128: Marie’s Crisis with Guest of Honor JOE KINOSIAN

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VOICEOVER (00:01):
Everybody's got an opinion, Every Californian and Virginian, It's so hard to tell who to trust and who
to Chelsey will help you choose, Whose viewswin which ones lose, Online haters are coming for you, Baby, it's time to Review That Review!

CHELSEY DONN (00:30):
Hello,

TREY GERRALD (00:31):
Oh my god, hello and welcome to Review That Review!
We are the podcast that is dedicated to reviewing.

Review,

That is Chelsey Donn.

and that is Trey Gerrald,

And when we come together, we are,

VOICEOVER (00:50):
The Review Queens,

and y'all, we are so excited and happy today because this week, we've got a very special,

VOICEOVER (01:01):
Guest of Honor,

yeah, so every so often we love to invite a special guest of honor onto the show to share some of their experiences dealing with online reviews from their unique position.

with their expertise, we have them don their Review Queen crown, and help us inspect an online review,

And today, you guys, We have Joe Kinosian, oh my god,

We did it Joe!
We did it!
Joe is the writer and composer of and frequentperformer in the musical Murder for Two, which won Chicago's Jeff Award for Best New Musical and earned Joe a Jeff Award nomination for Best Leading Actor before opening Off Broadway.
The Off Broadway productionof Murder for Two earned What?

(02:01):
A Drama Desk, Drama League, and OuterCritics Circle Award nominations, and went on to a two year national tour.
Murder for Two has since been performedall around the country, as well as internationally in Japan, Korea, England, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and Australia.

God I might, Joe also wrote and composed the musical, It Came From Outer Space, with longtime writing partner, Kellen Blair, which had its world premiere in Chicago last summer, and will hopefully be seen again soon, wink wink, Joe was also the writer composer, and performed 15 historical characters on History Comedy Podcast, Let's Start a Coup, Exclamation mark, which is an iHeartMedia original, excuse me.

(02:53):
As an actor, Joe's performed regionallyin plays like An Act of God and his dream role, the title character in The Nerd.
Joe also does the best Miss Piggyimpression this side of Frank Oz, which we're gonna have to hear a little later.
But, all of you listeners, definitely know thename Joe Kinosian for his work as the composer and lyricist of our very own theme song!

That's right!
I mean, how could we be more in your debt?
Every, every single time I listen to that song,I get excited and it's my show, which is, I don't know what that says about me, but like, I love it so much and I'm so grateful for you, like, the

I felt a little nervous because we always dance to the song, and having Joe in the room, I felt nervous.
Anyway, that was a long time forJoe to sit quietly and patiently.
So, without further ado, we've got towelcome our very special guest of honor, Mr.
Joe Kinosian!

JOE KINOSIAN (03:49):
my god, I'm so happy to be here and, um, yeah, I love that song too.
We had, we danced to it while we were inthe recording room with, uh, with Natalie.

Incredible.

wait, so let's go back to 20, um, what was that, 2021, maybe?
And, what was your thought when we reachedout to you and, and what did you think?

No, I was so excited and...
I feel like what inspired the song was the coverart because you had that first and you sent me that, you know, that beautiful, it's like black with the neon and I was like, oh, that looks like very sort of 80s, LA, like palm trees on sunsets.

(04:34):
And it was like, I thought of the band,The Cardigans, you know, of loveful fame.
So I was like that sort of like surfy 80s vibe.

It's amazing.

so good.
I just still remember listening to the firstever recording that you sang and I was obsessed Like even I mean obviously Natalie brings the like all the sparkle and the glitter and

Review!
I can't do that.

I just will never ever forget that moment of listening to that recording.
So thank you so much for this

Trey, do we?
You're so welcome, and I'm, I'mhonored to have done it and to be here.
But you know, Trey, what we shouldhave pulled up is you remember you sent me like your lyrical idea brainstorm?

Yes.
Uh huh.

And it was kind of the shape of what the song became, but it was like, just like phrases.

Much better.
Yours was much better.
Patreon members will know that we, maybesix episodes ago, reviewed for our 100th after show, one of our dress rehearsals and it was us playing that demo recording.
So if you're on Patreon, youactually get to hear Joe's demo.
But Joe, we're so glad that you're here and wewant to like get into the nitty gritty of reviews.

(05:45):
So we're curious from your pointof view as someone who has created musicals from the ground up.
And as someone who is a performer, whogets constantly critiqued and reviewed, like, how do reviews affect you as a creator, as an artist, all of that?

Well, you know, you, you don't want to give them as much credit as you sort of have to.
And I'm thinking of that, you know, there'sthe professional reviews, like the ones in the papers, and then there's the, you know, just the people who are talking online.
And I feel like I've gotten prettygood at ignoring people online.

(06:20):
I just try to stay away from the commentsor, you know, have, if friends have like read the comments, like, I can ask them, were they good or should I stay away from this one?
But yeah, but, but the critics on the papers,I think you just have to, They're serving their purpose and, So you were saying, I've got musicals from the ground up, And I have, twice, But in between those two were six that never even went anywhere, So it's like the act of getting the one all the way to the stage, And then just have some critic be like, I didn't really see what they were going for, It's just like, it can be so demoralizing, so, Generally try to stay away and then also try to tell myself they have a purpose even if that doesn't necessarily apply to the work you're doing or trying to do.

Can you feel a distinction between the madness of Voices Online versus the professional critics paid for a newspaper?

like a New York Times type article,

You know, my knee jerk is certain things I've done that have gotten like, like really positive comments from people online and sometimes the, the masses are more positive, weirdly, we wouldn't necessarily think of that where I think Professional critics have to maintain some level of, uh, dispassionate disconnect.

(07:42):
Like, they have to be a little bit toocool to, you know, just heap praise on something, because it's rare that, you know, they do that overwhelmingly.
And I think for me too, like, I write silly stuff.
I'm putting silly stuff on stage, like, hopefullywell crafted, well executed silly stuff, but like, that's not necessarily fodder for the critics to, like, You know, lose their minds, except for, uh, the New York Times did really like Murder for Two, but that's, you know, that's just a separate

Well, because I'm,

and that felt really good, which is like, I feel like I shouldn't say that, but then we heard that review, and obviously they were, you know, quoting it in the papers and every, or on the poster, rather, and that was like, uh, I'd be lying if I said that wasn't like, oh my god,

Did the Times review it when it was in Chicago?

no, um, the Times just reviewed it when it was in New York.

