Allbound: Is It Inbound vs. Outbound Anymore? Do Even Labels Matter?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:01):
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are
you plagued by siloeddepartments? Are your lackluster
growth strategies demolishingyour chances for success? Are
you held captive by the evilmenace Lord Lack? Lack of time,
lack of strategy, and lack ofthe most important and powerful

(00:24):
tool in your superhero toolbelt, knowledge.
Never fear, hub heroes. Getready to don your cape and mask,
move into action, and become thehub hero your organization
needs. Tune in each week to jointhe league of extraordinary
inbound heroes as we help youeducate, empower, and execute.

(00:50):
Hub Heroes, it's time to uniteand activate your powers. Before
we begin, we need to disclosethat Devin is currently employed
by HubSpot at the time of thisepisode's recording.
This podcast is in no wayaffiliated with or produced by
HubSpot, and the thoughts andopinions expressed by Devin
during the show are that of hisown and in no way represent

(01:10):
those of his employer.

George B. Thomas (01:11):
There's no reason for that. Like, I can't
wait till he's back, and I thinkHe will be coming back. I can
yes. And I can play the introfully, but for right now,
there's just no reason.

Max Cohen (01:22):
Miss him.

I know. Dude.

Liz Moorhead (01:24):
Miss you, Devin.

Devin. Yes. I was I was talking to Liz about
this the other day. I'm like,man, where is he? Like, come on.
But, you know, it is what it is.

Max Cohen (01:35):
Hold on. It it's just this is one thing. It's one one
thing that I wanna that I wannawitness at Inbound this year.

Intro (01:44):
Oh. Oh.

Max Cohen (01:44):
The only thing that I have any vested interest in
seeing happen. It's not productson this like, new products on
the stage we didn't hear about.It's not, you know, seeing
friends and all this stuff. Itis watching the moment where
Devin meets Ryan Reynolds.

Oh. Do you think do you think he'll wear
the dead pool suit to inbound?

Max Cohen (02:10):
Better. Because if he doesn't, I don't know what he's
thinking.

I would be shocked.

Max Cohen (02:16):
Yeah. I that is just Devon, if you're listening, I
need to be there at that momentjust to see Mhmm. What you do.

I'm in I'm envisioning, like, like, a like,
you know how girls like, younggirls are, like, a Bieber fan
or, like, or, like, like, backin the day, it was new kids on
the block or or, like, I'm justOh, yeah. I was new kid. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm envisioning, like orlike a Swifty.
Like, I'm envisioning Devin,like, me not even knowing kind

(02:50):
of who

Max Cohen (02:51):
he is for Cooley.

The first couple minutes of, like, ah.
Like, that means Like

Donald Glover, it like like Donald Glover when he
was Troy in community, and hemeets LeVar Burton for the first
time, and he

just stops. That's what I think.

Max Cohen (03:03):
I think it's gonna be silent. It is.

It's gonna be beautiful. It's just a statue. A
Devon statue in the middle ofinvalid. Well Yeah.

Nature will be healing, folks. Nature will be
healing. But we we have adifferent we have a we have a
different conversation we neededto have today. And I'm so
excited because, George, when wewhen we said the word of what we
were gonna be talking abouttoday, you're like, yes. I like
this.
And Max went,

I don't like this word.

Not necessarily what it represents, but we are
gonna have a little bit of asemantic argument. And Max
likes, we don't need to get intothem.

Oh god. Yes. We do.

Yes. We do. Because ladies and gentlemen, we
are talking about the marriageof inbound and outbound today.

Yeah.

That's what we're talking about. And this is a
topic we've not necessarilydanced around in that we've been
avoiding it. It's more that, youknow, we've had we've had guests
on who represent more outboundopportunities. Right? We've
talked about direct mail.
We've talked about SMS texting.We even George, you and I with
our clients, we talk about themarriage Yeah. Of using paid

(04:08):
advertising strategies toamplify inbound strategies,
bringing those things together.And then when you and I had our
conversation a few weeks agowith Kyle Jepsen talking about
how HubSpot had changed, howinbound is evolving. He brought
up a term with that I I I love agood branding term.
I don't like things likesmartening, but he said the word

(04:28):
all bound. And I went

Max Cohen (04:29):
Yeah.

And there's Max's feeling. Max, Max, before we get
into the conversation around theblending of inbound and
outbound, could you could youput could you put some words to
those sides? Like, let's What?

Max Cohen (04:43):
You want me to define them? I have no freaking idea
how to define them. I mean, thisis, like, one of those things
where it's like I remember wehad that, person on to come
around and explain, you know,what, account based marketing
was. And I don't know if, like,we were all thinking the same
thing, but I was sitting therejust being, like, this guy just
explained inbound. Like, like,we didn't it wasn't even, like,

(05:06):
ABM.
You know what I mean? And, like,we talked about it. We had a
conversation around it. But,like, I don't know. The the
Allbound thing like, if Allboundis just doing in I mean, I don't
know I don't know how people aredefining it.
But if the answer is it's doinginbound and outbound at the same
time, I'm kinda sitting herejust wondering, like, hey. When
we were, like, getting all thesepeople into the idea of, like,

(05:28):
doing inbound, it's not likethey stopped doing outbound. So,
like, is this really a newconcept? You know what I mean?
And I feel like it's justanother one of those things to
just be another marketingbuzzword to fuel, like, the next
generation of, like, AIassisted, you know, scraping and
stuff like that.
That is just like I don't know.It's kinda freaking me out a
little bit. But I also don'tknow what it means, but I also

(05:49):
hate, like what? Has everyonealready forgotten about
Nearbound that we were talkingabout, like, not too long ago
with the whole partner ledmotion?

Yeah. Exactly. I am today years old hearing about
that.

Max Cohen (06:00):
Was here, right, especially when, Rosie was
talking about. There was thiswhole nearbound thing, and then
I heard Matt Bolian over atSuper, who I love, talking
about, like, surroundbound. And,like, all this I'm like, dude,
how many bounds do we freakingneed, dude? And it's just like
So there's too many. And I'mjust like, stop calling things
down.

Sounds threatening.

Max Cohen (06:21):
It's the new putting dot l y or dot I o at the end of
your, like, business's name.Like What's name of your
company? Not saying. There's nodot. Right?
But we're not we're we're we'rewe're no better. Right? But,
like, I don't know. Just maybe Idon't know what all round is,
but go ahead.

