January 23, 2025 • 50 mins
In this power-packed first episode of 2025, host Angela Connell-Richards is joined by industry legend Lauren Hollows to unpack what the Revised Standards for RTOs really mean—and why waiting to prepare could cost you big.
💡 You’ll learn:
- What’s changing from 1 July 2025—and why it matters
- The risks of leaving compliance to the last minute
- How ASQA’s Practice Guides + AI tools can fast-track your readiness
- Why creating a compliance culture is more important than ever
🎯 Plus: Don’t forget to complete the ASQA survey before 27 Jan 2025 to have your say.
🔊 Tune in now for real talk, smart strategies, and a few laughs to start your compliance year strong!
Join host Angela Connell-Richards as she opens each episode with a burst of insight and inspiration. Discover why compliance is your launchpad to success, not a limitation.
Connect with fellow RTO professionals in our free Facebook groups: the RTO Community and RTO Job Board. Visit rtosuperhero.au/groups to join today.
Ready to elevate your RTO? Join our Superhero Membership community and gain access to expert resources, training, and personalised support to help you thrive.
Wrap up with gratitude and guidance. Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community as we continue supporting your compliance journey in vocational education.
Thank you for tuning in to the RTO Superhero Podcast!
We’re excited to have you join us as we focus on the Revised Standards for RTOs in 2025. Together, we’ll explore key changes, compliance strategies, and actionable insights to help your RTO thrive under the new standards.
Stay connected with the RTO Community:
📌 Don’t forget to:
âś” Subscribe to the RTO Superhero Podcast so you never miss an episode!
✔ Share this episode with your RTO network—compliance is a team effort!
🎙 Listen now and get ahead of the compliance changes before it’s too late!
📢 Want even more compliance insights? Subscribe to our EduStream YouTube Channel for our FAQ series on the New Standards for RTOs 2025! 🎥
đź”— Subscribe now: EduStream by Vivacity Coaching
✉️ Email us at hello@vivacity.com.au
đź“ž Call us on 1300 729 455
🖥️ Visit us at vivacity.com.au
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Connell-Richards (00:07):
Okay, hello, and welcome everyone to
our new podcast series, the RTOSuperhero, where I've got a
special guest, lauren Hollows,who will be joining me each
month to discuss the newstandards.
So today we thought we'd startwith why you need to prepare for
the new standards now.
Now we've heard a few things onLinkedIn about you know whether
(00:32):
consultants should be rewritingdocuments for the new standards
and should they be selling them, and things like that.
And there's also been otherthings where ASQA have released
a practice guide and we've gotDWORD doing feedback surveys
wanting to know more.
So we thought this would be agreat topic to start with.
So I'll introduce Lauren andshe can give us a little
(00:56):
background about herself.
We've known each other now forover 10 years more, maybe 15.
Lauren Hollows (01:11):
Yeah, all right, go go introduce Lauren Hollows,
um.
So yeah, so my name is isLauren Hollows, lauren Bird
Hollows, um, and I'm from AnoaiaEducation Services.
Um, anoaia has been around forabout five years now and I've
been around for substantiallymore as a, you know, started out
as a trainer and an admin andthen built into compliance
quality CEO operations and nowdoing consulting.
(01:33):
We specialize in creatingreally bespoke assessment tools
and then, you know, through thatwe work very closely with
clients to do things like youknow, build courses.
We got our first courseaccredited with a client last
year and then hopefully thisyear expanding out into some
even more interesting thingsmaking an impact with industry.
Angela Connell-Richards (01:57):
So yeah , that's me.
Yes, so you were saying you'regetting involved with some
industry bodies with writingcourses yeah, writing uh courses
that.
Lauren Hollows (02:07):
So yeah, we're hoping yeah, we're hoping to be
working with some um providers,some of the actual training
package uh managers, to actuallystart updating units of
competency and bringing a reallystrong lens to that of.
You know, we build a lot ofassessment tools and so you know
when we can write, when we canhave units of competency that
(02:29):
really understand how that thentranslates to like having to
then build training andassessment, run training and
assessment around that.
I think that we'll be able toreally help contribute to the
industry.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:40):
I'm interested are they around the
new qualifications framework andwhat they're?
So you'll be working towardsthat as well.
Lauren Hollows (02:47):
Yeah, Absolutely yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:48):
Yeah, there's going to be lots of
discussions had?
Yeah, awesome, all right.
So, if you've had your head inthe sand, we have some revised
standards.
So we've got outcome standards,we've got the credential policy
and we've got the compliancerequirements.
The outcome standards is in thefinal draft and there will be
(03:14):
no further edits to that, butthe credential policy and the
outcomes standards, becausethey're still in draft and
they're still up for review.
So there's still lots ofchanges that could happen with
that, because they're still indraft and they're still up for
review.
So there's still lots ofchanges that could happen with
that, but we're still beingprepared.
One of the things that I thinkI would like to know what you
think, lauren, with thecredential standards.
Lauren Hollows (03:38):
Do you think they'll do a backflip on the
qualifications for trainers andassessors no, I think that
that's pretty well set in stone,and I think the compliance
requirements in the credentialpolicy are relatively black and
white documents, yes.
So when it comes to creatingthose into a legislative
instrument, I don't thinkthere's going to be any
challenges.
I actually think that we maypotentially see a change to the
(04:00):
outcomes, and the reason is isthat it's really hard to
translate some of those outcomesinto a legislative standard,
like to meet that legislativeformat requirement.
So, um, I really would like tosee what the actual legislative
instrument is that ends upgetting proposed, because
ultimately, that's what we'regonna have to adhere to.
(04:20):
Um, yeah, you know, and look, Imean, nothing's like.
The only thing that'sconsistent in our industry is
change.
So, you know, whenever somebody, whenever we kind of go out and
go no, this is it, this is whatwe're going with, we're good to
go, like inevitably somebodycomes out the month afterwards
and makes us look silly and thenthey're like actually, we've
changed it and we're like okay,cool, that's great um, and then
(04:44):
asker can uh do a spin on howthey're going to audit it anyway
.
So it's up to individualinterpretation still yeah, yeah,
exactly, and I mean I thinkthat the one good thing I will
say is is um, I mean you and Iboth spent a lot of time with
them at the vel conference thisyear um, they put out a lot of
presentations, so they arecertainly making every effort
(05:06):
possible to make it clear, liketo provide guidance on how you
know policies should be writtento account for that you know how
you can set yourself up in sucha way that you know your
policies can show how you'remeeting the outcome standards
and also making it, you know, aseasy as possible for the
(05:27):
auditors to actually understandhow they should.
Then you know how you'veinterpreted them and how that
then translates to evidence andcertainly that's been a really
good focus for us.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:38):
And I think it's really good how
they've done the process so thatwe've got plenty of time to
prepare.
So it's not like the standardsare in and now you've got to
reinvent everything and then ittakes that catch up time where
ASQA or the regulator isauditing against the new
standards but we're stillwriting, whereas now we've got
(05:59):
plenty of time to prepare, sorewriting all the documents and
things like that.
So I know, so we've alreadybeen discussing what we've been
doing so far.
There's been some talk onLinkedIn about how we shouldn't
be creating new documents orselling new documents at the
(06:21):
moment with the revisedstandards, because it's not
hasn't come into force yet yet.
But I think that's crazy.
Lauren Hollows (06:26):
Uh, apparently only 40 percent of rtos have
actually looked at updatingtheir documents, which yeah, and
I mean, look to be fair, likeyou've probably got 40 percent
of rtos that haven't looked atupdating their documents in the
last five years so you know likeyou know, it's one of those
(06:46):
things, um, I mean, I thinkgeneral best practice is kind of
like a quick review every year,um, but certainly this year's
review should be a little bitmore intensive for most rtos.
Um, I know, like our process hascertainly been.
We've basically gone in, we'vewe've made some pretty big
changes to like the template ofthe policy and how we're
(07:09):
communicating certain aspects ofit to uh, to the regulator in
particular.
So, and then also how we'recommunicating it to um, students
and staff.
So I think, like one of thethings that often happens with
policies and procedures is thatthey're written by compliance
people like us who have a reallygood understanding.
They then have to be translatedfor students and staff members,
(07:35):
and so, you know, we've kind ofhad, we've got new sections
where it's like this is whatthis policy looks like in
practice, and so we've explainedto trainers and we've explained
to students what this policymeans to you from like a user
experience perspective, andthat's off of feedback from
asqua.
And then we've added anothersection where we've kind of gone
(07:55):
um, here's the evidence ofpolicy and practice and so when
this policy is being implementedcorrectly.
Here's some of the documentsthat you.
You know you as an auditor canlook to to see that we're
actually doing the right thing.
So we've really kind of triedto because we've got outcome
standards that are a little bitmore vague than we might have
(08:18):
had in the past.
We really wanted to make surethat we were guiding people.
We were guiding the studentsand the staff to understand
their key points and how itaffects them, and we were then
guiding auditors on like what wethought this meant and where
they could then go to forevidence.
So it was like here's thestandard, here's the policy.
The policy says where you gofor the evidence, here's the
evidence.
(08:38):
A, b, c.
Tick the box.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:40):
We're compliant, we're doing yeah yeah
, we've also included anaccountable person, because that
comes under the vet workforceand leadership and team.
So we've got for every document, who's accountable for that
document, and also with thepolicies and procedures as well.
(09:01):
So who's accountable?
Yeah, we've done the same.
We've done a total new rewriteof the policies and procedures
as well.
So who's accountable?
Yeah, we've done the same.
We've done a total new rewriteof the policies and procedures.
After D was saying we're hopingthat everyone will rewrite and
not map.
But I haven't thrown out thebaby with the bathwater.
I've looked at our previouspolicies and procedures and then
(09:21):
incorporated that in.
And I think some of the greatthings now is the tools that we
can use using AI technology.
Our team have started using atool called Miro where you can
create simple flowcharts.
So you can.
It's AI tech, so you can go inand you can put in what your
policy is or your procedure is,and then it will create it into
(09:45):
a flow chart to make it easierfor people to understand.
So I think, um, the great thingwith uh ai tech now is we're
going to be able to make uh, ourpolicies and procedures easier
to follow yeah, yeah, and I meanthen there's like, I mean
there's obviously.
