October 14, 2024 • 16 mins
In this episode, Joe and Jen debate if making changes based on ergonomic evaluations are worth the money, and how to get a return on any ergo projects. If you're wondering if JHAs, JSAs, and Ergo assessments are worth the time and effort, this one is for you!
Key Takeaways:
Ergonomics Is Often Overlooked: When businesses are under pressure, ergonomic improvements are frequently postponed, yet neglecting them leads to higher injury rates and long-term costs.
New Hires at Risk: In physically demanding industries like poultry processing, new hires are particularly vulnerable to ergonomic injuries, especially if proper work hardening and ramp-up processes are not followed.
Broaden Ergonomic Understanding: Ergonomics isn't just about repetitive tasks; it involves the entire work environment, including awkward movements, environmental factors, and poorly designed equipment.
PPE and Ergonomics: Ill-fitting PPE can cause significant ergonomic problems, especially for women or other employees whose body types differ from the "standard" sizing used for most PPE.
ROI of Ergonomic Solutions: Investing in ergonomic solutions can deliver a solid ROI by reducing injuries, improving productivity, and even lowering turnover in high-risk roles.
Work Design Matters: Ergonomic assessments should include the broader context of the worker’s environment, not just isolated tasks.
Fatigue Increases Risks: Ergonomic risks increase toward the end of a shift when workers are fatigued, making tasks like lifting heavy hoses more dangerous.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week's episodes is ergo a waste of money.
Is it worth your money?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I don't know.
We're going to figure it outtoday.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We're going to work through it.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Here we go All the time.
People say to me ergo's great,ergo's bad, do we need ergo?
All I hear from plant to plantis we have ergo first.
I think we determine is whatare we even talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
because I think that this is a really, really good
one.
So we're getting ready to starta cost series as it relates to
safety.
So how do we manage cost andsafety?
Where do we find that costsavings for the continuous
improvement we're looking foreveryone's budget conscious and
you guys asked for us to coversome stuff on ergo.
We're going to start with ergobecause that is a big one and
it's usually the thing thatfalls off when we start getting
(00:50):
shorthanded and we get behind onstuff we usually don't do, ergo
stuff, so let's talk about it.
Is that important or not?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
All right.
So the first one is I don'thave an ergo problem at my plant
because we have turnover, so Idon't have to worry about it.
That's what I hear all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, so I guess it really is dependent on what you
manufacture, what your businessis, Because I can tell you on
the poultry side that is some ofthe most frequent cases we see
are new employees because wedidn't do the rampant at all.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Maybe they caused the turnover.
Yeah, we didn't do it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So we've got the turnover because of the high
piece counts or we didn't do thework hardening, but we had a
lot of ergo issues on thepoultry side that we've seen
because they just it's veryphysically demanding.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I thought the cow hide his.
Ergo, I saw poultry.
I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh yeah, I saw poultry.
I'm like, oh no, oh yeah, thetwisting and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
There's a lot different on the poultry side.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I think the first thing we want to do is really
kind of expand what we considerergonomics right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh, I palletize.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So it's more than just.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I do count with a knife.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it's more than.
The three top things.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, we want to expand our view past its
palletizing box makeup and wefix it by getting a new conveyor
.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And knife handling jobs right?
What could be presenting anissue that's past the production
floor?
What about the outlying jobs?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Our company Ergo.
Eight hour, 10 hour, 12 hourdrive, that's our Ergo.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Or standing for 10 to 12 hours.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Absolutely, or we got gotta do six hours yeah, we're
out in the weather.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean, those are, those are our argo yeah, so I
think part of it is anythingthat's extreme one direction or
another, absolutely including.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It could be both sides of the spectrum so
anything that's really hot,really cold, anything that's
standing or sitting forprolonged periods I get promoted
when I'm handling chemicals, sonow I'm the one that does all
the heavy lifting with themassive, massive beginning.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm the one, not the end user.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
The end user's got the small container and they
roll it around.
