The Ultimate Thyroid Episode: Everything Your Doctor Hasn’t Told You with Dr. Amie Hornaman - SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 285 - Sandy K Nutrition - Health & Lifestyle Queen

Episode Transcript
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Sandy Kruse (00:02):
Hi everyone, it's me, Sandy Kruse of Sandy K
Nutrition, health and LifestyleQueen.
For years now, I've beenbringing to you conversations
about wellness from incredibleguests from all over the world.
Discover a fresh take onhealthy living for midlife and

(00:26):
beyond, one that embracesbalance and reason, without
letting only science dictateevery aspect of our wellness.
Join me and my guests as weexplore ways that we can age
gracefully with in-depthconversations about the thyroid,

(00:49):
about hormones and otheralternative wellness options for
you and your family.
True Wellness nurtures ahealthy body, mind, spirit and
soul, and we cover all of theseessential aspects to help you
live a balanced, joyful life.

(01:10):
Be sure to follow my show, rateit, review it and share it.
Always remember my friendsbalanced living works.
Remember my friends, balancedliving works.
Hi everyone, welcome to Sandy KNutrition, health and Lifestyle

(01:31):
Queen.
Today with me, I have a specialguest.
Her name is Dr Amie Hornamanand she hosts the top-rated
podcast in medicine andalternative health, the Thyroid
Fixer, with listeners all overthe globe.
She is the founder of theInstitute for Thyroid and
Hormone Optimization, anorganization with

(01:53):
transformational, provenapproaches to addressing thyroid
dysfunction and supportingpeople in their returning to
full health.
They're returning to fullhealth.
Dr Amie is also the creator ofthe Fixer supplement line, which

(02:14):
I can't wait to talk about thatwhich offers revolutionary
proprietary supplements that arechanging many people's lives.
Dr Amie is a woman on a missionto optimize thyroid patients
worldwide and give them theirlives back, and today we're
going to talk all about thyroidoptimization from a functional
perspective, and it's verydifferent from a Western

(02:36):
medicine approach, and everybodywho's listening you guys know
how much I love to talk thyroid.
So with that, welcome, Dr Amie.
Thank you for coming.

Dr. Amie Hornaman (02:48):
Hey Sandy, my pleasure for being here.

My pleasure, yeah, so of course I'm going to ask
you why are you so passionateabout thyroid health?

Well, because of my own pain to purpose story
, like many of us, have thatland in this space right.
So, and like many thyroidpatients, many of your listeners
, I was misdiagnosed, and I wasmisdiagnosed six times.
So this my symptoms startedoccurring about 20, some years
ago and at that time I wasgetting ready for a bodybuilding

(03:20):
competition and I was doingfigures.
I was on the feminine side, butyou still had to prepare by
pretty strict dieting.
You know fish, chicken,broccoli, asparagus.
You're going to the gym once,if not twice a day really, with
the goal to get your body into alean athletic, but yet you know

(03:41):
shapely and muscular, low bodyfat state, and then you step on
stage in a bikini, whichactually, when I say it out loud
, sounds a little bit crazy.
Probably is, but I really likedthe challenge back then.
I really liked that challengeof getting my body into that
particular state and thencompeting.

(04:02):
So I had done many of these.
I did so many shows, so manyphoto shoots, that I dieted down
for this one particular show Iwas getting ready for.
That is when my body rebelledagainst me and I didn't know
what was happening at the time.
I had to step on the scaleweekly to report back to my
coach, because we all need acoach.
Can't think for yourself whenyou're doing these things, can't

(04:24):
think for yourself on aday-to-day basis about what
you're eating, right?
Yeah, and I would report backto him.
And every week the scale wouldgo up, and I mean five pounds,
10 pounds.
Then I'm up 15 pounds and Ididn't know what was happening.
Like I'm, I'm I'm blamingmyself, I'm thinking maybe I'm

(04:45):
eating too much, maybe I need towork out more.
And then you start taking this,this judgment thing on, like
everybody at the gym is judgingme oh my God, they're looking at
me, thinking, oh, she must beeating the donuts.
Maybe my coach is thinking I'mnot even following his plan, I'm
totally going off the rails,when in reality I was doing
everything and then some.

(05:05):
So by the time that scale hit25 pounds and I'm 5'2".
Me too, right?
Yes, so I always tell peoplewhat if I were to go get a
weight, a 25 pound weight, andstrap it around your back and
tell you, go ahead and walkaround with this all day long,
you'd be like you're crazy, myback's going to hurt, I'm going

(05:31):
to be tired.
Well, that's exactly what wefeel like when you strap on an
extra 25 pounds.
It's not even.
No, it doesn't work.
The body doesn't like it and mybody was literally rebelling
against me.
There was nothing I could do tostop the weight from coming on,
nothing.
So what I did do is what we alldo.
I went to my doctor and I wentto my doc and I said listen, doc

(05:52):
, here's what's happening.
Oh, by the way, I'm reallytired and my back hurts too and
my hair's falling out.
Can you tell me what's going onwith me?
He says you're normal,everything's fine.
Sandy, I wish so badly I couldgo back and see the labs that he
ran on me, because I guaranteeyou it was TSH and free T4,
right, there's no way he ran allthe labs.

(06:13):
No way, no.
So you know, I did the wholesecond opinion thing.
I left there and I wasfrustrated, but not hopeless yet
.
So I went and I said okay, I'mgoing to get a second opinion.
I went to doctor number two andI was told it's all in your
head.
So then I left there and wentto doctor number three, and then

(06:34):
four, and then five, and thensix.
Doctor number six actuallytouched my throat and said
swallow.
I was the first doctor, firstdoctor to lay hands on my
thyroid gland and she says well,you have a goiter, I'm feeling
something in there.
We're going to get anultrasound done.
But to me it appears as if youhave Hashimoto's.

(06:57):
Here's a pill.
And I mean I was excited.
I left her office.
I'm like, thank God, somebody'sfinally telling me what's going
on.
Now I have a diagnosis, now Ihave a name for it and I have a
pill for it and everything'sgoing to be fine.
And then I gave it five monthsand it wasn't fine and I didn't
lose a pound and I didn't feelbetter and my hair wasn't

(07:17):
growing back.
Everything was just continuingdown the downward spiral.
Along with my mood, myfrustration, self-blame,
self-loathing definitely came on.
I would cry in my car, I wouldpray for a different answer and
then, sure enough, I kepthearing the name of this

(07:40):
functional medicine guy and youknow, when you hear the name of
somebody a couple differenttimes, like three times, right,
it's God, it's the universe,whatever your belief system is
telling you and speaking to you,and you kind of pause and you
go okay, okay, okay, I willlisten.
I've heard this name threetimes, now I will go.

(08:01):
So I went to see this functionalmedicine practitioner and
actually back then we didn'teven use the term functional.
I want to see this functionalmedicine practitioner and
actually back then we didn'teven use the term functional.
I want to say it wasintegrative, it was naturopathic
, so he was a naturopathicdoctor and he had his pharmacy
degree, he was an alternativepractitioner, he had all these
degrees.
The most important thing is hesat down with me for 90 minutes

(08:23):
and that was 5 million timeslonger than any conventional
doctor had ever spent with me.
Right, you go into conventionalmedicine it's a five to seven
minute visit and then you're outthe door.
So he spent 90 minutes.
He went over my labs.
He drew labs for everything Imean, I had 10 vials of blood
coming out of me sat down withall my labs, painted this

(08:44):
picture and said, oh look, thisis low over here and this is
high over there and this is whatit means, and I know it's still
in the standard lab value range.
But because of this and becauseof that, because of your
symptom, here's what's going onwith you and here's what we're
going to do to fix it.
So we're going to change yourthyroid medication.
I was given, of course, t4 only, which doesn't work.

(09:07):
It doesn't work.
So then he put me on armor andhe added a little bit of T3 and
he changed my supplements and mynutrition was okay, because I
was on point with that andthat's what I was telling all
the doctors.
Listen, I got the nutritionpart down.
It's everything else that'sgoing on in my body that no one
could figure out.
And he fixed me and from thatpoint on I became his apprentice

(09:31):
.
He was my mentor.
I changed careers, went back tomultiple years of school after
that and here I am helping otherpeople because it needs to be
done.
I mean, you know it needs to.
People need help and they needreal answers.
And my God, if I would havestopped at doctor number four or
doctor number five which is areally decent amount of doctors

(09:55):
telling you the same thing thatmost people would be like you
know.
I mean they've got to be right.
They're doctors, five of themtelling me I'm fine, I've got to
be normal.
I've got to be fine then, but Iwasn't.
And that's the message that Iwant to send out to everyone
that you absolutely can getoptimized and you can get fixed,
and don't ever give up.
And you just got to keepplugging away until someone

(10:17):
gives you an answer.

Yeah, I mean everything that you said just
there.
I mean everything that you saidjust there.
I can relate to so much, likeeverything you know.
And I think it's difficult whenyou keep going back because,
like you know how it is, likeyou keep going back, you keep
telling the story and I canremember exactly how I felt and

(10:43):
I can I align so much with youand it's, it's, it was for me.
It was different order.
For me it was after I had mythyroid completely removed and I
was told that I would behealthy and normal and fine just
by taking that T4 only, andeverything would be exactly the
same.
So I think it's reallyimportant to outline because I

(11:07):
don't think people understand.
I remember when I was diagnosedwith thyroid cancer this was in
2011.
I actually didn't even know howimportant my thyroid was.
I was like, okay, I know, it'ssomething in my neck, I don't
really.
I think a lot of people don'trealize how crucially important
this little gland is.

So maybe if you could outline why we should
care, everyone should care yes,absolutely, doctors should care
more and pay more attention thatit is the master gland.
So your thyroid is the mastergland of your body.
It runs the show.
I mean it controls yourmetabolism.
It controls your GI motilityand dictates whether or not you

(11:50):
poop every day.
It controls your brain function, your heart rate, your blood
pressure, your body temperature.
It literally controls yourentire body.
So why wouldn't we focus on itfirst?
Why wouldn't we?
But we don't.
In conventional medicine Instead, mainly women are hit with

(12:12):
hypothyroidism.
So I don't want to just ruleout the men, but I'll say a
woman will go in to her doctorand she'll give the laundry list
of symptoms that ishypothyroidism and she'll get an
antidepressant, a sleeping pill, a PPI, a statin.
I mean, she'll get all theband-aid, maybe even some birth

(12:33):
control, and it doesn't matterif you're menopausal, here's
some birth control, right.
We'll get every band-aidmedication under the sun instead
of focusing on the master gland.
And I'll just say one otherthing.
I gave a talk to a group ofintegrative wellness physicians
years ago and the talk wasbasically to educate them on the

(12:58):
thyroid because, even thoughthey were integrative, they
really didn't know the thyroidthey came from conventional
medicine entered into thisintegrative practice and they
were still learning.
So I was in there talking aboutall the different tests that
should be run and the importanceof reverse T3.
And then I moved over to whyare we in the synthroid box, as

(13:18):
I call it, the T4 only box.
Why are we in this box?
I said if somebody comes in andthey're depressed, you'll give
them an antidepressant.
If that one doesn't work, you'llgive them another one.
If that one doesn't work,you'll give them another one.
Then you'll stack on anantipsychotic, maybe an
anti-anxiety.
Let's throw in a benzo and asleeping pill for this person,
but you won't use anything morethan one medication for thyroid,

(13:39):
and there are plenty, and thethyroid is nuanced and we can
combine and we can change ratiosand we can go T3 only and
there's so many things that wecan do to optimize someone where

(14:00):
they wouldn't need all thoseband-aids.
The one doc raises his hand andgoes that's all we've learned
to conventional medicine.
Doctor after conventionalmedicine doctor, you're dealing
with what they have learned andwe can't expect them to do
anything different if that's allthat they know.

Yeah, I mean, that's just so perfectly put and
I'm always of the thought thatthyroid health is it's one of
those foundational things.
You got to look there becauseit is that thermostat, so it
controls everything about yourlife technically.

(14:33):
If you were to look at are youhappy, are you sad, are you hot,
are you cold, are you angry,are you right, are you jittery?
Do you have heart helps?
Do you it?
Are you jittery?
Do you have heart palps, do you?
It controls everything.
It is that thermostat, so whywouldn't you start with that as
a foundation, right?

