February 7, 2024 • 31 mins
This week's episode delves into the captivating journey of my mother's path to sobriety. From Lerene's early memories growing up in the pub culture of 1970s London to navigating the lively party scene of the 1980s, my mother shares her experiences of being a part of an era defined by its social indulgences. My mum reflects on her own journey, where the lines between social drinking and dependency became blurred, leading to moments of introspection and realization. However, it was a profound turning point in her life when her best friend was diagnosed with cancer, serving as a wake-up call that prompted her to reevaluate her relationship with alcohol.
We also get into:
- stressors that perpetuate the "mommy wine culture"
- if my mum knew I had a drinking problem
- why moderation isn't on the table
- subtle societal cues that normalize drinking
To connect with Nadine:
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Resources from the Episode:
FREEBIE Beginner’s Guide to Dry January (e-book)
FREEBIE Guide to Quitting Alcohol - 30 Day Transformation (course)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello, hello and welcome to theSober Butterfly Your sober
resource for Inspo Stories,lifestyle, and Travel.
It is I, Nadine Mulvina, yourhost, and I'm joined today with
a very special guest.
I've been hoping to get thisperson onto the podcast.
I.
Since I started the podcast andwithout further ado, I have my
(00:28):
mom here, miss Lerene Gooden.
Mommy, how are you?
Hi.
I am absolutely wonderful.
Thank you for asking.
Wow.
I cannot believe this ishappening.
So for a little bit of context,I'm sober.
I've been sober for two and ahalf years, and my mom.
Lerene is also sober, so she'shere to share a little bit of
her story and journey tosobriety, and I'm really
(00:51):
honored, seriously, mom, to haveyou on the show.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I know some of your history, butI would love for you to share
some of your earliest moments ormemories that you may have with
drinking.
So what did that look likegrowing up in the.
What sixties?
I hope I'm not aging too much,but the sixties, seventies.
(01:11):
Okay.
My mom was born in earlysixties, but the seventies in
London with Jamaican parents.
My grandparents are both fromJamaica.
Tell us a little bit about likethat life experience mom.
Growing up as a very young.
Very early teenager.
It was very common for ourparents to, on a Sunday
afternoon, they would take us toa local pub and we have lots of
(01:34):
pubs in London and we would sitoutside the pub with our popcorn
and chips and peanuts while myparents were inside to drinking.
And that was the beginning ofknowing what alcohol was.
And then if we were not at thepub, we would probably be at one
of our relative's homes.
(01:56):
And once again, it justinvolved, everybody was just
drinking.
It was just a normal pattern ofbehavior.
Growing up as a child, it wasjust alcohol was just like
drinking water.
So I'm wondering, mommy, do youthink that influence was more
because our family's Jamaican?
Or do you feel like that wasjust London culture as a whole
growing up then?
I think it's in a whole, ingeneral, I'm not going to blame
(02:19):
the Jamaicans'cause it's just asbad in England, because we had
local pubs on every corner.
We had Scottish, Irish, Britishpeople drinking every weekend,
every day of the week, right Atthese pubs.
It was just normal.
Right, right.
And I'm just wondering,'causebefore backstage.
Before we started recording, youhad shown me a specific drink
that adults used to purchase fortheir kids that had alcohol in
(02:44):
it, correct?
Yes.
What is this drink?
So it's.
Called Cherry be.
And it was very common at ourweddings, any type of parties
that we had, we were given thesebottles of cherry bee.
And in fact it was like drinkinga glass of wine.
But at the point, at thatparticular time, we just thought
(03:04):
it was a little drink that theygave us.
It was supposedly meant to beharmless.
But if you really look at theingredients and the alcohol
level in the bottle, it was not.
Made for children.
Okay.
It wasn't made for children?
No.
But it was only strictly drunkby children.
Not only, but they used to giveus a little bottle of this
(03:25):
cherry bee.
And so I think in society, theEuropeans are seen as being
more, what's the word I'mlooking for?
More open, when it comes to.
Provisions around alcohol.
So for example, like theEuropean mentality is that, oh,
if you expose your young toalcohol at an early age, there
won't be such a fascination orcuriosity about drinking and
(03:49):
binging later in life.
So I guess my question is, doyou think that was the mentality
that they had?
Oh, if we expose our kids toalcohol at a young age, then it
won't be such a fascination forthem.
In some respects that couldpossibly be true.
However, I don't think they werelooking at it in that manner.
To them they found alcohol wasinnocent and it was just
(04:12):
something that was pleasurable.
They just wanted to share itwith everybody.
I don't think they realizedthere could be a danger or harm
with this.
Okay.
Fair.
Fair.
So it's just like a symptom ofthe times basically.
Yes.
Got it.
Okay.
So growing up it was normalizedfor you, you saw everyone
drinking, and then what did lifelook like when you were a bit
older?
So as we became teenagers and ofage to actually be able to buy
(04:34):
our own liquor.
And how old was that by the way?
In England?
I would say between.
17.
Yeah.
It started at seventeens when itwas legalized back then for us
to be able to buy alcohol sameas smoking.
It was just a normal behavior weused to have parties and we
called them bottle parties,meaning that somebody would be
(04:56):
having a party at their houseand it was a bottle party,
meaning we had to bring a bottleof alcohol.
Right.
And that's what was considered abottle party.
And it was very common in mydays of growing up.
And this is how we started todrink.
We just used to drinkcontinuously until we were
pretty much, we thought it wasfunny at the time until we was
(05:17):
just, I wouldn't sayunconscious, but we were drunk.
That was like.
Seventies.
If I could go back to any timeperiod, I think in the world I
would want to spend a day in the1980s in London.
Like the height of your maybeparty girl years.
Can I say that?
Party girl years?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So what was that like mom,growing up in London in the
(05:38):
eighties?
So if drinking was likenormalized and a part of the
culture, I am curious to knowwhat that looked like and then
also what things were more taboothat People were frowned upon
for doing Yeah.
So, a typical weekend for mewould be to along with my
sister, my older sister, thatis, we would go to nightclubs.
Every party that we went toinvolved alcohol some people
(06:03):
were participating in some otherdrug taking.
I would imagine.
I actually had a friend of minevery close friend of mine.
I was at school with her for mywhole entire years.
And when she had her firstchild, I had gone to visit her
and.
She was sitting down with Iguess the tube of a pen and she
(06:25):
was puffing with a lighter and Ijust had no idea what it was
that she was doing.
And I said to her, withoutmentioning names, what are you,
whatcha doing?
And she had just mentioned to methat if anybody ever gives you
this, they are not your friend.
I said, but what is this whatchadoing?
And she said, this was chasingthe dragon.
(06:48):
And I'm like, I still was sodumb.
I didn't even realize what shewas talking about.
And then she said, it's heroine.
And I was just flabbergasted.
I just could not believe thiswas my dear friend from school
sitting down as she considerschasing the dragon at this
point.
She had children in the houseand then she pretty much passed
(07:10):
out.
And I was so afraid.
Because the children were there.
