August 30, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode of the Jet Life Podcast, host Tom Lelyo sits down with Matt White, CEO of BWI Aviation Insurance Agency, to break down the often-overlooked world of private aviation insurance. Matt shares stories about the real importance of having the right coverage, like the $275,000 aircraft claim that saved a pilot from financial disaster. They discuss essential insurance tips for first-time aircraft and jet owners, including the crucial training requirements pilots need to know.
Tune in as Tom and Matt explore the ins and outs of aircraft liability, whole coverage, and what it takes to get insured in the world of private aviation. Whether you're an aircraft owner or a Jet Broker looking to better serve your clients, this episode has valuable insights you won't want to miss.
Highlights:
✈️ Why aviation insurance is critical for aircraft owners
✈️ Key coverages and training requirements for first-time jet owners
✈️The difference between liability and physical damage insurance
✈️ How Matt’s company pioneered the iFly Quote software to speed up aviation insurance quotes
✈️The different types of coverage available
Subscribe to the JetLife Podcast for more aviation insights!
#AviationInsurance #PrivateJet #AircraftInsurance #JetLife #PilotSafety
Get In Touch With Matt:
Matt@bwifly.com
https://bwifly.com/
—
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He had a 185.
He decided to put skis on theaircraft landing on skis and one
of the ski gear breaks onlanding Prop strike aircraft
tumbles.
Complete aircraft destroyed275,000.
We turned the claim into theinsurance company and this is
where the insurance companymatters and your relationship,
your long-term relationship,with that company matters.
(00:21):
That's the difference betweenzero coverage and $275,000 in
aircraft coverage.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello, hello and welcome everybody to the Jet
Life Podcast.
My name's Tom Lelio, I'm yourultimate jet guide and today
we're pulling back the curtainon private aviation insurance.
Whether you're a buyer or abroker, we're going to the
curtain on private aviationinsurance.
Whether you're a buyer or abroker, we're going to help you
(00:52):
navigate the world of privateaviation insurance.
Today I have my guest, MattWhite, who is the CEO, business
owner of BWI Aviation InsuranceAgency.
They've got over 9,000 aircraftinsured, so they know exactly
what they're talking about.
If you can't get it written, goto Matt and his team and you'll
have the best shot of getting arisk written with this team.
(01:15):
They also are the pioneers ofthe iFly quote software that is
going to be used across theinsurance agency hopefully in
the near future, because it'sone of the fastest ways to get
quotes for insurance brokerswith all the carriers.
So we're super excited to bringMatt.
He's a family man.
We were just talking about backto school stuff and we're just
(01:39):
really pumped to have him onhere.
So, Matt, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you, Tom, for that intro.
I appreciate that.
Really great to finally be onyour podcast.
I know we've been trying to gettogether for a couple of months
now and I'm super excited tochat with you about the world of
aviation insurance everybody'smost interesting, favorite topic
.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Let's go pump it up.
Well, you know it's funny.
My father-in-law is in theinsurance business and you know
it's one of those things whereyou think you don't need it, but
if you don't have it you'regoing to want it in certain
situations.
Better to have it and not needit than to not have it and want
it and need it.
So I'm just kind of curiouswhat got you into the insurance
(02:19):
world to begin with, becauseit's not something that you know
.
Kind of curious what?
What got you into the insuranceworld to begin with?
Cause it's not something thatyou know.
A lot of kids go to school.
When you ask them what do youwant to be to grow up?
Uh, insurance comes across.
And then, of course, you, in myopinion, you know you hit the
jackpot.
Where you're, at least inaviation.
Insurance was kind of like thethe cool kids club.
You're the maverick of theinsurance world.
(02:41):
So tell us a little bit how yougot into it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I don't.
I agree with you.
I don't think.
You know.
Almost nobody says when I grewup, I want to be in the world, I
want to be an aviationinsurance broker.
My dad owned an aviationinsurance company very small
company when I was a kid.
I used to go there after schooland help with filing, and even
that he owned a brokerage.
I never thought I would end upworking for him or working in
(03:07):
the industry, and I think it'strue for most people.
I mean most of the people thatwork for us or that are friends
with us.
They never wake up and say I'mgoing to be an aircraft
insurance broker when I grow up.
They kind of fall into it andit's a really crazy, interesting
, exciting, well-paying careerto fall into.
(03:29):
And so my story personally, youknow, I went to school.
I went was getting into troublewhen I graduated high school,
so joined the Marines.
They straightened me out forsure and started some businesses
after that and realized Ireally liked business and
growing businesses, and then Ihad the opportunity to get
(03:51):
involved with, and eventuallybuy my dad's aircraft insurance
agency and so I started workingthere in 2011 and started
revamping all the technology.
And started revamping all thetechnology.
You know, we had paper filesand all that stuff back then and
then I got the opportunity tobuy it in 2016.
So I bought the company and,you know, fell in love with the
(04:14):
industry.
Insuring airplanes.
Everybody's like what is that?
What is insuring airplanes?
And I think, like you said,it's a cool kids club.
It's definitely very exciting.
Every single day is somethingdifferent.
It's a different plane, it's adifferent pilot, it's a
different aircraft to use,different situation every single
day.
Every day is interesting, everyrisk is interesting and you
(04:37):
know, I absolutely love it.
And the industry it's a verysmall industry, very small,
close-knit industry and thedemand for young people, young
talented professionals goinginto this industry very high
demand.
We need lots of people.
We need lots of really goodpeople.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I'm going to veer off track for a quick
second.
How does one become an aviationinsurance program?
Veer off track for a quicksecond.
How does one become an aviationinsurance program?
I mean, do you have to go for aproperty and casualty and kind
of go that route and then justkind of know somebody, or can
you hop right into it?
Is there?
Is there an aviation license,certification for aviation
insurance?
Like how does that work?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
yeah, absolutely it's .
It's uh, it's harder than youwould think to get in to.
It feels that yeah, yeah toyeah to get in.
So the people that we tend tohire and recruit either are one
of two things they are aninsurance broker, but they're
not into aviation.
They're an auto insurancebroker.
(05:38):
They're home and they're bored.
They want to join the Cool KidsClub, they want to do something
different.
So they come to us and we canteach them and the industry has
tools we can teach them aviation.
They combine that withinsurance and they're an
aviation insurance broker.
The other side of it is pilotspro pilots especially, um that
(05:58):
are tired of traveling.
They're looking, you know,they're starting a family,
they're looking for moreconsistency.
They love aviation, but a lotof times aviation doesn't pay
very well, and so those we'vehad a lot of those people come
to us and we can train insurance.
We've got the aviation, wetrain insurance.
You put those two thingstogether and that's how you
(06:20):
that's the right approach to getinto the industry.
There's a lot of I say a lotthere's a few industry courses.
The AIA, the Aviation InsuranceAssociation, has their own
certification and intro coursesand things like that, but
there's a lack of certificationsand courses within the industry
in general, so do the pilotsneed anything, Because I mean,
(06:43):
obviously, if they're insurancepeople, they have their, their,
their license.
Yeah, if they're a pilot, theygot to get their insurance
license, their property andcasualty insurance.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Interesting.
Well, I actually did insurancefor a little while.
Like I said, my father-in-lawis an insurance broker, his own
agency.
I sold property in casualty, Igot my health and life insurance
and I only lasted about maybe ayear or so because I just
Underwriters man, I could getthem in, I could do the sales, I
(07:13):
could close the deal, but thenall of a sudden the underwriter
is like yeah, no, and so it wasjust, it was rough, but let's
get into talking about insurancefor first-time jet owners.
