April 15, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of the RTO Superhero Podcast, Angela Connell-Richards and Lauren Hollows explore the essential elements of structured and engaging training that meets compliance under Standards 1.1 & 1.2. They break down how to design well-paced training programs, avoid the pitfalls of condensed courses, and ensure students remain engaged throughout their learning journey.
🎙️ Key discussion points include:
✅ The importance of structured and paced training – How to align with compliance requirements while maintaining student engagement.
✅ The risks of condensed courses – Understanding why rushing training delivery can lead to poor outcomes and non-compliance.
✅ Engaging students effectively – Strategies to keep learners motivated and involved throughout their training.
✅ Balancing compliance with industry needs – How to structure training that is both practical and compliant.
✅ Common mistakes in training delivery – Avoiding pitfalls that could put your RTO at risk.
Angela and Lauren provide practical strategies, compliance insights, and real-world examples to help RTOs deliver training that drives student success while meeting regulatory standards.
Join host Angela Connell-Richards as she opens each episode with a burst of insight and inspiration. Discover why compliance is your launchpad to success, not a limitation.
Connect with fellow RTO professionals in our free Facebook groups: the RTO Community and RTO Job Board. Visit rtosuperhero.au/groups to join today.
Wrap up with gratitude and guidance. Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community as we continue supporting your compliance journey in vocational education.
Thank you for tuning in to the RTO Superhero Podcast!
We’re excited to have you join us as we focus on the Revised Standards for RTOs in 2025. Together, we’ll explore key changes, compliance strategies, and actionable insights to help your RTO thrive under the new standards.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to the RTO Superhero Podcast.
In our last episode, we coveredthe big picture changes in the
new standards.
Today we're going deeper howthe standards are going to
impact trainers, assessors andthe day-to-day operations of
RTOs.
Lauren is back with me tounpack trainers and RTO leaders
(00:21):
and what they need to do rightnow to ensure compliance.
Lauren, great to have you onagain.
I'm fresh, happy.
It's always awesome.
Okay, so let's dive in.
We're really going to belooking at the trainer and
assessor credentialing andwhat's new.
So, from what you've seen andreviewed, what are one of the
(00:44):
biggest areas of concern forRTOs when ensuring their
trainers and assessors meet thecompliance requirements?
What's changed in thecredential policy that you've
seen?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Look, I mean I feel like there's been a huge amount
of conversation in and aroundthis particular topic and in and
around the credential policyfor quite a long time now.
I mean, certainly this came out.
We had versions of it releasedin.
Actually, in March of 2024 waswhen the first you know kind of
(01:22):
version major announcement sortof came into play, and then
we've had the other version.
That's been a few days ago, Ithink one of the areas that I do
find interesting is how they'restarting to review training.
So certainly I know that, like Iwork with a lot of
(01:45):
organizations whereby we getindustry people to come in and
deliver training and things likethat, um, so we've got training
and assessment credentials andthen we've got assessment only
credentials.
Um, I know that there wasquestions about training um that
had been raised, you know, know, through the consultation
process.
(02:05):
I don't really know whether ornot that's been addressed
sufficiently within thecredential policy and within the
standards as well.
I think the idea of thetraining and assessment under
direction is a good concept andthe reason why I say that is
(02:29):
that I've got a lot of RTOs that, due to the trainer shortage,
have had to bring inindustry-qualified people,
partner them up with a trainer,and we've basically, like you
know, I think, over the lastprobably three years I probably
had worked with RTOs to, to youknow, put them out to people and
we probably put 20 or 30trainers through the tae in
(02:49):
order so that we could, you know, have trainers available in our
industry because there wasn't apool of suitably qualified
people.
Um, so, you know, I think theidea that, like you, you've got
you know the volunteer trainerdelivery skill set, or you know
somebody who already holds thefacilitation skill set coming in
(03:12):
to learn that assessment sideof things.
I think it was necessary.
We don't have the people in ourindustry.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
We've just had too much of a shortage.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I think the only areathat it really doesn't provide
for is is, like um and I knowthat I've got this question a
few times.
It's like, okay, well, if I'vegot somebody coming in, like
from industry who's going todeliver training for a couple of
days, uh, they're not going tobe overseeing the assessment,
they're just going to bedelivering.
Do they need to have thefacilitation skill set?
(03:45):
Do they need to have thedelivery volunteer trainer
delivery skill set?
You know, um, and I don't knowwhether or not that's been
clearly enough covered under thestandards and I don't know how
the regulator is going to intendto like approach that to our
component.
I know it's something that we'vestruggled with with um funded
training before, where, like we,we're getting industry, we're
(04:05):
getting like, the best people inindustry to come in and deliver
the training and you know, afunding department has gone,
yeah, but they don't have theirTAE, so we don't, we're not
going to pay you for thatparticular component, right,
yeah, yeah, great.
Like you know, you've gotindustry best practice happening
and because, because of youknow the fact that there's not a
(04:28):
tae there, we're not going torecognize it like, wow, that
that sucks, you know yeah, yeah,yeah and um, we've touched on
this before.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
What are your thoughts on the uh removing the
requirement to upgrade your tae?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
yeah, yeah, again like I mean.
I understand people'sreservations and their concerns
and the thoughts that we'requote unquote watering down
industry.
We are in a trainer shortage.
We don't have enough trainers,particularly in areas like
nursing, in areas like aged care, in all of the traits.
(05:03):
We don't have enoughelectrician trainers to put
electricians out there.
We don't have enough buildertrainers out there.
To you know, bring buildersinto our industry to actually
address the housing crisis thatwe've got in australia.
Yeah, so yeah, it can't be likewe have.
It's always going to be a bitof a give and take situation.
(05:25):
This is something that had tobe done.
If they only have the TAE-10,but they're undertaking some
regular vet PD and they've gotgood assessment tools and we're
reviewing their trainingstrategies to make sure that
they're engaging and we'revalidating the competency
decisions that they come to atthe end, then you should have a
(05:48):
system in place that canmitigate any potential risks
that you know that that thatintroduces.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah, I recently delivered a web
workshop on the vet workforceand what are the requirements
and, in particular, looking attrainers and assessors and how
they can maintain their currency, and there are so many ways
that we they that they can dothat, but I think, I think, um,
(06:18):
for current trainers, it's goingto mean, okay, you fine, you
don't have to upgrade yourqualification, but make sure
you're doing your VET PD andyou're keeping current with the
changes, in particular, with allthe legislative changes that
we've got right now.
We've also discussed how thequalifications are going to
change as well.
You just need to stay ahead ofthose being involved in
(06:41):
assessment validation meetingsand part of that component
that's great PD to reallyunderstand the assessment tools
as well.
So, when it comes to thecurrent trainers, I see it as a
really good opportunity to,instead of having to upgrade to
another qualification, focus onjust ensuring your skills are
(07:03):
current within the vet sector,and your industry sector allows
more time to do that, I think.
