Jenna Carlton: How A Millennial Navy Veteran Turned Pain Into Purpose

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We trace a raw, hopeful route from burnout and impostor syndrome to practical community, women veterans’ needs, and real-world resources that work. Jenna shares why “moderate” matters, how to face trolls, and what it takes to turn service into daily service.

• bridging service, leadership, transition, and civilian readiness
• creative work vs burnout and boundaries
• impostor syndrome as a sign of growth
• handling trolls and viral backlash with perspective
• loneliness in large cities and shrinking veteran cohorts
• civilian misconceptions and hiring gaps
• standards, professionalism, and social media culture
• VFW myths, membership, and post-level change
• reimagining posts with family-first, health-forward programs
• therapy fit, VA literacy, and peer recommendations
• women veterans’ safety, visibility, and health topics
• housing navigation and landlord education for veterans
• journaling as a tool for identity and healing
• first steps when you feel lost after service

“Formation Nation, take what you heard today. Make sure you check on your people as well. Community is not luxury, it’s survival.”

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
I have a long time podcasting uhmilitary content friend of mine
on the podcast today.
And here on the MorningFormation, we bridge military
service leadership, transition,and the fight to stay ready in
the civilian world.
I'm your host, KP FormationNation.
Today we have a very powerfulvoice in our community, Jenna

(00:23):
Carleton, known across socialmedia as the Millennial Veteran,
a U.S.
Navy veteran, host of VetChairs, founder of Millennial
Veterans Community, and theauthor of The Veteran Workbook.
Jenna, you become one of theleading voices helping post-9-11
veterans rediscover theirpurpose, identity, and
connection after service.
I want to thank you for givingus your time and attention

(00:46):
today.

SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
KP, we go way back.
Um, you were there at thebeginning of my journey, way
back when I had maybe, I don'tknow, less than 2,000 followers
on IG.
And uh it's cool to see how ourjourneys have continued.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Continue.
That's a big that's a big wordbecause uh there's a few people
that I know that have droppedoff that have have kind of found
that fork in the road.
And not that that's a bad thing.
I mean, everybody has their ownjourney, but I want to talk
about that real briefly becauseman, I I can tell you that I
experience burnout all the time.

(01:26):
Like people don't realizesometimes that we have regular
lives, like full-time jobs,things breaking at the house
that you have to fix, uh, kids,family, I mean, you name it.
I mean, how how's it been foryou?

SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Yeah, I've been um kind of on a vacation lately
because I haven't been working,but I've just created so much
more work for myself.
Um, because you know, you gottastay busy, otherwise you're
gonna lose it.
And um yeah, that that causes meto burn out because I love
working on all things veterans.
But it is it is hard to bearound other veterans constantly

(02:05):
and you know, trying to be abright spot for others and while
also like dealing with your owninner inner battles.

SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
What do you tell yourself when you think about
how much free time, extra freetime you would have if you were
just to stop?

SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Oh do you keep going?

SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Because I can tell you that that voice is in my
head all the time.
I'm like, man, if if I couldjust if I could just drop doing
the podcast, drop doing content,the money, the time, the energy
that I would save would beawesome.

SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
Yeah, uh I don't know.
I guess I I feel like I wouldfill it with with bad habits.
I have such a tendency toself-sabotage.
And if if I'm not beingproductive, I feel like I'm
failing.
I need to work on that.
Um but I honestly I think myversion of that is like how much

(02:59):
mental capacity I would have tobe a little more um to show up
for others in my life a lotbetter.

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
I really think that I would regret it because
productivity is something thatis is a true measurement for me.
Um it's good to benon-productive, as in waste your
time, you know, mentally to kindof zone out, right?
Read a book, play your videogames, whatever, but I know a

(03:29):
lot of people that just waste anincredible amount of time doing
things that's more or less gonnaset you back, like going and
drinking beer almost every otherday, or just I don't know, man.
I'm like, well, like how do youafter doing that, how do you
feel like fulfilled?

(03:51):
And like that's what I thinkabout is like if if I didn't do
this, if I wasn't sitting heretalking to you, broadcasting
this out to my tens of fans,just kidding.
Um, if if I wasn't sitting heredoing this and had this
opportunity, like what else kindof nonsense would I be doing,
like during my free time?
So I I feel you on that.
And that's it's been what fouryears I've known you now?

SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Yeah, at least.

SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's been uh I've watchedyou I've watched you grow over
the years, and you are naturallycreative.
Like even when we logged intothis podcast today, I saw your
microphone, and it's just asimple USB microphone.
And I and I made a comment aboutit because I'm over here with

(04:38):
this$400 audio mixer, thisreally expensive microphone, and
all this fancy stuff, right?
And then you just have that, butso everything that you're doing
is Jenna.
Like you are the you are thecreative, like you are the
reason why you are successful.
Like you're not propped up likeI am with audio mixers and all
this sexy equipment and stuff.
And I I'm very proud of you forfor writing a book, doing the

(05:01):
workbook, um, and and hanging inthis game for so long.

SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
Thank you.
I I really needed to hear thatbecause like we talked about,
I've just been burnt out withlike, you know, when we started,
I was really just doing stuffonline.
I was looking for other veteransto connect with and and
constantly like chasingsomething with you know, putting
out content.
And now I feel like I'm doing somuch more in person and like it

(05:28):
really has consumed my wholelife, like doing stuff with
other veterans, and it it's evenmore draining now.
You know, I I find it like notas much of an outlet, more of a
chore.
And I like to um I like when Ihave something to post because
it's been on my heart, and I'mlike, I need to share this.
I don't even care who reads it,I just need it out of me.

(05:51):
And that's those are my favoritetype of posts to do.

SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
How do you fight the imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
I I've tried to look at it as a good thing, and
honestly, I've been thinking ofthat.
I was like, Jenna, you're toocomfortable lately, you know?
And I know it's a good thing,but I'm just like like looking
at different things to try, um,even outside.
But I feel like I have been toocomfortable lately and not
pushing myself.

(06:18):
And I I want to feel like animposter.
I like that feeling because itmeans that you're learning.

SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
Do you push yourself or do you have someone that
pushes you?
Um that encourages you tochallenge the challenge that
line.

SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
Yeah, it's it's definitely if it's not myself,
it's you know, some of my olderladies, my older lady veterans
that um constantly check in onme, constantly give me new
opportunities and say, you woulddo this, you're great.
Um, you know, it just makes merealize like, wow, I I could do
this, you know?
It's like that little push.

SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
Yeah.
I think that's really importantis to have uh that encouragement
to kind of push the push theline because I know you've been
challenged.
You're you're on social media,you've got every troll out
there, every keyboard warriorout there, you're a female,
you're navy.
Um, what else do they bring up?

(07:18):
Like all these different things,all these negative things,
right?
So how how is that how how haveyou been uh dealing with that
and handling that and combatingthat that whole front?

SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
I'll be honest, and I hate to say this because it's
not reality for a lot of people.
Um I don't even care about anyhate comments.
I I it all it tells me is thathey, my my content is reaching
outside of my audience becausenobody in my audience would
comment on my stuff.
And that's the only way you growis if you go outside your

(07:49):
audience.
So I'm just like, oh, okay, I'mreaching a new part of the
internet that doesn't know who Iam.
They're a little triggered bywhatever I'm saying.
So that's a good thing becausethat means it's showing other
people that haven't seen mebefore.
But it took me so long to getthat.
I had so many therapy sessions,and especially when my when my
video went viral back in Marchabout me losing my federal job,

(08:12):
that that ripped me open becausepeople were attacking my
personal life.
I had shared about my kids.
And when when people attack myfamily or like say that I I
should be doing more as amother, that hurt really bad.

SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Yeah.
Have you met anyone in personthat's had the guts to say
anything that they would sayonline, or most of these people
just hiding behind theirscreens?

SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
Had people be rude to me, especially in veteran
spaces and probably people youknow.
Um, but never say anything, youknow, like never a stranger.
Like this internet it people onthe internet are strangers, but
I'd never have a stranger comeup to me and say anything ever.
Um I might get some eye rolls atthe VFW once in a while, but

(09:01):
that's it.

SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
That's something that, you know, it's it's funny
because there's certain peoplein this space that I love
talking to and I'll talk to overand over again.
Because of that reason, like Iam very I'm not looking to just
grab anybody to talk to and havea conversation.
Like I want quality people thatare authentic and are here for
the right reasons.
And um, I've had people reachout to me before and say, hey,

(09:26):
you know, I want to I want to beinterviewed.
And sometimes I just don't getto them.
And other times it's like I'mjust not really interested.
Like I don't think we have anyany any vibe.
Like I don't think we you and Iwould have a good conversation.
Like I don't just go to the barand talk to everybody there,
right?
There's certain people that youtalk to, and then there's at
certain events, and then there'sothers that you don't.

(09:47):
And I've actually met you inperson at the Mick and um you
stole my tickets for the uh forthe dinner, right?

SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
Yes.
Yes, I did.
Did you go this year?
I did not go.

SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
Are you uh planning on going back in the future?

SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
I'm not.
I'm not for personal reasons.
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:09):
Gotcha.
What about any other uh umconventions coming up?
You plan on going to any socialmedia or um want to because that
was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
I loved I loved going to the military influencer
conference.
I had a blast.
I feel like I finally found mypeople.
It was like the first time in mylife where I was like, oh my
gosh, I'm around other peoplethat really are authentic, are
pushing themselves and reallycare.
I cried with so many differentpeople there.
Um I felt the love, so I wouldlove to do that again.

SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
Yeah, I thought it was a great stepping stone for
me to get out and to get intosort of a colosseum of others
with different things going on.
But I would love to next yeartake the next step and actually
go to a content creatorsconvention, just a civilian one
or a podcasting one.
I think that would be reallycool.

(11:01):
Plus, think about it.
I mean, someone as talented andcreative as you in a pool of
like you like you will be thelike the niche, like you will be
the expert of the like thatwould be cool versus like being
in a sea of like, you know,entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs,
and I think I'm this and I'mthat.
You know what I mean?
Like that's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
No, I love that.
I I've never thought of that,and I think that would be great.
And also that's something youcould find local to you.
I could probably find one herein Philly, and you would stand
out a lot more because Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that idea.

SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
You're it, right?
Yeah.
You'd be surprised, man.
LA is a lonely place.
It's a lonely, lonely city.
Like people think that you havewhat?
We have like 13 million or Idon't know, tons of people here.
And huge.
Huge, but we're so it's solonely here.
Like you cannot find otherveterans as easy as you think

(11:59):
because it just we're we're justfar apart.
And we're just uh veterans don'trealize how how rare we really
are.
I mean, we're less than sixpercent.
Um, I'm the only one in myentire family that's a veteran.
I mean, on both sides of thehouse.
So um, yeah, it's it's a it's alonely place.

(12:22):
Even when you live in a bigcity, it it gets lonely.

SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
So Yeah, and it and it's becoming more rare.
You know, there's less and lessuh people needed for service.
So it's it's just gonna go down.
And I think that's what peopledon't realize about our
generation.
It's like you probably graduatedwith so many people, like World
War II, World War or you know,Vietnam when so many other every

(12:46):
other person was drafted, itfelt like you at least graduated
with a few buddies who also wentto war.
You know, we're not doing thatanymore.
It's not as as common.

SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
Right.
And you know, that that's areally important point that I
bring up too.
Like during World War II, duringVietnam, the assimilation was, I
think, easier for for for peopleto some in some degree, because
when you came back from that,there was a good chance that
your neighbor or the mailman orthe guy running the store down

(13:18):
the street, like they all wentthere and they experienced what
you experienced too.
Now, the Vietnam guys, when theycame back, they got a lot of
civilian hate.
And I think that's when westarted seeing that line.
And I think people have becomemore passively insulting towards
veterans.
And there's a lot of flagwaving, especially with
employers out there, where theythey go, Yeah, we're we're

(13:40):
veteran friendly, we're veteranfriendly.

unknown (13:43):
Sure.

SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
And then you go to apply for the job, and the job
is like the lowest position thatthey have.
Uh and when you interview, theywill talk about like how, oh
yeah, my uncle on my wife's sidewas in the military, and he was
a he was like a a captain in theNavy or something like that.

(14:07):
And they'll they'll just saysomething, and he was only in
for four years.
They'll just say something weirdwhere you know that they don't
know anything about themilitary, and this person is now
interviewing you for a position.

SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Yeah, and I wish I could get in like really that
civilian narrative of what theyactually think of veterans when
they, you know, they associateus with some random relative,
but what do you think of youknow, like what else do you
think?

SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Oh my god.
And you know, I because I wentthrough it, and um I twice went
through uh military headhuntersto to find uh new employment,
and I would say a good majorityof the time the recruiters or
the people that were doing theinterviewing had no idea, like

(14:53):
anything, didn't know rankstructure, didn't know the
difference between an E2 versusan O three.
Um and I feel like in America,like everyone should have base
knowledge about the military,very base knowledge.
You don't have to know MOSs andall that stuff, but just know
that you don't have to know howto swim necessarily to be in the
Navy.
Like you don't have to know howto fly a plane to be in the Air

(15:14):
Force.
Like that's I hear that all thetime too.
Like with just I mean adults.

SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
They will tell you that like or not everyone is in
a soldier.
That gets me all the time.

SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Right.
Everyone's like, yeah, and it Ijust hear all these crazy
stories, and I'm like, you gottayou gotta know like Hollywood
and reality are two differentthings.
Um and I the problem is is a lotof these people sitting in these
chairs are the ones that aregonna be hiring you, and they
don't know anything about themilitary.
So Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:42):
Um, I have a question.
Do you think that thenormalization of uniform
personnel on TikTok, Instagramhas bridged that gap, or do you
think it's created furthermistrue narratives?

SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
I think it's I think it's made it worse.
I do because I see a lot ofunprofessionalism.
I see more profession I'm I seemore unprofessionalism today,
and I don't want to sound likegrandpa, but I am gonna sound
like grandpa because I've seenmore unprofessionalism today
than I've saw during my time.

SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
And I can tell you that there's one event that
sticks out in my mind, and Ialmost I almost and I if I could
go back, I would have done it.
I almost recorded them doing it.
And I should have.
I should have put them on FrontStreet because it really
irritated me.
But the rest of my group thatwas with me was like, Oh, why
like why you trippin'?
Why you trippin'?
And I'm like, so I was at a USCgame at the Coliseum about three

(16:44):
years ago.
Okay and there was a r an entirearmy recruiting team walking
around the tailgates, weredrinking in uniform.
Some of them had uniforms on andwere had their stuff untucked
and every it just looked likeshit.
And they were taking shots.
I mean, they look like pure ass.

(17:05):
And I was like standing therelike what an embarrassment to
the uniform and to everythingthat like from Iraq, Afghanistan
to Vietnam, to every conflict,to everybody that's ever served,
what an embarrassment.
And this was a recruiting team.

SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
Yeah.
Mmm, I'm so shocked that theywould do that.

SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
I'm not.
I'm not because it's army.
Army does the I was army, andI'm gonna tell you something
right now.
Army is the worst when it comesto standards.
The worst.
Period.
Because at the end of the day,even during the Iraq War and
Afghanistan war, um you know, westarted taking in felons, we
started loosening a lot of thethe regulations, whereas like

(17:49):
the Marines, they pretty muchmaintained their standards, and
the army just like let thingsloose and let things go.
So over the years, the army haslike fluctuated so much on
standards.
Um, even when I was in the army,um, I was at the captain at the
battalion level, uh, it got to apoint where I was like one of
maybe there was two of us thatwould show up to physical

(18:11):
fitness training in the morning,PT.
Uh, there was probably maybe 10officers that were supposed to
be there, 10 to 12, and two ofus would show up.
The rest of them would go toofficer PT, which was playing
frisbee with each other or justsitting in their cars.
That was officer PT.
So that was one of the reasons Igot out, just to be raw with
you.
Like I was not happy with thestandards that were being set.

(18:34):
Um, I think I thought it lookedpoorly upon uh the rank, and you
know, I I my time in themilitary was not good.
Like I did not but but with thatbeing said, I I look at that and
I look at what not to do, hownot to be.
What about you?
What was your experience like inthe Navy?

SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Yeah, I I I feel like I had like this very
prestige vision, even just ofNavy, you know, I was like, I'm
gonna be around the best of thebest.
Um, so when I went to boot campand I was there was only one guy
who beat me in the mile and ahalf run.
I smoked everyone.
And of course, like I was atrack star, but I was like, wow,

(19:19):
you know, these guys, every Iwas just like so shocked.
I'm like, how did you guys endup here?
Like I was training.
I I mean, okay, I wasn't reallytraining, but I was in great
shape.
I was just like, wow.
And then when you you got to thefleet and you saw your
leadership, and you're just likeyou know, it's what year was
that?

SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
What year?
What year?

SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
This was 2013.

SPEAKER_02 (19:43):
Okay.
And you when you say track star,you're from Wisconsin, right?

SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
When you say track star, are we talking like state?

SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
Yeah, I went to state two two years in a row.
Um, I'll tell you this, my bestmile time, and I have I have
records to prove this, you couldGoogle this, is five thirty-two.
So like I I could run.
My best quarter mile time wasone oh one.

SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
And in the navy you run what, mile and a half, two
miles?

SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
A mile and a half, yes.

SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
What was your time in that?

SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
My best mile and a half, okay.
Because like I I just, you know,I didn't feel like anyone was
taking it seriously.
So of course I'm a juniorsailor, I'm impressionable.
I didn't take it you seriouslyeither, you know, and I and
after I had some likeincidences, I was drinking a
lot.
So I just didn't take my PTseriously until deployment, and

(20:39):
that's when I had my best time.
I could not tell you what itwas.

SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
Yeah.
Why, if you were a track star,why wasn't college in your
cards?

SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
It was.
I really thought about going torun for college, but honestly,
track I put so much pressure onmyself um with training, and I
really stressed myself out.
So and I wasn't ready.
I partied a lot in high school,but track season I would not
mess around.
And so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
Was it your grades?

SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
My grades weren't that great either.
No.

SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
Yeah.
Same here.
I was terrible, man.
I was to 2.5.
I think I had maybe a 2.5 GPAwhen I I was in the middle of my
class.
Um, I was told by my counselor,my junior year, when I wanted to
take college prep courses inhigh school or whatever.
She's like, those classes arereserved for the kids that are

(21:36):
gonna go to college.
And I was like, I want to go tocollege.
Like, what that was but that wasa wake-up call for me.
I was like, obviously, shethinks I'm not college material.

SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
Guidance counselor, Miss Susan Smith.
Shout out to you for motivatingme.
I now have three degrees.

SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Um he's a listener.

SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
Yeah, right.
Um yeah, so when you joined theNavy, um, you took on an MOS as
an aeriographer's mate.
Um, how did that shape yourcareer early on?

SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Yeah, so I didn't want to join as that.
I wanted to be an intelligencespecialist because you know, I
thought that would be reallycool.
Um and then I I got a drinkingticket.
I got in trouble.
So I before I even left.
And so they bumped me down toaerographer's mate, which is
still an awesome job uh doingweather.
But instead of six years, I onlyhad to do four.

(22:30):
Um and yeah, I was like okayabout it.
You know, I just I kind of I wasjust grateful that I had that
because um I thought I wasn'tgonna be able to join after
that.

SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
So you got in trouble?

SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
When you were in high school before you signed
up?

SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Yeah, this summer.
I was already graduated in thesummer before I was leaving.
I got um yeah, got a drinkingticket, um, minor in possession.

SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
Wow.
Well, I love how you're honestand raw about that.
I've been in I've been in I'venot without flaws either.
People always think thatperfection is the way to go.
And you don't have to beperfect.
You just have to be gritty, youhave to be willing to get get
up, brush yourself off, keepgoing, resilient.

(23:18):
That's what that's what reallymatters.
It's not I mean, I think peopleput too much stress on
themselves having being aperfectionist about life and
making good decisions all thetime.
And once you screw up, and I Itold someone recently who got a
DUI, um, a friend of mine, umshe was just completely blasted,

(23:39):
upset, whatever.
I said, Look, this is not yourlast chapter, this chapter
doesn't define you, this chapteris where you pick yourself up,
and the next chapter is whereyou show your resiliency.
So don't get down on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
Yeah, as long as you make those mistakes a pivot
point, you can make them great.
Um you can redeem not redeemyourself, but you're gonna
continue your story.
Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
And now when you went into the Navy, did you
clean things up or did youcontinue the immaturity and
growing up?

SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
Yeah, you know, you I thought that would be like my
pivot point.
I was like, okay, I'm donedrinking, done with everything.
But I was just surrounded by,you know, not good kids.
I mean, I was not a good kidmyself, so it was hard when I I
went to boot camp and I I goteverything together.
Um I was like really lookingforward to it.

(24:40):
I wanted to be in a leadershiprole and everything.
And then um I got sexuallyharassed in A school and I was
just so self-conscious aboutmyself.
Um we shared barracks withMarines, and so like the Marines
were caught texting about me,and it was shared with me, and I

(25:00):
didn't know who it was, so likeit was just like everyone's the
enemy talking about my body inlike a very degrading way.
And it it was just like I, yeah,I just got a really bad anxiety
and I started drinking and justwanting to have friends.

SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
Wow.
And at what point did youbecause you could have easily
gone down that road of justcontinuing doing the drinking
and the negative stuff, but atwhat point, like what what made
you wake up and realize and andsay, like, look, I gotta I gotta
figure this out?

SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
I don't think I figured that out in the Navy.
I don't think I figured it outuntil I got pregnant and I
couldn't drink, really.
That was like, you know, I it'ssomething that I always
struggled with.
Um and I still kind of strugglewith it too.

SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah.
I'm not a big drinker myself.
I mean, every now and then I goto the football games and stuff,
you know, have a few beers andthings like that.
But the one thing that I reallylike about your story is that
you're you're aware.
You're very aware of yourselfand you're raw and you're honest
about it.
And I I when we drive here in LAand I see like someone on the

(26:08):
streets, you know, on drugs orwhatever, I always tell my my
kids, I always say, look, thatperson right there, they didn't
plan to be there.
That happened because they werenot paying attention, they were
not moderate, they were notself-aware.
They may have gone through a badtime in their life, but instead

(26:30):
of getting the help they need,they chose uh not to be aware of
where they were.
And I think that's a in myopinion, that's a lot of
people's issues is beingself-aware and with the
willingness to take the steps tobe accountable for for your
actions, right?

SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard to look in the mirrorand realize like, hey, I'm the
problem.
You know, I th I think it'sreally easy to blame situations.
Um but ultimately, you know,it's I know it's good for me
now, and I know it's not goodfor me.
And I know what is momentarypleasure and what is um the type

(27:12):
of life I want to live.

SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
Right.
And it I just like witheverything else, the one thing
that our world has lost, in myopinion, is moderate.
Being moderate, whether it'spolitics, whether it's food,
whether it's exercise, whetherit's video games, like we have
lost our sense of gauging whereis the middle?
Like, how do we stay here?
And I I tell people that all thetime.

SPEAKER_00 (27:36):
Um Yeah, because you can't monetize moderate.

SPEAKER_02 (27:40):
Yeah.
You're right.
I like wow.

SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
That is That's why that's not moderate's not gonna
be on the news.
Moderate's not gonna be on yourTikTok page.
It's all the extremes.

SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Moderate is not sexy.

SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (27:55):
Hmm.
That's my problem.
I need to figure out how to notbe moderate, be extreme, I
guess, huh?
No, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
Yeah, there you go.
How to make moderate appealingbecause I think that's the life
most of us want to live.
You know, we want to have, youknow, we don't want to have
extreme wealth, but we don'twant to have extreme poverty.
We want to just have moderate,you know, we just want to be
able to live and enjoyourselves.

SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
I think that's huge.
That's huge.
Yeah, we need to figure out howto make moderate sexy.

SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
There you go.
That's your campaign slogan.

SPEAKER_02 (28:29):
We're making moderate sexy over here.
So me wearing my my uh Kohl'skhaki shorts and my branded
shirt here, uh, you know, withno fancy jewelry on.
Um that's cool.
That how do we make that cool,Jenna?
We need to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Well, okay, here's my theory.
With AI taking over everythingand everything looking too
perfect, I think we're gonnahave to really lean in on flaws
because it's human and we'regonna be so used to seeing
generated images and that youknow, flaws are actually going
to be a a point of connectionwith people.

SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
That's true.
Um, at least that's what I'mhoping for because I am social
media is just such bullshit.
Like over the years, uh going tothe conferences and when I say
that, what I mean is going goingto the conferences, um, meeting
people in real life, meetingwhat they're really about, and

(29:29):
then also too, like even thecivilian conferences that I've
been to.
It's all about the Rolex and thecool car and look at my big
muscles, and I'm so cool.
Like I am I am so far from thatbecause I do Brazilian jujitsu.
So I'm not like weightlifting.
I'm not like trying to lookphysically impressive.

(29:50):
Um, my watch, my dad gave itback to me because I gave it to
him as a Christmas gift becausehe didn't like it.
So I've been wearing it for 20years now.
Um like I'm just a very Fuckingnormal dude.
Like I'm just and I'm notwilling to go that way.
And I can tell that you are veryhumbled and very grounded as

(30:10):
well.
And that's why I love talking toyou and people like you and
Michelle.
Um because you're you're herefor the right reasons.
And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:19):
So do you feel like pressure from society?
Maybe it's different for guys oror I don't know, especially
maybe guys in the military likeare officers really.
I feel like that's a wholedifferent world.

SPEAKER_02 (30:30):
No, because I could fucking I could fucking beat
most of them in jujitsu, so itdoesn't.
I mean, at the end of the day,like I don't care how tough you
think you look on social media.

unknown (30:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
And I hope maybe and maybe this will get cut out and
put on my stuff.
Because I'll I'll say it rightnow, like I've met people in
real life and um I've stood inthe same room as some of these
fucking bad dudes and you knowcool social media influencers,
and I'm like, really?
Really?
Because I don't have a fancycar.
I've drive a Honda, like,because I don't have a cool

(31:01):
watch?
No.
Like I don't feel I don't feelum pressure.
But I want to ask you the samequestion.
Because you have a lot of womenon your side of content creation
that are a little morerevealing.
Do you feel pressure?

SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
I think I have I definitely have at points.
I'm like, you know, oh that'sthat's what gets the attention,
you know.
But I kind of stay grounded inthe fact that I don't want to be
known for that.
You know, if I'm gonna be knownfor anything, I wanna be someone
who who keeps it real, honest,and and someone who's learning

(31:44):
and and trying their best.
But yeah, I I I like how yourgrounding is actually like I
could beat the shit out of them.
You know, like there's alwayssome some thought that comes to
our minds, like when when you'represented with someone that's a
little like not threatening, butlike, oh, I'm kind of
intimidated by this person.
And then what the thought that Iguess that may might come to my

(32:07):
mind is like I'm funnier thanthem, or you know, like I love
myself more.
That's kind of like my likeinner thing when I'm I'm feeling
intimidated and I want to makemyself feel better.

SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
I guess because I'm I'm I'm about that life.
Like I'm about like I'll fight.
Like I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 (32:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
Like I'm just saying, like I'm about that
life.
I can be, but I'm very humble atthe same time.
Like you've met me in person.
I'm not trying to be like a apeacock, you know, and have my
feathers behind me and showingit to the world.
Like I don't care about thatstuff.
But it's interesting becausesocial media, if you don't do
that, then you don't get theclicks, you don't get the

(32:48):
attention.
And right?

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Right.
But like at the end of the day,it's still cringy.
It's still cringy to be likeopening your podcast, like doing
curls, dumbbell curls orsomething.
It it's still like cringy to meto if I ever get that way, you
call me out on it, please.
I'll encourage you.
Yeah, just I'll be like, yes,we've been waiting for this.

SPEAKER_02 (33:12):
Yes, finally, finally, he sold out.
I mean, we can thank we canthank the idea that any press is
good press, right?
So it started with like maybethe Kim Kardashian sex tapes,
and we thought, oh my god, hercareer's over with, but now
she's like a billionaire, right?
And then so since then there'sbeen a lot of people like that
have taken that same templateand just done outrageous stuff

(33:36):
to like get whatever, right?
And um I love talking, I lovetalking to you because at the
end of the day, like I I feelbetter, I feel more energized.
Like I'm gonna get up after thisand start moving stuff around
and start because this thiswhole area that I work in, just
this part looks good, but therest is just completely blasted.

SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
I was gonna say I really like your background.

SPEAKER_02 (33:59):
Oh, it's being held together by scotch tape, so
don't be too impressed by that.

SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
Hey, I mean, I just got this blank, nice burnt
orange wall.

SPEAKER_02 (34:07):
Um So Jenna, I I could I could talk to you for
forever and go down these rabbitholes because I have I think I
have ADD.
Um, but I want to get into likewhat you've been doing recently
with the the VFW.
Um and can you talk to us alittle bit but a little bit
about that and understand you'vegot a sponsorship with them as

(34:27):
well?

SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Yeah, I think the last place people thought the
millennial veteran would be isthe VFW.
But I'm there, I'm showing upweekly.
Um I'm going to their meetings,I'm their newest member.
I also dragged my husband tobecome a member because he
really needs to socialize withsomeone else besides his family.
Um but it's it's been pleasantlysurprising.

(34:52):
We just did a trunk retreat onSaturday there, and I got to
actually meet more of thefamilies.
And I was just really impressedwith uh one lady.
She came up to me, her husbandis National Guard, and she's
like the VFW has been such asupport for me while my
husband's been deployed.
And I was like, I love to hearthat, and and and just go around

(35:14):
and and talk to more people andwho have younger kids because
you know it's rare to findveterans.
It's also rare to find veteransthat have kids, you know, in
school still.
So it was just cool to connectwith other people like that and
and know that they're a part ofthe VFW.
Now I'm in a smaller town andit's almost like more of a
default thing to join the VFW tofind that sense of community.

(35:38):
But I would I would give it atry.
I, you know, I I walked in andit it was a bar, but there's
there's more behind the bar, Ifound out so what are some of
the myths about the VFW?

SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
Because it's VFW stands for Veterans of Foreign
War, and then you also have theAmerican Legion.
So what's the difference betweenthe two?

SPEAKER_00 (36:01):
Right.
So the difference between thetwo is you're probably either
gonna have one or the other inyour small town, or you're gonna
have both.
No, I'm just kidding.
Um so membership-wise, I wasn'tsure if I was going to qualify
because I've never, you know,I've done a deployment on a
ship, but I wasn't sure if thatcounted as foreign service.

(36:22):
And I had um my sea serviceribbons, so my I think it's I
don't know, one of them on myDD214, and they're like, yep,
this is good.
So I was really shocked that Iwas able to be a member.
Um, also, if I wasn't to be amember, I would have qualified
as a part of the auxiliary,which is someone who's either

(36:42):
like son, you can be their son,daughter, you can be their
parent, you could be theirsibling.
Um the auxiliary really extendsto the family member.

SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Okay.
There's a few um AmericanLegions around where I live at.
I don't know of any VFWs aroundwhere I live.
There's a few here, here andthere in LA, but the closest
one's American Legion.

SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Have you been to other posts before or just the
one that you're in?

SPEAKER_00 (37:12):
I've just been to the one I've been in, um,
besides one back in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 (37:17):
Okay.
Um and did the VFW reach out toyou to get sponsored?

SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Yes.
So they sent me an email.
Um, and I was like, yeah, youknow, I've been meaning to go
down to the VFW and join.
And so I'd love to film thatexperience and share that with
with other younger veterans andencourage them.

SPEAKER_02 (37:37):
And it's because of your outreach, right?

SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
Yes.
I think they're doing a kind ofnationwide campaign.
I think there's a few othercreators that were involved also
doing this push of just showinghow you're still serving.

SPEAKER_02 (37:50):
So, in my opinion, the VFW, American Legion both
are they're a little dated.

SPEAKER_01 (37:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Um, are they looking to reshape who they're serving
and how they're serving in amore positive manner?
Because I've been to both VFWand American Legions, and from
post to post, uh it depends onwho's running that post, on
whether or not it's actuallyveteran-friendly, or they're
using it as their own personalclubhouse.

(38:18):
Um so I've seen that before,which is really irritating to
me.
Um, and they usually are theguys that have had control for
like years and years and years.
Is VFW trying to make a push nowto do things that are a little
more appealing, like theexercising, the um the race
events and things like that forto appeal?

SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Yeah, I I think they're trying to do more family
friendly.
Um, I can't really speak for Ithink it really varies from post
to post, from different town totown on what they're doing.
But I could see um just talkingto some of the members that a
lot of them want them to relaxthe standards on who can join

(39:02):
the BFW because they are reallyhurting for younger members.
And um, you know, there's a lotof people that are there that
aren't even members because theydon't qualify.
You know, they served inpeacetime or some some older
guys that served in like the the80s or um mid-70s era.

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
That's really surprising to me because we just
came out of a like 20-year warsin two fronts, Afghanistan and
Iraq.
So I don't know.
I mean, uh you have a market outthere, it's just how do you
appeal to that market?
And I think one of the thingsthat a few years ago I thought
about trying to take over mylocal American Legion just

(39:43):
because I wanted to make a gym.
Like I wanted to put a gym inthere.
Because a lot of us youngerfolks need to work out.
Like instead there's a giganticbar in there.
Um and I feel like you cut partof that out at least and then
put a gym in there and just makeit free to VFW members, that
would be a huge draw for people,you know, to go work out.

SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
Yeah, or even offer like some exercise classes, some
yoga classes, or you know,different things that you could
even like a sound bath.
I don't know, maybe this is morefor the women.
But I would totally show up forthat.
And and it was nice.
I think we joined at a good timebecause we got a tour and you
know, they just gutted the wholebasement and took out a bunch of

(40:30):
stuff and they're trying to redothings.
They redid their their kitchen,and you know, they're they're
open to new ideas, which isexciting.
But again, I can't speak forevery post because I I feel like
I've I'm pretty lucky with thisone and and our commander is
pretty young, so it's like Well,you're I mean, it's a start in
the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 (40:49):
I'm glad that they're reaching out to
influencers like yourself, andit should have been done years
ago in reality, because we'rehow many years out from Iraq and
Afghanistan?
We're over 20 years now.
Like why'd it take so long?
Um You as a sponsor though,you're just basically helping
market, helping influencingpeople to get back into the VFW,

(41:12):
right?

SPEAKER_00 (41:13):
Yes, yeah.
So I'm making um content, youknow, I have different uh items
I want to hit, like talk aboutthe auxiliary.
I also talked about how my greatgrandma was the president of the
VFW for a long, long time.
Like she was known, and thatgave her support when her
husband came back injured fromWorld War II and you know later

(41:37):
died really early.
So it was like her way of umcommunity.

SPEAKER_02 (41:43):
Wow.
That's wow, you even have familyties to the VFW.
It's like it was meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Yes, yeah, it really was.
I was really happy to find thatpicture of my great grandma in
um in my aunt's photo album.

SPEAKER_02 (41:57):
That's so cool.
I love how you're so enthusedabout the community and all that
is being in the military andbeing a veteran.
Um, what are some of thepositives that you've seen so
far uh when veterans engagephysically, not just online in
in the community spaces like theBFW?
Like earlier you mentionedmeeting the family of the

(42:18):
National Guard member.
What other positives have youseen?

SPEAKER_00 (42:22):
Oh, so many, especially when I do my women
veterans.
You know, some of these likeI've ran into women who have
retired, they've servedhonorably for 20 years and don't
have any help from the VA.
You know, they they didn't evenget their DD214 because they
just I I don't know, they justwere told no.

(42:45):
Yeah, they were well, um no,they served 20 years.
They got out in their 40s.
Yes, I've I've known two womenand they went to go get help,
and that first person told themno, and they just decided, okay,
that must be it.

SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
And never came back until, you know, they they found
one of my events um and they seethat it's women only, and
they're like, okay, maybe it'llbe more comfortable.
And it's it's just awesome tosee people open up and and talk
about things that they wouldn'tnormally feel comfortable

(43:20):
talking about.

SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
That's amazing.
That 20 years, after 20 years,you don't even you don't even
walk away with the D214, but Ibelieve it it I could see that
totally happening becausesometimes when people separate,
it's not under good terms,either in their personal life or
professional life, whatever thecase is, and they just want to
get out and move on with theirlives.
I was that way.

(43:42):
I was like just I'd walkedaround with my outprocessing
paperwork and it's like, justsign this, sign this, sign this,
taps, sign this.
And they're like, But you didn'ttake any tap.
I was like, I don't care, justsign it.
I'm a captain, just sign it.
I want to get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Yep, yeah.
I want anyone who's listening tothis to go to my Instagram page
or my TikTok, and I just posteda video last week that says how
many, how long did it take youbefore you went to the VA?
And you're gonna be shocked atsome of these people saying
never, some people saying um 20years, some people saying 30.
It wasn't until I lost myhearing, it wasn't until this

(44:15):
happened, and then I realizedthat I I could apply for
disability.
Like the stories on there arejust like shocking to me.
They're actually heartbreakingbecause I'm like, you see so
many people who suffered insilence, or they were afraid of
the VA, or they got turned downand decided that it wasn't
something they had access to.
It makes me so mad.

SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Oh man, I tell you what, because it makes me mad
too, because the story about theum imposter veteran that is
making all these like claims,like the the person that's full
of crap basically.
That story gets heard more thanthe story of like my dad, who it

(44:57):
took him 30 years after doing 20years in the army.
Um it took him 30 years to putin for any service connection at
all.
Like he was at zero percent for30 years.
You don't hear about him, butyou hear about the guy who did
like three years, you know, inthe army or whatever, sitting
behind a desk, um, getting 100%.

(45:18):
Like you hear all these otherstories of like fraud, but then
you won't hear about theveterans that just, like you
said, suffer in silence.

SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Yes.
Yeah, I don't think peoplerealize how many veteran
benefits go unused, how manypeople do not use their GI Bill,
how many people are 0%connected.

SPEAKER_02 (45:38):
It's it's let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about how manyveterans I knew prior to the
9-11 GI Bill that would lettheir GI bill lapse after what
was it, 10 years or whatever.
Lots, lots.
And it's just the same thingwith the disability stuff.
Like people do their time andthey don't most people don't

(46:00):
expect a handout.
Most people don't expect to likeget the benefits of like getting
their ticket punched.

SPEAKER_00 (46:06):
They didn't even know that was a thing joining.
I had no clue until like rightbefore I got out.
Uh, people were talking aboutit.
I was like, oh, I don't haveanything.
I didn't claim anything.
I didn't go until five yearslater and filed my claim.
So I also was just like, what'sthe point?
You know, I know I'm fine.

SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
Yeah.
Honestly, before I even soughttherapy through VA, I was like
at the end of my rope.
I was getting ready to go to anIndian reservation and just like
get away from everyone.
Like I just wanted to, I waslike literally at the point
because I was trying to findtherapy myself.
So I would go to civiliantherapist.
But the problem is, is civiliantherapist, there's a lot out

(46:45):
there that shouldn't be doingthat job.
There's a lot out there thatshould not be doing that job.
And I could tell you horrorstories about that.
That was like I literally haveI've literally walked into a
therapist's office, lookedaround and how filthy it was and
disgusting it was.
And I like one of them I walkedinto, I looked at the couch and
it looked like it was it lookedlike a couch that belonged on

(47:07):
the streets or in the alley.
It was just fucking garbage.
I was like, You want me to siton this?
He's like, Yeah, go ahead andsit down.
And then uh he proceeded to tellme about how he has this
condition where he can remembereverything in his life the to
the finest details, and theentire time he's he's like, tell
me all this stuff.
I was like, What's this have todo with me?

(47:27):
And I'm looking around hisoffice, I'm like, this place
looks like trash.
So I got up and I was like, I'mnot going to I'm not going to
talk to you.
Like, your office looks likeshit.
Your couch is disgusting.
I was like, you don't make anysense, and I walked out.

unknown (47:41):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (47:42):
And he goes, Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
And I felt bad, but I was so infe I was so frustrated, man,
because this was like the thirdperson that I the the last draw
was m I finally just was readyto say, you know, I just need to
find isolation.
I went to the I went to the VA.

