December 13, 2024 • 14 mins
In this episode, we explore the importance of prenatal lactation preparation and how it empowers expectant parents to navigate breastfeeding with confidence. Learn about the benefits of early education, strategies for overcoming common challenges, and tips to optimize breastfeeding success from the very start. Whether you're a first-time parent or looking for ways to improve your breastfeeding journey, this episode provides practical advice and expert insights.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Why prenatal lactation education matters
- Common breastfeeding myths and how to address them
- Tips for preparing mentally and physically during pregnancy
- How lactation prep can boost confidence postpartum
Visit our website, here: https://birthlearning.com/
Follow us on Facebook at Birth Learning
Follow us on Instagram at @birthlearning
Show Credits
Host: Angie Rosier
Music: Michael Hicks
Photographer: Toni Walker
Episode Artwork: Nick Greenwood
Producer: Gillian Rosier Frampton
Voiceover: Ryan Parker
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Ordinary Doula Podcast with
Angie Rozier, hosted by BirthLearning, where we help prepare
folks for labor and birth withexpertise coming from 20 years
of experience in a busy doulapractice, helping thousands of
people prepare for labor,providing essential knowledge
and tools for positive andempowering birth experiences.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello, this is Angie with the Ordinary Doula Podcast.
I am so happy to be with youhere today.
I don't know what time of theyear it is when you are
listening to this, but it'sgetting close to Christmas time
when I'm recording it andhopefully you can have a great
holiday season with your friendsor family or just by yourself,
like I think, our own littleprivate holidays are also some
of the best things to celebrateand enjoy what we, what we feel
(01:10):
and celebrate in our heart.
Sometimes it's a hard time ofyear for folks too, so if that's
the case, I hope you feel peaceand connection that you'reation
visits.
So I do in-home visits as anIBCLC with folks at a variety of
(01:32):
times.
Sometimes it's the day they gethome from the hospital after
having a baby.
Sometimes it's a few days after, when they're encountering some
challenges.
Sometimes it's two weeks or twomonths.
I'm meeting with somebodytomorrow and the baby's a couple
months old.
I met with somebody last week.
Baby was born, you know, threeor four months ago.
So it's a variety of times thatwe visit.
(01:55):
But I want to talk aboutspecifically the benefit of
prenatal visiting with an IBCLCand what the value of that might
be.
So there are breastfeedingclasses to take.
I would highly encourage you totake a breastfeeding class, and
this is something I did notused to feel that importantly
about.
I just felt if people had atiny bit of knowledge of the
(02:15):
basics, like a couple sentencesworth in their head, then they
would be fine If their goal wasto breastfeed like all right, we
know you want to breastfeed.
If you know, you know, let'ssay there's not much milk in the
beginning, it's important tolatch the baby early and we'll
see what happens.
That's all you know.
Great, there's so much more toknow than that and as you do
know things before you go intoit, it helps take away some of
(02:39):
that mystery and it helps you bemore realistically and better
prepared for what you face whenthe baby is born.
So the reason I am bringing thistopic up I have seen a couple
of people lately.
One of them, I think the baby,was a couple weeks old and they
were in kind of a dire situationand it took them a while to
reach out for support and Iwished they had reached out a
(03:02):
little bit sooner.
The other situation was similar, but the baby wasn't quite as
old.
It was maybe five, six days old, not a couple of weeks old.
But I could see, as I met withfolks, there was some things
they could have eliminated somechallenges or negated them to
some extent by some prenatalknowledge, by the things that
they prepared themselves with.
(03:23):
I don't know if you're sensingthis too, but there are so many
baby products out there andbreastfeeding products and baby
monitors and there's so manyapps like it feels overwhelming
all the things that you needquote unquote need to get when a
baby's born.
But as I've seen these lastcouple of situations that
(03:45):
prompted this episode, peoplekind of got they purchased less
helpful items, which was kind ofinteresting Along the lines of
pumps.
They got pumps that were notgood for their goals.
They weren't helping them meettheir goals, nor were they a
great pump or a good fit forthem.
They also had in one case theyhad some bottles that are some
(04:07):
of my least favorite bottles onthe market and it was creating
some challenges that thesepeople were facing.
