August 16, 2024 • 26 mins
In this episode, Allan Draper and Tom Lelyo dive into a conversation about finding the sweet spot between making a good income and chasing your passions. Tom shares his journey of wanting to help people who, like him, have a servant's heart but just never found the right vehicle for success...
Together, they explore how finding the right balance between work, passion, and life can lead to success without sacrificing what really matters. Tom and Allan discuss how important it is to find and work with people with the right heart, not just the right resume, and how that perspective can make all the difference in achieving both personal and professional fulfillment.
A big thank you to Allan Draper for originally hosting this episode on his Podcast! Check out his channel for more great content. Find Allan here:
https://www.youtube.com/@allandraper
https://allandraper.com/
https://www.instagram.com/allanrdraper/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the show, tom.
Very happy to have you.
Hello, alan, thanks so much forhaving me.
You've been passionate aboutaviation and it's led you to
find business opportunities,which is fantastic.
I talk a lot about and I get alot of questions about hey,
what's the industry that Ishould start a business in?
And my first non-real estaterelated business was actually
(00:24):
pest control and I love thatindustry.
I'm very passionate about theindustry, but I'm not really
passionate about bugs andcritters and stuff like that, so
it's a little different thanyour take.
Tell me about how you gotinterested in aviation and how
you parlayed that into abusiness slash career.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah for sure, when I first got interested in private
aviation, probably like manypeople of my age, when I first
saw Top Gun in the movies.
I was like I want to be afighter pilot man, and so I told
my mom.
She took me out to the localairport.
I started doing flying privatelessons and within three lessons
(01:03):
I quit.
I couldn't take it.
I got headaches every time Iwent up there and it just wasn't
enjoyable for me.
I thought I wanted to be a firepilot, but I couldn't.
I couldn't handle it, so I kindof put that on the back burner
for a little while and my maincareer when I first got out of
college was actually a youthpastor.
I was really passionate about myfaith and I had a good
experience growing up in myCatholic church locally and so I
(01:27):
wanted to be a youth pastor andI did that for about a decade.
And then I turned my attentionto helping a local music school
grow with the marketing andsales as a manager there, and at
that point in time my wife andI we had five kids and we were
just sick and tired of livingpaycheck to paycheck.
Even though we were passionateabout something, we still needed
(01:50):
to pay the bills and we alwaysfelt like there was something
more for us out there.
And that's where I saw an adonline for sales.
I don't even think it said jets, I think it just said high
luxury items.
I walked into the office, foundout it was at the airport and I
found out that it was sellingprivate jets.
I think it just said highluxury items.
I walked into the office, foundout it was at the airport and I
found out that it was sellingprivate jets.
And I guess they liked my smile.
They took a chance on a guythat didn't have much aviation
(02:14):
experience and the rest is kindof history and just kind of
rekindled my love for aviationand flying.
And when you fast forward acouple of years, I successfully
did complete my pilot's license.
So I am an actual pilot now andI own my own little 172 plane
and aviation's been my life forthe last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That's cool.
So what year was that that youwalked into that new opportunity
?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah Well, funny enough, it was during COVID.
I had put my two weeks noticein at the music school and then
two weeks later, everything gotshut down and the agency called
me and they said hey, dude, justso you know, we can't hire you
right now, you're going to haveto wait.
We don't know how long I wasout of a job and I just kind of
(03:02):
had to sit there for six weeks,which you know, I ended up doing
another side project that I wasworking on at the time and made
stuff happen, and then, sixweeks later, they brought me in.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
You know that's.
I mean, that's an interestingdynamic, right, like you were
really passionate about being ayouth pastor, you're passionate
about the music store.
When, if someone were to askyou, hey, tom, you have to
choose passion or money.
Which do you choose?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, it's kind of funny because we've my wife and
I've had that conversation, youknow, and what I have found is
when, when the stars align, uh,it's having that enough finances
so that we can also not justparticipate in our passions but
participate on a higher level.
And so now I can pour in.
(03:52):
I'm still involved in thechurch as a volunteer youth
minister because my kids aremiddle school, high school age.
My wife and I still play musicat church, but now I'm able to
pour into these kids from adifferent place.
Play music at church, but nowI'm able to pour into these kids
from a different place.
I'm not pouring into them froma place of want and scarcity,
(04:12):
which has its own merits from afaith perspective there's the
humility component of it, butnow I can pour into these kids
and into my passions from aplace of abundance, and I think
there's something to that.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I'm a father.
I have three um, wonderfulchildren.
90 of the time they'rewonderful um.
I have a 10 year old boy,maddox.
I have a eight year old boy,jackson, and a four-year-old
daughter, olivia, and I don'ttalk about it much on this show,
on my social platforms, alittle bit here and there, and I
(04:44):
think people get confused withhow much time and and how much
of my life they are Um and andright now they're they're kind
of they're they're at reallypivotal ages.
I think kids are, no matterwhat age they're at, um.
I think it's really cool thatyou worked with youth, because
(05:09):
the world's such a crazy placeright now and I think it's kind
of always been but with theinternet, with social media,
with access to crazy information, with COVID happening and all
these moving parts, being afather is, you know, much more
(05:31):
important to me than being anentrepreneur.
I believe that I'm going to bea father forever, right?
I believe?
You know I have a strong faithin God.
I believe that it's going tolast into perpetuity, whereas my
career as an entrepreneur, asan investor, is more of a
short-term gig.
(05:52):
So I think it's really coolthat you've had this opportunity
to spend some time with theyouth and they're so
impressionable.
And One thing that I've learnedand this goes back to the
question about passion versusmoney it's like you're measured.
