June 9, 2025 • 24 mins
In this empowering episode, Dr. Robin Buckley shares how you can apply business strategies to strengthen your marriage. If you’re struggling to balance work and relationships, or if you feel overwhelmed by marital challenges, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
- Why business skills like strategy can enhance your marriage across all stages
- How to create a mission statement to align your relationship goals
- What 180 thinking does to control negative thoughts and improve communication
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stages 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Dr. Robin Buckley earned her PhD in clinical psychology from Hofstra University, with specialized training in cognitive behavioral methodology and executive coaching. Multiple media platforms featured her work, including Entrepreneur, Chief, Authority Magazine, Nike, and the TED stage. As an international speaker, Robin focuses on applying cognitive behavioral strategies to mental wellness in the workplace and women’s equity and empowerment. As a coach, Robin applies cognitive behavioral tactics to help organizations, couples, and individuals create strategic plans for professional and personal success.
Want to learn more about Dr. Robin Buckley's work at Insights Group? Check out her website at drrobinbuckley.com, her company website at https://igcoaching.net/, and her book, Marriage Inc Build a Thriving Relationship with a Business Mindset
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
(00:02):
again to the secrets of thehigh demand coach podcast,
where here with us today isyet another high demand coach
in the one and only, Dr RobinBuckley, who earned her PhD in
Clinical Psychology fromHofstra University with
specialized training incognitive behavioral
methodology and executivecoaching. Multiple media
multiple media platformsfeatured her work, including
(00:25):
entrepreneur, Chief authoritymagazine, Nike and even the
TED stage. As an internationalspeaker, Robin focuses on
applying cognitive behavioralstrategies to mental wellness
in the workplace and women'sequity and empowerment. And as
a coach, Robin appliescognitive behavioral tactics
to help organizations, couplesand individuals, create
(00:46):
strategic plans for personaland professional success. And
she's got a very, very coolbook that we're going to talk
about here today calledMarriage Inc, building a or
build a thriving relationshipwith a business mindset, very
excited to dive in. Well,first off, Dr Robin, thanks so
much for being on the show.I'm excited to have you here
(01:06):
for this conversation today,talking about the founder's
guide to marriage. I thinkthat's where we're going with
this. And you argue in thebook that marriage isn't hard
work, but requires diligence,attention, nurturement,
dedication and strategy. Fivethings that, if we're honest,
founders are generally prettygood, at at least, most of
(01:28):
them in business. So why is itthat so many founders struggle
to apply these same skills totheir marriages?
Dr. Robin Buckley (01:35):
Yeah, it's really simple, Scott. I think
that we have been raised insociety that business and our
personal relationships aredifferent, that they're
different worlds, that weshould keep those boundaries.
We're taught, you know, tomake sure they have those
boundaries, to keep thoseareas of our lives healthy.
But I argue that while theboundaries are sometimes good
in terms of designated timeand focusing, that why
(01:57):
reinvent the wheel if we'regood at things in our
professional life,particularly as founders. Why
couldn't those same skills andstrategies be applied to our
relationships? For the samelevel of success, we don't
have to become a differentperson or try different
things, the things that we dowell or that we really apply
successfully at work, can dothe same thing in our
(02:18):
relationships. So it'sbreaking down just that that
societal construct that workand in a home life or
relationships are essentiallydifferent because they're
actually not.
Scott Ritzheimer (02:28):
So practically speaking, what
dive right in with this? Startat the very beginning. You
know, oftentimes, when you'refiguring out what you want
your business to be all about,you start with a mission
statement and a visionstatement. And so how, can
crafting these in theircompany? How can they take
that skill and apply it to amarriage? And what's the
benefit or the result that youtend to see in folks who do?
Dr. Robin Buckley (02:50):
Right, founders can tell me clearly
why mission and visionstatements are important for a
business. There are nosuccessful businesses out
there that don't have both ofthose in place, and the same
benefits happen when you applyit to your relationship.
Although I would say about 99%of the clients I work with
don't have a relationship,mission and or vision
statement, but it offers thesame direction unity, focus on
(03:12):
shared values, focus on theultimate goal. And so when we
build in this practice of notonly creating these statements
in our relationships, but thenposting them and revisiting
them as dynamic tools as ourrelationship evolves, just
like we would in a business.And maybe it doesn't happen
for 1015, years, because thecurrent mission and vision
(03:35):
statement worked, but when itneeds some tweaking, then we
can do it, but it createsthat, that unified direction
for the couple, so that thereisn't any kind of
miscommunication or completelydifferent ideas of where the
relationship is going.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:51):
Yeah, you have this really cool model
that you depict in the book.It's very, very simple. And if
I remember correctly, it'swhy, how? What is that right,
right? And so just, if you'relike, What is a mission
statement for a marriage?Well, first off, get the book,
because there's all kinds ofdetail in there about it. But
(04:11):
just simply ask, like, why,right? How, how, like, how are
we going to behave? How are wegoing to engage with each
other, and what's that looklike? What are we going to do
and do it together? So, why?How? Yeah, why? How? What I
love that it was just sosimple, it jumped right off
the page at me?