And I called her mother and Isaid to her mom, I said, Hey
your daughter is just passed outhere with the kids.
And her mother was totally awareof what she was doing.
And she had just told me.
just leave.
Just go.
You shouldn't be.
Subject to this, you shouldn'thave seen this.
(07:31):
Just go, it's okay.
So her mom was aware of her, soher mother was aware of, they
didn't know how to deal with it.
She had just told me to leaveand that was pretty much the
last time I associated with herbecause I didn't wanna indulge
myself, you know, in that typeof a situation.
And with that type of a drug.
'cause my drug was alcohol.
(07:51):
Right.
Right.
So it sounds like there's twoworlds kind of parallel this
time.
Like, so you have like the partyscene, which is like still
people drinking, but then youalso have more of like an
underground scene where peopleare doing more heavy drug usage.
Absolutely, yes.
Okay.
And I definitely wasn't a partof the heavy drug taken, even
(08:12):
though I knew people that didit, but that wasn't my thing.
And what do you think.
Kept you on the more of likethe, I'm just here for a good
time.
I'm gonna only drink what keptyou on that pathway?
I don't know if I would bestrong enough to stay away from
that when it seems so alluringand especially when you know
people who are also doing thingslike that.
(08:33):
So what do you think kept youmore grounded?
I.
I would definitely say theresult of seeing their behavior
after they indulged in thosetype of drugs.
I saw that.
It clearly, they just, I mean,being drunk, you're disorderly,
but being high on heroin, youare passed out on the floor and
(08:54):
am I like, I just didn't wantany part of that.
It's not attractive.
No, it was absolutely notattractive.
It actually was frightening.
And I got afraid.
And then I had seen other peoplethat were doing what they called
I guess it would be tripping.
Like acid.
Yes, acid.
And their behavior was justfrightening.
It just scared me.
(09:14):
I just didn't want any part ofthat.
Was this a common, like if youwent to like house parties and
stuff?
that's what I'm imagining.
Is this, like, would you see itlike a house party or is this
like in the club?
This is more in the, this is theclub scene.
Okay.
House parties, you never reallysaw that.
It was mainly people really justgenerally.
Generally having been a goodtime drinking and dancing.
Okay.
(09:35):
But at the clubs now, this iswhere you saw that type of,
people taking drugs.
And what was the club scenelike?
I'm just curious, like what kindof music were people into at the
time?
Or what kind of scene were youon?
'cause like there's differentmusic scenes, so what were you
into at this time?
So I'm extremely versatile.
I like anything from rock toreggae to garage.
(09:58):
There was, I'm just mommy.
I don't think people know whatgarage music is.
It was an extremely fast pacedelectronic type of music and um,
that's absolutely where you sawa lot of people taking drugs.
Yeah.
I feel like the same is truetoday.
Yeah.
Like the e that and that scene.
Yes, absolutely.
So I, I kind of withdrew fromthat type of, um, clubbing and
(10:22):
just resorted to staying home.
Or going, just sticking to houseparties.
Okay, so can I say this?
I hope you're okay with mesaying this.
If not, I'll take it out.
But, you're from a big family.
You have.
How many you have?
Three sisters, two brothers.
Mm-Hmm.
And I think like out of thegirls at least, you were
considered the more of the, therebel.
I'll say it.
Can I say that?
(10:42):
Mm-Hmm.
Is that true?
Sure.
Absolutely.
You agree with me?
Yes.
Okay.
I do.
So what, what do you think madeyou more the rebel?
looking back at my childhood, Idon't think I was really, should
have been called a rebel.
I was a typical teenager.
Mm-Hmm.
And my parents were just beyondstraight.
Right.
(11:03):
So we were not, we were not aallowed to do anything.
And I just want you to be ateenager.
Mm-Hmm.
So, um.
That's how I got the name.
They just labeled me a rebelbecause I wanted to go out.
It's not like I was doinganything really bad.
Right.
I just wanted to go out and havefun.
Fair.
Okay.
And that's when you used to goout, you'd go to the clubs and
(11:23):
stuff with your friends?
Exactly, yes.
Got it.
Right.
Yeah.
And so they labeled me a rebelwhen in fact I just was a
typical child.
Okay.
Got it.
In a very strict, helpful.
In extremely strict.
Yes.
The reason why I brought up thefact that you were considered
kind of like the rebel in thefamily is because you moved out
pretty young.
Yes.
What age did you move out?
Um, I think I was probably.
(11:45):
I mean 18.
18.
Yeah.
That is young, especially forthe Times.
Mm-Hmm.
And for England,'cause it's suchan expensive city, most people
stay Yes.
You know, living at home untilthey're 30 almost.
So that's why I say like, Ithink you leaving at a young age
was, or was it a result of howstrict your family was?
Absolutely.
Definitely.
And so that gave you morefreedom, I'm assuming, to
(12:06):
Absolutely.
Go off and do your own thing.
Yes.
So what was the height,, of yourdrinking or your partying?
And what changed for you?
Okay, so this was just prettymuch a normal way of living for
me.
I pretty much drank all throughmy twenties and my thirties,
even my forties I just used todrink because I just was grown
(12:28):
up thinking this was the mostnormal thing to do, and I just
drank out of just drinking, justnot even,, thinking that there
was anything wrong withdrinking.
After I had my child, which isNadine, who is the host of the
show.
Oh, thanks mom.
And I guess, you know, the firstcouple of years of being a
parent, you are actually just astay home mom and you find
(12:49):
yourself drinking.
So I would drink, um, because Icouldn't go out and then.
Without even realizing, youknow, that you woke up with a
headache and then you realizedthat you had drunk off a whole
bottle and you didn't evenrealize.
I wanna just highlight somethingreally quickly.
I think it's important to notethat you being a new mom as well
(13:12):
as.
Coupled with the fact that you,my dad got a divorce probably
had an impact on your mentalhealth and your stress levels,
right?
Like that's har hard to raisekid by yourself.
Oh, absolutely.
I was extremely stressed.
So I, I just want to emphasizethat.
'cause I'm, I think it'simportant to like share that
part of the story too so peopleknow like you were under
tremendous amount of stress whenwas under, when you doing this
(13:34):
under Yes I have.
And also you as like listeners.
Like, my mom also got marriedvery young.
I did, yes.
So, yeah, just to pick up fromthere, I wanted to also include
that,'cause I think that'simportant for you to recognize,
and there were other factors.
With the breakup of course, thatI really don't wish to discuss.
That caused a lot of mentalstress for me.
(13:55):
So, um, yeah, I started to drinka little more.
After you had gone to bed,that's when I would drink myself
to sleep.
I wasn't on the road drinkingand driving, but that became a
habit it sounds like, you know,you went through your party girl
years, who hasn't.
Then you had me, it turned moreinto like a, that's mommy wine
(14:17):
drinking culture.
It sounds like to me, like a lotof mothers feel the stress of
motherhood and they drink tocompensate for some of that.
Towards the end of your drinkingcareer.
