May 27, 2025 • 23 mins
In this BS free episode, Pia Silva, Owner of No BS Agency Mastery, shares how she went from struggling as an entrepreneur to making $40k+ per month, by doing less things for fewer people. If you are looking to boost your profits as an Entrepreneur (in stage 2) without giving up your time, you won't want to miss this episode.
You will discover:
- How do overcome the fear of niching down
- The one thing that separates the most successful stage 2 entrepreneurs from those that barely scrape by
- The most important word in business
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 2 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Entrepreneur, speaker, and author Pia Silva is a small branding agency coach, a partner, and a brand strategist at Worstofall Design. She helps small branding agencies go from drained & stretched thin to in-demand specialists with total control over their process. In 2021, she founded No BS Agency Mastery, a training program where she teaches 1-2-person branding agencies how to scale to $30-50k months while reducing their workload by up to 80% without employees. Pia has delivered a popular TED Talk on cultivating true confidence.
Want to learn more about Pia Silva's work at No BS Agency Mastery? Check out her website at https://www.nobsagencies.com/. You can get a audio version of her book "Badass Your Brand: The Impatient Entrepreneur's Guide to Turning Expertise into Profit" for free at https://www.nobsagencies.com/secrets or buy a copy on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3Fb4cKE
Mentioned in this episode:
Take the Founder's Evolution Quiz Today
If you’re a Founder, business owner, or CEO who feels overworked by the business you lead and underwhelmed by the results, you’re doing it wrong. Succeeding as a founder all comes down to doing the right one or two things right now. Take the quiz today at foundersquiz.com, and in just ten questions, you can figure out what stage you are in, so you can focus on what is going to work and say goodbye to everything else.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to
(00:02):
the secrets of the high demandcoach podcast. And here with
us today is yet another highdemand coach and leader in the
one and only, Pia silverSilva, who is an entrepreneur,
speaker and author and a smallbranding agency, coach, a
partner and a brandstrategist. At worst of all,
design, we're gonna have tounpack that where they build
badass brands without the BS.In 2021 she founded no BS
(00:26):
agency mastery, a trainingprogram where she teaches one
and two person brandingagencies how to create 30 to
$50,000 in revenue a monthwhile reducing their workload
by up to 80% and doing all ofit without employees. She is
also the author of the bestselling book badass, your
brand, the impatiententrepreneurs guide to turning
(00:47):
expertise into profit, and hasdelivered a popular TED talk
on cultivating TrueConfidence. She's here with us
today. Pia, welcome to theshow. So excited to have you
here. One thing that jumpedout as we were going through
your bio again, and I've readit so many times that, but
it's the first time it jumpedout is a lot of folks feel
like to scale. They have toadd Right? Like it has to be
(01:11):
more they have to be moreemployees. There has to be
more stuff. There have to bemore services. And very much a
big part of your message isthat's not true. To do 30 and
$50,000 a month, you don'tneed to have employees. Why is
it so important to recognizethat before going out and
trying to build, you know, thenext version of your company?
Pia Silva (01:32):
I mean, listen, when you're a small business,
Simplicity is key. I think ifentrepreneurs listening out
there when, when you're anentrepreneur, there are just
endless things to do. I thinkwe all feel a little frenetic,
especially because there's somuch information online, it's
like there's too many thingsto do. And simplification is
how we focus, not only ourtime and our energy, so that
(01:53):
the things that we actuallydo, do, you know, get the
attention that they deserveand the care that they
deserve, which levels up thevalue of what you're putting
out. But it also means thatyour audience is going to
really understand who you workwith, how you work with them.
It makes you more referable.It makes you more memorable. I
mean, you know, I think theidea of we need to add product
(02:17):
lines or have more offers workwith more people, that's
something you do when you're,I don't even know, 10 to 50,
$100 million company. We'resmall businesses. There are
plenty of clients to go aroundwhen you go super niche in
your market and your offer,and it's gonna make your life
a lot easier, and it's gonnamake your offers a lot more
profitable, which is what I'mall about.
Unknown (02:37):
Yeah, I love that. You have a problem if you have
more product lines thanpeople, right? That's just,
that's usually, that's usuallyproblematic. And here's what I
love about what you do.There's so many people who are
in that I call it the startupentrepreneur stage, and it's
them, and they look down onthemselves because it's just
them. And so they go out andthey kind of build their
(02:59):
company in a way that requiresthem to get more employees,
and then they wake up andthey're like, what's wrong
with these people? I don'twant to manage all of these
folks and what you offer,particularly in the agency
world, but there's somethingfor everyone to learn here, is
that you don't have to addpeople to add profit to add
(03:19):
and you don't have to tradehours for dollars. There is
another way. In other words,you can optimize for that
stage. You don't have to leaveit behind and graduate to the
next. It's really, reallycool. So one of the things
that jumped out for me as Iwas going through your work,
and this is something I'mconstantly working with, our
coaches, on our scalearchitects, is this idea of
(03:40):
niching down right? Andeveryone's heard that.