SPEAKER_00 (48:01):
Yeah.
Yeah, it seems like the lastresort.
I mean, I just got my husbandenrolled in the VA and he's been
out since 2019.
I'm like, come on, you know, getthe help.

SPEAKER_02 (48:14):
I think it's important for people to
understand that you can't justgo on Yelp and find a therapist.
You have to find someone thatunderstands your community.
Um and the veteran community,it's important that your
therapist be conditioned tolistening to the stories of
what's happening.
Because I can tell you what, Ican go to my Thanksgiving dinner

(48:36):
table for my family thisNovember, and nobody at that
table is going to understandwhat the hell I'm talking about.
But it's nice to be able to sitin front of someone that is
familiar with the stories, canspeak the language, can speak
the culture, understands thedefinitions, understands the
acronyms.
Um it's a lot easier to talk tosomeone like that.

SPEAKER_00 (48:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, they know what to lookfor, they know what to ask you,
they're trained in it, and theycan almost guess what you're not
saying or kind of like pull onthreads that you didn't even
know are there.

SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Perspectives.
Perspectives is huge, right?

SPEAKER_00 (49:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I encourage everyone and also,you know, in our in our groups
where we're talking, you know,therapy gets brought up a lot.
And we recommend who was good,who was not.
You know, we we go through theroster list at the VA and say,
okay, they're good, they'reawesome, they're not, you know,
try your best with this one.

SPEAKER_02 (49:33):
It's like it sounds like you got a really good post
over there because that that'sreally that's really key.
That's really important.

SPEAKER_00 (49:39):
Yes, and it makes you feel comfortable.
And also, you know, sometimeswhen we have a better bad
interaction in medical, we thinkit's our fault, but sometimes it
really is the provider, or youknow, there's there's so many
more.
Like I I had so many, so muchissues with doctors that I
didn't want to go anymore.
But it's helpful to have others'opinions.

SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
I feel you on that.
Now, with women veterans, um, Ithink they often feel invisible
in the larger veteran community.
What conversations have you beenhaving with the women veterans
that more people need to hear orunderstand?

SPEAKER_00 (50:17):
A lot of them it is feeling invisible, uh feeling
uncomfortable at the VA, um, andunderstanding, you know, there's
there's tools for that, there'shelp for that.
You can get escorted from yourcar to your appointment if you
feel, you know, umuncomfortable.
So just honestly, like that'sall the ladies talk about all

(50:39):
day is just resources, or youknow, you could do this or you
could do this.
Um, and and wanting to getdifferent forms of healing.
And I think we talk aboutmenopause every single time
because that's a big thing forwomen veterans.
Uh so with my older, my olderladies, they're really teaching

(51:01):
me about that stage of life.

SPEAKER_02 (51:03):
I'd say wiser.
Don't don't say older, wiser.

SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Wiser.
My yes, they are.
They I call them my mentors, myolder sisters, because they
they're just awesome.
And um, yeah, I think it'simportant to understand that
being around other womenveterans is there's nothing like
it.
You know, you're gonna find yourtribe.

SPEAKER_02 (51:28):
And with that, with that being said, um, what are
some of the ways that thecommunity could show up better
for women veterans in just dailylife, in institutions, and
support networks?
You got any shout-outs?

SPEAKER_00 (51:40):
Yeah, so I'm also a part of the DAV, and they do we
have a women veterans committeethat we just put up.
Uh Jennifer, she's our ourleader of that.
And we welcome men at all ourmeetings.
We encourage men to comebecause, you know, we can't do
it alone.
We don't exist in our ownvacuum.

(52:01):
You know, we're we're a part ofthe community at large.
And if we want more womenveterans and younger veterans to
show up, we need to know how,you know, how they operate and
how to treat them and whatnot,and what makes them comfortable,
what makes them uncomfortable.
Because I'm telling you, everysingle time I go to a meeting
and I'm wearing a veteran shirt,I will get asked, are you the

(52:24):
veteran or did you borrow thatfrom someone?
And I'm like, I'm herevolunteering at the DAB just
like you are.
Why would I wear this shirt forno reason?
Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:34):
So did you borrow it for the yeah, I found it in the
Lost and Found.

SPEAKER_00 (52:37):
Exactly.
Yeah, I should say that.

SPEAKER_02 (52:41):
Um now, your new occupation.
You mentioned earlier that youhad a lot of content out there
about your your federal job.
You've currently recently, Ishould say, you recently stepped
into a new chapterprofessionally.
What does your new role looklike and and what drew you to
it?

SPEAKER_00 (53:01):
Yes, I'm gonna find out next week.
And honestly, I was I was readyfor any role.
You know, I've been applying tojobs since last March and have
heard crickets, and the only wayI got this job was through
networking in the veterancommunity in my area, showing up
to job fairs, showing up todifferent meetings, and I got in

(53:22):
front of this nonprofit calledSoldier On.
I ran into them at four or fivedifferent times at different
events, and every time I remindthem, hey, I'm looking for a
job, let me know when anything'sopen.
And finally um I sent my resumeand they said, Hey, here's your
date for an interview.
And I got the job.
So I was really excited, and Iam going to be a housing

(53:43):
navigator for veterans who areexperiencing homelessness.
I'm gonna be working withlandlords and um, you know, kind
of educating them on the programof, you know, these veterans are
not just gonna get their rentpaid for, they're also a part of
a program.
You know, they have someoneelse, a case manager, they're

(54:05):
getting support in other ways.
So this isn't just a handout,they're part of a program.
You're going to have your rentpaid on time.
Um, so just kind of the more theeducated they are on the
program, the more likely theyare to accept a veteran as a
tenant.

SPEAKER_02 (54:21):
Well, this work may end up uh completely changing
how you view perspectively likejust veteran military service
and leadership altogether, itsounds like, because you're
still going to be working withinthe community.

SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Yes, yeah.
And I I don't have muchexperience on the homeless
veteran side, and that's youknow, that's an issue that gets
a lot of attention, and there'sa lot of federal funding out
there right now, which is whythis is one of this is the only
nonprofit in South Jersey thatactually um moves those funds,
gets them to veterans, because alot of rural places don't have

(54:57):
that.
So I'm I'm really excited to beuh a part of setting it up down
here.

SPEAKER_02 (55:02):
Wow, you're absolutely amazing.
You've you're would would youconsider the workbook you did?
Are you technically you're anauthor, right?

SPEAKER_00 (55:09):
Yeah, I guess I am.

