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March 6, 2024 27 mins

In 2006, High School Musical became an instant classic, full of songs that are nearly impossible to get out of your head, even 17 years later. The movie proved to be a breakout role for then-teen Vanessa Hudgens, who dreamed of making it big on the silver screen. But Vanessa soon found that she had to distance herself from the “good girl” image of Disney in order to avoid being trapped in a single genre. On this episode of She Pivots, Vanessa recounts her first foray into Broadway, the impact of media scrutiny over her body, and the inspiration behind the Caliwater brand.

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She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Vanessa, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Vanessa Hudgens.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Some news.
I'm so excited to announce that She Pivots is now

(00:34):
part of the iHeart Family. This isn't going to mean
much for you as the listeners. Same producers, same host,
same team, just bigger family. We're kicking off our first
iHeart episode with none other than Vanessa Hudgens. When the
email came through that she wanted to be on the show,

(00:57):
my producers and I could not have been more excited.
Now we all know Vanessa Hudgens as an actress, performer,
and singer, but she's pivoted into a new venture, or
several new ventures in fact, as a business owner. I
had the chance to interview Vanessa to talk about each
of these and then talk about her mindset going into

(01:17):
this new phase of life. It was so fun to
hear that she, like so many founders, attends trade shows
and works the room to get people to stock her product.
She is hustling just like the rest of us. Her
interview is truly delightful. It was fascinating to hear about
how she views the different phases and changes in her career,

(01:38):
especially considering that it started when she was just ten
years old. So stay tuned as we hear about everything
from her relationships to performing on Broadway to going into
business with friends. Enjoy.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
My name is Vanessa Hudgens, and I I am an actress,
a producer, singer, entrepreneur, business owner.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Okay, we're going to back up a little bit, So
what did you want to be when you thought about, like,
who am I going to be when I grow up?

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Like when you were little.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
When I was little, I was either going to be
a pediatrician or an actor. Okay, those were my two
things that I gravitated towards. I started musical theater when
I was like six years old, so that happened a
lot faster.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Than the pediatrician root would have taken me.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
And then as I've gotten older, I realized that I
would have not done well because I can't do blood.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
So you were performing locally in shows and really doing
exceptionally well, to the point that your family moved you
pretty young to La to start working professionally.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
I was very, very shy, and my parents saw that,
like I loved singing and dancing, so they put me
in like a community theater show where you literally have
to pay to play. It was like fifty bucks to
be in the play. And I like a tiny little
and I remember being terrified in the beginning. I would
like make myself as small as possible because I was like, I.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Don't want anyone to look at me.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
But through acting, I like felt that behind hiding behind
a character allowed me to open up so much more.
And then I had a friend who was like, I
can't go on this audition for a commercial.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Would you want to go? And I said.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Sure, my parents drove me and I ended up booking it.
So then I ended up signing with her agent. And
it was just kind of like one thing led to another,
and my parents are like, oh, well, it's like she's
actually working and you know, she's making an income. And
I feel like we moved the first time for me
to do this when I was probably eleven or twelve,

(03:48):
just to be closer Telle, because we were driving up
a lot from San Diego.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's a big decision to move your whole family. Did
you feel pressuring like they were moving it for your
career you were so young.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
No, because I had no concepts, you know, like I
don't know, like I enjoyed and loved doing what I
was doing, and they were like, let's move, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Like, Okay, that's great, I get to keep doing it.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
As a kid, you have no idea, you just know
what you love doing, and like that was it. I
feel like it took a long time for me to
even process the fact that that was my career because
it was just something that I was so passionate about.
I started homeschooling when I was probably fourteen years old, So.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
No, But at the same time, it was just something
that I loved. Like I didn't look.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
At it as a tour or a task or anything negative.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
It was literally just like, Oh, I get to show
up and play and have fun and this is really cool.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
It probably was after high school musical that I was like, oh,
this is actually my career, like this is my job.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, well talk me through that.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
When you went into high school musical, did you have
a sense about how big it would end up being no, of.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Course, not again. Just a kid happened a good time.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
We're back.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
Us High School Musical two only on Good Morning America
this morning.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Plus we're going to meet the cast of High School
Musical two and get to see them perform live. That's
all next on gm AN. I'm not ashamed to admit
looking forward, I had a crush, I had a new
best friend.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
I was like working on a movie with a director
who directed one of my favorite movies, Abra Jocus Focus.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Like I was just like, this is the dream I'm living,
literally the dream.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Like that was just it Like it still would have
been a very fond experience that I look back on.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
The first one we did when I was fifteen, the
last one we did when I was eighteen. So yeah,
like that whole three years, it was really just that
cast just the right or Die, us against the world,
and the whole world was looking and it was wild,
but like we had each other to lean on so
it felt safe.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, And did you really lean on one another in
that way?