How were you using alcohol anddo you feel like you ever hit a
quote unquote rock bottom?
So, yeah, absolutely.
(14:37):
I do feel that I did hit a rockbottom, and it was during the
beginning of Covid once again, alot of stress.
Took place at the beginning ofCovid.
I lost my job after many years,so of course I started drinking
with the shutdown.
There was nothing more to do,but to drink.
And then during this time, myvery close friend was diagnosed
(15:00):
with, a very serious illness.
And that was just a rudeawakening for me.
This was a friend that I used towork out with.
We used to drink together, wedid everything together, and
then all of a sudden she had acritical illness that literally
we could have killed her.
(15:21):
And the main thing that she hadto change was her diets.
And I wanted to take that roadwith her.
So I decided to cut out myalcohol.
That's amazing.
I did not even slow down.
I literally just put the bottledown and I've never picked it up
again.
And I think that's such atestament to.
Your willpower, by the way.
(15:41):
I'm not recommending that peoplenecessarily follow that path
that my mom took.
'cause to be honest with you,mom, I don't know how you went
from being a daily drinker,especially in covid to full stop
quitting overnight.
I think a lot of people can't dothat, and that's obviously like.
Amazing.
I also wanna just let peopleknow, like you did the same
thing from smoking cigarettes.
(16:02):
I did, yes.
My mom smoked cigarettes For howlong before?
Like 30 years.
And I took my last puff one dayafter I had a serious, diagnosed
of bronchitis and I just putthat cigarette down and I never
picked it up to this day.
No patches, no gum.
No patches, no gum.
I put the cigarette down andI've never picked it up since,
(16:23):
and it's been over 25 years.
So once again, not recommendingthat per se,'cause I don't know.
If many people could do that,have that strength or that
willpower.
But what I know the what I knowlike the reason why you quit
drinking and why you quitsmoking, but how, like what was
going through your mind, Iguess, in that process of
saying, okay, I'm done.
(16:44):
I have a physical dependence onthis, but I'm still going to
just say no more.
Once again, I think it was thediagnosis of my friend.
When I realized, well, such thatshe had been diagnosed with a
such a, can I just say she hadcancer?
Yeah.
And I was just flabbergasted.
I was just in shock.
(17:05):
I just could not believe my dearfriend.
Had cancer.
So it was almost like mortalitystaring at you.
Yes, and it was a rudeawakening.
I realized that things havegotta change, you know, because
I'm older than her, by the way,and I just thought, well, I'm
very lucky that I got to my ageand I was not the one that was
diagnosed with cancer.
(17:26):
So the few years that I haveleft, I just wanna make them as
clean as possible.
I love that.
I love that.
I think that, going back to theCovid thing, so.
My mom and I, we lived togetherfor maybe a month in the
pandemic in the beginning, andit was a tumultuous time for
both of us.
I felt like it put a strain onour relationship.
(17:46):
First of all, going back to livewith your parents after, you
know, so long is in, in and ofitself stressful.
But I think to your point.
You losing your job?
Me trying to work from home.
Another contention between uswas that I, and I think I've
shared this on the show before,but I was still going out, like,
don't, I don't wanna say, don'task me where I wasn't going to
(18:09):
the club obviously because itwasn't open, but I was going to
friends' houses and I wasdrinking daily.
So both of our drinking probablywas at a pinnacle during the.
Pandemic and it manifesteddifferently.
I felt like your drinking wasmore depressive, like you would
often just be in your room andwouldn't come out.
(18:29):
I couldn't, there was nowhere togo.
But even within the home?
Yeah.
Like you were just in the confi,like you would be in the dark
basically, kind of thing?
Yeah, because it was verydifficult because.
Nadine was still working, so Iwas kind of confided to the
bedroom because you was workingin the front room.
Well, that's true.
I also think though, like youwere obsessing over the news and
(18:53):
it was a lot of like, I don'tknow, like fearmongering from
the news.
Yeah.
Like I just felt like.
It was difficult.
And I'm not blaming you, like ofcourse you should stay well
versed about what's going onwith the pandemic.
But at the same time, I wastaking the anti approach of
that.
Like I was like, I see howdepressed my mom is.
I don't wanna be like that.
So I was taking the oppositetake, which I don't know if that
(19:14):
was the best in hindsightdecision for myself, but it was
like I wanted to be out of thehouse as much as possible.
I was going to my friend's houseand like I would just drink over
there.
So I was being a social drinker,like a subgroup of people I hung
out with.
I wasn't just hanging out withrandom people every day.
But that was like my drinkingcrew.
And then I'd come back and youwould be like, passed out from
your drinking and it just wasnot a good mix.
(19:36):
But you found your way, as didI, kind of took us on different
journeys.
And I'm sorry that it was thediagnosis of your friend's
cancer that showed you thelight, but your friend is akay
now.
Yes.
And B, there's beauty in that,you know, discovery because you
were able to reach sobriety, Andnow a quick word from our
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Yeah, I would imagine the lastday of my drinking would've been
January, 2022.
And was there anythingremarkable about that day?
(21:51):
Um, yeah, I left um, a quarter,a bottle in the bottle.
I didn't finish it.
Interesting.
Yes.
So were you at home or were youat someone's house?
How did that work?
I was actually in the process ofmoving and I had gone to stay my
last day in the area that I wasstaying at and I had brought
that drink with me'cause I wasstill adamant about, I'm not
(22:12):
throwing any alcohol away.
Mm-Hmm.
I brought it with me.
I just never drank it.
While I was there, I got up inthe morning and hit the road and
I just left that bottle thereand I never looked back at any
alcohol ever again.
Wow.
And so how has your life, or hasyour life changed since giving
(22:32):
up alcohol?
I hate to say giving a aboutalcohol.
That sounds depressing.
Like liberating yourself fromalcohol.
I actually don't even understandto this day why I was drinking.
There was just no benefitwhatsoever.
I don't have any headaches Thefunny thing is I always use
alcohol for sleep.
(22:54):
I thought I couldn't sleep if Ididn't have a drink.
Mm.
That's common.
I feel like a lot people andYes, absolutely.
And after, not drinking, Irealized I actually have a
better quality of sleep.
Yeah.
I sleep way better than I didwhen I had alcohol in me.
I hear that a lot.
I didn't so much use it.
To sleep.
(23:14):
I think I mainly used alcohol tonumb and to be social, but I
think the quality of sleep,obviously you're right,
improves.
I, I see it as like you're notpassing out because how many
times can you reminisce or thinkback to using alcohol to.
Quote unquote sleep, and thenrealizing like, oh, I don't
remember actually falling sleep.
(23:36):
Well, yeah, I mean, there aretimes when I was drinking, and
living alone has a lot to dowith it, and that's actually
even worse because when you aredrinking by yourself, you are
not speaking to anybody.
Mm-Hmm.
So if the phone rang and youstarted to speak, it's at that
moment you realize that you'redrunk.
Oh my God.
That would drive me crazy.
(23:56):
Yeah.
