July 4, 2024 • 48 mins
What if grief isn't just something to survive, but a powerful catalyst for personal growth? In this episode, I sit down with spiritual psychologist and conscious grief guide, Tara Nash, who shares her remarkable journey of transforming her pain into profound personal evolution. Tara opens up about her experience with unconscious grief after the loss of her parents and how it led her to a career in spiritual psychology. Discover why she believes recognizing and addressing grief is crucial, and how many therapists and coaches may miss the mark due to insufficient training in this area.
Men often grapple with societal expectations that stifle vulnerability, making emotional openness a rare commodity. Drawing from my personal story, I discuss the transformative journey from emotional non-acceptance to acceptance and the critical role that supportive friendships and personalized healing practices play in this process. Tara offers actionable tools for processing grief and reconnecting with love, highlighting the importance of emotional openness for a fulfilling life. Whether through creative outlets, physical exercise, or other healing modalities, we underscore the significance of finding what works for you.
Grief can ultimately shift us from feeling like victims to becoming creators of our destiny. Drawing on principles from spiritual psychology and Buddhist traditions, Tara and I explore how life's challenges can be reframed as opportunities for growth. Hear personal stories of spiritual awakenings through grief, the power of connecting with loved ones who've passed, and the importance of self-care during times of loss. Embrace the potential for significant personal growth and transformation that comes when you commit to your well-being. Tune in to appreciate every moment with loved ones and evolve into your best self through life's adversities.
Tara Contact links:
Website: https://www.consciousgrief.co.uk/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/taranashyoga
Conscious Grief Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/consc...
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tara_nash_s...
LinkedIn:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In this episode I'm speaking with author Tara Nash.
Tara is a spiritualpsychologist and conscious grief
guide, and she helps peopletransform heavy emotions like
grief and helps people findtheir center again.
Enjoy this enlightening episode.
Hello and welcome to the JamesGarnson podcast Super Soul Model
(00:30):
series, where I help peopletune and tap in to their natural
state of well-being.
This week I have returningguest Tara Nash.
Tara is a spiritualpsychologist and conscious grief
guide and she's just writtenher first book, conscious Grief
Transforming Pain into Evolutionand Growth.
I'm so excited to have Taraback on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, thank you so much for having me back, James.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Since our last conversation, which was probably
about a year ago, you've beenguiding people through a
conscious grief program.
You've been doing lots ofprograms, perhaps a little
retreat.
You've been doing onlinesummits, really helping people
heal through this consciousgrief.
Give us a little recap aboutwhat conscious grief is and
(01:15):
perhaps maybe you could justtell us a little bit about your
story again so we can refreshthe audience about how we can
potentially help them in thatword grief, because it seems a.
It seems quite a heavy word,but when I speak with you I get
a lot of joy from you, tara, soit just shows what you've done,
uh, with your own process.
So fill us in a little bitabout what conscious grief is
(01:40):
and your own story, if that'sokay.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, I guess my experience waskind of unconscious grief for
many, many years, because myfather died in 1990 of a heart
attack and my mother died in2002 of breast cancer, and I
(02:04):
didn't really know anythingabout what grief was or how it
impacted you.
I don't think my mother eitherreally delved into it.
You know, when my father diedwe just kind of we were brave,
we were strong, we didn't reallystop and process it.
(02:24):
In fact, my mother gotremarried very quickly, um,
which was not a good marriage,so then she went through a
divorce and I could always, Iwould always think about how,
you know, stress impacts us andI often wondered my mother
getting breast cancer?
She was a very sort of healthyperson in terms of diet and
(02:47):
exercise and and yet she gotcancer.
And I I just mimicked my motherreally when she died, that I
would just not kind of let this,these deaths and sadness, slow
me down or stop me from gettingon with life, um, but I I was
(03:09):
always internally struggling andquite um sort of having a quite
a low level of of depressionreally and, but, you know,
determined to not, you know, letit affect me what is a low
level of depression?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
what?
What does that mean?
Is that just like you just feeldepressed in the background, or
what?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I would say it was, um, just a kind of apathy, like
I don't care if I'm here or nothere, like what is the point of
life?
Know?
I just wasn't feeling any realkind of joy and excitement for
being alive and I was alwaysreally questioning, like what's
(03:54):
the point of it all?
From a young, young age, right,and I started having, I tried
with therapy in my very early20s I felt very ashamed of going
to see a therapist.
It was something I wasextremely secretive about.
I didn't find her to besomebody particularly helpful.
(04:17):
I always struggled inrelationships.
So that's kind of what wouldget me to seek help, not
thinking, oh, I need to processthe death of my parents, um, and
then it was.
And then my late 20s, I didfind a good therapist, but again
, we were taught talking a lotabout you know what happened in
(04:40):
my childhood and realizing thatthat was a big trauma and I
hadn't allowed myself to eventhink of that as a trauma.
Leave losing my father verysuddenly of a heart attack when
I was nine.
So that was good.
You know, I started to havetherapy.
I worked in fashion beforehandand then I started to do, you
(05:03):
know, self-development workshopsin this therapy and I became
quite, uh sort of enchanted bythis world and I started
thinking I'm not really happy infashion anymore, I'd like to
move my career into somethingthat's more about helping people
.
And I found this master'sdegree in Los Angeles called
(05:27):
spiritual psychology, and I'dbeen I was always quite enamored
with the US.
I had friends who are moving toNew York and I was kind of
going to visit them.
So I found this, this program,and I moved to LA and I started
studying spiritual psychology,and it was during that two years
(05:47):
that I I started to process mygrief, because in the second
year we had to choose a projectof our choice and I decided to
base my project on death andgrieving.
Um, I mean, I won't go into thefull story, but that's what,
how the book begins, um and uh.
(06:10):
So it was you know, however,many years later, over a decade
later, that I actually picked upbooks about grief and I thought
, my goodness, why, why has thetherapist or the coaches that
I've been working with?
They haven't ever reallyexplained to me what grief is
(06:30):
and how it can impact us, and alot of my experience and my
behaviors started to make sensebecause, of course, it was
really directly related togrieving but I hadn't been aware
of it and I hadn't beenconscious of it and I didn't
know when I started that programthat you know, sort of talking
(06:52):
about death and grief would bewhere I would land.
But I was so kind of, I was sosort of lit up that there was
all this whole community and youknow, all of this knowledge
around a subject which I hadbeen dealing with for most of my
life and and yet I hadn't umresearched it, I hadn't looked
(07:16):
into it and I was quitesurprised how a lot of
therapists or coaches they won'thave a lot of training on grief
it while they're doing that um,while they're studying.
So, unless you've had a verydirect experience of a big grief
, I think it's almost somethingthat you have to have an
experience of um.
(07:37):
But obviously grief there's.
It can be all kinds ofdifferent grief.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
It doesn't have to just be um, it's not just the
death of a person yeah, it couldbe like a relationship breakup
or it could be, you know, a lossof something you know.
Yeah, yeah, it's usually a lossof something because you feel
disconnected, which is whysomething that was secure is has
(08:01):
been taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Until you can return back to yourself where you feel
that inner security again, whichis basically what your book's
all about.
I'm fascinated by your book.
So when you're talking aboutyour book, you know you talk
about, like this, why it's soimportant to be mindful of grief
.
Tell us a little bit about that, because that's quite
(08:27):
fascinating, because sometimeswe're not even aware of what's
happening.
And it said you were justsaying I wasn't even aware that
I was grieving for years or mostof my life.
So if someone's listening inthe audience, you know like
you'd be, like yeah, I feel alittle apathy or I feel this, or
I feel that I don't feel likemyself, because when you feel
yourself, you feel fulfilled,you feel filled up, filled up
(08:48):
with within.
But if you're, if you're notfeeling great, you're just sort
of existing or getting by.
That's not really living.
And in your book you know, you,what is the mindfulness and
intentionality behind, likeunderstanding, like this
conscious grief, and why is thatimportant?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, for my experience, I went into a state
of, you know, which most peopledo shock, when my father died
and I that I decided that it wassafer to not feel because the
feelings, you know, was sooverwhelming, and also I was
(09:30):
watching a lot of adultsbreaking down and crying, so I
was like, oh my gosh, I don'twant all of these emotions, I
don't want to put that onanybody else, and so I basically
went into numbness for a longtime, you know, and that's that
(09:50):
is normal at the beginning.
But it's not normal to staythere for years and years and
years.
And if you, you know, if you'rein that place of numbness, then
of course you know you're notgoing to be able to feel like
you say, you're not going to beable to feel like you say,
you're not going to be able tolive fully because you're
turning the volume down on thereally painful feelings.
(10:12):
But you can't just choose toturn the volume down on certain
feelings, you know.