So what was that process from the overwhelming response in Chicago to how many years passed before it transferred, or before it went to Off Broadway?

Well, interestingly enough, this is actually very applicable to what we were saying.
The reviews when we opened inChicago were not super positive.
We were supposed to run for five weeks,and I remember after the reviews came out, particularly one famous Chicago paper that shall remain nameless, but was featured heavily in the sitcom Perfect Strangers,

mm hmm, mm hmm,

that, like, the audiences were, there were like 20 people there the night after that, and I was like, oh, so They got us, like, we're done, but people who came and saw the show liked it and started posting about it on TripAdvisor, of all things, and it started to climb the ranks of TripAdvisor, and then at one point during the summer, we were like above the aquarium, and I almost wanted to write in, like, you should go to the aquarium first, like, or do both,

do both,

in a day,

we're not competing with the Aquarium,

no,

But I think that that's an interesting point and I think it's something that came up a little while ago when the whole Martin Short article came out that was really damning and then the public and the internet and whatever you want to call it was really able to come to his defense and I do think that's sort of fascinating like so often we look at these reviews on the internet as these trolls and horrible haters as we say in our song but you The opposite also exists, right?

(10:03):
Like, like you said, you got this badreview, but the public made it so much more popular than it was able to transfer off Broadway, so screw that guy, right?
So there is somethinginteresting about that balance.

I think especially in the culture we're moving into, because now you go see a Broadway show and they literally have pull quotes that are like Twitter user handles.
Like it's not even Brantley, well it's notgoing to be Brantley, but like we are in a culture where oftentimes the, like all of these huge record breaking Broadway musicals like were almost universally reviewed very poorly.

(10:41):
It's like the crowds that love them.

Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I was thinking about, we have seeminglyall forgotten Wicked opened right when I

I was good.
Yeah.

hmm.

Wicked got really lackluster reviews, like average as best.
And that's of that amazing 2003 season,like all those iconic shows that have stayed with us and Taboo, which was a lot of fun.
Uh, like Wicked's the one still doing like, yeah,

And they recouped their money like faster than I think any other Broadway show.
Like they broke so many records.
I do wonder if a part of that is because thattime being like the advent of Facebook and this sort of social media, social influence world.
Yeah,

have one more follow up question.
I also want to just explain anyone who hasnot heard of the musical Murder for Two.
It is a two hander musical.
That means two actor singerswho also play the entire score.
So they're both

like

trained pianists

Yep.

wow.

is a murder mystery where there's the detective is one actor, the other actor is all of the

Oh, that's so cool.

Mm-Hmm?

created the show with Kellan Blair and played all of the suspects in Chicago.
The show went on to Off Broadway, and Joe has doneiterations of the production across the country.
So is there

LA.
Come to LA.
I want to see

I would

It was at the Geffen, right?

it was at

Oh, was it?

Yeah, but that was before I knew you

I know.

or I would've,

But because you...
Because you've done the show so many times,like, when you're doing a production in, like, Wichita, you're not, you're not reading the reviews anymore, or are you?

No.
Oh.
So I got my, my equity card in 2009 and . Thatwas the last time I really read reviews.
Because there was one review that itwasn't even mean, it was just like mildly disparaging about like how I was not as important as the other actors, which was true.

(12:58):
Um,

Okay.

I was like, yeah, but it like, it, it hurt me in a little, in a, in a way that I was like, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay away from these.
This is why people say to stay away from these.
And since then I've, I've kind of beenable to, to not, uh, not follow them.

But when you're mounting a show, and producers are truly treating these reviews like they're gold, because it has a huge impact on the livelihood of the production, They're the ones dealing with all of it, right?
Like, you can sort of not have to dealwith it because they're gonna look.

That's right.
And, and that's why they come up.
And that's why I know that, uh, theChicago reviews were what they were because it was like, it was in the, the ether.
Like, yeah, it was coming.
It was coming at me, evenif I didn't see it directly.
Uh, yeah.
And then they, producers often will, will finda way to like, hopefully if they're, they're caring and, and trying to, you know, genuinely improve the production of reading all of the reviews to distill what's really, really good.

(14:01):
Universal or like what is a recurringtheme that should be addressed in rewrites?
And um, yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
It's just so funny.
Like you just, you have to get your footin the door so that you're like beyond that because I think so few people really do, really don't care about them at all levels.

(14:22):
You know, it's just like youdo your thing, we'll do ours.

okay, but you just mentioned rewrites, and I'm curious also for the podcast, Let's Start a Coup, when you get these repeated opinions, did you start to think, Oh, maybe Murder for Two should be less silly?
Should we try to write a song that isn't as silly?
Or are you thinking, Okay, when I'm going onto season two of Let's Start a Coup, should I try to change something about myself?

Mmm, yeah, I mean, Kellen and I, writing Murder for Two together, we have a good sense of what we're going for, and what's in line with that goal, and what's not, and I remember the Times review of Murder for Two when we originally opened pointed out one Segment that was, it was a line that got cut between the nonprofit, uh, and then transferring to the commercial production.

(15:15):
'cause it was in two theaters in New York,

Oh my god, I forgot about that.

Pizza Hutt line

I don't know.

we came in after the review came out and we had this dumb line about pizza Hutt.
It really was stupid.
And the review pointed it out and the producersaid in the next meeting, like, well, the times did not care for the pizza hotline.
And we thought about, we'relike, yeah, that is kind of dumb.
So we caught it.
We cut it and caught it.
We caught it and cut it before ittransferred to the commercial production.

(15:44):
So I guess in that sense, it was like, okay,we didn't change the whole tone of the show to be a Brechtian drama because, you know, someone didn't get the point, but someone who did get the point was like, you can do better than that, and we probably could.

Yeah.

on the flip side of these reviews, How impacted is your personal decision making by online reviews?