(06:16):
We try not to judge others, butit's natural, it's a survival
mechanism and there are somepeople that you will not be able
to reach.
Without achieving a certainlevel of success, you will not
be able to reach them, and it'snot that your goal should be to
(06:38):
reach everybody, but you know,people talk you hear a lot of,
usually in the religiouscommunity or whatever.
They talk a lot about money'sevil or whatever, and it
definitely can be used for evil,but my opinion has always been
that it's more of a tool.
It's kind of like a shovelright, I could do bad stuff with
a shovel, I could hit somebodywith it, right, or you know,
(07:02):
whatever.
There's a few more analogiesthere.
What has working with the youth?
How has that impacted you interms of your professional life
and what you want to achievefinancially and professionally?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah.
So what was kind of interestingabout the story, as I was going
through as a youth pastor,music person, a lot of my
quality time with my kids wasthrough volunteering, through
coaching and stuff, and I lovethat.
But then when I went into saleswith aviation, I had to put
that on the back burner and thecompany was pretty clear about
that.
You can't leave early to gocoach your kids, and so what was
(07:39):
interesting was that there wasa shift there from being present
to them, like after school andstuff, to not being present.
But when I was present withthem, I was present in a
different way.
Like hey, we could take a tripnow.
Like we can go on vacation thisyear because we actually have
funds for it.
Or when I take them to a soccergame, hey, we can actually
afford a Chick-fil-A sandwich.
Hey, bring your friends.
(08:00):
Like we can pay for yourfriends, and that was that was
rewarding in its own way.
And so for me, um, when it comesto giving back, or when it
comes to quality time, when itcomes to how my faith, life and
my working with the youth hasinformed me moving forward, my
goal in the future, like I justI recently started my own
(08:21):
brokerage.
My goal is to reach out topeople who were like me, that
had the heart of a servant, thatwere hungry for success but
just never had the right vehicle.
So now what it does for me is Inow have a vehicle.
I now have a way that I cantransform my life with income,
and I want to share that withother people that most
(08:42):
brokerages are probably lookingfor someone that's a pilot or
has sales experience or whatever.
I'm looking for the right, likethe kind hearted people that
are going to work really hardbecause I can teach you the soft
skills on how to talk tosomeone and how to sell a jet so
that it can transform your life.
So I'm looking at it from thatperspective of how can I
transform someone's life, notjust how can I sell more jets
(09:03):
for myself.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You hear this analogy quite a bit.
I've heard it probably ahundred times in my life or more
.
But you know about how, how toget the most rocks and you know
if you have a bunch of rocks andwater and you need to put, put,
put in a glass jar, right, youstart with the big rocks first.
You start with the big rocksfirst and then you can kind of
fill in the gaps with thesmaller rocks and the gaps there
(09:26):
with the pebbles and then thegaps there with the sand and
then you top off the water andif you do it that way, you can
get the most out of the jarright, the proverbial jar.
But if you put the sand infirst or the water in first,
you're not going to get thosebig rocks.
And I've seen that in my life.
I have somebody that I'mrelatively close to that he's
(09:51):
very, very successful.
He put, you know, but he putthe water in first.
And for me, my faith and myfamily, those are the big rocks.
And what I worry about a lot oftimes when I'm talking to
entrepreneurs especially folksgetting started, because the
startup phase is such a a grindis I want to make sure that they
(10:13):
have those big rocks in the jar, first those things, that
because the other stuff's goingto come.
That's what.
That's what I've learned.
If you, if you get um, thatstuff right, you don't screw
that stuff up, um, you'll,you'll be able to fit the rest.
You can pave a way to success,you can figure it out.
(10:34):
But a lot of people, tom,they'll say, no, this is like it
has to be.
My life for a decade or this isall that matters, and I'm not
saying that they don't have aninitial focus isn't required,
because it is.
But you know it's so importantbecause people will say, hey,
(10:56):
you know a lot of times they'llsay, hey, I don't have anything
to give, but once I do, I will,and then, once they do, they
don't.
It's like you have to figureout how to give of your time and
money before you have it.
That's when it's interestinglyenough, that's when it's the
easiest and you develop thesepatterns.
But that's kind of aninteresting path that you've
(11:21):
taken.
I think it's really coolbecause you have this
perspective.
I experienced a lot of guilt.
I got married later.
I didn't have my first sonuntil after I graduated from law
school and things were prettytight back then.
But it was never, you know,like some of the stories that I
(11:42):
hear, with people reallystruggling.
But your perspective is veryrefreshing because you're
thankful with the situation thatyou're in now that you can go
to Chick-fil-A and take you know, take some of your kids'
buddies with you.
Um, and one thing that I'mworried about is making sure
that I pass it on to my kids.
(12:02):
Like, how do I pass this on tomy kids when, um, I definitely
didn't grow up, as my kids aregrowing up, um, have you, have
you come across that at all?
Have you ever had thoughtsabout, hey, how do I, how do I
instill this attitude ofgratitude and, you know,
thankfulness in my children?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well, I think it's been kind of an interesting
journey for our kids, cause theolder, my son, who's 13,.
You know he started out with uswhere, you know, when we first
got married, we lived on thesame property as my parents in
like their guest house, so likewe were always there and you
know he's experienced likegrandma was always helping us.
He experienced paycheck topaycheck, he experienced not
(12:42):
being able to go to Chick-fil-A,so he kind of grew up with that
.
Now there was kind of anopening.
We had a couple of coolopportunities, you know, for the
past couple of years, while Iwas working with the brokerage,
you know, and my income, justyou know, kept increasing,
doubling year over year.