Lauren Hollows (10:01):
Then there's tools, um, like we were talking
about with dan hill, you knowwhere you can take your policy,
update it and then create thatas like a 10-minute conversation
between two people.
You know, and support studentswith that.
So there is a lot more waysthat we can integrate and I
think that particular part isreally important because to me,
(10:21):
one of the biggest changes inthe standards is about, like,
well-being, student support.
You know, contextualizing,distributed needs and things
like that.
So so many of the learnerswithin the vet space are, you
know, most of them come in at,you know, um, aqf levels and
(10:43):
literacy levels of either basicor functional literacy.
I was doing a podcast about thisthe other day and like,
literally, you've got 44% thatonly have basic literacy rates.
When we look at adults acrossAustralia, you've got 38% that
only have functional literacyrates.
And yet those of us that workin VET, that write materials in
VET, particularly those of usthat work in complianceET that
(11:04):
write materials in VET,particularly those of us that
work in compliance, we'resitting in the top 15%.
Sometimes it can be quite hardfor us to kind of go.
Okay, here's us with ouracademic brains, simple terms.
But when we translate this sothat a student with basic
literacy understands it, how canwe do that?
Because if you've got a policythat you've got to communicate
to a student, but the studentreads it and has absolutely no
(11:27):
idea what it means, then it'suseless.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, and if we can do it in a
simple process where it's justlike step by step, this is what
you need to do.
So, for example, how to submita complaint and or appeal, or if
they want to do an opportunityfor improvement or provide any
feedback which is what we'reseeing in a lot of the documents
(11:49):
is getting that continuousfeedback.
The other thing that we're nowadding to a lot of our documents
now is to comply with the riskmanagement requirements, and the
continuous improvement is we'renow putting risk management in
a lot of our documents, such asWHS, opportunities for
(12:15):
improvement, complaints andappeals, so we're putting it in
those, but we're also creatingnew ones that has a risk level
in it, so you're doing somethingsimilar.
Lauren Hollows (12:25):
Yeah, we've really focused more in and
around like the validation andthe feedback processes for
different courses and units ofcompetency.
So we've got like a wholeprocess for how we actually risk
rate every course that an RTOdelivers, like based on you know
how many of the ASC or riskpriority areas does it hit how?
(12:47):
How much delivery do we do ofit?
Um, is it all online delivery?
Is it a vulnerable cohort?
Um, and all of those sorts offactors go into it and then,
based on that, it's going tocome up with like that force is
going to have a risk rating ofeither like high risk, low risk,
and then that feeds into ourvalidation frequency of it, like
so if we're dealing with wherewe're doing, like, literally,
(13:10):
you know we're doing, thethousands of students.
It's international students,it's a cohort that's highly
vulnerable.
Um, you know it's on asper's,you know kind of risk radar.
Then that's going to requirehigher levels of validation,
more frequent validation.
Then you know, perhaps, course,that we run 20 people through a
(13:31):
year.
That's a workplace, it's anapprenticeship, you know it's.
You know like you could do.
You know, take surgery,commercial cookery, for example.
You could have one cohortthat's 10 students.
That's doing it.
You know, um, over through anapprenticeship.
You know they get a visit everymonth from their, you know, from
their trainer and assessor.
You've got another one whereyou've got 3 000 international
(13:54):
students running through as a,as you know, running through as
a cohort.
They're all from one, like onecontinent or one country.
Um, yeah, totally differentrisk ratings that are going to
be present.
You know, for those things,different validation
requirements, different.
You know mechanisms that weneed to put in and around that.
So we've really brought riskratings.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:16):
And are you doing that in?
Lauren Hollows (14:16):
a spreadsheet, yeah yeah.
So we've kind of got like acalculator that we've set up for
it.
And so when we do our TASreviews, the TAS, you know,
based on the TAS, we take a lookat the risk rating, we set the
risk rating and then that goesinto our validation process.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't like to be
honest.
Lauren Hollows (14:35):
I don't like the ask for risk calculator.
I just think that's far toosimple of a mechanism and it's
just not really.
No, I love it.
So we use a separate system.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:47):
Yeah, how you've broken that down,
that is perfect.
We're doing risk rating basedon overall operations and
compliance with the standards,but I love that idea for courses
as well.
So, yeah, really drilling in.
So how are you incorporating,then, support services?
Does it identify, uh, differenttypes of support services that
(15:10):
you would then require?
Lauren Hollows (15:12):
yeah, so we look at it from a cohort perspective
and then the support serviceswould then be like more attached
to like our um, like the, thesupport and access and equity
policies and things like that.
So we've got, I think, allright, like we've got access and
equity, bullying and harassmentand uh and student support, now
all kind of that we've had tobuild out for all of them, and
(15:36):
that's also been in context ofum.
You know some of theexperiences that we've had with
our rtos this year, reallylooking at how some of the new
hr legislation is playing in um,taking a look at how you know
some of the new safetylegislation is being impacted as
well.
I think hr just seems to be oneof those areas where, um, the
(15:58):
vast majority of rtos reallydon't have a lot of like
experience, like the amount oftimes I'll go in there and
they'll be like, do you havelike a contract for a trainer?
And I'm like, yeah, but likeyou know, are they permanent,
are they part-time, are theycontract, are they?
you know, like what's their?
Qualification Like there's somuch that goes into it with the
(16:20):
way that our instrument is built.
Yeah, much that goes into itwith the with the way that our
instrument is built, um, yeah Ithink hr is definitely one of
the areas that particularlyfocus on that workforce now yeah
, yeah, yeah, which willdefinitely come into more play,
like you know, the fact that wecan't, you know everyone was
focused on do we get trainer pd?
(16:40):
Okay, great, now it's.
There's that whole system youknow what are your?
what pd are your admin getting,which is great, because admin
don't get anywhere near enoughpd, and I know you know this.
Yes, like they do things andthey don't know what they're
doing.
And then we go in and reviewthe data and it's like you guys
have got all of these unitsstarting and finishing on the
(17:03):
same day and they're like, oh,because that's when they came in
to do their one day course.
And we're like, yeah, but yougave them their materials three
weeks before the finalassessment was signed off, two
weeks after that, when thestudent actually submitted it
through your online system.
But you've said it's all donein one day, but it's actually
done over like five weeks youknow massive this is what you're
(17:25):
communicating to the regulator,it's so different.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:28):
I've gone into training organisations
where the admin staff inparticular knew nothing about
the legislation, knew nothingabout what was compliance and
what they needed to have inplace.
I've also met many trainers whodon't understand it either.
So I think it's fantastic thatwe now have Vet PD for everyone,
(17:51):
because they then canunderstand the risks and
understand what they need tohave in place.
And everyone is like.
I've always.
Always said we should have aculture of continuous
improvement throughout the rto,and it shouldn't just be one
person, it should be.
Everyone is part of thatculture.
Lauren Hollows (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, definitely well, ultimately,
we're dealing with trainingorganizations, and if you can't
train your own staff on your ownpolicies and procedures, I find
it really funny that you'reselling services on how to train
other people's staff on knowingtheir policies and procedures,
but you can't do it yourself,like okay cool, yeah, and what
are your thoughts on?
Angela Connell-Richards (18:34):
so what I noticed in the practice
guides is so ASQA's releasedpractice guides now, so if you
haven't heard about this yet,the practice guides are on the
ASQA website.
So far they've released underQuality Area 1, training and
Assessment, and Quality Area 4,governance.
(18:56):
They've got Leadership andAccountability and Risk
Management.
They're still developing guidesfor student support and vet
workforce, so I just thought I'dadd that in there, but they've
included now work integratedlearning, so we've got another
acronym will.
I thought it was fantastic.
(19:18):
I delivered a webinar on thisyesterday and the importance.
So what has been identified inas part of the VET reform, as
well as the new standards, isthere's not enough time for the
students to apply the skills ina real simulated or work
integrated learning environment,and I see that there's a lot
(19:42):
more focus now on workintegrated learning, which I
think is also going to be reallycritical for when you're
writing your training materialsas well yeah, I mean, look, it's
interesting.
Lauren Hollows (19:56):
I was talking to somebody this morning and you
know, she turned around.
She, well, it's prettystraightforward Basically, you
can't assess somebody onsomething that you haven't
trained them.
And I went that's actually, youknow, that's a really beautiful
, simple way of explaining it.
Yeah, but like, certainly thereare definitely some areas, and
(20:19):
I mean I'm just going to say it,this is why Pricos is such a
risk area, because we have, youknow, so often I've seen places
whereby the first time that astudent is cooking a dish is the
time they're being assessed onit, and it's like they've never
made this dish before and nowyou're assessing them on it and
you're assuming that, like thatthe assessment process is the
(20:41):
training process, but like,legitimately, we've never.
Like you're, you're taking astudent that's not working in
industry, that hasn't worked inindustry, and the first time
people are asking them to make asouffle is the time that you're
assessing them on like that's.
That's a big, big, bloody ask.
Yeah, but it does happen a lot,particularly where, like,
(21:06):
there's a high cost toundertaking that assessment,
right?
So you know, like, let's lookat the seafood unit in
commercial cookery, that unit,you know you're looking at a
roundabout.
You're looking at a couple ofhundred dollars a student.
You know you're looking at aroundabout, you're looking at a
couple of hundred dollars astudent.
You know, in physical resources, in fish, in, you know, in
(21:28):
crustaceans in green frogs.
You know like you've got to haveabout six different types of
fish.
You've got a whole, got a wholebank of fish.
So you know there's a hugeexpense to it.
You know we've got hairdressingwhere we've got to do.
You know we've got to useneutralizers we've got to use,
you know, colors um, you've gotpainting where you know you've
(21:49):
got to.
You know you've got to do paintand blast or you've got to.
You know you've got to stripproducts and things like that.
So I think that, particularlywhere we've got really high cost
units to deliver, um, you know,anytime you're're doing like
diggers or anything like that,you know you're up for $100 an
hour.
So I can understand the RTOsgoing.
(22:10):
Well, you know, if I train thestudents on it for eight hours
and then I've got to observethem on it for a further four
hours, I'm looking at $1,200 forthat.
One student in that cost, right?
Yep, okay, nuts, screw that.
They're going to have two hourson the machine to train.
