January 24, 2024 • 47 mins
In this week's episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, we sit down with Ellie St. Alban, the proud founder and owner of Dry in the Desert, a virtual non-alcoholic bottle shop and events in Phoenix, Arizona. Ellie shares her journey toward sobriety and insights into the challenges and triumphs of running a business in non-alcoholic beverages.
We also discuss:
-The Challenge of Dry January and Its Limitations
-Transitioning from Dry Drunk to Emotional Sobriety
-The Ethics Behind Running a Non-Alcoholic Shop Business
-Why Alcohol-Free Drinks Mimicking the Taste of Alcohol May Be Triggering
To connect with Ellie:
- Website: https://www.dryinthedesert.com/
- Instagram: @dryinthedesert
To connect with Nadine:
- Follow on IG: @the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast
- Follow on TikTok @the.soberbutterfly
- Subscribe to YouTube channel
- Subscribe to our monthly newsletter, https://thesoberbutterfly.com/
Resources from the Episode:
FREEBIE Beginner’s Guide to Dry January (e-book)
FREEBIE Guide to Quitting Alcohol - 30 Day Transformation (course)
Partners:
Use Code TSB23 for 25% off your order
Free 30 Day Trial
https://www.audibletrial.com/tsb24
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services refereed to in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nadine, The Sober Butterf (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Sober
Butterfly Podcast.
The podcast where we uncork punintended, the stories behind the
sober journey.
I'm your host, Nadine Mulvina,and today's episode is a special
one featuring a remarkableindividual who has not only
embraced a life of sobriety, buthas also found success in a very
(00:21):
unique venture, a non-alcoholicbeverage shop.
Today we're joined with EllieSt.
Aubin.
Ellie is the proud owner of DryIn the Desert, which is a
virtual non-alcoholic bottleshop and offers event services
in the Phoenix, Arizona area.
Ellie, I'm so honored to haveyou on today.
How are you?
Elie, Dry in the Desert (00:39):
I am wonderful.
Thank you, Nadine, and I am sohonored to be here with you and
getting to talk to you face toface for the first time, really.
And yeah, thanks for thatintroduction.
I'm so excited to talk about.
What I'm up to and like how thatrelates to this whole movement
(01:00):
and sobriety being more open andhonest these days than behind
closed doors.
So I'm, yeah, super happy to behere and be connected with you.
Track 1 (01:10):
Yes, I'm so for the transparency, the visibility and
the inclusivity piece, and soonce again, thank you for coming
on.
I'm thinking just because it'sdry, January as we record this,
is this like an extra busy timefor you, Ellie?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (01:22):
Yeah, typically it would be and should
be.
And I've I knew that going intothe month to where I didn't
really overbook and like fulltransparency I have another
part-time job right now that I'mactually like transitioning out
of to.
(01:42):
my dry in the desert businessfull-time and like really
hitting the gas pedal on that.
So I took it slow for the monthbut it's busy in a general
sense.
I'm sure you can relate to likeonline and just seeing how much
people are posting about dryJanuary and different beverages
and like how to do it, how likemotivation so it feels busy even
(02:05):
if I'm not that busy with eventsand things like that.
I have a lot of friends andfamily that still drink alcohol
and when they'll try to do dryJanuary, they feel like they
can't go out and so they're likebored and anxious and I totally
get that'cause I was like thatfor a long time too.
But that's why I think havingnon-alcoholic beverage options
(02:27):
is like so important.
Even if there's alcohol theretoo, it's like that's the
movement I wanna see more of islike in restaurants and
hospitality places and just thatthe option is there and it's
just as normal as picking analcoholic option to where people
don't have to feel like I'mgoing out and ordering a water
and like, that's why I feel sootherly compared to everyone
(02:51):
else there.
Like, it's no wonder that wefeel that way.
So I feel like the tides areturning on that a little bit,
but socially it's not alwayseasy.
Track 1 (03:01):
Really quickly unpacking some of that.
It sounds like to me you werewise and decided to really focus
on balance and protecting yourpeace going into dry Jan because
it is such a busy time in thissobriety recovery space.
And I wish I would've talked toyou about that before I signed
up to do like all of theseevents for Dry, January.
And also, just a quick shout outto you, Ellie, because you
(03:22):
shipped me.
Some amazing bottles of Gruviand literally as I'm doing my
events, which is a blind wine,non-alcoholic tasting, it is a
fan favorite.
And I'm not just saying thatbecause I'm talking to you like
legitimately people go crazy forit.
So thank you for sharing thatwith me so I could share it with
my guests that come to myevents.
But also it's this idea thatlike, I don't wanna feel otherly
(03:45):
like you mentioned.
And then that's where, at leastmyself speaking, like in the
past also attempting thesechallenges, I would cave because
I'm like, well, this is boring.
What else is there for me?
Not feeling like there were asmany options on the market.
So I love this idea of justblending those two things, like
this idea that like you can havedifferent types of beverages
(04:07):
available firstly, and then noteverything needs to be the best
time of your life.
Like also being okay with justsitting in a little bit of
discomfort and adjusting to anew, you know, maybe a new
state, at least for me, like anew, literally, quite literally
a new state of being because Iwasn't used to going out and
(04:30):
being sober.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (04:31):
Yeah.
And I think that makes it clearof like what dry January really
is.
there's something to it.
'cause there's people who have,their sober date is January 1st,
so like, and they did achallenge and then they felt
really good and they kept goingand it's like, I think that's
wonderful.
And it has a place in the spaceand it's of course wonderful to
(04:51):
like take a month off.
Like, that's great for yourhealth, great for many benefits.
But I think when people almostlook at it as a challenge, it's
like they're white knuckling it,as we might say of just like,
I'm just gonna take alcohol out.
And then like.
Suffer through these 30 days andthen I can't wait for February
(05:13):
1st and I'm like, every dayspent without alcohol is great
because that's healthier foryour body and your mind
probably.
But I just don't think there'smuch else to like gain from
that.
Like the alcohol is really justthe tip of the iceberg, which I
feel like is a common saying,like common knowledge that
(05:34):
there's so much underneath.
But I just don't think I changedanything about me until I
started doing recovery workthat, There's just so much more
to it that we have to addressourselves and like work on or
else there you won't see as manybenefits, you know, like maybe a
little bit of health benefits.
But I think the biggest piece islike your mental health and your
(05:57):
state of being, like you said,is like what really changes as
we recover rather than as we arejust alcohol free for 30 days.
There can be a big difference.
So yeah, I'm like, I'm all aboutdry January.
I never completed one, but I'mlike, any day you wanna spend
without drinking is for you thandrinking.
(06:20):
So it's great.
But, I try not to like push ittoo much.
'cause I just think it's likeyou're either in the space of
like ready to change.
Or you're doing this for ahealth challenge and you
complete it and wonderful.
you're really like strugglingthrough it, that it's just each
person's own path.
It's, for me, it's just likeanother day., I'm dry always.
(06:44):
That's my important thing isbeing in more of the recovery
and like mental health journeythat I think is the most
transformative, rather than justgiving up booze for 30 days.
I wouldn't expect anything aboutmyself to, to change after that.
Track 1 (07:04):
beautifully said.
The white knuckling piece is soreal because that's what I would
do.
I would do it to prove to myselfwhen I'm doing these challenges
that I don't have a problem.
I would be like, oh, I can go 30days without alcohol.
To be real, Ellie, sometimes Icould not go 30 days without
alcohol.
What I loved about challengeslike Dry, January is it was like
(07:25):
good intel for me to startrecognizing, even if I didn't do
anything about it in the moment,it was like getting harder and
harder with time to ignore thefact that it was misery for me
to go without alcohol.
And then when I would cave also,I think I have this a small
touch of perfectionism, right?
So it's like if I did cave orrelapse or whatever, I would
(07:47):
regress immediately back to myold drinking ways because then
it was like, well, if you can'tdo it perfectly, then you won't
do it at all.
So it's like all of thesedifferent things in culmination.
But I love that you shared thatbecause to your point, getting
sober is usually just thebeginning, It's like removing
the substance is just where thereal work starts to begin.
(08:07):
And the transformation piece isso real.
And it reminds me, have youheard of the term dry drunk
before?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (08:14):
Yeah.
Track 1 (08:16):
Yeah.
So it sounds like a lot ofpeople may be walking around
being like a dry drunk.
Do you wanna share what yourversion or how you see dry
drunk?
Like how would you define that?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01- (08:27):
Opposite would be like emotionally sober.
Right.
So basically that emotionallyand in your reactions, you're
still acting as you were drunkor in like a using of the
substance space, which Yeah Ican relate to for sure I'm in a
(08:51):
recovery program, a 12 stepprogram.
I didn't see any like changes inmy.
Life until I started doing thatinner work and reflection.
So yeah, I can relate to a drydrunk means of just yeah, being
alcohol free and like seeming toget better life.
(09:17):
I feel like what it means to me.
To like the person going it.
Like maybe they're not aware ofit, but you imagine yourself of
just like all those things thatyou're like trying to heal by
giving up alcohol, but by notdoing any those things don't
magically go away withoutalcohol.
(09:39):
And I think the sad part, likethe hard part really with
alcohol, I try not to likedemonize it or judge anyone who
uses it especially in thenon-alcoholic beverage space,
like you really have to come toterms with sharing shelf space
with alcohol and you're notgonna make any friends judging
people who still drink
Track 1 (09:58):
Right.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (09:59):
in a, and a lot of people who are
drinking actually still drinkalcohol.
So there's a big market for justthe people who are like putting
things into their regimens.
but in the sobriety sense Ithink that it's just hard to
just quit and feel muchdifferent.
(10:21):
I guess actually what I wasgonna say or like what I was
trying to come back to was sadpart of alcohol is just the,
that it is like an addictivethat when we do feel, start
feeling all those thingsunderneath.