Dr. Robin Buckley (04:28):
Yeah. And that's a kind of joke that's
been around because SimonSinek created it. It's his
golden circle approach. AndI've always appreciated it
because it simplifies it, andit keeps people focusing on
three questions, one wordquestions that they can apply
in their professional life,but also in their personal
life.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:45):
Yeah, you've also got this great concept in
the book and moving towardidentifying pain points as
opposed to problems. Great,great language there. It's
funny how little semantics canmake such a big difference.
So. What's the differencebetween a pain point and a
problem? And for those who arevery used to solving problems
(05:07):
at work, how can theytranslate this into helping
relieve pain points at home?
Dr. Robin Buckley (05:12):
Right. So you're right. Semantics are
important. They're not justwords. It's how our brain
hears it and interprets itwhen we talk about problems,
there is typically anemotional reaction just to
that word, and we see it assomething really negative pain
points. Creates a little moreobjectivity, and it allows us
(05:33):
to think about, okay, how isthis a challenge that we can
work around, that we're goingto come up with some solutions
for? It is not as asintimidating as a problem,
because problems might ask andnot be fixable, but a pain
point is and we know this inbusiness. So when we talk
about, when the couples I workwith, we talk about, okay,
(05:53):
what are the pain points? Theycan talk about pain points in
much more objective terms thanproblems. Typically, when we
talk about problems, then alot of times, it disintegrates
into resentment and bitternessand blame, whereas pain points
are okay. What is we? What arewe dealing with as an
organization? And when I talkabout an organization, it's
(06:14):
the couple. What are we as theorganization of our
partnership? What are wedealing with that we want to
overcome so we continue toflourish?
Scott Ritzheimer (06:23):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So a lot of
particularly successfulfounders tend to become pros
at controlling chaos, right?It's just that they're
professional business platespinners, but you make the
argument, I think, very wellin the book, that we also need
(06:45):
to control our brains, andparticularly in relationship
and so coming from your backdown background, your PhD,
this really cool mix ofcognitive behavioral world and
executive coaching, right? Nota whole lot of folks who have
both of those expertise. What?Maybe you could boil that down
to, one, what does that mean?And two, what's a simple
(07:07):
strategy that we could takeand run with as early as
today?
Dr. Robin Buckley (07:11):
Right. So what I always tell people,
Scott, is that the cognitivebehavioral strategies seem
like either too easy or alittle bit fluffy, and so I
always help clients understandwhat is the neuroscience
behind them. How are youactually, literally changing
your brain when you use thesestrategies? So when I talk
about making your brain yourally instead of your
(07:32):
adversary, for yourrelationship, is knowing how
your brain works, and then,even more importantly, how the
specific cognitive behavioralstrategies work on your brain.
What most of us do is we letour brains run us like a
toddler on caffeine, and wejust let it run rampant, and
that's what undermines oursuccessful handling of any
(07:55):
situation in our life, whetherit's work or family or
relationship. So thestrategies that I work with
clients on involveunderstanding first, what
parts of the brain thestrategies are going to
target, whether prefrontalcortex or the amygdala, and
then actually practicingbecause the strategies aren't
hard, it's developing thehabits to use the strategies
(08:18):
that are the challenge for alot of people. And one of the
easiest, I think it's one ofthe easiest, is when you catch
your brain asking the thereally negative or horrible,
what ifs so? What if my spouseleaves me? What if my spouse
is cheating on me? What if wecan't get past this pain
(08:41):
point, most of us ruminate onthose what ifs, and they just
spin. And that's what wakes usup at night, and that's what
creates discontent between meand my partner. So the simple
strategy is called 180thinking, and in those moments
when you have those reallynegative what ifs, you get to
ask the exact opposite, the180 of that. What if, so? What
(09:03):
if my partner is cheating?What if I'm not seeing the
signs correctly, or what ifit's just a miscommunication?
What if we can't get past thispain point? What if we can and
our relationships getsrelationship builds and gets
better. You ask the oppositenot to convince your brain,
because your brain is a goodBI good BS tool. It'll know
(09:23):
when you're trying to force anidea into it and just want you
to accept it, you know on nofact, but you're allowing the
brain to say, Well, if theworst case scenario is
possible and hasn't happenedyet, then that means the best
case scenario, or something inthe middle, is possible
because it hasn't happenedyet. So you engage your
logical part of your brain,your strategic part of your
(09:44):
brain, you invite it into theconversation. So it's not just
the worries that aredominating your thinking which
will then dominate yourbehavior and likely undermine
the relationship, rather thanbeing able to have effective
communication and strategicplan in the relationship.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's so simple, but remarkably
powerful, and they stack rightwhen you get one or two of
these, yeah, there's all readthe chapter. It's amazing. You
won't regret it. I do want tokind of push forward, though,
because there's a lot to coverhere, and the next thing that
(10:21):
I want to dive into is thisidea of delineating roles and
titles, which could get realweird real quick, right? You
go home and call your husbandor wife, your COO or your
executive assistant, thatmight not work super well, but
what? How can we take theclarity that comes from roles
(10:41):
and titles, and create thatsame kind of clarity in what
we do and how we behave athome?