I'm the ergo one, but it lookslike they would have the ergo
because they're actually doingit more, but their risk is lower
than mine.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Because they're not able or allowed maybe at that
facility to mix or titrate.
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And it's the weight of it, it's the containers, but
I'm still doing it every night.
I may have to do it 100 times anight, but I'm doing 50.
Yeah, so that's the weird stufflike that, so people do get
caught up in.
Well, it's small, you do it 100times.
It's a lot, yep, all right, sohere's one that gets me.
So I travel a lot.
Everybody knows that.
New plants all the time.
A lot of times I go there forthree hours, five hours, five
(03:27):
days.
I don't know, but I will tellyou.
You put a hard hat on me and Iwill tell you instantaneously if
I think that hard hat feelsgood or not, in about 15 minutes
to eight hours.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Because, ergo, it's quite a time span.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
But the point is ergo .
People will say well, they worethis PPE for days, there wasn't
a problem.
But some people like when I'mnew, I can feel it so as a new
hire.
The new hire, if you put PPE onthem you don't have to worry
about ergo with them, becausethey're going to tell you it
feels weird and they're alreadyhaving problems.
So now making them wear thewrong size PPE or the wrong hard
hat, the wrong glove, thatcould be your ergo from day one.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think part of it is so in our industry we have to
have PPE that meets a multitudeof needs.
Right, We've got to meet thefood safety stuff.
We've got to meet the safetystuff.
You know, some of it is becauseof the maintenance teams or the
chemical handling.
So there's a lot going on thateach item has to meet specific
standards for expectations forright.
But I think it's reallyimportant to remember.
(04:23):
First, it's PPE.
We're all built a littledifferently, correct, so some
things that are going to causepressure in different parts, I
mean it should be.
I get to select.
That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We select hearing protection.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, there's pre-approved styles that we are
aware that meet the needs thatwe have, and then they get to
pick because, again, everybody'sshaped different.
I'm very cognizant of thisbecause, as a female.
Most ppe in my past it's gettingbetter now but most
historically has been made for amale and so it's all way too
(04:54):
big.
Which is constantly with thegloves.
Why is every pair of glovessize large or extra large?
Why is every pair of boots thatI get not fitting me?
That's a trip hazard.
That's a slip hazard.
It's also weird on my legs.
When I'm walking around foreight hours on a production
floor it hurts my calves and mylegs because I'm having to do
something weird with my feet tokeep them from falling off when
I'm moving around.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So it could be the thickness of the clothing, like
thick pants, like arc flash you,you put arc flash on jen, so
jen got some arc flash gear yeah, I've got a lot of cat too
stuff yeah, and you know the arcflash I was wearing at the
plants was super thick.
Well, it weighs on you all daylong and it's hot.
She was able to give herdifferent styles, so she had the
same flash hazard reduction,but from an argo side mine is
(05:35):
way heavier and way harder, eventhough you would think in the
old days that was backwards, butnow she has a better outfit
yeah, I do well, and that's thething.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So I think it's really important, especially in
the PPE side, that we don't geareverybody up to prevent the
injury, just to cause it.
On the ergo side, I mean, I'mthinking of even like my farms
if we've got coveralls at myfarms that are too big and we
keep adjusting all the time.
You know it's weird all daylong and that can be, even if
it's not necessarily an ergoinjury because of that constant
(06:06):
adjusting of stuff, that canstill cause an injury in other
ways too.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I also look at, ergo, some of the repetitive, so
not just repetitive, as indoing the task but that I catch
my eye, if I see them.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Completely yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So here's the, here's the one.
Forklifts Right?
Okay, you told me that if Idrive a forklift I got to face
Ford when I drive it, so I don'trun over everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But you also told me, as a safety manager plant you
can't drive with a bunch ofpallets because you can't see
around.
So now you got to drivebackwards or forward.
Yeah, that forklift.
You never gave me a chair toturn around.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, see your neck my whole day on.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
The forklift is turned yeah, my whole day
because the safety pause.
So, yes, ergo man, not a cot.
