Building Better Future with Kat Timpson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
Hello all, my entrepreneurs and business leaders, and welcome to
the Michael Esposito Show, where I interview titans of industry
in order to inform, educate and inspire you to be great.
Hellow all, my entrepreneurs and business leaders, and welcome to
the Michael Esposito Show, where I interview titans of industry
in order to inform, educate and inspire you to be great.

(00:44):
My guest today is a seasoned communicator with over twenty
years of experience in media, public relations, corporate communications, community relations,
and public speaking. Her work her work on her own
experience as a buyer and seller many times over, as
well as a divorcing homeowner. She's been recruited to be

(01:08):
one of the head coaches for her broker's pilot coaching program,
now regional to New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania and
set to be rolled out nationally over the next few years.
She is also training with superstar speaking coach Jess Xtroum

(01:28):
to become a top female public speaker. Outside of work,
she serves her industry community as a founding member of
Women's Council of Realtors North Central, where she has served
on the local and state boards for four years, a

(01:50):
member and chair of the Communications Committee of the New
Jersey Association of Realtors, and active part of nc JR
Community Outreach and Young Professionals Network Advisory Board. She's born
and raised in Manhattan's Greenwich Village. Please welcome Kat Timson.

(02:15):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Kat, Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I
really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's a pleasure having you on. I also want to
mention to everyone that you are a sales associate realtor
at Caldwell Bankers and a key Cold War Cold War
Well banker, sorry, and a keynoteer, a public speaker. I
love it. I love when I have my people on,

(02:41):
my people on this show. It feels good. It feels good.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
It would be a good connection because we both love
love the communicating thing.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yes, shout out to Howie for introducing us. Howie is
a long time toast Master with myself. I met him
in Toast Master. Just a really great guy. He always
comes up with these really cool speeches about his travels
through the mountains. He's a big hiker and camper, and
he's got all these really cool presentations that he's done

(03:13):
for us of pictures of where he's traveled, and Grand
Canyon of course being one of the notable ones. So
so cool. And then he also what's really cool and
what we'll be talking a lot about is just his
storytelling abilities to be able to speak about camping and
hiking and doing all these cool outdoor things and then
relating it back to his business and his financial services

(03:34):
and life insurance business that he does, his practice that
he does, and he does it so seamlessly that you
don't even know that you're building a relationship with someone
who can help you with your finances. So it's so cool.
And then he introduced us to each other, knowing that
there'd be some sort of synergy and here we are
on the show.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah. I think some people are just sort of boring connectors.
How he's definitely won. I definitely love that aspect of
getting together with people well and just always thinking like
who can I put together with whom like, is it
somebody who they could benefit from, or is it somebody
they have a lot of commonality with. Whatever, it is

(04:12):
just putting tw people together. And I have friends whose
business is called super connector media, because it's so valuable
in your business to actually connect people. That's the whole goal, right,
so we can do business together. So I was super
excited to meet you, Michael, and I was really happy
to be able to be on your podcast, which I
think is such a challenging thing to run for those

(04:35):
of you who are not in the business or haven't
done one. It's a lot of work, So I give
you kudos.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's it's been a passion of mine for many years,
and so I really understand when people say it's a
passion project in terms of whatever they're doing in their lives,
because I don't get paid for this. Some would say
to me, it's part of my it's part of my
marketing or whatever. But I also don't generate an enormous

(05:03):
amount of leads that would also pay for this. And
I say that because that's what truly makes it a
passion of mine, is that while while I do I've
been doing it for three years. I don't care what
comes out of it. If marketing comes out of it, fantastic,
If leads come out of it, fantastic. If I end
up making a killing on it in terms of sponsorships

(05:25):
and advertisement and all the rest, awesome. Like, trust me,
I'm not saying no to any of those things. All
of those things I want and I'm putting out in
the universe as you know, come and get me when
you're ready. But even if none of that ever happens,
it's a passion. It's like I'll still be doing this
because I really just enjoy it. But to your point,
there is a lot of work that goes on behind

(05:47):
the scenes in order to get you know, the MIC's
going and the camera going as you know, we were
just doing that. It's sitting on some books here. It's
like I'm in a professional studio at iHeart, and it's
still sitting on some books here. It's like, it doesn't
matter where you end up, you're always going to be
troubleshooting and trying to figure something out. And that's the
thing is like you have to be passionate about it,

(06:08):
otherwise you're not going to troubleshoot you're just going to go, oh, well,
forget it.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
And I think, Michael, you're such a natural communicator, and
I think wanting to communicate with people verbally and on
camera makes so much sense. I mean, I think I
actually grew up in the world of journalism, and the
weird thing about journalism is it's all scripted. So I
really have to work hard when I communicate publicly to

(06:34):
not sound scripted, because it's sort of the natural. You know, Hi,
I'm so and so, and I'm out here doing so
and so, and it's like, well, that didn't come out right,
you know, whatever the activity is and you're just giving
the story and it's so different. It's such a different rhythm,
it's such a different way of putting things. And that's

(06:55):
why I know that you really appreciate the way how
he talks about stories because story telling is a gift.
And I think that having the opportunity to tell one story,
whether it's on a podcast, whether it's a Toast Masters,
which I love. Ps. Anybody who doesn't do Toast Masters
and wants to be a speaker of any sort, get

(07:16):
on it. That is a great training ground. But yeah,
having the opportunity to talk to people. It's I think
it's like an art that if people are really good
at it, you don't even know it's happening. It's just natural.
And I give you goodness for doing that.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, thank you. Yeah, And another little other plug for
toast Masters in Trouble'll be talking about it a lot,
not just a training ground, but also a great place
to practice. I use it for myself. I've been a
toast Master now for seven years, probably eight years, and Howie,
I think is like twelve years. Howie and I have
different I think goals with toast Masters, and I don't

(07:58):
think that I know that hows there. I think from
a learning perspective and from a growth perspective of being
able to share and present and do what he does,
and he does it so great. And for me, I
joined toast Masters because I knew I wanted to be
a keynote or a public speaker, a paid public speaker.
And now I'm living in that dream, which is awesome
and amazing. But I always had that goal. And so

(08:21):
when we look at toast Masters, it's a great place
for salespeople, for business people to learn the skills of
public speaking and to put them a little bit too practice,
And what we see as toast Masters is that those
kind of people they learn a little bit, they get
better at it, and then they leave, which is fine
because they've gotten too what they've gotten what they need
out of the program and out of the club. First,

(08:44):
people like you and me who are constantly going on
stages and doing workshops and speaking in places, it's a
great place to practice and rehearse some of the things
that we're working on. So, for instance, I'm doing a
keynote very soon, a sixty minute keynote, and in all honesty,
it's my first sixty minute keynot ever. And so what

(09:04):
I've had, yeah, so cool. What I've been doing at
toast Masters is we only have ten minutes speaking portions
when we sign up as a speaker. So what I've
been doing is I've been signing up for that and
doing ten minute blocks. And what's cool is how he
always picks up as my evaluator because he knows what
I'm trying to do, and so he gives me the
evaluation based off of what I'm trying my goals of

(09:27):
the talk. So it's it's been a great place also
to practice as a seasoned speaker, and so I wanted
to put that plug in there for it.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, no, I will add to the plug, which is
that I think a lot of people come to toast
Masters thinking they don't know how to speak, But there
are a lot of people who should be in toast
Masters because they already are good speakers, and getting the
feedback from people in real time is very valuable. And
even people who are not natural speakers, they are often

(09:55):
good editors or they good good feedback because they're really
constant trading on giving you sound response. The idea as
I am, that you can practice on an opportunity where
people are literally listening to everything you're saying in a
very finite way really helps because I think a lot

(10:19):
of us have filler words, filler phrases that gets taken out.
You learn to speak slower, you learn to think on
your feet. So even my plug is, even if you
are a good speaker, absolutely go to toast Masters because
you're really refining what it is you do. And then

(10:39):
you have people like Michael and like Howie who really
understand that you're there to work on some really important
things to you and then get the feedback that you
need so you can succeed. It's a testing ground as
much as a learning place.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, and something else that you said that I want
to stay on for a second here is also so
Toastmaster's motto is something about where leaders are made or
leaders for tomorrow or future. It has something to do
with leaders of tomorrow. Maybe that's what it is. Which
is which is interesting because as you were talking about
the evaluation or evaluating someone, which is part of the

(11:18):
toast Master thing is evaluating someone's speech. Is that I
love what you said about maybe not being a seasoned speaker,
but giving an evaluation because you're listening to the finer points.
That's where the leader is made. And here's what I
mean by that. In that moment of being an evaluator,
you're you're judging yourself and in a good way. I'm

(11:41):
using judgment of yourself in a good way. Here you're
judging yourself. You're saying, I'm not a professional speaker. I'm
not at their level yet, let's say, right, But you're
still giving feedback that's helping them get better and do better.
And here's the leadership I think for everyone to hear

(12:02):
is that a leader doesn't need to be the best
at everything to be able to give feedback to help
others improve because and that's like essentially what leadership is.
It's helping your team and the people that you're inspiring
become better at what they do. And so if you're
there to become a better public speaker, and part of
what you're doing is evaluating somebody who might be at

(12:23):
a different level than you, your evaluation matters because you
might be seeing things that they don't see or hear
and giving that to them so that they can excel.
And I think that that right there is part of
that leadership track that we're talking about at toast Masters
and also right here on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
One thousand percent I agree with that. I think that
leadership is really about reaching down and pulling people up
so that they can be their best. The training that
I had a lot of it was in radio, but
a lot of it started in CNN in Atlanta and
we were just peons. But the way you would raise
up into the company was to have somebody just ahead

(13:00):
of you reach their hand down and pull you up.
And that's actually kind of a traditional thing for media
is that people definitely bring people along, and that to
me is a real leader because it's selfless, right, you're
looking to grow the other person as well as to
do better things for yourself. So I think absolutely right
about toast Masters, and I ended up going from officer

(13:23):
in the club to officer in the region. I personally, actually,
I don't know if you ever get to do these,
but the contests, which are yeah, they're like crazy getting
out on the ledge kind of thing, but I got
to actually am see a couple and really get to
see people going through it and not be the one

(13:44):
going up on stage for that reason, so it was
much more free and comfortable. But it really is an
interesting process to watch people grow and take on the
want of helping others. And I think that's one of
the things we need to be thinking about when we're
doing businesses. It's not just about us, right, It's not
just about how we're doing. Even if you don't have

