Ep 50: Feminine testing & ‘The Nice Guy’

This episode dives deep into why women feel the need to ‘test’ their men. And why trying to be a ‘nice guy’ doesn’t make a woman feel safe. 

Here’s some of what we chat about… 

• Getting a puppy 
• How our families are complete opposites 
• What is Feminine testing & why do women do it? 
• Why it’s incredibly sexy when a man is unwavering in his belief 
• The power of playfulness in moments of Feminine testing 
• Asking for respect vs. Commanding respect 
• The risk of bringing play & lightness to these moments 
• Stubbornness vs. Being unwavering as a man 
• The Masculine art of holding a deeper level of consciousness 
• You can be a powerful woman AND enjoy the experience of being led & deeply supported by your man 
• Meg trying to tell Jacob what to wear. And why it NEVER works 
• Why the NICE GUY isn’t a safe guy 
• The Nice guy is trying to please his Mother & not upset his Father
• And much more 

⚡ If you loved this episode & the podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss anything. 

AND… it would mean the world to us if you rated & reviewed the show. 
We carefully read each and every review, and we love hearing about your experience with the podcast!

⚡️Let’s Stay Connected:  

IG: @the.meg.o @thejacoboneill @sexloveeverythinginbetween 

⚡ Want more? Here are some of the offerings & courses you can join us in…

The Desire Date: A sexy date night experience for couples ready to re-ignite passion & deepen intimacy.

Ignite Your Intimacy: A 4 week course for couples ready for a sexier, wilder, more ALIVE relationship… NOW! 

Jacob & Meg also coach individuals & couples. Reach out to them via Instagram for more information. 

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:04):
Hey beautiful humans.
Welcome to sex, love andeverything in between. You're
here with Jacob and my wife,Meg. And this is the place where
we have all the very, very realraw and extremely unfiltered
conversations about sex, loveand everything in between.

(00:29):
It's here you get a behind thescenes look into our
relationship. And we will not beholding back well, we might not
know. You don't know how to dothat. Not at all. So beautiful
ones. Thank you for being here.
Enjoy this episode.
Hey, lover. Hi my man. Hey,lovers. Hey, lovers. It's been a

(00:52):
minute since we've been in thepodcast chairs. I know. We got
some episodes a few weeks ago.
We got organized. So yeah, Ifeel like it's I feel like it's
been ages. It's probably been 10days.
It's been 10 days. You Enma rateg h heaven.

(01:13):
What I said that sounds likeheaven.
My avoidant tendencies comingthrough.
They just like space, you knowthe power of space? Yes. How are
you feeling today? My love. I'mreally chilled today. I feel
really good. I went to Pilates.
did some work. Read my book? I'mreading a sexy fantasy novel
right now.
Just for anyoneto know. Like kind of like Shrek

(01:39):
I am sexy shrink. I'm never intofantasy and we also got a puffy
guys. Oh, yeah. Sorry, guys.
There is a third person in thestudio. Yeah, well, he's
actually don't even give a shitabout us. He's just left. Yeah.
I thought I wanted him to likelie down. I thought he was gonna
sit on your lap and just rollin. And I've had him he was
doing that a little bit. Buthe's he's getting a lot bolder

(02:01):
in his.
He's definitely bring in thepsychotic vibes.
He's a menace. When I took himon a walk yesterday. He has been
pretty chilled, though. He hashe has. So yeah, for those of
you that I'm sure most of youfollow us on Instagram right
now. We have a dog. We have adog Jacob surprised me with a

(02:23):
dog dog people now. Yeah, I'venever owned a dog ever in my
life. And Jacob you've owned?
I've never known you many. I'venever I didn't. I don't know.
Like my childhood. There wasalways at least two dogs at my
house.
Minimum. Yeah.
And now whenever we go home toyour parents house, usually

(02:44):
there are puppies as puppies.
There's another dog that I don'tknow where it's always get dog
like, yeah, there's always atleast four dogs, three dogs
three to four dogs that yourparents there is Yeah. Yeah. So
you had said a few weeks ago youwere like because we wanted to
get a dog about a year ago. Andthen we were gonna go get a
rescue. And we found a rescue weliked but then it was. It was

(03:04):
like, nearly two years old andwe just did with our property
isn't fenced. So we were like,that would be hectic. Yeah.
And then you said like, and thenbecause we want to have you
know, children soon. I was justlike, I that that just feels way
too intense for me to kind ofhave a have a dog before we have

(03:24):
a baby. Because I've watchedother people do that. And that
just looks really intense.
And then you're set a few monthsago, you were like, Oh, I nearly
bought a dog today.
What do you mean me nearlybought a dog and you were like,
Yeah, I just saw some bluecatalog online. I was legit. And

(03:45):
we bought it. I nearly boughtit. I don't know whether I was
having a feeling lonely orneeded to some I don't know
whether it was driven but I wasjust like, Oh, I think it's time
for me to get a dog. I had lovedthat. And that got me so
excited. And then I said to youin that I said, if you get a dog
do not tell me like just show upwith it. And you literally did

(04:05):
that I did that. You're evenjoking on inside at night like
you've joked about it onInstagram that weekend when
you're away. Should I bring Meghome a dog? And then I nearly
brought him to the office thesecond one the his brother? I
Yeah. And then he said lastweek, like a day after he got
him in my cousin is gonna bringanother Kelby for us increases.

(04:26):
I don't know.
I'm a nerd of that. That wouldbe way too intense. Yes, that
would be that will be full on.
But I love and I reflected thisback to you this week that I
grew up in a household wherelike my dad is like
wherever he is straight, he'svery straight. He's like,

(04:48):
meticulouslyorganized or like plant my
family loves a plan. Unlikegrowing up, there wasn't a lot
of spontaneity. There wasn't alot of spontaneity
to my home and even likeeverything was structured even
the way we commune with naturewas on a hockey field. Like I
was never really in nature. Iwasn't really doing like it was

(05:10):
very structured City LivingEverything was planned during do
something if it doesn't makesense so we I wanted to dog we
wanted to dog so bad growing up,my dad was just like, No, no,
no, no, no.
And you like what I love familyso sensible. It's so, so
sensible and your family, myfamily is nonsense. And

(05:35):
nonsensical. Which I love it, Ireflected this back to you, that
you that is a part of you that Ilove the fact that like, I never
got surprised like that, oh,there wasn't anything that was
like, Oh my gosh, when I wasyounger, a lot of the time.
And so I loved that you justliterally rocked out with a
puppy. And we did not have thatconversation. We didn't say

(05:57):
like,what are the pros and cons?
Yeah, you would usually rockedup with a puppet puppy and
suddenly had a puppy. But I alsowhy I can respect that energy is
because you don't do that. Andthen go Hi, your responsibility.
I was okay with that. Becauseyou rocked up with a puppy. And
I know, you're devoted to beingthe one to train the puppy pick
up the puppies poo, like, youknow, you're then responsible

(06:19):
for the decision. And I thinkI've seen in, you know, there's,
there's other other people usethat energy of like spontaneity
to maybe get a quick dopaminehit or to like, surprise their
partner in some way, but thenmaybe don't follow up with the
devotion and commitment towhatever they've brought into
the space. So I just wanted tobring that because it's like, I

(06:44):
think that's level ofspontaneity is like, Yeah,
that's really exciting. And Ireally appreciate it and love
that in you. But you also backit with responsibility. Yeah,
it's not just this likemomentary, like feeling that I
create and like, oh, look whatI've done such a good job
looking at me being like thesurprise, the man with the
surprise, but then it's like,oh, this actually requires me to

(07:04):
now for the next15 years be responsible for this
dog? Yeah.
Because I think spontaneitywithout responsibility is chaos.
Totally. Yeah. Which, if you'rea man,
you know, in relationship with awoman, that is not a good
combination, because that's notgoing to have her feeling safe.

