Michael Muldoon is a magician turned teacher who is passionate about using his skills to help educators build powerful connections with their students. Michael decided to quit drinking alcohol to become the best version of himself, utilizing his passion for magic and teaching.
Growing up in New York City, Michael faced numerous hardships. At a young age, tragedy struck when his family house burned down, leading to struggles in school and a period of truancy as he grappled with the aftermath of the fire.
Amidst the chaos, Michael discovered solace and purpose in magic. The art of illusion became his sanctuary, offering him an escape from the harsh realities of his surroundings. Through dedicated practice and unwavering determination, Michael honed his skills, finding a sense of empowerment and control in the world of magic which led to work with Magicians Without Borders, an organization focused on helping underprivileged youth get off the streets and pursue higher education. Through his work with Magicians Without Borders, Micheal decided to pursue a career in teaching. Drawing upon his own experiences, he became a beacon of hope and guidance for his students, instilling in them the importance of resilience, perseverance, and self-belief.
Join us as we explore Michael Six Muldoon's inspiring journey from the depths of drinking to the pinnacle of teaching excellence, proving that with determination and courage, anything is possible.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello, and welcome to the SoberButterfly Podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest, Michael.
Hi, my name is Michael, sixMuldoon, and I'm very excited to
be here.
Michael Six Muldoon, also knownas Magic Mike.
No, I'm kidding.
only.
I call you Magic Mike.
Only you.
Wow.
But oh no, that sounds peopleare gonna have questions, you
guys.
You guys start calling him MagicMike.
(00:22):
So I'm not the only one anyway.
Michael, you are a magician,hence the nickname, Magic Mike.
you are also an educator.
You are a TEDx speaker.
You are a sober friend.
You are just a long laundry listof many things.
do you feel like if I accuratelydescribes you as a good intro?
It's a start.
It's just scratching thesurface.
(00:44):
So today I'm really excited tohave you on because first of
all, also just FYI.
You are the first male guestwe've had on the show.
How does that make you feel?
I feel honored.
I hope I do it justice.
That's going to be his greatestaccolade.
I think this is going to be thetop of the resUme now.
So I want to talk a little bitabout your experiences,
obviously in sobriety.
(01:04):
what it's like to be a magicianand educator.
Cause I feel like that is a lesscommon profession, but super
cool.
And yeah, let's get into it.
Let's start from the beginning.
Is that cool?
Yeah.
Let's go all the way back.
All the way back.
To the very start.
No, you're a true New Yorker.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat it was like growing up in
Queens.
Being born and raised in NewYork and how some of those
(01:26):
earliest formative memories haveshaped who you are today.
Yeah, for sure.
I grew up in Queens, New York.
So shout out to Queens, myQueens people listening in.
I grew up originally in Maspethand now I live in Ridgewood,
which apparently is the fourthcoolest place in the world.
According to time out in NewYork, I don't know where they
got that from.
Someone paid a lot of money forthat.
That was not supposed to gohard.
It's a great neighborhood, butfourth coolest in the world,
(01:48):
like in the world, who are theylying to?
Come on, but yeah, I grew up inQueens born and raised and so as
I mentioned earlier, I lived inMaspeth when I was a child.
Eventually we had to leavebecause my house burned down.
That's crazy.
When I was 11 years old.
And that's kind of whereeverything started.
And I think in many ways, itkind of led me to this very
(02:08):
moment.
And I say that because Well, letme tell you the story of the
house burning down.
Yeah, we need to know more aboutyour house.
I was in the basement when mybrother and his best friend was
sleeping over at the time and wehear beeping upstairs and I'm
like, Oh, let me go.
Well, they, I say, let me go.
But they told me to go.
Cause I was the youngest onethere.
So you go check the alarm.
So I go check on the beeping andmy father's in bed.
(02:30):
It was early morning.
And he's like, I'll just checkthe hall.
Let me know what's up.
I opened the door and you justsee.
Just smoke.
You can't see anything.
And the people upstairs arerunning up and down the stairs.
And I guess they were takingstuff and trying to get it out
of the house.
And I'll go back in and tell myfather and my hand, I can't see
him in the hallway becausethere's smoke everywhere.
And then he tells me to get outof the building.
So I go across the street andthen he tells everybody else
(02:50):
that was in the house and that'ssort of where the, this story
begins.
My mother wasn't in the house atthe time.
So my brother goes to get herand she tells me all the time
the story, like she was like,yeah, I saw him and I was like
so confused cause he came to myjob and then he wasn't wearing
shoes.
Wow.
Like he literally ran out thehouse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean we just took what youjust get out.
That's exactly what happened.
So she had to come back and wehad to deal with that and the
(03:11):
entire second floor was wipedout.
So it's a two family house.
So that the house itself wasdestroyed and we had to to get
out of there.
And Where did you go?
Like where, after your house isdestroyed, where do you live?
So, yeah.
At the same exact time, this is,I guess, I don't know the full
story to what exactly washappening, but my parents
actually separate at this time.
So my mother takes me and Threeboys, she has four boys, which
(03:34):
takes three of us.
And one of my brother brotherswas already out of the house at
the time.
She takes us to my aunt's houseand we end up sleeping in a
basement on cots until we cansave enough money to find a
place to live.
She slept on like this, likeoversized, like chair and had a
cot.
And sometimes my other brotherwould sleep on a pool table.
It's just what we had availableto sleep.
We did that for a few monthsuntil my mother could save the
(03:55):
money to find a place to live,which ended up bringing us to
Ridgewood, New York.
Okay.
So you have this, like.
Early formative memory of yourhouse literally burning down.
Yeah.
And you're dealt to live withthe wreckage of that.
So what was the aftermath?
So your parents separated,you're now living somewhere
completely different.
And I'm assUming you maybe hadto go.
(04:17):
Like, like look different foryou.
So what like and how did youcope with that change?
You lose your friends.
And I think that was the mostdifficult thing.
And I didn't cope with it verywell.
I say that because I ended upstruggling in school, which is
ironic, considering I'm ateacher.
So, I lost all my friends.
This is, you know, like pre cellphones and texting and social
media as being a thing.
(04:37):
So.
All the friends that I used toplay sports with or whatever the
case was, I don't see themanymore because it lives too far
and I had to continue going tomy middle school at this time by
taking a bus that I was notfamiliar with and just travel
back and forth.
It's all new things, not seeingmy father all the time.
All of this had a impact and itshowed because I have report
cards from middle school where Ihave 55, 55, 55.
(04:59):
Right.
I've gotten to like argUmentsand incidents with teachers.
Yeah.
Then eventually I was prettymuch up.
I don't know if I was kicked outor my mother transferred me
outta the school, but I had anincident with a teacher and then
I had to leave the school.
So whether that was my mother'schoice just to move to a closer
school, whether the schoolforced me out.
Right.
I don't fully recall, but itdidn't change'cause I ended up
going to middle, closer tomiddle school, which is nice
(05:20):
'cause it was closer.
But then again, now I don't knowanybody.
I don't have any friends there.
Right.
So it's, that's gonna be there.
And then eventually when I gointo high school, all of these
things are leading to me cuttingschool a lot.
I see.
So I wasn't.
a good student, which usuallyyou think, Oh, teacher, you must
have been a scholar.
That wasn't the case.
I actually have a letter from mymy high school that says Michael
(05:41):
is a danger to others.
Oh my gosh.
It's so crazy.
Cause like sitting next to you,this version of you today, like
I would never think that wasyour history or your past.
A lot of people tell me that.
But that's, you know, those arethe incidences that made me who
I am today, right?
You go through these experiencesand you start to get this
understanding.
(06:01):
And maybe it was all meant tobe.
And I think that's a crazy thingto say, but it led me, in many
ways, to Magic.
Because now that I wasn't seeingmy friend all the time, one day
he invites me to go to a Metsgame.