(14:54):
So I couldn't agree more.
Now here's the other caveat tothis.
I don't know what it's likewhere you are, amy, but here we
have this range of 0.4-ish of aTSH to up to five sometimes, and

(15:16):
I know personally I feelhorrible.
If I go over 1.5 in my TSH, myhair starts to fall out, I have
what I call lingering symptomsand yet, okay, I'm different
because I have thyroid cancer.
So they will monitor in me andthey will check me.
But if you're just somebodycoming off the street going to

(15:40):
see your doctor, saying you havethose lingering symptoms, but
they only check TSH and they sayyou're normal, which is
probably what happened to you.
What then?

What are the options?
Where do you go?
Well, that's where you almosthave to move into the functional
medicine space, because infunctional medicine we take
those standard lab value ranges,so we'll take TSH.
Since you mentioned that, yeah,here in the United States it
goes up to a 4.5.
It used to go up to a 6, andthen it used to go up to a 10.

(16:14):
Way back in the day We've gotit knocked down now to a 4.5.
But in functional medicine wewant it less than a 2.
And we don't care if it'ssuppressed, because for some
reason functional medicinepractitioners actually
understand the physiology of howthe thyroid gland works and

(16:34):
what happens.
When you give someone adequateamounts of T4 and T3 instead of
T4 only, it's going to shut downthe pituitary from sending out
TSH.
That's what happens.
And when I get questions frompatients that are like well or
not, really from patients, ifthey're a patient, we're doing
it all for them.
They don't have to worry aboutgetting some BS answer that

(16:56):
their TSH is suppressed andthey're hyper.
But online, you know, on myFacebook group, if I get
messages from my audience, I sayhow do I talk to my doctor and
tell her that she doesn't haveto worry about my TSH being low,
because I feel great.
I say have her go open up amedical textbook and refresh
herself on how the thyroid glandworks in the body and the HPT

(17:20):
access, because it's basicphysiology that it seems like
conventional medicine,especially endocrin physiology
that it seems like conventionalmedicine, especially
endocrinologists totally miss.
So functional medicine has theiroptimal ranges.
And how we got these optimalranges is we said, you know,
instead of taking these labvalues and numbers from groups

(17:42):
of sick people, let's find thefit, badass, healthy people,
test them and then that becomesthe optimal range.
So I heard Mark Hyman explainthis, so I have to give him
credit for this analogy.
But it's a beautiful analogy.
The standard lab value range islike the side of a barn.

(18:02):
If I send you back 50 yards, Igive you a ball.
I say hit the side of a barn,you're.
Send you back 50 yards.
I give you a ball.
I say hit the side of a barn,you're probably gonna hit it.
If I put a bullseye on the barnwhich is the functional
medicine optimal range and Isend you back, you might hit it,
you might not.
It's gonna get a lot harder toget in that range.
But in that range is the sweetspot.
That's where we know that youwill feel your best.
Now, in there there's again,there's personalization, there's

(18:25):
nuance.
But if you're out here, ifyou're in that TSH of a four,
you're not gonna feel good, or a3.5 or a 2.5.
And then it becomes even morenarrow, like in your case.
Okay, we want it two or below,but for Sandy, she needs it 1.5
or below and that's her sweetspot.

(18:46):
And I have other thyroid cancer, post-thyroidectomy,
post-thyroid cancer patientsthat we have to keep their TSH
way suppressed like 0.005 sothat the tissue regrowth doesn't
occur.

And that's where they feel, yes, they did that
for me for the first five years.
Yes, they did that for me forthe first five years.
And interesting that you saythat Okay.
So this is kind of interestingbecause it's going way back.
But when they first removed mythyroid, I was put on T3 only
because they were giving me thethyrogen shot and they wanted me

(19:22):
to go hypo.
Right, so they wanted the drug,the thyroid drug.
You know, t3 has a shorterhalf-life, right, right, so that
I wouldn't have to be hypo foras long.
Okay, they were giving me theshot, but then that was after
that.
Then they're like okay, now youhave to go on the standard of

(19:45):
care which is T4 only, that'swhen everything, that's when
shit hit the fan.
To be honest, shit hit the fan,that's when everything.
When I was on T3, only rightafter surgery it wasn't so bad,
like I was like okay, not toobad, so interesting, because
then it was a whole otherwhatever situation it's too long

(20:08):
to explain, but I wassuppressed for five years and
virtually undetectable.
But I did have at the startsome I guess you could say some
tweakments, maybe I don't knowenergetically my body, because I
did have some heartpalpitations, I did have some
sleep issues.

(20:28):
So does that make sense to saythat maybe if you do remove the
gland or ablate the gland, thatthere may be some adjustments
before your body's going to beokay?
What do you think of that?

Oh yeah, I've spoken to many patients that
have signed on to work with meor my team and they're almost
pre-planning.
They're going okay.
I've been diagnosed withthyroid cancer.
I'm scheduled to have athyroidectomy and then I want to
start working with you and Ialways tell them okay after that
thyroidectomy.

(21:03):
And then I want to startworking with you and I always
tell them okay, after thatthyroidectomy it's going to
appear that you're fine.
You are going to be like why doI need anybody's help?
I feel fantastic Because, asyou know, you get a little bit
of a thyroid dump when theyremove your thyroid and for some
people it'll last a week.
Some people it'll last a monthwhere their thyroid hormones are
.
You're almost in a hyper state,like to last a month where

(21:26):
their thyroid hormones are.
You're almost in a hyper state,like it's like this woo, this
rush, and you're like I'm good,thank God, I got this thing out,
I feel great.
And then one to four weekslater the hypo comes on and then
it's a crash and then it's ohmy God, I feel so bad.
Oh, I'm putting on the weight.
I can't even function, I can'teven think, I can't open my eyes
, I'm so exhausted, my hair isfalling out and it's like a
switch flipped and it's horrible.

(21:47):
But that's where we have tocatch people in those early
stages.
Okay, maybe week one, you don'tquite need T3 yet, but as those
hormones start to decline andgo out of your body or get
utilized, basically now we haveto start adding in the thyroid
hormone replacement.
And honestly, and you'llresonate with this, one of the

(22:11):
things that pisses me off to noend is when a doctor, when they
remove the thyroid gland or theyuse radioactive iodine, no more
thyroid gland left.
Here's T4.
Now again, let's break out thetextbooks, doctors.
The thyroid gland produces whatT4 and oh T3.

(22:32):
So, oh wait.
Also, the thyroid gland is oneof the main conversion areas,
the main conversion gland for T4to T3.
Now you'll still get someconversion in the gut, the liver
or the peripheral tissues, weknow that.
But one of the main glands isthe thyroid gland for converting
that inactive thyroid hormoneto the active thyroid hormone.
But we just took it out and nowwe're giving T4 only.

(22:53):
Does that even make sense?
It doesn't even make sense andit's standard of care.
I mean, it blows my mind whatthe treatment is for
post-thyroidectomy patients, letalone those with a thyroid who
just aren't getting optimized,like myself, and given T4 only.
But for you guys without athyroid, my God that's.

(23:13):
I mean.
To me it's borderlinemalpractice, honestly, because
they take an oath to do no harmand you bet your butt that's
going to do harm.
Giving someone T4 only thatjust had a thyroidectomy.

Oh, amy, I mean, we'll probably go there more on
your podcast but there'sdefinitely a downstream effect
that will affect anyone's lifewhen they have their thyroid
removed.
And it's so interesting becauseyou speak with some people and

(23:47):
they're like, oh yeah, I'mhypothyroid, or I had my thyroid
removed or I had this, andthey're like, yeah, I'm fine.
They don't gain weight, they goon the T4 only, and they say
they're fine, like, why, why,why is it that you know I had to
have the complete opposite?

(24:09):
And then you hear about somepeople who are like, yeah, it's
perfectly fine.

Normal, okay, but are they fine?
So here's my question, right?
So here's a good stat for youto hold onto and use.
If you haven't heard it, Iheard this at A4M 2% do well on
T4 only 98% need T4 and T3.
Here's my argument with the 2%,though I appreciate those stats
because it really kind ofdrives the point home that we

(24:36):
need that blind.
We need T4 and T3 or T3 only.
But of that 2%, can I interviewthem?
Because I'll tell you a story.
I sat next to a woman on a planeand you know, you start talking
to, to, to.
What do you do?
What do you do?
And I tell her and she goes ohyeah, I'm on, I'm on Synthroid,
I'm, I'm doing just fine, exceptthat she was about 50 pounds

(24:59):
overweight and her hair wassuper thin.
So that's when I pause and I'mlike what is fine, it's the
person's perception, andsometimes you're sick for so
long that that becomes the newnorm.
You feel like that's how lifeis.
I must just be getting older.
So I'm supposed to not haveenergy, gain 50 pounds and lose

(25:22):
my hair.
But that's not the case.
And well, that's why you and Iare here pounds and lose my hair
, but that's not the case, andwell, that's why you and I are
here talking to people aboutthat.
But yeah, what is fine?
So I wouldn't be too upsetbecause I don't think too many
people are fine on T4 only,especially if they don't have a
thyroid.

That's a very good point, because a lot of people
ignore symptoms or they makeexcuses for symptoms, right,
like you know, a big part ofwhen I went back to college was
symptomatology, and if you'renot really paying attention and,
just like what you said, youmake excuses, you go oh, I'm

(25:57):
getting older, I'mperimenopausal, I'm, you know,
this is all just normal.
So it makes a lot of sense whatyou're saying.
Yeah, but you know, thenthere's people like us who, like
you know, I want to be dancingon that dance floor until I'm
like in my grave, like oh yeahbe vibrant, I want to feel good

(26:21):
and it's all about that healthspan and being healthy until I'm
not here anymore.
That's kind of my plan.
So there's some cases that aremore complicated and I have a
lot of conversations, mostlywith women, and they get really

(26:42):
complicated.
But what I love is when I hearpeople educating themselves.
So what about if they're on T4,t3, their TSH is a little bit

(27:07):
higher?
T3 might be free I'm talkingabout free, free T3 might be a
little bit lower.
And then they got a highreverse T3.
And reverse T3 is not evenchecked in Canada, by the way,
just so you know, I know.

You guys get screwed with that Totally.
It's horrible.
How do you end up getting it?
Don't you end up self-ordering,can you?

self-order.
When I look at my own labs andI see that my free T4 is high
and free T3 is low, I know whatI got to do.
I got to address a lot of like.
And then I always self analyzeand I go okay, what's going on?
Okay, I'm a stressed out caseright now.

(27:51):
Yeah, we need to figure thisout, sandy.
And so that's where I step backand go.
I need to practice what Ipreach.
So I kind of know, but inCanada we don't check it.
So I kind of know, but inCanada we don't check it.
So what would somebody do?
What would you do with apatient to help them if they
still have all of theselingering hypothyroid symptoms?

(28:14):
And that's kind of what theirlabs look like.

So, first things first, I want to drop the
T4.
I won't keep someone on.
Let's say someone comes in andthey're on 88 micrograms of T4
and five micrograms of T3, whichis this itty bitty dose.
It's not enough.
So automatically let's drop theT4 and increase the T3, because

(28:39):
that's going to give us ourquick win.
That's going to drop thatreverse, that's going to bring
up the free T3.
It's going to drop that reverse.
That's going to bring up thefree T3.
It's going to help the personfeel better with symptoms.
Because we know that that'swhat we have to do, based on how
that person is converting theirT4 to T3.
And of course, at the same timewe want to look at what is
driving that reverse T3 up.

(29:00):
Is it elevated insulin?
Is it estrogen dominance?
Is it iodine deficiency,nutrient deficiency?
But here's the thing Sometimesit can be a genetic
predisposition of non-converting.
So the D101 and D102 gene.
Now my story is I was put onarmor and T3 in the beginning

(29:22):
when I met my mentor Through theyears.
You know it worked at first andthen it started not to and we
started changing over.
Then we used Synthroid and T3.
And then at one point in timehe goes.
You know what?
I want you to pull theSynthroid and just go T3 only.
And I felt amazing and thereverse T3 wasn't elevated, and

(29:47):
by elevated I mean out of theoptimal range.
So we want reverse T3 below a12.
So it wasn't elevated and hesaid, you know, just pull that.
And then what I want you to dois, after a few weeks that
you're feeling good, I want youto put that T4 back in.
I go, okay, I'll do that.
Oh, I felt horrible, went hypoagain, gained five pounds in a

(30:07):
week and actually that was thefirst time that I felt what true
depression feels like.
I was like, oh, these peoplethat talk about not getting out
of bed in the morning, I get itnow.
So I pulled that T4 again andwe tried that twice adding it in
, pulled it for a week, pull itback out.
How do you feel?