So so here's the thing. Like, first of all, I
think we're gonna have thatconversation of kind of what it
is or at least when when I hearthe word and when Kyle says the
word, where my brain goes.Because I wanna step back for a
second. I wanna talk abouthumans. And, usually, us humans
are good at one thing and notnecessarily good another.

(06:58):
And what I mean by that, Max, ismost humans, if you stop and
think about it for a second,we're really good at living in
the land of or. We're gonna dothis. We're gonna do that. And I
will tell you that I canremember when people started
talking about content marketingand then inbound marketing
showed up, you would seearticles, about how print design

(07:23):
is dead and it's dying andpeople quit placing ads in
magazines. And, you can drivedown the road and because of
what happened with inbound,there are a plethora of wooden
large boards that have nothingon them, down the freeway
because people did or we'regonna do inbound because we're

(07:48):
not gonna do what what wethought we were doing no longer
works.
This is the new way. And, again,humans live in the ore. What
what I think we're talking abouttoday is that business has,
especially in today'senvironment, it's there's no
other word. It's freakingchallenging. Like, things are

(08:11):
always changing.
Humans are changing. Like, it'sjust crazy. And so I think what
we're almost saying at afundamental level is have we
have reached a point, not havewe, but we have reached a point
where, like, it's less about orand it's more about and. Mhmm.
But but when we're talking aboutthe inbound and outbound, it's

(08:34):
inbound and out bound withmodern buyer, human human
centric, servant basedstrategies that can be measured
in ways that historical, airquotes, outbound people weren't
doing.
So, like, it's a this and thiswith two x three x amplifiers on

(08:59):
the thing that we left behindlong ago.

So here's what I wanna jump in here for a moment.
So it I know we're gettingcaught up in the semantics of it
here. And, Max, I do hear whatyou're saying. It's like every,
what, two to six months bound.Some marketers yeah.
Somebody's somebody's running

My turn.

Out of a yeah. Somebody's running out of a of a
meeting going, I've got it,guys. I've got it. I spent a
bunch of time with a whiteboardand a marker, and I figured it
out. And they have a new namefor something of something that
we're already doing.
Are you making fun of me rightnow? No. You just you just,
like, take a nap and found acompany. Like, I have to watch
it. I can't Yeah.
I can't leave you alone for toolong, or I'll start getting

(09:38):
things like, hey. Look. I wrotea whole book while you were
asleep.

I'm

like, wait. What?

There might be a fourth company on the way, by
the way. But anyway okay.

What's the third? No.

I mean, well, we've got George b Thomas LLC.
We've got Sidekick Strategies,and we've got Beyond Your
Default. We literally alreadyhave three companies, but there
might be one

Max Cohen (09:57):
that I'm not gonna work. George's, wacky, all bound
emporium. It's gonna be a newone.

Yes. That's the next

wacky, waving, inflatable, or wailing tube men?

Hang on. Let me let me let me check the, let
me check the domain if that'savailable.

Max Cohen (10:11):
Yeah. George's George's wacky, wild, Allbound
Emporium.

Oh, I'm I'm gonna trademark that.

Max Cohen (10:21):
Can you

set up a can you set up a booth in club inbound
with wacky waving inflatable See

Max Cohen (10:25):
if someone's already bought All Boundly. Please. I
guarantee it.

All Boundly.

Max Cohen (10:31):
All Boundly. No. No. You know what? I'm checking it.
Let's see. Yeah.

I'm looking it up. All Boundly. Guys?

Max Cohen (10:37):
All Boundly.

If it's available, there's a party
happening. Like, we're gonna topoff.

Max Cohen (10:44):
Be reached. Let's see. Let's go

I'm going to go daddy. Let's see what they got.
What do we have?

Real time domain searching. That's what
you signed on for, ladies andgentlemen. We're we're literally

Remember that time I was driving? Remember that
time I was driving the car?Yeah. It's unavailable. Oh my
god.

Max Cohen (11:00):
It's Guys, it's unavailable.

Somebody bought it.

Max Cohen (11:04):
I hate everything, dude. I I'm slightly getting
sick

to my stomach.

Max Cohen (11:10):
Everything. This is like so like oh god. And you
know they've probably gotten,like, seven seven offers for,
like, a million dollars for thatdomain. I literally hate
everything. Yeah.
Oh, wow. IO's availableaccording to Chad. That's wild.
That's gonna be gone in twoseconds. Chad, buy it.
Make a bad day.

Chad, let me go buy it, and I'll be right
back, guys.

Max Cohen (11:31):
Oh my god.

Okay. Alright. Well

Chad, grab that domain. I'll pay you back
in sandwiches.

Max Cohen (11:37):
I'll pay you back $7,000.

Pickle and peanut butter sandwiches,

whatever that is in inbound. Yes. Yeah. Let's
go. Brother.
So excited to know why we'rehere. We should we should who's
driving this car?

Max Cohen (11:51):
Dude, Liz.

I don't know. This is the captain. No. What are you
talking about? I don't know.

Max Cohen (11:56):
I don't even think

we're in the car right now.

No. Well, let's get away from the semantics of
it for a second because I thinkyou bring up a really good
point, Max. Like, we have thiskind of, like, nomenclature.
Like, do we like the name? Do wenot like the name?
Doesn't really matter. Let'sstep away from the name for a
moment and talk about theprinciples behind it because we
started in the inbound ecosystemof, like, in outbound's bad.
Don't do it anymore. The onlyway is inbound. You have to earn

(12:20):
everything.
And we're starting to see thiscreep back toward the center.
This starting to creep backtoward moderation. So, George, I
actually wanna start with youfor a moment. Has your position
evolved with the idea of inboundversus outbound or inbound and
outbound? Like, did you start asa purist and then bring outbound
methodologies back into thefold, or have you always been a

(12:43):
an all boundly kinda guest?

No. God no. Literally, when 2012, HubSpot
inbound, I was like and by theway, you have to remember, I
come from, like, print design,like, first. Like, that's my
mentor, Eric Jacobs, literallywas like, we were designed. And

(13:05):
then in 2012, learning aboutHubSpot and inbound, I literally
was a org guy, Max.
That's why I brought that up.Like, I'm like, oh, let's go do
this thing. It's shiny, and it'sbright, and it's inbound, and it
makes sense because I hatefreaking phone calls when I'm
eating dinner. And I I hate spammessages and direct like, yeah.

