In this powerful episode, Schuyler Williamson shares how you can lead steadily through chaos using proven models. If you’re struggling with overwhelm, or if you feel chaos derails your leadership, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
- Why steady leadership ensures clarity in chaotic growth stages (and how he learned it from a direct hit by an IED)
- How to use combat readiness to lead yourself amidst uncertainty
- What clear vision communication does to align your growing team
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stages 2,3,4 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Schuyler Williamson is a leadership expert, entrepreneur, and decorated military veteran who has consistently achieved the highest business and service levels. As the author of The Steady Leader: Leadership Models That Bring Clarity to Chaos, Schuyler provides actionable strategies for leading through uncertainty, drawing from his experience as a Bronze Star Medal recipient and combat officer with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. A top West Point and McCombs MBA graduate, Schuyler ranks in the top 1 percent of real estate agents nationwide, with hundreds of millions in sales and ownership of over fifty-five investment properties.
Want to learn more about Schuyler Williamson's work at Williamson Group Real Estate? Check out his website at thesteadyleader.com or https://www.schuylerwilliamson.com/
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
(00:02):
again to the secrets of thehigh demand coach podcast. And
here with us today is the oneand only, Schuyler Williamson,
who's a leadership expert,entrepreneur and decorated
military veteran who hasconsistently achieved the
highest business and servicelevels as author of the steady
leader leadership models thatbring clarity to chaos.
(00:22):
Schuyler provides actionablestrategies for leading through
uncertainty, drawing from hisexperience as a Bronze Star
Medal recipient and combatofficer with deployments to
both Iraq and Afghanistan,he's also a top West Point and
McCombs MBA graduate. Schuylerranks in the top 1% of real
estate agents nationwide, withhundreds of millions in sales
(00:45):
and ownership of over 55investment properties. And
he's here with us today. So ifthere's anyone, I just have to
set this up. If there's anyonelistening who thinks there's
anything soft about theconversation you're about to
hear about being a steadyleader or all that entails,
you're in for a real treat. SoSchuyler, I'm wondering if we
could first off, welcome tothe show. But I'm wondering if
(01:07):
we could just put that myth tobed right out of the gate,
because you opened your bookwith a very compelling and
powerful story that really ledyou to this kind of journey of
being a steady leader. Couldyou tell us a little bit about
that experience, what happenedand how it got you to where
you are today.
Schuyler Williamson (01:24):
Yeah, thanks, Scott. Well, I'm
grateful to be here and forthe listeners and and look,
I'm just grateful to be anAmerican, first and foremost.
Yeah. So I was in Baghdad,Iraq, and, you know, I was an
officer leading an infantryplatoon in an area of Baghdad
that was controlled by alQaeda. Yeah. In fact, al Qaeda
(01:47):
was very public about it thatthis would be the last place
that they would lose inBaghdad if they were going to
be driven out. And so it was.It was a very difficult area.
There was lots of contact. Andyou know, al Qaeda is weapon
of choice at the time, was theimprovised explosive device,
or the IED, and we were on anormal patrol. It was a
(02:11):
security patrol, so we werejust in the streets making
sure that, essentially, thelocal populace could live
their lives without theinfluence of the terrorists.
And my sister platoon, justabout, you know, five miles
away was attacked, and theattack was successful. So they
had casualties, multiplevehicles disabled. The
(02:33):
soldiers were fighting. And,you know, I wish I could say
that that was rare, but, youknow, every day we kind of had
these encounters. I mean, mostof the time you're fighting
your own fights, but in thisscenario, when a friendly
force is pinned down and needssupport, you really don't wait
for someone to tell you tomove. You know, you move, and
(02:54):
that's what that's what the USsoldiers do. And so we, I gave
the command for our unit tomove that way. And, you know,
as a leader, maybe our firstkind of topic here is you have
a choice, and both choices cantake you to the completing the
vision. And one choice mightbe the faster way, but there's
(03:16):
more risk, right? So thereturn is getting there faster
and but there, you know,there's more risk of getting
hurt along the way. And thenthere's the safer way, where,
you know, you'll get there,but it'll just take longer.
Well, lives were at stake. Itook the route that was the
fastest one there, knowingthat there was a lot of risk
in doing that. You know theenemy would have it that they
(03:39):
detonated a very accurate andvery effective IED on my
platoon as we were moving togo support them. Now we were
blessed in a way that theydidn't follow up that attack
with more like the othersister platoon. They were
still under attack at themoment, but the bomb that they
blew up on us was veryeffective, and it hit my truck
(04:01):
direct. It hit the the door ofmy personal vehicle. And I
just, you know, just to sharea little bit of the
ingredients here, I I rememberkind of coming to my truck was
full of dust, which means thatshrapnel was actually able to
get into the vehicle right?Because those those vehicles
(04:22):
were pretty airtight with thethe armor that we'd put in
there at the time. So shrapnelgot into the vehicle. It was
full of dust. I had. I had twoguys behind me screaming. My
gunner in the turret wascompletely knocked out, and my
driver was actually conscious.I could see blood coming from
his ears because he didn'thave earplugs in and, and he
(04:43):
was trying to crank thevehicle. The vehicle had
stalled. And when I realizedwhat was going on, you know, I
had the ringing and the fog ofwar at the moment, but when I
realized what was going on,you know, everybody was
yelling over the radio and,and I. Pause the story right
there in the book. And yeah,we were we were extraordinary
(05:07):
as a unit. My team was verythey were trained very well. I
had great leadership. I hadgreat soldiers, smart,
capable, athletic soldiers,and we were lethal. But it
doesn't matter how good youare, chaos is going to find
you, and chaos found me deadon with that, with the impact
of that bomb. And my mainpoint is, is that just because
(05:31):
it's a chaotic moment, or justbecause you're hurt now, I
fractured my shin, and thatjust because you're hurt
doesn't mean that you don'tget the lead right. It's
assess the situation, puttogether a plan, and then make
a make a command and move out.And so I, you know, I, what I
tried to do in this book waskind of take people through
(05:52):
the process that I lead myselfthrough, so that even when
it's the most chaotic time,you could still be a steady
leader, because you still gotto lead it just just because
it's chaotic doesn't mean youhave to. You can just kind of
hit at my house, we call it Tbut like, timeout, right? You
don't get to call time out,none. You got to keep making
great decisions.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:12):
Such a phenomenal story and really
highlights, in a dramaticsense, the value of being a
steady leader and the cost tothat, right? It doesn't come
easy, doesn't come cheap, butit has the bigger the risk,
right? The bigger thechallenge, the greater the
chaos, the bigger the reward.And there's a bit of a leap
(06:34):
over the beginning of the bookthat doesn't seem obvious at
first, but is the obviousanswer. And we move from like
this, this high drama, highimpact, to this discussion of
models, right? And the book ingeneral is kind of built on
this idea that models arereally the way forward. So
(06:54):
it's one of those things thatcan mean a lot of things to a
lot of people. Someone justwhat is a model and and, more
specifically, what is therelationship of model to
innovation?