(14:06):
a team with you per se, like in real estate,
there are a lot of teams, but even if you
don't have a team, you still should be looking to
elevate other people because they're in your industry and you
want them to do better so that you can do better.
And I think that that is something that's so relevant
and toast Masters is incredibly helpful with that. So there

(14:27):
are just so many aspects. So I plug it big,
even though I haven't done it for a while, just
time constraint wise. But it's a little bit of an
unknown and a bit of a secret. But if you
get a chance, rock on to one, rock on to
a meeting. There are plenty of public ones and it's
very cool.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, I mean, you could always always check out Mind
the Dutchess toast Masters, and we also meet via zoom.
So that's our final plug for toast Masters, not that
we you know, I mean, it's not. The thing is
is we've gotten so much from it, right, and so
we want others to hear about it. And I like
that you said like little secret, because you're right. Every
once in a while I'll hear a keynoto or a
public speaker or a figure say something and they'll say, oh, yeah,

(15:09):
and I learned that toast Masters. I'm like, oh yes,
and it is rare, but it makes that's what makes
it so cool, like that jam like that diamond in
the rough. Speaking of diamonds in the rough and the
Diamond District, You're you're a real New Yorker and I
love and I'm saying this intentionally because so many, so
many people are like, oh, I'm a New Yorker or

(15:31):
I'm from New York and and I'm definitely one of
those who says I'm a New Yorker. I'm from New York, right,
And it's because I'm part of the Five Boroughs. I'm
from queens And you know.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
The Bronx, the Bronx from Queens Borough.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
That's right from the borough. Right, there's my non toast me.
As soon as I go to as soon as I
go back to the city, I lose all my toast
master learning. But the Boroughs are very different than Manhattan.
And you grew up in Greenwich Village and so I
am so curious on what growing up in Manhattan.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Was like, super different than I imagine it's happening now.
But it was really really interesting. I grew up with
a single mom and a lot of my friends had that,
and we all went to a school called the Little Schoolhouse,
which was really a hippie school. I mean it was
sort of the advance thinking about how kids learn, which

(16:29):
is through play and through their particular kind of intelligence. Right,
So we had these amazing teachers who just brought out
our creativity, and as a whole, we were very independent kids,
even though we were really tied into this amazing school community.
We had way more freedom than, for example, our children have,

(16:50):
especially in the suburbs. We were walking to school by
eight we were, and that was you know, down sixth Avenue.
We were taking buses and subways and by the time
we were we were done with school before the public
school kids, and we would be at the movies whatever opened,
we were there first. So we had a lot of freedom.
And what was really great about it. And I think

(17:12):
the big takeaway Michael is by living somewhere like New
York and growing up, you start to appreciate how wonderful
people's differences are because you were constantly, constantly coming into
some sort of relationship. And I don't mean that in
some romantic way. I mean you are constantly coming into

(17:35):
some sort of discussion store situation with people who are
in theory different than you. But there's like a humanitarianism
about New York and the way we grew up. It
was sort of like, if we're all not the mugger,
then we're all together. We're all on the same side,
like we're all strap hanging and using the subway and

(17:58):
just trying to get to workers school. And I don't
know if it's that way right now. I think that
it's definitely there are less striations of maybe socioeconomic opportunities
in the city right now. But for us, it was
really a mix of people. It was everyone from doctors,
kids to single moms who were in the art field.

(18:23):
We had some cool people like Bob Dylan's kid was
in my class, and you know, there was always some
wonderful musician. We grew up on Free to Be You
and Me because one of the moms had written a
lot of lyrics. I mean, it was very very cool.
But we didn't really know that in a good way,
right We didn't know that we were supposed to treat

(18:44):
anyone differently just because they had a different skin color
or a different anything background, anything, It didn't matter. We
had sort of this weird bliss about it where it
took until we were much older to understand that it
was unique for us to not be judging people by

(19:04):
who they are and what their ethnicity is, or what
their background is, what their skin color is, what their culture, religion,
is that really took a while to understand until I
went to a really high end prep school. And I
say that because it was really much more homogeneous, and
it was it was definitely for a lot of rich kids,

(19:25):
and the goal was to get you to college, and
that was such a different situation than being amongst kids
who are just being themselves, and so that was like
it was, it was really cool. And the great thing
about it is when I say I'm for New York
and people, I don't have to be like, do you
know where that is? Have you ever heard of it?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah? The only thing you have to say is New
York City, and everybody knows exactly where it is. So
it's pretty neat. And you know, I wanted to just
for everybody. You know, you said straphangers, and it's so
funny because it's like, unless you're from the city, you
really don't know what that is of like being on
a subway or being on a bus and and hanging
on to those So that that's one thing and the
other the other thing I want to bring up is

(20:09):
you mentioned the socioeconomic IM not exactly sure of the
decade that you were, you know, growing up there in
uh and you know, you don't have to share, you
don't have to share it. There there there wasn't so
much of a distinction between the wealthy and the poor,
and now it's like, if you're from the city, you're
either one or the other. It's really hard to be

(20:30):
a middle class person living in the city these days.
And so I think that that changed the way that
you were able to enjoy it. I mean, I know
when I was growing up, so for me, it would
have been like the nineties, you know, going into the
city or into Manhattan or whatever. It was a very
different feeling than I think it is today. It's it's
today it feels very touristy or it feels either touristy

(20:54):
or I don't belong. It's like it's like one of
the other. Almost is kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I agree. I mean, we we were living large in
South Orange and we sort of went, Wow, we can
live in a very expensive home, but there was no
way we could afford something in New York City. How
weird is that, you know, to have come from New
York and we moved from Brooklyn when we had a
seventeen month old. But I agree, I am a child
of the seventies into the eighties, so it was a

(21:20):
completely different time, but you know it was I think
again we took things for granted. I mean I remember
a birthday where I was walking down fifty seventh Street
and Dustin Hoffman just passed by, like no big deal,
which for many of this audience they maybe like whatever,
but at the time it was like Dustin Hoffman And
another birthday, I was walking down seventh Avenue and gosh,

(21:43):
we were talking about I think meeting people randomly who
are celebrities, which again for people younger probably is not
a big deal, but like it was a big deal then,
and we were walking down the street talking about it,
and we heard this voice say, yeah, it's really cool
when you see people who are famous. And it was

(22:05):
Hall and Oates, it was John it was yeah, it
was Oats. No Hall, right, the Tall the Tall line one.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
I don't know them. I know that I worked at
a place in Pauling and they lived right down the
road from there. They have they actually have a bar
right there in Pauling.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I think it was Hall, and he was pretty on himself.
He was like, yeah, it's so cool when you see
famous people. The thing is he was the least cool
to us because one of the things that was really
interesting is I mean, our school was so such a
mix and we loved R and B so like kind
of whiter popper culture was not our jam at all.

(22:42):
So we literally screamed and ran away because we thought
it was the funniest, least cool thing ever. And I
feel kind of bad because if he ever heard that
we were, I feel like we dinged his ego by
running away. But anyway, it was, you know, it was
that kind of thing you just sort of never knew
what is coming, and in a good way, you're able

(23:03):
to adapt. And I think that that is one of
the reasons that I love, for example, what you and
I do when you're public speaking, even though you know
what you're going to say, you don't know what the
situation is going to be. Something's gonna happen, the camera's
going to fall, the MIC's not going to work. Anything
can happen, and I think it's really valuable. Again, if

(23:25):
you haven't grown up like this, find somewhere like Dosemasters,
it's really valuable to be able to adapt. And I
think that adaptability is one of the things that I'm
most proud of from being a New Yorker because my
mom's goal was to say, I want you to be
able to walk into Joe's bar, and I want you
to be able to walk into the White House. And

(23:45):
I was like, that is very cool. You're right. I
want to hang out with everybody and given whatever the
situation is. And it's one of the things I love
about public speaking. It's one of the things I love
about real estate. You meet the gamut of people and
how cool is that?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, And it's so funny the adaptability piece. So for
our audio listeners, I'm tooling around here with my camera
as you're saying that, my camera started flickering and I'm like,
all right, I got to switch over to a different
camera here. So and that's it. We just adapt and
kind of have to move forward. I think that that's
such a great lesson for anybody who's looking to enhance
their speaking career, become a public speaker or a keynoter,

(24:22):
is that you have to be able to think on
the fly and adapt to the current situation. I remember
I was attending a conference and the keynoter was on
stage and she was speaking, and she kept sniffling and
rubbing her nose, sniffling and rubbing her nose, and eventually,
like I want to say, about like five or ten
minutes into the keynote, she just stopped talking and just said,

(24:43):
excuse me, can you grab me a tissue or a
napkin or something. I really need to blow my nose.
And it was and you know, she got one. She said,
excuse me, everyone, she blew her nose. She took care
of it, and you know, she continued on for the
next forty minutes in her keynot And because I wanted to,
because I knew what I wanted to be at the time,

(25:04):
I always hung around after keynotes at conferences to try
to speak with the speaker, and so she gave me
about an hour of her time. After she spoke, we
sat together at a table, and you know, I was
asking her about the business. This is going back twenty eighteen.
I want to say. I was asking her about the business.
I was asking her about you know, do's and don'ts,
and places to go and learn, and you know, different

(25:26):
things like the NSSA National Speaker Association and toast Masters
and all the rest. Right, and then she brought up
she goes and you know, you gotta be adaptable. Like
just like you said, She's like, my allergies are driving
me crazy today. And I knew they were gonna cut,
they were going to act up. I was hoping they
wouldn't act up. I was hoping I can get through
my whole talk without them acting up, and sure enough

(25:47):
they did. She goes, I thought I brought tissues with
me up on stage. I didn't, and sure enough I
needed one, and she goes, you know what, I had
to just stop what I was doing and ask for it,
because we're human beings up there. And I think that
when we think about adaptability, that's the part that we
forget is we're human beings. So whether it's speaking on stage,

(26:08):
running an organization, you know, being a leader somewhere in
your community, we're all human beings and we're all just
trying to figure it out as we go along. And
so if we could live in the moment and realize
nothing's perfect and you know, I need help, how can
we move on from this? You know it'll come.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
With witness your camera and my lighting. We're just never
going to it's never gonna be perfect. But I think
that's so absolutely true when I was growing up, and
I clearly am a little bit older than you, but
when I was growing up, all the advertisements on TV
were like bye this ling and that was sort of
the joke about the orbit gum. Do you remember she
kind of.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Went right and the teeth light up and everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, everything was very very scripted, And I think that
that that's such a refreshing thing about our culture now
that there are a lot of things. Maybe maybe we
had to swing to the other side to do reality TV,
but I think somewhere in the middle is people being
genuine and we're not asking people to have bad grammar.