Um,

Like, do you look at reviews ever?
For, like, a restaurant?

well, I'm the wrong person to ask because I go to like three restaurants, and I know they're great, because it's, they're the only three restaurants I go

So what you're saying is you trust no one.
You trust yourself.
If you've been

I'm wearing a tinfoil hat right now.
Yeah,

If you've been there and you can vouch for it yourself, you're going.

I guess, is it hypocritical if I look at Yelp them?
What do you think?

Is it hypocritical?
No.
I mean, I look at Yelp all the time.
I also ignore the haters.
I don't, I feel like I existon all ends of the spectrum.
And I think that that's what's so greatabout what Trey and I do and what we'll get into when we get into the crowning of this review is we really are breaking down.

(16:56):
Like you said, some people have reallynegative things to say, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to go.
That doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker for me.
That might mean that actually, Like your producerwas saying might end up being a positive, right?
Like we read a review a couple weeks agoabout a hayride and the person was like, not that scary and I'm afraid of my own shadow.

(17:17):
So I was like, that is excellent

my hair red.
Right.

my hayride.
You know what I mean?
So, so I do think that there's, there's something

like, if I am the child of the person who created Domino's, I'm going to love that line about Pizza Hut, because Pizza Hut is

Oh, yeah.

Right.
That's right.

maybe it's like the general tenor thing, like kind of how, you know, the producers, smart producers will kind of get the median feedback from the reviews that came out and then say, okay, they're all saying that this part is unclear or whatever it

right.
I mean, I think that, yeah, I think thatthe hardest thing is being branded with like that three and a half stars and just having people completely write you off.

Mm hmm.
Wait, Chelsey, can I say one otherthing that I love when you read my bio?
How you were like, um, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, award nominations.
You did it exactly right with just nominate,award as loud as you can be, and the nominations like, I'm moving on, moving on, and over here.

because I get it.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's an honor to be nominated.
You know, it's just an honor to be nominated.
The rest of it is who knows what.

But like, how many people have been nominated for a Drama Desk Award for a musical?
I mean, it's insane.
It's like, there are these like sevenplayers who are always produced.
How do you write a musical?
Period.
And then get nominated for a trophy.
I mean, it's fucking insane.
Regardless, it really is

for

you, that's

Well, Joe, we're glad that you're here and you are officially crowned and inducted into the Queendom.
So you are now officially a Review Queen.

the only award that matters,

Joe, our most newly crowned Review Queen, I am gonna be reading a review and together you, me, and Trey are going to break it down, rate the impact of the review on a scale from zero to five crowns.
It is a very regal process that we call

VOICEOVER (19:22):
Assess That Kvetch, Review That

So Joe, one final question.
Are you ready?

yes, bring it,

VOICEOVER (19:32):
Review,

All right, today we're going to Yelp for this review.
This is a place that holdsa special place in my heart.
I don't know about you, butit is called Marie's Crisis.

Oh yes.

is a piano bar in New York City.
It's a historic piano bar, according toGoogle, that draws a crowd of gay locals and musical theater performers in dimly lit digs, which I always think about this place as, yes, being very dimly lit, but then they have those rainbow, like Christmas

Mm-Hmm?

It's a vibe, you guys.

It's such a vibe.

When I was living in New York, I personally went to this place several times a week, so I'm gonna just go ahead and say that bias out loud before we get started.
Maria's Crisis only has three and a half stars.
on Yelp.
Now, obviously that's not my opinion, right?
So this might stop some people from going.

(20:33):
I don't know if this particularreview will have that effect.
So let's find out together.
This is a one star review written by Adam L.
of Marie's Crisis Piano Bar in New York City.
Here we go.
This place is a joke.

oof,

A bunch of vapid and elitist singers.
That exemplify what is wrongwith the Broadway crowd.

oh,

These sub par chorus actors

Oh,

will make you feel bad.
For being there, because you're not a regular,This gatekeeping bullshit is ridiculous, The whole time I was there, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, I was just like, Oh, honey, You may be able to carry a tune, But you're still a nobody, end quote, crisis encourages.

(21:50):
This elitist behavior to make sure thatthey're drunk, unsuccessful, unhappy, musical theater rejects come back day in and day out, it's called stroking their egos.

oh, okay.

And it's working, failure leads to drinking, and drinking leads to profit, I came in the bar, a huge musical theater fan, But I came out questioning if I even wanted to like it, What a shame, a place can do this to someone I've loved since a child,

Wow.

Do you think this is Adam Lampert?
No.

no one would be rejecting Adam Lambert from singing,

I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Oh my God.
Listeners, you need to find a way to see.
Chelsey, Read That Review, becauseher, her body completely changed and you embodied a very angry man.
It was great.

Thank you, thank you.
Little Patreon plug there if you want to see the,

Body change.

performance.

That was so

so Joe, what are your first, what's there for you?
Have you been to Marie's Crisis?
You have, yes?

Oh, just a couple of times.
I mean,

Chelsey was like, do you think, do you think that

I'm like, I hope that he's been,

I feel

probably been.

I have, I have so many thoughts.
I don't know where to begin.
I wrote down a few keywords like elitist.
Crisis is like the cheapestbar for like 10 square miles.

Yeah.

Unless the drink prices went up since I was last there, I don't think I've been there post lockdown, but I certainly was there in 2019,

And also go and get a beer.
You don't want to like mess

Yeah, elitist.
I mean, maybe he's meaning likeelitist, like leaving people out,

thought elitist as in getting able to sing a song, not the

well, you have to

tip.
Put a tip in the jar.

a tip in the jar and get there early.
Like, that's my main thing is liketime of day for Marie's crisis.
Get, get there when they open.

crisis to yourself if you're going to go on a Tuesday night.

knows.

Correct.

knows because she's done it many times.

You can do most of the score of Annie

Oh, yeah.

just your friends,

done all of Hairspray.

Yeah, there you

woman show, you know?

I mean, uh, it was very funny, especially the way you did it, but like there, there was an, a lot of self hatred in this review.
Like this is someone who has some

is someone who didn't get cast in the chorus in high school.
I'm sorry to say.