Dr. Robin Buckley (10:47):
Right. So any of your listeners can
think about this when they'vebeen in a relationship and
things aren't clear as towho's going to take care of
what, or who's in charge of,really the oversight of
something. It gets reallycumbersome. Things don't
happen, or we make assumptionsthat someone else is going to
take care of it. We wouldnever do this at work. We
(11:08):
would never say, Hey, we'vegot this project. Let's get it
done. We would assign rolesand tasks and have timelines.
We don't do this very often inour relationships, but as soon
as we do, it streamlines therelationship, which means
there's more cognitive energyto devote to enhancing the
relationship. And I use theexample in my book. You
probably remember Scott, thatin my relationship, my husband
(11:30):
is the CFO. He loves playingwith numbers. He's really good
at it. I can do it. It's justnot as exciting to me. So when
we merged our families, wemade the decision we were both
trying to pay bills at thesame time. It was getting just
the overlap was gettingdifficult. So finally, we
decided, okay, who's going tobe the one to have oversight
on this? And he jumped rightin, because that's his thing.
(11:51):
Now, what it doesn't mean isthat whoever has oversight
takes care of everything anddoesn't involve the other
person that is a problem.That's why there's no real
CEOs in relationships, becausethat would be the final stop.
But he gets to come back inour monthly meetings to say,
here's where our finances are,here's some of our
(12:11):
investments. What do you thinkabout these options? Do you
have any other options? Youhave any questions? You know?
What are your thoughts? So wedo collaborate, but he is the
one to make sure all the hebrings in all the information
into our meeting. I'm the COO.I like organizing our family,
culture, our schedules,anything related to our
health. I am, I am fully onboard with over overseeing,
(12:34):
really, the rest of our life.And I do the same in our
meetings. I give them like,here's the birthdays coming
up. Here's what we're doingsocially. Here's the important
things we need to remember interms of medical stuff and
whatever. And it works,because he doesn't have to
worry about that stuff until Ibring it to his attention. I
don't have to worry about thefinance till we have our
monthly catch ups, unless hecalls an emergency meeting.
(12:58):
And we do that in everythingin our life, so that it's very
clear who has the oversight ofeach area of our life, and
then that person brings theother one in to make
decisions.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:08):
Yeah, I I spend a lot of time working
with the companies that Ihelp, helping them build the
right cadence of the rightmeetings, right we spend a lot
of time on that, getting anorganization to work together
efficiently, because you canhave too many, you can have
too few. You can have, youknow, right the right amount,
but talk about the wrongthings. And I was listening to
(13:30):
another podcast, I think ofJordan Peterson, was talking
about he and his wife havelike, a 90 minute meeting, I
think, every week, somethinglike that. And he said, from
his opinion, as apsychologist, that marriages
happen whenever you don't have10,000 fights, right? And so
when, when should we meet? Howoften should we meet, and what
(13:52):
should we talk about?
Dr. Robin Buckley (13:53):
Right. I usually suggest with couples,
I love the idea of a weeklymeeting, but I work with a lot
of busy couples that would bevery challenging. So I say at
minimum once a month. Once amonth you designate, and I
also say 60 minutes, becausemost meetings after 60
minutes, people are tired, andthat's when emotions can come
in. And we don't want a lot ofemotional reactions in these
meetings. So once a month, youput it on your calendar and
(14:16):
you adhere to it like anyother meeting. You don't say,
oh, yeah, we'll just we'll dothat tomorrow. It's a meeting
that you two have designatedas important, and then
creating an agenda, which Iknow sounds a little bit too
structured for a relationship,but again, why do we have a
meet? Why do we have agendasin our work meetings? Is to
make sure we cover everything.There's a flow, there's
(14:36):
documentation as to what we'vetalked about. Why would that
be any less important in oneof the most important parts of
our life, which are ourrelationships. So I tell
couples that what can reallybe beneficial is either to
create a Google Doc or ashared notes on their phones,
and they add to their agendathroughout the month. So as
things pop up, they put it onon the agenda for
(14:58):
conversation, and this isevery. Rethink, Scott from,
you know, the operational dayto day stuff like scheduling
and finances, all the way tointimacy and physical
connection, everything thatimpacts their relationship is
discussed in these meetings,and what it does. And I love
how you reference the 10,000little fights, is instead of
walking through the kitchenand saying, Oh yeah, by the
(15:20):
way, you know, there was thisinvestment that came up, and
you know, we'll have to talkabout that over lunch, which
might interrupt someone's lineof thinking they're heading
off to a meeting, you know,and that disrupts everything.
