November 1, 2024 • 21 mins
Today, we break down the differences between general aviation (GA) and business aviation, examining turboprops versus jets, and light, mid-size, and heavy jets. From cost considerations to unique features, we share invaluable insights into deciding which segment of the market is best for you!
Episode Highlights:
•🏢 Market Types:
🌍 General Aviation (GA): High-volume, single-piston sales to owner-operators.
💼 Business Aviation: TurboProps, light, mid, and heavy jets for high-end buyers.
•⚖️ TurboProps vs. Jets Performance:
🚁 TurboProps: Cost-effective, higher weight capacity, lower altitude (typically)
🚀 Jets: Faster, higher altitude, longer range, higher maintenance (typically)
•🧭 Selecting a Jet Niche:
Consider light, mid, or heavy jets based on buyer type and transaction complexity.
•🔍 Transaction Complexity:
💵 Budget jets: Fewer stakeholders, simpler deals.
🛠️ High-end jets: Complex, with pilots, legal, and CPA involvement.
•🔎 Market Research Tips:
Use Controller to check jet inventory, demand, and pricing.
Track data (year, serial, price) to help with valuations.
View on YouTube for a visual companion: https://youtu.be/YZcF1FuL1tM
🤝 Join our FREE Private Online Community for aspiring Jet Brokers: https://circle.jetlifeaero.com
✈️ For more BizAv news delivered directly to you via text: https://cristobal.ai/
Being a Private Jet Broker is a life changing opportunity for those seeking a career in an industry that has low competition and extremely high commissions.
Let's book a call so you can discover how to get your FIRST SALE and start a new career in Aviation - https://www.theultimatejetguide.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, when you're looking at turboprops versus
jets, the nice thing about theturboprops is that a lot of them
, again, are going to beowner-operator.
There are turboprops that costmore than private jets, so don't
think that like, oh, I need tosell jets because I need to make
big money.
Turboprops can be even moreexpensive than private jets.
Hello and welcome everybody tothe Jet Life Podcast.
(00:23):
My name is Tom Lelio.
I'm your ultimate jet guy.
Today we're pulling back thecurtain on aviation to decide
what market that you're going tobe selling in, and we're going
to get right into it.
But if you have any questions,go ahead and put them in the
comments below.
Welcome to our YouTube family,our Facebook family, linkedin.
Y'all are here.
We really appreciate you beinghere today.
It's going to be a quick one,but we want to get started right
(00:44):
away.
So when we're talking aboutwhat kind of market that we're
going to get in first thing,we're going to start at the top
of the funnel.
We have to decide are we goingGA versus business?
Okay, so you're going to askyourself are you a general
aviation person or are youbusiness aviation?
Now there's also commercialaviation, where you're selling
737s and air buses and things ofthat nature.
(01:06):
But really we're going to gobetween GA and business, and
general aviation is going to bemostly your single pistons,
maybe you get into turboprops,but mostly it's owner operators
and you can make a good living.
You know, selling 172s, 182s,pipers, diamonds, I mean there's
just a lot of volume that canbe done in the general aviation
(01:30):
world.
It's what you see when you goto Sun and Fun, when you go to
Oshkosh.
You know all the EAA stuff andyou can make a good living.
Shout out to my buddy at McGillAviation, ryan McGill.
He's on TikTok if you want tofind a plane.
I got to meet with him in Sunand Fun and so you know GA can
be a great place to be in.
Next you want to look atbusiness aviation.
(01:51):
Now we're getting into theturboprops, we're getting into
the light jets, the midsize jets, the heavy jets, and business
aviation is where you're goingto kind of shift and look at
MBAA, the National BusinessAviation Association, as opposed
to like an AOPA kind of a thing.
And let me oh, I apologize, letme go full screen here for you
guys, sorry about that.
So, yeah, so we're looking atbusiness aviation is going to be
(02:17):
light jets, turboprops.
Usually things are going to behalf a million dollars or more
all the way up to, you know, 10,$20 million if you're looking
at the super, super heavy jets,things that, like Steve Arsano
and the jet business, areslinging, so check him out.
If you're also looking to be abroker and so, whether you're a
buyer or broker, we're here tohelp you buy or sell without
wasting time or losing money.
So, ga versus business, we're,for the purposes of today, we're
(02:39):
going to go into business Okay.
So we're going to choosebusiness.
Now we got to get into.
Do we want to do turbopropsversus jets?
Okay.
Now, when you're looking atturboprops versus jets, the nice
thing about the turboprops isthat a lot of them, again, are
going to be owner operator anddon't.
There are turboprops that costmore than private jets.
(03:01):
So don't think that like, oh, Ineed to sell jets because I
need to make big money.
Turboprops can be even moreexpensive than private jets, for
example.
What's really interesting?
If you had like a $3 millionbudget, okay, you can get a
newer, nicer, like aestheticallynicer, newer aircraft, a better
you know better one in theturboprop category, versus $3
(03:22):
million jet.
A $3 million jet is going to beolder than the turboprop, it's
going to be less fuel efficient,but it also might be more
capable.
And so you really have to askyour question like do I want to
do turboprops or jets?
Here's the thing Jets are forindividuals that need the
performance of a jet, becausethe jets will go faster, they go
(03:44):
higher and, in most cases,further when you get into the
midsize and the heavies.
So we want to keep an eye outfor that.
But good morning, good morning,what's up Tony, what's up Ryan?
