March 31, 2026 • 25 mins
When effluent systems are designed and run well, they support your whole farm.
In this episode of Talking Dairy, Debbie Care from AgVice and Shaun Hazelton from DairyNZ share insights into how to set your effluent system up to improve productivity, make the most out of valuable nutrients and protect your business over the long-term. This conversation looks at what’s involved in establishing good systems, what’s worth prioritising, and why autumn is a smart time to get things in shape.
Links mentioned in this episode and more:
- Get DairyNZ info about effluent management and operation
- Download the effluent management plan poster
- Find DairyNZ accredited effluent system design companies
- How does your effluent system stack up? Do your own Warrant of Fitness.
- Effluent Training Courses - DairyNZ
- Find out more about AgVice and Debbie Care
Have feedback or ideas for future episodes? Email us at talkingdairy@dairynz.co.nz
Stay up to date with advice, latest research, tools and resources. Read, browse, scroll, listen, or be there in person. Visit dairynz.co.nz/get-connected
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Kioda and welcome to Talking Dairy.
I'm your host Jack McGowan fromDairyNZ.
It's great to have you with us.
Today we're talking about a partof farming that isn't glamorous.
And yes, sometimes it doesstink.
But good effluent managementdoesn't have to.
In fact, when it's well designedand well run, it saves money,
protects the environment, andremoves a whole lot of stress.
(00:24):
So in this episode, we're hereto clear the air and help you
feel confident your effluentsystem is compliant,
future-proof, and built on theright advice.
We'll unpack the biggestchallenges we're seeing on farm,
what councils are telling us,and the simple steps you can
take to protect your business,especially with more farmers now
(00:44):
in a position to invest off theback of a good payout.
And because autumn is theperfect time to get ahead of
maintenance, drop pond levelsand make sure your gear is
running right, we'll talkthrough what to focus on now so
nothing turns into a biggerstink later.
Joining me are Sean Hazletonfrom Dari and Z and Debbie Kierr
from AgVice, two people who knoweffluent systems inside and out
(01:07):
and have seen just abouteverything that can go right and
very wrong on farm.
Let's get into it.
Tienakuru, Debbie and Sean,let's start with a little about
who you are and how you eachwork with and help farmers.
Debbie, we'll go to you first.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
So I started uh working in Effluent in DariNZ
Krogi 2004.
It was a job nobody wanted atthat stage, and I thought that I
would actually work myself outof a job at some stage, but no,
it just keeps coming.
And so set up my own business in2009 as an environmental
consultancy, but we do a lot ofwork in Effluent, seen a lot of
change over the last 25 years insort of systems and management,
(01:47):
but it's still a key issue forlots of people.
So it's still there, still needswork, and yeah, good to see some
positive changes happening aswell.
Thank you, Debbie.
And how about you, Sean?
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
My role here at Darian Z is a senior regional
policy advisor.
So often dealing with complianceand drafting new regulations at
national and regional level.
When it comes to Effluent, Iguess my background to a little
bit of time consulting usingDari and Z's resources.
Also, I spent a few years in thereal compliance space at a
regional council as well.
So I've seen thousands ofdifferent effluent systems over
(02:20):
my time as well.
So yeah, now it's good to beback at Dairy and Z doing some
work supporting farmers on thetools we've got, which is an
extensive list.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
All right.
To kick us off, Sean, can youtalk us through what you mean
when you talk about effluent onfarm?
What are the key components andwhat parts of the farm system
rely on good effluentmanagement?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
We've got a bit of a transition process where we were
traditionally going fromdischarge to water through
two-pond systems.
Now we're we're moving on to thecapturing and irrigation of
effluent to land.
It has also now moved on furtherfrom just having a yard and shed
collected into a sample pond andthen irrigated to managing
effluent from underpasses, feedpads, standoff pads, herd homes,
(03:06):
and a bunch of other things aswell.
The good news for farmers is theinvestment in effluent systems
generally correlate with theinvestment in infrastructure and
the proportional scale of yoursystem.
Yeah, the simpler system youhave, the simpler priced
effluent system you can get,hopefully.
As far as the good effluentmanagement, the leading thing I
(03:26):
would state is probably that allsystems can be managed and
maintained well.
But ensuring you've got awell-designed system to start
with really sets you up for agood 15-20 years of certainty
before you have to do anysignificant upgrades to those.
So making sure that that design,that advice matches the soil
type on farm, the infrastructureyou've got, and the staffing and
(03:49):
management capabilities thatyou've got, or the time that
they've actually got to manageeffluent as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Debbie, we know effluent is a resource.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
How valuable is it?
When Sean just mentioned, youknow, that we used to have a
two-pon discharge system.
We used to literally be flushingour nutrients down the
waterways.
So shifting to land applicationhas been a really strong thing
to happen within the industry.
It still treats the effluent interms of sunlight and stuff like
that on the land, but it's thenutrient content that is the
(04:19):
real clincher in effluent wheredepending on your system, you
have a lot of nitrogen, a lot ofphosphorus, and also a lot of
potassium.
So potassium is actually themost abundant nutrient in
effluent, and it's actually oneof the most expensive ones that
you can buy.
So if you're actually looking tosave money, nitrogen and
phosphorus get the big focusbecause they're, you know, sort
(04:39):
of environmental pollutants inthe media and things, but
potassium is actually the bestbang for buck on farm in terms
of saving your nutrients.
If we look at dairy shedeffluent, so this is just
without a feed pad or anythinglike that, we've probably got
between 0.25 to 0.45 kilogramsof nitrogen per meter cubed.
For phosphorus, it's quite a bitless, it's 0.03 to 0.06.
(05:03):
And then potassium is 0.3 to0.35 kilograms per meter
squared.
So if we sort of multiply thatup on a typical dairy farm, so
let's go say for 400 cows,you're probably producing
between four and six thousandcubes of effluent per year.
So depending on your water useand your rainfall.
So if you've got more water,it's a bit more dilute, less
(05:24):
water, you've got a bit morenutrient in there.
Working with those ranges, itmeans from nitrogen we could
have from 1 to 2.5 tons of Navailable from effluent.