Or, you know, that reallyirritated me when you did
that. And again, it sets thewhole tone for the day. Now
you have a designated place tostore this information so it
(15:42):
doesn't get lost, and thenideally an objective place to
have a conversation. Say, youknow, a couple weeks ago when
you said that, that reallybothered me, and I've been
thinking about that some more,and I want to address that so
we come up with some SOPs sowe can avoid that. It also
creates that distance betweenthe incident that sets someone
off and time to actually nowhave a strategic conversation
(16:03):
about it.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:04):
Yeah, there was a tool, I think you could
call it, for lack of a betterterm, that I loved, not just
for relationship, but also forwork that I think a lot of
founders failed to implement.It was called the no other
zone. And so I'm wondering ifyou could share, what is the
no other zone, and how can itserve us, both at work and at
(16:27):
home? Yeah. Naz,
Dr. Robin Buckley (16:29):
I love that too. No other zone. No other
zone, is essentially atminimum 10 minutes a day that
a couple sits and connects.Because what we you know, you
probably have done this too,and your relationship. Scott,
you know you you walk by oryou come home from working,
like, how was your day Good?How was your day good? And
that's it. Or, how do youthink we're doing? Oh, hey,
we're good. That is not an indepth analysis of We're, of
(16:51):
the state of state of therelationship, but 10 minutes a
day where you can actually sitdown and talk to your partner,
or not talk to your partner,you're just physically
together. And for the couplesthat travel a lot, it's 10
minutes where they're they'redoing something virtually
together. But I used to jokewith our own kids, unless
someone is bleeding ordismembered, you do not
(17:13):
interrupt us in those 10minutes. And I've had couples
have the most unique places tohave their meetings. They've
met in bathrooms for 10minutes and just sat in the
bathroom together. They'vehidden in their cars in the
garage because they they knowit's important not to be
interrupted. And our external,internal stakeholders, which
is also in the book, can beconsistent sources of
(17:33):
interruption, which then putsthe relationship far down on
the list. And the relationshipis what started everything. So
if it's really low on thelist, what is the viability of
everything else that isimpacted in the couple's life?
Scott Ritzheimer (17:48):
Yeah, so true. So true. It's great for
your one on one meetings atwork, just that, that
dedicated, focused attention,you get so much more out of
it. It's fantastic. So I'd beremiss to not ask this
question, because it'sprobably sitting in the back
of someone's mind. But does,does everything apply? Or
(18:10):
there are some businesspractices that should be left
at work and shouldn't comeinto how we manage our
relationships or our marriage?Yeah,
Dr. Robin Buckley (18:18):
I briefly mentioned it before. I don't,
I don't see a place for a CEOin a relationship. CEOs, you
know, typically have finalassignment or not. They have
to, you know, run it by theirboard, but that's not
typically how it runs. Andactually, you referenced one
Scott that I hadn't thought ofthe executive assistant. I
don't know if I would use thatterm as much in a
relationship, but again, Ialways remind couples, they're
(18:39):
the experts in theirrelationship. I might be the
expert in terms of how tostructure it and strategies
and what works well based onresearch and based on my
experiences with couples, butthey know their relationship.
So I've had some coupleschallenge the CEO aspect,
mostly around cultural issuesand the ways that a couple
(19:00):
wants their relationship tobe. And it's not for me to say
you can't do that or youshouldn't do that. It's let's
make sure that all theparameters are in place so
that actually does work, andit doesn't build into a sense
of resentment over time.That's pro those are probably
the best examples I have. Whatdoesn't belong any toxicity or
(19:21):
ineffective leadership, ofcourse, doesn't belong. It
also doesn't belong inbusiness. The things that
don't work in business shouldcertainly stay out of your
relationship, and a lot ofcouples don't see that.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:32):
Wow, I've got one more question before I
let you go here, we'll makesure folks know that you can
get a copy of the book. Butwhat would you say is the
biggest secret that you wishwasn't a secret at all. What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or
listening today knew?
Dr. Robin Buckley (19:45):
Well, it's probably not a surprise. What
am I going to say?Relationships are about
strategy, and it doesn't takeaway the bells and whistles.
And I always consider love andsexual attraction are the
bells and whistles when youhave strategy in your
relationship. Relationshipthat creates the strong
foundation for your bells andwhistles to get better and
better and withstand the testof time. So instead of looking
(20:09):
at your relationship withhopes and prayers and wishes,
actually create a strategy anda business plan for your
relationship, and then it willbe as successful as you make it.
Scott Ritzheimer (20:19):
Yeah, yeah. It's so true. Dr Robin
Buckley, just fantastic.Really, really loved every bit
of this. There are some folkslistening. First they want to
get a copy of the book, tellus how we can do that. And
then they may want to knowmore about the work that you
do and the coaching that youoffer. Where can they find
more out about that as well?
Dr. Robin Buckley (20:37):
All in one place, my website is. Dr Robin
Buckley, all one word, nopunctuation .com, and they can
do pre sales for the book.They can also learn a lot more
about my executive coachingfor individuals as well as my
speaking. I do a lot ofcorporate trainings and
wellness or in the corporateenvironment. So I'm happy to
have a conversation on how Ican make your professional and
(20:58):
personal life better.