(30:28):
And in doing that trial anderror, I found that I am a T3
only candidate.
It wasn't until last year,actually probably six months ago
, that I finally did a genetictest that has the D101 and D102
marker.
I always suspected it becausethere were there were no other
causes of a reverse T three andmy reverse T three wasn't even

(30:49):
elevated, but I did well on Tthree only.
So I got that test done andsure enough, I have like one
copy too.
I'm not a geneticist, I don'tknow, um, but one of my health
coaches is, so she she explainedit for me and she's like oh
yeah, you have this snip andthat snip and that's why you
don't convert.
That's what I thought all along.

(31:10):
So I know I just went down arabbit hole.
But going back to your question, I always change the dose first
and then address what are theunderlying causes.
Because if you just spend timeaddressing like okay, well,
let's keep you on this same dosewith your elevated reverse T3
and let's work on your insulinresistance and let's add in the

(31:32):
nutrient, and that's great to do, but then the person's going to
be three, four weeks down theroad going, hey, you know what I
still feel like garbage.
Can we do something here tomake me feel better?
So we know that they don'tconvert well, with an elevated
reverse T3.

You know, I do have to say the thyroid is such a
complex organ and over the last13 years I still, when I speak
with different people who areexperts, I still learn new
things.
It's like, oh wow, so nutrientsthat's a really important piece

(32:15):
to thyroid health.
So are toxins right?
So let's go through some of theimportant nutrients that are
really the basics.
What do you need to have inyour diet to have a healthy
thyroid?

So we know selenium, we know magnesium.
Now, on the selenium note, Idon't know if you see this with
your clients, but so manythyroid patients will read that
selenium is good and thenthey'll go out and they'll buy
something from Walmart andthey'll start taking 200 to 300
milligrams or micrograms ofselenium every day and they'll
overdo it and even elevatedselenium will push up reverse T3

(32:56):
.
So then that can become aproblem on the other side of the
spectrum.
But magnesium, selenium andthen this is one that we did not
talk about prior to the podcast.
I don't know how you feel aboutit.
Iodine I am a fan of iodine andI know the functional community.
The integrative community issplit 50-50 on pro-iodine.
On iodine, I'm pro-iodine.

(33:17):
I interviewed Dr DavidBrownstein.
I've read his books.
He is just beyond knowledgeablein the area of iodine and
there's just too much evidencethere for me to tell someone to
avoid iodine.
Now we start low and slow when Iuse iodine, as I do with all my
patients.
I'm not going to start you on25 milligrams Like, come on,

(33:38):
let's start with.
I like using a liquid.
I like starting off with tinylittle drops, because with the
liquid you can titrate, and Ialways tell my patients you're
going to know if you take toomuch iodine, because you're
going to feel hyper that day anddon't worry, it'll wear off.
You're not going to go into athyroid storm unless you dose 50
to 100 milligrams every day onyourself.

(33:58):
But if you're starting off withlike five milligrams, maybe
working your way up to 10, 12.5,you know, just slowly titrating
up that iodine dose, I meanthat's a beautiful thing.
It helps lower, reverse T3.
It helps the thyroid glandproduce T4 and T3.
And then back to your toxincomment.
We know that the three halidesthat are toxic to the thyroid

(34:23):
fluoride stop using the fluoridetoothpaste.
Chlorine, which is in our watersupply for sure.
So unless you can, if you can'tafford a whole house water
filtration system, for goodnesssake get something for your
shower to filter that out.
And then bromide, which is sohard to avoid.

(34:44):
You know I got a couch overthere with some pillows.
I got a rug right there, I'mwearing clothes, I'm sitting on
a cloth chair.
If you live by a golf course, Imean if you eat bread, you're
exposed to bromide.
It's a fire retardant that isactually put in our food supply.
So bromide is incredibly toxicto the thyroid as well.

(35:07):
Now what will happen if we'reexposed to these toxic halides,
which we all are?
The receptor site on the cellfor iodine can also accept those
three toxic halides.
So if you don't have enoughiodine in your system to attach
to that receptor site, what'sgoing to attach to the receptor

(35:28):
site?
A toxin?
So when we have enough iodinein our bodies, that kicks out
the toxic halides out of thatcell receptor and the iodine
takes its place instead.
So iodine is also used as adetox, and rightly so, because
it's literally protecting ourthyroid against those toxic
halides.

Yeah, I definitely align more with you.
I've heard opposite to this.
I've heard that we know that.
One thing we do know is thattoo much iodine can exacerbate
thyroid.

Yeah, yep, exactly.

I remember so long ago, amy, I was working with a
practitioner and we did aniodine loading protocol and this
was before I went back tocollege.
I'm like I just because whathappened?
I had thyroid cancer and I alsohad a breast tumor at the same

(36:33):
time.
So I did the biopsy, the corebiopsy, and that was one month
before I had my thyroid removed.
So some might say, oh,completely unrelatable.
I personally know myself, I knowmy own body, that it was
definitely relatable, that itwas definitely relatable.

(36:56):
And you know I had apractitioner who I was working
with at that time and she wouldsay, to paint the lugules on the
sore fibrocystic side, becauseit was a fibroadenoma, it was
not cancerous and anyway.
So I think iodine is definitelya crucial nutrient, not just
for the thyroid.

(37:17):
I mean I don't have the glandanymore, but I still make sure I
get enough iodine.
It's good for the brain, goodfor your breasts.
You on that that you know howmuch of the standard American
diet has.
I mean, unless you're taking ina ton of iodized salt, which

(37:39):
actually everybody's now seasalt, sea salt, and isn't sea
salt lower.

It is.
But even the iodized salt isn'tthe right kind.
So it's not like you're missingout by using, like Redmond's
real salt or sea salt oranything like that.
You really do need tosupplement with iodine.
When the government startedputting iodine iodized salt out
to help with goiter, it did helpa little bit.

(38:08):
But what we're finding inactually studying the, the, what
the body needs for iodine needspotassium, iodine iodide.
And to your point about thebreast, oh my gosh, fibrocystic
breast disease responds so wellto iodine, as do fibroids,
uterine fibroids, hair all thesymptoms of hypothyroidism can

(38:33):
be helped, I mean maybe noteliminated.
I don't want to go so far as tosay, just take iodine and you
don't need your thyroidmedication.
No, no, no.
But they can definitely help.
Like I'll start patients oniodine as we're starting them on
that optimization journey inthe beginning, and you know I
mean it's not linear.
People will get better andthey're like oh, there's my
hyposymptoms again.
So giving them that little bitof iodine, sometimes we'll hear

(38:55):
within days like, oh my gosh, Ifeel like myself again, my
brain's lighting up and I havemore energy.
So just from that alone.
So it definitely helps.
But to your point, you have tobe careful of the dose.
So yeah, what happened to youwhen you did the loading?

I forget.
You know, I think I got up tolike 50 drops, okay, something,
and it was the Lugols.
Yep, yep.

And then that's a lot, that's a lot of
drops, that's high.

And then you know, I don't recall feeling anything
major either way.
Okay, I don't recall feelinganything major either way.
And then we kind of went downto just a standardized 10 drops
every day.
And now, at this point in mylife, I'm 54 and right in the

(39:54):
very, very late, late stages ofperimenopause.
Okay, I still take iodine, eventhough I don't have the gland.
I still take it a few times aweek and a little bit of water,
a couple drops, just to ensurethat I don't become deficient.
Because I often wonder, youknow, like people don't realize

(40:16):
how poorly sourced our food isand even though I'm very
cognizant of that and careful, Ithink when people say, oh well,
I eat healthy, I don't needsupplements, I'm like you
probably do.

Yeah.

You know you might be able to get by until you're
about 40, 35, 40, and thenyou're going to see symptoms of
something.
And now we're seeing youngerand younger women and men with
issues right Like it's.
It's it's getting worse.

It's getting worse, it really is.
And it, you know, is it thetoxin?
I mean, I think it's gettingworse.
It's getting worse, it reallyis.
And you know, is it the toxin?
I mean I think it's acombination, it's the increased
amount of toxins that we'reexposed to, the increased
chemicals that we're using.
You know, I shared before wejumped on here that now I'm
living in Iowa.
Now I live in kind of a woodedzone of Iowa.
But I mean you drive anywhereand you see fields and fields

(41:14):
and fields of gold, like corncrops and soybean crops and all
of that, and what they spray onthose crops is horrendous.
I mean, yeah, you have theglyphosate, but then you have a
boatload of other chemicals andI hear the farmers around here
talking about their RoundupReady Seed like GMO Monsanto all

(41:35):
day long, Like that's whatyou're eating, that's what
you're putting in your body.
And then we have all thexenoestrogens that women, teens,
are being exposed to.
And then we wonder, why aregirls getting their period at
the age of nine?
Yeah, we're actually speedingup their aging process, we're
kicking them into puberty earlyand that's going to equal a

(41:58):
boatload of other diseases downthe road, because the body
wasn't supposed to go intopuberty at the age of nine.
It's the hormones that we'rebeing exposed to in our
environment that is causing that.
So, yeah, I agree with you, Ithink I mean we're going to see,
we're already seeing it now waymore autoimmune, way more

(42:18):
thyroid problems, way morehormonal issues than ever before
and I think it's only going toget worse.

Yeah, and allergies right.
Then there's like the allergiesare insane, like I remember
growing up.
I'm like I never heard ofanybody being allergic to
peanuts, like what.
And you know my daughter'sanaphylactic to peanuts, so she
also had eczema at birth.
So all of these things are liketelltale signs of these issues.

(42:50):
So thyroid is especiallyvulnerable to these toxins.
So people will say, well, howdo I get away from it?
We kind of touched on.
You know I'm always like good,better, best options for food.
You do what you can with youknow the budgets that you have,

(43:10):
but it's like you know, votewith your dollar, you'll get
better food, that kind of thing.
But how do you rid your body?
Like you said that you'reliving?
I know you're a biohacker, butwhat do you do to make sure that
you're not absorbing all ofthose toxins all the time?

You know, I mean you do your best.
I mean I'm very, very publicand open about not being perfect
, because I think that'simportant for our audience to
know.
And I respect the people likeBrian Johnson who have trillions
of dollars to spend onbiohacking equipment, but most
people don't, and most peoplecan't live their life minute to

(43:51):
minute thinking about what thenext biohacking tool is going to
be that they need to implement.
So will I use iodine?
Yes, I have a sauna.
Yes, finally got one this year,so I use that for detox as well
.
Do hot yoga in there, just sitin the sauna, exercise obviously
daily, just for circulation andall that.
And I do my best.
Yes, I buy organic fruits andvegetables.

(44:13):
We buy a cow from a farmer thatsays that he doesn't use
hormones and whatnot, so I haveto take him at his word.
Whatever, you do your best, butam I a hundred percent perfect?
No, you know.
No, I'm not.
There are certain shampoos thatI like that that have parabens,

(44:34):
but they really do well on myhair.
You know there's a concealerfrom MAC that I love.
I mean I'm not going to gocrazy trying to protect myself
at 100%.
If I can hit 80%, that's a win.

Oh, you and I are so aligned in that because I'm
always it's always about the80-20 rule.
Are so aligned in that becauseI'm always it's always about the
80 20 rule, and so I actuallylook at my nails so the I took
off my gel nails.

You did, you did girl.

I did it after six years of no break.
I never had a break, I never.
I wasn't one of those peoplewho would.
I didn't do the tips, but I didthe gel overlay, you know, on
my own nails.
Anyway, I took it off because Ilooked at my thermography

(45:26):
report.
I know it freaked me out, amy,because I was like, oh my God,
my nail beds are red.
And then they reported unusual,what did they say?
Thermogenic activity on my nailbeds.
I'm like, okay, I got to gotake these off.
This is my sign.
But I was having wrist problems, hand problems, so it all

(45:50):
connected to symptoms.
So it all connected to symptoms, which is why I'm always like
everybody's so bioavailably, bio, individually different, and
how it affects you would affectdifferently, different people

(46:20):
differently.
You get my point.
So I think we should move on toestrogen, because that's a big
topic and the one thing a lot ofpeople who are listening
they're perimenopausal ormenopausal and they see their
thyroid if they've already hadthyroid issues going up and down
and all around, or they developnew thyroid issues right around
menopause.
So why, how is the thyroidconnected to estrogen?