Angela Connell-Richards (22:29):
They're going to have two hours on the
machine to assess, because thatonly costs us $400, right yeah,
whereas if they did work,integrated learning, where they
did a work placement, andthey're able to apply the skills
in the workplace, where they'reselling the dishes, yeah, yeah.
Lauren Hollows (22:46):
Shoot a massively different scenario,
but so many, like so often, andI think this is why, like ASCO,
over the years, have beenpushing RTOs to go when's the
training happening and when'sthe assessment happening?
Because, I know you've got theunit structure there for two
days or for four days, but howmuch of that is in a classroom,
how much of that is in apractical environment?
(23:08):
And in that practicalenvironment how much is training
and how much is assessment?
Angela Connell-Richards (23:13):
Yeah, and how many times are they
applying the skills?
On a number of occasions, yeah.
Lauren Hollows (23:18):
And very few like quite and this is the sad
part is that a lot of RTOsreally do struggle to explain
how that breaks down and that'sprobably the area like when
we're working on a TAS that'sthe hardest area to work with.
Rtos on is like, yeah, but dude, when are they in the classroom
, when are they in the practical?
(23:38):
Okay, and how much of thatpractical time is this and how
much is this?
And yeah, there's just so manyrtos admins, trainers that
really struggle to explain whatis what you know, yeah, yeah and
trainers.
Well, trainers will.
Trainers will turn around to anask for order and they'll be
like, yep, we do this.
Then we go into the kitchen andwe make, we make this, and we
(23:59):
make this and we make this andyou know, ask with those great,
okay, so how many times do theymake that dish?
And they go.
Well, they make the dish once.
Okay, cool, thanks, that'sgreat.
And they don't say anythingelse not because from that one
statement, you've just turnedaround and gone.
We don't train, we only assessyeah, and trainers have got no
idea.
(24:20):
And then it comes into the orderreport and you go what?
Angela Connell-Richards (24:23):
Yeah, you know it's great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,all right.
So we've talked a lot abouttraining and assessment, and so
there hasn't what I could see inthe practice guides.
There hasn't been a lot ofchanges.
There's more focus onassessment validation, which
sort of what we wereexperiencing last year is they
(24:46):
weren't even looking at thelegislation for assessment
validation unless yourassessment tools were
non-compliant, whereas nowthey're going back to.
You've got to have a validationschedule, you've got to have
risk management as part of thatwithin the validation.
They've still focused on therules of evidence and principles
(25:07):
.
Assessment Work.
Integrated learning is the onlything that I've seen.
That is really different.
There is a big focus on RPL.
I'm surprised at how manypeople actually don't understand
how to conduct an RPLassessment, actually don't
understand how to conduct an RPLassessment.
(25:28):
And do I need to have an RPLkit if I'm delivering only
single units and I'm like yes,the legislation says that you
must offer RPL.
So the whole idea behind RPL isto recognise skills that people
already have, but getting themin to provide evidence of those
skills, and there are so manypeople out there that have
(25:50):
skills but just don't have therecognition for it.
What are your thoughts on RPL?
Lauren Hollows (25:59):
right, um.
So my thoughts on rpl are that,um, we actually shouldn't have.
Well, I'm going to be reallycontroversial.
I actually don't think weshould have rpl, I think we
should have rcc.
Um and the reason for that is isthat rcc used to be recognition
of current competency yes, um,and recognition of prior
(26:20):
learning, I think.
So there's so many, there's somuch flawed misunderstanding
that it's a process where I handover my resume and I get my
student yeah, and so I kind offeel like we should just get rid
of the whole bloody thing andgo back to rdc, which is
recognition of currentcompetency because in the vast
majority of cases that I've everseen, most students do not have
(26:45):
the evidence to actuallyproduce a sufficient RPL right.
When you look at the complexityof the units, yes, they may have
the actual skills, butproviding evidence of those
skills is a super difficultthing.
So, like when we build rpl kits.
It's an education process whereit's like okay, guys, this is
(27:07):
what rpl is, and rpl basicallysays we recognize you've
previously learned this and sotherefore, we're not going to
put you through all the trainingagain.
Right, yeah, and it's.
There's a real crossover and wegenerally tend to like lead
most students into an assessmentonly process, because what we
do is we kind of go through andwe go okay, for this particular
(27:27):
qualification, here's all theskills that you should have and
here's a whole bunch of theevidence that you would need to
have in order to be able to showthat you have the knowledge and
the skills in order to meet theunit of competency requirements
knowledge and the skills inorder to meet the unit of
(27:47):
competency requirements.
And 99.99999% of the time whenwe provide that to a student,
they turn around and go.
I can do x, y andz.
However, I don't have anyevidence of that, right, like,
I've never written any policies.
I've never.
You know, yes, I might, I haveemails and yes, I have records
of that, but you know, due toprivacy requirements, there's no
(28:07):
way my employer is going to beable to release them.
I've only worked in this jobfor a year.
All the other stuff would bewith my previous employer, which
I don't have access to.
You know, like there's all ofthese sorts of really rational
reasons.
Like even when I upheld mydiploma, I actually like I was
working with mr wed and on acouple of ones they were like,
(28:29):
well, do you have this?
I'm like, yes, I do, butthere's no way in hell I'm going
to be allowed to release thatto you.
Like none of my clients aregoing to agree to that.
I was like, just give me theassessment and I'll do the
assessment, and it'll take melike one third of the time.
So we often go through thiswith students and a lot of the
times students will turn to usand go you know, yeah, happy,
like you can come out, you canwatch me do this, but you know
(28:49):
all of the knowledge evidence,I'm not going to have anything
that I can actually provide youwith.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing.
I think rcc was actually abetter mechanism, because you're
recognizing that they arecurrently competent and you're
really just taking them throughan assessment only process which
mitigates you needing toprovide any amount of training
you know, rationale and to us,like that's what we do with rpl,
(29:12):
is we kind of go, we take themthrough a process, we look at
their experience, we make thecall yes, you've got sufficient
experience that you don't needto be trained on all of this.
Or maybe you only need to betrained on two out of you know
14 units um, for the rest of it,there's no training involved.
You're going to go directlyinto an assessment yeah, I agree
(29:33):
with the current competencies.
Angela Connell-Richards (29:34):
I remember when that was around
and um being in the trainingindustry that long, but I think
it.
Yeah, that terminology reallydoes explain much better what
that process is.
We're looking at your currentcompetencies and how your skills
align with the unit ofcompetency.
Lauren Hollows (29:54):
Yeah, yeah, I do like that there's such a stigma
as well.
Like there's such a stigmaaround.
Everyone thinks RPL is like, asI said, this process where you
just hand over a, you know, handover a resume, hand over a
third party report and you get acertificate.
We need to get that out, orthat.
Like, yeah, it just yeah, itneeds to go.
Well, I like your standpoint onthat, um.
Angela Connell-Richards (30:18):
Uh, my process is very similar.
It's looking at their currentcompetencies, so it's looking at
the evidence, um, but it isalso identifying well, if we
can't, um, if we can't find that, if you can't give us the
evidence, then we can just dothe assessment.
So it makes it much easier,which is contradictory to this,
to what we're talking aboutearlier, where people are going
(30:40):
straight into assessment andhospitality, um, and not doing
the training.
But it's very different whenyou're looking at current
competencies.
So where are you currentlywithin those schools?
Lauren Hollows (30:51):
If you've been a chef for 10 years, yeah,
absolutely cool.
I would expect you to probablybe able to go directly into
assessment.
If you've been a chef at a umyou know purely at like an asian
restaurant that only worksdinner shifts then maybe you
know when it comes to certainunits we're actually going to
have to put you through sometraining.
(31:12):
But, like you know, there's abig difference between not
providing training to a guythat's worked in the industry
for 10 years and not providingtraining to an international
student that's never steppedfoot in a kitchen yeah, yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (31:26):
Or the other one they may have worked
in a kitchen in their owncountry, but have they had to
comply with these strainrequirements and health
conditions and things like yeah,yeah exactly, yeah, like high,
you know, hygiene and that sortof yes, all of that yes, yeah,
very different, very different.
Um, okay, so what are yourthoughts on early preparation
(31:50):
for the new standards?
What, uh, where do you standwith that?
Lauren Hollows (31:56):
I imagine I stand fairly similarly to you
that if you're not preparing forthem, you're probably setting
yourself up for a pain.
And if you like, let's say,you've got your re-reg due in
like may or something like thatand you're turning around and
going, oh well, I'll be donewith my re-reg by may.
So therefore, I'm not gonna,they're not, I don't have to
have anything ready.
(32:16):
Uh, the reality is is that ifyou actually get an audit from
asquire, you've got about Idon't know like a five percent
chance of getting your re-reg bythat date, right, it's more
than likely that you are goingto blow out.
You're going to go into aperiod where your re-reg is
pending in tga um and, as we canonly audit against one
(32:40):
legislative instrument, so ifyour audit report comes out as
like if you got audited in Maybut your audit report's not
going to come out until July 1st.
That audit report's going to beagainst the new standards, it's
not going to be against the oldstandards.
So I basically said to all myclients if you've got a re-reg
or an initial registrationplanned for 2025, you need to be
(33:02):
able to show and demonstratecompliance against both sets of
standards, because we don't knowwhere you're going to fall in.
Asqa has no leeway in this.
Up to the 30th, every reporthas to be against the old
standards.
From the 1st, every report hasto be against the new standards.
They have no say, no control.
It's a legislative instrumentand you know time happens right.
Angela Connell-Richards (33:26):
Yes.
Lauren Hollows (33:26):
Blowouts happen, so you should have it against
both.
Angela Connell-Richards (33:30):
You should absolutely be prepared
for both.
And one other thing that Ithink people need to take into
consideration.
So people are thinking if wehave a change of government,
that could throw out all of thecurrent legislation that is in
draft, which is not true,because the VET reform was
actually started by the previousgovernment and the VET reform
(33:54):
is also signed by all the headsof state, so it's definitely
going ahead.
It doesn't matter whether wehave a change of government.
However, if we do have a changeof government they were not not
dewa, but asqua could just stopauditing they.
That could be interrupted.
Yeah, the change of government.
(34:15):
Yeah like.
Lauren Hollows (34:16):
I think that the biggest changes that we'll see
if we do a change of governmentis, I think and this is pretty
consistent is, I think theapproach to cryocross and
migration will pretty much do a180.
