk to me about that.
Matt Hacker (13:29):
that's a great question.
Um, why shouldn't you care aboutyour people?
Right?
That, that's the question that Iask.
So, um, when you're a smallbusiness, One of the most
important things to yourbusiness is your team because
it's a small team, right?
Your small business probablyhave a smaller team You need
that team to be as cohesive aspossible You need that team to
(13:51):
operate as one unit to the bestof their ability, right?
When you have 500 people andsomebody isn't pulling their
weight or there or somebody isis detracting from the team It's
probably a little lessnoticeable, right?
But if you have 20 people, 50people.
Like if one person detracts fromthe overall team.
(14:13):
You're going to notice it.
And so leading your team throughthis to help them understand and
to get on the same page from acommunication standpoint is, is
vital, right?
Think about if, if somebody insales had their own way to solve
problems and marketing had theirown way and I.
T.
(14:33):
Had their own way.
Um, and you know, let's say youhave 10 people, right?
So 30 percent of your company isoperating a different way from,
from everybody else.
That's, that's an issue, right?
Like that's going to, you're notgoing to operate as a business
as efficiently and effectivelyas you could.
If everybody was on the samepage.
So getting people even,especially in a small team, it's
(14:56):
vitally important that everybodyis on the same page when it
comes to communication and, andoperating as a unit with, with
shared, with, with a sharedlanguage.
Anthony Karls (15:06):
Yeah.
So like, I know what we've seenspecifically is the, um, The
amount of like negative orwasted.
Energy in communication has gonedown, which in turn turns into
productive, productive timeenergy as output.
So that one 45 minute meeting aweek has really changed our
(15:30):
overall dynamics in the culture.
Cause we're starting from aplace of relationship, trust,
then we get to alignment.
We can actually see realcapacity.
We can actually execute and thatthat's that flywheel.
And that's one of the thingswe'll talk about in future
session.
Um, the communication code ismoving.
In a way healthier way.
Cause you're starting at theright point.
(15:50):
Cause you're, you're actuallyinviting conversation and
communication and you're solvingthe right issues, not the,
Matt Hacker (15:56):
Yeah.
Anthony Karls (15:57):
the ones that, well, well, you, you're a jerk
and you just want me to do X, Y,and Z because that's just how
you are.
Well, you don't really careabout how this makes me feel and
all this other stuff.
We just get into these circularconversations that are not super
productive.
Matt Hacker (16:14):
Yeah.
And it has a huge impact onculture, right?
Like it's.
Especially if you're a smallbusiness.
If you have one person that's,that's what I would call like
toxic or maybe isn't toxic mightbe a strong word, but who isn't
on the same page as everybodyelse, it's going to have a
detrimental effect on your, yourculture overall.
Right?
So making sure that everybodyoperates, uh, from a
(16:36):
communication standpoint with,with a shared, with a shared
knowledge and, and, you know,Shared vision, especially if
you're a small team, that's onlygoing to bolster your culture.
Um, and the stronger culturethat you have when you're a
small business, the more moneyyou're going to make, because
people are going to enjoy comingto work.
People, people are going toenjoy the people that they work
(16:57):
with, right?
They're going to, they're goingto then reflect on the people
that the clientele that you haveas a business, right?
You're not only helping yourteam communicate better with
themselves.
going through giant, you're alsohelping your team communicate
better with your clients, right?
And you know, the stronger yourrelationships are with your
clients, the more referralsyou're going to get, which is
going to have a direct influenceon your revenue.
(17:19):
So it's a, it's a huge thing,especially if you're a small
business to make sure thateverybody's on the same page.
It's
Anthony Karls (17:26):
So how do I know?
So I'm a local entrepreneur.
How do I know if like this is anissue for me?
Like, what does this look likein practice?
I don't know.
I have an issue.
I don't know if it's going well.
What's that look like?
Matt Hacker (17:38):
kind of, I'm going to kind of give the same answers
for both of those in terms ofhow do you know it's going well
and how do you know it's notgoing well.
So if you see that you're.
It's pretty easy sometimes tosee if your, if your team's
communication is improving ornot, right?
Like, how are people showing upin meetings?
If people are being more vocalin meetings, if people are being
more open and honest with eachother, Then you know that
(18:01):
giant's probably doing itsthing.