And what's interesting is nowthat I've gone out on my own,
like there's a big scale back.
So we're kind of like goingback to like okay, like you know
(13:05):
, how do we balance between, youknow, growing something and and
and the lifestyle that we, thatwe were getting accustomed to
the last three years?
So I think, for a lot of, formy older, the older half of the
kids, the first three, you know,they kind of experienced a
little bit of what it used to belike and then they came out of
it and now we're kind of goingback.
So I think they're going tohave a good perspective of it.
(13:26):
And what I'm kind of excitedabout is that challenge that
you're talking about, you know,for the younger ones, because I
see this as just like the startand it's only going to get you
know better.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Moving forward there's this balance between, I
think, with with kids,especially where it's like you,
you want to show them what'spossible.
I grew up in a small farmingcommunity on the Oregon Idaho
border and I was just there thispast weekend actually.
Community on the Oregon-Idahoborder and I was just there this
past weekend.
Actually we go back quite a bitfor a couple of reasons, spend
(14:00):
our summers there, but in thetown that I grew up in and I
learned a lot of really goodskills, I learned how to work
hard and things like that.
But people rarely leave thearea, they don't go see what's
out there.
And luckily my mom, she wantedme to get out of the house as
soon as I could and go explorethe world.
And so on one hand, you wantyour kids to see what's possible
(14:26):
, which is pretty much anything.
They can be, whatever they wantto be, but on the other hand,
you want to keep them groundedand as parents, I mean we're in
a really tough situation for alot of reasons.
It's tough.
Being a parent and being ahusband is those are the two of
(14:46):
my toughest jobs, my mostrewarding jobs, but two of my
toughest.
And but it's important that wewe help them realize hey, you
can go conquer the world.
No-transcript.
Don't do that, because then thereward will be empty.
(15:06):
It will it, you know you'll.
You'll get there and you'llfeel some sense of achievement,
but it won't last.
So um interesting conversation.
I've never chatted um withanybody about this.
Before we move on, what areyour kind of closing thoughts
about being a father and workingthrough these types of issues
with your children?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, I would say I've got two, two quick stories.
One as far as like trying toshow my kids how to, to, to, to
grow in business.
You know, one of the thingsthat cracks me up is my oldest
son, who's in middle school.
He has learned that if he goesto, you know, the local publics
and buys a pack of gum for likefive bucks of like you know 20
sticks, he can go to school andsell them for like two to five
(15:44):
bucks a piece.
And so he started thatentrepreneurial.
Yeah, I know it's crazy, buthe's starting that because he's
seen, you know, we're trying,like I try things with them,
like try that, that, that youknow Facebook, marketplace stuff
and you know, expose them tothat kind of stuff.
So I try to show them.
If they ever ask for something,it's like, yeah, what money do
you have?
You know, we kind of startedthat early because we didn't
(16:04):
have any money.
So if you wanted something, youknow, go find a way to make it
happen.
And then the second one was oneday I was in the car with
talking to a client of mine andsome things had gone south or
whatever, and this client justwent off on me and he was on
speakerphone, my son heard itand you know we're sitting there
(16:26):
and I get it all the time.
So I'm just like, okay, fine,Someone went off on me.
But my son is sitting therecrying with his head in his
hands and I'm like, buddy, likeit's okay, like don't worry
about it, like what's wrong?
He's just like I'm just soupset that somebody was so mean,
you know, to my dad and I'mlike I get it, I, and I'm like I
get it, I, you know, Iunderstand you, but like watch
(16:46):
me, like watch what I'm going todo after this.
Like because that was a pivotalmoment in my career and I can't
get into like the details ofwhat that conversation was about
, but that was a pivotal momentin my career where I had a
choice to either back down andpretty much walk away from what
I was trying to do and what Iwas looking to do in my career,
(17:07):
or I could step up to the plate,take my best swing and move
forward.
And that was almost a year agoor so now.
And I recently went back to myson and it's like remember that
conversation where that guy wentoff on me.
It's like see where we are ayear later, you know, and that's
because I didn't quit.
I, you know I wanted to, to moveforward and I I'm so thankful
(17:30):
he was in the car with me atthat time because he, like
that's just now ingrained in mybrain and in my life, like that
was a pivotal moment for us.
Then he was kind of thecatalyst for that, because I
wanted to show him, you know,watch what's going to happen.
(17:50):
And I guess maybe that's partof what we do as parents, you
know, is sometimes we try toshelter them from our struggles,
our failures.
But if they see a struggle andthey can see us overcome that
struggle, then they can knowthat they can overcome those
struggles as well.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
There's so many great lessonsin there, I think, as business
leaders great lessons in there,I think, as business leaders as
well as parents, you know, Ibelieve in these ultimate
principles of truth and that'sone of them where it's like
don't, if you want to leadsomebody, don't tell them to go
do it, tell them, watch me.
(18:20):
That's I mean that sticks withpeople, that's that hits
different, you know.
And and the struggle component,man, I try to get not having
enough struggle for my childrenis one of my biggest concerns
and so I'm always looking forways that I can struggle in
(18:42):
front of them and I've recentlystarted, over the last month or
two, jumping in really coldwater, really uncomfortable,
uncomfortable, like you know,doing the cold plunges and stuff
.
And because our kids don't seethat right, I've been blessed in
a lot of ways with, with, withmy businesses.
(19:04):
Um, I have a couple of decentvehicles and and and things like
that, and that's what my kidssee.
They see, they see the cars orwhatever.
They don't see the strugglethat went into it.
They don't see the people thatquit on me, they don't see the
people that yelled at me likecustomers and all that.