(13:25):
Let's hop on this train.
And so literally to the point ifand if you if you've been in
this space for a while, theredidn't always used to be an ads
tool because ads wasn't inbound,ladies and gentlemen. Like and
then all of a sudden, the adstool showed up. No. No. No.
There was many a year where adswas looked at by inbound purists

(13:46):
of, like, oh, that's kind oflike a, I don't know. That's
interruptive. Interruptive.Doesn't even matter. Inbound.
Yeah. And and and so so, like, Ithink about this, and I I
literally was like an inboundpurist. And then all of a sudden
ish started to change. And,like, some of the things that
were just die hard tried andtrue inbound strategies, all of

(14:10):
a sudden you start to hearpeople, which sometimes they
were doing it for effect, x y zis dead.

Max Cohen (14:16):
And you're

like, well, that's part of inbound.

Max Cohen (14:18):
Like, that was The best part the best part was when
you'd see inbound marketing isdead. Go read my blog post and
download my ebook to tell youwhy. It's like, you're insane.

Like, dude or dudette, you're like an idiot.
You're literally using thechannel to talk about the thing
instead. Anyway

So no. My personal favorite hold on. My personal
favorite is when everybody wasgoing after SEO is dead. Here's
why. But it was called SEO isdead because that's the term
that people were searching for.

Yes.

So they were only getting all the traffic to the
SEO is dead content byoptimizing for SEO

is dead. Crazy.

I just love everything.

So here's the thing, though. Right? If I think
about this, then all of a suddenI started seeing things, working
with clients, where all of asudden there was these massive
successes. Like, one historicalclient, we went ahead and did a
print ad in a magazine. And wesat back and we had, like, a oh
god moment.

(15:14):
I have another client right nowthat one of the best sources for
lead generation Billboards. Ikid you not. And so all of
these, like, historical outboundtactics that people left to the
wayside that all of a sudden gotreal quiet because there wasn't
a lot of competition, now thefolks who that are are have

(15:37):
embraced inbound, embrace themethodology philosophy of
inbound, but also are startingto play or tease in these other
noncompetitive areas that stillhave viewership's eyeballs can
gain attention, now all of asudden there's becoming this

(15:57):
understanding that there'sactually probably a healthy mix
of certain strategies on bothsides that when combined create
potentially a more powerfulstrategy mix for a business than
just inbound or just outbound.And therefore, we get to coin a
phrase that makes Max itchcalled allbound.

Tell me more how you love that phrase, Max.

Max Cohen (16:22):
But I don't love the phrase. I I, I mean, am I so am
I just to, like, make sure,like, I'm understanding how
we're defining it is, like, arewe saying all bound oh my god.
It's a huge spider. Oh my god. Idon't like that at all.

Oh, yes.

Max Cohen (16:39):
I love spiders. God. How am I gonna do this now? Oh,
anyway. Alright.
So, I mean, is the way that I'munder dude, it's a huge, huge
spider just swept by this.

Are you just gonna be worried the whole time?
You're gonna sit here trying todispense, like, inbound advice.
You're worried you're about toget eaten alive.

Max Cohen (16:55):
I hate spiders so much, dude. Holy crap. Okay.
What was I saying before I sawthat dog walk across my wall? I
think, like, the

You were saying, like, how how are we
defining So, like,

Max Cohen (17:07):
they may you know, if we kinda had to smooth brain
this down just for me, like, isit is are we just saying, like,
alright. Allbound is, like,you're doing inbound, plus
you're not doing shittyoutbound?

Well, here here here's the deal. Like,
inbound market is

Max Cohen (17:23):
because, like, what because vaults you around.
Because I feel like that's whatI was telling everybody to do
forever even if they were doinginbound. So I'm like, me sitting
here, I'm just like, wait. Youmight

have been the creator. You might have been the
creator of Allbound. You justdidn't name it.

Founder. Founder. Dot I o.

I was just deploying common sense.

L I.

Max Cohen (17:43):
I was just deploying common sense because when I
would get customers that wouldhave the marketing come and say,
cool. Here's a great way to,like, you know, get folks leads
that actually wanna talk to you.And they're like, you know, I
don't think anyone ever said,should our salespeople stop
doing what they're doing? And ifthey ever did say, I'd be like,
no. This is just another waythat they can get, you know,
better fleets back then.
Like

Well well well, first of all, we gotta be
careful because as much as Ilove the Humans. Sometimes when
we use the word common senseYep. And, it doesn't even seem
so common. It it's not so commonsometimes, because we're we're,

(18:24):
again, we're really good atgetting blinders on and
following the shiny object andhaving the squirrel moments. But
but, Max, if I can step back fora second, like, when I think
about inbound marketing, inboundmarketing revolves around
creating a mag a magnetic force.
Literally, if you remember backmany well, several inbounds on

(18:44):
stage, they've had some type ofmagnetic or magnet in a in a
PowerPoint presentation that,and it's it's to naturally draw
customers to your brand. It'sby, offering helpful, relevant
content, and it positions yourbusiness as a trusted adviser
guiding potential customersthrough their decision making

(19:06):
process. We call it the buyer'sjourney. And this method is more
about engaging with the customeron their terms in a way that
feels natural and organic. K?
So if we take that thinking andthen we're just like, let's run
over here real quick tooutbound. Outbound marketing is
the classic approach wherebusinesses broadcast their
message to a broad audiencehoping to capture the attention

(19:28):
of potential customers. It'smore aggressive strategy often
associated with pushing productsor services directly to
consumers, whether they'reactively looking for them or
not. While it can be effectivefor brand awareness, immediate
sales, it often lacks thepersonalized touch of inbound
marketing. So here's where weget to the crux because now

(19:49):
we've, like, looked at inbound,we've looked at outbound.
When we use the word All bound.I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing
that for Max just to give him alittle extra oof with it.

Max Cohen (20:00):
I thought you dare. But allbound marketing all

allbound Wait.

I wasn't on mute when I just screamed, did I?
Because normally I try to keepmyself on mute.

You are not muted. You're like, oh my.

That was violent. That was violent.

So outbound marketing is this comprehensive
approach that recognizes thestrengths of both inbound and
bound outbound marketing butredefines them through this. And
this is, I think, the importantpart that I would want everybody
to get. It redefines themthrough a customer centric lens,

(20:36):
and it's about using outboundtactics in a way that feels as
personalized and valuable aswe've been doing with inbound
and making sure inbound effortsare as scalable and impactful as
historical outbound ones couldbe. The allbound strategy
ensures that every touchpointwith the customer is designed to

(20:57):
add value, foster trust, and bemeasurable, creating a cohesive
experience that aligns with thecustomer journey. This approach
not only drives growth but alsobuilds lasting meaningful
relationships with youraudience.
That's how I would take and,chunk these three out amongst
each other.