Another one I went and visitedthis this client and the baby
had been drinking pumped breastmilk diligently which was pretty
cool from a bottle, but had nottried to breastfeed very much.
(04:29):
So as we got into a visit.
You know, we tried a latch andwe kind of worked on a latch and
had a position for that and Iasked the mom how feedings had
gone and we were probably fiveminutes into this latch, which
with a baby, a newborn, you knowthese often take 10 to 40
minutes for a feeding and if youdon't know that you wouldn't
know that.
But we were about five minutesin and I said, okay, is this
(04:50):
kind of like it has been?
She goes we've never tried thislong, like they had never tried
up to five minutes to get thebaby on the breast and to stay
on the breast.
So that was like, oh gosh, thatwould have been really neat for
them to know, before this babywas born and as they've been
working with it for a couple ofweeks now, that the feeding is
(05:11):
going to be kind of a long timeand a latch is an instant.
It does take a little bit oftime for some babies to get a
good latch and this baby didmarvelous.
Like this baby latched on andgave a great feed, got a good
amount out of the breast and fora baby that hadn't been
practicing on the breast verymuch, I was incredibly impressed
with what this baby was able todo.
Not all babies will jump backand forth like that very easily,
(05:34):
so the benefits of prenataleducation with a lactation
consultant can be incrediblybeneficial.
They can customize thepreparation to you to what your
goals are.
I love meeting with my clientsahead of time.
It's a good hour and a half totwo hours and we will spend time
talking about what to expect inthe early days, why that first
(05:55):
latch is important in that firsthour and some positions we will
.
I bring a little baby doll andI let them kind of hold it.
As I work in a hospital inlactation, I'll tell you one
thing that's fascinating is thatcross cradle hold is not
intuitive to almost anyone.
Everybody wants to do just aregular cradle hold, which
(06:15):
that's what we see right.
If you have had the privilegeor experience to be able to see
anyone breastfeeding in yourlife, they're probably doing a
cradle hold which is a superadvanced move Like that's in a
mom and a baby who know whatthey're doing.
That baby has some neck control.
That mom can do it one handed,but in the beginning it's two to
four hands.
It seems like to help get ababy latched and stay latched,
(06:36):
so helping them with that andhelping them to know what to
expect.
You know a lot of people like,okay, awesome, my baby latched.
Great, in the first hour.
We're good to go, not realizingthat baby's going to go pretty
sleepy for a while for the nextday and then the next day the
baby's going to be pretty ornery, pretty grumpy, pretty hungry,
wanting to latch what will feellike relentlessly.
So just knowing those thingscan be helpful.
(06:58):
And then product wise, right.
So having someone I will do,even like a, an, assess a nipple
assessment ahead of time andfit flanges for somebody ahead
of time, and those can changeslightly within millimeters
after delivery and at some timeat the breast.
But, um, when people have a, awell-fitting flange, if they're
(07:18):
going to be needing to use apump, that's going to be helpful
.
Um, if sometimes I'll look atnipples, I'm like, oh boy you,
you know, this might be a littlemore challenging.
So people go into it withrealistic expectations.
I always, always, always,there's always hope.
I promise, I promise.
I've seen some really toughsituations turn out beautifully.
A few months ago I was seeingtwo different people.
(07:40):
One everything was goingfabulously Like.
Her anatomy was the breast andthe nipple and the baby's mouth
were perfect for each other,like the breast was um long and
or the nipple was long.
The breast was, the nipple wasvery elastic, very supple, easy,
latch.
Um, and I was working withanother client who had very
(08:00):
short nipples, one flat, veryfirm breasts and the baby's
mouth didn't help us out either.
And as I worked with both ofthese I was feeling pretty
confident about the onesituation and feeling kind of
anxious about the other, hopingthat things could work out,
knowing it would take a lot oftime and dedication from that
mom and baby.
(08:20):
But they could do it, theycould get it to work.
And wouldn't you know it?
It in the course of my timeworking with them they switched
places.
The mom, who I was worriedabout because of Anatomy
challenges, and for both babyand mom, ended up doing
beautifully where the mom andthe baby, who had a perfect
matchup of Anatomy and made itlook really simple in the
beginning, they ended up comingup with some unique challenges
(08:43):
down the road.
So they kind of switched spots.