So the jets are going to be.
Usually they're going to befaster.
We're talking from like 200 to300 knots in the turboprops to
300 to 400 knots in the jets.
(04:04):
We're talking they're going togo higher, they're going to go
above the weather.
So a lot of the weather isgoing to be at you know, 18 to
28,000 feet.
That's kind of where theturboprops, you know kind of max
out at.
The jets are going to get abovethe weather.
Okay, but it's going to costyou more in in fuel and
performance to get to get higher.
And they're also probably goingto go further, especially if
you're looking at mid-size andheavy jets.
(04:27):
These jets are going to go upand down East Coast, across the
country, that sort of thing.
But all of this comes at a cost.
So the turboprop is going to bemore cost-effective.
It's going to be lessmaintenance there's less stuff
going on in there.
It also may be more useful, andwhat we mean by useful is that
(04:52):
when it comes to the turboprop,you can usually load those up a
little bit more than you can aprivate jet.
So if your mission relies onyou taking a lot of stuff and
people, then you might want aturboprop.
If you don't need the speed, ifyou don't need to go above the
weather, you just go around theweather.
And if you don't need to go avery, very long distance and
(05:12):
even some of the turboprops havea good distance on them but if
you don't need this section,well then a jet makes more sense
, I'm sorry then a turbopropmakes more sense if you don't
need this stuff.
So as a broker, you got to askyourself like well, do you want
to deal with the guys that arelooking for this, or do you want
to deal with the guys that arelooking for this?
These guys, the turboprop guys,are more owner operator,
they're more down to earth,they're more like really
(05:33):
invested in their aircraftbecause it's their personal
thing, or you're dealing with acharter company that that's
using them.
These jets, they may be owneroperators, but they're usually
guys that are just kind of in adifferent worldview, different
mentality than the turbopropguys.
So you've gone from generalaviation, you've chosen business
jets, you've gone fromturboprops versus jets and then
(05:55):
you've chosen jets.
Okay.
So now we're in the businessjets and now we're going to look
at light versus mid versusheavy.
Yes, I know there's anothercategory, the supers, but we're
just gonna go light, mid orheavy.
So this is again we're whittlingdown what we're looking at in
terms of you know, what do wewant to sell in the light jet
(06:17):
category you're looking at?
So here's the question we'regonna look at how far, how many
people let's just stick withthat how far you're going to go
and how many people you're goingto have.
So, how far you're going to gowith the light jets.
You're going to go roughly athousand nautical miles.
In the mids you're going to beI'll be conservative and say
(06:38):
1400 nautical miles, and thenyour heavies are going to be,
you know, 2200 plus.
Then your heavies are going tobe, you know, 2,200 plus.
Okay, passengers in the lightjet category are going to be
four to six, mids are going tobe six to eight, and now we're
going to be eight to 12 or morein the heavy jets.
Okay, so, with this knowledge,okay, who do you want to work
(06:58):
with?
You also want to think aboutwhat it's going to take in terms
of getting the deal across theline.
When you're dealing with alight jet, by nature there's
less stuff to break, there'sless of a big, there's less of a
thing to inspect.
So your maintenance and yourpre-buy stuff in a light jet is
going to be less involved thanwith a heavy jet.
You know, a heavy jet is goingto have a lot of components that
(07:21):
you're going to want to knowabout.
They're going to have this isusually going to heavy jets
going to come with programs thatyou're going to have to know
about.
There are going to be twopilots that you're going to have
to worry about their training.
There's going to be, probablyoperators involved.
You know, and and just just togive you an idea, the the, the
starting out point in terms ofbudget.
(07:42):
Okay, with a light jet we'regoing to be between 500K yeah,
around 500K to a million to kindof get started.
For half a million dollars wecan find an old citation that's
flyable, that's not just junk.
In the midsize jet we want tobe in the 2 million to 4 million
(08:02):
starter range and the heavyjets we want I'll say 6 slash 8
million to 10 million to get ourfirst jet.
That's going to be heavy.
So just by their nature, themarkets that you're dealing in
are going to be, I don't want tosay, easier because it's a
lower price point, but you justgot to think about, like, well,
(08:24):
the individual who's spending amillion dollars on a jet versus
the individual who's spending$10 million on jet.
These deals are going to bemore complicated.
They're going to involve morepeople.
They're going to involve flightdepartments, they're going to
involve pilots, they're going toinvolve lawyers, they're going
to involve CPAs and it's just,it's a big production that we're
, that we're getting into.
(08:44):
When we're starting going here,versus in a light jet, you
probably have an owner, operator, or maybe you have an owner and
a pilot, maybe there's amechanic.
That's like a one man shop orfour people shop, like the heavy
jets, like you're taking it toa service center and doing a
whole bunch of you know,inspections to it.
The lights can be a little bitsimpler, and then when we talk
about you know if, okay, or ahigher than 4 million, or higher
(09:11):
than 10.
Now we're getting into thelevels of the vintage.
So let's, I'll stop here for asecond.
We've picked business aviationversus general aviation.
We've chosen that we're goingto do jets instead of turboprops
Okay.
Now we're going to do light,mid or heavy Okay, for the sake
of argument, I'm going to gowith light, because that's kind
of where I like to be and havefound success in.
(09:34):
Now that we've chosen light,now we're going to choose how
expensive what's our budgetgoing to be in the light jets?