You turn them down on on theexcitement and the joy and the
wonder and awe of life too, andthe joy and the wonder and awe
of life too, and so when I thinknobody grieves in the same way
and you may have to notconsciously grieve because your
(10:36):
life might not have the spaceand the time to be able to sit
with your feelings.
If you have a busy job and youngchildren and you don't, you
know, you just haven't got thespace in your life to really
like have those days of feelingand crying and processing or
(10:56):
being angry.
So you never know when it'sgoing to come for you.
And I do believe that ourconsciousness will present what
needs healing when you're readyto heal it.
And I don't want people to sortof think, oh well, my father
died, I'm going to read thisbook and I'm going to follow the
(11:19):
instructions and then you know,these messy, uncomfortable
feelings will subside and I willnever have to revisit them.
Unfortunately, you know, griefisn't like that and we don't
know when we're going to havethe feelings come up.
But if you're conscious andaware of things that you're
(11:40):
feeling, I mean that's reallywhat it is.
Things that you're feeling, Imean that's really what it is,
and a lot of us, I think it'sdifferent in the next generation
, but we were never taught to bein touch with our feelings and,
as most of us, as soon as wefeel anything uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
You know we reach for a distraction yeah change that
usually some sort of addictionor whatever.
Can I ask a question why is itthat most women are more in
touch with the feelings than men?
From your experience as being aconscious grief guide, and I've
(12:17):
got to ask that question do youtend to have more women come to
your type of workshops andthings that you do than, yeah,
you do yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I do, um, I mean, I think women are just generally
more able to talk about theirfeelings, um, because that's
been more socially acceptableand many men from a young age,
you know, of a certaingeneration, were told don't cry,
you know, be strong and bemacho.
(12:50):
Yeah, and those.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's the messaging from an old programming, you
know, which I think is changinga lot and when, in my schooling
and when I grew up, you know,everything was exactly like that
.
So like you gotta show zeroemotion, you gotta make sure
you're strong and hard, um, butat the same time it doesn't stop
you feeling or trying not tofeel those feelings, because
(13:15):
they do come up, whether youlike them or not, even if you're
a guy.
Um, but I'm fascinated.
I always, I I've always thoughtthat maybe women are more in
touch with their emotionsbecause of their body and just
the natural DNA of being afemale in gender.
And men's natural inclinationis to want to provide and have
to protect, and that protectionmeans I'm not going to let any
(13:37):
vulnerability seep in.
But actually then you can'tactually begin to nurture
yourself and nurture anybodyelse unless you let that in
anyway.
So it's a bit of a catch-22, um.
So in my own healing journeyI've, you know, looked at myself
and gone okay, it's okay to be,uh, a man and it's okay to also
be open and share my feelingsas well.
(14:00):
It took a long time.
I remember even my sistersaying like you never tell me
how you really feel.
You know, you always say, yeah,it's fine, it's fine, but I
know you're not fine and I'mlike yeah, so it took me a
little while until actually afriend of mine so any guys
listening a friend of mine saidhe goes buddy, you know it's
okay for you to tell me how youfeel, I'm not going to judge you
(14:24):
.
You to tell me how you feel,I'm not going to judge you.
And I was like wow, that wasthe first time that had actually
been allowed in my life when Iwas growing up.
I was like I've been allowed toactually say, oh, I don't even
know what this feeling is, but Iknow it's not my centered
feeling, I know it's not joyright now, or I know it's not,
you know, know an optimisticfeeling.
And then that's the process, orat least in my experience, of a
(14:50):
male being able to go.
I can be open to a feeling andjust accept it for what it is
rather than try and push it away.
So if there's someone listeningwho's struggling right now, in
your book you sort of talk aboutthe emotional and the spiritual
aspects of conscious grief howcan someone find that peace
(15:16):
again?
You know, between those twoaspects, the emotional and the
spiritual, to find that harmonyagain, because you know your
journey is so unique.
You were in that space ofextreme non-acceptance to then,
so total acceptance, and nowyou're helping so many people,
tara, you know what?
How would someone in theaudience who's struggling right
(15:38):
now find that balance?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
well, I think you you mentioned the word intention
before.
I think you have to have a, youknow, curiosity and an
intention to find what is goingto work for you, and maybe
you're gonna have to try variousmodalities of healing and for
(16:04):
some people, talking aboutwhat's going on for them is
helpful.
Maybe for other people it'screative pursuits like art, or
it could be physical forms ofexercise or journaling, um, so,
you know, really it's findingwhat works for you and I would
(16:25):
encourage people to try, youknow, multiple forms of
processing, because what theproblem that we have?
If we, if we don't process itand allow it to the energy of
the grief to move, you know itbecomes stuck inside of us.
And that's when, you know, weeither start having physical
(16:49):
ramifications like aches andpains, or maybe you get IBS, or
perhaps you know you get seriousback pain, yeah, and and the
breath, the lungs, is where wehold the grief, so you might
have short and shortness ofbreath.
I mean, broken heart syndromeis a real thing and this happens
(17:11):
a lot.
When you know people who'vebeen together for for many years
, one of them dies and then theother one may, you know, get
something to do with the heartthat that then also makes them
very unwell or even they die.
That happened with my umgrandparents, actually after my
father died.
So, having the awareness, thatgrief, and because we're very
(17:37):
because we're talking about itrelating to death, because it's
a subject that we're not verygood at talking about or
accepting, then we sort of justwant to close the lid on it and
not deal with it and think thatwe're okay.
And I think nowadays more andmore people are, you know so
much, more aware of, like ourmental health, for example, and
(18:00):
getting more aware that ourphysical health is often
attached to our mental health.
And so you might sort of feellike you're fine in your mind
but your body is telling youthat something needs attention.
If we don't have the awareness,then we're just going to keep
(18:42):
soldiering on in life and notfeeling 100% and not living
fully.
And I think and the otherdifficulty is, of course, when
we feel intense pain and wedon't want to feel that again.
So we sort of shut down downand that's a form of protection
because you know our hearts havebeen broken.
Essentially, you know whetherthat could be a relationship or
somebody dying.
We think I don't ever want tofeel that again and therefore
you're sort of not open to.
You know, receiving love inyour life, which is essentially
(19:04):
the most important parts of ofbeing here so that's a really
good point.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Actually, when you're grieving you, you're not
feeling love, are?
you, yeah, disconnected fromdisconnected from love and at
our essence or at our core,that's what we are.
So it's almost as if it's justbeing pulled away from you, not
feeling that love.
So, in your experience, whatdid you do?
(19:31):
What were your practical toolsthat you used to to get back to
that state of life?
Because if you ever meet tara,tara's like this beautiful,
glowing soul and she's just gotthis wonderful thing or energy
that is kind of a littleindescribable.
When I had dinner with Tara anda few friends at a birthday
(19:52):
party a year or two ago, Iremember we all were around the
dinner table.
I don't know if you rememberthis, tara, but uh, we were all
told to say how do you, in oneword, describe someone that you
see across the table?
So do you?
remember this and I said, okay,when I, when I look at you know,
because I've never met Tarabefore and and I only knew
(20:15):
another person at the table, amutual friend and I described
when I looked at our I was likeI would say the towers very
peaceful.
That's what I said.
I said Tara's very peacefulthat's my interpretation of when
I met you, because you had thisvery calm, gentle, glowing
persona and then you sort of youwent.
(20:38):
Thank you, that that means alot and that just goes to show
the amount of work that Tara'sdone and that she's very
authentic in her work number oneand and what she's doing,
because to go from where youwere to have those very
difficult experiences in yourformative early years, to where
you are and living in thisbeautiful energy that you do and
(21:01):
helping the people you do, justas a massive testimony that
this is possible.
You're a testimony that you canhave like some really
outrageously difficultexperiences and yet you can
still return to love, you canstill return to peace, you can
still return to calm.
It's possible and you can stillbe glowing and beautiful and
(21:21):
bright and cheerful and fun,despite whatever life throws at
you.
And anyone who's listening isdefinitely going through
something.
And and I love the way you area testimony about your work and
and I think that that energyreally like sort of speaks, this
(21:42):
sort of volume of calmthroughout your work, that these
, that your, your processes,that your ideas are actually
possible, although you mighthave to find your own way
through creativity or yoga ormovement or exercise or all the
things that you tend to mention.
(22:02):
I just wanted to go back to onething.
In your book you sort of talkabout transformational potential
of grief, but what does thatmean?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Well, everything that happens to us in our lives, you
know, we can see, say, theobstacles, and a lot of us, you
know, and myself included, wouldbe like why is this happening
to me?
Would be like, why is thishappening to me?
(22:33):
I mean, when I was younger Iused to think, well, maybe, like
, maybe if we went to churchmore or I was more of a good
person, like perhaps bad thingswould stop happening to me.
And in some, some way, you know, I would think is it my fault
that these things are happening?
Or you know, why is thishappening to me?