It's probably working, but ifyou don't see those things
happening, you know that youhave a problem.
Right?
Same thing goes for culture.
If you have, if you can see,like, if you can see that when,
when people have problems orissues that they need to work
through and talk through withother, with other individuals at
your organization.
If those conversations areactually happening and you're
(18:21):
getting the output from thoseand you're, you're, you can see
that, um, if, if, if your teamis leading themselves through
those conversations, instead ofyou having to lead them through
those conversations, then, youknow, the giant is working.
If that's not happening, then,you know, you, you, you still
have a problem.
So, um.
Those are two of the biggestthings for me.
(18:43):
Um, also just listening, right?
Like you can learn a lot just bylistening to what people are
saying.
And if people, if, if, ifeverybody's starting to use the
same, the same language, whenit's, when they're referring to
different elements or differentparts of your business, as it
pertains to, to meetings andcommunication, and you start to
hear different, differentverbiage from giant being
(19:04):
dropped in meetings, then youknow that it's having an impact
and that, you know, that thenyou know that, you know, it's
doing what it's supposed to do.
If you don't, if you don't hearthose things, um, you probably
still have an issue, right?
One of the parts, one of thethings of giant there's a lot of
like self reflection, uh, that,that I've gathered from giant.
And if, you know, if you'rehaving a one on ones with, with
(19:26):
individuals and you ask themabout those, those reflection
moments, and they don't reallyhave like much of an answer for
you, then I would question how,how.
Attentive.
They really are during giant andlike, you know, with any
leadership things, sometimes it,not everybody takes it
seriously.
Right.
Um, that's when I think there'skind of a, a moment where it's
(19:47):
like, okay.
Um, they either need to, youknow, Get on the boat or get off
the boat.
And, um, this, this is importantenough that you need everybody
to be on the boat for it to workeffectively.
Anthony Karls (19:59):
Just on the, on the one, one more point on that.
Cause um, when we were firsttrained on it, one of the
biggest things that we weretrained on is if the highest
level leader isn't willing todrink the Kool Aid, it's
probably going to waste, be awaste of your time.
This isn't something to, tobring in the organization,
(20:24):
delegate down.
And just forget about, uh,leaders need to be very
involved.
They need to drink the Kool Aid.
They need to function from thisperspective.
If they're not having the sameopportunities to
Matt Hacker (20:40):
Yeah,
Anthony Karls (20:40):
and grow and see themselves, like see the, see
the mirror, like where's thebroccoli teeth.
It won't work.
Cause well,
Matt Hacker (20:50):
a really good saying that I have, um, that I
use quite a bit and it's inspectwhat you expect, right?
So what you expect for yourteam, I expect you to do this
giant leadership training.
I mean, so looking in a mirror,right?
Like inspect within yourself.
Am I, am I doing what I'mexpecting my team to do?
(21:10):
And if I'm not, why?
So if you're having problemswithin your team, maybe the
first place to start is withyourself and especially, you
know, if you're a leader withinan organization, um, you're 100,
you 100 percent need to be you.
Need to be doing this with yourteam, um, for, for you to, to
lead them through this, becausea lot of giant is not something
(21:31):
that comes naturally for people,right?
I'm, I'm a, I'm a, my, my, my,my number one voice in giant is
connector, right?
Connecting with people,speaking, talking.
I can, I can do this all daylong, right?
But not a lot of people can, sothey're going to need help
through that.
Going back to what I saidearlier, like they're going to
have to borrow your confidencein them to get through this, uh,
(21:52):
for them to, until they can getit within themselves and they
will.
Throughout the process of giant,like they will get this
confidence within themselves,but it starts, it has to start
with you as their leader.
Anthony Karls (22:03):
thanks Matt.
Appreciate you being willing tohang out with us for a little
bit.
Matt Hacker (22:07):
you.
Anthony Karls (22:08):
Thank you.
Matt Hacker (22:09):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
All right, here we go.
Welcome.
Welcome.
So this is revenue roadmap wherewe talk about sales and
marketing for localentrepreneurs.
I'm Anthony Carl's president ofrocket clicks today.
I am with Matt Hawker and he'sgot the coolest last name in the
world.