Without it, it is very hard tobreak the cycle of going back to
it and like you're saying oflike going straight back to,
(10:44):
well, I sucked at this, so like,this is how I'm coping with it.
I think that's really thehardest part that I feel was
like for me and what I can seeat least from other people.
I don't know, of course theirpersonal circumstances, but I
feel like that's sad part of it,that when we try to make
changes, it's like the si thecycle breaking is really the
(11:04):
hardest.
Thing to get out of using thatas your coping or like social
habit or whatever it is that'smost, that it's most prevalent
in your life.
Track 1 (11:14):
I totally agree with what you shared and.
I would define it in the sameway.
I love the parallel.
The paradox is, okay, dry drunkversus emotional sobriety.
And the funny part is, I did anepisode when I first started the
podcast, so season one withKeisha over at Done with
Debauchery.
And it was all about tabootopics in recovery, in sobriety.
(11:37):
And we touched on just thistopic, like dry drunks versus
emotional sobriety.
And I had no understanding ofwhat a dry drunk really was, and
Keisha didn't either.
But it wasn't until I reallystarted doing the inner work
like months after that interviewor that episode that I began to
see true transformation takeplace in my life.
(11:59):
I think I was so much angrier inthe beginning of my sobriety
because I.
To your point, as mentionedbefore, like I was white
knuckling my way through it.
Like I was just kinda like, oh,I'm not drinking.
Check every day.
It was like, did you drink?
No.
Great.
You're doing it.
But I wasn't really doing it.
I was just bearing through it.
And when I actually startedworking on myself and getting in
(12:21):
contact with other sober peopleand like understanding how to
work through my own trauma.
Because you mentioned theiceberg effect, right?
Like we're just scratching thesurface by removing the
substance or getting rid ofalcohol.
I was using alcohol as a symptomfor other things I needed to
work on.
So when I really started doingthat work, I saw tremendous
(12:44):
growth in my life and.
I actually feel like I'memotionally sober now, so I'm so
glad that you mentioned thatbecause I forgot about that.
The opposite of being a drydrunk is emotional sobriety.
Like, I feel like no matterwhat, removing alcohol, onlyi
has positive impacts, but itdoesn't mean that you are in a
place to actually change yourlife.
It's just more so changing yourstate of being, but it doesn't
(13:07):
touch on the psychological orthe emotional impacts of that.
Does that make sense?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (13:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I would say like thatis a big thing that I remind
myself every day of that like,it's so great that my sobriety
can propel my business.
In certain ways in that I canshare some of that with my
audience, but they are twoseparate things.
(13:34):
Sobriety and non-alcoholicbeverage shop.
Like what it is, a retail shop.
And I'm lucky that it like fitsand that, you know, it's not
like my job is running a analcoholic bottle shop.
I could still be sober and dothat, but, I'm lucky that it
like, goes along with my passionthat I get to intertwine them.
(13:56):
But at the same time, those arethe things I have to remember
for me is that my sobriety isseparate.
It's most important to me inthat I cannot be like some of my
customers who still drinkalcohol.
Like, that's not for me.
And I think those are things Ihad to learn over and over
(14:18):
again.
That brought me to sobriety nowand like happiness in sobriety,
like able to be happy that I'msober.
Where before, like the manyattempts before I still never
wanted to be sober.
So I was doing it'cause it feltlike needed to be and necessary,
I wasn't, I didn't want to be, Ididn't want that to be the end
(14:40):
all be all.
And now I'm like excited that Iget that chance and that
opportunity and have built agreat sober life so I'm glad you
said that just'cause ittriggered that thought of I
still have to keep that recoverypiece separate and at the
forefront.
Because I work right alongsidealcohol and I'm tasting things
(15:01):
that taste like alcohol I dodemos in total wine where I'm
just like surrounded by thesetall shelves of booze and just
staring at them for hours as I'msampling people on non-alcoholic
beverages and people saying,what's the point of that?
And, uh, no, we're here for thereal stuff and like.
You know, all day thosecomments.
So I'm used to it now, but it'slike, it's important for me to
(15:26):
keep my sobriety top of mind.
'cause that's different than mybusiness or what dry in the
desert is.
That's just like me as Ellie, mysobriety, my program, my
recovery.
Not necessarily everything Ishare on the internet, but just
something that to come first andthat I wouldn't have all these
(15:47):
other things that I have, Iwouldn't have my business like
without it because I justwouldn't be able to be that
productive I want people to knowthat there's a difference than
just like, oh, that's cool thatthere's like a non-alcoholic old
fashioned.
I'm like, yes, but like this issomething liberating for me.
(16:07):
So that's how I feel aboutnon-alcoholic beverages for me.
But that does not mean they workfor sober people
Track 1 (16:15):
I feel like, because you mentioned the 12 steps as a
recovery program, that issomething that you feel
connected to.
There are so many people that Imeet within AA, for example, who
look down upon, I'll say forlack of a better word right now,
but look down upon drinkingalcohol, free drinks that
resemble or mimic the taste ofalcohol.
(16:36):
Do you have any thoughts aroundthat?
Because obviously I do, Icelebrate and highlight feature
different non-alcoholic brandsbecause I like the inclusivity
piece as we touched on at thebeginning.
But what are your thoughts andhow do you respond to people
that are asking you for the realthing?
Like if you, they do a tastingat total wine and they're like,
uh, actually can we try, becauseI'm literally having the same
(16:58):
experience at my events.
Like people will come and Ieven, oh my gosh, I even had
this week someone come and theybought their own alcohol to my
tasting.
They're like, oh, they wannaspike my, the drink with
alcohol.
And I'm like, that's defeats thewhole purpose of why we're here.
So I know I just asked you twoseparate questions, but my first
(17:19):
question just to reiterate islike, how do you feel being a
part of, or there is notechnical membership, but just
in terms of like people whothink that you shouldn't drink
non-alcoholic beverages ifyou're in recovery, versus also
responding to people who areasking for real alcohol at your
(17:39):
events.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (17:41):
Yeah.
It's a great question'cause Ihave so many thoughts on it and
I could probably do a wholeepisode just on like that topic
because my personal experiencewith it.
When I first tried anon-alcoholic beer, I had like a
panic attack that I had ruinedmy sobriety.
I felt like I felt somethingfrom it because I think just
(18:04):
like the body memory is sostrong, especially with beer, I
feel like those, that taste canbe quite similar.
And so I hadn't, at that point,I hadn't had beer or any alcohol
for nine months, and I had that.
And so it was like very jarringto have that taste in my mouth
and like that feeling, thatmemory.
(18:24):
So I freaked out and scared andlike had to have someone talk me
off the ledge that I didn't justlike drink and ruin my time or
whatever.
And you know, after that I hadrelapsed, not like from that or
anytime close to that time, butlike later on I did drink, so I
was still not ready to letalcohol go.
(18:47):
And then now what I say is justthat it's like empowering and
liberating to have somethingwhere I can literally have my
beer and drink it too, withouthaving that.
Worry that I feel like it'sincredible that I can do that
because that is something that'sjust so hard to let go of, like
the ritual those things.
(19:08):
So I completely understand thelike, triggering piece of it
people come to me and are inrecovery or sober and have
expressed to me that they areconcerned about non-alcoholic
drinks or that they havestruggled to maintain sobriety,
give them like five warningsbefore I, I'm like, if I'm doing
(19:31):
a taste with them, like if it'sa friend or something, I'm like,
are you sure you want to tastesomething that tastes just like
wine or a taste just like beer,like this tastes just like it.
I need to tell you that upfrontit can be really, it feels
really weird I think for thefirst time.
So I just think it's such apersonal choice and I try to be
mindful of that to where I'm notjust like, oh yeah, you should
(19:55):
try this.
Like it's.
So good.
because I'm in recovery that Iat least have that experience to
be mindful of certain people'sreactions to it.
And I wanna cater to thosepeople because that's all why I
started this.
And I think there's anotherpiece too of alcohol removed
beverages.
So things that did containalcohol, and then it's been
(20:18):
removed even though it's likeless than 0.5%.
Alcohol by volume, they say thea ripe banana has the same
amount of alcohol.
For certain people and incertain situations they don't
want any.
And even though we might stickour nose up and be like, you're
not gonna get drunk.
(20:38):
It's literally no alcohol.
But I think for some people, andlike even for religious reasons,
so many different reasons likeif something did contain alcohol
at some point and then it wasextracted and there might be
residual amount fromfermentation.
don't wanna drink that, thenlike I think on them, that's
(21:00):
fine.
I try to be not judgmental inthat way either.
I want to provide both optionsof things that are just maybe
taste or like sparkling whiteteas where they just never
contained alcohol.
Again, it's like is my business.
I'm not gonna be responsible forsomeone.
Relapsing on a drink they boughtfrom me or something.
(21:23):
But like as a sober person inrecovery, I try to do my best to
educate on those things andthose differences so that the
person choosing the drinks feelsempowered to make that choice
and find something for thatworks for them.
So that was a long-windedanswer, but I always just say
like, yeah, I'm both like theDrake song.
(21:43):
I'm like, yeah, I'm in AA andI'm drinking non-alcoholic
drinks.
Like, I try to be confident.
I don't go into AA meetings andbe like.
here, try some NA beers or like,here's my, I don't talk about
drying the desert there, excuseme, or anything, but but in my
personal life I can confidentlysay that like, yes, I'm, I do
(22:04):
both and it's okay.
I feel like there's a little bitmore acceptance now.
It's just not something you'regonna bring up in the AA Yeah.
Track 1 (22:14):
You as a business owner, like your ethics are
aligned to your business.
I think that you being inrecovery as a sober person
really speaks volumes to how youtreat your audience or your
customers, like your consumersat the event.
And you're never gonna pressuresomeone for the sake of your
bottom line.
Like, I really think that isimportant.
So just kudos for that piece.
(22:37):
And I think just going back tothe dry drunk versus emotionally
sober piece, I think before whenI was a dry drunk, I would've
felt more triggered from thetaste of something like that.