Speaker 3 (06:14):
Oh yeah, for sure. Like I mean, Zach was my boyfriend,
Ashley was my best friend. We all lived within like
a ten minute ratious of each other. So we were
all very close and we kind of kept to ourselves always.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Zach is endurable and we all just have so much fun.
I me and this sad each other for like a year.
Now we work together, Like she is so great. I
love her. She's like now my sister. We all just
hang out. We just had a glass were as London
family in the content.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Obviously, a high school musical was quite a departure from
like the big film you had been before that in thirteen,
like very different, literally.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
The opposite ends of the spectrum.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
So did you think, Okay, I should lean into this
genre or I'm trying to prove something by be in
a different kind of genre, because you kind of bounced
around a little bit with choices after that.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
That was where I always had envisioned my career going.
I always wanted to be the indie girl. I wanted
to do the really artistic films that are mind bending
and make you really question life.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
That was always the goal.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
High school musical came around, and I was like, well,
you know, I might as well give it a go.
I love musicals still do really, and so like that
was just another aspect of myself that I knew I
could lean into, so that happened. But after that was
all said and done, I was like, Okay, I need

(07:43):
to pull away from this image because I don't want
to be stuck in a box. Like this is something
that I want to be doing for the rest of
my life, and if I allow myself to stay on
the same.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Train, it's cowens like that'll be it.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I always think that like the most interesting actors, other
people who are like real invent themselves and you're like, whoa,
that was wild.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
But that was them.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
I remember, like Charlie's a monster, and I was like,
oh my god, that's the dream. So then when I
got a script, gave me shelter and I talked to
the director and he was like, I want to cut
off all your hair and like be really cool if
you gained all this way, and I.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Was like, yes, just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes that
sounds like my cup of sea.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
But yeah, I had to like definitely distance myself from
the sweet, good girl next door character in order to,
I think, allow myself and my audience to grow with me.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Though Disney fame can be alluring, Vanessa knew that she
wanted to pull away. But how Vanessa shared that at
first she led with her own interests and instincts. Honestly,
it was just literally instinctual.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
It was like, Ooh, I don't want to be trapped here,
so I'm going to run the other direction, and like, wow,
there may be a lot of opportunity in this lane.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
That's not what I want because I already did that.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
And I think that is just so important to constantly,
like be growing in all aspects of life, especially in
your career. And I wasn't going to be growing much
if I kept on doing the same thing over and
over again.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, and then you.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Went into Broadway, Yes, which is a different kind of muscle.
Like you're a talented theater actor, but it's eight shows
a week.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, that's an it's a grind. I mean, I love theater.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I love the whole process of like the rehearsals and
the smell of the rehearsal rooms.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Like it's a weird nostalgic thing for me.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
And I just feel really really safe on the stage
because that is kind of where I found my shine.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Some singer Vanessa Hudgons first dance and saying her way
into our Hearts and the much loved High School Musical Trilogy.
And the music hasn't stopped for her now because now
she's bringing her talents to the Broadway.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Stage in the musical revival Jiji. That's right, Vanessa stars
is the title character in the Room.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I had to comedy about a young girl coming of
age in Paris, and that's a good morning.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
It's good to see.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
It was a lot of work, very draining, but like,
the interaction you have with the audience is something that's
so intimate, and it's the only place as an actor

(10:27):
that you have full creative freedom over your performance, whereas
in film the editor does and the director does, and
like what you see is not necessarily what you wanted
the audience to see. But on Broadway it's like you
have full creative rain. Obviously, like yes, stay within boundaries,
but the connection that you have to the audience is
something that's so intimate and the reaction is immediate, and

(10:52):
you get that every single night. You know, it's like
a conversation of energy. So it just if fueled being
Don't get me wrong, I was tired. I mean I
feel like I fell in love with theater because of
Natalie Wood Westside Story was like the first musical I
had ever seen, and I was just like in awe.