(07:26):
That's not going to have hertrusting you. That's probably
going to have her doubting yourdecisions all the time. And
potentially,yeah, doubting your decisions,
what I would say to this, andthis is important for men to
understand, it can be a surpriseand feel spontaneous for your
partner. But it can be a reallywell thought out decision for
you. Yeah, okay. I love that. Soif you want to surprise your

(07:49):
partner, like, you don't haveto, like, tell them everything
or ask them everything, to makesure that you get it right.
Because guess what, I get itwrong, a lot. Listen to two
episodes.
I get it wrong a lot. But I'malso very willing to take a

(08:13):
risk. And that is what makes thethe passion, the excitement, the
attraction in our relationship,continue to grow. Yeah. And I
truly believe that if I didn'ttake the risks that I did in our
relationship, if I didn't likeback myself and trust myself,
and at times when you don't, youmight doubt me, or you might

(08:33):
your your stories or beliefsmight come through, like, that's
not a sensible thing to do. Ihave to trust myself, I have to
be like, No, this is I can dothis. That's and I think we're
going to deepen into this inthis episode. But that's one of
the things I find sexiest aboutyou that even in the face of my
doubt, you, you are unwavering.
And that's what I feel. That'swhat makes me feel so safe. Yes,

(08:55):
in this relationship. And Ithink this is the essence, if
those listening have heard oflike feminine testing before,
which is almost this likebehavior of the feminine, where
we kind of want to like push onour man to make sure
energetically, we're going tokeep going, I just bought it in.
That's okay. We want to likepush on our man energetically,

(09:18):
to see if he's rooted to see ifhe's unwavering to see if he's
like solid in what he believesin his decision in himself. And
this can this can lean into amanipulative quality. So I don't
think, you know, we shouldalways be testing our partners,
but I think this is just like anatural part of the feminine

(09:40):
where, you know, say you decide,and this happens a lot.
Say you decide to do something,maybe it's in your business or
an I bring a little bit of mydoubt.
You will go thank you forsharing that.
I'm still going to do the thingI just said you
Huh, thank you. And I'm really,really appreciate you bringing

(10:03):
those things and I can hear thatyou're worried or I can, I can
hear that. There's things comingup here around this. And I'm
still devoted to doing thisthing. I trust myself.
And that's so fucking sexy. Sofucking sexy to be like, even
when I test you, and I try andproject my doubt on to you,

(10:26):
you're not taking a fucking barof it. And you're also gonna
listen to me and have me have meexperiencing the feeling of
being heard. And not shaming mefor bringing that but you're
also not going to let it fuckingtouch you. And that's just like,
Haha, unbelievably sexy. Andyou're so right in the allowing

(10:48):
you to still be heard. Yeah,like I'm not making you like
feel wrong for having that doubtor having that feeling. Yeah.
And I'm not making you wrong forfeet. Like for bringing that to
me. It's very much a thank you.
Thank you for sharing that mylove, I can totally see how that
that's that would be the waythat you feel. And I'm also
going to continue to do it.
Yeah, yeah, I've taken on whatI've taken, what you've said

(11:10):
onboard, and I'm still going todo the thing that I said I was
going to do so thank you. Butum, yeah, I'm going to continue
on the path. And I think we aswomen can really come face to
face with our controllingtendencies in those moments,
wherewe're not willing to be with our
own discomfort.

(11:32):
So we want to control our man'sexperience of what they're
doing. So we don't have to feelcertain things. And then that
will be the thing thatdepolarizes your relationship
removes the attraction andinevitably leads to a very much
sexless relationship or the endof it. Yeah. Yeah, that hasn't

(11:55):
man most likely feeling reallydisrespected, controlled, and
inspired. Yeah. And as womenlike, underneath that part of us
that wants to control and likefeels the need to control and
micromanage. apana underneaththat I truly believe is a deep
desire to feel like the power ofour man and feel his capacity

(12:20):
for life and to trust that, butthat doesn't just happen. It's
not as if our man just magicallybecomes this like, unbelievably
trustworthy man, you could putthe most trustworthy man in
front of you. And he could begiving you so much evidence that
you can trust him. But that's aninside job for you as a woman,

(12:40):
like you need to choose to trustHim, you need to choose to be
with the parts of you that likeknow, oh my God, I want to
control I want to control it'sunsafe. Like, that's you've got
to be with your own discomfort.
That's a huge part of thejourney of respecting and
trusting and empowering your manis being with your own
discomfort. And that can look assimple as and we've used this

(13:02):
example many times before. Yourman is driving out to dinner
he's taking on a date, or you'redriving fucking anywhere he's
driving, and you tell him, yousuddenly realize he's taking a
right when you would take a leftand you think the left is the
right way.
There's discomfort in your body.
There's like, oh, that's thewrong way. What are you doing?
I'm uncomfortable. I want if hewent left, I would be

(13:24):
comfortable. And so you want tosay something and say like, oh,
you should go left here. That'sthe right What are you doing?
Where again, this isn'tempowering. This isn't showing
him respect or trust. So inorder to show him respect, and
trust and really empower him,you couldn't be with the
discomfort of he's gone right? Iwould have gone left. Can I

(13:45):
relax into this? Can I trustthat we're still gonna get to
the fucking destination? And canI just can I deeply trust that
he knows where he's going andwhat he's doing.
And that's such a micro momentor a minute moment, but that
really sets the tone foran entire relationship moments
like that massivelyas a man like if you're a woman

(14:09):
does bring out feminine testingmoment like, you don't have to
take it personally. You don'thave to make it out that you're
wrong and that you need to proveto her that you're right. Hey,
man, I love you. I know you cango that way. But I'm saying I'm
going this way. We're gonna getthere. Don't worry. We'll be on
time. I got toput on your favorite song.

(14:32):
There's something about meetingthat part of the feminine with
lightness and play. That'sincredibly healing. Yes. Because
if you meet that part of thefeminine with defense, or
sensitivity like your own yourown, take it personally. That is

(14:57):
just going to the situation youWhat I see men do and bless up
beautiful brothers in yourformula driven minds is that
they will then want to explainwhy what the woman is doing is
not actually empowering them tobe a man. Okay? When you do that
you're controlling me and likefor me to be in my masculine, I
need to be respected. So whenyou do that, you're actually

(15:17):
disrespecting me.
Like,you're so close. And this is the
the intellectual part of, ofthis work that we can get caught
in. And I see a lot of men getcaught in when they go and do
the mindset work, or they readthe books and listen to listen
to the podcasts. But they'venever actually had the chance to

(15:38):
sort of filter it down intotheir body, which is
predominantly the work that I dowith men is like, can you
actually get out of the headinto your body? And then even
beyond that, can you trustsomething greater than yourself?
But essentially, in that moment,when you start explaining it to
her what she's done,you're trying to help her you're
almost like trying to coach heror show her how to not trigger

(15:58):
you or not disrespect you.
You want to command respect.
So you like to add commands thatyou need to tie you up today?
You really gonna you want tocry. Yeah.

(16:22):
Because you haven't had sex likefour days? No, it's been more
like six.
We've had a few false starts thelast couple of nights. It just
hasn't happened. So I think wethink we needed this. The
podcast, podcast always bringsus Yeah. Together. Well, not
always. But sometimes.