Phosphorus, 120 to 300 kg, soyou know, not quite so good
there.
And potassium sort of 1.2 to 2tons.
And so if we compare that to afertilizer, so if we're going to
(05:45):
look at the nutrients and youknow, we look like what we'd do
with our fertilizer, wecertainly wouldn't be putting it
in one pile in the ground andjust letting it seep away, would
we?
No.
So if we're managing thosenutrients, it's sort of 5 to 10k
worth of fertilizer each year.
So it's one of the few things wecan do sometimes where you get a
return for your investment.
So think of it not as somethingto dispose of, but it's
(06:08):
effectively the cows have eatenthe nutrient, you've paid for it
in terms of grass, and then itcomes out and voila, we've got
some fertilizer.
The key to actually being ableto capture all that nutrient
value is to look at your timingand putting it on so that plants
are actually in a position totake the nutrients up so you're
not running off.
It's just sitting in that rootzone.
(06:28):
So you've got a safedistribution, but you've also
got some economic return and youcan grow some grass to make some
more milk to make some morenutrients.
So it's a pretty good cycle.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Sean, you mentioned Dairy and Z tools and resources.
Can you talk us through thoseand also industry initiatives
that help farmers design andmanage good effluent systems?
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
Probably far too many to keep track of.
I'm still picking up new ones onour website every now and then.
But if I could try my best tocategorize them all, you've got
three separate categories.
So you've got the industrystandards and good design
practice.
So they're a bunch of documentsand standards which Darian's has
developed to support theindustry.
Probably the stuff that farmersdon't see in the front end, but
(07:11):
it's stuff that the realprofessionals leverage on to
make sure they design a systemthat'll comply with all the
regional council requirements.
You've got the farmer resourcesand tools that we provide.
So the likes of the DairyAffluence storage calculator for
sizing how much storage youneed, irrigation bucket tests.
So we have some nice Excelsheets that farmers can use to
(07:33):
estimate or to measure theirirrigation.
And then a bunch of farmers'guides on how to use specific
types of systems, whether you'vegot low-rate irrigation, whether
you've got a traditionaltraveling irrigator, or
different types of storage.
The other thing that's hopefullywe'll talk about a bit later,
but is the training and farmersupport that we provide, as far
(07:54):
as the likes of the Fort andAccreditation Program and Warren
of Fitness program.
So those are two services thatDairy and Z developed for the
industry to make sure thatfarmers have those right people
to go to.
So if they're looking for anaudit of an existing system or
looking to upgrade and get a newsystem, there's those right
people that are back in behindindustry standards there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
Okay.
And Debbie, I presume you areone of the right people.
Ha ha.
I hope so.
Been pretty involved in a lot ofthose processes that Sean was
just talking about.
You've been involved, as yousaid, in effluent management
industry for a long time.
And you talked about how oursort of approach has changed.
What's driven that shift?
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
To be fair, there's been quite a bit of an increase
in sort of social andenvironmental expectations in
that time and a recognition thatwe sort of need to look after
those things more.
And so you've sort of got thaton one end, and then at the
other end, we've got we can getbetter bang for buck by um using
the nutrients that are in it andthen getting it treated and
(08:57):
using it to grow grass.
When I sort of saw the Toupondischarge treatment thing, I was
like, oh god, I wasn't aroundwhen that was done, but I was,
and there was actually quite afew.
I was just looking at the deckmanual from 2006 the other day,
and you know, that was talkingabout coupon systems and
discharge, and it's like what awaste that is.
And so over time we've sort ofshifted to fully containing
(09:20):
effluent.
It's got to be captured andcontained, sort of one of the
principles of the documents thatSean was talking about.
And then land application ratherthan discharge.
So we're putting it on at a timeand a depth and a rate that
suits plants and gets a growth.
And then with some of the sortof more complex systems, I
suppose, you know, if you'rejust sort of a grass-only
system, there's no need forsolid separation, but we've gone
(09:43):
into feed pads and herd homesand things like that.
So there's a whole lot moreeffluent caught, and you're
getting a whole lot more solidsin that.
So what do you do with it?
So we've ended up with, youknow, lots of different solid
separation systems, which againcreates two products.
Then we've got a solids that areseparated, and that can be
anything from sort of a slurryfrom a weeping wall to something
(10:06):
that's really fluffy from ascrew press.
So you've got to sort of thinkabout how you manage those.
And they're really good productsfor cropping, for building
organic matter.
That has a real positive effect,especially on some of our young
soils.
And probably the other big oneis going to synthetically lined
ponds.
There never used to be anyoverview, I suppose, whether
(10:26):
ponds were leaking or not, andthings like that.
And so that's something thatrecently, sort of probably the
last 10 years, has become quiteforward in everyone's thinking.
And, you know, is our pondsealed?
Are we keeping our nutrientswithin the system and not sort
of leaking into the environmentthere?
So this the advent of sealedstorage ponds has actually
created a really good way to getthose nutrients in and recycle
(10:49):
them out.
SPEAKER_02 (10:50):
Sean, you talk to councils across the country.
From your perspective, what arethe common challenges farmers
are facing with effluent systemsand what are the key things they
can do to stay on the right sideof compliance?
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
Some of the statistics that you see from
councils and also in the mediacan look pretty grim.
But the one thing I would say iscouncils are starting to
prioritize inspections based onthose higher-risk farms, farms
where they've seennon-compliance before, or
they've got concerns around theinfrastructure as far as storage
volumes or over-irrigation orslightly higher irrigation than
(11:24):
it should be.
The past few years we'vedefinitely seen rates of
non-compliance slightlyincrease.
A lot of these are also tendingto be from technical
non-compliance type issues asthe bars increasing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
So, what's technical non-compliance?
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Good question.
So technical non-compliance area lot of those conditions which
you might be asked to record,such as are you recording
irrigation events?
Are you doing a bucket test andproviding those records to
council to show you're complyingwith 25 mil application
maximums, for example?
They may not be causing activeenvironmental issues, but it's a
(12:00):
condition put in your consentyou've got to meet.
So that's often seen assomething that can be missed
annually.
