The Modern White Man
Co-hosts Ken Lawrence and Paul Johnson discuss how to be a Modern White Man who is antiracist, antisexist, and understands his role in creating an equitable society. Ken and Paul unpack their identity as White men by having honest, open - and sometimes difficult and uncomfortable - conversations about being a White man. Where White men come from, White men’s place in today’s society, and roles White men can play moving forward as allies, leaders, and individuals who care about creating an equitable society where all races and genders thrive. Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com.
Episodes
January 12, 2023 • 41 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by Dawn Johnson.
Dawn is a mentor, motivator, and life coach. Through her organization, The Dawn Johnson Experience, Dawn provides both life coaching and diversity training. Her work focuses on individual wellness and disrupting long-standing institutional barriers resulting from microaggressions, privilege, and racial inequities.
This episode discusses:
- Dawn's experiences and insights from her over 20 y...
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October 31, 2022 • 63 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by Tsitsi Zawaira.
Tsitsi is an advocate, business consultant, and aspiring writer currently working on a book about the concept of Black implosion and authors the Unbowed Spirit Newsletter on Substack. She has worked for organizations both in the United States and Zimbabwe doing work focused on the eradication of gender based violence. Tsitsi, being from Zimbabwe, brings a unique perspective on race and g...
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September 20, 2022 • 55 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by Donte Curtis.
Donte is the owner of Catch Your Dream Consulting where he inspires and trains individuals and teams nationwide on leadership, racial equity, antiracism, and making practical change. Donte brings his 14 years of facilitation and speaking experience with an expectation of getting you energized, you taking practical action, and finding hope for a better tomorrow.
This episode discusses:
- H...
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August 23, 2022 • 57 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by multi-published author and the founder of Evolutionary Workplace, Jill Nagle.
Jill believes many more problems than we realize can be solved with real-time conversations. She works with anti-racist leaders and organizations using cognitive, somatic, and strategy-based tools to help them create better conversations, sharper perspectives, and more effective strategies to align their actions with their idea...
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July 28, 2022 • 57 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by the Executive Director of Black Men Teach, Markus Flynn.
The mission of Black Men Teach is to recruit, train, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. Their goal is for each of their eight partner schools to have 20% of their teaching staff be Black men within six years, by which time they will have built a pipeline that will provide 100 Black male elementary teachers within ten years...
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July 11, 2022 • 14 mins
In this minisode, Ken and Paul discuss how a caste system both intertwines with and differs from racism and how the distinction can help to understand inequities.
They discuss:
⁃ How racism becomes easily deniable by shape-shifting and manifesting itself in covert ways.
⁃ How a caste system does not allow us to ignore structure; caste is structure and ranking.
⁃ That casteism is the investment in keeping the hierarchy as it i...
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June 22, 2022 • 55 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by Hugh Kenety.
While Ken and Paul both had similarly homogenous White upbringings, Hugh has been culturally immersed in many different spaces involving different nationalities, races, cultures, and socioeconomics since a young age. He grew up in the melting pot of Rosemary Hills in Silver Spring, Maryland, where he was often the only White guy in the room.
Hugh’s lived experience of growing up in a non-W...
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June 10, 2022 • 12 mins
In this minisode, Ken and Paul discuss the importance of tapping into emotions when doing identity work, rather than solely intellectualizing. They check in on how they are individually doing on embracing emotions, and how it critically leads to empathy and compassion.
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com and watch interviews with guests on TMWM's YouTube channel www.you...
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May 24, 2022 • 57 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by the author of "A White Guy Confronting Racism: An Invitation to Reflect and Act," Jared Karol.
In addition to his book, Jared is the Head of Product Experience at Translator. For more than 20 years he has been a DEI consultant, public speaker, and facilitator—specializing in guiding White people to confront racism and be unapologetic antiracists. Jared has extensive experience in Fortune 500 companies, f...