For new trainers, though, Ithink it's a great opportunity
for bringing in new trainers andhaving them under mentoring
with other trainers, not havingto hold the qualification but
working towards.
I think that that is a greatchange and we did see that
(07:26):
change come in earlier last yeardue to the shortage skill
shortages that we have.
So, when we look at thecredentialing changes, what are
your?
Like I?
There hasn't been a lot ofchange that I've seen, because
they did implement it last year.
I don't think there is a majorchange other than that.
(07:49):
The main part for me is you canmaintain your 2010 or just
whatever qualification you're on.
Then maintain that VET PD.
How do you think it's going toimpact trainers when it comes to
their professional development?
Do you think they'll take it onboard?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
most rtos uh, most good rtos know that there's some
pretty major changes coming, uh, in 2025 and 2026, and so they
are.
You know there is a plan inplace to kind of go okay, well,
we're going to need to like talkabout how we're going to be
covering all this um.
So I I think that for the vastmajority of trainers out there,
(08:33):
it'll mostly be business asusual.
I think it probably makes it alittle bit easier for, for
example, our secondary schoolteachers that are delivering vet
in schools.
I know that that's always beenan area of concern for
regulators.
It's always been an area ofconcern for regulators.
(08:54):
It's always been an area ofconcern for schools.
Various states have brought indifferent measures and
mechanisms.
Like I know, wa will pay fortrainers to go out and undertake
industry currency, likeindustry workplace experience,
depending on the industry thatworks to varying you know,
(09:15):
varying degrees of success.
Obviously, there are certainindustries where you know you
really just can't allow somebodyon the floor for something
unless they work in theorganisation.
So I think, broadly, it doesjust actually give a little bit
of relief to the sector on howwe go about doing this.
(09:35):
Again, it's just going to boildown to if you've always been
doing it, that's great.
You've just got to make surethat you're documenting it.
You know, yeah, yeah, andthat's often the area where
they're doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I found it very interesting with the quality
area vet workforce.
It seems to be the onus now ison the RTO to ensure.
I found it very interestingwith the quality area vet
workforce.
It seems to be the onus now ison the RTO to ensure that their
main ensuring that theirtrainers are having PD.
What do you think based on yourexperience?
What do you think RTOs?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
will struggle most with when it comes to adapting
to these changes Contracttrainers.
So there's definitely a lot ofRTOs that, with their contract
trainers, really do push back inthis area and kind of go we're
not going to pay for any PD,we're not going to provide you
any PD, and that's.
You know that's always been areal area of like debate between
(10:30):
trainers and RTOs.
You know that's always been areal area of like debate between
trainers and RTOs.
Who's responsible for like?
For example, like I've hadtrainers that have had, you know
, one trainer matrix.
That trainer matrix is fullycompliant.
They've taken it to another RTOas a contract trainer and the
RTO has gone.
Well, no, you need to do it inour format and the trainer's
(10:51):
gone.
But no, you need to do it inour format and the trainer's
gone.
But I've given you evidence ofmy competency in currency and
they've gone.
No, you need to do it and thetrainer's gone.
Okay, fine, well, if you'regoing to pay me to do it, then
that's fine.
And they've gone.
No, no, you've got to do it onyour own time, right?
So I think that that sort ofstuff you know, um, the the onus
(11:12):
is on the rto to make sureyou've got evidence of it.
So I really don't think thatyou can be asking a trainer and
assessor to put together theirown trainer matrix in their own
time.
Um, you know, I don't.
I don't think that's gonna flyand certainly under the new
standards.
I think that you you do have it.
I mean, look, I believe thatRTOs always have an onus and
(11:35):
certainly there's heaps of freePD out there.
So, like, even if it's hey,we're going to pay you sit and
watch this podcast, answer thesequestions after the podcast.
Like, I know we provide aservice where we basically go
look, if you watch one of ourpodcasts and you want to
document it as PD, we'll sendyou out a you know a form link.
(11:59):
You can fill in that form, youcan send it back to us and then
we'll provide you with a littlecertificate.
Um, so we do that for like alot of people, like a lot of
trainers and assessors inparticular, to help them
document their professionaldevelopment.
Um, but rto should be like youshould be training your trainers
on.
You know, if you're aregistered training organization
(12:21):
, that cannot be botheredtraining your own staff.
It's a red flag like it just is.
You know, it's like all ofthese rtos that have never
bothered training their bloodyadmin, you know, and it's like
all of these RTOs that havenever bothered training their
bloody admin.
you know, and it's like so youradmin is like your first line of
compliance defence, Like theyare your best.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
It's now in the standards.
It's now in the standards thatall staff need to undergo vet PD
.
So I think you know, even ifyou've got contract trainers,
bring them in with all yourother staff and do the training
together and have that PD therewhere they get involved.
One of the things that I usedto do when I had my RTO is I'd
(13:01):
do two PD days a year.
Half the day would beassessment, validation and the
other half would be training forthe trainers and it was a great
day.
I didn't pay them because theywere all contract trainers, but
I provided lunch and I gave thema certificate of attendance, so
they got that pd and we had itfor their rtos right, yeah yeah
(13:27):
yeah, yeah, that's right.
So I think, when it comes to thevet, pd, I think and you've got
contract trainers, just bringthem in with all of the other uh
staff that you have.
Um, and it's so easy now youcan even do some videos and just
provide them with videos.
We've got our edustream youtubechannel.
I know you've got a youtubechannel as well where you they
(13:49):
could go on there and and bewatching some of those videos as
well while they're cookingdinner.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly so documenting it and I
think that, again, this is wheretrainers struggle is is they
might be engaging in some ofthese practices, but not
documenting it right and so youknow, like, you've got systems
like accelerate, where literallyyou can just go and pop a note
(14:15):
in and you can pop a piece ofevidence in and link it to
specific units.
Um, you've got structures likeyou know, if you, if you really
want to jump onto uh, jump ontoteams with yourself, with your
ai, once a month, document allthe things that you've done that
month, the AI will produce itas meeting minutes and, you know
(14:37):
, keep that in your system, putit on your PD register.
There's lots of different waysof doing it and it's just really
, you know, if you are engagingwith things, it should be.
It's so easy to document nowand that's again that's the part
is that trainers don't thinkabout.
(14:57):
It's like, if I'm, if you'regoing to jump onto a meeting
with one, with a couple ofindustry guys, right, document,
like, have ai document thatmeeting and just chuck the
meeting notes up there and alsoget, also get the ai to do a
summary of what are some of thekey things that you need to
change in your training toimprove the training and
(15:19):
assessment.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Because it's so easy now with with all these bots we
can do that and we just have aconversation with someone and
then the ai bot can do it, breakit down for you.
So, yeah, so what?
Um?
So, when it comes to ASQA andum, trainers and assessors, what
do you think they'll betargeting when it comes to
trainer assessor files and PD?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, look, trainer matrix is always document
number one, right?
Um, you know, and I think thearea that I see that trainers
fail with their trainer matricestime and time again is
contextualising industrycurrency to the units that they
deliver, right?