(16:44):
But what I what I want to sayyes, timing. Yeah, I will tell
ya, I will tell you up straightafter
all of my other live Shabbat,and you will love Shabbat
becausejust back to that point, like
when you try to intellectualizeand share a formula rather than
practice. You're trying to helpher understand how to respect

(17:08):
you rather than commanding itwith your embodied transmission
of the masculine energy. Hey, mylove. I know I could get you I
know you could go left. Andmaybe that's the way that you
go. But I'm going right. Andwe're gonna get there on time, I
promise.
Sit down, put on your favoritesong. We've got another 10

(17:29):
minutes to get there.
Yeah, I love that. And I thinkthis is really, this takes this
kind of like play and creativityand making art out of moments
like this. It is. It's risky.
Because if you're bringing playinto that moment, like if you
were to sometimes you'll turn toMe in moments like that, or

(17:51):
like, you kind of play intolike, hey, you know, like, I'm
the man. And that, you know, youcan do that to me, some women
like if I can triggered by that,and I can't tell you I can you
know, and I, I would like to dothat. It's like I'm like, Yeah,
you can get upset, okay? Throwtantrum. And I'm still going

(18:12):
right? Yeah, but if we do thiswithin this, like the lights of
Happy Days, I'm in control mylove.
I'm in control.
And you might have a woman thatis very controlling or she's
very independent based on herupbringing of needing to feel
safe, because create safety forherself and that's okay, like

(18:33):
this is this is the healingpart. But if she does throw a
tantrum when she gets a littlebit hate, it's like, it's okay,
my love. We're gonna get there.
I promise. It's not all sorry.
Now let's let's go left. No,yes, it's okay. You can.
You can get frustrated and youcan like, show me the map. You
can tell me about all the turnsI could take to get to the place
and we're still going right?

(18:54):
Yeah, and that's not for me.
That's not stubbornness. That'slike a holding. That's a holding
that's like and it's like, Ijust don't understand why you
couldn't go left. I will neverwas going left. That was never
an option.
It was never there's not areality where I was ever turning
left. So we're going right.
I also going to like almostspeak to the texture that I have

(19:16):
that I'm bringing when I'msharing these as I'm slow right?
I'm like really intentional witheach of my words. There's no arm
as if buts or maybes is a verydirect delivery of what I'm
saying.
And in that, you hold the deeperstate of consciousness. So when

(19:40):
we're saying holding, you're notnecessarily holding your woman
or taking responsibility for heremotions. You're holding a
deeper state of consciousnessthat allows her to have her
experience and then calibrate tothis depth that you're holding.
And that comes through yourbreath through your words.
through your nervous system, andthrough just trusting yourself.

(20:04):
And knowing that there is no waythat you need to get to, like
removing that outcome, releasingthe urgency, and allowing
whatever needs to take place.
take place.
Yeah.
That's something I just want tocircle back to a little bit is,
when I said before, it's like,sometimes you'll like play into
like, I'm the man, like, youknow, that command respect. And,

(20:29):
for me, I just want to bring thenuance here, into this around
like, I believe women are veryfucking capable of extraordinary
things. Oh, yeah, I don'tbelieve women need a man to do
things. I believe if you weren'there in my life, I would be very
fucking capable of doing all Iknow, when you're away when you
like, I'm very fucking capable,very fucking capable woman. And

(20:54):
I know that it cansimultaneously play into being a
damsel in distress and times,and can simultaneously play into
the role of just like, restinginto being led. Like, I really
don't say it's so fucking blackand white. I think people take
this in such a black and whiteway. And if this isn't the

(21:15):
dynamic that you want to playinto in your relationship,
that's fine. We're not sayingthis is the you need to,
you know, play into thesetraditional roles and that,
but I would probably becomfortable saying that no, but
we're not saying you have to youdon't have to, but I'll be
saying that if you want a goodrelationship, it's probably a
good idea.

(21:37):
I'm not saying that guy.
But I think I think it's sopainful. Like there's such a
magic in again, this is mainlyI'm speaking to the woman who
feels like if she was to let goof control, it means something
about her capacity. And it meanssomething about her. Her

(21:58):
independence and it meanssomething about her, like, No, I
loveplaying the role like being like
help me like, I don't know howto do this. Like, I need a man
to do this for me or I loveplaying into that in our
relationship. And I don't makeit mean that I'm a helpless
woman that doesn't know what thefuck she's doing and can't do

(22:18):
don't do things. I'm a veryfucking powerful woman in the
world. I know how to make itdone I have a very successful
business I I know my power inthat I don't doubt that and that
almost means that almost makesit more possible to go in and
play these roles and and to justenjoy that enjoy that
experience.

(22:39):
So I just wanted toI don't know I think I was I was
watching a reel this morningwhere a woman was talking about
traditional roles and likehaving a man open a door for you
and then we'll all thesecomments kind of being like go
back to the 1950s and I was justlike, Fuck all right, get every
single I love a man opening adoor for me. I love that kind of

(23:00):
chivalrous, kind of chivalrous,chivalrous, chivalrous behavior.
And if were like can we not Canwe stop making that mean that a
woman isn't capable Can we stopmaking that mean that hey look,
I'm I'm capable of all of thesedifferent things so you're not
allowed to open the door for melike can we enjoy both the right

(23:21):
to vote the right to have a jobthe right to earn money all of
these fucking things and theright to have a man open a
fucking door for us and enjoythat feeling. You can take it up
you can take it as personally asyou fucking won and I will
continue to open a door for awoman till the day I fucking
die. You can you can fuck offwhoever saying that shit like I
will continue to help old ladiesacross the fucking street I will

(23:42):
carry things that are heavy. Iwill always always embrace that
part of me and I will never everforce it upon the world in a way
that doesn't allow your fuckingrights to do what you need to do
to feel a sense of impact andmeaning in the world. And this
is the thing that Iespecially women and a lot of
guys who are working alongsidetheir woman maybe you guys are

(24:03):
both building businesses, maybeyou're growing together
that's awesome. That's great.
Continue walk the path, youknow, watch each other rise in
those respective fields. Butwhen you come back together like
practice relating don't comeback and like try to fucking run
a third business come back andtry and fucking bring up the

(24:23):
spreadsheet or get out thefucking To Do List come back and
like be lovers. Love doesn'thave the
the structure that a businessdoes. Love doesn't hold this
identity of like I need to doeverything for myself.
I think this is super important.
And I I love we've just done aweek to ignite your intimacy

(24:47):
around the art of loving a womanthe art of loving a man and one
of the things is like, let himbe fucking useful. Yeah, I can
sendlike that brings meaning to my
life.
If that brings meaning to aman's life, like,
I don't know, like, there's afunny story I remember.

(25:08):
I wasn't the most embodiedmasculine.
Through my teens, I was veryfeminine. But I do remember one
time where we were walkingalong. And
one of my I was with one of myfriends and one of the girls
that we were walking along with,we're in a group and she got
really cold, and I had a hoodieon. And I took it off, and I
handed it to her. And she waslike, Oh, thank you.