So I think that, man, that'ssuch a a cool story that, and
(19:28):
the funny thing is that nothingcould teach your son that lesson
like that right, yeah, it's thereal, it's the real world,
stuff for sure I am interestedin hearing about the aviation
side of your career.
I'm especially interested inhearing about how people can
monetize owning airplanes, jetswhatever, when they're not using
(19:53):
them.
And tell me about that.
That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
So in aviation there's a coupleof different ways to make money
.
You can become a broker.
The interesting thing aboutbecoming a broker is there's no
license, no certifications.
You just kind of start, youkind of get yourself going.
I was a youth pastor beforehand,so for those people that might
be listening to your show,they're like what do I do?
I like planes, but how can Imake money with aviation?
Well, being a broker is one waythat you could do that, and
(20:21):
it's the sales skills that youtalk about, it's the marketing
skills that you talk about onyour podcast.
And you can grow your ownbusiness from that perspective
of just listing, selling planes,kind of like a realtor, but
with airplanes or private jets,and you can do both.
You can do everything.
So I mean that might be one waythat your audience would be
(20:41):
interested in.
And then, of course, if you'reat the end of the spectrum,
where you're looking to invest,you know basically what you do
is you buy a jet and you hand itoff to a charter company to
rent it out and work it out, andthey will pay you back.
You know the revenue.
It's kind of.
It's basically like realty,it's like Airbnb, right, and you
(21:03):
and you hand over the asset toa management company that will
handle getting the clients andgenerating income from that
specific asset.
There's a lot to it, obviously,and a lot of things that I
wouldn't advise it for everybody.
There's some things to be awareof, but more and more people
are becoming excited aboutprivate aviation.
I watched a couple of videosfrom Chris Korn and Nick
(21:25):
Marietta and other people likethat that they're like I'm more
excited about private aviation.
I watched a couple of videosfrom Chris Korn and Nick
Marietta and other people likethat that they're like I'm more
excited about private aviationthan I am about real estate
right now because of whatthey're seeing in the market.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
That's interesting.
So it's kind of like buying apiece of property, handing it
over to a property managementcompany, crossing off some dates
or whatever, where it's like,hey, I'm going to be, you know,
I'm going to be using it on onthese dates and uh, fill it up.
What type of fee is wouldsomebody be looking at to to use
(21:57):
?
Uh, so?
So is that what you do as abroker?
To tell me a little bit aboutwhat it means to be a broker, or
are you involved in thetransaction of buy-sell?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So I primarily do the buy-sell.
The investing part is kind of anewer service that we've been
offering.
So I will work as anacquisition broker, but now,
because I've been making theconnections with the operators
and explaining the opportunityto people, now people are hiring
me to be their acquisitionbroker to buy a jet but also
take them through the process ofsetting up that they can buy a
(22:29):
jet and make an investment of it.
I mean, and it's a very longsales cycle you know we're
talking nine months to a yearfrom you know someone talking
with someone and then findingthe right operator, finding the
right jet and then actuallybuying the jet, actually buying
the jet.
So to your original question oflike how it works, you
(22:50):
basically need capital upfrontto buy the jet, and the jet that
we're looking at is going to beprobably $2 million or more.
You know, all the way up tolike a Gulfstream, that's, you
know, 10, 20, whatever milliondollars.
So you're going to at leastneed $2 million to kind of get
into the game.
So it's got high acquisitioncosts and then from there, when
you hand it over to themanagement company, they'll
charge a fee.
It could be a couple thousanddollars a month to manage it.
(23:13):
And then on top of that theywill rent it out by the hour.
And so if it costs you let'ssay $3,500 to operate the jet,
they will charge let's say,$5,500 an hour to the retail
person to use it.
And they'll usually take apercentage, like 15% of that,
that $2,000 per hour margin, orthey'll take a flat rate.
(23:36):
Maybe it's $1,500 of that, youknow of that, uh, or not 1,500,
but a flat rate of that $2,000per hour.
And that's how they make theirmoney that's.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
That's interesting.
Are you seeing people that getinto aviation for the first time
going straight to that type ofmodel, or is this usually people
that you know they've had aprivate jet for a while for
their own purposes?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
they decide to decide to do it but surprisingly
enough, a lot of them arefirst-time aviators.
Uh, because they.
The part of the key is thatyou're not going to use the jet
for yourself, so you reallydon't want someone that's
already using their jet for 100to 100 hours a year, because
then it doesn't give the chartercompany enough time to make
money and make revenue.
(24:20):
It's like buying a vacationhouse that you're going to use
three months, four months out ofthe year, in the summer, in
times of peak, you know whereyou would want to sell it.
So it's usually either firsttime operators or operators that
want to buy another jet intheir portfolio and hand it over
to an operating company.
Oh, and the other thing I forgotto mention was one of the
(24:41):
reasons why people do.
It is because of thedepreciation, so last year you
could actually accelerate.
Do is because of thedepreciation, so last year you
could actually accelerate,depreciate 100% of your purchase
.
So if you bought a $4 millionjet, boom, $4 million in that
year was done.
Now it's down to 80% and it'sgoing to phase itself out, but
the accelerated depreciationthat was applied to private jets
(25:02):
was a huge boost for the pastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's awesome man.
That's very cool.
I definitely have some morequestions that I'd like to ask
you, uh, once we uh pause therecording.
But that's fantastic.
This, this has been great man.
This has been a really coolconversation.
Uh, very applicable.
Um, just people, a lot of mylisteners are.
(25:26):
They're looking to get to thenext level and sometimes, um,
the more practical aspect ofdoing that is is what's
important and maybe holding themback.
So this conversation been great.
People have questions for youor they want to reach out.