So there's always always hopethat if something looks or seems
frustrating, we can get past it, we can work through it If
you're willing to learn about itand kind of put in the time and
the dedication to make thatwork.
Sometimes getting breastfeedingto work great does take a
couple weeks or a few weeks.
(09:04):
I've seen up to a couple monthsbefore it gets pretty or more
easy.
So that prenatal education isvery helpful.
I like to look at the bottlespeople have and sometimes like,
oh, how about we switch to adifferent, uh, a different
bottle in this situation?
Or oh, that pump.
Like, what are your goals withpumping?
If they say I'm going to be anexclusive pumper, I'm like then
(09:26):
we got to get a different pumpfor you, because not all pumps
are created equal.
There are companies out therewho will sell the public any old
thing, right, whether it's good, they market better than they
research.
So they're.
You know, depending on what'smarketed to you.
Do a little of your ownresearch.
Get a good pump.
If you're going to be pumping alot, it's great to have a
(09:49):
double electric plug-in pump,not a hands-freefree.
I know hands-free soundsamazing and convenient, but if
you're doing a lot of pumpingthat's not a great pump for you.
Or if we need that to bring themilk in, it's probably not
going to be strong enough to beused multiple times a day to
bring milk in or if we'reexclusively pumping.
Same with bottles get a goodbottle, and what I mean by a
(10:10):
good bottle is a bottle that hasa long, firm nipple and a broad
base.
So there are brands out therethat have very soft nipples.
They try to look like a breast.
It's kind of short and babiescan't quite trust those.
They're kind of flimsy.
They're soft enough that as thebaby applies it's firm, suck to
that and seal.
It can kind of compress thenipple and milk doesn't come out
(10:32):
as well.
I've even seen babies compressthe whole nipple into the bottle
and then they're not evengetting anything out at all.
So do the triangle test, see ifthat nipple and the bottle that
you have purchased can fit intothat little triangle test that
you may have seen online.
I'm trying to think otherthings.
Yeah, a lot of it is theequipment people get.
(10:54):
So check in with your lactationspecialist ahead of time, if
you can, about what your plansare.
And in a perfect world we don't.
In a perfect breastfeedingworld, we don't really want to
touch a pump for three to fourweeks or a bottle, or even a
pacifier, if we can help it,because we want to get the milk
regulated between the mom andthe baby and not have a pump
(11:16):
interrupt that.
We want to get the baby reallygood at the breast before we
introduce the bottle andsometimes even pacifiers I've
seen that kind of knocks thebaby off.
I was just at a clientyesterday.
They have a pretty new babythree, four days old.
The baby's doing pretty well atlatching but with engorgement,
got a little frustrated and sothey gave it a pacifier during
(11:36):
the night and the next fewlatches, they said the baby just
didn't do as well.
So again, in a perfectbreastfeeding world, we avoid
any artificial nipples orpumping for three to four weeks.
And then there's real life.
There's reality and weoftentimes need to use any one
or all of those tools in certainsituations, that we need to
(11:57):
lean on them a little bit morein certain situations.
So an IBCLC can help guide youthrough that.
So make sure you work with oneif you are able to, or go to
those breastfeeding supportgroups.
There's resources online.
Maybe your pediatrician'soffice has a lactation
consultant available.
There are a lot of communityresources.
There's WIC, there's La LecheLeague.
(12:18):
Maybe your family is a greatsource of support and knowledge
for that.
But look around, make sure thatyou have the information you
need and the support and then,as everything in parenting,
you're going to take all thatinformation, that you have the
information you need and thesupport, and then, as everything
in parenting, you're going totake all that information that
you're getting out there thatyou know sometimes contradicts
each other and you're going tocipher through it and use what
(12:38):
you need for you, your situation, your baby and your family.
So hopefully that's a littletidbit on some importance of
preemptively, like taking someinitiation to get some lactation
help before you even have ababy in your arms can be very
helpful.
Lots of things to learn there.
So hopefully that's somethingyou can use, take with you and
(13:01):
it can help your situation orsomebody that you know.
Thank you so much for being withme here today.
I've enjoyed I always enjoytime together.
I love doing this podcast andthe people I meet through it,
the connections that I'm able tomake, and I hope I just hope.
My hope is that thisinformation can help someone
somewhere.