So it has a this way and that way connection
, meaning, as we said earlier,with reverse T3, you don't want
to be in an estrogen dominantstate because that could push up
reverse T3 and can really havean effect on your body's own
production of thyroid hormone.
You also don't really want tobe in a low estrogen state

(47:05):
because now you have symptomsoverlapping.
This is why I have the wholeconcept of when I treat patients
, I say we do both and Meaningyou're not going to come to me
and we're just going to dothyroid, we're going to do
hormones too.
Because if we don't look athormones, if we don't look at
insulin, if we don't look atferritin, if we don't look at
your nutrients, if we don't lookat everything, what's the point

(47:27):
in just focusing here?
All that's going to happen isyou're going to tell me okay,
yeah, I feel a little bit better, but I still have this symptom
and that symptom.
I'm so bloated, I'm stillgaining weight, my hair is still
falling out.
Well, again, let's look athormones.
And specifically when we look atestrogen, having an optimal
estradiol number is vital forlongevity.

(47:49):
So really, when we look atthyroid, it's kind of more about
the here and now we'll say it's.
I want a metabolism, I want tofeel good, I want my brain to
work, I want to be able to go tothe bathroom.
Like that's the here and thenow.
Estrogen has a little bit hereand now.
Definitely helps your brain,helps with vaginal dryness,
vaginal atrophy, helps withwater retention.

(48:12):
It definitely helps your hair.
But when we look long-term,having an optimal estradiol
level specifically is going toreduce your risk of Alzheimer's
by 67%.
It's going to protect yourbones against osteoporosis and
osteopenia.
It's going to becardiovascularly protective.
It's going to help your skinnot wrinkle and you not age

(48:32):
quickly, because estrogenprovides a baseline for collagen
and elastin production.
It does so much.
In the long term, that's yourbone, brain, breast and heart
protection with estradiol.
Now the other hormones come inand help with that too.
If we looked at the benefits ofprogesterone, the benefits of
testosterone, they're going tocross over with estradiol as

(48:54):
well, and all those are going tocross over with thyroid.
So we have to do everything atthe same time.
There are huge, huge benefitsto optimizing the thyroid,
tremendous benefits tooptimizing thyroid and hormones
together.

Yeah, it's so funny because, until my estrogen
really started to drop, I waspretty, I was coasting along,
amy, I was feeling good, I waslike you know, this is good.
And then, when estrogen dropped, it was just a kind of a shit

(49:32):
show of symptoms, and thatincluded rapid weight gain.
It included my HbA1c went up to6.1 in a matter of I think it
was six months.
So I think it was.
I just looked at this Februaryof 2022.

(49:53):
My HbA1c was 5.5.
October 2022, I started to getsome hot flashes.
I'm like, oh, is this menopause?
And then, at the same time, myHbA1c was 6.1.
So it's like and then you knowthen, the rapid weight gain, it

(50:17):
was like everything.
It was like a storm.
And I'm like is it thyroid?
Is it menopause?
What is it?
And the symptoms, like you said, can absolutely cross over,
especially if you know you havethyroid disease or if you're
chronically hypothyroid, likeyou would be if you don't have a

(50:38):
thyroid gland.
So I love that you said youstart testing everything,
because all the hormones are thesymphony and they got to work
together, are the symphony andthey got to work together.
So, okay, what would you dowith a patient like that who all

(50:59):
of a sudden started to getmenopausal symptoms like
estrogen completely crashes Likewhat do you do?
Where do you?
Even?

begin.
Let's bring in the bioidenticalhormones.
Yeah, you know, I mean, they'rea beautiful thing.
Let's replace those hormonesthat are no longer being
properly made.
Because here's the thing we nowknow.
Enough evidence is out even inthe fake news world, right, Not
just the functional world, butin the actual Wall Street

(51:29):
Journal world that, hey, itturns out that that study that
was done, that women's healthinitiative study that scared the
bejesus out of every doctor andwoman and everybody got their
hormones ripped out of theirhands.
Yeah, we were wrong.
Yeah, and now the authors ofthe study are coming out tail
between their legs going, yes,so you know, we probably didn't

(51:51):
do that really well.
So you know, you can use yourhormones again, ladies.
We now know that hormones aresafe.
We've known that forever.
The general population neededto hear that from the authors of
the WHI that ruined hormonesfor everyone so many years ago.
So now we know the hormones aresafe and we also, when we look

(52:11):
at the animal population, weknow that animals will basically
start their decline when theycan't reproduce anymore.
I mean, that's when diseasestate starts coming on, and it's
no different for us.
Hormones give us life andhormones protect us.
Just like I said aboutestradiol 67% reduction in
Alzheimer's.

(52:31):
So now we can use bioidenticalmeaning identical to what your
body made when you were 20 yearsold.
We can use hormones that aredamn near identical to that to
support your body and allow youto age truly gracefully and have
you be an amazing badass intoyour seventies, eighties,

(52:56):
nineties, and you're feelingfantastic.
So why not use them?
We have them.
Why not use them?

Yeah, I I often wonder cause I I ended up having
that was a whole other, I guess, detour cause.
I went and did, became acertified metabolic balance
coach, lost 4% total body fat,had to make changes, not to
technically really what I ate,but it was more how I ate, and

(53:25):
you're going to find this reallyinteresting because we were
talking about biohacking.
All of this happened while Iwas intermittent fasting, uh-huh
.
So this is the thing, right,but this is what I mean Like.
So I call it the maniverse, amy, because woman to woman, we

(53:49):
know that a lot of the thingsthat these big names in
podcasting and the biohackingworld and the wellness world,
these men that they talk about,they're not based on women.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree, I love Mindy Peltz.
With her, you know, Fast like agirl, her whole concept of
fasting.
But outside of her, honestly, Itell women like, please don't
listen to other influencers tellyou to fast because you're
going to tank your hormones.
And I was just at an event, um,with Ben Greenfield.

(54:28):
I've been on his show but wewere talking about that
intermittent fasting thing andhe even came out and said, yeah,
you know, this wholeintermittent fasting thing it's
ended up, you know, tankingpeople's thyroid and tanking
their metabolism and I reallydon't like women to go over, you
know, 12, maybe 14 hours in aday.
Thank you, You're the firstdude that has come out and said

(54:50):
that.
Like, thank God, somebody issaying that to these women.

Yeah, I had a feeling you would align with
that.
So, taking the thyroid, I don'tknow if there's enough research
on this, but here's just athought, because I was actually
just posting about this recently, about how everyone and their

(55:17):
mother is going on Ozempic ohGod, yep.
So I wonder, because I'm like,listen, it's like we live in
this world of easy, let's takethe easy way out.
And I'm not saying there's nota place for it, there absolutely
is a place for it.
But you're seeing a lot ofthese celebrities who might be

(55:39):
like five pounds heavier thanthey should be or they're not
eating.
So what does that do to thethyroid when they get off of

(56:03):
those drugs?

Yeah.
So I think you know, the morewe have these drugs in play and
I call them the Beverly Hillssoccer mom drug of choice for
weight loss because so manywomen are abusing it totally
that and and you know, here'sthe thing, here's the side note
is they are amazing medicationsfor those who are obese, who

(56:26):
have type two diabetes, who havemaybe even you know, some of my
patients have 50 to a hundredpounds to lose and it's going
really slow.
Or they hit a plateau and justwhen we balance out 50 to a
hundred extra pounds on the bodyand the detriment that that can
do versus the side effects ofthe weight loss drugs, we'll
take the weight loss drugs andwe'll go low and slow so we can

(56:48):
get that weight off and makethem healthier.
People who have 10 to 15 poundsto lose, that are using this
and you know we're seeing moreand more come out.
So now we know it does burnmuscle.
It burns the fat off of yourface.
There's such thing as Manjaroface and and I I played around
with it when it first came out.

(57:09):
I experimented, because I likeexperimenting on myself so I can
bring it back to my people Um,and I had to get fat put back
into my face because I look likeSkeletor.
I lost all the fat, like righthere below my cheeks, and I
became sunken in.
Now I do see women that now Icaught this long before I
started losing muscle.
But I I started seeing thesigns.

(57:30):
It was right after Peter Atiyahcame out.
It was like you know whatthey're leading muscle mass with
this stuff.
I'm like no, and then I'm likeoh, there's my mother's arms
because I'm losing muscle andI'm seeing like my skin gather.
And now I see some women thatare on these and I know exactly
what you're talking about.
They look horrible.
They have no legs, they have noass, they have no body

(57:52):
whatsoever because they lost alltheir muscle and they look at
least 15 years older than theyare and it's like, okay,
congratulations, you're lowerbody fat, but you look like
you're 80.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wonder what it does to thethyroid, because we know that
extreme diets will slow thethyroid.

I totally missed your question.
Sorry, I went off on a tangent,that's okay.

That's okay, Like I'm sure, I'm sure it would
right, Like it would slow thefunction of the thyroid.
So not only would it, not onlywould it do all those things
that you were saying, butlogically it would probably slow
thyroid function down right butlogically it would probably
slow thyroid function down right.

Oh, yeah, yeah.
Any kind of starvation mode,any kind of caloric restriction
whether it's through just sheerwill or it's through a drug that
kills your appetite any kind ofcaloric restriction is going to
shut down the thyroid.
So even if we use these GLPswith patients, I have them.

(59:01):
Make me a deal on two fronts.
Number one you're going to eatprotein like it's your job and I
don't care, if you're nothungry, you can sip a protein
shake.
So blend that protein shake upwith two scoops of a high
quality bone broth based proteinand make it 40 grams per shake.
And if you have to drink threeshakes in a day because you
can't possibly eat anything else, then you do it and you at

(59:23):
least get your protein in andeat a beef stick and eat some
Greek yogurt in between, I don'tcare, Get your protein in.
Number two you have to liftheavy, because you have to keep
on that muscle and by you know,keeping the calories up and the
protein up and then stilllifting heavy to activate the
muscle, that it helps.

(59:43):
But if people don't do that andthey go into the starvation,
yeah, it's going to tank yourthyroid.

Yeah, and then do you, what do you think of amino
acids?
Cause that's something that Ihave really, in the last couple
of years, gone on where, oh myGod, amy, you'd probably think
I'm insane, but I used to workout fasted and I'm like huh
benefit.

(01:00:11):
And then I completely changedin terms of how I work out and I
I take amino acids before Iwork out, sometimes after as
well.
Essential amino acids, notbranch chain, essential creatine
.
While I'm working out I'mdrinking Like does that make
sense to you to keep that muscle?

Dr. Amie Hornaman (01:00:34):
Heck.
Yeah, oh yeah.
I love amino acids and creatineand you know, with creatine
we're finding more and morebenefits for menopausal women,
like brain health andcardiovascular protection and
bone protection.
I mean all of these, thesecreatine benefits are starting
to come out now when really, Imean creatine has been around

(01:00:54):
for 25, 30, 40 years.
I mean I remember it again backin my bodybuilding days.
That's when you know it waskind of in play.
It was a bodybuildingsupplement.
You took it because it pushesnutrients and water into the
cell and makes you stronger,makes your muscles pump.
But now we're finding all theseother benefits of creatine too.
And yeah, amino acids handsdown, no brainer, absolutely.

Sandy Kruse (01:01:16):
Okay, we have to get into a little bit.
You did touch up on T3, onlylike how that sometimes really
really helps patients.
So we have to talk about T2.
And I had done a bit ofresearch on it.

(01:01:37):
This was a couple years ago.
So initially T4.
Then I went T4.
I went to my doctor and I saidcan you please give me a little
bit of T3?
I think I'm a poor converter.
So here I was telling him that.
He said okay, and that's wherethat all began.
Then two years ago I started alittle bit of desiccated,

(01:01:59):
because I researched thatdesiccated has T1, T2, T3, T4,
calcitonin and I'm like, okay,it kind of gives you that whole
nice little symphony of thyroidhormones.
But apparently there's not alot in desiccated, right, but
maybe talk a little bit about T2, because a lot of people don't

(01:02:22):
talk about it and I heard onedoctor's point of view.
He was very against it.