The other thing that we'restarting to see is there's a lot
of the common trends lie down tothe maintenance and upkeep of
those systems.
So whatever type of systemyou've got, making sure that
you're maintaining yourirrigator, you're managing
(12:20):
solids the best you can, thosesort of things correlate to
usually a less risk system.
One example that I did a fewyears ago was we ran an event on
a farm just doing a normalbucket test, and we had the
tyres flat, we had the bearingscollapsed, we had the nozzles
cut, and it was applying 35millimeters on average over that
(12:42):
paddock.
Just by fixing all those thingsand restarting the irrigator, it
ran down to 18 mils when it wasat 35 before.
So just those simple maintenancetasks are key to keeping you in
the in the good books and alsobetter utilizing that nutrients
as Debbie's highlighted before.
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
What I heard you say there was that councils are
increasingly focusing on therisk farms, so the stats risk
farms, so the stats don'tnecessarily reflect the real
risk across all farms.
And also you talked about theimportance of crossing the T's
and dotting the I's on the sortof paperwork side, which is like
where the technicalnon-compliance comes in, as well
(13:19):
as maintenance.
That be right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:21):
Yeah, and I think even when you call it technical
non-compliance, a lot of it'sgood from a liability
perspective.
SPEAKER_02 (13:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
The Resource Management Act that has recently
been amended and the fines havegone up.
So here's a company, I think thethe maximum fine is$10 million
now.
So there's a lot of liability.
And if you've got the paperworkbehind your good practice that
you're already doing, that meanswhen there's a slip-up or
something goes wrong, it'salways that one event or one
occasion when something goeswrong.
It's not through negligence.
(13:49):
You can demonstrate and you'vegot the records, you've got the
evidence behind you saying thisis how I run my system.
And it was a true one-offsituation, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Now, Debbie, you see a range of systems in your
consultancy work.
What are the common features ofthe effluence systems that
consistently perform well?
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
It's a combination of two things.
We have people and then we havea system, and you can have the
best system and the worstpeople, and that's not going to
work, or you can have the worstsystem and the best people, and
that'll work.
So sort of putting those twothings together, sometimes it's
not actually, do you have a partto your effluence system, but
it's having a management planthat includes things like Sean
was just talking about, likeyour record keeping and how do I
(14:30):
operate my system?
If someone comes on when I trainthem, do I have something that I
can take them through the systemwith?
You know, it just might be ontheir phone in a series of
pictures or or something likethat, but actually being able to
have your whole team competentin operating your system and
knowing when things are goingwrong.
A really good thing is to have areally good amount of storage.
If you've got just the rightamount of storage, you quite
(14:53):
often, especially with theweather events we've seen this
year and last year, you backyourself into corners.
So you've got to irrigate everyday.
And, you know, we get busy incarving, people get tired, they
make mistakes.
So if you're looking at storageas part of your sort of autumn
thinking, don't do it as smallas you can have it.
Actually build in someflexibility so that you don't
irrigate for eight weeks duringcarving or something like that.
(15:15):
And just when the systems aremade simple, even though we're
using technology, but themanagement's simple and you give
everyone breathing space, thenyou're not getting silly
mistakes made.
Autumn, a great time to do someof that maintenance work and
making sure that your system'sworking properly.
You've actually got to havegood, reliable irrigation
equipment.
And so, you know, whether it's atraveler or a pivot or pods, you
(15:38):
know, look at it, measure it,make sure that it is actually
spreading as evenly as it canand at the best rate.
I was measuring some on farm acouple of weeks ago and uh it's
on its fastest rate.
But because it had a few thingswrong with it, you know, its
fastest rate was actually veryslow.
And so having all of thosethings cleaned up and ready to
go.
And also what Sean was talkingabout was compliance.
(16:00):
Having fail safes and monitoringis getting key.
High-level pump alarms, pumpshutoffs when the irrigator gets
to the end of its run.
You know, some means of turningthings off when they stop moving
is just crucial these days.
Something else that's reallygood is flow monitoring because
then you know how much you'reputting on for each irrigation
(16:20):
event.
So if we get a nutrient testdone, we can then work out how
much nutrient we put on.
So you can get quite strategicin your placement and your
management.
And so looking at all of thosethings, you've got good storage,
good management, and then you'reusing the nutrients right,
you're going to have a systemthat performs well.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
There's something called an effluent waf.
Ah, yes.
What's that?
And what are the benefits ofgetting one?
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Basically, a WAF is a risk assessment or a health
check on your effluent system.
So if council comes out, they'lllook at symptoms of things
wrong.
The WAF sort of sits behind thatand it looks at the whole system
and looks at the potential risk.
One that would get missed heapsis what I call oval pipes.
And so you've got a pipe andit's going oval on the ends.
(17:05):
And if that gets left, itactually gets really weak at the
top.
So you know, when you bent yourcredit card, when it's passed,
it's used by date, and you getthose white lines.
That's what happens to thepipes.
And that's actually one of thehigher risk things we see
because they burst.
And so it's sort of quiteinteresting, you know, it's just
such a little thing.
But when we're talking aboutrisk, it's a completely
(17:25):
different thing to saying, ohgosh, you've done that, you
know, and that's a symptom ofthose things.
We start at the shared, makesure that all effluent is
captured and contained withinthere, so you know, got no
broken nibbing, no crackconcrete, that sort of thing.
Look at pumps and pipes, so wemeasure those as well.
So we measure flow and pressureof the pump to get an idea of
how it's actually performing.
(17:46):
And soft things like if you'rewalking on the ground and it's
really bumpy under your feet, soit's obviously quite compacted,
it got really wet and sort ofstock on it at some stage, you
know, that's going to have noabsorption.
So you're thinking about thosethings, and then listening to a
pump.
I mean, if a pump sort of soundsbad, it's not performing that
well.
So there's sort of some softerstuff as well.
(18:07):
We look at the storage capacitybased on the farm system, um,
irrigator performance, pondcondition.
We walk the pond, we're lookingfor any signs of seepage, holes
and liners, that sort of thing.
We do a bucket test and flow andpressure test on the irrigator
or the applicator.