What's the best uh way for themto contact you?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Just go to theultimatejetguycom Now.
My social media handles are onthere for Instagram, linkedin,
tiktok, youtube, sotheultimatejetguycom is where
you want to go.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Love it Well.
Thanks for joining us today,Tom.
I appreciate all the great infoand best of luck, man.
Thanks, Alan, Appreciate it.
Welcome to the show, tom.
Very happy to have you.
Hello, alan, thanks so much forhaving me.
You've been passionate aboutaviation and it's led you to
find business opportunities,which is fantastic.
I talk a lot about and I get alot of questions about hey,
what's the industry that Ishould start a business in?
And my first non-real estaterelated business was actually
(00:24):
pest control and I love thatindustry.
I'm very passionate about theindustry, but I'm not really
passionate about bugs andcritters and stuff like that, so
it's a little different thanyour take.
Tell me about how you gotinterested in aviation and how
you parlayed that into abusiness slash career.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah for sure, when I first got interested in private
aviation, probably like manypeople of my age, when I first
saw Top Gun in the movies.
I was like I want to be afighter pilot man, and so I told
my mom.
She took me out to the localairport.
I started doing flying privatelessons and within three lessons
(01:03):
I quit.
I couldn't take it.
I got headaches every time Iwent up there and it just wasn't
enjoyable for me.
I thought I wanted to be a firepilot, but I couldn't.
I couldn't handle it, so I kindof put that on the back burner
for a little while and my maincareer when I first got out of
college was actually a youthpastor.
I was really passionate about myfaith and I had a good
experience growing up in myCatholic church locally and so I
(01:27):
wanted to be a youth pastor andI did that for about a decade.
And then I turned my attentionto helping a local music school
grow with the marketing andsales as a manager there, and at
that point in time my wife andI we had five kids and we were
just sick and tired of livingpaycheck to paycheck.
Even though we were passionateabout something, we still needed
(01:50):
to pay the bills and we alwaysfelt like there was something
more for us out there.
And that's where I saw an adonline for sales.
I don't even think it said jets, I think it just said high
luxury items.
I walked into the office, foundout it was at the airport and I
found out that it was sellingprivate jets.
I think it just said highluxury items.
I walked into the office, foundout it was at the airport and I
found out that it was sellingprivate jets.
And I guess they liked my smile.
They took a chance on a guythat didn't have much aviation
(02:14):
experience and the rest is kindof history and just kind of
rekindled my love for aviationand flying.
And when you fast forward acouple of years, I successfully
did complete my pilot's license.
So I am an actual pilot now andI own my own little 172 plane
and aviation's been my life forthe last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That's cool.
So what year was that that youwalked into that new opportunity
?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah Well, funny enough, it was during COVID.
I had put my two weeks noticein at the music school and then
two weeks later, everything gotshut down and the agency called
me and they said hey, dude, justso you know, we can't hire you
right now, you're going to haveto wait.
We don't know how long I wasout of a job and I just kind of
(03:02):
had to sit there for six weeks,which you know, I ended up doing
another side project that I wasworking on at the time and made
stuff happen, and then, sixweeks later, they brought me in.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
You know that's.
I mean, that's an interestingdynamic, right, like you were
really passionate about being ayouth pastor, you're passionate
about the music store.
When, if someone were to askyou, hey, tom, you have to
choose passion or money.
Which do you choose?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, it's kind of funny because we've my wife and
I've had that conversation, youknow, and what I have found is
when, when the stars align, uh,it's having that enough finances
so that we can also not justparticipate in our passions but
participate on a higher level.
And so now I can pour in.
(03:52):
I'm still involved in thechurch as a volunteer youth
minister because my kids aremiddle school, high school age.
My wife and I still play musicat church, but now I'm able to
pour into these kids from adifferent place.
Play music at church, but nowI'm able to pour into these kids
from a different place.
I'm not pouring into them froma place of want and scarcity,
(04:12):
which has its own merits from afaith perspective there's the
humility component of it, butnow I can pour into these kids
and into my passions from aplace of abundance, and I think
there's something to that.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I'm a father.
I have three um, wonderfulchildren.
90 of the time they'rewonderful um.
I have a 10 year old boy,maddox.
I have a eight year old boy,jackson, and a four-year-old
daughter, olivia, and I don'ttalk about it much on this show,
on my social platforms, alittle bit here and there, and I
(04:44):
think people get confused withhow much time and and how much
of my life they are Um and andright now they're they're kind
of they're they're at reallypivotal ages.
I think kids are, no matterwhat age they're at, um.
I think it's really cool thatyou worked with youth, because
(05:09):
the world's such a crazy placeright now and I think it's kind
of always been but with theinternet, with social media,
with access to crazy information, with COVID happening and all
these moving parts, being afather is, you know, much more
(05:31):
important to me than being anentrepreneur.
I believe that I'm going to bea father forever, right?
I believe?
You know I have a strong faithin God.
I believe that it's going tolast into perpetuity, whereas my
career as an entrepreneur, asan investor, is more of a
short-term gig.
(05:52):
So I think it's really coolthat you've had this opportunity
to spend some time with theyouth and they're so
impressionable.
And One thing that I've learnedand this goes back to the
question about passion versusmoney it's like you're measured.
(06:16):
We try not to judge others, butit's natural, it's a survival
mechanism and there are somepeople that you will not be able
to reach.
Without achieving a certainlevel of success, you will not
be able to reach them, and it'snot that your goal should be to
(06:38):
reach everybody, but you know,people talk you hear a lot of,
usually in the religiouscommunity or whatever.