(27:12):
We're not asking people to have filler words or filler sentences. However,
humanity on a stage is real and it's not a play,
so they don't need to know exactly what to say,
and if they're reacting to the situation on the audience,
I mean, to me, that's endearing and also it makes
me feel really more connected to that person. I know

(27:34):
that My coach always says to us, like, the audience
is with you. You have to remember that they don't
want you to fail. They're sitting there. They don't want
to be bored, they don't want you to fail. They
want you to be there to entertain them or interest
them or inspire them. And so when we show people
they're human, I think we just become even more in

(27:57):
relationship with them, if you will.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah, And you're one hundred spot on there, right,
is like I always train on that too, for for
everybody that you know. Is in one of my public
speaking sessions, I asked, I asked the audience, I'll ask
them right outright. I'll just say, you know, do you
want me to fail up here? And they kind they
kind of look at me funny. I'm like, do you
want me to just, you know, completely forget what I
have to say and completely flub my words and totally

(28:21):
be embarrassed up here? And they start understanding what I'm
asking and they all start no, of course not. And
I'm like, exactly, And when you come up here, because
usually in my public speaking courses, which I'm sure you've
attended your own, and they do this for you, is
I want you to come up here, And so when
you come up here, realize that everybody is doing the
same for you. They don't want you to fail. I

(28:43):
don't want to miss out on the the opportunity to
speak a little bit about your journalist journalism career, I
know that that kind of is what catapulted you into
real estate, and then, of course is what you're drawing
on in terms of your your speaking career today. And
so I'm very interested in what that was like. And
you know what, you know, you mentioned a little bit
about it before, about getting pulled up. You know, where

(29:08):
did it start, Where did the journalism career start, and
what did it do for you?

Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's so interesting. Thank you Michael for asking about that.
So I actually came from a family of journalists, believe
it or not. My grandfather was the editor of what
was a very big paper years ago called the Newark News.
He ended up getting transferred to Washington, DC as a
bureau chief and then went into government and worked with
Kennedy and Johnson. But in the meanwhile, my uncle was

(29:33):
working for the big station in Washington. So I always
knew people who were in media, and I think it
was sort of a natural move. But I was in
Boston sort of going what am I going to do?
I graduated way back late eighties, I graduated from Smith.
I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I

(29:54):
had a really good friend from elementary school who was
in Atlanta, and he said, come on down, like I'll
put your resume on the table at the desk of somebody.
Wonderful he did. We had a great interview went down anyway,
living in Atlanta, that's a whole different thing working overnights.
But what it really showed me was how much goes
into information dissemination. It's a lot of work with a

(30:18):
lot of people constantly, and somehow in my youth it
didn't make a good connection that CNN twenty four hour
news meant people had to be there all day long,
including US peons who were there all night long. But
the great thing was a lot of us went on.
I actually ended up going back to my home state
and going into radio, which is a medium that any

(30:40):
speaker could really appreciate. You never have to get dialed up,
you never have to wear makeup, and you get to
really meet a lot of people. I was doing like
rock and roll news, which was super fun, and then
local politics. I think the thing, Michael, that's really interesting
about the way you carry things through. There's always been
a commonality of what I like. I love to write,

(31:03):
I love to meet people. I love to connect with people,
and that's been the same, whether it's media. And then
I moved into public relations, and then I was in
graduate school, and then I was a stay at home mom,
but I was still doing all these things that had
similar ideas, leading groups or coaching or writing newsletters or

(31:25):
any of that. It all sort of made sense. And
I think if you are looking at what you're going
to do, it's really valuable to think about what the
things are that you love, because they will carry you
through no matter what it is you're doing. And it's
the same, you know, as I go into real estate,
I love video, I love media, And while that's marketing

(31:46):
as opposed to prospecting, it's got this amazing place in
that industry as well.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Well. I mean, i'd argue that it is part of prospecting.
I think that we are living in a time of
really great opportunity to be able to use our talents.
Maybe I'm speaking to the we of the people like
you and me who are willing to put our faces
out there and our voices out there, and so when

(32:16):
you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Terrifying, terrifying right on some level, it's like being judged,
But yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Oh oh yeah, I don't. I don't think of it
as terrifying, but and I'm surprised that you even think
of it as terrifying. I think you come across really
really well spoken and confident, but you know, I guess
we all have little fears inside. But where I'm going
with this is that we have an opportunity with social
media and the way that people are taking in information

(32:45):
now that by being able to use your broadcast voice
and being able to use your your image and your
and your face and video, you can use it to prospect.
And the other thing is is that like you said before,
which is we you know, growing up in the seventies
and eighties or even early nineties, where commercials were very commercial,

(33:08):
like you knew it was an advertisement. You knew it
was a commercial. And going into today where it's really
information and education is what sells. It really brings out
the people in us of who you and I are,
or whoever's listening right now in terms of being an
entrepreneur in that you can use video and audio to
educate people. And at the same time it is it's

(33:29):
a form of marketing, but it is prospecting, Like I mean,
I said it before, this podcast doesn't really generate leads,
but if I wanted it to, it probably could if
I decided to position it that way. I just don't
position it that way.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think
the thing very lucky about social media is that it
allows people to know us and so for willing to
be and it's really hard. I don't think I'm great
at it, but I think there are a lot of
people who are. They're willing to be honest and vulnerable,
and the vulnerable side of them, I think is again
what really appeals. They're human, what they go through depending

(34:05):
on what their field is. Love, I personally love that,
Like those are the people I love, and it does help.
I think you're right in terms of cultivating your tribe, right,
Like you attract the people who are attracted to you
in terms of what you think or how you feel,
or how you speak or how you present yourself, and
what appeals to somebody might not appeal to somebody else.

(34:25):
But it's sort of like it's not so much an audition,
it's more like a I feel like social media is
sort of like being a pen pal, Like you don't
know them but you know them. And I think there
are a lot of realtors, for example, that get really
lost in what it is they need to do and
they forget to show who they are. They're very busy

(34:45):
showing you know, just sold and just listed, and yeah,
that's great and it demonstrates that they're capable of their
actual business, but who are they? Like there are millions
of real estate agents the country, and so to differentiate yourself,
that's really the chore or the task rather that somebody

(35:12):
can use social media for to really get people to understand.
And it's all different, right, Like I've I'm gonna talk
to people about my experience as a mom or as
a homeowner or whatever, and somebody may be a young
couple and that may be a totally different appeal, or
they're looking at me like sort of an anti you know,

(35:34):
who can help them through things. So I think it's
just a really wonderful way to get some sort of
perspective on who people are.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, it really is. And I'm interested in the judgment
part for you. I feel it too, and so I'm
just interested on what your your thoughts are on it,
because like you said, it's your fault. Cultivating your own
tribe and the people who I would think support you,
so therefore it gives you the opportunity to be more real.

(36:03):
But as we're I think maybe this is really where
my question lies for you, is for those listening right
now who are looking to get into let's say, a
real estate field or an insurance field, or you know,
one of those service type of industries where getting to
know the person is more important than the product because
there's so many products out there and there's so many

(36:24):
people selling the product that it's really about you and
what are your unique qualities and who are you as
a person. What do you think is the best way
to maybe overcome some of that feeling of judgment in
order to put yourself out there and be vulnerable in
social media?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Well, I think probably in this probably rings true for
a lot of people that not everybody is really genuine
on social media. And that was one of the things
that just made me say, yes, I don't care what
you had for breakfast, And I really am kind of
jealous that you're in Italy for the third week in
a row, you know what I mean, and you're like,
you're just showing me the best of your world. And
that's great, and that's wonderful, but like that does do anything?

(37:00):
I don't really know you now, I think that people
need to be thinking in terms of how they are
creating a relationship with somebody and using social media. And
I think the thing that's hardest about that is because like,
you get the opportunity when somebody is on social media
to critique every single part of them, the way we
do with celebrities. She's to this, or he's to that,

(37:23):
or she's got that makeup or he you know, we
were very good at doing that. But I think that
the challenge for people in service fields is to use
it differently, not just to say like look at me,
I'm so great, but actually to turn it around because
the best service providers are really never doing it for themselves.
I mean, yeah, we're trying to make money and we

(37:45):
have a career, but when you're really doing your job
to help somebody else, I think that's what shines through
and that's what's important, and that's what's valuable. And sure,
they're going to be people who make a lot more
money than somebody else who's just doing it relationship, my relationship.
I get that, but is that sort of the thing

(38:06):
you want to leave the earth having done. I mean,
for me, it's more like the opportunity to grow relationships
on a regular basis. And I think that if people
get the opportunity to not judge harshly but to assess you,
then that's pretty cool. That's actually pretty cool and cuts

(38:26):
down the time you need to waste with somebody who's
not into what you're into or not you know, jiving
with your vibe.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
So yeah, yeah, you know, I just realized it's so funny.
As we're talking about this, I'm looking at my other
camera that I've turned off, and it's like, I need
to look at this camera over here. I realized it
like while I was talking. So I'm sorry I was.
I wasn't making eye contact with the lens.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Well it's so hard to do. Believe me, you're doing
a great job.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
But you know, it's what's made me think of it.
As as we're talking about social media and talking to
camera and all that stuff, so I'm like, wait a second,
I haven't be talking into the camera, which is really
talking to you to our audiences, and you know, and
there you go. But I want to go back to
your radio days so you were on the radio, you
were doing you were having fun, you were kind of
like living out whatever it was that you enjoyed doing there.

(39:16):
And then you made a shift into real estate. And
I'm interested in that transition period for you. What was
going on for you? What were some of the questions
or maybe some of the life events that were happening
that made you decide to shift.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Sure, so first of all, radio super fun. You make
absolutely no money. I think I'd literally made nine thousand
dollars a year. I was under the poverty line. I
was having a lot of fun because I got to
go to almost every concert, Like I literally went to
Lolapluzo when it was the first year or the second year.
It was amazing, right, So there were berks. That was fun.