I have a question even though I'm the one Yeah.
Ask the question. Yeah. So okay.Because I kinda I see what Max
is saying in that we're puttinga fancy label on something that
I think a lot of people are alsonaturally organically doing.
But is this a situation where wespent, what, almost a decade

(21:39):
saying that inbound was not onlythe way, it was the only way,
and we we rejected everythingelse. And now we're trying to
kind of walk it back and be alittle bit like, so my bad. Well
we don't wanna get rid ofeverything.

You can tell me that.

Don't wanna get rid of everything. And and now
we're putting a nice label on itand pretending like we founded
something new.

Max Cohen (22:03):
But but

I I mean, you could you could well, first of
all, we gotta be careful becausewhile we might have been
thinking this way, I can tellyou that I've worked with
hundred, if not hundreds, ofbusinesses that have not been
thinking this way. But if I gointo what you're kind of

(22:23):
laughingly saying, Liz, yes, wecould we could sum this up in

whoops. One might say that. Whoops. Like, that's
that's where it gets real that'swhere this gets very interesting
for me because and what you justsaid there. Right?
I have not gone a single day,month, week, or year in the
inbound space without having aclient or having a conversation

(22:48):
where a blended methodology waseither recommended, considered
appropriate, or there waspushback on the just totally
pure inbound only forever andever type of approach. Right?
And so it it's it it I'm I knowthis is kind of like a half
baked idea that I'm getting at,but it's like, did we just take

(23:09):
ourselves to all bound therapyand figure out as the
practitioners of this that maybewe should have a more diverse
toolbox?

I well, yes. I do believe diversity in
strategy, especially in theworld that we live in right now,
is at a it's paramount. Becausetrust me, as somebody who is
trying to do this and, havehappy humans inside, happy

(23:37):
humans outside, and figure outall the ways to make it
successful, I I I need morestrategies. I need more ways to

Max Cohen (23:47):
do this. George, can you can you read the tail end of
that, like, the the last thingyou were saying of how they were
explaining, like, the sales sideof allbound where it was, like,
providing value at these touchpoints throughout the like, what
was that last, like, sort ofbet?

Well, so now that's interesting because you
said sales, and I never said

Max Cohen (24:08):
sales. Sales.

But, but I said, well,

Max Cohen (24:12):
was it wasn't there a bit

bit of that to sales.

Max Cohen (24:15):
Definition that was talking about the sales side of
it or the outbound

side of it? Outbound. Outbound talked about
the sales, being moreaggressive.

Max Cohen (24:24):
I guess I'm just thinking sales when I think
outbound. Yeah. Yep.

What which and that's the thing. We literally
did a whole video. I'm trying tothink if we released it yet, but
the, outbound marketing versusinbound marketing and how many
Yep.

And we have an article

about it. How many people think what outbound
marketing is actually outboundsales, and outbound sales and
outbound marketing are totallydifferent. And I immediately
when we created the first video,I go, holy crap. We probably
need to do a video that is,outbound marketing versus
outbound sales. I mean becausepeople just so so for some
reason, lump it all in like it'sthe same thing.
It's not. But to get back toyour ending that you asked for,

(25:01):
it's, the very last sentence ofit, says this approach not only
drives growth but also buildslasting, meaningful
relationships with youraudience. But and there's a part
about value and fostering trustand all

Max Cohen (25:16):
that stuff. I think. It was, like, the part before
that where it was, like, sayingwhat you did by, like, valuable
touch points or something likethat? Or

So here, allbound marketing is a
comprehensive approach thatrecognizes the strengths of both
inbound and outbound marketingbut redefines them through a
customer centric lens. It'sabout using outbound tactics
scalable and impactful asoutbound. The outbound strategy

(25:47):
ensures that every touchpointwith the customer is designed to
add value, foster trust, and bemeasurable, creating a cohesive
experience that aligns with thecustomer journey, blah blah blah
blah. So you might have beenchasing the spider.

Max Cohen (26:00):
Like that last part is just like I feel like that
describes every single strategylike this that we hear about.
That, like right? And, like, theother part too is, like, the
outbound side of things, to mealso feels a lot like I mean,
remember when we had the inboundsales certification? Right?

(26:21):
Like, seems kinda familiar.
You know what I mean? But it'sjust again, it's just like
that's why I just get sothere's, like, a big piece of me
that it's just like when you sayor, like, when I hear that I'm
not saying this is yourdefinition. I'm saying when I
hear that, I'm just, like, we'veheard this before. Like, just
plain old describing inbound.Right?

(26:43):
Like, customer centric, valuabletouch points, deep into
relationships, like, all thiskind of stuff. But it almost
just feels like they added theword outbound in there and
called it all bound, and it'slike the same definition of
inbound. Because if you were tosay all that back to me again
without the word outbound inthere, I feel like it's also

(27:06):
still just describing inbound.Right? Or am I crazy?

Well, I don't think you're totally crazy, but
I think there's a a subtle mindshift in slight directions both
ways. And, again, I think maybethe bigger part of this is
trying to embrace the fact thatand I started with this, by the
way. We live in a world thatinstead of or, we need to focus

(27:31):
on and. And when we focus onand, it's how do we I think of,
like, what's that? Strengths,weaknesses, like SWOT analysis.

SWOT analysis. How do you SWOT

analysis inbound? And how do you SWOT
analysis outbound, and how doyou make both of them for your
organization be the dopest, mosthuman centric, strategized,
measurable thing that now you'reyou're living, like, in this
kind of, I'll call it, differentworld or different mindset

(28:08):
because it's almost like and,again, I'm I'm going in analogy
mode. Right? It's almost likefiring on six cylinders instead
of four or eight instead of fourin this case.

Max Cohen (28:19):
Is there's a piece of me that wanders. And I think I
guess, I'm okay with it if thisis, like, the case. But do you
think HubSpot kind of veryintentionally introducing this
all bound concept? Becausehere's the thing. Have you heard
like, can you go on HubSpot'swebsite and see the word all
bound?
Like, is that a thing?

I've never seen it. I've never tried to
find it on how to do it.

Max Cohen (28:42):
You haven't you haven't you haven't seen Brian
Halligan spin an all boundflywheel. Right? Yeah. They
haven't, like, said, we're allbound. We're all bound.
We're all bound. But all of thesudden, they release a card with
the word all bound on it. Theall bound timeline card. Right?

