As the school year reaches its crescendo, the quiet rumblings of discontent among conservative educators find a voice on our latest episode. Joined by passionate teachers Josh Bender and Courtney McHughes, we peel back the curtain on the trials and triumphs of instilling conservative values amidst the modern educational landscape. Their stories, marked by influential high school mentors and the seismic waves of political change, offer a beacon for those navigating the testing tides of standardized assessments and union politics.
Amid the fervor for educational reform, our guests shed light on the contentious tenure system, sparking a debate over its necessity and the implications for student success. We share candid accounts of our journeys into the teaching sphere, reflecting on the stark political dichotomies within the profession and the push for balance as the academic year wanes. The question of whether to embrace or reform the tenure system lingers, as we grapple with the pressures of testing and the looming specter of burnout that all educators face. Courtney recounts her transition from public to charter education, where the promise of pedagogical freedom and the integration of traditional values breathe new life into her classroom. Finally, they give their parting advice to listeners that you are not alone and to keep fighting the good fight.
Links:
Speechless with Kev Phares YouTube Channel
Kev Phares Linktree
Courtney McHughes on Facebook
Courtney McHughes on LinkedIn
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TCC is THE podcast for conservative teachers, parents, and patriots who believe in free speech, traditional values, and education without indoctrination.
The views and opinions expressed by me are solely my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any employer, school, or school district I have worked with in the past or present.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mr. Webb (00:00):
Does standardized testing cause teachers to teach
to the test?
What's it like being aconservative teacher in the
teacher's union?
What's it like teaching at acharter school?
What challenges do teachersface near the end of a school
year?
Welcome to the ConservativeClassroom, where we're teaching
(00:22):
the truth and preserving ourvalues.
I'm your host, Mr.
Webb, and I'm glad you're here.
This podcast is a haven forconservative educators, parents
and patriots like you, whobelieve in the importance of
free speech, traditional valuesand education without
indoctrination.
Each week, we dive into issuesthat are plaguing our education
(00:46):
system and keeping you up atnight.
In each episode, we offercommon sense ideas to improve
education in our classrooms andcommunities.
You may feel like you're thelast conservative educator or
parent, but I want you to knowthat you are not alone.
By the way, if you like whatyou hear today, please share
(01:08):
this podcast with a like-mindededucator, parent or patriot.
Together, we can teach thetruth and preserve our values.
In today's episode, you'll heara discussion with an elementary
school teacher, a middle schoolteacher that's me and a high
school teacher about theteachers union, charter schools,
(01:29):
standardized testing, end ofthe year burnout and more.
Now let's get started.
Today, I'm excited to welcometwo special guests to the
conservative classroom, fellowteachers Josh Bender and
Courtney McHughes.
Courtney is an elementaryschool teacher in Georgia and
(01:50):
Josh is a high school teacher inNevada.
So, guys, thank you for joiningus.
Josh Bender (01:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Mr. Webb (01:59):
I want to make sure that we hear from teachers.
I love to have guests, authorsand that sort of thing, but I
love to have I try to at leastonce a month, you know, hear
from teachers.
I love to have guests, authorsand that sort of thing, but I
love to have I try to at leastonce a month, you know hear from
teachers that have their bootson the ground, so to speak.
But before we get started, canyou tell us a bit about yourself
(02:20):
, your background, what led youto become teachers, and
conservative teachers at that?
Josh?
Josh Bender (02:29):
Sure, yeah.
So originally I'm from Illinois, the suburbs of Chicago, and I
didn't know I wanted to be ateacher until my senior year of
high school.
Actually, originally I wantedto be an actor.
I was in musical theater forseven years.
I did some professional actingas well, and then I had a couple
(02:51):
really good history teachersthat really pushed me in the
best possible way, to be ateacher, as well as someone I
looked up to a lot, who was arole model for me in my life
with acting as well as just lifein general.
She was a teacher and she saidyou should be a teacher, and so
I went and did it.
What put me in the conservativemovement was 2016 election.
(03:13):
Actually, I was 15 years oldwhen it started, which I know
makes me sound incredibly young,and I am I'm only 23.
I was in high school whenDonald Trump kind of jumped on
the scene and man to a15-year-old.
He was exciting, and so Ireally started looking into the
movement and what it meant to bea Republican and conservative,
(03:34):
and that's when I quickly foundBen Shapiro and others and I
really started believing in itmore and I went to college in
Illinois, which was not easybeing a conservative on a
college campus in Illinois, butI stuck to it.
I joined College RepublicansTurning Point, usa, met my best
friend now.
We helped start the TurningPoint chapter together and I'm
(03:59):
still a conservative teacher andI'm still a conservative and I
don't let what I'm supposed tobe as a teacher which you're
supposed to be, this progressiveliberal I don't become that.
I stick to my guns.
I let my students know that Ido love America, I'm proud of
America and that I'm not goingto apologize for the sins of the
(04:24):
past when we've learned so muchfrom them.
And that's kind of my littlestory.
Mr. Webb (04:29):
So you don't tell your students you're conservative,
but you let them know you loveAmerica.
That's awesome.
Josh Bender (04:34):
Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Mr. Webb (04:37):
Courtney, what's your background?
What got you into teaching andconservativism?
Courtney McHughes (04:43):
Absolutely.
It's actually kind of funny,josh.
We actually have a lot ofsimilarities, so I'm a teacher,
yeah.
So one of the reasons I wantedto be a teacher was I had senior
year two teachers who wentabove and beyond the call of
(05:03):
duty to just kind of support methrough my parents' divorce and
to me they were just soinspirational and they really
cared about their students.
So once I graduated high schoolI decided I wanted to be exactly
like them.
So I went to Young CaresCollege and became an elementary
(05:24):
school teacher and, ironically,same as Josh when Trump became
kind of a big thing in college.
During my senior year ofcollege, I just absolutely loved
Trump.
I thought he was amazing and Ikind of used to hold the secrets
like Trump rally parties in mydorm room and I feel like being
(05:49):
a conservative teacher is moreso just like who you are like,
my core values align with theconservative party.
So after I graduated college Imet a few people who were very
heavily involved in the localGOP and that's kind of where I
got started in.
The conservative politics wasthrough them inviting me and,
(06:12):
you know, trying to mesh boththe world of politics and my
passion for teaching together.
Mr. Webb (06:18):
So what is it about the conservative movement that
aligns with your values?
Courtney McHughes (06:23):
And this is for you and Josh movement that
aligns with your values, andthis is for you and Josh, sure.
So I feel like a lot of thethings with the conservative
party really aligned with mycore values.
I mean, I believe in Americabeing the greatest country.
I believe that governmentshould be limited.
There are just so many things.
(06:44):
I feel like the conservativemovement is so much just about
being able to be Christian, beable to have those beliefs and
think that America is incrediblygreat and has so much potential
and can offer people of alldifferent backgrounds so many
different possibilities.
Mr. Webb (07:08):
I think there's a lot of liberals that don't
understand our values, and Inoticed you didn't say racist or
anything crazy like that inthere, and I think that's what a
lot of them think.
Josh, what about your values?
Josh Bender (07:23):
Yeah, I mean, I fully believe that America is
the greatest country on the faceof the earth that's ever
existed in the world.
I think our values inscribed inthe Constitution and the
Declaration, are ideals that wecan never fully live up to, and
I think that that says moreabout the country, or about
people, than it does of thecountry country, uh, or about
(07:45):
people than it does as a country.
Um, I think the idea of freedomof speech the second amendment,
um, the ability that anyone cancome here and be an american and
fully integrate into the system, is beautiful, because I can go
live in china for 20 years andI'll never fully be chinese, but
someone from china can comehere and, within a year, be an
american, and I think that'sbeautiful, and I think that that
is one thing I really inscribein my students too is anyone can
(08:08):
be an American, and by being anAmerican, you are so blessed
and so you are more privilegedthan most of the world, and I
think that's a beautiful thingto be born here and to be.
You know.
You know people always say youcan't choose where you're born.
Well, I Well, I thank God everyday I'm born here and that I
live here.
Mr. Webb (08:28):
So switching over to talking specifically about
teaching and, by the way, I loveboth your answers and I loved
it that it was different.
Courtney you mentioned limitedgovernment and aligning with
your Christian values, and Joshmentioned freedom and freedom of
speech, second Amendment, andthose sort of things.
(08:48):
Josh, I noticed you didn't sayracist or anything like that.
Josh Bender (08:55):
No, no, I believe yeah.
Mr. Webb (08:57):
So what is going on in education?
Why does it seem like educationis so far away from those
values that you guys mentioned,values which, it seems to me,
every American would want?