And I think the spiritualpsychology you know, which is
(22:54):
becoming much more like fromtaken from Buddhist traditions
or things that we're morecommonly coming up, you know,
noticing more now, maybe inpopular culture, that actually
the obstacles are reallyopportunities for us and the
difficult things that happen inour lives are not there to
(23:15):
punish us, to tell us that we'rea bad person.
They are happening, you know,for us rather than against us.
And then what can we learn fromevery obstacle or difficulty?
And if we have, when I startedlearning this approach, it was
(23:37):
really transformational for mebecause I stopped being in this
sort of victim mentality of whyme and you become more like well
, why not me?
And what am I learning fromthis and how can I grow in my
wisdom?
Or how can I then use what'shappened to me to help other
people, and that was a veryempowering position to come from
(24:03):
in life, as opposed to you knowwhat?
Why me?
Why, why aren't these?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
playing the victim basically yeah and it's.
It's so easy to play the victimwhen you're unconscious because
you're just not sure that youhave any power whatsoever.
You're like I'm just reactingto life, um, and I love that
approach.
You know, like I don't knowwhat it's called in uh chinese,
is it Wu Wei?
You know, danger andopportunity and crisis are the
(24:33):
same symbol, or crisis andopportunity are the same symbol
in Chinese, and it's just liketransmuting all of that energy
from victim to creator.
And I noticed that when myfather died a few years back
victim to creator and I noticedthat when my father died a few
(24:54):
years back, I was like, well,I'm really having to go through
some, some energy here to haveto organize things that I've
never been in a position to,like moving country, selling
assets, having to figureeverything out, caring for my
mother um, you know just all ofthese things right, all of these
new things, and like I'm havingto deal with emotions as well
and be in charge, and there's noone to to tell me what I have
(25:18):
to do.
I've got to figure it out, youknow.
So wherever someone who'slistening in, who may be going
through something or other,despite the challenge that
you're going through, what tarais really saying is is that that
challenge is a setup forsomething beautiful in another
season that only you will findout as this season begins to
(25:39):
pass.
I always call it.
There's contrast in the setup.
You know there's.
There's a setup in disguisethat you won't see just yet.
You can't see the biggerpicture.
But when you zoom out of yourlife in maybe a year or two, it
will all make a little bit moresense and you'll be in an even
better position as a result ofthis challenge or this adversity
(26:00):
.
But it doesn't make sense whenyou're right up in it in the
quagmire yeah, and we want lifeto stay the same.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So there's this, you know it makes me laugh.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Why do we all want that?
We're just like, oh, just letit be, let it be the same, so I
don't have to to worry.
I don't want my emotions tohave to change, but they're
going to change, right?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
and I think it's a process of you know you're
holding on because you don'twant the change, but it's a
process of holding on andletting go, holding on and
letting go all the time.
And if you've had a big lifechange, that somebody close to
you has died or you're goingthrough a divorce, you are going
(26:44):
to be a new version of yourselfwithout that person in your
life anymore.
You know you're forced, in asense, to evolve and grow like
you're talking about.
You didn't have your dad there,who was the person that would
lead the family or make certaindecisions or explain things to
(27:05):
you.
So you have to shift into youknow, even though you are an
adult, like you're now the grownup and in that position of
looking after other members ofthe family, and so you are a new
version of you and it doesn'tmatter, I don't think, whatever
age somebody is who loses aparent.
(27:27):
You know I have people cominginto my groups who might be 70
years old and they've just losttheir mother and they're in deep
pain if they had an extremelyclose lives and we're all
children essentially, um, so itreally makes no difference, like
if you've lost, whatever ageyou are, because it's the
(27:50):
intensity of the relationshipwhich, will you know, define the
intensity of the grief so wouldyou say that this is a really,
that's a really good point here.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So the deeper the grief, the more joy you had with
that person or love yeah yeah.
So I remember reading this andI thought, ah, so the the deeper
sadness you feel, the greaterjoy it brought you.
So there's that beautiful yinyang, that balance.
(28:22):
You can't experiencing losswithout immense gains.
If you're experiencing any formof loss, don't worry, there'll
be massive gain coming massiveso that's why I love this little
philosophy of just appreciateevery time you get to spend with
people you care about, justabsolutely give them like lots
(28:43):
of hugs, tell them how much youlove them and appreciate them,
because that is the bit that'snow, that's the only bit you'll
ever control, which is now.
So you know, like when I'm withyou, I'm like Tara's amazing,
so excited to talk to you, learnfrom you, share with you, play,
you know, and that's the samewith everybody in your life.
(29:03):
You know, just relish thatmoment, because when it's gone,
it's gone yes, exactly, and Ithink that's what can be the
biggest teacher yeah for us thatwe really realize how short
life can be and how precious itcan be.
And you know there's noguarantee of tomorrow and that
(29:26):
and we do spend a lot of timeworrying about very
insignificant things I still do,even though you know I've been
doing this for a long period oftime and I help a lot of clients
, and very successful people atthat.
It still pops up, you know.
(29:47):
But I don't let it pop up forlong enough, but it's just like
it will still say hello, do youremember me?
I'm your friend called worry.
Okay, I'm gonna.
I'll say a quick hello, I'llinvite you in and then you can
leave when you're good and ready, but I'm just gonna chill here.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's funny how that happens yeah, it is, but I think
death can be such a teacher interms of getting getting things
into perspective.
Yeah, and you know, you hear ofpeople dying at such a young
age and it is, it'sheartbreaking.
(30:22):
And I had a group last nightwith I mean, there's six people
in the group but two of themhave got, you know, younger
children and they had amazingfathers, they were amazing
husbands.
So I get to hear this likedevastating, as you were saying.
It's like deep love and joy andthen this deep sadness as well.
(30:46):
Sadness as well, and and youthink, wow, it's such a
privilege to hear about theseincredible people who have sadly
gone too soon and have beenpassed away.
But it's amazing to hear aboutincredible people and really
beautiful relationships andfamilies and you know, not
(31:08):
everybody has those, thoserelationships and and so there's
something yeah, it's, it'sdeeply heartbreaking but at the
same time, it's like incredibleto listen to, you know yeah, but
, like you say, it's likeputting it into perspective,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
it's like you're feeling this way because that
person brought you great joy,you know, but now, because
they're physically not here,that joy is gone.
Well, can you not at leastremember how good it feels when
you were with them?
That's the shift, right, thatcan take a little time to really
focus on.
I just wanted to sort of justtouch upon, like, some of the
(31:50):
things that you're doing withthe conscious grief guidance.
You know what sort of storiesof people you know have you
helped where grief has led tolike massive positive
transformation?
You talked briefly about itwith, like people being amazing,
that that like the husbands orthe great they were great
husbands or whatever.
But what sort of what storieshave you got from your clients
(32:11):
or people that you've helpedwhere you know where your
conscious grief has led to likea massive positive
transformation?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
well, I, because of the spiritual side of of what I
do, the the awareness thatpeople may never have thought
about or related to before, isthat we are spiritual souls
having a human experience, and alot of people never think about
(32:44):
what happens when you die,which amazes me because, you
know, I was thinking about thatfrom the age of nine quite
obsessively.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Not everybody does that, butlike Tara does, I thought about
it for quite a while, but youknow everyone's different right,
always obsessed with death, butyou know that's part of what I
went through it for quite awhile.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
But you know everyone's different right,
always obsessed with death, butyou know that's part of what I
went through.
And so you know somebody dies,maybe your spouse, and obviously
you do think well, where arethey?
And I don't want to ever imposemy beliefs on anyone and I'm
always very respectful of that.
But we do have a week where wetalk about beliefs, as there is
(33:24):
the beliefs chapter in the book,and people may decide to
consult a medium and will becompletely, of course, if it's a
, if it's a reputable personwho's doing the reading blown
(33:47):
away by the fact that there isthe opportunity still to be
connected with our loved oneswho've crossed over to the other
side, and that can beabsolutely life-changing because
it shifts your whole beliefsystem, you know, and your
awareness of your existence hereand where we're going next.
So I think for some people thenthey really go, you know, on a
(34:09):
on this spiritual seeking pathwhich they would never have have
gone on before.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They had lost somebody close to them so
sometimes grief can lead to anawakening in spirituality.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, that's interesting.
I'd like to share a story, if Imay.
Um, when my father died,probably about three weeks after
um, I just sort of like, gonethrough the finances, I was
(34:38):
checking things out.
We've kind of got the files ina row.
You know, I've managed to toget to like, right now the real
work begins.
Had the funeral done this,you're like right now the real
work begins, now the next stage.
I was like I've got to do this,I've got to do it.
It's like, wow, I'm climbingEverest here for my family and
I'm gonna do it.
(34:58):
You know, and I, but I had thislittle sense of peace.
I'd been making sure I wasexercising every day, like
cardio for my heart, because Ijust knew that doing cardio
would be very healing for myheart.