And he does, he does SEO here.
He's also someone that helps usleadership because his name is
actually spelled hacker.
And like, if you want SEO.
(00:23):
Well, if you need a hacker onyour team.
So, but this is Matt, MattHawker.
Um, so thank you for being herewith us today.
Um, all right.
So today we are going to betalking about something we do
here at RocketClicks.
And it's all about leadershipculture.
How do we get the team to workbetter together?
How do we communicate better?
(00:44):
So it's a program that, uh, theprogram where we talk about is
called Giant.
Um, so Matt's gonna be talkingto us a little bit about that.
Um, we're gonna talk about whyit's important to drive revenue,
just like we do in everyepisode.
Um, and we're going to.
help identify whether or notthis is being done in your
organization.
So, or if it's not, what issuesyou can look for.
So before we do that, Matt, sotell us a little bit of your
(01:06):
history as it pertains to yougot in getting into marketing
and kind of your, your journeyas a leadership coach.
Matt Hacker (01:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
Um, into marketing.
Okay.
So first to go back to my lastname, it is Hawker.
I know there's a lot of peoplethat were super, super
disappointed when I got hired,when they found out that my last
name, in fact, was not hacker.
Uh, I believe one of them evensaid that I should resign just
immediately because it, I, itsaid, I lied and I didn't, it,
(01:38):
it, it is a crazy weird lastname, but It's a good
conversation starter.
Uh, from a marketing standpoint,um, I've been, I've been in
various forms of marketing for alot of years.
Um, I started off kind of likeon the data and analytics side,
and then I got into, um, some,some account management and then
I got into SEO and I kind ofrealized like there was, it all
(02:02):
kind of blends together and itall blends together within
marketing and I realized I'm atalker as you can probably tell.
I love talking to people.
Um, and I, I love helpingbusinesses and companies reach
their goals, which kind of dabsinto marketing and dabs into
leadership a little bit.
Um, I'm very good about taking,taking a goal, working through
(02:25):
that goal.
This is what you need to do froma marketing standpoint to get
that done.
So I love doing that.
So I got into marketing a littlebit more, um, which then kind of
led into leadership.
So, uh, on the leadership sideof things.
Not only have I a leader here atRocket Clicks since I, since
I've been here, I also, um, havemy, my wife and I are also
(02:45):
health coaches and we havehelped and managed over 650
people, um, uh, changed theirlife, changed their health, and
we've led them, led them throughthat.
So I've done a lot of trainingor centered around that.
Um, a lot of, a lot ofleadership is helping people
understand what's withinthemselves when they don't even
know what's within themselves.
Um, sometimes helping them to,to get confidence, gain the
(03:07):
confidence that they can do thething that they don't think they
can do.
Uh, so that's kind of where thatcame from on the health side.
Transition that same thing kindof goes into business.
A lot of people don't know whatthey can do until they try it.
Sometimes they need a littleboost and, uh, that's what I
love to do, help people out,
Anthony Karls (03:22):
It's awesome.
That, uh, that speaks reallywell to, uh, something Joe Rogan
always says, the hardest thingyou do is the hardest thing you
do.
So that's.
Matt Hacker (03:31):
right?
Anthony Karls (03:31):
Same thing to think about.
Um, all right.
So let's dig in a little bithere on our topic.
So what super high level, likewhat is giant?
What do we do here atRocketFlix?
What's giant?
Why does it, why does it, whydoes it work for us?
What's been your, what's beenyour experience?
Matt Hacker (03:48):
Yeah,
Anthony Karls (03:49):
Yeah.
Matt Hacker (03:50):
of giant is like a, a, leadership training program
and basically what it is, whichsounds very official, but it's,
it's actually pretty, it's supersimple.
Um, giant really helps, helpsbusinesses and individuals
within that business.
Come to a common, uh, create acommon language within the
(04:11):
organization itself when itcomes to things like
communications, when it comes tothings like team relationships,
when it comes to things liketeam alignment, the best thing
that you can have within yourorganization is everybody
speaking the same language,right?
If, if Billy over in marketingspeaks one way, And Tommy over
in IT speaks another way, andSusie Q over in sales speaks
(04:33):
another way, and they all speakdifferent, different lingo,
different language on, on, theyhave different, uh, expectations
on the way that, uh, they canand they can't talk to people.