So the copy and paste, like Idon't know why, but it's just
(16:09):
like you get the same statementover and over and over and over
and over again um, we have aprocess whereby we now sit with
trainers and we'll ask themquestions, we'll do a half hour
interview.
It's reported by ai.
We then chuck that into um, wechuck the full transcript into
chat, gpt, we document all thatinformation and then we pull out
(16:31):
statements against each unit ofcompetency and then we'll jump
back online with the trainer andwe'll review it.
Now, we've had to come up withthat process because,
unfortunately, trainers seem tosit in front of this.
It's it's there's like a mentalblock, I think, for a lot of
trainers when they see thisdocument and it's like I don't
know, it's like an exam.
(16:52):
I can't Get back at school doingan exam A hundred percent and
they just, like it's writer'sblock, hits like there's no
tomorrow, whereas when we takethem through this process and I
mean you could do that processinternally, in-house, you know,
with anyone is that then they'rerefining something.
So they've got a starting placeto refine and go oh yeah, yeah,
(17:16):
yeah.
Well, I did do that andactually I created this dish.
Or oh yeah, yeah, I did thatproject and we ran into this
problem, but then we solved itby doing this, and so I find
that trainers work a lot betterrefining statements than they do
creating them from scratch.
Um, so you know, if you're atrainer and you've got to
develop your trainer matrixreally struggling, my suggestion
(17:39):
is jump onto a call withsomeone, pull up the name of
each unit of competency rightthat you've got to put it to
your trainer matrix.
have ai in the chat with you and, for each unit, just talk about
oh yeah, yeah, I worked in thisrestaurant or I worked in this
business like just talk to yourindustry experience on that
(18:01):
particular topic at a very highlevel, right and you don't need
to go into each performancecriteria you.
You're just doing it overallover the unit but it gives you
that starting point to start toaddress how you are like, and it
does allow you to think aboutyour industry currency and when
(18:22):
you get to certain points youare going to, as a trainer, go
god, I haven't really doneanything on that in, you know,
five years, ten years, and whenyou come to that point, that's
when you go, okay, cool, so thatthen forms my PD plan for next
year.
That's what this is.
Over the next 12 months I'mgoing to need to cover these
(18:44):
three topics, because these arethe ones where I'm like well,
actually, I really haven'treally touched on that for quite
a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I think so.
What I was going through withthe VET workforce training was
do an audit, and that soundsvery similar.
It's doing an audit of yourskills and knowledge against the
units that you are delivering,to identify where those gaps are
and then just fill those gaps.
It's not just, okay, we need todo VET PD, I'll just go off and
(19:11):
do something.
It's really identifying whereis the gaps that I have
currently and what do I need todo to fill those gaps, so that
then I'm current in that, inthat area.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's we have a new
training package frameworkcoming out in 20.
It's been released, um, and I'msure that we'll talk about that
in a lot more detail astraining packages start to roll
out um.
But you know, many of thetraining packages are going to
be getting rid of performancecriteria and elements and
(19:43):
they're going to be moving justto knowledge and skills.
Performance evidence, requiredevidence, um.
That's going to be a big change.
It's going to there.
There is, I know, a lot of thetraining packages are really
genuinely engaging in thisprocess this year of like okay,
let's see where we can massivelyoverhaul um, get involved, like
(20:04):
you know.
Jump onto your training packageprovider.
You know whether it's buildskills, whether it's saxo,
whether it's, you know, futureskills, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Or even just go down to traininggovau that you can
find all of that out ontraininggovau.
So who is your if you don'tknow?
So I'm just filling the gapshere if you don't know where to
find that.
And on traininggovau, on thehome page, it shows you all of
the packages that are underreview right now, so you can go
there see what's under review.
(20:35):
You also can see who is the jsc, so you can go to them and
learn more, and that should alsobe part of your pd yeah and I
mean, look, if that's a greatopportunity to um, you know, try
and enact some of those changes.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I know that that a lot of the JSCs and, for those
that don't know it, that's theJobs and Skills Council, also
previously referred to as theSkills Service Organisation or
Industry Skills Councils,industry Skills Council.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
We've been through a lot of that, depending how long
you've been in the trainingindustry.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So, but you know, know that, look, they are keen.
Um, many of us would rememberthe disaster of the rii 2015
release.
Um, it had such a huge impacton our industry.
Um, you know, because of theway the training package was
written, um, you know a lot ofit could have been avoided by
(21:32):
making sure that.
You know we had.
You know there was moreconsultation, there was more
consideration that was takeninto that.
So, you know, jump on, getinvolved, provide your feedback.
You know talk about what andtrainers so rarely get involved
in this process, like when yougo and you look at a lot of
(21:52):
these projects, you know we'regetting getting feedback.
There's feedback happening fromindustry.
There's feedback happening from, you know, compliance staff, um
and ceos and rto owners.
But, as a trainer, youunderstand the issues that occur
within your training package.
You understand that.
You know.
When you mention intelecommunications that it's an
(22:16):
RJ45 as opposed to, you knowwhat it's more commonly referred
to in industry or vice versa,you know.
You understand that whenthey've put a particular
criteria in the cybersecuritypackage that is now completely
and utterly redundant, you know.
You understand when they putinto the hospitality training
package that you've got to cook,you know, one of the things I
(22:40):
hate is the game.
I hate game being put into theunits, right?
Like I hate the fact thatyou've got to cook goat as part
of your general meat unit whenthere's not a lot of restaurants
that you know utilise goat andgame products.
You know, in a lot of theirrestaurants, right, so you
understand the challenges thatthat presents to you.
(23:01):
You understand the cost that'sinvolved for your students.
Every time you have to turnaround to your students and go.
I know, guys, I'm sorry, butit's in the training package.
That's the feedback that youshould be sending through.
It's what they need To the FSO.
Like two future skillsorganisations, two Bill Skills,
two SACs like that's thefeedback that they want to
(23:24):
receive.
It's like I am constantlyhaving to apologise for this
training package in this aspect,right, yeah, we don't do it
anymore.
You know the students don'tlike.
Like, students hate it.
It's not relevant, you know,and I, and the only reason why I
have to cover it is becauseit's in the training package.
You know, um, get involved.
(23:45):
That's the feedback that youneed to be pushing forward,
because that's what.
That's what they need to knowin order to make things better.
And you know, if you're notpart of the solution, then you
don't get to pitch about theproblem.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, all right, let's have a look at some
practical steps forimplementation.
If an RTO hasn't startedpreparing yet, what's the first
thing they should do followinglistening to this podcast?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So pull out and figure out what your actual if
you have a policy number one, um, where that policy is and where
it lies and who's aware of it,um, and then, um, produce a list
of your actual trainers andassessors and work out who
you've got what for.
The biggest challenge that Isee when I go into audit and
organisation is the RTOs gettinghold of the documentation.