And you know, the oppositionhas made that very bloody clear
that you know this idea of likekilling an entire international
(34:38):
market and wiping billions offour bottom line is not the
smartest idea, and so they'reprobably going to do a reverse
about that.
So I think that's a good thing.
And then I think the otherthing that we will see is we
will see a move back to a morebalanced funding model between
the private and public markets.
(34:58):
And again, I think that TAFEdoes a brilliant job on certain
things.
I think there is a real needfor them in public markets and
again I think that TAFE does abrilliant job on certain things.
I think there is a real needfor them in particular markets,
but purely value for money-wise,given that in the last year,
with our fee-free TAFE, we had aless than was it 13% completion
rate, something along thoselines.
Angela Connell-Richa (35:19):
Completion rate.
Yes, that's not good value formoney, whereas private RTOs
they're up around 80% completionrate, something along those
lines.
Yes, yeah, whereas private rtosthey're up around 80 completion
rate.
Lauren Hollows (35:26):
Yeah, and I mean , look, I'm sure you're going to
have people arguing that it'sbecause private rtos are less
strenuous and they tick andflake.
The reality is is that privatertos are businesses and
therefore they cannot affordinefficiencies, and so they
structure training in a verydifferent way, because we don't
get given millions and millionsof dollars to train and not get
(35:49):
an outcome.
You know like, in the privatemarket, across the vast majority
of funding models, you are paidto get an outcome.
If you don't get that outcome,you know like, even if you even
like with WA, which is verygenerous, they give 70 upon
commencement you have 80completion benchmarks you've got
to meet in order to meet yourfunding contract requirements,
so you get paid for an outcome.
(36:11):
There needs to be a balance ofprivate and public funding in
order for us to maximize theoutcomes for the vocational
education sector.
So I think that's the biggestshift that we will see if we go
back, if we go into a Liberalgovernment and look, just based
on what I'm seeing across theworld, I'd be very surprised if
we don't swing into a Liberalgovernment in a few different
(36:34):
states and federally over thenext couple of years.
Angela Connell-Richards (36:39):
Yeah, I think what's happened with the
education sector in particularsince the impact of COVID and
then we're still feeling theafter effects and you know, and
that stupid thing that they didwith the caps, international
student caps and just yeah, justcrazy stuff.
They're really killingeducation.
In Australia, like, when youthink about pre-pandemic, we
(37:03):
were consistently internationaleducation was our first or
second biggest uh export, yeah,and now it's it's not even not
even listed because it's just,yeah, the reality is when we
export education, we exportaustralian values.
Lauren Hollows (37:20):
Yes, um, you know, it's a, it's a billion
dollar export industry, so we'rebringing money in from other
countries.
Uh, and we are absolutelyreliant on that, you know, from
a national level.
Like we, we want to beexporting australian values out
to the rest of the world.
We want to be promoting all ofthe amazing things that we do in
this country, and education isone of the.
(37:42):
Vocational education andbuilding skills is actually
something we do really well.
I'm not going to say the samething for our secondary
education system, given that wehave, you know, more than 70 of
our adults with not even basedfunctional literacy, um, but
vocational education picks upthe slack for that in a lot of
ways.
(38:02):
Like we do, we build skills wellin this country and it's
something we should be really,really proud of and it is
something we should absolutelybe exporting to the rest of the
world.
You know how to build shipssafely, how to fly planes safely
.
You know, like we have amazingresources.
Angela Connell-Richards (38:20):
How to work on a construction site
safely fighting and everythinglike that.
Lauren Hollows (38:24):
Like we have really low levels of death, we
have really low levels of, youknow, industry accidents.
You know that is because of thetraining that we put in place
and the skills and thecompetencies that we have.
We should be very, very proudof that and having whs in most
qualifications yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah yeah absolutely, yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (38:44):
So my position on this is yes,
absolutely.
We need to be prepared.
We're already seeing changes inASQA documentation for initial
and re-reg.
They're asking for differentthings now, very similar to
what's in the new standards.
So, yes, they can't audit usagainst the new standards, but
(39:06):
they're, of course, preparing aswell.
So we need to be prepared and Ithink all RTOs should have at
least reviewed the standards, tostart with the revised
standards, and then they shouldbe putting in an action plan of
how they're going to adjust tothe new standards, where where
(39:26):
I'm actually in the process ofwriting a 90-day action plan
that rtos will be able to usefor um, for reviewing their
policies, procedures anddocuments and then implementing
that uh before the first of julyand making sure that they have
everything in place.
Yeah, and I anticipate we'regoing to have about 150
(39:48):
documents different documentsthere may be some.
There's also there's some thatwe've already got rid of because
it's been a great reviewprocess actually, because I
found it's a great time toupdate everything.
And where you were saying otherlegislations change, like WHS
has changed, so we've changedour whole WHS risk assessment
(40:13):
requirements and also very muchso adding risk management into
everything.
So that's been a major changeas well.
I think anybody who's notprepared, who hasn't started
looking at their documents andyou know, maybe you don't have
an audit for another five years,you're re-reg, that's your
(40:35):
re-reg is due.
Asqa can do an audit at anygiven time If they see that one
training product on your scopeis at risk, or you receive a
complaint, or they just decidethat they're going to focus on a
quality area and you're rich,you're the name that's been
pulled out of the hat.
You never, never know whenyou're going to be audited, and
(40:57):
it's always good to be prepared.
We get people who ring us andsay ASper have just contacted us
and they're coming in for anaudit next week.
Can you help us?
No, there's not enough time.
We like there's.
We cannot fix your rto in aweek.
It's uh, you need to haveeverything in place and if
you're not ready for the firstof july, uh, you're putting
(41:19):
yourself at a major risk as yourRTO.
Okay, so let's now focus on.
What do you think are thecritical changes that RTOs need
to focus on?
Um first, what should theystart with?
Lauren Hollows (41:35):
look, I mean for me, the biggest change in the
standards is really that focusback on um student, um student
well-being, student support,like that's the number one
change um over awarenessdiversity yeah, absolutely.
But I think just more, you knowreally kind of going okay, once
(41:57):
you take a student on, you aretaking that student on, and
we've seen this very strongly inthe ESOS space of like the
importance of onboardingstudents correctly, making sure
that students progress throughtheir qualification.
We see it very much in theapprenticeship space where you
know you've got to support youknow support the learner, where
you've got to check that theworkplace has got everything
(42:18):
that they need, where you've gotto be doing regular check-ins,
all this sort of stuff.
And I think that the standardsare probably just a reflection
of bringing in a lot of thosesorts of requirements and kind
of making it so that thestandards do.
There's not really any likethere's not a lot of stuff now
that sits in ESau sports, sitsin the um state funding contract
(42:40):
requirements that's now notbroadly covered through the
actual standards themselves.
So you know, like managing theprogression of the learners I
think is going to be one forfifa.
Like, if you're afee-for-service short course rTO
, I think you're probably in fora bigger change than most
because you know it's.
(43:02):
You know, previously you mighthave had students just coming
and going, coming and going, andif you're now, you've kind of
got to actually look at it andgo okay.
So most of our students areonly with us for a couple of
weeks at a time.
You know, we have maybe twophysical encounters with the
students through that process.
What is an appropriate amountof support and well-being for
(43:26):
that process?
Okay well alternatively, if I'mproviding an online course to a
student and they're enrolledwith me for over a year and my
strategy for supporting thestudent through that process is
to send them an automated emailevery month, and that's my
support strategy and I don'tprovide any face-to-face classes
and I don't have an actualphysical person allocated to
(43:49):
that student.
Um, you know, I think that,that, like the online rtos that
operate in that space, you knowthere's a lot of rtos where,
like, you enroll in a course for12 months and then you are
charged a fee if you want toextend the course out for an
additional three months or sixmonths.
I think there's a lot ofquestions there as to like, are
(44:09):
you providing students for theirwell-being?
Is it fair to charge anextension fee for a course if
you haven't provided anyopportunities or if you haven't
provided them with anynotification about progress, if
you haven't like onboarded themcorrectly?
Like, I see a lot of these kindof online RTOs that do a great
job of like enrolling thestudent and then the conversion
(44:32):
of enrollment to actualcommencement is like 40%, and
I've always laughed at theseRtos because I'm like you've put
all your you put all your shitinto marketing and getting the
stuff done at the beginning andthen you don't actually convert
any of your students tocommencement.
Like you know, basic businessguys like you'd be, you'd be
done right, yeah, um.
(44:52):
But yeah, I see it all the timelike let's just get that 1500
payment in and then we're notgoing to worry about the student
when that point onwards.
Angela Connell-Richards (44:59):
There's also a new requirement in the
standards that you must giveaccess.
Students must have access totrainers and assessors, so that
is going to have a major impactfor all of those online.
They need to actually have itscheduled in their calendar as
part of their delivery andassessment plan.
Is how and when are thestudents going to get access to
(45:20):
their trainers and assessors?
So they need to beincorporating that into their
documents as well.
Okay, well, I think we've gonewell and truly over time now.
This has been fantastic havinga chat, and I'm looking forward
to doing this regularly with you, Lauren, because this is our
(45:40):
favourite subject.
So it's very similar to when wecatch up live in person.
We're like boom, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Lauren Hollows (45:46):
This is pretty much the same conversation that
we would have offline, as it is.
Angela Connell-Richards (45:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what our thoughts
are and what we think you shouldbe doing and, oh God, this is
what's happening now.
What are you doing?
So I'm looking forward tosharing this with you every
month for this year and havingthese conversations.
I was inspired by your podcastseries, lauren, and you had a
(46:13):
specific focus on standards, butI thought wouldn't it be nice
for people to actually drop inon our conversation and hear how
two consultants who have beenin the industry for a very long
time and see many changes inlegislation and in regulatory
bodies and and having that forme?
(46:35):
I love having the conversation,but let's record it and share
it with other people.
Lauren Hollows (46:40):
Yeah, and because a lot of like a lot of.
If you're a compliance personin a small RTO, you won't have
exposure to a lot of theseconversations and I know when I
was coming up through the regsand stuff like that.
Being able to like, listen to,like my CEO, you know, speak
with the operations manager,being able to hear those
conversations was really how,like, I developed, um, you know,
(47:03):
to have that boardunderstanding of that.