(39:50):
And then I moved back to New York City when
I met my ex husband. But I had a big
transition and that was actually a sort of an interesting
awakening for me, being a kid who grew up in
an apartment. We bought a house, and then I realized
that I loved the process of buying a house, making
it better, bringing all its wonderful characteristics out. So I

(40:14):
ended up actually doing that as a homeowner several times over.
We had five houses out of twenty two years. In
the course of the time since nineteen ninety eight when
we moved to Maplewood and we stayed in Maplewood and
then South Ron, South Arn, we really moved around and
we kind of enhanced these houses and then brought them
to the market. That clearly is a good foundation for

(40:35):
being a real estate agent. And I had a very
good friend who was in real estate locally, who was
doing really well and was like, you know, both sides,
come help me, And I was like, no frickin' way,
I don't like realtors.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
It took her like six months and then I was like,
all right, fine, I'll do it for you and took
the test, started the work and went, oh yeah, I
like that. This is good. I'm in it. So it
took a little while. It took a little while for
me to sort of get my groove about appreciating the field,
because like every field, there are people who aren't maybe

(41:13):
as ethical, or they're not doing their job in the
way that you would hope they would do it. That
happens all the time everywhere. So maybe we're just more
of a microcosm because what we do is not regular, right.
People used to even people used to buy a house
every five to seven years, and now it's like every
thirteen years. So you're in the middle of something, you

(41:36):
do it more often than the people who you're helping.
They haven't done it for a while. It's like education
city as well as helping them through something, as well
as being their financial advisor, as well as being their
moral support as well. You know, it's got a lot
of complexity to it, so I think that it was
almost a natural fit. And the writing, the performance, all

(41:58):
those things go hand in hand and as long as
you're being genuine about it. But it's it's like everything's
new on a daily basis. The board gets erased every
time you start with a new client, whether they're a
buyer or seller, because you don't know what's coming. And

(42:19):
for some people that's really uncomfortable. And I would say
the majority of people I talked to in real estate
love that. They love that. They're like, no day is
the same.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, no day is the same for most entrepreneurs as well.
One of the questions I'm always curious on is transferable skills,
and so I'm curious on what what do you see
as or were or are transferable skills that you had
from going from journalism and radio into real estate.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, thank you. I think a lot of it was
because I had had my own video company with some friends,
so I really know like and understanding.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
This is why it's so weird to me that you
said you're uncomfortable with video. I was like, wait, sound
was thrown off when you said that.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
No, I just think it's sometimes terrifying to get up
and realize, you know, if you just stop for one
second and think people are judging like your teeth, hair,
your clothes, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Well, my eye is half swollen shut from a stye.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Exactly exactly. I mean, we're human, right, So I think
that's part is terrifying. But if you can sort of
breathe through and understand it and talk to people like
you so we have a good report and also really
enjoy having a conversation, it makes it easier. But yeah,
I had a lot of video experience, so I love that.
I think that because I had been a toastmaster, it

(43:36):
made it easier to do things like give a listing
presentation because I wasn't so completely tongue tied. I have
been involved in a lot of the organizations around real estate,
like Women's Counsel. They've been very We had a lot
of opportunities to talk and speak, and I think that's
it's it's It was very comfortable for me to make

(44:00):
a transition because there's skills that were innate, and there
was things that I already liked to do and had
some skills with. But believe you me, there's plenty to learn.
It may be a different day every day in entrepreneurship
and real estate, but there's also learning something every day
because God knows we're human and we make mistakes, and

(44:22):
you get to learn on the job.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Right on the fly. There. Yeah, and so on this
public speaking train in that you were a toastmaster and
then obviously moving into the real estate and then you
have these listing things, these listing presentations that you have
to give. It gives you an edge the toes masters,
and then that radio, it gives you an edge. What

(44:46):
was it like for the people who didn't have the
training and how did you help them?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
You know? Actually, I'm so excited because I'm just I
think you said in my bio had just been made
one of the new coaches for a rollout program with
the company. It's like agent to agent coaching with the
agents who are coaching get coached. And it's pretty exciting
to be able to get people excited about their business

(45:11):
and help them recognize that it is a business. Right.
You understand, you're the CEO of your business, right, and
nobody can make it better or worse than you can.
You're the one who can do the work or not
do the work, and figure out what your goals are
and figure out ways to get there. But it takes, you, know,

(45:35):
it takes really looking at a lot of aspects of
yourself and what you want out of life. And I
think that's actually a really cool thing about being in
something in sales, it's not about learning how to be salesy.
I think it's learning about how to be a business owner.
It's about learning how to help others. It's about learning

(45:57):
how to be better than you were. And I found
that amazing, Like, I thought that was so cool. How
much education there is around at least my industry. And
I think a lot of entrepreneurial sales industries have that,
which is kind of cool, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
And I mean especially in real estate, where you do
have to give a lot of presentations. I know that,
you know, it's very challenging for a lot of newcomers
into the field, and you know, having a coach, having
a mentor having somebody help you through that, I think
makes it a lot easier and a lot better for you, because,
like you said, when you're in sales, I mean, it
doesn't matter if you work for a big corporation and

(46:35):
you have a manager and all this other stuff. So
obviously real estate's a little bit different, although you know
there's management all those other levels. The point that I'm
getting at here is that you're running your own business.
In sales, you have to figure out how to manage
your time, and you have to figure out how to
make sales and close deals and market yourself and do
all the rest. And at the same time, you have

(46:55):
to be a good presenter, a good speaker. And I
think you know, some of the other stuff come naturally.
Maybe you rose through the ranks and you know your
product really well and you are able to get into
that position very naturally. The public speaking part is typically
where people start having a lot of fear and anxiety,
and it can hold them back from getting to the

(47:17):
next level, and the next level could be closing another deal.
And so what I'm interested in is in your coaching,
what are some of the ways that you help some
of these newer sales people deal with some of these
public speaking anxieties that they might have.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Sure, I mean, I think that that's very true, right,
the old adage that people are more afraid to publicly
speak than do anything else, which I don't know if
that's really true. I think video has made a lot
of people more comfortable, but they were sort of afraid
of that because they felt like it was public speaking.
But with agents who are not quite used to understanding

(47:54):
that their business is their own, one of the things
we really work on is figuring out what their goals are.
And I say that because we sort of fantasize, right
we all think, oh, I just want to make more money,
or I just want to lose It's sort of the
same thing. I just want to lose weight. But if
you don't know where you want to go, how are
you going to create the actions that are going to

(48:15):
get you there. So one of the big things that
I do is work with my coaches to go through
a budget. But It can be a fantasy budget, it
can be everything from here. It's what are your living expenses?
What do you like to do? Oh you want to travel?
Where do you want to travel? Oh you want to
go to Kenya for a safari? Okay, how much is
it going to cost?

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
By the way, no, it's not going to cost five
hundred dollars. It's going to cost thousands and thousands. But
we're going to put that down by the end of it.
It shows them where they want to be and why,
and that I think is the best thing that anyone
can figure out in order to do their business. It's
either because the why is they want people to be

(48:58):
better because of the business, or the other aspect for
them as business owners is they want to be able
to understand why they're getting up in the morning, why
they're suffering through all the rejection when they're calling people,
or why they're going to do it all over again tomorrow.
If you don't understand why you're doing it, it's really

(49:20):
really hard to do. And I will say that for
me it's much easier as it usually is to be
an editor. I e coach. I'm not necessarily great at
telling myself get up again because you want to go
to Paris three times a year. I'm not good at that,
but I am good at reminding people that they should
be good at it.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeahs. Sometimes that's why we all need coaches. I mean,
it's so funny. I'll sit with my coach, Merit, and
I'll go over things that I've literally just coached somebody
else on about myself. I'll literally go over things and
I go, I just had this conversation with someone else,
or she'll say something to me that I just said
to someone else. But we I mean, that's why we

(50:04):
all need coaches. That's why it's so important that we
never think that, you know, our growth is done, because
it just never is. If you're striving for more. Absolutely
today you are striving for more. You are a speaker now,
and you're putting yourself out there to speak at conferences
and to speak on different stages, and I'm curious about

(50:28):
that role and what that venture looks like for you today.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Well, so I've been very lucky, and I know we
both talked about there are several really great training programs.
I know you're in one. I feel strongly I'm in one.
I'm actually one in one called Mike Drop Workshop with
jess Elkstrom, and it's really about and focused on getting
women on stages. And I laughingly you say, you know,

(50:52):
there's a lot of people are hiring male pale and
stale instead of female speakers, and they might call this.
Somebody has called them mantles instead of panels because there
are a lot of men. And no offense to any
of you guys, but it is a balanced world, and
there's so many women in business. It's vital to get
their energy because it's not always about like a particular

(51:14):
subject matter that's only you know, important to women. But anyway,
so I feel very lucky that I'm in the opportunity
to step into something that there's a hole in, that
there's a niche, right, But my speaking is a little
bit different, like you, I am working on a keynote,

(51:35):
a consistent keynote, and I feel like it's kind of
a funny subject and I have to figure out, like
all the corporations who are going to appreciate this. But
I talk about quitting, and I talk about reframing the
idea of quitting, because when we hear quitting, we think failure, loser.
And I was like, oh, man, like I feel like

(51:56):
such a loser. I stopped doing that, or I stopped
doing that, and I tried that, but I'm not doing
it anymore. And I really took till I heard that
quitting has been researched enough to understand that it's valuable.
If you are going forward doing something that's not getting
you somewhere. Why are you doing it? Why are you

(52:17):
continuing things and not making room for things you really
want to have to see? Whatever it is, it's like
the sunk cost fallacy and business of I put all
this money in, I got to keep going. Well, if
you put a million in and you stop, that's all
you've lost. If you keep going in still fails. Now
you're two million in. And so I think that it's

(52:40):
been really really fun to figure out something that is unconventional,
but ultimately I hope helpful because I think a lot
of us, again back to that judgment, feel like if
you're not seeing things through, right, have we all had
that parental you must go because you must see things

(53:01):
through on some level, that's very very true. You can't
just cop out on things, however, in your life if
things are not making room for the things that you
really want, why are you doing them? I just really
question people and I urge them to question themselves, not

(53:22):
just jobs or relationships, but really think about how are
you going to get to your goals and your purpose
if you're completely going in a different direction.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yeah, I think when you think about quitting, it's if
what you're doing is no longer making you happy, you know,
whatever it is, Like you said, relationship, job, If it's
no longer making you happy, then why are you doing it?
And I think that's a big difference between it's challenging
and you're quitting. I think the difference between the two
is that there are things that we love and that

(53:54):
we're passionate about, and they get challenging, they get hard,
and they make us want to quit because it's so hard,
and it's we just don't know how am I going
to continue? How will I push forward? How will I
get through this? How will I pay another bill? How
will you know this relationship last? But you know you
love it and you know you're passionate about it, and
you know you would do anything to continue. Well, then