And he's like, I got tickets tothe Mets game, let's go watch
the game.
So we ended up taking the bus toit was, MetLife.
MetLife, and that's Jersey.
I don't know.
City Field.
(06:22):
Cityville.
Or Shea StadiUm.
Are you sure it's not calledMetLife?
MetLife, no.
Not even close.
But Shea.
And we go watch the Mets, andwe're coming back, and he's
like, yo, like, I know thisfunny store.
Let's go to this place.
So we hop off the bus onQueensborough Boulevard and
Grand Avenue is the location,which is ironic because I teach
very close to that now.
And there's a story between thetwo called Rogue Magic and Fun
(06:42):
Shop.
And we go in and he's like, Oh,he's trying to buy some
practical jokes and the guy atthe counter shows me a magic
trick and I'm absolutely blownaway and I was like, what in the
world?
And he was like, I was like, canyou tell me how it's done?
He's like, no, we don't giveaway our secrets.
And I was like, Oh, so like, howdo I learn?
How do I be a magician?
He's like, yeah.
5 I could tell you Which isironic, right?
We don't give away our secrets,but we'll sell them to you.
(07:04):
Yes Everything was a price.
Yeah, so Let them know so I endup Spending my last 10 there
cause I bought two magic tricks.
Okay.
I'm like, and then that's it.
I was bit by the bug.
I go home.
I show my mom these tricks.
She freaks out.
I'm like, I need more tricks.
I need to go back and buy more.
How much did you spend?
(07:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they ended up having a showthere every Saturday night.
So then I started taking the busthere to go see the shows on
Saturday night.
I'd pay to watch the show.
And then eventually after beingthere long enough, like Hey, you
want to like run the curtains?
Like you want to help outsomething you want to pay for
the show.
And Before I knew it, I wasended up working in the magic
shop and how does this all tieinto school?
Well, I was cutting school a lotin high school.
(07:47):
Now we're cut school to go workat the magic shop.
Oh, wow Yeah, and the magic shopwas really this interesting
place It was like a safe havenbecause it really took kids that
you wouldn't expect and put themall in one place there was Gang
members, drug dealers, kids whowere doing great in school all
in this one place comingtogether over this idea of
(08:08):
magic.
And it was fascinating to be apart of that.
Interesting cast of characters.
Yeah.
There's actually ironicallyBacardi did a video about the
store and some of us and it wascalled, You cannot use that
word.
I'm sorry.
I'm joking.
Oh my goodness.
Bacardi did not sponsor thisvideo.
They did not.
But there was, Bacardi did avideo you said?
Yeah.
So what they did is they picked25 of the most irrepressible
(08:30):
spirits in the world.
Irrepressible spirits?
Yeah.
Wow.
Was all kinds of stories.
It was a guy who built like arollercoaster in his backyard
for somebody.
I forget what it was like.
I can't help it.
I'm sorry, Michael.
But irrepressible spirits.
Funny because Bacardi repressespeople's spirit.
Sorry.
It's a great video.
You want to watch it.
It's a great video.
(08:50):
I'll plug it.
Like if you search like Bacardimagic, I think it's called a
magic man.
It's interesting and it givesyou a little insight into the
shop.
And in many ways it saved ourlives and magic in many ways
saved my life.
And it's just that kind of weirdsituation.
It really feels like you'rehaving a moment, pun intended,
(09:12):
when you're sipping on thelovely and refreshing moment.
Now what I love about moment isthat not only does it taste
delicious, I have my favoriteflavors, I love the blood
orange, I love the spicy mango,but it's also good for you,
which is exactly what I need inmy life right now as I'm in my
early teens.
30s.
It's infused with L theanine,which is great for mental
(09:35):
clarity.
It also is packed withashwagandha, which is great for
helping to fight stress.
It's made with all of thesenatural botanicals, which really
enhances your vitality.
It does not contain any addedsugar.
It's caffeine and of coursealcohol free and you can
purchase it in still orsparkling.
I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
(09:55):
take.
In the morning it's great for aboost to start the day versus in
the afternoon if you want tobeat that afternoon slump and
enhance your mental clarity orif you just need like a simple
pick me up like for me I love tohave a moment after the gym
versus going into the gymbecause it just really helps.
Reenergize me.
And then in the evening, if youwant to wind down after a long
(10:18):
busy day and enjoy a deliciousmocktail without the hangover,
then Moment is great for thattoo.
One of the best parts for mewith Moment is I feel like it's
a really conscientious brand.
They donate 1 percent of alltheir sales to mental health
nonprofits, so you can feel goodabout supporting greater causes
as well.
Head over to drinkmoment.
(10:39):
com and use my code TSB23 toreceive 12 percent off your very
first order.
Let's be moment bunnies.
We can both have momentstogether.
At the same time, my best friendwho was a former gang member was
presenting at a magicconference.
He was competing in acompetition and he was doing an
act where he talks about, like,how magic saved his life from
(11:01):
being in a gang.
And in the audience was a mannamed Tom Verner, who was the
founder of an organizationcalled Magicians Without
Borders.
Wow.
So he meets Devante, says, Iwork with these kids in El
Salvador.
We do gang prevention there.
You should come join and speakto these kids.
So maybe fate had its way thatday.
Bringing that all together and Ieventually would meet Tom and I
(11:22):
would start traveling withMagicians Without Borders and I
would go on to be the vicepresident of the organization.
And for those who don't know,Magicians Without Borders is a
non profit organization thatuses magic to entertain,
educate, and empower at riskyouth all over the world.
And it's a beautifulorganization.
Tom is an incredible hUman beingand they're doing incredible
work.
So I, yeah, I served two yearsas the vice president and it's
(11:44):
still something that I hold nearand dear to my heart.
And did a lot of trips to ElSalvador, some to Guatemala.
And that's my magic journey.
That's beautiful.
I kind of want to unpack some ofthat.
So as a magician, there's alwaysthis allure, right?
That draws people in, which isthe magic, which is the way that
you can.
(12:08):
Distorting truth in ways.
How has being a magician changedthe way that you view?
Everything or does it change theway that you do?
It does.
100%.
It does.
I've really shaped myperspective.
In many ways, like there, thereis a way of thinking like a
magician and everything I see, Ithink through the lens of a
magician and one of my, a friendof mine, Joshua J wrote a great
(12:31):
book called how magicians think,which is like, what's the, like,
what is the processing, likewhen we're doing tricks and what
tricks do we pick and that kindof thing.
But I think on a deeper level,there's also like this
processing that happens whenwe're performing or analyzing a
person and you have to know youraudience.
You have to be able to see theperson in front of you and pay
attention to where their eyesare looking and control their
attention and use all that toyour advantage in order to
(12:54):
create the illusion that you'retrying to create.
And magicians historically havelong been at the forefront of
technology and communication andusing all of these things to
create the best illusion thatthey can.
There's a lot of technologythat's coming out now, like,
stuff that magicians have beenusing for years.
Really?
Yeah.
I don't know if I can give awayall the little secrets, but one
(13:15):
of the things that magicians usefor a specific trick that I
can't say because I think You'llbe able to connect the dots.
They're now using a major leaguebaseball to communicate with the
pitchers.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's kind of cool.
So it's, so that perspective ofalways seeing where technology
is going, where the world isgoing and how we can use those
things to our advantage tocreate these illusions,
(13:36):
understanding hUman beings andthe way they think and how to
control attention, these are allmethods that we're using to
ultimately create a greatexperience for people.
But it also shapes my worldviewand how I see things when I go
into education, like, I don'tknow, I don't see it like a
normal teacher.
It's not just about being hereand teaching kids.
It's like, how do I make thisentertaining?
(13:57):
How do I create experiences?
How do I create moments ofwonder that they can remember
for the rest of their life?
Yeah.
So you're igniting passion.
By almost like through thisperformative aspect of tapping
into your work as a magician.
Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaking of performativemeasures, I think a lot of
performers feel the pressure toperform sometimes and then use
(14:20):
alcohol as a means to give theirbest performance.
How did you use alcohol or didyou use alcohol when you were?
Performing your magic tricks orbeing in that industry and
having an inside look in thatworld.
do you feel that people did usealcohol all the time?
It was, yeah, I mean, all thetime people were either having
(14:41):
drinks before their show orafter their show.
Like you have a drink before,you know, just to take the
nerves off before you go onstage or you're just hanging out
with other magicians and youhave a few drinks at dinner
before showtime.
And then you go do the show.
I don't know if that'snecessarily healthy.
I don't know.
I mean, it's.
Was it like normed?
Like, do you feel like it wasalmost like a societal
expectation?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Like a hundred percent.
(15:01):
Like it was it's, I can't eventhink of now that I think of
like magicians that I'm, youknow, friends with or however,
that I haven't spoken to a whilethat I see before they go on
show.
Like, Oh, having a drink beforeshow or drinking, you know,
backstage before the showstarts.
And I think that's very commonand and probably in most
performance performances I canimagine.
But I've definitely seen thatthroughout magic being in the
magic shop.
You know, you know, we're.
(15:22):
A bunch of kids that, you know,were hanging out on the streets
when we came together in thismagic shop.
I was introduced at an earlyage, like 16, 17 to alcohol,
thankfully around people whoweren't doing, you know, bad
things per se.
So I felt safe at the very leastkind of in a controlled
environment, I guess.
But yeah, I know it'severywhere, especially in
(15:43):
performances and the magicindustry.
Yeah, there's a, I can think ofsome great magicians too.
And I had some friends that werereally phenomenal magicians and,
you know, alcohol was justwinning and it was throwing them
off the game.
And I can only imagine how farthey could have gone if it
wasn't for alcohol beinginvolved somewhere in there.
And I can think of, you know,some major names in magic that
(16:04):
if any magicians were listening,they would be like, Oh yeah, I
know that guy.
And You know, it's sad becauseit probably could have been so
much more if it wasn't for thealcohol being involved.
Interesting.
And so you sort of transitioned.
What I don't want to say awayfrom the magic because you still
are a magician.
Yeah.
More full time into theclassroom and into education.
(16:25):
What inspired that transitionfor you?
Oh man, this is good.
So, as I mentioned, I wasn't agood student.
And one day I'm cutting schoolbecause that's what I did.
And I was just a normal day.
It was like probably like aTuesday or something.
And I'm working in a magic shop.
And we opened like early thatday because usually the store
opened at like one, but I thinkthat they opened at like 12 and
(16:46):
this guy comes in and he'sasking, you know, for some
recommendations on what trickshe should buy.
I show him a few tricks.
He picks the ones that he likes.
And at some point he turns to meand goes, Hey, like, what school
do you go to?
And I go, Oh, I got a GroverCleveland high school.
And he's like, no way I workedthere.
Oh no.
And he looks at me throughsquinted eyes and he goes, it's
a little early to be out ofschool, isn't it?
It's like noon on a weekday.
Like, but wait, why are youhere?
(17:06):
And then I looked at him and Iwas like, it's a little early to
be out of work.
Like, what are you, why are youhere?
And we ended up having a greatconversation.
I told him about how I hatescience class and he gave me the
same science teacher every year.
And she would drive me crazy.
And then he told me about how heloved magic.
And he actually made anagreement with me, and he said,
if you meet me each day on mylunch break, I'll teach you
science for half the period, andthen you can teach me magic for
(17:27):
the other half.
Wow.
And he used it, and it actuallygot me into school for a pretty
good amount of time before Istarted cutting again.
But you know, one of the thingsthat was Difficult about being
in school is that I wasn't like,I wasn't like a dUmb kid.
Like I was a smart enough kidthat I was in class.
I'd get my work done and then Isit there with my cards in my
hand and my teacher would yellat me, tell me how I'm never
(17:48):
going to amount to anything, howI'm wasting my time with those
deck of cards, put them away.
And like, just basicallycrushing my dreams that I had of
being a magician.
But here's this one guy whobelieved in me and not only
believed in my dreams of being amagician, like he embraced it
and said, Hey, come teach me.
And that's, you know, that, howmany times do you hear?
Teachers asking students toteach them something, you know?
(18:10):
Right.
That's rare.
Exactly.
So, you know, he gave me thisself-confidence, this belief in
me.
And so that's one of the aspectsto why I became a high school
teacher, because I wanted to behim.
I wanted to be the teacher thatcan see kids and understand
their passions and have thembelieve in themselves so that
they can reach those things too.
That's beautiful.
And on the other side of that islike with Tom Verner, when we
were doing Magicians WithoutBorders, we would raise money
(18:33):
and pay for kids to go toschool, like high school.
In El Salvador, you have to payto go to high school college and
all that kind of stuff.
And we're raising money to putthese kids through school.
I mean, I eventually, I did endup doing my associates in
business, but like I saw we werepaying for these kids to do
their schooling.
I was like, you know, maybe Ishould like finish and do more
schooling, you know, like be theexample for these kids.
So I ended up deciding to finishmy bachelor's degree.
(18:55):
And while that was happening.
My mother worked in a school andshe was like, Hey, we need a
school aid.
It's a light job.
It's only a few hours a day, butyou can do this since you're not
gonna be traveling, doing themagic anymore.
You can do this to make someincome while you're going to
school, which I ended up doing.
And other teachers in the schoolwas just like, Oh, these kids
love you.
You're like, they push me.
Like you should, you'll be agreat teacher.
You should really consider it,consider this.
(19:15):
And eventually I was like, youknow what?
Let me do this.
So like, I got pushed bysomebody else actually gave me a
plan.
There's a gentleman, Eric Checo,who I work with, great guy.
He was like, dude, like, I'lljust tell you what I did.
Like I did this.
And I ended up going to theteaching fellows, which is a
program.
And that's how I met you.
So, everything comes fullcircle.
Like life doesn't happen byaccident.
So, and that's how I went toteaching.
(19:36):
So I became a teaching fellow,studied political science and
then ended up becoming a specialeducation teacher.
Amazing.
At this point in life, what wasyour relationship like with
alcohol?
It wasn't anything like crazy.
Like it wasn't to the point thatI'm imagining you're like mid
twenties.
Yeah, well this is right.
So I mean, I got into teachingat like, I think I started
(19:58):
teaching at 30.
I was a school later, like 27,28.
Cause I was coming back later.
Yeah.
Definitely was, you know, liketraveling and doing magic.
There's a lot of alcoholinvolved.
You go to any magic convention,they have these major magic
conventions.
You'll find all the magicianshanging out at the bar.
And it's just so normalized toalways be drinking and working
on magic.
So for those, for the, duringthose times that I was hanging
out with magicians, there was alot of drinking going on.
(20:20):
And then when I moved intoeducation it wasn't so crazy.
I mean, I think just normalstuff but no norm, the normal is
not okay.
Right.
This idea of normal alcoholusage is not okay.
Right.
Because there's no such thing asnormal alcohol usage.
It's legit just poison, right?
If you're ingesting poison overand over again, it's never going
to be okay.
(20:41):
And.
The I guess the turning pointfor me It wasn't necessarily
like this major bad thinghappened Like I can definitely
have incidents of like when Iwas drinking like I was stupid.
I should have said that I shouldhave done that Like that regret
waking up hungover wasting yourdays headaches, but there was a
(21:01):
point in my life where I said tomyself I want to be the best
version of me, whatever capacitythat is.
And to do that, you have to actwith integrity to yourself.
So, I mean, you have to saysomething and then act in
accordance with that, make yourwords, match your actions for
you, not for other people.
And I think I was fortunate inthat sense that it really came
down to me, you know, I think,you know, other people.
(21:25):
And they try to change for otherpeople because they feel bad for
the way they acted or saidsomething to someone or did
things like that.