Schuyler Williamson (07:06):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think about
it kind of starts back at thedefinition of leadership, you
know. And I subscribe to two,you know, mega leaders out
there, and their definitions.One is John Maxwell, and he
says it simply, leadership isinfluence. And then, you know,
Gary Keller writes in his bookthat leadership is teaching
(07:27):
people how to think so thatthey can get what they want,
and then you get what you wantbecause of that. And so if
you're if you're boilingleadership down to being
influential in thinking andthinking well and teaching
people how to think, thenyou're gonna, you're gonna
come back to this concept ofmodels. The second thing is
(07:47):
just, I believe that thesolution to chaos is clarity,
which comes back again tothinking. And so Tony Robbins
said it well, that, you know,you should stand on the
shoulders of giants. And Ithink, he got it from someone
else, but, you know, again, hedeploys models, right when he
teaches. And so when you standon the shoulders of giants to
(08:08):
accomplish what you're tryingto accomplish, really, what
he's saying is start withsomething that you already
know is successful, yeah, andthen innovate on top of that
based on what makes youunique, right? Your unique
abilities, your products,Unique Selling aspects, or
your services, unique valueproposition. But start with
you know what works, and thengo from there. And models are
(08:32):
a much more solid foundationto build on top of than
innovation. Innovationsunproven. It's risky. You
know, you don't have a lot ofdata. You don't know if it's
gonna so if you start to builda company on top of
innovation, that's a that's areal risky kind of foundation,
right? So I just assume, startwith something that you know
works, and then innovate ontop of that. And so this idea
(08:56):
of a model mindset as aleader, everywhere I go, I'm
thinking, what's the modelhere? Like, I go to the
grocery store, and I'm like,man, not only how did they get
me in this grocery store, butlook at all these people in
here. How do they get them inhere? I know they have an
advertising model. I know theyhave a marketing model. Like,
what is their model? And Istart to think about and then
I go, Oh, well, can I applythat to my business? You know?
(09:18):
And I'm just doing that alleverywhere I go now.
Scott Ritzheimer (09:21):
Yeah, I love that. I love that mindset,
principles, a similar, similarapproach. There are patterns
that are playing out over andover again. So I want to walk
through because there's threekind of big parts of this book
that you've put together,leading yourself, leading your
team and leading your company.And interestingly, they kind
(09:42):
of align with this journeythat founders face of working
by themself, leadingthemselves, working with a
small team, leading theirteam, and ultimately growing a
successful company. And so Ikind of want to walk through
these both in terms of kind ofleveling up your leadership
and building onto. Of thefoundations and models you
have early on, and then alsowhat that looks like over
(10:04):
time. So we'll start at thebeginning. Early on, founders
are often wearing every hat.They probably have very big
dreams, but if they're honest,they're barely keeping it
together. So what's, what'sone of the models from the the
leading yourself that can helpthem to do that, to lead
themselves and study the shipwhen everything else feels
(10:25):
like it's like moving all overthe place and they're
wondering, What have I gottenmyself into? Yeah,
Schuyler Williamson (10:30):
Yeah. Well, the model that I like
the most is what we used tocall combat ready in the
military. And combat readymeans, when given a mission,
you're ready to step offimmediately. So you're
trained, you're equipped,you're motivated, you know
you're ready to go now,applying that to yourself,
leading yourself, the way thatI think about is, Are you
(10:52):
healthy, right? Are youhealthy to the max potential
so that you can go be the bestleader you can be for your
team every single day. And Ilike to break it down into
three components. Are youmentally healthy? Are you
physically healthy? Are youin? Are you spiritually
healthy? And I think of itlike a four legged stool with
(11:12):
mental and physical being oneleg each, and then spiritual
being two legs and so on. Theon the mental piece. I'm not
talking about it in like theclinical sense of it, to me,
mental health is you have agrowth mindset, right? That
you're hungry to be more todaythan you were yesterday, and
(11:32):
that not all of you hungry,but you feed yourself. You
know you're actively lookingto plus yourself up. And so it
takes a little bit ofhumility, but it certainly
takes motivation, and you'repositive too, right? You're
growing the physical healththat's literal your body. Is
your body capable? And I lovethe way that the stoics write
(11:54):
about this, right? When youwake up in the morning, does
your body tell you, Oh, you'retired, get you another 10
minutes of sleep, or don'twork out today you're sore,
or, Hey, you're tired today.So you can go take it halfway
at work. You don't have togive 100% or are you
physically healthy in that youtell your body, get up, it's
time to work out. It's time toexercise, go to work. And not
(12:16):
only are you going to work foreight hours, but this is a day
where you got to double down alittle bit so you're gonna
stay a little bit longer. Imean, are you, is your body an
asset, or is it a liability?In for you as a leader? And
then the last one would justbe spiritual in, you know, in
the whole game of endurance,right? And you need endurance
as an entrepreneur to get fromI do it to we do it spiritual,
(12:42):
health really can give you themost endurance and and I'll
just give you a good measureof spiritual health. When you
wake up in the morning, do youthink about what you're going
to get, or do you think aboutwhat you're going to give to
the world? To the extent thatyou wake up and are excited
about giving to the world.That's how health, that you're
more healthy spiritually. Andso the second that you learn
(13:06):
that this life isn't aboutyou, it's about you know all
God's children, that that'swhen you're starting down the
journey of spiritual health.And leader. Leaders can't be
influenced by the world.Leaders have to be able to
make great decisions outsideof the world's influence. And
again, that's all spiritualhealth there.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:26):
Yeah, it's so true. You talk about the
distinction I do it versus wedo it. And I think there's
this interesting, subtledifference early on, when it's
just you, or maybe a couplepeople around you, where,
especially because of JimCollins and Peter Drucker and
(13:48):
so many folks, there's thisidea every company needs to
have values, right? And I lovevalues. I think they're
awesome, but I think there's asubtle difference early on
between your values andcompany values. And I think we
oftentimes, like, we try toplay a big company game, to
look like we're a big company,right, or to pretend we're a
(14:08):
big company, and we actuallylose the advantage that we
have of they are your values.Like, let them be your values.