(11:14):
Gypsy followed right after that, and I also love that
world so much, so maybe Gypsy, but like there's so
many amazing musicals.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
You ended up doing like kind of a mix when
you did the Grease Live and the Rent Live. Like
you know, and I hate to transition this so quickly,
but we are in limited time. That you went on
in Grease Live right after you had a tragic loss
in your family, how were you able to go on live.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
The next day?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Great compartmentalization, honestly, but like that's what my dad would
have wanted, you know. It wasn't a sudden loss. He
had been battling cans Or for a while and we
actually thought that we had lost him three days prior,
and then he came back, came to so I was

(12:07):
actually with him like the night before, and I was
just like, please God, like just like I know it's
gonna happen, but just please not the night before. And
of course I have the night before, and I was
just like, Okay, there's no part of me that won't
do this right now. It just like wasn't even an

(12:29):
option like' that's what he would have wanted. And yeah, compartmentalizations.
It's a really powerful thing, good or bad. But sometimes
you know, it's like the fight or flight. You gotta
do what you gotta do to survive.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
They say the show must go on, and for actress
Vanessa Hudgens, it did, and she bravely performed the live
TV version of Greece only twenty four hours after the
death of her father. Vanessa sang and danced to her
pain during the three hour production, and I came. It
was heartrenching to hear her saying, there are worse things

(13:09):
I could do.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I went to yoga the next morning and I was
in child's post and I remember having a vision of
him where the clouds like the sky opened up and
he was just like there, like glowing, and he looked healthy,
and he had his mustache, which he had had my

(13:30):
entire life but didn't hap at the end of his life.
And he was just looking at me, smiling and like
doing this little chuckle that he used to always do,
which meantlet he was really proud.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
And I knew that like he was good. I knew
that like it would be okay.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
But that was a moment that I was like, oh, yeah,
like we this is something that you have to deal
with this like and yeah, putting it off, like putting
off attending to grief, even if it was for a
I think, isn't necessarily the most healthy thing. It's not
something I would recommend doing. Took a good amount of
therapy to like actually break that wall down for myself.

(14:10):
But again, you do what you got to do. Like,
he sacrificed so much of his life so that I
could get to where I am.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
So and Mark Platt, the producer, did like a special
honor message for him at the end of it, which
was really special for me and my family. So yeah,
definitely truly sweet. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Vanessa Hudgens is killing it.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
The show even honored Greg Hudgens in the final credits
with a touching dedication.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
At this point, Vanessa really had done it all, from
acting in a vast range of films indeed Disney to Broadway,
to judging for So You Think You Can Dance, to
performing two live TV musicals and who can forget her
as the reigning Queen of Coachella. Her impressive resume and
reputation left room for a more dramatic pivot, a pivot

(15:05):
into business. But first, a word from our sponsors. Now
back to the show.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
I've learned recently that I am OCD. I love control,
and as an actor, there's only so much that you
can control. And I found myself with more time on
my hands than I wanted. And one of my really
dear friends was like, Hey, I think that we would
do a great job at like starting a business together

(15:38):
with my skill set and your skill set. If we
put our minds together, I think that we could like
really do something special. And so I was like, interesting,
that's something I had never really thought about. And it
took my friend all over Trina to be like, you
got this, Like this is something I see in you.
And then once like he ignited that flame, I was like, oh, oh,

(16:00):
let's burn it down. Like I'm so ready and I'm
so in, and it really does scratch a creative itch
that I don't get elsewhere. I'm so hands on with
everything when it comes to packaging, when it comes to messaging,
when it comes to like ingredients, like I'm very passionate
about what it is that I'm putting out to the world.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
In this day and age, it seems like every celebrity
under the sign has either a tequila or a makeup brand.
Vanessa made it clear that her businesses were born out
of something.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Deliberate, something deeply. Vanessa, there's so much on the market.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
We're constantly being bamboozled with the newest, next big thing.
But the fact is, like these things are out because
people are passionate about them and they believe in them,
and small business owners need all the support in the
world that they can get because it is such a
saturated space and AMEX is honestly such a game changer