They have, they have different,uh, expectations on, um, what
everybody should and shouldn'tdo as part of, as part of a
team.
You're not going to have a verystrong team.
So what Giant does is it takesall of those things kind of
(04:54):
focused on relationships,communication, team alignment,
creating a common knowledge, andit is applied throughout the
entire organization.
So everybody's on the same pageand that's exactly what we have,
what we have done and what we'restill doing here at RocketFlix.
Anthony Karls (05:10):
So you, you talked a little bit about the
common language.
So like, let's talk about how,how that manifests.
So, um, talk a little bit abouthow that manifests in giant
voices.
Like, what does that, what doesit look like?
Cause that's a core component.
Matt Hacker (05:24):
Yeah, so within giant, there's one of the, one
of the first things that you dois you kind of, you take an
assessment and it's called thefive voices assessment.
And basically, um, it, there'sother, there's other types of
trainings out there too, wherecolors and all of these
different things.
And at the end of the day,Everybody is, everybody is made
up of all five giant voices.
(05:45):
We are, uh, we just have naturaltendencies that lean towards one
or two or three, more of morespecific, uh, voices of the five
in total.
And what giant does is, isthrough that voice assessment,
it says, okay, people who are,Typically this voice, um, this
is what their natural tendenciesare.
(06:06):
This is where their naturalstrengths are when it comes to
communication and inrelationships and team
alignment.
This is what their, theirweaknesses are generally.
And these are some things that,that typically people who have
this type of voice can improveon when it comes to creating a
more, uh, cohesive team, workingon a more cohesive team.
So it's really, it's really goodabout helping people understand
(06:30):
why they are the way they are.
And how they can help, how theycan help themselves and help
their team communicate withother people who might not be
the same.
And that's okay.
Anthony Karls (06:39):
Nice.
So, so basically it creates a.
It gives everybody anunderstanding of like how people
may or may not come to aconversation.
So basically you take the voiceassessment, you learn about your
voice.
You also learn about otherpeople's voices, what their
natural tendencies are, whattheir likes, what their dislikes
are.
Like for me, it's speaking fromlike a creative pioneer
(07:00):
perspective.
When I'm speaking with anurturer, typically that's my,
that, that would be my, myfrenemy or my My enemy voice,
um,
Matt Hacker (07:08):
Mm
Anthony Karls (07:09):
where we both see the world very differently
because they want, they wantrelational harmony.
I'm looking for progress andmoving forward.
I'm not thinking a lot aboutrelational harmony.
So often there's friction there.
So knowing that it's reallypowerful.
So then when I enter aconversation with someone who's
first voice nurture, I know.
Okay, if, if I'm notcommunicating about how this
(07:30):
impacts the people, I'm probablynot going to be heard.
And they're going to think thatI'm a jerk.
Matt Hacker (07:35):
hmm.
Absolutely.
And one of the big things too, Imean, there's, uh, there's a
mindset element to giant that Iabsolutely love too, and, you
know, There are some people andthis is kind of where some of
my, my previous coaching comesinto play too.
There are some people where it'ssuper easy for them to, to
dream.
And in order to, in order forpeople to dream, they have to be
(07:57):
like future thinking.
That's, that's easier for somepeople than what it is for other
people.
So we have, you have futurethinking individuals and you
have present thinkingindividuals.
So, you know, each, each, eachvoice type.
Is tied to in, in through giant,you will learn that each voice
type is either a presentthinking voice or a future
(08:17):
thinking voice.
And how powerful is it to gointo a conversation knowing
that, that, that Joe is a futurethinking voice and maybe you're
a present thinking voice, right?
So you have to help Joeunderstand the things that he
needs to know to like.
Okay, joe, this is present,right?
Um, or, or vice versa.
So that's, that's one of thethings that I love about it too.
It's that it helps you, it helpsyou be able to communicate with
(08:39):
other people who are similar toyou, but it also helps you
communicate with other peoplewho might be completely opposite
of you.
But in order to have a cohesiveteam at an organization, you
need to be able to communicatewith each other.
Anthony Karls (08:52):
Nice.
So how does this manifest?