That's the only thing I just found.

Max Cohen (29:04):
Yeah. And very interesting because, one, talk
about a completely pointlessname for a CRM UI card. Right?
Because all all the I you know.I know.
I know. I know. It's inbound andoutcoming stuff. I get that.

Right? Well but be careful because HubSpot
has not said this yet. The CRMis only a small portion of what
is a customer platform. I know.And if you are building a
customer platform, you must payattention to that some of your
customers come from inbound, andsome of your customers come from

(29:43):
outbound efforts.
Therefore, you need to have acard that measures all bound in
your customer plat

Max Cohen (29:51):
Yeah. But but

versus your CRM that is the holding space
for all data.

Max Cohen (29:56):
But all bound is this big beautiful definition that we
just gave. The card is saying,here are things that you sent
out. Here are things they sentyou. Is that, like you know what
I mean? And so what I almostwonder That's simple.
No. No. It's just like you couldjust call it, like, the income
like, you you could just callit, like, the communication

(30:17):
time, like, the, calendar. Idon't know. There's I think
there's Well,

even Nick said just a timeline. Get it.

Max Cohen (30:22):
Yeah. Just a timeline.

He literally just said just a timeline.

Max Cohen (30:24):
Right? But why did they give it this name? Right?
And there's almost a piece ofme. Because here's the thing,
when you look at it and you seeAllbound, which is this big
fancy word that none of usreally have been using, and all
of a sudden, it's a card inthere.
It's kind of awkward to name itthat because then it almost
seems like when I first saw it,I was like, oh, is this like an
integration with some other toolcalled Allbound? Right? And

(30:45):
that's immediately what Ithought. I was like, oh, wait.
No.
This is just like a nativeextension showing incoming and
outgoing emails and calls andstuff like that. Right? In this,
like, kind of awkward way. Icould get it. It's cool, but
it's like kind of an it's likehere's a horizontal version of
the thing that you're looking atthat's just up and down.
Like I in and I almost feel likeit was a way for them to test

(31:10):
putting the word all bound outinto the universe and see how it
was received. Right?

Yeah.

Max Cohen (31:18):
Because I think what HubSpot has probably found
itself in is being locked intothis inbound narrative while the
outside world is saying, it'snot just inbound anymore. It's
outbound led inbound and,surround bound and and near
bound and all these other boundsand inbounds getting left in the

(31:40):
dirt. And I feel like HubSpot'snoticing that. I think they're
probably saying, hey. We have tochange the perception that we're
not just this inbound marketingtool.
We also have all of these greatoutbound sales tools, and we're
building a whole, you know, hugeinvestment in AI. We went out
and purchased Clearbit. We didall these, like, we're doing all

(32:02):
these things and putting allthis investment into saying,
like, hey. We kinda realizepeople want more than just to,
like, create content and getpeople to come to them. They
also want their salespeople tobe absolute vipers and have the
tools that they need to go go gogo go go go and go outbound.
Right? Because not everyone'sgonna get inbound spun up so
quickly, and we've gotta be ableto sell the CRM on its own

(32:22):
without Marketing Hub. Right?So, like, you know, because so
then where's the inbound thingthere when you're just selling
like Sales Hub. Right?
And so, like, what I thinkthey're probably doing is
they're like, it just seems likekind of like a lot to call that
time card this big word thatwe've never seen that is way
different than the one wordwe've always seen. Right? And I

(32:44):
almost feel like they're testingthe waters to see how the
community reacts to it. And Ithink one day, they will ditch
inbound for allbound. And Ithink this was them testing this
because they realized it can'tjust be an inbound tool.
It has to be an outbound tool,but outbound's a yucky tool for
us.

Now a customer platform. It's not an inbound
platform. It's a customerplatform.

I I literally I I yes. So, Matt Yeah. Now
you've had an epiphany moment.

Max Cohen (33:10):
I'm I'm I'm a conspiracy theorist right now is
what I'm being.

Yeah. Well, that but it's good. That's
that's good. So how does it feelto be the first person creating
a piece of content that's goingto be testing the waters that
we're paying attention to whatthey're challenging, and we're
challenging, and we're usinginbound SEO words that Max hates

Max Cohen (33:37):
to put an order in an episode of. I love the word
inbound. It's the OG. It's theoriginal. It's all about.
It's all about. It's the ranchdressing.

But how does it feel to know that you're part
of a piece of content that we'recreating right now in the moment
that we will have people willcome and read, come and listen,
and they'll be able to weightheir opinion on if they love
the idea of all bound, ifthey've been always using a
mixed strategy, if they are someof those humans that live in the

(34:05):
world of or instead of the worldof and. Like, we're on the
ground floor of understandingcustomer platform, the new
position of CRM, the fact thatthere is a new card in there
with this term in it. Like, whydo you

Max Cohen (34:20):
think we're here today, dude? Like, I feel I feel
great. It's cool talking aboutit. I'm also slightly terrified
that maybe I'm uncovering somemassive conspiracy and a, hit
squad could show up to my housebecause I'm, you know, I'm I'm
But

but here's the thing. Blowing

Max Cohen (34:34):
up the the Illuminati here. Yeah. But but here's the
thing.

I love that kind of stuff. Like, I love
being able to to create stuffand lean into what we think
might be happening because,like, here I I told somebody the
other day, the day that HubSpotlaunches the HR hub, I have a
clip from, like, four or fiveyears ago where I said the next
hub needs to be the I willrelease that on the Internet

(34:59):
Yeah. And be like, told you.Same thing here. Like, I'm I'm
working with Chris Carolyn.
We have a HubSpot, customerplatform hug. We're knee deep in
the trenches. We're payingattention to all the
conversations that need tohappen there. We're we're
looking at, like, oh my god.Things are shifting and

(35:19):
changing.
And when things shift andchange, it's it's from, words
and associated words andsoftware start to move around
and, like and I don't thinkenough people realize what is
shifting underneath our veryfeet from a SaaS platform
because they're paying attentionto how the modern customer is

(35:45):
buying and what they're payingattention to and where they're
paying attention to, and they'redoing their best to build a
platform that fits all of thoseneeds for businesses.

So I wanna interject here because I think
what is interesting is that thisreminds me of a conversation
that you and I, George, have alot with one of our clients
where they get really squirrellywhen we use words like always or
never. Right? And you know whoI'm talking about. Shout out to
Sean and his team at QDS. Welove you guys.