Yeah.
And like you go in there and yeah, it's, it getsreally crowded and the floor was last cleaned.
Yeah.
When Marie ran it, yeah,

So sticky.

so sticky and it is dark but dark and cheap and loud can be real pluses if you're in the right frame of mind and if you want to, singing the score to Chicago can be such a joyous experience,

Agree.

Well, because I'm sort of getting a story of Adam.
Adam keeps separating themselves from the

Yes.
Good

So it sounds to me that Adam is a fan of musical theater, heard that was, heard that this is a place to like be amongst them and then really felt alienated.
So Uh,

And you know what?
I want to validate that for one second for Adam

can

I will, I will say that when I first went now, luckily I went with a regular, which I think is a really nice bridge.
If you have a friend that goes to Marie'sall the time and you're thinking about dappling, go with them because that helps.
But there is this feeling of like,It's sort of like a cheers for gay people and musical theater enthusiasts.

(26:03):
So, if you're not in the place where everybodyknows your name, you're probably gonna feel uncomfortable until you get over that hump.
But I do think that this review has value in thefact that, yeah, there is a little bit of that.
In crowd vibe.

for

hmm, yeah,

think that Adam takes it a little bit far and I don't think that Adam was trying to be funny.

mm hmm, yeah, mm hmm,

well wait, I want to back up, just for anyone who has, doesn't know what Marie's Crisis is, Marie's Crisis is this tiny, tiny, tiny, little hole in a wall bar that literally has a piano player that has like an extended, like, top that, like, you can put,

you can sit

he's, like, locked inside of this little, like, square The piano player will play scores to musicals.
You can like sing.
It's like a loud piano bar.
That's really strictly musical theater.
I think it is

Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what Marie's crisis is if you don't know what it is, but I did write down the word vapid, which I just Googled just to make sure I was correct.

hmm.

And the definition from the Oxford Dictionary of vapid

Let's hear it.

offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging and their sentence is, ironically, tuneful but vapid musical comedies.

Wow.

weird?

the example

their sentence that they

So it's like insubstantial.

it say underneath it, like example by Adam L.
Like, like he like wrote that sentence.
He's like, let me take this to Oxford, you know?

To your point about humor, I don't know, I also don't think that Adam is intending to be humorous.
There's something, it's really kindof, really exceedingly shady to like, sort of a, We, I feel like we crossed over to like, really inappropriate.
I mean, it's very funny.

What's, what's the Broadway crowd?
What do we think that is?

I don't,

do you define it?

I feel it's not, I don't know.
I don't know that it's like peopleworking in theater who go there.
It's just people who love it.
And I think the love of it is more,it overpowers the vapidity of it.

yeah, good word.

But, is that real?
Look that one up.
Um, yeah, no, y'all are very insightful.
I also don't think for the recordthat he was trying to be funny.
It was like, it definitely came froma place of hurt and being left out, and that's not good for anybody.
Yeah.

Yeah, it is funny, but I think that that's like a side effect of what feels to be this really intense, ostracized feeling

And I think that's funny.
It lands funny to me because I'veactually felt that way at Marie's Crisis.

Yes,

Because I don't I hate karaoke, so it's just a nightmare to begin with.
But when you're there and it's super busy,it's really hard to get a song played because there's all of the regulars.
But I also recognize I'm a visitorhere, so I don't know that I would have such a visceral, like, angry reaction.

So at Marie's, are there solos?
Yes.
Are they usually the waiters who work there?
Yes.
So, a lot of the songs are sung as a group, right?
We're all singing this song together.
So where I'm a little bit confused withAdam and him being such a musical theater stan until this moment, as he claims to be, what is he talking about with the gate keeping or the judgment, right?

(29:39):
Of the other people singing like, Oh, you maybe able to carry a tune, but you're nobody,

a chorus actor.

what are you getting at?
When you go to Marie's Crisis, you'rethere to sing with everybody and maybe you're going to have to sit through, you know, Janet, who was on Broadway in 1975's

I love her work, love her

Love her!
Like Maggie Worth, who is not there anymore, whowas there for like a million years, She wore a Canadian tuxedo every single day, in the summer it was Canadian tuxedo with shorts, and the winter was Canadian Tuxedo with pants, either way both stretchy, and I really appreciated it, and the woman, Was a star nowhere, but she was a star at Marie's and I think that if you're going to come to this place with that kind of judgmental attitude, it's sort of interesting that Adam is calling everybody out for being so judgmental when they were probably judgmental about him because he's Sitting there being like, and you, you're a nobody, like, yeah, if this community who is very tight knit and is sort of looking out for each other as sort of rough around the edges as they might be, they're going to sniff that out and no, they're not going to want you in their house.

Yeah.

I think this is a self fulfilled prophecy for Adam.

Yeah, I think, Joe, you picked up on that in the first comment.
It does feel a lot of, like, selfhatred as, like, underlining this.
Do you think this is typical?
Do you think, like, this is acommon experience going there?

I think if you went, I'm curious what time of day or what, what day of the week he went, obviously he went in like later at

He must have gone like a

Saturday night.
Yeah.
And it probably, it was like, Theywere pulling requests, but there were a lot of requests in the hat already.
And the regulars who are there, when theyintersperse their songs, they don't even have to ask what that person's going to sing.
Cause Janet always sings SkidRow parentheses downtown.

You know it!

so there is that like, uh, preexisting relationship.
And I think you have to have a little bit of.
Love and respect for the regulars.
I think it's like, when you go into a placelike that, it's like, it's, it's their home.
It's their community.
It's almost like you're a straight persongoing into a gay bar, which in this context, maybe that is exactly what's happening,

Yes.

say.

but like that level of like, okay, I'm visiting, I want, like, I want to respect what's been predetermined already, if that makes sense.

Totally.
What do we think about the business advicethat Adam decides to land at the end?
It's working.
Failure leads to drinking and drinkingleads to profit, like, thank you for that.
Where's that coming

Well, I think we talked about this early on 'cause I don't necessarily think that the people working on Broadway are going to Marie's crisis on a normal basis.
So I think the people are there out of joy.
They're singing out of joy.
I don't think they're singingfrom a place of failure,

Mm

in my opinion.
But does failure lead to drinking?
Probably.