So we take the assessment, thenwhat do we, what else, what else
comes with a giant platform?
Like, how do we roll throughthis?
Cause this is a.
Matt Hacker (09:01):
Yeah.
Anthony Karls (09:01):
Pretty intensive, long process.
It doesn't like can't turn it onand just have fixed.
There is no easy button.
We'll talk a little bit aboutlike what the, what the looks,
what it looks like after theassessment.
Matt Hacker (09:13):
Yeah.
So, uh, we have, we have weeklymeetings that we go through, uh,
here at rocket clicks where theyare, they're video led meetings,
but they're also very, very, um,uh, uh, in person, I should say,
um, meaning that it, it takespeople to communicate within the
meetings.
You're not just sitting thereand watching a video.
Um, there's, there's, you'regoing to have people, you're
going to have input from people,your expectations that people
(09:36):
are going to speak up.
So for some people, that's goingto be difficult because they
don't like to speak andcommunicate within meetings.
Um, But it's, there's, I wouldsay that our trainings go about
four to five months per session.
And then after that time,there's a whole slew of
different resources that gianthas available to you to
continue.
If there's something specificthat you want to get better at
(09:58):
for yourself, uh, there's awhole bunch of different videos,
uh, that you have access towithin the giant platform, which
is super nice.
So our employees can go through,through our session that, that
we lead.
then if there's, if there'smore, um, that they want to, uh,
kind of wrote, if there's a moregiant road, they want to go
down, there's, there's morevideos for them to watch.
(10:19):
Um, so it takes it at the corefundamental and then, you know,
there's an advanced section of,of giant too.
That's a little bit moreadvanced for maybe your
leadership team and otherleaders within your
organization, um, that, thatthey can continue to take.
But everybody.
should start at the five voicesassessment, um, which is kind of
the baseline for what, whatgiant's all about.
Anthony Karls (10:40):
Yeah.
So I know here at Rocket Clicks,we, all our team members go
through the five voicesassessment, then they all go
through a workshop, which takes,I think most of them take about
four to five months, alltransforming team communication,
it's weekly meeting.
And so can you talk a little bitabout how the teams change over
(11:00):
the course of that four to fivemonths?
Matt Hacker (11:02):
Oh, absolutely.
That's the coolest part, man.
Like when I, when, when, when wefirst start a session,
everybody's typically a little.
hesitant, I would say, becausethis new thing like learning how
to communicate, learning how towork better as a team, they
don't really know theexpectations.
And it sometimes it's just hardfor people just to like go with
(11:23):
the flow.
But as, as, as, as we meet everyweek, the growth that you see
within people is just It'samazing.
Um, before you know it, likepeople will start to speak up
more in our, in our giantmeetings.
Well, then that translates intopeople speaking up more in other
business meetings that you have.
Um, you know, you, you mightstart to hear a little bit less,
(11:45):
less gossip.
Around the workplace, becauseinstead of people, you know,
Hey, did you hear, did you hearabout what, what bill said to me
the other day, like they'lljust, if they have a problem
with bill, like through giant,they'll just, they'll just go
talk to bill and say, Hey, youknow what, I didn't.
I just wanted to talk to youabout this.
This is something that Irecognize.
And what that translates into meis that it gives your team an
(12:10):
abundance of confidence to leadthemselves in conversations that
to giant.
They would have just kind ofpushed to the side or ask
somebody else to help them with,or, or worse, just like
forgotten about it.
Right.
And just that, that's when likeproblems begin to fester.
Um, so really I've seen a lotof, a lot of confidence come out
(12:31):
in our team, uh, with theirability to, to communicate with,
within meetings, communicatewith themselves, to work through
problems and issues, um, and toreally just kind of raise their
hand for themselves when, whenthey need to and otherwise they,
they probably wouldn't have.
Anthony Karls (12:46):
Yeah.
Um, so after that, you mentionedthere's another program, so
that's called 100X Leader, uh,that we also take our team
through, uh, our leadershipteam, and then our NextUp team,
um, we've been taking themthrough that, uh, which has also
been super beneficial.
So,
Matt Hacker (13:02):
Absolutely.
Anthony Karls (13:03):
talk a little bit about, so why is this, because
on this podcast, we talk aboutwhy this, why there are topics
are important to drivingrevenue.