That was an issue, but it'sforcing me from the safety side
because I'm carrying these eightor nine pallets, I'm always
turned backwards absolutely sonow I'm always sore.
I'm Absolutely so.
Now I'm always sore, I'm alwaystilted, and now it's hard.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It's hard for me all day long.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
That chair is not made to do that, right, right.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So that's one of our ergos, so that's one of our
ergos, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So another one is everyone has a top 10 for ergo
and they say here they are,we're going to do knife handling
, we've got this, we've got that.
That's great.
But what I look for is how manyof the top 10 reduce the risk
and I get a money payback on yes.
So what I look at Ergo is Idon't look at Ergo as a $50,000
machine that fixes the problem.
(07:30):
I look at what, when I'mputting a plan in place Ergo,
what is the thing I can get themost payback on?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And then, as I do, that, it seems to be easier to
sell the ergo idea.
So if I say, look at production, that's right.
Look at the labor's not as badand the piece count has went
down or maybe it's the weight isreduced.
So that's how I look at ergo.
Yes, and I know that's thingsyou're supposed to do, but
realistically, we've worked inplants where it just doesn't
happen.
(07:58):
So I think when you're lookingat Ergo overall and you're
saying, is it worth my money ornot, you've got to look at ROI,
you've got to look at how thatand then sell that.
If you're the safety manager orthe Ergo manager, sell it, look
what I can do and how it helpsus out.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, and I think a big thing that you can evaluate
if you are a facility that'sexperiencing a lot of turnover
is that the jobs that you'reseeing the most turnover in.
That might also have acorrelation to ergo and if it
does, you're seeing lots ofturnover and you have ergo
issues with it.
That might be a good one tolook at automation on.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Absolutely All right.
Another one I look at is workdesigns.
So I don't look at work designas in where I'm doing the task
in front of me.
I look at the work design ashow many times I have to go
around the area I'm working andhow many other steps I gotta do.
So maybe my ergo is not myshoulders.
My ergo is my feet, alwaysstepping and twisting over a
(08:53):
pipe or like a cry back.
You got the discharge side andalways stepping on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
How many times am I stepping over this weird drain?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and I'm getting this piece of plastic every
time and I'm always leaning overto do it.
That's the stuff that sometimespeople miss when they look at
ergo, because they'll evaluatewell, I stand to do the job this
way, well.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I think that's exactly it.
So the ergo assessment isdesigned to say what is this job
task?
I'm going to watch their jobtask, but we're not evaluating
the environment sometimes to see, yeah, but in order for them to
do their job tasks, this otherstuff is weird over here, right.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I use that time.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Every time a forklift comes in or every time somebody
.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
They have to move to the left a couple of weeks, so I
use that ergo assessment asthat.
What can I engineer out aroundthe person in their working area
to have less ergo other issues.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, out around the person and their working area to
have less or go other issues?
Yeah, can we adjust their theirwork setting so that they're
not having to bend, twist, walkall?
All over the place and andcarry this stuff at a weird
angle.
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So that reduces my injuries, it makes my profit go
up, yeah, and it gets rid of mymy maintenance always
complaining that something'salways getting kicked or
something's always getting looseStood on or whatever.
Well, it's because that designof that workstation isn't right.
So I will use the ergoassessment, but as I do that, I
will look at all the otherthings.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And if I can engineer out those other controls, I
actually can lower my hazard.
You start looking at do I havean ergo job potentially, and you
evaluate well, what's my repairand maintenance like in this
department and if I start seeinga lot of weird repair and
maintenance stuff that'srepetitive from production
employees doing a certain task.
So maybe it's standing onsomething or stepping on
something.
Well, that would be a greattrigger for me to look at.
(10:35):
Hey, I can get a little bitsafer environment for my
employee and I can also reducereduce my my repair maintenance
costs too.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Right, so I so that's your ROI, yeah.
So when I look at ergo, whetherit's a cost or not, I use it in
different ways when I'm doingthose assessments.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, so really it's an environment evaluation and a
hazard evaluation.