Oh, I meant to ask actually,before I do that, are you a
pilot and an aircraft owneryourself?
I'm not gotcha, okay, I love, Ilove that.
That's exactly how I was when Ifirst started out, like people
(07:35):
would ask me, are you a pilot?
like nope, but I can sell jetslike nope, but I can get you the
right coverage 100.
Cool.
So let's talk about first-timeUm.
What do they need to be awareof?
Um, let's say they.
Let's say they don't have anaircraft.
We'll talk about if they'removing in from a piston to or a
(07:58):
turboprop into the jet world.
But let's just say first timejet owners and or just like
first time aircraft owners.
What do people need to knowabout aviation insurance?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So let me kind of focus on um first time aircraft
owners.
I'm thinking you know singleengine, land your one 72, is
your your general uh landaviation aircraft.
Um, so once you have anaircraft make and model that you
know you're looking to purchaseum, and whether you're a
(08:28):
student pilot or private pilotor etc once you know that
aircraft make and model and and,um, typically the you know
right around the ballpark of thewhole value, the value of the
aircraft.
That's the point that you wantto engage a broker and start
shopping for aircraft insuranceand before that you can call us.
We can give you super briefballpark insurance cost.
(08:50):
You know this is what it'sgoing to cost to insure that
airplane, but really we want toknow what's the aircraft make
and model, what's the wholevalue, and then what does it
look like for you as a pilot,what are your qualifications,
hours, et cetera, and then wecan start providing quotes and
going across the industry tofind the best policy for you.
The other thing that I think alot of people miss is the
(09:16):
training requirements insurance,pilot training requirements.
If you're buying a new airplane, if you're transitioning into a
higher performance airplane,you're going to have insurance
training.
You know pilot trainingrequirements, dual sim school,
all that kind of stuff, and alot of times people are focused
on the cost of insurance.
46 or a vision jet or you know,a more advanced aircraft like
(09:44):
that.
The quotes that your broker isgoing to get back, the insurance
quotes that your broker isgoing to send to you, they're
going to have different prices,but they're going to have way
different training requirements.
So one company might have alower you know insurance costs
but they're requiring 20 hoursof dual or something you know,
(10:05):
versus you get back a higherpremium quote and they're
requiring a CFI checkoff, right?
So so the training requirementsis what I think most people miss
.
And, um, you know, and?
And the other part of it is hey, you know, I want to go buy a
new airplane.
I buy the airplane and then, oh, now I need to get insurance.
I forgot the insurance piece,now I need to get insurance.
(10:27):
Call a broker and A you know,and sometimes there's situations
we can't offer insurance basedon pilot training and maybe the
complexity of the aircraft ormaybe there's claims history or
things like that, and now it's aproblem, especially if you have
a bank on the loan trying tobuy this airplane.
You can't get insurance, bigproblem.
Or the second thing is thetraining requirements.
(10:49):
I bought an airplane, now I getinsurance and now I have to do
20, 10 hours, 20 hours, and Idon't want to do that, I just
want to go fly the airplane.
So I think those are the twomost common things people miss.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So with the training, then if I buy an aircraft and
they require 10 hours oftraining, is my aircraft covered
while I'm training, or is it?
We won't?
We'll give you a spot in linebut we will not buy in the
coverage and it won't be activeuntil you complete the training.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, absolutely so.
If there's pilot trainingrequirements, you take
possession of the aircraft, youstart the insurance policy.
Of course, if there's a bank,you know the finance alone of
the aircraft.
You have to have insurance, youhave to have whole coverage.
So you start the insurancepolicy as soon as you become the
owner of the airplane and ifthere's training requirements on
there.
(11:39):
So, first of all, if theaircraft's on the ground and the
hangar burns up and burns yourairplane, you know if you have
whole coverage on the insurancepolicy, there's going to be
coverage for the aircraft.
If you have pilot trainingrequirements, usually it will
stipulate um, these are the fivehours or 10 hours of dual you
need to, you know, completeprior to carrying passengers.
(12:02):
Um, so you're covered whileyou're training, while you're
completing those five or 10hours dual, something happens to
your plane, you know there's,there's coverage there, as long
as you don't carry passengersbefore you've completed that
training coverage there as longas you don't carry passengers
before you've completed thattraining.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
So you kind of alluded to this.
Maybe it's similar to cars, soyou can ensure the whole value
of the aircraft.
And then there's also othercoverages that include.
So can you walk us through someof the coverages, or basic
coverages, that people need tothink about?
And brokers, you know.
Frankly, you know part of thisconversation is hey, if you're a
broker, you want to beknowledgeable about this stuff
(12:41):
so you can advise your clients.
Hey, we need to talk to aninsurance broker because of A, b
and C.
So what are some of thecoverages that people typically
look at when they're looking ataviation insurance?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely, so the base coverage is liability
coverage insurance, absolutelyso.
The base coverage is liabilitycoverage.
And as soon as you become anaircraft owner, your legal
liability risk increases becauseyou're the owner of an aircraft
that can damage, hurt somebody.
Your liability exposureincreases and so that's the base
(13:14):
coverage on every aircraftinsurance policy is liability
coverage.
It's also the most inexpensivepart of the policy.
I mean, you're looking at acouple hundred bucks for a 172
for the whole year of liabilitycoverage.
And liability coverage protectsyou, the aircraft owner, from
any property or personal damagethat your aircraft causes.
(13:37):
So if you're taxing, you hitsomebody, hit a car.
You know all that kind of stuff.
If you have passengers in theaircraft, there's a sublimit for
passengers in the aircraft andthat's the base coverage is
liability coverage.
Definitely, if you own anairplane, you really need
liability coverage.
You can't control a lot ofthings.
(13:59):
You can't control weather, youcan't control what happens at
the airport and if somethingdoes happen, you want that.
Usually a million dollars inliability coverage ready to go
to protect you Because, as youknow, today everybody's too
happy, especially with peoplethat own an airplane.
Something happens, everybody'sgoing to sue everybody.
You want that liabilitycoverage.
So that's the base coverage.
Ninety five percent of ourcustomers have one million
(14:25):
dollars in liability coverageand that's limited to one
hundred thousand per passenger.
And, briefly, how that works islet's say you own a 172, you
have two passengers in theaircraft.
Something happens.
Both passengers are, you know,significantly injured.
You have up to 100,000 for eachof those passengers for any
(14:49):
legal liabilities that you knowthat they come after you for,
okay.
So let's say 200,000, 100,000each passenger.
Out of your million dollars,you now have $800,000 left for
any damage.
We call it outside of theaircraft.
So if you, you know, god forbidhit a house or another hangar,
car or something that's howthat's how it works.
(15:10):
There's usually no passenger orthere's no coverage for crew.
So you, as the aircraft ownerand the pilot, you're a crew.
There's no insurance coveragefor you.
That's pilot life insurance.
That's a.
That's a different thing fromthe policies that we offer.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So, so if, if I didn't know any better as an
owner or as a broker, and theowner just gets liability
coverage, I would have thoughtthat the pilot and the co-pilot
were covered and you're tellingme, no, there needs to be
another product, maybe a rideror something that would go on in
addition to that policy.
(15:45):
Correct, interesting, okay,okay, gotcha, okay, so we're
looking at.
I'm kind of curious and okay,so we're looking at.
