How to Have a Threesome That Brings You Closer—Not Blows You Up

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Do the sex.

SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast
formerly known as Locker RoomTalk and Shots.
The show has a new name, TalkSex with Annette.
But at its core, this is stillyour locker room.
It's where we strip away shame,get curious, and speak the
unspoken about sex, kink,dating, pleasure, and desire.
Around here, nothing's offlimits.

(00:24):
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends, and of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest, and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you.
And if you're new, welcome to mypodcast where desire meets
disruption and pleasure becomespower.

(00:46):
Now, let's talk about sex.
Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with AnetteTopic is a couple's guide to
threesomes, how to plan it, doit, and keep your relationship
intact.
What if your biggest fantasycould actually bring you closer

(01:07):
instead of blowing things up?
Today we are diving into one ofthe most talked-about fantasies
in relationships, the threesome.
And not just how to plan one.
We are going to talk about howto plan one and how to carry it
out with confidence,communication, and connection.
And I have the perfect guide forthis conversation.

(01:31):
My guest today is Allie Eisman,an ICF certified relationship
coach, a kink aware educator,and an E ⁇ M consultant whose
work has been featured in theNew York Times.
She's the founder of Passport toPleasure, an inclusive
relationship education platformand the creator of Kavanos, a

(01:52):
global series of luxury eroticevents designed to teach what
real consent and chemistry looklike.
I'm very curious about that.
Together, we are breaking downthe exact steps for couples to
move from fantasy tofollow-through without jealousy,
awkwardness, or shame or blowingup their relationship.

(02:12):
But before we dive in, I want toremind you all that I'm over on
OnlyFans.
And there I'm sharing my sex andintimacy how-tos, demos, and
audio guided self-pleasuremeditations.
I'm also offering someone-on-one sex and intimacy
coaching.
I'm giving you a taste, if youwill.
If you're not ready to dive infor the full meal deal, you can
ask me one-off questions overthere.

(02:35):
I'm doing a lot of the same overon Substack.
You can find me in both placeswith my handle at Talk Sex
withinit.
You can also scroll down to thenotes below, and you're going to
find links to everywhere youwant to find me.
I'm excited to see you there.
But for now, Allie, I would lovefor you to take a moment to tell
my listeners a little bit moreabout you.

SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
Well, thank you so much.
You did such a great jobalready.
As you said, yes, certifiedrelationship coach.
I get to call the modernrelationship excerpt because I
don't coach or speak from theperspective of couples as the
only model.
I have an inclusive relationshipdesign style that I work in.
So whether you want to, youknow, open up your relationship

(03:17):
to other people or you just wantto open up more authentically to
each other, people come to me towork on opening up without
breaking up.
And that can look like exploringtheir first threesome.
That can look like going totheir first play party, which is
a space I've been involved inpersonally and professionally
since 2016.
It's been quite an incrediblejourney for me, both getting

(03:38):
certified as a relationshipcoach in this light and being,
you know, an erotic eventproducer and liaison and
consultant.
It was a personal journey thatfruited into a professional one.
I started exploring in 2016.
I tried opening up what becamemy last monogamous relationship.
And wouldn't you know it, itblew up in my face because I've

(03:58):
had none of the tools and skillsneeded to do so mindfully.
So what I like to say is I'vespent the last decade learning
everything the hard way.
So you don't have to.
And those are the tools andskills that my website, Passport
to Pleasure, provides, becausewe weren't given the tools and
skills that we need to build therelationships that we want and
deserve.
And I want to make sure thateveryone across the world has

(04:19):
access to them.

SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
So, listeners, I don't need to tell you why to
stay to the end because I thinkeven in relationships where you
consider yourself monogamous, somany couples, even in that
model, want to experience athreesome and figure out how
does that fit into my monogamousmodel.
And if you don't have the toolsand you just go stumbling into

(04:44):
it, trying to find a friend toshove between you, you're
running the risk of reallyblowing up what you've worked so
hard to build.
By the end of this podcast, youare gonna have a full guide.
I have done a how-to on planningbefore.
We're still gonna touch on that,but this is really gonna fill
out how to do this well.
You've got two people here toguide you through it.

(05:07):
And at the end, we'll give youthe takeaways as I always do.
I'm excited.
Let's jump in, jump in becausethreesomes, as all of my
listeners know, it's kind oflike one of my favorite things
to talk about.
It's it might be my kink alittle bit too.
So let's let's get ready to talkabout threesomes and really
create, right?

(05:27):
Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:28):
Well, I actually I love to, you've touched on a few
things right out the gate thatare something I always like to
stress in this conversation.
That that go with the flowmentality, right?
Like, oh, it'll just happen likeorganically, right?
Going with the flow is a greatway to drown.
So there is a reason we getswimming lessons.
It's okay to do some prep workand really understand why we're

(05:51):
getting into this.
And to your point as well, aboutyou know, whether you're
monogamous, polyamorous,somewhere in between, whatever
stage of exploration you're at,the framework I coach from is if
you're in a couple, you'realready in a threesome.
There's you, there's yourpartner, and there's the
relationship.
So understanding more aboutmulti-partner dynamics, whether
it's sexual, emotional, or both,will only support your

(06:13):
relationship, whatever type ofrelationship you're in.

SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
All right.
I love that.
I'm gonna touch on that.
Cheers.
Let's talk about threesomes.
First of all, you said somethingimportant.
You said there's a threesome,like because the relationship
involves your relationship withyourself, the other person, you
guys together.
I always say that your mostimportant lover, partner, your

(06:38):
primary partner should always beyourself.

SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Well, you are your only life partner, actual life
partner for life.

SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Absolutely true.
And we never start focusing onthat with focusing on that
relationship.
So that's really important.
And I'm I'm so glad that you hiton that because going into any
threesome, in my opinion, and Iwant your opinion more
importantly, you gotta reallyknow yourself and your
relationship, what you canhandle as well as what your

(07:11):
relationship can handle.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (07:14):
Absolutely.
And I think it's also importantto acknowledge when we talk
about threesomes, it's so commonthat we're talking about a
couple looking to bring a thirdperson in.
But a threesome is an experiencefor three people.
It could be three friends, threesingle people.
We also need to talk about theperspective of if it is a third
person coming in to play andinteract with a couple, what

(07:34):
that experience is.

SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
So couples listening to this, it's not just you.
And that's going to be a pointthat we drill into down the
road.
But I am also curious about whydo so many couples fantasize
about threes, about threesomes,but so few are able to pull them
off.

SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
Well, think about it.
That there's gosh, that is a wecould spend the entire episode
just talking about thepsychology and the social
economics around that.
But we a conflate socially ouremotional and our sexual
experience.
You know, love is sex, iscommitment.
Those are not actually synonyms.
So there's a lot of guilt thatcan be associated with, you

(08:18):
know, oh, I'm I'm wanting toexplore someone else.
That must mean because love is azero-sum game, and therefore
attraction is a zero-sum gamethat I must love my partner less
or be less attracted to them,when that's actually
biochemically not how it works,psychologically not how it
works, but it's the story we'retold, right?
So there's so many layers ofpsychology that come through

(08:40):
that as well.
And then when you're in that,like in that shame spiral, let's
say you still broach the topic,but you're still you're carrying
all that story with you.
It can feel a lot easier to justkind of run and jump.
Okay, we talked about it.
Let's just let's go and do it.
Instead of actually sitting withthe discomfort, what do we need
to unpack here to really have asuccessful experience that's

(09:03):
additive to our relationship?
Make sure we're not avoidingsomething.
Are we actually saying yes andto what we already have?

SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
A lot of couples want this.

SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
First of all, I need number one reporter fantasy.

SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Right.
So it's helpful to know if yourpartner comes to you or you
start having thoughts about itand you start to go into shame
spiral, don't.
Everybody wants it.
But now in this process, let'ssay the couple has verbalized to
each other.
Oh, yeah, we're fantasizingabout this.
What comes next?
What should they start thinkingabout next?

(09:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
Well, first and foremost, most likely, not
necessarily, but most likelyboth of you won't be exactly
equal, excited, the same amount,ready to go.
That's actually okay.
You don't have to be a full fuckyes, but no one can be a full
fuck no.
So step number one, step numberone is why do you even want to

(10:01):
do this?
Cool, you want to have athreesome.
Why?
Without knowing that, becausethat whether you acknowledge it
and understand it or not, thatbig why, I call it, is going to
inform your entire experience.
Don't you want to be an activeparticipant in that?
Don't you kind of want tounderstand what's fueling this
desire, what you're hoping toget out of it, setting up

(10:25):
expectations?
You're going to want to figureout that why both individually
and together again, because ifyou're in a couple, you're
already in a threesome.
What's the why for yourrelationship?
Are you looking to deepensomething in the relationship?
Are you looking to exploresomething within yourself,
fulfill a fantasy?
What is that?
Why?
Where does that come from?
It's not as like heavy liftingas you think.

(10:45):
I actually have like a free toolthat I created for folks to
explore that.
Whether you want to open up toexplore consensual non-monogamy,
or you're just looking to,again, go to play parties, or
you're just looking to try athreesome.
Understanding your big why isstep number one.
And we can share that link, I'msure, in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
Yeah, because when you brought that up, the first
thing I thought, I and look,guys, I know that I help y'all
facilitate conversations, butwhen I'm in my own situation,
I'm like, eek.
If I were to bring that to apartner, I would, and they were
to say, okay, why do you want todo this?

(11:24):
I'd be like, I don't know.
I think it's kind of sexy.
I know that that's what I woulddo.
I know that I would like clam upand I'd give some dumbass
answer.
And not that it's dumb ass, butit would feel dumb.
Like, I feel like I should havea more as the person who does
what I do, that it should beeasier for me to answer.

(11:45):
But so to have a tool to helpyou even think through like, why
do I want to do this?
Like, I have a partner I'mhaving great sex with.
Why do I want to go and throwanother person in it?
Right.
I am now, because I know I likethreesomes, having those
conversations before I even likeget into relationships.
I'm like, I like threesomes.

(12:05):
So whoever I date, we need toeventually need to be able to
talk about it, right?

SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Well, because whys aren't it created equally,
right?
And it's so easy to go, even ifI understand my why, if I'm in
partnership with somebody, it'seasy for me to assume it's the
same for them.
You know, I might want to bejust checking off a fantasy.
It's something I've alwaysthought about since I was a kid,
whatever it was.
You know, you want to have thatexperience and have that, you
know, like just check that offthe list.

(12:33):
While your partner may be havinglike deep-seated unpacking of
like bisexuality and questioningtheir identity and all this, and
you could be having two totallydifferent experiences.
But if you don't talk about it,you're really setting yourselves
up for really unnecessaryconflict where you can lay the
groundwork if you understandboth of your whys and again

(12:55):
create a why for therelationship as well.
Then you're really laying thatgroundwork to have a lot more,
quite frankly, fun.
Like, and it again, it doesn'thave to be this long, drawn out,
you know, five conversations in,just put a little bit of thought
in it.
That's why, again, having like afree tool, like my big why, you
know, my what the fuck do youwant workbook?

(13:16):
It just walks you through somereally easy exercises to really
unpack that and verbalize it ina really concise way.
But I cannot tell you if you donothing else on this, if you do
nothing else, drilling down intothat big why is really setting
yourself up for a lot moresuccess.

SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
So you figured out your why.
You had the toolbook, you guysworked through it, the awkward
conversations.
Now you're both clear on whatthe why is.
Where do we go?

SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
Let's talk about our dibs, our desires, intentions,
and boundaries.
This is really, really funbecause this is this can help
you build your yes, no, maybelist.
What are some things we want tokind of experience during this?
What are what kind of person arewe looking for if we're a couple
looking for a third person?
Really having theseconversations, think of it like
foreplay.

(14:04):
Think of it like the T's.
You really get to go in afantasy land here when you're
building, you know, the scene,basically.
So the yes, no, maybe list ispretty self-explanatory.
What are the things I'mdefinitely down for?
What are the things I'm like notso sure about?
We can kind of use a red, red,yellow, green, you know, traffic
light system in the scene to seeif we're ready to go there.

(14:26):
And what's definitely not on thetable?
That's super, super important.
You don't want to berenegotiating the scene in the
middle of it, but the maybes area nice little piece of like, I'm
willing to try it out, notguaranteeing it's gonna be a
full green light, but let'slet's try and see how it feels.
Having your dibs, your desires,your intentions, and your

(14:47):
boundaries really clear enablesyou to share that with the third
person that you're inviting.
Because fun fact, this is notactually just a walking sex toy.
This is a whole ass human beingwho's gonna have their own big Y
and their own dibs and their ownthings that they're looking to
experience.
So getting collaborative aboutit, making sure, again, you're

(15:10):
really co-creating thisexperience is just that's the
juicy stuff.
These aren't chores.
This is the foreplay.
This is the flirtation.
So if you've if we've gone,you've got your big why, you've
talked about your dibs, you'reready to go, maybe you've put
together that yes, no, maybelist.
It's time to look for someone tomeet.

SPEAKER_00 (15:31):
Right, let's talk about that because that's a
whole thing.
So you're a big one.
How do you suggest looking forthat person?
And most importantly, who shouldabsolutely not be someone you go
to to bring into a threesomescenario?

SPEAKER_02 (15:48):
Let's bust my favorite myth, big myth.
Let's just talk to our friendbecause we already know them, we
have rapport, like super easy,right?
So many versions of wrong.
Not what you think.
Sometimes, sometimes there'salways an exception.
Generally speaking, especiallyif this is your first threesome,

(16:11):
don't go for a friend.
Because so many, so manyelements that a lot of couples
want to feel safer about, like,oh, we're not gonna, we're not
gonna develop feelings.
No one can guarantee that.
You are having physicalexperiences that create chemical
reactions in the body known asemotions.
It's perfectly normal to havefeelings come up.