And the reason that we're doingthis is because the higher
budget stuff is not necessarilygoing to get you more commission
(09:55):
, and it's also could be.
It's going to be a telltalesign of how hard it's going to
be to call on these owners.
If you're calling on somebodywho can afford a half a million
dollar jet versus a $5 millionjet, those are two different
conversations and there'sprobably going to be a lot more
gatekeepers to get here.
Now you can swing for this andmaybe make a better commission
or have an easier sales process,cause I will tell you, when
you're dealing down here it'slike being a used car salesman.
(10:17):
You just like in some ways youdon't know what you're getting
yourself into and there's allthese surprises of old liens,
maintenance that wasn't takencare of, and just you have a
whole slew of differentcharacters that when you get to
a higher vintage or a higherlevel of jet sales it's a little
bit smoother but it's alsoharder to get into.
So you know it's risk versusreward.
So lower risk, lower reward.
(10:38):
Higher risk, higher reward.
You know that's kind of.
I would just encourage you tokind of pick which you want to
start and I would start out inthe middle here trying to list
something that's in the middle.
So if we're talking about amillion dollars and $5 million
like some of here is like $2million.
(11:00):
So I'm going to start here withthe idea of if I understand the
middle market, then if I needto, I can go down a market, and
now I have all this experienceup here.
So if I start in the $2 millionrange with, let's say, a
citation 560, if I need to, Ican drop down into a 501 or a
550 market because these guysare probably going to want to
(11:23):
upgrade to a 560.
Okay, and then I can also, oneday I'll get into the encores
these guys are going to want.
These guys, the 501s, 550s aregoing to want to get into a 560.
So if I've already calledthrough the 560 market, I know
the market, I know what theseplanes entail.
When I talk to the guys downhere, I can talk to them and I
(11:45):
can encourage them.
Yeah, man, you know the fivemarkets currently doing this.
And oh, don't you love theupgrade on the on the JT15D-5
engines, like it's a lot betterthrust than on the dash fours
and it's got the unconditionedblades, so you don't have to
worry about that.
And now I can have aconversation with the things
that they want, okay, so I startin the middle.
So we're business jet, businessjet, light jet.
(12:08):
And then I'm in the middle.
I'm not the most expensivelight jet, I'm not the most
expensive light jet, I'm not.
I'm not doing the, the, the,the bottom of the barrel light
jets.
Yet If I don't find successhere, I can come down here if I
need to, right?
So now we're in the middle ofthe and now we got to pick.
Now we got to pick a, a make,make and model.
Okay.
So now we got to choose.
(12:28):
You know what kind ofmanufacturer are we looking at?
You know, one of the biggestones is obviously Textron.
You know, they took.
They took Cessna and Beechcraft.
Okay, so your Hawkers and yourcitations, like that's kind of
where we're at in here.
You've also got Lear is a bigone.
Okay, not really supportedanymore, but that's, that's a
(12:49):
common one.
You've got Bombardier that's,that's a common one.
Uh, you've got bombardier most,but they're not really in the
light jet category.
Uh, you've got embryo air andthat's.
You're looking at your phenoms.
Uh, beachcraft.
You also got your premieres.
Uh, you've got your honda jet.
You got eclipse.
Oh, how do I pick?
How do I pick and make a model?
Well, we're going to go intothis and we're going to check
(13:10):
out on controller and see what'savailable.
You know, aviation aircraftsales is a popularity contest.
If there's a ton of somethingon sale, it probably means that
there's a ton of people thatwant to buy it.
Or when you look closely, itmight be because it's a fire
sale, nobody wants it anymore.
But we're going to take a lookat it and see.
You know how do we pick a makeand model.
So and this is like Ford islike Chevy, you know it's like
(13:31):
Chevy, you know it's you pick ateam and then you just pick a
team and then you look at thecompetitors and compare them to
a team.
It's easier to pick a team andthen compare things around it as
opposed to like, ok, I'll lookat the Cessnas and the Lears and
the Phenoms and like, try tocompare all three at once, pick
a team and then kind of comparethem.
So it's a bit easier for you toorganize the information.
So again for us, we're going togo with the Textron, we're going
(13:53):
to go with the Cessna, we'regoing to go with the Citation
line, okay.
And then we're going to look atit and there's different makes
and models.
We're going for the light jet,so you might be at the 560, but
within the 560, you've got thestraight 560.
(14:14):
You've got the ultra, which isa little bit newer.
You got the encore.
So within your make and modelyou'll have different years or
different models.
I guess, if you will, and soyou just learn the basics on
these, we go through it, we goto and I'll show you exactly how
we're going to do that on thescreen right now.
But this is how we break downfrom the very top of, how we
(14:36):
figure out the make and model.
If you have questions, go aheadand put them in the comments
below.
But just to kind of go over thisone more time general aviation
versus business aviation.
We chose business.
Turbo products versus jets.
We went to jets Light, mid andheavy.
We went with the light jets.
Uh, light, mid and heavy.
(14:56):
We went with the light jets.
Um price point, we went withthe middle range of of of the of
the light jets that we're goingto be looking at.
So we're in like the twomillion dollar range, so that
this is going to directly impactthe make and model, because now
we're Maybe a Phenom 100, aCitation Jet, not quite the
(15:18):
Honda.
The Honda is going to be alittle at the top of it, but we
can look at it.
We're looking at Premieres,okay.