It would drive me to maybe craveit versus now I have no desire
to.
Have any altered state ofconsciousness.
So me drinking is because Iactually like the taste, whereas
(23:00):
before when I used to drink itwas because I wanted to feel
something.
So I think that was just amoment, that aha moment I had
when you were sharing inrealizing that I think my
sobriety is not at risk or injeopardy when I try these
non-alcoholic beverages becauseI have no desire to ever drink
again.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (23:18):
Yeah, I think that's an
Track 1 (23:19):
Yeah.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (23:20):
to share out loud, like with your
audience, because other peoplewill feel the same way.
I feel like, especially thingsthat taste like alcohol, but
there's so many of these likenewer functional beverages that
are their own kind of likeherbally or like earthy tastes.
There's you know, like moment orsomething like sparkling.
Do you have one there?
(23:42):
Yeah, that's exactly what I waspicturing in my mind.
The leche like so good.
But it's like that obviouslytastes nothing like alcoholic.
It's like more like LaCroix,like better tasting, LaCroix
better ingredient type of thinghas adaptogens in it.
And now a quick word from ourpartners.
It really feels like you'rehaving a moment, pun intended.
(24:05):
When you're sipping on thelovely and refreshing moment.
Now, what I love about moment isthat not only does it taste
delicious, I have my favoriteflavors.
I love the blood orange.
I love the spicy mango, but it'salso good for you, which is
exactly what I need in my liferight now as I'm in my early.
30s.
It's infused with L theanine,which is great for mental
(24:28):
clarity.
It also is packed withashwagandha, which is great for
helping to fight stress.
It's made with all of thesenatural botanicals, which really
enhances your vitality.
It does not contain any addedsugar.
It's caffeine and of coursealcohol free and you can
purchase it in still orsparkling.
I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
(24:49):
take.
In the morning it's great for aboost to start the day versus in
the afternoon if you want tobeat that afternoon slump and
enhance your mental clarity orif you just need like a simple
pick me up like for me I love tohave a moment after the gym
versus going into the gymbecause it just really helps.
Reenergize me.
And then in the evening if youwant to wind down after a long
(25:12):
busy day and enjoy a deliciousmocktail without the hangover,
then Moment is great for thattoo.
One of the best parts for mewith Moment is I feel like it's
a really conscientious brand.
They donate 1 percent of alltheir sales to mental health non
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as well.
Head over to drinkmoment.
(25:32):
com and use my code TSB23 toreceive 12 percent off your very
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Let's be moment buddies.
We can both have momentstogether.
So I think that's my true belief is
that there is non-alcoholicbeverages for every person that
it doesn't have to be at like anNA beer.
If that's something that don'tever wanna taste again because
(25:54):
you're sober, then like great.
That's why we provide a variety.
And yeah, like you said, I tryto be mindful at my events and
stuff of having always somethingthat is like a zero zero, always
something that doesn't haveadaptogens in it.
Just like if there's pregnantwomen there, like who knows?
And even though, even when Iknow like all the people that
(26:14):
are gonna show up, I'm justlike, people deserve, that's the
whole point is that they deserveoptions.
Not just like, I'm only gonnaserve you these non-alcoholic
cocktails and everything tasteslike either.
or Margarita or like whatever.
It's like everyone has their ownYeah.
Like past experience that's
Track 1 (26:33):
you.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20 (26:33):
affect how they wanna feel and what
they wanna taste and how theymove forward.
Track 1 (26:38):
Thank you.
That's the whole point of thisis there's something for
everyone.
And just going back to, youknow, any naysayers, I don't
wanna say naysayers, it's notnice, but people that may show
up with the expectation thatthey still want to drink, how do
you handle that?
This is a personal questionbecause I am still, you know,
unpacking my events and peoplebringing alcohol to be
(27:01):
non-alcoholic try January event.
How's that happened to you andlike, what do you do in those
moments?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2 (27:07):
that yeah, is very interesting
choice.
Yeah, I haven't had thatexperience personally, but have
thought about it because I,especially at first, I had those
concerns.
Or if we were to do a meetup ata restaurant and then someone
ordered booze or something whenit's like a parent that we're
(27:28):
here for like an alcohol freeevening, like how awkward that
would be.
And what would you, or would youhave to say you're not allowed
to do that?
I don't know.
So I I don't know if I haveadvice on that.
I think that's.
So strange because yeah, I'msure you're like, this is an
alcohol free wine tasting.
(27:48):
I think in general, like I, Itake it back to like the total
wine demos and stuff and I'llhave other people come up to me
and be like, it breaks theirheart when they're trying to
like, talk up non-alcoholicbeverages'cause they're a sober
person and then someone liketalks down on that and the
whole, like, why does thatproduct even exist?
Like, what's the point they, asober person sometimes takes
(28:13):
that really personally becausethey're like, do you know what
these mean to me?
How these have like, helped mechange my life, my drinking?
Like how empowering it is tohave a non-alcoholic beer.
so I think us in this spaceunderstand that.
But that's where it helps me tolook at like that business side
of it, of just that I'm like,person is like on their own
(28:36):
journey.
And like maybe that person thatshowed up.
Is like wanting to be sober.
If we think back to the times wewanted to stop drinking.
And I think of it now whenpeople tell me like, I'd love to
stop drinking and then I seethem post a glass of wine the
next day and that's not for meto like pass judgment on.
(28:56):
But I still believe them'causeI'm like, I was that person
where I wanted to stop drinkingand two days later, like I was
wasted.
So it
Track 1 (29:05):
Yeah.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (29:05):
to like, because of their actions
don't really portray maybe theirdesires.
So who knows, like you probablyknow from the actual situation,
but like maybe she really isinterested in learning about
these beverages and like cuttingdown on her drinking and maybe
she's in a spot of not feelinglike she can go to an event
(29:27):
without booze.
But if you look at it from likea whole story perspective, like
I think it can be really alesson to everyone who was
there, everyone who hears thisstory, that it's like, yeah, our
intentions, maybe her intentionswere right, or like that she
wants what you have and thisisn't quite there, you know?
Track 1 (29:48):
I have to give people grace and thank you for
reminding me that this was likea humanizing experience.
It was actually a couple, andbecause this event was in their
building, I feel like it waslike a crutch.
Like they just were like, oh,we're gonna go run upstairs
before we go down to this eventin the rec room and we're going
(30:09):
to just bring alcohol eventhough it's clearly a sober
event.
I made it a non-issue.
I didn't want to like.
Spend too much time harping onit.
I think my face probably gave itaway.
I was like, oh okay, that's notwhat we're doing.
But then I was just like, you'rewelcome to do whatever you want,
but like, also who adds liquorto wine?
So like, there's that piece too.
(30:30):
That would be weird.
So they didn't end up, you know,adding any alcohol or even
taking out of their tote bag.
Like you mentioned, some peopledo have intentions, but their
intentions aren't always alignedwith their actions yet.
And it doesn't mean that theydon't have a desire to learn
more or participate in mindfuldrinking.
It's just that like, maybethey're not there yet and I need
(30:51):
to not pass judgment.
But I was like lowkey judging.
I was just kinda like, why areyou here?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (30:56):
Yeah,
Track 1 (30:57):
Like, what do you think this is about?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-20 (31:00):
I'm gonna be honest in the moment I
like, I don't know what I woulddo and I probably would've been
the same way of just like, howdare you like bring that in this
space, but being told as a thirdparty, like what?
the situation was, I feel like Ican actually relate to them like
a I've attended like a boozefree wedding and I, yeah.
(31:26):
And I brought my own alcohol,you know, like that kind of
thing where like, they probablyjust didn't even, because
they're not in our world, like,they're not even thinking like,
oh, there's no booze allowed.
This is just like a booze freeevent, so I'm gonna bring my
own, I did that in so manydifferent situations that I
didn't think were a big deal butas the person hosting and all
that, like, I don't even thinkit's really your responsibility
(31:48):
to like, accept that or educatethem or, you know, like it's not
on us to.
To do anything with that, so I'msure it was like incredibly
awkward and hard to know what tosay or do,
Track 1 (32:01):
the more you're talking, the more it's reminding
me of like, who I was beforesobriety.
Because A, the humility piece islike, I would a never go to a
sober wedding.
I've been invited to soberweddings and declined the
invitation because there was noalcohol, there was no open bar.
So there's that piece.
And then I would just pre-game,I probably would've pre-gamed
for any event that it was clearlike a baby shower.
(32:23):
Even like I've, I have pre-gamedfor a baby shower.
I'm not exaggerating.
Maybe this is my full circlemoment, running into a couple
that would bring, you know,alcohol to a, an alcohol-free
dry January event.
So I'm really glad that youmentioned that.
And I do wanna touch reallyquickly as we wind down, just in
terms of, I know you'vementioned, and I can assume like
(32:44):
what inspired the idea for yourbusiness.
But I'm also just curious toknow what life looked like
before for you before youdecided to become sober.
I know that you have over 500days of sobriety.
So like what led you to sobrietyand then what sparked the idea
for drying the desert?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (33:02):
Yeah.
So much it started with like asimple drunken argument with my
boyfriend at the time in like ahangover the next day.
This was in 2018, that I waslike, I just don't wanna feel
that way anymore.
That was my first time going toan AA meeting.
(33:24):
And I spent three months soberand just was dipping my toe in,
uh, of a recovery program.
Then I felt like I couldmoderate drinking again.
And so I started to moderateagain for a short second, and
then I found out I was pregnant.
So I spent time not drinkingagain, like dry drunk where I
(33:47):
wasn't still doing my recoveryprogram, but had, you know, nine
months sober.
But as soon as my child wasborn, I went back to drinking.
My lifestyle had changed becauseI was now a mom that I wasn't
going out parties late nights,but was still drinking a decent
(34:09):
amount and really enjoyeddrinking at that time.