So like the small businessowner, maybe a finite amount of
time, how adding one more thingto my plate and my team's plate
overall, why should I considerdoing this?
(13:25):
Cause this seems like I mightjust be wasting time.
So talk to me about that.
Matt Hacker (13:29):
that's a great question.
Um, why shouldn't you care aboutyour people?
Right?
That, that's the question that Iask.
So, um, when you're a smallbusiness, One of the most
important things to yourbusiness is your team because
it's a small team, right?
Your small business probablyhave a smaller team You need
that team to be as cohesive aspossible You need that team to
(13:51):
operate as one unit to the bestof their ability, right?
When you have 500 people andsomebody isn't pulling their
weight or there or somebody isis detracting from the team It's
probably a little lessnoticeable, right?
But if you have 20 people, 50people.
Like if one person detracts fromthe overall team.
(14:13):
You're going to notice it.
And so leading your team throughthis to help them understand and
to get on the same page from acommunication standpoint is, is
vital, right?
Think about if, if somebody insales had their own way to solve
problems and marketing had theirown way and I.
T.
(14:33):
Had their own way.
Um, and you know, let's say youhave 10 people, right?
So 30 percent of your company isoperating a different way from,
from everybody else.
That's, that's an issue, right?
Like that's going to, you're notgoing to operate as a business
as efficiently and effectivelyas you could.
If everybody was on the samepage.
So getting people even,especially in a small team, it's
(14:56):
vitally important that everybodyis on the same page when it
comes to communication and, andoperating as a unit with, with
shared, with, with a sharedlanguage.
Anthony Karls (15:06):
Yeah.
So like, I know what we've seenspecifically is the, um, The
amount of like negative orwasted.
Energy in communication has gonedown, which in turn turns into
productive, productive timeenergy as output.
So that one 45 minute meeting aweek has really changed our
(15:30):
overall dynamics in the culture.
Cause we're starting from aplace of relationship, trust,
then we get to alignment.
We can actually see realcapacity.
We can actually execute and thatthat's that flywheel.
And that's one of the thingswe'll talk about in future
session.
Um, the communication code ismoving.
In a way healthier way.
Cause you're starting at theright point.
(15:50):
Cause you're, you're actuallyinviting conversation and
communication and you're solvingthe right issues, not the,
Matt Hacker (15:56):
Yeah.
Anthony Karls (15:57):
the ones that, well, well, you, you're a jerk
and you just want me to do X, Y,and Z because that's just how
you are.
Well, you don't really careabout how this makes me feel and
all this other stuff.
We just get into these circularconversations that are not super
productive.
Matt Hacker (16:14):
Yeah.
And it has a huge impact onculture, right?
Like it's.
Especially if you're a smallbusiness.
If you have one person that's,that's what I would call like
toxic or maybe isn't toxic mightbe a strong word, but who isn't
on the same page as everybodyelse, it's going to have a
detrimental effect on your, yourculture overall.
Right?
So making sure that everybodyoperates, uh, from a
(16:36):
communication standpoint with,with a shared, with a shared
knowledge and, and, you know,Shared vision, especially if
you're a small team, that's onlygoing to bolster your culture.
Um, and the stronger culturethat you have when you're a
small business, the more moneyyou're going to make, because
people are going to enjoy comingto work.
People, people are going toenjoy the people that they work
(16:57):
with, right?
They're going to, they're goingto then reflect on the people
that the clientele that you haveas a business, right?
You're not only helping yourteam communicate better with
themselves.
going through giant, you're alsohelping your team communicate
better with your clients, right?
And you know, the stronger yourrelationships are with your
clients, the more referralsyou're going to get, which is
going to have a direct influenceon your revenue.
(17:19):
So it's a, it's a huge thing,especially if you're a small
business to make sure thateverybody's on the same page.
It's
Anthony Karls (17:26):
So how do I know?
So I'm a local entrepreneur.
How do I know if like this is anissue for me?
Like, what does this look likein practice?
I don't know.
I have an issue.
I don't know if it's going well.
What's that look like?
Matt Hacker (17:38):
kind of, I'm going to kind of give the same answers
for both of those in terms ofhow do you know it's going well
and how do you know it's notgoing well.