(54:16):
that's a different type of quitting than what you're speaking to.
It sounds like what you're speaking to is you don't
love it, You're not passionate about it. In fact, you
probably chances are you probably got into whatever it is
that you're into because somebody else told you you should.
You probably didn't get into it for all the right
reasons I think of. You know, some of the jobs
I've had, and a lot of the times the reason

(54:39):
was because of the salary. It was, oh, they're offering
me x amount of dollars and that's why I'm going there.
Doesn't matter what the product was that they were selling,
that I was that I was selling, or that they
were offering me to sell. Doesn't matter what the product was,
or where i'd be going, or you know, what the
job looked like. I didn't care about anything. I just
looked at the salary. And so when things got hard,

(55:00):
guess what I would quit. Now. I want to make
sure that people know this because this is important. No no, no, no, yeah,
you're right. I didn't quit. I got fired instead. And
that's what I wanted to make sure is very clear,
is that I quit on the job and that's why
I got fired. So very very different. But what I'm
saying here is that when you're into something that you

(55:23):
don't care about, you quit. You just quit because if
you're in it for the money, or if you're in
it for the fame or for the you know, you know,
when I was just on a podcast recently for fitness,
if you're in it for the six pack abs, if
you're in it for these superficial things, which we understand
money is not superficial, but there's a certain number that

(55:44):
really is. If you're in it for all of those reasons,
well then when things get hard, you're just going to quit.
But you know, we talked about passion project. When you're
in something because you love it and money is no issue,
or the way you look is no issue, or the
fame or publicity you get from it is issue. In
other words, if it comes great, if it doesn't it doesn't,
well then that's not the same type of quitting. We're

(56:06):
talking about. Things get hard and challenging, and it's asking yourself,
do I have more? And I think anybody who's who's
a winner says, yeah, I got more. In the tank,
Brennan Burchard says, I and I love this quote is
You're stronger than you think. And I love.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
That that is so true. And I think that's really
what the message is, is that you you have the
right to lead your life. And you know, it's such
a it's a misnomer. And when you think about it,
think about like one of my favorite actors in the
whole world is Harrison Ford. Right, Harrison, I think was

(56:45):
like either a waiter or carpenter. I mean, he was
doing something like that, which I am not negating it,
but it is not Harrison Ford that we know, but
he had to quit that in order to act, right.
I mean, so everybody who's had success has had to
quit something. And it doesn't mean necessarily it's negative. If

(57:05):
somebody gets a great job at another company, yeah they're quitting,
that's one thing, but they're also they had to stop
one thing to move to the next. And I think
that's the really important thing for people to understand, is
that taking a lot of time with things that don't
give you what you need, whatever that means money or

(57:27):
pleasure or satisfaction. We have a finite amount of time
here on earth, and so to take the time away
from what you could be doing seems like a waste.
And I felt like I wanted to make sure people
knew that they weren't losers because they went in a

(57:50):
different direction. They're simply going in a different direction and
that's okay. And hey, by the way, that next direction
might not be right either, but they have to ping ping,
ping like all around and get to the right place.
You can't get to where you want to go if
you don't try, and you might not succeed. But then

(58:12):
that leads you. Okay. I think of life as those
wonderful charts, flow charts, like if you said yes, go here,
if you said no, go here, right, So that's where
I think about. People don't like what they're doing, so
what are we going to do about it? Well, we're
going to go to the left. Okay, now you tried that,
and we like this part about it, but maybe not this.

(58:34):
So now we're going to go the right. If that
makes sense. That's just the way I think people can
give themselves some freedom to really find their purpose and
enjoy as much as possible of their lives. And I
say that obviously we all have things we have to do.
So this is not a promotion of being irresponsible, but

(58:57):
it's really the idea that you don't need to berate
yourself for stopping.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Something I think there's also in terms of this conversation,
I quitting a good reason to take a pause in
your life of taking that moment, that step back, whether
it's quitting or being fired or or leaving a job,
however you want to position it or say it, Yeah,

(59:24):
taking a moment to gain clarity. Because you know what
made me think of saying this is when you're talking
about that ping ponging of job to job or bouncing
around and maybe that's not the right place and this
is the right place. And a lot of that is
almost wasted time because you're trying to find yourself. You're
trying to find well, who am I and what is
it that I want to do? And really at the
end of it is like what impact do I want

(59:46):
to leave on the world. And so if you're to
think about this finite time, which you said, and I
appreciate that, and you're thinking, okay, there, we do only
have this finite time. Let's just say that we're extraordinary
human beings and we live for one hundred years. Let's
just say we're extraordinary, we live for one hundred years.
Let's just call it that, right, Okay, So we're extraordinary,
We live for one hundred years? What is one hundred

(01:00:07):
years in terms of our planet's existence, in terms of
our galaxies existence? And I know this sounds like all
woo woo and crazy, but the truth is like, what
made me really think of this is I watched these
videos with my daughter Side Show Kids. Shout out Side
Show Kids, please publish her question. She's been asking me

(01:00:27):
about it. So if you're watching the Side Show Kids,
please Tenley has a question for you, and we emailed
you answer her question. But anyway, we watched Side Show Kids,
and what really put this in perspective for me is
they focus on dinosaurs and they focus on space, which
is always attractive to kids and adults like me. And
in the dinosaur one, I didn't know this. I mean

(01:00:49):
maybe it was taught to me in school, but I
missed this whole class. Maybe I was like absent from
a moment classes. And apparently there's like two different dinosaur
ages of like there was like this one dinosaur age.
I think maybe there's three. Actually I can't remember what
they all were, but there's there's the Jurassic Age, which
is like in between, and there's another one that was

(01:01:11):
before the Jurassic Age and one that was after, and
there's like hundreds of millions of years of dinosaurs, then
like fifty million years of nothing, and then another one
hundred million years of something, another hundred We're talking one
hundred million years and on the and and for humans,
it's hundreds of millions of years till we start coming

(01:01:32):
into an existence, right, and then from there to where
we are now is only thousands of years. And it's like,
wait a second, thousands of years we are a blip,
like not eve Like we're lucky to be a blip, right,
So back to the finite time. Right, If we have
this finite time and we're a blip, then it's so

(01:01:55):
vital that we live in true who we want to
be and the impact that we want to create in
this moment. Because even if you are you know, a
legendary you know, Achilles of some sort, right where you're
gonna let your name will live on for thousands of years,
it's going to disappear. You're not gonna be here for

(01:02:16):
millions of years, right, So what's the impact that you
can create today? And here's where I'm going with this
whole thing here, and that you're happy with and so
that's where that pause or that time of clarity is
so important, is that it's not just the impact, it's
that you're also happy in creating that impact, and so
in quitting in that moment, in that time, it gives

(01:02:39):
you such a great opportunity to start searching what impact
do you want to create? And that fulfills you and
that makes you happy. I know for me, I did
the bounce around and it wasn't until for me that
I was done with it. And maybe it's a good
opportunity to just share this. I've shared it once before
on my podcast, but I think it'll be good for

(01:03:00):
for everybody here in this moment is I didn't quit.
I quit in the job, and so therefore I was fired.
And that happened to me multiple times over, and the
last time that it happened to me, I was married
or I still am married. I was married, my wife,
we had our first baby, and my wife was pregnant.

(01:03:23):
And now I had other people in my life that
I had to share this with. You know, when I
was single and I got fired, it was like I
could tell anybody the story. I could tell anybody whatever.
All the banking industry or this right now, I got
to tell my wife, and then I have my mother
in law coming over babysitting my child so that I

(01:03:43):
and my wife can go to work. So there's a
huge moment here of like, I better figure this shit out.
And so what I did was I was embarrassed. I
was ashamed. It took me years to ever tell anybody
I ever got fired from any job. By this is
recent that I started being able to have the courage

(01:04:06):
to tell people I actually was fired from all those jobs.
But I was embarrassed. So what I used to what
I did, and this is why this moment of clarity,
and I think this story is important to everybody in
this conversation and maybe in your keynot. I don't know
if this helps you take notes on this. What I
did was I would make believe I would get dressed.
When my mother in law would come over to watch

(01:04:27):
my daughter Denise, I'd get dressed, and I'd make believe
I was going to work, and I would go to
a local hotel here in New Paul it's called the
Hampton Inn, and and other hotels that I would go
to because I wasn't the only one, but that was
the primary one that I remember visually vividly. I would
go there and I had my Tony Robbins tapes. It
was the first time that I really dove into too

(01:04:49):
personal development And from nine to five I was listening
to personal development because I was done. I was done
bouncing around. I wasn't going to find another job. I
was like, I don't want to find it another job.
I don't want to just go career chasing and money chasing.
I want to figure out, Michael, what's put Why Why
am I constantly going on this roller coaster ride of

(01:05:12):
you know, salesman of the year to failure, to quitting
to being fired. And it was through those personal development
days of listening to Tony Robbins putting the work into
action that I discovered what I wanted to become, in
the impact I wanted to create. And still it still

(01:05:33):
took many years to get to where I am Today's
that's twenty seventeen. I want to say twenty sixteen, twenty
seventeen is when that happened. But that is what put
me on the path to start finding my passion and
doing things like this and the work that I'm doing today.
And so it was that moment. And that's what I
want to go back to the quitting thing here in

(01:05:54):
terms of taking a pause and finding yourself. It was
that moment of taking that pause, like, yeah, I didn't
find myself right away, but you've got to pause. You
got to start really evaluating what matters in your life
and why does it matter to you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
And you couldn't have gotten where you are now in
terms of where you understand and know and love what
you're doing if you didn't quit. And that's sort of
my point is that quitting needs to be redefined because
it's really repositioning, or that's what it should be, because
I don't want it to seem like a luxury. I
don't want it to seem like something that only people

(01:06:32):
who are of a certain echelon or professional background or
socioeconomic height can can achieve. I think that it's really
valuable that people understand that they're not they're not it's
not negative, and that's the part that I think can
really get people down in a way that makes them

(01:06:55):
not able to go to the next step. You know,
if you're in a financially difficult situation, it's really hard
to turn yourself. But maybe the quitting is quitting saying
I don't have the opportunities, or I don't have the money,
or I don't you know, there's something that you're stopping,
there's something that you're turning away from. There's something hopefully

(01:07:17):
that you're turning towards. And I think that that's part
of the challenge, right, we don't always know what we're
turning towards. But if we turn away from things that
are not serving us, I guess people would say, if
it's not serving you, it's not beneficial for And again
I don't mean to give it the buzz of oh
be or irresponsible, but we have a general idea if