So they go down that route.
I just really wanted to be abetter version of myself.
And I didn't like where I waswhen I drank.
Not that I was even that bad.
It's just it just wasn't inalignment with the person that I
wanted to be.
And I think that's such animportant thing to ask yourself
is like, who are you?
And who do you want to be?
(21:46):
And what is the best version ofyou look like?
And then if you create thisblueprint of this is the best
Michael and These are the thingsthat show that this Michael is
being the best him right?
I can wake up each morning andact in accordance with that.
I think that's integral.
Like, this idea of wanting to bethe best version of yourself and
visualizing what that lookslike, I think is important.
(22:08):
Right?
But the added piece that isoften overlooked is what
actions.
Must this person do inaccordance to becoming that
version of self, because it'sone thing to just, you know,
have a vision of what thisperson looks like and does.
And it's a completely differentthing to actually do the work
and show up and do the work andmake mistakes along the way and
(22:30):
fail and then pick yourself backup and realize that, like, just
because you messed that updoesn't mean that it's over.
You just have to take every dayas it comes to once again, keep
working towards that version ofself.
Yeah, and you say something soimportant there, this idea of.
And I say that because one of mystudents recently did an
interview with me.
She interviewed me for a Englishproject she was doing in class.
(22:52):
And one of the questions sheasked me is like, if you're like
one thing people should knowabout being successful, what
would it be?
And I try to be very honest withmy students.
Like I had to explain that six.
To be successful and successitself is ugly.
It is not pretty.
And I think we're often sold theillusion that It's gonna be a
(23:13):
beautiful thing, and I'm gonnajust try and I'm gonna make all
this money and all these dreamsare gonna happen.
No, it's dirty.
It's ugly.
You have to grind it out.
You have to wake up everymorning and make difficult
choices.
I think even Colonel Sanderswere from KFC was rejected over
a hundred times.
Wow.
Before he ever sold his recipe.
Yeah.
I mean, most people would giveup out the, like the fifth note
or seventh.
No.
Maybe even the 20th.
No.
(23:34):
Gets a 99 nos and you still keepgoing.
Yeah, because it's ugly.
But what you don't see that youjust see all the KFCs everywhere
and you see Colonel Sanderseverywhere.
You're like, Oh, must have beeneasy.
But it's not.
And if you're choosing to besuccessful in something going
into anticipating, it's gonna bedifficult.
It's gonna make your life a loteasier.
Yeah, because if you think it'sgonna be all sunshine and
rainbows, it's not, I love thatquick connection to sobriety.
(23:57):
They're this illusion of whatsobriety looks like even like, I
think I try to be mindful assomeone that has a platform that
it.
Tries to one hand showcase allthe beauty and positivity in the
ways in which my life haschanged and transformed for the
better and sobriety.
Like, that is true.
But at the same time, the workthat went beneath the surface,
(24:19):
like the pain and the agony andlike the uncomfortability of
what that process look like inbecoming this version of self
was not pretty to your point.
Like, the success of me gettingsober was not a linear path.
It was very much like trial anderror.
I failed at certain points.
I've had many.
Day ones, I didn't nail it myfirst try.
And I think like, to your point,being transparent with other
(24:42):
people and forthcoming with yourstory, right?
Like, so with your student, forexample, like giving that very
like clear definition ofsuccess, being messy is
messaging to her that like, it'snot going to always look the way
you think, or the illusion ofwhat you think success looks
like, because I think so manypeople use that as almost like
(25:02):
there.
And then when they themselves gothrough the process and it
doesn't feel the way that it'ssupposed to look or what they
thought it would look like, theygive up.
Yeah.
And that's the part that like, Ithink less people talk about in
life and sobriety and whatever,however you want to define
success for yourself.
(25:22):
It's like, it is ugly.
It is messy.
And it doesn't always work.
The first time you try orderedone hunt.
I think Mike Tyson says thateveryone has a plan until they
get punched in the mouth.
Oh, that's get ready for thosepunches.
No, they're coming.
No matter what you're trying todo, what you're trying to
achieve, it's going to be uglyand get ready for that battle.
(25:42):
And you have to be persistentand you have to keep at it and
knowing why you're doing it andwhat you're after and checking
in with yourself every once in awhile to make sure I'm on track
to what I'm going to do is goingto be so valuable on that.
For me, it was the, I was justchecking it.
Like, what do I have to do todayto be the best version of me?
And then tomorrow I start again,what do I have to do today to be
the best version of me?
(26:03):
I like the emphasis of liketoday, like this, like in the
moment present, because I thinkwe can get overwhelmed.
If we try to think about all thelongterm things that we have to
do to get to this version ofself.
It's like, no, in this moment,like what's the.
Bite sized action stuff that youcan take that's in alignment to
becoming this person.
Yeah.
And you're redefining the bestyou every day.
(26:23):
And you understand that it's notgoing to be the same.
You know, even like here, likeI'm not the person today that I
was yesterday.
Right.
And tomorrow I'm not gonna bethe same person I am today.
I'm going to leave here withsomething, a conversation that
we had, whether it was beforethis or during this.
I'm going to be thinking aboutthat.
It's going to change my behaviorin some way or the way I word
something.
So we're constantly evolving.
(26:44):
Well, I don't know if everyone'sconstantly evolving.
I think that you are taking theApproach and you're having a
mindset that is open to changeand growth, but that's the
point.
I'm trying to think.
I think that is uncomfortablefor people and to it sucks.
It's a lot of people prefer thissometimes just stay.
(27:04):
How they know themselves to be,even if that person or version
of themselves is sick, becauseit's just like easier that way
you have to face the truth.
And that's where it getsdifficult, right?
Because you have to be honestwith yourself and others.
And that is where the challengeis, you know, this idea of,
like, you know, when people dothese 31 day challenges, I'm not
going to drink or in January orwhatever the case is, you know.
(27:26):
Then they go back to drinking inFebruary and they say, look, I
did it.
Yeah, I was able to do it.
I proved my point.
I proved to the world that I canstop drinking.
Well, that's an illusion.
Yeah, because you didn't stopdrinking.
You pause drinking and there's adistinction there and
distinctions matter.
Yeah.
So you didn't prove to anybodythat you could stop drinking.
You just.
Prove that you can hang for afew days and not drink.
(27:46):
And then you go right back toit.
The moment there's anopportunity that you feel good
about yourself, that you soldyourself on this illusion, then
you start pursuing it.
And that's where thinking like amagician comes in, right?
It's understanding the illusionsthat we're telling ourselves,
why we're telling ourselvesthese illusions and trying to
get to the actual truth of it.
So I think the honesty piecethat you mentioned is integral
and.
Just moving into, well, what wassome of your reasons for wanting
(28:11):
to quit drinking?
I feel like you tap into this,but I'd like to hear a little
bit more.
Like, do you feel like, cause itsounds like you weren't like a
problematic drinker per se, eventhough we can both agree that
alcohol is a problem.
Yeah.
And I've always had, like,everyone has those stupid
moments where like, I shouldn'thave done that.
I shouldn't have said that.
And thankfully nothing, no rockbottom.
Yeah.
So nothing's so crazy where likeI need an intervention or
(28:32):
something.
Thankfully especiallyconsidering I come from a family
of alcoholics, that's, you know,it could have been far worse.
I think also part of that was inthe back of my head too.
Like, you know, you really haveto be careful because, you know,
that's a continued blood,unfortunately the big changes
were, like I said, like, what isthe best version of me?
And I wasn't in shape.
We had covert times where I puton a ton of weight and I was
(28:53):
like, well, that's not who I am.
That's who I am in this moment,but that's not who I am in
general.
And I wanted to be healthy and Ihave some back issues that I
have to be worried about.
So losing weight is going to bebeneficial for that.
And if I really want to besuccessful, right, I have my own
drives, my own motivations.