SPEAKER_02 (55:11):
I mean, I I actually bought it and um I was telling
someone else about it.
I hadn't started filling it out,but I was telling someone else
about it.
They're like, that's a reallycool idea.
And um they needed it more thanI did.
They were they were recoveringand everything.
So I I gave it to them um as agift.
And um overall, uh how did youhow did you come up with how did

(55:36):
you come up with that idea?
Like how how did you come upwith the creativity, the
journaling, the reflection, allthat stuff that you put into
that book?

SPEAKER_00 (55:44):
It was, you know, I think we a lot of times people
write books that they needthemselves.
And I love journaling.
It's something that's beenconsistent.
I recently found a journal fromwhen I was 10 years old, and you
know, just talking every day.
It's so cool to go back and lookat that and be like, wow, that
was my life then.
Um anyhow, so I wanted to sharethe tool of journaling and how

(56:07):
it's it's helped me find myself,ground myself throughout life
with veterans and uh and throughpodcasting.
I'm like, I have these greatconversations, and I'm asked
questions, I'm asking questionsthat I would never come up in
any other conversation I'm gonnahave throughout the rest of that
day or week.
And I wanted to be able to havethose intimate conversations

(56:28):
with every veteran.
So that's what it is.
It's a book of questions.
Um, and it's really you're youend up being the author and and
writing, writing your story,your next chapter.

SPEAKER_02 (56:40):
I love the trajectory that it puts people
on because there's so many timesin my life that I have not
journaled and have not writtendown, and I'm starting to
forget.
Like I'm starting to forgetthings until things come up.
And I'm older than I'm olderthan you.
I mean, I'm I'm 45, Jenna.
I'm an old man.

(57:02):
I know, right?
So with that being said, likejournaling is something that I
need to at some point in my lifefigure out.
And this whole podcasting thingthat I do is sort of journaling
in a way.
Um when I'm dead and gone, likehopefully these things will
still exist.
Um and people can and that wasone of my main drags for for
doing this was that I my dad, Iwanted to interview him before

(57:25):
you know, before he's gone, andand I got the opportunity to do
that in three or four episodes.
But um I I love how you'vehelped in that in that manner,
you know, just by creating ingeneral.
And for any veteran out therelistening that feels lost, or
maybe it's a military spouse oranyone connected to the military
that feels lost, disconnected,or between like versions of

(57:48):
themselves, what do you think isthe first step?

SPEAKER_00 (57:51):
Oh, I would say get excited.
I know it seems like a reallyhard time, and I I've just gone
through this with losing my job,and I I lost I lost my Yeah, I
went through it so bad.
I went I had to go back totherapy, I was drinking a lot
more.
Um I felt lost and I still I'msomeone who has really healthy

(58:15):
hobbies.
I have a community and I stilllike I went through it.
Um just knowing it's temporaryis something that helped me a
lot and reminding myself becauseuh every, you know uh what is it

(58:35):
called?
Every rejection I got from jobswas just like a stab or like a
like reminder, like, hey, you'renot good enough.
You it does that doesn't defineyou.
Write down what you value aboutyourself, and it probably has
nothing to do with your job inthe end.
You know, that's not what'sgonna be on your gravestone.

(58:56):
It's gonna be mother, wife,friend, community member,
whatever.
Um, and and try to be morepresent um instead of doom
scrolling.
That was another thing.
Um but yeah, it and and it endedup being exciting.
That's why I said get excitedbecause you're going, you're
gonna open yourself up tosomething that you're meant to

(59:18):
be.
And I know I was not meant to bea federal employee for the next
20 years, and I'm really excitedabout my new job.

SPEAKER_02 (59:26):
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
What's your vision for themillennial veteran community in
the next two to five years?

SPEAKER_00 (59:33):
Oh, they just took away our community chats on
Facebook, so I'm upset aboutthat.
Yeah, because that that was somuch fun just checking in with
people on the different.

SPEAKER_02 (59:43):
Why did they do that?

SPEAKER_00 (59:44):
October 7th, October 8th.

SPEAKER_02 (59:48):
But why though?
I mean, why did they do that?

SPEAKER_00 (59:50):
To get people more on the app scrolling instead of,
you know, you can't put ads in acr in a chat, I'm guessing.
And that's where people werespending a lot of time.
So we made a discussion.
Discord with all the samechannels, but we only have 170
people.
I mean, we have almost 5,000 inthe Facebook group.
So it's it's pretty dead overthere right now, but we're we're
trying to invigorate it.

(01:00:11):
Um so I I just picture that.
I'd love to do an in-personevent.
I've been saying that for years,but I I just I'd love to to
reach more veterans who don'tfeel like they don't have a
place anywhere else to show, seeyounger veterans.
Here we are, we're showing up,we're making a difference, we're
doing great things with ourbenefits and giving back to the

(01:00:33):
community.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:34):
Yeah.
I love it.
Jenna, I've had you for about anhour now, and I don't want to
keep you on here um any longer.
I know you got stuff going on uhthere on your end on the East
Coast.
Um, but was there anything thatI didn't mention in this
interview that you'd like tobring up right now?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:48):
I think we hit it all and and and even more.
So it's been a pleasure chattingwith you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:53):
It was a great conversation for sure.
I you're the kind of person Iliterally could hang out with
and just talk to for hours.
Um and I've met so many otherslike yourself.
I'm looking forward to meetingmore people uh in this space and
outside this space.
Um I think this is in some sensetherapeutic for me as well.
I know today's session with youhas been therapeutic.

(01:01:13):
You've inspired me uh to keepgoing.
And um I just want to say thankyou for being a friend over the
last few years.
And hey, I I think we met duringthe pandemic virtually.
We met in person.
Um and uh I can honestly saythat you're the kind of you're
the kind of person that Idefinitely want to be a part of

(01:01:35):
their circle.
So um an absolute honor.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:40):
Thank you.
I really, really appreciatethat.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:43):
Anyone out there who hasn't met Jenny yet, make sure
you follow her on TikTok,Instagram, where else are you?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:51):
Our Facebook group.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:52):
Facebook group, and then you said Discord, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:55):
And Discord, yep.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:57):
Okay.
What about YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:59):
I have a YouTube.
I do the shorts, but uh YouTubetalk about uh garbage content.
It's it's a mess over there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:09):
Hey, they're all racing for the trashy garbage
content for the clicks, right?
What did you say earlier?
You said moderate is not trendy,or what'd you say?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:18):
Yeah, you can't monetize moderate.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:20):
You can't monetize moderate.
Someone told you that.
That's really cool.
That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:25):
Maybe, maybe subliminally, I remember it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:28):
Yeah.
Well, Jenna, thank you forstepping into this space with
honesty and purpose.
Your voice is shifting thelandscape for young veterans,
women veterans, and anyonenavigating the transition into
civilian identity.
Um, formation nation, take whatyou heard today.
Uh, make sure you check on yourpeople as well.
Uh, community is not luxury,it's survival.

(01:02:50):
So until next time, as always, Iwant you to stay tuned, stay
focused, and stay motivated.
Warriors, fall out.