And then I remember like I wasvery particular, making sure I
was eating very well, doing lotsof cardio meditation.
So I was already I've alreadyat this stage been spiritually
(35:21):
awake.
Awake, but I wasn't ready forwhat happened next, which was
what I'm about to share, whichwas I was lying down on my bed
and I was very, very relaxed.
I'd done a little meditationand now it's time to to drift
off into sleep.
I was very comfortable, like,and I just remember this feeling
because this comfort and whathappened was the bit that really
(35:43):
made me go wow, this is thisreal?
And it's like this, for me,felt very real.
I lay down, closed my eyes andthen suddenly I felt my dad like
lying next to me, just verycomfortably, very gently.
I saw him in my mind's eye asif I'm talking to you.
I was lying down like this verycomfortably, in a blissful
(36:06):
state of relaxation betweensleep and I don't know, you know
an alertness perhaps.
And he said do you mind if Ijust lie here a while?
I just want to be here with youfor a bit.
I was like, yeah, papa, papa,but just don't snore.
Because he was a massivesnoring, like shake the house
with thunder when he snores.
We're like, oh no, he'ssleeping.
(36:27):
And then I laughed and laughedI guess I won't, I promise, son,
I won't.
And I laughed and laughed andlaughed.
And I woke up and I swear I sawhim just like, like lying down
just gently, just as if he wasjust saying I, I'm okay, all is
well.
And we were laughing, I waslaughing, he was laughing.
And then I woke up and I was inexactly the same position,
(36:48):
except for there was no physicaldad there, and I was like, oh,
wow.
And so what I realized was thatevery time that I'd gotten into
this state of like realrelaxation, that I was more in
tune with another part of myawareness, my other part of
(37:09):
being able to connect withpeople that were really close to
me physically, and it wouldalways happen in a kind of dream
state and that just gave methis like all is well.
Okay, he's not physical, buthe's chipping about.
So to some people that mightseem very odd, but until you can
(37:31):
get into that state of realrelaxation, which is done
through some of the exercisesthat you mention in the book, um
and for me it was definitelydoing lots of exercises
nutrition, meditation that hasbeen fantastic for me, but for
other people it might be doinglots more creativity or
gardening or any type of therapy, talking to people, um, but
(37:55):
yeah, what do you hope readerswill take away from?
Like your book, tarot?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
you know what's the main thing you would like them
to take away when, when theyread your book conscious grief
and well, I include, you know, abit of my own story, um, but I
also have interviewed a lot ofpeople, um on this subject, so I
include a lot of other people'sstories as well, and so I hope
(38:23):
that through all the differentstories, people will feel that
they can relate, that they don'tfeel alone in what they're
experiencing.
You know, you sometimes feellike you're going crazy.
(38:44):
So I think some form of likevalidation and knowing that
you're not going crazy, thatyou're not alone, and that you
might feel inspired throughreading some of the modalities
of healing you know thetherapies, or maybe getting a
reading with a medium that theymight feel inspired to, to seek
out some extra support inanother way as well and try
(39:07):
something that they haven'ttried before.
But I mean, I start the bookwith the chapter on self-care,
of which we're just talkingabout, um, and how you took care
of yourself after your fatherwas dying.
And sometimes I say to peopleif you've never had any sort of
form of self-care practice, thenthis is really the time in your
(39:30):
life to start developing thatand really delving into like who
am I?
Because it's also like who am Inow, after this person has left
, but like who are you truly,really deeply, and how?
What is your relationship likewith yourself?
(39:51):
Because, again, some peoplehave never really thought about
that before.
And so really learning to loveand support yourself, because
you can't really take care ofyourself or do self-care, I
don't think, if you don't have avery good relationship with
(40:11):
yourself because you don't careabout yourself, and so you know,
I think that took me a longtime to develop that.
And just before I was walkingthis morning, I was walking my
dog and I was thinking I used togo to New York quite regularly
(40:33):
to see friends and I'm going toNew York later this week
actually and I haven't been formany years.
Actually, and I haven't beenfor many years.
But I was thinking about it waslike 11 years ago when I was
there and I just felt so awful,you know, in myself, um, I
(40:56):
really didn't like who I was.
You know I was in, I was justin a lot of really didn't like
who I was.
You know I was in, I was justin a lot of pain, but not
acknowledging that, and so Ithought, you know, it's really
an amazing feeling to not be inthat place anymore.
Yeah, and, as you were sayingit is, it is really possible to
(41:17):
shift and transform and it's notnecessarily something that
happens overnight.
Um, you know it varies foreverybody, but it is possible.
So if you're feeling like in areally low place in your life,
you know, unfortunately it is upto you to change that.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
You can't just it's a funny thing.
I was just having thisconversation with a friend
yesterday.
I was like no one's coming tosave you, no one's coming.
I waited, waited, waiting.
No one's coming.
Once you take, once you takefull responsibility, that it's
all up to you, that then yousuddenly get this rush of energy
that comes through and Isometimes call that a rush of
(42:00):
spiritual energy that comesthrough saying I'm actually
going to show up for me.
And then suddenly ideas, books,therapies, people just start to
come into experience.
Because, because you'reactually saying I'm going to
take responsibility for this.
But when you are waiting forsome external source to come and
sort you out, it's just, it'sjust not going to happen.
You're going to to be in limbo.
(42:20):
So you're excited to go to NewYork with a new level of energy.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, a completely different person essentially,
Even though I'm not and if you'dmet me 11 years ago, I'm still
a very similar person to be with.
But internally I was reallystruggling and I didn't
necessarily share that witheverybody.
(42:47):
But, yeah, I was really reallynot happy and I really didn't
like myself and it took.
You know it does take time, itdoes take a real level of
dedication and you know the sortof thing like I've done it
myself a million times.
Like you think, if I pay forthe gym membership or I buy
these supplements that I nevertake, then you're going to feel
better.
But it's like you can't justmake investments in things and
(43:12):
not do anything.
You have to be the one to putthe work in day after day in
order to feel better.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I just wanted to say what I noticed about you and
your particular experiences.
Your experiences seem quitelong.
You, you know a long experienceof the challenge, but you help
people.
You help people able tonavigate their way through that,
those trials and those emotions, through a much quicker time
(43:39):
frame than perhaps you wentthrough.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That's the blessing where you've managed to
transform your pain intopossibility for other people and
potential yeah, and I mean Ialways say to people look, just
because we've done an 11 weekprogram together, this is not
gonna.
This doesn't mean to sayeverything's fine after 11 weeks
.
You know, I've given you tools,um and a community which a lot
(44:06):
of people stay in connectionwith the people they've been in
the groups with um long afterthe group completes.
So yeah, it's a, it's, it's aneducation you like, but you then
have to continue that on yourown.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
But at least they've got some tools now, whereas
perhaps they may not have hadthe tools Exactly, and that's
priceless, because you know youcould be walking around in limbo
and not having any idea what todo, how to process, in fact,
how to even move forwards,because existing feels a very
slow.
Red light place to me.
You're like you're constantlywaiting in traffic, as an
(44:44):
analogy or a metaphor, you know,to being able to enjoy feeling,
feeling like yourself again,reconnecting, recalibrating back
to that good feeling personthat you are at your core.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Just somehow separated.
Tara, it's been absolutelyamazing speaking to you.
Thanks for sharing everythingabout you, know your story and
being candid, and I love hearingthe stories of how you're
helping people and helping yourclients.
I'm going to have all of Tara'slinks available underneath this
show, but I would just like tosay this you really read Tara's
(45:21):
book book, but if you get achance to actually being there,
it is a fantastic book, um, butif you are ever in london or
wherever she's doing herworkshops, try and get to her
workshops, because being inatara's presence is really quite
empowering and whilst we mightnot all be able to be there in
person, I think you do someonline stuff as well, don't you?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I do.
I do a lot of a lot of thingsonline, yeah, and I teach a
grief, yoga and breath work aswell, which are really great
tools very, very uhtransformative.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
So, if you can, try and get to see tara in person,
but if not, try and use some ofher other workshops or online
stuff or read the book, becauseit's it's a fantastic book and
it will really help you go fromwhere you are to where you want
to be yes, and it's a small book.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
It's a very straightforward um to read and
it's available as as well onaudible too.
So if you don't have time toread a book but you like to
listen to them in the car, thenyou can.
You can get it in that formatas well that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Just in closing, is there anything else you'd like
to say to somebody in theaudience who's listening that
might help them from where theyare, you know, on their journey?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I think we spend a lot of time judging ourselves
and maybe you feel like youshould be in a different place
by now.
You should be over it, you know.
You know, maybe I mean, Ididn't start grieving until
decades after my parents havedied and I would just say that
(46:58):
one of the most important thingsis to really be gentle and
compassionate with yourself, asopposed to, you know,
criticizing yourself and givingyourself a hard time.