You don't even know that you'redrunk until somebody had called
you.
Perhaps because you're notsitting there talking to
yourself.
Um, I can relate to that.
And then perhaps the phone wouldring, and then when you answer
the phone, that's when you'reslurring.
And then you say to yourself, ohmy God, I'm really drunk.
And I would not have been awareof that if that phone had not
(24:17):
rung.
You said something reallyimportant though, and I do think
the loneliness piece, livingalone and being like lonely.
Like you look for thatconnection and so drinking like,
oh, you're like, oh, you're lessinhibited, so you wanna connect
to people and call them and youdon't think you've been drinking
of course, but, or you have beendrinking.
You don't think that you'redrunk.
(24:37):
That's right.
But then when you cool someone.
AKA me, I would immediately knowwhen you'd been drinking.
Yes, absolutely.
And it would just drive me upthe wall.
Yes.
but that's not a place ofjudgment.
That is just something that wenoted and we worked through
that.
Like we even set boundaries.
Like I would be like, pleasedon't call me if you've been
drinking, even if you think thatyou are not drunk.
'cause I could tell, as I'm sureyou could tell, if I called you
(24:59):
and I'd been drinking and that'sexactly what I'm, that's what
I'm getting at.
When you drink by yourself, youreally don't know that you're
drunk.
Yeah.
I, I, so when I picked the phoneup, I didn't even realize I was
drunk until I actually spoke.
Yeah, I see.
I see.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh,'cause you weren't likeactually speaking.
Yeah.
'cause I wasn't talking.
I might pick the phone upthinking in my mind.
(25:19):
Okay, let me just call Nadine.
Oh, I see.
Yeah.
But I don't know that I'm drunkuntil I actually start speaking.
No, that makes sense.
I, I could, that makes sense tome.
I, I felt like I, in Covid.
Definitely used to drink alone.
'cause I lived alone too.
but in general I think I wasmore of a social drinker and so
I would know when I was drunk.
(25:40):
I think there was one timeactually where I did an
Instagram live with a friend andI was drunk and you.
The next day was like furious.
You were like, yes.
You were like, you have to takethat down.
You were so drunk'cause youwatched it.
And I was, I didn't know I wasdrunk.
I was just probably spilling allof the tea, telling all of my,
my, my business, for everyone tosee on Instagram.
(26:02):
So yeah, I definitely can relateto that.
okay.
So kind of wrapping up andwinding down here, mom, so
better quality sleep has been abenefit for you.
What other benefits have yourrelationships changed?
I think personally.
Injecting myself here.
Our relationship has definitelygrown stronger since we're both
sober.
Would you agree with that?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
(26:23):
I think my, relationship witheverybody and everything has
changed.
the point and the key of this,um, I have no regrets becoming
sober as it's called.
Are you air quoing sobriety?
No, I'm not.
I'm just saying that, you know,I don't miss it.
I can walk past a liquor storewith no problem.
(26:44):
You could drink as much beer oralcohol in front of me.
It doesn't entice me.
I don't get temptation.
I can pour you a drink.
Um.
I had a relative that came tovisit me, by the way.
And because she realized that Iwasn't drinking, she was afraid
to drink, and then she called meto the corner and she just said,
look, I know you're notdrinking.
Do you mind if I have a drink?
(27:05):
And I felt insulted.
Yeah.
I've, I've gotten the samequestion.
I think people mean well by it.
Yeah.
But I can see Why did you feelinsult?
Insult?
I can share why I get kind oflike.
Annoyed.
I wouldn't say insulted, but I'mlike, I'm not condemning
alcohol.
It's just a choice that I madenot to drink.
If you want to drink and you'regonna stay, you know, without
(27:27):
getting drunk, I don't have aproblem with that.
I.
And I don't feel that you needto hide your drinking in front
of me if you feel free to have adrink.
I, I'm not feeling bad ortempted.
I'm a grown woman.
If I wanted to pick up a glassof wine, you couldn't stop me.
That's a great segue.
Do you feel like you could evermoderate alcohol?
(27:47):
I actually don't have a tastefor it.
I personally feel like, could Imoderate drinking?
Perhaps.
But I don't want to risk all ofthe joy and the, all of the
progress I've made by drinkingagain.
I just don't see the purpose.
I don't drink because I chosenot to drink.
(28:08):
I don't want to drink inmoderation.
I just don't see if there's apurpose.
There's a need for me to drinkalcohol in moderation.
If I'm gonna drink, why would Idrink in moderation?
I just don't have the urge forit.
I just don't want it.
Yeah.
And that's beautiful.
Yeah, I love that answer.
Yeah, I don't need to moderateit.
(28:28):
I just don't want it.
I don't want to have to drinkagain.
I just don't even see there's nobenefit in alcohol whatsoever.
You know, this illusion aboutdrinking two glasses of wine
again, is good for your heart.
I don't believe that, but if,and science doesn't back that up
actually.
Right.
And I'm just saying, I justdon't see there's a need for me
to drink alcohol, period.
I just don't want it.
(28:49):
Love that.
Okay.
My final, final question for youis because you are my very
special person and as my mother,I'm just wondering, do you feel
like there was any parallelsbetween your relationship with
alcohol and my relationship withalcohol as your daughter?
I actually didn't realize thatyou had a problem until you
became sober.
(29:09):
Really?
Yeah.
I never acknowledged it.
Never had any inclination, anyideas that there would possibly
have been a problem until youbecame sober?
I.
Really?
Yes.
Really?
Yeah.
Even after like all the stuffthat I like, the trouble I got
into, so, but that was college,Nadine.
(29:29):
I mean, you weren't the onlyone.
Mm.
That's what college I've workedwith college students and the
things that they told me theydid when they were drinking.
It was just, it's just that'swhat college students did.
I feel like you were alwaysweary with me though in driving.
Like you would always and likeso, but you didn't think I
actually had like an A problemwith alcohol.
(29:51):
I didn't think you had a problemwith alcohol.
But I used to say to you,please, if you're gonna drink,
please, I'd rather you juststay.
What do you mean?
The night stay where you arerather than to attempt to drive
home?
I said that to you multipletimes.
Yes you have.
That's actually interesting tome.
I thought that you may have hadsome kind of inclination that I
had a problem with drinking.
(30:11):
No, I didn't.
I just didn't want you to drinkand drive.
I haven think about that.
And do you think that you had aproblem with drinking?
Did I have a problem withdrinking?
Um, it's very hard for me to sayyes and no to that because at
the time when I was drinking, Ididn't feel that it was a
problem.
And like I explained, I realizedthat I'm doing more harm to my
(30:32):
body than good.
Mm.
And that's the reason why Istopped.
That's beautiful.
Okay, mom, I really appreciateyou coming on.
I've been dying to have you as aguest and I'm so glad that we
had this chance to talk a littlebit about both of our history
with drinking and I, I got tolike share some of your story
with listeners at home.
How do you feel?
Okay.
(30:52):
Yeah.
Very good.
Okay.