Don't try and separate thosetwo. So in that pursuit of
values, would you? Would youagree? Would you say that
those personal values domatter? And if so, how do you
start to unpack that?
Schuyler Williamson (14:27):
Oh, man, I I love the conversation of
values. You know, for me andfor our crew around here, when
we talk about company culture,we say culture is nothing but
just the accumulation ofvalues and beliefs. That's
what it is. And so you'reright, when it's I do it,
well, I am the company. Myvalues are the company values,
but the second that I hiresomeone who has different
(14:49):
values, then the values cometogether, and the ones that
are stronger actually becomethe company's values. You
don't go out and create valueswith. With an aspirational
sense, like you don't createvalues. You come with values.
They are who you are. And soif you want a culture that
looks and acts a certain way,and you need to recruit people
(15:12):
with those values, theyalready have them, because
you're not going to bringsomeone along and just create
values inside of them that youknow, you're not their maker.
And so I, I think that, youknow it starts. It starts with
having an idea of what youwant your company to act like,
what you want the culture tobe. And then during the hiring
practice, making sure thatyou're you're looking for
(15:33):
that, and you have questionsthat bring that to you. And
then, and then you're going tobe gold. Now, I'll just say
one more time. I thinkeverybody knows why values are
important, but just mydefinition of values are, they
drive the way that you operatewhen no one's looking right.
That's the way I look at it.So values are so important, so
that I can be here with youtoday and we can have this
(15:55):
conversation. I know my teamis operating in the
background, and I'm not aroundto answer questions or pay
attention to them, but becauseI know what their values are,
I know why they're, you know,they know the vision of the
company, they know the plan,and they have the values that
are in drive behavior whileI'm not around. You know,
managing them, I'm not a greatmanager, all right, I don't, I
don't care for it. It doesn't,doesn't excite me, and it
(16:17):
doesn't excite my team whenthey're being managed. So I
want great value, so that theyjust run on their own. It's
unbelievable when you have agreat set of values in place.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:25):
Yeah, so good. And it brings me
directly to my next questionhere, because what happens
when when you have success inthat early stage is thrust you
into the next one, and nowyou've got a team running
around you. Everyone's running100 miles an hour, you're
exhausted, maybe they'reexhausted, and it can feel
(16:46):
really, really hard when youdon't feel like you're a great
manager. It's not how you'renaturally wired. It can feel
hard to keep all those platesspinning, and can really lead
to a pretty significantresentment of your team if
you're not careful. So whathave you found to be effective
in in leading a team like thatand allowing you to balance
your job while still studyingthe team that's looking to win
(17:09):
as well?
Schuyler Williamson (17:11):
Yeah, well, I'll just say we're real
quick to violate one of thethings that's most basic in
the infantry in the army,which we call it in the
military, the span of control.So every fire team is three
people and a team leader. Andso we don't expect that team
leader to do anything otherthan manage those three
soldiers ever. It's never morethan three. And that's so that
that soldier can be a leaderand a soldier, right? Any more
(17:35):
men under his control, hewouldn't be able to be a
soldier too. He would just bea leader, and that's it. And
so I think the first thing isjust knowing, based on what
you have to do as a producerin your business, how many
people you actually can lead,and it still be okay, right?
So don't violate that span ofcontrol, which is three to
five people. Now, I believewhen people are frustrated as
(17:59):
a leader of a team more timesthan not, it comes down to
likely the leader is notcommunicating well, but
they're just in general. Onthe team, there's poor
communication, because nothingcan frustrate humans faster
than poor communication,especially when you're trying
to accomplish something big.And so I would just as a
leader, I'd go back and say,Okay, well, am I clear on my
(18:21):
vision, not only the vision ofwhat I want my team to do in
the future, but do I am Iclear on my vision for each
player on the team? Right? Soif we're just thinking about
football, my vision for whatthat quarterback looks like is
going to be very differentthan that left tackle, right,
right? They're both onoffense. They're both trying
to score a touchdown, but thevision for each position is
(18:41):
different. And so as a leader,you can't just have one
blanket vision and assign itto everybody. You got to have
many visions for each playeron the team. And and I would
just say, like, Am I clear andam I communicating that to the
team often enough so that theyknow where we're going?
Because if Shame on them ifthey're getting frustrated on
(19:01):
going where we're moving andnot bringing up, hey, there's
big issues with this. Youknow, they need to voice that
now. They're going out andtrying to do a great job, and
they do it way out in leftfield, and you're frustrated
as a leader, like, why are youworking so hard going out in
left field, and they want tobe patted on the back because
they just gave it all thiseffort. Look how far I've
(19:22):
gotten us. Well, man, theydon't We don't know where
we're going, and so yeah,we're going to be frustrated.