(24:42):
Yeah, that is the biggestproblem that I have is I'm like
I'm going to audit this trainroom.
I'm just going to have to callthem and find out where all of
their stuff is.
I'm like, okay, cool, but thatis the most common problem that
I have.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I think the first thing they should do is an audit
of all of their trainers'matrices and put together some
PD plans.
If you've never done a PD planbefore now, you need to do it.
Plans.
If you've never done a pd planbefore now, you need to do it.
Um and look at pd that you cando for everyone on your team.
So bring those trainers in umfor the vet pd side, but with
(25:21):
the trainers, like what we'vealready said, identify what
those gaps are.
The first way, the first thingyou need to do, is audit.
Do an audit, identify where arethose gaps and um and I think
you know getting your trainerson a one-on-one conversation and
getting them speaking througheach unit of competency is a
great way to do it as well,because you're really going to
(25:43):
then identify where the gaps are.
So are there any quick wins orimmediate actions rtos can take
to ensure they're moving in theright direction?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, look, I mean, as I said, like sometimes, you
know, first collate yourdocumentation.
Do I have a training matrix foreveryone?
If I do, and half of them arelike three, four, five years old
, okay, your first step is allright.
Let's just book a half-hoursession for the trainer to sit
(26:16):
with a compliance person andlet's just do a review and an
update.
We'll record everything that wedo in that session and then we
can maybe flesh some stuff outfrom there.
Right, that's step number one.
That's a nice, easy win.
We know there's going to begaps.
We know there's lots of free PDavailable online.
So the other thing that we'regoing to do is we're just going
(26:39):
to book, we're going to ask allof our trainers to go and watch
you know, watch this podcast.
Watch, you know, anotherpodcast on the RTO standards,
and then we're going to geteveryone together on a Zoom call
with the quality team and we'regoing to do a Q&A.
Right, what do you guys want toknow?
(26:59):
What are your concerns?
What are our next steps?
It's all documented.
Meeting minutes from that getuploaded automatically into the
quality register and we've gotsomething.
We've got something, yes.
The other thing I think that youneed to be doing is utilising.
Like, look at the systems thatyou've actually got.
I think there's so many RTOsthat are paying for multiple
(27:21):
systems and not using them.
Like you know, you don't needto have a separate document
management system, a separatequality management system, a
separate finance managementsystem, a separate student
management system, a separatequality management system, a
separate finance managementsystem, a separate student
management system and a separate, you know, learner management
system.
Like I'm always being told and Ido laugh like people are like,
(27:44):
oh, you know, but accelerates alittle bit expensive, and I'm
like, okay, can we just sit downfor a second?
Like, let's just sit down for asecond, okay.
So let me get this straightyou're paying this much for your
shooter management system.
You're paying this much foryour moodle right on top of your
moodle.
You're you've got somebody two,two days a week in order to
maintain that moodle right thatyou're paying for.
(28:07):
You've got a separate documentmanagement system and then
you've got a separate qualitymanagement system that
supposedly maps all yourpolicies and procedures that
nobody can even tell me what thelog is like.
Nobody can even give me thefreaking login details for it.
Yeah, I'm like okay so I'mtallying all of those things up
and I'm like okay, so betweenall of those five systems and
(28:28):
that staff member, you're payingforty $40,000 a year.
Like I don't think Accelerateis more expensive than that doll
.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's really reviewing what systems
are you using and what is thecapacity of the other systems.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And how much are you actually using that system?
You know like if you're payingfor a system but not using it.
Like I was looking at someonethe other day and I went into
their zero and through thecourse of this review, we
realised they had two zeros.
They had one zero for the staffto raise the invoices right for
(29:08):
the students, and then they hada separate system where all of
the business expenses wererunning out of right.
And I'm sitting there and I'mgoing, I'm like, and I sit there
and I'm like what the F are youlike?
Are you kidding me why?
And they're going.
And like the owner's like Idon't know why, like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I'm sorry.
Someone told them to do that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And I was, I didn and I was like we got on the phone
with the bookkeeper and thebookkeeper was like oh well,
yeah, like I use this one forthis one, but then the
accountant uses this one forthis one.
I'm like this is madness,people, this is madness.
Stop, stop this.
You're raising invoices inaccelerate and two separate zero
accounts.
Like this is ridiculous.
Like this is ridiculous, yeahreally do an audit of?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
your systems.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Figure out what systems you're actually using
and then what your systems canactually use, and start to use
the systems that give you themost bad fever.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, totally, I totally agree with that.
All right, Lauren, this hasbeen fantastic, as per usual.
Love having you on.
But before we wrap up, what'syour biggest tip for trainers
and assessors not the RTOs, thetrainers and assessors when it
comes to navigating these newrequirements?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So I think there's still a lot of trainers and
assessors that aren't using AI,that are scared of it, that
aren't using a lot of trainersand assessors that aren't using
AI, that are scared of it, thataren't using a lot of the tools.
So, as a trainer and assessor,firefly is a read AI.
Okay, I would be getting asubscription for that and
utilizing that in any of themeetings that you're running
(30:50):
with, like admin staff, or withmanagers, or with quality staff
or with industry.
That's going to be a massivehelp to you later on down the
track.
If you're not comfortable withGPT, you need to start getting
comfortable with it.
Your students are using it.
So if you're not, you're goingto be left behind.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Stop putting your head in the sand.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
There's actually, like so many time-saving things
that you can do.
There's so many like tools andtechniques, that where AI can be
helping you to work smarter andnot harder you know, whether
it's producing session plans,whether it's coming up with
ideas for the classroom, whetherit's helping you to produce
some schematics for a buildproject that you want to do.
(31:29):
Start to engage with some ofthese resources that are going
to make your job.
Like that's going to allow youto work smarter and not smarter.
And you know you don't need tosit there and read a legal
instrument, right?
I get that.
You don't want to do that as atrainer and assessor.
(31:50):
Engage with podcasts.
Engage with you know, like,find a couple of decent YouTube
channels.
You know Mark Miles is greatfor training content.
You and I both have podcastsfor compliance content.
Like engage in content in a waythat works for you.
You have your own way of wantingto learn, just as all your
students have your own way ofwanting to learn, whether it's
(32:12):
audio, your own way of wantingto learn, whether it's audio,
visual, whatever, whether it'stalking to someone um, all of
those things are possiblewithout utilizing somebody
else's time.
Figure out the way and themedium that works for you.
The rules of evidence are stillvery clear that you, as the
trainer and assessor, are theperson who is responsible for
determining competency, and sothat's never going to change.
(32:32):
And so you do have an onus ofresponsibility for understanding
training packages,understanding you know the rules
of evidence and the principlesof assessment.
If you engage in nothing else,engage in PD around that
particular topic, because it'sgoing to work to protect you, to
make sure that you are notputting yourself into a position
(32:53):
where you're at risk yeah,totally, I totally agree with
all of that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Um, so what I'm going to do in the podcast notes, I'm
going to include those links.
So to your youtube channel,lauren, also have my youtube
channel.