(17:01):
as a small business owner, like, I've found the importance
of keeping my personal and my business expenses separate because
when you do so, you can actually earn so much
more for your business. On the points side, like with
the new American Express Business goal Card, it will see
the top two categories that your business is spending the

(17:22):
most in per cycle and you get four times the
rewards so you can just pour.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Back into your business.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
So I'm like, they've always been really helpful for small businesses,
and that's why I just like love, like really praising them,
because it's tough.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
We're going to take a short break for some ads.
Now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
So I think it was around twenty nineteen and that happened,
and I went on a road trip through New Mexico
and I got a prickly paar of margarita and I.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Was like, ooh, what if this magical? And why do
I know nothing about it?

Speaker 3 (18:02):
So I looked into it and I realized prickly pear
out all these health benefits. And I sent it to
my friend and I was like, maybe we should do
something around this, Like that's really interesting. He's like, great idea,
I'll look into it. And then he came back to
me He's like, did you know that cactuses actually produced
their own water as well? Like maybe we have a
beverage there. And I'm like, Oliver, you're a genius.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
And so like from there, we started working on their packaging,
our ingredients, the taste profiles, which took a really long
time because, like I said, I'm very specific and everything
has to be perfect because I am OCD. But also
like we wanted to figure out a component of giving
back and like finding an organization that we can partner with,

(18:46):
so that it's not just us, you know, like we
want to make sure that we're like making a good
impact on the world, and partnered with No Kid Hungary,
which I was like newly aware of, and especially during
twenty twenty, I was like what they were doing because
obviously a hard time for everyone, but like especially families
who can't provide nok and Hungary was still stepping in

(19:08):
and making meals for the children and families. Even so,
I was like, Okay, great, we got our solid partnership.
That was kind of like the last part of Cali
Water for it to come together.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, and then we launched.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
The actress and singer is adding beverage line co founder
to her resume. She and co founder Oliver Travina are
launching a new product.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's called Caliwater.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Products Expost twenty twenty two in Anaheim, California.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
I'm here with Vanessa Hudgens.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
She's known as an actress, but she's now the co
founder of Cactus Water brand Cali Water.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Vanessa, thank you for being here today.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Of course, thank you for being here today.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
But then in that time, since I started scratching maticch,
I was like, ooh, what abo Like, I also love skincare,
such a skincare girly.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Maybe there's something in that world.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
And like Madison Beer was like a new friend at
that time and she was going through her own skincare journey,
and I was like, maybe we can I put our
minds together and like you I'm something new literally, and
like that's honestly now talking about it, it makes me
realize that like all of my business ventures have been

(20:20):
joint efforts. Like none of them I've done on my own.
They've literally been a collaboration. And I really lean on
my collaborators heavily because nobody can do it all by themselves.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
No. The village, Yeah, it takes a village. Everything, everything
takes a village. Literally, something you've learned about yourself in it,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean, like I guess I knew it would be
a lot of shmarracing, but it's like it really is
all about the connections that you make, you know, And
I'm so used to that from my industry and like
going to all the award show parties and like doing
the thing and I was like, oh, it's it's it's

(21:04):
the same in business.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like I'm gonna go talk to that owner of that market,
and you know, like sell it with everything I got. Luckily,
I'm a good salesperson yourself. Luckily I'm good at business.
It turns out I'm trying. But yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
It's a lot of a lot of like building personal relationships,
which I love because I really do love like people
like I was talking about you earlier about like being
on the subway and dancing with a random stranger. Like
it's really interesting, and I feel like the more that
I have these conversations with these other business owners, the
more that I'm learning as well.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
So it's kind of a it's a good trade off.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
What advice do you have for women who are looking
to start small businesses or just pivot.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
I would say a find a good team that you trust,
that you love, and that you respect. I think like
having a team around you that you have all your
faith in and rely on is one of the most
fundamental things about being a business owner or being a
business yourself, Like you got to have a solid team.