And so that gives us the ratesfor the soil type, what
compliance risk there might bewith that, depending whether
(18:28):
you're in a permitted activityframework or a consented
framework.
And so that's the risk sitsaround that as well.
So that's what you've got tomeet for your system, depending
on what sort of regulatoryregime you're in.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
You've talked about what happens in the effluent
WAF.
Who does these and how can afarmer organise one?
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
So one of the things Sean talked about earlier was
some of the programs that Dairyand Z had developed to give
farmers confidence in the ruralprofessionals that were going on
farm.
The WAF certification programwas one of those.
There was lots of trainedprofessionals throughout the
country, and they're actuallylisted on the WAF assessment
website.
So you can go and have a lookthere and see who's in your area
(19:08):
and where those people operateas well.
And it's a really good time toget a WAF done about now.
Things are a bit quieter onfarm, so you've got time to have
a discussion with the personthat's coming on farm, and then
you can actually implement someof the recommendations that
might be made through thatprocess.
SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
Okay, so farmers can find someone to do an effluent
WAF for them on our website.
They can just go into Daisy orthe search bar and type effluent
waf and that'll come up.
And then if you follow thatlink, you'll find out who works
in your area.
Cool.
Thank you.
Now, Sean, when farmers arelooking at upgrades or new
infrastructure, which some ofthem might be now, what's the
(19:46):
value in using effluent systemdesign accredited advisors?
How does that help ensure thesystem is fit for purpose and
future-proof?
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Like I highlighted earlier, there's a bunch of
stuff that Darian Z has done inthe background that farmers
often don't see, but one of theindustry tools is the Farm Dairy
Effluence System AccreditedAdvisors Program.
So something that Darian Zdeveloped, similar to the MTA
assured logo that you get whenyou're looking to find somewhere
(20:15):
to get your car serviced orwarranted.
So it provides that same levelof value.
I think the companies andprofessionals that operate under
the accreditation program, itensures that they are designing
and building systems tailored toyour farm's needs and any future
goals you may have down theline.
The work that they do alignswith council's compliance and
(20:36):
regional council rules and alsooperates under those industry
assurance standards and designpractices.
So those accredited advisors areoperating under what we call
best practice.
But it also gives you that pointof contact.
If you look for the green tick,you know that you're going to
get confidence in the qualityand reliability of service, and
that hopefully that service ispretty consistent across all the
(20:59):
companies that have the greentick or the accreditation tick
beside them.
If you want to try to find them,they're also on our um DairyNZ
website as well.
So we've got a link for them,and that's a service that
Irrigation NZ runs and trainsand certifies those accredited
advisors.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Okay, Sean, you've talked to us about the benefits
of using effluent system designaccredited advisors.
So when a farmer gets in touchwith one of these or is you
working with one, what questionsshould they be asking?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Yeah, thanks, Jack.
I think as far as for designing,developing new systems and new
types of storage, the big thingthat you need to chat with the
designers about is just askingthose leading questions.
So what is the maintenancerequired with this type of
system?
How many days am I going to haveto be irrigating on average a
year?
We often see a lot of systemsbeing installed and designed.
(21:50):
And I don't think the farmersare actually fully aware of what
they've signed themselves up to.
We can see some storagecalculations that assume 350
days of irrigation.
Irrigation.
In reality, I don't think afarmer has the time or capacity
often to do that.
So you've really got to beasking those leading questions.
What's the maintenancerequirements?
How many days do I have toirrigate?
(22:12):
How many hours do I have toirrigate when I am irrigating?
And then considering how thatworks with your staffing
arrangements on farm as well.
Because not everyone has all dayto manage effluent.
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
Both of you have talked about autumn being a
great time to get on top ofeffluent.
And that there's lots ofpractical checks and jobs
farmers should be doing now tohelp avoid issues in winter and
make next spring run moresmoothly.
If each of you could just giveyour top one or two.
SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
From my perspective, I mentioned I spent quite a few
years in the regional councilcompliance team.
The big thing for me that standsout is having a management plan,
downloading one of Darian Z'smanagement plan posters,
sticking it in the cow shed orclose to your irrigation system,
and just working through all ofthose checklist items to make
sure that all the staff andpeople operating the system have
(23:02):
clarity on the rules, clarity onhow the system's run and what
risk to look out for.
The big thing from that is theliability side of things.
If something goes wrong, you'vegot all the processes and
procedures to fix whateverissues pop up.
And also it looks nice whenyou're a council compliance
officer turning up on farm andyou can just see right in front
(23:23):
of you all the things ticked offand tickety-boo.
SPEAKER_02 (23:26):
And surely, Sean, it also prevents things going
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Hopefully, or allows you to identify them early on.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
Reduces the risk, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
All right, Debbie, what's yours?
For me, it's storage capacity.
So we're in April now, autumn'sjust happening.
Sorry, we're in March andautumn's happening, but our
source temperatures are stillwarm.
So actually irrigating theeffluent from the pond.
So A, you're getting nutrientbang for buck because we get it
sort of autumn flush with a bitof water and a bit of
temperature still.
And so actually using thatnutrient before winter so that
(23:56):
you get your bang for buck, butthen the other side of that is
going into winter with a lowpond so that when we get big
rainfall events or when thesoils are just too cold to
irrigate to, you've got storagein that pond to manage it and
not have to apply in wet soilsand get yourself in trouble.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
Or waste the very valuable nutrients as well.
Absolutely.
All right, well, thank you both.
That brings us to the end oftoday's episode.
A huge thank you to Sean andDebbie for sharing their
knowledge and for helping us allkeep effluent management from
turning into a bigger stink thanit needs to be.
Remember, good advice, gooddesign, and proactive management
(24:33):
make all the difference.
Time your irrigation to get thebest value out of the nutrients,
check your irrigatorperformance, tidy up any weak
spots in your system, and ifyou're looking to invest, make
sure you're working with theright experts.
To learn more or find accreditedadvisors, check out the effluent
management information on theDairyNZ website and there will
(24:54):
be links in the show notes aswell.
Thanks for listening and we'llcatch you next time.