It's not exclusively just am Ibending and twisting and have
lots of repetition, it's abigger thing.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I'm looking for everything they're doing that
day and I'm also looking at.
The last part is I'm looking atif that person's gone and we
have someone called vacation, soJoe's the fill in for your job
whenever you were gone.
Mm-hmm you had an ergoassessment the way you did it
and I'm throwing it in theretomorrow and I haven't done it.
In six months my ergoassessment is going to be
(11:24):
completely different.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So you've got to calculate that people are going
to take vacation, people aregoing to take days off and
someone's going to fill in.
So I have two ways.
I have the ergo, how theynormally do it, yep.
And then I'm like, okay, butsix months going to come in and
be able to do it, just like that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And it's and it's goes back to that turnover issue
, because that's something verysimilar to bringing a new
employee.
If they haven't been doing itfor six months, to me they're
basically a new employee.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Absolutely For that job.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
For that job they don't have that, that buildup of
that works, hardening, correctTo help them out to prevent that
injury.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Here's another ergo one.
I'm a maintenance person at aplant and they give me the
biggest belt I can carry with asmany tools possible and there's
no weight per tool calculation.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I don't want to go back to the shop because it's
kind of far.
So yeah, so I'm going to carryeverything with me.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I'm like, okay, get them a cart you know, get them
something put a central station,somewhere that has a lot of the
tools so they can get access.
It's not the walking.
The ergo to me is the belt, butthe reason is because they
don't want to walk so far.
So put a central station like amini.
We got toolboxes at the top ofthe house, the bottom of the
(12:34):
house, my barn.
Why?
Because we don't want to walkall the way over there.
So I don't want to carry thetools.
So that ergo assessment is notabout the weight they're just
carrying.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Go back and figure out why.
Why are we doing it?
Why?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
are they doing that task, and talk to them, say why
do you not want to walk backthere?
And they tell you, because I'venever seen anybody going way
all the tools they're carryingand saying, well, you're over
the limit, you can't take that.
Now, you know so that you haveto manage that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
The and I don't think we're suggesting you do that no
but we're just sayingrealistically that's your ergo.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
It is a lot of weight , it's the travel.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Especially for someone who is not used to doing
that.
There's going to be some backpain there.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Absolutely All right, and my last one's here If you
do any kind of hose handling,daytime, nighttime, the number
one thing I tell everybody is Awhen you carry a hose at the end
of your shift, you're the tires.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You're the most sore Most of the time, yeah, when
you're putting it away.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But the ergo evaluations are always about
doing the work during the shiftand most of my injuries come the
last 30 minutes from takingthat 200-foot heavy hose that is
uncontrolled.
What size and length and weightthere are per location?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, or is it two people?
Is that one person, you know?
Should it be two peoplecarrying it?
Do?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I put it in a pallet?
Do I put it a combo?
What did I do?
Because that's cause so.
So don't look at ergo as asjust the shift, and I'm doing
that job 40 times.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It goes back to it's personal to a certain degree too
, we can all handle differentthings in terms of weight and at
the end of shift.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
there's only certain people that do that task.
That's what you're evaluating.
You're evaluating that you'rethe tiredest.
I'm 5'8".
I'm carrying 150 foot of hosethrough a plant that's trying to
get running and it's wet, and Imight be eight.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm carrying 150 foot of hose through a plant that's
trying to get running and it'swet and I might be having stairs
.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
That's my injury slash ergo site, because that's
when the weight and the problemsI'm having are really affecting
me.
Yeah, it was bad all night, butthat's when it ramps up that
next level.
Yep.
So what can I do to injure anowl?
So, to close here today, theseare our opinions opinions.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Please do a third arrest assessment.
Yep, and if you want some morestuff on ergo, you know, yes, we
have done some hazardevaluations, some ergo stuff.
You can kind of see what we doand some of the services we
offer over at allen-safetycom.
You can check us out on any ofthe socials joe allen and jen
allen on linkedin.
You can follow us there.
Otherwise, at allen safety llcis our handle on pretty much
everything.