(01:07:41):
something's not serving us, it's probably not thus serving our
spouses or significant others or our children. They're it's not
to me selfish, it's meant to be self aware.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Yeah. It's like when you meet that person who's been
in a job for twenty or thirty years and they're miserable,
not just in the job, but at home. And that's
where I think your why your talk is so important,
why your your keynote is so important, Because they're they're
living a lit they've lived a life for thirty years
where they were miserable, and therefore the people around them,

(01:08:18):
their children and their families, their friends, were miserable in
their company. And so I feel like your speech, your talk,
your keynote is saving not just that person that's quitting,
but they're families. Because how many, right, how many people
have we met that are you know, the golden handcuffs
where well, I'm earning X amount and you know, I

(01:08:40):
gotta do it. I got to put food on the table.
And it's like, amen, you got to do it. We
get that. But you know, I think the people that
you're speaking to. I think the people that you're speaking to,
for the most part, and the people listening right now,
for the most part, have options. And sometimes taking that
one step back or maybe five steps back is what

(01:09:04):
propels you. You know, I just heard this recently about
the long bow. The long bow, and I forget exactly
the entire story. I think it was. I forget the
whole story. But the long bow, it's it's a bow
and arrow, and it was a battle in it was
a French battle that had occurred in the long a
long long time ago, and the bow mattered. And the reason, no,

(01:09:27):
it wasn't dinosaurs It wasn't Dinosa. There's no dinosaurs involved
in this. But it had to do with the long
bow and why the I think, I think why the
French were defeated. It doesn't matter who won the battle
or not. But what we're getting at, what I'm getting
at here is it had to do with taking a
long bow and that they were able to pull it
back further than the other side because it was not

(01:09:49):
just a bow and arrow, it was a long bow
and arrow. And because they were able to pull it
back further and angle it at one hundred and eighty degrees,
they had an advantage by being being able to be
more protected while firing their bow and arrow and while
firing it at a further distance to hit the target
and to win the war. And so when we think

(01:10:11):
about with quitting, sometimes we have to go further back
in order to catapult ourselves forward to be able to
win in life.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Absolutely, And when you think about it, that's a great
story about quitting, because that's that's exactly what it can be.
It can be a creative input because as a result
of taking that step, they benefited, but they had to
quit doing it the way they were doing it before
didn't they They had to quit. They couldn't be doing

(01:10:43):
it in a new way if they didn't quit. And
that's the part about quitting that I talk about for
corporate because it's not about quitting your job. It's about
figuring out how to do things differently. So you may
not love something about your job, but as there's something
you can create that is a different direction that allows

(01:11:05):
you to get more out of it, or allows you
to produce more, or there are just so many aspects
of it. But that's a great story. And that's exactly
what it is. It's not failing. It's actually that discussion
of failing forward, which I love.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I think I think too, because you bring up the
whole responsibility piece. And I think something that's important in
this moment of let's say, looking for clarity, or this
moment of pause or this moment of transition for everyone listening,
is that you start setting yourself up for your next move.

(01:11:44):
I think you know when I quit, So I did
actually finally quit my last job before I started on
my entrepreneurial journey. I mean, I guess my entrepreneurial journey
has always been a part of my life. I just
never really paid attention to it as significantly as when
I quit my six figure job. So since you put
salaries out there, I'll share this with everybody. I literally
went from making it was nine than six hundred and

(01:12:07):
fifty seven dollars. I think it was was my w
two at the insurance agency I was working at when
I was recruited by the top five broker in the
country and earned my dream salary of over one hundred
and twenty thousand dollars. And I was at that company
and while I was there, I knew I wanted to

(01:12:28):
start my own insurance agency. I knew I wanted to
start my own company and be a true entrepreneur and
be standing on my own. And about six months in
I was already working on what my agency was going
to look like. And about seven to eight months in
is when I started thinking about quitting. And it wasn't

(01:12:49):
I did go an entire twelve months, and the reason
why was because my wife had asked me, if I
could just stay there twelve months, you would make her happy.
But around seven to eight months was when I started
feeling like, all right, I'm ready to quit. And it
was because I knew what I was going to do next.
And so what I'm sharing with everyone here is I
quit my dream job. I quit the salary, I made

(01:13:12):
the thumbs up. I quit the salary that I had
always dreamed of. I quit my dream job. I was
working for the biggest program in the country. I had
all the support I ever wanted. I was selling the
biggest programs premiums that I ever could dream of. And
I quit it. But I quit it with a plan.
And I think that if if given an opportunity or

(01:13:33):
or given the time to be able to think of
what your next steps are, it's going to benefit you
when you're thinking about quitting.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Absolutely. And again, maybe I'm not explaining it well, because
I agree you don't want to ping from one thing
to the other randomly. But I do think it's much
like an investigation. Right, If you think of a police investigation.
They might go because they got a lead to go
to a particular restaurant, right, and the restaurant says, no, no, no, no,

(01:14:04):
that's not us, that's the other one. Okay, They go
the other one and they find out there that it
has to do with that particular staff. They wouldn't have
known that if they didn't go the first one. Then
they go to the staff and they find out something
about somebody who knows somebody, and that's who they go to.
So it's like, it's quitting to me, is really figuring

(01:14:26):
out deciphering what works. So you may quit and you
may not land where you think you want to be,
but you will eventually if you keep asking. I think,
and I'm probably not going to be able to tell
you who I'm quoting, but I've heard that it's only
twenty four questions to you for being a billionaire, your

(01:14:49):
twenty four questions from being a billionaire. And I don't
know if that's exactly true, but it's that point where
it's like, am I going to go this direction? That
didn't work, I'll go the other direction. I'm going to
go this direction. No, that didn't work. Let me try
in another direction. But because you're building on something, you
get to where you want to be.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Yeah, And I think, like to what you were saying,
I don't think you said anything wrong in terms of
like the quitting and pinging back and forth and trying
and discovering. You know, I'm just maybe just giving a
different perspective. I want to say that I think in
line with what you're saying in terms of that pinging
around and maybe going restaurant to restaurant twenty four questions away.
It's very similar to like Michael Jordan's I've failed or

(01:15:31):
I've missed, you know, ten thousand shots. I forget what
the number was. But it's really about, like you said,
failing forward. It's really about taking risks and taking chances
and realizing that you know, in the corporate space, you're
quitting because you're and you're looking for another job or
you're looking for the right job or the right career.
In the entrepreneur space, it's quitting because you want to

(01:15:53):
start your business. So it's it's quitting and not that
it'll be successful. I mean, my insurance business is nowhere
near what I had put in my business plan. In fact,
I don't know exactly where it'll end up. We're in
our third year, but we're not We're not anywhere near
where we need to be to be a successful insurance agency. So,

(01:16:16):
you know, just because I had this great plan and
did all the and and did all the air quotes
right things and quit and was following my passion and
was following my dream, it doesn't mean it'll end up
good either or or like uh fantastic either. It just
means that I quit and I did something. I went

(01:16:36):
for it, and that's the impact. I'm living out my dream,
the happiness, the fulfillment, and maybe maybe I'm successful at it,
maybe I fail at it. What have I learned from it?
And where do I go to next? And I think
that that's the pinging that you're talking about, is where
do I go to next?

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Yeah? In a good way, right, You're like, Oh, what's
what's what's the world showing me that I go to next?
I think you touched on a really good point. I
call it redefining quitting. But there's also redefining success amongst that,
because the way you just explained it is the average
person might have thought you made a successful move when

(01:17:16):
you went to the company that had a great salary,
but it wasn't the success that you wanted. You clearly
wanted to be able to go and have the opportunity
to grow your own business, and that makes you a success.
You clearly wanted to be able to have some outlets
that other people didn't. So doing a podcast makes you
a success. And I think that those go hand in

(01:17:37):
hand because we define things really tightly. And then back
to that judgment thing, we judge people really harshly. So yeah,
I mean Michael Jordan, he failed, he failed a lot,
but he also won a lot, and that's really the important,
right You might fail, you failed forty nine percent of
the time, and you win fifty one percent. Guess what

(01:18:00):
one you're successful or you accomplished or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Well, but it's like you said too, it's like your
what is your definition?

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
I typically ask people that, like what is your definition
of success? Because our definitions are going to be completely different.
You know, everyone's definition is going to be different. I
just had somebody on recently on the show. His definition
of success is one hundred million dollar company. My definition
is very different. Now. The lifestyle that he gets with
the one hundred million dollar company, I'm like, let's go
get it. But the work and the time he has

(01:18:31):
to put in to earn and to get that hundred
million dollar company I want no part of because that's
not my definition of success. I mean, we all want
the fun car and the cool trips, like you said,
the trips to Paris and all the different things, but
we also have to realize that comes with something else
and is that what you want? So when we define,

(01:18:51):
I think it's important that in that moment of pause
of quitting, is that define what success means for you,
not what everybody else is telling you. Don't go to
Google and ask what success or you know, what Cat
thinks or what Michael thinks, or what anybody think? What
do you think of success? Because that's going to just
define what your next moves are and what you really
want because I know that, you know Michael ten years

(01:19:15):
ago would have interviewed that person and said one hundred
million dollar company. I said, I want that that success,
not realizing that that means that I might be neglecting
my family, I might be neglecting my health. I mean
he even admitted that. He said that building his last business,
he neglected his health for four years and he's paying
the price today for it. So that might mean those things.

(01:19:35):
Is that success to me for me personally? No, it's not.
For you. It might be, and that's okay, you just
have to know what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
So basically, I'm just going to show this part of
the show to all my CoA chees because he said
exactly what I need them to understand is that you
need to understand what it is you want and if
it's above and beyond what you've got and you want more,
whether it's money or freedom or whatever it is, we

(01:20:07):
need to know what you're doing in order to succeed
with doing more of it, or you know, how do
we get there? And that's I think that's that's just
brilliant to think about it as what is your success
and don't think about anybody else. You're probably coming to coaching,
for example, because you want to do better quote more quote,

(01:20:32):
but you see you have more potential. It's usually what
it is. And so I think that you're always growing
and you should always be pushing the limit of what
you think success is. But it's interesting to think about
it as totally yours to define. And I think a
lot of people forget that if you're not a Kardashian,

(01:20:54):
you haven't succeeded. Well there, no, I mean, there's so
many amazing people the world, and I think people need
to hear that, I really do. I think people need
to hear how many wonderful ways we succeed and they
succeed and we can all succeed. That don't necessarily look
traditional or they don't look like the capitalists definition of it.