Matewa.
If you'd like to get connectedwith DairyNZ's latest advice,
research, tools, and resources,whether it's reading, scrolling,
listening, or in person, you canvisit dairynz.co.nz forward
(25:17):
slash get dash connected anddon't forget to hit follow to
keep up to date with our latestepisodes.
As always, if you have anyfeedback on this podcast or have
some ideas for future topics orguests, please email us at
talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz.
Thanks for listening and we'llcatch you next time on Talking
Dairy.
Kioda and welcome to Talking Dairy.
I'm your host Jack McGowan fromDairyNZ.
It's great to have you with us.
Today we're talking about a partof farming that isn't glamorous.
And yes, sometimes it doesstink.
But good effluent managementdoesn't have to.
In fact, when it's well designedand well run, it saves money,
protects the environment, andremoves a whole lot of stress.
(00:24):
So in this episode, we're hereto clear the air and help you
feel confident your effluentsystem is compliant,
future-proof, and built on theright advice.
We'll unpack the biggestchallenges we're seeing on farm,
what councils are telling us,and the simple steps you can
take to protect your business,especially with more farmers now
(00:44):
in a position to invest off theback of a good payout.
And because autumn is theperfect time to get ahead of
maintenance, drop pond levelsand make sure your gear is
running right, we'll talkthrough what to focus on now so
nothing turns into a biggerstink later.
Joining me are Sean Hazletonfrom Dari and Z and Debbie Kierr
from AgVice, two people who knoweffluent systems inside and out
(01:07):
and have seen just abouteverything that can go right and
very wrong on farm.
Let's get into it.
Tienakuru, Debbie and Sean,let's start with a little about
who you are and how you eachwork with and help farmers.
Debbie, we'll go to you first.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
So I started uh working in Effluent in DariNZ
Krogi 2004.
It was a job nobody wanted atthat stage, and I thought that I
would actually work myself outof a job at some stage, but no,
it just keeps coming.
And so set up my own business in2009 as an environmental
consultancy, but we do a lot ofwork in Effluent, seen a lot of
change over the last 25 years insort of systems and management,
(01:47):
but it's still a key issue forlots of people.
So it's still there, still needswork, and yeah, good to see some
positive changes happening aswell.
Thank you, Debbie.
And how about you, Sean?
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
My role here at Darian Z is a senior regional
policy advisor.
So often dealing with complianceand drafting new regulations at
national and regional level.
When it comes to Effluent, Iguess my background to a little
bit of time consulting usingDari and Z's resources.
Also, I spent a few years in thereal compliance space at a
regional council as well.
So I've seen thousands ofdifferent effluent systems over
(02:20):
my time as well.
So yeah, now it's good to beback at Dairy and Z doing some
work supporting farmers on thetools we've got, which is an
extensive list.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
All right.
To kick us off, Sean, can youtalk us through what you mean
when you talk about effluent onfarm?
What are the key components andwhat parts of the farm system
rely on good effluentmanagement?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
We've got a bit of a transition process where we were
traditionally going fromdischarge to water through
two-pond systems.
Now we're we're moving on to thecapturing and irrigation of
effluent to land.
It has also now moved on furtherfrom just having a yard and shed
collected into a sample pond andthen irrigated to managing
effluent from underpasses, feedpads, standoff pads, herd homes,
(03:06):
and a bunch of other things aswell.
The good news for farmers is theinvestment in effluent systems
generally correlate with theinvestment in infrastructure and
the proportional scale of yoursystem.
Yeah, the simpler system youhave, the simpler priced
effluent system you can get,hopefully.
As far as the good effluentmanagement, the leading thing I
(03:26):
would state is probably that allsystems can be managed and
maintained well.
But ensuring you've got awell-designed system to start
with really sets you up for agood 15-20 years of certainty
before you have to do anysignificant upgrades to those.
So making sure that that design,that advice matches the soil
type on farm, the infrastructureyou've got, and the staffing and
(03:49):
management capabilities thatyou've got, or the time that
they've actually got to manageeffluent as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Debbie, we know effluent is a resource.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
How valuable is it?
When Sean just mentioned, youknow, that we used to have a
two-pon discharge system.
We used to literally be flushingour nutrients down the
waterways.
So shifting to land applicationhas been a really strong thing
to happen within the industry.
It still treats the effluent interms of sunlight and stuff like
that on the land, but it's thenutrient content that is the
(04:19):
real clincher in effluent wheredepending on your system, you
have a lot of nitrogen, a lot ofphosphorus, and also a lot of
potassium.
So potassium is actually themost abundant nutrient in
effluent, and it's actually oneof the most expensive ones that
you can buy.
So if you're actually looking tosave money, nitrogen and
phosphorus get the big focusbecause they're, you know, sort
(04:39):
of environmental pollutants inthe media and things, but
potassium is actually the bestbang for buck on farm in terms
of saving your nutrients.
If we look at dairy shedeffluent, so this is just
without a feed pad or anythinglike that, we've probably got
between 0.25 to 0.45 kilogramsof nitrogen per meter cubed.
For phosphorus, it's quite a bitless, it's 0.03 to 0.06.
(05:03):
And then potassium is 0.3 to0.35 kilograms per meter
squared.
So if we sort of multiply thatup on a typical dairy farm, so
let's go say for 400 cows,you're probably producing
between four and six thousandcubes of effluent per year.
So depending on your water useand your rainfall.
So if you've got more water,it's a bit more dilute, less
(05:24):
water, you've got a bit morenutrient in there.
Working with those ranges, itmeans from nitrogen we could
have from 1 to 2.5 tons of Navailable from effluent.
Phosphorus, 120 to 300 kg, soyou know, not quite so good
there.
And potassium sort of 1.2 to 2tons.
And so if we compare that to afertilizer, so if we're going to
(05:45):
look at the nutrients and youknow, we look like what we'd do
with our fertilizer, wecertainly wouldn't be putting it
in one pile in the ground andjust letting it seep away, would
we?
No.
So if we're managing thosenutrients, it's sort of 5 to 10k
worth of fertilizer each year.