Josh Bender (09:15):
Well, I know I mean .
So I want to say it's becausethe right abandoned education.
You know, I think for a whilethe conservative movement was in
charge of education.
They were the ones who weredictating the curriculum, they
were dictating the classroom andthey abandoned it.
(09:36):
And I think that that's a shame, because the minute they did is
the minute all of these otheractivists moved in.
You know, I read the bookSpeechless by Michael Knowles
recently.
I just finished it, and hetalks about that and how
academia was this place whereyou can go and share your ideas
and grow as a person.
But then, once we startedabandoning that, it's when the
(10:01):
left flipped it and said youknow, you can only share our
ideas and they started pushingtheir own agenda.
I think the problem is, too, isthat Republicans see it not as
a winning issue, and so I meanthey can.
They could say the niceties,the pay teachers more and you
know lower class sizes, but theydon't know what to do because
(10:22):
many of them aren't educators ornever have been, so it becomes
hard for them to actually knowwhat to do.
Courtney McHughes (10:30):
So I feel like the problem with education
is sort of a deep, a deepconundrum for lack of a better
word, I feel like with education.
So a little bit about my storyis that I started off in an
alternative elementary school soI saw a lot.
I've been a teacher for Y and Z.
(11:06):
It was often kind of met withthe criticism of well, it's been
that way for 30 years and it'sgoing to continue to be that way
for 30 years.
And that's kind of what got meinterested in the educational
law and policy, because Iactually just graduated in this
past December with the master'sdegree in educational law and
(11:26):
policy and I feel like sometimeswith teachers there's kind of
this notion that it's been thatway forever and it's never going
to change.
Mr. Webb (11:38):
That was a master's degree.
What was that in again?
Courtney McHughes (11:41):
Sorry.
Educational law and policy.
Mr. Webb (11:45):
Wow, that's awesome.
Josh Bender (11:47):
That's what's wonderful.
Mr. Webb (11:50):
My podcasting brain says, hey, have her back on.
That's interesting.
Courtney McHughes (11:54):
Oh, I love that.
Josh Bender (11:58):
Yeah, I mean, I know.
Courtney McHughes (12:00):
Go ahead.
Josh Bender (12:17):
I was going to say well, I mean, I mean it's a
great bunch of people.
But I was recently at ourstate's delegate assembly and
twice they showed their PAC,gave a presentation, and it was
educators for Biden-Harris.
And then they had a keynotespeaker and it was one of their,
(12:38):
the treasury secretaries of thebigger union and he's working
with he was working with theBiden administration and I was
like that's cool.
You know, that's a coolopportunity.
He turned it into an elect JoeBiden speech and I will say to,
to give credit where credit isdue, biden voters got up and
said this is ridiculous.
What are you doing?
Like they were like this isabsurd.
(13:00):
This is not we're here for.
You know, I, I have friends, Ihave colleagues who aren't Biden
supporters, who are Trumpsupporters, and if they heard
this, this is absurd.
I mean this is absurd.
I don't know much of that I canshare.
Quite frankly, I don't care,because it did happen.
Um, I mean I mean that wasridiculous, that that happened,
and I was very upset, um, and Iknow I'm going to tell my union
(13:21):
that that happened and let's seehow they are, you know, let's
see how they react to it.
Um, but I think there is thatlevel of being outcast, there's
that fear of being outcast of,oh well, this is what the union
thinks and this is what the bigpowers that be believe, and so
if I differ or sway in any way,I'm going to be outcast at the
school and in my education, youknow, in education, and I think
(13:44):
that's why people get afraid, orthey silently support and
silently vote for theRepublicans, you know, but just
don't really talk about it, andI think that's sad to say.
Mr. Webb (13:57):
Courtney, are you in the teachers union?
Courtney McHughes (14:00):
I'm actually now currently in the charter
school section.
Before I switched over, when Iwas at the alternative
elementary school, yes, I waspart of like a teacher liability
insurance type thing, but nowthat I'm at my charter school,
no, I'm not.
Mr. Webb (14:15):
Right.
Well, it's interesting, josh,that you brought that up, that
you brought that up.
So I got in the teacher's unionand the first year I was in the
teacher's union and kind of mybackstory is I didn't start
teaching until I was 40.
And although I was aconservative, I didn't realize
(14:36):
how political, you know,education was.
So I got in the union.
I guess I had blinders on.
I didn't realize, you know,just how politicized everything
was.
And I was teaching in a smalldistrict that I grew up in and
so I was asked if I would be thelocal president, not because
(14:59):
I'm anything special, but justbecause you know it's a small
president, not because I'manything special, but just
because you know it's a small,small group of people.
And here I was, this new blood.
So they asked me.
I said, sure, you know, I'llhelp out any way I can.
And at the local level it wasvery conservative minded people
and you go up to the districtlevel.
That changed a little bit andI'm so glad that I had that
(15:24):
experience because I saw somethings behind the scenes and I
actually went to a nationalconvention and it was just
insane.
I thought, oh my gosh, whathave I got myself into Without
going into the whole story,because I had a whole podcast
episode where I go into all thatand I don't want to bore people
(15:46):
that have listened to that butI saw that there was a
Republican caucus on theschedule.
One of the breakout sessions wasRepublican caucus.
So I thought, oh, oh, great,you know I can go be among my
people and out of the thousandsof teachers that were there, I
walk into this room that hadthis Republican caucus.
(16:07):
There was about 20 of us.
That was it Out of thesethousands of teachers, and I
could just go on and on.
But back to what you said atthe local level it was a fairly
conservative group.
So I have a theory.
And what you said at the locallevel, it was a fairly
conservative group.
So I have a theory and what yousaid kind of backs that up that
(16:27):
a lot of conservative teachersare in the union because it's
not a crazy progressive liberalthing in their local district.
Josh Bender (16:42):
Yeah, I mean, I would agree.
I know there was a brand newgroup and it was like Republican
educators and they were tryingto talk about Republicans that
are pro-education.
But even then I was listeningto them talk and I met some of
the founders of it and I waslike, well, you know, we were
talking about who we weresupporting and I was like I was,
(17:02):
I met some of the founders ofit and I was like, well, you
know, I, we were talking aboutwho we were supporting and I was
like I support Ron DeSantis.
And they said him of all people.
I was like, yeah, and like he'snot, you know, and they kind of
chastised me and I was like Ithought this was the point of
this, was to talk about this,you know, um, so even then it's
like what are we doing?
You know, in this group I'mbeing attacked for what I, for
(17:24):
who I thought was right, andit's like that's not.
I don't think that was correct,wow.
Mr. Webb (17:29):
One of the things that the teachers unions push is
tenure.
So and that's one of the topicsthat that's kind of been
rolling around in my mind latelyTenure is a good thing.
If you're a teacher, you knowthat.
Hey, if I'm here for X numberof years, I get to keep my job.
(17:50):
I'm not sure it's always thebest thing for students and for
education in general.
What's your thoughts on that?
Courtney McHughes (17:59):
I feel like it's a hard line to balance.
On one hand you have great,excellent teachers who that is
amazing for, and on the otherhand you have teachers who maybe
shouldn't be in the professionor, you know, maybe have just
kind of lost all passion.
So I feel like tenure is kindof one of those tricky gray
(18:21):
areas.
Mr. Webb (18:24):
Right, I agree with you.
Josh Bender (18:26):
I tend not to be a fan of tenure, or I say tenure
needs to be reevaluated every sooften.
I like the idea that, okay, youput in so many years, you have
a tenure for five years, butevery five years we got to
reevaluate you.
You know, um, because yeah, Ithink we all know the horror
stories or we've seen it in ourbuilding of the teachers who's
(18:47):
there just for the paycheck, youknow, and they're, they're only
a couple of years away fromretirement or and they're just
like, well, I'm going to wait itout.
And that's hurting the kids,where, if there was a way to say
, okay, you got one more year tofix this.
You know, you got to beinnovating, updating, you got to
constantly be keeping it fresh.
Yeah, that's more work on theteacher's part, for sure, but
(19:11):
that's what the kids need.
Mr. Webb (19:12):
So I mean, and at the end of the day they're the most
important thing, Right, yeah?
And like I said, as a teacher Isee it as a good thing.
But for the students and foreducation, you know, I'm not so
sure.
And some teachers just getburnout over time.
They're good teachers.
(19:32):
They get burnout.
I guess this is an argument fortenure.
A good teacher that kind ofgets burnout.
You know, it would be a shamefor them to to lose their job to
a fresh, young face.
Um, but you know, we all get alittle burnout sometimes,
especially at the end of theyear.