Oh, okay, you have to tell me who that is.
I'll have to look him up,because I haven't heard any
against arguments yet.

He believes you should try and get your body to
do it on its own throughnutrients.

Okay so yeah, I mean okay, yes and no.
So, to your point, it is innatural desiccated thyroid,
because the thyroid gland makesT1, 2, 3, and 4.
We just don't talk about it alot, right?
So when we're looking at, we'llsay, a 60 milligram dose of

(01:03:02):
armor or natural desiccatedthyroid NPR armor, in there
there's roughly six to ninemicrograms of T2.
So of that and I might even beshooting high that might be in a
120 dose, it might be evenlower for a 60.

(01:03:24):
But when we're looking at thestudies on T2, I mean 30 years
of research has been done onthis bad boy and really I only
started looking at it about 15years ago because it was in a
bro science supplement and I wasusing it with my patients that
were stuck on T4 only, and thisis before I gathered prescribers

(01:03:45):
in every state.
So now we can prescribe toevery state, but back in the day
we couldn't and I would havepatients come in on T4 only and
they're gaining the weight.
They can't lose the weight, nomatter what they do
nutritionally, exercise, wise,nothing.
So I would give them this broscience supplement that had this
angry, freaking name and I'mlike just trust me, just take

(01:04:07):
this, and then they come back.
They're like, oh my gosh, myenergy is finally up.
I have this nice steady energythrough the day.
It's not like a jacked up,jittery energy and I'm finally
losing the weight.
I'm like, hmm, this isinteresting.
So you start looking at theliterature and we find that T2
activates brown adipose tissue.
So that's stimulating.

(01:04:28):
It's kind of like jumping in apole plunge.
That's why we do it right Tocreate autophagy and to simulate
that brown adipose tissue,which then improves insulin
resistance.
It makes us more thermogenic,it increases our basal metabolic
rate.
So T2 will actually increaseyour RMR without doing anything
else.
Now, of course, if you add onexercise on top of that, you

(01:04:49):
know, hey bonus.
It activates ATP production atthe mitochondria level.
And really the most importantthing with T2 is that it can be
taken by anyone, thyroid problemor not.
So those who are stuck on T4,only my God, yeah, take it,
because it's going to give yousomething.
And T2 can become T3 byattaching an iodine atom to it,

(01:05:14):
so it can become T3.
It's not going to readilybecome T3.
So you're not going to take T2and take your free T3 level from
a 2.5 to a 3.5.
That's not going to happen.
But you might get a little bitof a boost, a little bit more of
T3 in your body from the T2.
But it doesn't matter becauseit's not working on the thyroid

(01:05:36):
gland itself, so it doesn't havethat negative feedback loop of
shutting down your own thyroidproduction when you take it.
So that's why average peoplewho don't have a thyroid problem
can take it if they just needto lose weight or feel better
and have more energy.
And thyroid patients can takeit too if they need to lose
weight because they're not quiteoptimized and they wanna have

(01:05:58):
more energy.
So really it works in bothpopulations.
And I'll say one other thingabout it.
Back to the burning fat versusburning muscle.
Here's the thing with T3, it'sbeautiful, I love it, I'm T3
only, like I shared, but itdoesn't differentiate burning

(01:06:19):
fat versus muscle.
It's going to burn both.
Now I mean again, eat enoughprotein, lift heavy enough.
I don't notice that I'm losingmuscle or anything like that.
But when you look atbodybuilders, they're really.
They were the OGs of biohacking, because I got to tell you they
slash.
We were trying everything onourselves long before it became

(01:06:42):
came into the biohacking worldLike peptides, sarms, you know,
growth hormone, ghrp, all of itwe were doing first.
So when it comes to losing bodyfat, bodybuilders would take T3
, they would abuse it, whetherthey had a thyroid problem or
not.
And I was watching an interviewwith one of these pro trainers

(01:07:05):
and he goes you know, I don'tlet my athletes use T3 because
they're going to lose muscle andthen they're going to come out
the other side of this show witha thyroid problem because of
the negative feedback loop.
And now they're going to comeout the other side of this show
with a thyroid problem becauseof the negative feedback loop
and now they're going to needthyroid medication.
Because I use T2?
Because it only burns body fat,it leaves their muscle alone
and it doesn't create a thyroidproblem.
I was like yay, good job, dude,thank you for putting that out

(01:07:28):
there, because I've been usingit with my ladies too, and and
it's been a miracle.
So, finally, 15 years later,with my ladies too, and, and
it's been a miracle.
So finally, 15 years later, Iformulated it myself and put it
in a non angry bro science.
So now it's in my thyroid fixer, my metabolism fixer.
But the big question I get frompeople is can I take it if I
don't have a thyroid problemLike, yeah, absolutely you can.

(01:07:49):
That's the beauty of it.
That's the beauty of it.

Oh, so I I'm obviously I'm careful about what
may potentially affect mymedications.
Mm-hmm, yep, I did do someresearch that it shouldn't
affect.

No, it should not now, because it does not
have a thymemetic effect.
It also doesn't have acardiovascular effect.
So you know, when you starttaking T3, there are some people
that are really sensitive to it.
I mean, you give them 2.5 or 5micrograms and they're like my
heart it's pounding, it's racing.
T2 doesn't have thecardiovascular effect.

(01:08:28):
So that's another way to youknow, sometimes if I do have
somebody that's really sensitiveto T3, let's ease into it,
let's use T2 for a while, let'sget you some quick wins, a
little bit more energy, someweight loss, and then, you know,
let's check your adrenals,check your ferritin, let's check
your gut, let's check all thosethings that are making you
really sensitive to T3.
And we'll try to add T3 in downthe road.

(01:08:49):
But this is a beautiful adjuncttherapy for those who can't
tolerate T3 as well.

Okay, I'm going to have to talk to you more about
this offline Cause I'm like Icause I've had so many extremes
with how I feel, you know youget jaded right.
Like you're like, oh God, like,do I want to go?
I I've even gone through acompounded stage where I was

(01:09:19):
doing a customized compoundingand they were using a pine
extract for time release and I'mallergic to pine.
Oh, I ended up going really,really hypo.
Anyway, I've had my share, amy,of symptoms, but this to me
sounds extremely intriguingbecause it's almost like when

(01:09:44):
you're doing everything else andyou go what haven't I done?
That's the one thing I haven'tdone right there, the teaching.
So that might be somewhere Ineed to go.

So I have a random crazy idea and you can
edit this out if you don't wantto do it.
But what if we kept going andmade this a joint podcast with

(01:10:19):
two parts?
Because our conversation so farhas been so fluid and like a
conversation and I love it thatI could publish that as a
podcast, part one, and now I'mgoing to take over and ask you
questions and kind of flow intothat.
Totally up to you, but I'm justthrowing it out there.

I love this idea.

Okay, okay, so you'll just have to send me
the recording.
So let's what you just said.
So I'm going to ask you aquestion now.
Okay, okay, let's go.
Okay, so you just said thatyou've had, you've been on a
roller coaster, right, so canyou get into.
And I know your listeners haveheard this, but I want my

(01:10:57):
listeners to hear this too whatis your story with cancer and
I've not dove into thyroidcancer on the show yet.
400 and some episodes, youwould think right, but what is
your story?
And then let's talk about, like, what medication are you on?
What were those highs and lows?
What are your roller coastersthat you're dealing with?

(01:11:17):
So let's discuss.

Okay.
So I can definitely now go backand say thyroid issues for me
began postpartum, after mysecond child.
So I can you know I was neverdiagnosed with anything and I
don't think I have to be becausenow in hindsight I can look

(01:11:40):
back and go okay, all of asudden I didn't have any breast
milk.
I wasn't sleeping, I was astressed out mess.
I was a complete and utter mess.
I had, you know, a lot ofpostpartum trauma and I had a
toddler as well, a husband whowas traveling.

(01:12:01):
So take all this into account.
I got really, really, reallyskinny.
I had a baby that had colic,didn't sleep for eight months
and the breast milk.
That was so weird for me, amy,because with my first child I

(01:12:24):
had too much breast milk.
I ended up getting mastitistwice.
I had plenty of breast milk.
It took me two years to loseall the weight because I had
gained 60 pounds, but I wasborderline toxemic with my first
.
So I think it started after mysecond child with undiagnosed

(01:12:48):
issues with my thyroid and Icould pretty clearly say
postpartum thyroiditis thatdeveloped into thyroid disease.
So I would have been 35 when Ihad her and I was diagnosed with
thyroid cancer at 41.
And it was an incidentalfinding.
So one day I have to go.
One year before I was diagnosed.

(01:13:09):
My daughter was diagnosed withcancer.
She was five at the time.
So compounding stress, oh myGod.
Yeah.
So I can say this is why I'malways like you know, why do
they have all of these, you know, baby visits, but nobody really
checked.
Maybe things have changedbecause this was going back in

(01:13:30):
2005.
She was born, not enough carefor the moms, not enough.
Are you okay?
Let's check all your blood work, let's check your numbers,
let's see what's going on withyou.
So I can pretty clearly saythat's where it began.
And then, when my daughter wasdiagnosed with cancer, the

(01:13:51):
stress there, and then I had amigraine with aura.
About one year after she wasdiagnosed and it was the first
time I had ever had a migrainewith aura I thought I was having
a stroke.
I'm like what's going on?
I saw my doctor it was asubstitute doctor, thank

(01:14:12):
goodness, because she was theone who ran investigative tests
and she's like this is weird.
Not many women get migraineswith aura starting at 41.
So let's do some tests.
They did a carotid arteryultrasound and found that I had
five nodules.
Nobody had ever checked mythyroid, nobody had ever
palpitated to see if there werelumps there.

(01:14:36):
Then they sent me for the fineneedle biopsy and one of the
nodules was cancerous and theysaid let's take the whole thing
out, because 80 of our patientscome back to have the other half
taken out.
So that's where it all beganokay, that's Okay.

So then you have it removed and, just like
we were talking about earlier,that thyroid dump that occurs.
So how did you feel after theytook it out?
You know?

it's so funny because right after they took it
out, I was like, hmm, not sobad, like I felt like, okay,
they took out the whole glandand then a couple of lymph nodes
just to ensure that it hadn'tspread nothing spread anywhere,
and I felt okay, and that was inOctober 2022.

(01:15:27):
I remember the exact dates.
And then in January, and I wason T3 during that time, so it
was a little bit longer, it wasa few months and I'm like I'm
not doing bad, I'm kind of in myflow.
When they took me off the T3and they made me go severely
hypothyroid to get the thyrogeninjection to make sure I had no

(01:15:50):
thyroglobulin, my TSH climbed to32.
And I honestly, amy, that waswhen I was like, oh my God, like
I felt like I was dying.
My face I actually havepictures my face I didn't even
look like the same person.
I had such severe edema.

(01:16:12):
You know they say moon phase.
It was awful, I couldn't getoff the couch and yeah, it was
not fun.

No, no, no, I know I have pictures somewhere
of my moon phase.
I've tried to dig them up but Imight have thrown them away.
When I was just pissed off whenI ran across, I'm like, oh, I
don't even look like myself, butI wish I would have kept them
away.
When I was just pissed off whenI ran across, I'm like, oh, I
don't even look like myself, butI wish I would have kept them,
because that's real and I meanI'm sure you've seen it too the

(01:16:43):
before and afters of peoplewhere you have your own, you
know, you have your ownexperience, we have our own
experience.
But really looking at someoneelse, when they have that before
and after, you really go, oh,my gosh, the face changed so
much.
And it's not about losingweight in the face, it's
literally about that edema, likeyou said.

Oh, and even the hands, and that's like a big
thing that a lot of people maybedon't talk about, but like I
still sometimes will get that.
But the swelling in the hands,you know, I couldn't put on any
rings, I was like I don't.
It was an awful feeling.
And then I had the hands.
I couldn't put on any rings, itwas an awful feeling.
And then I had the injection.
Then they're like okay, now yougo on T4.

(01:17:22):
And that's where a whole otherslew of problems began, where
everything slowed down.
And it's that whole conversionthing that we were talking about
where slowed down.
And it's that whole conversionthing that we were talking about
where I literally hadinfections that wouldn't heal.

(01:17:45):
And I don't know, I'm writingabout it in my book because I am
writing a second book.
It's almost like this.
I don't know, amy, it's like ashame, like what's wrong with
you.
And then I was sent to agastroenterologist.
I was put on a proton pumpinhibitor.