They talk a lot about money'sevil or whatever, and it
definitely can be used for evil,but my opinion has always been
that it's more of a tool.
It's kind of like a shovelright, I could do bad stuff with
a shovel, I could hit somebodywith it, right, or you know,
(07:02):
whatever.
There's a few more analogiesthere.
What has working with the youth?
How has that impacted you interms of your professional life
and what you want to achievefinancially and professionally?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah.
So what was kind of interestingabout the story, as I was going
through as a youth pastor,music person, a lot of my
quality time with my kids wasthrough volunteering, through
coaching and stuff, and I lovethat.
But then when I went into saleswith aviation, I had to put
that on the back burner and thecompany was pretty clear about
that.
You can't leave early to gocoach your kids, and so what was
(07:39):
interesting was that there wasa shift there from being present
to them, like after school andstuff, to not being present.
But when I was present withthem, I was present in a
different way.
Like hey, we could take a tripnow.
Like we can go on vacation thisyear because we actually have
funds for it.
Or when I take them to a soccergame, hey, we can actually
afford a Chick-fil-A sandwich.
Hey, bring your friends.
(08:00):
Like we can pay for yourfriends, and that was that was
rewarding in its own way.
And so for me, um, when it comesto giving back, or when it
comes to quality time, when itcomes to how my faith, life and
my working with the youth hasinformed me moving forward, my
goal in the future, like I justI recently started my own
(08:21):
brokerage.
My goal is to reach out topeople who were like me, that
had the heart of a servant, thatwere hungry for success but
just never had the right vehicle.
So now what it does for me is Inow have a vehicle.
I now have a way that I cantransform my life with income,
and I want to share that withother people that most
(08:42):
brokerages are probably lookingfor someone that's a pilot or
has sales experience or whatever.
I'm looking for the right, likethe kind hearted people that
are going to work really hardbecause I can teach you the soft
skills on how to talk tosomeone and how to sell a jet so
that it can transform your life.
So I'm looking at it from thatperspective of how can I
transform someone's life, notjust how can I sell more jets
(09:03):
for myself.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You hear this analogy quite a bit.
I've heard it probably ahundred times in my life or more
.
But you know about how, how toget the most rocks and you know
if you have a bunch of rocks andwater and you need to put, put,
put in a glass jar, right, youstart with the big rocks first.
You start with the big rocksfirst and then you can kind of
fill in the gaps with thesmaller rocks and the gaps there
(09:26):
with the pebbles and then thegaps there with the sand and
then you top off the water andif you do it that way, you can
get the most out of the jarright, the proverbial jar.
But if you put the sand infirst or the water in first,
you're not going to get thosebig rocks.
And I've seen that in my life.
I have somebody that I'mrelatively close to that he's
(09:51):
very, very successful.
He put, you know, but he putthe water in first.
And for me, my faith and myfamily, those are the big rocks.
And what I worry about a lot oftimes when I'm talking to
entrepreneurs especially folksgetting started, because the
startup phase is such a a grindis I want to make sure that they
(10:13):
have those big rocks in the jar, first those things, that
because the other stuff's goingto come.
That's what.
That's what I've learned.
If you, if you get um, thatstuff right, you don't screw
that stuff up, um, you'll,you'll be able to fit the rest.
You can pave a way to success,you can figure it out.
(10:34):
But a lot of people, tom,they'll say, no, this is like it
has to be.
My life for a decade or this isall that matters, and I'm not
saying that they don't have aninitial focus isn't required,
because it is.
But you know it's so importantbecause people will say, hey,
(10:56):
you know a lot of times they'llsay, hey, I don't have anything
to give, but once I do, I will,and then, once they do, they
don't.
It's like you have to figureout how to give of your time and
money before you have it.
That's when it's interestinglyenough, that's when it's the
easiest and you develop thesepatterns.
But that's kind of aninteresting path that you've
(11:21):
taken.
I think it's really coolbecause you have this
perspective.
I experienced a lot of guilt.
I got married later.
I didn't have my first sonuntil after I graduated from law
school and things were prettytight back then.
But it was never, you know,like some of the stories that I
(11:42):
hear, with people reallystruggling.
But your perspective is veryrefreshing because you're
thankful with the situation thatyou're in now that you can go
to Chick-fil-A and take you know, take some of your kids'
buddies with you.
Um, and one thing that I'mworried about is making sure
that I pass it on to my kids.
(12:02):
Like, how do I pass this on tomy kids when, um, I definitely
didn't grow up, as my kids aregrowing up, um, have you, have
you come across that at all?
Have you ever had thoughtsabout, hey, how do I, how do I
instill this attitude ofgratitude and, you know,
thankfulness in my children?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well, I think it's been kind of an interesting
journey for our kids, cause theolder, my son, who's 13,.
You know he started out with uswhere, you know, when we first
got married, we lived on thesame property as my parents in
like their guest house, so likewe were always there and you
know he's experienced likegrandma was always helping us.
He experienced paycheck topaycheck, he experienced not
(12:42):
being able to go to Chick-fil-A,so he kind of grew up with that
.
Now there was kind of anopening.
We had a couple of coolopportunities, you know, for the
past couple of years, while Iwas working with the brokerage,
you know, and my income, justyou know, kept increasing,
doubling year over year.
And what's interesting is nowthat I've gone out on my own,
like there's a big scale back.
So we're kind of like goingback to like okay, like you know
(13:05):
, how do we balance between, youknow, growing something and and
and the lifestyle that we, thatwe were getting accustomed to
the last three years?
So I think, for a lot of, formy older, the older half of the
kids, the first three, you know,they kind of experienced a
little bit of what it used to belike and then they came out of
it and now we're kind of goingback.