I don't know, Um, we'reapproximately a month away from
(19:56):
the end of the year and are youguys suffering from a little
burnout?
Josh Bender (20:00):
Maybe it's just me and are you guys suffering from
a little burnout.
Maybe it's just me, yeah, Imean I it's it's hitting hard.
Um, you know, and I teachseniors and so they have
senioritis and so it's like thesenioritis mixed with the
burnout it's.
It's a mess in that classroomat times.
You know, we we can get off,can get off topic I'll be the
(20:21):
first to admit that, but it'sdefinitely hitting.
Courtney McHughes (20:25):
I would agree .
I feel like end of year is hardbecause you have state testing
coming up and you're trying tokind of cram in the last little
bit of curriculum and then, oncestate testing's done, you're
like, oh my goodness, I don'thave any curriculum, and there's
almost kind of a scramble and apanic, I feel like for me
personally.
(20:45):
I go through waves where I'msuper excited because I can
teach different things or reviewcertain topics and other points
where it's kind of like, whew,I am ready for summer.
Mr. Webb (20:56):
Right After testing.
That's that weird time that youhave a couple weeks of school
left, one or two weeks, whateverit is.
I suppose that's different indifferent districts and
different schools and you'vealready taught your guts out.
I think that's safe to put itthat way, I guess as our seniors
(21:19):
.
I don't suppose seniors aretested like.
I'm a middle school teacher,but I know elementary school and
middle school they're testedheavily.
I'm not sure if seniors aretested quite in the way that we
are.
Josh Bender (21:33):
No, they have the civics exam, which I make sure
that they do weeks before theend of the school year, because
that gives me the opportunity tofind the ones that missed it
and also, if they did bad, theycan retake it because they need
to pass it, so not as heavily.
Mr. Webb (21:54):
So how do you guys feel about standardized testing?
Josh Bender (21:58):
I mean, I do see it as a necessary evil.
I understand there needs to besome sort of standard that we
can look at as a country and asa state and say, hey, you know,
this is where we're at.
But I do also think it can be areally overly stressful
experience for students.
Experience for students.
(22:23):
If we're supposed to bepreparing them for real life.
Well, you're not going to gohave to sit and take a test like
that ever in your job, or maybeonce.
It could definitely getannoying.
Mr. Webb (22:36):
Courtney, how do?
You feel about that.
Courtney McHughes (22:39):
I agree.
I personally feel like statetesting is something that is
kind of an evil.
Like Josh said, I feel likewe've almost kind of lost the
art of teaching just becausemost schools are very focused on
teaching to the test, and oneof the things I really love
(22:59):
about the school that I'mcurrently at is the fact that,
like, we are very focused on thewonder of what life and
curriculum has to offer and notteach to a test, and I feel like
my students just comparingwhere I currently am to where I
used to be, you know the wholepoint of learning is to learn
(23:21):
and be able to think criticallyand be able to do so many
different things.
But yet we're focused so muchon making sure that students
receive the scores that theyneed to for state testing and I
just feel like the state testinghas opened up a lot of
unnecessary doors that I feellike we've lost the art of
(23:42):
teaching because of it.
Mr. Webb (23:45):
And you mentioned teaching to the test.
I think that's a huge problem.
As a math teacher middle schoolmath teacher I know what
standards I have to teach inseventh grade, for instance.
I teach seventh and eighthgrade.
(24:05):
Let's just take seventh grade.
I know what standards I have toteach and I know that those
students are going to be testedand I know that next year when
we get the test results, if theydo poorly, you know I take that
personally.
Right, if they do poorly, youknow I take that personally.
Courtney McHughes (24:21):
Right.
Mr. Webb (24:23):
But the flip side of that, I also know that some of
the things they're learning I'mthinking some of this they're
never going to need again, andthen some of the things that I
know are more important, I don'tget to teach.
So that goes back to you know,we've got this so much we have
(24:45):
to teach.
We're being tested at the endof the year.
So that's what we focus on it's, I guess.
Well, both of you said testingis a necessary evil.
No-transcript.
Courtney McHughes (25:02):
I just feel like we're compromising
students' true abilities andcapabilities when we're so
focused on a test Like to me,when I think about the core of
teaching, it's more so like canyou take the skill and apply it
for years on, whereas I feellike in most modern day places
(25:24):
it's very much I need you to beable to memorize and reproduce
at one point in time, but whathave you actually taken from it?
And that's kind of my issuewith state testing.
I feel like we focus on thewrong things.
When it comes to state mandatedtests, I think they're
important and I think they havesome value.
(25:46):
State mandated test I thinkthey're important and I think
they have some value, but theway that we test and how many
tests that are given, I feellike it, it it does seem strong.
Mr. Webb (25:56):
Do you have anything to add to that, Josh?
Josh Bender (26:00):
No, I mean I, I overall agree.
Yeah, I mean, and I think theweight they they take overall
agree, yeah, I mean, and I thinkthe weight they they take, you
know that like, because I meanso I taught ap, ap, us history,
for a year and my kids did notdo very good on the test.
Well, it turns out the test wasrewritten and no one did good
across the country that year.
Like overall the scores werelow but I took that really
(26:22):
personally when I saw that.
But it's like I know I did thebest I could to my ability and I
know you know it was also themthat had to put the work in.
You know, and yeah, I think theweight that they put on those
tests sometimes can really itcan turn a good teacher and a
(26:43):
teacher who cares into a realnegative Nancy, real quick.
Mr. Webb (26:48):
So we compare our scores this year, whatever the
scores will be, to our scoreslast year and the year before.
But it's a different group ofstudents coming in and out and I
think folks that don't teachdon't realize one group of
students can be so differentthan the group you had last year
(27:11):
and the group you have nextyear can be so different.
So I wish I know testing is anecessary evil, but I wish the
focus was on was more on okay.
So these students scored thisway before they came to your
school and although they'relet's say this group of students
(27:33):
are low performing, however,they learned a lot in your math
class compared to what they knewlast year, Instead of, oh, the
school scores went down or theschool scores went up.
Obviously, part of that isteachers, but a lot of that is
the group of students that youhave.
(27:53):
So you guys tell me am I wayoff on that?
Do you agree?
What have you seen?
Josh Bender (27:58):
No, you're 100% correct.
Courtney McHughes (28:00):
I agree fully .
Hit the nail on the hammer.
I don't know what theexpression is, sorry, whatever
it is, I mean that that's reallyspot on, truly.
Josh Bender (28:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think of even how different my
you know, my, my second periodis to my third period, and
that's in the same year, youknow, and I, yeah, I can't
imagine how my next year isgoing to be, you know, and, and,
and how last year was you knowit's.
Every class is so different,yeah, and I would love to be
able to say, hey, look, thatcame to you with this, but they
(28:34):
left with this, so that clearlythey learned a lot in your class
that that that's a betterreflection of you versus.
Oh, overall, the scores aredown.
Well, maybe this group justwasn't, as the fundamentals
weren't there when they got toyou, so you had to spend so much
time backpedaling that youcouldn't get to where you need
to.
You know, just even stuff likethat.
Mr. Webb (28:52):
I mean, we're able to dig into the data and look at
how this group of students did.
We're able to look at aparticular student and see how
they did last year, how they didthis year and, you know, after
this year's testing we can lookand see how they did last year,
how they did this year and, youknow, after this year's testing
we can look and see how they did.
But the way the schools aregraded in, you know, in Kentucky
(29:15):
it's, you know, these yellowstatus.
This school dropped to a yellowstatus and, okay, that school
also had a different group ofstudents coming in.
So, although we can look atindividually or at the school
level, at the teachers, the mathdepartment level, we can look
at students and compare and seeif this student grew from year
(29:38):
to year, but that's not reallywhat we're graded on, so to
speak.
Josh Bender (29:42):
No, I mean, I totally agree, and it's like I
feel like some schools aretrying to find a way around that
.
You know, like, oh look, we're,we're, we're watching the
student grow.
But also, I mean, there's justso many factors that can affect
how a student does.
And you know, I know, I know mydistrict is, um, it's a very,
very, very poverty strickendistrict, Um, and so some of
(30:09):
these kids might have a home andthen not have a home and like,
even things like that that doesaffect your scores.
You know, if you don't knowwhere your next meal is coming
from, yeah, you're not worriedabout school, you know.
And so even and even, those arefactors they don't the state
doesn't care about, they don'ttake that into account.
They just say, oh look, scoreswent down, Right, but these kids
are people, they're humans.
