October 20, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of The Disruptor Podcast, host John Kundtz sits down with Jon Levesque, Founder and CEO of Seeq, to explore why the age of static directories such as Google, Yelp, and star ratings is officially over.
Jon shares how Seeq, the world’s first Experience Network, transforms social content into living, bookable experiences. Instead of endless scrolling and fake reviews, Seeq turns creator videos into AI-assisted, mappable, and shoppable itineraries, bridging intent and action in one click.
You’ll hear how Jon transitioned from setting up Microsoft stages to speaking on them, why he left corporate life to build something truly human-centered, and how his team is helping creators earn a real income while empowering users to get back out into the world again.
Together, they discuss what it means to turn your phone from a prison into a compass and why the next digital revolution is rooted not in attention, but trust.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
1️⃣ Why the “directory era” is dying—and what replaces it.
2️⃣ How Seeq lets creators monetize their content without chasing views.
3️⃣ Why the future of discovery is human-led and AI-assisted.
How digital platforms can move us from an attention economy to a trust economy.
About our guest:
Jon Levesque is the Founder and CEO of Seeq, a first-of-its-kind experience network that connects discovery, storytelling, and real-world action.
A former Microsoft and DocuSign executive, Jon has built global communities, led Fortune 500 engagement strategies, and now focuses on empowering creators to build trust-based economies where authenticity, not algorithms, wins.
👉 Learn more at seeq.ing or
Connect with Jon on LinkedIn or follow him on Substack: Jon J. Levesque
Comments or Questions? Send us a text
***
Engage, Share, and Connect!
Spread the Word: Valuable insights are best when shared. Share this episode with peers who may benefit from it if you find it insightful.
Your Feedback Matters: How did this episode resonate with you? Share your thoughts, insights, or questions. Your engagement enriches our community.
Stay Updated: Don’t miss out on further insights.
Subscribe: You can listen to our podcast, read our blog posts on Medium, Substack, and LinkedIn, and watch our YouTube channel.
Collaborate with The Disruptor and connect with John Kundtz.
Got a disruptive story to share? We’re scouting for remarkable podcast guests.
Thank you for being an integral part of our journey.
Together, let’s redefine the status quo!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Kundtz (00:00):
Seek and you shall find.
Killing the Directory Era.
Hi everyone, I'm your host,John Kunz, and welcome to
(00:21):
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
We started the podcast inDecember of 2022.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
And today's guest embodies thatspirit, John Lebeck, the
(00:45):
founder and CEO of Seek, whichis a new kind of experience
network that turns your phoneinto a compass for real-world
experiences.
Today we explore how to replacestatic search with creator
guided AI-assisted plans thatyou can actually book.
Welcome to the show, John.
John Leveque (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me, John.
Appreciate it.
What a great intro.
You nailed Seek.
I appreciate that.
All right.
John Kundtz (01:11):
Did my homework.
But for those listening, we dodo a prep call, and so we try to
get on the same page.
Actually, it's pretty cool.
I think you've got some reallycool disruptive things to talk
about.
But before we get into that,just tell us a little bit about
yourself, your background, youreducation.
How'd you get here today?
Feel free to start anywhere youwant.
John Leveque (01:29):
Awesome.
Yeah, my name is John Levesque.
As you said, I'm originally anEast Coaster, born in
Connecticut, moved to Seattlewhen I was 19, ran away from a
bit of a hard life, didn't go tocollege, tried it one time.
It wasn't for me.
In fact, funny story foreveryone, I didn't even finish
high school.
I dropped out of high school.
And so my education came fromself-teaching and learning along
(01:54):
the way the hard way.
So that led me to Seattle whereI got pretty lucky and I got
into tech.
I got a really, really bad jobat Microsoft where I was just
carrying around gear, setting upstages for people to talk.
But what was cool was that gotme in the doors.
I met a lot of people, I got abunch of different
opportunities.
I eventually started leadingcommunities and to cut a long
(02:17):
story short, eventually ended upspeaking on those stages that I
set up that many years ago,which was kind of a cool full
circle moment in life.
From there, I got to become anexecutive and lead community for
Microsoft, for DocuSign, andkind of got down the road where
I decided, you know, I'mbuilding a lot of value.
I understand how communityworks.
(02:38):
I want to build a communityaround something that I value.
And that's where this allreally began was I decided I was
going to leave the corporateworld and create something that
mattered to my heart and mymind.
I started Seek on the side,building it at night, and I got
a bit of a Sparta kick off thecliff not that long ago when I
(02:58):
got laid off from my job atDocuSign and decided to take
that moment and go full-timeinto building Seek, which I've
been doing now for close to fourmonths.
John Kundtz (03:09):
I love the story about how you were setting up
the stages and then you workedyour way on to being on the
stages.
So that's that's a pretty coolbackstory.
And so good.
So Seek is four months old.
But tell us a little bit aboutthat.