Hopefully you can reach out andmake a great connection with
(13:21):
someone else today.
Go do a kind act of service inthe world Could be simple.
Those simple things go a long,long ways.
Hopefully you have a good oneand we will see you here next
time.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thanks, Thank you for listening to the Ordinary Doula
podcast with Angie Rozier,hosted by Birth Learning.
(13:53):
Episode credits will be in theshow notes Tune in next time as
we continue to explore the manyaspects of giving birth.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Ordinary Doula Podcast with
Angie Rozier, hosted by BirthLearning, where we help prepare
folks for labor and birth withexpertise coming from 20 years
of experience in a busy doulapractice, helping thousands of
people prepare for labor,providing essential knowledge
and tools for positive andempowering birth experiences.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello, this is Angie with the Ordinary Doula Podcast.
I am so happy to be with youhere today.
I don't know what time of theyear it is when you are
listening to this, but it'sgetting close to Christmas time
when I'm recording it andhopefully you can have a great
holiday season with your friendsor family or just by yourself,
like I think, our own littleprivate holidays are also some
of the best things to celebrateand enjoy what we, what we feel
(01:10):
and celebrate in our heart.
Sometimes it's a hard time ofyear for folks too, so if that's
the case, I hope you feel peaceand connection that you'reation
visits.
So I do in-home visits as anIBCLC with folks at a variety of
(01:32):
times.
Sometimes it's the day they gethome from the hospital after
having a baby.
Sometimes it's a few days after, when they're encountering some
challenges.
Sometimes it's two weeks or twomonths.
I'm meeting with somebodytomorrow and the baby's a couple
months old.
I met with somebody last week.
Baby was born, you know, threeor four months ago.
So it's a variety of times thatwe visit.
(01:55):
But I want to talk aboutspecifically the benefit of
prenatal visiting with an IBCLCand what the value of that might
be.
So there are breastfeedingclasses to take.
I would highly encourage you totake a breastfeeding class, and
this is something I did notused to feel that importantly
about.
I just felt if people had atiny bit of knowledge of the
(02:15):
basics, like a couple sentencesworth in their head, then they
would be fine If their goal wasto breastfeed like all right, we
know you want to breastfeed.
If you know, you know, let'ssay there's not much milk in the
beginning, it's important tolatch the baby early and we'll
see what happens.
That's all you know.
Great, there's so much more toknow than that and as you do
know things before you go intoit, it helps take away some of
(02:39):
that mystery and it helps you bemore realistically and better
prepared for what you face whenthe baby is born.
So the reason I am bringing thistopic up I have seen a couple
of people lately.
One of them, I think the baby,was a couple weeks old and they
were in kind of a dire situationand it took them a while to
reach out for support and Iwished they had reached out a
(03:02):
little bit sooner.
The other situation was similar, but the baby wasn't quite as
old.
It was maybe five, six days old, not a couple of weeks old.
But I could see, as I met withfolks, there was some things
they could have eliminated somechallenges or negated them to
some extent by some prenatalknowledge, by the things that
they prepared themselves with.
(03:23):
I don't know if you're sensingthis too, but there are so many
baby products out there andbreastfeeding products and baby
monitors and there's so manyapps like it feels overwhelming
all the things that you needquote unquote need to get when a
baby's born.
But as I've seen these lastcouple of situations that
(03:45):
prompted this episode, peoplekind of got they purchased less
helpful items, which was kind ofinteresting Along the lines of
pumps.
They got pumps that were notgood for their goals.
They weren't helping them meettheir goals, nor were they a
great pump or a good fit forthem.
They also had in one case theyhad some bottles that are some
(04:07):
of my least favorite bottles onthe market and it was creating
some challenges that thesepeople were facing.
Another one I went and visitedthis this client and the baby
had been drinking pumped breastmilk diligently which was pretty
cool from a bottle, but had nottried to breastfeed very much.
(04:29):
So as we got into a visit.
You know, we tried a latch andwe kind of worked on a latch and
had a position for that and Iasked the mom how feedings had
gone and we were probably fiveminutes into this latch, which
with a baby, a newborn, you knowthese often take 10 to 40
minutes for a feeding and if youdon't know that you wouldn't
know that.