Does drinking lead

profit?
I think so, right.

Ah ha!

very, bars aren't going anywhere.

Yeah.

But that does feel, it does feel emblematic

It does, it does feel, yeah, the,

like an outsider coming in and

the outside.
Yeah, exactly.
That's

sing Waving Through a Window, you'll feel better, Adam.

right.
I know, I know.

also, this is the road that led him to discover he didn't like musicals.
Well, it's a much cheaperroad than going to see a show.

much cheaper than

we're getting a BFA.
Right.

Yes.

You got a beer, you probably heard at least one song you liked.

relax.

got a Heineken, you got a lifetime of stick on your shoes you will never get off.

Oh my God, yes.

But even that I find kind of charming.
I don't know if that's weird.
I'm partial to this place, so, there you go.

I know.

Oh Adam, Adam, I hope you're okay.

do you think Adam was writing this getting an ice cream cone at Big Gay Ice Cream?
Just mad

think, yeah, I think that he's, he's writing a song called Since a Child, um, at, at Big Gay Ice Cream next door and he's like, Since a child, I had a dream

ha ha ha

of dreams and time gone by.

Alright, so, before we crown, Is there, is this a deal breaker?
If reading this, and you're from Milwaukee,and you're excited to go to Marie's Crisis, is this going to have an impact on you?
I don't know, I mean If I've never been thereand I'm reading reviews of Marie's Crisis,

Yeah, it's a good question.
Because, I mean, I'm a kind of introvertedmusical theater person, And maybe this would put me off, but I have to, You were saying the reviews are pretty average on The

three and a half overall,

bad, that really is too bad, because

but also maybe it's good because it keeps the atoms

But who's writing a review of Marie's Crisis?

I should, I really should for all the times I

this kind of makes me want to write one, just saying, they're doing

to get that up to a 3.
8, you know?

gonna have

and they're working so hard, it's a live piano player who can do literally anything you want, really good.

Yeah, how do you get that

and they're talented, they're really talented, you know, like, they have to be so good to be able to play all this music, and,

keys, and they know that when I've had two martinis that you're never fully dressed without a smile has to be slower,

right,

know?

ah yes, they can adjust the tempo based on how many drinks

Like it turns into like a real strut.

Alright, I think I could crown

okay, let's go, let's go into the crowning, and I'm gonna do a little Maggie Worth impersonation in the after show, so, if that's not a reason to join Patreon, I don't know what is,

Joe, you ready to

Yes, I'm writing my number really big on marker.

okay, perfect,

So, Chelsey, Joe, and I all have our own set of zero to five crown cards.
In an effort to be fair and not influence oneanother, we will simultaneously reveal our rating.

VOICEOVER (35:42):
The Queens are tabulating.
Total Score.

Okay, Joe and I are unanimous with two crowns, Trey's coming in with one and a half.
Joe, you go first.
Tell us why you gave two crownsto Adam Lambert, I mean Adam L.

Well, Adam Pascal.
Uh, well, um, listening to y'alltalk about the exclusionary component boosted it a little bit for me.
Cause at first I was like, how dareyou come into this semi sacred space.

Yes,

With no windows, and no fire escape, and, And tell people that they're not doing it right, When all they're trying to do is express their love, For this horribly marginalized art form,

that's right.

But then you think of how musical theater people, As you're saying Trey, can be, can be a little bit like, Uh, you've never heard of the Golden Apple from 1954, Nevermind, you know, or like, can't, can't talk about anything else, So, that boosted it a little bit, and I feel for Adam, and I want Adam to find his tribe, so I, I raised it probably by one, from where it would have been.

Yeah.
I feel it.
Chelsey, why did you say two?

Very similar reasoning to Joe.
There was a part of my heart that just, Ithink, connected here with Adam and I do feel, I relate to the idea of feeling excluded and I do think there is a little bit of that vibe.
So I think that if I did read this review priorto going to Marie's, like, let's say I read A really good five star and I read this, I think it falls somewhere in between those two and I do think there's value there and that was why I went with two crowns, but I do think this is a lot about Adam and not a lot about Marie's and a lot of sort of name throwing and a lot of bullying for someone who's been bullied, so for that reason I couldn't go above two crowns, but I did want to throw them, throw them the two, not quite middle of the road as Trey likes to say, but Trey went with two crowns.

(37:50):
for a full crown below middle of the roadwith that one and a half, so let us know why.

So I said one and a half because ultimately I just think it's really mean spirited that there are some truths in here perhaps, but I think they are truths to someone that is.

hmm.

I also just, the whole assessment of a community of people when you aren't in the community of people just feels icky to me.
And saying singers in quotes, like the firstsentence or two sentences is like, singers in quotations, like, it's just so shady.

I'm sorry.

Um, that even so, I, if I agree on some of the points, this would not have, like, a deal breaking impact for me, I would want to read other reviews, so I just said one and a half,

making me rea Can I tell a little anecdote?

Yes,

my friend David and I said a long time ago, which is, We said it about gay men, but I think it's actually just true about musical theater fans.
We're the only people who can cry whilejudging, and we saw this high school production of Once on this Island That was perf no.
We've all seen that production, too.

Wait, what did you say in my life?

No, Once on this Island.
We can talk about in my life forever.
That was

a shoe pork alone.

So this production of Once on this Island was performed by high schoolers who had survived Hurricane Katrina.
So they were, they were amazing.
They were so talented.
They did a great job and the audience issobbing start to finish cause you know, it's so emotional that show already.
And then you combine it withthe fact of who they were.
But then when they sing the song Ti Moune.

(39:38):
Uh, the girl playing Ti Moune said,um, now I go without one backward look while she's leaving her parents, right?
And she was facing her parents.
So I was like, you're talking about not doinga backward look while you're looking backward.
So I'm like tears running down my face,but I'm like, that's not what the text

my God.
That's hilarious.

Yeah.

gonna, you

really emotional, but I'm also like, who, what was like,

That's an interesting choice.

thinking?
What was the director thinking?

If, if you were in that production listening, you did a great job.
I was just like a one choice.
I would've, you know, had a quibble with

whoa,

That's okay.
That's how my mom always was whenshe would come see me in a show.
Everyone will be like, you were so great.
She's like, I've noticed the mistake you made, you

oi, gavolt, wee

God.

wee oo, wee oo, it's game time!