(25:31):
I ended up losing that hoodie,which I'm still emotionally
charged about. But that'sanother you lost the hoodie. I
don't know that. I can'tremember what happened. But
anyway, so never help a woman.
But it always backfires. In themoment, I was like, Oh, I just
took it off and handed it to herwithout thinking. And I was
like, Oh, that's a part of me,that's like, oh, I want to
ensure that you feel safe. And Iremember my friend saying to me,

(25:52):
andwas like, if I had a hoodie, I
would have given it to a first.
Like, there is a part of us menthat want to serve that want to
lay down our jackets, so thewoman doesn't have to step into
the puddle. Like there's a partof us that wants to give in that
way. And at any point, we makethat wrong, or any point we push
that away and don't embrace thatwe're really denying a man the

(26:13):
opportunity to feel loved.
That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazyin this modern world, but this
that's the truth. We're denyinghim the opportunity to
experience love through gettingto be of service to the
relationship service to thefeminine. Amen. I was about to
go on a massive rant that wasnot going on. Yep, stop. I think
that people would want your app.
Well, that sounds like that's,that's why the world's kind of

(26:34):
fucked because we're denying themen the opportunity to serve the
feminine therefore they findmanipulative and distorted ways
to control it and overpower it.
That's why we drill fuckingholes in the earth. That's why
we deforest because we don'trespect the feminine. And we're
being told that respecting thefeminine in the natural way that
we want who is wrong as men. Andthis amplifies when we zoom

(26:55):
right out tofucking Elon wanting to you
know, set up a base on Marsliterally escaped the world. And
the way that we're usingplastics, the way that we're
doing this, this is all a directCarlton, I believe it's a direct
correlation between our, ourdenying a man's deepest desire
to experience love through beingof service to the feminine. Yep.
And this is what I've learnedthrough all of my spiritual

(27:18):
practices. And this is why Ibelieve like, men should have a
spiritual practices because itteaches you to have reverence
for the Great Mother PachamamaMother Earth. And in that when
you deepen your relationship ofrespect to the Divine Mother,
the true like a truerepresentation of the feminine,
that trickles down into yourentire life, with your woman,
with other women, with yourmother, with your grandmother's

(27:39):
with, with anything that holdsthe feminine pole, you have, you
have a deep desire to serve itand experience the respect that
comes from serving it, whichcreates harmony, which creates
intimacy, and it's kind of whatwe're all here to experience in
this lifetime. Oh, oh.

(28:01):
Oh, I thinkI think there's and I think this
really beautifully segues intoone of the conversations we
wanted to have today around thenice guy, because I think when
you said the world isn't reallyletting a man be of service to
a woman in the way he wants to.
And I think that I think that's,you know, there's a lot of

(28:24):
nuance there. And there's a lotof things that because there is
a lot of distortion and a lot ofabuse and a lot of things then
you know, in terms of the waythe masculine has treated the
feminine.
But I think that also is whythere is such a culture of the
nice guy in our society becauseit's there is a lot of men
feeling it's unsafe to bringthis like I call it the beast.

(28:49):
Yeah, it's unsafe to bring likethe beast within me, which I
would say and you know, Iprobably think you would say
this. This is like an anintegral important part of a
man. woman like her Shaktienergy, her sexuality, her
aliveness, like, that's a man'sin a beast. And when we deny the

(29:09):
man he's based when we live in aculture, which basically says,
that's unsafe, cage it up, pushit down.
That one that creates nice guys,which are then
men that don't really havebackbones don't stand for
anything. They they might thinkthey're safe, but they're
actually not creating safety forthe women. They're with their

(29:32):
families, their communities, theworld, like our world and our
women and you know, ourchildren, they need men with
motherfucking backbones. Theyneed men that stand for
something they need men thatthat know their beast, and
connect with their beast, butaren't controlled by it.

(29:53):
Our wholethis is important. This is a
really important conversationbecause
Like I said, like, the modernworld does push against that.
But that's part of the test thatwe as men must rise to and why
the appropriateness ofinitiation work
is coming online again, for menlike it's really starting to

(30:15):
rise up and like men want to goout into nature and be
challenged, and to be cold intothe depths of their beast and
then learn how to be celebratedin that so they can then
bring it in a healthy way to thecommunity and become sturdy,
become sturdy, in a way thatallows women to really relax
into that sturdiness.

(30:37):
That word is so stuck. I lovethe word sturdy, sturdy,
sturdy, everyone I likecompliment me like God, you're
you are incredibly sturdy,Jacob, you are steady people
actually counting on yourphysical appearance and you have
your legs areinsane. You have very sturdy,
muscular legs. I've never beenpushed over, ever. I've never

(30:59):
tripped over I've never actuallysat down or lay down I've always
stood upthat is someone you say that a
lot when people come on and yourlegs pushed over.
But stir and then I think sturdyis also this like energetic
quality of I use the wordunwavering a lot. But there's

(31:21):
this like, yeah, this sturdinessto a man like he's not, he's not
going to be pushed over at thesign of like,
you know whether it's tensionwith his woman, he's not going
to fold. And that doesn't meanagain. He's stubborn, but he's
like, he holds his own. And he'snot going to just be like, Oh,
whatever you want. So there'ssturdiness with his woman

(31:43):
there's sturdiness with life.
Like, if something if somethingis pushing against what he
values. He's gonna fucking standup for it. Oh, yeah, we saw this
a lot during COVID. And like,yeah, you know, we we saw the
study, man. Yeah.
Fuck, it was good. It was sogood that that to me was like

(32:04):
this collective medicine journeyof like, who's gonna actually
stand and like not chooseoutside of themselves? Not
choose outside of themselves.
And yeah, there was a lot ofguys who went through. And I'm
not saying that there was aright or wrong decision,
whatever decision you made, butit definitely would have some
both sides would have reflectedback like your your values and
whether or not you're going toattune and abide by your values.

(32:25):
Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was abig, big journey for everyone.
And I think I just want todeepen into this a little more
that and we can think of likeCOVID or we can think of, you
know, any, any other thing wherethere's like, maybe it's a man
holding a really strong opiniononline, like, like a value like,

(32:48):
or a man speaking up forsomething that no one really
else has. has the guts or thecourage to speak up against, and
that's so sexy.
I think as women, we lovefeeling that a man is willing to
take a risk or willing to andnot be reckless but willing to

(33:12):
stand up for something even inthe face of criticism, even in
the face ofwhatever it might be losing
something. But standing for hislike, I find that unbelievably
attractive. Yeah, you never wantto lose like, it doesn't matter
if you lose friends, but justdon't lose your fucking self.
Yeah, if you lose the validationor the acceptance of the crowd,

(33:34):
never fucking lose yourself.
Yeah, this is the like the pathof like, sovereignty.
Sovereignty is like deep innerfreedom. It's not about exiting
the matrix. It's not about like,becoming financially independent
sovereignty is like a state ofbeing where you know that you
cannot be fucked withthe relationship that you have
with your own death. It's like Iwould rather die than abandoned
what I know to be true. And thisis kind of fucked up. But that's

(33:58):
it, like, would you ratherlike as for me, like when I look
at my lineage, like, Would Irather my father
bend to the knee of a ruler thathe does not agree to the values
of and make it to live a life along life with him by my side,
living out of integrity? orwould I rather him stand up to

(34:20):
that ruler and have his headfucking taken off? And then I
get to avenge his death inservice to the value set that is
of the O'Neill clan like that,to me creates the hero's journey
that to me creates meaning, andthen is like, does he actually
die? Or does he become eternalin that standing of his values?
And this is what men are lookingfor. They're looking for this

(34:41):
sense sense of their own eternalnature. And that only comes from
being okay with your own fuckingdeath, being okay that your
values are more important thananything outside of them.
And this is like this is whatturns this is really what turns
women on. Like when a man canstand in that
It's not that you have to go andface off with a ruler and be

(35:02):
decapitated just to prove thatyou are going to hold your
values. No. It's fun to talk inthat and get get grandiose grand
with it. But like, can youactually stand your values and
like a great way to bring thisinto something a little more
grounded and not so fantastical?
I always get to like, oh, yeah,the castle, the dragon. The big
thing is, I want to bringsomething I've got a little like

(35:23):
analogy here on exam. Is itabout clothing? No. So for me,
it's like if I put a T shirt on,and we're going out and make
questions, do that shirt thatyou could wear the white one
instead, there's no shockingreality, where I will be putting
on a white shirt. I am wearingthe shirt that I put on because
it's the shirt that I want towear. I will never, I will