Mr. Webb (30:29):
And something I'm seeing is the effects of COVID
and I hate to even bring upCOVID and as teachers we
certainly can't blame everythingon COVID, but as a math teacher
at the beginning of the year itwas such a struggle and one of
the special education teachersthat was a co-teacher in one of
(30:52):
my classes.
I was talking to her about this.
This was like a month intoclass or a month into the school
year.
I said, well, I can't believehow low this group seems.
There's so many basic skillsthat it seems like they don't
have, and how frustrating it isthat I don't have the time to go
(31:15):
back and teach them.
And without those skills, howcan they build on those skills
and learn this concept?
And she said, well, do yourealize what grade those
students were in when COVID hitand schools were shut down?
It's when they were supposed tobe learning their
multiplication facts and likeshe went through two or three of
(31:37):
the things and I thought, oh,because I don't like to look
back at COVID and blame it onthat, but she had a really good
point.
Are you guys seeing any of that, any effects of the COVID
shutdowns and the loss oflearning?
Josh Bender (32:02):
I'm seeing it in a different way because I, I mean
it is, it is ridiculous how muchthey can't put their phones
down for for a minute, let alone.
You know, I, I, I think I, Ialmost wanted to bet them like
hey, if you all can put yourphones down and not touch them
(32:23):
for the entire class period,I'll throw a party, cause I don
a party because I don't thinkthey could do it.
I mean it's sad, I mean I'm inthe same generation as them.
I'm a Gen Z educator, which iseven weirder.
I get being attached to myphone, but I also know how to
disconnect and I can put it awayfor an hour if I need to,
(32:46):
especially to really focus onwhat I'm learning.
Mr. Webb (32:49):
Right.
Well, I just turned 50 over thesummer, so I'm an old geezer.
But I'm so used to my phone ittakes a conscious effort to put
it down sometimes, so I totallyget that what effects.
Courtney McHughes (33:11):
are you seeing Courtney of COVID?
So my current third graders.
When COVID hit they were inkindergarten.
So I've seen a lot offoundational issues with reading
this year where third grade atmy school it is very reading
intensive so students don't havethose foundational reading
skills.
They're struggling across theboard because they can't keep up
(33:33):
between word problems.
Our school is very kind of biginto the classical teaching
style so we read a lot ofstories like Princess and the
Goblin Black Beauty.
So we read a lot of storieslike Princess and the Goblin
Black Beauty kind of harder corelevel text for third graders
and it's challenging because somany of the students lack the
(33:55):
foundation to be able to decodethat they're so focused on
trying to figure out what theproblem or what the question is
that they struggle to apply theskills that are necessary.
So COVID's kind of been aninteresting factor with my group
this year.
Mr. Webb (34:16):
So, before I let it slip my mind, you've taught in
public schools and you teach ata charter school.
Now what's?
The difference on the teacherside, because that's interesting
.
A lot of times we talk on thepodcast about homeschool your
kids or get them out of thepublic schools, take them to
private school, charter school.
(34:36):
We talk about school choice,but it's interesting to look at
the teacher side.
So tell me a little about that,about that I love it.
Courtney McHughes (34:44):
I love the school that I'm at.
I feel like I have so much moreautonomy.
When I was in a traditionalpublic school, I was a Title I
teacher, so it was a lot ofreading and math intervention
skills.
However, that required me toread from a script for almost an
entire day in small groups,whereas now, being a third grade
(35:07):
teacher, I have a lot morefreedom to teach how I want and
to be able to kind of do thosemore kind of like art of
teaching aspects.
So we have a lot of Socraticquestioning, Socratic
discussions, you know type, talkabout hypotheticals and get to
(35:27):
enjoy learning through songs andall these different components.
That, being in the publicschool, I was not allowed to do
because it was very much.
You'd be able to read from thescript word for word and if you
deviated that was kind of seenas a big no-no.
Mr. Webb (35:44):
That's interesting.
So you have more freedom atyour charter school than you did
at the public school.
Courtney McHughes (35:51):
Yes, more freedom to teach how you want to
.
Mr. Webb (35:54):
Is that accurate?
Courtney McHughes (35:56):
Yes, my school is also very conservative
leaning, so I think that alsohelps a lot, because we get to
talk about, you know, a lot ofdifferent things, like how great
America is, we study the 13colonies and we get to look at
historical documents, and it'sjust creating the wonder in the
classroom has been a magicalexperience, not only for me, but
(36:19):
for my students.
Mr. Webb (36:22):
Isn't it crazy that talking about loving America and
reading historical documents isa conservative thing, isn't
that?
I mean, I don't think.
I don't think it was that way,I don't know, 20 years ago, but
it wasn't teaching 20 years ago,so I don't know.
Courtney McHughes (36:44):
I was not either.
Mr. Webb (36:50):
I got into teaching very late in the game.
I started teaching when I was40, so I think it has made me a
better teacher, because I was,I'm not sure at at 20 or 21, I'm
not sure I was mature enough toto be in charge of students and
to be a positive influence onthem.
So my hat's off to you guys forgetting an earlier start than I
(37:13):
did.
What's the one thing you wantthe listener to remember?
If they don't remember anythingelse about this episode,
courtney, we'll start with you.
Courtney McHughes (37:25):
Oh no, that's a tough one.
That's a really tough one, Iwould say.
I would probably give a pieceof encouragement that there are
great conservative educators.
They do exist.
You're listening to three ofthem right now, and that you
know.
I do believe that there is hopefor education.
Mr. Webb (37:50):
And there it is.
Encouragement and there are.
I say it on every episode.
You are not alone.
I sent out a Google form to getsome feedback for the podcast
and that's one of the thingsthat that folks like is hearing
from other teachers.
So I appreciate you guys beingon here.
Josh, you had a little moretime to think about it.
(38:12):
That wasn't fair to Courtney, Isuppose.
Josh Bender (38:14):
Oh, it's okay.
Mr. Webb (38:18):
What's the one thing you want the listener to
remember, Josh?
Josh Bender (38:22):
I mean, I kind of got to say the same thing.
You're not alone, there aregood teachers out there.
I think my biggest thing is andI push this every time a
discussion about publiceducation comes up is don't
abandon it, because the minuteyou abandon it is the minute we
give up everything.
But get out there and keepfighting, because I do believe a
(38:44):
pendulum is swinging, we'rereverting back to where we
should, but the minute we startto kind of loosen our grip is
the minute it goes back.
So we got to just help thatpendulum go.
Mr. Webb (38:58):
Yeah, that's great advice as we wrap up this
conversation.
Would either one of you or bothof you like to share with our
listeners where they can connectwith you on social media, or do
you have any projects orwebsites books, podcasts,
anything you want to plug orpromote?
(39:18):
This is your time to do that.
So, Josh, we'll start with youthis time.
Josh Bender (39:24):
So I got to give my buddy show a shout out.
Uh, originally it was our radioshow, but he's he's continued
into a podcast.
Um, speechless with Kev Ferris.
Um, he's a really, really,really awesome conservative.
Uh, my personal best friend.
I've been on the show numeroustimes.
Um, he's really doing a greatjob.
He's going to be a lawyer, sohe's just, he's amazing.
(39:47):
Um, you gotta check him out.
Uh, you can find him on YouTube.
Uh, I think speechless Kev onInstagram.
Um, he's an amazing guy.
I gotta plug him more than morethan myself, because without
people like him, who are on theground sharing these stories and
and and inspiring the youngpeople, uh we got nothing.
So definitely check outSpeechless with Kev Ferris.
Mr. Webb (40:10):
Speechless with Kev Ferris.
Josh Bender (40:12):
Yes, it's P-H-A-R-E-S.
Mr. Webb (40:18):
P-H-A-R-E-S.
Yeah, send me a link to thatafter the show and I'll make
sure to put that in the shownotes.
Is it a podcast?
Josh Bender (40:31):
Y eah, and now he's doing stuff on social media,
mainly YouTube, um, and then hedoes uh, he does live streams
every so often, videos, uh, he's.
He's trying to get back into itas much as he can, but he's
also, you know, busy with schooland everything okay, yeah, send
me links to that.
Mr. Webb (40:45):
I'll make sure and put it in the show notes.
Um, and I'll definitely checkthat out myself too.
Josh Bender (40:50):
Yeah, you got it.
Mr. Webb (40:52):
Anything else for you, Josh?
Josh Bender (40:54):
I think that is it for me All right.
Mr. Webb (40:57):
Um Courtney.
Courtney McHughes (40:59):
Um, I don't know that I really have any sort
of kind of social media, but ifpeople want to reach out, they
can find me on LinkedIn orFacebook under Courtney McHughes
, and I'm working on a couple ofprojects for them.