I really want to like impact theworld and share ideas that are
valuable and contribute to theworld and leave some kind of
(29:15):
contribution to the world thatmakes this world a better place.
And to do that, you have toreally.
Be acting in a way that's in aline to those dreams.
And then I had to ask myself,well, what is the value of
alcohol for me?
What does value do for me?
What does alcohol, sorry, whatdoes alcohol do for me?
And really like nothing.
It actually hinders all thethings that I thought it was
doing.
So on one end, it's like, Oh, ittakes off the nerves comes my
(29:37):
anxiety.
But again, that's just anillusion, right?
Because is alcohol reallyremoving the anxiety or is.
that a band aid, not a solution?
Rhetorical questions.
Yeah, because yeah, because thenI got to actually, or I should
be doing is, well, why do I haveanxiety?
What is it that's holding meback?
What parts of my insecure aboutmyself?
And how do I address?
(29:57):
The real root causes likeanxiety, for example, without
the need to drink, because asyou mentioned, it's just a
scapegoat and then usually thething that you're using to, self
medicate or self sootheexasperates.
The condition even more.
Yeah.
So for example, if you're usingalcohol for anxiety, like, Oh, I
want it, it increases it, like,it's just like, Oh, if I don't
(30:20):
have it now, I feel like, Oh myGod, I can't function.
I can't socialize.
I can't be this extrovertedgreat version of myself without
it.
And it's like, no, what can yousupplement in place of that?
Or how can you tap into a friendof mine says that like, a lot of
the things that we think we'reusing alcohol for.
We actually have withinourselves, we just have to learn
(30:42):
how to unlock it.
So it's just a matter of likefree tuning or fine tuning, how
to actually be that version ofyourself.
So if you're using it to be thisextraverted person where you are
that person, it's just a matterof like extracting that version
of yourself without usingalcohol.
It's already in you, obviously.
So you're able to.
So one of the great things youcan do is find passions that
(31:05):
allow you to do that thing forme going on stage.
Is that right?
Like, yeah, I mean, withoutdrinking.
Yeah, like I just did aperformance for my school Friday
night and it was great.
And it felt so being so good upon stage and I get to be a
little crazy and energetic and Idon't get to do that all the
time.
But in those moments on stage,that's where I really get that
thrill because I have thesepassions that I can then yeah.
(31:27):
Take the things that I'm missingor looking for in my life and
find healthy ways to accessthose things and tap into those
things and to work on thosethings.
So one of those things that, youknow, like, let's say you do
have like, Oh, it helps me bemore social or whatever the case
is.
That's a great time to learnthings, to be more social.
Yeah, you can be a magician.
Okay.
Maybe you can't be a magician.
I mean, you could, you can joinmy YouTube channel.
(31:47):
I do teach some card tricksthere.
It's not a shameless plug.
This is actually arecommendation.
It's like a conversation.
Yeah.
I learned some basic cardtricks.
I teach self working cardtricks.
We call them, which is like, youjust got to remember the steps.
You don't have to have like, anydexterity or sleight of hand.
You can go to my YouTubechannel, learn a few of those
tricks, and then you can have aconversation with somebody and
open up a conversation and do soin a way that's healthy.
(32:08):
You don't have to rely onalcohol to do that.
Huh.
So, you know, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
And obviously it doesn't have tobe magic.
That's just my thing.
It could be your thing too.
You're welcome to join me.
Whatever the thing is for you.
I know people like dance andZUmba and all these kinds of
things are going to bebeneficial.
Joining a book club with sharedpassion.
You can get all the things thatalcohol gives you, but you just
have to look deep withinyourself and ask yourself, what
(32:29):
is it that you really need?
Right, and I think you know,that's it's not easy.
Like I said, it's not pretty butit has to happen, right?
Like you have to make that jUmpbecause if not, what's the
alternative?
Yeah.
Yeah, and then you are living ina world of illusion Right
alcohol is not reality.
No, that's the key.
I think so many people Thinkthat alcohol is the solution
(32:51):
without recognizing that it'sthe problem and till it becomes
a true problem and they'reforced to reckon with
themselves.
Yeah.
And I think most people have a,listen, you can either wait to
rock bottom and then you have todeal with yourself.
Yeah.
And it's going to be even uglierthan if you just say to
yourself, let me deal with itnow and do so because of my
choice.
(33:13):
And that's a scary place to be.
I get it.
I trust me.
I promise.
I promise you.
I know how difficult it is tolook at yourself and say, I'm a
jackass when I drank or damn,like, I really don't love myself
like that.
Like, I feel down that actuallymade me think of something like
some people think thatalcoholism is a progressive
disease and considering likeyour shared background that you
mentioned about your family.
(33:34):
Do you feel like?
That could have been a track ora pathway for you.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, yeah, a hundred percent.
Cause I've seen it with multiplefamily members and I've heard
stories of family members thatwas too young to remember
meeting.
And yeah, that's a, that's aneasy track to fall into.
And you know, what's thatsaying?
Like.
You can only be as successful asyour five closest friends,
(33:57):
right?
Like your immediate circle.
Yeah, your circle matters andyour family's your closest
circle in the early upbringingand they're going to have a
great influence over you.
And then, you know, seeing thenegative side effects of alcohol
and what that looks like andmaking my own mistakes with
drinking and just like stupidstuff you would say or do.
And you're like, that's notreally me.
(34:17):
And then all of that is justreally because you're afraid to
face yourself.
I was afraid to just accept whoI was as a person.
And I was afraid to like ownthis idea of being my best self.
Take ownership of yourself.
Like what?
Like to say that, like, I can'tbe fit and healthy because it's
easy to point to everythingaround you and say, Oh, I work
too hard.
(34:37):
I got work and I got this andall the excuses that we give
ourselves.
But imagine the power of justtaking ownership of your life
and saying, Oh yeah, I'm alittle chubby, but you know
whose fault that is.
That's mine.
No, that's the power.
That's, that is the power rightthere.
But yeah, like taking ownershipand responsibility is really
challenging for people and Ithink.
The part about removing alcohol,it's like, that's a big crutch
(35:00):
for people.
That's like, Oh, I'm toohungover going back to the whole
thing to work out today.
Like, well, what if you're nothungover?
Like, what if like you just arenow forced to understand that?
Like, Oh, I'm not prioritizingthis because I'm not
prioritizing this.
Like, you don't want to acceptthat side.
Right?
Right.
Me.
Oh, I could it's so easy to, howmany times, like, even on the
(35:21):
Monday, like work cultureperiod, it's like, Oh my God,
this weekend, like I didn't getanything done, I drank too much.
And it's just like an accepted,excuse.
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Listen, it's like it doesn'tnecessarily change Right, like
but the question becomes whichone benefits you Right.
Right.
Because if you're serving thesame purpose and now let's say
you learn magic tricks to dothis and before using alcohol,
(37:07):
it's still the same idea, you'restill using some kind of tool or
vehicle to get to whatever yourend destination is, but which
one's going to serve you.
Right.
And I recently was watching avideo.
I just came across a randomvideo on Instagram.
This guy was talking about thistwo colUmns in life.
This is the plus colUmn andthere's the negative colUmn.
There's the good and the bad andhe said, everything in your life
has a cost and everything youdo, every action you take has a
(37:29):
cost to it and it's either goingto be a plus towards whatever
your goal or dream is or it'sgoing to be a negative towards
no gray area and literally hegoes.
Nothing is neutral and that'sthe part that hit me and that's
the part that people don't wantto accept because it, going back
to your point, takesaccountability.
It takes personal responsibilityand it's a hard truth to face,
(37:52):
but sometimes people are notready to face that truth.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And alcohol is a great mask tohelp people distort whether or
not it belongs in this colUmn orthat colUmn.
Like they recognize that it'sbad, but there's all this
caveat.
But I was drunk, but I amhungover, but everyone was
drinking.
But what do you want out of yourlife?