(22:16):
Another thing, honestly, is like separating your finances, your personal
and your business expenses. Keep those bad boys separate because
there's so much room for you to be able to
build off of what you're already doing if you have
a business account and the American Expressed Business Goal Card
is phenomenal at that.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also like do the work, Like.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Don't shy away from any of it, whether that's like
going to your packagers or going to all the meetings,
going to the conferences. I literally go to beverage conferences
and I'm like standing behind our Cali waterbooth, hand pouring
the little testers and handing them out and having the
best time ever because I'm sharing something that I'm so
passionate about.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
So like, don't skimp on the work. Do it all.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
What is something in your life that at the time
you saw was like a real negative but now you
see it having really launched you into the success that
you are now.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
I feel like so much of my character was built
from my breakups. Also, the tenacity I have, I think
is like from starting in my career at such an
early age and dealing with so much rejection that like
you really have to build a very strong backbone in
order to keep doing it when everyone's telling you no.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
That builds a lot of character.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
But yeah, I feel like my last breakup has really
catapulted me to a very very special place obviously if you.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Pushed me to the right person, which I'm so grateful for.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Because he's just the most supportive, real understanding human being
that I've ever met.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Well, I also love that you answered with a personal
don't like if we're trying, if we're thinking about how
the personal and the professional.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
And they really go hand in hand.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Like being in public relationships over the years, it feels
like people feel like they have a right to weigh in,
like how have you dealt with that? And also you
know there might be like power dynamic imbalances or balances
in relationships, like your relationships have been so public.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, I mean I feel like I literally just had
a run in with the public taking control over their
opinion of me in a.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Way that was disrespectful.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
I went on my bachelorette and I posted a video
of me and there are all these comments that are like,
oh my god, you're pregnant, and I was like, that
is so rude.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I don't wear spanks every day and like, am a
real woman and have a real body.

Speaker 7 (24:48):
Vanessa Hudgens fans convinced she's pregnant off the spot and
clues at Aspen Potty. The high school musical star shared
a video on Instagram showing off her bachelorette party, but
fans thought they spotted signs of pregnancy.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
I was like, I'm literally like celebrating one of the
happiest times in my life, and you guys are just
going to make me like feel fat.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's that's great things.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
But I'm like, you know, I think that it's a
good place for me to remind other women of like
the Four Agreements, you know, the Forour Agreements. No, actually,
it's by Don Miguel Louise. It's a fantastic book. It
honestly changed my perspective when I was probably nineteen years
old and really opened up my eyes to like the

(25:31):
connectivity of like the universe and like simple rules for
being a good person, and one of them is don't
make assumptions, and like, yes that in all aspects of life,
but especially over other women's bodies. You know, like we
deal with so much with other people trying to control
our bodies, not let's not make assumption over other women's

(25:53):
bodies as well. So you know, the things that I
do have to face, while they're not the most pleasant,
and maybe don't make me feel the greatest about myself.
I can then take that and share the message and
hopefully remind others to, you know, fee a little more mindful.
Nothing weng and being pregnant obviously like I can't wait
for the day, but like, don't make.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Assumptions over women's bodies. Totally. Well, thank you so much, Vanessa.
Great to have you on. Thank you so much, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Vanessa is still continuing to grow her businesses, which include
Calie Water Known Beauty, and her latest venture, Thomas Ashbourne
Kraft Spirits. She lives with her adorable dog and new husband,
Cole Tucker in La.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Be sure to follow.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Vanessa on Instagram at Vanessa Hudgens for all her latest
updates and just generally fun amazing content. Thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. If
you made it this far, you're a true pivoter, So
thanks for being part of this community. I hope you

(27:00):
enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us a rating,
please be nice and tell your friends about us. To
learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at
she Pivots the podcast, or sign up for our newsletter,
where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content, or
on our website.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
She Pivots. The podcast talk to You Next Week.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced
by Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from
Nina Pollok, and research and planning for Christine Dickinson and
Hannah Cousins.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
I endorse she Pivots.
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