And gals.

Hi. You know, and and he brings up a good point
because you never wanna putyourself into a kind of an box
yourself into an absolutistcorner. Yep. Because they're
very strong in terms of thelanguage they use about we keep
our promises. We have penaltiesaround our like, they are very
they are absolutist in that way,in their purpose, in their
mission, how they fulfill thosepromises.

(36:34):
But, Max, you're bringing up areally good point here in that
we have and George as well. Wewe did we absolutest box
ourselves into a corner withinbound? And now we're seeing
the reaction, the expansion, thegoing back into this idea of you
know, when I was first writingthis episode and thinking about

(36:55):
what I wanted to talk abouttoday, the one of the questions
I have here is and you guys arealready answering this. Is it
either or anymore? And theanswer is no.
Yeah. It's not.

Yeah.

And I think that's what we're realizing here.
George, take it away.

But be careful because what we have to realize
is what we may have needed inthe moment was inbound.

We needed an intervention.

An intervention. Inbound was an
intervention. It was a it was amovement. It is a movement.
Still should be there.
There was a methodology. Therewas literally a Bible, the
methodology to the religioninbound, right, if you if you
really wanna break it down.Here's the thing, though. Over
this last ten, twelve, fourteenyear period, cultures have

(37:38):
changed, humans have changed.There was massive chaos, you
know, years back that justchanged the way that we think,
the way that we act, the placeswe work.
And so maybe now the smartpeople that knew we needed an
intervention are realizingthere's a next level. There's a

(37:59):
new intervention. There's ashift. There's a change, which,
by the way, if you pay attentionto Brian Halligan's this is not
an inbound episode. But if youpay attention to Brian
Halligan's historical keynotes,it was always about what was
changing, and they were let usletting us know it was changing
before we actually kind of knewit was changing.

(38:21):
And then all of a sudden, wepaid attention to that it was
changing. Very interestingly, weneed to know things are
changing, and they'll continueto change. And those of us that
can pivot and become transitionspecialists in our business
again, what we're talking abouttoday is all bound, lean into a
more and and, Liz, I can't getaway from it now that I'm

(38:43):
starting to use these hframeworks, a more holistic
approach to what we're doingfrom a marketing and sales
strategy.

I just can't help this feeling, though, that,
like, if any of our clients arelistening right now, they'd be
like, well, duh. This is notbrand new information to us.
Like, our inbound marketers justwaking up from a fever tree.
That's that's what because I'mI'm genuinely challenging myself
here. I can't think of a singleclient I work with, a single
business I work with out therewhere I would be breaking their

(39:17):
brains open in some sort of,like, lightning rod way saying,
so you know we could do both.
Wild. You know? It's very rarethat I say something that makes
you both silent. I've gotta knowwhat you're thinking.

Well, I thought Max started to say
something. So I was like, let mehear what he what where homies
at right now. Oh, no.

You just love this conversation. I can feel it with
every fiber of my being. Or areyou still hiding from the
spider?

Max Cohen (39:42):
Looking. I'm actively seeking the spider because I was
kicked out.

Is that Yeah.

Max Cohen (39:47):
I brought I got my bug in. So how did you not
notice that?

He got the a while back, he brought that in,
and I think it was Chad was,like or maybe Nick was, like, do
you feel safe now?

Max Cohen (39:56):
I do feel safe now.

I feel very safe.

Max Cohen (40:00):
Kind of. A little bit safe. My dog's here, so
hopefully, she'll fight it orsomething. Oh, the dog deleted
it. Yeah.
Yeah. Or delete the dog. I don'tknow. It's pretty big. Yeah.
I don't know. It's like, I I dothink it's I do think it's just
another example of, like, youknow, hopping on the hey. We we
need a new name for something tomake it sound new, but we're
doing the same thing. Right?Like, I don't know.

(40:22):
Like, if they like, if they wereif they if they do a whole new,
like, all bound flywheel or,like, some other methodology
thing, I don't know. I'mprobably gonna lose my mind
because it's gonna end up justbeing the same version of the
same thing. Much like the youknow, when they changed from the
inbound methodology to theflywheel, it literally was the
same thing, only they justcombined two things and turned

(40:42):
it into a circle. Right? Andit's like, I really just hope
because, like, the the flywheelis just it's honestly just it's
perfect.
It's perfect. And I don't thinkit can it needs to get more
complex than that. Right? But,like, if we do something weird
with an all bound flywheel andit's different or something like
that, and it just makes it morecomplicated than it needs to be,

(41:04):
I'm not gonna be happy about it.And I'm gonna be verbal about
it.
But I don't know. I'm just I'mjust so sick of bound bound
bound bound bound bound boundbound bound. Like, I'm just so
over it.

We should make a song and just use the word
Bound bound

bound bound bound bound.

Oh, that's actually already a song. Isn't
that a Valentine? I don't know.Is that what you're doing?

Max Cohen (41:25):
Oh, Barbara.

I

was doing Barbara Ann, but that's

fine. Barbara Ann. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Beach Boys?

Max Cohen (41:30):
Actually, a lot. I do love this tape from Nick and
Chad. It says, allbound is a wayfor them to reclaim inbound
without being tarnished byoutbound sig stigma. I agree
completely. I like I don't likeI don't think HubSpot wants to,
like, do the defeatist thing tosay, like, oh, you know, we were
so hard on inbound the wholeway.

(41:51):
Right? And and and if there wereany sort of public sense of,
like, here's what we wanna do tohelp outbound, what happens is
the public backlash from thatwas like, oh, see. They were
robbed the whole time inboundinbound, and Us sales bro doing
outbound, smashing the phones,smiling and dialing, and using
AI driven lists we scraped offof, you know, the back of a van

(42:15):
or whatever was like, awesome.Warm up those IP address, guys.
Let's do some cold emailoutreach.
Like, they just don't wanna looklike they're losing to that
crowd. Right? It's like what Ifeel like. Yeah. So, you know,
and they're not losing to thatcrowd.
That crowd is cringe. Like,totally, it's cringe. But, like,
you know, they're creating toolsthat, like, serves that audience

(42:36):
and serves those customers thatwant that stuff that still don't
wanna do the tough work thatinbound is. Right? Like, you
know, say what you want aboutall the stuff that we've done
with, you know, AI and ContentHub and, like, all that stuff.
It's like creating content anddoing inbound marketing is still
10 times harder than blasting abillion emails out, like, to a
list of people. Right? Like, itstill is harder to do. You know,

(43:00):
while, sure, there are thingsthat make that stuff easier,
like, you still see peopledeploying it in, like, a really
terrible way. Right?
You know, because humans arehumans are greater human. Right?
Yeah. Yes. Totally.
And it's just I don't know.