Will, if you can, share with mesome others that we can put in
the notes as well, so that we'regoing to share with you.
What are these free things thatyou can access?
And go to these YouTubechannels and get started,
(33:21):
because I know Lauren's alreadybeen doing quite a few videos.
I've got quite a few FAQs.
As I said, they're only oneminute long, so nice and easy to
get through as well.
So if you're feelingoverwhelmed, don't worry.
Compliance is a journey andwe're here to guide you through
this.
Join our RTO Community Facebookgroup.
So we've got a Facebook groupcalled RTO Community.
(33:43):
We've also got another onecalled the RTO Job Board, so
keep the conversation going.
Yeah, thanks for tuning in andwe'll see you next time.
Thank you very much, lauren.
It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Thank you.
Welcome back to the RTO Superhero Podcast.
In our last episode, we coveredthe big picture changes in the
new standards.
Today we're going deeper howthe standards are going to
impact trainers, assessors andthe day-to-day operations of
RTOs.
Lauren is back with me tounpack trainers and RTO leaders
(00:21):
and what they need to do rightnow to ensure compliance.
Lauren, great to have you onagain.
I'm fresh, happy.
It's always awesome.
Okay, so let's dive in.
We're really going to belooking at the trainer and
assessor credentialing andwhat's new.
So, from what you've seen andreviewed, what are one of the
(00:44):
biggest areas of concern forRTOs when ensuring their
trainers and assessors meet thecompliance requirements?
What's changed in thecredential policy that you've
seen?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Look, I mean I feel like there's been a huge amount
of conversation in and aroundthis particular topic and in and
around the credential policyfor quite a long time now.
I mean, certainly this came out.
We had versions of it releasedin.
Actually, in March of 2024 waswhen the first you know kind of
(01:22):
version major announcement sortof came into play, and then
we've had the other version.
That's been a few days ago, Ithink one of the areas that I do
find interesting is how they'restarting to review training.
So certainly I know that, like Iwork with a lot of
(01:45):
organizations whereby we getindustry people to come in and
deliver training and things likethat, um, so we've got training
and assessment credentials andthen we've got assessment only
credentials.
Um, I know that there wasquestions about training um that
had been raised, you know, know, through the consultation
process.
(02:05):
I don't really know whether ornot that's been addressed
sufficiently within thecredential policy and within the
standards as well.
I think the idea of thetraining and assessment under
direction is a good concept andthe reason why I say that is
(02:29):
that I've got a lot of RTOs that, due to the trainer shortage,
have had to bring inindustry-qualified people,
partner them up with a trainer,and we've basically, like you
know, I think, over the lastprobably three years I probably
had worked with RTOs to, to youknow, put them out to people and
we probably put 20 or 30trainers through the tae in
(02:49):
order so that we could, you know, have trainers available in our
industry because there wasn't apool of suitably qualified
people.
Um, so, you know, I think theidea that, like you, you've got
you know the volunteer trainerdelivery skill set, or you know
somebody who already holds thefacilitation skill set coming in
(03:12):
to learn that assessment sideof things.
I think it was necessary.
We don't have the people in ourindustry.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
We've just had too much of a shortage.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I think the only areathat it really doesn't provide
for is is, like um and I knowthat I've got this question a
few times.
It's like, okay, well, if I'vegot somebody coming in, like
from industry who's going todeliver training for a couple of
days, uh, they're not going tobe overseeing the assessment,
they're just going to bedelivering.
Do they need to have thefacilitation skill set?
(03:45):
Do they need to have thedelivery volunteer trainer
delivery skill set?
You know, um, and I don't knowwhether or not that's been
clearly enough covered under thestandards and I don't know how
the regulator is going to intendto like approach that to our
component.
I know it's something that we'vestruggled with with um funded
training before, where, like we,we're getting industry, we're
(04:05):
getting like, the best people inindustry to come in and deliver
the training and you know, afunding department has gone,
yeah, but they don't have theirTAE, so we don't, we're not
going to pay you for thatparticular component, right,
yeah, yeah, great.
Like you know, you've gotindustry best practice happening
and because, because of youknow the fact that there's not a
(04:28):
tae there, we're not going torecognize it like, wow, that
that sucks, you know yeah, yeah,yeah and um, we've touched on
this before.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
What are your thoughts on the uh removing the
requirement to upgrade your tae?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
yeah, yeah, again like I mean.
I understand people'sreservations and their concerns
and the thoughts that we'requote unquote watering down
industry.
We are in a trainer shortage.
We don't have enough trainers,particularly in areas like
nursing, in areas like aged care, in all of the traits.
(05:03):
We don't have enoughelectrician trainers to put
electricians out there.
We don't have enough buildertrainers out there.
To you know, bring buildersinto our industry to actually
address the housing crisis thatwe've got in australia.
Yeah, so yeah, it can't be likewe have.
It's always going to be a bitof a give and take situation.
(05:25):
This is something that had tobe done.
If they only have the TAE-10,but they're undertaking some
regular vet PD and they've gotgood assessment tools and we're
reviewing their trainingstrategies to make sure that
they're engaging and we'revalidating the competency
decisions that they come to atthe end, then you should have a
(05:48):
system in place that canmitigate any potential risks
that you know that that thatintroduces.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah, I recently delivered a web
workshop on the vet workforceand what are the requirements
and, in particular, looking attrainers and assessors and how
they can maintain their currency, and there are so many ways
that we they that they can dothat, but I think, I think, um,
(06:18):
for current trainers, it's goingto mean, okay, you fine, you
don't have to upgrade yourqualification, but make sure
you're doing your VET PD andyou're keeping current with the
changes, in particular, with allthe legislative changes that
we've got right now.
We've also discussed how thequalifications are going to
change as well.
You just need to stay ahead ofthose being involved in
(06:41):
assessment validation meetingsand part of that component
that's great PD to reallyunderstand the assessment tools
as well.
So, when it comes to thecurrent trainers, I see it as a
really good opportunity to,instead of having to upgrade to
another qualification, focus onjust ensuring your skills are
(07:03):
current within the vet sector,and your industry sector allows
more time to do that, I think.
For new trainers, though, Ithink it's a great opportunity
for bringing in new trainers andhaving them under mentoring
with other trainers, not havingto hold the qualification but
working towards.
I think that that is a greatchange and we did see that
(07:26):
change come in earlier last yeardue to the shortage skill
shortages that we have.
So, when we look at thecredentialing changes, what are
your?
Like I?
There hasn't been a lot ofchange that I've seen, because
they did implement it last year.
I don't think there is a majorchange other than that.
(07:49):
The main part for me is you canmaintain your 2010 or just
whatever qualification you're on.
Then maintain that VET PD.
How do you think it's going toimpact trainers when it comes to
their professional development?
Do you think they'll take it onboard?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
most rtos uh, most good rtos know that there's some
pretty major changes coming, uh, in 2025 and 2026, and so they
are.
