September 19, 2025 • 39 mins
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Everyone wants to manifest their dream life, but most people skip the step that actually makes it possible: shadow work.
In this episode of Self Love & Sweat THE PODCAST, Lunden is joined by Danielle Massi to break down the connection between shadow work and manifestation and why avoiding your shadows keeps you stuck in the same patterns.
We talk about why people fear shadow work, how to face it with courage, and how leaning into the shadows is actually the real way to unlock abundance, healing, and transformation.
You’ll learn:
- What shadow work really is (and what it’s not)
- Why most people avoid it and why that keeps them blocked
- The link between shadow work and manifestation (and how to use both together)
- Simple practices to start exploring your shadow self with compassion
- How shadow work frees you to create a life aligned with your true self
If you’ve been trying to manifest but feel stuck, this conversation will show you what’s been missing.
Mentioned in this episode:
Danielle Massi is a master shadow work practitioner, best-selling author, keynote speaker, and CEO of The Wellness Collective, a holistic healing space in Philadelphia. Her signature shadow work program, the Create Your Light Academy, has helped thousands of spiritual women unearth, remove, and heal unconscious blocks that are causing disconnect between their mind, body, and energy.
Danielle is the founder of the SELF(ISH)philly Conference, a self-care conference, where hundreds of women gather annually
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lunden Souza (00:00):
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat, the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Welcome back to the podcast.
(00:24):
Today we have Danielle Masseyback on the show.
I'm so happy to have you back,babe.
How are you?
Danielle Massi (00:31):
I'm so good now that I'm here, how are you?
Lunden Souza (00:35):
I'm good, I'm really good.
I am just so stoked for ourconversation again.
Right before we pressed record,I was telling Danielle how much
her book Shadow Work changed mylife and just helped me create
yeah, more of what I want to seein my life, and I wouldn't be
here in Utah if it wasn't forthis book and for the work
(00:56):
that's part of this book.
So I'm just super grateful.
And how's Philly?
How is everything going on theother side of the country?
Danielle Massi (01:04):
Philly.
How is everything going on theother side of the country?
Philly is amazing.
We just had the Shadow Workdeck come out the companion to
the book, which it's been a bitof a whirlwind trying to put
that out there and haveeverybody see it and all the
excitement around it.
So I'm just sitting ingratitude right now and enjoying
a little bit of the end ofsummer as we get into that
witchy, spooky season thateveryone loves to do shadow work
(01:24):
in.
Lunden Souza (01:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm so excited to talk about
your deck and book and all thethings, but let's just dive
right in.
I found out about shadow workthrough your book, through you
being on my podcast, and I justfeel like it changed my whole
world.
And I was on a walk a couplemonths ago with a friend and she
(01:46):
asked me have you done shadowwork?
And I was like, yes, oh my gosh, I love it, danielle Massi,
this book.
And she was like oh my gosh, no, I'm too afraid to do shadow
work.
And so I want to start theconversation there for the
people listening that maybe haveheard of shadow work or maybe
they've never heard of it before, but they're like I don't know
about the shadows, I don't knowif I want to be there.
(02:07):
Why are people so afraid ofdiving into this shadow work?
Danielle Massi (02:11):
Well, let's start with the obvious fact that
it's called shadow work, andthat sounds really ominous and
scary the idea of our shadows,not even in a psychological
aspect, but just in life.
It means that there's darknessand we're very afraid of the
dark.
We, as kids, are afraid to bein spaces where it might be too
dark, where things might castshadows.
(02:33):
Shadows can look creepy becauseyou can manipulate them and
change the way that they are,and I think that idea of the
shadow being a scary spacetranslate over into what people
think shadow work is and whatit's all about, which there's so
much confusion around.
Just what is shadow work?
We even see it on places likeTikTok, where so many people are
(02:54):
talking about it and you canwatch a hundred videos and go.
I don't even know what this is.
Lunden Souza (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, and so I know we talked about this on
the first episode of what shadowwork is and I want everyone to
go back and listen to that, butcan we just do a quick rundown
of what that is and start there?
Danielle Massi (03:13):
Of course.
So back in the late 1800s,early 1900s, carl Jung, who was
the protege of Sigmund Freud,came up with this idea that we
have memories and informationthat is repressed and buried so
deep down within our psyche thatit's kind of hard for us to
access without someone else'shelp or without knowing exactly
(03:35):
how to get there.
He called it the shadow, andshadow work was the process of
being in a deep meditative statewhere you can access that space
and pull up those memories inan effort to heal them.
For us as people, when we thinkabout how many moments we have
throughout our lifetimes,there's so much that the brain
doesn't know what to do with, soit stuffs it and buries it down
(03:56):
.
It is not all bad, and I cannotstress this enough.
A lot of the things that livein that repressed, buried space
are things like a license platethat you've passed on the street
that your brain goes oh, jpf2287,.
Which is weird if somebodylistening to this is that one.
Lunden Souza (04:15):
I'm like, if that's somebody's license plate,
I'm going to die laughing.
If it's yours, let us know.
Danielle Massi (04:20):
I probably just saw it at some point in my
lifetime and our brain actuallycatalogs that information Every
second of every day of our livesis stored somewhere within the
mind.
We just don't need to accessinformation like that on a
regular basis.
So what happens is it getspushed and it gets buried and we
don't need it, but it doesinform the way that we see the
(04:40):
world.
So all this stuff that's hiddenchanges who you are at your
core and when our brains shapethemselves around these core
memories and these experiences,we see the world very
differently.
Some of us are triggered bythings that other people around
us look at us and go.
Why does that even bother you?
Why is it that this is makingyou feel this way?
(05:03):
Calm down, relax.
It's not a big deal.
How many times do we hear thatin a single month?
And it's because of yourshadows.
So shadow is really not scary,it's just the stuff you can't
see easily.
There's been a rebrand recentlyin the psychotherapy world of
calling it parts work instead ofshadow work.
(05:26):
Okay, because it sounds morepalatable and less creepy, less
scary, and they've done thatbecause they really want to get
us over this hurdle of feelinglike, ooh, shadow work that
sounds terrifying.
Where I kind of go the otherway.
I want to embrace it and makepeople feel like the shadows are
cool.
Lunden Souza (05:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I feel like going into thosedarker, let's say, or repressed,
areas.
I feel like being able to gothere.
So for someone listening that'safraid, I almost feel like it's
you're cleaning out the junkdrawer.
(06:05):
It's like you open it up andthere's all this stuff there's
scissors and wrapped up cordsand lip gloss with particles
corroded on the outside, and allthese things that you get to
start to organize and then havemore capacity to do your life's
work, to go out in the world andfulfill your purpose.
(06:27):
And I feel like going into thoseplaces feels exactly like the
junk drawer.
It's like the closet where youstuff everything into, and just
because the door is shut doesn'tmean that there's not things
behind that door to deal withand who knows what you might
find.
Even cleaning out my closet, Iwas like, oh, I thought there
(06:47):
was only pants right here, buthere's the matching jacket that
goes with it.
And what we can find in thoseshadows can be so useful and so
helpful and so connecting Someof the deepest things I've
discovered, or some of thoseshadow experiences, things I've
(07:08):
uncovered.
Then when I get to share themin community or with people that
I love and trust, I feel likeit brings us closer, because
we're just going throughout theworld thinking that like, okay,
what I see is what is and whatyou see in me is what is, but
there's so much below thesurface that I feel like when we
miss that, we miss a deeperconnection with those around us.
Danielle Massi (07:31):
Absolutely, we miss most of ourselves.
And let's stick with thisanalogy for a second, because I
kind of love the idea of thejunk drawer.
We know intuitively that youcan't leave a junk drawer
forever.
At some point it's going to beoverflowing.
You're not going to be able tosee what's in there.
It needs to clean out.
We've normalized this as aculture, as a society, as a
people.
(07:51):
Why don't we normalize that forthe brain?
Our brain only has the capacityto hold a certain amount of
information within thatunconscious mind and over time,
as that information accumulates,just like a junk drawer, it
starts to overflow and to spillout.