You had so much apprehensionabout coming on the show, but
you did it.
Okay.
We did it.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Charlie.
It was a pleasure.
I love you.
Okay.
I love you too.
Okay guys.
So that's all I have to share.
I also wanna say thank you forbeing here, and thank you for
allowing me to hold space inyour day as you listen to this
(31:13):
podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
(31:34):
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
Bye bye.
Hello, hello and welcome to theSober Butterfly Your sober
resource for Inspo Stories,lifestyle, and Travel.
It is I, Nadine Mulvina, yourhost, and I'm joined today with
a very special guest.
I've been hoping to get thisperson onto the podcast.
I.
Since I started the podcast andwithout further ado, I have my
(00:28):
mom here, miss Lerene Gooden.
Mommy, how are you?
Hi.
I am absolutely wonderful.
Thank you for asking.
Wow.
I cannot believe this ishappening.
So for a little bit of context,I'm sober.
I've been sober for two and ahalf years, and my mom.
Lerene is also sober, so she'shere to share a little bit of
her story and journey tosobriety, and I'm really
(00:51):
honored, seriously, mom, to haveyou on the show.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I know some of your history, butI would love for you to share
some of your earliest moments ormemories that you may have with
drinking.
So what did that look likegrowing up in the.
What sixties?
I hope I'm not aging too much,but the sixties, seventies.
(01:11):
Okay.
My mom was born in earlysixties, but the seventies in
London with Jamaican parents.
My grandparents are both fromJamaica.
Tell us a little bit about likethat life experience mom.
Growing up as a very young.
Very early teenager.
It was very common for ourparents to, on a Sunday
afternoon, they would take us toa local pub and we have lots of
(01:34):
pubs in London and we would sitoutside the pub with our popcorn
and chips and peanuts while myparents were inside to drinking.
And that was the beginning ofknowing what alcohol was.
And then if we were not at thepub, we would probably be at one
of our relative's homes.
(01:56):
And once again, it justinvolved, everybody was just
drinking.
It was just a normal pattern ofbehavior.
Growing up as a child, it wasjust alcohol was just like
drinking water.
So I'm wondering, mommy, do youthink that influence was more
because our family's Jamaican?
Or do you feel like that wasjust London culture as a whole
growing up then?
I think it's in a whole, ingeneral, I'm not going to blame
(02:19):
the Jamaicans'cause it's just asbad in England, because we had
local pubs on every corner.
We had Scottish, Irish, Britishpeople drinking every weekend,
every day of the week, right Atthese pubs.
It was just normal.
Right, right.
And I'm just wondering,'causebefore backstage.
Before we started recording, youhad shown me a specific drink
that adults used to purchase fortheir kids that had alcohol in
(02:44):
it, correct?
Yes.
What is this drink?
So it's.
Called Cherry be.
And it was very common at ourweddings, any type of parties
that we had, we were given thesebottles of cherry bee.
And in fact it was like drinkinga glass of wine.
But at the point, at thatparticular time, we just thought
(03:04):
it was a little drink that theygave us.
It was supposedly meant to beharmless.
But if you really look at theingredients and the alcohol
level in the bottle, it was not.
Made for children.
Okay.
It wasn't made for children?
No.
But it was only strictly drunkby children.
Not only, but they used to giveus a little bottle of this
(03:25):
cherry bee.
And so I think in society, theEuropeans are seen as being
more, what's the word I'mlooking for?
More open, when it comes to.
Provisions around alcohol.
So for example, like theEuropean mentality is that, oh,
if you expose your young toalcohol at an early age, there
won't be such a fascination orcuriosity about drinking and
(03:49):
binging later in life.
So I guess my question is, doyou think that was the mentality
that they had?
Oh, if we expose our kids toalcohol at a young age, then it
won't be such a fascination forthem.
In some respects that couldpossibly be true.
However, I don't think they werelooking at it in that manner.
To them they found alcohol wasinnocent and it was just
(04:12):
something that was pleasurable.
They just wanted to share itwith everybody.
I don't think they realizedthere could be a danger or harm
with this.
Okay.
Fair.
Fair.
So it's just like a symptom ofthe times basically.
Yes.
Got it.
Okay.
So growing up it was normalizedfor you, you saw everyone
drinking, and then what did lifelook like when you were a bit
older?
So as we became teenagers and ofage to actually be able to buy
(04:34):
our own liquor.
And how old was that by the way?
In England?
I would say between.
17.
Yeah.
It started at seventeens when itwas legalized back then for us
to be able to buy alcohol sameas smoking.
It was just a normal behavior weused to have parties and we
called them bottle parties,meaning that somebody would be
(04:56):
having a party at their houseand it was a bottle party,
meaning we had to bring a bottleof alcohol.
Right.
And that's what was considered abottle party.
And it was very common in mydays of growing up.
And this is how we started todrink.
We just used to drinkcontinuously until we were
pretty much, we thought it wasfunny at the time until we was
(05:17):
just, I wouldn't sayunconscious, but we were drunk.
That was like.
Seventies.
If I could go back to any timeperiod, I think in the world I
would want to spend a day in the1980s in London.
Like the height of your maybeparty girl years.
Can I say that?
Party girl years?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So what was that like mom,growing up in London in the
(05:38):
eighties?
So if drinking was likenormalized and a part of the
culture, I am curious to knowwhat that looked like and then
also what things were more taboothat People were frowned upon
for doing Yeah.
So, a typical weekend for mewould be to along with my
sister, my older sister, thatis, we would go to nightclubs.
Every party that we went toinvolved alcohol some people
(06:03):
were participating in some otherdrug taking.
I would imagine.
I actually had a friend of minevery close friend of mine.
I was at school with her for mywhole entire years.
And when she had her firstchild, I had gone to visit her
and.
She was sitting down with Iguess the tube of a pen and she
(06:25):
was puffing with a lighter and Ijust had no idea what it was
that she was doing.
And I said to her, withoutmentioning names, what are you,
whatcha doing?
And she had just mentioned to methat if anybody ever gives you
this, they are not your friend.
I said, but what is this whatchadoing?
And she said, this was chasingthe dragon.
(06:48):
And I'm like, I still was sodumb.
I didn't even realize what shewas talking about.
And then she said, it's heroine.
And I was just flabbergasted.
I just could not believe thiswas my dear friend from school
sitting down as she considerschasing the dragon at this
point.
She had children in the houseand then she pretty much passed
(07:10):
out.
And I was so afraid.
Because the children were there.
And I called her mother and Isaid to her mom, I said, Hey
your daughter is just passed outhere with the kids.
And her mother was totally awareof what she was doing.
And she had just told me.
just leave.
Just go.
You shouldn't be.
Subject to this, you shouldn'thave seen this.
(07:31):
Just go, it's okay.
So her mom was aware of her, soher mother was aware of, they
didn't know how to deal with it.
She had just told me to leaveand that was pretty much the
last time I associated with herbecause I didn't wanna indulge
myself, you know, in that typeof a situation.
And with that type of a drug.