I'm kind of curious.
Do you have any examples or anystories about where the
aviation insurance saved the dayor would have saved the day if
(16:06):
it were there, in yourexperience with these pilots and
with these owners For legalliability yeah, legal liability,
or just kind of?
In general, I'm kind of curious, just some of the stories that
you've seen over the years ofwhy aviation insurance is
important, you know, because Ithink that's that always kind of
brings it to light.
(16:27):
Like, for example, like Iremember I heard a story of a.
It was an owner with his CFIand you know they were at the
airport and you know the CFI,they were 2A guys and you know
the CFI was showing him hisconcealed carry for the day and
(16:50):
you know, as he goes to clearsit.
He figures everything is goodto go and part of his clearing
process was to actually pull thetrigger to make sure that
there's nothing in there.
And so in doing so, believe itor not, there was something in
there.
And so all of a sudden, therethere's a, there's a puncture in
the, in the, in the bottom halfof of the little uh of the
(17:13):
aircraft, and, um, I mean, theyI don't think they ended up
reporting, I think they justkind of patched it up and it was
fine, it was no big deal.
But you know things like thatyou just never know what's going
to happen around planes is kindof my point.
And so you want to have thecoverage so that if something
much worse like what if you knowthe discharge had gone and hurt
(17:33):
somebody, or what if it didn'thit in a safe spot and it hit in
the fuel tank and that was aproblem, and now that you got a
fuel leak, all that kind ofstuff it's the importance of not
just I don't even know ifaviation insurance would have
necessarily covered that.
You know, because you need towork with a professional to know
, like we said, the pilots is anadditional rider Maybe.
(17:53):
Maybe certain situations areadditional coverages that people
think that they just check thebox of yep, I've got insurance
and now I'm good to go.
But they forget.
These companies write thepolicies in such a way that,
unless you're very specific,they're they're not going to
just like wave a magic wand andcover you for anything.
I mean, they write the policiesin a way that you know will
(18:15):
cover you, but there's somequalifiers there.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
Thanks for bringing that up.
I think there's a there's alack of information, knowledge
about aircraft insurance thewhole in the whole United States
, and I'd love to clear some ofthat up.
So a couple of things.
We talked about the firstcoverage, liability coverage.
Definitely you're an aircraftowner, protect your liability
exposure with that basic policy.
(18:40):
The second coverage on a policyis physical damage coverage for
the aircraft itself, damagecoverage for the aircraft itself
.
So if you're, if your Cessna150 is worth 50,000, you should
have, in my opinion, $50,000 inphysical damage coverage on the
aircraft.
(19:02):
This is different than carinsurance.
Car insurance, auto insuranceis based off of appreciation and
and and value depreciation.
Aircraft insurance is based onagreed value.
So there's no, there's nodepreciation.
It's the one made one of thebiggest differences between auto
insurance and aircraftinsurance.
So you buy one 50, you knowit's.
You think it's worth 50,000.
You come to me hey, matt, I'dlike a quote for 50,000 whole
(19:24):
coverage.
I shopped the market.
I get you a quote Once, theinsurance once.
I send your information out tothe insurance company and they
send back a quote that says$50,000, here's a quote for
$50,000 whole coverage.
They're agreeing with me andyou that the $150,000 is worth
$50,000.
So they give us a quote, we buythe policy.
If your CESTA 150 burns down inthe hangar or if you crash land
(19:49):
and it's a complete loss,they're going to take a check of
$50,000 and send you exactlywhat the value was less any
deductibles.
So there's no.
What is it worth now?
What are the avionics worth?
It's agreed value, insured forthat, and that's what you get if
there, if there's a total loss,that's what you get if there's
a total loss.
So those are the primary twocoverages and the accents and
(20:11):
the claims and how insuranceplays into it.
It's wild, it's actually it'sreally.
So there's, you know and this iswhat I'd love to get this out
to so many people the insurancecompany that you're with.
There's about 24 insurancecompanies that insure airplanes.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, not a lot Compared to cars.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
any idea how many car insurance companies there are
Hundreds, and hundreds of carinsurance companies, only 23 or
24 of them will insure airplanesand each of those companies is
different.
So when you buy an insurancepolicy, you need to know you
know the history on theinsurance company.
The first, the most importantthing, is the history on the
(20:55):
insurance company.
What does the policy look like?
How's the policy worded?
How strong is that policy inyour favor if you have an
accident?
And then the third one iseverybody you know doesn't
understand this or messes thisup.
A lot is building a multi-yearrelationship with that insurance
company.
People that I think shop aroundevery year to save $100, $150
(21:17):
and they move to a differentinsurance company.
They're messing, they'reruining that opportunity to
build a multi-year relationshipwith that company.
And I had an accident in Alaskaa couple of years ago.
One of our customers and he hada 185 and he decided to put
skis on the aircraft and didn'tlet us know that he put skis on
(21:42):
the aircraft.
He didn't let the insurancecompany know that he had skis
and this was a $275,000, uh,cessna 185 and landing and
landing on skis and one of theski gear breaks on landing was
not, was not pilot error, thatwas equipment malfunction, ski
breaks, prop strike aircrafttumbles, complete aircraft
(22:05):
275,000.
Calls me.
We look at the policy and hesays yeah, I was landing on skis
and I said we're covered forwheels.
On this pause there's, we didn'tadd skis coverage.
And he goes I didn't know, Ineeded to add, you know, skis
coverage, you know on acompletely honest mistake.
So we turn the claim into theinsurance company.
And this is where the insurancecompany matters and your
(22:26):
relationship, your long-termrelationship with that company
matters.
Turn the claim into theinsurance company.
Insurance company says we'regoing to deny the claim.
We, you know, we, we, thisaircraft's not covered for skis.
So I call the underwriter and Isay I know you guys, you know,
aren't obligated to cover this.
However, this customer has beenwith you for seven years.
(22:47):
Great paying customer, builtthat relationship, never had a
claim until today.
Is there anything we can do?
Underwriter looks at the policyyeah, he's been with us seven
years.
You know what?
We're going to make anexception.
We're going to cover this.
It was an honest mistake.
He forgot to add a skiscoverage.
That's the difference betweenzero coverage and $275,000 in
(23:08):
aircraft coverage.
So you know I like that examplethat illustrates, you know, the
power of having a relationshipand being with a very good
aviation insurance company.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, that's a great insurance carrier, but it's also
a great broker to advocate onyour behalf.
Because, at the end of the day,you as an owner like you're the
aircraft owner like you don'tget to talk to mr underwriter
and plead your case, right, okay, only the brokers do that.
And and so having a goodrelationship with your broker
(23:40):
that makes them want to go tobat for you, like that's really
important, and the more of arelationship you have, the more
that they can go to bat for you.
I mean that's also a testamentto, I think, how well like you
guys conduct your business asbrokers on behalf of your
clients.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and I think that's why, um, you know, if you
want an airplane, you want tobe insured with a broker that
specializes only in aviation.
There's a lot of you know, theydo auto and they do home and
they also do aviation.
Well, if you, you know, youcall me.
Hey, I need an insurance policy.
I might want $275,000, 185, asthey're getting that initial
information from you what's yourpilot information with your
(24:18):
qualifications, what you know,what type of aircraft?
Whatever, if they forget to askyou hey, um, is this aircraft
ever on skis?
These little tiny you wouldnever think to ask is that
aircraft on skis?