The Vision's not clear. So Iusually come back to
communication and specificallyvision, because if you got
great people on your team, andthey've got a clear vision,
even without a plan, sometimesthey'll still get you there,
it'll be a mess on the way.Lord, but they know where
they're going, so they'll getyou there. That's what a
(19:44):
players do.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:44):
Yeah, it's so, so true, especially at the
team level. So I want to fastforward again. We're a little
further down the road. Yoursmall team has become a bigger
team. It's not just youleading everybody. It's you
leading leaders and who might.Even be leading leaders
themselves. And one of thethings that was most
surprising and dishearteningto me when I was going through
(20:07):
this as an entrepreneurmyself, was I found that
businesses get bigger. Theydon't actually get better. You
know, just inherently. It'sjust, there's more chaos,
there's more complexity. Likeyou said, chaos finds you, and
in your book, you talk andyou've mentioned it earlier,
this idea of combat readiness,what does that look like at
the company level? Like, howdo you use something like that
(20:29):
to study an entire company,not just your team?
Schuyler Williamson (20:32):
Yeah. I mean, you know, the for
better, or for worse, thelifeblood of them of a
company, is money in the bank,right? I mean, I it'll it
allows you to take advantageof opportunities. It also
allows you to withstand anattack from a competitor, or,
you know, if you lose a keyperson, you know, it allows
you to kind of take a stepback and be able to work
(20:54):
through that and go hireanother key player there. But
I think one of the most basicthings that we can do as a
leader of a company is justmanage the financial aspect of
the company well, and you havea responsibility to do that as
a leader. Now, you may be bigenough that you can afford
someone that vets theirexpertise, and that's your
partner in the business tohelp you do that, but as a
(21:18):
leader, you don't get to justhand that part of the business
off completely. No. I mean,you know, and again, I'm a
small business owner, so Iwork off a cash flow
statement. So I need tounderstand what a cash flow
statement is, and I understandwhy it matters for my
business. I need to understandwhat my expenses are, so that,
if I had to operate with norevenue, like we did in COVID,
(21:39):
you know, how long can Isurvive, and what's, what's
the next couple of steps thatI'm going to do if something
like that were to happen. But,yeah, I mean, we look at
things like cash or cash onhand, you know, what's, what's
are in our economic model. Howprofitable are we on a per
sale basis? And then, and thenI look at my people, right?
(22:00):
Because usually business getscomplicated because of the
people, not not because youwake up and you can't sell
your your service anymore. Youcan't sell your product. I
mean that more times than not,that's not the problem. The
problem is the people or poordecisions financially. But
let's assume that you've donereally well financially, and
you make great decisions Well,now we come back to people.
(22:22):
And for people, you know, I'malways organizing the org
chart of today and the orgchart of tomorrow. I always
know the succession of mypeople. If someone were to
leave, what am I going to do?You know, who's going to step
in there? You know, I'vecontingency plan that way. I
know who my rising stars arethat, you know, no matter
what, they're going to getmore of my time than anyone
(22:44):
else, right? And I'm going tofeed them opportunity. If they
want to build something brandnew, I'm going to give them a
shot, and then I'm buildingthe bench too. People that I
know want to be a part of ourcompany, but we're not ready
for them yet. But like, youknow, they're on the bench,
and I'm nurturing them aswell. I mean, those two
pieces. I can't tell youenough. I mean, they sold 90%
(23:05):
of the problem. You know thathe's paying attention to your
financial situation and thepaying attention to your
people leading the company, ifyou're doing those well, more
times than not, the rest kindof falls into place.
Scott Ritzheimer (23:17):
So good. So true. Scott. I've got one more
question for you here, andthen we'll make sure folks
know how they can how they canget a copy of the book and
learn more about the work thatyou do. But before we get
there, what would you say isthe biggest secret that you
wish wasn't a secret at all?What's that one thing you wish
everybody watching orlistening today knew?
Schuyler Williamson (23:41):
That no matter who you think, no
matter who you think you areor what you you know how
controlled you are, that yourdecisions are always being
influenced. And so to theextent that you can be aware
of that, I think that in achaotic moment, if you can
slow things down and be in aposition where you can respond
(24:05):
and not react, I think yourchances of making a great
decision just go through theroof, and then the step kind
of next to that is payingattention to what you put in
front of you. And so by that,I mean, what are the books
that you're reading, what arethe shows that you're
listening to, the people onyour team that you spend the
(24:25):
most time with? You know, youryour partner, or your spouse
at home, you know, like,what's their mindset? Who your
friends, who they are. You'reif you're in a moment where
you don't have a lot of timeand you actually have to
react, all of those inputs aregoing to drive your reaction,
how you how you react thingsI'm saying, do everything you
(24:46):
can to respond, to putyourself in a position where
you can actually leverage oneof your models and bring
clarity and then respond. Butyou know, there'll be moments
where you don't have time andyou have to make a quick
decision. Well, all of thattime. That you've been put
doing your due diligence andmaking sure who you're hanging
out with, the books you'reputting in front of you, the
things you're listening to,like this podcast, like those
(25:08):
things all matter in thatmoment more than than ever.
And so your your yourinfluence. Every decision that
you you make, every decisionthat you make, is being
influenced. So you know youneed to you need to pay
attention to the to what'sinfluencing you and just
control that.
Scott Ritzheimer (25:25):
So good, so good. Where can folks get a
copy of the book and learnmore about what you do?
Schuyler Williamson (25:31):
Yeah, well, you can always go to
thesteadyleader.com, it's justthe title of the book. You
could buy it there or interactwith all of the things that we
have on that website. You canalso go to
Schuylerwilliamson.com you cansee all the businesses that we
have there and what we'redoing. Got some free resources
there and follow me onLinkedIn. I read every
morning, and my accountabilityfor my reading every morning
(25:54):
is that I post my journal postfrom that reading session. And
so if you're not a big bookreader, you just want the
cliff notes. You can follow meon LinkedIn and just get my
click notes every morning.