Then there was Halloween nightwhen my son was 15 months at
that time, and it was time togo, so it was bedtime, and I was
pissed that I couldn't stay andkeep drinking with the rest of
my family.
and I was just like fuming onthe inside.
(34:30):
So nothing bad happened,hungover in the next day, but
emotionally.
I was like, wow, I just can'tbelieve I wanted so badly to
keep drinking over, taking myson home and care of his needs.
I don't ever wanna feel that wayagain.
I don't ever wanna prioritizethat over him.
(34:51):
again, was like, okay, I am donewith drinking.
A week later, find out I'mpregnant again.
So I spend another nine months,whatever, sober.
Then I have my second child andI didn't go right back to
drinking.
A couple months went by and Iwas feeling like the postpartum
(35:12):
depression and just likedepression in general, like the
things that I used alcohol tocope with.
And I had the wits about me tosay like, if I don't get help,
I'm gonna drink again.
So I stepped back into arecovery room and that was when
I went through all the steps andlike worked with a sponsor and
actually made changes to mylife.
(35:36):
And I still, again, like a year,let's see, so I made it a year
and a half, including mypregnant time.
So it was about like ninemonths, after that of going
through recovery all that whereI started to like get that itch
again and feel like I didn'twant alcohol to be off the table
for.
(35:58):
And it's so funny you saidsomething earlier of like that
you were doing the 30 daychallenges to like prove
something.
I took a sip of alcohol again toprove to alcohol that it didn't
have control over me, that I waslike, I'm not afraid of you.
'cause I was still living inthat fear of alcohol.
And I think that's a big shiftof like having the fear of NA
(36:19):
drinks.
I feel like that's Fear mindsetof like alcohol, having that
control over us and over ourmental game.
So was deciding to startmoderating again and the thing
was that I did it, it was likeover a summer, so like four
months.
But I was, it was so much mentalwork to decide when I could
(36:43):
drink and how much, and youknow, I had these 18 months
prior that had created abeautiful life that was
enjoyable.
So I had this 18 month old voicein my head to me still.
So I had a little bit of voiceof reason to not go off the deep
(37:04):
end.
And I think it's that thing oflike once you know about
alcohol, once you've seenrecovery, hard to turn that off
and like go back out in thatdeep way.
Obviously people do and it'snot.
Lost upon me that I was able toreel it in.
But the mental like obsessionwith alcohol came back and that
(37:25):
mental like bargaining withmyself of how much I can have
and when it's appropriate wasback.
And that's the part that likereally controlled my life
previously that I just saidlike, you know what, it's not
worth it to squeeze in a drinkhere and there'cause it takes
over even if I'm not allconsuming, it's taking over my
(37:46):
whole life and my mentalcapacity just to fit in a couple
drinks.
And the way I like to drink isnot with a couple of drinks.
That is zero fun.
NA beer has a point to me one ortwo drinks that I can't
understand.
Track 1 (38:01):
And I think many people will relate to your journey,
that mental fixation piece, myGod, Ellie, diluting myself into
thinking I could moderatealcohol, almost kept me stuck
because I was like, I can do itto prove to myself that I could
do it even when I couldn't doit.
But then when I could do it, itwas just like obsessing over,
(38:21):
you know, calculating the numberof drinks I can have per night.
And when I can have my other, Iliterally remember one time
going to dinner.
With a girlfriend and mimickingher, like literally like
mirroring her sips of wine tolet me know that it was time for
me.
Like, okay, I can have a sip ofwine now because all I wanted to
(38:41):
do was guzzle mine Back andlike, just gimme the bottle.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (38:45):
We can take that mental piece off
of our plate and just enjoyourselves and do the things we
actually think are fun.
Now my sober date is 2022, soyou know, that was a four year
journey to even get to thatpoint, to make that decision
again.
And then I was, I say startingover on count, but I.
of that work I did before led meto making that decision again.
(39:09):
That it's, no time wasted.
And that, even that last timegoing out and trying to drink
was just like, so necessary.
You know, not something Irecommend of someone relapsing,
but it was just for me, likethat was part of my journey and
showed me so much of like what Iwant out of a sober life.
And now I try to work hard onthat.
(39:31):
And now I, that's why I saylike, I'm happy I get to make
this choice and stay sobertoday.
As far as how it led to dryingthe desert was just like feeling
like I had finally foundcommunity a little bit in
recovery.
I feel like that is, can be hardto.
Make friends or like friendsyour age or friends you wanna do
things with outside of recoveryrooms that I had like finally
(39:53):
found that.
And I was like, well, like whatcan we do together?
Are we gonna go get food orsomething?
And the first thought that cameto mind was like, will I ever
get dressed to the nines withthese people and be at a fancy
gala?
The thought was just like, whynot?
Like, shouldn't there be analcohol free gala where everyone
is informal at higher, there'salcohol free champagne in a
(40:15):
glass, flute, not plastic.
I want everything that I'vealways had or like that everyone
else has just without alcohol.
So it was just envisioning thatsocial world.
With alcohol completely takenoff the table.
So I started doing it just assmall events, you know, just
popup, just my friends andfamily showing up to show
(40:36):
support, and grew from there.
And events are hard work as younow know that it's like, it's so
much work.
And was not a past event planneror anything, like, that's not
really my thing.
So I still do them, but I lovedoing that like casual kind of
meetup and nothing too crazy orlike too much production behind
(40:59):
it.
I moved to that, thenon-alcoholic beverage.
'cause that was just the passionI had.
And like I said, I just trulybelieve it's been liberating for
me that I get to have thosedrinks and my sobriety.
So I worked on the groovy sideof things and got to see the
like brand and industry part ofit more than just the sobriety
(41:21):
part of it.
Like this is a, an industry anda business and possible and
trending.
So, you know, I got to learn theins and outs of the business
side of the non-alcoholicbeverage industry, which is what
led me like, I think I can dothat here.
And you know, I'm still figuringout my way as exactly how it's
(41:44):
gonna end up looking.
Just trying everything andseeing what I like and what I
don't like and what the Phoenixand Arizona community want.
'cause that's my biggest pieceof the business.
You know, it's aboutnon-alcoholic beverages and
socializing.
And then the other half is aboutsupporting my community where
I'm at.
(42:04):
I don't, you know, like shipanything out of state or like.
not looking to go national nenecessarily.
It's about like reallysupporting my community because
I feel like it's been lackingthus far.
I know pe other people will popup and I'll have competition,
and that's what I think is greatabout this space and about like
not drinking, is that it?
(42:26):
It really doesn't feel likecompetition.
I'm like, please everyone comeget non-alcoholic beverages for
your store.
Like everyone put it on yourmenu.
I just wanna see it everywhere.
That's the mission.
So I can never be angry atpeople wanting to do the same
thing because I'm like that's myultimate goal is that everywhere
has non-alcoholic options.
That everyone feels comfortablebringing those to a party and
(42:48):
that they're gonna enjoy theparty and like that's it.
They go home, they had their owndrinks, they didn't have to
think anything of it.
We shouldn't have to be thinkingthe whole time like, I can't
order a drink.
wanna order a drink.
That whole thing.
We can take that mental pieceoff of our plate and just enjoy
ourselves and do the things weactually think are fun.
(43:08):
So I know that was a long-windedanswer, but thank you for
allowing me to fully explain myjourney there.
Track 1 (43:16):
sobriety recovery, it's not a linear process.
It looks messy, it looks murky,but every experience, every like
quote unquote failure or likerelapse or whatever is just an
opportunity for you to pickyourself up, back up.
And it led me to this place thatI'm at now because I definitely.
(43:36):
You know, intended to quitdrinking many times in the past.
And it never stuck until itstuck
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (43:41):
Yeah.
Track 1 (43:41):
and it wouldn't have stuck unless I had messed up all
the aforementioned times.
So I think a lot of peoplerelate to that, and I love that
you're keeping everything withinyour community.
I think that is so powerful.
And this idea like competitiondoesn't exist because brands
that come in or other businessesthat will come in have the same
ethos as you, is so powerfulbecause you're serving the
(44:04):
greater community.
So it's like, it's notcompetition.
What's meant for you is for you.
And what's serving the communitywill serve the community.
So I absolutely love and respectthat so much.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (44:15):
Yeah.
Track 1 (44:15):
It's all about connection.
Have you ever thought aboutretreats?
I don't know why I could see youleading a retreat and I also
have never been to Phoenix, butI think of like, no, I think of
desert obviously, and I'm like,that would be an amazing place
to go and unplug and like sip onsome non-alcoholic bbs.
I don't know if you're, if.
Ever heard that or thought aboutdoing a retreat, but I feel like
you have such a common presence,like you would be great at it.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (44:36):
thank you.
And I, you're putting thethought in my head now, I'm
like, oh, I don't need anotherthing to like plan, plan out and
you know, like how it is withevents, you know, you're like
obsessing over every detail andlike all that I yeah, I mean
that, you make a good point.
There's so many beautiful placeshere in Scottsdale, Sedona,
like, you know, so many placesclose by Tucson.
(44:59):
That and I guess I am thinkingof that, just not necessarily as
hosted, but yeah, a destinationevent.
Yeah, we'll see.
I definitely use Instagram asmy, like end all, be all right
now.
So if I do any of that I willlet the people know for sure.
So my Instagram is dry in thedesert, just all one word
(45:23):
together.
So I do have a virtual bottleshop right now that does local
delivery and pickup options inthe Phoenix, like metro area.
So if you're following me, I'llpost if I'm doing like popups
and stuff.
So sometimes I'm popping up inScottsdale or Gilbert or
wherever in with other.
(45:47):
other events, and that gives anopportunity to shop in person.
I will bring like a mini bottleshop for those popups.
But yes, anytime you come outand for anyone listening to,
like if you're in this space, ifyou're in recovery or like just
wanna connect, dmm me there too.
And yeah, we can hang out.