That's where we see people haveanxiety or depression.
(08:12):
That's where we see troublesleeping, issues around
performance, anxiety.
All that stuff is because thatjunk drawer, that metaphorical
junk drawer of the unconsciousmind, is starting to spill out
into other spaces.
If we think back to hundreds ofyears ago, where people's
lifespans were shorter, itwasn't as big of a deal unless
(08:33):
you were severely traumatizedand there was a lot that was
repressed because we were onlyliving into our 30s and 40s.
But now we're living into our80s and beyond.
So that capacity to overflow isjust that much higher and it
really does stop us from beingable to live life on our terms,
because there's so much stuff,so much junk that's holding us
(08:56):
back from being in our truestpotential.
Lunden Souza (08:59):
Yeah, yeah, I like that junk drawer analogy too,
and I think those listening canresonate with exactly what you
said of just like you can'tignore it forever and then when
you organize the junk drawer,there's more space for things,
or maybe you realize you don'teven need all that junk and you
can put something in there.
That's, yeah, more useful, moreaccessible.
(09:21):
That's more useful, moreaccessible.
And, like I said, I just feellike every time I go back to
your book a lot and now that Ihave your card deck it's so
great but I feel like every timeI uncover another shadow,
another part, then I feel likethis whole evolution and
(09:42):
elevation in my personal life,my relationships, my
professional life, justeverything gets an upgrade.
So I think people, you know youhear we were talking about
TikTok and shadow, you hearthese, you know, oh yeah, let's
elevate to be our best selves,like we're evolving into who
we're becoming.
But that just doesn't happen byour conscious mind decision to
(10:07):
then do it and then just try tocontrol and be as perfect as
possible.
And I'm speaking fromexperience, where it's like you
become aware of something andthen you think you can just
change it by doing more orpushing that feeling down when
that trigger comes up,pretending like it's not
triggering you and movingforward.
(10:27):
But I feel like every time I'vehad this death and resurrection
, if you will, in my life, it'salways because of going to those
darker parts and acknowledgingthat.
And I believe that in order toevolve and in order to manifest
the life that you want, youcan't ignore that.
(10:48):
You can't, and if you try,you're not going to get to reach
for lack of better words yourfullest potential or live your
dream life, which is a buzzwordthat we hear a lot too.
It doesn't just come from aconscious mind decision.
It comes from navigating thatsubconscious realm and
(11:08):
continuing to elevate and evolveand become even more because of
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Danielle Massi (13:11):
Exactly.
Our neurochemistry is becominga buzz in itself on social media
, where you hear every coach outthere talking about change your
neural pathways, alter yourbrain, but not a lot of them
actually understand what thatmeans and they don't have the
education to speak to that.
This is where the work is done.
If you actually want to becomea better version of yourself,
(13:33):
you can try and talk yourselfinto it with affirmations.
You can do some behavioralchanges with CBT, which I've
been trained in.
All those things are lovely,but at the end of the day, your
brain hasn't really shifted, notenough.
You might've moved this much,just a little pinch, but in
order to see the world the waythat you want to, to show up
every day as the best version ofyourself, you have to actually
(13:55):
become someone whose brainmatches that, whose energy
matches that, and that's wherethat death and rebirth cycle of
shadow work can be so powerfuland can really help you manifest
whatever it is that you'rehoping to achieve.
Because if you want to besomething, you can change your
brain to become that version ofyou that can have it, and it
(14:16):
really is simple.
I think we overcomplicate a lotof that stuff and we think it's
going to be scary or reallyhard to do, but when you know
the pathway to change neuralpathways, it just comes down to
going back to those moments andinterrupting the way that you've
seen it before.
So changing the senses,changing the emotions, changing
(14:38):
the way that your body isphysically reacting and then
ultimately changing how youchoose to think about it.
And once you hack one of those,it changes for good and that's
it.
Lunden Souza (14:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And I saw something on socialmedia the other day that was
like it's not enough to go backand heal the child or talk to
the child within, you have tobecome the adult that stops the
pattern.
Yeah, and that really spoke tome, because I think a lot of
(15:12):
people spend time doing thiswork, but then we also have to
be the grownup adult that sayshey, no, mas not doing this
anymore.
Adult that says hey, no, masnot doing this anymore.
And I'm going to reach out forsupport and I'm going to dive
into these areas, these parts ofme, so that, instead of pushing
them away and having guilt andshame and anxiety and depression
(15:35):
and all of this, well, what canI learn from that?
What can I bring to the tableso that that's not running the
show?
Because it's going to run theshow, whether you choose to
acknowledge it or not.
That subconscious mind, thoseshadows, are going to run the
show.
And then it's just going to belike oh, this is my life and
this is just the way things are.
But we really have thatcapacity the brain is so
(15:57):
beautiful to change the way thatthings fire and wire, and I
think about past versions ofmyself, and I'm sure you do too,
danielle, and all that you'veexperienced where it's like, oh,
I'm no longer that person.
I appreciate her, thank you, butI can't even find that emotion.
(16:17):
I can't find that triggeranymore because, quite frankly,
it died it's gone, it's notthere.
Yeah.
Danielle Massi (16:27):
Yeah, fascinating when you think about
it truly, and I wonder.
This is something that I'venoticed.
I should preface this a littlebit.
I used to teach abnormalpsychology and development of
the brain at Penn State and whenI was a teacher we talked about
something called phenotype.
Your phenotype is how your DNAexpresses itself, based on the
(16:49):
experiences that you've hadthroughout your life.
There's genotype and there'sphenotype, so you can have
identical twins.
One of them grows up inPhiladelphia, where it's like
the air is smoggy, there's likemore violence on the streets.
I live in Philly and it's justlike a different world.
Someone else lives in ColoradoSprings, where there's mountains
(17:11):
, there's fresh air, they'redrinking water straight out of
the mountain and the mountain istoo inclined Like.
It's just a differentexperience.
They will actually lookdifferent physically.
It's not even something that'sjust changing the brain.
It's also changing the physicalexpression of DNA.
The one who lives in ColoradoSprings might become a little
bit taller.
They might be leaner, moremuscular.
(17:33):
Their eye color might be even alittle bit brighter.
There's going to be tangibledifferences.
So I wonder, Lunden, if you'veever looked back at photos of
yourself from before and noticedthat you look different.
I look back at photos of myselffrom five years ago and I feel
like I'm aging in reverse andI'm not changing the way that
I'm eating.
I'm not changing my physicality.
(17:53):
All I'm changing is dealingwith the stuff I've repressed
and letting it change the waythat I live my life.
I'm more at peace now and youcan see it all over my face and
my body.
Lunden Souza (18:04):
Yeah, do you see that for yourself too?
I noticed that for myself andothers have noticed this too.
I'll get messages where it'slike, oh, this chapter Utah,
they'll call it looks good onyou, whatever you're doing.
And I was looking yesterday.
I was on WhatsApp, in aWhatsApp group, and I have like
a default picture that I musthave chosen.
You know, I think it was yearsago yeah, years ago, over five
(18:28):
years ago and it's a greatpicture, but I can just tell
that my smile is different.
There's like I look at it andI'm like, oh, that's the girl
that thought she had to do more,work harder, do all the things
in order to be worthy, in orderto be good enough.
This is the girl that woke upand pushed down the shadow, not
(18:49):
really knowing it, just to showup and smile and be the person
that she thought she wassupposed to be, in order to be
who she wanted to be.
Right, For lack of better words, it just let's say it like this
.
It was as authentic as I couldbe with the tools I had at the
time.
But when I look at the picturein the smile, I was like, oh, I
(19:10):
can just see in my smile it'sdifferent.
I can see the shape of my face.
I just yeah, and you notice it.
And then people will say thattoo, like what have you been
doing?
What's your skincare routine?
And I'm like, honestly, it'sthe work-ins.
Right, I was in working out forso long all about the workouts,
(19:30):
and now I'm like, oh, I justthink the work-ins are the best
anti-aging secret on the planet.