Scott Ritzheimer (26:03):
I love it. That's awesome. All right.
Well, Schuyler, thanks forbeing on the show. Love the
book. Highly recommend it foranyone listening. Really is
fantastic. Some really epicstories along the way as well.
And yeah, so thanks for beingon today. Just a privilege and
honor having you here, and forthose of you watching and
(26:23):
listening, you know your timeand attention mean the world
to us, I hope you got as muchout of this conversation as I
know I did, and I cannot waitto see you next time. Take
care you.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
(00:02):
again to the secrets of thehigh demand coach podcast. And
here with us today is the oneand only, Schuyler Williamson,
who's a leadership expert,entrepreneur and decorated
military veteran who hasconsistently achieved the
highest business and servicelevels as author of the steady
leader leadership models thatbring clarity to chaos.
(00:22):
Schuyler provides actionablestrategies for leading through
uncertainty, drawing from hisexperience as a Bronze Star
Medal recipient and combatofficer with deployments to
both Iraq and Afghanistan,he's also a top West Point and
McCombs MBA graduate. Schuylerranks in the top 1% of real
estate agents nationwide, withhundreds of millions in sales
(00:45):
and ownership of over 55investment properties. And
he's here with us today. So ifthere's anyone, I just have to
set this up. If there's anyonelistening who thinks there's
anything soft about theconversation you're about to
hear about being a steadyleader or all that entails,
you're in for a real treat. SoSchuyler, I'm wondering if we
could first off, welcome tothe show. But I'm wondering if
(01:07):
we could just put that myth tobed right out of the gate,
because you opened your bookwith a very compelling and
powerful story that really ledyou to this kind of journey of
being a steady leader. Couldyou tell us a little bit about
that experience, what happenedand how it got you to where
you are today.
Schuyler Williamson (01:24):
Yeah, thanks, Scott. Well, I'm
grateful to be here and forthe listeners and and look,
I'm just grateful to be anAmerican, first and foremost.
Yeah. So I was in Baghdad,Iraq, and, you know, I was an
officer leading an infantryplatoon in an area of Baghdad
that was controlled by alQaeda. Yeah. In fact, al Qaeda
(01:47):
was very public about it thatthis would be the last place
that they would lose inBaghdad if they were going to
be driven out. And so it was.It was a very difficult area.
There was lots of contact. Andyou know, al Qaeda is weapon
of choice at the time, was theimprovised explosive device,
or the IED, and we were on anormal patrol. It was a
(02:11):
security patrol, so we werejust in the streets making
sure that, essentially, thelocal populace could live
their lives without theinfluence of the terrorists.
And my sister platoon, justabout, you know, five miles
away was attacked, and theattack was successful. So they
had casualties, multiplevehicles disabled. The
(02:33):
soldiers were fighting. And,you know, I wish I could say
that that was rare, but, youknow, every day we kind of had
these encounters. I mean, mostof the time you're fighting
your own fights, but in thisscenario, when a friendly
force is pinned down and needssupport, you really don't wait
for someone to tell you tomove. You know, you move, and
(02:54):
that's what that's what the USsoldiers do. And so we, I gave
the command for our unit tomove that way. And, you know,
as a leader, maybe our firstkind of topic here is you have
a choice, and both choices cantake you to the completing the
vision. And one choice mightbe the faster way, but there's
(03:16):
more risk, right? So thereturn is getting there faster
and but there, you know,there's more risk of getting
hurt along the way. And thenthere's the safer way, where,
you know, you'll get there,but it'll just take longer.
Well, lives were at stake. Itook the route that was the
fastest one there, knowingthat there was a lot of risk
in doing that. You know theenemy would have it that they
(03:39):
detonated a very accurate andvery effective IED on my
platoon as we were moving togo support them. Now we were
blessed in a way that theydidn't follow up that attack
with more like the othersister platoon. They were
still under attack at themoment, but the bomb that they
blew up on us was veryeffective, and it hit my truck
(04:01):
direct. It hit the the door ofmy personal vehicle. And I
just, you know, just to sharea little bit of the
ingredients here, I I rememberkind of coming to my truck was
full of dust, which means thatshrapnel was actually able to
get into the vehicle right?Because those those vehicles
(04:22):
were pretty airtight with thethe armor that we'd put in
there at the time. So shrapnelgot into the vehicle. It was
full of dust. I had. I had twoguys behind me screaming. My
gunner in the turret wascompletely knocked out, and my
driver was actually conscious.I could see blood coming from
his ears because he didn'thave earplugs in and, and he
(04:43):
was trying to crank thevehicle. The vehicle had
stalled. And when I realizedwhat was going on, you know, I
had the ringing and the fog ofwar at the moment, but when I
realized what was going on,you know, everybody was
yelling over the radio and,and I. Pause the story right
there in the book. And yeah,we were we were extraordinary
(05:07):
as a unit. My team was verythey were trained very well. I
had great leadership. I hadgreat soldiers, smart,
capable, athletic soldiers,and we were lethal. But it
doesn't matter how good youare, chaos is going to find
you, and chaos found me deadon with that, with the impact
of that bomb. And my mainpoint is, is that just because
(05:31):
it's a chaotic moment, or justbecause you're hurt now, I
fractured my shin, and thatjust because you're hurt
doesn't mean that you don'tget the lead right. It's
assess the situation, puttogether a plan, and then make
a make a command and move out.And so I, you know, I, what I
tried to do in this book waskind of take people through
(05:52):
the process that I lead myselfthrough, so that even when
it's the most chaotic time,you could still be a steady
leader, because you still gotto lead it just just because
it's chaotic doesn't mean youhave to. You can just kind of
hit at my house, we call it Tbut like, timeout, right? You
don't get to call time out,none. You got to keep making
great decisions.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:12):
Such a phenomenal story and really
highlights, in a dramaticsense, the value of being a
steady leader and the cost tothat, right? It doesn't come
easy, doesn't come cheap, butit has the bigger the risk,
right? The bigger thechallenge, the greater the
chaos, the bigger the reward.And there's a bit of a leap
(06:34):
over the beginning of the bookthat doesn't seem obvious at
first, but is the obviousanswer. And we move from like
this, this high drama, highimpact, to this discussion of
models, right? And the book ingeneral is kind of built on
this idea that models arereally the way forward. So
(06:54):
it's one of those things thatcan mean a lot of things to a
lot of people. Someone justwhat is a model and and, more
specifically, what is therelationship of model to
innovation?