This is the whole reason for the other side
of things that we do. Humans aregonna human.

Max Cohen (43:19):
Humans are gonna human.

So we so we created Beyond Your Default.

Max Cohen (43:22):
But, like, the thing is is, like, I don't think
HubSpot needs to get away frominbound. Right? Inbound can be a
strategy within a group ofstrategies you're deploying.
Right? I think that's okay.
I don't think we need to totallyrename the idea of what allbound
is because allbound, if it meansall things, then it doesn't mean
anything. It doesn't meananything. It takes away the the

(43:45):
physical fundamental differenceof what inbound is. Right?
People coming to you instead ofyou just going to them.
Yes. Your salespeople are goingto have to deploy a certain
amount of going to them withoutthem coming to you. There are
good and bad ways of doing that.Sure. Right?

(44:06):
But the fundamental process ofsaying, hey. Are we creating
reasons for people to find us,consume our stuff, trust us, and
buy a like, buy from us? Right?Because they're coming to us.
Right?
They're finding out we existwhen they have no idea that we

(44:26):
exist. We are helping themfigure out that they have a
problem that they didn't evenknow they had. We are educating
them. We are creating things forthem. We are building things for
them.
That is a whole thing by itself.I think to just say, oh, yeah.
It's all that and plus, like,better ways of, like, getting
your sales reps to go outboundon people. I think it totally

(44:49):
value. It, like, almost makes itthat is that much more important
and that much easier than thisother big thing when the truth
is that whole outbound thing isalso really, really tough if you
don't already have a goodinbound motion.
Because where's all this, like,wonderful content they say to
use to create these valuabletouch points with people going

(45:11):
outbound if you have no inboundmotion creating that content?
Right? Like, what I I I justlike, inbound amplifies outbound
so much. Right? Yeah.
That it's really hard to juststand out outbound on its own
without expecting to just, like,spend a ton of money on, like,
paid lists or use some weirdsketchy data scrapers or, like,

(45:34):
really do some crazy invasionsof privacy. Right? But it's
like, oh, it's all fine becauseit's AI assisted, and it's this
and it's that, and it'swhatever. It's the next big
thing. I just don't want the artof inbound to be devalued by
saying it's the same thing asyou.
I'm a He he is. Impurist, dude.I am.

He he is an impurist.

Max Cohen (45:55):
I'm a little bit I'm realizing this now. I am real.
Yeah.

Yeah. He he's an inbound purist.

Max Cohen (46:00):
No. No. No. But that's not me. I think a purist
is someone who says, you just dothis and you don't do that.
I'm not that person. I'm aninbound realist, my friend. Oh.
We're yeah.

Okay.

Max Cohen (46:11):
The This is like an art movement.

We're moving from, like, inbound impressionism to
realism.

Max Cohen (46:16):
Because, dude, dude, inbound is based a lot on, like,
just the reality of how thingswork. I talk about inbound
physics all the time. Right? Howis someone gonna find you if
they don't know you exist?They're not.
Right? So they're looking forother stuff. Okay. Make that
stuff that they're looking for.Right?
That's realism. Right? Anotherpart of the realism is like,

(46:38):
yeah. Sure. Your marketers andyour team and your whatever
could do the whole inboundmotion.
Right? But one, is it gonna taketime to get off the ground? You
bet your ass. Is it gonna take alot of experimentation to figure
out what works? Yep, you betyour ass.
Right? But do your salespeopleneed to sell in the meantime?
And also, b, deploying their ownefforts in, like, different ways

(46:59):
that they can do it withouttotally relying on what
marketing's doing? Because, hey.Guess what?
Maybe hire some inboundmarketers. Right? And they don't
do that good, and it takes alittle while to figure out how
to get the right people on boardthat have the talent to create
the content, put it all togetherin a good story, deploy it, get
the right software, do whatever.Salespeople still gotta be
salespeople without a % relyingon marketing to just feed them

(47:21):
MQLs. Right?
So you do gotta figure out theright ways and the wrong ways of
doing inbound. You gotta do bothat the same time. That's
realism, not purism. Right?

So so there's a couple takeaways here. I just
wanna unpack this a little bit.One, it almost sounded like you
said inbound enables outbound,which it like, marketing,
inbound marketers enable or, youknow, sales to do better, be

(47:54):
better because of the content.So I love that piece. The other
thing I heard is next week onHub Heroes, Max is gonna do the
physics of all bound.
He's got a slide already builtout

Max Cohen (48:06):
for it.

But but here's the thing. I also give me a
second because I I I wanna jot anote down in my travel guide.

Max Cohen (48:16):
What?

I officially have decided that I need to pack
a defibrillator, to bring itinbound because, when Max is in
the audience and somebody fromstage, Andy Petri, Dharmesh,
whoever it may be Here's

Max Cohen (48:30):
the allbound pedigree.

Yeah. Yamini. When when all of a sudden from
the stage, somebody says theword all bound, I will run over.
I'll use my defibrillator, and,brother, I will save your life
in the middle of the crowd atinbound Oh god. Because I think
you would have of an aneurysm ora heart attack if you heard the
word all bound come from themain stage.

Max Cohen (48:51):
It's gonna, dude. It's gonna it's gonna happen.
I'm telling you, man. Like, thisis the what an unnecessary name
for that CRM card. Right?
Like, it it it confused me.Right? And it's just, like,
they're testing the waters tochange the name of it. That's
what I feel. You know?

Yep. I'm I don't disagree. I

mean, think about how think about how we heard
about it, George. It came up soorganically and naturally during
our conversation With? WithKyle.

And we Somebody

Max Cohen (49:22):
Oh. Who

works at home.

Max Cohen (49:23):
So they're sending hold on. Kyle's the goat. I love
Kyle. So they're sending theirpeople out there to workshop the
name and reporting back to it. Iwant I wonder if Kyle's part of
the conspiracy.

But here's the thing. I don't know if it was
Illuminati. Yeah. I don't knowif it was on purpose, but here's
the thing. For someone to usethe word like they're used to
using the word.
They have to have been hearingthe word. So it makes you
wonder, which, again, is whywe're here. There's a card with

(49:59):
it. We heard it dropped for abrief second in another,
episode, and and I was like,Liz, inbound versus outbound
versus allbound. We gotta do anepisode.
We got to unpack.