You know, everybody sort ofbuilds these things because they
see something that's not quiteworking or they feel like the
(03:30):
again, the whole purpose of thisshow is the disruptor is what
kind of stuff are you doing tosort of disrupt the industry?
But in order to do that, yougot to sort of take a back look
and say, you know, what arepeople doing?
What are some of the like thebiggest mistakes you see short
form creators and local expertsmake when taking what I would
call a more traditional approachto monetizing content?
John Leveque (03:51):
Yes, I but I want to call out one caveat to that
point you just made.
And I think short form creatorshave been doing the thing
they've been taught to do.
And the thing that's wrong isthe platform model that we've
been in, that we've believed tobe the only way.
And what I mean is, you know,and this to come back to your
(04:11):
title and what you introduced usas is the directory era is
dead.
I think when I say that, whatdoes that mean?
It's we look at how we'veorganized information for a long
time now, and it's directories,right?
It's lists, it's tables, andit's rows, right?
And that has taken so manyforms.
If you think of all the wayback to like, you know, I'm I'm
(04:33):
somewhat of an older guy.
Like I remember library, thelibrary system, the Dewey
Decimal system, pulling out adrawer and looking through
cards, right?
But if you think about it, thatwas just columns and rows.
And everything we search todayon the internet, if you go to
Google, it's just columns androws, right?
This topic, this link.
And so we have organizedinformation in a way that has
(04:58):
really been beneficial tomachines, right?
It's been it's been the waythat we've thought it should be.
But something changed.
Something changed in the lastfew years.
What's really interesting is weare rejecting the directory.
We no longer want to go andsearch the same reviews and and
sift through 400 of them to tryand find one that resonates with
(05:21):
us.
We no longer want to go andbelieve the star rating system.
Instead, the way that we aspeople today are finding
information and finding,specifically in my arena, what
we want to do or what we want toeat, it's social media.
72% of all decisions, intentends on social media.
(05:45):
And so, like when I decided Iwanted to go to Italy, how did I
figure out what I was gonna do?
I got on Instagram and Iwatched a bunch of creators make
videos about the best spots andthe best sandwiches, and then I
saved those things, right?
And I didn't do anything withthem.
And so Seek and how we'redisrupting everything is we're
trying to create aninstantaneous bridge between an
(06:08):
intent and action.
And so we've built a layer thatessentially consumes social
media content, videos,carousels, and then turns that
into a fully detailed, tippedout, mappable, shoppable guide.
We're calling it a sequence.
And so, what does that meanexactly?
(06:29):
So I put in an Instagram videothat's five days in Italy, I get
out a full itinerary with fivedays fully planned, with
everything mapped, with a bookit now link on it.
And the coolest part of it, andhere's where the big shift
happens in how we're disruptingtraditional platforms, we
actually share 60% of thatincome with the creator.
(06:53):
So if someone books somethingfrom their trip, they're getting
paid.
Instead of the platform takingall of that value, that we're
actually giving the creator thelion's share of that value
because they're the one thatcreated that value.
And so we have a whole set oftools and how they can monetize
and communicate with theiraudience.
But essentially, we're flippingthis model that the platform
(07:16):
takes all the value from thecreator entirely on its head and
giving the creator the power toreally monetize their audience
in a whole new way.
And so it goes, it gets reallyinteresting because suddenly a
creator with 10,000 followershas the same income potential as
a creator with a millionfollowers in the old model.
John Kundtz (07:35):
So that's cool.
I didn't really think of itlike that.
But what I think what you'resaying is the creators can still
be creators and keep doing whatthey do well and continue on
what they're good at.
What you're really disruptingis the user experience, the
person that is viewing orlistening to that content.
And therefore, by by givingthem a better experience, and
(07:57):
I'm a big fan of experiencedisruptors as well, so it's sort
of what you're doing.
So I, as the consumer of thatcontent, now I've got a better
experience, which, oh, by theway, in turn sounds like it
helps put money in the pocket ofthe creator.
John Leveque (08:14):
Exactly.
You know, there's I have a lotof stats.
I'm a stats guy, I love casestudies.
It on average takes a humanbeing around four hours to plan
a six-hour outing.
So, like your Saturdayafternoon, somebody's spending a
bunch of time trying to figureout where to go, what to do to
put that half day together.
They spent a half day somewhereelse.
(08:34):
Now, imagine if instead ofthat, when you're doing the
research, scrolling throughsocial media, you see the thing
you want to do.
Now, instead of you as the userhaving to take this whole set
of actions to go look up each ofthose places, possibly book
those things, figure out thedirections, note it all down
(08:55):
somewhere.
Instead, what will happen isyou would click on the video, it
would turn over, and everysingle one of those details is
completely outlined for you.
No thinking, no planningwhatsoever required.
Your your six-hour excursion onSaturday now took five minutes
instead of four hours.
And so, as the user, yes,extremely disruptive, extremely
(09:17):
different in the way that weprepare today because we use,
you know, if you think about itnow, it's Google, it's Yelp,
it's TripAdvisor, it's GoogleDocs, it's Google Maps, it's
Yelp.