So it's one of the few things wecan do sometimes where you get a
return for your investment.
So think of it not as somethingto dispose of, but it's
(06:08):
effectively the cows have eatenthe nutrient, you've paid for it
in terms of grass, and then itcomes out and voila, we've got
some fertilizer.
The key to actually being ableto capture all that nutrient
value is to look at your timingand putting it on so that plants
are actually in a position totake the nutrients up so you're
not running off.
It's just sitting in that rootzone.
(06:28):
So you've got a safedistribution, but you've also
got some economic return and youcan grow some grass to make some
more milk to make some morenutrients.
So it's a pretty good cycle.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Sean, you mentioned Dairy and Z tools and resources.
Can you talk us through thoseand also industry initiatives
that help farmers design andmanage good effluent systems?
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
Probably far too many to keep track of.
I'm still picking up new ones onour website every now and then.
But if I could try my best tocategorize them all, you've got
three separate categories.
So you've got the industrystandards and good design
practice.
So they're a bunch of documentsand standards which Darian's has
developed to support theindustry.
Probably the stuff that farmersdon't see in the front end, but
(07:11):
it's stuff that the realprofessionals leverage on to
make sure they design a systemthat'll comply with all the
regional council requirements.
You've got the farmer resourcesand tools that we provide.
So the likes of the DairyAffluence storage calculator for
sizing how much storage youneed, irrigation bucket tests.
So we have some nice Excelsheets that farmers can use to
(07:33):
estimate or to measure theirirrigation.
And then a bunch of farmers'guides on how to use specific
types of systems, whether you'vegot low-rate irrigation, whether
you've got a traditionaltraveling irrigator, or
different types of storage.
The other thing that's hopefullywe'll talk about a bit later,
but is the training and farmersupport that we provide, as far
(07:54):
as the likes of the Fort andAccreditation Program and Warren
of Fitness program.
So those are two services thatDairy and Z developed for the
industry to make sure thatfarmers have those right people
to go to.
So if they're looking for anaudit of an existing system or
looking to upgrade and get a newsystem, there's those right
people that are back in behindindustry standards there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
Okay.
And Debbie, I presume you areone of the right people.
Ha ha.
I hope so.
Been pretty involved in a lot ofthose processes that Sean was
just talking about.
You've been involved, as yousaid, in effluent management
industry for a long time.
And you talked about how oursort of approach has changed.
What's driven that shift?
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
To be fair, there's been quite a bit of an increase
in sort of social andenvironmental expectations in
that time and a recognition thatwe sort of need to look after
those things more.
And so you've sort of got thaton one end, and then at the
other end, we've got we can getbetter bang for buck by um using
the nutrients that are in it andthen getting it treated and
(08:57):
using it to grow grass.
When I sort of saw the Toupondischarge treatment thing, I was
like, oh god, I wasn't aroundwhen that was done, but I was,
and there was actually quite afew.
I was just looking at the deckmanual from 2006 the other day,
and you know, that was talkingabout coupon systems and
discharge, and it's like what awaste that is.
And so over time we've sort ofshifted to fully containing
(09:20):
effluent.
It's got to be captured andcontained, sort of one of the
principles of the documents thatSean was talking about.
And then land application ratherthan discharge.
So we're putting it on at a timeand a depth and a rate that
suits plants and gets a growth.
And then with some of the sortof more complex systems, I
suppose, you know, if you'rejust sort of a grass-only
system, there's no need forsolid separation, but we've gone
(09:43):
into feed pads and herd homesand things like that.
So there's a whole lot moreeffluent caught, and you're
getting a whole lot more solidsin that.
So what do you do with it?
So we've ended up with, youknow, lots of different solid
separation systems, which againcreates two products.
Then we've got a solids that areseparated, and that can be
anything from sort of a slurryfrom a weeping wall to something
(10:06):
that's really fluffy from ascrew press.
So you've got to sort of thinkabout how you manage those.
And they're really good productsfor cropping, for building
organic matter.
That has a real positive effect,especially on some of our young
soils.
And probably the other big oneis going to synthetically lined
ponds.
There never used to be anyoverview, I suppose, whether
(10:26):
ponds were leaking or not, andthings like that.
And so that's something thatrecently, sort of probably the
last 10 years, has become quiteforward in everyone's thinking.
And, you know, is our pondsealed?
Are we keeping our nutrientswithin the system and not sort
of leaking into the environmentthere?
So this the advent of sealedstorage ponds has actually
created a really good way to getthose nutrients in and recycle
(10:49):
them out.
SPEAKER_02 (10:50):
Sean, you talk to councils across the country.
From your perspective, what arethe common challenges farmers
are facing with effluent systemsand what are the key things they
can do to stay on the right sideof compliance?
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
Some of the statistics that you see from
councils and also in the mediacan look pretty grim.
But the one thing I would say iscouncils are starting to
prioritize inspections based onthose higher-risk farms, farms
where they've seennon-compliance before, or
they've got concerns around theinfrastructure as far as storage
volumes or over-irrigation orslightly higher irrigation than
(11:24):
it should be.
The past few years we'vedefinitely seen rates of
non-compliance slightlyincrease.
A lot of these are also tendingto be from technical
non-compliance type issues asthe bars increasing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
So, what's technical non-compliance?
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Good question.
So technical non-compliance area lot of those conditions which
you might be asked to record,such as are you recording
irrigation events?
Are you doing a bucket test andproviding those records to
council to show you're complyingwith 25 mil application
maximums, for example?
They may not be causing activeenvironmental issues, but it's a
(12:00):
condition put in your consentyou've got to meet.
So that's often seen assomething that can be missed
annually.
The other thing that we'restarting to see is there's a lot
of the common trends lie down tothe maintenance and upkeep of
those systems.
So whatever type of systemyou've got, making sure that
you're maintaining yourirrigator, you're managing
(12:20):
solids the best you can, thosesort of things correlate to
usually a less risk system.
One example that I did a fewyears ago was we ran an event on
a farm just doing a normalbucket test, and we had the
tyres flat, we had the bearingscollapsed, we had the nozzles
cut, and it was applying 35millimeters on average over that
(12:42):
paddock.