Max Cohen (50:11):
Next is gonna be next is gonna be found bound, and it
was just like a lead you foundon the side of the road, and you
decided to go. Found bound isjust when you find business
cards and you call

on the crowd. It's when you it's when you pull all
of the pants and, pants, pensand stickers and all those
things that you got at the,like, inbound one year, and
you're, like, you just startcold calling people.

Max Cohen (50:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's when you, it's
when you cold DM people and go,oh, I found your profile on
LinkedIn, and I saw that you'realso with the Internet
technology space.

Wait. Hold on. Question. Do I need to create a
custom object for foundboundmemes? Is that, like, a separate
channel?

Max Cohen (50:49):
Yeah, dude. Foundbound. That's the next one.

It's right next to the gum underneath the
tree.

Max Cohen (50:53):
Dude, you know what it is? Oh, it's clown bound, my
guy. Clown bound, dude.

Hey, George. Ask me again who's driving this
episode.

Liz, who's driving this episode?

I have no idea because we've abandoned the
outline long ago. We have wehave gone found bounding on the
side of the road. Captain now.

For beautiful I almost can't keep going
because because Chad I don'teven know if I should say this.
But, Chad, I hope we don't getcanceled. But Chad literally
said, it's the number on theinside of the stall. That's
found bound.

Call found bound for a good time.

Max Cohen (51:30):
Oh my god. God help us. Oh, jeez, dude. Yeah.

Well, George, why don't you help me land this
plane here Oh

Max Cohen (51:37):
my god.

As best we can. I would love to hear from you
because Yeah. This was aconversation we knew we needed
to have. Yeah. And I knew thatthere was a fifty fifty risk of,
like, I I will just startsetting the outline on fire
within five minutes of the theepisode big.
Yeah. Well, because it's highlyit's not a highly experimental
topic, but it's just one ofthose things of, like, we all
have a lot of feelings aboutthis. Yeah. And it is it is a

(52:01):
conversation that we needed tohave, and I think we're gonna
have to have it again. I it'sone of those things where I'm
like, I wish Devin was here, butI almost want him to listen to
it and then come back and readus the riot act in a way that
only Devin can do with hiseyeball an inch from the camera
where he yells at us, and thenwe say we're sorry.

Yeah. It's But, George It's either gonna be
a Slack message that says, yes.You guys are awesome, or what
the f are you thinking?

Max Cohen (52:25):
No. It's see, that's why

you wanna

Max Cohen (52:26):
hold on. Hold on. That's why he's not here because
they're putting him throughsome, like, you know, all bound,
all bound, brainwashing bootcamp or

something like that.

No. That is not why. Anyway

Is it is that, like, one of those things where,
like, remember, like, at, like,outward bound where, like, you
have to go it's like outwardfound bound? Like, is that what
we're doing

Max Cohen (52:47):
here now? Outward bound bound. Like, that's that's
why we gotta it's like you justit's it's you're doing inbound,
but you're doing it in thewilderness.

You have to attract you have to attract the
campfire to you. You can't goout and

Max Cohen (53:00):
create your mosquito

repellent. Oh

Max Cohen (53:02):
my god. Oh my god. You're too

scared to be mosquitoes.

Yeah.

Here's why you shouldn't bite me. So, George,
land this plane for us because,obviously, we we need help.
Don't land it. Just keep flying.

No. I need to land this bad boy. Holy crap.

George, I would be so curious to hear what your
takeaways are from thisconversation because you and I
both came into this conversationon a fact finding mission. Yeah.
Find out what we actually feelabout this.

Max Cohen (53:27):
Yeah.

So what are the things that you learned that you
want our listeners to be payingattention to?

Yeah. So there's a couple things. One, we
now know that Max, his new titleat Happily will be inbound
realist. Will be hit instead of,chief evangelist of happily. So
we're gonna change his title.
But but in all honesty, for forme, it's interesting because I

(53:50):
didn't know where thisconversation was gonna go. I was
excited to see where thisconversation would go. The fact
that Max is paying attention tomicro pieces of the software and
saw the card, the fact that wealigned because of something we
heard on an an episode, andwe're able to sit here and

(54:13):
create this piece of contentthat people will be able to
listen to, have their ownfeelings, have their own
opinions, that serves thepurpose that I'm actually trying
to get here. My big takeaway forthe listeners, though, is and
it's funny because, Liz, yousaid you haven't met a client
that wasn't thinking of it froma this and that process or

(54:34):
pushed against. I can tell you,I've met many that the only
thing they were doing was, like,inbound slash content marketing,
and they had left to the waysidethis piece.
My takeaway is those days areover. I don't give a rat's
caboose what you call it, butyou need to be, playing and

(54:54):
teasing out the idea of thingsthat you once thought were off
base. Have you sent postcardslately? Have you done a print
brochure like a booklet styleand actually tried to put it on,
you know, a decision maker'sdesk? Have you have you actually
tested billboards?

(55:15):
Have you done a calling systemin a way that is different than
the historical way that wehated? Like, if you're sitting
here and you can't say yes toany of those things that
historically were outbound ortraditional marketing or
traditional sales, I wouldchallenge you to test it again.
But test it in a way that alignswith the methodology and

(55:39):
philosophies that we've pickedup over the last ten, twelve
years of being a good human, ofadding value, of building trust,
of it being an interaction thatis more based on future
relationship than immediatetransaction.

Max?

Max Cohen (55:59):
Oh, I

Did you get the spider, buddy?

Max Cohen (56:01):
I thought he was gonna end the episode on that
because it was epic. And now yougot me just awkwardly being
like, what? I didn't know ifanything was done.

Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of
another episode. Will Lord Lackcontinue to loom over the
community, or will we be able todefeat him in the next episode
of the hub heroes podcast? Makesure you tune in and find out in
the next episode. Make sure youhead over to thehubheroes.com to
get the latest episodes andbecome part of the league of

(56:33):
heroes.
FYI, if you're part of theleague of heroes, you'll get the
show notes right in your inbox,and they come with some hidden
power up potential as well. Makesure you share this podcast with
a friend. Leave a review if youlike what you're listening to,
and use the hashtag, hashtag hubeuros podcast on any of the
socials, and let us know whatstrategy conversation you'd like

(56:56):
to listen into next. Until nexttime, when we meet and combine
our forces, remember to be ahappy, helpful, humble human,
and, of course, always belooking for a way to be
someone's hero.

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