Oh my goodness.
Here we go.

Today I have formulated a one of a kind, never existed before game, specific to Joe.
So listeners, you're gonna play along,and we're gonna find out together.
Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
of the game is, Do you Kinosianthis Broadway Overture?

(41:00):
So I have selected ten Broadway openings,overtures, first down beats of a musical,

I don't stand a chance, I'm just

and Chelsey is gonna compete against Joe.

you're gonna be great.
We're gonna get this

In full disclosure, some of these songs...
Will be a chord.
Some of these songs, I think thelongest clip I have is 35 seconds.
So in fairness,

I'm just kidding.
. I dunno.

I originally had a concept of doing musicals for Joe and doing operas for Chelsea just so that she

Ah,

Really lose but

Chelsea's gonna lose anyway, it's fine.

Okay.
So just in the vein of Adam L If any of ourlisteners do not know Broadway Overtures from Accord, we're gonna include them in the community so we're gonna let all of the clips play out in their entirety, but When you, Chelsey, when you, Joe, when you, listener, when you know the show you're gonna shout out So, Kinosian!

(42:08):
Okay, so that way we'll determinewho gets to go first, Chelsey or Joe.
And then when the clip ends,I will ask for the answer.
If you are incorrect, the othercontestant gets a chance to guess,

Having heard the whole clip,

and the other person's guess.
So okay, and I'm looking forthe name of the show, and

Not the composer, I'm never gonna, no, no, no.

I wasn't gonna say that, I'm looking for the actual title of the track of the

no,

So it needs to be...
It

So some are overtures and some are just like openings, opening numbers.

Yes.

So, one more time, we're gonna be playing, Do You Kinosian?
This Broadway Overture, or opening of the show.
Alright, Chelsey and Joe, are you ready to play?
Okay, here we go, number one.

Kinosian.
Oh, one,

That was me, I won, I clearly,

I think it was Chelsey.
Chelsey, what is it?

okay, um, that was Hairspray, and the song was Good Morning Baltimore,

Woo.

Chelsey, you are right.

Mark Shaman composer.
Can I get partial credit?

All those EPAs definitely came in handy,

Can we play this all day?
This is like the most fun I've ever had.

do you know the composer and lyricists?

uh, no, I don't know, I don't go that deep, but Joe

of the game, but Joe, what, who are they?

I know Mark Shaman is the, is it Scott Whitman?
Yeah.
I know Mark Shaman's composer.
Yeah.

amazing, I love that, okay,

Okay, get ready.
Here we go.
Number two.
You ready?
Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?

Kinshian!

Kinosian,

All right, that was clearly Joe.

That's from the Phantom of the Opera, and I believe that is the overture, but I believe it plays after the little, um, A collector's piece.

Yeah, there's a scene.
Locked 666.

I need to nerd out for a moment.
I love that that show startsand with just a long book scene

I know!
Also, it was funny to me compiling these.
Oh, wait, you're right.

that's correct,

Because the, just the like synthesizer sound is such a giveaway.

oh totally it's of the era

we're tied.
You both have a correct.
So here we go.
Number three.
Wait, really?

Kinosian, is it?
Is it, um, is it Peter

have any?
Are you guessing?

Is it Peter Pan?

ends if you're guessing.

I'm guessing.
I'll guess Peter Pan.
Okay.
Joe,

Joe, I'm gonna, do you want a hint?

i would love a hint i don't think i get it though

Well, I don't know how

just play it.
You want to just play it again?

it one more time, and just think, this is produced a lot,

I have a second guess.

forever plaid no

the nut?
Is it the Nutcracker?
Oh, geez, Louise.

let me do, let me do another hint, it's the same composer as Phantom of the Opera,

Oh, Little Night Music?
Oh,

an andrew lloyd weber show Uh, Whistle Down the Wind,

What was Andrew Lloyd Webber's first musical?

Joseph?
Joseph was his first.

VOICEOVER (46:41):
you for watching!

It's Joseph.

Some folks dream of the wonders they'll do,

I only know the 1968 first recording, the one where Quentin Blake of Roald Dahl fame did the illustrations, so I, uh, I should know that.
So Trey, you're right.
That, that smirk you're giving me is correct.

I just thought, I, I love that you guys didn't know it, I thought it was really obvious, which is why I made it three, because I thought it would be too

I mean, you thought it'd be obvious.
You remember the Little Bow Wow Woman?
I mean, did you think that all of asudden I was going to become a new human?

All right, here we go.
So this one,

yeah, yeah, go ahead.

yes, Jacob and Sons.

Jacob and Sons is the first

four.
Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?

Kinosian!

Oh, I think, I know, I think I can it now, but Joe beat me obviously.

VOICEOVER (47:40):
The
Star Spangled Banner

All right, Joe, you were, you got it.
What do you think it is?

I believe it is Les Misérables, um, but is the song called Look Down or is it?

Yeah, I think it's looked

tough.

Is it?
Yeah.

it's not.
It's called Overture, Work Song.

Work song.

works, but still I,

But then in some, they also call it a prologue, like in the libretto, but not on the track.
So we're just gonna, you knew it was Les

That was a point for Joe.
That's two to one.
I got there, but not, not as fast as Kian.

here we go.
This one, this one is, well, we'll see.
I don't know.
Here we go.

Oh God.
Okay.


Kinosian.

Already?

Sorry.
Yeah, I know.
I'd know that D5 to a C major 7 anywhere.

Alright, what is it?

That is into the woods.

Oh, I'm

And that is,

Woods fan, I'm sorry to say.

oh, you're not?
Okay.

Yeah.

Uh, I.

it's controversial.

um, pros and cons for sure, because, you know, it does have some lines that really wishes are children, but, you know, it's, it's got a lot of good stuff.

Wait, that, Mark Tuminelli, friend of the pod, that's his, he like cringes at that,

It's a tough lyric for a song.
Yeah, it's a little, it's a little corny.

Okay, here we go.

That was so good, though, my God.

know.
I believe it's called prologue,

You're

doubt.

classic title, you know,

Okay, here we go.