(46:08):
So it doesn't have to be.
the shop or like at an event,just, I'm always down to make
more community and maybe we goto a place that has good
mocktails or na beers here andyeah, just connect.
That's what it's all about.
So anytime.
Track 1 (46:24):
Thank you Ellie for coming on.
I really appreciate you.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (46:27):
Thank you so much, Nadine.
I love you, your content, likeeverything you stand for.
So thanks for sharing andallowing me to be on too.
Okay guys.
So that's all I have to share.
I also wanna say thank you forbeing here, and thank you for
allowing me to hold space inyour day as you listen to this
podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
(46:49):
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
(47:10):
Bye bye.
Hello and welcome to the Sober
Butterfly Podcast.
The podcast where we uncork punintended, the stories behind the
sober journey.
I'm your host, Nadine Mulvina,and today's episode is a special
one featuring a remarkableindividual who has not only
embraced a life of sobriety, buthas also found success in a very
(00:21):
unique venture, a non-alcoholicbeverage shop.
Today we're joined with EllieSt.
Aubin.
Ellie is the proud owner of DryIn the Desert, which is a
virtual non-alcoholic bottleshop and offers event services
in the Phoenix, Arizona area.
Ellie, I'm so honored to haveyou on today.
How are you?
Elie, Dry in the Desert (00:39):
I am wonderful.
Thank you, Nadine, and I am sohonored to be here with you and
getting to talk to you face toface for the first time, really.
And yeah, thanks for thatintroduction.
I'm so excited to talk about.
What I'm up to and like how thatrelates to this whole movement
(01:00):
and sobriety being more open andhonest these days than behind
closed doors.
So I'm, yeah, super happy to behere and be connected with you.
Track 1 (01:10):
Yes, I'm so for the transparency, the visibility and
the inclusivity piece, and soonce again, thank you for coming
on.
I'm thinking just because it'sdry, January as we record this,
is this like an extra busy timefor you, Ellie?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (01:22):
Yeah, typically it would be and should
be.
And I've I knew that going intothe month to where I didn't
really overbook and like fulltransparency I have another
part-time job right now that I'mactually like transitioning out
of to.
(01:42):
my dry in the desert businessfull-time and like really
hitting the gas pedal on that.
So I took it slow for the monthbut it's busy in a general
sense.
I'm sure you can relate to likeonline and just seeing how much
people are posting about dryJanuary and different beverages
and like how to do it, how likemotivation so it feels busy even
(02:05):
if I'm not that busy with eventsand things like that.
I have a lot of friends andfamily that still drink alcohol
and when they'll try to do dryJanuary, they feel like they
can't go out and so they're likebored and anxious and I totally
get that'cause I was like thatfor a long time too.
But that's why I think havingnon-alcoholic beverage options
(02:27):
is like so important.
Even if there's alcohol theretoo, it's like that's the
movement I wanna see more of islike in restaurants and
hospitality places and just thatthe option is there and it's
just as normal as picking analcoholic option to where people
don't have to feel like I'mgoing out and ordering a water
and like, that's why I feel sootherly compared to everyone
(02:51):
else there.
Like, it's no wonder that wefeel that way.
So I feel like the tides areturning on that a little bit,
but socially it's not alwayseasy.
Track 1 (03:01):
Really quickly unpacking some of that.
It sounds like to me you werewise and decided to really focus
on balance and protecting yourpeace going into dry Jan because
it is such a busy time in thissobriety recovery space.
And I wish I would've talked toyou about that before I signed
up to do like all of theseevents for Dry, January.
And also, just a quick shout outto you, Ellie, because you
(03:22):
shipped me.
Some amazing bottles of Gruviand literally as I'm doing my
events, which is a blind wine,non-alcoholic tasting, it is a
fan favorite.
And I'm not just saying thatbecause I'm talking to you like
legitimately people go crazy forit.
So thank you for sharing thatwith me so I could share it with
my guests that come to myevents.
But also it's this idea thatlike, I don't wanna feel otherly
(03:45):
like you mentioned.
And then that's where, at leastmyself speaking, like in the
past also attempting thesechallenges, I would cave because
I'm like, well, this is boring.
What else is there for me?
Not feeling like there were asmany options on the market.
So I love this idea of justblending those two things, like
this idea that like you can havedifferent types of beverages
(04:07):
available firstly, and then noteverything needs to be the best
time of your life.
Like also being okay with justsitting in a little bit of
discomfort and adjusting to anew, you know, maybe a new
state, at least for me, like anew, literally, quite literally
a new state of being because Iwasn't used to going out and
(04:30):
being sober.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (04:31):
Yeah.
And I think that makes it clearof like what dry January really
is.
there's something to it.
'cause there's people who have,their sober date is January 1st,
so like, and they did achallenge and then they felt
really good and they kept goingand it's like, I think that's
wonderful.
And it has a place in the spaceand it's of course wonderful to
(04:51):
like take a month off.
Like, that's great for yourhealth, great for many benefits.
But I think when people almostlook at it as a challenge, it's
like they're white knuckling it,as we might say of just like,
I'm just gonna take alcohol out.
And then like.
Suffer through these 30 days andthen I can't wait for February
(05:13):
1st and I'm like, every dayspent without alcohol is great
because that's healthier foryour body and your mind
probably.
But I just don't think there'smuch else to like gain from
that.
Like the alcohol is really justthe tip of the iceberg, which I
feel like is a common saying,like common knowledge that
(05:34):
there's so much underneath.
But I just don't think I changedanything about me until I
started doing recovery workthat, There's just so much more
to it that we have to addressourselves and like work on or
else there you won't see as manybenefits, you know, like maybe a
little bit of health benefits.
But I think the biggest piece islike your mental health and your
(05:57):
state of being, like you said,is like what really changes as
we recover rather than as we arejust alcohol free for 30 days.
There can be a big difference.
So yeah, I'm like, I'm all aboutdry January.
I never completed one, but I'mlike, any day you wanna spend
without drinking is for you thandrinking.
(06:20):
So it's great.
But, I try not to like push ittoo much.
'cause I just think it's likeyou're either in the space of
like ready to change.
Or you're doing this for ahealth challenge and you
complete it and wonderful.
you're really like strugglingthrough it, that it's just each
person's own path.
It's, for me, it's just likeanother day., I'm dry always.
(06:44):
That's my important thing isbeing in more of the recovery
and like mental health journeythat I think is the most
transformative, rather than justgiving up booze for 30 days.
I wouldn't expect anything aboutmyself to, to change after that.
Track 1 (07:04):
beautifully said.
The white knuckling piece is soreal because that's what I would
do.
I would do it to prove to myselfwhen I'm doing these challenges
that I don't have a problem.
I would be like, oh, I can go 30days without alcohol.
To be real, Ellie, sometimes Icould not go 30 days without
alcohol.
What I loved about challengeslike Dry, January is it was like
(07:25):
good intel for me to startrecognizing, even if I didn't do
anything about it in the moment,it was like getting harder and
harder with time to ignore thefact that it was misery for me
to go without alcohol.
And then when I would cave also,I think I have this a small
touch of perfectionism, right?
So it's like if I did cave orrelapse or whatever, I would
(07:47):
regress immediately back to myold drinking ways because then
it was like, well, if you can'tdo it perfectly, then you won't
do it at all.
So it's like all of thesedifferent things in culmination.
But I love that you shared thatbecause to your point, getting
sober is usually just thebeginning, It's like removing
the substance is just where thereal work starts to begin.
(08:07):
And the transformation piece isso real.
And it reminds me, have youheard of the term dry drunk
before?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (08:14):
Yeah.
Track 1 (08:16):
Yeah.
So it sounds like a lot ofpeople may be walking around
being like a dry drunk.
Do you wanna share what yourversion or how you see dry
drunk?
Like how would you define that?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01- (08:27):
Opposite would be like emotionally sober.
Right.
So basically that emotionallyand in your reactions, you're
still acting as you were drunkor in like a using of the
substance space, which Yeah Ican relate to for sure I'm in a
(08:51):
recovery program, a 12 stepprogram.
I didn't see any like changes inmy.
Life until I started doing thatinner work and reflection.
So yeah, I can relate to a drydrunk means of just yeah, being
alcohol free and like seeming toget better life.
(09:17):
I feel like what it means to me.
To like the person going it.
Like maybe they're not aware ofit, but you imagine yourself of
just like all those things thatyou're like trying to heal by
giving up alcohol, but by notdoing any those things don't
magically go away withoutalcohol.
(09:39):
And I think the sad part, likethe hard part really with
alcohol, I try not to likedemonize it or judge anyone who
uses it especially in thenon-alcoholic beverage space,
like you really have to come toterms with sharing shelf space
with alcohol and you're notgonna make any friends judging
people who still drink
Track 1 (09:58):
Right.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (09:59):
in a, and a lot of people who are
drinking actually still drinkalcohol.
So there's a big market for justthe people who are like putting
things into their regimens.
but in the sobriety sense Ithink that it's just hard to
just quit and feel muchdifferent.
(10:21):
I guess actually what I wasgonna say or like what I was
trying to come back to was sadpart of alcohol is just the,
that it is like an addictivethat when we do feel, start
feeling all those thingsunderneath.
Without it, it is very hard tobreak the cycle of going back to
it and like you're saying oflike going straight back to,
(10:44):
well, I sucked at this, so like,this is how I'm coping with it.
I think that's really thehardest part that I feel was
like for me and what I can seeat least from other people.
I don't know, of course theirpersonal circumstances, but I
feel like that's sad part of it,that when we try to make
changes, it's like the si thecycle breaking is really the
(11:04):
hardest.
Thing to get out of using thatas your coping or like social
habit or whatever it is that'smost, that it's most prevalent
in your life.
Track 1 (11:14):
I totally agree with what you shared and.
I would define it in the sameway.
I love the parallel.
The paradox is, okay, dry drunkversus emotional sobriety.