So now that I know my price, mylight jets, in this price point
you know around $2 million nowI can pick the make and model.
Then, once I pick the make andmodel, let's say I went with a
Citation Jet.
Now I can pick a CJ, cj1, cj1Plus and just find out more
(15:41):
about that.
So again, if you've got anyquestions, let me know.
But let's go ahead and switch.
We're going to go into thescreen, all right.
So here we are in controller.
Yeah, the Falcons, that's right.
That's right.
Hey, ian, what's up, frank?
So okay, so we're in controller.
We've decided we're going to gowith the jet aircraft.
So click on jet aircraft, let'ssee what we got here.
(16:03):
Okay, so now we're going to goto the category.
I guess we already did jetcraft, so we're good there.
Next we'll go to themanufacturer.
We decided we're going to gowith Cessna.
But even just right here, lookat the manufacturer.
On the light jet category,there's 342 light jets by Cessna
for sale.
There's 200 from Gulfstream,151 from Bombardier, 129 from
(16:26):
Dassault, 98 from Lear, 85 fromHawker, 63 from Embraer, which
is the Phenoms, and the Praters,beechcraft 36, boeing 32, and
Sears 30.
So these are the popular ones.
So if I'm thinking aboutgetting into the jet market, I
(16:47):
want to know what the popularjets are, all right.
So let's explore.
Let's just do the Cessnas, allright.
Then we go to select models.
Citations there's fourlongitudes 750s, 19, 26, 16, 61.
Whoa, what's going on here?
Citation 560s oh wow, there's alot of these.
It's including the XLS.
(17:08):
These are midsize, so that'sgoing to impact the numbers.
550s.
There's 53 there.
525 is 112.
So you can get a picture now,right, we're getting a picture
of what's popular.
So we've decided on businessjets and now by using controller
, we can see it's a popularitycontest.
A lot of 550s here.
A lot of them are citation twos.
(17:31):
Maybe that means it's a popularmodel.
We'd have to look and see likeare things actually selling or
is this like a fire salesituation, or is there just a
lot of them?
I'll tell you, there's like 400plus 550s in the world, so
there's just a lot of them thatwere made.
So when they go for sale, thefact that there's 30 for sale,
(17:53):
that's less than 10% of thetotal fleet.
So that's about right, that'sabout average.
But what you want to worryabout is if you saw like a
hundred of them for sale whereit's 25% for sound, then it's
like, okay, that's a bad marketto be in.
So you know, we're looking inhere and let's take a look at
the citation.
Let's go with this CJ.
So the citation jet right here,18.
So the 525 citation jet.
I know that that's in the 1million to $2 million category.
(18:13):
So that's why I'm going to lookat that.
Maybe I'll look at the Mustangstoo.
Okay, apply, filter and close.
And now we start looking atthem.
Okay, 1.5 for CJ.
Here's a Mustang, cj is 1.7,1.7.
Okay, okay, so this might be amarket that I want to look into
(18:35):
now.
And now I have to go through thetraining I'm sorry the steps of
establishing Hold on, let meget rid of the citation check.
Let's say I pick the Mustang.
Now I need to go through allthe steps that we talked about
how to do a market valuation.
How do I go to controller?
What are the steps that I needto take?
What are the?
You know what are the stepsthat I need to take, and let me
(18:57):
see if I can pull this up.
Yep, here we go.
So this is from our, this isfrom our, our JetLife Academy.
You know what we teach you howto do a market valuation by
understanding the makes andmodels.
You know this is these are thedetails that we're going to want
to need per make and model.
And then, when we call thebrokers, we're going to want to
ask them these questions to geta real good sense of the market.
(19:17):
And we put that all into ourmarket report right here that
we're starting to build.
We get the year, the serialnumber, the registration number
and this is all the spreadsheetthat you guys can make on your
own.
There's nothing proprietaryhere.
It's just organizing it so thatyou can say what's the average
year, how many are for sale.
Organizing it so that you cansay what's the average year, how
many are for sale, what's theaverage price.
(19:38):
Okay, this is how it all flows.
And so becoming a let me justremove this here.
So so becoming a private jetbroker, I mean these are your
first steps.
We, we, we got to pick a marketfor you to be in.
You know, when you're workingwith with JetLife Arrow, we have
other tools like JetNet thatcan show you the data like
here's how many are in the fleet, here's how many are for sale.
Give you an idea of if it's abuyer or seller's market within
(19:59):
this, and then we can pick itthat way and get you prices a
little bit easier.
But if you don't have JetNet, ifyou're not working with a
broker, these are the steps thatyou need to go through to
figure out what jets orturboprops or aircraft you want
to sell.
You start with general aviationversus business and you work
your way all the way down andthen you use the data on
controller.
If I go this route, what arethe manufacturers that I can
(20:21):
look at, what are the popularmodels from these manufacturers?
And then go find out moreinformation about those makes
and models.
Use globallayercom, use VREF,use Avbuyer, use all these
resources to become moreknowledgeable about this stuff
and then start calling throughthe market.
Once you're calling through themarket, now you have a pulse
for it.
Now you can go find buyers andsellers and put them into into
(20:42):
that market and start makingdeals happen.
So this is this is the process,right?
It's not?
It's not, uh, it's not anythingsuper complicated.
It's just step by step by step.
And you know, I invite you, ifyou've been thinking about this,
you know, maybe you're in aspot where you're just not sure,
like where your career is atand you're trying to find out
more information about, you know, becoming, you know becoming a
(21:04):
jet broker.