(01:21:19):
And the better we feel about ourselves, I think, Michael,
the better people feel about themselves makes them feel better
about others. And if we could feel better about others
and treat each other just a little bit better, I
think we can have a little more peace, inclusion, joy.
And so it really does start with us. And that's

(01:21:41):
why I think it's so vital to if you can
take time to reflect on what works and what you'd like.
And again, it doesn't mean quitting a job. It could
mean just saying, you know what, I've been taking the
same walk every single day, Like I actually want to
learn how to make jewelry, So I'm going to quit
the walks I start a jewelry making class. I mean,

(01:22:05):
whatever it is, it given me anything, right, it's creative,
it's yours. But the other thing, you know, it was
boring and it wasn't serving you. And that's all you
need to know is that you have the right to
pick things that do serve you, even if it's not everything,
but some aspect of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Yeah, And the other thing I want to say about
success is that everything comes at a price. Everything comes
with a price, and it's what are you willing to
pay for it? And you pay for it in different ways.
It could be financial, it could be time, it could
be health, it could be so many different things. And
so when we're on the topic of success or quitting,

(01:22:44):
it's what what are you willing to pay for what
you want? And I think back to what you were
just saying and being content with what you have. So
there's like this gratitude that comes out of this process
of realizing. You know, for me, I'll use myself as
an example here. I always wanted a Lamborghini, always wanted

(01:23:07):
a Lamborghini. Grew up right, the.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
First guy I know who feels that way, grew.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Up always right, grew up always wanting a Lamborghini, and
using the same idea here of one hundred million dollar business, well,
in order to get the Lamborghini outside of the you know, fluke,
make a million overnight kind of thing, which we know
never lasts. I mean, so many athletes winning the lottery,

(01:23:31):
so many stories of lottery winners, so many stories of
athletes who you know, go big and go bankrupt very quickly.
So we realize that it's fluke and it's overnight, and
that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about sustainable success, right,
And in order to keep sustainable success to own this Lamborghini,
what am I willing to pay for it? What am

(01:23:52):
I willing to sacrifice now for it? Because and I
say that now very importantly, because you could build a
sustainable business that can earn an x amount of dollars
that you can buy the Lamborghini, but you have to
give that time away in that present moment in order
to get that to then be able to enjoy it
maybe later on? Are you willing to do that? And

(01:24:16):
so always a choice, And so for me, I learned
that I'm not willing to do that, but I want
the Lamborghini. And that was the next part of learning,
was I'm not willing to pay the price, but i
still want the Lamborghini. No. When you hear about that,
that's where gratitude comes in, right, because that's where we understand, Okay, well,

(01:24:37):
if I'm not willing to do the work and I
still want the Lamborghini, what do I have instead of
the Lamborghini? What did I not give up in order
for me to not own the Lamborghini? I didn't give
up my health, I didn't give up my family, and
so therefore those are things I could start appreciating and
being really grateful for and start being present with. And

(01:24:58):
I say all of this for everybody listen in that
maybe there's something that you really really wanted growing up
or even right now, but realize what sacrifice you might
have to give to get it. And if that sacrifice
isn't worth giving, well, then whatever that sacrifice is, start
living in the present moment with that sacrifice and being
grateful for it. And that's going to help you get

(01:25:20):
through where you're at right now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
I love it again. I'm just going to show my
coaches that because it really is about that. It's like,
you can't have everything that you want without giving something
to it. You can't just say I want to make
more money but have no idea how to get there
and not understand that. I mean, we do it by numbers.
That's one thing about real estate that's really interesting is
when you are able to take units and what your

(01:25:45):
commissions are and how much you know an average house is,
and you put those all together, it really shows you
what you need to do. Right, So you want to
double what you're doing. You may have to talk to
ten more people a day. How how are you going
to talk to ten more people a day? How are
you going to connect with ten more people a day
about real estate? And if you don't again back to that,

(01:26:07):
if you don't know why you want to do something,
or you don't or you don't know the why of
why you're giving the time to this other thing? Is
you know the why could be traveled. But in order
to get there, as you said, you've got to do
something for it. Unless you win it, unless you inherit it,
you're going to have to do something for it. And
sometimes that's not comfortable. But I do think one of

(01:26:31):
the things Michael, that I really like about entrepreneurship, and
I think you probably are finding this too, is you
do get to give yourself some room to explore and
also do things differently. So that is one thing that
I really support. I in my industry, I know, I
feel like there's like certain things you're supposed to do

(01:26:52):
and I almost never did them, and I still succeeded
in the business because it was the way I wanted
to do it. I was not willing to just do
something because that was supposed to be the way you
do it. It's just not me. And that was sort
of that back to that, while I'm quitting doing that,

(01:27:13):
but I'm also going to do it differently so it's
working and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Yeah, I love how you've really broken out this whole
talk today. I'm glad you kind of brought it to
the not kind of, you've brought it to the table.
And it's such an important talk to share with people,
I think in your industry, in real estate. It's an
important talk because when we think about the real estate
industry and how it was created, there's a reason why

(01:27:39):
so many women who are involved in it, and it's
because they were, you know, either coming from being stay
at home moms or leaving a different workforce or looking
for an entrepreneurial outlet when there weren't many available, or
giving them the opportunity for one. And so you're dealing
with a lot of or you're working with a lot
of people that may have gone through the shame or

(01:28:01):
guilt of quitting. And so while your talk might be
inspiring somebody to quit where they currently are, I think
it's also validating those people who might have quit something
that they did. And by the way, I mean, I
see the work and effort that my wife puts into
raising our household, and she works too, And I used
to think it was fifty to fifty until we had

(01:28:22):
our second kid, and that's when I learned it was
never fifty to fifty always. I always say that, Like
with the first one, I was just like, it's fifty fifty,
it's fifty fifty. And then we had our second one,
I was like, whoa, it is not fifty to fifty.
She's shit's her. But I'm saying that even that alone
is sometimes feeling like quitting. There's a judgment that comes
in of like bailing on my family. Oh, how's the
laundry going to get done, how's the food going to

(01:28:42):
get on the table, how are the kids going to
get off the bus? And I know that because my
wife works and she worries about that stuff, and she's like, Michael,
can you do that? And I'm like, I'm their father,
of course I can do it. But so I think
the other important part of your talk is that you're
also valid dating these women and men, but validating these

(01:29:03):
women for the quitting that they had to do to
be in the role that they're in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Today exactly exactly. I really feel strongly that you should
give yourself permission to quit some of that negative talk,
to quit some of that negative self thinking, to quit
worrying if you're you know, a good dad, if the
laundry isn't all done, or you're a good you're only
a good mom if you get a I don't know

(01:29:30):
enough brownies to a bake sale. Right, I mean, there're
silly things, but we have to give ourselves permission to
let go. And that's that's the big take the lego
the things that may not be serving you to give
you room for things that are or will or can.
And so I thank you for highlighting that because I
really feel strongly that people need to give themselves some kindness.

(01:29:53):
And it's okay. It's okay to quit, it's okay to
be a quitted, it's okay to be You're not a loser.
That's the big thing. You're not a loser. You just
quit something. And so many people have and that got
them where they wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
That's right. Think of Harrison Forward and I think too
like in terms of quitting. I mean, there's a lot
of bad habits that quitting would be a good thing for.
So just think of it that way too, of like,
there's a lot of bad habits that quitting is a
good thing for. You know, I want to kind of
bring it back to toast masters and public speaking here,
and the reason why I want to do that is

(01:30:29):
you were we were speaking earlier on about our audience
and how important our audience plays a role, or how
how the role of the audience is important to us
as the speaker, and a lot of that has to
do with being a really good listener. We were talking
about the evaluator and having a good evaluator and providing
great feedback, being a great leader, and being able to

(01:30:50):
pick people up. And I think the common theme in
all of that is being a great listener. And what
reminded me to bring this back up for this conversation
as we kind of conclude here, is you've been a
great listener. You know, a lot of times I sit
on the other end here and I'm the listener. I'm
listening to everything the guest is saying, and I love it,

(01:31:13):
right because that's part of what my show is all about.
And I always know when I get somebody on that
is in the public speaking space, that is a presenter,
is a performer, is a keynoter, is someone like you
as a past host master. That we're gonna have a
great conversation. And the reason why I know that is
because it's not just going to be a one sided

(01:31:34):
of me just listening and then just talking. It's going
to be this like I felt like a tennis match
without the competition involved, but like just the volleying back
and forth and back and forth, and so much has
has to do with your listening etiquette and you're listening skills.
And so I'm interested to throw it back to you
here on where you picked that up and what you

(01:31:57):
can share with our audience. I'm becoming better.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
Listeners, sure, I mean, I really appreciate that, and thank you.
I think it's it's a practice I tend to with
the people i'm closest to that like, stop finishing my sentences.
I'm like, I'm just so plugged into what you're saying.
I'm really listening. I'm not trying to take over, But
so it's a practice sometimes I really have to, you know,
puite my tongue. But I think that the conversation aspect

(01:32:24):
of relationships has always been really valuable to me. I've
been very lucky that I had a family that would
sort of sit after meals and chat and have a conversation.
My fiance and I will have a sit down just
he'll get back and we'll like have a cup of
tea and have a conversation. So for me, that's super exciting,
and it's like a way to really have a relationship

(01:32:47):
with someone is to have a conversation. I think in
the public speaking space, we have to be having a
conversation with our audience, even though it's technically one sided.
The idea is that you're having a conversation where the
people are kind of going, I understand, I understand what

(01:33:08):
you're saying, and you know, you ask a question. I know,
you talk to people in the audience and ask them
for their feedback. It's so great when they give it,
but sometimes they don't, but you're still having a conversation
like it's a relationship. And so I think that the
listening part is both internal and external, and it's curiosity.

(01:33:30):
If you're not curious about things, then you probably aren't
going to want to hear what other people say. And
I think I feel very lucky. Again, it goes back
to some of the media of journalism. The reason you
ask questions is because you're curious, like why did you
take that money or why did that barricade have to
come down? It doesn't matter what the subject matter is,

(01:33:51):
it's curiosity. So if we can plug into how curious
we are about what the other person is saying, then
I think it comes more naturally. But it's not easy.
We're very good at having something to say. And the
one thing I'll say is, I think it was Toastmasters
where I was told I think I said this to

(01:34:12):
you when we first met that a conversation is about
and not like on a podcast or a speaking but
a real conversation should be about forty seconds back and forth.
Like you get thirty to fifty seconds. I get thirty
to fifty seconds. And we all know that person who
I like to call it tangential speaking. They're like, Hi, Michael,
it's so nice to meet you. I'm glad I'm on

(01:34:33):
the podcast. Podcasts are really interesting. I'm really interested in podcasts.
I listened to one in the car the other day,
and the new car I got was a Toyota and
I got you know, and you're like, dude, that's not
a conversation whatsoever. That's just you yammering on and listening
to your own voice. So that might be a great
way to think about it is has the other person
had a chance time yourself think about it? Practice?