Everyone you know kind ofknows that, but so few of us
do it, particularly in thisstage. And so the big question
that I have for you is, firstoff, just from your
experience, why is it soimportant we want to make sure
we cover that? And then two,there's this inevitable fear
(04:03):
that comes with it, right? Andhow do we manage that feeling
of saying no or scarcity thattends to come along,
especially in the early daysof trimming down our market?
Pia Silva (04:13):
Yes, well, I've been there too with the fear
that if I narrow my niche,then I'm gonna leave money on
the table because, oh, there'sall these people around that
would hire me if only I wasworking with them. But what
happens is, when you areworking with everybody, you
are not memorable to anyone.So it makes it very hard to
remember who you work with.Remember what you do. In the
(04:35):
early days of my agency, wedid any kind of design work,
branding, design, logos,banners, whatever it was for
any kind of small business orlarge e commerce service
businesses. So why wouldanyone remember me, unless it
was just we need some sort ofdesign work, and they really
liked me, and frankly, I madeit work for a few years on the
(04:59):
fume. Of people liking me andbeing around a lot, but it
wasn't the same kind of pullthat I experienced once I got
really specific. I work withone to three person service
businesses. I built badassbrands in one to three day
intensives. These are thepackages. These are the
prices. All of a sudden,everyone that I spoke to, they
(05:19):
remembered who I worked with.I had a very specific
personality, so that helpedright our company is worst of
all design badass brands thatis not for everyone. So
there's kind of anintersection of these
different things happening.And it meant that when people
that knew me interacted withsomeone who was clearly a fit,
I would come to mindimmediately. It was an easy
(05:40):
intro. So why do we niche?Because we want to empower the
people around us and ouraudience to remember us and
know exactly who to introduceus to. And we want that intro
to feel organic and powerful.It's a really good intro when
you introduce to people whereit's like, Hey, this is
exactly who you work with.Hey, they are specialists in
(06:03):
your kind of business. That'san exciting intro to get. Hey,
they do design for everyone.You said you need a designer.
That's a weak intro, andyou're gonna be at a race to
the bottom when it comes topricing, if that's how you
position yourself.
Unknown (06:16):
It's so true. I heard it said, and it was said in a
very different context, butit's amazing how frequently it
applies some of the mostimportant decisions in your
life, many of them are madewhen you're not in the room,
right? And referrals is such abig one, right? And if we're
not clear on who we are andwhat we do, I spent a lot of
time in the church world, andthere's this saying that if
(06:38):
it's missed in the pulp at thepulpit, it's, I'm sorry if
it's foggy in the pulpit. It'smist in the pews. And there's
this idea that if we're notclear, then it's even less
clear for anyone around us.And you mentioned a word in
there that a lot of folksdon't really associate with
marketing or think orunderstand its power, and that
was pool, right? This ideathere was pool there, but you
(07:02):
ask any entrepreneur, andthey're desperately looking
for momentum, and those two gohand in hand. So what do you
mean by pool, and what doesthat look like when you start
to get this niching down,right?
Pia Silva (07:14):
Well, you know, I say we build badass brands for
our service clients, and abadass brand I define as
having two criticalcharacteristics. And the first
one is it repels as much as itattracts. So that's that pull
branding. I am repellingpeople who are not a good fit,
which is, by the way, the fearthat people have when they
(07:36):
niche. They're scared they'regoing to scare people away. I
want to scare people away,right? I want lots of people
to say that's not a good fitfor me, because only if a
group of people can say that'snot me, can another group of
people be magneticallyattracted to me and say that's
exactly who I need to hire. Sopull branding is ultimately
(07:57):
what we should all aspire to,and one of those pieces is
having a really clear niche.
Unknown (08:03):
Yeah, you've got a really clever question for
getting to the bottom of that,and that is asking yourself,
as an entrepreneur, whenyou're trying to figure this
out, what do I not stand forbut stand against? How'd you
come up with that question,and what are some really
interesting responses thatyou've heard from clients?