I don't know what else to tellyou, absolutely.
Danielle Massi (19:38):
And it's a combination of all these things
that really gives us the abilityto do everything for ourselves.
And the fact that people are soafraid of shadow work and
they're so afraid to go to thosespaces but they will show up in
other ways always kind of blowsmy mind, because I can watch
someone be so dedicated in onespace and so terrified somewhere
else, when really, if we lookat the results, it's not
(20:01):
something to be afraid of, it'ssomething to be excited about.
Look how things can move andlook how you can become who it
is that you're hoping to becomein a really simple way.
Lunden Souza (20:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And the way that I came to Utahwas through your book, her book
, danielle's book, shadow Work.
I love it because and the samething on top but this book has
sat on my coffee table and Ilove it because when people come
(20:39):
over they'll sit down andthey'll open it.
When my family comes to visit,I make sure it's really visible
so they can come and check itout.
But I love it because there'sso many exercises in this book,
pretty much with every chapterof like, okay, here's the
concept behind it and thenhere's how you do it.
And it's so applicable.
(21:00):
And I had a chance to speak withDanielle's coaching alumni or
student alumni one time and Ipulled out my journal and I was
like, look, this is the page ofmanifestation.
This was all the sensoryexperience I wanted to have when
I moved back from Austria, cameto California, knew California
(21:20):
wasn't where I wanted to be, butI wasn't sure where, and so
instead of saying like, oh, onthe map, where am I going to go
next?
It was like, oh, what's thesensory experience I want to
have?
What am I smelling, what am Iseeing, what am I tasting, what
am I feeling?
And really getting into thatexperience and I remember one of
them was like my feet are inthe rocks with stream water
(21:43):
rushing over them.
So now I'm hiking and everytime I have that opportunity I
put my feet in the rocks as asymbol of that shadow work and
that manifestation.
And so why is shadow work socritical to manifestation?
Why can't we just say, oh, Iwant to have a big house and my
dream man and my life Like, whyis the declaration of it just
(22:06):
with our words not enough?
Because so many people say Iwant to manifest this or I'm
manifesting this and I just wantto make sure we're doing it the
right way.
Danielle Massi (22:16):
This is going to be the simplest manifestation
lesson you ever get, and foranyone who's listening to this,
this is the point where I wantyour ears to perk up.
We have a very specific processfor creating neural pathways
which are like super highways inthe brain.
Every second of every day,you're taking in everything
around you with all your senses.
You're smelling, you're hearing, you're tasting, you're
(22:37):
touching and so on, and thosesenses are communicating to your
brain what to do next.
They're creating a chemical.
We know that chemical asemotions.
So it might make you feel atpeace, it might make you feel
like you're angry, it might makeyou feel excited.
Whenever the chemical messengeris, that's going to send a
message down through thebrainstem, down through your
(22:59):
spine.
It's going to send it out tothe body and that physical
reaction that we know is fight,flight, freeze or fawn or, if
we're switching to the otherside of things, rest and digest
peace within the body.
That's going to tell the bodywhere to send blood and oxygen.
So are we pumping it out sothat you can have all of your
(23:20):
senses help you move, to run, tofight, to do whatever you need,
or is it going to let you takea deep breath and send all that
blood and oxygen to places thatneed restoration to the heart,
to anywhere that needs repair.
If you have an injury somewhere, are're sending blood and
oxygen there because we havetime to repair those things and
ultimately, that loop closeswhen the body sends a chemical
(23:43):
reaction back up to the entericnervous system in the form of a
thought.
That's why we say that your gutis sort of like your second
brain.
It's telling your brain in thismoment we're good or this is
not good.
Whatever the message is, it'sgoing to give you a thought.
If you know that that is howneural pathways are created, you
know that that is how memorieshave stored throughout your body
(24:06):
throughout your lifetime.
You also know that that is hownew things can be created too.
So shadow work is the processof going backwards, it's
breaking down the old neuralpathways, but manifestation is
the process of creating newneural pathways.
So we want to use that exactsame loop, the subconscious
(24:27):
feedback loop, to create the newstuff.
So if you want to have thatexperience where your feet are
in the rocks and you feel thewater and you can smell the
fresh air and you feel thebreeze from you, can smell the
fresh air and you feel thebreeze from the mountain during
the hike and all that stuff iskind of flooding over you.
If you can create thatexperience without even
physically being there, bytapping into the senses, the
(24:49):
emotions, the physical reactionto it and the thoughts, your
brain thinks you're alreadythere and it starts to make
neural pathways based on thisreality.
I don't know if anybodylistening to this has ever
watched a TV show.
My husband used to be obsessedwith Tosh.0.
And these dumb shows are likeYouTube, where you watch someone
(25:10):
getting hurt and, as it happens, you're like ugh, you can feel
it.
You feel the pain of someone ona skateboard kind of face
planting hitting the concrete.
Even me talking about it rightnow might make a physical
reaction happen in your body.
The reason that happens isbecause of this process.
Our brains are always lookingfor information and we have this
(25:32):
experience called mirrorneurons, where our brains are
kind of mimicking what they seeand experience through your
senses and imagining ishappening to you.
Our brains are extremelycreative that way.
So if you can use that andinstead of thinking about pain
or injury or whatever else, andtap into positive experience or
(25:52):
what could be, if you can useall those pieces of it and feel
it so deeply.
Your brain knows what it feelslike and can create a neural
pathway out of nothing, so it'seasier to get it, and that's how
you manifest.
Lunden Souza (26:07):
We don't have to see it to experience it
internally.
It's that internal way that wefire and wire to then have more
of those experiences.
Danielle Massi (26:18):
Yep, you just have to give those mirror
neurons the opportunity, andwhen you sit in that space, they
go.
We need a neural pathway forthat.
Lunden Souza (26:25):
Yep Build the road .
Danielle Massi (26:28):
Build the road, build the road.
I like that.
Lunden Souza (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I love watching those videos I
mean, you guys can YouTube it oflike the new neurons firing
together and building pathways.
Danielle Massi (26:40):
Oh, I love watching those.
Lunden Souza (26:42):
So satisfying.
Those videos are so satisfyingbecause you see it, it's like
I'm almost like cheering forthem.
You see them start to go andthey make the connection, then
try connecting new axons, it'sso fun.
And then they may be like, youknow, disconnect.
And then the more that werepeat go down that road, choose
that road, be the adult thatchooses that road, despite maybe
(27:04):
some things that happened whenwe're younger.
It's like I encourage everybodyjust to YouTube like new neural
pathways forming, like justlook at that, it's so cool to
see, because it's so possible.
We don't have to say this isjust the way I am, this is just
you know, I'm going to be thisway forever.
It's like, actually, if you saythat and choose that, that's a
(27:26):
cop-out.
That's not allowing A thousandpercent.
And I say that always honestand respectful.
But it's like it's such acop-out to just stay the same,
especially if that's not youknow, if you're complaining
about your life or you don'twant to have the experiences
that you're experiencing.
Danielle Massi (27:43):
Our personalities are not set in
stone.
Your personality is not writtenon your DNA.
It's not anywhere on thatcoding.
It's all based on how you'velived your life.
There is something like onelittle piece of your DNA that
decides whether or not you'reextroverted, irritable, but that
even in itself can be activatedor deactivated.
(28:03):
And that's part of what we weretalking about earlier with that
genotype versus phenotype thing.
Your experiences can shift thatand move it, kind of like a
light switch, flicking it on oroff.
Other than that, yourpersonality is based on what you
believe, and I have this fightsometimes with people who are
really into astrology.
I actually love astrology.
(28:23):
I'm a Capricorn stellium.
I am a true Capricorn Scorpio'sin my 12th house.
So I think that's like theepicenter for shadow work is
like a 12th house Scorpiopoliceman.
But when we look at thosethings, they should inform us,
they shouldn't define us.
So, yes, I am very type A, I'morganized, I'm a planner.
(28:47):
It's why I've been able towrite books and do all these
amazing things I've done.
But I don't let that limit me.