Like there's just 20 differenttools that you're using to
attempt to get all theinformation you need.
We're just trying to simplifythat whole process and give you
everything right up front.
John Kundtz (09:38):
Well, and it's it's overwhelming, right?
It's and and then you don'treally know how much of it's
real.
So, you know, you don't knowhow much of it's been paid, you
know, or or you know, pseudo,you know, reviews and things
like that, I'm assuming, youknow.
And so I I sort of just ignoreit because I just it's too much.
John Leveque (09:57):
It's and I don't really trust it, to be honest.
Well, and think of it likethis, right?
Even let's say that let's giveeverything the benefit of the
doubt just for a second.
Like Google removed over 400million fake reviews in 2023.
Just just putting that outthere.
But let's let's go ahead andsay for the benefit of the doubt
that every review was real.
Here's the real problem we seewith something like Yelp or
(10:20):
Google Local or any of thesecurrent directories, also, okay?
They're not incentivized togive you the answer you want in
the moment.
When I'm looking for pizza,Google does not make money by
connecting me with the very bestpizza place right down the
street from me.
Google makes money when Iscroll through the list and see
(10:45):
more sponsored listings.
There's no incentive in theirbusiness model for delivery of
satisfaction.
There is only a business modelto keep me scrolling.
And so, again, when I, youknow, you said it.
I I love this line.
I'm trying to make the phone acompass and not a prison.
And this is exactly what I'mtalking about.
(11:06):
I want to return, like thewhole goal of Seek is to get
people out into life more.
John Kundtz (11:12):
The last thing I want to be doing is keeping them
scrolling for endless amountsof time, which is amazing
because pretty much every socialmedia platform, whether it be
LinkedIn or Google or you nameit, Instagram, anything, the
whole goal of these social mediaplatforms is to keep you on
their platform.
Right?
John Leveque (11:33):
I mean, they don't want you to leave the retention
economy.
John Kundtz (11:36):
Yeah.
And so what you're doing issaying, yes, your your job is to
find what you need and leaveand go have a great experience.
So is that you sort of talkedabout this, but I want to just
sort of highlight it becauseyou've you sort of lit into my
next question, which is more ofwhat are the sort of the mindset
shift or habits you wish thatboth the short form creator and
(12:00):
and the actual local expertwould take or adopt before like
again start posting the nextreel or the next Instagram book.
John Leveque (12:08):
There's a lot of culture amongst these creators
to gatekeep.
And and I understand thatbecause two reasons.
One, you want to keep yourfavorite places quiet, right?
As like a travel creator,you're like, well, I don't want
to tell them the best things.
I feel like there's aninteresting shift that has to
(12:30):
happen because I believe thatall humans should get to see all
the things they want.
There shouldn't be thisgatekeeper's mentality that only
allows certain people to seecertain things.
I don't like that.
But I think that to the secondpoint is there's been no
economic incentive for them todo so up until now, right?
Whether I share a crappy spotor my favorite spot, if it gets
(12:54):
the same amount of views, I getpaid the same, right?
My incentive on these platformsis not to go deeper, it's to be
more aesthetic.
Where I think with Seek,there's a greater opportunity
for those who are willing toshare the deeper secrets.
I think that they will have agreater economic outcome.
(13:14):
And we're making the system inthe way where, you know, we have
an option where you can keepsomething free and load it with
affiliate links and you get paidbased off those affiliate
links.
We're working on a model whereyou can strip out affiliate
links and just do direct sales,where if you just want to sell
someone the knowledge of thetrip and not put affiliate
marketing in it, you can dothat.
(13:35):
And so we're really trying toempower every creator to to
create and sell in the way thatthey want.
And so I think, you know, thethe direct answer to come back
around is is you know, find yourreason to stop gatekeeping.
And if that's an economic onefor you, then then Seek can help
with that.
And secondly, I think bespecific.
(13:55):
Like, don't be afraid to bespecific, especially for in the
case of Seek.
If you share that boutiquehotel that you absolutely loved,
there's an opportunity for youto earn from others going there
rather than you trying to get amillion views to earn anything
at all.
And so I think those smallshifts will probably make the
biggest impact when we thinkabout a traditional platform
(14:17):
versus Seek.
John Kundtz (14:19):
I like this approach because I think one of
the problems you have, if youhave a million followers, sort
of reminds me of that insurancecommercial a few years ago where
the guy was standing over thebeautiful vista and looking at
it, and then all of a suddenit's this isn't this great, and
then hopefully nobody finds outabout it, and then two seconds
later there's some woman in witha holding a Stanley cup and uh
(14:40):
and a self stick, you know,talking about gratitude and
absorbing abundance or somethinglike that, and then there's a
whole line of people behindthem, right?
They go, okay, they can't moveon.
And that's sort of, I think,the problem.