You know there is a plan inplace to kind of go okay, well,
we're going to need to like talkabout how we're going to be
covering all this um.
So I I think that for the vastmajority of trainers out there,
(08:33):
it'll mostly be business asusual.
I think it probably makes it alittle bit easier for, for
example, our secondary schoolteachers that are delivering vet
in schools.
I know that that's always beenan area of concern for
regulators.
It's always been an area ofconcern for regulators.
(08:54):
It's always been an area ofconcern for schools.
Various states have brought indifferent measures and
mechanisms.
Like I know, wa will pay fortrainers to go out and undertake
industry currency, likeindustry workplace experience,
depending on the industry thatworks to varying you know,
(09:15):
varying degrees of success.
Obviously, there are certainindustries where you know you
really just can't allow somebodyon the floor for something
unless they work in theorganisation.
So I think, broadly, it doesjust actually give a little bit
of relief to the sector on howwe go about doing this.
(09:35):
Again, it's just going to boildown to if you've always been
doing it, that's great.
You've just got to make surethat you're documenting it.
You know, yeah, yeah, andthat's often the area where
they're doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I found it very interesting with the quality
area vet workforce.
It seems to be the onus now ison the RTO to ensure.
I found it very interestingwith the quality area vet
workforce.
It seems to be the onus now ison the RTO to ensure that their
main ensuring that theirtrainers are having PD.
What do you think based on yourexperience?
What do you think RTOs?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
will struggle most with when it comes to adapting
to these changes Contracttrainers.
So there's definitely a lot ofRTOs that, with their contract
trainers, really do push back inthis area and kind of go we're
not going to pay for any PD,we're not going to provide you
any PD, and that's.
You know that's always been areal area of like debate between
(10:30):
trainers and RTOs.
You know that's always been areal area of like debate between
trainers and RTOs.
Who's responsible for like?
For example, like I've hadtrainers that have had, you know
, one trainer matrix.
That trainer matrix is fullycompliant.
They've taken it to another RTOas a contract trainer and the
RTO has gone.
Well, no, you need to do it inour format and the trainer's
(10:51):
gone.
But no, you need to do it inour format and the trainer's
gone.
But I've given you evidence ofmy competency in currency and
they've gone.
No, you need to do it and thetrainer's gone.
Okay, fine, well, if you'regoing to pay me to do it, then
that's fine.
And they've gone.
No, no, you've got to do it onyour own time, right?
So I think that that sort ofstuff you know, um, the the onus
(11:12):
is on the rto to make sureyou've got evidence of it.
So I really don't think thatyou can be asking a trainer and
assessor to put together theirown trainer matrix in their own
time.
Um, you know, I don't.
I don't think that's gonna flyand certainly under the new
standards.
I think that you you do have it.
I mean, look, I believe thatRTOs always have an onus and
(11:35):
certainly there's heaps of freePD out there.
So, like, even if it's hey,we're going to pay you sit and
watch this podcast, answer thesequestions after the podcast.
Like, I know we provide aservice where we basically go
look, if you watch one of ourpodcasts and you want to
document it as PD, we'll sendyou out a you know a form link.
(11:59):
You can fill in that form, youcan send it back to us and then
we'll provide you with a littlecertificate.
Um, so we do that for like alot of people, like a lot of
trainers and assessors inparticular, to help them
document their professionaldevelopment.
Um, but rto should be like youshould be training your trainers
on.
You know, if you're aregistered training organization
(12:21):
, that cannot be botheredtraining your own staff.
It's a red flag like it just is.
You know, it's like all ofthese rtos that have never
bothered training their bloodyadmin, you know, and it's like
all of these RTOs that havenever bothered training their
bloody admin.
you know, and it's like so youradmin is like your first line of
compliance defence, Like theyare your best.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
It's now in the standards.
It's now in the standards thatall staff need to undergo vet PD
.
So I think you know, even ifyou've got contract trainers,
bring them in with all yourother staff and do the training
together and have that PD therewhere they get involved.
One of the things that I usedto do when I had my RTO is I'd
(13:01):
do two PD days a year.
Half the day would beassessment, validation and the
other half would be training forthe trainers and it was a great
day.
I didn't pay them because theywere all contract trainers, but
I provided lunch and I gave thema certificate of attendance, so
they got that pd and we had itfor their rtos right, yeah yeah
(13:27):
yeah, yeah, that's right.
So I think, when it comes to thevet, pd, I think and you've got
contract trainers, just bringthem in with all of the other uh
staff that you have.
Um, and it's so easy now youcan even do some videos and just
provide them with videos.
We've got our edustream youtubechannel.
I know you've got a youtubechannel as well where you they
(13:49):
could go on there and and bewatching some of those videos as
well while they're cookingdinner.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly so documenting it and I
think that, again, this is wheretrainers struggle is is they
might be engaging in some ofthese practices, but not
documenting it right and so youknow, like, you've got systems
like accelerate, where literallyyou can just go and pop a note
(14:15):
in and you can pop a piece ofevidence in and link it to
specific units.
Um, you've got structures likeyou know, if you, if you really
want to jump onto uh, jump ontoteams with yourself, with your
ai, once a month, document allthe things that you've done that
month, the AI will produce itas meeting minutes and, you know
(14:37):
, keep that in your system, putit on your PD register.
There's lots of different waysof doing it and it's just really
, you know, if you are engagingwith things, it should be.
It's so easy to document nowand that's again that's the part
is that trainers don't thinkabout.
(14:57):
It's like, if I'm, if you'regoing to jump onto a meeting
with one, with a couple ofindustry guys, right, document,
like, have ai document thatmeeting and just chuck the
meeting notes up there and alsoget, also get the ai to do a
summary of what are some of thekey things that you need to
change in your training toimprove the training and
(15:19):
assessment.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Because it's so easy now with with all these bots we
can do that and we just have aconversation with someone and
then the ai bot can do it, breakit down for you.
So, yeah, so what?
Um?
So, when it comes to ASQA andum, trainers and assessors, what
do you think they'll betargeting when it comes to
trainer assessor files and PD?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, look, trainer matrix is always document
number one, right?
Um, you know, and I think thearea that I see that trainers
fail with their trainer matricestime and time again is
contextualising industrycurrency to the units that they
deliver, right?
So the copy and paste, like Idon't know why, but it's just
(16:09):
like you get the same statementover and over and over and over
and over again um, we have aprocess whereby we now sit with
trainers and we'll ask themquestions, we'll do a half hour
interview.
It's reported by ai.
We then chuck that into um, wechuck the full transcript into
chat, gpt, we document all thatinformation and then we pull out
(16:31):
statements against each unit ofcompetency and then we'll jump
back online with the trainer andwe'll review it.
Now, we've had to come up withthat process because,
unfortunately, trainers seem tosit in front of this.
It's it's there's like a mentalblock, I think, for a lot of
trainers when they see thisdocument and it's like I don't
know, it's like an exam.