(16:33):
So if you're playing withsomebody who you already have an
emotional relationship with, aclose friend, it's only natural
that those feelings may elevate.
And then you're adding layers ofunnecessary potential confusion.
You know, this might be theirfirst threesome, two.
It's gonna impact therelationship.
So, especially, especially whenyou're early on in this

(16:54):
exploration, keep it outside ofthe friend circle.
Keep it outside of yourprofessional circle as well.
No one at work, it needs to beinvolved in that part of your
relationship right now.
And it's it can also feeldaunting to think like, so
you're saying, go meet like astranger and we're gonna bring

(17:15):
them into the most like intimatepart of our relationship.
Yeah, you're dating.
You're basically starting todate as a couple if you're
looking to bring somebody intothat intimate connection that
you have.
But I'm not saying go to thelocal coffee shop, pick somebody
up at a bar, whatever,especially again when you're
just starting, when this is yourfirst or one of your first, look

(17:36):
for apps that are specific to,you know, non-monogamy, kink,
you know, people that arealready looking for what could
be considered non-mainstream,you know, sexual, emotional,
relational experiences.
You're going to find people whoare actively looking to play
with a couple.
There's a term unicorn that youmight hear.

(17:56):
There's mixed feelings about theterm.
A lot of people don't like itbecause, again, it treats the
that third person like anoutsider, like this, you know,
mythical, again, human walkingsex toy that has no needs or,
you know, feelings of their own.
But some people actually reallylove being a unicorn and really
identify with that, and theyreally are attracted to a couple
that's known as symbiosexuality,the attraction to an already

(18:19):
existing dynamic.
So those unicorns are out there,but make sure that you're a
unicorn couple as well, thatyou're the couple that is really
ready to welcome them in, thatis curious about what they want
to do, what they want toexperience, that you're adding
to their experience just as muchas they're adding to yours.
So those apps are a great way,going to, you know, in-person

(18:42):
events, munches, which are uh,you know, generally in the kink
space are a non-play social.
If you are going to playparties, say you've been going
to play parties as a couple, youonly play with each other, or
you don't play at the event,that can be a place to meet
people.
I wouldn't necessarily startplaying right away at a party.
I would make a, you know, make adate.

(19:02):
And then this is my major, majorpro tip.
If you have found someone thatyou're interested in that you're
both interested in, setting up apre-game chat.
Get coffee, a non-sexualenvironment.
The first in-person meeting isnot going to be sexual.
There's not going to be anyplay.
You're just getting together in3D, ideally.

(19:24):
If it has to be a video call, ithas to be a video call, but
ideally in 3D in person.
And you're really, it's a vibecheck.
How do we each feel around eachother?
What does it literally feel liketo be in close proximity to each
other?
Does it feel good?
Is it is it exciting?
Do we want to flirt?
Do we do we innately want totake this forward?

(19:44):
And use that as an opportunityto really talk about everything
that we've touched on.
What are your dibs as a couple?
What are their dibs?
Where's the overlap?
Where's the disconnect?
Are you interested in the samethings?
Are you again, are you is theconversation flowing easily?
Does everyone feel open?
And sometimes in a couple, notboth partners are going to feel

(20:06):
attracted to or connected to aperson in the same way.
And that's really important tofind out before you're all
trying to take your clothes off.

SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Absolutely.
How do you feel about hiringsomeone, finding an escort or
something like that for a firsttime?

SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Yeah.
Especially if you are reallylike just not wanting to worry
about any emotionalentanglements.
This is really just to serve ourfantasy as a couple or you know,
our experience.
I actually recommend workingwith a professional because they
are professionally able to holdthat boundary.
It's really not fair to ask acivilian, if you will, to do

(20:50):
that.
Even if you've had theconversation.
And I've worked with coupleswho, you know, we had the
conversation, they said theywere okay with it, and then down
the line and da-da-da.
Yes, because they're people too,and boundaries established by a
professional dynamic create aspace that is just not going to
be there if you're not workingwith a professional.

SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
Right.
And that's as safe as you canget, right?
If you don't want the emotionalmessiness.
And again, one of the things youkeep reiterating that I need
people to hear is that you arebringing a whole person into
your relationship and you don'tknow all of their stuff.

(21:36):
You know, you're you're you'renot going through the courting
phase that you did with eachother.
And you have to allow for themto be on their own journey as
well.
And I have heard couples all ofit, and I've been in
relationships where someone'sbeen like, well, can't we just
find one who just someone whojust wants to be a sex toy?
And I'm like, yeah, no, first ofall, I think that feels icky to

(21:59):
me.
Second of all, it never worksout that way.
Even if, and there are peoplewho will say people who want
that.
Yeah, who else, and I don'tthink this is synonymous with
being a unicorn, but there arepeople who are like, yeah, I
think it's my kink to kind of bethe sex toy that comes into a
relationship.
I'm saying you're still notcounting on that person

(22:22):
continuing to feel that way.
But when you are working with aprofessional, there are like
there's professional boundariesput upon it, right?

SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Exactly.
And like, look, these are alldynamics.
I don't want to get into rightor wrong.
Like couples privilege exists.
There's nothing inherently,you're not wrong for having
couples privilege.
You just need to be aware of it.
And for those who don't know,couples privilege, it just means
you spent more time together,you guys have a rapport, you

(22:52):
know, you know, maybe you mayhave your own language, you
understand how to read eachother.
There's there's a sharedexperience there that isn't
there for the other person.
So having an understanding ofthat and being responsible for
that is key.
And so if the need is betterserved by a professional who
will have those boundaries, thenby all means, do so.
And that actually brings upsomething too, an important part

(23:14):
of the conversation with apotential third, is are they
looking for something recurringor are they only interested in a
one-night stand?
Because again, not everyonewants to repeat, and not
everyone wants a new person foreach threesome.
Some people want to recur, butthat, you know, creates
potential for blossomingrelationship of whatever kind,

(23:36):
which again is okay.
We could do a whole section onlike, you know, quote, not
catching feelings.
It is okay, dare I say, ideal tocatch feelings.
Feelings are a wonderful part ofthe process.
Feelings do not, what's theword, do not like designate or
differentiate that anything elseabout anyone else?

(23:59):
It's just about that connection.
Our actions are what delineatewho we are, what kind of
relationship we want to be in.
So having feelings for anotherperson is wonderful.
Talk to your partner about it.
What, if any, you know,agreements do you want to make
around that?
Do you want to continueexploring those feelings further
or not?
Do you want to create someboundaries?
They're just data.

(24:19):
So don't, you know, the theblame game or thinking this is a
bad thing or something to avoid.
Oh, that was the thing.
You had said we're going to talkabout how to avoid jealousy.
I am not able to have thatconversation because I don't
think jealousy is something tobe avoided.
Honestly, it's coming, it'sgonna come up like most likely.

SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
I I do want to talk about, I think it's important
that we talk about jealousy in athreesome and the concept of
jealousy.
There are so many people wholook at jealousy as a bad thing.
And it's interesting becauseI've started dating someone and
we've I mean, up front we hadconversations about jealousy and

(25:06):
our take, our hot takes onjealousy.
I'm curious how with what's yourperspective on okay, you've
chosen your pro you've gone yougot on the apps or you hired
someone.
Now you're gonna embark.
Let's say you've gone on uhthey've taken your advice, they

(25:28):
went out, they sat down, theyhad their coffee or their
dinner, sparks happened, andalso some jealousy was sparked.
One partner like seemed to talkeasier to the person, or maybe
the third held eye contact withone person just has to hair

(25:48):
longer, and you're like, Oh,what is that feeling?
It's jealousy.
Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 (25:56):
Absolutely.
Number one, do not pretend it'snot there.
It will erode everything fromthe inside if you do that.
It's there.
Imagine saying to someone, ohgosh, you're sad.
That's bad.
Oh, you're experiencing joy,that's bad.
Jealousy is just an emotion.