So youtube um facebook yeah, wedo have.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
We do have a YouTube channel, don't we?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We do have a YouTube channel.
So you can check us out onFacebook, instagram, tiktok, all
the things, and let us knowwhat you think.
Drop us a like, share this ifit helped you, and well, I think
that's it.
We'll see you next time Thankyou everyone.
All right, take care podcast.
If you're looking for morein-depth discussions or
(15:22):
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Thank you so much for yoursupport.
Thank you.
This week's episodes is ergo a waste of money.
Is it worth your money?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Maybe, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I don't know.
We're going to figure it outtoday.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We're going to work through it.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Here we go All the time.
People say to me ergo's great,ergo's bad, do we need ergo?
All I hear from plant to plantis we have ergo first.
I think we determine is whatare we even talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
because I think that this is a really, really good
one.
So we're getting ready to starta cost series as it relates to
safety.
So how do we manage cost andsafety?
Where do we find that costsavings for the continuous
improvement we're looking foreveryone's budget conscious and
you guys asked for us to coversome stuff on ergo.
We're going to start with ergobecause that is a big one and
it's usually the thing thatfalls off when we start getting
(00:50):
shorthanded and we get behind onstuff we usually don't do, ergo
stuff, so let's talk about it.
Is that important or not?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
All right.
So the first one is I don'thave an ergo problem at my plant
because we have turnover, so Idon't have to worry about it.
That's what I hear all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, so I guess it really is dependent on what you
manufacture, what your businessis, Because I can tell you on
the poultry side that is some ofthe most frequent cases we see
are new employees because wedidn't do the rampant at all.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Maybe they caused the turnover.
Yeah, we didn't do it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So we've got the turnover because of the high
piece counts or we didn't do thework hardening, but we had a
lot of ergo issues on thepoultry side that we've seen
because they just it's veryphysically demanding.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I thought the cow hide his.
Ergo, I saw poultry.
I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh yeah, I saw poultry.
I'm like, oh no, oh yeah, thetwisting and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
There's a lot different on the poultry side.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I think the first thing we want to do is really
kind of expand what we considerergonomics right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh, I palletize.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So it's more than just.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I do count with a knife.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it's more than.
The three top things.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, we want to expand our view past its
palletizing box makeup and wefix it by getting a new conveyor
.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And knife handling jobs right?
What could be presenting anissue that's past the production
floor?
What about the outlying jobs?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Our company Ergo.
Eight hour, 10 hour, 12 hourdrive, that's our Ergo.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Or standing for 10 to 12 hours.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Absolutely, or we got gotta do six hours yeah, we're
out in the weather.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean, those are, those are our argo yeah, so I
think part of it is anythingthat's extreme one direction or
another, absolutely including.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It could be both sides of the spectrum so
anything that's really hot,really cold, anything that's
standing or sitting forprolonged periods I get promoted
when I'm handling chemicals, sonow I'm the one that does all
the heavy lifting with themassive, massive beginning.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm the one, not the end user.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
The end user's got the small container and they
roll it around.
I'm the ergo one, but it lookslike they would have the ergo
because they're actually doingit more, but their risk is lower
than mine.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Because they're not able or allowed maybe at that
facility to mix or titrate.
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And it's the weight of it, it's the containers, but
I'm still doing it every night.
I may have to do it 100 times anight, but I'm doing 50.
Yeah, so that's the weird stufflike that, so people do get
caught up in.
Well, it's small, you do it 100times.
It's a lot, yep, all right, sohere's one that gets me.
So I travel a lot.
Everybody knows that.
New plants all the time.
A lot of times I go there forthree hours, five hours, five
(03:27):
days.
I don't know, but I will tellyou.
You put a hard hat on me and Iwill tell you instantaneously if
I think that hard hat feelsgood or not, in about 15 minutes
to eight hours.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Because, ergo, it's quite a time span.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
But the point is ergo .
People will say well, they worethis PPE for days, there wasn't
a problem.