'cause my drug was alcohol.
(07:51):
Right.
Right.
So it sounds like there's twoworlds kind of parallel this
time.
Like, so you have like the partyscene, which is like still
people drinking, but then youalso have more of like an
underground scene where peopleare doing more heavy drug usage.
Absolutely, yes.
Okay.
And I definitely wasn't a partof the heavy drug taken, even
(08:12):
though I knew people that didit, but that wasn't my thing.
And what do you think.
Kept you on the more of likethe, I'm just here for a good
time.
I'm gonna only drink what keptyou on that pathway?
I don't know if I would bestrong enough to stay away from
that when it seems so alluringand especially when you know
people who are also doing thingslike that.
(08:33):
So what do you think kept youmore grounded?
I.
I would definitely say theresult of seeing their behavior
after they indulged in thosetype of drugs.
I saw that.
It clearly, they just, I mean,being drunk, you're disorderly,
but being high on heroin, youare passed out on the floor and
(08:54):
am I like, I just didn't wantany part of that.
It's not attractive.
No, it was absolutely notattractive.
It actually was frightening.
And I got afraid.
And then I had seen other peoplethat were doing what they called
I guess it would be tripping.
Like acid.
Yes, acid.
And their behavior was justfrightening.
It just scared me.
(09:14):
I just didn't want any part ofthat.
Was this a common, like if youwent to like house parties and
stuff?
that's what I'm imagining.
Is this, like, would you see itlike a house party or is this
like in the club?
This is more in the, this is theclub scene.
Okay.
House parties, you never reallysaw that.
It was mainly people really justgenerally.
Generally having been a goodtime drinking and dancing.
Okay.
(09:35):
But at the clubs now, this iswhere you saw that type of,
people taking drugs.
And what was the club scenelike?
I'm just curious, like what kindof music were people into at the
time?
Or what kind of scene were youon?
'cause like there's differentmusic scenes, so what were you
into at this time?
So I'm extremely versatile.
I like anything from rock toreggae to garage.
(09:58):
There was, I'm just mommy.
I don't think people know whatgarage music is.
It was an extremely fast pacedelectronic type of music and um,
that's absolutely where you sawa lot of people taking drugs.
Yeah.
I feel like the same is truetoday.
Yeah.
Like the e that and that scene.
Yes, absolutely.
So I, I kind of withdrew fromthat type of, um, clubbing and
(10:22):
just resorted to staying home.
Or going, just sticking to houseparties.
Okay, so can I say this?
I hope you're okay with mesaying this.
If not, I'll take it out.
But, you're from a big family.
You have.
How many you have?
Three sisters, two brothers.
Mm-Hmm.
And I think like out of thegirls at least, you were
considered the more of the, therebel.
I'll say it.
Can I say that?
(10:42):
Mm-Hmm.
Is that true?
Sure.
Absolutely.
You agree with me?
Yes.
Okay.
I do.
So what, what do you think madeyou more the rebel?
looking back at my childhood, Idon't think I was really, should
have been called a rebel.
I was a typical teenager.
Mm-Hmm.
And my parents were just beyondstraight.
Right.
(11:03):
So we were not, we were not aallowed to do anything.
And I just want you to be ateenager.
Mm-Hmm.
So, um.
That's how I got the name.
They just labeled me a rebelbecause I wanted to go out.
It's not like I was doinganything really bad.
Right.
I just wanted to go out and havefun.
Fair.
Okay.
And that's when you used to goout, you'd go to the clubs and
(11:23):
stuff with your friends?
Exactly, yes.
Got it.
Right.
Yeah.
And so they labeled me a rebelwhen in fact I just was a
typical child.
Okay.
Got it.
In a very strict, helpful.
In extremely strict.
Yes.
The reason why I brought up thefact that you were considered
kind of like the rebel in thefamily is because you moved out
pretty young.
Yes.
What age did you move out?
Um, I think I was probably.
(11:45):
I mean 18.
18.
Yeah.
That is young, especially forthe Times.
Mm-Hmm.
And for England,'cause it's suchan expensive city, most people
stay Yes.
You know, living at home untilthey're 30 almost.
So that's why I say like, Ithink you leaving at a young age
was, or was it a result of howstrict your family was?
Absolutely.
Definitely.
And so that gave you morefreedom, I'm assuming, to
(12:06):
Absolutely.
Go off and do your own thing.
Yes.
So what was the height,, of yourdrinking or your partying?
And what changed for you?
Okay, so this was just prettymuch a normal way of living for
me.
I pretty much drank all throughmy twenties and my thirties,
even my forties I just used todrink because I just was grown
(12:28):
up thinking this was the mostnormal thing to do, and I just
drank out of just drinking, justnot even,, thinking that there
was anything wrong withdrinking.
After I had my child, which isNadine, who is the host of the
show.
Oh, thanks mom.
And I guess, you know, the firstcouple of years of being a
parent, you are actually just astay home mom and you find
(12:49):
yourself drinking.
So I would drink, um, because Icouldn't go out and then.
Without even realizing, youknow, that you woke up with a
headache and then you realizedthat you had drunk off a whole
bottle and you didn't evenrealize.
I wanna just highlight somethingreally quickly.
I think it's important to notethat you being a new mom as well
(13:12):
as.
Coupled with the fact that you,my dad got a divorce probably
had an impact on your mentalhealth and your stress levels,
right?
Like that's har hard to raisekid by yourself.
Oh, absolutely.
I was extremely stressed.
So I, I just want to emphasizethat.
'cause I'm, I think it'simportant to like share that
part of the story too so peopleknow like you were under
tremendous amount of stress whenwas under, when you doing this
(13:34):
under Yes I have.
And also you as like listeners.
Like, my mom also got marriedvery young.
I did, yes.
So, yeah, just to pick up fromthere, I wanted to also include
that,'cause I think that'simportant for you to recognize,
and there were other factors.
With the breakup of course, thatI really don't wish to discuss.
That caused a lot of mentalstress for me.
(13:55):
So, um, yeah, I started to drinka little more.
After you had gone to bed,that's when I would drink myself
to sleep.
I wasn't on the road drinkingand driving, but that became a
habit it sounds like, you know,you went through your party girl
years, who hasn't.
Then you had me, it turned moreinto like a, that's mommy wine
(14:17):
drinking culture.
It sounds like to me, like a lotof mothers feel the stress of
motherhood and they drink tocompensate for some of that.
Towards the end of your drinkingcareer.
How were you using alcohol anddo you feel like you ever hit a
quote unquote rock bottom?
So, yeah, absolutely.
(14:37):
I do feel that I did hit a rockbottom, and it was during the
beginning of Covid once again, alot of stress.
Took place at the beginning ofCovid.
I lost my job after many years,so of course I started drinking
with the shutdown.
There was nothing more to do,but to drink.
And then during this time, myvery close friend was diagnosed
(15:00):
with, a very serious illness.
And that was just a rudeawakening for me.
This was a friend that I used towork out with.