Pia Silva (08:22):
Yeah, I love this question, because when it
comes to branding businesses,most branding agencies ask,
What do you stand for, right?And the the answer is,
usually, you know, I stand forhonesty. I stand for
integrity, you know, highvalue. And these are just such
boring, trite answers. Ifeverybody builds their brand
(08:43):
on those answers, all thebrands are going to look the
same. But when you askyourself, what do I stand
against? It forces you tofigure out what you really
care about, because when youask people what they don't
like, they get a lot moreheated. They get there's a
little more fire in theirbelly, and it's a great way to
find some opportunities fordistinction. So for example,
(09:06):
why did we stand against allthe BS and waste that I was
experiencing doing thesetraditional branding clients
that would take months andmonths and months, and I was
chasing clients and scopecreep, and it was a headache,
and ultimately, I didn't feellike the client got the best
result. So badass brandswithout the Bs is really
(09:29):
founded on the idea that Istand against the way that all
of these agencies aredelivering, including how my
agency was delivering, andthat allowed me to go, wow.
Well, then the opposite ofthat is like, no BS, and our
entire brand needs to embodythat, from the way that we
talk to the process that wetake our clients through.
Unknown (09:48):
Yeah, I love that because, you know, even for
something as simple as likeresearch, for this show, we
look at coach websites all thetime. Look at client websites,
and they're so. Boring. It'slike, there's so little that I
can tell, like some of ourbest guests, I've been worried
about the interview, becauseit's like, it's so boring. And
(10:09):
then we get them online, andyou get their real
personality, and you get theirlike, their real story and
their passion, and it's justIt's remarkable. And why do
you think it's so common forus to bury that like, you get
it in person, and then as soonas it goes to written form or
any other format, it's like,it's all the same. Why do we
do that?
Pia Silva (10:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's really the crux of what
I've always done, brandingbusinesses, because we work
with one to three personservice businesses. They're
experts, they're they are thecore reason that people hire
them. So I also have seen thatall the time in person, this
person is dynamic. They'reexciting, they're interesting
online. Well, this is why Ithink it happens people are
(10:50):
scared. They're scared to sayanything that's going to turn
people off, not understandingthat the reason that people
hire them in person is thereason that they're going to
hire them online. So it's aopportunity missed, but also,
usually people's brands aregoing to be informed by them
and what they think it shouldlook like. And a lot of people
(11:10):
will build a brand and awebsite or write their own
copy based on what they thinkwriting should sound like,
because they're notcopywriters, and you know,
part of my job is to pull outfrom people, no, this is
what's interesting and specialabout you, and give them some
branding mess, some brandmessaging that they probably
(11:31):
feel a little uncomfortableabout, but that is exactly
them, and then encourage andcoach them into really
embracing that. I'vedefinitely pushed clients into
saying stuff that, they go,Oh, I don't know if I can say
that. And they say, that'sexactly why you need to say
it, because that's what'sgonna get people's attention.
And it's authentic. I don'twant you to say it just
(11:53):
because it's gonna getattention, but it's authentic
to you and it will getattention. And that's, you
know, well, that's the chef'skiss.
Unknown (12:00):
I love that. So you started off the show with
this, this idea thatSimplicity is key, and we've
talked a lot about why it'sit's so helpful in the sales
process, right? Making youmore memorable, making it
easier to recommend you. Makeit easier to sell what you do,
what I found. One of thethings that was really
interesting is I wasinterviewing different coaches
early in my coaching career, Istarted to notice there was
(12:24):
this really, really big gapbetween what I would call,
like a high demand coach,folks that were doing really,
really well, completelybooked, you know, 500,000 plus
an hour, and the average coachin the US is like $68,000
something like that. It's justtwo tremendously different
groups of people, and itwasn't because of how smart
(12:45):
they were. It wasn't becauseof their background or their
experience. The one thing thatwas almost universally present
in high demand coaches anduniversally absent in low
demand coaches was astructured process for
delivering what they did. Justyou could slice it right down
the middle, and, and you talka lot about this, and have a
very interesting way of doingthis for yourself. From a
(13:06):
branding perspective, whathave you found is so important
about this idea of structuringwhat you do and, and how's
that showed up and helped yourclients?
Pia Silva (13:17):
Yeah, well, in the creative services world,
people are not buying theycan't see the product that
they're buying, right? We'reactually buying a promise that
you're going to createsomething amazing for us. We
can look at your past work andsay, we like it. We don't know
what you're going to make forus. It's the same in coaching,
I'm buying the promise thatthis person is going to help
(13:39):
me get the outcome. I'mlooking for it. Get the
transformation I'm lookingfor. So how are we going to
feel secure and safe thatwe're going to get that
outcome because we can't seeit. It's not like walking into
a store trying a pair ofpants. These are the pants I'm
buying. Well, a process and astructured a structured
process, something you've doneover and over again gives the
(14:01):
client that trust. It tellsthem I have done this before,
the same way to get theseresults. So you can trust me
and the process. Now, what wedo inside that process for us,
every brand is custom. It'sspecific to the client, but
the process is the same, so weknow we'll get the outcome.