I don't let that stop me fromalways taking the opportunities
to do something else.
Capricorns get a rap for beingcold, and at least once a day I
go check in on your friends, askhow they're doing, see who the
people in your life who love youare up to Like.
(29:08):
Check in with people, dosomething else, and that's a
choice that I'm making.
So, even if there's somethingthat you feel like is part of
your nature, you can fight thatnature and change your neural
pathways to lean into otheraspects of who you are.
It doesn't have to define you.
If you don't want it to, and Iagree, choosing to let your oh,
I'm just like this as a personthing define you.
(29:30):
That's such a cop-out.
I used to be such an introvert.
Now I'm not.
I'm definitely recharging inspace where I'm alone, but I'm
on stages all the time.
I'm in rooms surrounded bypeople, I'm the life of the
party, and then I'll go home andread a book and talk to no one
for a while.
But you can change these things.
It doesn't have to be defined.
Lunden Souza (29:49):
Yes, both.
And let's talk about your carddeck.
For those of you watching thevideo, it's this beautiful 40
card deck with a guide book andworkbook.
I'll link everything, of course, in the show notes, but I would
love for you to tell us moreabout this, how we can use it.
(30:09):
And then I thought I could picka card for everybody listening
here today and read it.
Yes, please, okay.
Danielle Massi (30:14):
So the deck came about for me.
I started manifesting what itwould.
Yes, please, okay.
So the deck came about for me.
I started manifesting what itwould be like to do a deck
before the book even hit theshelves.
I could see it in my mind.
I did a similar experience towhat you did with Utah, where I
just felt like what it wouldlook like being next to each
other on a shelf at Barnes andNoble and seeing it, smelling
(30:35):
the way that a Barnes Noblesmells, feeling it, being able
to hold the cards in my hand andfeel the way that they shuffled
.
I made it very tangible in mymind.
For myself, the cards are reallya perfect way for anyone who is
looking to do shadow work ontheir own but doesn't really
know where to start.
The book does explain how to gointo the meditative state, how
(30:56):
to pull up memories, but thatcan be know where to start.
The book does explain how to gointo the meditative state, how
to pull up memories, but thatcan be intimidating in the
beginning.
So the deck is to give you alittle bit of guidance about
where you should focus on agiven day.
I do believe that there's noaccidents.
Whatever card you pull is meantfor you that day.
So whatever direction you'rebeing pulled into, whichever way
(31:17):
the universe is leading you, itwill show.
And the cards themselves aresplit into a few different
categories.
There's the Jungian archetypes,because obviously Carl Jung is
the father of shadow work.
We could not have a nod to himin there.
So cards like the ego and thepersona and the hero's journey
you'll find them in the carddeck.
Then there's things like energycenters, so really tapping into
(31:41):
the chakras.
There's a shadow astrologysection, so cards like black
Lilith, new moon, full moonyou'll find those in here.
And then there's someactivation cards too that are
nods directly to things in thebook that I talk about.
So moments from the book that Ipulled into the card deck to
just help you find what it isthat you need to focus your
(32:02):
energy on to create big shifts.
So that's what the cards arefor and how they're used.
And something that thepublishing house was lovely
about, thank goodness, was thatI really wanted there to be a
workbook too.
Yeah, and I think pulling cardsis awesome.
A workbook too.
Yeah, because I think pullingcards is awesome.
I love an Oracle deck, but withshadow work specifically,
(32:23):
sometimes you need a little more.
So the workbook is to give youvery tangible, specific
activities, just like in thebook, that you can do
immediately, so that you don'thave to figure out okay, here's
some awareness, but now what?
I wanted to answer the questionof now what, without you having
to think about it, to make thisreally accessible.
Lunden Souza (32:45):
Got it and I haven't actually dove into the
workbook yet.
I've been picking a card.
When I fail, call to pick one,usually in the evenings, and I
use the guidebook.
So, with the workbook, whatevercard we pick, is there a
corresponding exercise?
Danielle Massi (33:00):
Yeah, every single one of them has a
corresponding section in there.
So if you pull the black Lilithcard, there's the black Lilith
exercise.
Lunden Souza (33:08):
I'm going to pick one, so I'm going to, before we
close, I'm going to pick a cardfor everyone, for everybody
listening.
This will just be one that wethere, it jumped right out, I
love a jumper.
Jumper Divine Feminine.
Danielle Massi (33:26):
Oh yes.
Lunden Souza (33:27):
Creativity, freedom and Flow.
So good.
So I'll open up the workbookand kind of read this for
everyone, and I'm sure it'llspeak to everybody in the way
it's supposed to.
Okay, so divine femininecreativity, freedom and flow.
(33:48):
For too long you have been outof balance with your feminine
energy.
By having either an excess or alack of feminine energy, you
have been navigating your worldfrom imbalance.
An excess of feminine energycan look like creation without
action, codependency, moodswings, manipulation, jealousy,
boundary issues and lack offocus.
(34:09):
It can physically manifest asreproductive problems, urinary
tract infections and addiction.
A lack of feminine energy canlook like a lack of creativity,
sexual repression, disconnect ordetachment, rigidity or working
too much.
It can physically manifest aslower back pain, infertility
issues or bladder kidneyproblems.
(34:30):
Being in full alignment withyour divine feminine requires
balance between your masculineand feminine energies, and the
mantra is I awaken.
The flow of divine femininerequires balance between your
max masculine and feminineenergies, and the mantra is I
awaken the flow of divinefeminine energy within me,
activating creation, freedom andflow.
Danielle Massi (34:47):
The workbook exercise for this one I'll pop
this up here is actually acoloring page, and the reason
why I did that is because whenyour divine, feminine, or in
this case, your sacral chakra isout of balance, you'll have a
really hard time coloring anddoing something that's not
focused and it's just like put acrayon or a colored pencil to
(35:09):
paper and just see what happens.
So this exercise, if anybodywants to try it at home, it's
just to pull out a piece ofpaper, pull out whatever tool
you want to use and don't thinkabout it, just flow, just let
whatever needs to come up on thepaper come up.
It's actually a therapyexercise that we use very often,
believe it or not, with kids.
(35:30):
It's like a form of playtherapy, but sometimes with
people where it feels like thatcreative process is kind of
spiraling.
So try it and just see whatgoes through without worrying
about how it ends up.
Lunden Souza (35:42):
Yeah, when I read that, I literally was like you
talking to me, because I feellike that's so much of a part
that I've worked on integratingright Of just like go, go, go
doing all the things feelings oflike jealousy, anxiety, all of
that resonates with the previousversion of myself, and so this
(36:07):
card, yeah, really spoke to meand it's so great.
I'm so grateful for you,danielle, and all the work you
put in the world.
And just personally, I'mgrateful because I said this
before we started but I was in ameeting with our lead team for
the organization that I workwith and our COO asked me like
who's been your favorite gueston the podcast?
(36:29):
And, granted, I am so gratefulfor all the guests.
I learned so much.
But it was like, without a doubt, I was like, oh, danielle Massi
, because of all of her work andI just talked about.
I'm like, yeah, you can onlyshine your light as bright as
you go into that darkness, andso I hope we've inspired those
listening today to grab yourbook, grab the deck, just start
(36:53):
inquiring of what that couldlook like in your life.
And I know Danielle has a lotof amazing programs to help you
navigate that not on your ownand a lot of coaches that you
certify in this work.
So thank you for you and all ofthat, and I'm so grateful to
have had this conversation withyou today, me too.
Danielle Massi (37:14):
You got me emotional again.
She said this to me rightbefore we started recording
today, so we started where I waslike, oh my God, and now we're
back here.
But if anybody is interested inshadow work, I hope that this
gives you a little bit of awindow into why it shouldn't be
scary, and hopefully it makesyou want to dive into your
shadow with us.
Lunden Souza (37:32):
And real quick before we sign off.
I believe it's@iamdaniellemassi on Instagram
website TikTok.
Danielle Massi (37:39):
YouTube website.
It's all the same, nice andeasy, so that it's not hard to
find me, and I'll be the onewith the red hair.