So I think the more exposurepeople can have to these sorts
of conversations, that the morethey start to think about like
their own development process.
Angela Connell-Richards (47:12):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Um, I've found that, likevivacity, I've been running now
for over 15 years and the bestquality conversations I've had
is like we go to the velconference but we don't
necessarily go for the content.
We go to meet, catch up, andit's like catching up with
family, um, who are in the sameindustry as you.
(47:34):
It's's just fantastic.
Yes, 100%, yeah, okay.
So thank you very much, Lauren,for joining me today for our
very first episode of the year,and we've got a number of links
that are in the podcast reviewas well.
Those links are for thepractice guides for aspa, as
(47:57):
well as the dewar survey that isactually due next week.
So, um, so we're going to beuploading this as soon as
possible so people can get ontouh, the uh doing the survey,
because I think you really needto be giving feedback wherever
we can, and we're doing it as ateam at for Vivacity, the whole
team's getting together andwe're going to complete the
(48:18):
survey together.
Okay, hello, and welcome everyone to
our new podcast series, the RTOSuperhero, where I've got a
special guest, lauren Hollows,who will be joining me each
month to discuss the newstandards.
So today we thought we'd startwith why you need to prepare for
the new standards now.
Now we've heard a few things onLinkedIn about you know whether
(00:32):
consultants should be rewritingdocuments for the new standards
and should they be selling them, and things like that.
And there's also been otherthings where ASQA have released
a practice guide and we've gotDWORD doing feedback surveys
wanting to know more.
So we thought this would be agreat topic to start with.
So I'll introduce Lauren andshe can give us a little
(00:56):
background about herself.
We've known each other now forover 10 years more, maybe 15.
Lauren Hollows (01:11):
Yeah, all right, go go introduce Lauren Hollows,
um.
So yeah, so my name is isLauren Hollows, lauren Bird
Hollows, um, and I'm from AnoaiaEducation Services.
Um, anoaia has been around forabout five years now and I've
been around for substantiallymore as a, you know, started out
as a trainer and an admin andthen built into compliance
quality CEO operations and nowdoing consulting.
(01:33):
We specialize in creatingreally bespoke assessment tools
and then, you know, through thatwe work very closely with
clients to do things like youknow, build courses.
We got our first courseaccredited with a client last
year and then hopefully thisyear expanding out into some
even more interesting thingsmaking an impact with industry.
Angela Connell-Richards (01:57):
So yeah , that's me.
Yes, so you were saying you'regetting involved with some
industry bodies with writingcourses yeah, writing uh courses
that.
Lauren Hollows (02:07):
So yeah, we're hoping yeah, we're hoping to be
working with some um providers,some of the actual training
package uh managers, to actuallystart updating units of
competency and bringing a reallystrong lens to that of.
You know, we build a lot ofassessment tools and so you know
when we can write, when we canhave units of competency that
(02:29):
really understand how that thentranslates to like having to
then build training andassessment, run training and
assessment around that.
I think that we'll be able toreally help contribute to the
industry.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:40):
I'm interested are they around the
new qualifications framework andwhat they're?
So you'll be working towardsthat as well.
Lauren Hollows (02:47):
Yeah, Absolutely yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:48):
Yeah, there's going to be lots of
discussions had?
Yeah, awesome, all right.
So, if you've had your head inthe sand, we have some revised
standards.
So we've got outcome standards,we've got the credential policy
and we've got the compliancerequirements.
The outcome standards is in thefinal draft and there will be
(03:14):
no further edits to that, butthe credential policy and the
outcomes standards, becausethey're still in draft and
they're still up for review.
So there's still lots ofchanges that could happen with
that, because they're still indraft and they're still up for
review.
So there's still lots ofchanges that could happen with
that, but we're still beingprepared.
One of the things that I thinkI would like to know what you
think, lauren, with thecredential standards.
Lauren Hollows (03:38):
Do you think they'll do a backflip on the
qualifications for trainers andassessors no, I think that
that's pretty well set in stone,and I think the compliance
requirements in the credentialpolicy are relatively black and
white documents, yes.
So when it comes to creatingthose into a legislative
instrument, I don't thinkthere's going to be any
challenges.
I actually think that we maypotentially see a change to the
(04:00):
outcomes, and the reason is isthat it's really hard to
translate some of those outcomesinto a legislative standard,
like to meet that legislativeformat requirement.
So, um, I really would like tosee what the actual legislative
instrument is that ends upgetting proposed, because
ultimately, that's what we'regonna have to adhere to.
(04:20):
Um, yeah, you know, and look, Imean, nothing's like.
The only thing that'sconsistent in our industry is
change.
So, you know, whenever somebody, whenever we kind of go out and
go no, this is it, this is whatwe're going with, we're good to
go, like inevitably somebodycomes out the month afterwards
and makes us look silly and thenthey're like actually, we've
changed it and we're like okay,cool, that's great um, and then
(04:44):
asker can uh do a spin on howthey're going to audit it anyway
.
So it's up to individualinterpretation still yeah, yeah,
exactly, and I mean I thinkthat the one good thing I will
say is is um, I mean you and Iboth spent a lot of time with
them at the vel conference thisyear um, they put out a lot of
presentations, so they arecertainly making every effort
(05:06):
possible to make it clear, liketo provide guidance on how you
know policies should be writtento account for that you know how
you can set yourself up in sucha way that you know your
policies can show how you'remeeting the outcome standards
and also making it, you know, aseasy as possible for the
(05:27):
auditors to actually understandhow they should.
Then you know how you'veinterpreted them and how that
then translates to evidence andcertainly that's been a really
good focus for us.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:38):
And I think it's really good how
they've done the process so thatwe've got plenty of time to
prepare.
So it's not like the standardsare in and now you've got to
reinvent everything and then ittakes that catch up time where
ASQA or the regulator isauditing against the new
standards but we're stillwriting, whereas now we've got
(05:59):
plenty of time to prepare, sorewriting all the documents and
things like that.
So I know, so we've alreadybeen discussing what we've been
doing so far.
There's been some talk onLinkedIn about how we shouldn't
be creating new documents orselling new documents at the
(06:21):
moment with the revisedstandards, because it's not
hasn't come into force yet yet.
But I think that's crazy.
Lauren Hollows (06:26):
Uh, apparently only 40 percent of rtos have
actually looked at updatingtheir documents, which yeah, and
I mean, look to be fair, likeyou've probably got 40 percent
of rtos that haven't looked atupdating their documents in the
last five years so you know likeyou know, it's one of those
(06:46):
things, um, I mean, I thinkgeneral best practice is kind of
like a quick review every year,um, but certainly this year's
review should be a little bitmore intensive for most rtos.
Um, I know, like our process hascertainly been.
We've basically gone in, we'vewe've made some pretty big
changes to like the template ofthe policy and how we're
(07:09):
communicating certain aspects ofit to uh, to the regulator in
particular.
So, and then also how we'recommunicating it to um, students
and staff.
So I think, like one of thethings that often happens with
policies and procedures is thatthey're written by compliance
people like us who have a reallygood understanding.
They then have to be translatedfor students and staff members,
(07:35):
and so, you know, we've kind ofhad, we've got new sections
where it's like this is whatthis policy looks like in
practice, and so we've explainedto trainers and we've explained
to students what this policymeans to you from like a user
experience perspective, andthat's off of feedback from
asqua.
And then we've added anothersection where we've kind of gone
(07:55):
um, here's the evidence ofpolicy and practice and so when
this policy is being implementedcorrectly.
Here's some of the documentsthat you.
You know you as an auditor canlook to to see that we're
actually doing the right thing.
So we've really kind of triedto because we've got outcome
standards that are a little bitmore vague than we might have
(08:18):
had in the past.
We really wanted to make surethat we were guiding people.
We were guiding the studentsand the staff to understand
their key points and how itaffects them, and we were then
guiding auditors on like what wethought this meant and where
they could then go to forevidence.
So it was like here's thestandard, here's the policy.
The policy says where you gofor the evidence, here's the
evidence.
(08:38):
A, b, c.
Tick the box.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:40):
We're compliant, we're doing yeah yeah
, we've also included anaccountable person, because that
comes under the vet workforceand leadership and team.
So we've got for every document, who's accountable for that
document, and also with thepolicies and procedures as well.
(09:01):
So who's accountable?
Yeah, we've done the same.
We've done a total new rewriteof the policies and procedures
as well.
So who's accountable?
Yeah, we've done the same.
We've done a total new rewriteof the policies and procedures.
After D was saying we're hopingthat everyone will rewrite and
not map.
But I haven't thrown out thebaby with the bathwater.
I've looked at our previouspolicies and procedures and then
(09:21):
incorporated that in.
And I think some of the greatthings now is the tools that we
can use using AI technology.
Our team have started using atool called Miro where you can
create simple flowcharts.
So you can.
It's AI tech, so you can go inand you can put in what your
policy is or your procedure is,and then it will create it into
(09:45):
a flow chart to make it easierfor people to understand.
So I think, um, the great thingwith uh ai tech now is we're
going to be able to make uh, ourpolicies and procedures easier
to follow yeah, yeah, and I meanthen there's like, I mean
there's obviously.
Lauren Hollows (10:01):
Then there's tools, um, like we were talking
about with dan hill, you knowwhere you can take your policy,
update it and then create thatas like a 10-minute conversation
between two people.
You know, and support studentswith that.
So there is a lot more waysthat we can integrate and I
think that particular part isreally important because to me,
(10:21):
one of the biggest changes inthe standards is about, like,
well-being, student support.
You know, contextualizing,distributed needs and things
like that.
So so many of the learnerswithin the vet space are, you
know, most of them come in at,you know, um, aqf levels and
(10:43):
literacy levels of either basicor functional literacy.
I was doing a podcast about thisthe other day and like,
literally, you've got 44% thatonly have basic literacy rates.
When we look at adults acrossAustralia, you've got 38% that
only have functional literacyrates.
And yet those of us that workin VET, that write materials in
VET, particularly those of usthat work in complianceET that
(11:04):
write materials in VET,particularly those of us that
work in compliance, we'resitting in the top 15%.
Sometimes it can be quite hardfor us to kind of go.
Okay, here's us with ouracademic brains, simple terms.