And if that's a yes or no, ifthat's a yes, out of the 22
aviation insurance companies,maybe only six will cover if the
(24:41):
aircraft's on skis, and inthose six companies they're all
different.
So some of those companies willautomatically cover skis.
Some of those companies willonly cover skis if you change
and endorse the policy to addskis coverage.
So it's not like just takingthe data and the aircraft,
sending it out and getting aquote.
There's so much specialknowledge you need to know with
(25:05):
individual airplanes, individualinsurance companies and how
that all plays out to recommendthe best insurance policy.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That's a lot.
Um, this might be a littletangential, but is there some
kind of a software or a systemthat you got, a tool that you
guys can use to make it easierfor yourselves, um, as brokers,
to find the right coverage andask the right questions for your
clients?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So, yeah, we have.
So we have two, two pieces ofsoftware.
It's it really comes down to, Ithink, learning in the industry
and having years of experience.
And that's why you know yourquestion how do you get into the
industry?
Well, that, I think that's stepone getting into the industry.
But step two is like, as you,as you work with different types
of aircraft and differentinsurance companies and
(25:49):
different pilots for two, three,four, five years, 10 years, you
start.
You just start learning allthese, all these little nuances.
Some of them are you makemistakes, others can be taught.
You go through the courses andall that.
But that's the real value ofhaving somebody with experience
in the industry.
And actually that's kind of howour pay scale is set up for our
(26:13):
employees.
Like year one, when we have anew hire, that's learning from
us.
You're learning all thesenuances and different things
about insurance.
Our base salaries are prettylow, but year two, three, four
and five, they ramp updramatically because you're
learning so much knowledge aboutthe industry and you're so much
(26:34):
more valuable, not only to usbut to our customers when they
call and talk to you.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, well, I got to say your insurance brokers I've
had the pleasure to work withthem directly are I've had the
pleasure to work with themdirectly and if I had to imagine
, based on what you just said,jackie's a millionaire she must
have skyrocketed way up there.
We'll make sure she hears thispart of the video.
(27:00):
It's the value for sure.
So, first of all, matt, Iappreciate all of nuances and
the info that you shed light onfor buyers, for guys who want to
own an aircraft and need to bethinking about things, about
insurance.
I think you broke it downreally, really well the fact
that you're going to haveliability.
You're also going to haveproperty coverage.
(27:23):
You also talked about the factof how important there's only 24
carriers and so don't just goshopping around, even brokers.
It's not healthy to go shoppingaround because, at the end of
the day, there's only 24.
Once you quote somebody,another broker is not really
going to get much of a betterquote for you, unless they maybe
ask different questions.
But that's the great thingabout starting with you guys
(27:44):
that know what you're doing isthat you know that you're asking
the right questions to get thebest price.
So if they quote, if you get aquote, you know, and maybe they
don't like they go somewhereelse and like, oh look, this
policy is, like you know, athousand dollars cheaper.
It's like, well, look at thequestions.
You know, did they?
Um, you know, did they ask theright questions?
Do you have any advice forpeople that it would just be
common, kind of common for themto shop around with, uh,
(28:04):
different, different brokers?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I do and I made a quick YouTube video about how to
shop for aircraft insurance theright way.
And it's really not theaircraft owner's fault because
we're inundated with carinsurance commercials, with
GEICO and auto insurance shopeverywhere.
Give us a call, we'll goeverywhere and people take that
train of thought when they'reshopping for aircraft insurance.
(28:27):
And you almost couldn't mess itup any more than that.
As soon as like if you call onebroker, they're going to shop.
You know all 24 insurancecompanies.
If you get another brokerinvolved, it's going to mess up
the entire process.
It happens all the time and it'sa communication disconnect
between you know aircraft ownerslooking to get a simple
(28:50):
insurance policy and how theindustry operates.
The industry super smallindustry.
There's not enough underwritersto go around.
The underwriters areoverwhelmed if they're working
on a quote for BWI and anotherbroker gets the same tail number
and shops it to them andanother broker gets the same
tail number by the second orthird broker, they're just like.
I'm not even going to quotethis, I don't have enough time.
(29:12):
I'm seeing they're shoppingaround everywhere I'm out.
I'm not going to quote this,let's move on to somebody else.
So I think that's one of thebiggest misconceptions is shop
around.
If you hire a broker likemyself or one of our competitors
, it's their job to shop aroundfor you.
It's not like you call anotherbroker.
You're not shopping around anyother new companies.
(29:35):
The only company that'sdifferent than from what we do
is a Vemco.
A Vemco is its own you knowinsurance company and they have
very specific makes and modelsthat they like to insure.
Any other you know aircraftinsurance broker is going to
shop you with the same 22, 24insurance companies.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Gotcha, that's a great piece of advice.
I appreciate that.
Well, let's pivot for a secondbecause, like I said, I do have
firsthand working with you guysand the reason I was working
with not so much for aircraftownership was as a broker.
You know's, there'sprofessional liability that
comes with being an aircraftbroker.
Like you said, people like tosue for all kinds of reasons and
, you know, even despite ourbest efforts, there may be
(30:16):
opportunities where, or theremay be times where, we find
ourselves, um, you know, our,our actions or our decisions
called into question, and you,yeah, insurance coverage is
important.
So can you talk to us a littleabout professional liability,
errors and omissions?
I'm just going to throw a bunchof buzzwords so people think I
know what I'm talking about andmaybe you can explain it to us
(30:37):
and why it would be importantfor brokers to have some an
aviation professional servicesliability insurance policy.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So it's a liability policy specific to aviation
businesses and you can getcoverage.
Typically, I recommend at leasta million dollars in liability
coverage on one of thesepolicies.
They go all the way up to fiveor $10 million liability and
these's a lot that can go wrongand a lot of stuff that's
(31:35):
unintentional on your side.
But a paper wasn't checked, afield wasn't checked, something
happened and that's what thosepolicies are designed to protect
your business for.
So I definitely recommendeverybody should carry an
aviation professional liabilityinsurance policy.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Absolutely so.
Is that something where, when Ifirst start out, I should get
an insurance policy as a broker?
Or is that something that maybethe insurance carriers want to
see, proof that you've beendoing this a little while and
they won't even cover you whenyou first start out, because
obviously, when you're firststarting out, you could be a
really big risk for the carrier?
(32:17):
So how, how do carriers kind ofsee it, and when's the right
time?
When do you know is the righttime to get the coverage?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, so.
So I personally recommend Iwouldn't sell an airplane until
I had some type of professionalaviation professional liability
insurance policy myself.
You brought up a great pointthat the two data points that
companies look at when they'requoting these type of policies
is A how much experience do youhave, does your company have, in
(32:46):
selling airplanes?
And then the second part iswhat kind of revenue, what kind
of you know?
How many are you doing a month?
How much are you doing a year?
And I guess the third thing iswhat is your sales process?
Have you thought about reducingrisk?
Have you thought about how tomitigate all these errors and
(33:07):
emissions?
And that's why you know.
You go back to point one, likehow long you've been doing this?
Well, as you've been doing thisfor years and years and years.
You start, you make mistakes,just like we do on aviation
insurance.
You make mistakes and you learnand you get that industry
knowledge and that is valuableto the insurance companies and
you'll get a lower rate the moreinsurance you have or the more
experience you have.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
That makes sense.
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, listen, matt.
This has been a greatconversation.
I really do appreciate yourtime, energy and effort to be
here.