But we were about five minutesin and I said, okay, is this
(04:50):
kind of like it has been?
She goes we've never tried thislong, like they had never tried
up to five minutes to get thebaby on the breast and to stay
on the breast.
So that was like, oh gosh, thatwould have been really neat for
them to know, before this babywas born and as they've been
working with it for a couple ofweeks now, that the feeding is
(05:11):
going to be kind of a long timeand a latch is an instant.
It does take a little bit oftime for some babies to get a
good latch and this baby didmarvelous.
Like this baby latched on andgave a great feed, got a good
amount out of the breast and fora baby that hadn't been
practicing on the breast verymuch, I was incredibly impressed
with what this baby was able todo.
Not all babies will jump backand forth like that very easily,
(05:34):
so the benefits of prenataleducation with a lactation
consultant can be incrediblybeneficial.
They can customize thepreparation to you to what your
goals are.
I love meeting with my clientsahead of time.
It's a good hour and a half totwo hours and we will spend time
talking about what to expect inthe early days, why that first
(05:55):
latch is important in that firsthour and some positions we will
.
I bring a little baby doll andI let them kind of hold it.
As I work in a hospital inlactation, I'll tell you one
thing that's fascinating is thatcross cradle hold is not
intuitive to almost anyone.
Everybody wants to do just aregular cradle hold, which
(06:15):
that's what we see right.
If you have had the privilegeor experience to be able to see
anyone breastfeeding in yourlife, they're probably doing a
cradle hold which is a superadvanced move Like that's in a
mom and a baby who know whatthey're doing.
That baby has some neck control.
That mom can do it one handed,but in the beginning it's two to
four hands.
It seems like to help get ababy latched and stay latched,
(06:36):
so helping them with that andhelping them to know what to
expect.
You know a lot of people like,okay, awesome, my baby latched.
Great, in the first hour.
We're good to go, not realizingthat baby's going to go pretty
sleepy for a while for the nextday and then the next day the
baby's going to be pretty ornery, pretty grumpy, pretty hungry,
wanting to latch what will feellike relentlessly.
So just knowing those thingscan be helpful.
(06:58):
And then product wise, right.
So having someone I will do,even like a, an, assess a nipple
assessment ahead of time andfit flanges for somebody ahead
of time, and those can changeslightly within millimeters
after delivery and at some timeat the breast.
But, um, when people have a, awell-fitting flange, if they're
(07:18):
going to be needing to use apump, that's going to be helpful
.
Um, if sometimes I'll look atnipples, I'm like, oh boy you,
you know, this might be a littlemore challenging.
So people go into it withrealistic expectations.
I always, always, always,there's always hope.
I promise, I promise.
I've seen some really toughsituations turn out beautifully.
A few months ago I was seeingtwo different people.
(07:40):
One everything was goingfabulously Like.
Her anatomy was the breast andthe nipple and the baby's mouth
were perfect for each other,like the breast was um long and
or the nipple was long.
The breast was, the nipple wasvery elastic, very supple, easy,
latch.
Um, and I was working withanother client who had very
(08:00):
short nipples, one flat, veryfirm breasts and the baby's
mouth didn't help us out either.
And as I worked with both ofthese I was feeling pretty
confident about the onesituation and feeling kind of
anxious about the other, hopingthat things could work out,
knowing it would take a lot oftime and dedication from that
mom and baby.
(08:20):
But they could do it, theycould get it to work.
And wouldn't you know it?
It in the course of my timeworking with them they switched
places.
The mom, who I was worriedabout because of Anatomy
challenges, and for both babyand mom, ended up doing
beautifully where the mom andthe baby, who had a perfect
matchup of Anatomy and made itlook really simple in the
beginning, they ended up comingup with some unique challenges
(08:43):
down the road.
So they kind of switched spots.
So there's always always hopethat if something looks or seems
frustrating, we can get past it, we can work through it If
you're willing to learn about itand kind of put in the time and
the dedication to make thatwork.
Sometimes getting breastfeedingto work great does take a
couple weeks or a few weeks.
(09:04):
I've seen up to a couple monthsbefore it gets pretty or more
easy.
So that prenatal education isvery helpful.
I like to look at the bottlespeople have and sometimes like,
oh, how about we switch to adifferent, uh, a different
bottle in this situation?