Um it, we we really can be ourown worst enemy, and sometimes
(47:18):
we can internally talk toourselves in such a berating and
harsh way, like in a, in a waythat you would never speak to
anybody else.
Um.
So if you're somebody with thatkind of voice in your head,
then really begin to to makesome moves to change that and
(47:38):
and really develop a kind andnurturing voice within, because
that will really transform yourlife so true, tara, so true.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Thank you so much thank you so much.
I really appreciate it thisweek's super soul model, the
wonderful tara nash.
Thank you very much.
If you've enjoyed this episodeor any of the others and you've
been inspired, please considersupporting the show.
Your contributions make a hugedifference so we can keep giving
you the best content.
(48:09):
Thanks for tuning in.
As always, you make this show.
In this episode I'm speaking with author Tara Nash.
Tara is a spiritualpsychologist and conscious grief
guide, and she helps peopletransform heavy emotions like
grief and helps people findtheir center again.
Enjoy this enlightening episode.
Hello and welcome to the JamesGarnson podcast Super Soul Model
(00:30):
series, where I help peopletune and tap in to their natural
state of well-being.
This week I have returningguest Tara Nash.
Tara is a spiritualpsychologist and conscious grief
guide and she's just writtenher first book, conscious Grief
Transforming Pain into Evolutionand Growth.
I'm so excited to have Taraback on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, thank you so much for having me back, James.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Since our last conversation, which was probably
about a year ago, you've beenguiding people through a
conscious grief program.
You've been doing lots ofprograms, perhaps a little
retreat.
You've been doing onlinesummits, really helping people
heal through this consciousgrief.
Give us a little recap aboutwhat conscious grief is and
(01:15):
perhaps maybe you could justtell us a little bit about your
story again so we can refreshthe audience about how we can
potentially help them in thatword grief, because it seems a.
It seems quite a heavy word,but when I speak with you I get
a lot of joy from you, tara, soit just shows what you've done,
uh, with your own process.
So fill us in a little bitabout what conscious grief is
(01:40):
and your own story, if that'sokay.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, I guess my experience waskind of unconscious grief for
many, many years, because myfather died in 1990 of a heart
attack and my mother died in2002 of breast cancer, and I
(02:04):
didn't really know anythingabout what grief was or how it
impacted you.
I don't think my mother eitherreally delved into it.
You know, when my father diedwe just kind of we were brave,
we were strong, we didn't reallystop and process it.
(02:24):
In fact, my mother gotremarried very quickly, um,
which was not a good marriage,so then she went through a
divorce and I could always, Iwould always think about how,
you know, stress impacts us andI often wondered my mother
getting breast cancer?
She was a very sort of healthyperson in terms of diet and
(02:47):
exercise and and yet she gotcancer.
And I I just mimicked my motherreally when she died, that I
would just not kind of let this,these deaths and sadness, slow
me down or stop me from gettingon with life, um, but I I was
(03:09):
always internally struggling andquite um sort of having a quite
a low level of of depressionreally and, but, you know,
determined to not, you know, letit affect me what is a low
level of depression?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
what?
What does that mean?
Is that just like you just feeldepressed in the background, or
what?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I would say it was, um, just a kind of apathy, like
I don't care if I'm here or nothere, like what is the point of
life?
Know?
I just wasn't feeling any realkind of joy and excitement for
being alive and I was alwaysreally questioning, like what's
(03:54):
the point of it all?
From a young, young age, right,and I started having, I tried
with therapy in my very early20s I felt very ashamed of going
to see a therapist.
It was something I wasextremely secretive about.
I didn't find her to besomebody particularly helpful.
(04:17):
I always struggled inrelationships.
So that's kind of what wouldget me to seek help, not
thinking, oh, I need to processthe death of my parents, um, and
then it was.
And then my late 20s, I didfind a good therapist, but again
, we were taught talking a lotabout you know what happened in
(04:40):
my childhood and realizing thatthat was a big trauma and I
hadn't allowed myself to eventhink of that as a trauma.
Leave losing my father verysuddenly of a heart attack when
I was nine.
So that was good.
You know, I started to havetherapy.
I worked in fashion beforehandand then I started to do, you
(05:03):
know, self-development workshopsin this therapy and I became
quite, uh sort of enchanted bythis world and I started
thinking I'm not really happy infashion anymore, I'd like to
move my career into somethingthat's more about helping people
.
And I found this master'sdegree in Los Angeles called
(05:27):
spiritual psychology, and I'dbeen I was always quite enamored
with the US.
I had friends who are moving toNew York and I was kind of
going to visit them.
So I found this, this program,and I moved to LA and I started
studying spiritual psychology,and it was during that two years
(05:47):
that I I started to process mygrief, because in the second
year we had to choose a projectof our choice and I decided to
base my project on death andgrieving.
Um, I mean, I won't go into thefull story, but that's what,
how the book begins, um and uh.
(06:10):
So it was you know, however,many years later, over a decade
later, that I actually picked upbooks about grief and I thought
, my goodness, why, why has thetherapist or the coaches that
I've been working with?
They haven't ever reallyexplained to me what grief is
(06:30):
and how it can impact us, and alot of my experience and my
behaviors started to make sensebecause, of course, it was
really directly related togrieving but I hadn't been aware
of it and I hadn't beenconscious of it and I didn't
know when I started that programthat you know, sort of talking
(06:52):
about death and grief would bewhere I would land.
But I was so kind of, I was sosort of lit up that there was
all this whole community and youknow, all of this knowledge
around a subject which I hadbeen dealing with for most of my
life and and yet I hadn't umresearched it, I hadn't looked
(07:16):
into it and I was quitesurprised how a lot of
therapists or coaches they won'thave a lot of training on grief
it while they're doing that um,while they're studying.
So, unless you've had a verydirect experience of a big grief
, I think it's almost somethingthat you have to have an
experience of um.
(07:37):
But obviously grief there's.
It can be all kinds ofdifferent grief.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
It doesn't have to just be um, it's not just the
death of a person yeah, it couldbe like a relationship breakup
or it could be, you know, a lossof something you know.
Yeah, yeah, it's usually a lossof something because you feel
disconnected, which is whysomething that was secure is has
(08:01):
been taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Until you can return back to yourself where you feel
that inner security again, whichis basically what your book's
all about.
I'm fascinated by your book.
So when you're talking aboutyour book, you know you talk
about, like this, why it's soimportant to be mindful of grief
.
Tell us a little bit about that, because that's quite
(08:27):
fascinating, because sometimeswe're not even aware of what's
happening.
And it said you were justsaying I wasn't even aware that
I was grieving for years or mostof my life.
So if someone's listening inthe audience, you know like
you'd be, like yeah, I feel alittle apathy or I feel this, or
I feel that I don't feel likemyself, because when you feel
yourself, you feel fulfilled,you feel filled up, filled up
(08:48):
with within.
But if you're, if you're notfeeling great, you're just sort
of existing or getting by.
That's not really living.
And in your book you know, you,what is the mindfulness and
intentionality behind, likeunderstanding, like this
conscious grief, and why is thatimportant?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, for my experience, I went into a state
of, you know, which most peopledo shock, when my father died
and I that I decided that it wassafer to not feel because the
feelings, you know, was sooverwhelming, and also I was
(09:30):
watching a lot of adultsbreaking down and crying, so I
was like, oh my gosh, I don'twant all of these emotions, I
don't want to put that onanybody else, and so I basically
went into numbness for a longtime, you know, and that's that
(09:50):
is normal at the beginning.
But it's not normal to staythere for years and years and
years.
And if you, you know, if you'rein that place of numbness, then
of course you know you're notgoing to be able to feel like
you say, you're not going to beable to feel like you say,
you're not going to be able tolive fully because you're
turning the volume down on thereally painful feelings.
(10:12):
But you can't just choose toturn the volume down on certain
feelings, you know.
You turn them down on on theexcitement and the joy and the
wonder and awe of life too, andthe joy and the wonder and awe
of life too, and so when I thinknobody grieves in the same way
and you may have to notconsciously grieve because your
(10:36):
life might not have the spaceand the time to be able to sit
with your feelings.
If you have a busy job and youngchildren and you don't, you
know, you just haven't got thespace in your life to really
like have those days of feelingand crying and processing or
(10:56):
being angry.
So you never know when it'sgoing to come for you.
And I do believe that ourconsciousness will present what
needs healing when you're readyto heal it.
And I don't want people to sortof think, oh well, my father
died, I'm going to read thisbook and I'm going to follow the
(11:19):
instructions and then you know,these messy, uncomfortable
feelings will subside and I willnever have to revisit them.
Unfortunately, you know, griefisn't like that and we don't
know when we're going to havethe feelings come up.