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
It's practice, Yeah. And I think with what you were
saying too, is are you offering value? And because I
think it does apply to podcasts too, and I know
that I've gone on longer than forty seconds and you've
gone on longer than forty seconds, I think the important
piece there is are you adding value to the conversation
or to the people listening as you're speaking? If you're
to your point, if you're just popping from subject to subject,

(01:35:19):
from item to item, well, then what value is there
in any of that You haven't received any feedback on
whether that connects with them or doesn't connect with them.
So I think that that's very important. The other two
things I want to highlight here is curiosity. One of
the tips that we get from toast Masters and from
so many other organizations in terms of listening is to

(01:35:40):
listen without asking questions. I'm saying this intentionally, this way
is to listen without formulating your own questions, to listen
without formulating your own thoughts or ideas that are coming
up next. I like that you said to always be curious,
because I think that that's the remedy. Is it's easy
to say, don't think of your next question or don't

(01:36:00):
think of your next thought. It's easy to say that,
but then it's like, well, how do I put that
into practice? And I like that you said to be
curious because if I'm truly curious, which I typically am
of my guest like yourself, if I'm truly curious about
what you're thinking, well then I'm just gonna sit and
listen and just be a sponge to what you're saying.
And therefore I don't have any questions. And sometimes I

(01:36:21):
get caught, like I got caught like three times with you,
which happens rarely for me. Well, no, this is wonderful.
This is a good thing. Like I think it's a
good thing. Sometimes when I don't have a question, like
it kind of catches me off guard because I'm like,
I'm a podcast host. I need to have the next
question lined up. But also sometimes I get lost in
what the other person is saying and you did that

(01:36:43):
to me three times today, and that means that I
was so involved or so curious on your story that
I was like, I don't have another question yet, and
I was like, oh crap, I better get to my
notes and what's next, what's next for her? So I
think that that's a huge piece and a compliment to you,
of course. And then the other one that I love
that you said because people do not think about it

(01:37:05):
is practicing to practice our listening skills, like who is
in your life right now, who maybe is a storyteller
or maybe is that tangential talker? Use that because you're
not going to change them as a listening opportunity. How
long can I go?

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
Oh? I literally sometimes am like I want to say something,
I want to say something, and I just have to
But you know what, And I was thinking, oh my gosh,
this person is like going on and on and on.
But I was I was like, here, I am. She
obviously needs somebody to be the listener chanted up, you know,

(01:37:45):
becoming a good friend. So you never know, you never
know what it'll lead to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
But they come and we'll all walks in shapes of life,
I mean, and that's again that's why I think you
know toastmasters or even even networking networking places like Chambers
of Commerce, the different associations you're part of, serving on
a board or a committee. So I'm not talking about
just going to the events where you can just be

(01:38:10):
that tangential speaker. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking
about serving on a board or a committee to where
there are agendas and there are speaking times and you
actually only have a certain amount of time to speak.
Is very beneficial to anybody who maybe thinks that that's
what kind of speaker they are, because it puts you
in a position where I got to get this thought
out in two minutes, so I can't go off about

(01:38:33):
my cat and my dog and my car and my
house and my life. I have to maybe touch on
it so I could give some people some context, which
is fine, but also I have to get to the point.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things we train about coaching.
We only have half an hour for a coaching session.
So while it's really nice to shoot the shit, I mean,
you just don't have time because you're five minutes in
and now you've lost that time. So it may seem
a little kurt, but the truth is not going to
get anywhere if we don't really hone in. So I agree.

(01:39:04):
I think that's great and and honestly those are good
practice because you are if you're there and you're not listening,
why you're there, Like why are you not? Why you're there?
That's literally why you're part of the committee or group
or networking is to hear others. Like if you needed
to be alone to hear yourself, go in the bathroom
and put your brush up to your mouth and whenever.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
You know what I mean, just start your own podcast exactly.
Something I always like to learn about my guest is
a philosophy, a statement, a mantra that you might live
by or that you reassert with, you know, on a
maybe daily, monthly, annual basis. What's something for you that

(01:39:47):
really stands out?

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
Uh. One of my friends just said to me her motto,
which was like be funny or die, And I was like,
what is my mod? And the first thing that came
up with was like cake is life. But that probably
is not exactly what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
But if that applies to you, it's fine life.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
Yeah, But I think I have to I have to
really come up with something succinct. But for me, it's
all about no. I'll tell you what. I've got a
tattoo of it, so I know it. It's Las de vive,
the French for the joy of life. And I think
that it's very, very very easy on a daily basis
to forget what joy is, what can be joy. And

(01:40:36):
again this is part of the issue of quitting, Like
if you're doing something you're not getting joy out of, why,
Like we don't have the time to do that. We
need to be moving toward the direction of joy. So
yeahs de vive, that's what I would offer.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
My follow up, of course, is where's the tattoo? And
we and we know where it is now.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
It's way more public than you would think, but it's
it's on my arm, but my water is horrified, Like
people can see that. I'm like, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Well, it's better than your bottom, I suppose, right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
I guess it depends how much you're sharing your bottom.
If that's part of your business, then maybe it's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
I in real estate, the goal is not to share
your bottom.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
That that is right, That is right. I love that
Ui de viv and it's it's it's not just a statement,
it's a feeling of of what we what you've brought today,
of like this just joy to be here. You know.
I could feel it when we communicated the first time.
This excitement to meet each other, and your excitement via

(01:41:47):
emails back and forth of getting on today and even
just us setting up our cameras together. There's a different
energy that you brought that isn't always brought, you know.
There there are definitely guests that come on that have
done this, you know, so many times that it's no
longer it doesn't have it's same allure, or they're doing

(01:42:11):
it because their company or their pr manager told them
they should do it, and so they have a different
they bring a different energy. It's not to knock them
in any way. But what I'm saying here about you
is that you had this energy and it was nervous
and it was excited and it was just like coming
in here and you were just so happy to be here.
That you truly live into that statement, and so I

(01:42:34):
love that that's your mantra.

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
Well, thank you. I do appreciate that, and that is
one of the great things about being in the businesses
I'm in in the business you're in, and I really
am grateful for the invitation, and I do think that
it's super fun to have somebody who's doing what you're doing,
but in a different way. Like what you speak about
and who you are. It's going to be different obviously
than what I speak about who I am, But the

(01:42:58):
fact is we have this like commonality and to understand
that's the goal of sharing with other people, because I
know you shared that with me about how you speak.
I haven't seen you speak, but I know that the
feedback from like Howie is it's amazing and that you
really bring who you are. And again, it just goes

(01:43:19):
back to that idea of authenticity and being yourself and
getting the opportunity to be yourself. So I'm grateful. I
can't wait to see you speak. I'm sure they're going
to be on humongous stages sooner than later. This is
this first speech is just going to be your catapult
and then Sia, try to remember the little people.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
It's exciting. I'm very excited. And again, you know, again
it goes back to toast Masters real quick, and that
it was my first mentor of toast Masters. Linda Grace Farley,
who pulled me aside and said to me, I think
it was her, but she used somebody else who's third party,
And I think that was kind of her way of
getting me to listen. Where she said to me, she goes,
you know, Michael, you're a great speaker, but what some

(01:44:00):
other people have said to me is that you're not
really showing your true self and you're kind of like
faking it when you're up there. They all have said
that they really want to see your true self. She
said it some way like that. I just remember her
putting it as a third party, but I'm like, Linda,
I know it was you, and I'm so grateful that
she did, because that's when I went from if you
look at my old YouTube videos, from like having this

(01:44:22):
like tone and this way of speaking that was deaf
to my audience, to being more engaged with my audience
and being more authentic being me. I mean, the truth is,
I don't speak like this all the time because this
is kind of like my podcast voice and how I am,
but it's truly me and I'm authentic with who I am.
And so it was it was something that really changed

(01:44:43):
my speeches and my public speaking. I guess Aura.

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
Now I have a coach. I just submitted a five
minute I guess test of a speech, and the worst
part about it was I knew that it felt like
it was script. It wasn't. And it's really hard right
to speak for five minutes enough to convey how what
kind of speaker you are. So that's a practice. But

(01:45:09):
I'm with you, and I can't wait to see you
because you're going to inspire me more and more. I
think it's about not a script. I think it's about
looking to people on back again to that conversation. If
you're in a script, you're speaking one direction. If you're
talking and speaking with people, then you're in another. And

(01:45:30):
my coach calls it spotlight versus lighthouse. So spotlight means
you are that you're at everybody's there for you. You're
the star. But if the lighthouse, you think about it,
the lighthouse light like covers everybody and it goes back
and forth, and it kind of covers everybody and then
goes back and forth. And that's the goal I think

(01:45:54):
of great speakers is to make sure that it's not
just about them. In fact, it's not about them at all.
It's really about this wide array of people who are listening.

Speaker 1 (01:46:03):
It's always about the audience. Of course this will be
in the show notes, but if you could share with
all of our audio listeners any way to connect with
you social or any other websites or anything that you
want to share.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
Absolutely, it's basically wherever you are. It's Kat dot Timson
at so either Instagram, Facebook. I do have a website
because everybody in Coblo Banker has one. I don't know
if it gets used as much as I'd like, but
I'd love to connect with anyone on Instagram LinkedIn Facebook.
I don't know to be able to use face. I

(01:46:34):
don't get to use Facebook a lot. It's just not
something that I'm involved with completely. But Instagram for sure.
So DM me anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:46:43):
Awesome, Awesome, It's been such a great conversation with you.
I've really had a fun time me too.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
Thank you for listening to the Michael Esposito Show. For
show notes, video clips and more episodes, go to Michael
Esposito Inc. Dot com Backslash Podcast. Thank you again to
our sponsor, dan ten Insurance Services, helping businesses get the
right insurance for all their insurance needs. Visit Denten dot
io to get a quote that's d N ten dot

(01:47:14):
io and remember, when you buy an insurance policy from Denten,
you're giving back on a global scale. This episode was
produced by Uncle Mike at the iHeart Studios in Poughkeepsie.
Special thanks to Lara Rodrian for the opportunity and my
team at Mike Lesposito, Inc.

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