Lunden Souza (37:46):
Yeah, for those of you not watching the video, she
has like rocket fire red hairand I love it.
And right when we got on, I waslike I love just, yeah, the
physical embodiment of what youdo shines, or the, yeah, what
you do shines through yourphysical embodiment.
So beautiful, um, thank youguys for listening.
Connect with Danielle.
Thank you for being here andwe'll see you at the next
(38:08):
episode.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of Self Love
and Sweat, the Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
(38:29):
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
podcast ripple out into theworld of others.
And also, you can leave us areview up to five stars wherever
you're listening to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
(38:51):
episode.
I appreciate you.
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat, the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Welcome back to the podcast.
(00:24):
Today we have Danielle Masseyback on the show.
I'm so happy to have you back,babe.
How are you?
Danielle Massi (00:31):
I'm so good now that I'm here, how are you?
Lunden Souza (00:35):
I'm good, I'm really good.
I am just so stoked for ourconversation again.
Right before we pressed record,I was telling Danielle how much
her book Shadow Work changed mylife and just helped me create
yeah, more of what I want to seein my life, and I wouldn't be
here in Utah if it wasn't forthis book and for the work
(00:56):
that's part of this book.
So I'm just super grateful.
And how's Philly?
How is everything going on theother side of the country?
Danielle Massi (01:04):
Philly.
How is everything going on theother side of the country?
Philly is amazing.
We just had the Shadow Workdeck come out the companion to
the book, which it's been a bitof a whirlwind trying to put
that out there and haveeverybody see it and all the
excitement around it.
So I'm just sitting ingratitude right now and enjoying
a little bit of the end ofsummer as we get into that
witchy, spooky season thateveryone loves to do shadow work
(01:24):
in.
Lunden Souza (01:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm so excited to talk about
your deck and book and all thethings, but let's just dive
right in.
I found out about shadow workthrough your book, through you
being on my podcast, and I justfeel like it changed my whole
world.
And I was on a walk a couplemonths ago with a friend and she
(01:46):
asked me have you done shadowwork?
And I was like, yes, oh my gosh, I love it, danielle Massi,
this book.
And she was like oh my gosh, no, I'm too afraid to do shadow
work.
And so I want to start theconversation there for the
people listening that maybe haveheard of shadow work or maybe
they've never heard of it before, but they're like I don't know
about the shadows, I don't knowif I want to be there.
(02:07):
Why are people so afraid ofdiving into this shadow work?
Danielle Massi (02:11):
Well, let's start with the obvious fact that
it's called shadow work, andthat sounds really ominous and
scary the idea of our shadows,not even in a psychological
aspect, but just in life.
It means that there's darknessand we're very afraid of the
dark.
We, as kids, are afraid to bein spaces where it might be too
dark, where things might castshadows.
(02:33):
Shadows can look creepy becauseyou can manipulate them and
change the way that they are,and I think that idea of the
shadow being a scary spacetranslate over into what people
think shadow work is and whatit's all about, which there's so
much confusion around.
Just what is shadow work?
We even see it on places likeTikTok, where so many people are
(02:54):
talking about it and you canwatch a hundred videos and go.
I don't even know what this is.
Lunden Souza (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, and so I know we talked about this on
the first episode of what shadowwork is and I want everyone to
go back and listen to that, butcan we just do a quick rundown
of what that is and start there?
Danielle Massi (03:13):
Of course.
So back in the late 1800s,early 1900s, carl Jung, who was
the protege of Sigmund Freud,came up with this idea that we
have memories and informationthat is repressed and buried so
deep down within our psyche thatit's kind of hard for us to
access without someone else'shelp or without knowing exactly
(03:35):
how to get there.
He called it the shadow, andshadow work was the process of
being in a deep meditative statewhere you can access that space
and pull up those memories inan effort to heal them.
For us as people, when we thinkabout how many moments we have
throughout our lifetimes,there's so much that the brain
doesn't know what to do with, soit stuffs it and buries it down
(03:56):
.
It is not all bad, and I cannotstress this enough.
A lot of the things that livein that repressed, buried space
are things like a license platethat you've passed on the street
that your brain goes oh, jpf2287,.
Which is weird if somebodylistening to this is that one.
Lunden Souza (04:15):
I'm like, if that's somebody's license plate,
I'm going to die laughing.
If it's yours, let us know.
Danielle Massi (04:20):
I probably just saw it at some point in my
lifetime and our brain actuallycatalogs that information Every
second of every day of our livesis stored somewhere within the
mind.
We just don't need to accessinformation like that on a
regular basis.
So what happens is it getspushed and it gets buried and we
don't need it, but it doesinform the way that we see the
(04:40):
world.
So all this stuff that's hiddenchanges who you are at your
core and when our brains shapethemselves around these core
memories and these experiences,we see the world very
differently.
Some of us are triggered bythings that other people around
us look at us and go.
Why does that even bother you?
Why is it that this is makingyou feel this way?
(05:03):
Calm down, relax.
It's not a big deal.
How many times do we hear thatin a single month?
And it's because of yourshadows.
So shadow is really not scary,it's just the stuff you can't
see easily.
There's been a rebrand recentlyin the psychotherapy world of
calling it parts work instead ofshadow work.
(05:26):
Okay, because it sounds morepalatable and less creepy, less
scary, and they've done thatbecause they really want to get
us over this hurdle of feelinglike, ooh, shadow work that
sounds terrifying.
Where I kind of go the otherway.
I want to embrace it and makepeople feel like the shadows are
cool.
Lunden Souza (05:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I feel like going into thosedarker, let's say, or repressed,
areas.
I feel like being able to gothere.
So for someone listening that'safraid, I almost feel like it's
you're cleaning out the junkdrawer.
(06:05):
It's like you open it up andthere's all this stuff there's
scissors and wrapped up cordsand lip gloss with particles
corroded on the outside, and allthese things that you get to
start to organize and then havemore capacity to do your life's
work, to go out in the world andfulfill your purpose.
(06:27):
And I feel like going into thoseplaces feels exactly like the
junk drawer.
It's like the closet where youstuff everything into, and just
because the door is shut doesn'tmean that there's not things
behind that door to deal withand who knows what you might
find.
Even cleaning out my closet, Iwas like, oh, I thought there
(06:47):
was only pants right here, buthere's the matching jacket that
goes with it.
And what we can find in thoseshadows can be so useful and so
helpful and so connecting Someof the deepest things I've
discovered, or some of thoseshadow experiences, things I've
(07:08):
uncovered.
Then when I get to share themin community or with people that
I love and trust, I feel likeit brings us closer, because
we're just going throughout theworld thinking that like, okay,
what I see is what is and whatyou see in me is what is, but
there's so much below thesurface that I feel like when we
miss that, we miss a deeperconnection with those around us.
Danielle Massi (07:31):
Absolutely, we miss most of ourselves.
And let's stick with thisanalogy for a second, because I
kind of love the idea of thejunk drawer.
We know intuitively that youcan't leave a junk drawer
forever.
At some point it's going to beoverflowing.
You're not going to be able tosee what's in there.
It needs to clean out.
We've normalized this as aculture, as a society, as a
people.
(07:51):
Why don't we normalize that forthe brain?
Our brain only has the capacityto hold a certain amount of
information within thatunconscious mind and over time,
as that information accumulates,just like a junk drawer, it
starts to overflow and to spillout.
That's where we see people haveanxiety or depression.
(08:12):
That's where we see troublesleeping, issues around
performance, anxiety.
All that stuff is because thatjunk drawer, that metaphorical
junk drawer of the unconsciousmind, is starting to spill out
into other spaces.
If we think back to hundreds ofyears ago, where people's
lifespans were shorter, itwasn't as big of a deal unless
(08:33):
you were severely traumatizedand there was a lot that was
repressed because we were onlyliving into our 30s and 40s.
But now we're living into our80s and beyond.
So that capacity to overflow isjust that much higher and it
really does stop us from beingable to live life on our terms,
because there's so much stuff,so much junk that's holding us
(08:56):
back from being in our truestpotential.