If you've got this giant, ifyour if your monetization policy
is or is to have high numbers,well, then all of a sudden
(15:01):
you've ruined whatever you'retrying to talk about.
Because if you if you find agreat restaurant but you can't
get a reservation for two years,or you go to a beautiful beach
in Italy, but it's just packedwith 10,000 people.
I mean, it's just for me,that's just not a great
experience.
You know?
So yeah.
And so I like this idea whereyou can you can help them make
(15:26):
some money, but you don't haveto have it's not a it's not a
Pete Pete Times Q game.
John Leveque (15:32):
On the other side of this all, right?
Like, I I have this story in myhead that I want to tell
someday, and I can't wait tofind this story in the world.
But I have this story of likewhen I think about the opposite
side of this equation, thelittle mom and pop restaurant,
where they make grandma'srecipes and they've been doing
it that way for 40 years, butthey don't have the know-how to
(15:57):
try and compete in the socialmedia game, they suddenly have a
chance because one person cancome in and tell the story.
Now, that one person who toldthat story, it might be harder
for them to get a reservationnext time.
But just think about the otherside that restaurant seeing life
like it's never seen life.
(16:18):
And so the other part of this,just you know, I think we're
going there, so I'm gonna sayit.
We have a vision down the roadwhere we can actually be a
middle layer where whenrestaurants engage with Seek, we
have a model in mind to be ableto help the restaurant succeed,
but then also make sure thatthe creator who helped that
(16:40):
success happen gets a chunk ofthat success.
And so there's a win-win foreveryone involved.
And and so I think, you know,in the immediate that point you
bring up, there is a danger whena million people go and visit
an alpine lake, right?
And I think that some of theprotections we've put in as far
as like selling the knowledge tousers and not just blasting it
(17:04):
out widely, it gives multipleincentives for the creator to
say, hey, you know what?
I'm gonna put a hefty price onthis.
A few people will buy it, I'mnot ruining my favorite place,
but also I'm putting somethingout in the world that other
people can enjoy.
And so we're absolutely keepingthat balance in mind and making
sure that we're we don't wantto overrun anything, but at the
(17:26):
same time, we want to giveopportunity to everything.
John Kundtz (17:29):
Nice.
You you basically just answeredmy last question.
Oh, I was I was gonna ask youtake these short form videos
into bookable mapped sequenceditineraries, and so just I was
gonna ask you what makes thisapproach so effective.
John Leveque (17:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I think you know, the bigbenefit for creators is trifold.
One, you don't have to go andcreate another medium.
If you are a video creator, wewill produce the web layer for
you, right?
And that's number one.
We do it for free, also.
If you want to share more ofyour profit with us, you don't
(18:08):
even have to pay us a monthlyfee to use our tools.
It's all free.
That's one.
Number two, the AI that doesthis transformation, you know,
it might be a little bold of meto say, but it's really, really
good.
It saves you a ton of time.
It understands fully what'shappening in your video and maps
it genuinely well in a way thatyou don't have to change a lot
(18:31):
if you don't want to.
And third, we're allowing youto have a connection with your
audience that no other platformdoes.
When someone engages with oneof your sequences on Seek,
they're your customer too.
We allow you to then haveaccess to them, to market to
them, to talk to them, to askthem how it went.
There's and and no otherplatform is allowing you this
(18:54):
openness in this way tocommunicate and build your own
business with your own audience.
And so I think there's a lot ofthings we're doing that are
pretty disruptive and unique,but everything that we're doing,
you know, why I think a creatorshould care, I'll kind of
change the question just a bit,is I think we are giving them an
opportunity to monetize whilethey sleep in a way that no one
(19:15):
else is offering them.
And so I think there's a it's abig, it's a big shift, it's a
big change.
And I I'm really excited forcreators to become aware.
We've been pretty quiet rightnow in the beta, but we're about
to get real loud.
Excellent.
John Kundtz (19:28):
This has been super cool, great, rich conversation.
It's disruptive, but there's aconcept of it that comes out of
the ocean strategy where youdon't have to be the Netflix
that puts Blockbuster out ofbusiness.
But you can have quietdisruption, which basically
allows the current market to dowhat they're doing, but pull
(19:52):
them into more of a blue oceanas opposed to this bloody red
ocean I'm assuming creators arestarting to get into, which is
just nothing but how many likescan I get, and how many views
can I get, and how manyfollowers can I get it?
So this is really, reallyfascinating.
So we're getting to the end ofthe show.
How can people learn more aboutyou, your services, your
(20:13):
socials?
What's the best way for peopleto sort of follow up on some of
these thoughts and ideas?
John Leveque (20:20):
Yeah.
S-e-e-q.ing seeking is the mainwebsite.
I also am on every social, likeon earth.
I think I literally have anaccount on all of them.
John J.
Levesque.
That's the same username acrossall of them.
I talk on LinkedIn a lot, Italk on threads a lot, I do some
YouTube, but I would say thesedays I'm I'm very much on
(20:44):
Substack.