And that's what those coachesare selling to they're saying,
(14:23):
I have a process I'm going totake you to through to get you
that result. And since youwant that result, how are you
going to believe I'm going toget you there? Process does a
lot of the heavy lifting.
Unknown (14:34):
Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. So pulling this
together, we're niching downthat allows us to simplify
what we offer and simplifyingwhat we offer, we can create a
consistent process. All ofthat builds competence and
confidence for us, buildstrust with clients, delivers
awesome results. But the onething that I want to add to
(14:55):
that, that I picked up fromyour book is what I think at
some point in time you. Calledthe most important word in
business. I may have got thatwrong, but I think that I
remember that and and it wasyes, no. I'm kidding. It was
no. And so we've kind ofalluded to how this happens.
But why is no so important?And what are we saying no to
in this stage?
Pia Silva (15:17):
Oh my gosh, we're saying to we're saying no to
everything except the thingsthat you need to do to move
your business forward. We'resaying no to the wrong
clients. We're saying no toactivities that aren't
directly supporting thebuilding of our value, our
skills, our marketing, oursales. It is so hard for
(15:39):
people to say no in thebeginning a lot. I think,
because there's a lot ofpeople pleasers out there,
there's a feeling. I havestudents of mine who say, you
know, this person isn't a goodfit. Is there a nice way to
tell them that I'm like, it'snice to say, you're not a good
fit. You don't you don't haveto help everybody it. In fact,
it's more helpful to say, youknow, maybe I could help you,
(16:03):
but I'm not the best person tohelp you. You don't have to be
mean saying no, but you gottasay no, because there's an
opportunity cost every timeyou take a client or a project
that isn't within your niche.What is with that doesn't work
within your existing process?It creates a lot of waste. It
creates a lot of extra timeand getting in the habit of
(16:26):
saying no to things so you canput your limited hours in a
day, there's only 24 hours ina day. Put that time and
energy towards the things thatare really gonna matter.
That's how you're gonna moveyour business forward.
Unknown (16:37):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I love that. It's
so powerful. It's so hard todo sometimes, especially when
you already have the clientand there's relationship and
there's all that. It's, it canbe a bit to untangle, but it's
worth it?
Pia Silva (16:49):
But it's addictive. I will say, do it the easiest.
Unknown (16:54):
Yes, yes, yes. That's, it's, it's, yeah,
it's, it's a virtuous cycle,right? The closer we get, the
more likely they are to refer,the more likely they are to
refer, and the more likelythey are to refer. The right
people, the more of the rightpeople we get. And it just it
cycles. And cycles can feelintimidating to get that cycle
going, but it's powerful onceyou do. So Pia, there's a
(17:16):
question that I ask all myguests, and I'm very, very
intrigued to see what you haveto say about it. So the
question's this, what wouldyou say is the biggest secret
that you wish wasn't a secretat all? What's that one thing
you wish everybody watching orlistening today knew?
Pia Silva (17:31):
I wish they knew that. Well, I kind of shared
it, but it's the mostimportant one that repelling
people is one of your biggestopportunities and strengths. I
think everybody should embracethat and lean into it. And I
know that if you're,especially if you're in a
business where you'restruggling, that's the thing
(17:52):
you're trying to do the least,and I want you to lean into
it.
Unknown (17:55):
Yeah, it's so good, so good, so counterintuitive
at first, but it just startsto make so much sense so
quickly. Pia, fantastic,fantastic advice for folks,
not just for the brandingworld, not just for the
coaching world, butentrepreneurs across the
board, so much that they canget out of this. For
particularly those in thebranding world who want to
(18:16):
know more about the work thatyou do, where can they find
more and connect with you?
Pia Silva (18:21):
Yeah, well, I actually brought your
listeners a little gift. Youmentioned my book, and thank
you so much for reading it andmentioning it. It's called
badass, your brand, and Iactually recently put it on a
private audio feed. If you'reinterested in learning more
about how we basically built ahalf a million dollar business
just two people working lessthan 50% of our time. You can
(18:42):
go tonoBSagencies.com/secrets, and
you can grab a free copy ofthe audio. You can, of course,
go buy it on Amazon or grabthe audible, but I thought I
would give that to yourlisteners.