Lunden Souza (08:59):
Yeah, yeah, I like that junk drawer analogy too,
and I think those listening canresonate with exactly what you
said of just like you can'tignore it forever and then when
you organize the junk drawer,there's more space for things,
or maybe you realize you don'teven need all that junk and you
can put something in there.
That's, yeah, more useful, moreaccessible.
(09:21):
That's more useful, moreaccessible.
And, like I said, I just feellike every time I go back to
your book a lot and now that Ihave your card deck it's so
great but I feel like every timeI uncover another shadow,
another part, then I feel likethis whole evolution and
(09:42):
elevation in my personal life,my relationships, my
professional life, justeverything gets an upgrade.
So I think people, you know youhear we were talking about
TikTok and shadow, you hearthese, you know, oh yeah, let's
elevate to be our best selves,like we're evolving into who
we're becoming.
But that just doesn't happen byour conscious mind decision to
(10:07):
then do it and then just try tocontrol and be as perfect as
possible.
And I'm speaking fromexperience, where it's like you
become aware of something andthen you think you can just
change it by doing more orpushing that feeling down when
that trigger comes up,pretending like it's not
triggering you and movingforward.
(10:27):
But I feel like every time I'vehad this death and resurrection
, if you will, in my life, it'salways because of going to those
darker parts and acknowledgingthat.
And I believe that in order toevolve and in order to manifest
the life that you want, youcan't ignore that.
(10:48):
You can't, and if you try,you're not going to get to reach
for lack of better words yourfullest potential or live your
dream life, which is a buzzwordthat we hear a lot too.
It doesn't just come from aconscious mind decision.
It comes from navigating thatsubconscious realm and
(11:08):
continuing to elevate and evolveand become even more because of
it.
Hey, really quick, I want tointerrupt the podcast for just a
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Danielle Massi (13:11):
Exactly.
Our neurochemistry is becominga buzz in itself on social media
, where you hear every coach outthere talking about change your
neural pathways, alter yourbrain, but not a lot of them
actually understand what thatmeans and they don't have the
education to speak to that.
This is where the work is done.
If you actually want to becomea better version of yourself,
(13:33):
you can try and talk yourselfinto it with affirmations.
You can do some behavioralchanges with CBT, which I've
been trained in.
All those things are lovely,but at the end of the day, your
brain hasn't really shifted, notenough.
You might've moved this much,just a little pinch, but in
order to see the world the waythat you want to, to show up
every day as the best version ofyourself, you have to actually
(13:55):
become someone whose brainmatches that, whose energy
matches that, and that's wherethat death and rebirth cycle of
shadow work can be so powerfuland can really help you manifest
whatever it is that you'rehoping to achieve.
Because if you want to besomething, you can change your
brain to become that version ofyou that can have it, and it
(14:16):
really is simple.
I think we overcomplicate a lotof that stuff and we think it's
going to be scary or reallyhard to do, but when you know
the pathway to change neuralpathways, it just comes down to
going back to those moments andinterrupting the way that you've
seen it before.
So changing the senses,changing the emotions, changing
(14:38):
the way that your body isphysically reacting and then
ultimately changing how youchoose to think about it.
And once you hack one of those,it changes for good and that's
it.
Lunden Souza (14:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And I saw something on socialmedia the other day that was
like it's not enough to go backand heal the child or talk to
the child within, you have tobecome the adult that stops the
pattern.
Yeah, and that really spoke tome, because I think a lot of
(15:12):
people spend time doing thiswork, but then we also have to
be the grownup adult that sayshey, no, mas not doing this
anymore.
Adult that says hey, no, masnot doing this anymore.
And I'm going to reach out forsupport and I'm going to dive
into these areas, these parts ofme, so that, instead of pushing
them away and having guilt andshame and anxiety and depression
(15:35):
and all of this, well, what canI learn from that?
What can I bring to the tableso that that's not running the
show?
Because it's going to run theshow, whether you choose to
acknowledge it or not.
That subconscious mind, thoseshadows, are going to run the
show.
And then it's just going to belike oh, this is my life and
this is just the way things are.
But we really have thatcapacity the brain is so
(15:57):
beautiful to change the way thatthings fire and wire, and I
think about past versions ofmyself, and I'm sure you do too,
danielle, and all that you'veexperienced where it's like, oh,
I'm no longer that person.
I appreciate her, thank you, butI can't even find that emotion.
(16:17):
I can't find that triggeranymore because, quite frankly,
it died it's gone, it's notthere.
Yeah.
Danielle Massi (16:27):
Yeah, fascinating when you think about
it truly, and I wonder.
This is something that I'venoticed.
I should preface this a littlebit.
I used to teach abnormalpsychology and development of
the brain at Penn State and whenI was a teacher we talked about
something called phenotype.
Your phenotype is how your DNAexpresses itself, based on the
(16:49):
experiences that you've hadthroughout your life.
There's genotype and there'sphenotype, so you can have
identical twins.
One of them grows up inPhiladelphia, where it's like
the air is smoggy, there's likemore violence on the streets.
I live in Philly and it's justlike a different world.
Someone else lives in ColoradoSprings, where there's mountains
(17:11):
, there's fresh air, they'redrinking water straight out of
the mountain and the mountain istoo inclined Like.
It's just a differentexperience.
They will actually lookdifferent physically.
It's not even something that'sjust changing the brain.
It's also changing the physicalexpression of DNA.
The one who lives in ColoradoSprings might become a little
bit taller.
They might be leaner, moremuscular.
(17:33):
Their eye color might be even alittle bit brighter.
There's going to be tangibledifferences.
So I wonder, Lunden, if you'veever looked back at photos of
yourself from before and noticedthat you look different.
I look back at photos of myselffrom five years ago and I feel
like I'm aging in reverse andI'm not changing the way that
I'm eating.
I'm not changing my physicality.
(17:53):
All I'm changing is dealingwith the stuff I've repressed
and letting it change the waythat I live my life.
I'm more at peace now and youcan see it all over my face and
my body.
Lunden Souza (18:04):
Yeah, do you see that for yourself too?
I noticed that for myself andothers have noticed this too.
I'll get messages where it'slike, oh, this chapter Utah,
they'll call it looks good onyou, whatever you're doing.
And I was looking yesterday.
I was on WhatsApp, in aWhatsApp group, and I have like
a default picture that I musthave chosen.
You know, I think it was yearsago yeah, years ago, over five
(18:28):
years ago and it's a greatpicture, but I can just tell
that my smile is different.
There's like I look at it andI'm like, oh, that's the girl
that thought she had to do more,work harder, do all the things
in order to be worthy, in orderto be good enough.
This is the girl that woke upand pushed down the shadow, not
(18:49):
really knowing it, just to showup and smile and be the person
that she thought she wassupposed to be, in order to be
who she wanted to be.
Right, For lack of better words, it just let's say it like this
.
It was as authentic as I couldbe with the tools I had at the
time.
But when I look at the picturein the smile, I was like, oh, I
(19:10):
can just see in my smile it'sdifferent.
I can see the shape of my face.
I just yeah, and you notice it.
And then people will say thattoo, like what have you been
doing?
What's your skincare routine?
And I'm like, honestly, it'sthe work-ins.
Right, I was in working out forso long all about the workouts,
(19:30):
and now I'm like, oh, I justthink the work-ins are the best
anti-aging secret on the planet.
I don't know what else to tellyou, absolutely.
Danielle Massi (19:38):
And it's a combination of all these things
that really gives us the abilityto do everything for ourselves.
And the fact that people are soafraid of shadow work and
they're so afraid to go to thosespaces but they will show up in
other ways always kind of blowsmy mind, because I can watch
someone be so dedicated in onespace and so terrified somewhere
else, when really, if we lookat the results, it's not
(20:01):
something to be afraid of, it'ssomething to be excited about.
Look how things can move andlook how you can become who it
is that you're hoping to becomein a really simple way.
Lunden Souza (20:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And the way that I came to Utahwas through your book, her book
, danielle's book, shadow Work.