And so if you want to read howI'm thinking about things, I do
a weekly update on Seek, wherewe're at, what we're building,
how I feel about it.
That happens on Substack.
And so multitude of ways to geta hold of me there.
Excellent.
John Kundtz (20:57):
We will obviously put all of those links in our
show notes.
I two them on Substack, somaybe we can get a few more
subscribers to each of ourSubstacks and uh promote uh your
link as well.
Alrighty, this has been reallycool.
So before we wrap up, John, Ialways like to give the guest
the last word before we finish.
John Leveque (21:19):
Awesome.
You know, I think there was onething that I wanted to say, and
it is I'm excited for us tomove out of this attention
economy and move into the trusteconomy.
I think it's a very excitingtime, and I'm excited to be part
of building it.
John Kundtz (21:35):
Great.
Me too.
I I think I'm 100% behind you,so I wish you the best.
Well, that's it.
So I'm John Kunz, and thanksfor joining us in this edition
of the Disruptor Podcast.
And remember, disrupt thestatus quo, reimagine what's
possible, and lead with purpose.
(21:55):
Have a great day.
Seek and you shall find.
Killing the Directory Era.
Hi everyone, I'm your host,John Kunz, and welcome to
(00:21):
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
We started the podcast inDecember of 2022.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
And today's guest embodies thatspirit, John Lebeck, the
(00:45):
founder and CEO of Seek, whichis a new kind of experience
network that turns your phoneinto a compass for real-world
experiences.
Today we explore how to replacestatic search with creator
guided AI-assisted plans thatyou can actually book.
Welcome to the show, John.
John Leveque (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me, John.
Appreciate it.
What a great intro.
You nailed Seek.
I appreciate that.
All right.
John Kundtz (01:11):
Did my homework.
But for those listening, we dodo a prep call, and so we try to
get on the same page.
Actually, it's pretty cool.
I think you've got some reallycool disruptive things to talk
about.
But before we get into that,just tell us a little bit about
yourself, your background, youreducation.
How'd you get here today?
Feel free to start anywhere youwant.
John Leveque (01:29):
Awesome.
Yeah, my name is John Levesque.
As you said, I'm originally anEast Coaster, born in
Connecticut, moved to Seattlewhen I was 19, ran away from a
bit of a hard life, didn't go tocollege, tried it one time.
It wasn't for me.
In fact, funny story foreveryone, I didn't even finish
high school.
I dropped out of high school.
And so my education came fromself-teaching and learning along
(01:54):
the way the hard way.
So that led me to Seattle whereI got pretty lucky and I got
into tech.
I got a really, really bad jobat Microsoft where I was just
carrying around gear, setting upstages for people to talk.
But what was cool was that gotme in the doors.
I met a lot of people, I got abunch of different
opportunities.
I eventually started leadingcommunities and to cut a long
(02:17):
story short, eventually ended upspeaking on those stages that I
set up that many years ago,which was kind of a cool full
circle moment in life.
From there, I got to become anexecutive and lead community for
Microsoft, for DocuSign, andkind of got down the road where
I decided, you know, I'mbuilding a lot of value.
I understand how communityworks.
(02:38):
I want to build a communityaround something that I value.
And that's where this allreally began was I decided I was
going to leave the corporateworld and create something that
mattered to my heart and mymind.
I started Seek on the side,building it at night, and I got
a bit of a Sparta kick off thecliff not that long ago when I
(02:58):
got laid off from my job atDocuSign and decided to take
that moment and go full-timeinto building Seek, which I've
been doing now for close to fourmonths.
John Kundtz (03:09):
I love the story about how you were setting up
the stages and then you workedyour way on to being on the
stages.
So that's that's a pretty coolbackstory.
And so good.
So Seek is four months old.
But tell us a little bit aboutthat.
You know, everybody sort ofbuilds these things because they
see something that's not quiteworking or they feel like the
(03:30):
again, the whole purpose of thisshow is the disruptor is what
kind of stuff are you doing tosort of disrupt the industry?
But in order to do that, yougot to sort of take a back look
and say, you know, what arepeople doing?
What are some of the like thebiggest mistakes you see short
form creators and local expertsmake when taking what I would
call a more traditional approachto monetizing content?
John Leveque (03:51):
Yes, I but I want to call out one caveat to that
point you just made.
And I think short form creatorshave been doing the thing
they've been taught to do.
And the thing that's wrong isthe platform model that we've
been in, that we've believed tobe the only way.
And what I mean is, you know,and this to come back to your
(04:11):
title and what you introduced usas is the directory era is
dead.
I think when I say that, whatdoes that mean?
It's we look at how we'veorganized information for a long
time now, and it's directories,right?
It's lists, it's tables, andit's rows, right?
And that has taken so manyforms.
If you think of all the wayback to like, you know, I'm I'm
(04:33):
somewhat of an older guy.
Like I remember library, thelibrary system, the Dewey
Decimal system, pulling out adrawer and looking through
cards, right?