Keeping them quiet for rightnow.
Mr. Webb (41:15):
Gotcha and, if it's okay with you, I'll put a link
in the show notes how they canconnect with you on Facebook and
LinkedIn.
Make it really easy for them.
Courtney McHughes (41:26):
Perfect.
Mr. Webb (41:28):
All right, guys, I appreciate it so much.
I never know how it's going togo when I'm talking to folks
that I've never talked to before, but I'm telling you, the folks
in the conservative movementare just the nicest, most down
to earthearth, common-sensepeople, and you guys definitely
fall into that category.
(41:48):
I appreciate it so much.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Courtney McHughes (41:52):
Thank you for having us.
Mr. Webb (41:54):
Yes, thank you so much .
That's it for today's episodeof The Conservative Classroom.
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(42:15):
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See you next time on TheConservative Classroom.
Teaching the truth.
Preserving our values.
Does standardized testing cause teachers to teach
to the test?
What's it like being aconservative teacher in the
teacher's union?
What's it like teaching at acharter school?
What challenges do teachersface near the end of a school
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Welcome to the ConservativeClassroom, where we're teaching
(00:22):
the truth and preserving ourvalues.
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Each week, we dive into issuesthat are plaguing our education
(00:46):
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Together, we can teach thetruth and preserve our values.
In today's episode, you'll heara discussion with an elementary
school teacher, a middle schoolteacher that's me and a high
school teacher about theteachers union, charter schools,
(01:29):
standardized testing, end ofthe year burnout and more.
Now let's get started.
Today, I'm excited to welcometwo special guests to the
conservative classroom, fellowteachers Josh Bender and
Courtney McHughes.
Courtney is an elementaryschool teacher in Georgia and
(01:50):
Josh is a high school teacher inNevada.
So, guys, thank you for joiningus.
Josh Bender (01:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Mr. Webb (01:59):
I want to make sure that we hear from teachers.
I love to have guests, authorsand that sort of thing, but I
love to have I try to at leastonce a month, you know, hear
from teachers.
I love to have guests, authorsand that sort of thing, but I
love to have I try to at leastonce a month, you know hear from
teachers that have their bootson the ground, so to speak.
But before we get started, canyou tell us a bit about yourself
(02:20):
, your background, what led youto become teachers, and
conservative teachers at that?
Josh?
Josh Bender (02:29):
Sure, yeah.
So originally I'm from Illinois, the suburbs of Chicago, and I
didn't know I wanted to be ateacher until my senior year of
high school.
Actually, originally I wantedto be an actor.
I was in musical theater forseven years.
I did some professional actingas well, and then I had a couple
(02:51):
really good history teachersthat really pushed me in the
best possible way, to be ateacher, as well as someone I
looked up to a lot, who was arole model for me in my life
with acting as well as just lifein general.
She was a teacher and she saidyou should be a teacher, and so
I went and did it.
What put me in the conservativemovement was 2016 election.
(03:13):
Actually, I was 15 years oldwhen it started, which I know
makes me sound incredibly young,and I am I'm only 23.
I was in high school whenDonald Trump kind of jumped on
the scene and man to a15-year-old.
He was exciting, and so Ireally started looking into the
movement and what it meant to bea Republican and conservative,
(03:34):
and that's when I quickly foundBen Shapiro and others and I
really started believing in itmore and I went to college in
Illinois, which was not easybeing a conservative on a
college campus in Illinois, butI stuck to it.
I joined College RepublicansTurning Point, usa, met my best
friend now.
We helped start the TurningPoint chapter together and I'm
(03:59):
still a conservative teacher andI'm still a conservative and I
don't let what I'm supposed tobe as a teacher which you're
supposed to be, this progressiveliberal I don't become that.
I stick to my guns.
I let my students know that Ido love America, I'm proud of
America and that I'm not goingto apologize for the sins of the
(04:24):
past when we've learned so muchfrom them.
And that's kind of my littlestory.
Mr. Webb (04:29):
So you don't tell your students you're conservative,
but you let them know you loveAmerica.
That's awesome.
Josh Bender (04:34):
Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Mr. Webb (04:37):
Courtney, what's your background?
What got you into teaching andconservativism?
Courtney McHughes (04:43):
Absolutely.
It's actually kind of funny,josh.
We actually have a lot ofsimilarities, so I'm a teacher,
yeah.
So one of the reasons I wantedto be a teacher was I had senior
year two teachers who wentabove and beyond the call of
(05:03):
duty to just kind of support methrough my parents' divorce and
to me they were just soinspirational and they really
cared about their students.
So once I graduated high schoolI decided I wanted to be exactly
like them.
So I went to Young CaresCollege and became an elementary
(05:24):
school teacher and, ironically,same as Josh when Trump became
kind of a big thing in college.
During my senior year ofcollege, I just absolutely loved
Trump.
I thought he was amazing and Ikind of used to hold the secrets
like Trump rally parties in mydorm room and I feel like being
(05:49):
a conservative teacher is moreso just like who you are like,
my core values align with theconservative party.
So after I graduated college Imet a few people who were very
heavily involved in the localGOP and that's kind of where I
got started in.
The conservative politics wasthrough them inviting me and,
(06:12):
you know, trying to mesh boththe world of politics and my
passion for teaching together.
Mr. Webb (06:18):
So what is it about the conservative movement that
aligns with your values?
Courtney McHughes (06:23):
And this is for you and Josh movement that
aligns with your values, andthis is for you and Josh, sure.
So I feel like a lot of thethings with the conservative
party really aligned with mycore values.
I mean, I believe in Americabeing the greatest country.
I believe that governmentshould be limited.
There are just so many things.
(06:44):
I feel like the conservativemovement is so much just about
being able to be Christian, beable to have those beliefs and
think that America is incrediblygreat and has so much potential
and can offer people of alldifferent backgrounds so many
different possibilities.
Mr. Webb (07:08):
I think there's a lot of liberals that don't
understand our values, and Inoticed you didn't say racist or
anything crazy like that inthere, and I think that's what a
lot of them think.
Josh, what about your values?
Josh Bender (07:23):
Yeah, I mean, I fully believe that America is
the greatest country on the faceof the earth that's ever
existed in the world.
I think our values inscribed inthe Constitution and the
Declaration, are ideals that wecan never fully live up to, and
I think that that says moreabout the country, or about
people, than it does of thecountry country, uh, or about
(07:45):
people than it does as a country.
Um, I think the idea of freedomof speech the second amendment,
um, the ability that anyone cancome here and be an american and
fully integrate into the system, is beautiful, because I can go
live in china for 20 years andI'll never fully be chinese, but
someone from china can comehere and, within a year, be an
american, and I think that'sbeautiful, and I think that that
is one thing I really inscribein my students too is anyone can
(08:08):
be an American, and by being anAmerican, you are so blessed
and so you are more privilegedthan most of the world, and I
think that's a beautiful thingto be born here and to be.
You know.
You know people always say youcan't choose where you're born.
Well, I Well, I thank God everyday I'm born here and that I
live here.
Mr. Webb (08:28):
So switching over to talking specifically about
teaching and, by the way, I loveboth your answers and I loved
it that it was different.
Courtney you mentioned limitedgovernment and aligning with
your Christian values, and Joshmentioned freedom and freedom of
speech, second Amendment, andthose sort of things.
(08:48):
Josh, I noticed you didn't sayracist or anything like that.
Josh Bender (08:55):
No, no, I believe yeah.
Mr. Webb (08:57):
So what is going on in education?
Why does it seem like educationis so far away from those
values that you guys mentioned,values which, it seems to me,
every American would want?
Josh Bender (09:15):
Well, I know I mean .
So I want to say it's becausethe right abandoned education.
You know, I think for a whilethe conservative movement was in
charge of education.
They were the ones who weredictating the curriculum, they
were dictating the classroom andthey abandoned it.
(09:36):
And I think that that's a shame, because the minute they did is
the minute all of these otheractivists moved in.
You know, I read the bookSpeechless by Michael Knowles
recently.
I just finished it, and hetalks about that and how
academia was this place whereyou can go and share your ideas
and grow as a person.
But then, once we startedabandoning that, it's when the
(10:01):
left flipped it and said youknow, you can only share our
ideas and they started pushingtheir own agenda.
I think the problem is, too, isthat Republicans see it not as
a winning issue, and so I meanthey can.
They could say the niceties,the pay teachers more and you
know lower class sizes, but theydon't know what to do because
(10:22):
many of them aren't educators ornever have been, so it becomes
hard for them to actually knowwhat to do.