But when we translate this sothat a student with basic
literacy understands it, how canwe do that?
Because if you've got a policythat you've got to communicate
to a student, but the studentreads it and has absolutely no
(11:27):
idea what it means, then it'suseless.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, and if we can do it in a
simple process where it's justlike step by step, this is what
you need to do.
So, for example, how to submita complaint and or appeal, or if
they want to do an opportunityfor improvement or provide any
feedback which is what we'reseeing in a lot of the documents
(11:49):
is getting that continuousfeedback.
The other thing that we're nowadding to a lot of our documents
now is to comply with the riskmanagement requirements, and the
continuous improvement is we'renow putting risk management in
a lot of our documents, such asWHS, opportunities for
(12:15):
improvement, complaints andappeals, so we're putting it in
those, but we're also creatingnew ones that has a risk level
in it, so you're doing somethingsimilar.
Lauren Hollows (12:25):
Yeah, we've really focused more in and
around like the validation andthe feedback processes for
different courses and units ofcompetency.
So we've got like a wholeprocess for how we actually risk
rate every course that an RTOdelivers, like based on you know
how many of the ASC or riskpriority areas does it hit how?
(12:47):
How much delivery do we do ofit?
Um, is it all online delivery?
Is it a vulnerable cohort?
Um, and all of those sorts offactors go into it and then,
based on that, it's going tocome up with like that force is
going to have a risk rating ofeither like high risk, low risk,
and then that feeds into ourvalidation frequency of it, like
so if we're dealing with wherewe're doing, like, literally,
(13:10):
you know we're doing, thethousands of students.
It's international students,it's a cohort that's highly
vulnerable.
Um, you know it's on asper's,you know kind of risk radar.
Then that's going to requirehigher levels of validation,
more frequent validation.
Then you know, perhaps, course,that we run 20 people through a
(13:31):
year.
That's a workplace, it's anapprenticeship, you know it's.
You know like you could do.
You know, take surgery,commercial cookery, for example.
You could have one cohortthat's 10 students.
That's doing it.
You know, um, over through anapprenticeship.
You know they get a visit everymonth from their, you know, from
their trainer and assessor.
You've got another one whereyou've got 3 000 international
(13:54):
students running through as a,as you know, running through as
a cohort.
They're all from one, like onecontinent or one country.
Um, yeah, totally differentrisk ratings that are going to
be present.
You know, for those things,different validation
requirements, different.
You know mechanisms that weneed to put in and around that.
So we've really brought riskratings.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:16):
And are you doing that in?
Lauren Hollows (14:16):
a spreadsheet, yeah yeah.
So we've kind of got like acalculator that we've set up for
it.
And so when we do our TASreviews, the TAS, you know,
based on the TAS, we take a lookat the risk rating, we set the
risk rating and then that goesinto our validation process.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't like to be
honest.
Lauren Hollows (14:35):
I don't like the ask for risk calculator.
I just think that's far toosimple of a mechanism and it's
just not really.
No, I love it.
So we use a separate system.
Angela Connell-Richards (14:47):
Yeah, how you've broken that down,
that is perfect.
We're doing risk rating basedon overall operations and
compliance with the standards,but I love that idea for courses
as well.
So, yeah, really drilling in.
So how are you incorporating,then, support services?
Does it identify, uh, differenttypes of support services that
(15:10):
you would then require?
Lauren Hollows (15:12):
yeah, so we look at it from a cohort perspective
and then the support serviceswould then be like more attached
to like our um, like the, thesupport and access and equity
policies and things like that.
So we've got, I think, allright, like we've got access and
equity, bullying and harassmentand uh and student support, now
all kind of that we've had tobuild out for all of them, and
(15:36):
that's also been in context ofum.
You know some of theexperiences that we've had with
our rtos this year, reallylooking at how some of the new
hr legislation is playing in um,taking a look at how you know
some of the new safetylegislation is being impacted as
well.
I think hr just seems to be oneof those areas where, um, the
(15:58):
vast majority of rtos reallydon't have a lot of like
experience, like the amount oftimes I'll go in there and
they'll be like, do you havelike a contract for a trainer?
And I'm like, yeah, but likeyou know, are they permanent,
are they part-time, are theycontract, are they?
you know, like what's their?
Qualification Like there's somuch that goes into it with the
(16:20):
way that our instrument is built.
Yeah, much that goes into itwith the with the way that our
instrument is built, um, yeah Ithink hr is definitely one of
the areas that particularlyfocus on that workforce now yeah
, yeah, yeah, which willdefinitely come into more play,
like you know, the fact that wecan't, you know everyone was
focused on do we get trainer pd?
(16:40):
Okay, great, now it's.
There's that whole system youknow what are your?
what pd are your admin getting,which is great, because admin
don't get anywhere near enoughpd, and I know you know this.
Yes, like they do things andthey don't know what they're
doing.
And then we go in and reviewthe data and it's like you guys
have got all of these unitsstarting and finishing on the
(17:03):
same day and they're like, oh,because that's when they came in
to do their one day course.
And we're like, yeah, but yougave them their materials three
weeks before the finalassessment was signed off, two
weeks after that, when thestudent actually submitted it
through your online system.
But you've said it's all donein one day, but it's actually
done over like five weeks youknow massive this is what you're
(17:25):
communicating to the regulator,it's so different.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:28):
I've gone into training organisations
where the admin staff inparticular knew nothing about
the legislation, knew nothingabout what was compliance and
what they needed to have inplace.
I've also met many trainers whodon't understand it either.
So I think it's fantastic thatwe now have Vet PD for everyone,
(17:51):
because they then canunderstand the risks and
understand what they need tohave in place.
And everyone is like.
I've always.
Always said we should have aculture of continuous
improvement throughout the rto,and it shouldn't just be one
person, it should be.
Everyone is part of thatculture.
Lauren Hollows (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, definitely well, ultimately,
we're dealing with trainingorganizations, and if you can't
train your own staff on your ownpolicies and procedures, I find
it really funny that you'reselling services on how to train
other people's staff on knowingtheir policies and procedures,
but you can't do it yourself,like okay cool, yeah, and what
are your thoughts on?
Angela Connell-Richards (18:34):
so what I noticed in the practice
guides is so ASQA's releasedpractice guides now, so if you
haven't heard about this yet,the practice guides are on the
ASQA website.
So far they've released underQuality Area 1, training and
Assessment, and Quality Area 4,governance.
(18:56):
They've got Leadership andAccountability and Risk
Management.
They're still developing guidesfor student support and vet
workforce, so I just thought I'dadd that in there, but they've
included now work integratedlearning, so we've got another
acronym will.
I thought it was fantastic.
(19:18):
I delivered a webinar on thisyesterday and the importance.
So what has been identified inas part of the VET reform, as
well as the new standards, isthere's not enough time for the
students to apply the skills ina real simulated or work
integrated learning environment,and I see that there's a lot
(19:42):
more focus now on workintegrated learning, which I
think is also going to be reallycritical for when you're
writing your training materialsas well yeah, I mean, look, it's
interesting.
Lauren Hollows (19:56):
I was talking to somebody this morning and you
know, she turned around.
She, well, it's prettystraightforward Basically, you
can't assess somebody onsomething that you haven't
trained them.
And I went that's actually, youknow, that's a really beautiful
, simple way of explaining it.
Yeah, but like, certainly thereare definitely some areas, and
(20:19):
I mean I'm just going to say it,this is why Pricos is such a
risk area, because we have, youknow, so often I've seen places
whereby the first time that astudent is cooking a dish is the
time they're being assessed onit, and it's like they've never
made this dish before and nowyou're assessing them on it and
you're assuming that, like thatthe assessment process is the
(20:41):
training process, but like,legitimately, we've never.
Like you're, you're taking astudent that's not working in
industry, that hasn't worked inindustry, and the first time
people are asking them to make asouffle is the time that you're
assessing them on like that's.
That's a big, big, bloody ask.
Yeah, but it does happen a lot,particularly where, like,
(21:06):
there's a high cost toundertaking that assessment,
right?
So you know, like, let's lookat the seafood unit in
commercial cookery, that unit,you know you're looking at a
roundabout.
You're looking at a couple ofhundred dollars a student.
You know you're looking at aroundabout, you're looking at a
couple of hundred dollars astudent.
You know, in physical resources, in fish, in, you know, in
(21:28):
crustaceans in green frogs.
You know like you've got to haveabout six different types of
fish.
You've got a whole, got a wholebank of fish.
So you know there's a hugeexpense to it.
You know we've got hairdressingwhere we've got to do.
You know we've got to useneutralizers we've got to use,
you know, colors um, you've gotpainting where you know you've
(21:49):
got to.
You know you've got to do paintand blast or you've got to.
You know you've got to stripproducts and things like that.
So I think that, particularlywhere we've got really high cost
units to deliver, um, you know,anytime you're're doing like
diggers or anything like that,you know you're up for $100 an
hour.
So I can understand the RTOsgoing.
(22:10):
Well, you know, if I train thestudents on it for eight hours
and then I've got to observethem on it for a further four
hours, I'm looking at $1,200 forthat.
One student in that cost, right?
Yep, okay, nuts, screw that.
They're going to have two hourson the machine to train.
Angela Connell-Richards (22:29):
They're going to have two hours on the
machine to assess, because thatonly costs us $400, right yeah,
whereas if they did work,integrated learning, where they
did a work placement, andthey're able to apply the skills
in the workplace, where they'reselling the dishes, yeah, yeah.
Lauren Hollows (22:46):
Shoot a massively different scenario,
but so many, like so often, andI think this is why, like ASCO,
over the years, have beenpushing RTOs to go when's the
training happening and when'sthe assessment happening?
Because, I know you've got theunit structure there for two
days or for four days, but howmuch of that is in a classroom,
how much of that is in apractical environment?
(23:08):
And in that practicalenvironment how much is training
and how much is assessment?
Angela Connell-Richards (23:13):
Yeah, and how many times are they
applying the skills?
On a number of occasions, yeah.
Lauren Hollows (23:18):
And very few like quite and this is the sad
part is that a lot of RTOsreally do struggle to explain
how that breaks down and that'sprobably the area like when
we're working on a TAS that'sthe hardest area to work with.
Rtos on is like, yeah, but dude, when are they in the classroom
, when are they in the practical?