So if you see that you're.
It's pretty easy sometimes tosee if your, if your team's
communication is improving ornot, right?
Like, how are people showing upin meetings?
If people are being more vocalin meetings, if people are being
more open and honest with eachother, Then you know that
(18:01):
giant's probably doing itsthing.
It's probably working, but ifyou don't see those things
happening, you know that youhave a problem.
Right?
Same thing goes for culture.
If you have, if you can see,like, if you can see that when,
when people have problems orissues that they need to work
through and talk through withother, with other individuals at
your organization.
If those conversations areactually happening and you're
(18:21):
getting the output from thoseand you're, you're, you can see
that, um, if, if, if your teamis leading themselves through
those conversations, instead ofyou having to lead them through
those conversations, then, youknow, the giant is working.
If that's not happening, then,you know, you, you, you still
have a problem.
So, um.
Those are two of the biggestthings for me.
(18:43):
Um, also just listening, right?
Like you can learn a lot just bylistening to what people are
saying.
And if people, if, if, ifeverybody's starting to use the
same, the same language, whenit's, when they're referring to
different elements or differentparts of your business, as it
pertains to, to meetings andcommunication, and you start to
hear different, differentverbiage from giant being
(19:04):
dropped in meetings, then youknow that it's having an impact
and that, you know, that thenyou know that, you know, it's
doing what it's supposed to do.
If you don't, if you don't hearthose things, um, you probably
still have an issue, right?
One of the parts, one of thethings of giant there's a lot of
like self reflection, uh, that,that I've gathered from giant.
And if, you know, if you'rehaving a one on ones with, with
(19:26):
individuals and you ask themabout those, those reflection
moments, and they don't reallyhave like much of an answer for
you, then I would question how,how.
Attentive.
They really are during giant andlike, you know, with any
leadership things, sometimes it,not everybody takes it
seriously.
Right.
Um, that's when I think there'skind of a, a moment where it's
(19:47):
like, okay.
Um, they either need to, youknow, Get on the boat or get off
the boat.
And, um, this, this is importantenough that you need everybody
to be on the boat for it to workeffectively.
Anthony Karls (19:59):
Just on the, on the one, one more point on that.
Cause um, when we were firsttrained on it, one of the
biggest things that we weretrained on is if the highest
level leader isn't willing todrink the Kool Aid, it's
probably going to waste, be awaste of your time.
This isn't something to, tobring in the organization,
(20:24):
delegate down.
And just forget about, uh,leaders need to be very
involved.
They need to drink the Kool Aid.
They need to function from thisperspective.
If they're not having the sameopportunities to
Matt Hacker (20:40):
Yeah,
Anthony Karls (20:40):
and grow and see themselves, like see the, see
the mirror, like where's thebroccoli teeth.
It won't work.
Cause well,
Matt Hacker (20:50):
a really good saying that I have, um, that I
use quite a bit and it's inspectwhat you expect, right?
So what you expect for yourteam, I expect you to do this
giant leadership training.
I mean, so looking in a mirror,right?
Like inspect within yourself.
Am I, am I doing what I'mexpecting my team to do?
(21:10):
And if I'm not, why?
So if you're having problemswithin your team, maybe the
first place to start is withyourself and especially, you
know, if you're a leader withinan organization, um, you're 100,
you 100 percent need to be you.
Need to be doing this with yourteam, um, for, for you to, to
lead them through this, becausea lot of giant is not something
(21:31):
that comes naturally for people,right?
I'm, I'm a, I'm a, my, my, my,my number one voice in giant is
connector, right?
Connecting with people,speaking, talking.
I can, I can do this all daylong, right?
But not a lot of people can, sothey're going to need help
through that.
Going back to what I saidearlier, like they're going to
have to borrow your confidencein them to get through this, uh,
(21:52):
for them to, until they can getit within themselves and they
will.
Throughout the process of giant,like they will get this
confidence within themselves,but it starts, it has to start
with you as their leader.
Anthony Karls (22:03):
thanks Matt.
Appreciate you being willing tohang out with us for a little
bit.
Matt Hacker (22:07):
you.
Anthony Karls (22:08):
Thank you.
Matt Hacker (22:09):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
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