Scott Ritzheimer (18:54):
That's amazing. As someone who read
it and doesn't lead a one ortwo person agency. There was a
ton that I got out of itpersonally. So don't let that
intimidate you. And if you arein branding or anywhere close
to it, it's a must read. Ireally do believe that. Pia,
thanks for being on the show.Really appreciate that and the
offer that you made here foreveryone. Head over to
noBSagencies.com/secrets.We'll put that in the show
(19:17):
notes for you. Get a copy ofher book. Get it on Amazon.
You won't regret it. But Pia,again, thank you for being on
the show really an honor andprivilege for anyone, everyone
who's listening today. Youknow your time and attention
mean the world to us. I hopeyou got as much out of this
conversation as I know I did,and I cannot wait to see you
next time. Take Care.
Pia Silva (19:37):
Thank you so much, Scott.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to
(00:02):
the secrets of the high demandcoach podcast. And here with
us today is yet another highdemand coach and leader in the
one and only, Pia silverSilva, who is an entrepreneur,
speaker and author and a smallbranding agency, coach, a
partner and a brandstrategist. At worst of all,
design, we're gonna have tounpack that where they build
badass brands without the BS.In 2021 she founded no BS
(00:26):
agency mastery, a trainingprogram where she teaches one
and two person brandingagencies how to create 30 to
$50,000 in revenue a monthwhile reducing their workload
by up to 80% and doing all ofit without employees. She is
also the author of the bestselling book badass, your
brand, the impatiententrepreneurs guide to turning
(00:47):
expertise into profit, and hasdelivered a popular TED talk
on cultivating TrueConfidence. She's here with us
today. Pia, welcome to theshow. So excited to have you
here. One thing that jumpedout as we were going through
your bio again, and I've readit so many times that, but
it's the first time it jumpedout is a lot of folks feel
like to scale. They have toadd Right? Like it has to be
(01:11):
more they have to be moreemployees. There has to be
more stuff. There have to bemore services. And very much a
big part of your message isthat's not true. To do 30 and
$50,000 a month, you don'tneed to have employees. Why is
it so important to recognizethat before going out and
trying to build, you know, thenext version of your company?
Pia Silva (01:32):
I mean, listen, when you're a small business,
Simplicity is key. I think ifentrepreneurs listening out
there when, when you're anentrepreneur, there are just
endless things to do. I thinkwe all feel a little frenetic,
especially because there's somuch information online, it's
like there's too many thingsto do. And simplification is
how we focus, not only ourtime and our energy, so that
(01:53):
the things that we actuallydo, do, you know, get the
attention that they deserveand the care that they
deserve, which levels up thevalue of what you're putting
out. But it also means thatyour audience is going to
really understand who you workwith, how you work with them.
It makes you more referable.It makes you more memorable. I
mean, you know, I think theidea of we need to add product
(02:17):
lines or have more offers workwith more people, that's
something you do when you're,I don't even know, 10 to 50,
$100 million company. We'resmall businesses. There are
plenty of clients to go aroundwhen you go super niche in
your market and your offer,and it's gonna make your life
a lot easier, and it's gonnamake your offers a lot more
profitable, which is what I'mall about.
Unknown (02:37):
Yeah, I love that. You have a problem if you have
more product lines thanpeople, right? That's just,
that's usually, that's usuallyproblematic. And here's what I
love about what you do.There's so many people who are
in that I call it the startupentrepreneur stage, and it's
them, and they look down onthemselves because it's just
them. And so they go out andthey kind of build their
(02:59):
company in a way that requiresthem to get more employees,
and then they wake up andthey're like, what's wrong
with these people? I don'twant to manage all of these
folks and what you offer,particularly in the agency
world, but there's somethingfor everyone to learn here, is
that you don't have to addpeople to add profit to add
(03:19):
and you don't have to tradehours for dollars. There is
another way. In other words,you can optimize for that
stage. You don't have to leaveit behind and graduate to the
next. It's really, reallycool. So one of the things
that jumped out for me as Iwas going through your work,
and this is something I'mconstantly working with, our
coaches, on our scalearchitects, is this idea of
(03:40):
niching down right? Andeveryone's heard that.
Everyone you know kind ofknows that, but so few of us
do it, particularly in thisstage. And so the big question
that I have for you is, firstoff, just from your
experience, why is it soimportant we want to make sure
we cover that? And then two,there's this inevitable fear
(04:03):
that comes with it, right? Andhow do we manage that feeling
of saying no or scarcity thattends to come along,
especially in the early daysof trimming down our market?