But if you're conscious andaware of things that you're
(11:40):
feeling, I mean that's reallywhat it is.
Things that you're feeling, Imean that's really what it is,
and a lot of us, I think it'sdifferent in the next generation
, but we were never taught to bein touch with our feelings and,
as most of us, as soon as wefeel anything uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
You know we reach for a distraction yeah change that
usually some sort of addictionor whatever.
Can I ask a question why is itthat most women are more in
touch with the feelings than men?
From your experience as being aconscious grief guide, and I've
(12:17):
got to ask that question do youtend to have more women come to
your type of workshops andthings that you do than, yeah,
you do yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I do, um, I mean, I think women are just generally
more able to talk about theirfeelings, um, because that's
been more socially acceptableand many men from a young age,
you know, of a certaingeneration, were told don't cry,
you know, be strong and bemacho.
(12:50):
Yeah, and those.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's the messaging from an old programming, you
know, which I think is changinga lot and when, in my schooling
and when I grew up, you know,everything was exactly like that
.
So like you gotta show zeroemotion, you gotta make sure
you're strong and hard, um, butat the same time it doesn't stop
you feeling or trying not tofeel those feelings, because
(13:15):
they do come up, whether youlike them or not, even if you're
a guy.
Um, but I'm fascinated.
I always, I I've always thoughtthat maybe women are more in
touch with their emotionsbecause of their body and just
the natural DNA of being afemale in gender.
And men's natural inclinationis to want to provide and have
to protect, and that protectionmeans I'm not going to let any
(13:37):
vulnerability seep in.
But actually then you can'tactually begin to nurture
yourself and nurture anybodyelse unless you let that in
anyway.
So it's a bit of a catch-22, um.
So in my own healing journeyI've, you know, looked at myself
and gone okay, it's okay to be,uh, a man and it's okay to also
be open and share my feelingsas well.
(14:00):
It took a long time.
I remember even my sistersaying like you never tell me
how you really feel.
You know, you always say, yeah,it's fine, it's fine, but I
know you're not fine and I'mlike yeah, so it took me a
little while until actually afriend of mine so any guys
listening a friend of mine saidhe goes buddy, you know it's
okay for you to tell me how youfeel, I'm not going to judge you
(14:24):
.
You to tell me how you feel,I'm not going to judge you.
And I was like wow, that wasthe first time that had actually
been allowed in my life when Iwas growing up.
I was like I've been allowed toactually say, oh, I don't even
know what this feeling is, but Iknow it's not my centered
feeling, I know it's not joyright now, or I know it's not,
you know, know an optimisticfeeling.
And then that's the process, orat least in my experience, of a
(14:50):
male being able to go.
I can be open to a feeling andjust accept it for what it is
rather than try and push it away.
So if there's someone listeningwho's struggling right now, in
your book you sort of talk aboutthe emotional and the spiritual
aspects of conscious grief howcan someone find that peace
(15:16):
again?
You know, between those twoaspects, the emotional and the
spiritual, to find that harmonyagain, because you know your
journey is so unique.
You were in that space ofextreme non-acceptance to then,
so total acceptance, and nowyou're helping so many people,
tara, you know what?
How would someone in theaudience who's struggling right
(15:38):
now find that balance?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
well, I think you you mentioned the word intention
before.
I think you have to have a, youknow, curiosity and an
intention to find what is goingto work for you, and maybe
you're gonna have to try variousmodalities of healing and for
(16:04):
some people, talking aboutwhat's going on for them is
helpful.
Maybe for other people it'screative pursuits like art, or
it could be physical forms ofexercise or journaling, um, so,
you know, really it's findingwhat works for you and I would
(16:25):
encourage people to try, youknow, multiple forms of
processing, because what theproblem that we have?
If we, if we don't process itand allow it to the energy of
the grief to move, you know itbecomes stuck inside of us.
And that's when, you know, weeither start having physical
(16:49):
ramifications like aches andpains, or maybe you get IBS, or
perhaps you know you get seriousback pain, yeah, and and the
breath, the lungs, is where wehold the grief, so you might
have short and shortness ofbreath.
I mean, broken heart syndromeis a real thing and this happens
(17:11):
a lot.
When you know people who'vebeen together for for many years
, one of them dies and then theother one may, you know, get
something to do with the heartthat that then also makes them
very unwell or even they die.
That happened with my umgrandparents, actually after my
father died.
So, having the awareness, thatgrief, and because we're very
(17:37):
because we're talking about itrelating to death, because it's
a subject that we're not verygood at talking about or
accepting, then we sort of justwant to close the lid on it and
not deal with it and think thatwe're okay.
And I think nowadays more andmore people are, you know so
much, more aware of, like ourmental health, for example, and
(18:00):
getting more aware that ourphysical health is often
attached to our mental health.
And so you might sort of feellike you're fine in your mind
but your body is telling youthat something needs attention.
If we don't have the awareness,then we're just going to keep
(18:42):
soldiering on in life and notfeeling 100% and not living
fully.
And I think and the otherdifficulty is, of course, when
we feel intense pain and wedon't want to feel that again.
So we sort of shut down downand that's a form of protection
because you know our hearts havebeen broken.
Essentially, you know whetherthat could be a relationship or
somebody dying.
We think I don't ever want tofeel that again and therefore
you're sort of not open to.
You know, receiving love inyour life, which is essentially
(19:04):
the most important parts of ofbeing here so that's a really
good point.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Actually, when you're grieving you, you're not
feeling love, are?
you, yeah, disconnected fromdisconnected from love and at
our essence or at our core,that's what we are.
So it's almost as if it's justbeing pulled away from you, not
feeling that love.
So, in your experience, whatdid you do?
(19:31):
What were your practical toolsthat you used to to get back to
that state of life?
Because if you ever meet tara,tara's like this beautiful,
glowing soul and she's just gotthis wonderful thing or energy
that is kind of a littleindescribable.
When I had dinner with Tara anda few friends at a birthday
(19:52):
party a year or two ago, Iremember we all were around the
dinner table.
I don't know if you rememberthis, tara, but uh, we were all
told to say how do you, in oneword, describe someone that you
see across the table?
So do you?
remember this and I said, okay,when I, when I look at you know,
because I've never met Tarabefore and and I only knew
(20:15):
another person at the table, amutual friend and I described
when I looked at our I was likeI would say the towers very
peaceful.
That's what I said.
I said Tara's very peacefulthat's my interpretation of when
I met you, because you had thisvery calm, gentle, glowing
persona and then you sort of youwent.
(20:38):
Thank you, that that means alot and that just goes to show
the amount of work that Tara'sdone and that she's very
authentic in her work number oneand and what she's doing,
because to go from where youwere to have those very
difficult experiences in yourformative early years, to where
you are and living in thisbeautiful energy that you do and
(21:01):
helping the people you do, justas a massive testimony that
this is possible.
You're a testimony that you canhave like some really
outrageously difficultexperiences and yet you can
still return to love, you canstill return to peace, you can
still return to calm.
It's possible and you can stillbe glowing and beautiful and
(21:21):
bright and cheerful and fun,despite whatever life throws at
you.
And anyone who's listening isdefinitely going through
something.
And and I love the way you area testimony about your work and
and I think that that energyreally like sort of speaks, this
(21:42):
sort of volume of calmthroughout your work, that these
, that your, your processes,that your ideas are actually
possible, although you mighthave to find your own way
through creativity or yoga ormovement or exercise or all the
things that you tend to mention.
(22:02):
I just wanted to go back to onething.
In your book you sort of talkabout transformational potential
of grief, but what does thatmean?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Well, everything that happens to us in our lives, you
know, we can see, say, theobstacles, and a lot of us, you
know, and myself included, wouldbe like why is this happening
to me?
Would be like, why is thishappening to me?
(22:33):
I mean, when I was younger Iused to think, well, maybe, like
, maybe if we went to churchmore or I was more of a good
person, like perhaps bad thingswould stop happening to me.
And in some, some way, you know, I would think is it my fault
that these things are happening?
Or you know, why is thishappening to me?
And I think the spiritualpsychology you know, which is
(22:54):
becoming much more like fromtaken from Buddhist traditions
or things that we're morecommonly coming up, you know,
noticing more now, maybe inpopular culture, that actually
the obstacles are reallyopportunities for us and the
difficult things that happen inour lives are not there to
(23:15):
punish us, to tell us that we'rea bad person.
They are happening, you know,for us rather than against us.
And then what can we learn fromevery obstacle or difficulty?
And if we have, when I startedlearning this approach, it was
(23:37):
really transformational for mebecause I stopped being in this
sort of victim mentality of whyme and you become more like well
, why not me?
And what am I learning fromthis and how can I grow in my
wisdom?
Or how can I then use what'shappened to me to help other
people, and that was a veryempowering position to come from
(24:03):
in life, as opposed to you knowwhat?
Why me?