(16:52):
I can't Get back at school doingan exam A hundred percent and
they just, like it's writer'sblock, hits like there's no
tomorrow, whereas when we takethem through this process and I
mean you could do that processinternally, in-house, you know,
with anyone is that then they'rerefining something.
So they've got a starting placeto refine and go oh yeah, yeah,
(17:16):
yeah.
Well, I did do that andactually I created this dish.
Or oh yeah, yeah, I did thatproject and we ran into this
problem, but then we solved itby doing this, and so I find
that trainers work a lot betterrefining statements than they do
creating them from scratch.
Um, so you know, if you're atrainer and you've got to
develop your trainer matrixreally struggling, my suggestion
(17:39):
is jump onto a call withsomeone, pull up the name of
each unit of competency rightthat you've got to put it to
your trainer matrix.
have ai in the chat with you and, for each unit, just talk about
oh yeah, yeah, I worked in thisrestaurant or I worked in this
business like just talk to yourindustry experience on that
(18:01):
particular topic at a very highlevel, right and you don't need
to go into each performancecriteria you.
You're just doing it overallover the unit but it gives you
that starting point to start toaddress how you are like, and it
does allow you to think aboutyour industry currency and when
(18:22):
you get to certain points youare going to, as a trainer, go
god, I haven't really doneanything on that in, you know,
five years, ten years, and whenyou come to that point, that's
when you go, okay, cool, so thatthen forms my PD plan for next
year.
That's what this is.
Over the next 12 months I'mgoing to need to cover these
(18:44):
three topics, because these arethe ones where I'm like well,
actually, I really haven'treally touched on that for quite
a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I think so.
What I was going through withthe VET workforce training was
do an audit, and that soundsvery similar.
It's doing an audit of yourskills and knowledge against the
units that you are delivering,to identify where those gaps are
and then just fill those gaps.
It's not just, okay, we need todo VET PD, I'll just go off and
(19:11):
do something.
It's really identifying whereis the gaps that I have
currently and what do I need todo to fill those gaps, so that
then I'm current in that, inthat area.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's we have a new
training package frameworkcoming out in 20.
It's been released, um, and I'msure that we'll talk about that
in a lot more detail astraining packages start to roll
out um.
But you know, many of thetraining packages are going to
be getting rid of performancecriteria and elements and
(19:43):
they're going to be moving justto knowledge and skills.
Performance evidence, requiredevidence, um.
That's going to be a big change.
It's going to there.
There is, I know, a lot of thetraining packages are really
genuinely engaging in thisprocess this year of like okay,
let's see where we can massivelyoverhaul um, get involved, like
(20:04):
you know.
Jump onto your training packageprovider.
You know whether it's buildskills, whether it's saxo,
whether it's, you know, futureskills, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Or even just go down to traininggovau that you can
find all of that out ontraininggovau.
So who is your if you don'tknow?
So I'm just filling the gapshere if you don't know where to
find that.
And on traininggovau, on thehome page, it shows you all of
the packages that are underreview right now, so you can go
there see what's under review.
(20:35):
You also can see who is the jsc, so you can go to them and
learn more, and that should alsobe part of your pd yeah and I
mean, look, if that's a greatopportunity to um, you know, try
and enact some of those changes.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I know that that a lot of the JSCs and, for those
that don't know it, that's theJobs and Skills Council, also
previously referred to as theSkills Service Organisation or
Industry Skills Councils,industry Skills Council.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
We've been through a lot of that, depending how long
you've been in the trainingindustry.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So, but you know, know that, look, they are keen.
Um, many of us would rememberthe disaster of the rii 2015
release.
Um, it had such a huge impacton our industry.
Um, you know, because of theway the training package was
written, um, you know a lot ofit could have been avoided by
(21:32):
making sure that.
You know we had.
You know there was moreconsultation, there was more
consideration that was takeninto that.
So, you know, jump on, getinvolved, provide your feedback.
You know talk about what andtrainers so rarely get involved
in this process, like when yougo and you look at a lot of
(21:52):
these projects, you know we'regetting getting feedback.
There's feedback happening fromindustry.
There's feedback happening from, you know, compliance staff, um
and ceos and rto owners.
But, as a trainer, youunderstand the issues that occur
within your training package.
You understand that.
You know.
When you mention intelecommunications that it's an
(22:16):
RJ45 as opposed to, you knowwhat it's more commonly referred
to in industry or vice versa,you know.
You understand that whenthey've put a particular
criteria in the cybersecuritypackage that is now completely
and utterly redundant, you know.
You understand when they putinto the hospitality training
package that you've got to cook,you know, one of the things I
(22:40):
hate is the game.
I hate game being put into theunits, right?
Like I hate the fact thatyou've got to cook goat as part
of your general meat unit whenthere's not a lot of restaurants
that you know utilise goat andgame products.
You know, in a lot of theirrestaurants, right, so you
understand the challenges thatthat presents to you.
(23:01):
You understand the cost that'sinvolved for your students.
Every time you have to turnaround to your students and go.
I know, guys, I'm sorry, butit's in the training package.
That's the feedback that youshould be sending through.
It's what they need To the FSO.
Like two future skillsorganisations, two Bill Skills,
two SACs like that's thefeedback that they want to
(23:24):
receive.
It's like I am constantlyhaving to apologise for this
training package in this aspect,right, yeah, we don't do it
anymore.
You know the students don'tlike.
Like, students hate it.
It's not relevant, you know,and I, and the only reason why I
have to cover it is becauseit's in the training package.
You know, um, get involved.
(23:45):
That's the feedback that youneed to be pushing forward,
because that's what.
That's what they need to knowin order to make things better.
And you know, if you're notpart of the solution, then you
don't get to pitch about theproblem.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, all right, let's have a look at some
practical steps forimplementation.
If an RTO hasn't startedpreparing yet, what's the first
thing they should do followinglistening to this podcast?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
So pull out and figure out what your actual if
you have a policy number one, um, where that policy is and where
it lies and who's aware of it,um, and then, um, produce a list
of your actual trainers andassessors and work out who
you've got what for.
The biggest challenge that Isee when I go into audit and
organisation is the RTOs gettinghold of the documentation.
(24:42):
Yeah, that is the biggestproblem that I have is I'm like
I'm going to audit this trainroom.
I'm just going to have to callthem and find out where all of
their stuff is.
I'm like, okay, cool, but thatis the most common problem that
I have.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I think the first thing they should do is an audit
of all of their trainers'matrices and put together some
PD plans.
If you've never done a PD planbefore now, you need to do it.
Plans.
If you've never done a pd planbefore now, you need to do it.
Um and look at pd that you cando for everyone on your team.
So bring those trainers in umfor the vet pd side, but with
(25:21):
the trainers, like what we'vealready said, identify what
those gaps are.
The first way, the first thingyou need to do, is audit.
Do an audit, identify where arethose gaps and um and I think
you know getting your trainerson a one-on-one conversation and
getting them speaking througheach unit of competency is a
great way to do it as well,because you're really going to
(25:43):
then identify where the gaps are.