Courtney McHughes (10:30):
So I feel like the problem with education
is sort of a deep, a deepconundrum for lack of a better
word, I feel like with education.
So a little bit about my storyis that I started off in an
alternative elementary school soI saw a lot.
I've been a teacher for Y and Z.
(11:06):
It was often kind of met withthe criticism of well, it's been
that way for 30 years and it'sgoing to continue to be that way
for 30 years.
And that's kind of what got meinterested in the educational
law and policy, because Iactually just graduated in this
past December with the master'sdegree in educational law and
(11:26):
policy and I feel like sometimeswith teachers there's kind of
this notion that it's been thatway forever and it's never going
to change.
Mr. Webb (11:38):
That was a master's degree.
What was that in again?
Courtney McHughes (11:41):
Sorry.
Educational law and policy.
Mr. Webb (11:45):
Wow, that's awesome.
Josh Bender (11:47):
That's what's wonderful.
Mr. Webb (11:50):
My podcasting brain says, hey, have her back on.
That's interesting.
Courtney McHughes (11:54):
Oh, I love that.
Josh Bender (11:58):
Yeah, I mean, I know.
Courtney McHughes (12:00):
Go ahead.
Josh Bender (12:17):
I was going to say well, I mean, I mean it's a
great bunch of people.
But I was recently at ourstate's delegate assembly and
twice they showed their PAC,gave a presentation, and it was
educators for Biden-Harris.
And then they had a keynotespeaker and it was one of their,
(12:38):
the treasury secretaries of thebigger union and he's working
with he was working with theBiden administration and I was
like that's cool.
You know, that's a coolopportunity.
He turned it into an elect JoeBiden speech and I will say to,
to give credit where credit isdue, biden voters got up and
said this is ridiculous.
What are you doing?
Like they were like this isabsurd.
(13:00):
This is not we're here for.
You know, I, I have friends, Ihave colleagues who aren't Biden
supporters, who are Trumpsupporters, and if they heard
this, this is absurd.
I mean this is absurd.
I don't know much of that I canshare.
Quite frankly, I don't care,because it did happen.
Um, I mean I mean that wasridiculous, that that happened,
and I was very upset, um, and Iknow I'm going to tell my union
(13:21):
that that happened and let's seehow they are, you know, let's
see how they react to it.
Um, but I think there is thatlevel of being outcast, there's
that fear of being outcast of,oh well, this is what the union
thinks and this is what the bigpowers that be believe, and so
if I differ or sway in any way,I'm going to be outcast at the
school and in my education, youknow, in education, and I think
(13:44):
that's why people get afraid, orthey silently support and
silently vote for theRepublicans, you know, but just
don't really talk about it, andI think that's sad to say.
Mr. Webb (13:57):
Courtney, are you in the teachers union?
Courtney McHughes (14:00):
I'm actually now currently in the charter
school section.
Before I switched over, when Iwas at the alternative
elementary school, yes, I waspart of like a teacher liability
insurance type thing, but nowthat I'm at my charter school,
no, I'm not.
Mr. Webb (14:15):
Right.
Well, it's interesting, josh,that you brought that up, that
you brought that up.
So I got in the teacher's unionand the first year I was in the
teacher's union and kind of mybackstory is I didn't start
teaching until I was 40.
And although I was aconservative, I didn't realize
(14:36):
how political, you know,education was.
So I got in the union.
I guess I had blinders on.
I didn't realize, you know,just how politicized everything
was.
And I was teaching in a smalldistrict that I grew up in and
so I was asked if I would be thelocal president, not because
(14:59):
I'm anything special, but justbecause you know it's a small
president, not because I'manything special, but just
because you know it's a small,small group of people.
And here I was, this new blood.
So they asked me.
I said, sure, you know, I'llhelp out any way I can.
And at the local level it wasvery conservative minded people
and you go up to the districtlevel.
That changed a little bit andI'm so glad that I had that
(15:24):
experience because I saw somethings behind the scenes and I
actually went to a nationalconvention and it was just
insane.
I thought, oh my gosh, whathave I got myself into Without
going into the whole story,because I had a whole podcast
episode where I go into all thatand I don't want to bore people
(15:46):
that have listened to that butI saw that there was a
Republican caucus on theschedule.
One of the breakout sessions wasRepublican caucus.
So I thought, oh, oh, great,you know I can go be among my
people and out of the thousandsof teachers that were there, I
walk into this room that hadthis Republican caucus.
(16:07):
There was about 20 of us.
That was it Out of thesethousands of teachers, and I
could just go on and on.
But back to what you said atthe local level it was a fairly
conservative group.
So I have a theory.
And what you said at the locallevel, it was a fairly
conservative group.
So I have a theory and what yousaid kind of backs that up that
(16:27):
a lot of conservative teachersare in the union because it's
not a crazy progressive liberalthing in their local district.
Josh Bender (16:42):
Yeah, I mean, I would agree.
I know there was a brand newgroup and it was like Republican
educators and they were tryingto talk about Republicans that
are pro-education.
But even then I was listeningto them talk and I met some of
the founders of it and I waslike, well, you know, we were
talking about who we weresupporting and I was like I was,
(17:02):
I met some of the founders ofit and I was like, well, you
know, I, we were talking aboutwho we were supporting and I was
like I support Ron DeSantis.
And they said him of all people.
I was like, yeah, and like he'snot, you know, and they kind of
chastised me and I was like Ithought this was the point of
this, was to talk about this,you know, um, so even then it's
like what are we doing?
You know, in this group I'mbeing attacked for what I, for
(17:24):
who I thought was right, andit's like that's not.
I don't think that was correct,wow.
Mr. Webb (17:29):
One of the things that the teachers unions push is
tenure.
So and that's one of the topicsthat that's kind of been
rolling around in my mind latelyTenure is a good thing.
If you're a teacher, you knowthat.
Hey, if I'm here for X numberof years, I get to keep my job.
(17:50):
I'm not sure it's always thebest thing for students and for
education in general.
What's your thoughts on that?
Courtney McHughes (17:59):
I feel like it's a hard line to balance.
On one hand you have great,excellent teachers who that is
amazing for, and on the otherhand you have teachers who maybe
shouldn't be in the professionor, you know, maybe have just
kind of lost all passion.
So I feel like tenure is kindof one of those tricky gray
(18:21):
areas.
Mr. Webb (18:24):
Right, I agree with you.
Josh Bender (18:26):
I tend not to be a fan of tenure, or I say tenure
needs to be reevaluated every sooften.
I like the idea that, okay, youput in so many years, you have
a tenure for five years, butevery five years we got to
reevaluate you.
You know, um, because yeah, Ithink we all know the horror
stories or we've seen it in ourbuilding of the teachers who's
(18:47):
there just for the paycheck, youknow, and they're, they're only
a couple of years away fromretirement or and they're just
like, well, I'm going to wait itout.
And that's hurting the kids,where, if there was a way to say
, okay, you got one more year tofix this.
You know, you got to beinnovating, updating, you got to
constantly be keeping it fresh.
Yeah, that's more work on theteacher's part, for sure, but
(19:11):
that's what the kids need.
Mr. Webb (19:12):
So I mean, and at the end of the day they're the most
important thing, Right, yeah?
And like I said, as a teacher Isee it as a good thing.
But for the students and foreducation, you know, I'm not so
sure.
And some teachers just getburnout over time.
They're good teachers.
(19:32):
They get burnout.
I guess this is an argument fortenure.
A good teacher that kind ofgets burnout.
You know, it would be a shamefor them to to lose their job to
a fresh, young face.
Um, but you know, we all get alittle burnout sometimes,
especially at the end of theyear.
I don't know, Um, we'reapproximately a month away from
(19:56):
the end of the year and are youguys suffering from a little
burnout?
Josh Bender (20:00):
Maybe it's just me and are you guys suffering from
a little burnout.
Maybe it's just me, yeah, Imean I it's it's hitting hard.
Um, you know, and I teachseniors and so they have
senioritis and so it's like thesenioritis mixed with the
burnout it's.
It's a mess in that classroomat times.
You know, we we can get off,can get off topic I'll be the
(20:21):
first to admit that, but it'sdefinitely hitting.
Courtney McHughes (20:25):
I would agree .
I feel like end of year is hardbecause you have state testing
coming up and you're trying tokind of cram in the last little
bit of curriculum and then, oncestate testing's done, you're
like, oh my goodness, I don'thave any curriculum, and there's
almost kind of a scramble and apanic, I feel like for me
personally.
(20:45):
I go through waves where I'msuper excited because I can
teach different things or reviewcertain topics and other points
where it's kind of like, whew,I am ready for summer.