(23:38):
Okay, and how much of thatpractical time is this and how
much is this?
And yeah, there's just so manyrtos admins, trainers that
really struggle to explain whatis what you know, yeah, yeah and
trainers.
Well, trainers will.
Trainers will turn around to anask for order and they'll be
like, yep, we do this.
Then we go into the kitchen andwe make, we make this, and we
(23:59):
make this and we make this andyou know, ask with those great,
okay, so how many times do theymake that dish?
And they go.
Well, they make the dish once.
Okay, cool, thanks, that'sgreat.
And they don't say anythingelse not because from that one
statement, you've just turnedaround and gone.
We don't train, we only assessyeah, and trainers have got no
idea.
(24:20):
And then it comes into the orderreport and you go what?
Angela Connell-Richards (24:23):
Yeah, you know it's great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,all right.
So we've talked a lot abouttraining and assessment, and so
there hasn't what I could see inthe practice guides.
There hasn't been a lot ofchanges.
There's more focus onassessment validation, which
sort of what we wereexperiencing last year is they
(24:46):
weren't even looking at thelegislation for assessment
validation unless yourassessment tools were
non-compliant, whereas nowthey're going back to.
You've got to have a validationschedule, you've got to have
risk management as part of thatwithin the validation.
They've still focused on therules of evidence and principles
(25:07):
.
Assessment Work.
Integrated learning is the onlything that I've seen.
That is really different.
There is a big focus on RPL.
I'm surprised at how manypeople actually don't understand
how to conduct an RPLassessment, actually don't
understand how to conduct an RPLassessment.
(25:28):
And do I need to have an RPLkit if I'm delivering only
single units and I'm like yes,the legislation says that you
must offer RPL.
So the whole idea behind RPL isto recognise skills that people
already have, but getting themin to provide evidence of those
skills, and there are so manypeople out there that have
(25:50):
skills but just don't have therecognition for it.
What are your thoughts on RPL?
Lauren Hollows (25:59):
right, um.
So my thoughts on rpl are that,um, we actually shouldn't have.
Well, I'm going to be reallycontroversial.
I actually don't think weshould have rpl, I think we
should have rcc.
Um and the reason for that is isthat rcc used to be recognition
of current competency yes, um,and recognition of prior
(26:20):
learning, I think.
So there's so many, there's somuch flawed misunderstanding
that it's a process where I handover my resume and I get my
student yeah, and so I kind offeel like we should just get rid
of the whole bloody thing andgo back to rdc, which is
recognition of currentcompetency because in the vast
majority of cases that I've everseen, most students do not have
(26:45):
the evidence to actuallyproduce a sufficient RPL right.
When you look at the complexityof the units, yes, they may have
the actual skills, butproviding evidence of those
skills is a super difficultthing.
So, like when we build rpl kits.
It's an education process whereit's like okay, guys, this is
(27:07):
what rpl is, and rpl basicallysays we recognize you've
previously learned this and sotherefore, we're not going to
put you through all the trainingagain.
Right, yeah, and it's.
There's a real crossover and wegenerally tend to like lead
most students into an assessmentonly process, because what we
do is we kind of go through andwe go okay, for this particular
(27:27):
qualification, here's all theskills that you should have and
here's a whole bunch of theevidence that you would need to
have in order to be able to showthat you have the knowledge and
the skills in order to meet theunit of competency requirements
knowledge and the skills inorder to meet the unit of
(27:47):
competency requirements.
And 99.99999% of the time whenwe provide that to a student,
they turn around and go.
I can do x, y andz.
However, I don't have anyevidence of that, right, like,
I've never written any policies.
I've never.
You know, yes, I might, I haveemails and yes, I have records
of that, but you know, due toprivacy requirements, there's no
(28:07):
way my employer is going to beable to release them.
I've only worked in this jobfor a year.
All the other stuff would bewith my previous employer, which
I don't have access to.
You know, like there's all ofthese sorts of really rational
reasons.
Like even when I upheld mydiploma, I actually like I was
working with mr wed and on acouple of ones they were like,
(28:29):
well, do you have this?
I'm like, yes, I do, butthere's no way in hell I'm going
to be allowed to release thatto you.
Like none of my clients aregoing to agree to that.
I was like, just give me theassessment and I'll do the
assessment, and it'll take melike one third of the time.
So we often go through thiswith students and a lot of the
times students will turn to usand go you know, yeah, happy,
like you can come out, you canwatch me do this, but you know
(28:49):
all of the knowledge evidence,I'm not going to have anything
that I can actually provide youwith.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing.
I think rcc was actually abetter mechanism, because you're
recognizing that they arecurrently competent and you're
really just taking them throughan assessment only process which
mitigates you needing toprovide any amount of training
you know, rationale and to us,like that's what we do with rpl,
(29:12):
is we kind of go, we take themthrough a process, we look at
their experience, we make thecall yes, you've got sufficient
experience that you don't needto be trained on all of this.
Or maybe you only need to betrained on two out of you know
14 units um, for the rest of it,there's no training involved.
You're going to go directlyinto an assessment yeah, I agree
(29:33):
with the current competencies.
Angela Connell-Richards (29:34):
I remember when that was around
and um being in the trainingindustry that long, but I think
it.
Yeah, that terminology reallydoes explain much better what
that process is.
We're looking at your currentcompetencies and how your skills
align with the unit ofcompetency.
Lauren Hollows (29:54):
Yeah, yeah, I do like that there's such a stigma
as well.
Like there's such a stigmaaround.
Everyone thinks RPL is like, asI said, this process where you
just hand over a, you know, handover a resume, hand over a
third party report and you get acertificate.
We need to get that out, orthat.
Like, yeah, it just yeah, itneeds to go.
Well, I like your standpoint onthat, um.
Angela Connell-Richards (30:18):
Uh, my process is very similar.
It's looking at their currentcompetencies, so it's looking at
the evidence, um, but it isalso identifying well, if we
can't, um, if we can't find that, if you can't give us the
evidence, then we can just dothe assessment.
So it makes it much easier,which is contradictory to this,
to what we're talking aboutearlier, where people are going
(30:40):
straight into assessment andhospitality, um, and not doing
the training.
But it's very different whenyou're looking at current
competencies.
So where are you currentlywithin those schools?
Lauren Hollows (30:51):
If you've been a chef for 10 years, yeah,
absolutely cool.
I would expect you to probablybe able to go directly into
assessment.
If you've been a chef at a umyou know purely at like an asian
restaurant that only worksdinner shifts then maybe you
know when it comes to certainunits we're actually going to
have to put you through sometraining.
(31:12):
But, like you know, there's abig difference between not
providing training to a guythat's worked in the industry
for 10 years and not providingtraining to an international
student that's never steppedfoot in a kitchen yeah, yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (31:26):
Or the other one they may have worked
in a kitchen in their owncountry, but have they had to
comply with these strainrequirements and health
conditions and things like yeah,yeah exactly, yeah, like high,
you know, hygiene and that sortof yes, all of that yes, yeah,
very different, very different.
Um, okay, so what are yourthoughts on early preparation
(31:50):
for the new standards?
What, uh, where do you standwith that?
Lauren Hollows (31:56):
I imagine I stand fairly similarly to you
that if you're not preparing forthem, you're probably setting
yourself up for a pain.
And if you like, let's say,you've got your re-reg due in
like may or something like thatand you're turning around and
going, oh well, I'll be donewith my re-reg by may.
So therefore, I'm not gonna,they're not, I don't have to
have anything ready.
(32:16):
Uh, the reality is is that ifyou actually get an audit from
asquire, you've got about Idon't know like a five percent
chance of getting your re-reg bythat date, right, it's more
than likely that you are goingto blow out.
You're going to go into aperiod where your re-reg is
pending in tga um and, as we canonly audit against one
(32:40):
legislative instrument, so ifyour audit report comes out as
like if you got audited in Maybut your audit report's not
going to come out until July 1st.
That audit report's going to beagainst the new standards, it's
not going to be against the oldstandards.
So I basically said to all myclients if you've got a re-reg
or an initial registrationplanned for 2025, you need to be
(33:02):
able to show and demonstratecompliance against both sets of
standards, because we don't knowwhere you're going to fall in.
Asqa has no leeway in this.
Up to the 30th, every reporthas to be against the old
standards.
From the 1st, every report hasto be against the new standards.
They have no say, no control.
It's a legislative instrumentand you know time happens right.
Angela Connell-Richards (33:26):
Yes.
Lauren Hollows (33:26):
Blowouts happen, so you should have it against
both.
Angela Connell-Richards (33:30):
You should absolutely be prepared
for both.
And one other thing that Ithink people need to take into
consideration.
So people are thinking if wehave a change of government,
that could throw out all of thecurrent legislation that is in
draft, which is not true,because the VET reform was
actually started by the previousgovernment and the VET reform
(33:54):
is also signed by all the headsof state, so it's definitely
going ahead.
It doesn't matter whether wehave a change of government.
However, if we do have a changeof government they were not not
dewa, but asqua could just stopauditing they.
That could be interrupted.
Yeah, the change of government.
(34:15):
Yeah like.
Lauren Hollows (34:16):
I think that the biggest changes that we'll see
if we do a change of governmentis, I think and this is pretty
consistent is, I think theapproach to cryocross and
migration will pretty much do a180.
And you know, the oppositionhas made that very bloody clear
that you know this idea of likekilling an entire international
(34:38):
market and wiping billions offour bottom line is not the
smartest idea, and so they'reprobably going to do a reverse
about that.
So I think that's a good thing.
And then I think the otherthing that we will see is we
will see a move back to a morebalanced funding model between
the private and public markets.
(34:58):
And again, I think that TAFEdoes a brilliant job on certain
things.
I think there is a real needfor them in public markets and
again I think that TAFE does abrilliant job on certain things.
I think there is a real needfor them in particular markets,
but purely value for money-wise,given that in the last year,
with our fee-free TAFE, we had aless than was it 13% completion
rate, something along thoselines.
Angela Connell-Richa (35:19):
Completion rate.
Yes, that's not good value formoney, whereas private RTOs
they're up around 80% completionrate, something along those
lines.
Yes, yeah, whereas private rtosthey're up around 80 completion
rate.