(01:18:07):
I was told I have too much acidin my stomach and it was a high
dose.
And then they told me I hadBarrett's esophagus.
So it was like it was thissnowball effect again of health
issues where I'm like, likewhat's going on?
Like I was okay on T3 only butthis all happened while I was on

(01:18:30):
T4 only while I was on T4, onlyyeah, yeah.

So then what I mean?
This is like a suspense story.
So you're on T4, only You'regoing hypo again.
Here's all the symptoms.
Yeah, what's next?

So then they started doing scopes.
I had multiple scopes.
I started seeing a naturopathdoctor.
I started to do IV because I'mlike, okay, I got to go a
different route because I wasexhausted, my hair was falling
out.
I mean, these are all thingsthat I know that you would have

(01:19:07):
heard many times over, but itwas the whole gut component that
really threw me for a loop.
Because when I started seeing anaturopathic doctor and I said
you know, he's like you can't beon these proton pump inhibitors
for a long time because it'sgoing to hurt you in the long

(01:19:30):
run.
So he tried to wean me off.
I did everything.
I went gluten-free for twoyears.
I quit coffee for six months.
We thought that the componentwas diet-related.
I completely overhauled my diet.
This is all.
Before I went back to collegeand we went off the proton pump

(01:19:53):
inhibitor for a year.
I went back to have a scope andshe said well, now you have
Barrett's esophagus.
So now, not only did you havethyroid cancer, you're at risk
for esophageal cancer.
So I went back on the protonpump inhibitor.
That was when I started readingStop the Thyroid Madness.

(01:20:14):
Maybe you've heard of that.

Yeah, yeah, classic.

And I started researching.
That's when I went back to myendocrinologist, said you need
to give me some T3.
Like I read about this I'm apoor converter.
This is what's wrong with me.
This will help the infections,because the fact is and I've
never spoken about this publiclyI had been bleeding for over a

(01:20:40):
year.
Yeah, but it was.
It was fissures.
Yeah and um, it just startedhappening where I and it was.
It was scary.
I'm like, in all honesty, like,do you swear on your podcast?
Yeah, go ahead.
I was like what the fuck?

(01:21:02):
Is this my destiny?
Am I gonna die of anal cancerlike farrah fawcett?
Is this what everyone's goingto remember me for?
Like this is what I thought washappening, amy, and so it was.
And you know, as much asWestern medicine does good in
their part, I felt like I washarmed.
I felt like this was reallydoing me harm.

(01:21:27):
Because why on earth would theythink that, just because I have
infections and bleeding and Iwas slow to healing, that this
was because I had too muchstomach acid?
Like, are you kidding me?

(01:21:48):
Much stomach acid, like, areyou kidding me?
It set me on this pace of.
I just needed to learn more.
That's when I started seeingthe naturopath doctors.
That's when I tried to wean butI'll get to the whole PPI part
and I did all this stuff andrepaired a lot of inflammation.

(01:22:09):
I started doing IV therapiesregularly just to help with
adrenal function.
So you know the Myers cocktailand high doses of vitamin C, and
it was like it was so good forme because I started to feel
better, the T3, all of that.
And then I was like, well,maybe I could go natural instead

(01:22:30):
of synthetic.
That was when I did my littletrick with let's try to compound
it.
And then that was a big failand I slowly weaned off the
proton pump inhibitor not offdown and, believe it or not.
12 years later I'm still on it.

(01:22:51):
Okay, just a low dose, very low, okay.
So what I?
I was initially on like 60milligrams, like it was.
One and a half of it was calledTecta I can't remember which
one it was and it was.
It was very high.
And then when I had myfollow-up scope, she's like oh,

(01:23:13):
looks like the inflammation hasreally gone down now.
So I'm like but I thought yousaid I had Barrett's esophagus.
So I was very confused becauseI didn't think that that was
reversible reversible, right?

I mean, we hear that it's not.
So have you tried using, likebetaine, hydrochloric acid?
I take it every day.
All that, all the things right,yeah, so I've done all that.

I've tried bitters, because then you know to
continue with the story.
I went back to college when Iwas 46 and now I'm 54.
So I went back to the Canadianschool of natural nutrition, got
my diploma in holisticnutrition.
I'm like I got to help otherpeople now Right, but the whole
thing with the PPI, it'sactually I.

(01:24:02):
I'm still looking for ageneticist, somebody who's
because I carry some weird genesthyroid genes, I also carry a
gene for CF, cystic fibrosis andI know that GERD and chronic
heartburn.
By the way, I didn't haveheartburn until I tried to wean

(01:24:23):
off the PPI.
That's the crazy thing?
The PPI, that's the crazy thing.
So I wasn't put on the PPI forheartburn.
I was put on it because I hadfissures and I was bleeding and
they said and, by the way, itnever helped it was when I went
on the T3 that things started toheal and things started to

(01:24:44):
actually repair in my body Toactually repair in my body,
interesting Okay.
Okay, so I have done everythingin relation to diet nutrition.
Still, to this day, I takebetaine, hydrochloric acid
pretty high dose like 1500milligrams with every protein

(01:25:04):
meal.
I also take a digestive enzymeand I think that's the only way
I didn't become anemic in myforties, because I was also
estrogen dominant.
I had the high you know.
I had a lot of blood clots andheavy periods.
I had all of that Right.

(01:25:26):
So I think I hacked my owndigestion.

That's beautiful.
Well, I'll connect you with myhealth coach.
That's an epigenetic humanperformance coach by far the
best with genetics that I'veever run into ever.
So we'll figure out what'sgoing on with you there.

We'll figure that out.
It's been 12 years, Amy, itwould be nice to find a solution
to.
Finally.
I'm on the smallest dose now.
I'm on what is it?
20 milligrams ofover-the-counter Nexium now,
Okay.

And then what's your dose of thyroid then
?
What are you on right now?

So I am on two different doses of Synthroid.
I think it's.
Is it 125 and 112?
Five days a week I take thehigher dose, weekends I take the
lower dose.
I take 15 milligrams, or is itmicrograms?

of desiccated oh, so that'd be milligrams of
the desiccated Yep.

And then I take two and a half micrograms of
Cytomel twice a day and it's sofunny.
Talking to my endocrinologist,he's like I do not have any
patients.
I have one other patient, onlyone that he gives T3 to, but no
other patient that's on such acomplex mix.
But it's like it's my mix.

(01:26:54):
It makes me feel good and I'mgood with managing.
Obviously I take handfuls ofsupplements.
I can manage my medications noproblem, so it's a good mix.
It's custom, very custom.

It's very custom, but that is the thyroid,
like we talked about earlier.
It's nuanced, it's personalized.
You have to figure out what isgoing to work for your body and
then, I'm sure, all the thingsthat you're doing too.
So what is your?
Go into your kind of personalrepertoire with supplements,

(01:27:30):
that you don't have to gothrough all of them, because I
know we have boatloads ofsupplements in our house, you
and I.
So what are your mainsupplements that you like to
focus on and what do you do foryour body like biohacking
nutrition?
Let's kind of break that down.
So.

I found that, like I was explaining in the first
part, in 2022, I became.
I don't like labels, but ifsomebody wanted to label me,
they could say I was insulinresistant.
Okay, yep, it was for a veryshort time.
As soon as I saw it, I caughtit.
So I I eat three meals a day,five hours apart.

(01:28:11):
Amy, I do not snack, and theonly time that I find my weight
creeps back up again is if Idevelop a new habit.
So last year I started having ano sugar matcha every day and I

(01:28:32):
gained four pounds just likethat because it was like another
freaking meal.
And then I'm like, holy shit,this is why I'm gaining weight.
Then I stopped that.
That kind of put me off track.
Otherwise, I've been able tomaintain.
I do take a glucose stabilizer,so I've been using.

(01:28:52):
It's out of it's out of Sweden.
It's called Sigrid and it's asilica nano nanoparticle, yeah,
and they've actually done whitepapers on it.
In comparison to metformin,highly effective.
So I do do that.

(01:29:13):
And then my estrogen can kindof play games with me right now,
in the sense that my estrogencompletely tanked recently and I
put on four pounds just likethat again.
So I'm like okay, here we goagain.

(01:29:34):
It's, like you know, withhormones.
It's just like what you weresaying in the first part it's
always about the mix of all ofit together.
So, even though my thyroidmight've been functioning okay,
what was going on with my otherstuff?
So I do not ever snack anymore,and that's how I manage my

(01:29:57):
weight.
And I eat three meals.
I start with protein.
I know there's other glucoseexperts that say start with your
veg.
Nope, no, it's protein.
Protein is just such a good andit's such a good foundation.
It's like a buffer for when,when I eat.
So I'll even, like you know,I'll have dessert, I'll have

(01:30:22):
whatever, but I will not have ittwo hours later because that's
me calling on insulin once againto say, hey, come lower my
glucose, and then I run intoproblems.
So I found that this isextremely helpful and maybe it's
helpful for other thyroidpatients who have trouble with

(01:30:42):
weight loss.
Like you know, we were sayinglistening to all these people
who say fast and fast, I'm like,no, technically I'll do an
overnight fast of 12 hours, butI don't do more than that.
Right, and then supplements, ohmy God.

I take a lot.
All right, wait, we'll stay onthe nutrition, because the more
we talk, the more I'm saying thesame thing in my head, like, oh
my God, we're so aligned Likewe're, we're so aligned in so
many things.
So, on the nutrition piece andI love that you're doing the
three meals a day, I love thatyou do protein first.
That's yes, I'm in totalagreement with that.

(01:31:18):
How much protein are you takingin?
And, because you were insulinresistant, what are you doing
with your carbohydrates?
And what do you like to do withyour clients that you see, like
, listen, you're insulinresistant.
And of course we we don't knowif it's the thyroid causing the
insulin resistance, like in yourcase.

(01:31:39):
You were eating great, buthere's the insulin resistance
popping up.
Oh, here it is.
Is it the thyroid that's offand it just is dysregulating
someone's insulin left and right?
Or is it that they'relegitimately eating too many
processed carbohydrates andsugars?
So what do you do with yourselfand then with your clients in
that realm?

Well, for me, I definitely have a threshold for
carbohydrates.
Threshold for carbohydratesMeaning if the majority of my
meal is going to becarbohydrates, I'm going to run
into problems.
I can't, I don't really count.
There were times that I was,you know, keto.

(01:32:21):
I was keto because I've doneevery diet under the sun since I
had my thyroid out and keto wasone of them, and I think it put
me in a really bad headspacewith counting macros, right, and
so I will try to have 25 gramsof protein with each meal and

(01:32:44):
then if I am having a workoutday.
So I'm very cognizant of what'sgoing on with my stress levels
and how much I work out.
I've been working.
I had been working out with apersonal trainer for six years.
I actually just stoppedrecently and just joined my gym.
It's just too expensive, yeah,and I'm like I know how to do

(01:33:09):
this stuff.
Why, why, why am I doing this?
So it's always been twice aweek for the last six years of
mostly strength training, and onthose days I take in more.
I take in more protein, I takein my amino acids.
I take in all of that In termsof carbohydrates, like right now

(01:33:34):
because I had put on fourpounds, just like that over a
month, and then I found out thatit was estrogen related.
My estrogen just tanked.
I am now more cognizant than Inormally would be, meaning my
carbohydrates would be a dark,100% sourdough rye bread and

(01:33:56):
I'll have like a tiny littleslice with each meal, almost
like just to ensure I get somenutrients that are going to keep
me full.
Yeah, some nutrients that aregoing to keep me full.
Yeah, you know, I, I, I changehow I eat depending on what's
going on, and right now I'mactually just kind of starting

(01:34:18):
to come back from a not greatphase of plummeting estrogen.
It's not fun.

Now, are you on bioidentical hormone
replacement or you're onestrogen?
Okay, I am.