If people want to get moreinformation, whether it's
aircraft owners that are lookingfor a quote or brokers that are
looking for a quote onprofessional liability where can
people contact you at?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Absolutely.
Visit our website, bwiflyflycom, or you can email me directly,
matt.
At BWIFlycom, our website, youcan get a quote.
There's tons of blogs, articlesand, of course, email me
directly and be happy to helpyou out and be happy to help you
out.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Very cool.
And also, I would encourage youguys to check out Matt on
YouTube BWI Fly Live Greatresource there, similar to the
information that he's posted,but a lot more as well.
So, once again, matt, thanks somuch for being here and we'll
catch you later.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Awesome, tom.
Thanks again, take care.
He had a 185.
He decided to put skis on theaircraft landing on skis and one
of the ski gear breaks onlanding Prop strike aircraft
tumbles.
Complete aircraft destroyed275,000.
We turned the claim into theinsurance company and this is
where the insurance companymatters and your relationship,
your long-term relationship,with that company matters.
(00:21):
That's the difference betweenzero coverage and $275,000 in
aircraft coverage.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello, hello and welcome everybody to the Jet
Life Podcast.
My name's Tom Lelio, I'm yourultimate jet guide and today
we're pulling back the curtainon private aviation insurance.
Whether you're a buyer or abroker, we're going to the
curtain on private aviationinsurance.
Whether you're a buyer or abroker, we're going to help you
(00:52):
navigate the world of privateaviation insurance.
Today I have my guest, MattWhite, who is the CEO, business
owner of BWI Aviation InsuranceAgency.
They've got over 9,000 aircraftinsured, so they know exactly
what they're talking about.
If you can't get it written, goto Matt and his team and you'll
have the best shot of getting arisk written with this team.
(01:15):
They also are the pioneers ofthe iFly quote software that is
going to be used across theinsurance agency hopefully in
the near future, because it'sone of the fastest ways to get
quotes for insurance brokerswith all the carriers.
So we're super excited to bringMatt.
He's a family man.
We were just talking about backto school stuff and we're just
(01:39):
really pumped to have him onhere.
So, Matt, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you, Tom, for that intro.
I appreciate that.
Really great to finally be onyour podcast.
I know we've been trying to gettogether for a couple of months
now and I'm super excited tochat with you about the world of
aviation insurance everybody'smost interesting, favorite topic
.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Let's go pump it up.
Well, you know it's funny.
My father-in-law is in theinsurance business and you know
it's one of those things whereyou think you don't need it, but
if you don't have it you'regoing to want it in certain
situations.
Better to have it and not needit than to not have it and want
it and need it.
So I'm just kind of curiouswhat got you into the insurance
(02:19):
world to begin with, becauseit's not something that you know
.
Kind of curious what?
What got you into the insuranceworld to begin with?
Cause it's not something thatyou know.
A lot of kids go to school.
When you ask them what do youwant to be to grow up?
Uh, insurance comes across.
And then, of course, you, in myopinion, you know you hit the
jackpot.
Where you're, at least inaviation.
Insurance was kind of like thethe cool kids club.
You're the maverick of theinsurance world.
(02:41):
So tell us a little bit how yougot into it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I don't.
I agree with you.
I don't think.
You know.
Almost nobody says when I grewup, I want to be in the world, I
want to be an aviationinsurance broker.
My dad owned an aviationinsurance company very small
company when I was a kid.
I used to go there after schooland help with filing, and even
that he owned a brokerage.
I never thought I would end upworking for him or working in
(03:07):
the industry, and I think it'strue for most people.
I mean most of the people thatwork for us or that are friends
with us.
They never wake up and say I'mgoing to be an aircraft
insurance broker when I grow up.
They kind of fall into it andit's a really crazy, interesting
, exciting, well-paying careerto fall into.
(03:29):
And so my story personally, youknow, I went to school.
I went was getting into troublewhen I graduated high school,
so joined the Marines.
They straightened me out forsure and started some businesses
after that and realized Ireally liked business and
growing businesses, and then Ihad the opportunity to get
(03:51):
involved with, and eventuallybuy my dad's aircraft insurance
agency and so I started workingthere in 2011 and started
revamping all the technology.
And started revamping all thetechnology.
You know, we had paper filesand all that stuff back then and
then I got the opportunity tobuy it in 2016.
So I bought the company and,you know, fell in love with the
(04:14):
industry.
Insuring airplanes.
Everybody's like what is that?
What is insuring airplanes?
And I think, like you said,it's a cool kids club.
It's definitely very exciting.
Every single day is somethingdifferent.
It's a different plane, it's adifferent pilot, it's a
different aircraft to use,different situation every single
day.
Every day is interesting, everyrisk is interesting and you
(04:37):
know, I absolutely love it.
And the industry it's a verysmall industry, very small,
close-knit industry and thedemand for young people, young
talented professionals goinginto this industry very high
demand.
We need lots of people.
We need lots of really goodpeople.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I'm going to veer off track for a quick
second.
How does one become an aviationinsurance program?
Veer off track for a quicksecond.
How does one become an aviationinsurance program?
I mean, do you have to go for aproperty and casualty and kind
of go that route and then justkind of know somebody, or can
you hop right into it?
Is there?
Is there an aviation license,certification for aviation
insurance?
Like how does that work?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
yeah, absolutely it's .
It's uh, it's harder than youwould think to get in to.
It feels that yeah, yeah toyeah to get in.
So the people that we tend tohire and recruit either are one
of two things they are aninsurance broker, but they're
not into aviation.
They're an auto insurancebroker.
(05:38):
They're home and they're bored.
They want to join the Cool KidsClub, they want to do something
different.
So they come to us and we canteach them and the industry has
tools we can teach them aviation.
They combine that withinsurance and they're an
aviation insurance broker.
The other side of it is pilotspro pilots especially, um that
(05:58):
are tired of traveling.
They're looking, you know,they're starting a family,
they're looking for moreconsistency.
They love aviation, but a lotof times aviation doesn't pay
very well, and so those we'vehad a lot of those people come
to us and we can train insurance.
We've got the aviation, wetrain insurance.
You put those two thingstogether and that's how you
(06:20):
that's the right approach to getinto the industry.
There's a lot of I say a lotthere's a few industry courses.
The AIA, the Aviation InsuranceAssociation, has their own
certification and intro coursesand things like that, but
there's a lack of certificationsand courses within the industry
in general, so do the pilotsneed anything, Because I mean,
(06:43):
obviously, if they're insurancepeople, they have their, their,
their license.
Yeah, if they're a pilot, theygot to get their insurance
license, their property andcasualty insurance.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Interesting.
Well, I actually did insurancefor a little while.
Like I said, my father-in-lawis an insurance broker, his own
agency.
I sold property in casualty, Igot my health and life insurance
and I only lasted about maybe ayear or so because I just
Underwriters man, I could getthem in, I could do the sales, I
(07:13):
could close the deal, but thenall of a sudden the underwriter
is like yeah, no, and so it wasjust, it was rough, but let's
get into talking about insurancefor first-time jet owners.
Oh, I meant to ask actually,before I do that, are you a
pilot and an aircraft owneryourself?
I'm not gotcha, okay, I love, Ilove that.
That's exactly how I was when Ifirst started out, like people
(07:35):
would ask me, are you a pilot?
like nope, but I can sell jetslike nope, but I can get you the
right coverage 100.
Cool.
So let's talk about first-timeUm.
What do they need to be awareof?
Um, let's say they.
Let's say they don't have anaircraft.