Scott Ritzheimer (20:59):
Fantastic, fantastic. Such a privilege
and honor having you here.Loved this conversation, loved
the book. Can't wait for it tobe out and available to the
public. For those of youwatching and listening, you
know that your time andattention mean the world to us
as well. I hope you got asmuch out of this conversation
as I know I did, and I cannotwait to see you next time,
(21:21):
take care.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
(00:02):
again to the secrets of thehigh demand coach podcast,
where here with us today isyet another high demand coach
in the one and only, Dr RobinBuckley, who earned her PhD in
Clinical Psychology fromHofstra University with
specialized training incognitive behavioral
methodology and executivecoaching. Multiple media
multiple media platformsfeatured her work, including
(00:25):
entrepreneur, Chief authoritymagazine, Nike and even the
TED stage. As an internationalspeaker, Robin focuses on
applying cognitive behavioralstrategies to mental wellness
in the workplace and women'sequity and empowerment. And as
a coach, Robin appliescognitive behavioral tactics
to help organizations, couplesand individuals, create
(00:46):
strategic plans for personaland professional success. And
she's got a very, very coolbook that we're going to talk
about here today calledMarriage Inc, building a or
build a thriving relationshipwith a business mindset, very
excited to dive in. Well,first off, Dr Robin, thanks so
much for being on the show.I'm excited to have you here
(01:06):
for this conversation today,talking about the founder's
guide to marriage. I thinkthat's where we're going with
this. And you argue in thebook that marriage isn't hard
work, but requires diligence,attention, nurturement,
dedication and strategy. Fivethings that, if we're honest,
founders are generally prettygood, at at least, most of
(01:28):
them in business. So why is itthat so many founders struggle
to apply these same skills totheir marriages?
Dr. Robin Buckley (01:35):
Yeah, it's really simple, Scott. I think
that we have been raised insociety that business and our
personal relationships aredifferent, that they're
different worlds, that weshould keep those boundaries.
We're taught, you know, tomake sure they have those
boundaries, to keep thoseareas of our lives healthy.
But I argue that while theboundaries are sometimes good
in terms of designated timeand focusing, that why
(01:57):
reinvent the wheel if we'regood at things in our
professional life,particularly as founders. Why
couldn't those same skills andstrategies be applied to our
relationships? For the samelevel of success, we don't
have to become a differentperson or try different
things, the things that we dowell or that we really apply
successfully at work, can dothe same thing in our
(02:18):
relationships. So it'sbreaking down just that that
societal construct that workand in a home life or
relationships are essentiallydifferent because they're
actually not.
Scott Ritzheimer (02:28):
So practically speaking, what
dive right in with this? Startat the very beginning. You
know, oftentimes, when you'refiguring out what you want
your business to be all about,you start with a mission
statement and a visionstatement. And so how, can
crafting these in theircompany? How can they take
that skill and apply it to amarriage? And what's the
benefit or the result that youtend to see in folks who do?
Dr. Robin Buckley (02:50):
Right, founders can tell me clearly
why mission and visionstatements are important for a
business. There are nosuccessful businesses out
there that don't have both ofthose in place, and the same
benefits happen when you applyit to your relationship.
Although I would say about 99%of the clients I work with
don't have a relationship,mission and or vision
statement, but it offers thesame direction unity, focus on
(03:12):
shared values, focus on theultimate goal. And so when we
build in this practice of notonly creating these statements
in our relationships, but thenposting them and revisiting
them as dynamic tools as ourrelationship evolves, just
like we would in a business.And maybe it doesn't happen
for 1015, years, because thecurrent mission and vision
(03:35):
statement worked, but when itneeds some tweaking, then we
can do it, but it createsthat, that unified direction
for the couple, so that thereisn't any kind of
miscommunication or completelydifferent ideas of where the
relationship is going.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:51):
Yeah, you have this really cool model
that you depict in the book.It's very, very simple. And if
I remember correctly, it'swhy, how? What is that right,
right? And so just, if you'relike, What is a mission
statement for a marriage?Well, first off, get the book,
because there's all kinds ofdetail in there about it. But
(04:11):
just simply ask, like, why,right? How, how, like, how are
we going to behave? How are wegoing to engage with each
other, and what's that looklike? What are we going to do
and do it together? So, why?How? Yeah, why? How? What I
love that it was just sosimple, it jumped right off
the page at me?
Dr. Robin Buckley (04:28):
Yeah. And that's a kind of joke that's
been around because SimonSinek created it. It's his
golden circle approach. AndI've always appreciated it
because it simplifies it, andit keeps people focusing on
three questions, one wordquestions that they can apply
in their professional life,but also in their personal
life.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:45):
Yeah, you've also got this great concept in
the book and moving towardidentifying pain points as
opposed to problems. Great,great language there. It's
funny how little semantics canmake such a big difference.