Schuyler Williamson (07:06):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think about
it kind of starts back at thedefinition of leadership, you
know. And I subscribe to two,you know, mega leaders out
there, and their definitions.One is John Maxwell, and he
says it simply, leadership isinfluence. And then, you know,
Gary Keller writes in his bookthat leadership is teaching
(07:27):
people how to think so thatthey can get what they want,
and then you get what you wantbecause of that. And so if
you're if you're boilingleadership down to being
influential in thinking andthinking well and teaching
people how to think, thenyou're gonna, you're gonna
come back to this concept ofmodels. The second thing is
(07:47):
just, I believe that thesolution to chaos is clarity,
which comes back again tothinking. And so Tony Robbins
said it well, that, you know,you should stand on the
shoulders of giants. And Ithink, he got it from someone
else, but, you know, again, hedeploys models, right when he
teaches. And so when you standon the shoulders of giants to
(08:08):
accomplish what you're tryingto accomplish, really, what
he's saying is start withsomething that you already
know is successful, yeah, andthen innovate on top of that
based on what makes youunique, right? Your unique
abilities, your products,Unique Selling aspects, or
your services, unique valueproposition. But start with
you know what works, and thengo from there. And models are
(08:32):
a much more solid foundationto build on top of than
innovation. Innovationsunproven. It's risky. You
know, you don't have a lot ofdata. You don't know if it's
gonna so if you start to builda company on top of
innovation, that's a that's areal risky kind of foundation,
right? So I just assume, startwith something that you know
works, and then innovate ontop of that. And so this idea
(08:56):
of a model mindset as aleader, everywhere I go, I'm
thinking, what's the modelhere? Like, I go to the
grocery store, and I'm like,man, not only how did they get
me in this grocery store, butlook at all these people in
here. How do they get them inhere? I know they have an
advertising model. I know theyhave a marketing model. Like,
what is their model? And Istart to think about and then
I go, Oh, well, can I applythat to my business? You know?
(09:18):
And I'm just doing that alleverywhere I go now.
Scott Ritzheimer (09:21):
Yeah, I love that. I love that mindset,
principles, a similar, similarapproach. There are patterns
that are playing out over andover again. So I want to walk
through because there's threekind of big parts of this book
that you've put together,leading yourself, leading your
team and leading your company.And interestingly, they kind
(09:42):
of align with this journeythat founders face of working
by themself, leadingthemselves, working with a
small team, leading theirteam, and ultimately growing a
successful company. And so Ikind of want to walk through
these both in terms of kind ofleveling up your leadership
and building onto. Of thefoundations and models you
have early on, and then alsowhat that looks like over
(10:04):
time. So we'll start at thebeginning. Early on, founders
are often wearing every hat.They probably have very big
dreams, but if they're honest,they're barely keeping it
together. So what's, what'sone of the models from the the
leading yourself that can helpthem to do that, to lead
themselves and study the shipwhen everything else feels
(10:25):
like it's like moving all overthe place and they're
wondering, What have I gottenmyself into? Yeah,
Schuyler Williamson (10:30):
Yeah. Well, the model that I like
the most is what we used tocall combat ready in the
military. And combat readymeans, when given a mission,
you're ready to step offimmediately. So you're
trained, you're equipped,you're motivated, you know
you're ready to go now,applying that to yourself,
leading yourself, the way thatI think about is, Are you
(10:52):
healthy, right? Are youhealthy to the max potential
so that you can go be the bestleader you can be for your
team every single day. And Ilike to break it down into
three components. Are youmentally healthy? Are you
physically healthy? Are youin? Are you spiritually
healthy? And I think of itlike a four legged stool with
(11:12):
mental and physical being oneleg each, and then spiritual
being two legs and so on. Theon the mental piece. I'm not
talking about it in like theclinical sense of it, to me,
mental health is you have agrowth mindset, right? That
you're hungry to be more todaythan you were yesterday, and
(11:32):
that not all of you hungry,but you feed yourself. You
know you're actively lookingto plus yourself up. And so it
takes a little bit ofhumility, but it certainly
takes motivation, and you'repositive too, right? You're
growing the physical healththat's literal your body. Is
your body capable? And I lovethe way that the stoics write
(11:54):
about this, right? When youwake up in the morning, does
your body tell you, Oh, you'retired, get you another 10
minutes of sleep, or don'twork out today you're sore,
or, Hey, you're tired today.So you can go take it halfway
at work. You don't have togive 100% or are you
physically healthy in that youtell your body, get up, it's
time to work out. It's time toexercise, go to work. And not
(12:16):
only are you going to work foreight hours, but this is a day
where you got to double down alittle bit so you're gonna
stay a little bit longer. Imean, are you, is your body an
asset, or is it a liability?In for you as a leader? And
then the last one would justbe spiritual in, you know, in
the whole game of endurance,right? And you need endurance
as an entrepreneur to get fromI do it to we do it spiritual,
(12:42):
health really can give you themost endurance and and I'll
just give you a good measureof spiritual health. When you
wake up in the morning, do youthink about what you're going
to get, or do you think aboutwhat you're going to give to
the world? To the extent thatyou wake up and are excited
about giving to the world.That's how health, that you're
more healthy spiritually. Andso the second that you learn
(13:06):
that this life isn't aboutyou, it's about you know all
God's children, that that'swhen you're starting down the
journey of spiritual health.And leader. Leaders can't be
influenced by the world.Leaders have to be able to
make great decisions outsideof the world's influence. And
again, that's all spiritualhealth there.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:26):
Yeah, it's so true. You talk about the
distinction I do it versus wedo it. And I think there's
this interesting, subtledifference early on, when it's
just you, or maybe a couplepeople around you, where,
especially because of JimCollins and Peter Drucker and
(13:48):
so many folks, there's thisidea every company needs to
have values, right? And I lovevalues. I think they're
awesome, but I think there's asubtle difference early on
between your values andcompany values. And I think we
oftentimes, like, we try toplay a big company game, to
look like we're a big company,right, or to pretend we're a
(14:08):
big company, and we actuallylose the advantage that we
have of they are your values.Like, let them be your values.