Just by fixing all those thingsand restarting the irrigator, it
ran down to 18 mils when it wasat 35 before.
So just those simple maintenancetasks are key to keeping you in
the in the good books and alsobetter utilizing that nutrients
as Debbie's highlighted before.
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
What I heard you say there was that councils are
increasingly focusing on therisk farms, so the stats risk
farms, so the stats don'tnecessarily reflect the real
risk across all farms.
And also you talked about theimportance of crossing the T's
and dotting the I's on the sortof paperwork side, which is like
where the technicalnon-compliance comes in, as well
(13:19):
as maintenance.
That be right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:21):
Yeah, and I think even when you call it technical
non-compliance, a lot of it'sgood from a liability
perspective.
SPEAKER_02 (13:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
The Resource Management Act that has recently
been amended and the fines havegone up.
So here's a company, I think thethe maximum fine is$10 million
now.
So there's a lot of liability.
And if you've got the paperworkbehind your good practice that
you're already doing, that meanswhen there's a slip-up or
something goes wrong, it'salways that one event or one
occasion when something goeswrong.
It's not through negligence.
(13:49):
You can demonstrate and you'vegot the records, you've got the
evidence behind you saying thisis how I run my system.
And it was a true one-offsituation, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Now, Debbie, you see a range of systems in your
consultancy work.
What are the common features ofthe effluence systems that
consistently perform well?
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
It's a combination of two things.
We have people and then we havea system, and you can have the
best system and the worstpeople, and that's not going to
work, or you can have the worstsystem and the best people, and
that'll work.
So sort of putting those twothings together, sometimes it's
not actually, do you have a partto your effluence system, but
it's having a management planthat includes things like Sean
was just talking about, likeyour record keeping and how do I
(14:30):
operate my system?
If someone comes on when I trainthem, do I have something that I
can take them through the systemwith?
You know, it just might be ontheir phone in a series of
pictures or or something likethat, but actually being able to
have your whole team competentin operating your system and
knowing when things are goingwrong.
A really good thing is to have areally good amount of storage.
If you've got just the rightamount of storage, you quite
(14:53):
often, especially with theweather events we've seen this
year and last year, you backyourself into corners.
So you've got to irrigate everyday.
And, you know, we get busy incarving, people get tired, they
make mistakes.
So if you're looking at storageas part of your sort of autumn
thinking, don't do it as smallas you can have it.
Actually build in someflexibility so that you don't
irrigate for eight weeks duringcarving or something like that.
(15:15):
And just when the systems aremade simple, even though we're
using technology, but themanagement's simple and you give
everyone breathing space, thenyou're not getting silly
mistakes made.
Autumn, a great time to do someof that maintenance work and
making sure that your system'sworking properly.
You've actually got to havegood, reliable irrigation
equipment.
And so, you know, whether it's atraveler or a pivot or pods, you
(15:38):
know, look at it, measure it,make sure that it is actually
spreading as evenly as it canand at the best rate.
I was measuring some on farm acouple of weeks ago and uh it's
on its fastest rate.
But because it had a few thingswrong with it, you know, its
fastest rate was actually veryslow.
And so having all of thosethings cleaned up and ready to
go.
And also what Sean was talkingabout was compliance.
(16:00):
Having fail safes and monitoringis getting key.
High-level pump alarms, pumpshutoffs when the irrigator gets
to the end of its run.
You know, some means of turningthings off when they stop moving
is just crucial these days.
Something else that's reallygood is flow monitoring because
then you know how much you'reputting on for each irrigation
(16:20):
event.
So if we get a nutrient testdone, we can then work out how
much nutrient we put on.
So you can get quite strategicin your placement and your
management.
And so looking at all of thosethings, you've got good storage,
good management, and then you'reusing the nutrients right,
you're going to have a systemthat performs well.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
There's something called an effluent waf.
Ah, yes.
What's that?
And what are the benefits ofgetting one?
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Basically, a WAF is a risk assessment or a health
check on your effluent system.
So if council comes out, they'lllook at symptoms of things
wrong.
The WAF sort of sits behind thatand it looks at the whole system
and looks at the potential risk.
One that would get missed heapsis what I call oval pipes.
And so you've got a pipe andit's going oval on the ends.
(17:05):
And if that gets left, itactually gets really weak at the
top.
So you know, when you bent yourcredit card, when it's passed,
it's used by date, and you getthose white lines.
That's what happens to thepipes.
And that's actually one of thehigher risk things we see
because they burst.
And so it's sort of quiteinteresting, you know, it's just
such a little thing.
But when we're talking aboutrisk, it's a completely
(17:25):
different thing to saying, ohgosh, you've done that, you
know, and that's a symptom ofthose things.
We start at the shared, makesure that all effluent is
captured and contained withinthere, so you know, got no
broken nibbing, no crackconcrete, that sort of thing.
Look at pumps and pipes, so wemeasure those as well.
So we measure flow and pressureof the pump to get an idea of
how it's actually performing.
(17:46):
And soft things like if you'rewalking on the ground and it's
really bumpy under your feet, soit's obviously quite compacted,
it got really wet and sort ofstock on it at some stage, you
know, that's going to have noabsorption.
So you're thinking about thosethings, and then listening to a
pump.
I mean, if a pump sort of soundsbad, it's not performing that
well.
So there's sort of some softerstuff as well.
(18:07):
We look at the storage capacitybased on the farm system, um,
irrigator performance, pondcondition.
We walk the pond, we're lookingfor any signs of seepage, holes
and liners, that sort of thing.
We do a bucket test and flow andpressure test on the irrigator
or the applicator.
And so that gives us the ratesfor the soil type, what
compliance risk there might bewith that, depending whether
(18:28):
you're in a permitted activityframework or a consented
framework.
And so that's the risk sitsaround that as well.
So that's what you've got tomeet for your system, depending
on what sort of regulatoryregime you're in.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
You've talked about what happens in the effluent
WAF.
Who does these and how can afarmer organise one?
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
So one of the things Sean talked about earlier was
some of the programs that Dairyand Z had developed to give
farmers confidence in the ruralprofessionals that were going on
farm.