We'll talk about if they'removing in from a piston to or a
(07:58):
turboprop into the jet world.
But let's just say first timejet owners and or just like
first time aircraft owners.
What do people need to knowabout aviation insurance?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So let me kind of focus on um first time aircraft
owners.
I'm thinking you know singleengine, land your one 72, is
your your general uh landaviation aircraft.
Um, so once you have anaircraft make and model that you
know you're looking to purchaseum, and whether you're a
(08:28):
student pilot or private pilotor etc once you know that
aircraft make and model and and,um, typically the you know
right around the ballpark of thewhole value, the value of the
aircraft.
That's the point that you wantto engage a broker and start
shopping for aircraft insuranceand before that you can call us.
We can give you super briefballpark insurance cost.
(08:50):
You know this is what it'sgoing to cost to insure that
airplane, but really we want toknow what's the aircraft make
and model, what's the wholevalue, and then what does it
look like for you as a pilot,what are your qualifications,
hours, et cetera, and then wecan start providing quotes and
going across the industry tofind the best policy for you.
The other thing that I think alot of people miss is the
(09:16):
training requirements insurance,pilot training requirements.
If you're buying a new airplane, if you're transitioning into a
higher performance airplane,you're going to have insurance
training.
You know pilot trainingrequirements, dual sim school,
all that kind of stuff, and alot of times people are focused
on the cost of insurance.
46 or a vision jet or you know,a more advanced aircraft like
(09:44):
that.
The quotes that your broker isgoing to get back, the insurance
quotes that your broker isgoing to send to you, they're
going to have different prices,but they're going to have way
different training requirements.
So one company might have alower you know insurance costs
but they're requiring 20 hoursof dual or something you know,
(10:05):
versus you get back a higherpremium quote and they're
requiring a CFI checkoff, right?
So so the training requirementsis what I think most people miss
.
And, um, you know, and?
And the other part of it is hey, you know, I want to go buy a
new airplane.
I buy the airplane and then, oh, now I need to get insurance.
I forgot the insurance piece,now I need to get insurance.
(10:27):
Call a broker and A you know,and sometimes there's situations
we can't offer insurance basedon pilot training and maybe the
complexity of the aircraft ormaybe there's claims history or
things like that, and now it's aproblem, especially if you have
a bank on the loan trying tobuy this airplane.
You can't get insurance, bigproblem.
Or the second thing is thetraining requirements.
(10:49):
I bought an airplane, now I getinsurance and now I have to do
20, 10 hours, 20 hours, and Idon't want to do that, I just
want to go fly the airplane.
So I think those are the twomost common things people miss.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So with the training, then if I buy an aircraft and
they require 10 hours oftraining, is my aircraft covered
while I'm training, or is it?
We won't?
We'll give you a spot in linebut we will not buy in the
coverage and it won't be activeuntil you complete the training.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, absolutely so.
If there's pilot trainingrequirements, you take
possession of the aircraft, youstart the insurance policy.
Of course, if there's a bank,you know the finance alone of
the aircraft.
You have to have insurance, youhave to have whole coverage.
So you start the insurancepolicy as soon as you become the
owner of the airplane and ifthere's training requirements on
there.
(11:39):
So, first of all, if theaircraft's on the ground and the
hangar burns up and burns yourairplane, you know if you have
whole coverage on the insurancepolicy, there's going to be
coverage for the aircraft.
If you have pilot trainingrequirements, usually it will
stipulate um, these are the fivehours or 10 hours of dual you
need to, you know, completeprior to carrying passengers.
(12:02):
Um, so you're covered whileyou're training, while you're
completing those five or 10hours dual, something happens to
your plane, you know there's,there's coverage there, as long
as you don't carry passengersbefore you've completed that
training coverage there as longas you don't carry passengers
before you've completed thattraining.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
So you kind of alluded to this.
Maybe it's similar to cars, soyou can ensure the whole value
of the aircraft.
And then there's also othercoverages that include.
So can you walk us through someof the coverages, or basic
coverages, that people need tothink about?
And brokers, you know.
Frankly, you know part of thisconversation is hey, if you're a
broker, you want to beknowledgeable about this stuff
(12:41):
so you can advise your clients.
Hey, we need to talk to aninsurance broker because of A, b
and C.
So what are some of thecoverages that people typically
look at when they're looking ataviation insurance?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely, so the base coverage is liability
coverage insurance, absolutelyso.
The base coverage is liabilitycoverage.
And as soon as you become anaircraft owner, your legal
liability risk increases becauseyou're the owner of an aircraft
that can damage, hurt somebody.
Your liability exposureincreases and so that's the base
(13:14):
coverage on every aircraftinsurance policy is liability
coverage.
It's also the most inexpensivepart of the policy.
I mean, you're looking at acouple hundred bucks for a 172
for the whole year of liabilitycoverage.
And liability coverage protectsyou, the aircraft owner, from
any property or personal damagethat your aircraft causes.
(13:37):
So if you're taxing, you hitsomebody, hit a car.
You know all that kind of stuff.
If you have passengers in theaircraft, there's a sublimit for
passengers in the aircraft andthat's the base coverage is
liability coverage.
Definitely, if you own anairplane, you really need
liability coverage.
You can't control a lot ofthings.
(13:59):
You can't control weather, youcan't control what happens at
the airport and if somethingdoes happen, you want that.
Usually a million dollars inliability coverage ready to go
to protect you Because, as youknow, today everybody's too
happy, especially with peoplethat own an airplane.
Something happens, everybody'sgoing to sue everybody.
You want that liabilitycoverage.
So that's the base coverage.
Ninety five percent of ourcustomers have one million
(14:25):
dollars in liability coverageand that's limited to one
hundred thousand per passenger.
And, briefly, how that works islet's say you own a 172, you
have two passengers in theaircraft.
Something happens.
Both passengers are, you know,significantly injured.
You have up to 100,000 for eachof those passengers for any
(14:49):
legal liabilities that you knowthat they come after you for,
okay.
So let's say 200,000, 100,000each passenger.
Out of your million dollars,you now have $800,000 left for
any damage.
We call it outside of theaircraft.
So if you, you know, god forbidhit a house or another hangar,
car or something that's howthat's how it works.
(15:10):
There's usually no passenger orthere's no coverage for crew.
So you, as the aircraft ownerand the pilot, you're a crew.
There's no insurance coveragefor you.
That's pilot life insurance.
That's a.
That's a different thing fromthe policies that we offer.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So, so if, if I didn't know any better as an
owner or as a broker, and theowner just gets liability
coverage, I would have thoughtthat the pilot and the co-pilot
were covered and you're tellingme, no, there needs to be
another product, maybe a rideror something that would go on in
addition to that policy.
(15:45):
Correct, interesting, okay,okay, gotcha, okay, so we're
looking at.
I'm kind of curious and okay,so we're looking at.
I'm kind of curious.
Do you have any examples or anystories about where the
aviation insurance saved the dayor would have saved the day if
(16:06):
it were there, in yourexperience with these pilots and
with these owners For legalliability yeah, legal liability,
or just kind of?
In general, I'm kind of curious, just some of the stories that
you've seen over the years ofwhy aviation insurance is
important, you know, because Ithink that's that always kind of
brings it to light.
(16:27):
Like, for example, like Iremember I heard a story of a.
It was an owner with his CFIand you know they were at the
airport and you know the CFI,they were 2A guys and you know
the CFI was showing him hisconcealed carry for the day and
(16:50):
you know, as he goes to clearsit.