But some people like when I'mnew, I can feel it so as a new
hire.
The new hire, if you put PPE onthem you don't have to worry
about ergo with them, becausethey're going to tell you it
feels weird and they're alreadyhaving problems.
So now making them wear thewrong size PPE or the wrong hard
hat, the wrong glove, thatcould be your ergo from day one.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think part of it is so in our industry we have to
have PPE that meets a multitudeof needs.
Right, We've got to meet thefood safety stuff.
We've got to meet the safetystuff.
You know, some of it is becauseof the maintenance teams or the
chemical handling.
So there's a lot going on thateach item has to meet specific
standards for expectations forright.
But I think it's reallyimportant to remember.
(04:23):
First, it's PPE.
We're all built a littledifferently, correct, so some
things that are going to causepressure in different parts, I
mean it should be.
I get to select.
That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We select hearing protection.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, there's pre-approved styles that we are
aware that meet the needs thatwe have, and then they get to
pick because, again, everybody'sshaped different.
I'm very cognizant of thisbecause, as a female.
Most ppe in my past it's gettingbetter now but most
historically has been made for amale and so it's all way too
(04:54):
big.
Which is constantly with thegloves.
Why is every pair of glovessize large or extra large?
Why is every pair of boots thatI get not fitting me?
That's a trip hazard.
That's a slip hazard.
It's also weird on my legs.
When I'm walking around foreight hours on a production
floor it hurts my calves and mylegs because I'm having to do
something weird with my feet tokeep them from falling off when
I'm moving around.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So it could be the thickness of the clothing, like
thick pants, like arc flash you,you put arc flash on jen, so
jen got some arc flash gear yeah, I've got a lot of cat too
stuff yeah, and you know the arcflash I was wearing at the
plants was super thick.
Well, it weighs on you all daylong and it's hot.
She was able to give herdifferent styles, so she had the
same flash hazard reduction,but from an argo side mine is
(05:35):
way heavier and way harder, eventhough you would think in the
old days that was backwards, butnow she has a better outfit
yeah, I do well, and that's thething.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So I think it's really important, especially in
the PPE side, that we don't geareverybody up to prevent the
injury, just to cause it.
On the ergo side, I mean, I'mthinking of even like my farms
if we've got coveralls at myfarms that are too big and we
keep adjusting all the time.
You know it's weird all daylong and that can be, even if
it's not necessarily an ergoinjury because of that constant
(06:06):
adjusting of stuff, that canstill cause an injury in other
ways too.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I also look at, ergo, some of the repetitive, so
not just repetitive, as indoing the task but that I catch
my eye, if I see them.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Completely yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So here's the, here's the one.
Forklifts Right?
Okay, you told me that if Idrive a forklift I got to face
Ford when I drive it, so I don'trun over everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But you also told me, as a safety manager plant you
can't drive with a bunch ofpallets because you can't see
around.
So now you got to drivebackwards or forward.
Yeah, that forklift.
You never gave me a chair toturn around.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, see your neck my whole day on.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
The forklift is turned yeah, my whole day
because the safety pause.
So, yes, ergo man, not a cot.
That was an issue, but it'sforcing me from the safety side
because I'm carrying these eightor nine pallets, I'm always
turned backwards absolutely sonow I'm always sore.
I'm Absolutely so.
Now I'm always sore, I'm alwaystilted, and now it's hard.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It's hard for me all day long.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
That chair is not made to do that, right, right.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So that's one of our ergos, so that's one of our
ergos, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So another one is everyone has a top 10 for ergo
and they say here they are,we're going to do knife handling
, we've got this, we've got that.
That's great.
But what I look for is how manyof the top 10 reduce the risk
and I get a money payback on yes.
So what I look at Ergo is Idon't look at Ergo as a $50,000
machine that fixes the problem.
(07:30):
I look at what, when I'mputting a plan in place Ergo,
what is the thing I can get themost payback on?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And then, as I do, that, it seems to be easier to
sell the ergo idea.
So if I say, look at production, that's right.