(26:18):
It's just an emotion.
It's data, it's information.
So understanding jealousy,understanding what type of
jealousy you're dealing with iskey.
I have a YouTube video about thefour types of romantic jealousy.
And then I also deep dive intoretroactive jealousy, with this,
which is its own bear, doesn'treally come in here.
But, you know, is this aninsecurity within yourself?
Are you in comparison orcompetition?

(26:40):
Is there a fear of abandonmentcoming up, or is there a level
of distrust in the relationship?
What type of jealousy is beingtriggered right now?
This is an opportunity toactually connect deeper with
your partner.
Are you creating yourrelationship as a safe space to
be like, hey, I'm having somereally uncomfortable feelings,

(27:00):
not quite sure about yet, butI'd like to talk to you.
I think I'm experiencinginsecurity.
I think I'm experiencing, youknow, love, you know, we've had
a history of not telling eachother full truths.
It's bringing up some distrust.
I really want to talk aboutthat.
And making sure you're notresponding to your partner with,
you know, shame or blame.
There's nothing wrong with themfeeling that way.

(27:21):
There's nothing wrong withtalking about it.
Pretending it's not there isreally what's going to do the
destruction.
So that's why I like to say it'snot about avoiding jealousy,
especially when you're openingup or you're exploring
threesomes.
This is absolutely going tobring that up.
And it's actually a wonderfulway to work through it and use
jealousy as a bid for connectionand deeper intimacy.

(27:43):
You can actually build moretrust by talking about jealousy
and having it as an active partof your relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
I love that.
I feel like, like you said, itgives more information.
For me, I think when I feeljealousy, I'm like, oh, it tells
me how much I'm caring about theperson I'm with.
Like it tells me a little bitmore about, like, oh, you know,
when I don't have any jealousy,I'm kind of like, am I meh, am I
meh in this situation?
It like sparks feelings andcuriosity.

(28:13):
It also gives me informationabout myself.
Like, yeah, I would send it.
What do I feel that I'm lacking?
What do I, or how am I comparingmyself?
Or what are the things that Ineed to work on in myself?

SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
Yeah, I would definitely, I would encourage
more examination becausejealousy is absolutely not
indicative of care.
It has a lot more generally todo with our relationship with
ourselves and what we may bebringing into the relationship
or projecting into therelationship.
There may be very real, like Isaid, if there's a history of
you know, dishonesty or thingslike that, it may be a
relationship element as well,but it's not indicative

(28:50):
necessarily that you care aboutsomebody because it can be
ego-related.
Oh, I need to know that likeeveryone I'm interacting with is
all about me.
And so if they're looking atsomething about kind of stuff,
so it can, but it's notnecessarily about that.
Because yeah, that's what alwayshas fascinated me about like
sort of public discourse aboutjealousy.
Somehow jealousy is a sign thatyou care, but simultaneously is

(29:14):
a sign of an unhealthyrelationship.
So I'm like, which one is it?

SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
Both.
I mean, it's I think it'sunhealthy when it's like, oh, I
feel this thing, and now I'vegot to clamp down on this
person, or I need them to feedmore.
I also jealousy kind of turns meon.
I'm just gonna let's get intoerotic jealousy.

SPEAKER_02 (29:35):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
I mean, so I can't, it does make me go, ooh, I'm
kind of like into this person.
I'm having this feeling, butthen I'm also like, oh, you're
gonna fuck this person I'm with,and then I get turned on and I
want to watch it.
That's a lot of information.

SPEAKER_02 (29:52):
Yeah, and I resonate fully.
So we're getting into we'regetting into erotic conversion
or erotic jealousy.
Persian, if those for those ofyou who haven't heard the term
before, it's basically likeempathetic joy.
It's you know, joy or pleasurefrom your partner experiencing
joy or pleasure with someoneelse.
And it doesn't have to beerotic.
You don't have to get turned onby it.

(30:13):
It just kind of feels good, butyou can't get turned on by it.
And then on the other side,there's jealousy, which does not
feel very good.
You can still get turned on bysomething that does not feel
very good.
I 100% experience eroticconversion and erotic jealousy.
It's only in a deeply securerelationship that I can really

(30:33):
play with that erotic jealousyin a in what feels like a safe
and expansive way.
Compersion is like, you know, Icould all day long for my
friends.
Like if I'm like the more joy,the more joy.
Like I love seeing people happy,people I care about, being with
each other, love it.
But when it's coming from ajealousy place and it doesn't
feel very good, that for me, atleast at this stage, requires a

(30:56):
deep level of security and comand communication and connection
with my partner or partners thatare involved in that dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
So I like the I like the cocktail of both of them
together.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
Oh, it is, it is so, it is so yummy, and it's such a
juicy place to be in.
I I have really been able todive into it in one of my
current partnerships right now.
It's just been something I'vealways wanted to really explore
more.
And oh, and I before I forgettoo, I just want to touch on
when we were talking about sortof the, you know, jealousy as a

(31:36):
marker of care, but also amarker of unhealthy.
You you said it exactly right.
It's the behavior around thejealousy, not the jealousy
itself that is inherentlyhealthy or unhealthy.
What do you do with it or not dowith it is really what tells
that tale.
So, you know, for me, God, whenI, you know, much earlier in my

(31:57):
journey, I had a jealousy derailuh couple swap, like very
intensely.
It's like like I did not knowwhat was happening to me because
my gateway into non-monogamy wasconversion.
I had never experienced jealousybefore in what had up to that
point been monogamousrelationships.
I always got really, for me, itwas erotic conversion.

(32:18):
I got really turned on bythinking about my partners, you
know, being with somebody elseor us being in a threesome or
stuff like that was felt reallyyummy.
And so I thought that's whatjealousy was.
And I was like, I don'tunderstand, you know, why
jealousy's got such a bad rap.
It feels great.
Like this is it's hot, like thisis the best.
And then I was in, was it my myfirst long-term ENM, like open

(32:41):
relationship?
And we had, we were, we had goneon a date with a couple, we were
having a fun physical experiencetogether, we had spot partners,
we were all in the same room,and it was a specific moment
I'll never forget.
I looked over and she was doingsomething with him that I'm not
physically capable of doing, andI know he really, really likes,

(33:03):
and my whole body just shutdown.
It was like tunnel vision, soundleft the room.
Like I had never experiencedthis in my life.
It was actually my firstexperience of jealousy, and I it
and I I completely shut down andI shut down the date with it.
I didn't know how to talk aboutit.
I couldn't even look at mypartner.
I was, I was just, I had gonecompletely internalized.

(33:27):
And that's what it can look likewhen you don't have the tools.
And so it makes perfect sense.
People want to avoid that.
Feels terrible, can ruin anexperience, could ruin a
relationship.
But it's not the jealousy thatdoes that.
It's not having the languagearound it, it's not
understanding what it really is.
I now know I was in comparison,I was feeling an insecurity.