Don't try and separate thosetwo. So in that pursuit of
values, would you? Would youagree? Would you say that
those personal values domatter? And if so, how do you
start to unpack that?
Schuyler Williamson (14:27):
Oh, man, I I love the conversation of
values. You know, for me andfor our crew around here, when
we talk about company culture,we say culture is nothing but
just the accumulation ofvalues and beliefs. That's
what it is. And so you'reright, when it's I do it,
well, I am the company. Myvalues are the company values,
but the second that I hiresomeone who has different
(14:49):
values, then the values cometogether, and the ones that
are stronger actually becomethe company's values. You
don't go out and create valueswith. With an aspirational
sense, like you don't createvalues. You come with values.
They are who you are. And soif you want a culture that
looks and acts a certain way,and you need to recruit people
(15:12):
with those values, theyalready have them, because
you're not going to bringsomeone along and just create
values inside of them that youknow, you're not their maker.
And so I, I think that, youknow it starts. It starts with
having an idea of what youwant your company to act like,
what you want the culture tobe. And then during the hiring
practice, making sure thatyou're you're looking for
(15:33):
that, and you have questionsthat bring that to you. And
then, and then you're going tobe gold. Now, I'll just say
one more time. I thinkeverybody knows why values are
important, but just mydefinition of values are, they
drive the way that you operatewhen no one's looking right.
That's the way I look at it.So values are so important, so
that I can be here with youtoday and we can have this
(15:55):
conversation. I know my teamis operating in the
background, and I'm not aroundto answer questions or pay
attention to them, but becauseI know what their values are,
I know why they're, you know,they know the vision of the
company, they know the plan,and they have the values that
are in drive behavior whileI'm not around. You know,
managing them, I'm not a greatmanager, all right, I don't, I
don't care for it. It doesn't,doesn't excite me, and it
(16:17):
doesn't excite my team whenthey're being managed. So I
want great value, so that theyjust run on their own. It's
unbelievable when you have agreat set of values in place.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:25):
Yeah, so good. And it brings me
directly to my next questionhere, because what happens
when when you have success inthat early stage is thrust you
into the next one, and nowyou've got a team running
around you. Everyone's running100 miles an hour, you're
exhausted, maybe they'reexhausted, and it can feel
(16:46):
really, really hard when youdon't feel like you're a great
manager. It's not how you'renaturally wired. It can feel
hard to keep all those platesspinning, and can really lead
to a pretty significantresentment of your team if
you're not careful. So whathave you found to be effective
in in leading a team like thatand allowing you to balance
your job while still studyingthe team that's looking to win
(17:09):
as well?
Schuyler Williamson (17:11):
Yeah, well, I'll just say we're real
quick to violate one of thethings that's most basic in
the infantry in the army,which we call it in the
military, the span of control.So every fire team is three
people and a team leader. Andso we don't expect that team
leader to do anything otherthan manage those three
soldiers ever. It's never morethan three. And that's so that
that soldier can be a leaderand a soldier, right? Any more
(17:35):
men under his control, hewouldn't be able to be a
soldier too. He would just bea leader, and that's it. And
so I think the first thing isjust knowing, based on what
you have to do as a producerin your business, how many
people you actually can lead,and it still be okay, right?
So don't violate that span ofcontrol, which is three to
five people. Now, I believewhen people are frustrated as
(17:59):
a leader of a team more timesthan not, it comes down to
likely the leader is notcommunicating well, but
they're just in general. Onthe team, there's poor
communication, because nothingcan frustrate humans faster
than poor communication,especially when you're trying
to accomplish something big.And so I would just as a
leader, I'd go back and say,Okay, well, am I clear on my
(18:21):
vision, not only the vision ofwhat I want my team to do in
the future, but do I am Iclear on my vision for each
player on the team? Right? Soif we're just thinking about
football, my vision for whatthat quarterback looks like is
going to be very differentthan that left tackle, right,
right? They're both onoffense. They're both trying
to score a touchdown, but thevision for each position is
(18:41):
different. And so as a leader,you can't just have one
blanket vision and assign itto everybody. You got to have
many visions for each playeron the team. And and I would
just say, like, Am I clear andam I communicating that to the
team often enough so that theyknow where we're going?
Because if Shame on them ifthey're getting frustrated on
(19:01):
going where we're moving andnot bringing up, hey, there's
big issues with this. Youknow, they need to voice that
now. They're going out andtrying to do a great job, and
they do it way out in leftfield, and you're frustrated
as a leader, like, why are youworking so hard going out in
left field, and they want tobe patted on the back because
they just gave it all thiseffort. Look how far I've
(19:22):
gotten us. Well, man, theydon't We don't know where
we're going, and so yeah,we're going to be frustrated.
The Vision's not clear. So Iusually come back to
communication and specificallyvision, because if you got
great people on your team, andthey've got a clear vision,
even without a plan, sometimesthey'll still get you there,
it'll be a mess on the way.Lord, but they know where
they're going, so they'll getyou there. That's what a
(19:44):
players do.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:44):
Yeah, it's so, so true, especially at the
team level. So I want to fastforward again. We're a little
further down the road. Yoursmall team has become a bigger
team. It's not just youleading everybody. It's you
leading leaders and who might.Even be leading leaders
themselves. And one of thethings that was most
surprising and dishearteningto me when I was going through
(20:07):
this as an entrepreneurmyself, was I found that
businesses get bigger. Theydon't actually get better. You
know, just inherently. It'sjust, there's more chaos,
there's more complexity. Likeyou said, chaos finds you, and
in your book, you talk andyou've mentioned it earlier,
this idea of combat readiness,what does that look like at
the company level? Like, howdo you use something like that
(20:29):
to study an entire company,not just your team?