I would encourage you to checkout our circle community.
So I would encourage you tojoin the circle community, go to
circlejetlifeaerocom and therewe've got a discussion board
where you can ask questions.
But here's the deal.
You know, if you're thinkingabout getting into aircraft
sales, I'd love to help you andwe have a free resource for you
in the Circle community.
It also includes a freetraining.
(21:25):
We've also got courses in thereand you know I want to show you
how.
You know I went from zero to asix-figure year, my first year,
and then just kind of multiplythat out as I continued, and I'd
love an opportunity to workwith you and talk to you more.
So join the circle community.
We'll be back next week, youknow, on a let's see.
Thank you so much for, for, forjoining us today and we'll,
(21:47):
we'll, we'll catch you guyslater.
Now, when you're looking at turboprops versus
jets, the nice thing about theturboprops is that a lot of them
, again, are going to beowner-operator.
There are turboprops that costmore than private jets, so don't
think that like, oh, I need tosell jets because I need to make
big money.
Turboprops can be even moreexpensive than private jets.
Hello and welcome everybody tothe Jet Life Podcast.
(00:23):
My name is Tom Lelio.
I'm your ultimate jet guy.
Today we're pulling back thecurtain on aviation to decide
what market that you're going tobe selling in, and we're going
to get right into it.
But if you have any questions,go ahead and put them in the
comments below.
Welcome to our YouTube family,our Facebook family, linkedin.
Y'all are here.
We really appreciate you beinghere today.
It's going to be a quick one,but we want to get started right
(00:44):
away.
So when we're talking aboutwhat kind of market that we're
going to get in first thing,we're going to start at the top
of the funnel.
We have to decide are we goingGA versus business?
Okay, so you're going to askyourself are you a general
aviation person or are youbusiness aviation?
Now there's also commercialaviation, where you're selling
737s and air buses and things ofthat nature.
(01:06):
But really we're going to gobetween GA and business, and
general aviation is going to bemostly your single pistons,
maybe you get into turboprops,but mostly it's owner operators
and you can make a good living.
You know, selling 172s, 182s,pipers, diamonds, I mean there's
just a lot of volume that canbe done in the general aviation
(01:30):
world.
It's what you see when you goto Sun and Fun, when you go to
Oshkosh.
You know all the EAA stuff andyou can make a good living.
Shout out to my buddy at McGillAviation, ryan McGill.
He's on TikTok if you want tofind a plane.
I got to meet with him in Sunand Fun and so you know GA can
be a great place to be in.
Next you want to look atbusiness aviation.
(01:51):
Now we're getting into theturboprops, we're getting into
the light jets, the midsize jets, the heavy jets, and business
aviation is where you're goingto kind of shift and look at
MBAA, the National BusinessAviation Association, as opposed
to like an AOPA kind of a thing.
And let me oh, I apologize, letme go full screen here for you
guys, sorry about that.
So, yeah, so we're looking atbusiness aviation is going to be
(02:17):
light jets, turboprops.
Usually things are going to behalf a million dollars or more
all the way up to, you know, 10,$20 million if you're looking
at the super, super heavy jets,things that, like Steve Arsano
and the jet business, areslinging, so check him out.
If you're also looking to be abroker and so, whether you're a
buyer or broker, we're here tohelp you buy or sell without
wasting time or losing money.
So, ga versus business, we're,for the purposes of today, we're
(02:39):
going to go into business Okay.
So we're going to choosebusiness.
Now we got to get into.
Do we want to do turbopropsversus jets?
Okay.
Now, when you're looking atturboprops versus jets, the nice
thing about the turboprops isthat a lot of them, again, are
going to be owner operator anddon't.
There are turboprops that costmore than private jets.
(03:01):
So don't think that like, oh, Ineed to sell jets because I
need to make big money.
Turboprops can be even moreexpensive than private jets, for
example.
What's really interesting?
If you had like a $3 millionbudget, okay, you can get a
newer, nicer, like aestheticallynicer, newer aircraft, a better
you know better one in theturboprop category, versus $3
(03:22):
million jet.
A $3 million jet is going to beolder than the turboprop, it's
going to be less fuel efficient,but it also might be more
capable.
And so you really have to askyour question like do I want to
do turboprops or jets?
Here's the thing Jets are forindividuals that need the
performance of a jet, becausethe jets will go faster, they go
(03:44):
higher and, in most cases,further when you get into the
midsize and the heavies.
So we want to keep an eye outfor that.
But good morning, good morning,what's up Tony, what's up Ryan?
So the jets are going to be.
Usually they're going to befaster.
We're talking from like 200 to300 knots in the turboprops to
300 to 400 knots in the jets.
(04:04):
We're talking they're going togo higher, they're going to go
above the weather.
So a lot of the weather isgoing to be at you know, 18 to
28,000 feet.
That's kind of where theturboprops, you know kind of max
out at.
The jets are going to get abovethe weather.
Okay, but it's going to costyou more in in fuel and
performance to get to get higher.
And they're also probably goingto go further, especially if
you're looking at mid-size andheavy jets.
(04:27):
These jets are going to go upand down East Coast, across the
country, that sort of thing.
But all of this comes at a cost.
So the turboprop is going to bemore cost-effective.
It's going to be lessmaintenance there's less stuff
going on in there.