And the funny part is, I did anepisode when I first started the
podcast, so season one withKeisha over at Done with
Debauchery.
And it was all about tabootopics in recovery, in sobriety.
(11:37):
And we touched on just thistopic, like dry drunks versus
emotional sobriety.
And I had no understanding ofwhat a dry drunk really was, and
Keisha didn't either.
But it wasn't until I reallystarted doing the inner work
like months after that interviewor that episode that I began to
see true transformation takeplace in my life.
(11:59):
I think I was so much angrier inthe beginning of my sobriety
because I.
To your point, as mentionedbefore, like I was white
knuckling my way through it.
Like I was just kinda like, oh,I'm not drinking.
Check every day.
It was like, did you drink?
No.
Great.
You're doing it.
But I wasn't really doing it.
I was just bearing through it.
And when I actually startedworking on myself and getting in
(12:21):
contact with other sober peopleand like understanding how to
work through my own trauma.
Because you mentioned theiceberg effect, right?
Like we're just scratching thesurface by removing the
substance or getting rid ofalcohol.
I was using alcohol as a symptomfor other things I needed to
work on.
So when I really started doingthat work, I saw tremendous
(12:44):
growth in my life and.
I actually feel like I'memotionally sober now, so I'm so
glad that you mentioned thatbecause I forgot about that.
The opposite of being a drydrunk is emotional sobriety.
Like, I feel like no matterwhat, removing alcohol, onlyi
has positive impacts, but itdoesn't mean that you are in a
place to actually change yourlife.
It's just more so changing yourstate of being, but it doesn't
(13:07):
touch on the psychological orthe emotional impacts of that.
Does that make sense?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (13:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, and I would say like thatis a big thing that I remind
myself every day of that like,it's so great that my sobriety
can propel my business.
In certain ways in that I canshare some of that with my
audience, but they are twoseparate things.
(13:34):
Sobriety and non-alcoholicbeverage shop.
Like what it is, a retail shop.
And I'm lucky that it like fitsand that, you know, it's not
like my job is running a analcoholic bottle shop.
I could still be sober and dothat, but, I'm lucky that it
like, goes along with my passionthat I get to intertwine them.
(13:56):
But at the same time, those arethe things I have to remember
for me is that my sobriety isseparate.
It's most important to me inthat I cannot be like some of my
customers who still drinkalcohol.
Like, that's not for me.
And I think those are things Ihad to learn over and over
(14:18):
again.
That brought me to sobriety nowand like happiness in sobriety,
like able to be happy that I'msober.
Where before, like the manyattempts before I still never
wanted to be sober.
So I was doing it'cause it feltlike needed to be and necessary,
I wasn't, I didn't want to be, Ididn't want that to be the end
(14:40):
all be all.
And now I'm like excited that Iget that chance and that
opportunity and have built agreat sober life so I'm glad you
said that just'cause ittriggered that thought of I
still have to keep that recoverypiece separate and at the
forefront.
Because I work right alongsidealcohol and I'm tasting things
(15:01):
that taste like alcohol I dodemos in total wine where I'm
just like surrounded by thesetall shelves of booze and just
staring at them for hours as I'msampling people on non-alcoholic
beverages and people saying,what's the point of that?
And, uh, no, we're here for thereal stuff and like.
You know, all day thosecomments.
So I'm used to it now, but it'slike, it's important for me to
(15:26):
keep my sobriety top of mind.
'cause that's different than mybusiness or what dry in the
desert is.
That's just like me as Ellie, mysobriety, my program, my
recovery.
Not necessarily everything Ishare on the internet, but just
something that to come first andthat I wouldn't have all these
(15:47):
other things that I have, Iwouldn't have my business like
without it because I justwouldn't be able to be that
productive I want people to knowthat there's a difference than
just like, oh, that's cool thatthere's like a non-alcoholic old
fashioned.
I'm like, yes, but like this issomething liberating for me.
(16:07):
So that's how I feel aboutnon-alcoholic beverages for me.
But that does not mean they workfor sober people
Track 1 (16:15):
I feel like, because you mentioned the 12 steps as a
recovery program, that issomething that you feel
connected to.
There are so many people that Imeet within AA, for example, who
look down upon, I'll say forlack of a better word right now,
but look down upon drinkingalcohol, free drinks that
resemble or mimic the taste ofalcohol.
(16:36):
Do you have any thoughts aroundthat?
Because obviously I do, Icelebrate and highlight feature
different non-alcoholic brandsbecause I like the inclusivity
piece as we touched on at thebeginning.
But what are your thoughts andhow do you respond to people
that are asking you for the realthing?
Like if you, they do a tastingat total wine and they're like,
uh, actually can we try, becauseI'm literally having the same
(16:58):
experience at my events.
Like people will come and Ieven, oh my gosh, I even had
this week someone come and theybought their own alcohol to my
tasting.
They're like, oh, they wannaspike my, the drink with
alcohol.
And I'm like, that's defeats thewhole purpose of why we're here.
So I know I just asked you twoseparate questions, but my first
(17:19):
question just to reiterate islike, how do you feel being a
part of, or there is notechnical membership, but just
in terms of like people whothink that you shouldn't drink
non-alcoholic beverages ifyou're in recovery, versus also
responding to people who areasking for real alcohol at your
(17:39):
events.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (17:41):
Yeah.
It's a great question'cause Ihave so many thoughts on it and
I could probably do a wholeepisode just on like that topic
because my personal experiencewith it.
When I first tried anon-alcoholic beer, I had like a
panic attack that I had ruinedmy sobriety.
I felt like I felt somethingfrom it because I think just
(18:04):
like the body memory is sostrong, especially with beer, I
feel like those, that taste canbe quite similar.
And so I hadn't, at that point,I hadn't had beer or any alcohol
for nine months, and I had that.
And so it was like very jarringto have that taste in my mouth
and like that feeling, thatmemory.
(18:24):
So I freaked out and scared andlike had to have someone talk me
off the ledge that I didn't justlike drink and ruin my time or
whatever.
And you know, after that I hadrelapsed, not like from that or
anytime close to that time, butlike later on I did drink, so I
was still not ready to letalcohol go.
(18:47):
And then now what I say is justthat it's like empowering and
liberating to have somethingwhere I can literally have my
beer and drink it too, withouthaving that.
Worry that I feel like it'sincredible that I can do that
because that is something that'sjust so hard to let go of, like
the ritual those things.
(19:08):
So I completely understand thelike, triggering piece of it
people come to me and are inrecovery or sober and have
expressed to me that they areconcerned about non-alcoholic
drinks or that they havestruggled to maintain sobriety,
give them like five warningsbefore I, I'm like, if I'm doing
(19:31):
a taste with them, like if it'sa friend or something, I'm like,
are you sure you want to tastesomething that tastes just like
wine or a taste just like beer,like this tastes just like it.
I need to tell you that upfrontit can be really, it feels
really weird I think for thefirst time.
So I just think it's such apersonal choice and I try to be
mindful of that to where I'm notjust like, oh yeah, you should
(19:55):
try this.
Like it's.
So good.
because I'm in recovery that Iat least have that experience to
be mindful of certain people'sreactions to it.
And I wanna cater to thosepeople because that's all why I
started this.
And I think there's anotherpiece too of alcohol removed
beverages.
So things that did containalcohol, and then it's been
(20:18):
removed even though it's likeless than 0.5%.
Alcohol by volume, they say thea ripe banana has the same
amount of alcohol.
For certain people and incertain situations they don't
want any.
And even though we might stickour nose up and be like, you're
not gonna get drunk.
(20:38):
It's literally no alcohol.
But I think for some people, andlike even for religious reasons,
so many different reasons likeif something did contain alcohol
at some point and then it wasextracted and there might be
residual amount fromfermentation.
don't wanna drink that, thenlike I think on them, that's
(21:00):
fine.
I try to be not judgmental inthat way either.
I want to provide both optionsof things that are just maybe
taste or like sparkling whiteteas where they just never
contained alcohol.
Again, it's like is my business.
I'm not gonna be responsible forsomeone.
Relapsing on a drink they boughtfrom me or something.
(21:23):
But like as a sober person inrecovery, I try to do my best to
educate on those things andthose differences so that the
person choosing the drinks feelsempowered to make that choice
and find something for thatworks for them.
So that was a long-windedanswer, but I always just say
like, yeah, I'm both like theDrake song.
(21:43):
I'm like, yeah, I'm in AA andI'm drinking non-alcoholic
drinks.
Like, I try to be confident.
I don't go into AA meetings andbe like.
here, try some NA beers or like,here's my, I don't talk about
drying the desert there, excuseme, or anything, but but in my
personal life I can confidentlysay that like, yes, I'm, I do
(22:04):
both and it's okay.
I feel like there's a little bitmore acceptance now.
It's just not something you'regonna bring up in the AA Yeah.
Track 1 (22:14):
You as a business owner, like your ethics are
aligned to your business.
I think that you being inrecovery as a sober person
really speaks volumes to how youtreat your audience or your
customers, like your consumersat the event.
And you're never gonna pressuresomeone for the sake of your
bottom line.
Like, I really think that isimportant.
So just kudos for that piece.
(22:37):
And I think just going back tothe dry drunk versus emotionally
sober piece, I think before whenI was a dry drunk, I would've
felt more triggered from thetaste of something like that.
It would drive me to maybe craveit versus now I have no desire
to.
Have any altered state ofconsciousness.
So me drinking is because Iactually like the taste, whereas
(23:00):
before when I used to drink itwas because I wanted to feel
something.
So I think that was just amoment, that aha moment I had
when you were sharing inrealizing that I think my
sobriety is not at risk or injeopardy when I try these
non-alcoholic beverages becauseI have no desire to ever drink
again.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (23:18):
Yeah, I think that's an
Track 1 (23:19):
Yeah.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (23:20):
to share out loud, like with your
audience, because other peoplewill feel the same way.