Schuyler Williamson (20:32):
Yeah. I mean, you know, the for
better, or for worse, thelifeblood of them of a
company, is money in the bank,right? I mean, I it'll it
allows you to take advantageof opportunities. It also
allows you to withstand anattack from a competitor, or,
you know, if you lose a keyperson, you know, it allows
you to kind of take a stepback and be able to work
(20:54):
through that and go hireanother key player there. But
I think one of the most basicthings that we can do as a
leader of a company is justmanage the financial aspect of
the company well, and you havea responsibility to do that as
a leader. Now, you may be bigenough that you can afford
someone that vets theirexpertise, and that's your
partner in the business tohelp you do that, but as a
(21:18):
leader, you don't get to justhand that part of the business
off completely. No. I mean,you know, and again, I'm a
small business owner, so Iwork off a cash flow
statement. So I need tounderstand what a cash flow
statement is, and I understandwhy it matters for my
business. I need to understandwhat my expenses are, so that,
if I had to operate with norevenue, like we did in COVID,
(21:39):
you know, how long can Isurvive, and what's, what's
the next couple of steps thatI'm going to do if something
like that were to happen. But,yeah, I mean, we look at
things like cash or cash onhand, you know, what's, what's
are in our economic model. Howprofitable are we on a per
sale basis? And then, and thenI look at my people, right?
(22:00):
Because usually business getscomplicated because of the
people, not not because youwake up and you can't sell
your your service anymore. Youcan't sell your product. I
mean that more times than not,that's not the problem. The
problem is the people or poordecisions financially. But
let's assume that you've donereally well financially, and
you make great decisions Well,now we come back to people.
(22:22):
And for people, you know, I'malways organizing the org
chart of today and the orgchart of tomorrow. I always
know the succession of mypeople. If someone were to
leave, what am I going to do?You know, who's going to step
in there? You know, I'vecontingency plan that way. I
know who my rising stars arethat, you know, no matter
what, they're going to getmore of my time than anyone
(22:44):
else, right? And I'm going tofeed them opportunity. If they
want to build something brandnew, I'm going to give them a
shot, and then I'm buildingthe bench too. People that I
know want to be a part of ourcompany, but we're not ready
for them yet. But like, youknow, they're on the bench,
and I'm nurturing them aswell. I mean, those two
pieces. I can't tell youenough. I mean, they sold 90%
(23:05):
of the problem. You know thathe's paying attention to your
financial situation and thepaying attention to your
people leading the company, ifyou're doing those well, more
times than not, the rest kindof falls into place.
Scott Ritzheimer (23:17):
So good. So true. Scott. I've got one more
question for you here, andthen we'll make sure folks
know how they can how they canget a copy of the book and
learn more about the work thatyou do. But before we get
there, what would you say isthe biggest secret that you
wish wasn't a secret at all?What's that one thing you wish
everybody watching orlistening today knew?
Schuyler Williamson (23:41):
That no matter who you think, no
matter who you think you areor what you you know how
controlled you are, that yourdecisions are always being
influenced. And so to theextent that you can be aware
of that, I think that in achaotic moment, if you can
slow things down and be in aposition where you can respond
(24:05):
and not react, I think yourchances of making a great
decision just go through theroof, and then the step kind
of next to that is payingattention to what you put in
front of you. And so by that,I mean, what are the books
that you're reading, what arethe shows that you're
listening to, the people onyour team that you spend the
(24:25):
most time with? You know, youryour partner, or your spouse
at home, you know, like,what's their mindset? Who your
friends, who they are. You'reif you're in a moment where
you don't have a lot of timeand you actually have to
react, all of those inputs aregoing to drive your reaction,
how you how you react thingsI'm saying, do everything you
(24:46):
can to respond, to putyourself in a position where
you can actually leverage oneof your models and bring
clarity and then respond. Butyou know, there'll be moments
where you don't have time andyou have to make a quick
decision. Well, all of thattime. That you've been put
doing your due diligence andmaking sure who you're hanging
out with, the books you'reputting in front of you, the
things you're listening to,like this podcast, like those
(25:08):
things all matter in thatmoment more than than ever.
And so your your yourinfluence. Every decision that
you you make, every decisionthat you make, is being
influenced. So you know youneed to you need to pay
attention to the to what'sinfluencing you and just
control that.
Scott Ritzheimer (25:25):
So good, so good. Where can folks get a
copy of the book and learnmore about what you do?
Schuyler Williamson (25:31):
Yeah, well, you can always go to
thesteadyleader.com, it's justthe title of the book. You
could buy it there or interactwith all of the things that we
have on that website. You canalso go to
Schuylerwilliamson.com you cansee all the businesses that we
have there and what we'redoing. Got some free resources
there and follow me onLinkedIn. I read every
morning, and my accountabilityfor my reading every morning
(25:54):
is that I post my journal postfrom that reading session. And
so if you're not a big bookreader, you just want the
cliff notes. You can follow meon LinkedIn and just get my
click notes every morning.
Scott Ritzheimer (26:03):
I love it. That's awesome. All right.
Well, Schuyler, thanks forbeing on the show. Love the
book. Highly recommend it foranyone listening. Really is
fantastic. Some really epicstories along the way as well.
And yeah, so thanks for beingon today. Just a privilege and
honor having you here, and forthose of you watching and
(26:23):
listening, you know your timeand attention mean the world
to us, I hope you got as muchout of this conversation as I
know I did, and I cannot waitto see you next time. Take
care you.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.