He figures everything is goodto go and part of his clearing
process was to actually pull thetrigger to make sure that
there's nothing in there.
And so in doing so, believe itor not, there was something in
there.
And so all of a sudden, therethere's a, there's a puncture in
the, in the, in the bottom halfof of the little uh of the
(17:13):
aircraft, and, um, I mean, theyI don't think they ended up
reporting, I think they justkind of patched it up and it was
fine, it was no big deal.
But you know things like thatyou just never know what's going
to happen around planes is kindof my point.
And so you want to have thecoverage so that if something
much worse like what if you knowthe discharge had gone and hurt
(17:33):
somebody, or what if it didn'thit in a safe spot and it hit in
the fuel tank and that was aproblem, and now that you got a
fuel leak, all that kind ofstuff it's the importance of not
just I don't even know ifaviation insurance would have
necessarily covered that.
You know, because you need towork with a professional to know
, like we said, the pilots is anadditional rider Maybe.
(17:53):
Maybe certain situations areadditional coverages that people
think that they just check thebox of yep, I've got insurance
and now I'm good to go.
But they forget.
These companies write thepolicies in such a way that,
unless you're very specific,they're they're not going to
just like wave a magic wand andcover you for anything.
I mean, they write the policiesin a way that you know will
(18:15):
cover you, but there's somequalifiers there.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
Thanks for bringing that up.
I think there's a there's alack of information, knowledge
about aircraft insurance thewhole in the whole United States
, and I'd love to clear some ofthat up.
So a couple of things.
We talked about the firstcoverage, liability coverage.
Definitely you're an aircraftowner, protect your liability
exposure with that basic policy.
(18:40):
The second coverage on a policyis physical damage coverage for
the aircraft itself, damagecoverage for the aircraft itself
.
So if you're, if your Cessna150 is worth 50,000, you should
have, in my opinion, $50,000 inphysical damage coverage on the
aircraft.
(19:02):
This is different than carinsurance.
Car insurance, auto insuranceis based off of appreciation and
and and value depreciation.
Aircraft insurance is based onagreed value.
So there's no, there's nodepreciation.
It's the one made one of thebiggest differences between auto
insurance and aircraftinsurance.
So you buy one 50, you knowit's.
You think it's worth 50,000.
You come to me hey, matt, I'dlike a quote for 50,000 whole
(19:24):
coverage.
I shopped the market.
I get you a quote Once, theinsurance once.
I send your information out tothe insurance company and they
send back a quote that says$50,000, here's a quote for
$50,000 whole coverage.
They're agreeing with me andyou that the $150,000 is worth
$50,000.
So they give us a quote, we buythe policy.
If your CESTA 150 burns down inthe hangar or if you crash land
(19:49):
and it's a complete loss,they're going to take a check of
$50,000 and send you exactlywhat the value was less any
deductibles.
So there's no.
What is it worth now?
What are the avionics worth?
It's agreed value, insured forthat, and that's what you get if
there, if there's a total loss,that's what you get if there's
a total loss.
So those are the primary twocoverages and the accents and
(20:11):
the claims and how insuranceplays into it.
It's wild, it's actually it'sreally.
So there's, you know and this iswhat I'd love to get this out
to so many people the insurancecompany that you're with.
There's about 24 insurancecompanies that insure airplanes.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, not a lot Compared to cars.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
any idea how many car insurance companies there are
Hundreds, and hundreds of carinsurance companies, only 23 or
24 of them will insure airplanesand each of those companies is
different.
So when you buy an insurancepolicy, you need to know you
know the history on theinsurance company.
The first, the most importantthing, is the history on the
(20:55):
insurance company.
What does the policy look like?
How's the policy worded?
How strong is that policy inyour favor if you have an
accident?
And then the third one iseverybody you know doesn't
understand this or messes thisup.
A lot is building a multi-yearrelationship with that insurance
company.
People that I think shop aroundevery year to save $100, $150
(21:17):
and they move to a differentinsurance company.
They're messing, they'reruining that opportunity to
build a multi-year relationshipwith that company.
And I had an accident in Alaskaa couple of years ago.
One of our customers and he hada 185 and he decided to put
skis on the aircraft and didn'tlet us know that he put skis on
(21:42):
the aircraft.
He didn't let the insurancecompany know that he had skis
and this was a $275,000, uh,cessna 185 and landing and
landing on skis and one of theski gear breaks on landing was
not, was not pilot error, thatwas equipment malfunction, ski
breaks, prop strike aircrafttumbles, complete aircraft
(22:05):
275,000.
Calls me.
We look at the policy and hesays yeah, I was landing on skis
and I said we're covered forwheels.
On this pause there's, we didn'tadd skis coverage.
And he goes I didn't know, Ineeded to add, you know, skis
coverage, you know on acompletely honest mistake.
So we turn the claim into theinsurance company.
And this is where the insurancecompany matters and your
(22:26):
relationship, your long-termrelationship with that company
matters.
Turn the claim into theinsurance company.
Insurance company says we'regoing to deny the claim.
We, you know, we, we, thisaircraft's not covered for skis.
So I call the underwriter and Isay I know you guys, you know,
aren't obligated to cover this.
However, this customer has beenwith you for seven years.
(22:47):
Great paying customer, builtthat relationship, never had a
claim until today.
Is there anything we can do?
Underwriter looks at the policyyeah, he's been with us seven
years.
You know what?
We're going to make anexception.
We're going to cover this.
It was an honest mistake.
He forgot to add a skiscoverage.
That's the difference betweenzero coverage and $275,000 in
(23:08):
aircraft coverage.
So you know I like that examplethat illustrates, you know, the
power of having a relationshipand being with a very good
aviation insurance company.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, that's a great insurance carrier, but it's also
a great broker to advocate onyour behalf.
Because, at the end of the day,you as an owner like you're the
aircraft owner like you don'tget to talk to mr underwriter
and plead your case, right, okay, only the brokers do that.
And and so having a goodrelationship with your broker
(23:40):
that makes them want to go tobat for you, like that's really
important, and the more of arelationship you have, the more
that they can go to bat for you.
I mean that's also a testamentto, I think, how well like you
guys conduct your business asbrokers on behalf of your
clients.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and I think that's why, um, you know, if you
want an airplane, you want tobe insured with a broker that
specializes only in aviation.
There's a lot of you know, theydo auto and they do home and
they also do aviation.
Well, if you, you know, youcall me.
Hey, I need an insurance policy.
I might want $275,000, 185, asthey're getting that initial
information from you what's yourpilot information with your
(24:18):
qualifications, what you know,what type of aircraft?
Whatever, if they forget to askyou hey, um, is this aircraft
ever on skis?
These little tiny you wouldnever think to ask is that
aircraft on skis?
And if that's a yes or no, ifthat's a yes, out of the 22
aviation insurance companies,maybe only six will cover if the
(24:41):
aircraft's on skis, and inthose six companies they're all
different.
So some of those companies willautomatically cover skis.
Some of those companies willonly cover skis if you change
and endorse the policy to addskis coverage.
So it's not like just takingthe data and the aircraft,
sending it out and getting aquote.
There's so much specialknowledge you need to know with
(25:05):
individual airplanes, individualinsurance companies and how
that all plays out to recommendthe best insurance policy.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That's a lot.