So I think they're going tohave a good perspective of it.
(13:26):
And what I'm kind of excitedabout is that challenge that
you're talking about, you know,for the younger ones, because I
see this as just like the startand it's only going to get you
know better.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Moving forward there's this balance between, I
think, with with kids,especially where it's like you,
you want to show them what'spossible.
I grew up in a small farmingcommunity on the Oregon Idaho
border and I was just there thispast weekend actually.
Community on the Oregon-Idahoborder and I was just there this
past weekend.
Actually we go back quite a bitfor a couple of reasons, spend
(14:00):
our summers there, but in thetown that I grew up in and I
learned a lot of really goodskills, I learned how to work
hard and things like that.
But people rarely leave thearea, they don't go see what's
out there.
And luckily my mom, she wantedme to get out of the house as
soon as I could and go explorethe world.
And so on one hand, you wantyour kids to see what's possible
(14:26):
, which is pretty much anything.
They can be, whatever they wantto be, but on the other hand,
you want to keep them groundedand as parents, I mean we're in
a really tough situation for alot of reasons.
It's tough.
Being a parent and being ahusband is those are the two of
(14:46):
my toughest jobs, my mostrewarding jobs, but two of my
toughest.
And but it's important that wewe help them realize hey, you
can go conquer the world.
No-transcript.
Don't do that, because then thereward will be empty.
(15:06):
It will it, you know you'll.
You'll get there and you'llfeel some sense of achievement,
but it won't last.
So um interesting conversation.
I've never chatted um withanybody about this.
Before we move on, what areyour kind of closing thoughts
about being a father and workingthrough these types of issues
with your children?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, I would say I've got two, two quick stories.
One as far as like trying toshow my kids how to, to, to, to
grow in business.
You know, one of the thingsthat cracks me up is my oldest
son, who's in middle school.
He has learned that if he goesto, you know, the local publics
and buys a pack of gum for likefive bucks of like you know 20
sticks, he can go to school andsell them for like two to five
(15:44):
bucks a piece.
And so he started thatentrepreneurial.
Yeah, I know it's crazy, buthe's starting that because he's
seen, you know, we're trying,like I try things with them,
like try that, that, that youknow Facebook, marketplace stuff
and you know, expose them tothat kind of stuff.
So I try to show them.
If they ever ask for something,it's like, yeah, what money do
you have?
You know, we kind of startedthat early because we didn't
(16:04):
have any money.
So if you wanted something, youknow, go find a way to make it
happen.
And then the second one was oneday I was in the car with
talking to a client of mine andsome things had gone south or
whatever, and this client justwent off on me and he was on
speakerphone, my son heard itand you know we're sitting there
(16:26):
and I get it all the time.
So I'm just like, okay, fine,Someone went off on me.
But my son is sitting therecrying with his head in his
hands and I'm like, buddy, likeit's okay, like don't worry
about it, like what's wrong?
He's just like I'm just soupset that somebody was so mean,
you know, to my dad and I'mlike I get it, I, and I'm like I
get it, I, you know, Iunderstand you, but like watch
(16:46):
me, like watch what I'm going todo after this.
Like because that was a pivotalmoment in my career and I can't
get into like the details ofwhat that conversation was about
, but that was a pivotal momentin my career where I had a
choice to either back down andpretty much walk away from what
I was trying to do and what Iwas looking to do in my career,
(17:07):
or I could step up to the plate,take my best swing and move
forward.
And that was almost a year agoor so now.
And I recently went back to myson and it's like remember that
conversation where that guy wentoff on me.
It's like see where we are ayear later, you know, and that's
because I didn't quit.
I, you know I wanted to, to moveforward and I I'm so thankful
(17:30):
he was in the car with me atthat time because he, like
that's just now ingrained in mybrain and in my life, like that
was a pivotal moment for us.
Then he was kind of thecatalyst for that, because I
wanted to show him, you know,watch what's going to happen.
(17:50):
And I guess maybe that's partof what we do as parents, you
know, is sometimes we try toshelter them from our struggles,
our failures.
But if they see a struggle andthey can see us overcome that
struggle, then they can knowthat they can overcome those
struggles as well.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
There's so many great lessonsin there, I think, as business
leaders great lessons in there,I think, as business leaders as
well as parents, you know, Ibelieve in these ultimate
principles of truth and that'sone of them where it's like
don't, if you want to leadsomebody, don't tell them to go
do it, tell them, watch me.
(18:20):
That's I mean that sticks withpeople, that's that hits
different, you know.
And and the struggle component,man, I try to get not having
enough struggle for my childrenis one of my biggest concerns
and so I'm always looking forways that I can struggle in
(18:42):
front of them and I've recentlystarted, over the last month or
two, jumping in really coldwater, really uncomfortable,
uncomfortable, like you know,doing the cold plunges and stuff
.
And because our kids don't seethat right, I've been blessed in
a lot of ways with, with, withmy businesses.
(19:04):
Um, I have a couple of decentvehicles and and and things like
that, and that's what my kidssee.
They see, they see the cars orwhatever.
They don't see the strugglethat went into it.
They don't see the people thatquit on me, they don't see the
people that yelled at me likecustomers and all that.
So I think that, man, that'ssuch a a cool story that, and
(19:28):
the funny thing is that nothingcould teach your son that lesson
like that right, yeah, it's thereal, it's the real world,
stuff for sure I am interestedin hearing about the aviation
side of your career.
I'm especially interested inhearing about how people can
monetize owning airplanes, jetswhatever, when they're not using
(19:53):
them.
And tell me about that.