So are there any quick wins orimmediate actions rtos can take
to ensure they're moving in theright direction?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, look, I mean, as I said, like sometimes, you
know, first collate yourdocumentation.
Do I have a training matrix foreveryone?
If I do, and half of them arelike three, four, five years old
, okay, your first step is allright.
Let's just book a half-hoursession for the trainer to sit
(26:16):
with a compliance person andlet's just do a review and an
update.
We'll record everything that wedo in that session and then we
can maybe flesh some stuff outfrom there.
Right, that's step number one.
That's a nice, easy win.
We know there's going to begaps.
We know there's lots of free PDavailable online.
So the other thing that we'regoing to do is we're just going
(26:39):
to book, we're going to ask allof our trainers to go and watch
you know, watch this podcast.
Watch, you know, anotherpodcast on the RTO standards,
and then we're going to geteveryone together on a Zoom call
with the quality team and we'regoing to do a Q&A.
Right, what do you guys want toknow?
(26:59):
What are your concerns?
What are our next steps?
It's all documented.
Meeting minutes from that getuploaded automatically into the
quality register and we've gotsomething.
We've got something, yes.
The other thing I think that youneed to be doing is utilising.
Like, look at the systems thatyou've actually got.
I think there's so many RTOsthat are paying for multiple
(27:21):
systems and not using them.
Like you know, you don't needto have a separate document
management system, a separatequality management system, a
separate finance managementsystem, a separate student
management system, a separatequality management system, a
separate finance managementsystem, a separate student
management system and a separate, you know, learner management
system.
Like I'm always being told and Ido laugh like people are like,
(27:44):
oh, you know, but accelerates alittle bit expensive, and I'm
like, okay, can we just sit downfor a second?
Like, let's just sit down for asecond, okay.
So let me get this straightyou're paying this much for your
shooter management system.
You're paying this much foryour moodle right on top of your
moodle.
You're you've got somebody two,two days a week in order to
maintain that moodle right thatyou're paying for.
(28:07):
You've got a separate documentmanagement system and then
you've got a separate qualitymanagement system that
supposedly maps all yourpolicies and procedures that
nobody can even tell me what thelog is like.
Nobody can even give me thefreaking login details for it.
Yeah, I'm like okay so I'mtallying all of those things up
and I'm like okay, so betweenall of those five systems and
(28:28):
that staff member, you're payingforty $40,000 a year.
Like I don't think Accelerateis more expensive than that doll
.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's really reviewing what systems
are you using and what is thecapacity of the other systems.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And how much are you actually using that system?
You know like if you're payingfor a system but not using it.
Like I was looking at someonethe other day and I went into
their zero and through thecourse of this review, we
realised they had two zeros.
They had one zero for the staffto raise the invoices right for
(29:08):
the students, and then they hada separate system where all of
the business expenses wererunning out of right.
And I'm sitting there and I'mgoing, I'm like, and I sit there
and I'm like what the F are youlike?
Are you kidding me why?
And they're going.
And like the owner's like Idon't know why, like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I'm sorry.
Someone told them to do that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And I was, I didn and I was like we got on the phone
with the bookkeeper and thebookkeeper was like oh well,
yeah, like I use this one forthis one, but then the
accountant uses this one forthis one.
I'm like this is madness,people, this is madness.
Stop, stop this.
You're raising invoices inaccelerate and two separate zero
accounts.
Like this is ridiculous.
Like this is ridiculous, yeahreally do an audit of?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
your systems.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Figure out what systems you're actually using
and then what your systems canactually use, and start to use
the systems that give you themost bad fever.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, totally, I totally agree with that.
All right, Lauren, this hasbeen fantastic, as per usual.
Love having you on.
But before we wrap up, what'syour biggest tip for trainers
and assessors not the RTOs, thetrainers and assessors when it
comes to navigating these newrequirements?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So I think there's still a lot of trainers and
assessors that aren't using AI,that are scared of it, that
aren't using a lot of trainersand assessors that aren't using
AI, that are scared of it, thataren't using a lot of the tools.
So, as a trainer and assessor,firefly is a read AI.
Okay, I would be getting asubscription for that and
utilizing that in any of themeetings that you're running
(30:50):
with, like admin staff, or withmanagers, or with quality staff
or with industry.
That's going to be a massivehelp to you later on down the
track.
If you're not comfortable withGPT, you need to start getting
comfortable with it.
Your students are using it.
So if you're not, you're goingto be left behind.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Stop putting your head in the sand.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
There's actually, like so many time-saving things
that you can do.
There's so many like tools andtechniques, that where AI can be
helping you to work smarter andnot harder you know, whether
it's producing session plans,whether it's coming up with
ideas for the classroom, whetherit's helping you to produce
some schematics for a buildproject that you want to do.
(31:29):
Start to engage with some ofthese resources that are going
to make your job.
Like that's going to allow youto work smarter and not smarter.
And you know you don't need tosit there and read a legal
instrument, right?
I get that.
You don't want to do that as atrainer and assessor.
(31:50):
Engage with podcasts.
Engage with you know, like,find a couple of decent YouTube
channels.
You know Mark Miles is greatfor training content.
You and I both have podcastsfor compliance content.
Like engage in content in a waythat works for you.
You have your own way of wantingto learn, just as all your
students have your own way ofwanting to learn, whether it's
(32:12):
audio, your own way of wantingto learn, whether it's audio,
visual, whatever, whether it'stalking to someone um, all of
those things are possiblewithout utilizing somebody
else's time.
Figure out the way and themedium that works for you.
The rules of evidence are stillvery clear that you, as the
trainer and assessor, are theperson who is responsible for
determining competency, and sothat's never going to change.
(32:32):
And so you do have an onus ofresponsibility for understanding
training packages,understanding you know the rules
of evidence and the principlesof assessment.
If you engage in nothing else,engage in PD around that
particular topic, because it'sgoing to work to protect you, to
make sure that you are notputting yourself into a position
(32:53):
where you're at risk yeah,totally, I totally agree with
all of that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Um, so what I'm going to do in the podcast notes, I'm
going to include those links.
So to your youtube channel,lauren, also have my youtube
channel.
Will, if you can, share with mesome others that we can put in
the notes as well, so that we'regoing to share with you.
What are these free things thatyou can access?
And go to these YouTubechannels and get started,
(33:21):
because I know Lauren's alreadybeen doing quite a few videos.
I've got quite a few FAQs.
As I said, they're only oneminute long, so nice and easy to
get through as well.
So if you're feelingoverwhelmed, don't worry.
Compliance is a journey andwe're here to guide you through
this.
Join our RTO Community Facebookgroup.
So we've got a Facebook groupcalled RTO Community.
(33:43):
We've also got another onecalled the RTO Job Board, so
keep the conversation going.
Yeah, thanks for tuning in andwe'll see you next time.
Thank you very much, lauren.
It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Thank you.
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