So. What's the differencebetween a pain point and a
problem? And for those who arevery used to solving problems
(05:07):
at work, how can theytranslate this into helping
relieve pain points at home?
Dr. Robin Buckley (05:12):
Right. So you're right. Semantics are
important. They're not justwords. It's how our brain
hears it and interprets itwhen we talk about problems,
there is typically anemotional reaction just to
that word, and we see it assomething really negative pain
points. Creates a little moreobjectivity, and it allows us
(05:33):
to think about, okay, how isthis a challenge that we can
work around, that we're goingto come up with some solutions
for? It is not as asintimidating as a problem,
because problems might ask andnot be fixable, but a pain
point is and we know this inbusiness. So when we talk
about, when the couples I workwith, we talk about, okay,
(05:53):
what are the pain points? Theycan talk about pain points in
much more objective terms thanproblems. Typically, when we
talk about problems, then alot of times, it disintegrates
into resentment and bitternessand blame, whereas pain points
are okay. What is we? What arewe dealing with as an
organization? And when I talkabout an organization, it's
(06:14):
the couple. What are we as theorganization of our
partnership? What are wedealing with that we want to
overcome so we continue toflourish?
Scott Ritzheimer (06:23):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So a lot of
particularly successfulfounders tend to become pros
at controlling chaos, right?It's just that they're
professional business platespinners, but you make the
argument, I think, very wellin the book, that we also need
(06:45):
to control our brains, andparticularly in relationship
and so coming from your backdown background, your PhD,
this really cool mix ofcognitive behavioral world and
executive coaching, right? Nota whole lot of folks who have
both of those expertise. What?Maybe you could boil that down
to, one, what does that mean?And two, what's a simple
(07:07):
strategy that we could takeand run with as early as
today?
Dr. Robin Buckley (07:11):
Right. So what I always tell people,
Scott, is that the cognitivebehavioral strategies seem
like either too easy or alittle bit fluffy, and so I
always help clients understandwhat is the neuroscience
behind them. How are youactually, literally changing
your brain when you use thesestrategies? So when I talk
about making your brain yourally instead of your
(07:32):
adversary, for yourrelationship, is knowing how
your brain works, and then,even more importantly, how the
specific cognitive behavioralstrategies work on your brain.
What most of us do is we letour brains run us like a
toddler on caffeine, and wejust let it run rampant, and
that's what undermines oursuccessful handling of any
(07:55):
situation in our life, whetherit's work or family or
relationship. So thestrategies that I work with
clients on involveunderstanding first, what
parts of the brain thestrategies are going to
target, whether prefrontalcortex or the amygdala, and
then actually practicingbecause the strategies aren't
hard, it's developing thehabits to use the strategies
(08:18):
that are the challenge for alot of people. And one of the
easiest, I think it's one ofthe easiest, is when you catch
your brain asking the thereally negative or horrible,
what ifs so? What if my spouseleaves me? What if my spouse
is cheating on me? What if wecan't get past this pain
(08:41):
point, most of us ruminate onthose what ifs, and they just
spin. And that's what wakes usup at night, and that's what
creates discontent between meand my partner. So the simple
strategy is called 180thinking, and in those moments
when you have those reallynegative what ifs, you get to
ask the exact opposite, the180 of that. What if, so? What
(09:03):
if my partner is cheating?What if I'm not seeing the
signs correctly, or what ifit's just a miscommunication?
What if we can't get past thispain point? What if we can and
our relationships getsrelationship builds and gets
better. You ask the oppositenot to convince your brain,
because your brain is a goodBI good BS tool. It'll know
(09:23):
when you're trying to force anidea into it and just want you
to accept it, you know on nofact, but you're allowing the
brain to say, Well, if theworst case scenario is
possible and hasn't happenedyet, then that means the best
case scenario, or something inthe middle, is possible
because it hasn't happenedyet. So you engage your
logical part of your brain,your strategic part of your
(09:44):
brain, you invite it into theconversation. So it's not just
the worries that aredominating your thinking which
will then dominate yourbehavior and likely undermine
the relationship, rather thanbeing able to have effective
communication and strategicplan in the relationship.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's so simple, but remarkably
powerful, and they stack rightwhen you get one or two of
these, yeah, there's all readthe chapter. It's amazing. You
won't regret it. I do want tokind of push forward, though,
because there's a lot to coverhere, and the next thing that
(10:21):
I want to dive into is thisidea of delineating roles and
titles, which could get realweird real quick, right? You
go home and call your husbandor wife, your COO or your
executive assistant, thatmight not work super well, but
what? How can we take theclarity that comes from roles
(10:41):
and titles, and create thatsame kind of clarity in what
we do and how we behave athome?