(38:13):
And how is this action helpingyou get there?
Is it, or is it not?
And never in my life have I satdown with somebody like I do
some coaching for people in thebusinesses.
And I've never in my life satdown with somebody, I asked
them.
What is your dream life include?
What does that look like?
What does that feel like?
Never once did they say to me,can't wait to wake over, wake up
hungover again.
Like never once, like no one'sever put that on their list of
(38:35):
dreams or things to do.
No.
And then think to yourself,like, how is alcohol?
Impeding and getting in the wayof you reaching the goals and
dreams that you have now maynot.
And this is where this idea ofthis false idea of neutral comes
in where it's like, well, it'snot directly impacting it, but
it could definitely be slowingit down.
Thank you.
I'm going back to your reasonslike you want to optimize your
(38:56):
life.
Come on.
There's no way my brain isoperating at 100 percent
capacity when I'm drinking.
No, look at the science of it.
There's alcohol stays in yoursystem for days.
It takes a while to get out.
You're gonna have a hunger forit again, desire for it.
And it's like every bodyfunctions.
Your sleep.
Oh my God, my sleep.
Every major organ.
I had a hard time with sleep ingeneral.
And alcohol does not makesleeping any better.
(39:16):
Nope.
And I've even heard, I've seenthe illusion of people like, oh,
I'm gonna have a glass of wineso I can go to sleep.
Like, no, it's gonna ruin yoursleep.
Disrupts your cycle.
Yep.
Yeah.
So part of it, for me, it waslike, I wanna be healthy, I
wanna lose weight, I want tohave healthy sleep.
I wanna sharpen my mind and.
I asked myself, like, what isthe value of alcohol for me?
And to be honest, there was noreal value.
(39:37):
And anytime that I could see avalue to it, I had to just ask
myself, great.
Okay, so if the value is in theanxiety thing, what can I do to
find ways to do that in ahealthy way that is beneficial
to me that can then move me intothe plus colUmn?
And then, like, if you were,like, even if it were, like, oh,
anxiety, it helps me withanxiety.
Well, are you going to becodependent on alcohol for the
rest of your life?
Yeah.
To help you through anxiety?
(39:57):
Like, it's not a long termsolution.
Yeah.
I love that so much.
And so wrapping up here, how hasyour life improved since
becoming sober?
Oh, it's incredible.
I mean, I sleep way better.
I'm way healthier.
I think I'm down like 30, 40pounds already.
That's incredible.
Wow.
That did not happen for me.
I replaced it with sugaraddiction.
Oh, I mean, I'm fine now, butlike in the early days of my
(40:19):
sobriety.
Yeah, no it's ups and downs.
I think I definitely startedwith food initially.
And then I got really like, Itransitioned to systemizing.
One of my favorite books is EMyth Revisited.
E Myth Revisited.
Yeah, and it's about like almostlike a franchising model, like
how franchising is.
And it's about if you have asmall business, how to turn it
into like this franchise modelthat's systemized so it can
(40:39):
operate and sustain itself.
Autopilot.
The same thing is true for life.
The best thing I did recently, Iwas like, I want to make sure I
keep being healthy when Amazonbought 20 glass containers for
meal prep, and now I have these20 glass containers that are
ready to go at any given time,creating a meal prep plan, like
what are the meals that I'mgoing to prep all the time and
what do I have to always keep inmy freezer or fridge makes life
(41:00):
way easier.
I love that.
How can you systemize yoursobriety?
I'm just thinking.
What are some ways that I coulddo that?
That should be a book, by theway.
That should be your book.
Systemizing sobriety.
As if I haven't needed anotherthing to do.
Do you want to write a book,actually?
Yeah, good point.
Because I'm thinking, like,there's Often this idea of like
(41:20):
a sober toolkit, but the toolkitare like tools that you can
reach for and not necessarilysystems that you can reach for
or how you can systemize becauseeveryone's systems will look
different.
So I do like that.
And I'm curious, maybe we'llleave on a cliff note there,
like how people systemize theirsobriety.
A little cliffhanger foreverybody there.
Yeah.
And I just want to correct yourlanguage.
You are going to write a book.
(41:40):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Let's make sure.
I know that.
Whether I say I want to write abook, I want to write a book.
I'm going to write a book.
Yeah, so I appreciate you,Michael, for coming on and
sharing so much of that so manygems for us to take away and
think about what's next for you?
What are you working on?
My next thing is I'll be atSouth by Southwest EDU, if
(42:00):
anyone happens to be listening,and we'll be there in Austin,
Texas, doing a workshop.
Now, my big thing is I'mcombining magic and education
together and trying to reawakenwonder back in our schools
across the country.
I'm potentially, hopefully goingto be, I plan to at least.
You know, as long as nothinggets in the way of that, for
whatever reason plans to launcha nonprofit called Seek Wonder.
I'm sorry, you're going to.
(42:21):
I'm going to, see, correct me ifI was waiting for it, I set that
one up.
I'm going to launch Seek Wonderwhich will be SeekWonder.
org, which will be anorganization to bring magic into
schools.
And like I said, reawaken wonderback in our schools, cause we
need it.
You should coin that too,reawaken wonder.
I love that, reawaken wonder inour schools.
(42:41):
We need it.
That's so that's going tohappen.
And then other than that, Imean, I'm working on a book at
the moment.
So specifically for educatorsand same idea.
How do we get wonder back intoschools?
And that's kind of where mypathway is taking me.
It seems I'm just trusting theuniverse and following its
guidance.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
But yeah, I'm excited.
And and to be honest, likethere's, if I had to give any
(43:03):
feedback to anybody, like I'vealways been ambitious.
I've always.
Had big dreams and I'll tell youone thing, like, my progress has
sped up so much once I stoppeddrinking.
It made such a difference.
So, again, for the people in theback.
Yeah.
It's going to speed up yourprogress in achieving your
(43:25):
dreams you're going to besharper you'll be far more
motivated, and I promise you, ifyou have big dreams and big
goals, cutting out the alcoholis going to make a huge
difference.
The first few months are goingto suck, I'm going to be honest
with you.
Thank you.
Give it some time.
But once you get on the otherside of that.
Yes.
Then yeah then you'll see it's asnowball effect.
Greatest life hack.
Giving up alcohol.
Yeah.
I think that's the one commonthread.
(43:47):
Like you didn't have some of theaddiction issues that I had, but
like no matter where or whypeople stop drinking, where they
come from or like their purposefor quitting drinking, they all
have the same conclusion.
Their life is just so muchbetter without it.
Yeah.
I don't think people necessarilywho are still drinking know
that.
So I encourage everyone to likereally think.
(44:08):
Yeah.
Consider it for yourself.
Treat it like a socialexperiment.
Yeah.
What else?
What do you got to lose?
Right?
Exactly.
I mean, a better life.
Oh, how horrible I can namethose things.
Okay, Michael, I'll plug all ofyour wonderful things.
Just drop my resUme.
I'm just going to drop yourresUme in the show notes so
(44:28):
people can find you.
But yeah, follow Michael.
Magic Mike.
That's not his name.
You will not find me on anythingelse.
Don't Google Magic Mike.
Very different show.
Very different show.
At on Instagram.
Instagram, at Six Finger Magic.
That's spelled out.
S I X F I N G E R M A G I C.
Website?
Website.
MichaelMuldoon.
com.
M I C H A E L M U L D O N.
(44:50):
Oh, and YouTube youtube.
com slash magic six, spell out MA G S E S I X.
That's the teacher in me rightnow.
Making sure it's all correct.
Yeah, and go, yeah, go to myYouTube, learn some card tricks.
Like, listen, that's a great wayto meet people if you want to
get social.
And one way you could do that,like without alcohol is go learn
some really simple card tricksthat you can use.
And maybe we should do like ateam thing.
(45:11):
I was like, I feel like in NewYork, like don't go out to
random people and just be like,do you want to see a magic
trick?