Good.
So, but it's you know and thisis the other thing I don't know
Do you know who Dr David Rosensweet is?
Yeah, absolutely love you.
You're just a great man.
And the reason is is because heeducates women on their

(01:34:56):
symptoms, and we know that.
So here's where things couldget crazy.
We say around perimenopause.
So I had a period March 1st andI call it a baby period.
I'm 54.
So it was like three days, noteven a real period.
I didn't have to wear a tampon,but I did have to wear like a

(01:35:17):
liner so, and it was somewhatsteady.
So I call that a period.
Some say it's not, but I'm likeit was.
So here's what happens atperimenopause.
And then, when you have thyroid, I'm like holy shit, is it my
thyroid?
Is it estrogen?
I don't get it, because when Itested my estrogen, amy, it was

(01:35:43):
like I was like I'm young again.
Look at this, my FSH, my likeall of it.
It was like I was not evenclose to menopause.
This would have been, I think,end of February.
And then I had like a periodMarch 1st, right, all of March I

(01:36:03):
was okay, but then crash inApril.
Okay, but then crash in April.
So this just goes to show youhow fast things can change with
perimenopausal women, especiallyin the latter stages.
So what happened was I'm like Iwas taking my HRT and I'm like,
huh, I'm still getting symptoms.

(01:36:24):
This is kind of weird.
Maybe I'm taking too much,because Drid rosensweet does
show he has a chart where heshows that sometimes symptoms of
too much can look like symptomsof too little.
And right, maybe I need to layoff taking so much of my
hormones while I exacerbated myissues and I had the worst and

(01:36:49):
I'm like, oh my God, now I seehow bad menopausal symptoms can
get.
So in April I had all of it thedepression, the weight gain,
the inability to sleep, the hotflashes Like I had all of it,
not just a little bit of hotflushing.
You know, which is when Istarted HRT, I had just a little

(01:37:11):
bit of hot flashes, like I hadall of it, not just a little bit
of hot flushing.
You know which is when Istarted HRT, I had just a little
bit of hot flashes.
I'm like, okay, I'll be fine,this was not good.

Yep, I know, that's what happens.
That's what happens.
So, no, I love, I love Rosensweet because he has the same
kind of outlook as Dr LindsayBerkson.
So if you've never interviewedher or listen to her same thing,
and she always references Rosensweet, I think they have done
collaborations and whatnottogether.

(01:37:39):
So okay, so what, what did youdo then?
Did you change your, your doseof estradiol and then the
symptoms went away?
Or where are you at now withyour hormones?

So I actually my doctor went on mat leave so I
found a new practitioner here inCanada.
It's not that easy to find, solet me make that clear, if any
kids are listening.
There is a place called Scienceand Humans.

(01:38:13):
That's relatively newer.
They do bioidentical hormonesand all they do is longevity,
menopause, andropause, that's it.
They're in Canada.
Andropause, that's it.
They're in Canada.
So I saw them, had blood work,found out that in fact it was

(01:38:39):
definitely not too high.
It was like crashed and theydoubled my dose of progesterone
and estrogen and so that I'mjust starting to come back.
To be honest, it's only been acouple of weeks and I'm just
starting to come back from thatcrash, because women can crash.
I felt the crash.

Amy.
Well, you know, what I loveabout your story is that you are
really sending the messageagain of just being real.
And also, here you are.
You're a thyroid expert, youdeal with nutrition, You've been
dealing with this for years,You've been optimizing yourself
for years and something shiftedand it was like, oh, here I got

(01:39:21):
to change things up again.
Here's some symptoms again.
And I always try to tell myaudience and my patients
progress is not linear and justbecause we have you optimized
today doesn't mean that you'regoing to be optimized a year
from now because you're, or, inyour case, a month from now
because something can shiftdramatically.

(01:39:41):
Something just changes.
Number one we're women withhugely fluctuating hormones.
We're very, very, we're muchmore complex than men and then
we just have life that occurs,and to your point, earlier.
Are you exposed to toxins ordid you have an underlying
infection that got kicked up, aviral load that shifted your

(01:40:03):
body?
Or is it just somethinghappened?
We don't know what?
Surged your estrogen to whereyou're like oh, all my numbers
are like I'm youthful again andI just had a cycle and I feel
great to literally coming downthe other side and into a deep
dark hole.
You know.
Sometimes you don't know, but Ithink your story is important

(01:40:25):
for listeners to hear that it'snot always linear and it doesn't
mean that everything you'veever done is now shit canned.
You know everything you've donehas built the foundation so
that now, I would suspect, youwill come back to your normal
self, your normal optimized self, more quickly than, let's say,

(01:40:50):
two years ago.

I agree.
And then you know, I always sayit's not like you climb a
mountain, you reach that peak ofoptimized health and then you
never have to do anything again.
It's like we're constantlychanging and you know we get a
whole new body.
What is it?
Every decade a whole new body,and so of course we're going to

(01:41:14):
always change and we have to beable to be flexible enough to
change with it but also toidentify it.
So the thing is, even in end ofApril when was it?
Mid-april?
Mid-april, both my kids movedback home.
It was a lot of stress, a lotof rejigging, a lot of stuff

(01:41:36):
going on and finding kind ofthat new normal.
That's going to be stressful.
So that kind of stuff, evenlife changes, are going to
affect you.
We're not robots, and that'sthe other thing I loved about Dr
Rosenzweig he doesn't treatpatients like they're robots.

(01:42:00):
Everybody's so unique.

Yeah, yeah.
Everyone is unique and that'sthe thing I mean.
That's what you and I try toget out.
That message to the world isyou can't do a cookie cutter
anything.
There's no cookie cutternutrition plan, there's no
cookie cutter supplement plan.
There's no cookie cutterthyroid optimization or hormone
optimization plan.

(01:42:22):
Everyone is so unique.
So talk to me.
What do you like to do withyour clients with supplements?
So kind of go into what areyour keystone supplements that
you take every day?
What do you bring in and outand what do you like to do when
you're working with people?

So, to be clear, I haven't worked with clients in a
year because I'm focusing on mypodcast.

And yourself.
So that's not bad, yeah, yeahyeah, and writing.

I just finished my Essential Thyroid Guide and I'm
writing, I call it my book, bookand it's called.
The working title is Bridgingthe Gap Between Science and Soul
, because I do believe that noteverything can be explained by
science, but science isimportant.
So, you know, I'm a little bityou're going to laugh I'm a
little bit country, I'm a littlebit rock and roll.

(01:43:16):
You know a little bit about thewoo, I'm a little bit about the
science, I'm a little bit aboutboth.
And you know, when it comes tosupplementation, I'll tell you
this story.
This is a really interestingstory.
I had one client and she was avegetarian and you know how it

(01:43:37):
is.
Sometimes you get very closeand you hear a lot of personal
stories and she was at abreaking point in her life where
, you know, she wasn't sure onwhere to go.
Let's just say she wasn't sureon where she was going in her
life.
And when I did symptomatologywith her, I had a questionnaire,

(01:44:02):
I looked at everything and I'mlike, oh my God, girl, you are
so low in methylated B vitamins,b complex specifically.

Okay.

And this is one of the foundations that I love for
clients.
Only because when you're understress, when you're not eating
well, when you you know you arehaving a diet where you are
eliminating food groups, you areprobably not optimized in your

(01:44:38):
B-complex, because B-complex iswater soluble in and out.
It's in and out, it's in fast,it's out fast.
Even with my kids.
I'm like like if there'sanything that you're going to
take when you're away atuniversity, take a b complex,
but methylated, so there's.
I'm sure you've seen people goto whatever drugstore, buy

(01:45:03):
something off the shelf andthey'll buy cyanocobalamin,
which is made from cyanide, andit's like okay, well, not all
people depends on your genetics,but it can do a lot of harm.
So B-complex is one of thosestaples and while I don't, I

(01:45:23):
have a really opposing view ondifferent probiotics.
I do not believe and this isgoing so against the grain, amy,
but I do not believe insoil-based probiotics.
I'm cool with that.
I'm aligned.
Yeah, I'm aligned.
So here's the thing.
I look at this and I'm like myparents were farmers.

(01:45:46):
Okay, we are talking as oldschool as it gets Grew up in old
Croatia farming, or they dideverything the old way, and so I
like to emulate, if I can.
I live in Toronto so it's hard,but I like to emulate how they

(01:46:07):
ate.
So eating with the seasons andsure you get a little bit of
spore-based probiotics, butthrough inhalation, through
maybe what's left over in thefood.
I just don't know if I resonatewith taking mounds and mounds
of soil-based probiotics.
However, I do feel that takinga daily multi-strain human

(01:46:34):
strain probiotic can kind ofkeep those bacteria at bay.
But if you do the research theydon't proliferate right, so
they're transient.
So it's almost like it's kindof keeping everything okay, but
it's not like it's creating aperfect environment.

(01:46:54):
So I'm always like when youtake a human strain it's good
for you.
But you know there are somethat I am doing so much studies
on, like I'm starting to takel-reuteri.
Have you heard a lot?

about L-reuteri.
I've heard of it, but go deeper.
I don't know enough about it tospeak on it.

So L-reuteri has a lot.
Do you know?
You must know Dr William Davis.
He's the wheat belly, hecreated the wheat belly series,
so I interviewed him about ayear ago and he talks a lot
about making your own El Rudray.
People don't realize howbeneficial it is and how it can
actually create a betterenvironment.

(01:47:35):
I actually tried to make my ownEl Rudray yogurt.
It was a bit of a fail, so nowI'm just taking it Just take it.
Just take it and uh, but it cando a lot of beneficial things
for brain health, for justoverall digestion and um, like
people who are anxious, peoplewho have other issues so and and

(01:48:00):
even for weight loss, formetabolism.
It's just one of those strainsand then I've been uh, taking
acromantia, but I do I was justgoing to ask you about that.
Okay, yes, so there's a guttest that's out now.
Have you heard of it?
It's called VitaTract orVytract, something like that.
Vytract.

I haven't heard of that one, although I
believe somebody may haveconnected me with those gut
people.
I usually use diagnosticsolutions, which has, you know,
the GI map that has theacromantia right there.

This one does too.

Okay, okay.
So yeah, what are your thoughtson it?
What are you seeing?

So, the only thing I'm going to say I haven't done
it yet, but they do say I'mgoing to say yet, but they do
say I.
I'm gonna say I feel it's morehype on this whole connection to

(01:49:00):
like, oh it's gonna work like aglp-1, like I don't see it okay
, I don't.

I'm diving into that research now, just
trying to weed through it all.
There's a a lot of studies outthere.

Well, I'm kind of I don't know.
I'm kind of living proof inthat Like I've been taking it
for two months steady, becauseI'm testing it, Like, just like
you, you know how you like totest things, I do too.
I test things and like I don'tsee anything.
But I got a lot of other stuffgoing on too right now, so maybe

(01:49:29):
I'm not.
You know, it's not the perfectenvironment for me to say it
doesn't work, but I don't see it.
I'm just taking it because theydo say having acromantia just
is a greater, a beneficialenvironment for your gut
microbiome.
So that's what, that's why I'mdoing it and I'm only going to

(01:49:52):
do three months, I'm only goingto pulse it because too too much
is also not good either.

Right, right.
So I have a couple of differentthoughts for you.
Number one I want to send youmetabolism fixer because that
has the T2 in it and it hassuppressa in it, which
suppresses the appetite.
I want you to stack that withthe acromantia and see if that
bundle doesn't affect yourappetite.

(01:50:20):
And obviously we don't want itto be like a weight loss drug
like we talked about.
We don't want it crushing yourappetite to where you're not
going to eat your protein,you're not going to want to eat.
That's bad.
But I think if it takes theedge off, that'll be an
interesting experiment.
My second question to you isbecause you deal so much with

(01:50:40):
metabolism.
I mean, you just said that yougot your, you did a special
training or got your degree inmetabolic disorders correct?

I am a certified metabolic balance coach.

Okay, that's amazing.
So with that, are you noticingany tie-in with acromancy or
lowering insulin resistance andimproving metabolic disease?

Ooh, I don't know.

Okay, I couldn't tell you That'll be.
Your job is to dive into that.
Dive into that research andthen pair it with metabolism
fixer.

Interesting because you know, I I do find I have my
mom's like this too.
She has a higher HbA1c, buthers started much later.
It started after 75, and so forme everything's starting like
early, like early right, like Ifeel like I don't know.

(01:51:40):
I do feel like not having thegland puts you at a little bit
of a disadvantage.
It's kind of like people whodon't have a gallbladder.
They kind of have to be alittle bit careful about the fat
that they eat.

Yeah.