Lauren Hollows (35:26):
Yeah, and I mean , look, I'm sure you're going to
have people arguing that it'sbecause private rtos are less
strenuous and they tick andflake.
The reality is is that privatertos are businesses and
therefore they cannot affordinefficiencies, and so they
structure training in a verydifferent way, because we don't
get given millions and millionsof dollars to train and not get
(35:49):
an outcome.
You know like, in the privatemarket, across the vast majority
of funding models, you are paidto get an outcome.
If you don't get that outcome,you know like, even if you even
like with WA, which is verygenerous, they give 70 upon
commencement you have 80completion benchmarks you've got
to meet in order to meet yourfunding contract requirements,
so you get paid for an outcome.
(36:11):
There needs to be a balance ofprivate and public funding in
order for us to maximize theoutcomes for the vocational
education sector.
So I think that's the biggestshift that we will see if we go
back, if we go into a Liberalgovernment and look, just based
on what I'm seeing across theworld, I'd be very surprised if
we don't swing into a Liberalgovernment in a few different
(36:34):
states and federally over thenext couple of years.
Angela Connell-Richards (36:39):
Yeah, I think what's happened with the
education sector in particularsince the impact of COVID and
then we're still feeling theafter effects and you know, and
that stupid thing that they didwith the caps, international
student caps and just yeah, justcrazy stuff.
They're really killingeducation.
In Australia, like, when youthink about pre-pandemic, we
(37:03):
were consistently internationaleducation was our first or
second biggest uh export, yeah,and now it's it's not even not
even listed because it's just,yeah, the reality is when we
export education, we exportaustralian values.
Lauren Hollows (37:20):
Yes, um, you know, it's a, it's a billion
dollar export industry, so we'rebringing money in from other
countries.
Uh, and we are absolutelyreliant on that, you know, from
a national level.
Like we, we want to beexporting australian values out
to the rest of the world.
We want to be promoting all ofthe amazing things that we do in
this country, and education isone of the.
(37:42):
Vocational education andbuilding skills is actually
something we do really well.
I'm not going to say the samething for our secondary
education system, given that wehave, you know, more than 70 of
our adults with not even basedfunctional literacy, um, but
vocational education picks upthe slack for that in a lot of
ways.
(38:02):
Like we do, we build skills wellin this country and it's
something we should be really,really proud of and it is
something we should absolutelybe exporting to the rest of the
world.
You know how to build shipssafely, how to fly planes safely
.
You know, like we have amazingresources.
Angela Connell-Richards (38:20):
How to work on a construction site
safely fighting and everythinglike that.
Lauren Hollows (38:24):
Like we have really low levels of death, we
have really low levels of, youknow, industry accidents.
You know that is because of thetraining that we put in place
and the skills and thecompetencies that we have.
We should be very, very proudof that and having whs in most
qualifications yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah yeah absolutely, yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (38:44):
So my position on this is yes,
absolutely.
We need to be prepared.
We're already seeing changes inASQA documentation for initial
and re-reg.
They're asking for differentthings now, very similar to
what's in the new standards.
So, yes, they can't audit usagainst the new standards, but
(39:06):
they're, of course, preparing aswell.
So we need to be prepared and Ithink all RTOs should have at
least reviewed the standards, tostart with the revised
standards, and then they shouldbe putting in an action plan of
how they're going to adjust tothe new standards, where where
(39:26):
I'm actually in the process ofwriting a 90-day action plan
that rtos will be able to usefor um, for reviewing their
policies, procedures anddocuments and then implementing
that uh before the first of julyand making sure that they have
everything in place.
Yeah, and I anticipate we'regoing to have about 150
(39:48):
documents different documentsthere may be some.
There's also there's some thatwe've already got rid of because
it's been a great reviewprocess actually, because I
found it's a great time toupdate everything.
And where you were saying otherlegislations change, like WHS
has changed, so we've changedour whole WHS risk assessment
(40:13):
requirements and also very muchso adding risk management into
everything.
So that's been a major changeas well.
I think anybody who's notprepared, who hasn't started
looking at their documents andyou know, maybe you don't have
an audit for another five years,you're re-reg, that's your
(40:35):
re-reg is due.
Asqa can do an audit at anygiven time If they see that one
training product on your scopeis at risk, or you receive a
complaint, or they just decidethat they're going to focus on a
quality area and you're rich,you're the name that's been
pulled out of the hat.
You never, never know whenyou're going to be audited, and
(40:57):
it's always good to be prepared.
We get people who ring us andsay ASper have just contacted us
and they're coming in for anaudit next week.
Can you help us?
No, there's not enough time.
We like there's.
We cannot fix your rto in aweek.
It's uh, you need to haveeverything in place and if
you're not ready for the firstof july, uh, you're putting
(41:19):
yourself at a major risk as yourRTO.
Okay, so let's now focus on.
What do you think are thecritical changes that RTOs need
to focus on?
Um first, what should theystart with?
Lauren Hollows (41:35):
look, I mean for me, the biggest change in the
standards is really that focusback on um student, um student
well-being, student support,like that's the number one
change um over awarenessdiversity yeah, absolutely.
But I think just more, you knowreally kind of going okay, once
(41:57):
you take a student on, you aretaking that student on, and
we've seen this very strongly inthe ESOS space of like the
importance of onboardingstudents correctly, making sure
that students progress throughtheir qualification.
We see it very much in theapprenticeship space where you
know you've got to support youknow support the learner, where
you've got to check that theworkplace has got everything
(42:18):
that they need, where you've gotto be doing regular check-ins,
all this sort of stuff.
And I think that the standardsare probably just a reflection
of bringing in a lot of thosesorts of requirements and kind
of making it so that thestandards do.
There's not really any likethere's not a lot of stuff now
that sits in ESau sports, sitsin the um state funding contract
(42:40):
requirements that's now notbroadly covered through the
actual standards themselves.
So you know, like managing theprogression of the learners I
think is going to be one forfifa.
Like, if you're afee-for-service short course rTO
, I think you're probably in fora bigger change than most
because you know it's.
(43:02):
You know, previously you mighthave had students just coming
and going, coming and going, andif you're now, you've kind of
got to actually look at it andgo okay.
So most of our students areonly with us for a couple of
weeks at a time.
You know, we have maybe twophysical encounters with the
students through that process.
What is an appropriate amountof support and well-being for
(43:26):
that process?
Okay well alternatively, if I'mproviding an online course to a
student and they're enrolledwith me for over a year and my
strategy for supporting thestudent through that process is
to send them an automated emailevery month, and that's my
support strategy and I don'tprovide any face-to-face classes
and I don't have an actualphysical person allocated to
(43:49):
that student.
Um, you know, I think that,that, like the online rtos that
operate in that space, you knowthere's a lot of rtos where,
like, you enroll in a course for12 months and then you are
charged a fee if you want toextend the course out for an
additional three months or sixmonths.
I think there's a lot ofquestions there as to like, are
(44:09):
you providing students for theirwell-being?
Is it fair to charge anextension fee for a course if
you haven't provided anyopportunities or if you haven't
provided them with anynotification about progress, if
you haven't like onboarded themcorrectly?
Like, I see a lot of these kindof online RTOs that do a great
job of like enrolling thestudent and then the conversion
(44:32):
of enrollment to actualcommencement is like 40%, and
I've always laughed at theseRtos because I'm like you've put
all your you put all your shitinto marketing and getting the
stuff done at the beginning andthen you don't actually convert
any of your students tocommencement.
Like you know, basic businessguys like you'd be, you'd be
done right, yeah, um.
(44:52):
But yeah, I see it all the timelike let's just get that 1500
payment in and then we're notgoing to worry about the student
when that point onwards.
Angela Connell-Richards (44:59):
There's also a new requirement in the
standards that you must giveaccess.
Students must have access totrainers and assessors, so that
is going to have a major impactfor all of those online.
They need to actually have itscheduled in their calendar as
part of their delivery andassessment plan.
Is how and when are thestudents going to get access to
(45:20):
their trainers and assessors?
So they need to beincorporating that into their
documents as well.
Okay, well, I think we've gonewell and truly over time now.
This has been fantastic havinga chat, and I'm looking forward
to doing this regularly with you, Lauren, because this is our
(45:40):
favourite subject.
So it's very similar to when wecatch up live in person.
We're like boom, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Lauren Hollows (45:46):
This is pretty much the same conversation that
we would have offline, as it is.
Angela Connell-Richards (45:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what our thoughts
are and what we think you shouldbe doing and, oh God, this is
what's happening now.
What are you doing?
So I'm looking forward tosharing this with you every
month for this year and havingthese conversations.
I was inspired by your podcastseries, lauren, and you had a
(46:13):
specific focus on standards, butI thought wouldn't it be nice
for people to actually drop inon our conversation and hear how
two consultants who have beenin the industry for a very long
time and see many changes inlegislation and in regulatory
bodies and and having that forme?
(46:35):
I love having the conversation,but let's record it and share
it with other people.
Lauren Hollows (46:40):
Yeah, and because a lot of like a lot of.
If you're a compliance personin a small RTO, you won't have
exposure to a lot of theseconversations and I know when I
was coming up through the regsand stuff like that.
Being able to like, listen to,like my CEO, you know, speak
with the operations manager,being able to hear those
conversations was really how,like, I developed, um, you know,
(47:03):
to have that boardunderstanding of that.
So I think the more exposurepeople can have to these sorts
of conversations, that the morethey start to think about like
their own development process.
Angela Connell-Richards (47:12):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Um, I've found that, likevivacity, I've been running now
for over 15 years and the bestquality conversations I've had
is like we go to the velconference but we don't
necessarily go for the content.
We go to meet, catch up, andit's like catching up with
family, um, who are in the sameindustry as you.
(47:34):
It's's just fantastic.
Yes, 100%, yeah, okay.
So thank you very much, Lauren,for joining me today for our
very first episode of the year,and we've got a number of links
that are in the podcast reviewas well.
Those links are for thepractice guides for aspa, as
(47:57):
well as the dewar survey that isactually due next week.
So, um, so we're going to beuploading this as soon as
possible so people can get ontouh, the uh doing the survey,
because I think you really needto be giving feedback wherever
we can, and we're doing it as ateam at for Vivacity, the whole
team's getting together andwe're going to complete the
(48:18):
survey together.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.