It also may be more useful, andwhat we mean by useful is that
(04:52):
when it comes to the turboprop,you can usually load those up a
little bit more than you can aprivate jet.
So if your mission relies onyou taking a lot of stuff and
people, then you might want aturboprop.
If you don't need the speed, ifyou don't need to go above the
weather, you just go around theweather.
And if you don't need to go avery, very long distance and
(05:12):
even some of the turboprops havea good distance on them but if
you don't need this section,well then a jet makes more sense
, I'm sorry then a turbopropmakes more sense if you don't
need this stuff.
So as a broker, you got to askyourself like well, do you want
to deal with the guys that arelooking for this, or do you want
to deal with the guys that arelooking for this?
These guys, the turboprop guys,are more owner operator,
they're more down to earth,they're more like really
(05:33):
invested in their aircraftbecause it's their personal
thing, or you're dealing with acharter company that that's
using them.
These jets, they may be owneroperators, but they're usually
guys that are just kind of in adifferent worldview, different
mentality than the turbopropguys.
So you've gone from generalaviation, you've chosen business
jets, you've gone fromturboprops versus jets and then
(05:55):
you've chosen jets.
Okay.
So now we're in the businessjets and now we're going to look
at light versus mid versusheavy.
Yes, I know there's anothercategory, the supers, but we're
just gonna go light, mid orheavy.
So this is again we're whittlingdown what we're looking at in
terms of you know, what do wewant to sell in the light jet
(06:17):
category you're looking at?
So here's the question we'regonna look at how far, how many
people let's just stick withthat how far you're going to go
and how many people you're goingto have.
So, how far you're going to gowith the light jets.
You're going to go roughly athousand nautical miles.
In the mids you're going to beI'll be conservative and say
(06:38):
1400 nautical miles, and thenyour heavies are going to be,
you know, 2200 plus.
Then your heavies are going tobe, you know, 2,200 plus.
Okay, passengers in the lightjet category are going to be
four to six, mids are going tobe six to eight, and now we're
going to be eight to 12 or morein the heavy jets.
Okay, so, with this knowledge,okay, who do you want to work
(06:58):
with?
You also want to think aboutwhat it's going to take in terms
of getting the deal across theline.
When you're dealing with alight jet, by nature there's
less stuff to break, there'sless of a big, there's less of a
thing to inspect.
So your maintenance and yourpre-buy stuff in a light jet is
going to be less involved thanwith a heavy jet.
You know, a heavy jet is goingto have a lot of components that
(07:21):
you're going to want to knowabout.
They're going to have this isusually going to heavy jets
going to come with programs thatyou're going to have to know
about.
There are going to be twopilots that you're going to have
to worry about their training.
There's going to be, probablyoperators involved.
You know, and and just just togive you an idea, the the, the
starting out point in terms ofbudget.
(07:42):
Okay, with a light jet we'regoing to be between 500K yeah,
around 500K to a million to kindof get started.
For half a million dollars wecan find an old citation that's
flyable, that's not just junk.
In the midsize jet we want tobe in the 2 million to 4 million
(08:02):
starter range and the heavyjets we want I'll say 6 slash 8
million to 10 million to get ourfirst jet.
That's going to be heavy.
So just by their nature, themarkets that you're dealing in
are going to be, I don't want tosay, easier because it's a
lower price point, but you justgot to think about, like, well,
(08:24):
the individual who's spending amillion dollars on a jet versus
the individual who's spending$10 million on jet.
These deals are going to bemore complicated.
They're going to involve morepeople.
They're going to involve flightdepartments, they're going to
involve pilots, they're going toinvolve lawyers, they're going
to involve CPAs and it's just,it's a big production that we're
, that we're getting into.
(08:44):
When we're starting going here,versus in a light jet, you
probably have an owner, operator, or maybe you have an owner and
a pilot, maybe there's amechanic.
That's like a one man shop orfour people shop, like the heavy
jets, like you're taking it toa service center and doing a
whole bunch of you know,inspections to it.
The lights can be a little bitsimpler, and then when we talk
about you know if, okay, or ahigher than 4 million, or higher
(09:11):
than 10.
Now we're getting into thelevels of the vintage.
So let's, I'll stop here for asecond.
We've picked business aviationversus general aviation.
We've chosen that we're goingto do jets instead of turboprops
Okay.
Now we're going to do light,mid or heavy Okay, for the sake
of argument, I'm going to gowith light, because that's kind
of where I like to be and havefound success in.
(09:34):
Now that we've chosen light,now we're going to choose how
expensive what's our budgetgoing to be in the light jets?
And the reason that we're doingthis is because the higher
budget stuff is not necessarilygoing to get you more commission
(09:55):
, and it's also could be.
It's going to be a telltalesign of how hard it's going to
be to call on these owners.
If you're calling on somebodywho can afford a half a million
dollar jet versus a $5 millionjet, those are two different
conversations and there'sprobably going to be a lot more
gatekeepers to get here.
Now you can swing for this andmaybe make a better commission
or have an easier sales process,cause I will tell you, when
you're dealing down here it'slike being a used car salesman.
(10:17):
You just like in some ways youdon't know what you're getting
yourself into and there's allthese surprises of old liens,
maintenance that wasn't takencare of, and just you have a
whole slew of differentcharacters that when you get to
a higher vintage or a higherlevel of jet sales it's a little
bit smoother but it's alsoharder to get into.