That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
So in aviation there's a coupleof different ways to make money
.
You can become a broker.
The interesting thing aboutbecoming a broker is there's no
license, no certifications.
You just kind of start, youkind of get yourself going.
I was a youth pastor beforehand,so for those people that might
be listening to your show,they're like what do I do?
I like planes, but how can Imake money with aviation?
Well, being a broker is one waythat you could do that, and
(20:21):
it's the sales skills that youtalk about, it's the marketing
skills that you talk about onyour podcast.
And you can grow your ownbusiness from that perspective
of just listing, selling planes,kind of like a realtor, but
with airplanes or private jets,and you can do both.
You can do everything.
So I mean that might be one waythat your audience would be
(20:41):
interested in.
And then, of course, if you'reat the end of the spectrum,
where you're looking to invest,you know basically what you do
is you buy a jet and you hand itoff to a charter company to
rent it out and work it out, andthey will pay you back.
You know the revenue.
It's kind of.
It's basically like realty,it's like Airbnb, right, and you
(21:03):
and you hand over the asset toa management company that will
handle getting the clients andgenerating income from that
specific asset.
There's a lot to it, obviously,and a lot of things that I
wouldn't advise it for everybody.
There's some things to be awareof, but more and more people
are becoming excited aboutprivate aviation.
I watched a couple of videosfrom Chris Korn and Nick
(21:25):
Marietta and other people likethat that they're like I'm more
excited about private aviation.
I watched a couple of videosfrom Chris Korn and Nick
Marietta and other people likethat that they're like I'm more
excited about private aviationthan I am about real estate
right now because of whatthey're seeing in the market.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
That's interesting.
So it's kind of like buying apiece of property, handing it
over to a property managementcompany, crossing off some dates
or whatever, where it's like,hey, I'm going to be, you know,
I'm going to be using it on onthese dates and uh, fill it up.
What type of fee is wouldsomebody be looking at to to use
(21:57):
?
Uh, so?
So is that what you do as abroker?
To tell me a little bit aboutwhat it means to be a broker, or
are you involved in thetransaction of buy-sell?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So I primarily do the buy-sell.
The investing part is kind of anewer service that we've been
offering.
So I will work as anacquisition broker, but now,
because I've been making theconnections with the operators
and explaining the opportunityto people, now people are hiring
me to be their acquisitionbroker to buy a jet but also
take them through the process ofsetting up that they can buy a
(22:29):
jet and make an investment of it.
I mean, and it's a very longsales cycle you know we're
talking nine months to a yearfrom you know someone talking
with someone and then findingthe right operator, finding the
right jet and then actuallybuying the jet, actually buying
the jet.
So to your original question oflike how it works, you
(22:50):
basically need capital upfrontto buy the jet, and the jet that
we're looking at is going to beprobably $2 million or more.
You know, all the way up tolike a Gulfstream, that's, you
know, 10, 20, whatever milliondollars.
So you're going to at leastneed $2 million to kind of get
into the game.
So it's got high acquisitioncosts and then from there, when
you hand it over to themanagement company, they'll
charge a fee.
It could be a couple thousanddollars a month to manage it.
(23:13):
And then on top of that theywill rent it out by the hour.
And so if it costs you let'ssay $3,500 to operate the jet,
they will charge let's say,$5,500 an hour to the retail
person to use it.
And they'll usually take apercentage, like 15% of that,
that $2,000 per hour margin, orthey'll take a flat rate.
(23:36):
Maybe it's $1,500 of that, youknow of that, uh, or not 1,500,
but a flat rate of that $2,000per hour.
And that's how they make theirmoney that's.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
That's interesting.
Are you seeing people that getinto aviation for the first time
going straight to that type ofmodel, or is this usually people
that you know they've had aprivate jet for a while for
their own purposes?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
they decide to decide to do it but surprisingly
enough, a lot of them arefirst-time aviators.
Uh, because they.
The part of the key is thatyou're not going to use the jet
for yourself, so you reallydon't want someone that's
already using their jet for 100to 100 hours a year, because
then it doesn't give the chartercompany enough time to make
money and make revenue.
(24:20):
It's like buying a vacationhouse that you're going to use
three months, four months out ofthe year, in the summer, in
times of peak, you know whereyou would want to sell it.
So it's usually either firsttime operators or operators that
want to buy another jet intheir portfolio and hand it over
to an operating company.
Oh, and the other thing I forgotto mention was one of the
(24:41):
reasons why people do.
It is because of thedepreciation, so last year you
could actually accelerate.
Do is because of thedepreciation, so last year you
could actually accelerate,depreciate 100% of your purchase
.
So if you bought a $4 millionjet, boom, $4 million in that
year was done.
Now it's down to 80% and it'sgoing to phase itself out, but
the accelerated depreciationthat was applied to private jets
(25:02):
was a huge boost for the pastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's awesome man.
That's very cool.
I definitely have some morequestions that I'd like to ask
you, uh, once we uh pause therecording.
But that's fantastic.
This, this has been great man.
This has been a really coolconversation.
Uh, very applicable.
Um, just people, a lot of mylisteners are.
(25:26):
They're looking to get to thenext level and sometimes, um,
the more practical aspect ofdoing that is is what's
important and maybe holding themback.
So this conversation been great.
People have questions for youor they want to reach out.
What's the best uh way for themto contact you?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Just go to theultimatejetguycom Now.
My social media handles are onthere for Instagram, linkedin,
tiktok, youtube, sotheultimatejetguycom is where
you want to go.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Love it Well.
Thanks for joining us today,Tom.
I appreciate all the great infoand best of luck, man.
Thanks, Alan, Appreciate it.
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