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May 10, 2022 • 66 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by Ellie Krug. Ellie is a writer, lawyer, and the founder of Human Inspirations Works, LLC. She is the author of the book “Getting to Ellen: A Memoir About Love, Honesty, and Gender Change” and has presented on diversity and inclusion to Fortune 100 companies, law firms, nonprofits, and colleges/universities on more than 1,000 occasions. In 2016, she was named by Advocate Magazine as one of the 25 Legal Advo...
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April 25, 2022 • 59 mins
Ken and Paul are joined by TMWM's first guest, Becky Evan. Becky is an Assistant Professor of Management at Metro State University. Her research and experience is focused on enhancing an organization's diversity and inclusion programs. She’s especially interested in breaking concrete and glass ceilings so women and people of color can flourish in leadership positions.
This episode discusses the research report titled "Diversity, ...
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April 11, 2022 • 29 mins
In this minisode, Ken and Paul discuss a situation in the hockey world that involved an accusation of racism. They explore:
- How the situation is a great example of intent vs. impact: how the intent of what you thought you were doing may not align with the impact it had on another.
- How that framework can help us have healthy conversations when confronted with difficult situations or accusations.
- Why we must strive to have a...
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March 29, 2022 • 52 mins
In recognition of Women's History Month wrapping up, Ken and Paul take a pulse on one of the core purposes for existing at The Modern White Man: to be antisexist.
They define antisexist, share examples of what they are working on for gender equity, and lay out goals for what more they want to work on. The conversation is to keep continuous momentum on being White men who are antisexist.
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscr...
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March 7, 2022 • 10 mins
In Ken and Paul's first "minisode," they share an example of how using buzzwords - like "oppressor" and "victim" - can spark defensiveness, limit engagement, and prevent progress for racial equity. They discuss how, as White men, we have to check that.
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com.
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January 13, 2022 • 3 mins
Ken and Paul announce what's coming next in 2022 as they launch Part 2 of the podcast: collective action.
Listen for more on what to expect, including interviews and conversations with BIPOC folks and other Whites - both White men and Whites with different identities - to collectively discuss how they are addressing inequities and how they view White men in equity movements, as being leaders at organizations, and where they beli...
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December 6, 2021 • 48 mins
In recognition of the 20th episode, Ken and Paul revisit a few topics that they've discussed so far on TMWM. They identify what has stuck out to them, where they have grown, and what they still want to work on.
They also provide suggested action steps that listeners can take from the journey so far to help move up the ladder of empowerment towards having a positive, White antiracist identity.
Referenced from the discussion:
- La...
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October 27, 2021 • 56 mins
As a follow-up to the discussion on white supremacy in episode 18, Ken lays out to Paul his case for labeling those characteristics as the "dominant culture characteristics" instead of "white supremacy culture characteristics," and how white supremacy - still present - fits into that.
They discuss examples of how shifting the label may result in encompassing even more workplace inequities, with the goal of making progress towards...
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September 13, 2021 • 63 mins
Ken and Paul define white supremacy and discuss how "white supremacy culture" shows up in everyday life, including in the workplace. They share their own experiences of being susceptible to it, and Ken explains how he still wrestles with it in the professional setting.
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com.
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August 23, 2021 • 51 mins
Ken and Paul pick up where they left off in episode 16 to finish their discussion on the process of creating a positive White antiracist identity. They focus on how to move from opening up/acknowledgement to existing in a community of love and resistance.
They provide examples - including their own experiences - for each stage, which can help to provide clarity to where we are in the process and how to make progress.
Referenced ...
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July 19, 2021 • 58 mins
Ken and Paul discuss a framework that maps out the identity process to being a White antiracist, which can provide clarity to where we are in the process and where we are going. The topic was brought about by a listener who reached out because he is experiencing guilt and shame - an inevitable, and difficult, part of the process.
They discuss the stages leading up to and including guilt and shame, and why - even if it may seem con...
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