But if you think about it, thatwas just columns and rows.
And everything we search todayon the internet, if you go to
Google, it's just columns androws, right?
This topic, this link.
And so we have organizedinformation in a way that has
(04:58):
really been beneficial tomachines, right?
It's been it's been the waythat we've thought it should be.
But something changed.
Something changed in the lastfew years.
What's really interesting is weare rejecting the directory.
We no longer want to go andsearch the same reviews and and
sift through 400 of them to tryand find one that resonates with
(05:21):
us.
We no longer want to go andbelieve the star rating system.
Instead, the way that we aspeople today are finding
information and finding,specifically in my arena, what
we want to do or what we want toeat, it's social media.
72% of all decisions, intentends on social media.
(05:45):
And so, like when I decided Iwanted to go to Italy, how did I
figure out what I was gonna do?
I got on Instagram and Iwatched a bunch of creators make
videos about the best spots andthe best sandwiches, and then I
saved those things, right?
And I didn't do anything withthem.
And so Seek and how we'redisrupting everything is we're
trying to create aninstantaneous bridge between an
(06:08):
intent and action.
And so we've built a layer thatessentially consumes social
media content, videos,carousels, and then turns that
into a fully detailed, tippedout, mappable, shoppable guide.
We're calling it a sequence.
And so, what does that meanexactly?
(06:29):
So I put in an Instagram videothat's five days in Italy, I get
out a full itinerary with fivedays fully planned, with
everything mapped, with a bookit now link on it.
And the coolest part of it, andhere's where the big shift
happens in how we're disruptingtraditional platforms, we
actually share 60% of thatincome with the creator.
(06:53):
So if someone books somethingfrom their trip, they're getting
paid.
Instead of the platform takingall of that value, that we're
actually giving the creator thelion's share of that value
because they're the one thatcreated that value.
And so we have a whole set oftools and how they can monetize
and communicate with theiraudience.
But essentially, we're flippingthis model that the platform
(07:16):
takes all the value from thecreator entirely on its head and
giving the creator the power toreally monetize their audience
in a whole new way.
And so it goes, it gets reallyinteresting because suddenly a
creator with 10,000 followershas the same income potential as
a creator with a millionfollowers in the old model.
John Kundtz (07:35):
So that's cool.
I didn't really think of itlike that.
But what I think what you'resaying is the creators can still
be creators and keep doing whatthey do well and continue on
what they're good at.
What you're really disruptingis the user experience, the
person that is viewing orlistening to that content.
And therefore, by by givingthem a better experience, and
(07:57):
I'm a big fan of experiencedisruptors as well, so it's sort
of what you're doing.
So I, as the consumer of thatcontent, now I've got a better
experience, which, oh, by theway, in turn sounds like it
helps put money in the pocket ofthe creator.
John Leveque (08:14):
Exactly.
You know, there's I have a lotof stats.
I'm a stats guy, I love casestudies.
It on average takes a humanbeing around four hours to plan
a six-hour outing.
So, like your Saturdayafternoon, somebody's spending a
bunch of time trying to figureout where to go, what to do to
put that half day together.
They spent a half day somewhereelse.
(08:34):
Now, imagine if instead ofthat, when you're doing the
research, scrolling throughsocial media, you see the thing
you want to do.
Now, instead of you as the userhaving to take this whole set
of actions to go look up each ofthose places, possibly book
those things, figure out thedirections, note it all down
(08:55):
somewhere.
Instead, what will happen isyou would click on the video, it
would turn over, and everysingle one of those details is
completely outlined for you.
No thinking, no planningwhatsoever required.
Your your six-hour excursion onSaturday now took five minutes
instead of four hours.
And so, as the user, yes,extremely disruptive, extremely
(09:17):
different in the way that weprepare today because we use,
you know, if you think about itnow, it's Google, it's Yelp,
it's TripAdvisor, it's GoogleDocs, it's Google Maps, it's
Yelp.
Like there's just 20 differenttools that you're using to
attempt to get all theinformation you need.
We're just trying to simplifythat whole process and give you
everything right up front.
John Kundtz (09:38):
Well, and it's it's overwhelming, right?
It's and and then you don'treally know how much of it's
real.
So, you know, you don't knowhow much of it's been paid, you
know, or or you know, pseudo,you know, reviews and things
like that, I'm assuming, youknow.
And so I I sort of just ignoreit because I just it's too much.
John Leveque (09:57):
It's and I don't really trust it, to be honest.
Well, and think of it likethis, right?
Even let's say that let's giveeverything the benefit of the
doubt just for a second.
Like Google removed over 400million fake reviews in 2023.
Just just putting that outthere.
But let's let's go ahead andsay for the benefit of the doubt
that every review was real.
Here's the real problem we seewith something like Yelp or
(10:20):
Google Local or any of thesecurrent directories, also, okay?
They're not incentivized togive you the answer you want in
the moment.