Look at the labor's not as badand the piece count has went
down or maybe it's the weight isreduced.
So that's how I look at ergo.
Yes, and I know that's thingsyou're supposed to do, but
realistically, we've worked inplants where it just doesn't
happen.
(07:58):
So I think when you're lookingat Ergo overall and you're
saying, is it worth my money ornot, you've got to look at ROI,
you've got to look at how thatand then sell that.
If you're the safety manager orthe Ergo manager, sell it, look
what I can do and how it helpsus out.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, and I think a big thing that you can evaluate
if you are a facility that'sexperiencing a lot of turnover
is that the jobs that you'reseeing the most turnover in.
That might also have acorrelation to ergo and if it
does, you're seeing lots ofturnover and you have ergo
issues with it.
That might be a good one tolook at automation on.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Absolutely All right.
Another one I look at is workdesigns.
So I don't look at work designas in where I'm doing the task
in front of me.
I look at the work design ashow many times I have to go
around the area I'm working andhow many other steps I gotta do.
So maybe my ergo is not myshoulders.
My ergo is my feet, alwaysstepping and twisting over a
(08:53):
pipe or like a cry back.
You got the discharge side andalways stepping on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
How many times am I stepping over this weird drain?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and I'm getting this piece of plastic every
time and I'm always leaning overto do it.
That's the stuff that sometimespeople miss when they look at
ergo, because they'll evaluatewell, I stand to do the job this
way, well.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I think that's exactly it.
So the ergo assessment isdesigned to say what is this job
task?
I'm going to watch their jobtask, but we're not evaluating
the environment sometimes to see, yeah, but in order for them to
do their job tasks, this otherstuff is weird over here, right.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I use that time.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Every time a forklift comes in or every time somebody
.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
They have to move to the left a couple of weeks, so I
use that ergo assessment asthat.
What can I engineer out aroundthe person in their working area
to have less ergo other issues.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, out around the person and their working area to
have less or go other issues?
Yeah, can we adjust their theirwork setting so that they're
not having to bend, twist, walkall?
All over the place and andcarry this stuff at a weird
angle.
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So that reduces my injuries, it makes my profit go
up, yeah, and it gets rid of mymy maintenance always
complaining that something'salways getting kicked or
something's always getting looseStood on or whatever.
Well, it's because that designof that workstation isn't right.
So I will use the ergoassessment, but as I do that, I
will look at all the otherthings.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And if I can engineer out those other controls, I
actually can lower my hazard.
You start looking at do I havean ergo job potentially, and you
evaluate well, what's my repairand maintenance like in this
department and if I start seeinga lot of weird repair and
maintenance stuff that'srepetitive from production
employees doing a certain task.
So maybe it's standing onsomething or stepping on
something.
Well, that would be a greattrigger for me to look at.
(10:35):
Hey, I can get a little bitsafer environment for my
employee and I can also reducereduce my my repair maintenance
costs too.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Right, so I so that's your ROI, yeah.
So when I look at ergo, whetherit's a cost or not, I use it in
different ways when I'm doingthose assessments.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, so really it's an environment evaluation and a
hazard evaluation.
It's not exclusively just am Ibending and twisting and have
lots of repetition, it's abigger thing.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I'm looking for everything they're doing that
day and I'm also looking at.
The last part is I'm looking atif that person's gone and we
have someone called vacation, soJoe's the fill in for your job
whenever you were gone.
Mm-hmm you had an ergoassessment the way you did it
and I'm throwing it in theretomorrow and I haven't done it.
In six months my ergoassessment is going to be
(11:24):
completely different.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So you've got to calculate that people are going
to take vacation, people aregoing to take days off and
someone's going to fill in.
So I have two ways.
I have the ergo, how theynormally do it, yep.
And then I'm like, okay, butsix months going to come in and
be able to do it, just like that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And it's and it's goes back to that turnover issue
, because that's something verysimilar to bringing a new
employee.