Mr. Webb (20:56):
Right After testing.
That's that weird time that youhave a couple weeks of school
left, one or two weeks, whateverit is.
I suppose that's different indifferent districts and
different schools and you'vealready taught your guts out.
I think that's safe to put itthat way, I guess as our seniors
(21:19):
.
I don't suppose seniors aretested like.
I'm a middle school teacher,but I know elementary school and
middle school they're testedheavily.
I'm not sure if seniors aretested quite in the way that we
are.
Josh Bender (21:33):
No, they have the civics exam, which I make sure
that they do weeks before theend of the school year, because
that gives me the opportunity tofind the ones that missed it
and also, if they did bad, theycan retake it because they need
to pass it, so not as heavily.
Mr. Webb (21:54):
So how do you guys feel about standardized testing?
Josh Bender (21:58):
I mean, I do see it as a necessary evil.
I understand there needs to besome sort of standard that we
can look at as a country and asa state and say, hey, you know,
this is where we're at.
But I do also think it can be areally overly stressful
experience for students.
Experience for students.
(22:23):
If we're supposed to bepreparing them for real life.
Well, you're not going to gohave to sit and take a test like
that ever in your job, or maybeonce.
It could definitely getannoying.
Mr. Webb (22:36):
Courtney, how do?
You feel about that.
Courtney McHughes (22:39):
I agree.
I personally feel like statetesting is something that is
kind of an evil.
Like Josh said, I feel likewe've almost kind of lost the
art of teaching just becausemost schools are very focused on
teaching to the test, and oneof the things I really love
(22:59):
about the school that I'mcurrently at is the fact that,
like, we are very focused on thewonder of what life and
curriculum has to offer and notteach to a test, and I feel like
my students just comparingwhere I currently am to where I
used to be, you know the wholepoint of learning is to learn
(23:21):
and be able to think criticallyand be able to do so many
different things.
But yet we're focused so muchon making sure that students
receive the scores that theyneed to for state testing and I
just feel like the state testinghas opened up a lot of
unnecessary doors that I feellike we've lost the art of
(23:42):
teaching because of it.
Mr. Webb (23:45):
And you mentioned teaching to the test.
I think that's a huge problem.
As a math teacher middle schoolmath teacher I know what
standards I have to teach inseventh grade, for instance.
I teach seventh and eighthgrade.
(24:05):
Let's just take seventh grade.
I know what standards I have toteach and I know that those
students are going to be testedand I know that next year when
we get the test results, if theydo poorly, you know I take that
personally.
Right, if they do poorly, youknow I take that personally.
Courtney McHughes (24:21):
Right.
Mr. Webb (24:23):
But the flip side of that, I also know that some of
the things they're learning I'mthinking some of this they're
never going to need again, andthen some of the things that I
know are more important, I don'tget to teach.
So that goes back to you know,we've got this so much we have
(24:45):
to teach.
We're being tested at the endof the year.
So that's what we focus on it's, I guess.
Well, both of you said testingis a necessary evil.
No-transcript.
Courtney McHughes (25:02):
I just feel like we're compromising
students' true abilities andcapabilities when we're so
focused on a test Like to me,when I think about the core of
teaching, it's more so like canyou take the skill and apply it
for years on, whereas I feellike in most modern day places
(25:24):
it's very much I need you to beable to memorize and reproduce
at one point in time, but whathave you actually taken from it?
And that's kind of my issuewith state testing.
I feel like we focus on thewrong things.
When it comes to state mandatedtests, I think they're
important and I think they havesome value.
(25:46):
State mandated test I thinkthey're important and I think
they have some value, but theway that we test and how many
tests that are given, I feellike it, it it does seem strong.
Mr. Webb (25:56):
Do you have anything to add to that, Josh?
Josh Bender (26:00):
No, I mean I, I overall agree.
Yeah, I mean, and I think theweight they they take overall
agree, yeah, I mean, and I thinkthe weight they they take, you
know that like, because I meanso I taught ap, ap, us history,
for a year and my kids did notdo very good on the test.
Well, it turns out the test wasrewritten and no one did good
across the country that year.
Like overall the scores werelow but I took that really
(26:22):
personally when I saw that.
But it's like I know I did thebest I could to my ability and I
know you know it was also themthat had to put the work in.
You know, and yeah, I think theweight that they put on those
tests sometimes can really itcan turn a good teacher and a
(26:43):
teacher who cares into a realnegative Nancy, real quick.
Mr. Webb (26:48):
So we compare our scores this year, whatever the
scores will be, to our scoreslast year and the year before.
But it's a different group ofstudents coming in and out and I
think folks that don't teachdon't realize one group of
students can be so differentthan the group you had last year
(27:11):
and the group you have nextyear can be so different.
So I wish I know testing is anecessary evil, but I wish the
focus was on was more on okay.
So these students scored thisway before they came to your
school and although they'relet's say this group of students
(27:33):
are low performing, however,they learned a lot in your math
class compared to what they knewlast year, Instead of, oh, the
school scores went down or theschool scores went up.
Obviously, part of that isteachers, but a lot of that is
the group of students that youhave.
(27:53):
So you guys tell me am I wayoff on that?
Do you agree?
What have you seen?
Josh Bender (27:58):
No, you're 100% correct.
Courtney McHughes (28:00):
I agree fully .
Hit the nail on the hammer.
I don't know what theexpression is, sorry, whatever
it is, I mean that that's reallyspot on, truly.
Josh Bender (28:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think of even how different my
you know, my, my second periodis to my third period, and
that's in the same year, youknow, and I, yeah, I can't
imagine how my next year isgoing to be, you know, and, and,
and how last year was you knowit's.
Every class is so different,yeah, and I would love to be
able to say, hey, look, thatcame to you with this, but they
(28:34):
left with this, so that clearlythey learned a lot in your class
that that that's a betterreflection of you versus.
Oh, overall, the scores aredown.
Well, maybe this group justwasn't, as the fundamentals
weren't there when they got toyou, so you had to spend so much
time backpedaling that youcouldn't get to where you need
to.
You know, just even stuff likethat.
Mr. Webb (28:52):
I mean, we're able to dig into the data and look at
how this group of students did.
We're able to look at aparticular student and see how
they did last year, how they didthis year and, you know, after
this year's testing we can lookand see how they did last year,
how they did this year and, youknow, after this year's testing
we can look and see how they did.
But the way the schools aregraded in, you know, in Kentucky
(29:15):
it's, you know, these yellowstatus.
This school dropped to a yellowstatus and, okay, that school
also had a different group ofstudents coming in.
So, although we can look atindividually or at the school
level, at the teachers, the mathdepartment level, we can look
at students and compare and seeif this student grew from year
(29:38):
to year, but that's not reallywhat we're graded on, so to
speak.
Josh Bender (29:42):
No, I mean, I totally agree, and it's like I
feel like some schools aretrying to find a way around that
.
You know, like, oh look, we're,we're, we're watching the
student grow.
But also, I mean, there's justso many factors that can affect
how a student does.
And you know, I know, I know mydistrict is, um, it's a very,
very, very poverty strickendistrict, Um, and so some of
(30:09):
these kids might have a home andthen not have a home and like,
even things like that that doesaffect your scores.
You know, if you don't knowwhere your next meal is coming
from, yeah, you're not worriedabout school, you know.
And so even and even, those arefactors they don't the state
doesn't care about, they don'ttake that into account.
They just say, oh look, scoreswent down, Right, but these kids
are people, they're humans.
Mr. Webb (30:29):
And something I'm seeing is the effects of COVID
and I hate to even bring upCOVID and as teachers we
certainly can't blame everythingon COVID, but as a math teacher
at the beginning of the year itwas such a struggle and one of
the special education teachersthat was a co-teacher in one of
(30:52):
my classes.
I was talking to her about this.
This was like a month intoclass or a month into the school
year.
I said, well, I can't believehow low this group seems.
There's so many basic skillsthat it seems like they don't
have, and how frustrating it isthat I don't have the time to go
(31:15):
back and teach them.
And without those skills, howcan they build on those skills
and learn this concept?
And she said, well, do yourealize what grade those
students were in when COVID hitand schools were shut down?
It's when they were supposed tobe learning their
multiplication facts and likeshe went through two or three of
(31:37):
the things and I thought, oh,because I don't like to look
back at COVID and blame it onthat, but she had a really good
point.
Are you guys seeing any of that, any effects of the COVID
shutdowns and the loss oflearning?
Josh Bender (32:02):
I'm seeing it in a different way because I, I mean
it is, it is ridiculous how muchthey can't put their phones
down for for a minute, let alone.