Pia Silva (04:13):
Yes, well, I've been there too with the fear
that if I narrow my niche,then I'm gonna leave money on
the table because, oh, there'sall these people around that
would hire me if only I wasworking with them. But what
happens is, when you areworking with everybody, you
are not memorable to anyone.So it makes it very hard to
remember who you work with.Remember what you do. In the
(04:35):
early days of my agency, wedid any kind of design work,
branding, design, logos,banners, whatever it was for
any kind of small business orlarge e commerce service
businesses. So why wouldanyone remember me, unless it
was just we need some sort ofdesign work, and they really
liked me, and frankly, I madeit work for a few years on the
(04:59):
fume. Of people liking me andbeing around a lot, but it
wasn't the same kind of pullthat I experienced once I got
really specific. I work withone to three person service
businesses. I built badassbrands in one to three day
intensives. These are thepackages. These are the
prices. All of a sudden,everyone that I spoke to, they
(05:19):
remembered who I worked with.I had a very specific
personality, so that helpedright our company is worst of
all design badass brands thatis not for everyone. So
there's kind of anintersection of these
different things happening.And it meant that when people
that knew me interacted withsomeone who was clearly a fit,
I would come to mindimmediately. It was an easy
(05:40):
intro. So why do we niche?Because we want to empower the
people around us and ouraudience to remember us and
know exactly who to introduceus to. And we want that intro
to feel organic and powerful.It's a really good intro when
you introduce to people whereit's like, Hey, this is
exactly who you work with.Hey, they are specialists in
(06:03):
your kind of business. That'san exciting intro to get. Hey,
they do design for everyone.You said you need a designer.
That's a weak intro, andyou're gonna be at a race to
the bottom when it comes topricing, if that's how you
position yourself.
Unknown (06:16):
It's so true. I heard it said, and it was said in a
very different context, butit's amazing how frequently it
applies some of the mostimportant decisions in your
life, many of them are madewhen you're not in the room,
right? And referrals is such abig one, right? And if we're
not clear on who we are andwhat we do, I spent a lot of
time in the church world, andthere's this saying that if
(06:38):
it's missed in the pulp at thepulpit, it's, I'm sorry if
it's foggy in the pulpit. It'smist in the pews. And there's
this idea that if we're notclear, then it's even less
clear for anyone around us.And you mentioned a word in
there that a lot of folksdon't really associate with
marketing or think orunderstand its power, and that
was pool, right? This ideathere was pool there, but you
(07:02):
ask any entrepreneur, andthey're desperately looking
for momentum, and those two gohand in hand. So what do you
mean by pool, and what doesthat look like when you start
to get this niching down,right?
Pia Silva (07:14):
Well, you know, I say we build badass brands for
our service clients, and abadass brand I define as
having two criticalcharacteristics. And the first
one is it repels as much as itattracts. So that's that pull
branding. I am repellingpeople who are not a good fit,
which is, by the way, the fearthat people have when they
(07:36):
niche. They're scared they'regoing to scare people away. I
want to scare people away,right? I want lots of people
to say that's not a good fitfor me, because only if a
group of people can say that'snot me, can another group of
people be magneticallyattracted to me and say that's
exactly who I need to hire. Sopull branding is ultimately
(07:57):
what we should all aspire to,and one of those pieces is
having a really clear niche.
Unknown (08:03):
Yeah, you've got a really clever question for
getting to the bottom of that,and that is asking yourself,
as an entrepreneur, whenyou're trying to figure this
out, what do I not stand forbut stand against? How'd you
come up with that question,and what are some really
interesting responses thatyou've heard from clients?
Pia Silva (08:22):
Yeah, I love this question, because when it
comes to branding businesses,most branding agencies ask,
What do you stand for, right?And the the answer is,
usually, you know, I stand forhonesty. I stand for
integrity, you know, highvalue. And these are just such
boring, trite answers. Ifeverybody builds their brand
(08:43):
on those answers, all thebrands are going to look the
same. But when you askyourself, what do I stand
against? It forces you tofigure out what you really
care about, because when youask people what they don't
like, they get a lot moreheated. They get there's a
little more fire in theirbelly, and it's a great way to
find some opportunities fordistinction. So for example,
(09:06):
why did we stand against allthe BS and waste that I was
experiencing doing thesetraditional branding clients
that would take months andmonths and months, and I was
chasing clients and scopecreep, and it was a headache,
and ultimately, I didn't feellike the client got the best
result. So badass brandswithout the Bs is really
(09:29):
founded on the idea that Istand against the way that all
of these agencies aredelivering, including how my
agency was delivering, andthat allowed me to go, wow.