(33:48):
This is something I can talk tomy partner about and give him
the opportunity to show up forme, to comfort me, to reassure
me.
But instead, I put up this giantwall and it really impacted both
of us.

SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
Yeah.
I I can recall a time I was in athreesome, and it was one of the
few times I'm not into like I'mqueer.
So if there's gonna be anotherwoman in the room and I have a
male partner, I'm like, I wantto be in on it, you know, and
and so typically I have notpreferred swap situations just

(34:25):
because like I'm like the morethe merrier, right?
All together in a little pile.
But this we did a swap, andjealousy was happening on
different levels that wasn'tbeing communicated about.
He was jealous, just he, youknow, he was just jealous, and
then I was with a partner, andhe used an endearing term that

(34:46):
belonged to just yeah, that's abig with her just to jab me a
little, and I wasn't in purpose.
Well, I mean, in in post inpost-mortem, oh when it was like
you said this thing, and thatlike you know, he kind of
admitted that, you know, thatwas that was the and it is an

(35:08):
interesting experience becauseusually by the time I'm into
group play, even if I get sparksof jealousy, I can eroticize it
and be like, Oh yeah, all right,well, let's get wet with that
one, and then deal with itlater.
But in that what it is reallyweird, you go like you go, it it
is almost like everything kindof goes dark, and you just go

(35:30):
inside and you get lost in thatemotion.
It is a clit shriveler.
That's what I would call it.
It's not getting me wet, it wasdefinitely doing the opposite.
And I was like, I need out ofthis situation, almost a panic.

SPEAKER_02 (35:44):
Yeah, you know, um, yeah, I can absolutely feel like
that.

SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
So that also brings me to and and going back to
that, negotiating ahead of time.
What is a what you the yes nosknow would be like, here are our
terms for each other.
Please don't use them withsomeone else during sex.
For some people, it's at a DOMsub dynamic.

(36:07):
It could be those words that youuse.
Maybe it's like you do not getto tell anyone else good girl,
whatever it is.
You get to say that ahead oftime.

SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
And I would also encourage, because what we're
talking about is here's thethings I don't want us to do or
you to do or me to do, whatever.
Really encourage the use of whatI call anchor behaviors or
anchor terms.
So these are behaviors, signals,words, whatever that you guys
share.
This is a part of coupleprivilege that you have.
And again, if you're aware ofit, you acknowledge it, it's

(36:37):
okay.
That you let each other know,hey, I'm still here with you.
Could be a, you know, specificwink, a specific word, term,
something that you just kind ofdrop in throughout, especially
if you're feeling disconnectedfrom your partner or you're
worried your partner might feeldisconnected from you.
It's it's the way of againreaffirming that connection

(36:58):
rather than only focusing onwhat we don't want.
Let's make sure we're spendingjust as much, if not more time,
on what we do want.
How do we want to feel?
What makes you rem what makesyou feel seen and heard and held
by me?
What makes you feel connected tome?
And let's create an anchorbehavior that we can carry into
these experiences together.

SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
I like that.
I love that idea.
Now I want to back up just alittle bit because we hopped
into bed when we talked aboutjealousy.
But let's get out of bed andrewind.
You've chosen your person.
You had your first little boutof jealousy at the predate.
You talked through it, you haveyour yesno maybes lined up.
What's the best way to set theatmosphere for your first three

(37:41):
some where?
What does it look like?
I'd love your advice on that.

SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
So, first of all, heavy acknowledgement for using
my nerd out on jealousytechnique to really get through
that jealousy and and use it forgood.
We'll include that link in theshow notes.
But yeah, the the ambiance, themood, the tools, like what's
going on.
Now remember, you haven't justchosen them, they've also chosen
you.
Make sure they're engaged inthis process.

(38:07):
What toys do they like?
Do they want to bring anyfavorites?
Let them know what you have.
Do they want to try any thingsthat you have that they haven't
tried before?
And vice versa.
As far as literally where,heavy, heavy recommendation, not
your own bed if you livetogether as a couple.
Unless you love emotionallandmines, I would really keep

(38:29):
it out of your home.
I would recommend a neutralthird-party, you know, hotel,
boutique vibe, like somethinglike a little Airbnb, something
that really you're creatingunique for this experience.
That's so because you don't knowwhat's going to happen.
You can do all this prep workand all this planning and all

(38:49):
this, you know, personaldevelopment, everything.
And it's still three humanbeings engaging and things are
going to happen and you don'tknow.
So really creating a containerthat is separate from your
day-to-day, especially for yourfirst or your early experiences,
is really key.
So again, getting input fromthat other person, making sure
they're included, you know, whatis it convenient for everyone to

(39:12):
get to?
Or, you know, what elements areimportant do we want to make
sure we have access to a showerbefore, during, and after?
What kind of, you know, lubes?
Does anyone have any allergies?
That's a big one.
To any specific, you know,prophylactics, lubes, things
like that.
Who's bringing what?
If someone has a penis, are theyresponsible for bringing their

(39:32):
own condoms?
If you know someone has a vulva,are they bringing dental dams?
What are the boundaries aroundthat too?
What are, again, the tools ofthe trade?
What are the tools that you'regoing to be using and making
sure it's available?
I recommend, especially ifyou're going into like a hotel
with something like that, if youhave, you know, like a squirt
blanket or something like that,that's really nice to be able to

(39:54):
bring.
Bring some familiar items aswell, and items that you know
and are used to playing withthat make you feel secure,
comfortable.
I love bringing a little liketreat for everyone, like a
little shared snack for someaftercare that's very
connective.
So again, allergies, you know,food.
Is anyone vegan?

(40:16):
Does anyone have any other, youknow, dietary restrictions or
requirements?
Things like that are really,really just nice touches to
think about.
Trying to think if I'm if I'mforgetting anything else.
I have music, lighting.
Oh my God, I have these friends.
God, they're hot.
The thought that they put intothe ambiance, they bring their
own programmable brand, thespecific brand.

(40:38):
I think there's multiple, butlike they control the lights.
They swap out all the lightbulbs in the in the room or
rooms that they're gonna beplaying in.
And they have like presets oflike sunset vibe or like stuff
like that.
That is so sexy.
A you know, well-placed red lacesomething over a lampshade also
works, but like, you know, thatlevel of attention to detail,

(40:59):
like really have fun with it.
Create an experience that issensual, meaning that it's gonna
engage all of your senses, andagain, on neutral territory is
the key.

SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
I love that scent candles for for me, scent
lighting music.
Scent lighting music.
Definitely sound, some sort ofmusic, right?
I love it.
Here's a question.
You brought up snacks.
Did you hear my stomach growlover that?
That was really bad.
Alcohol.
Let's talk about alcohol inthese scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 (41:36):
Okay, my my fantasy is like I prefer non-alcoholic,
non-substance thing experiencesto me that the connection
elicits all of the things that Iwould get from that anyway.
That being said, I recognizethat alcohol can help soothe

(41:58):
nerves for some people, etc.
But with that, know that it isit is impairing cognition at any
level, which impacts consent,which is something that I'm
surprised we haven't talkedabout yet.
But we should really dive intowhat that means.
Because again, consent isforeplay.
Don't think of it as this likechore.
Consent is sexy as fuck.