(35:44):
never, ever let someone elsetell me what shirt to wear. And
I've ever like I don't mindagain, even like the other day
when we were filming somethingfor Ignite your maintenance.
I've got the shirt on right now.
And I don't reallyI feel most myself in a loose
fitting button up shirt with twopockets on the front. And I love

(36:08):
that for you.
But you're wearing the shirt.
And I said and I did do it in abit of a like passive
aggressive. I was like, Are yougoing to change before we start?
I did. You have been wearingthat all day. washed it? Yeah.
And you're like, No, I'm wearingthis. I was like, Oh,
you're like doing like it? I waslike, No, you're like, I'm

(36:30):
wearing it.
But I love like, even when Iwhen I that always makes me
reflect on like, why do I needyou to wear the other shirt? Oh,
I want it to look a certain way.
That's why I fucking love youbecause you don't give a fuck
about how people perceive you.
And that just gets to get it'sreally illuminating for me in
those moments, I Don't devaluean environment that I'm stepping

(36:53):
into either so I don't districtI don't rock up to a wedding
wearing thongs in a singletright, I don't I don't devalue
the environment that I'mstepping into. If it's a
wedding, I dress accordingly. Ifwe're going out to dinner, I
don't fucking wear bodies. And,you know, a t shirt I wear I
wear something that I I know isa direct reflection of the value

(37:13):
of the environment that I'mstepping into. So I'm not, I'm
not being a prick or being beinglazy by any means. You're just
owning your own I my style,which is really like owning my
essence. So I'm not saying goand be a prick and just rock up
to a wedding in a pair of footyshorts and thongs. No dress and
respect to the value of theenvironment that you are
choosing to engage with 100% Butat any point, your woman wants

(37:38):
to dress you a certain way. Bro,do net like I invite you to to
take on board what she's sayingbut do not bend to her will
because yeah, you're not anaction figure you're not a
little boy like own your style.
Go and learn how to fucking putit you know where your clothes
properly where they're going,like explore your style.
Sometimes you'll get it rightsometimes you'll get it wrong.

(37:59):
But that's important. And I'mnot saying you have to spend
1000s of dollars buying all thebest clothes like find out what
sits well with your being whereit Yes.
I was I'm really into love isblind right now. So love is
blind right now for those of youthat follow me on Instagram, you
would have seen me doing somelove is blind teaching and

(38:19):
examples. And one of them wasand it was like one of my
favorite fucking moments fromthe season. So I was watching
season five.
And Lydia, this woman, they wereon holidays, and she was like,
oh, please wear the black.
Please wear the black boardshorts. I want us to match I
want to match and he was like,No, I'm not gonna wear them. I'm
gonna wear the other ones. Andshe was testing him. She was

(38:40):
like, but I want you to wear theblack ones.
And he put the other ones on andhe just bent his heatstroke. And
he just bent down Keystone lawand she was going please,
please, please. And he just bentdown look her in the eyes kiss
her on the lips and goes nowalked away. And it was just the

(39:01):
best ever because even in theface of her being like I want to
imagine I don't like those andthat doesn't go and and he just
goes no, I mean just thisreally. And it's kind of circles
back to when we're talking aboutthe cut like the left and right
and like how you can bring itwas really playful. Like he
wasn't like fuck off. Stoptrying to control me. He was

(39:22):
just and he wasn't even likethat in his energy. He was you
can't control me. That's thatwas he wasn't like don't stop
trying. He just he with hisenergy. And he's transmission it
was. I'm a man that's not you'renot able to control. You'll
understand that soon enough. Andyou do that with me too. It's

(39:42):
like it's not like fuck off.
That's so annoying. Uh, it's,no, I'm not going to change.
Let's start recording.
And like this is how youactually grow and evolve the
relationship into something thathas the fiery passion that
you're looking for without theThe walls

(40:04):
and this this is like that's aperfectly like No, it's not
about making your partner wrongfor wanting to change you. It's
about like holding and allowingher to rub up against that
you're no like let let the wavescrash against the shore off.
Like let nature do what naturedoes. This is why spending time
in the natural world will attuneyour body to this dynamic Yeah.

(40:28):
I always say when I take men outinto nature I'm like you're you
think that that's the practicesthat we do that are going to
change you it's actually beingout here and having a true
device true representation ofwho you are reflected back to
you by the trees the water theearth and the sky.
And that I love that example.
No. Let's go to the let's go tothe pool. Come on. Let's go and

(40:49):
have lunch.
And yeah, I loved I love it.
He's saying like stop. Yeah,like just let the waves crash
off against the shore. And it'slike yeah, like over time.
Like your woman will come toappreciate your No Yeah, even in
my like the other day when Isaid that and you said no,

(41:11):
immediately I laughed about it.
And I was like, Oh, that was abit slavery was I want to do to
Jade I just didn't come out andsay it we were laughing about it
and like and again I'd let go oflike honored you know, and I was
like that's the shirt he's gonnawear I'm not gonna throw a
tantrum. It's like I actuallyfucking love that you're in that
shirt because it's you and like,yeah, you believe in that.

(41:36):
And this is like the beauty of arelationship your partner is
always going to want you to fitinto a certain mold based on
what they have learned. Yesgrowing up what they have
learned from their theirexposure to life. Or what the
thing on InstagramI will never ever dress the way
that you want me to like that'sthe truth like there's a part of
you that wants me to dress acertain way based on what you

(41:56):
think you wanta token to me Yeah, and there's
so many things you were that Ifucking love Yeah, I totally but
I also think that like there wasthere is a version in your head
that you would want me to dresslike that when that if I did.
You actually wouldn't enjoyanyway.

(42:19):
I think back in the day Ithought I wanted you to wear
like boat shoes and I thought Ithought that was like an active
that vibe. No, I'm not aboutthat at all. Now I love like, or
I love I love your style. Yeah,I love your style. Of course,
sometimes you just pick upthings from the shop that I'm
like.
I don't love that. Yeah, theCarhartt pants he wrote
recently. Yes. All the Carharttstuff. All of that I'm all

(42:43):
about. Yeah, I find itincredibly sexy. Yeah. I love
that.
And there's parts of me thatwants to I would love to try and
control or change you know, it'sthe perfect time there is not
one part of me that you wouldwant to change is no, no, no,

(43:03):
no, no, you do whatever youwant. I'll say yes to
everything.
That this is the like I thinkthis is what creates the tension
creates the friction thatcreates the fire that keeps the
relationship warm and fuckingbeautifully passionate. And I
think to make light of thosethings when we're like when
these things are in the shadowswhen we're when we're not

(43:27):
actually like owning the factthat there's this part of us
that wants to change certainthings about our partner that
means they are in the shadowsand that's when these these
things this desire to control orchange comes out in manipulative
slimy ways. Like through passiveaggressiveness. Yes. Yeah.
manipulation, all of thesedifferent things. Where when we

(43:49):
can actually just aren't andthis is so much a part of the
work I do with women like ownthere's a controlling bitch
within you own there's a part ofyou that wants to wants to and
does sometimes manipulate yourman, like own all of those
parts. And then that you canbring a lightness to them.
Because there's not a shamearound them like the other day
when I told you to change theshirt, and then it was like a

(44:09):
fuck, that was slimy as shit.
Oh, I'm sorry, where the fuckingshot like it was we could joke
about it immediately. Yeah, so Ijust I truly believe there's no
woman and then anyone thatdoesn't have like the shadowy
things that want to play out inrelationships. So my invitation
to you is like, own thesethings, trying to pretend you're
like, like I often say stoptrying to pretend as women

(44:31):
you're not high maintenance. Soyou don't want things so you're
not trying to control your man.
Like just own that. Yeah,especially the controlling
piece. That's been so healingfor me like, oh, yeah, if I do
tell you like go oh, why are yougoing right? You should have
been left. It's like, oh, God,I'm sorry. I just, I'm gonna
relax into the car. It's just apart of me that thinks I need