So you know it's risk versusreward.
So lower risk, lower reward.
(10:38):
Higher risk, higher reward.
You know that's kind of.
I would just encourage you tokind of pick which you want to
start and I would start out inthe middle here trying to list
something that's in the middle.
So if we're talking about amillion dollars and $5 million
like some of here is like $2million.
(11:00):
So I'm going to start here withthe idea of if I understand the
middle market, then if I needto, I can go down a market, and
now I have all this experienceup here.
So if I start in the $2 millionrange with, let's say, a
citation 560, if I need to, Ican drop down into a 501 or a
550 market because these guysare probably going to want to
(11:23):
upgrade to a 560.
Okay, and then I can also, oneday I'll get into the encores
these guys are going to want.
These guys, the 501s, 550s aregoing to want to get into a 560.
So if I've already calledthrough the 560 market, I know
the market, I know what theseplanes entail.
When I talk to the guys downhere, I can talk to them and I
(11:45):
can encourage them.
Yeah, man, you know the fivemarkets currently doing this.
And oh, don't you love theupgrade on the on the JT15D-5
engines, like it's a lot betterthrust than on the dash fours
and it's got the unconditionedblades, so you don't have to
worry about that.
And now I can have aconversation with the things
that they want, okay, so I startin the middle.
So we're business jet, businessjet, light jet.
(12:08):
And then I'm in the middle.
I'm not the most expensivelight jet, I'm not the most
expensive light jet, I'm not.
I'm not doing the, the, the,the bottom of the barrel light
jets.
Yet If I don't find successhere, I can come down here if I
need to, right?
So now we're in the middle ofthe and now we got to pick.
Now we got to pick a, a make,make and model.
Okay.
So now we got to choose.
(12:28):
You know what kind ofmanufacturer are we looking at?
You know, one of the biggestones is obviously Textron.
You know, they took.
They took Cessna and Beechcraft.
Okay, so your Hawkers and yourcitations, like that's kind of
where we're at in here.
You've also got Lear is a bigone.
Okay, not really supportedanymore, but that's, that's a
(12:49):
common one.
You've got Bombardier that's,that's a common one.
Uh, you've got bombardier most,but they're not really in the
light jet category.
Uh, you've got embryo air andthat's.
You're looking at your phenoms.
Uh, beachcraft.
You also got your premieres.
Uh, you've got your honda jet.
You got eclipse.
Oh, how do I pick?
How do I pick and make a model?
Well, we're going to go intothis and we're going to check
(13:10):
out on controller and see what'savailable.
You know, aviation aircraftsales is a popularity contest.
If there's a ton of somethingon sale, it probably means that
there's a ton of people thatwant to buy it.
Or when you look closely, itmight be because it's a fire
sale, nobody wants it anymore.
But we're going to take a lookat it and see.
You know how do we pick a makeand model.
So and this is like Ford islike Chevy, you know it's like
(13:31):
Chevy, you know it's you pick ateam and then you just pick a
team and then you look at thecompetitors and compare them to
a team.
It's easier to pick a team andthen compare things around it as
opposed to like, ok, I'll lookat the Cessnas and the Lears and
the Phenoms and like, try tocompare all three at once, pick
a team and then kind of comparethem.
So it's a bit easier for you toorganize the information.
So again for us, we're going togo with the Textron, we're going
(13:53):
to go with the Cessna, we'regoing to go with the Citation
line, okay.
And then we're going to look atit and there's different makes
and models.
We're going for the light jet,so you might be at the 560, but
within the 560, you've got thestraight 560.
(14:14):
You've got the ultra, which isa little bit newer.
You got the encore.
So within your make and modelyou'll have different years or
different models.
I guess, if you will, and soyou just learn the basics on
these, we go through it, we goto and I'll show you exactly how
we're going to do that on thescreen right now.
But this is how we break downfrom the very top of, how we
(14:36):
figure out the make and model.
If you have questions, go aheadand put them in the comments
below.
But just to kind of go over thisone more time general aviation
versus business aviation.
We chose business.
Turbo products versus jets.
We went to jets Light, mid andheavy.
We went with the light jets.
Uh, light, mid and heavy.
(14:56):
We went with the light jets.
Um price point, we went withthe middle range of of of the of
the light jets that we're goingto be looking at.
So we're in like the twomillion dollar range, so that
this is going to directly impactthe make and model, because now
we're Maybe a Phenom 100, aCitation Jet, not quite the
(15:18):
Honda.
The Honda is going to be alittle at the top of it, but we
can look at it.
We're looking at Premieres,okay.
So now that I know my price, mylight jets, in this price point
you know around $2 million nowI can pick the make and model.
Then, once I pick the make andmodel, let's say I went with a
Citation Jet.
Now I can pick a CJ, cj1, cj1Plus and just find out more
(15:41):
about that.
So again, if you've got anyquestions, let me know.
But let's go ahead and switch.
We're going to go into thescreen, all right.
So here we are in controller.
Yeah, the Falcons, that's right.
That's right.
Hey, ian, what's up, frank?
So okay, so we're in controller.
We've decided we're going to gowith the jet aircraft.
So click on jet aircraft, let'ssee what we got here.
(16:03):
Okay, so now we're going to goto the category.
I guess we already did jetcraft, so we're good there.
Next we'll go to themanufacturer.
We decided we're going to gowith Cessna.
But even just right here, lookat the manufacturer.