Or oh, that pump.
Like, what are your goals withpumping?
If they say I'm going to be anexclusive pumper, I'm like then
(09:26):
we got to get a different pumpfor you, because not all pumps
are created equal.
There are companies out therewho will sell the public any old
thing, right, whether it's good, they market better than they
research.
So they're.
You know, depending on what'smarketed to you.
Do a little of your ownresearch.
Get a good pump.
If you're going to be pumping alot, it's great to have a
(09:49):
double electric plug-in pump,not a hands-freefree.
I know hands-free soundsamazing and convenient, but if
you're doing a lot of pumpingthat's not a great pump for you.
Or if we need that to bring themilk in, it's probably not
going to be strong enough to beused multiple times a day to
bring milk in or if we'reexclusively pumping.
Same with bottles get a goodbottle, and what I mean by a
(10:10):
good bottle is a bottle that hasa long, firm nipple and a broad
base.
So there are brands out therethat have very soft nipples.
They try to look like a breast.
It's kind of short and babiescan't quite trust those.
They're kind of flimsy.
They're soft enough that as thebaby applies it's firm, suck to
that and seal.
It can kind of compress thenipple and milk doesn't come out
(10:32):
as well.
I've even seen babies compressthe whole nipple into the bottle
and then they're not evengetting anything out at all.
So do the triangle test, see ifthat nipple and the bottle that
you have purchased can fit intothat little triangle test that
you may have seen online.
I'm trying to think otherthings.
Yeah, a lot of it is theequipment people get.
(10:54):
So check in with your lactationspecialist ahead of time, if
you can, about what your plansare.
And in a perfect world we don't.
In a perfect breastfeedingworld, we don't really want to
touch a pump for three to fourweeks or a bottle, or even a
pacifier, if we can help it,because we want to get the milk
regulated between the mom andthe baby and not have a pump
(11:16):
interrupt that.
We want to get the baby reallygood at the breast before we
introduce the bottle andsometimes even pacifiers I've
seen that kind of knocks thebaby off.
I was just at a clientyesterday.
They have a pretty new babythree, four days old.
The baby's doing pretty well atlatching but with engorgement,
got a little frustrated and sothey gave it a pacifier during
(11:36):
the night and the next fewlatches, they said the baby just
didn't do as well.
So again, in a perfectbreastfeeding world, we avoid
any artificial nipples orpumping for three to four weeks.
And then there's real life.
There's reality and weoftentimes need to use any one
or all of those tools in certainsituations, that we need to
(11:57):
lean on them a little bit morein certain situations.
So an IBCLC can help guide youthrough that.
So make sure you work with oneif you are able to, or go to
those breastfeeding supportgroups.
There's resources online.
Maybe your pediatrician'soffice has a lactation
consultant available.
There are a lot of communityresources.
There's WIC, there's La LecheLeague.
(12:18):
Maybe your family is a greatsource of support and knowledge
for that.
But look around, make sure thatyou have the information you
need and the support and then,as everything in parenting,
you're going to take all thatinformation, that you have the
information you need and thesupport, and then, as everything
in parenting, you're going totake all that information that
you're getting out there thatyou know sometimes contradicts
each other and you're going tocipher through it and use what
(12:38):
you need for you, your situation, your baby and your family.
So hopefully that's a littletidbit on some importance of
preemptively, like taking someinitiation to get some lactation
help before you even have ababy in your arms can be very
helpful.
Lots of things to learn there.
So hopefully that's somethingyou can use, take with you and
(13:01):
it can help your situation orsomebody that you know.
Thank you so much for being withme here today.
I've enjoyed I always enjoytime together.
I love doing this podcast andthe people I meet through it,
the connections that I'm able tomake, and I hope I just hope.
My hope is that thisinformation can help someone
somewhere.
Hopefully you can reach out andmake a great connection with
(13:21):
someone else today.
Go do a kind act of service inthe world Could be simple.
Those simple things go a long,long ways.
Hopefully you have a good oneand we will see you here next
time.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thanks, Thank you for listening to the Ordinary Doula
podcast with Angie Rozier,hosted by Birth Learning.
(13:53):
Episode credits will be in theshow notes Tune in next time as
we continue to explore the manyaspects of giving birth.
Thank you.
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