Um, this might be a littletangential, but is there some
kind of a software or a systemthat you got, a tool that you
guys can use to make it easierfor yourselves, um, as brokers,
to find the right coverage andask the right questions for your
clients?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
So, yeah, we have.
So we have two, two pieces ofsoftware.
It's it really comes down to, Ithink, learning in the industry
and having years of experience.
And that's why you know yourquestion how do you get into the
industry?
Well, that, I think that's stepone getting into the industry.
But step two is like, as you,as you work with different types
of aircraft and differentinsurance companies and
(25:49):
different pilots for two, three,four, five years, 10 years, you
start.
You just start learning allthese, all these little nuances.
Some of them are you makemistakes, others can be taught.
You go through the courses andall that.
But that's the real value ofhaving somebody with experience
in the industry.
And actually that's kind of howour pay scale is set up for our
(26:13):
employees.
Like year one, when we have anew hire, that's learning from
us.
You're learning all thesenuances and different things
about insurance.
Our base salaries are prettylow, but year two, three, four
and five, they ramp updramatically because you're
learning so much knowledge aboutthe industry and you're so much
(26:34):
more valuable, not only to usbut to our customers when they
call and talk to you.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, well, I got to say your insurance brokers I've
had the pleasure to work withthem directly are I've had the
pleasure to work with themdirectly and if I had to imagine
, based on what you just said,jackie's a millionaire she must
have skyrocketed way up there.
We'll make sure she hears thispart of the video.
(27:00):
It's the value for sure.
So, first of all, matt, Iappreciate all of nuances and
the info that you shed light onfor buyers, for guys who want to
own an aircraft and need to bethinking about things, about
insurance.
I think you broke it downreally, really well the fact
that you're going to haveliability.
You're also going to haveproperty coverage.
(27:23):
You also talked about the factof how important there's only 24
carriers and so don't just goshopping around, even brokers.
It's not healthy to go shoppingaround because, at the end of
the day, there's only 24.
Once you quote somebody,another broker is not really
going to get much of a betterquote for you, unless they maybe
ask different questions.
But that's the great thingabout starting with you guys
(27:44):
that know what you're doing isthat you know that you're asking
the right questions to get thebest price.
So if they quote, if you get aquote, you know, and maybe they
don't like they go somewhereelse and like, oh look, this
policy is, like you know, athousand dollars cheaper.
It's like, well, look at thequestions.
You know, did they?
Um, you know, did they ask theright questions?
Do you have any advice forpeople that it would just be
common, kind of common for themto shop around with, uh,
(28:04):
different, different brokers?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I do and I made a quick YouTube video about how to
shop for aircraft insurance theright way.
And it's really not theaircraft owner's fault because
we're inundated with carinsurance commercials, with
GEICO and auto insurance shopeverywhere.
Give us a call, we'll goeverywhere and people take that
train of thought when they'reshopping for aircraft insurance.
(28:27):
And you almost couldn't mess itup any more than that.
As soon as like if you call onebroker, they're going to shop.
You know all 24 insurancecompanies.
If you get another brokerinvolved, it's going to mess up
the entire process.
It happens all the time and it'sa communication disconnect
between you know aircraft ownerslooking to get a simple
(28:50):
insurance policy and how theindustry operates.
The industry super smallindustry.
There's not enough underwritersto go around.
The underwriters areoverwhelmed if they're working
on a quote for BWI and anotherbroker gets the same tail number
and shops it to them andanother broker gets the same
tail number by the second orthird broker, they're just like.
I'm not even going to quotethis, I don't have enough time.
(29:12):
I'm seeing they're shoppingaround everywhere I'm out.
I'm not going to quote this,let's move on to somebody else.
So I think that's one of thebiggest misconceptions is shop
around.
If you hire a broker likemyself or one of our competitors
, it's their job to shop aroundfor you.
It's not like you call anotherbroker.
You're not shopping around anyother new companies.
(29:35):
The only company that'sdifferent than from what we do
is a Vemco.
A Vemco is its own you knowinsurance company and they have
very specific makes and modelsthat they like to insure.
Any other you know aircraftinsurance broker is going to
shop you with the same 22, 24insurance companies.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Gotcha, that's a great piece of advice.
I appreciate that.
Well, let's pivot for a secondbecause, like I said, I do have
firsthand working with you guysand the reason I was working
with not so much for aircraftownership was as a broker.
You know's, there'sprofessional liability that
comes with being an aircraftbroker.
Like you said, people like tosue for all kinds of reasons and
, you know, even despite ourbest efforts, there may be
(30:16):
opportunities where, or theremay be times where, we find
ourselves, um, you know, our,our actions or our decisions
called into question, and you,yeah, insurance coverage is
important.
So can you talk to us a littleabout professional liability,
errors and omissions?
I'm just going to throw a bunchof buzzwords so people think I
know what I'm talking about andmaybe you can explain it to us
(30:37):
and why it would be importantfor brokers to have some an
aviation professional servicesliability insurance policy.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So it's a liability policy specific to aviation
businesses and you can getcoverage.
Typically, I recommend at leasta million dollars in liability
coverage on one of thesepolicies.
They go all the way up to fiveor $10 million liability and
these's a lot that can go wrongand a lot of stuff that's
(31:35):
unintentional on your side.
But a paper wasn't checked, afield wasn't checked, something
happened and that's what thosepolicies are designed to protect
your business for.
So I definitely recommendeverybody should carry an
aviation professional liabilityinsurance policy.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Absolutely so.
Is that something where, when Ifirst start out, I should get
an insurance policy as a broker?
Or is that something that maybethe insurance carriers want to
see, proof that you've beendoing this a little while and
they won't even cover you whenyou first start out, because
obviously, when you're firststarting out, you could be a
really big risk for the carrier?
(32:17):
So how, how do carriers kind ofsee it, and when's the right
time?
When do you know is the righttime to get the coverage?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, so.
So I personally recommend Iwouldn't sell an airplane until
I had some type of professionalaviation professional liability
insurance policy myself.
You brought up a great pointthat the two data points that
companies look at when they'requoting these type of policies
is A how much experience do youhave, does your company have, in
(32:46):
selling airplanes?
And then the second part iswhat kind of revenue, what kind
of you know?
How many are you doing a month?
How much are you doing a year?
And I guess the third thing iswhat is your sales process?
Have you thought about reducingrisk?
Have you thought about how tomitigate all these errors and
(33:07):
emissions?
And that's why you know.
You go back to point one, likehow long you've been doing this?
Well, as you've been doing thisfor years and years and years.
You start, you make mistakes,just like we do on aviation
insurance.
You make mistakes and you learnand you get that industry
knowledge and that is valuableto the insurance companies and
you'll get a lower rate the moreinsurance you have or the more
experience you have.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
That makes sense.
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, listen, matt.
This has been a greatconversation.
I really do appreciate yourtime, energy and effort to be
here.
If people want to get moreinformation, whether it's
aircraft owners that are lookingfor a quote or brokers that are
looking for a quote onprofessional liability where can
people contact you at?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Absolutely.
Visit our website, bwiflyflycom, or you can email me directly,
matt.
At BWIFlycom, our website, youcan get a quote.
There's tons of blogs, articlesand, of course, email me
directly and be happy to helpyou out and be happy to help you
out.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Very cool.
And also, I would encourage youguys to check out Matt on
YouTube BWI Fly Live Greatresource there, similar to the
information that he's posted,but a lot more as well.
So, once again, matt, thanks somuch for being here and we'll
catch you later.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Awesome, tom.
Thanks again, take care.
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