But that's how I started mycareer.
So actually, yeah, let's do thatin the streets.
How do you think David Blainemade his whole career on street
magic?
Yeah.
I guess David Blaine StreetMagic started in New York City.
I would think, I don't know, I'mtainted.
I would think it was a scam.
Like, what are you going to doto me?
(45:32):
What do you need to see?
Okay.
It's tough though.
It's brutal, but that's how you,that's how you build some chops.
And you learn rejection.
I'm sure lots of no's to lead tosuccess.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
But okay.
So I take that back.
I'm not, what do I know?
Okay.
Go up to strangers and ask themif they want to see a magic
trick.
Why not?
It's a good way to start.
That's your way in, right?
So start with that.
And then find your thing, trustyour passions.
(45:53):
All right, you heard it here.
Thanks everybody.
It's been fun.
Stay magical.
Thank you for being here, andthank you for allowing me to
hold space in your day as youlisten to this podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
(46:14):
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
Bye bye.
Hello, and welcome to the SoberButterfly Podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest, Michael.
Hi, my name is Michael, sixMuldoon, and I'm very excited to
be here.
Michael Six Muldoon, also knownas Magic Mike.
No, I'm kidding.
only.
I call you Magic Mike.
Only you.
Wow.
But oh no, that sounds peopleare gonna have questions, you
guys.
You guys start calling him MagicMike.
(00:22):
So I'm not the only one anyway.
Michael, you are a magician,hence the nickname, Magic Mike.
you are also an educator.
You are a TEDx speaker.
You are a sober friend.
You are just a long laundry listof many things.
do you feel like if I accuratelydescribes you as a good intro?
It's a start.
It's just scratching thesurface.
(00:44):
So today I'm really excited tohave you on because first of
all, also just FYI.
You are the first male guestwe've had on the show.
How does that make you feel?
I feel honored.
I hope I do it justice.
That's going to be his greatestaccolade.
I think this is going to be thetop of the resUme now.
So I want to talk a little bitabout your experiences,
obviously in sobriety.
(01:04):
what it's like to be a magicianand educator.
Cause I feel like that is a lesscommon profession, but super
cool.
And yeah, let's get into it.
Let's start from the beginning.
Is that cool?
Yeah.
Let's go all the way back.
All the way back.
To the very start.
No, you're a true New Yorker.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat it was like growing up in
Queens.
Being born and raised in NewYork and how some of those
(01:26):
earliest formative memories haveshaped who you are today.
Yeah, for sure.
I grew up in Queens, New York.
So shout out to Queens, myQueens people listening in.
I grew up originally in Maspethand now I live in Ridgewood,
which apparently is the fourthcoolest place in the world.
According to time out in NewYork, I don't know where they
got that from.
Someone paid a lot of money forthat.
That was not supposed to gohard.
It's a great neighborhood, butfourth coolest in the world,
(01:48):
like in the world, who are theylying to?
Come on, but yeah, I grew up inQueens born and raised and so as
I mentioned earlier, I lived inMaspeth when I was a child.
Eventually we had to leavebecause my house burned down.
That's crazy.
When I was 11 years old.
And that's kind of whereeverything started.
And I think in many ways, itkind of led me to this very
(02:08):
moment.
And I say that because Well, letme tell you the story of the
house burning down.
Yeah, we need to know more aboutyour house.
I was in the basement when mybrother and his best friend was
sleeping over at the time and wehear beeping upstairs and I'm
like, Oh, let me go.
Well, they, I say, let me go.
But they told me to go.
Cause I was the youngest onethere.
So you go check the alarm.
So I go check on the beeping andmy father's in bed.
(02:30):
It was early morning.
And he's like, I'll just checkthe hall.
Let me know what's up.
I opened the door and you justsee.
Just smoke.
You can't see anything.
And the people upstairs arerunning up and down the stairs.
And I guess they were takingstuff and trying to get it out
of the house.
And I'll go back in and tell myfather and my hand, I can't see
him in the hallway becausethere's smoke everywhere.
And then he tells me to get outof the building.
So I go across the street andthen he tells everybody else
(02:50):
that was in the house and that'ssort of where the, this story
begins.
My mother wasn't in the house atthe time.
So my brother goes to get herand she tells me all the time
the story, like she was like,yeah, I saw him and I was like
so confused cause he came to myjob and then he wasn't wearing
shoes.
Wow.
Like he literally ran out thehouse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean we just took what youjust get out.
That's exactly what happened.
So she had to come back and wehad to deal with that and the
(03:11):
entire second floor was wipedout.
So it's a two family house.
So that the house itself wasdestroyed and we had to to get
out of there.
And Where did you go?
Like where, after your house isdestroyed, where do you live?
So, yeah.
At the same exact time, this is,I guess, I don't know the full
story to what exactly washappening, but my parents
actually separate at this time.
So my mother takes me and Threeboys, she has four boys, which
(03:34):
takes three of us.
And one of my brother brotherswas already out of the house at
the time.
She takes us to my aunt's houseand we end up sleeping in a
basement on cots until we cansave enough money to find a
place to live.
She slept on like this, likeoversized, like chair and had a
cot.
And sometimes my other brotherwould sleep on a pool table.
It's just what we had availableto sleep.
We did that for a few monthsuntil my mother could save the
(03:55):
money to find a place to live,which ended up bringing us to
Ridgewood, New York.
Okay.
So you have this, like.
Early formative memory of yourhouse literally burning down.
Yeah.
And you're dealt to live withthe wreckage of that.
So what was the aftermath?
So your parents separated,you're now living somewhere
completely different.
And I'm assUming you maybe hadto go.
(04:17):
Like, like look different foryou.
So what like and how did youcope with that change?
You lose your friends.
And I think that was the mostdifficult thing.
And I didn't cope with it verywell.
I say that because I ended upstruggling in school, which is
ironic, considering I'm ateacher.
So, I lost all my friends.
This is, you know, like pre cellphones and texting and social
media as being a thing.
(04:37):
So.
All the friends that I used toplay sports with or whatever the
case was, I don't see themanymore because it lives too far
and I had to continue going tomy middle school at this time by
taking a bus that I was notfamiliar with and just travel
back and forth.
It's all new things, not seeingmy father all the time.
All of this had a impact and itshowed because I have report
cards from middle school where Ihave 55, 55, 55.
(04:59):
Right.
I've gotten to like argUmentsand incidents with teachers.
Yeah.
Then eventually I was prettymuch up.
I don't know if I was kicked outor my mother transferred me
outta the school, but I had anincident with a teacher and then
I had to leave the school.
So whether that was my mother'schoice just to move to a closer
school, whether the schoolforced me out.
Right.
I don't fully recall, but itdidn't change'cause I ended up
going to middle, closer tomiddle school, which is nice
(05:20):
'cause it was closer.
But then again, now I don't knowanybody.
I don't have any friends there.
Right.
So it's, that's gonna be there.
And then eventually when I gointo high school, all of these
things are leading to me cuttingschool a lot.
I see.
So I wasn't.
a good student, which usuallyyou think, Oh, teacher, you must
have been a scholar.
That wasn't the case.
I actually have a letter from mymy high school that says Michael
(05:41):
is a danger to others.
Oh my gosh.
It's so crazy.
Cause like sitting next to you,this version of you today, like
I would never think that wasyour history or your past.
A lot of people tell me that.
But that's, you know, those arethe incidences that made me who
I am today, right?
You go through these experiencesand you start to get this
understanding.
(06:01):
And maybe it was all meant tobe.
And I think that's a crazy thingto say, but it led me, in many
ways, to Magic.
Because now that I wasn't seeingmy friend all the time, one day
he invites me to go to a Metsgame.
And he's like, I got tickets tothe Mets game, let's go watch
the game.
So we ended up taking the bus toit was, MetLife.