Well, then the opposite ofthat is like, no BS, and our
entire brand needs to embodythat, from the way that we
talk to the process that wetake our clients through.
Unknown (09:48):
Yeah, I love that because, you know, even for
something as simple as likeresearch, for this show, we
look at coach websites all thetime. Look at client websites,
and they're so. Boring. It'slike, there's so little that I
can tell, like some of ourbest guests, I've been worried
about the interview, becauseit's like, it's so boring. And
(10:09):
then we get them online, andyou get their real
personality, and you get theirlike, their real story and
their passion, and it's justIt's remarkable. And why do
you think it's so common forus to bury that like, you get
it in person, and then as soonas it goes to written form or
any other format, it's like,it's all the same. Why do we
do that?
Pia Silva (10:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's really the crux of what
I've always done, brandingbusinesses, because we work
with one to three personservice businesses. They're
experts, they're they are thecore reason that people hire
them. So I also have seen thatall the time in person, this
person is dynamic. They'reexciting, they're interesting
online. Well, this is why Ithink it happens people are
(10:50):
scared. They're scared to sayanything that's going to turn
people off, not understandingthat the reason that people
hire them in person is thereason that they're going to
hire them online. So it's aopportunity missed, but also,
usually people's brands aregoing to be informed by them
and what they think it shouldlook like. And a lot of people
(11:10):
will build a brand and awebsite or write their own
copy based on what they thinkwriting should sound like,
because they're notcopywriters, and you know,
part of my job is to pull outfrom people, no, this is
what's interesting and specialabout you, and give them some
branding mess, some brandmessaging that they probably
(11:31):
feel a little uncomfortableabout, but that is exactly
them, and then encourage andcoach them into really
embracing that. I'vedefinitely pushed clients into
saying stuff that, they go,Oh, I don't know if I can say
that. And they say, that'sexactly why you need to say
it, because that's what'sgonna get people's attention.
And it's authentic. I don'twant you to say it just
(11:53):
because it's gonna getattention, but it's authentic
to you and it will getattention. And that's, you
know, well, that's the chef'skiss.
Unknown (12:00):
I love that. So you started off the show with
this, this idea thatSimplicity is key, and we've
talked a lot about why it'sit's so helpful in the sales
process, right? Making youmore memorable, making it
easier to recommend you. Makeit easier to sell what you do,
what I found. One of thethings that was really
interesting is I wasinterviewing different coaches
early in my coaching career, Istarted to notice there was
(12:24):
this really, really big gapbetween what I would call,
like a high demand coach,folks that were doing really,
really well, completelybooked, you know, 500,000 plus
an hour, and the average coachin the US is like $68,000
something like that. It's justtwo tremendously different
groups of people, and itwasn't because of how smart
(12:45):
they were. It wasn't becauseof their background or their
experience. The one thing thatwas almost universally present
in high demand coaches anduniversally absent in low
demand coaches was astructured process for
delivering what they did. Justyou could slice it right down
the middle, and, and you talka lot about this, and have a
very interesting way of doingthis for yourself. From a
(13:06):
branding perspective, whathave you found is so important
about this idea of structuringwhat you do and, and how's
that showed up and helped yourclients?
Pia Silva (13:17):
Yeah, well, in the creative services world,
people are not buying theycan't see the product that
they're buying, right? We'reactually buying a promise that
you're going to createsomething amazing for us. We
can look at your past work andsay, we like it. We don't know
what you're going to make forus. It's the same in coaching,
I'm buying the promise thatthis person is going to help
(13:39):
me get the outcome. I'mlooking for it. Get the
transformation I'm lookingfor. So how are we going to
feel secure and safe thatwe're going to get that
outcome because we can't seeit. It's not like walking into
a store trying a pair ofpants. These are the pants I'm
buying. Well, a process and astructured a structured
process, something you've doneover and over again gives the
(14:01):
client that trust. It tellsthem I have done this before,
the same way to get theseresults. So you can trust me
and the process. Now, what wedo inside that process for us,
every brand is custom. It'sspecific to the client, but
the process is the same, so weknow we'll get the outcome.
And that's what those coachesare selling to they're saying,
(14:23):
I have a process I'm going totake you to through to get you
that result. And since youwant that result, how are you
going to believe I'm going toget you there? Process does a
lot of the heavy lifting.