(42:19):
And I'll tell you what I mean.
But any level of inebriation,you know, soothing the nerves,
whatever, there are so many waysto soothe your nerves.
Those anchor behaviors canreally be beneficial.
If you're someone who you knowyou get tense, you're not sure,
you get those like first aidjitters, whatever it is.
Work with your partner to findsomething you guys can create
together.
Is there a song that helpssoothe you?

(42:41):
Is you know, is there a T thathelps something like that
ideally to not utilize alcoholor other substances that affect
your cognition?
You don't you don't need it.
I know it feels like you do, butI have a strong stance
personally on that.

SPEAKER_00 (42:58):
You don't I I love that I definitely had a period
in my life where I was like, I'mhaving a drink every time before
I have sex.
Yeah, what's going on?
And then I started raw doggingit, and I was like, oh, hello
orgasms.
You know, alcohol can it cankill the the pleasure your body

(43:21):
can feel, but I also think,again, as you said, there comes
a point where when I've beenwith people and I'm like, I
don't think you can trulyconsent to intimacy right now.
And I don't ever want to to takechances on that line where
someone's like, We did what?

(43:42):
Oh God, can you imagine?
So let's I I didn't start withconsent and may and and I I
think sort of with our yes, no,maybe some things are built into
it, but let's let really look atconsent right now, right?
Even though we're already theatmosphere, the atmosphere is
set.

unknown (43:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:59):
Well, but really it's great.

SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
Consent is a part of the whole process.
So you don't just like talkabout consent beforehand and
then you're good.
Like consent is a threadthroughout the entire process,
including the debriefafterwards.
So it's not a one and done, it'san ongoing conversation, just
like your relationship.
It's not like you like labelyour relationship, like, oh,
we're married, cool, we're done.
Like, no, this is an ongoingconversation that you're having

(44:24):
together for ideally the rest ofyour lives.
And and consent is an incredibleaphrodisiac if you really
understand it for what it is.
I like to use the example, like,you know, we think of consent
like, okay, I want to do thisthing.
Can I do this thing?
I want to kiss you, can I kissyou?
Like it's a permission slip.
It's not a permission slip, it'san invitation.

(44:44):
Hey, I'd really love to kissyou.
I'm just letting you know whatI'm interested in.
What are you interested in?
That opens it up.
So it's not this like, yes, no,I'm boxed into like satisfying
your need or like shutting youdown.
You're you've just told me whatyou're interested in.
Great.
I have that information.
Thank you.
What do I need?
Oh, wow.

(45:05):
This is an open conversation.
This is an invitation to share.
And then you can take it to thatnext step.
Don't just let me know you wantto kiss me.
How do you want to kiss me?
Where do you want to kiss me?
Now we're getting into informedconsent.
Now we're becoming storytellersin our sensual experience.
I would love to gracefully justdrag my lips across the edge of

(45:28):
your neck down to your shoulder.
What are you interested in?
Like, this is a totallydifferent level of
communication.
This is how we start employingconsent as a part of the
experience.
And again, framing it as aninvitation rather than a
permission slip.
Because if it's a permissionslip, then yeah, everyone's
like, I'm trying to getsomething from you.

(45:50):
If I don't get it, I'm gonna belike frustrated and
disappointed.
The other person's like, oh God,I don't want to like disappoint
you.
And you're also big, big pointhere, you're shutting yourself
off from possibility.
If the question is, can I kissyou?
Maybe they don't want to kissyou, but maybe they want to fuck
you.
Like you're missing out on awhole world of potential.
So just letting the other personknow what you're interested in,

(46:13):
and then inviting them to sharewith you what they're interested
in, that's a modern consentconversation.

SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
And it's a great way to practice sex talk.
I mean, like consent can be donein a sexy way, it can it can be
totally sex talk.
You gotta practice your voice.
Even when you're asking andthey're like, I'm not ready for
that yet.
It can be like, that's okay.

(46:40):
Just so you know, if you everare, feel free to make the move,
right?
I've definitely done that.
Here's your open invitation.
You're not ready for that,that's great.
I'm like, if you ever are, letme know.
And oftentimes leaving thatlittle invitation out there,
then you get really wonderfulsurprises when you show someone

(47:03):
you're the kind of person theydo want to do that thing with,
right?

SPEAKER_02 (47:06):
Well, I love what you said too, the not right now.
Like we think it's like yes, no.
It's like, well, not right now,but like, can we can we talk
about it again in like 10minutes?
Like, let's make out a littlebit and then let's see.
Yes, again.

SPEAKER_00 (47:18):
That happens a lot, right?
That it happens a lot, but youalso have to be okay with hard
no's.
Like you just gotta get okaywith it.
I'm like, it's not I I havegotten to the point where it
rarely do I take things a nopersonally.
If I'm like, I would like tostick my finger up your ass at
some point, and they're like,that's not gonna happen.

(47:39):
I'm like, cool.
Like, I don't get all feelingsabout it.

SPEAKER_02 (47:44):
No, exactly because if you're making it about you,
right?
You're missing like the wholepoint.
Again, if it's an invitation,you're saying, Hey, can you give
me the information I need toknow how to please you?
And if they're like, oh, hey,not that thing, fantastic.
And like, thank you so very muchfor taking care of yourself and
enabling me to support you inthat.
Because the last thing I wouldever want to do is do something

(48:08):
with someone that they didn'twant to do or weren't sure
about, or questions later.
Like, that is like one of mybiggest no, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
Like, no one wants to have their finger up your ass
and suddenly realize you don'twant to.
That's not a position.
No, that's not on my yes list.
It's like it's that's justterrible.
But so yeah, this is an ongoingconversation.
But we've set the stage, we'rein the bedroom.
Let's this is the heart of ourconversation.

(48:40):
Take us through, take us throughwhat needs to happen to have it
be successful, some key thingsfrom hello to goodbye.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (48:54):
Well, you've set the mood, right?
You've got the lights, themusic, and all the environmental
components are there.
Everyone knows where thebathroom is.
Everyone knows, you know, whatbarriers you're using, etc.
Ideally, you want to start withprogression.
It's not, we're not jumping,we're not shooting a porn.
This is not a performance.
This is about presence.

(49:15):
I really love breath.
I think breath is such abeautiful and underutilized
sensual tool.
Really, even before touch, likejust sit, maybe sit on the bed
or the couch or you know, whatwhatever the central piece is
for you.
Just breathe together for aminute.
Practice looking at each other,really holding eye contact.

(49:39):
You're actually synchronizingyour nervous systems when you do
this, because at least one ofyou is probably nervous.
So when you do this, you'reactually helping that person or
those people regulate.
You're what's you're doing,what's called co-regulation.
You're using your breath, tryand synchronize the breath if
you can, breathing in, out, getinto a shared rhythm.