You know, I, I, I think I, Ialmost wanted to bet them like
hey, if you all can put yourphones down and not touch them
(32:23):
for the entire class period,I'll throw a party, cause I don
a party because I don't thinkthey could do it.
I mean it's sad, I mean I'm inthe same generation as them.
I'm a Gen Z educator, which iseven weirder.
I get being attached to myphone, but I also know how to
disconnect and I can put it awayfor an hour if I need to,
(32:46):
especially to really focus onwhat I'm learning.
Mr. Webb (32:49):
Right.
Well, I just turned 50 over thesummer, so I'm an old geezer.
But I'm so used to my phone ittakes a conscious effort to put
it down sometimes, so I totallyget that what effects.
Courtney McHughes (33:11):
are you seeing Courtney of COVID?
So my current third graders.
When COVID hit they were inkindergarten.
So I've seen a lot offoundational issues with reading
this year where third grade atmy school it is very reading
intensive so students don't havethose foundational reading
skills.
They're struggling across theboard because they can't keep up
(33:33):
between word problems.
Our school is very kind of biginto the classical teaching
style so we read a lot ofstories like Princess and the
Goblin Black Beauty.
So we read a lot of storieslike Princess and the Goblin
Black Beauty kind of harder corelevel text for third graders
and it's challenging because somany of the students lack the
(33:55):
foundation to be able to decodethat they're so focused on
trying to figure out what theproblem or what the question is
that they struggle to apply theskills that are necessary.
So COVID's kind of been aninteresting factor with my group
this year.
Mr. Webb (34:16):
So, before I let it slip my mind, you've taught in
public schools and you teach ata charter school.
Now what's?
The difference on the teacherside, because that's interesting
.
A lot of times we talk on thepodcast about homeschool your
kids or get them out of thepublic schools, take them to
private school, charter school.
(34:36):
We talk about school choice,but it's interesting to look at
the teacher side.
So tell me a little about that,about that I love it.
Courtney McHughes (34:44):
I love the school that I'm at.
I feel like I have so much moreautonomy.
When I was in a traditionalpublic school, I was a Title I
teacher, so it was a lot ofreading and math intervention
skills.
However, that required me toread from a script for almost an
entire day in small groups,whereas now, being a third grade
(35:07):
teacher, I have a lot morefreedom to teach how I want and
to be able to kind of do thosemore kind of like art of
teaching aspects.
So we have a lot of Socraticquestioning, Socratic
discussions, you know type, talkabout hypotheticals and get to
(35:27):
enjoy learning through songs andall these different components.
That, being in the publicschool, I was not allowed to do
because it was very much.
You'd be able to read from thescript word for word and if you
deviated that was kind of seenas a big no-no.
Mr. Webb (35:44):
That's interesting.
So you have more freedom atyour charter school than you did
at the public school.
Courtney McHughes (35:51):
Yes, more freedom to teach how you want to
.
Mr. Webb (35:54):
Is that accurate?
Courtney McHughes (35:56):
Yes, my school is also very conservative
leaning, so I think that alsohelps a lot, because we get to
talk about, you know, a lot ofdifferent things, like how great
America is, we study the 13colonies and we get to look at
historical documents, and it'sjust creating the wonder in the
classroom has been a magicalexperience, not only for me, but
(36:19):
for my students.
Mr. Webb (36:22):
Isn't it crazy that talking about loving America and
reading historical documents isa conservative thing, isn't
that?
I mean, I don't think.
I don't think it was that way,I don't know, 20 years ago, but
it wasn't teaching 20 years ago,so I don't know.
Courtney McHughes (36:44):
I was not either.
Mr. Webb (36:50):
I got into teaching very late in the game.
I started teaching when I was40, so I think it has made me a
better teacher, because I was,I'm not sure at at 20 or 21, I'm
not sure I was mature enough toto be in charge of students and
to be a positive influence onthem.
So my hat's off to you guys forgetting an earlier start than I
(37:13):
did.
What's the one thing you wantthe listener to remember?
If they don't remember anythingelse about this episode,
courtney, we'll start with you.
Courtney McHughes (37:25):
Oh no, that's a tough one.
That's a really tough one, Iwould say.
I would probably give a pieceof encouragement that there are
great conservative educators.
They do exist.
You're listening to three ofthem right now, and that you
know.
I do believe that there is hopefor education.
Mr. Webb (37:50):
And there it is.
Encouragement and there are.
I say it on every episode.
You are not alone.
I sent out a Google form to getsome feedback for the podcast
and that's one of the thingsthat that folks like is hearing
from other teachers.
So I appreciate you guys beingon here.
Josh, you had a little moretime to think about it.
(38:12):
That wasn't fair to Courtney, Isuppose.
Josh Bender (38:14):
Oh, it's okay.
Mr. Webb (38:18):
What's the one thing you want the listener to
remember, Josh?
Josh Bender (38:22):
I mean, I kind of got to say the same thing.
You're not alone, there aregood teachers out there.
I think my biggest thing is andI push this every time a
discussion about publiceducation comes up is don't
abandon it, because the minuteyou abandon it is the minute we
give up everything.
But get out there and keepfighting, because I do believe a
(38:44):
pendulum is swinging, we'rereverting back to where we
should, but the minute we startto kind of loosen our grip is
the minute it goes back.
So we got to just help thatpendulum go.
Mr. Webb (38:58):
Yeah, that's great advice as we wrap up this
conversation.
Would either one of you or bothof you like to share with our
listeners where they can connectwith you on social media, or do
you have any projects orwebsites books, podcasts,
anything you want to plug orpromote?
(39:18):
This is your time to do that.
So, Josh, we'll start with youthis time.
Josh Bender (39:24):
So I got to give my buddy show a shout out.
Uh, originally it was our radioshow, but he's he's continued
into a podcast.
Um, speechless with Kev Ferris.
Um, he's a really, really,really awesome conservative.
Uh, my personal best friend.
I've been on the show numeroustimes.
Um, he's really doing a greatjob.
He's going to be a lawyer, sohe's just, he's amazing.
(39:47):
Um, you gotta check him out.
Uh, you can find him on YouTube.
Uh, I think speechless Kev onInstagram.
Um, he's an amazing guy.
I gotta plug him more than morethan myself, because without
people like him, who are on theground sharing these stories and
and and inspiring the youngpeople, uh we got nothing.
So definitely check outSpeechless with Kev Ferris.
Mr. Webb (40:10):
Speechless with Kev Ferris.
Josh Bender (40:12):
Yes, it's P-H-A-R-E-S.
Mr. Webb (40:18):
P-H-A-R-E-S.
Yeah, send me a link to thatafter the show and I'll make
sure to put that in the shownotes.
Is it a podcast?
Josh Bender (40:31):
Y eah, and now he's doing stuff on social media,
mainly YouTube, um, and then hedoes uh, he does live streams
every so often, videos, uh, he's.
He's trying to get back into itas much as he can, but he's
also, you know, busy with schooland everything okay, yeah, send
me links to that.
Mr. Webb (40:45):
I'll make sure and put it in the show notes.
Um, and I'll definitely checkthat out myself too.
Josh Bender (40:50):
Yeah, you got it.
Mr. Webb (40:52):
Anything else for you, Josh?
Josh Bender (40:54):
I think that is it for me All right.
Mr. Webb (40:57):
Um Courtney.
Courtney McHughes (40:59):
Um, I don't know that I really have any sort
of kind of social media, but ifpeople want to reach out, they
can find me on LinkedIn orFacebook under Courtney McHughes
, and I'm working on a couple ofprojects for them.
Keeping them quiet for rightnow.
Mr. Webb (41:15):
Gotcha and, if it's okay with you, I'll put a link
in the show notes how they canconnect with you on Facebook and
LinkedIn.
Make it really easy for them.
Courtney McHughes (41:26):
Perfect.
Mr. Webb (41:28):
All right, guys, I appreciate it so much.
I never know how it's going togo when I'm talking to folks
that I've never talked to before, but I'm telling you, the folks
in the conservative movementare just the nicest, most down
to earthearth, common-sensepeople, and you guys definitely
fall into that category.
(41:48):
I appreciate it so much.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Courtney McHughes (41:52):
Thank you for having us.
Mr. Webb (41:54):
Yes, thank you so much .
That's it for today's episodeof The Conservative Classroom.
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(43:43):
districts, but your silent showof support may help you find
other conservatives in yourcommunity and it lets you know
that you're doing the rightthing.
Until next time.
This is, Mr.
Webb, reminding you that youare not alone.
See you next time on TheConservative Classroom.
Teaching the truth.
Preserving our values.
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