I feel like, especially thingsthat taste like alcohol, but
there's so many of these likenewer functional beverages that
are their own kind of likeherbally or like earthy tastes.
There's you know, like moment orsomething like sparkling.
Do you have one there?
(23:42):
Yeah, that's exactly what I waspicturing in my mind.
The leche like so good.
But it's like that obviouslytastes nothing like alcoholic.
It's like more like LaCroix,like better tasting, LaCroix
better ingredient type of thinghas adaptogens in it.
And now a quick word from ourpartners.
It really feels like you'rehaving a moment, pun intended.
(24:05):
When you're sipping on thelovely and refreshing moment.
Now, what I love about moment isthat not only does it taste
delicious, I have my favoriteflavors.
I love the blood orange.
I love the spicy mango, but it'salso good for you, which is
exactly what I need in my liferight now as I'm in my early.
30s.
It's infused with L theanine,which is great for mental
(24:28):
clarity.
It also is packed withashwagandha, which is great for
helping to fight stress.
It's made with all of thesenatural botanicals, which really
enhances your vitality.
It does not contain any addedsugar.
It's caffeine and of coursealcohol free and you can
purchase it in still orsparkling.
I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
(24:49):
take.
In the morning it's great for aboost to start the day versus in
the afternoon if you want tobeat that afternoon slump and
enhance your mental clarity orif you just need like a simple
pick me up like for me I love tohave a moment after the gym
versus going into the gymbecause it just really helps.
Reenergize me.
And then in the evening if youwant to wind down after a long
(25:12):
busy day and enjoy a deliciousmocktail without the hangover,
then Moment is great for thattoo.
One of the best parts for mewith Moment is I feel like it's
a really conscientious brand.
They donate 1 percent of alltheir sales to mental health non
profits so you can feel goodabout supporting greater causes
as well.
Head over to drinkmoment.
(25:32):
com and use my code TSB23 toreceive 12 percent off your very
first order.
Let's be moment buddies.
We can both have momentstogether.
So I think that's my true belief is
that there is non-alcoholicbeverages for every person that
it doesn't have to be at like anNA beer.
If that's something that don'tever wanna taste again because
(25:54):
you're sober, then like great.
That's why we provide a variety.
And yeah, like you said, I tryto be mindful at my events and
stuff of having always somethingthat is like a zero zero, always
something that doesn't haveadaptogens in it.
Just like if there's pregnantwomen there, like who knows?
And even though, even when Iknow like all the people that
(26:14):
are gonna show up, I'm justlike, people deserve, that's the
whole point is that they deserveoptions.
Not just like, I'm only gonnaserve you these non-alcoholic
cocktails and everything tasteslike either.
or Margarita or like whatever.
It's like everyone has their ownYeah.
Like past experience that's
Track 1 (26:33):
you.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20 (26:33):
affect how they wanna feel and what
they wanna taste and how theymove forward.
Track 1 (26:38):
Thank you.
That's the whole point of thisis there's something for
everyone.
And just going back to, youknow, any naysayers, I don't
wanna say naysayers, it's notnice, but people that may show
up with the expectation thatthey still want to drink, how do
you handle that?
This is a personal questionbecause I am still, you know,
unpacking my events and peoplebringing alcohol to be
(27:01):
non-alcoholic try January event.
How's that happened to you andlike, what do you do in those
moments?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2 (27:07):
that yeah, is very interesting
choice.
Yeah, I haven't had thatexperience personally, but have
thought about it because I,especially at first, I had those
concerns.
Or if we were to do a meetup ata restaurant and then someone
ordered booze or something whenit's like a parent that we're
(27:28):
here for like an alcohol freeevening, like how awkward that
would be.
And what would you, or would youhave to say you're not allowed
to do that?
I don't know.
So I I don't know if I haveadvice on that.
I think that's.
So strange because yeah, I'msure you're like, this is an
alcohol free wine tasting.
(27:48):
I think in general, like I, Itake it back to like the total
wine demos and stuff and I'llhave other people come up to me
and be like, it breaks theirheart when they're trying to
like, talk up non-alcoholicbeverages'cause they're a sober
person and then someone liketalks down on that and the
whole, like, why does thatproduct even exist?
Like, what's the point they, asober person sometimes takes
(28:13):
that really personally becausethey're like, do you know what
these mean to me?
How these have like, helped mechange my life, my drinking?
Like how empowering it is tohave a non-alcoholic beer.
so I think us in this spaceunderstand that.
But that's where it helps me tolook at like that business side
of it, of just that I'm like,person is like on their own
(28:36):
journey.
And like maybe that person thatshowed up.
Is like wanting to be sober.
If we think back to the times wewanted to stop drinking.
And I think of it now whenpeople tell me like, I'd love to
stop drinking and then I seethem post a glass of wine the
next day and that's not for meto like pass judgment on.
(28:56):
But I still believe them'causeI'm like, I was that person
where I wanted to stop drinkingand two days later, like I was
wasted.
So it
Track 1 (29:05):
Yeah.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (29:05):
to like, because of their actions
don't really portray maybe theirdesires.
So who knows, like you probablyknow from the actual situation,
but like maybe she really isinterested in learning about
these beverages and like cuttingdown on her drinking and maybe
she's in a spot of not feelinglike she can go to an event
(29:27):
without booze.
But if you look at it from likea whole story perspective, like
I think it can be really alesson to everyone who was
there, everyone who hears thisstory, that it's like, yeah, our
intentions, maybe her intentionswere right, or like that she
wants what you have and thisisn't quite there, you know?
Track 1 (29:48):
I have to give people grace and thank you for
reminding me that this was likea humanizing experience.
It was actually a couple, andbecause this event was in their
building, I feel like it waslike a crutch.
Like they just were like, oh,we're gonna go run upstairs
before we go down to this eventin the rec room and we're going
(30:09):
to just bring alcohol eventhough it's clearly a sober
event.
I made it a non-issue.
I didn't want to like.
Spend too much time harping onit.
I think my face probably gave itaway.
I was like, oh okay, that's notwhat we're doing.
But then I was just like, you'rewelcome to do whatever you want,
but like, also who adds liquorto wine?
So like, there's that piece too.
(30:30):
That would be weird.
So they didn't end up, you know,adding any alcohol or even
taking out of their tote bag.
Like you mentioned, some peopledo have intentions, but their
intentions aren't always alignedwith their actions yet.
And it doesn't mean that theydon't have a desire to learn
more or participate in mindfuldrinking.
It's just that like, maybethey're not there yet and I need
(30:51):
to not pass judgment.
But I was like lowkey judging.
I was just kinda like, why areyou here?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (30:56):
Yeah,
Track 1 (30:57):
Like, what do you think this is about?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-20 (31:00):
I'm gonna be honest in the moment I
like, I don't know what I woulddo and I probably would've been
the same way of just like, howdare you like bring that in this
space, but being told as a thirdparty, like what?
the situation was, I feel like Ican actually relate to them like
a I've attended like a boozefree wedding and I, yeah.
(31:26):
And I brought my own alcohol,you know, like that kind of
thing where like, they probablyjust didn't even, because
they're not in our world, like,they're not even thinking like,
oh, there's no booze allowed.
This is just like a booze freeevent, so I'm gonna bring my
own, I did that in so manydifferent situations that I
didn't think were a big deal butas the person hosting and all
that, like, I don't even thinkit's really your responsibility
(31:48):
to like, accept that or educatethem or, you know, like it's not
on us to.
To do anything with that, so I'msure it was like incredibly
awkward and hard to know what tosay or do,
Track 1 (32:01):
the more you're talking, the more it's reminding
me of like, who I was beforesobriety.
Because A, the humility piece islike, I would a never go to a
sober wedding.
I've been invited to soberweddings and declined the
invitation because there was noalcohol, there was no open bar.
So there's that piece.
And then I would just pre-game,I probably would've pre-gamed
for any event that it was clearlike a baby shower.
(32:23):
Even like I've, I have pre-gamedfor a baby shower.
I'm not exaggerating.
Maybe this is my full circlemoment, running into a couple
that would bring, you know,alcohol to a, an alcohol-free
dry January event.
So I'm really glad that youmentioned that.
And I do wanna touch reallyquickly as we wind down, just in
terms of, I know you'vementioned, and I can assume like
(32:44):
what inspired the idea for yourbusiness.
But I'm also just curious toknow what life looked like
before for you before youdecided to become sober.
I know that you have over 500days of sobriety.
So like what led you to sobrietyand then what sparked the idea
for drying the desert?
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (33:02):
Yeah.
So much it started with like asimple drunken argument with my
boyfriend at the time in like ahangover the next day.
This was in 2018, that I waslike, I just don't wanna feel
that way anymore.
That was my first time going toan AA meeting.
(33:24):
And I spent three months soberand just was dipping my toe in,
uh, of a recovery program.
Then I felt like I couldmoderate drinking again.
And so I started to moderateagain for a short second, and
then I found out I was pregnant.
So I spent time not drinkingagain, like dry drunk where I
(33:47):
wasn't still doing my recoveryprogram, but had, you know, nine
months sober.
But as soon as my child wasborn, I went back to drinking.
My lifestyle had changed becauseI was now a mom that I wasn't
going out parties late nights,but was still drinking a decent
(34:09):
amount and really enjoyeddrinking at that time.
Then there was Halloween nightwhen my son was 15 months at
that time, and it was time togo, so it was bedtime, and I was
pissed that I couldn't stay andkeep drinking with the rest of
my family.
and I was just like fuming onthe inside.
(34:30):
So nothing bad happened,hungover in the next day, but
emotionally.
I was like, wow, I just can'tbelieve I wanted so badly to
keep drinking over, taking myson home and care of his needs.
I don't ever wanna feel that wayagain.
I don't ever wanna prioritizethat over him.
(34:51):
again, was like, okay, I am donewith drinking.
A week later, find out I'mpregnant again.
So I spend another nine months,whatever, sober.