Dr. Robin Buckley (10:47):
Right. So any of your listeners can
think about this when they'vebeen in a relationship and
things aren't clear as towho's going to take care of
what, or who's in charge of,really the oversight of
something. It gets reallycumbersome. Things don't
happen, or we make assumptionsthat someone else is going to
take care of it. We wouldnever do this at work. We
(11:08):
would never say, Hey, we'vegot this project. Let's get it
done. We would assign rolesand tasks and have timelines.
We don't do this very often inour relationships, but as soon
as we do, it streamlines therelationship, which means
there's more cognitive energyto devote to enhancing the
relationship. And I use theexample in my book. You
probably remember Scott, thatin my relationship, my husband
(11:30):
is the CFO. He loves playingwith numbers. He's really good
at it. I can do it. It's justnot as exciting to me. So when
we merged our families, wemade the decision we were both
trying to pay bills at thesame time. It was getting just
the overlap was gettingdifficult. So finally, we
decided, okay, who's going tobe the one to have oversight
on this? And he jumped rightin, because that's his thing.
(11:51):
Now, what it doesn't mean isthat whoever has oversight
takes care of everything anddoesn't involve the other
person that is a problem.That's why there's no real
CEOs in relationships, becausethat would be the final stop.
But he gets to come back inour monthly meetings to say,
here's where our finances are,here's some of our
(12:11):
investments. What do you thinkabout these options? Do you
have any other options? Youhave any questions? You know?
What are your thoughts? So wedo collaborate, but he is the
one to make sure all the hebrings in all the information
into our meeting. I'm the COO.I like organizing our family,
culture, our schedules,anything related to our
health. I am, I am fully onboard with over overseeing,
(12:34):
really, the rest of our life.And I do the same in our
meetings. I give them like,here's the birthdays coming
up. Here's what we're doingsocially. Here's the important
things we need to remember interms of medical stuff and
whatever. And it works,because he doesn't have to
worry about that stuff until Ibring it to his attention. I
don't have to worry about thefinance till we have our
monthly catch ups, unless hecalls an emergency meeting.
(12:58):
And we do that in everythingin our life, so that it's very
clear who has the oversight ofeach area of our life, and
then that person brings theother one in to make
decisions.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:08):
Yeah, I I spend a lot of time working
with the companies that Ihelp, helping them build the
right cadence of the rightmeetings, right we spend a lot
of time on that, getting anorganization to work together
efficiently, because you canhave too many, you can have
too few. You can have, youknow, right the right amount,
but talk about the wrongthings. And I was listening to
(13:30):
another podcast, I think ofJordan Peterson, was talking
about he and his wife havelike, a 90 minute meeting, I
think, every week, somethinglike that. And he said, from
his opinion, as apsychologist, that marriages
happen whenever you don't have10,000 fights, right? And so
when, when should we meet? Howoften should we meet, and what
(13:52):
should we talk about?
Dr. Robin Buckley (13:53):
Right. I usually suggest with couples,
I love the idea of a weeklymeeting, but I work with a lot
of busy couples that would bevery challenging. So I say at
minimum once a month. Once amonth you designate, and I
also say 60 minutes, becausemost meetings after 60
minutes, people are tired, andthat's when emotions can come
in. And we don't want a lot ofemotional reactions in these
meetings. So once a month, youput it on your calendar and
(14:16):
you adhere to it like anyother meeting. You don't say,
oh, yeah, we'll just we'll dothat tomorrow. It's a meeting
that you two have designatedas important, and then
creating an agenda, which Iknow sounds a little bit too
structured for a relationship,but again, why do we have a
meet? Why do we have agendasin our work meetings? Is to
make sure we cover everything.There's a flow, there's
(14:36):
documentation as to what we'vetalked about. Why would that
be any less important in oneof the most important parts of
our life, which are ourrelationships. So I tell
couples that what can reallybe beneficial is either to
create a Google Doc or ashared notes on their phones,
and they add to their agendathroughout the month. So as
things pop up, they put it onon the agenda for
(14:58):
conversation, and this isevery. Rethink, Scott from,
you know, the operational dayto day stuff like scheduling
and finances, all the way tointimacy and physical
connection, everything thatimpacts their relationship is
discussed in these meetings,and what it does. And I love
how you reference the 10,000little fights, is instead of
walking through the kitchenand saying, Oh yeah, by the
(15:20):
way, you know, there was thisinvestment that came up, and
you know, we'll have to talkabout that over lunch, which
might interrupt someone's lineof thinking they're heading
off to a meeting, you know,and that disrupts everything.