I love it because and the samething on top but this book has
sat on my coffee table and Ilove it because when people come
(20:39):
over they'll sit down andthey'll open it.
When my family comes to visit,I make sure it's really visible
so they can come and check itout.
But I love it because there'sso many exercises in this book,
pretty much with every chapterof like, okay, here's the
concept behind it and thenhere's how you do it.
And it's so applicable.
(21:00):
And I had a chance to speak withDanielle's coaching alumni or
student alumni one time and Ipulled out my journal and I was
like, look, this is the page ofmanifestation.
This was all the sensoryexperience I wanted to have when
I moved back from Austria, cameto California, knew California
(21:20):
wasn't where I wanted to be, butI wasn't sure where, and so
instead of saying like, oh, onthe map, where am I going to go
next?
It was like, oh, what's thesensory experience I want to
have?
What am I smelling, what am Iseeing, what am I tasting, what
am I feeling?
And really getting into thatexperience and I remember one of
them was like my feet are inthe rocks with stream water
(21:43):
rushing over them.
So now I'm hiking and everytime I have that opportunity I
put my feet in the rocks as asymbol of that shadow work and
that manifestation.
And so why is shadow work socritical to manifestation?
Why can't we just say, oh, Iwant to have a big house and my
dream man and my life Like, whyis the declaration of it just
(22:06):
with our words not enough?
Because so many people say Iwant to manifest this or I'm
manifesting this and I just wantto make sure we're doing it the
right way.
Danielle Massi (22:16):
This is going to be the simplest manifestation
lesson you ever get, and foranyone who's listening to this,
this is the point where I wantyour ears to perk up.
We have a very specific processfor creating neural pathways
which are like super highways inthe brain.
Every second of every day,you're taking in everything
around you with all your senses.
You're smelling, you're hearing, you're tasting, you're
(22:37):
touching and so on, and thosesenses are communicating to your
brain what to do next.
They're creating a chemical.
We know that chemical asemotions.
So it might make you feel atpeace, it might make you feel
like you're angry, it might makeyou feel excited.
Whenever the chemical messengeris, that's going to send a
message down through thebrainstem, down through your
(22:59):
spine.
It's going to send it out tothe body and that physical
reaction that we know is fight,flight, freeze or fawn or, if
we're switching to the otherside of things, rest and digest
peace within the body.
That's going to tell the bodywhere to send blood and oxygen.
So are we pumping it out sothat you can have all of your
(23:20):
senses help you move, to run, tofight, to do whatever you need,
or is it going to let you takea deep breath and send all that
blood and oxygen to places thatneed restoration to the heart,
to anywhere that needs repair.
If you have an injury somewhere, are're sending blood and
oxygen there because we havetime to repair those things and
ultimately, that loop closeswhen the body sends a chemical
(23:43):
reaction back up to the entericnervous system in the form of a
thought.
That's why we say that your gutis sort of like your second
brain.
It's telling your brain in thismoment we're good or this is
not good.
Whatever the message is, it'sgoing to give you a thought.
If you know that that is howneural pathways are created, you
know that that is how memorieshave stored throughout your body
(24:06):
throughout your lifetime.
You also know that that is hownew things can be created too.
So shadow work is the processof going backwards, it's
breaking down the old neuralpathways, but manifestation is
the process of creating newneural pathways.
So we want to use that exactsame loop, the subconscious
(24:27):
feedback loop, to create the newstuff.
So if you want to have thatexperience where your feet are
in the rocks and you feel thewater and you can smell the
fresh air and you feel thebreeze from you, can smell the
fresh air and you feel thebreeze from the mountain during
the hike and all that stuff iskind of flooding over you.
If you can create thatexperience without even
physically being there, bytapping into the senses, the
(24:49):
emotions, the physical reactionto it and the thoughts, your
brain thinks you're alreadythere and it starts to make
neural pathways based on thisreality.
I don't know if anybodylistening to this has ever
watched a TV show.
My husband used to be obsessedwith Tosh.0.
And these dumb shows are likeYouTube, where you watch someone
(25:10):
getting hurt and, as it happens, you're like ugh, you can feel
it.
You feel the pain of someone ona skateboard kind of face
planting hitting the concrete.
Even me talking about it rightnow might make a physical
reaction happen in your body.
The reason that happens isbecause of this process.
Our brains are always lookingfor information and we have this
(25:32):
experience called mirrorneurons, where our brains are
kind of mimicking what they seeand experience through your
senses and imagining ishappening to you.
Our brains are extremelycreative that way.
So if you can use that andinstead of thinking about pain
or injury or whatever else, andtap into positive experience or
(25:52):
what could be, if you can useall those pieces of it and feel
it so deeply.
Your brain knows what it feelslike and can create a neural
pathway out of nothing, so it'seasier to get it, and that's how
you manifest.
Lunden Souza (26:07):
We don't have to see it to experience it
internally.
It's that internal way that wefire and wire to then have more
of those experiences.
Danielle Massi (26:18):
Yep, you just have to give those mirror
neurons the opportunity, andwhen you sit in that space, they
go.
We need a neural pathway forthat.
Lunden Souza (26:25):
Yep Build the road .
Danielle Massi (26:28):
Build the road, build the road.
I like that.
Lunden Souza (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I love watching those videos I
mean, you guys can YouTube it oflike the new neurons firing
together and building pathways.
Danielle Massi (26:40):
Oh, I love watching those.
Lunden Souza (26:42):
So satisfying.
Those videos are so satisfyingbecause you see it, it's like
I'm almost like cheering forthem.
You see them start to go andthey make the connection, then
try connecting new axons, it'sso fun.
And then they may be like, youknow, disconnect.
And then the more that werepeat go down that road, choose
that road, be the adult thatchooses that road, despite maybe
(27:04):
some things that happened whenwe're younger.
It's like I encourage everybodyjust to YouTube like new neural
pathways forming, like justlook at that, it's so cool to
see, because it's so possible.
We don't have to say this isjust the way I am, this is just
you know, I'm going to be thisway forever.
It's like, actually, if you saythat and choose that, that's a
(27:26):
cop-out.
That's not allowing A thousandpercent.
And I say that always honestand respectful.
But it's like it's such acop-out to just stay the same,
especially if that's not youknow, if you're complaining
about your life or you don'twant to have the experiences
that you're experiencing.
Danielle Massi (27:43):
Our personalities are not set in
stone.
Your personality is not writtenon your DNA.
It's not anywhere on thatcoding.
It's all based on how you'velived your life.
There is something like onelittle piece of your DNA that
decides whether or not you'reextroverted, irritable, but that
even in itself can be activatedor deactivated.
(28:03):
And that's part of what we weretalking about earlier with that
genotype versus phenotype thing.
Your experiences can shift thatand move it, kind of like a
light switch, flicking it on oroff.
Other than that, yourpersonality is based on what you
believe, and I have this fightsometimes with people who are
really into astrology.
I actually love astrology.
(28:23):
I'm a Capricorn stellium.
I am a true Capricorn Scorpio'sin my 12th house.
So I think that's like theepicenter for shadow work is
like a 12th house Scorpiopoliceman.
But when we look at thosethings, they should inform us,
they shouldn't define us.
So, yes, I am very type A, I'morganized, I'm a planner.
(28:47):
It's why I've been able towrite books and do all these
amazing things I've done.
But I don't let that limit me.
I don't let that stop me fromalways taking the opportunities
to do something else.
Capricorns get a rap for beingcold, and at least once a day I
go check in on your friends, askhow they're doing, see who the
people in your life who love youare up to Like.
(29:08):
Check in with people, dosomething else, and that's a
choice that I'm making.
So, even if there's somethingthat you feel like is part of
your nature, you can fight thatnature and change your neural
pathways to lean into otheraspects of who you are.
It doesn't have to define you.
If you don't want it to, and Iagree, choosing to let your oh,
I'm just like this as a personthing define you.
(29:30):
That's such a cop-out.
I used to be such an introvert.
Now I'm not.