Kinosian?
Kinosian.

Kinosian,

Sadly, Joe went into the original choreography instead of saying the word

I forget.

So, um, Chelsey, you got it.
What do you think that

That's, that's, that's Fiddler.
That's Fiddler on the Roof.

Yes, yes.
The literal

song called?

Overture.
Fiddler, the fiddler on the roof.
It's okay.
I got the point.
Tradition!

Okay, here we

Tradition!
Thank you.

All right.
So, oh, Chelsey, you're doingso much better than I thought.
so proud of you.

That's only because Joe broke into the choreography and hadn't had a moment.

How can you hear that and not

I know, I

bottle dance?

know.
Dun dun dun dun dun.


Oh, Kinosian.

Alright,

Last Five Years.

Chelsey.
Chelsey!
Whoa!

Jason Robert Brown.

Have you ever heard of The Last Five Years, Joe?

No.

Oh, what is that called?
What's that called, Chelsey?
What's the track called?

Oh, God.
I'm really bad with the name of songs.
I will always...
Oh.
Dun dun dun

Okay guys,

Jamie is over and Jamie is gone.
That one.
Yeah.

so we have,

show very well.

to move on.

Trey, we're singing.
I know you're trying to playthe game, but there's a song

there's a song happening.
It's we, I mean, we just talked about Marie's.
How come we not,

Okay, so we have three more, plus...
Plus a tiebreaker.
So here we go.

We're neck and

You're gonna win.
You're gonna win.


VOICEOVER (51:56):
I'm Joe Kinosian, I'll see you in the next video.

So pretty.
I like the end.

Joe, do you know?

I believe that's Oklahoma.

Oh,

Very good, Joe.

The first like couple measures could have been literally any origin.
It's like

man.
For a second.
I didn't know where we

Yeah, very traditional.

unspecific.
Yes.
Oh, it's, uh, those are the dayswhen they could afford orchestras.

know.
Wasn't that so

of

That was, that was gorgeous.

All right.

love it.


The face.
Oh, uh, Kinosian,

Oh, it's, I know, Kinosian.

VOICEOVER (53:07):
My

All right, Joe, you were first.

The Producers,

it's just probably Overture, right?
Because it was like a bunch of the, Iheard Springtime for Hitler in there.

Also, I really struggled with, um, Good Morning Baltimore because there actually is an overture that is not on the cast recording.
That

there is,

that leads into the beginning of Good Morning Baltimore, but it's

don't even remember that from seeing the play,

It's like,

couple seconds,

and it's more or less the same.

interesting.

Here is our final one of the mainround Now, get ready, cause, just get ready, it's the last one on purpose,

Oh, no.
Okay.
That

scared,

Kinosian,

Kinosian, if it's what I think it is.

Kinosian.
Yeah, for sure.
I

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

VOICEOVER (54:13):
Outro For My 20th Birthday

alright, well, Chelsey, you were first,

so I think this is Chicago.
I'm wrong!

You're so close though.
You're like a couple letters off.

you're so close, alright, Joe, you did

oh, wait, what was I wrong?

should get half a point for that because that's the same composer as Cabaret.

it's Kevin Ray,

from Cabaret.

yes,

okay, okay, all right, well, at least I got the same composer,

you don't get a point,

that's okay, I didn't give myself

you're not our guest, alright, here we are, so, ironically, Chelsey has three, and Joe has six, but, this is the tiebreaker,

But this is for the game.

This is for the game, so this is actually worth 10 points,

my God.

well, okay,

could win, you ready?

yeah,

Yes.
Kinosian.

is this your show?

Yeah.
I

Kinosian, because I know how his brain works,

Alright Joe, you were first,

believe that's Murder for Two, the Drama Desk nominated hit of several years back.

gonna say that's insider baseball, but I'll allow it.

no, so Joe, what is that titled?

It's Prelude, right?
Prelude and Waiting in the Dark?

Just Prelude.
So why is it, so what is a prelude?
Why not an overture or a prologue?
What is a prelude?

well because an overture is definitionally taking parts from other songs and our prelude was like, you know, it's before the like show really gets going, but it's, it's, it was an original thing.
It uses at the very end the piece ofanother song, but it's mostly, um, original.

Well Joe, a huge sweep here, yeah, a real landslide.

Stevie Nicks!

Congratulations, Joe!
You are the winner!

I'm honored.
Chelsey, you did great.
You

you.
I do, you know, I feel like prouder of myself thanI thought I would at the end of this, I will say.
I don't think it completelyembarrassed myself and my family.

No.
No.

I do have one final question, though.
So I chose the prelude, so let's notspeak, and I just want to play it for a second, because I have a question for you.

Oh, okay.

Okay, I think it's so funny, but it's music.
How do you do that,

My God, thank you.
That is the absolute best compliment I couldget on that, because that was exactly the idea, is to set up that this is a zany show, but set up that the two actors are really gonna play well for you and, like, have a lot, um, the music is gonna factor in very...
heavily, but it was just really funny tome that, that the one actor would have all the, all the complicated stuff high up on the piano and the other would just play one single note in response, like, like a very unhelpful scene partner, just meh.

(58:20):
And so, you know, he tries playing reallyquietly and sweetly and the other guy bangs on the piano and then he plays really loud and the other one does like a real soft one.
And I was also thinking oflike, what would be fun to act?
Cause even as a, when I'm thinkingmusically, I'm still thinking like an actor.
Because that person is on stage, they'restill helping tell the story, no matter what.
And so I was like, it would be funny to makefaces while you were doing something like that.

and when did that piece get developed?
Was the show sort of formed already,or was that the first thing?

no, it was, um, so we had the world premiere in Chicago, and then it was added when we came to New York, and it was actually, can I drop a little bit of a name?

always.

Was it Sondheim?

No, it wasn't.
Although he did say he liked it.
Uh,

Oh,

I wasn't there, but I heard.
No, um, it was StephenSchwartz of Wicked fame, who

Oh,

his son directed, right?

his son directed it.
Yep.
Uh, Scott Schwartz directed it.
And, um, Stephen Schwartz came to a previewand was like, I really liked the first song, but I feel like it doesn't demonstrate virtuosic piano playing and could you do something that starts it off that was like virtuosic, would that just like give the audience more of an understanding of the show?