(44:51):
control to feel safe. I'm sorry.
Can you put your hand on me? Andcan you tell me that I'm gonna
let it control the situation?
Once again, like hold that depthof consciousness.
Uh yeah, and bring that.
I just want to like go circleback. The whole point of this
conversation was to talk aboutthe nice guy. And I feel like
we've like, done that. Butthere's a few things that we
that I'd like to bring in aslike, as men. If you are wanting

(45:15):
to start to bring this in, youdon't want to swing from being
the nice guy to being theasshole. Yeah. So there's no
need to go from swinging thependulum and overcorrect. So,
for instance, like I was, Isaid, yes to everything.
Originally, in our relationship,I was always saying, Yes, I was
always doing whatever youwanted, I was following you
wherever you wanted to go, doingall the things that you wanted

(45:35):
to do, because I thought thatwas what you wanted to feel
loved. And initially, it kind ofworked. It was like, cool, this
works. This, this system works.
We're not fighting.
You're getting what you want.
I'm feeling like I'm gettingwhat I want, I feel like I'm
being useful. This is great.
However, resentment started tobuild, there was a feeling of

(45:57):
like, ah, if I keep doing this,then she's gonna keep doing
there was a there was a verymuch a dynamic of like, if I
keep on doing all the things sheneeds me to do, then she's going
to keep on giving me access toher policy. Keep on like being
she's going to be the, you know,the woman that I that I want,
eventually, she's going to dothe things that I want her to
do, because I keep doing thethings that she wants to do. But
I'm not going to tell her what Iwant to do. I'm just gonna like,

(46:17):
she'll just eventually realizethis, you know, she'll just come
to come to the table. And itwasn't until I actually realized
I was like, fuck, I'm notspeaking my desires. And you
triggered that in in me bysaying, I can't feel you. I
can't feel do you have in fact,you even have an opinion on
anything, Jacob? Like, youcannot tell me what your

(46:39):
thoughts are what you believeabout this? Are you just going
to agree with what I say? Areyou just going to say what you
think I want to say? So we cango back to being neutral? Yeah,
I think I want to hear Yeah. Andthat to me is that the nice cars
inability to be with discomfort,the NASCAR's inability to own
his desires to own his beast.
And this like circling back atthis, I'm sort of reiterating on

(47:01):
some of the stuff like this isbecause a man's worth is
determined by other people. Hisvalue is determined by other
people. And for me, I believedthat I could only ever be loved
when I was doing what otherpeople wanted me to do. When I
was giving to other people inthe way that they wanted it. And
I was never actually, I wouldalways put myself last. And this

(47:25):
is the shadow of the nice guy islike, he's the he's the hero
that will take the shirt off hisback and give, but beneath that
giving, there's an expectationthat he'll get something back.
That's the sloppiness of thenice guy. It is manipulative.
It's manipulative. As far aslike if I do these three

(47:46):
chivalrous things, then I'mgonna get to have sex with her.
If I do, if I'm if I'm the guythat you know, is really kind
and does the things that are allthe other guys don't. She's
going to choose me.
And it's not that we're sayingyou can't open the door and do
all those chivalrous things. Butit's like doing that, from a
very conscious doing doing thatwithout without need without

(48:09):
conditions. And that can onlyhappen when you're solid in
yourself, right? The nice guy islike, Okay, I've got to push
down these parts of myself, sothat I can be that so that she
feels safe, and I can get what Iwant. We do that because you're
a fucking man. Full stop. You dothat? Because that's what a man
does. That's his sacred duty.
You don't get a fucking lolly.

(48:31):
Because you do that you don'tget a sweet treat because you
held the door open or becauseyou listen to her feelings. No,
fuck that. You do that becauseyou're a man. Full fucking stop.
Then you go and you do yourwork. You you train in the way
that you want to you attend, youtend to your garden, you do your
practices, you go out and youfind the the path of initiation

(48:52):
that is next for you. And thenyou come home and you be a
fucking man.
And I'm saying this as a manthat is developing himself still
in this role. I am not by anymeans perfect. And but I am
willing. So when I speak thiswhoever's listening, whether
it's a woman, it's like, Fuck, Iwant a man like that. Or if it's
a man like fuck, Jacob, fuck Ido I need to be perfect. No, no,

(49:14):
you need to be willing.
You need to be willing to makethis decision that hey, I'm a
fucking man and I'm going toembrace it. And I'm going to see
this as a sacred duty, I'm goingto do my best to continually
expand my capacity to be withwhat is whilst also moving
towards a greater vision thatincludes something for myself,
to feel truly free. Somethingfrom my relationships, so I can

(49:35):
experience deep intimacy, andsomething from my legacy. So I
can actually bring meaning tothe work that I do in this
world.
And all of those three things,self relationships, and legacy.
They're all built on yourvalues. What is your foundation
that you've built? Is it alignedwith the values that you believe
in and that you hold withinyourself? Or is it born of I

(49:55):
need?
It's what she wants. It's whatthe world wants.
For for me, it's what I shouldbe doing.
That's a sandy very unsafe firmfoundation. Yeah.
I'm gonna miss hearing withinall of this it's like the the
bomb for the nice guy Oh, thesalvia the valve the boss

(50:17):
soothing balm for the nice guyis like doing the inner work
it's like his own personalpractice it's it's him, you know
so much of the initiatesinitiatory rite of passage work
Yep, of letting go of this ideathat
it's really it's, it's reallylike this parallel to the work I

(50:39):
do with women, which is lettinggo of this conditioning that a
woman has to stick in a littlebox and contort herself, to be
desired and to be loved and tobe a good woman. And it's the
same for many of the nice guys,it's like, I have been
conditioned to play this niceguy and not not have a strong
opinion and not because I mighthurt a woman or I might, you

(51:00):
know, that's not a safe man.
Whereit's actually the opposite. Like
we said before, a man that can'tstand for something. I mean,
that doesn't have access to hisinner beast. That's, that's not
a safe man.
Not at all. It's a man that canbe controlled.
Information can be controlled byexternal factors, then he is not

(51:23):
a safe man. Because whensomething comes to take what you
you love, you won't have the youwon't have the fight in you, you
won't have the ability to standto say no.
And this is not about going outand being violent. This is about
like when you know and this isif anyone ever gets the chance
to go and listen to Leon casa,tell a story. Please do. Or

(51:44):
anyone like gets to go andlisten to a mythopoetic man
speak. Please do. remember himsaying in the live telling of
iron Johnny's like, anythingworth its salt, anything that
you that you love. One day,you'll have to fight for
anything you love one day,you're gonna have to fight for
it. Because that's just thenature of the beast. That's just
the nature of man, the one dayyou're gonna have to fight for

(52:05):
it. And if you haven't beenpracticing how to fucking fight,
when the fight comes, you're notgoing to have the capacity to
fight for what you love.
And this is the path of theopenhearted warrior. This is
that, you know, I always say thefierce warrior wears no armor,
no fucking law, I just think oflike the scene in Troy, and the

(52:29):
two armies as you're facingacross from each other. And
to save all of the men's lives,all of the Warriors is the two
kings. So you pick your fiercestwarrior, and bring him out and
we'll let them fight on behalfof the armies. And whoever wins,
whichever war, fiercest warriorwins, then the army will join

(52:51):
his his side, and the king willrenounce his, his throne to the
other king. And they can'tactually find Achilles because
he's still asleep. He's stillhe's still asleep. It always,
like wears Achilles andAchilles. Like, he shows up and
he he's not even interested infighting. That's the best bit

(53:11):
he's not he's not he's not fazedby the battle. He's like, you
know, I show up, and I'll fightwhen I'm ready. And then when
he's called, he will answer thecall right? To fight. And it's
so funny that his opponent ishuge and massive and carries
this big sword and this massivespear. And
it's so great. Achilles startsrunning towards him. And he

(53:33):
starts by skipping it almostlooks like a fucking dance. And
he runs out to meet this guy,and this guy starts throwing
spears at him. And the firstspear hits security shield, he
throws it to the ground. Andthen he keeps running. And then
the second spear flies at himand right at the last second, he
dodges it. And it's as if he'smoving. It's not even as if he's
fighting. It's as if he'sdancing. And he runs towards he
runs at a pace that is feverish,with fierce belief in who he is.