(50:00):
And then you can take that intosome light touch.
Maybe it's just, you know, ahand massage, a shoulder
massage, just really gettingyour physicality used to each
other.
And something to really payattention to, especially if
you're a couple, you're used toa one-on-one dynamic.
It's really, really easy.
Do not beat yourself up, do notbeat your partner up with if

(50:22):
this happens, it probably will,at least for a moment.
It's really easy to slip intoanother one-on-one dynamic with
a new person or with yourpartner.
And the goal here is to makesure no one's feeling left out,
unless there's been a, hey, Ireally would like to just take a
breather and watch.
Beautiful.
We love that.
Here for it.
Unless that's really beenrequested or invited, we want to

(50:44):
make sure everyone's reallyconnected.
So utilizing touch, eye contact,those anchor behaviors we talked
about.
So whoever you're playing with,you're making sure that you're
connected to the other personwho may not be physically
involved in that moment.
It can be, you know, an armplaying with their hair if
you're more physically involvedwith another person.

(51:05):
There's all these different waysto make sure you're still
connected.
And again, those anchorbehaviors can help if you know
you notice your partner maybegetting stuck in a one-on-one
dynamic.
It's like, hey, sweet pea, youknow, Cheetos or whatever it is.
Oh, whatever the word.
I'm here too.
You know, that kind of thing asa loving invitation, not as a
jab.

(51:26):
You know, we don't want to beusing a pet name, for example,
as a resentful way of trying tomake our partner uncomfortable.
It's okay if we slip up a littlebit here and there in the
moment, especially if this isyour first.
Mistakes are welcome.
This is how you learn.
So make sure you have somebehaviors to support it.
But yeah, you've you'vesynchronized your breath.
You're creating some nice lighttouch.

(51:48):
Maybe you want to get a littleplayful with, you know, how
we're going to take our clothesoff.
Maybe no one's allowed to taketheir own clothes off.
Each person has to take somebodyelse's piece of clothing off.
It's called play.
Make it playful.
This isn't so serious.
You're not shooting aperformance.
You're present with each other.
Have fun.
How can you gamify kind of everystage and also alleviate the

(52:14):
pressure as well of like, youknow, maybe you've had an idea
of what this is supposed to looklike, or you're really attached
to like some version of anoutcome.
Do your best to release that andreally pay attention to the
other people you're playingwith, really, really connecting
with them.
Just because you've, you know,we can think the term

(52:36):
relationship escalator, youknow, referring to kind of like
how we date, we move in, we getmarried, da-da-da.
There's also a sexual escalator.
Well, we've kissed and now ourclothes are off, and I've, you
know, we've gone to what is it,like uh second base and third
base and all that stuff.
That's not really fun.
You've you've had intercourse,that doesn't mean you can't, you
know, have digital sex.

(52:58):
That doesn't mean you can't justbe making out for a little
while.
Like allow it to take shape.
There's not a destination,there's not a pass fail, there's
an experience.
This is a playful scene thatyou're engaging with.
And that's why I love the use ofred, yellow, green as a tool in
the scene.
Green means we're all goodbecause check-ins are important.

(53:21):
Again, like like we said,consent is this ongoing thing.
Check-ins are how we keepconsent alive within the
experience.
And it doesn't mean pause, how'severyone doing?
Circle up.
Like, that's not what I'mtalking about.
It's not a mood killer.
It's just a nice, well-placed.
Like, does that feel good?
Is this okay?
Would you like me to keep doingthat?
How are you feeling?
Just really nice again, like yousaid, practice your voice, like

(53:43):
nice light.
And the person can be like, Oh,yeah, green light, we're we're
full on.
Can be, you know, yellow.
Let's just like kind of ease offfor a little minute.
Doesn't mean like stop.
Like, let's keep making out, butmaybe we don't progress
anywhere.
We don't get, you know, fasteror more.
We're just kind of chilling inthis space right now.
Or it can be red.
You know what?
Actually, I need a minute.
I need a minute.
It may just be me.
I'm gonna take a minute.

(54:04):
You guys keep going, or it maylike, can we just pause and kind
of like circle up with ourbreathing again?
And just like I'm feeling alittle disconnected.
Can we all come together again?
Use those tools because again,it's not this, you know, step,
step, step.
All of these tools areapplicable at any point during
the scene.

SPEAKER_00 (54:21):
There you go, guys.
That's great advice.
And I, you know, keep it simple.
Play.
I'm sure you have a threesome.
You're like, I want to see thisposition and this position and
this person doing this, and thisperson.
Like the first time, it's reallyjust kind of getting to know
each other.
And then afterwards, if ifyou've decided you're going to

(54:42):
do it again and again, you canstart knocking off your bucket
list, right?
Yeah.
As a group talking about, like,yeah, I want this experience.
Are you guys into it?

SPEAKER_02 (54:53):
But this is the first yoga class is breathing.
You're not doing a headstand.

SPEAKER_00 (54:57):
Like, right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
All right.
And so now you're done.
You've all had fun.
I love to do a highs and lows,like, not you know, I love to be
like, what was the thing thatyou really enjoyed best about
that?
And then everybody gets like amoment to talk about it.
And then it's like, what wasstrange for you, or what felt

(55:18):
awkward that we could dodifferently next time?

SPEAKER_02 (55:21):
Yeah.
And then there's two stages tothis, right?
So I hundred percent I love alike an aftercare debrief.
Doesn't mean you have to likejump right into it, like, okay,
like everyone feels complete.
Like, let's talk about it.
Like, you know, again, webrought snacks, like, let's, you
know, we want to massage,whatever it is.
We're chilling, get some makesure everyone's drinking water.
Big key key key component, lots,lots and lots of water.

(55:43):
And that debrief, yes, when allthree of you are still together.
So, so wonderful.
That's phase one of the debrief.
If you're a couple, you're stillgonna want to do a debrief just
the two of you afterwards.
And then stage three of thethree-part process, because
again, everything's better inthrees.
You're gonna want to circleback, communicate to the the
third person, like, hey, is itokay if we check in with you in

(56:05):
like a week?
Does that feel good?
Or, you know, this weekend orwhatever it is.
Make sure they're cool withthat.
So you do your debrief as acouple after you've done the
three-person debrief, and thenyou talk to that third person.
Hey, is there anything thatmaybe came up for you afterwards
or we want to share us?
Would you like to see us again?
We'd love to see you again,stuff like that will be really
nice after there's a little bitof space, if it's a couple and a

(56:27):
third person.

SPEAKER_00 (56:29):
I love that.
And then everything feels good.
It feels like, okay, everyone'sdone their check in.
Even if you're not going to seeeach other again, you know that
you haven't left someone walkingaround out there carrying some
baggage, right?
So if you run into them orwhatever, everything's
everything's cool.
And that is such a respectfulway to go about doing your first

(56:52):
threesome.
I feel like we've done a goodjob covering this topic.

SPEAKER_02 (56:55):
Heck yeah.
It's gonna be so much morefulfilling than if you're just
gonna try and go with the flowand magic happens, and like
maybe, but most likely you'regonna be chasing the dragon.
This is the dragon, it has threesteps preparation, scene, and
post wrap-up aftercare.
Super important.