My husband doesn't have a gallbladder, so for him,
I'm always giving him ox bile.
So, by the way, that's anotherbig supplement for people who
are listening.
If you don't have a gallbladderor if you're eating a high fat
food and you get thatgallbladder pain, you know, you
can like, if you, if you knowyou have gallstones, taking ox

(01:52:18):
bile so important, so important,um, and you can get higher
doses.
There is a company, but I don'tknow if they're in the U?
S.
They're called VitaZan.
They have a higher dose of oxbile, which is really good for
my husband.
He never has issues if he has ahigher fat food.
Now back to the whole metabolismthing.
So from age 41 to 54, I havehad variances of 25 pounds up

(01:52:54):
and down, and so for me I'malways looking for what can I do
that's going to keep me themost stable without doing
something extreme, without doingsomething extreme.

(01:53:15):
That's why I went and I did theprogram and became a metabolic
balance coach.
Because it's very sensiblewhere you're eating a variety of
foods, which is something Ibelieve that we need to eat a
variety of foods because that'sgood for our microbiome of foods
, because that's good for ourmicrobiome, right, right, and
it's kept me the most stablethat I've been since.

I had my thyroid out.
Oh, that's beautiful, isn'tstability a wonderful place to
be where you're literally you'renot gaining weight, looking
sideways at a brownie.
That's what I always say.
That's how I was before I wasoptimized.
I'm sure that's how you werebefore you came into this
stabilization place.

But you know, anybody who has had thyroid
problems would know that likethis is very emotional for me,
and I'm sure you would feel thistoo where you wake up at 3 in
the morning and go holy shit,I'm gaining weight again.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yes.

(01:54:13):
And you're like what do I donow?
I've done this diet, I've doneketo, I've done this.
I, you know, and you, you tryeverything and you wonder and
then I actually have gone.
I went to Sedona in 2022 and Isaw I call her my spiritual

(01:54:35):
hypnotist and I sat with her fortwo hours and we worked on
clearing limiting beliefs, whichis something that I'm a big
believer in.
Right, Because, what do they say?
They say, oh, once you loseyour thyroid, you're going to
get fat.
Once you hit menopause, you'regoing to get fat, everything's

(01:54:56):
going to go downhill.
And so I left Sedona with thislittle box and it had a crystal
on it and I wrote this after Isaw her and it was my mantra
that I worked on with her and itsaid I am thin and I am healthy

(01:55:16):
, and that was in August 2022.
And then October was when I hadthe high HbA1c.
The weight was just going goingup.
The high HbA1c, the weight wasjust going going up and I
decided to finish mycertification to become a
metabolic balance coach, startedNovember 1st, lost 4% total

(01:55:37):
body fat by December 2022.
So what I'm saying is it's notlike she magically waved a wand
and said okay, now you're goingto be thin and healthy, but it's
like she set me on thattrajectory to try and clear some
of those limiting beliefs thatwere there.

Yes, oh, that's so important.
That is so important.
I'm glad you mentioned that too, because I think, with
everything that we've talkedabout today from the right
thyroid treatment, the rightthyroid treatment, nutrition
supplementation, all thedifferent things If you believe

(01:56:16):
that you're fat and nothing'sgoing to work and I'm never
going to get better and this isjust a disease that I'm going to
have to live with, and this andthis and this, then you know
what the answer is You're right,like you are, absolutely.
Whatever you believe, you areright because you will
self-perpetuate that belief tofruition.
It'll show itself one way oranother, good or bad, yeah.

Yeah, I do believe that, and some people need to
get help to figure out how to,and whatever resonates with you
may not resonate with me, andvice versa.
I do a lot of getting into that.
theta state yeah and visualizingbecause I feel I'm that kind of

(01:56:59):
person that I have to, becauseI can be my own worst enemy
where I get into that spiral,just like I said.
You wake up at three in themorning and you're like, oh my
God, I just keep.
And then the scale just keepsgoing up, up, up and I'm like
I'm five, two like you.
In university I was a hundredpounds, soaking wet.

(01:57:20):
I'm a little person.
It's not my genetic compositionto be heavy, so why is this
going to make me heavy If mydoctors and everyone saying
you're optimized, your thyroidis optimized, everything's
working perfect, so why would Ibe heavy?
Right, Right.

So what did you, besides the meeting with
your woman in Sedona and thatlittle box, do you have a daily
practice to really anchor yourthoughts in a positive direction
so it can continue working onyour body coming on?
I mean, I do resonate with that.
I've been in that position.
And then I'm thinking of, oh mygosh, all the women out there

(01:58:13):
that are totally resonating withwhat you just said, either in
the weight department or theother place I hear this is hair
Like what am I going to do?
My hair is falling out, itwon't stop, I'm going to be bald
, and their whole day is takenup by that anxiety and those
looping, ruminating thoughtsabout how much worse can this

(01:58:35):
get?
Same with weight.
So what do you recommend peopledo?
What do you do on the daily?

So you have to, whatever it is and this isn't
about any kind of religion butif you don't have some sort of a
grounding practice and I'm nottalking about that you have to
go and buy the earthing bedsheets and sleep on ground.
I did do that for a while, bythe way, and I'm not saying
anything's wrong with it, it'sjust, for me it's Try everything

(01:59:05):
.
Yeah, exactly For me it'saction.
So my degree is actually inEnglish literature Try
everything.
And then I started to pick itup again and I actually built
two websites while I was takingcare of kids not working, and

(01:59:34):
one of them was for advocacy forthe type of tumor that my
daughter had, and one of themwas for thyroid.
These are so like old.
I did this in my forties, butthe writing was extremely
therapeutic for me, and I saythis to my kids all the time,

(01:59:54):
who are now young adults, andthey're like well, I can't
really write.
I'm like, but nobody's readingthis.
Like for you, nobody's readingit.
You don't have to be good atgrammar or anything, but there's
something about from the heartputting pen and from the head
down to paper.
There's something.
And I feel like even kids thesedays.

(02:00:17):
They don't even know how towrite cursive.
They don't know like they don'twrite.
Everything is done and I thinkthat something is lost there,
because it can be very powerfulwhen you do that.
The other thing is some sort ofan energetic clearing.
So I used to feng shui people'shomes.

(02:00:37):
This was I brought in aconsultant when my daughter and
I were sick.
I was like, okay, is there badenergy in my house?
Like what's going on?
Like, is this, you know, is myhouse cursed?
So bringing in some sort of aclearing practice.
So I still to this day fengshui my home, my whole home.

(02:01:00):
According to the annual FlyingStars, this might be out there
for some people, but it's notthat hard.
There's a lot of help there andI use, you know, like sage, I
think is almost overused.
It's become so like almostcommercialized.
So I just burn a little bit ofincense every morning just to
kind of clear the space,clearing your space.

(02:01:23):
I walk my dog every single dayand I purposely do not walk on
the sidewalks, we go in thetrails, we go in the forest.
Do not put on your headphones.
Take those headphones off.
Pay attention to what signs arethere, because often those
little signs can give you hopefor a change or for something

(02:01:46):
different change or forsomething different.
Like I, I feel like we justdeflect.
Every day we deflect and thenlook for an easy way.
Mind you, there are some easythings that I do do.
I do do a brain tap or new calmalmost daily, almost daily, but
that, like that, helps get my,my brain there, which I need.

(02:02:09):
A little bit of help that getsme into that theta state.
So those are some practicesthat I feel are extremely
powerful for anyone who'slooking for a change and you're
grasping at straws and tryingeverything, just like the
earthing bedsheets.
I mean I shouldn't say thatbecause for some people it works
.
Yeah, it does, but it justdidn't for me.

But just saying, you know, yeah, exactly
no, I love all of that, andactually you just you just hit
me between the eyes with astatement.
So I am going to promise youthat I will change that.
I, too, walk my dog everymorning and I have my earphones
in and I'm answering emails andI'm getting work done, and

(02:02:51):
you're so right.
I mean, what I preach to peopleis don't do that and be with
your dog, be in your environment, be in nature, and and so you
just kind of slapped me upsidethe head with that one.
So I'll change it.
I'll change it Right.

You see people jog Like I, I'm, I will.
Okay, I'm like I've turned intothis.
Such the geek, I'll go for mywalks and then I'll be like, oh,
and I'll be my dog's name'sGracie.
I'll be like Gracie.
Look at that Cardinal.
It's like right there in frontof us.
And then somebody will gojogging by with headphones on.

(02:03:29):
They have no idea what's goingon around them and I'm like
you're missing it, you'remissing this, you know yeah.

I know it's true, it's so true.
Yeah, oh my gosh, sandy, thishas been such an amazing two
hour long conversation.
I absolutely love it.
We jive on so many things we do.
I mean we could probably keepgoing, but we both have to wrap
it up and get on with our day.
So for my audience, can youtell them where they can find

(02:03:59):
you?
And we're also going to put inyou had mentioned this earlier
about the.
I'm trying to find it here.
Wait, where did it go?
The Essential Thyroid Guide?
Yeah, it's on Amazon.
So we're going to put that linkinto the show notes for both
the United States and Canada.
I love that you wrote this.
I love that you wrote anEssential Thyroid Guide.

(02:04:19):
So many people need it.
So can you tell people wherethey can find you, and then
we'll put that link in the shownotes as well.

Yes, it's just Sandy K nutrition everywhere.
Anywhere you do social media,just look for Sandy K nutrition.
I'm on Tik TOK, facebook,instagram, um rumble, youtube.
I'm.
I'm trying a sub stack as well,but I'm finding that it's
taking away from what I reallywant to do, which is finish my

(02:04:47):
book and the Essential ThyroidGuide.
The reason I wrote it isbecause when I started to do my
research, I didn't really wantthis 250-page clinical book.
I wanted the Kohl's Notes toget me started, which is why I
wrote this, because it gives youthe Coles notes.

(02:05:09):
It's not going deep in aclinical sense on things that
some people don't want.
If you want that, get aclinical book and learn about it
.
The Essential Thyroid Guide isjust simply what do I need to
know as the basics, becausepeople don't even realize, like
what we're talking about, thattoxins could be a major factor

(02:05:31):
in thyroid health.
So that's why I wrote that.
But yes, I'm, I'm Sandy Knutrition everywhere.

That makes it so easy, beautiful, oh easy, so
easy, yeah, yeah.
And then for your people tokind of close out your podcast.
So, since this is a jointpodcast, oh, yes, yes, yes.

And where can we find you?
And where?

can we find you?
So I am.
I couldn't get Dr Amyeverywhere.
That's actually what I wanted.
So Instagram is at Dr AmyHorniman, and then Facebook.
We have a Facebook group calledGirl Fix your Thyroid.
Anybody can join it and inthere you can post your
questions, you can post yourlabs.
I'm in there answering For thepeople that are like this is

(02:06:16):
what I'm on and these are mylabs and I feel like garbage.
What should I do?
Or I haven't been diagnosed yet.
These are my labs.
What should I do?
Do I have a problem?
I don't know.
My doctors keep telling me I'mnormal.
So we do have that Facebookgroup and that's where I like to
shuttle people, because that'sa great place to kind of get to

(02:06:36):
know me and then I can help youfree of charge in that group and
then you can figure out whatyour next step is.
So definitely Instagram,facebook, you know YouTube and
then the thyroid fixer podcast.
Of course that you are on that.
We are joint recording rightnow.

Yes, Okay, Perfect.
Thank you so much.
I loved chatting with you.
You know what we need to do.
We need to do a second parteron thyroid and longevity.
I don't know.
I've been digging deep on theresearch on that and man like it
might not be sexy as a topicfor longevity and health span,

(02:07:12):
but I think we can make it sexy.

It's important.
It's important because I wouldlove to hear your research on
thyroid and longevity and howthat is connected.
I mean regenerative longevity,and those are the buzzwords
these days, so people areinterested for sure.

So let's do that, we will, we will All right.
Thank you so much, amy.

And thank you , sandy, I love this this has
been so much fun.

Yeah, thanks.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Be sure to share it withsomeone you know might benefit,
with someone you know mightbenefit, and always remember
when you rate, review, subscribe, you help to support my content

(02:07:58):
and help me to keep going andbringing these conversations to
you each and every week.
Join me next week for a newtopic, new guest, new exciting
conversations to help you liveyour best life.

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The Ultimate Thyroid Episode: Everything Your Doctor Hasn’t Told You with Dr. Amie Hornaman - SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 285

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Ultimate Thyroid Episode: Everything Your Doctor Hasn’t Told You with Dr. Amie Hornaman - SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 285