(53:58):
And he runs towards thismountain of a man that any other
man would be terrified to face.
And as he runs, he runs and heleaps towards him. And he leaps
and he dodges a swing of thisguy's sword jumps up, grabs you
on the shoulder and just stubshis sword into the neck of this
guy, and then pulls it out, sortof runs, skids to a stop and
like, turns around and looks athim and just watches this man

(54:20):
like turn around.
Take like a moment to blink andthen just fall and die.
And I'm like, That's the fuckingenergies. That's what I'm here
for. I'm here to cultivate thatkind of belief in myself. I'm
not gonna have to, like fightsomeone to the death for it. But

(54:41):
I'm gonna go out and initiatemyself. So I have the capacity
for that. I'm gonna go and trainjujitsu for the next 10 years
and become a black belt. And I'mgonna do that I'm gonna go out
and do the vision quests everyyear. I'm gonna go and do the
ceremonies that initiate mespiritually, physically and
emotionally into something thatis unfuck winnable.
And these days like, it mightnot ever be physical combat, no,

(55:05):
this is more building up theenergetic or nervous system
capacity. Yes, energeticcapacity to face any threats.
And this can be that I was goingto bring this example in before
and I can't remember exactlywhere I think it was on, you're
talking about being decapitatedand things like that. Yeah.

(55:26):
But like the threat might be asa man, like, you have a
controlling mother, and yourmother is trying to kind of
like, weave her way into yourfamily. Maybe you have kids, and
it's just like, your wife'suncomfortable with that, or
like, she wants you to kind ofclaim that hey, like, I'm, I'm
the woman of this house. I don'tneed your mother, like, you

(55:48):
know, micromanaging everythingbeing an opinion on everything.
Yes. And, you know, this is sucha common thing. We've seen this
multiple, multiple times.
This threat there is yourmother. Yes, like and this
doesn't mean you can't love yourmother. But the battle, or the
thing to stand up for is tostand to stand up in that

(56:08):
moment. And to have enough of aspine to to set the boundaries
for your family and to protectyour family and to protect your
woman. Right. So often, it'slike, no, but that would hurt
her feelings. And I don't know.
It's okay. She means well, we'reit's like, if you're a woman is
saying this is making meuncomfortable. And I would
prefer to have boundaries in thehome or whatever it might be

(56:29):
like, your job is to be a voicefor that and to advocate for
your family. And that's the,that's the modern day kind of
moments that we're talking aboutinstead of where, where a woman
is not turned on or doesn'ttrust the nice guy. In those
moments, the nice guy is notgoing to have a conversation
with his mother, the nice guy isgoing to avoid conflict at all

(56:50):
costs. And he's going to have awoman that doesn't trust him and
feels unsafe or feel superresentful. And that creates more
tension in the home and betweenrelationships. Like that's a
messiest situation than a manthat just goes, I'm gonna have
the conversation, even if it'suncomfortable. I'm gonna fucking
Yeah, protect my family. That issuch my fan that is such a

(57:14):
fucking boss move for a man todo is like, Hey, listen, you're
my family. Now. You are mypriority.
I remember. And this was, um,this is a beautiful moment.
And it was really funny. Like,how emotional this makes me but
it's beautiful. It's like, Iremember when I was going

(57:34):
through a really tough time. Andthis is gonna be great. I'm a
Valentine. This makes sense.
Well, I went home last weekend.
You ready for me to share? Youwant this? You ready for me to
open my heart to you. I rememberwhen I was like, really going
through like the wrestle of likereally wanting to step the fuck
up in our relationship andreally wanting to like claim my

(57:57):
place as a, as a business owneras a men's coach, and I want to
have a real fucking goal withthis. And I remember,
like sharing that with my dad.
And I was like, I just want to,like, I want to marry Meg, I
want like, ask me to marry mesoon. I'm like, I really just, I
really just want to, I reallyjust want to do well, I want to
I want to I want to make my markon the world. And I remember him
just being like, well, you justhave to make that decision,
right? Because I can't make itfor you. And in that moment, I

(58:19):
was looking for him to like,Mother me and he wouldn't. And
he just said, Listen, I can'tmake that decision for you. You
have to make it if you want tomarry Marissa, you got to go and
do your work, go and do yourwork. I'm interesting. Like, oh,
thank you. Like he gave mepermission. In a way that didn't
stop me from going after what Iwanted. And I remember him

(58:42):
saying, Listen, I can't youknow, you don't live here
anymore. I'm not. I don't, Idon't. You don't belong to me.
He said, I'm I'm here. Yourmom's might your mum's my
priority. Now I'm here to dostuff with her look after this
house. If you want to come backand spend some time. You know,
door's always open, but that'sthe decision that you have to
make. And I remember breakingdown and crying and feeling

(59:05):
really emotional. And I waslike, fuck, I do want this. I do
want my own family. I do want tobe the man of the house. I do
want what you've got to adegree. I want my own family. I
want my own place of residencewhere I tend to the yard and fix
things and change the oil in thecars in the garage. I want this
I want this and I went to amen's retreat. Men's well being

(59:29):
and we got to actually sit withour own death with perverse Did
you you haven't met pravasi Yethe's a he's a dF D man he and I
had the beautiful, beautifulthree hour conversation one
night, but in that I got to drawwhat what what I wanted for my
life. And I drew a river. I drewtents. I drew a fire and I drew

(59:50):
trees and I drew this big longtable. And
what I did was I just drew whatwhat
What I had as a kid, like I drewwhat I was gifted as a child is
freedom, this free range life.
And it was really funny that thetable, my dad built it with his
maiden daymo out at the river,like we had this campground that

(01:00:12):
we'd go to every year. And theybuilt a table. And it would just
stay there. And every year, we'dcome back and we put our tents
up next to the river, and I gofishing, and we'd all cook on
the fire. And we'd all put like,prepare our food up on this
table. And yeah, what I waswanting was just this, what I
was wanting was what I received,what I was wanting to create for
my life was what I received. ButI had to choose it right, I had

(01:00:35):
to choose it for myself. Andit's funny, you know, the way
that there's symbols and the waythat my dad does life that
really has, like this texture ofmeaning without him having to
explain it. Like, I've got tochop it, he made chopping boards
from that table, because thattable, the property got sold, we
couldn't go camping thereanymore. So dad went down and

(01:00:57):
got that table, brought it home.
And he made chopping boards forall of us kids. So with a
chopping board that's made fromthat table. And I'm just like,
wow, like I carry that carrythat that desire with me. And
I'm creating that now and theway that we go camping and we go
to creeks and rivers, and we dothat and we have kids around us
andyeah, I just realized and then I
went I went home on the weekend,like we were sitting down in the

(01:01:20):
garage and dad and I wasstripping all of this copper
wire or the plastic off becausehe was taking it to to recycle
it and get paid good money forthis copper. And he just said
how she had the good night Ilike I was like it felt like
this full circle moment of like,Oh, like that conversation that
we had the so long ago. And likeme not knowing who I was. And