When I'm looking for pizza,Google does not make money by
connecting me with the very bestpizza place right down the
street from me.
Google makes money when Iscroll through the list and see
(10:45):
more sponsored listings.
There's no incentive in theirbusiness model for delivery of
satisfaction.
There is only a business modelto keep me scrolling.
And so, again, when I, youknow, you said it.
I I love this line.
I'm trying to make the phone acompass and not a prison.
And this is exactly what I'mtalking about.
(11:06):
I want to return, like thewhole goal of Seek is to get
people out into life more.
John Kundtz (11:12):
The last thing I want to be doing is keeping them
scrolling for endless amountsof time, which is amazing
because pretty much every socialmedia platform, whether it be
LinkedIn or Google or you nameit, Instagram, anything, the
whole goal of these social mediaplatforms is to keep you on
their platform.
Right?
John Leveque (11:33):
I mean, they don't want you to leave the retention
economy.
John Kundtz (11:36):
Yeah.
And so what you're doing issaying, yes, your your job is to
find what you need and leaveand go have a great experience.
So is that you sort of talkedabout this, but I want to just
sort of highlight it becauseyou've you sort of lit into my
next question, which is more ofwhat are the sort of the mindset
shift or habits you wish thatboth the short form creator and
(12:00):
and the actual local expertwould take or adopt before like
again start posting the nextreel or the next Instagram book.
John Leveque (12:08):
There's a lot of culture amongst these creators
to gatekeep.
And and I understand thatbecause two reasons.
One, you want to keep yourfavorite places quiet, right?
As like a travel creator,you're like, well, I don't want
to tell them the best things.
I feel like there's aninteresting shift that has to
(12:30):
happen because I believe thatall humans should get to see all
the things they want.
There shouldn't be thisgatekeeper's mentality that only
allows certain people to seecertain things.
I don't like that.
But I think that to the secondpoint is there's been no
economic incentive for them todo so up until now, right?
Whether I share a crappy spotor my favorite spot, if it gets
(12:54):
the same amount of views, I getpaid the same, right?
My incentive on these platformsis not to go deeper, it's to be
more aesthetic.
Where I think with Seek,there's a greater opportunity
for those who are willing toshare the deeper secrets.
I think that they will have agreater economic outcome.
(13:14):
And we're making the system inthe way where, you know, we have
an option where you can keepsomething free and load it with
affiliate links and you get paidbased off those affiliate
links.
We're working on a model whereyou can strip out affiliate
links and just do direct sales,where if you just want to sell
someone the knowledge of thetrip and not put affiliate
marketing in it, you can dothat.
(13:35):
And so we're really trying toempower every creator to to
create and sell in the way thatthey want.
And so I think, you know, thethe direct answer to come back
around is is you know, find yourreason to stop gatekeeping.
And if that's an economic onefor you, then then Seek can help
with that.
And secondly, I think bespecific.
(13:55):
Like, don't be afraid to bespecific, especially for in the
case of Seek.
If you share that boutiquehotel that you absolutely loved,
there's an opportunity for youto earn from others going there
rather than you trying to get amillion views to earn anything
at all.
And so I think those smallshifts will probably make the
biggest impact when we thinkabout a traditional platform
(14:17):
versus Seek.
John Kundtz (14:19):
I like this approach because I think one of
the problems you have, if youhave a million followers, sort
of reminds me of that insurancecommercial a few years ago where
the guy was standing over thebeautiful vista and looking at
it, and then all of a suddenit's this isn't this great, and
then hopefully nobody finds outabout it, and then two seconds
later there's some woman in witha holding a Stanley cup and uh
(14:40):
and a self stick, you know,talking about gratitude and
absorbing abundance or somethinglike that, and then there's a
whole line of people behindthem, right?
They go, okay, they can't moveon.
And that's sort of, I think,the problem.
If you've got this giant, ifyour if your monetization policy
is or is to have high numbers,well, then all of a sudden
(15:01):
you've ruined whatever you'retrying to talk about.
Because if you if you find agreat restaurant but you can't
get a reservation for two years,or you go to a beautiful beach
in Italy, but it's just packedwith 10,000 people.
I mean, it's just for me,that's just not a great
experience.
You know?
So yeah.
And so I like this idea whereyou can you can help them make
(15:26):
some money, but you don't haveto have it's not a it's not a
Pete Pete Times Q game.
John Leveque (15:32):
On the other side of this all, right?
Like, I I have this story in myhead that I want to tell
someday, and I can't wait tofind this story in the world.
But I have this story of likewhen I think about the opposite
side of this equation, thelittle mom and pop restaurant,
where they make grandma'srecipes and they've been doing
it that way for 40 years, butthey don't have the know-how to
(15:57):
try and compete in the socialmedia game, they suddenly have a
chance because one person cancome in and tell the story.
Now, that one person who toldthat story, it might be harder
for them to get a reservationnext time.
But just think about the otherside that restaurant seeing life
like it's never seen life.