(59:35):
So the assignment was just Exciting, complicated,like, Grieg esque, complex piano music, and then I was like, oh, let's also, like, think of what they're doing and, like, how physically that could be funny, because the show ends with a very physical piano thing that's just playing too,

So cool.

Yeah, thanks, that's really sweet of you, Trey, thank you for

So, so captivating from the second it starts.
I love it.

JOE KINOSIAN (01:00:01):
I also like, one of my favorite quotes about music, I know we're going

TREY GERRALD (01:00:04):
No,

you'll, you'll love this, is a critic asked Adi DeFranco, where her, her guitar voice came from, like her jangly, dee da da da dum bum bum, dee da, like that, sort of like, and she said it was from playing piano bars.
That she loved to be really loud and thengo completely silent because that was the only thing that shut the crowd up.

(01:00:26):
Yeah, and so I was also like the idea of likeplaying something like you heard really loud and then a lot of pause just to like make people self conscious and shut up and pay attention.

CHELSEY DONN (01:00:35):
Yeah.
That's so smart.

and when you listen to it, because I saw the show multiple times in person, but when you listen to the cast recording, just the, it's so funny, even without seeing the physical comedy or the character interplay, you just get, it's like, fabulous.
Like it, it plays

Never takes itself seriously.
Yeah, totally.

Wow.

this has truly been so much fun.

fun.

whole rigmarole is not gonna end here.
We are gonna pop over to Patreon, but Joe,thank you so much for joining us today.
We love you so dearly.
Thank you for helping build credibility for ourpodcast by giving us such an amazing theme song.
I mean it really It was one of the mostrepeated bits of compliment that we, I got when we first started, it was like, holy shit, because it's the first thing you hear,

Yeah.

you can all follow Joe on Instagram, this is an update,

it's new.

Whoo.

Kinzo, that's J-O-E-K-I-N-Z-O.
You could listen to the podcast.
Let's start a coup exclamation mark onall of the podcast players that exist.
Listeners, if you are interested and you wouldlike to license Murder for Two at a theater near you, you can obtain the performance right.
at concordtheatricals.
com.

(01:01:58):
To learn more about Joe and his frequentwriting partner that I personally love, Kellan Blair, you can visit kinosianandblair.
com.
Joe, are there any projects, any things on thehorizon that you could maybe tease or not tease?

Everything is very nebulous.
As I told you, um, I did a musical called, ItCame From Outer Space, premiered at Chicago Shakespeare last summer, and there will hopefully be another production of that, uh, somewhere wonderful, uh, before too long, but it's definitely, you know, in, in the works.
See Murder for Two if it's in your city.

Yes.

sure.
Well, okay.
Before we jump over onto our Patreon, Joe,we like to ask our guests one final question.
What is one piece of advice you'd give onhow to manage and handle online haters?

Oh, put down your phone and read a book, honest to God,

Get them out.

I read a book called Stolen Focus, and it's just basically about how dangerous the habit of a smartphone can be, and it really inspired me to like, okay, definitely got to like, continue the uphill climb because I want to, I want to look at it right now, you know, but the uphill climb of like focusing and getting your focus back and, um, using your time for you and not for what you think you should be doing, which is.

(01:03:19):
Wasting time.

Love that.

No judgment, but cause you know, we're all, we're all in this together.
But, uh, yeah, that was very inspiring.

true.
It's so true because we feel like the wholeworld exists on our smartphones because we're on them all the time, but the reality is it doesn't and there's life outside of your smartphone and I'm not quoting Avenue Q, you know?

Oh, there you go.

But, but I appreciate your point of view in the world of creating with both sides being true of valuing and not valuing reviews and opinions and how it doesn't stop you from creating because that can stop a lot of people but it hasn't stopped you which is very inspiring.

Well, thank you.
I mean, uh, uh, there's that Warhol quoteabout make art and then while people are talking about it, make more art.
And that's a good guideline.
It's like there, people are going to say allsorts of things for all sorts of reasons and just,

love that quote.

Well we did it Queens, that is another round on the RUARQ Ferris Wheel of RUARQ.
Did you get it?
I did the, I did the prelude.

yeah, oh no.
I got it.

If you like what you heard, please tell a friend.

If you did not like what you heard, please tell an enemy.

On this week's After Show Pod, we are diving deeper with Joe as we rate and review a one star review he personally received.
Ignore

Uh oh.

Can't wait.

And Joe is also going to take a spin on the Meryl Go Round.
And somehow, this got said.

These are your Review Queens!

And as always, remember,

the haters!
You're a queen!
Oh, Manga,

gender non specific, Queen.
Buh bye!

Bye.

VOICEOVER (01:05:11):
Sign up directly on Apple Podcast to hear our weekly members only after show unlock additional benefits when you become a Patreon member@reviewthatreview.com slash patreon.
Follow us on all the socials at the review queensand join our mailing list@reviewthatreview.com.
Arc vetch line is open 247 at 1 8 5 0 review zero.

(01:05:31):
Don't be a ogana.
Call the kvetch line today.

Oh my god.

Delightful.
Y'all are such pros.

You're

so fun.

kidding me?

I seriously wanted that game to never end.
I was like, can this go on forever?

I still cannot believe that Joseph stumped you.
Your name is Joe.

I know, but like, I, I know an earlier version that starts with dun, dun, dun, da, ba, ba, da, ba,

Okay, it's interesting you say that because I obviously wanted to do West Side Story, but

duh nuh

is a, there are two different,

nuh nuh!
That

The original Broadway musical is different than the film, and I think of,

Yeah.

Oh.

original overture is different.
So it's like, I'm just, I'mnot getting into the weeds.
And then I guess I pickedthe fucking wrong Joseph one.

Ok, listen, Joe still massacred this game, ok?
Do we need to give him more of a lead?

True.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}128: Marie’s Crisis with Guest of Honor JOE KINOSIAN

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

All Episodes

128: Marie’s Crisis with Guest of Honor JOE KINOSIAN

Dateline NBC