Or, you know, that reallyirritated me when you did
that. And again, it sets thewhole tone for the day. Now
you have a designated place tostore this information so it
(15:42):
doesn't get lost, and thenideally an objective place to
have a conversation. Say, youknow, a couple weeks ago when
you said that, that reallybothered me, and I've been
thinking about that some more,and I want to address that so
we come up with some SOPs sowe can avoid that. It also
creates that distance betweenthe incident that sets someone
off and time to actually nowhave a strategic conversation
(16:03):
about it.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:04):
Yeah, there was a tool, I think you could
call it, for lack of a betterterm, that I loved, not just
for relationship, but also forwork that I think a lot of
founders failed to implement.It was called the no other
zone. And so I'm wondering ifyou could share, what is the
no other zone, and how can itserve us, both at work and at
(16:27):
home? Yeah. Naz,
Dr. Robin Buckley (16:29):
I love that too. No other zone. No other
zone, is essentially atminimum 10 minutes a day that
a couple sits and connects.Because what we you know, you
probably have done this too,and your relationship. Scott,
you know you you walk by oryou come home from working,
like, how was your day Good?How was your day good? And
that's it. Or, how do youthink we're doing? Oh, hey,
we're good. That is not an indepth analysis of We're, of
(16:51):
the state of state of therelationship, but 10 minutes a
day where you can actually sitdown and talk to your partner,
or not talk to your partner,you're just physically
together. And for the couplesthat travel a lot, it's 10
minutes where they're they'redoing something virtually
together. But I used to jokewith our own kids, unless
someone is bleeding ordismembered, you do not
(17:13):
interrupt us in those 10minutes. And I've had couples
have the most unique places tohave their meetings. They've
met in bathrooms for 10minutes and just sat in the
bathroom together. They'vehidden in their cars in the
garage because they they knowit's important not to be
interrupted. And our external,internal stakeholders, which
is also in the book, can beconsistent sources of
(17:33):
interruption, which then putsthe relationship far down on
the list. And the relationshipis what started everything. So
if it's really low on thelist, what is the viability of
everything else that isimpacted in the couple's life?
Scott Ritzheimer (17:48):
Yeah, so true. So true. It's great for
your one on one meetings atwork, just that, that
dedicated, focused attention,you get so much more out of
it. It's fantastic. So I'd beremiss to not ask this
question, because it'sprobably sitting in the back
of someone's mind. But does,does everything apply? Or
(18:10):
there are some businesspractices that should be left
at work and shouldn't comeinto how we manage our
relationships or our marriage?Yeah,
Dr. Robin Buckley (18:18):
I briefly mentioned it before. I don't,
I don't see a place for a CEOin a relationship. CEOs, you
know, typically have finalassignment or not. They have
to, you know, run it by theirboard, but that's not
typically how it runs. Andactually, you referenced one
Scott that I hadn't thought ofthe executive assistant. I
don't know if I would use thatterm as much in a
relationship, but again, Ialways remind couples, they're
(18:39):
the experts in theirrelationship. I might be the
expert in terms of how tostructure it and strategies
and what works well based onresearch and based on my
experiences with couples, butthey know their relationship.
So I've had some coupleschallenge the CEO aspect,
mostly around cultural issuesand the ways that a couple
(19:00):
wants their relationship tobe. And it's not for me to say
you can't do that or youshouldn't do that. It's let's
make sure that all theparameters are in place so
that actually does work, andit doesn't build into a sense
of resentment over time.That's pro those are probably
the best examples I have. Whatdoesn't belong any toxicity or
(19:21):
ineffective leadership, ofcourse, doesn't belong. It
also doesn't belong inbusiness. The things that
don't work in business shouldcertainly stay out of your
relationship, and a lot ofcouples don't see that.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:32):
Wow, I've got one more question before I
let you go here, we'll makesure folks know that you can
get a copy of the book. Butwhat would you say is the
biggest secret that you wishwasn't a secret at all. What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or
listening today knew?
Dr. Robin Buckley (19:45):
Well, it's probably not a surprise. What
am I going to say?Relationships are about
strategy, and it doesn't takeaway the bells and whistles.
And I always consider love andsexual attraction are the
bells and whistles when youhave strategy in your
relationship. Relationshipthat creates the strong
foundation for your bells andwhistles to get better and
better and withstand the testof time. So instead of looking
(20:09):
at your relationship withhopes and prayers and wishes,
actually create a strategy anda business plan for your
relationship, and then it willbe as successful as you make it.
Scott Ritzheimer (20:19):
Yeah, yeah. It's so true. Dr Robin
Buckley, just fantastic.Really, really loved every bit
of this. There are some folkslistening. First they want to
get a copy of the book, tellus how we can do that. And
then they may want to knowmore about the work that you
do and the coaching that youoffer. Where can they find
more out about that as well?
Dr. Robin Buckley (20:37):
All in one place, my website is. Dr Robin
Buckley, all one word, nopunctuation .com, and they can
do pre sales for the book.They can also learn a lot more
about my executive coachingfor individuals as well as my
speaking. I do a lot ofcorporate trainings and
wellness or in the corporateenvironment. So I'm happy to
have a conversation on how Ican make your professional and
(20:58):
personal life better.
Scott Ritzheimer (20:59):
Fantastic, fantastic. Such a privilege
and honor having you here.Loved this conversation, loved
the book. Can't wait for it tobe out and available to the
public. For those of youwatching and listening, you
know that your time andattention mean the world to us
as well. I hope you got asmuch out of this conversation
as I know I did, and I cannotwait to see you next time,
(21:21):
take care.
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