The WAF certification programwas one of those.
There was lots of trainedprofessionals throughout the
country, and they're actuallylisted on the WAF assessment
website.
So you can go and have a lookthere and see who's in your area
(19:08):
and where those people operateas well.
And it's a really good time toget a WAF done about now.
Things are a bit quieter onfarm, so you've got time to have
a discussion with the personthat's coming on farm, and then
you can actually implement someof the recommendations that
might be made through thatprocess.
SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
Okay, so farmers can find someone to do an effluent
WAF for them on our website.
They can just go into Daisy orthe search bar and type effluent
waf and that'll come up.
And then if you follow thatlink, you'll find out who works
in your area.
Cool.
Thank you.
Now, Sean, when farmers arelooking at upgrades or new
infrastructure, which some ofthem might be now, what's the
(19:46):
value in using effluent systemdesign accredited advisors?
How does that help ensure thesystem is fit for purpose and
future-proof?
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Like I highlighted earlier, there's a bunch of
stuff that Darian Z has done inthe background that farmers
often don't see, but one of theindustry tools is the Farm Dairy
Effluence System AccreditedAdvisors Program.
So something that Darian Zdeveloped, similar to the MTA
assured logo that you get whenyou're looking to find somewhere
(20:15):
to get your car serviced orwarranted.
So it provides that same levelof value.
I think the companies andprofessionals that operate under
the accreditation program, itensures that they are designing
and building systems tailored toyour farm's needs and any future
goals you may have down theline.
The work that they do alignswith council's compliance and
(20:36):
regional council rules and alsooperates under those industry
assurance standards and designpractices.
So those accredited advisors areoperating under what we call
best practice.
But it also gives you that pointof contact.
If you look for the green tick,you know that you're going to
get confidence in the qualityand reliability of service, and
that hopefully that service ispretty consistent across all the
(20:59):
companies that have the greentick or the accreditation tick
beside them.
If you want to try to find them,they're also on our um DairyNZ
website as well.
So we've got a link for them,and that's a service that
Irrigation NZ runs and trainsand certifies those accredited
advisors.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Okay, Sean, you've talked to us about the benefits
of using effluent system designaccredited advisors.
So when a farmer gets in touchwith one of these or is you
working with one, what questionsshould they be asking?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Yeah, thanks, Jack.
I think as far as for designing,developing new systems and new
types of storage, the big thingthat you need to chat with the
designers about is just askingthose leading questions.
So what is the maintenancerequired with this type of
system?
How many days am I going to haveto be irrigating on average a
year?
We often see a lot of systemsbeing installed and designed.
(21:50):
And I don't think the farmersare actually fully aware of what
they've signed themselves up to.
We can see some storagecalculations that assume 350
days of irrigation.
Irrigation.
In reality, I don't think afarmer has the time or capacity
often to do that.
So you've really got to beasking those leading questions.
What's the maintenancerequirements?
How many days do I have toirrigate?
(22:12):
How many hours do I have toirrigate when I am irrigating?
And then considering how thatworks with your staffing
arrangements on farm as well.
Because not everyone has all dayto manage effluent.
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
Both of you have talked about autumn being a
great time to get on top ofeffluent.
And that there's lots ofpractical checks and jobs
farmers should be doing now tohelp avoid issues in winter and
make next spring run moresmoothly.
If each of you could just giveyour top one or two.
SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
From my perspective, I mentioned I spent quite a few
years in the regional councilcompliance team.
The big thing for me that standsout is having a management plan,
downloading one of Darian Z'smanagement plan posters,
sticking it in the cow shed orclose to your irrigation system,
and just working through all ofthose checklist items to make
sure that all the staff andpeople operating the system have
(23:02):
clarity on the rules, clarity onhow the system's run and what
risk to look out for.
The big thing from that is theliability side of things.
If something goes wrong, you'vegot all the processes and
procedures to fix whateverissues pop up.
And also it looks nice whenyou're a council compliance
officer turning up on farm andyou can just see right in front
(23:23):
of you all the things ticked offand tickety-boo.
SPEAKER_02 (23:26):
And surely, Sean, it also prevents things going
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Hopefully, or allows you to identify them early on.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
Reduces the risk, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
All right, Debbie, what's yours?
For me, it's storage capacity.
So we're in April now, autumn'sjust happening.
Sorry, we're in March andautumn's happening, but our
source temperatures are stillwarm.
So actually irrigating theeffluent from the pond.
So A, you're getting nutrientbang for buck because we get it
sort of autumn flush with a bitof water and a bit of
temperature still.
And so actually using thatnutrient before winter so that
(23:56):
you get your bang for buck, butthen the other side of that is
going into winter with a lowpond so that when we get big
rainfall events or when thesoils are just too cold to
irrigate to, you've got storagein that pond to manage it and
not have to apply in wet soilsand get yourself in trouble.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
Or waste the very valuable nutrients as well.
Absolutely.
All right, well, thank you both.
That brings us to the end oftoday's episode.
A huge thank you to Sean andDebbie for sharing their
knowledge and for helping us allkeep effluent management from
turning into a bigger stink thanit needs to be.
Remember, good advice, gooddesign, and proactive management
(24:33):
make all the difference.
Time your irrigation to get thebest value out of the nutrients,
check your irrigatorperformance, tidy up any weak
spots in your system, and ifyou're looking to invest, make
sure you're working with theright experts.
To learn more or find accreditedadvisors, check out the effluent
management information on theDairyNZ website and there will
(24:54):
be links in the show notes aswell.
Thanks for listening and we'llcatch you next time.
Matewa.
If you'd like to get connectedwith DairyNZ's latest advice,
research, tools, and resources,whether it's reading, scrolling,
listening, or in person, you canvisit dairynz.co.nz forward
(25:17):
slash get dash connected anddon't forget to hit follow to
keep up to date with our latestepisodes.
As always, if you have anyfeedback on this podcast or have
some ideas for future topics orguests, please email us at
talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz.
Thanks for listening and we'llcatch you next time on Talking
Dairy.
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