Unknown (14:34):
Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. So pulling this
together, we're niching downthat allows us to simplify
what we offer and simplifyingwhat we offer, we can create a
consistent process. All ofthat builds competence and
confidence for us, buildstrust with clients, delivers
awesome results. But the onething that I want to add to
(14:55):
that, that I picked up fromyour book is what I think at
some point in time you. Calledthe most important word in
business. I may have got thatwrong, but I think that I
remember that and and it wasyes, no. I'm kidding. It was
no. And so we've kind ofalluded to how this happens.
But why is no so important?And what are we saying no to
in this stage?
Pia Silva (15:17):
Oh my gosh, we're saying to we're saying no to
everything except the thingsthat you need to do to move
your business forward. We'resaying no to the wrong
clients. We're saying no toactivities that aren't
directly supporting thebuilding of our value, our
skills, our marketing, oursales. It is so hard for
(15:39):
people to say no in thebeginning a lot. I think,
because there's a lot ofpeople pleasers out there,
there's a feeling. I havestudents of mine who say, you
know, this person isn't a goodfit. Is there a nice way to
tell them that I'm like, it'snice to say, you're not a good
fit. You don't you don't haveto help everybody it. In fact,
it's more helpful to say, youknow, maybe I could help you,
(16:03):
but I'm not the best person tohelp you. You don't have to be
mean saying no, but you gottasay no, because there's an
opportunity cost every timeyou take a client or a project
that isn't within your niche.What is with that doesn't work
within your existing process?It creates a lot of waste. It
creates a lot of extra timeand getting in the habit of
(16:26):
saying no to things so you canput your limited hours in a
day, there's only 24 hours ina day. Put that time and
energy towards the things thatare really gonna matter.
That's how you're gonna moveyour business forward.
Unknown (16:37):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I love that. It's
so powerful. It's so hard todo sometimes, especially when
you already have the clientand there's relationship and
there's all that. It's, it canbe a bit to untangle, but it's
worth it?
Pia Silva (16:49):
But it's addictive. I will say, do it the easiest.
Unknown (16:54):
Yes, yes, yes. That's, it's, it's, yeah,
it's, it's a virtuous cycle,right? The closer we get, the
more likely they are to refer,the more likely they are to
refer, and the more likelythey are to refer. The right
people, the more of the rightpeople we get. And it just it
cycles. And cycles can feelintimidating to get that cycle
going, but it's powerful onceyou do. So Pia, there's a
(17:16):
question that I ask all myguests, and I'm very, very
intrigued to see what you haveto say about it. So the
question's this, what wouldyou say is the biggest secret
that you wish wasn't a secretat all? What's that one thing
you wish everybody watching orlistening today knew?
Pia Silva (17:31):
I wish they knew that. Well, I kind of shared
it, but it's the mostimportant one that repelling
people is one of your biggestopportunities and strengths. I
think everybody should embracethat and lean into it. And I
know that if you're,especially if you're in a
business where you'restruggling, that's the thing
(17:52):
you're trying to do the least,and I want you to lean into
it.
Unknown (17:55):
Yeah, it's so good, so good, so counterintuitive
at first, but it just startsto make so much sense so
quickly. Pia, fantastic,fantastic advice for folks,
not just for the brandingworld, not just for the
coaching world, butentrepreneurs across the
board, so much that they canget out of this. For
particularly those in thebranding world who want to
(18:16):
know more about the work thatyou do, where can they find
more and connect with you?
Pia Silva (18:21):
Yeah, well, I actually brought your
listeners a little gift. Youmentioned my book, and thank
you so much for reading it andmentioning it. It's called
badass, your brand, and Iactually recently put it on a
private audio feed. If you'reinterested in learning more
about how we basically built ahalf a million dollar business
just two people working lessthan 50% of our time. You can
(18:42):
go tonoBSagencies.com/secrets, and
you can grab a free copy ofthe audio. You can, of course,
go buy it on Amazon or grabthe audible, but I thought I
would give that to yourlisteners.
Scott Ritzheimer (18:54):
That's amazing. As someone who read
it and doesn't lead a one ortwo person agency. There was a
ton that I got out of itpersonally. So don't let that
intimidate you. And if you arein branding or anywhere close
to it, it's a must read. Ireally do believe that. Pia,
thanks for being on the show.Really appreciate that and the
offer that you made here foreveryone. Head over to
noBSagencies.com/secrets.We'll put that in the show
(19:17):
notes for you. Get a copy ofher book. Get it on Amazon.
You won't regret it. But Pia,again, thank you for being on
the show really an honor andprivilege for anyone, everyone
who's listening today. Youknow your time and attention
mean the world to us. I hopeyou got as much out of this
conversation as I know I did,and I cannot wait to see you
next time. Take Care.
Pia Silva (19:37):
Thank you so much, Scott.
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