I'm definitely recharging inspace where I'm alone, but I'm
on stages all the time.
I'm in rooms surrounded bypeople, I'm the life of the
party, and then I'll go home andread a book and talk to no one
for a while.
But you can change these things.
It doesn't have to be defined.
Lunden Souza (29:49):
Yes, both.
And let's talk about your carddeck.
For those of you watching thevideo, it's this beautiful 40
card deck with a guide book andworkbook.
I'll link everything, of course, in the show notes, but I would
love for you to tell us moreabout this, how we can use it.
(30:09):
And then I thought I could picka card for everybody listening
here today and read it.
Yes, please, okay.
Danielle Massi (30:14):
So the deck came about for me.
I started manifesting what itwould.
Yes, please, okay.
So the deck came about for me.
I started manifesting what itwould be like to do a deck
before the book even hit theshelves.
I could see it in my mind.
I did a similar experience towhat you did with Utah, where I
just felt like what it wouldlook like being next to each
other on a shelf at Barnes andNoble and seeing it, smelling
(30:35):
the way that a Barnes Noblesmells, feeling it, being able
to hold the cards in my hand andfeel the way that they shuffled
.
I made it very tangible in mymind.
For myself, the cards are reallya perfect way for anyone who is
looking to do shadow work ontheir own but doesn't really
know where to start.
The book does explain how to gointo the meditative state, how
(30:56):
to pull up memories, but thatcan be know where to start.
The book does explain how to gointo the meditative state, how
to pull up memories, but thatcan be intimidating in the
beginning.
So the deck is to give you alittle bit of guidance about
where you should focus on agiven day.
I do believe that there's noaccidents.
Whatever card you pull is meantfor you that day.
So whatever direction you'rebeing pulled into, whichever way
(31:17):
the universe is leading you, itwill show.
And the cards themselves aresplit into a few different
categories.
There's the Jungian archetypes,because obviously Carl Jung is
the father of shadow work.
We could not have a nod to himin there.
So cards like the ego and thepersona and the hero's journey
you'll find them in the carddeck.
Then there's things like energycenters, so really tapping into
(31:41):
the chakras.
There's a shadow astrologysection, so cards like black
Lilith, new moon, full moonyou'll find those in here.
And then there's someactivation cards too that are
nods directly to things in thebook that I talk about.
So moments from the book that Ipulled into the card deck to
just help you find what it isthat you need to focus your
(32:02):
energy on to create big shifts.
So that's what the cards arefor and how they're used.
And something that thepublishing house was lovely
about, thank goodness, was thatI really wanted there to be a
workbook too.
Yeah, and I think pulling cardsis awesome.
A workbook too.
Yeah, because I think pullingcards is awesome.
I love an Oracle deck, but withshadow work specifically,
(32:23):
sometimes you need a little more.
So the workbook is to give youvery tangible, specific
activities, just like in thebook, that you can do
immediately, so that you don'thave to figure out okay, here's
some awareness, but now what?
I wanted to answer the questionof now what, without you having
to think about it, to make thisreally accessible.
Lunden Souza (32:45):
Got it and I haven't actually dove into the
workbook yet.
I've been picking a card.
When I fail, call to pick one,usually in the evenings, and I
use the guidebook.
So, with the workbook, whatevercard we pick, is there a
corresponding exercise?
Danielle Massi (33:00):
Yeah, every single one of them has a
corresponding section in there.
So if you pull the black Lilithcard, there's the black Lilith
exercise.
Lunden Souza (33:08):
I'm going to pick one, so I'm going to, before we
close, I'm going to pick a cardfor everyone, for everybody
listening.
This will just be one that wethere, it jumped right out, I
love a jumper.
Jumper Divine Feminine.
Danielle Massi (33:26):
Oh yes.
Lunden Souza (33:27):
Creativity, freedom and Flow.
So good.
So I'll open up the workbookand kind of read this for
everyone, and I'm sure it'llspeak to everybody in the way
it's supposed to.
Okay, so divine femininecreativity, freedom and flow.
(33:48):
For too long you have been outof balance with your feminine
energy.
By having either an excess or alack of feminine energy, you
have been navigating your worldfrom imbalance.
An excess of feminine energycan look like creation without
action, codependency, moodswings, manipulation, jealousy,
boundary issues and lack offocus.
(34:09):
It can physically manifest asreproductive problems, urinary
tract infections and addiction.
A lack of feminine energy canlook like a lack of creativity,
sexual repression, disconnect ordetachment, rigidity or working
too much.
It can physically manifest aslower back pain, infertility
issues or bladder kidneyproblems.
(34:30):
Being in full alignment withyour divine feminine requires
balance between your masculineand feminine energies, and the
mantra is I awaken.
The flow of divine femininerequires balance between your
max masculine and feminineenergies, and the mantra is I
awaken the flow of divinefeminine energy within me,
activating creation, freedom andflow.
Danielle Massi (34:47):
The workbook exercise for this one I'll pop
this up here is actually acoloring page, and the reason
why I did that is because whenyour divine, feminine, or in
this case, your sacral chakra isout of balance, you'll have a
really hard time coloring anddoing something that's not
focused and it's just like put acrayon or a colored pencil to
(35:09):
paper and just see what happens.
So this exercise, if anybodywants to try it at home, it's
just to pull out a piece ofpaper, pull out whatever tool
you want to use and don't thinkabout it, just flow, just let
whatever needs to come up on thepaper come up.
It's actually a therapyexercise that we use very often,
believe it or not, with kids.
(35:30):
It's like a form of playtherapy, but sometimes with
people where it feels like thatcreative process is kind of
spiraling.
So try it and just see whatgoes through without worrying
about how it ends up.
Lunden Souza (35:42):
Yeah, when I read that, I literally was like you
talking to me, because I feellike that's so much of a part
that I've worked on integratingright Of just like go, go, go
doing all the things feelings oflike jealousy, anxiety, all of
that resonates with the previousversion of myself, and so this
(36:07):
card, yeah, really spoke to meand it's so great.
I'm so grateful for you,danielle, and all the work you
put in the world.
And just personally, I'mgrateful because I said this
before we started but I was in ameeting with our lead team for
the organization that I workwith and our COO asked me like
who's been your favorite gueston the podcast?
(36:29):
And, granted, I am so gratefulfor all the guests.
I learned so much.
But it was like, without a doubt, I was like, oh, danielle Massi
, because of all of her work andI just talked about.
I'm like, yeah, you can onlyshine your light as bright as
you go into that darkness, andso I hope we've inspired those
listening today to grab yourbook, grab the deck, just start
(36:53):
inquiring of what that couldlook like in your life.
And I know Danielle has a lotof amazing programs to help you
navigate that not on your ownand a lot of coaches that you
certify in this work.
So thank you for you and all ofthat, and I'm so grateful to
have had this conversation withyou today, me too.
Danielle Massi (37:14):
You got me emotional again.
She said this to me rightbefore we started recording
today, so we started where I waslike, oh my God, and now we're
back here.
But if anybody is interested inshadow work, I hope that this
gives you a little bit of awindow into why it shouldn't be
scary, and hopefully it makesyou want to dive into your
shadow with us.
Lunden Souza (37:32):
And real quick before we sign off.
I believe it's@iamdaniellemassi on Instagram
website TikTok.
Danielle Massi (37:39):
YouTube website.
It's all the same, nice andeasy, so that it's not hard to
find me, and I'll be the onewith the red hair.
Lunden Souza (37:46):
Yeah, for those of you not watching the video, she
has like rocket fire red hairand I love it.
And right when we got on, I waslike I love just, yeah, the
physical embodiment of what youdo shines, or the, yeah, what
you do shines through yourphysical embodiment.
So beautiful, um, thank youguys for listening.
Connect with Danielle.
Thank you for being here andwe'll see you at the next
(38:08):
episode.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of Self Love
and Sweat, the Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
(38:29):
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
podcast ripple out into theworld of others.
And also, you can leave us areview up to five stars wherever
you're listening to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
(38:51):
episode.
I appreciate you.
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