We used to drink together, wedid everything together, and
then all of a sudden she had acritical illness that literally
we could have killed her.
(15:21):
And the main thing that she hadto change was her diets.
And I wanted to take that roadwith her.
So I decided to cut out myalcohol.
That's amazing.
I did not even slow down.
I literally just put the bottledown and I've never picked it up
again.
And I think that's such atestament to.
Your willpower, by the way.
(15:41):
I'm not recommending that peoplenecessarily follow that path
that my mom took.
'cause to be honest with you,mom, I don't know how you went
from being a daily drinker,especially in covid to full stop
quitting overnight.
I think a lot of people can't dothat, and that's obviously like.
Amazing.
I also wanna just let peopleknow, like you did the same
thing from smoking cigarettes.
(16:02):
I did, yes.
My mom smoked cigarettes For howlong before?
Like 30 years.
And I took my last puff one dayafter I had a serious, diagnosed
of bronchitis and I just putthat cigarette down and I never
picked it up to this day.
No patches, no gum.
No patches, no gum.
I put the cigarette down andI've never picked it up since,
(16:23):
and it's been over 25 years.
So once again, not recommendingthat per se,'cause I don't know.
If many people could do that,have that strength or that
willpower.
But what I know the what I knowlike the reason why you quit
drinking and why you quitsmoking, but how, like what was
going through your mind, Iguess, in that process of
saying, okay, I'm done.
(16:44):
I have a physical dependence onthis, but I'm still going to
just say no more.
Once again, I think it was thediagnosis of my friend.
When I realized, well, such thatshe had been diagnosed with a
such a, can I just say she hadcancer?
Yeah.
And I was just flabbergasted.
I was just in shock.
(17:05):
I just could not believe my dearfriend.
Had cancer.
So it was almost like mortalitystaring at you.
Yes, and it was a rudeawakening.
I realized that things havegotta change, you know, because
I'm older than her, by the way,and I just thought, well, I'm
very lucky that I got to my ageand I was not the one that was
diagnosed with cancer.
(17:26):
So the few years that I haveleft, I just wanna make them as
clean as possible.
I love that.
I love that.
I think that, going back to theCovid thing, so.
My mom and I, we lived togetherfor maybe a month in the
pandemic in the beginning, andit was a tumultuous time for
both of us.
I felt like it put a strain onour relationship.
(17:46):
First of all, going back to livewith your parents after, you
know, so long is in, in and ofitself stressful.
But I think to your point.
You losing your job?
Me trying to work from home.
Another contention between uswas that I, and I think I've
shared this on the show before,but I was still going out, like,
don't, I don't wanna say, don'task me where I wasn't going to
(18:09):
the club obviously because itwasn't open, but I was going to
friends' houses and I wasdrinking daily.
So both of our drinking probablywas at a pinnacle during the.
Pandemic and it manifesteddifferently.
I felt like your drinking wasmore depressive, like you would
often just be in your room andwouldn't come out.
(18:29):
I couldn't, there was nowhere togo.
But even within the home?
Yeah.
Like you were just in the confi,like you would be in the dark
basically, kind of thing?
Yeah, because it was verydifficult because.
Nadine was still working, so Iwas kind of confided to the
bedroom because you was workingin the front room.
Well, that's true.
I also think though, like youwere obsessing over the news and
(18:53):
it was a lot of like, I don'tknow, like fearmongering from
the news.
Yeah.
Like I just felt like.
It was difficult.
And I'm not blaming you, like ofcourse you should stay well
versed about what's going onwith the pandemic.
But at the same time, I wastaking the anti approach of
that.
Like I was like, I see howdepressed my mom is.
I don't wanna be like that.
So I was taking the oppositetake, which I don't know if that
(19:14):
was the best in hindsightdecision for myself, but it was
like I wanted to be out of thehouse as much as possible.
I was going to my friend's houseand like I would just drink over
there.
So I was being a social drinker,like a subgroup of people I hung
out with.
I wasn't just hanging out withrandom people every day.
But that was like my drinkingcrew.
And then I'd come back and youwould be like, passed out from
your drinking and it just wasnot a good mix.
(19:36):
But you found your way, as didI, kind of took us on different
journeys.
And I'm sorry that it was thediagnosis of your friend's
cancer that showed you thelight, but your friend is akay
now.
Yes.
And B, there's beauty in that,you know, discovery because you
were able to reach sobriety, Andnow a quick word from our
(19:59):
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(20:20):
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It does not contain any addedsugar.
It's caffeine and of coursealcohol free and you can
(20:43):
purchase it in still orsparkling.
I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
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(21:06):
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We can both have momentstogether.
Yeah, I would imagine the lastday of my drinking would've been
January, 2022.
And was there anythingremarkable about that day?
(21:51):
Um, yeah, I left um, a quarter,a bottle in the bottle.
I didn't finish it.
Interesting.
Yes.
So were you at home or were youat someone's house?
How did that work?
I was actually in the process ofmoving and I had gone to stay my
last day in the area that I wasstaying at and I had brought
that drink with me'cause I wasstill adamant about, I'm not
(22:12):
throwing any alcohol away.
Mm-Hmm.
I brought it with me.
I just never drank it.
While I was there, I got up inthe morning and hit the road and
I just left that bottle thereand I never looked back at any
alcohol ever again.
Wow.
And so how has your life, or hasyour life changed since giving
(22:32):
up alcohol?
I hate to say giving a aboutalcohol.
That sounds depressing.
Like liberating yourself fromalcohol.
I actually don't even understandto this day why I was drinking.
There was just no benefitwhatsoever.
I don't have any headaches Thefunny thing is I always use
alcohol for sleep.
(22:54):
I thought I couldn't sleep if Ididn't have a drink.
Mm.
That's common.
I feel like a lot people andYes, absolutely.
And after, not drinking, Irealized I actually have a
better quality of sleep.
Yeah.
I sleep way better than I didwhen I had alcohol in me.
I hear that a lot.
I didn't so much use it.
To sleep.
(23:14):
I think I mainly used alcohol tonumb and to be social, but I
think the quality of sleep,obviously you're right,
improves.
I, I see it as like you're notpassing out because how many
times can you reminisce or thinkback to using alcohol to.
Quote unquote sleep, and thenrealizing like, oh, I don't
remember actually falling sleep.
(23:36):
Well, yeah, I mean, there aretimes when I was drinking, and
living alone has a lot to dowith it, and that's actually
even worse because when you aredrinking by yourself, you are
not speaking to anybody.
Mm-Hmm.
So if the phone rang and youstarted to speak, it's at that
moment you realize that you'redrunk.
Oh my God.
That would drive me crazy.
(23:56):
Yeah.
You don't even know that you'redrunk until somebody had called
you.
Perhaps because you're notsitting there talking to
yourself.
Um, I can relate to that.
And then perhaps the phone wouldring, and then when you answer
the phone, that's when you'reslurring.
And then you say to yourself, ohmy God, I'm really drunk.
And I would not have been awareof that if that phone had not
(24:17):
rung.