(01:01:44):
going on this journey. I wasable to like sit in the garage
and not feel wobbled. I feltlike I was like two men rather
than like this child like askinghis dad's permission for help.
until like, hey, like give melet me know it's gonna be okay,
let me know that I'm not fuckingmad for wanting what I want. And
yeah, we were stripping it. He'slike, you're good. You had good
I was like, I'm so fucking goodDad, look, I'm fucking happy to

(01:02:06):
be here. I got there's no placeI'd rather be like I am in a
good fucking place. And all ofthat. Like, I'm really excited
to share some footage from thegathering of men too, because I
got to invite my dad into seeingme as the powerful man that he
fucking gave me permission to beby not mothering me by not
pandering to my emotional chaosand saying go out and fucking

(01:02:30):
get it son. And I think so manymen are looking for that fucking
permission to go and fucking getit go and become a man. And many
men are still struggling becausethey're there in relationships
where they're trying to pleasetheir mother. And this is the
fucking tragedy of the nice guyis that he's living a life where
he's constantly trying to pleasehis mother and not upset his dad

(01:02:53):
by going by creating his ownkingdom.
Oh, fuck, that was intense forme just then. That was really
beautiful. Yeah, that wasbrought up a lot. It's crazy how
my life makes so much more sensewhen I speak about it. Like it's
so beautiful to self reflect andexternally process here on this

(01:03:13):
microphone with you my life. Butyeah, I truly believe that
everyone has like, and this is ii say this and I kind of want to
finish here because I've got it.
I've got to end I've gotsomething else to do. I've got
to go and female your fuckingman. live up to your
responsibility. I believe everyarea and this is me and my
little brother love MatthewMcConaughey. And we love his
book greenlights to greatstorytelling you for any men

(01:03:34):
that want to listen to it. It'sgreat on Audible, but I believe
every man has toeventually break up with his mum
and punch his dad in the face.
Do you mean literally and I meanthat metaphorically. I mean,
like you're not actually in arelationship with your mom, but
you kind of are and need to stopmaking out with your mom. And

(01:03:56):
you need to punch your dad inthe face. What is the what is
the punching it out in thefailure? You need to like fight
fight for the fight for yourright and it's not really
punching, but you need to likesay, Hey, listen, I'm a fucking
man now or you need to like havea conversation and be vulnerable
with him. Expose yourself to thepoint where he's like, go and
get what's yours? No, I didn'tpunch my dad in the face was
said hey, I want to I want to dothis and he was like, going fuck

(01:04:18):
and do it then. I don't need toand he's like, I'm not you and
he kind of gave me the blessingto go fuck up. And I've done
stuff that he hasn't agreedwith. I go and do things that he
doesn't that aren't his values,but they're mine. So now, like I
said, stripping out copper. Iwent home to go and sit on the
river and do mushrooms and be inmy spiritual practice. And I had
a man it was a fun time. We'relike, I'm doing the ceremony.

(01:04:40):
Like we don't need to domushrooms on the land. You just
need to strip copper wire in theshed. But it was it was like
we're doing we're peeling backthe layers right of this copper.
We're peeling back the plasticlayers to get to the value in
the middle.
And like as we did it, we kindof we found our flow where we've
had thisAll of this copper in the short
lengths and we, we justnaturally started to

(01:05:06):
synchronize, we had this flowthat just we didn't have to say
anything, we just started to doit. And then all of a sudden we
had this flow where we do withstrip this, this part of it, and
then we change that as he waschanging the, the blade on the
standing off, I would then goand pick up all of that, and I'd
put it in the bin. And then whenhe was in, then by the time that
we'd strip the the inner layeroff, and then we'd get the

(01:05:27):
valuable thing on the inside. Soeverything is just a peeling
back of the layers. Life isn'tmedicine, life is a medicine
journey. That is That is true. Ithink, you know, we've done a
lot of medicine work, and I lovemedicine work. And yet, and this
is same thing for selfdevelopment. It's like, yes, all
of that work is powerful. Butlife is the fucking ceremony.

(01:05:51):
Oh, like hiding in the medicineceremony and avoiding the
conversation you need to behaving with your father. You're
not actually doing the work andlife like relationships, how you
navigate relationships in yourlife. That's the ultimate
ceremony. Andmedicine work, often self
development or embodiment workcan give you the blueprint and

(01:06:13):
can support you toreally feel your capacity for
life. But then you've got to gofucking live it, you've got to
choose, you can't bypass yourway in and out of the
conversations that need to behard and the vulnerability that
needs to be shown. And that someof like,

(01:06:35):
like I think for both of us isgonna make me cry now.
Like, I love that quote aroundlike the quality of your life is
the quality of yourrelationships determined by the
quality. Yeah. The quality ofrelationships, determines the
quality of your life. AndI think I look around at our
life. And I'm like, Yeah, Ireally fucking believe that to
be true. And a huge part of thatis though, that we've done a lot

(01:06:56):
of the work on ourselves on ourown relationship. And we we are
ruthlessly devoted to leaninginto the conversations that need
to be have had around us andyeah, bringing our full selves
not shying away from you don'tseparate life, no ceremony. No,
we don't go all those peopledon't get it or they're not

(01:07:17):
spiritual. And I'm just gonna gowith my medicine community where
I feel safe. It's like to it'syes, this. There's truth in that
sometimes when you don't feelsafe in relationships, and you
can you know, set boundaries.
I've I've had practices of thatlately. Yeah.
But also, it's like, you know,Can Can you see life as the

(01:07:38):
ceremony? Can you say can youreally lean in and, and, and we
have Yeah, we bring we bringthat like, we own that, like our
families like we bring them in.
We don't hide that. We had like,like eating out at a wedding.
Like I created a spot show. Wehad a circular
design for our ceremony. I lovesummer like my family like my

(01:07:59):
mom like family friends. Ididn't even know half the stuff
that went on. But that was justthe best ceremony move into it.
I felt it. Yeah, it really feltand that's why I became a
celebrant to like, I became aregistered marriage celebrant
which is crazy because I waslike, I want to create
ceremonies like this for others.
So people feel the love that youshare. Yeah. And my aunt, she
was crying to me. She's like,all I saw was this little boy

(01:08:21):
playing with his Lego just hewas just and I'm like, what,
that's what you got from she'slike, oh, like she saw the part
of me that hadn't lost my sparkmy child. She saw that boy with
the golden ball. Still there. Ihadn't lost. Yeah, I hadn't lost
my or I'd reclaimed my, myinnocence in my play and my love
and my spirit. Like myconnection to spirit. I wasn't

(01:08:42):
hiding that I wasn't trying tobe something I was just being
me. I think that's such avaluable thing that you can
bring with consciousness withrespect with maturity as you
walk this path of, of manhood.
Oh, oh, what an episode. Thishas been fun. I love telling
stories. I love this. This is myfavorite. This has been my

(01:09:05):
favorite podcast. Yeah, it wasdelicious. Okay, we love you.
Bless up lovers. I'll see younext week. See you next week.
Yo, yo, yo, thank you so muchfor tuning in to another episode
of sex, love and everything inbetween. Now if you'd like to
stay connected with Megan, I Youcan head on over to Instagram
and follow me at the JacobO'Neill and where can people

(01:09:26):
find you lover at the dot magdot o amazing and yeah, guys,
check out the show notes for allthe information in regards to
what we've got coming up. Andyeah, we're super super grateful
that you guys for taking thetime to listen to this podcast.
If you do have any topics or anyquestions, like I said, hit us
up on Instagram and we'll seewhat we can do. Apart from that

(01:09:49):
have a beautiful, beautiful restof your day. Thanks for being
here. Big Big Love.