On the light jet category,there's 342 light jets by Cessna
for sale.
There's 200 from Gulfstream,151 from Bombardier, 129 from
(16:26):
Dassault, 98 from Lear, 85 fromHawker, 63 from Embraer, which
is the Phenoms, and the Praters,beechcraft 36, boeing 32, and
Sears 30.
So these are the popular ones.
So if I'm thinking aboutgetting into the jet market, I
(16:47):
want to know what the popularjets are, all right.
So let's explore.
Let's just do the Cessnas, allright.
Then we go to select models.
Citations there's fourlongitudes 750s, 19, 26, 16, 61.
Whoa, what's going on here?
Citation 560s oh wow, there's alot of these.
It's including the XLS.
(17:08):
These are midsize, so that'sgoing to impact the numbers.
550s.
There's 53 there.
525 is 112.
So you can get a picture now,right, we're getting a picture
of what's popular.
So we've decided on businessjets and now by using controller
, we can see it's a popularitycontest.
A lot of 550s here.
A lot of them are citation twos.
(17:31):
Maybe that means it's a popularmodel.
We'd have to look and see likeare things actually selling or
is this like a fire salesituation, or is there just a
lot of them?
I'll tell you, there's like 400plus 550s in the world, so
there's just a lot of them thatwere made.
So when they go for sale, thefact that there's 30 for sale,
(17:53):
that's less than 10% of thetotal fleet.
So that's about right, that'sabout average.
But what you want to worryabout is if you saw like a
hundred of them for sale whereit's 25% for sound, then it's
like, okay, that's a bad marketto be in.
So you know, we're looking inhere and let's take a look at
the citation.
Let's go with this CJ.
So the citation jet right here,18.
So the 525 citation jet.
I know that that's in the 1million to $2 million category.
(18:13):
So that's why I'm going to lookat that.
Maybe I'll look at the Mustangstoo.
Okay, apply, filter and close.
And now we start looking atthem.
Okay, 1.5 for CJ.
Here's a Mustang, cj is 1.7,1.7.
Okay, okay, so this might be amarket that I want to look into
(18:35):
now.
And now I have to go through thetraining I'm sorry the steps of
establishing Hold on, let meget rid of the citation check.
Let's say I pick the Mustang.
Now I need to go through allthe steps that we talked about
how to do a market valuation.
How do I go to controller?
What are the steps that I needto take?
What are the?
You know what are the stepsthat I need to take, and let me
(18:57):
see if I can pull this up.
Yep, here we go.
So this is from our, this isfrom our, our JetLife Academy.
You know what we teach you howto do a market valuation by
understanding the makes andmodels.
You know this is these are thedetails that we're going to want
to need per make and model.
And then, when we call thebrokers, we're going to want to
ask them these questions to geta real good sense of the market.
(19:17):
And we put that all into ourmarket report right here that
we're starting to build.
We get the year, the serialnumber, the registration number
and this is all the spreadsheetthat you guys can make on your
own.
There's nothing proprietaryhere.
It's just organizing it so thatyou can say what's the average
year, how many are for sale.
Organizing it so that you cansay what's the average year, how
many are for sale, what's theaverage price.
(19:38):
Okay, this is how it all flows.
And so becoming a let me justremove this here.
So so becoming a private jetbroker, I mean these are your
first steps.
We, we, we got to pick a marketfor you to be in.
You know, when you're workingwith with JetLife Arrow, we have
other tools like JetNet thatcan show you the data like
here's how many are in the fleet, here's how many are for sale.
Give you an idea of if it's abuyer or seller's market within
(19:59):
this, and then we can pick itthat way and get you prices a
little bit easier.
But if you don't have JetNet, ifyou're not working with a
broker, these are the steps thatyou need to go through to
figure out what jets orturboprops or aircraft you want
to sell.
You start with general aviationversus business and you work
your way all the way down andthen you use the data on
controller.
If I go this route, what arethe manufacturers that I can
(20:21):
look at, what are the popularmodels from these manufacturers?
And then go find out moreinformation about those makes
and models.
Use globallayercom, use VREF,use Avbuyer, use all these
resources to become moreknowledgeable about this stuff
and then start calling throughthe market.
Once you're calling through themarket, now you have a pulse
for it.
Now you can go find buyers andsellers and put them into into
(20:42):
that market and start makingdeals happen.
So this is this is the process,right?
It's not?
It's not, uh, it's not anythingsuper complicated.
It's just step by step by step.
And you know, I invite you, ifyou've been thinking about this,
you know, maybe you're in aspot where you're just not sure,
like where your career is atand you're trying to find out
more information about, you know, becoming, you know becoming a
(21:04):
jet broker.
I would encourage you to checkout our circle community.
So I would encourage you tojoin the circle community, go to
circlejetlifeaerocom and therewe've got a discussion board
where you can ask questions.
But here's the deal.
You know, if you're thinkingabout getting into aircraft
sales, I'd love to help you andwe have a free resource for you
in the Circle community.
It also includes a freetraining.
(21:25):
We've also got courses in thereand you know I want to show you
how.
You know I went from zero to asix-figure year, my first year,
and then just kind of multiplythat out as I continued, and I'd
love an opportunity to workwith you and talk to you more.
So join the circle community.
We'll be back next week, youknow, on a let's see.
Thank you so much for, for, forjoining us today and we'll,
(21:47):
we'll, we'll catch you guyslater.
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