(16:18):
And so the other part of this,just you know, I think we're
going there, so I'm gonna sayit.
We have a vision down the roadwhere we can actually be a
middle layer where whenrestaurants engage with Seek, we
have a model in mind to be ableto help the restaurant succeed,
but then also make sure thatthe creator who helped that
(16:40):
success happen gets a chunk ofthat success.
And so there's a win-win foreveryone involved.
And and so I think, you know,in the immediate that point you
bring up, there is a danger whena million people go and visit
an alpine lake, right?
And I think that some of theprotections we've put in as far
as like selling the knowledge tousers and not just blasting it
(17:04):
out widely, it gives multipleincentives for the creator to
say, hey, you know what?
I'm gonna put a hefty price onthis.
A few people will buy it, I'mnot ruining my favorite place,
but also I'm putting somethingout in the world that other
people can enjoy.
And so we're absolutely keepingthat balance in mind and making
sure that we're we don't wantto overrun anything, but at the
(17:26):
same time, we want to giveopportunity to everything.
John Kundtz (17:29):
Nice.
You you basically just answeredmy last question.
Oh, I was I was gonna ask youtake these short form videos
into bookable mapped sequenceditineraries, and so just I was
gonna ask you what makes thisapproach so effective.
John Leveque (17:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I think you know, the bigbenefit for creators is trifold.
One, you don't have to go andcreate another medium.
If you are a video creator, wewill produce the web layer for
you, right?
And that's number one.
We do it for free, also.
If you want to share more ofyour profit with us, you don't
(18:08):
even have to pay us a monthlyfee to use our tools.
It's all free.
That's one.
Number two, the AI that doesthis transformation, you know,
it might be a little bold of meto say, but it's really, really
good.
It saves you a ton of time.
It understands fully what'shappening in your video and maps
it genuinely well in a way thatyou don't have to change a lot
(18:31):
if you don't want to.
And third, we're allowing youto have a connection with your
audience that no other platformdoes.
When someone engages with oneof your sequences on Seek,
they're your customer too.
We allow you to then haveaccess to them, to market to
them, to talk to them, to askthem how it went.
There's and and no otherplatform is allowing you this
(18:54):
openness in this way tocommunicate and build your own
business with your own audience.
And so I think there's a lot ofthings we're doing that are
pretty disruptive and unique,but everything that we're doing,
you know, why I think a creatorshould care, I'll kind of
change the question just a bit,is I think we are giving them an
opportunity to monetize whilethey sleep in a way that no one
(19:15):
else is offering them.
And so I think there's a it's abig, it's a big shift, it's a
big change.
And I I'm really excited forcreators to become aware.
We've been pretty quiet rightnow in the beta, but we're about
to get real loud.
Excellent.
John Kundtz (19:28):
This has been super cool, great, rich conversation.
It's disruptive, but there's aconcept of it that comes out of
the ocean strategy where youdon't have to be the Netflix
that puts Blockbuster out ofbusiness.
But you can have quietdisruption, which basically
allows the current market to dowhat they're doing, but pull
(19:52):
them into more of a blue oceanas opposed to this bloody red
ocean I'm assuming creators arestarting to get into, which is
just nothing but how many likescan I get, and how many views
can I get, and how manyfollowers can I get it?
So this is really, reallyfascinating.
So we're getting to the end ofthe show.
How can people learn more aboutyou, your services, your
(20:13):
socials?
What's the best way for peopleto sort of follow up on some of
these thoughts and ideas?
John Leveque (20:20):
Yeah.
S-e-e-q.ing seeking is the mainwebsite.
I also am on every social, likeon earth.
I think I literally have anaccount on all of them.
John J.
Levesque.
That's the same username acrossall of them.
I talk on LinkedIn a lot, Italk on threads a lot, I do some
YouTube, but I would say thesedays I'm I'm very much on
(20:44):
Substack.
And so if you want to read howI'm thinking about things, I do
a weekly update on Seek, wherewe're at, what we're building,
how I feel about it.
That happens on Substack.
And so multitude of ways to geta hold of me there.
Excellent.
John Kundtz (20:57):
We will obviously put all of those links in our
show notes.
I two them on Substack, somaybe we can get a few more
subscribers to each of ourSubstacks and uh promote uh your
link as well.
Alrighty, this has been reallycool.
So before we wrap up, John, Ialways like to give the guest
the last word before we finish.
John Leveque (21:19):
Awesome.
You know, I think there was onething that I wanted to say, and
it is I'm excited for us tomove out of this attention
economy and move into the trusteconomy.
I think it's a very excitingtime, and I'm excited to be part
of building it.
John Kundtz (21:35):
Great.
Me too.
I I think I'm 100% behind you,so I wish you the best.
Well, that's it.
So I'm John Kunz, and thanksfor joining us in this edition
of the Disruptor Podcast.
And remember, disrupt thestatus quo, reimagine what's
possible, and lead with purpose.
(21:55):
Have a great day.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.