Why, why aren't these?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
playing the victim basically yeah and it's.
It's so easy to play the victimwhen you're unconscious because
you're just not sure that youhave any power whatsoever.
You're like I'm just reactingto life, um, and I love that
approach.
You know, like I don't knowwhat it's called in uh chinese,
is it Wu Wei?
You know, danger andopportunity and crisis are the
(24:33):
same symbol, or crisis andopportunity are the same symbol
in Chinese, and it's just liketransmuting all of that energy
from victim to creator.
And I noticed that when myfather died a few years back
victim to creator and I noticedthat when my father died a few
(24:54):
years back, I was like, well,I'm really having to go through
some, some energy here to haveto organize things that I've
never been in a position to,like moving country, selling
assets, having to figureeverything out, caring for my
mother um, you know just all ofthese things right, all of these
new things, and like I'm havingto deal with emotions as well
and be in charge, and there's noone to to tell me what I have
(25:18):
to do.
I've got to figure it out, youknow.
So wherever someone who'slistening in, who may be going
through something or other,despite the challenge that
you're going through, what tarais really saying is is that that
challenge is a setup forsomething beautiful in another
season that only you will findout as this season begins to
(25:39):
pass.
I always call it.
There's contrast in the setup.
You know there's.
There's a setup in disguisethat you won't see just yet.
You can't see the biggerpicture.
But when you zoom out of yourlife in maybe a year or two, it
will all make a little bit moresense and you'll be in an even
better position as a result ofthis challenge or this adversity
(26:00):
.
But it doesn't make sense whenyou're right up in it in the
quagmire yeah, and we want lifeto stay the same.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So there's this, you know it makes me laugh.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Why do we all want that?
We're just like, oh, just letit be, let it be the same, so I
don't have to to worry.
I don't want my emotions tohave to change, but they're
going to change, right?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
and I think it's a process of you know you're
holding on because you don'twant the change, but it's a
process of holding on andletting go, holding on and
letting go all the time.
And if you've had a big lifechange, that somebody close to
you has died or you're goingthrough a divorce, you are going
(26:44):
to be a new version of yourselfwithout that person in your
life anymore.
You know you're forced, in asense, to evolve and grow like
you're talking about.
You didn't have your dad there,who was the person that would
lead the family or make certaindecisions or explain things to
(27:05):
you.
So you have to shift into youknow, even though you are an
adult, like you're now the grownup and in that position of
looking after other members ofthe family, and so you are a new
version of you and it doesn'tmatter, I don't think, whatever
age somebody is who loses aparent.
(27:27):
You know I have people cominginto my groups who might be 70
years old and they've just losttheir mother and they're in deep
pain if they had an extremelyclose lives and we're all
children essentially, um, so itreally makes no difference, like
if you've lost, whatever ageyou are, because it's the
(27:50):
intensity of the relationshipwhich, will you know, define the
intensity of the grief so wouldyou say that this is a really,
that's a really good point here.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So the deeper the grief, the more joy you had with
that person or love yeah yeah.
So I remember reading this andI thought, ah, so the the deeper
sadness you feel, the greaterjoy it brought you.
So there's that beautiful yinyang, that balance.
(28:22):
You can't experiencing losswithout immense gains.
If you're experiencing any formof loss, don't worry, there'll
be massive gain coming massiveso that's why I love this little
philosophy of just appreciateevery time you get to spend with
people you care about, justabsolutely give them like lots
(28:43):
of hugs, tell them how much youlove them and appreciate them,
because that is the bit that'snow, that's the only bit you'll
ever control, which is now.
So you know, like when I'm withyou, I'm like Tara's amazing,
so excited to talk to you, learnfrom you, share with you, play,
you know, and that's the samewith everybody in your life.
(29:03):
You know, just relish thatmoment, because when it's gone,
it's gone yes, exactly, and Ithink that's what can be the
biggest teacher yeah for us thatwe really realize how short
life can be and how precious itcan be.
And you know there's noguarantee of tomorrow and that
(29:26):
and we do spend a lot of timeworrying about very
insignificant things I still do,even though you know I've been
doing this for a long period oftime and I help a lot of clients
, and very successful people atthat.
It still pops up, you know.
(29:47):
But I don't let it pop up forlong enough, but it's just like
it will still say hello, do youremember me?
I'm your friend called worry.
Okay, I'm gonna.
I'll say a quick hello, I'llinvite you in and then you can
leave when you're good and ready, but I'm just gonna chill here.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's funny how that happens yeah, it is, but I think
death can be such a teacher interms of getting getting things
into perspective.
Yeah, and you know, you hear ofpeople dying at such a young
age and it is, it'sheartbreaking.
(30:22):
And I had a group last nightwith I mean, there's six people
in the group but two of themhave got, you know, younger
children and they had amazingfathers, they were amazing
husbands.
So I get to hear this likedevastating, as you were saying.
It's like deep love and joy andthen this deep sadness as well.
(30:46):
Sadness as well, and and youthink, wow, it's such a
privilege to hear about theseincredible people who have sadly
gone too soon and have beenpassed away.
But it's amazing to hear aboutincredible people and really
beautiful relationships andfamilies and you know, not
(31:08):
everybody has those, thoserelationships and and so there's
something yeah, it's, it'sdeeply heartbreaking but at the
same time, it's like incredibleto listen to, you know yeah, but
, like you say, it's likeputting it into perspective,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
it's like you're feeling this way because that
person brought you great joy,you know, but now, because
they're physically not here,that joy is gone.
Well, can you not at leastremember how good it feels when
you were with them?
That's the shift, right, thatcan take a little time to really
focus on.
I just wanted to sort of justtouch upon, like, some of the
(31:50):
things that you're doing withthe conscious grief guidance.
You know what sort of storiesof people you know have you
helped where grief has led tolike massive positive
transformation?
You talked briefly about itwith, like people being amazing,
that that like the husbands orthe great they were great
husbands or whatever.
But what sort of what storieshave you got from your clients
(32:11):
or people that you've helpedwhere you know where your
conscious grief has led to likea massive positive
transformation?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
well, I, because of the spiritual side of of what I
do, the the awareness thatpeople may never have thought
about or related to before, isthat we are spiritual souls
having a human experience, and alot of people never think about
(32:44):
what happens when you die,which amazes me because, you
know, I was thinking about thatfrom the age of nine quite
obsessively.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Not everybody does that, butlike Tara does, I thought about
it for quite a while, but youknow everyone's different right,
always obsessed with death, butyou know that's part of what I
went through it for quite awhile.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
But you know everyone's different right,
always obsessed with death, butyou know that's part of what I
went through.
And so you know somebody dies,maybe your spouse, and obviously
you do think well, where arethey?
And I don't want to ever imposemy beliefs on anyone and I'm
always very respectful of that.
But we do have a week where wetalk about beliefs, as there is
(33:24):
the beliefs chapter in the book,and people may decide to
consult a medium and will becompletely, of course, if it's a
, if it's a reputable personwho's doing the reading blown
(33:47):
away by the fact that there isthe opportunity still to be
connected with our loved oneswho've crossed over to the other
side, and that can beabsolutely life-changing because
it shifts your whole beliefsystem, you know, and your
awareness of your existence hereand where we're going next.
So I think for some people thenthey really go, you know, on a
(34:09):
on this spiritual seeking pathwhich they would never have have
gone on before.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They had lost somebody close to them so
sometimes grief can lead to anawakening in spirituality.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, that's interesting.
I'd like to share a story, if Imay.
Um, when my father died,probably about three weeks after
um, I just sort of like, gonethrough the finances, I was
(34:38):
checking things out.
We've kind of got the files ina row.
You know, I've managed to toget to like, right now the real
work begins.
Had the funeral done this,you're like right now the real
work begins, now the next stage.
I was like I've got to do this,I've got to do it.
It's like, wow, I'm climbingEverest here for my family and
I'm gonna do it.
(34:58):
You know, and I, but I had thislittle sense of peace.
I'd been making sure I wasexercising every day, like
cardio for my heart, because Ijust knew that doing cardio
would be very healing for myheart.
And then I remember like I wasvery particular, making sure I
was eating very well, doing lotsof cardio meditation.
So I was already I've alreadyat this stage been spiritually
(35:21):
awake.
Awake, but I wasn't ready forwhat happened next, which was
what I'm about to share, whichwas I was lying down on my bed
and I was very, very relaxed.
I'd done a little meditationand now it's time to to drift
off into sleep.
I was very comfortable, like,and I just remember this feeling
because this comfort and whathappened was the bit that really
(35:43):
made me go wow, this is thisreal?
And it's like this, for me,felt very real.
I lay down, closed my eyes andthen suddenly I felt my dad like
lying next to me, just verycomfortably, very gently.
I saw him in my mind's eye asif I'm talking to you.