You said something reallyimportant though, and I do think
the loneliness piece, livingalone and being like lonely.
Like you look for thatconnection and so drinking like,
oh, you're like, oh, you're lessinhibited, so you wanna connect
to people and call them and youdon't think you've been drinking
of course, but, or you have beendrinking.
You don't think that you'redrunk.
(24:37):
That's right.
But then when you cool someone.
AKA me, I would immediately knowwhen you'd been drinking.
Yes, absolutely.
And it would just drive me upthe wall.
Yes.
but that's not a place ofjudgment.
That is just something that wenoted and we worked through
that.
Like we even set boundaries.
Like I would be like, pleasedon't call me if you've been
drinking, even if you think thatyou are not drunk.
'cause I could tell, as I'm sureyou could tell, if I called you
(24:59):
and I'd been drinking and that'sexactly what I'm, that's what
I'm getting at.
When you drink by yourself, youreally don't know that you're
drunk.
Yeah.
I, I, so when I picked the phoneup, I didn't even realize I was
drunk until I actually spoke.
Yeah, I see.
I see.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh,'cause you weren't likeactually speaking.
Yeah.
'cause I wasn't talking.
I might pick the phone upthinking in my mind.
(25:19):
Okay, let me just call Nadine.
Oh, I see.
Yeah.
But I don't know that I'm drunkuntil I actually start speaking.
No, that makes sense.
I, I could, that makes sense tome.
I, I felt like I, in Covid.
Definitely used to drink alone.
'cause I lived alone too.
but in general I think I wasmore of a social drinker and so
I would know when I was drunk.
(25:40):
I think there was one timeactually where I did an
Instagram live with a friend andI was drunk and you.
The next day was like furious.
You were like, yes.
You were like, you have to takethat down.
You were so drunk'cause youwatched it.
And I was, I didn't know I wasdrunk.
I was just probably spilling allof the tea, telling all of my,
my, my business, for everyone tosee on Instagram.
(26:02):
So yeah, I definitely can relateto that.
okay.
So kind of wrapping up andwinding down here, mom, so
better quality sleep has been abenefit for you.
What other benefits have yourrelationships changed?
I think personally.
Injecting myself here.
Our relationship has definitelygrown stronger since we're both
sober.
Would you agree with that?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
(26:23):
I think my, relationship witheverybody and everything has
changed.
the point and the key of this,um, I have no regrets becoming
sober as it's called.
Are you air quoing sobriety?
No, I'm not.
I'm just saying that, you know,I don't miss it.
I can walk past a liquor storewith no problem.
(26:44):
You could drink as much beer oralcohol in front of me.
It doesn't entice me.
I don't get temptation.
I can pour you a drink.
Um.
I had a relative that came tovisit me, by the way.
And because she realized that Iwasn't drinking, she was afraid
to drink, and then she called meto the corner and she just said,
look, I know you're notdrinking.
Do you mind if I have a drink?
(27:05):
And I felt insulted.
Yeah.
I've, I've gotten the samequestion.
I think people mean well by it.
Yeah.
But I can see Why did you feelinsult?
Insult?
I can share why I get kind oflike.
Annoyed.
I wouldn't say insulted, but I'mlike, I'm not condemning
alcohol.
It's just a choice that I madenot to drink.
If you want to drink and you'regonna stay, you know, without
(27:27):
getting drunk, I don't have aproblem with that.
I.
And I don't feel that you needto hide your drinking in front
of me if you feel free to have adrink.
I, I'm not feeling bad ortempted.
I'm a grown woman.
If I wanted to pick up a glassof wine, you couldn't stop me.
That's a great segue.
Do you feel like you could evermoderate alcohol?
(27:47):
I actually don't have a tastefor it.
I personally feel like, could Imoderate drinking?
Perhaps.
But I don't want to risk all ofthe joy and the, all of the
progress I've made by drinkingagain.
I just don't see the purpose.
I don't drink because I chosenot to drink.
(28:08):
I don't want to drink inmoderation.
I just don't see if there's apurpose.
There's a need for me to drinkalcohol in moderation.
If I'm gonna drink, why would Idrink in moderation?
I just don't have the urge forit.
I just don't want it.
Yeah.
And that's beautiful.
Yeah, I love that answer.
Yeah, I don't need to moderateit.
(28:28):
I just don't want it.
I don't want to have to drinkagain.
I just don't even see there's nobenefit in alcohol whatsoever.
You know, this illusion aboutdrinking two glasses of wine
again, is good for your heart.
I don't believe that, but if,and science doesn't back that up
actually.
Right.
And I'm just saying, I justdon't see there's a need for me
to drink alcohol, period.
I just don't want it.
(28:49):
Love that.
Okay.
My final, final question for youis because you are my very
special person and as my mother,I'm just wondering, do you feel
like there was any parallelsbetween your relationship with
alcohol and my relationship withalcohol as your daughter?
I actually didn't realize thatyou had a problem until you
became sober.
(29:09):
Really?
Yeah.
I never acknowledged it.
Never had any inclination, anyideas that there would possibly
have been a problem until youbecame sober?
I.
Really?
Yes.
Really?
Yeah.
Even after like all the stuffthat I like, the trouble I got
into, so, but that was college,Nadine.
(29:29):
I mean, you weren't the onlyone.
Mm.
That's what college I've workedwith college students and the
things that they told me theydid when they were drinking.
It was just, it's just that'swhat college students did.
I feel like you were alwaysweary with me though in driving.
Like you would always and likeso, but you didn't think I
actually had like an A problemwith alcohol.
(29:51):
I didn't think you had a problemwith alcohol.
But I used to say to you,please, if you're gonna drink,
please, I'd rather you juststay.
What do you mean?
The night stay where you arerather than to attempt to drive
home?
I said that to you multipletimes.
Yes you have.
That's actually interesting tome.
I thought that you may have hadsome kind of inclination that I
had a problem with drinking.
(30:11):
No, I didn't.
I just didn't want you to drinkand drive.
I haven think about that.
And do you think that you had aproblem with drinking?
Did I have a problem withdrinking?
Um, it's very hard for me to sayyes and no to that because at
the time when I was drinking, Ididn't feel that it was a
problem.
And like I explained, I realizedthat I'm doing more harm to my
(30:32):
body than good.
Mm.
And that's the reason why Istopped.
That's beautiful.
Okay, mom, I really appreciateyou coming on.
I've been dying to have you as aguest and I'm so glad that we
had this chance to talk a littlebit about both of our history
with drinking and I, I got tolike share some of your story
with listeners at home.
How do you feel?
Okay.
(30:52):
Yeah.
Very good.
Okay.
You had so much apprehensionabout coming on the show, but
you did it.
Okay.
We did it.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Charlie.
It was a pleasure.
I love you.
Okay.
I love you too.
Okay guys.
So that's all I have to share.
I also wanna say thank you forbeing here, and thank you for
allowing me to hold space inyour day as you listen to this
(31:13):
podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
(31:34):
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
Bye bye.
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