If they haven't been doing itfor six months, to me they're
basically a new employee.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Absolutely For that job.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
For that job they don't have that, that buildup of
that works, hardening, correctTo help them out to prevent that
injury.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Here's another ergo one.
I'm a maintenance person at aplant and they give me the
biggest belt I can carry with asmany tools possible and there's
no weight per tool calculation.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I don't want to go back to the shop because it's
kind of far.
So yeah, so I'm going to carryeverything with me.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I'm like, okay, get them a cart you know, get them
something put a central station,somewhere that has a lot of the
tools so they can get access.
It's not the walking.
The ergo to me is the belt, butthe reason is because they
don't want to walk so far.
So put a central station like amini.
We got toolboxes at the top ofthe house, the bottom of the
(12:34):
house, my barn.
Why?
Because we don't want to walkall the way over there.
So I don't want to carry thetools.
So that ergo assessment is notabout the weight they're just
carrying.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Go back and figure out why.
Why are we doing it?
Why?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
are they doing that task, and talk to them, say why
do you not want to walk backthere?
And they tell you, because I'venever seen anybody going way
all the tools they're carryingand saying, well, you're over
the limit, you can't take that.
Now, you know so that you haveto manage that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
The and I don't think we're suggesting you do that no
but we're just sayingrealistically that's your ergo.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
It is a lot of weight , it's the travel.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Especially for someone who is not used to doing
that.
There's going to be some backpain there.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Absolutely All right, and my last one's here If you
do any kind of hose handling,daytime, nighttime, the number
one thing I tell everybody is Awhen you carry a hose at the end
of your shift, you're the tires.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You're the most sore Most of the time, yeah, when
you're putting it away.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But the ergo evaluations are always about
doing the work during the shiftand most of my injuries come the
last 30 minutes from takingthat 200-foot heavy hose that is
uncontrolled.
What size and length and weightthere are per location?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, or is it two people?
Is that one person, you know?
Should it be two peoplecarrying it?
Do?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I put it in a pallet?
Do I put it a combo?
What did I do?
Because that's cause so.
So don't look at ergo as asjust the shift, and I'm doing
that job 40 times.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It goes back to it's personal to a certain degree too
, we can all handle differentthings in terms of weight and at
the end of shift.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
there's only certain people that do that task.
That's what you're evaluating.
You're evaluating that you'rethe tiredest.
I'm 5'8".
I'm carrying 150 foot of hosethrough a plant that's trying to
get running and it's wet, and Imight be eight.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm carrying 150 foot of hose through a plant that's
trying to get running and it'swet and I might be having stairs
.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
That's my injury slash ergo site, because that's
when the weight and the problemsI'm having are really affecting
me.
Yeah, it was bad all night, butthat's when it ramps up that
next level.
Yep.
So what can I do to injure anowl?
So, to close here today, theseare our opinions opinions.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Please do a third arrest assessment.
Yep, and if you want some morestuff on ergo, you know, yes, we
have done some hazardevaluations, some ergo stuff.
You can kind of see what we doand some of the services we
offer over at allen-safetycom.
You can check us out on any ofthe socials joe allen and jen
allen on linkedin.
You can follow us there.
Otherwise, at allen safety llcis our handle on pretty much
everything.
So youtube um facebook yeah, wedo have.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
We do have a YouTube channel, don't we?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We do have a YouTube channel.
So you can check us out onFacebook, instagram, tiktok, all
the things, and let us knowwhat you think.
Drop us a like, share this ifit helped you, and well, I think
that's it.
We'll see you next time Thankyou everyone.
All right, take care podcast.
If you're looking for morein-depth discussions or
(15:22):
step-by-step solutions on all ofthe different safety and
regulatory topics, please visitus at wwwallensafetycoachingcom
for web-based virtual coachingand training, or at
wwwallensafetycom to book ourteam for onsite services,
training sessions to ordermerchandise, to learn more about
our team and what services weprovide in the field, or just
(15:43):
simply to request a topic for usto cover on our next podcast.
If you found today's podcasthelpful and would like to
support our podcast further,please help us by subscribing,
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