I was lying down like this verycomfortably, in a blissful
(36:06):
state of relaxation betweensleep and I don't know, you know
an alertness perhaps.
And he said do you mind if Ijust lie here a while?
I just want to be here with youfor a bit.
I was like, yeah, papa, papa,but just don't snore.
Because he was a massivesnoring, like shake the house
with thunder when he snores.
We're like, oh no, he'ssleeping.
(36:27):
And then I laughed and laughedI guess I won't, I promise, son,
I won't.
And I laughed and laughed andlaughed.
And I woke up and I swear I sawhim just like, like lying down
just gently, just as if he wasjust saying I, I'm okay, all is
well.
And we were laughing, I waslaughing, he was laughing.
And then I woke up and I was inexactly the same position,
(36:48):
except for there was no physicaldad there, and I was like, oh,
wow.
And so what I realized was thatevery time that I'd gotten into
this state of like realrelaxation, that I was more in
tune with another part of myawareness, my other part of
(37:09):
being able to connect withpeople that were really close to
me physically, and it wouldalways happen in a kind of dream
state and that just gave methis like all is well.
Okay, he's not physical, buthe's chipping about.
So to some people that mightseem very odd, but until you can
(37:31):
get into that state of realrelaxation, which is done
through some of the exercisesthat you mention in the book, um
and for me it was definitelydoing lots of exercises
nutrition, meditation that hasbeen fantastic for me, but for
other people it might be doinglots more creativity or
gardening or any type of therapy, talking to people, um, but
(37:55):
yeah, what do you hope readerswill take away from?
Like your book, tarot?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
you know what's the main thing you would like them
to take away when, when theyread your book conscious grief
and well, I include, you know, abit of my own story, um, but I
also have interviewed a lot ofpeople, um on this subject, so I
include a lot of other people'sstories as well, and so I hope
(38:23):
that through all the differentstories, people will feel that
they can relate, that they don'tfeel alone in what they're
experiencing.
You know, you sometimes feellike you're going crazy.
(38:44):
So I think some form of likevalidation and knowing that
you're not going crazy, thatyou're not alone, and that you
might feel inspired throughreading some of the modalities
of healing you know thetherapies, or maybe getting a
reading with a medium that theymight feel inspired to, to seek
out some extra support inanother way as well and try
(39:07):
something that they haven'ttried before.
But I mean, I start the bookwith the chapter on self-care,
of which we're just talkingabout, um, and how you took care
of yourself after your fatherwas dying.
And sometimes I say to peopleif you've never had any sort of
form of self-care practice, thenthis is really the time in your
(39:30):
life to start developing thatand really delving into like who
am I?
Because it's also like who am Inow, after this person has left
, but like who are you truly,really deeply, and how?
What is your relationship likewith yourself?
(39:51):
Because, again, some peoplehave never really thought about
that before.
And so really learning to loveand support yourself, because
you can't really take care ofyourself or do self-care, I
don't think, if you don't have avery good relationship with
(40:11):
yourself because you don't careabout yourself, and so you know,
I think that took me a longtime to develop that.
And just before I was walkingthis morning, I was walking my
dog and I was thinking I used togo to New York quite regularly
(40:33):
to see friends and I'm going toNew York later this week
actually and I haven't been formany years.
Actually, and I haven't beenfor many years.
But I was thinking about it waslike 11 years ago when I was
there and I just felt so awful,you know, in myself, um, I
(40:56):
really didn't like who I was.
You know I was in, I was justin a lot of really didn't like
who I was.
You know I was in, I was justin a lot of pain, but not
acknowledging that, and so Ithought, you know, it's really
an amazing feeling to not be inthat place anymore.
Yeah, and, as you were sayingit is, it is really possible to
(41:17):
shift and transform and it's notnecessarily something that
happens overnight.
Um, you know it varies foreverybody, but it is possible.
So if you're feeling like in areally low place in your life,
you know, unfortunately it is upto you to change that.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
You can't just it's a funny thing.
I was just having thisconversation with a friend
yesterday.
I was like no one's coming tosave you, no one's coming.
I waited, waited, waiting.
No one's coming.
Once you take, once you takefull responsibility, that it's
all up to you, that then yousuddenly get this rush of energy
that comes through and Isometimes call that a rush of
(42:00):
spiritual energy that comesthrough saying I'm actually
going to show up for me.
And then suddenly ideas, books,therapies, people just start to
come into experience.
Because, because you'reactually saying I'm going to
take responsibility for this.
But when you are waiting forsome external source to come and
sort you out, it's just, it'sjust not going to happen.
You're going to to be in limbo.
(42:20):
So you're excited to go to NewYork with a new level of energy.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, a completely different person essentially,
Even though I'm not and if you'dmet me 11 years ago, I'm still
a very similar person to be with.
But internally I was reallystruggling and I didn't
necessarily share that witheverybody.
(42:47):
But, yeah, I was really reallynot happy and I really didn't
like myself and it took.
You know it does take time, itdoes take a real level of
dedication and you know the sortof thing like I've done it
myself a million times.
Like you think, if I pay forthe gym membership or I buy
these supplements that I nevertake, then you're going to feel
better.
But it's like you can't justmake investments in things and
(43:12):
not do anything.
You have to be the one to putthe work in day after day in
order to feel better.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I just wanted to say what I noticed about you and
your particular experiences.
Your experiences seem quitelong.
You, you know a long experienceof the challenge, but you help
people.
You help people able tonavigate their way through that,
those trials and those emotions, through a much quicker time
(43:39):
frame than perhaps you wentthrough.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That's the blessing where you've managed to
transform your pain intopossibility for other people and
potential yeah, and I mean Ialways say to people look, just
because we've done an 11 weekprogram together, this is not
gonna.
This doesn't mean to sayeverything's fine after 11 weeks
.
You know, I've given you tools,um and a community which a lot
(44:06):
of people stay in connectionwith the people they've been in
the groups with um long afterthe group completes.
So yeah, it's a, it's, it's aneducation you like, but you then
have to continue that on yourown.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
But at least they've got some tools now, whereas
perhaps they may not have hadthe tools Exactly, and that's
priceless, because you know youcould be walking around in limbo
and not having any idea what todo, how to process, in fact,
how to even move forwards,because existing feels a very
slow.
Red light place to me.
You're like you're constantlywaiting in traffic, as an
(44:44):
analogy or a metaphor, you know,to being able to enjoy feeling,
feeling like yourself again,reconnecting, recalibrating back
to that good feeling personthat you are at your core.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Just somehow separated.
Tara, it's been absolutelyamazing speaking to you.
Thanks for sharing everythingabout you, know your story and
being candid, and I love hearingthe stories of how you're
helping people and helping yourclients.
I'm going to have all of Tara'slinks available underneath this
show, but I would just like tosay this you really read Tara's
(45:21):
book book, but if you get achance to actually being there,
it is a fantastic book, um, butif you are ever in london or
wherever she's doing herworkshops, try and get to her
workshops, because being inatara's presence is really quite
empowering and whilst we mightnot all be able to be there in
person, I think you do someonline stuff as well, don't you?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I do.
I do a lot of a lot of thingsonline, yeah, and I teach a
grief, yoga and breath work aswell, which are really great
tools very, very uhtransformative.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
So, if you can, try and get to see tara in person,
but if not, try and use some ofher other workshops or online
stuff or read the book, becauseit's it's a fantastic book and
it will really help you go fromwhere you are to where you want
to be yes, and it's a small book.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
It's a very straightforward um to read and
it's available as as well onaudible too.
So if you don't have time toread a book but you like to
listen to them in the car, thenyou can.
You can get it in that formatas well that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Just in closing, is there anything else you'd like
to say to somebody in theaudience who's listening that
might help them from where theyare, you know, on their journey?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I think we spend a lot of time judging ourselves
and maybe you feel like youshould be in a different place
by now.
You should be over it, you know.
You know, maybe I mean, Ididn't start grieving until
decades after my parents havedied and I would just say that
(46:58):
one of the most important thingsis to really be gentle and
compassionate with yourself, asopposed to, you know,
criticizing yourself and givingyourself a hard time.
Um it, we we really can be ourown worst enemy, and sometimes
(47:18):
we can internally talk toourselves in such a berating and
harsh way, like in a, in a waythat you would never speak to
anybody else.
Um.
So if you're somebody with thatkind of voice in your head,
then really begin to to makesome moves to change that and
(47:38):
and really develop a kind andnurturing voice within, because
that will really transform yourlife so true, tara, so true.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Thank you so much thank you so much.
I really appreciate it thisweek's super soul model, the
wonderful tara nash.
Thank you very much.
If you've enjoyed this episodeor any of the others and you've
been inspired, please considersupporting the show.
Your contributions make a hugedifference so we can keep giving
you the best content.
(48:09):
Thanks for tuning in.
As always, you make this show.
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