SPEAKER_00 (57:15):
Well, we are at that point now.
For my listeners who have nowlistened, you're like
ferociously taking notes.
Can you give them theirtakeaways for this episode?
They're getting, they're gonnalisten, they're gonna go to
their partner, maybe share thiswith their partner.
What are some things they canstart doing right now to make

(57:36):
those beginning steps towardstheir dream threesome?

unknown (57:40):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (57:41):
So remember, everything's better in threes.
So this is that three-partprocess, phase one.
You're gonna go to the link inthe show notes and so get that
free tool that I've got to helpyou understand your big why.
Step number one, big why.
If you do nothing else,understand that for yourself and
for your relationship.
And you're gonna explore yourdivs, your desires, your

(58:01):
intentions, and your boundaries.
Maybe you create a yes, no,maybe list.
And then you're ready to startkind of exploring places to meet
this elusive third.
Are you looking for a unicorn?
Are you looking for somebody youmight want to see more
consistently?
Go on those apps that arespecifically for, you know,
non-monogamous folks, kinksters,that sort of a thing.

(58:23):
Go to in-person events likemunches, workshops, that sort of
a thing.
Really look for people outsideof your immediate network, both
personally and professionally.
You're not gonna do this with aclose friend, you're not gonna
do this with a colleague.
Once you have that person,you're gonna meet them before
the big day or the big night.

(58:46):
You're gonna have ideally anin-person or at least a video
call, get together.
That's a vibe check.
Vibe check to make sureeveryone's feeling good,
everyone's attracted toeveryone, everyone's on board,
no one's bumping up againstanything or feels uncomfortable
or unsafe in any way.
And you're gonna prepare thenfor that, the big event, if

(59:07):
everyone's on the same page.
You're gonna talk about the dibsthat this third person has,
what's on their yes, no, maybelist.
And then you're gonna createyour, you know, your ambiance
shopping list, if you will.
You know, where is this gonnabe?
Not on home turf, not at theirplace, not at your place,
neutral third party, Airbnb,rental, hotel, something like

(59:29):
that, depending on what you'reinto, dungeon.
It really depends.
But neutral third-party grounds.
You're gonna decide who'sbringing what, what are the
important ambiance points, youknow, lighting, music, snacks,
toys, contraception.
Are you on the same page aboutpotential broken condoms, etc.,

(59:49):
etc.?
You're gonna ideally, I can'tbelieve we didn't say this, but
you're gonna ideally exchangeyour recent STI results and make
sure everyone's on the same pageabout that and have.
Have an exposure plan in place.
Now you're at the venue thatyou've chosen.
Everyone's brought the thingsthey agreed to bring.
You're going to settle into thespace, low stakes.

(01:00:11):
You're going to circle up, sitdown together.
You're going to engage yournervous systems together.
You're going to co-regulate withyour breath.
You're going to start with that,making sure everyone kind of
comes onto the same playingfield to start.
And it is a playing field.
You're going to take thepressure off.
You're going to play, gamifyevery step, if you will, every

(01:00:34):
experience.
How can this be fun?
How can this be playful?
This is not a performance.
So maybe again, we take eachother's clothes off.
No one gets to take off theirown clothes.
No one can take off the samepiece from another person that
they took off from somebodyelse.
Whatever it is, make it fun.
And you're going to use check-inpoints.
Maybe you have anchor behaviorsthat you've talked about with

(01:00:55):
your partner to make sure you'restill connected.
You use a red, yellow, greentraffic light system to do, you
know, check-ins throughout.
You do nice little, like, hey,how is this?
May I still go?
May I keep going?
Do you want me to do anythingdifferent?
Nice little check-ins throughoutthat don't stop the action, but
then just keep things reallyconnective.
And then you're into aftercare.

(01:01:17):
Everyone should feel complete.
It's not like, great, my partnerand I are done.
Godspeed.
Everyone needs to feel complete.
That doesn't necessarily meanorgasm.
It can, but everyone feelscomplete with the experience.
Now you're enjoying someaftercare.
You're cuddling.
Maybe there's some snacks.
There's lots of waterthroughout.

(01:01:38):
Everyone's drinking water.
It's great.
And you're talking about thehighs and lows.
What worked for you?
What would you have liked to dodifferently?
What were what's the highlightreal?
Can we like to check in withyou?
Are you comfortable if we followup with you this weekend, next
week, whatever it is?
Then you and your partner, afterthat three-person debrief, have

(01:01:59):
a two-person debrief.
Just the two of you.
What worked, what didn't.
Ideally, this is not, there'snot too much time between the
two, but a little distance, alittle space, so you have some
time to kind of marinate on yourown.
Then you have that two-persondebrief.
And then you check in with thatthird person for the third part
of the debrief.
You know, hey, we'd love to knowhow you're going.

(01:02:19):
Is that did anything else comeup since we spoke?
We'd love to see you again.
Would you, et cetera?
That sort of a thing.
And that's also something you'regoing to talk about with your
partner.
Is this something you guys wantto do again?
Whether with this person oranother person, or not?
That's okay.
But that's the three-stepprocess.
The prep, the event, and theaftercare.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:40):
There you go, guys.
You got it.
That that is a perfect guide.
I expect you all to go out andhave good threesomes now.
Exactly.
Successful threesomes.
Don't go in with the flow.
No, that's a great way to drown.
It's a great way to drown.
Thank you so much for that.
I feel like that was just sortof the best guide we could

(01:03:02):
possibly give in this single ina single episode because there
are so many sub-topics.
Can you do me a favor and tellmy listeners?
Do my listeners a favor and tellthem all the places they can
find you at.
I, of course, will be sendingout your guide, but I'm
confident they're going to wantto seek you out and find out
more about what you have tooffer.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:23):
Absolutely.
Well, I'm Ali Eisman onInstagram, and I'm
PassportToPleasure.
That's the number twoPassportToPleasure on all the
platforms and dot com.
So Substack, Instagram, TikTokwill be coming back shortly at a
little pause there.
Yeah, Substack and Instagram aremy two main platforms.
PassportToPleasure.com is whereyou can find all of my resources

(01:03:45):
as well, and YouTube as well.
I do a lot of very comprehensivecontent on YouTube as well.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:51):
Perfect.
You're gonna want to check herout.
I'm really interested in yourcontent on jealousy.
I'm gonna be running over thereto check it out.
So you guys should too.
Listeners, I mean, I feel goodabout this.
I hope you do too.
I think this was a greatconversation.
I am curious about what yourexperience are going to be after

(01:04:13):
this.
If you have thoughts on what wejust talked about, if you have
your own experiences you want toshare, make sure that you drop
them in the comment below thevideo.
If you're on my YouTube channelat TalkSexwithAnet.
If you are an audio listener,you can of course go over to
YouTube and drop your comment.
You can email me at Annette attalkswithanette.com and I will

(01:04:34):
do my best to get back to you.
And all of y'all can go down tothe notes section of this
episode.
There's a speak pipe voice link.
You can send me a voicemail ifthat's easier for you as well.
Thank you so much for joining metoday, Allie.
This was a great conversation.
Absolutely, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:53):
And remember, if you're in a couple, you're
already in a threesome.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:57):
Already in a threesome.
I agree.
So you're looking for afoursome.
Until next time, listeners, I'llsee you in the locker room.
Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:06):
Cheers.
Ringloop.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Ruthie's Table 4

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How to Have a Threesome That Brings You Closer—Not Blows You Up

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Ruthie's Table 4

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

How to Have a Threesome That Brings You Closer—Not Blows You Up

On Purpose with Jay Shetty