Then I have my second child andI didn't go right back to
drinking.
A couple months went by and Iwas feeling like the postpartum
(35:12):
depression and just likedepression in general, like the
things that I used alcohol tocope with.
And I had the wits about me tosay like, if I don't get help,
I'm gonna drink again.
So I stepped back into arecovery room and that was when
I went through all the steps andlike worked with a sponsor and
actually made changes to mylife.
(35:36):
And I still, again, like a year,let's see, so I made it a year
and a half, including mypregnant time.
So it was about like ninemonths, after that of going
through recovery all that whereI started to like get that itch
again and feel like I didn'twant alcohol to be off the table
for.
(35:58):
And it's so funny you saidsomething earlier of like that
you were doing the 30 daychallenges to like prove
something.
I took a sip of alcohol again toprove to alcohol that it didn't
have control over me, that I waslike, I'm not afraid of you.
'cause I was still living inthat fear of alcohol.
And I think that's a big shiftof like having the fear of NA
(36:19):
drinks.
I feel like that's Fear mindsetof like alcohol, having that
control over us and over ourmental game.
So was deciding to startmoderating again and the thing
was that I did it, it was likeover a summer, so like four
months.
But I was, it was so much mentalwork to decide when I could
(36:43):
drink and how much, and youknow, I had these 18 months
prior that had created abeautiful life that was
enjoyable.
So I had this 18 month old voicein my head to me still.
So I had a little bit of voiceof reason to not go off the deep
(37:04):
end.
And I think it's that thing oflike once you know about
alcohol, once you've seenrecovery, hard to turn that off
and like go back out in thatdeep way.
Obviously people do and it'snot.
Lost upon me that I was able toreel it in.
But the mental like obsessionwith alcohol came back and that
(37:25):
mental like bargaining withmyself of how much I can have
and when it's appropriate wasback.
And that's the part that likereally controlled my life
previously that I just saidlike, you know what, it's not
worth it to squeeze in a drinkhere and there'cause it takes
over even if I'm not allconsuming, it's taking over my
(37:46):
whole life and my mentalcapacity just to fit in a couple
drinks.
And the way I like to drink isnot with a couple of drinks.
That is zero fun.
NA beer has a point to me one ortwo drinks that I can't
understand.
Track 1 (38:01):
And I think many people will relate to your journey,
that mental fixation piece, myGod, Ellie, diluting myself into
thinking I could moderatealcohol, almost kept me stuck
because I was like, I can do itto prove to myself that I could
do it even when I couldn't doit.
But then when I could do it, itwas just like obsessing over,
(38:21):
you know, calculating the numberof drinks I can have per night.
And when I can have my other, Iliterally remember one time
going to dinner.
With a girlfriend and mimickingher, like literally like
mirroring her sips of wine tolet me know that it was time for
me.
Like, okay, I can have a sip ofwine now because all I wanted to
(38:41):
do was guzzle mine Back andlike, just gimme the bottle.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-202 (38:45):
We can take that mental piece off
of our plate and just enjoyourselves and do the things we
actually think are fun.
Now my sober date is 2022, soyou know, that was a four year
journey to even get to thatpoint, to make that decision
again.
And then I was, I say startingover on count, but I.
of that work I did before led meto making that decision again.
(39:09):
That it's, no time wasted.
And that, even that last timegoing out and trying to drink
was just like, so necessary.
You know, not something Irecommend of someone relapsing,
but it was just for me, likethat was part of my journey and
showed me so much of like what Iwant out of a sober life.
And now I try to work hard onthat.
(39:31):
And now I, that's why I saylike, I'm happy I get to make
this choice and stay sobertoday.
As far as how it led to dryingthe desert was just like feeling
like I had finally foundcommunity a little bit in
recovery.
I feel like that is, can be hardto.
Make friends or like friendsyour age or friends you wanna do
things with outside of recoveryrooms that I had like finally
(39:53):
found that.
And I was like, well, like whatcan we do together?
Are we gonna go get food orsomething?
And the first thought that cameto mind was like, will I ever
get dressed to the nines withthese people and be at a fancy
gala?
The thought was just like, whynot?
Like, shouldn't there be analcohol free gala where everyone
is informal at higher, there'salcohol free champagne in a
(40:15):
glass, flute, not plastic.
I want everything that I'vealways had or like that everyone
else has just without alcohol.
So it was just envisioning thatsocial world.
With alcohol completely takenoff the table.
So I started doing it just assmall events, you know, just
popup, just my friends andfamily showing up to show
(40:36):
support, and grew from there.
And events are hard work as younow know that it's like, it's so
much work.
And was not a past event planneror anything, like, that's not
really my thing.
So I still do them, but I lovedoing that like casual kind of
meetup and nothing too crazy orlike too much production behind
(40:59):
it.
I moved to that, thenon-alcoholic beverage.
'cause that was just the passionI had.
And like I said, I just trulybelieve it's been liberating for
me that I get to have thosedrinks and my sobriety.
So I worked on the groovy sideof things and got to see the
like brand and industry part ofit more than just the sobriety
(41:21):
part of it.
Like this is a, an industry anda business and possible and
trending.
So, you know, I got to learn theins and outs of the business
side of the non-alcoholicbeverage industry, which is what
led me like, I think I can dothat here.
And you know, I'm still figuringout my way as exactly how it's
(41:44):
gonna end up looking.
Just trying everything andseeing what I like and what I
don't like and what the Phoenixand Arizona community want.
'cause that's my biggest pieceof the business.
You know, it's aboutnon-alcoholic beverages and
socializing.
And then the other half is aboutsupporting my community where
I'm at.
(42:04):
I don't, you know, like shipanything out of state or like.
not looking to go national nenecessarily.
It's about like reallysupporting my community because
I feel like it's been lackingthus far.
I know pe other people will popup and I'll have competition,
and that's what I think is greatabout this space and about like
not drinking, is that it?
(42:26):
It really doesn't feel likecompetition.
I'm like, please everyone comeget non-alcoholic beverages for
your store.
Like everyone put it on yourmenu.
I just wanna see it everywhere.
That's the mission.
So I can never be angry atpeople wanting to do the same
thing because I'm like that's myultimate goal is that everywhere
has non-alcoholic options.
That everyone feels comfortablebringing those to a party and
(42:48):
that they're gonna enjoy theparty and like that's it.
They go home, they had their owndrinks, they didn't have to
think anything of it.
We shouldn't have to be thinkingthe whole time like, I can't
order a drink.
wanna order a drink.
That whole thing.
We can take that mental pieceoff of our plate and just enjoy
ourselves and do the things weactually think are fun.
(43:08):
So I know that was a long-windedanswer, but thank you for
allowing me to fully explain myjourney there.
Track 1 (43:16):
sobriety recovery, it's not a linear process.
It looks messy, it looks murky,but every experience, every like
quote unquote failure or likerelapse or whatever is just an
opportunity for you to pickyourself up, back up.
And it led me to this place thatI'm at now because I definitely.
(43:36):
You know, intended to quitdrinking many times in the past.
And it never stuck until itstuck
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (43:41):
Yeah.
Track 1 (43:41):
and it wouldn't have stuck unless I had messed up all
the aforementioned times.
So I think a lot of peoplerelate to that, and I love that
you're keeping everything withinyour community.
I think that is so powerful.
And this idea like competitiondoesn't exist because brands
that come in or other businessesthat will come in have the same
ethos as you, is so powerfulbecause you're serving the
(44:04):
greater community.
So it's like, it's notcompetition.
What's meant for you is for you.
And what's serving the communitywill serve the community.
So I absolutely love and respectthat so much.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (44:15):
Yeah.
Track 1 (44:15):
It's all about connection.
Have you ever thought aboutretreats?
I don't know why I could see youleading a retreat and I also
have never been to Phoenix, butI think of like, no, I think of
desert obviously, and I'm like,that would be an amazing place
to go and unplug and like sip onsome non-alcoholic bbs.
I don't know if you're, if.
Ever heard that or thought aboutdoing a retreat, but I feel like
you have such a common presence,like you would be great at it.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (44:36):
thank you.
And I, you're putting thethought in my head now, I'm
like, oh, I don't need anotherthing to like plan, plan out and
you know, like how it is withevents, you know, you're like
obsessing over every detail andlike all that I yeah, I mean
that, you make a good point.
There's so many beautiful placeshere in Scottsdale, Sedona,
like, you know, so many placesclose by Tucson.
(44:59):
That and I guess I am thinkingof that, just not necessarily as
hosted, but yeah, a destinationevent.
Yeah, we'll see.
I definitely use Instagram asmy, like end all, be all right
now.
So if I do any of that I willlet the people know for sure.
So my Instagram is dry in thedesert, just all one word
(45:23):
together.
So I do have a virtual bottleshop right now that does local
delivery and pickup options inthe Phoenix, like metro area.
So if you're following me, I'llpost if I'm doing like popups
and stuff.
So sometimes I'm popping up inScottsdale or Gilbert or
wherever in with other.
(45:47):
other events, and that gives anopportunity to shop in person.
I will bring like a mini bottleshop for those popups.
But yes, anytime you come outand for anyone listening to,
like if you're in this space, ifyou're in recovery or like just
wanna connect, dmm me there too.
And yeah, we can hang out.
(46:08):
So it doesn't have to be.
the shop or like at an event,just, I'm always down to make
more community and maybe we goto a place that has good
mocktails or na beers here andyeah, just connect.
That's what it's all about.
So anytime.
Track 1 (46:24):
Thank you Ellie for coming on.
I really appreciate you.
squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20- (46:27):
Thank you so much, Nadine.
I love you, your content, likeeverything you stand for.
So thanks for sharing andallowing me to be on too.
Okay guys.
So that's all I have to share.
I also wanna say thank you forbeing here, and thank you for
allowing me to hold space inyour day as you listen to this
podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
(46:49):
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
(47:10):
Bye bye.
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