MetLife, and that's Jersey.
I don't know.
City Field.
(06:22):
Cityville.
Or Shea StadiUm.
Are you sure it's not calledMetLife?
MetLife, no.
Not even close.
But Shea.
And we go watch the Mets, andwe're coming back, and he's
like, yo, like, I know thisfunny store.
Let's go to this place.
So we hop off the bus onQueensborough Boulevard and
Grand Avenue is the location,which is ironic because I teach
very close to that now.
And there's a story between thetwo called Rogue Magic and Fun
(06:42):
Shop.
And we go in and he's like, Oh,he's trying to buy some
practical jokes and the guy atthe counter shows me a magic
trick and I'm absolutely blownaway and I was like, what in the
world?
And he was like, I was like, canyou tell me how it's done?
He's like, no, we don't giveaway our secrets.
And I was like, Oh, so like, howdo I learn?
How do I be a magician?
He's like, yeah.
5 I could tell you Which isironic, right?
We don't give away our secrets,but we'll sell them to you.
(07:04):
Yes Everything was a price.
Yeah, so Let them know so I endup Spending my last 10 there
cause I bought two magic tricks.
Okay.
I'm like, and then that's it.
I was bit by the bug.
I go home.
I show my mom these tricks.
She freaks out.
I'm like, I need more tricks.
I need to go back and buy more.
How much did you spend?
(07:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they ended up having a showthere every Saturday night.
So then I started taking the busthere to go see the shows on
Saturday night.
I'd pay to watch the show.
And then eventually after beingthere long enough, like Hey, you
want to like run the curtains?
Like you want to help outsomething you want to pay for
the show.
And Before I knew it, I wasended up working in the magic
shop and how does this all tieinto school?
Well, I was cutting school a lotin high school.
(07:47):
Now we're cut school to go workat the magic shop.
Oh, wow Yeah, and the magic shopwas really this interesting
place It was like a safe havenbecause it really took kids that
you wouldn't expect and put themall in one place there was Gang
members, drug dealers, kids whowere doing great in school all
in this one place comingtogether over this idea of
(08:08):
magic.
And it was fascinating to be apart of that.
Interesting cast of characters.
Yeah.
There's actually ironicallyBacardi did a video about the
store and some of us and it wascalled, You cannot use that
word.
I'm sorry.
I'm joking.
Oh my goodness.
Bacardi did not sponsor thisvideo.
They did not.
But there was, Bacardi did avideo you said?
Yeah.
So what they did is they picked25 of the most irrepressible
(08:30):
spirits in the world.
Irrepressible spirits?
Yeah.
Wow.
Was all kinds of stories.
It was a guy who built like arollercoaster in his backyard
for somebody.
I forget what it was like.
I can't help it.
I'm sorry, Michael.
But irrepressible spirits.
Funny because Bacardi repressespeople's spirit.
Sorry.
It's a great video.
You want to watch it.
It's a great video.
(08:50):
I'll plug it.
Like if you search like Bacardimagic, I think it's called a
magic man.
It's interesting and it givesyou a little insight into the
shop.
And in many ways it saved ourlives and magic in many ways
saved my life.
And it's just that kind of weirdsituation.
It really feels like you'rehaving a moment, pun intended,
(09:12):
when you're sipping on thelovely and refreshing moment.
Now what I love about moment isthat not only does it taste
delicious, I have my favoriteflavors, I love the blood
orange, I love the spicy mango,but it's also good for you,
which is exactly what I need inmy life right now as I'm in my
early teens.
30s.
It's infused with L theanine,which is great for mental
(09:35):
clarity.
It also is packed withashwagandha, which is great for
helping to fight stress.
It's made with all of thesenatural botanicals, which really
enhances your vitality.
It does not contain any addedsugar.
It's caffeine and of coursealcohol free and you can
purchase it in still orsparkling.
I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
(09:55):
take.
In the morning it's great for aboost to start the day versus in
the afternoon if you want tobeat that afternoon slump and
enhance your mental clarity orif you just need like a simple
pick me up like for me I love tohave a moment after the gym
versus going into the gymbecause it just really helps.
Reenergize me.
And then in the evening, if youwant to wind down after a long
(10:18):
busy day and enjoy a deliciousmocktail without the hangover,
then Moment is great for thattoo.
One of the best parts for mewith Moment is I feel like it's
a really conscientious brand.
They donate 1 percent of alltheir sales to mental health
nonprofits, so you can feel goodabout supporting greater causes
as well.
Head over to drinkmoment.
(10:39):
com and use my code TSB23 toreceive 12 percent off your very
first order.
Let's be moment bunnies.
We can both have momentstogether.
At the same time, my best friendwho was a former gang member was
presenting at a magicconference.
He was competing in acompetition and he was doing an
act where he talks about, like,how magic saved his life from
(11:01):
being in a gang.
And in the audience was a mannamed Tom Verner, who was the
founder of an organizationcalled Magicians Without
Borders.
Wow.
So he meets Devante, says, Iwork with these kids in El
Salvador.
We do gang prevention there.
You should come join and speakto these kids.
So maybe fate had its way thatday.
Bringing that all together and Ieventually would meet Tom and I
(11:22):
would start traveling withMagicians Without Borders and I
would go on to be the vicepresident of the organization.
And for those who don't know,Magicians Without Borders is a
non profit organization thatuses magic to entertain,
educate, and empower at riskyouth all over the world.
And it's a beautifulorganization.
Tom is an incredible hUman beingand they're doing incredible
work.
So I, yeah, I served two yearsas the vice president and it's
(11:44):
still something that I hold nearand dear to my heart.
And did a lot of trips to ElSalvador, some to Guatemala.
And that's my magic journey.
That's beautiful.
I kind of want to unpack some ofthat.
So as a magician, there's alwaysthis allure, right?
That draws people in, which isthe magic, which is the way that
you can.
(12:08):
Distorting truth in ways.
How has being a magician changedthe way that you view?
Everything or does it change theway that you do?
It does.
100%.
It does.
I've really shaped myperspective.
In many ways, like there, thereis a way of thinking like a
magician and everything I see, Ithink through the lens of a
magician and one of my, a friendof mine, Joshua J wrote a great
(12:31):
book called how magicians think,which is like, what's the, like,
what is the processing, likewhen we're doing tricks and what
tricks do we pick and that kindof thing.
But I think on a deeper level,there's also like this
processing that happens whenwe're performing or analyzing a
person and you have to know youraudience.
You have to be able to see theperson in front of you and pay
attention to where their eyesare looking and control their
attention and use all that toyour advantage in order to
(12:54):
create the illusion that you'retrying to create.
And magicians historically havelong been at the forefront of
technology and communication andusing all of these things to
create the best illusion thatthey can.
There's a lot of technologythat's coming out now, like,
stuff that magicians have beenusing for years.
Really?
Yeah.
I don't know if I can give awayall the little secrets, but one
(13:15):
of the things that magicians usefor a specific trick that I
can't say because I think You'llbe able to connect the dots.
They're now using a major leaguebaseball to communicate with the
pitchers.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's kind of cool.
So it's, so that perspective ofalways seeing where technology
is going, where the world isgoing and how we can use those
things to our advantage tocreate these illusions,
(13:36):
understanding hUman beings andthe way they think and how to
control attention, these are allmethods that we're using to
ultimately create a greatexperience for people.
But it also shapes my worldviewand how I see things when I go
into education, like, I don'tknow, I don't see it like a
normal teacher.
It's not just about being hereand teaching kids.
It's like, how do I make thisentertaining?
(13:57):
How do I create experiences?
How do I create moments ofwonder that they can remember
for the rest of their life?
Yeah.
So you're igniting passion.
By almost like through thisperformative aspect of tapping
into your work as a magician.
Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaking of performativemeasures, I think a lot of
performers feel the pressure toperform sometimes and then use
(14:20):
alcohol as a means to give theirbest performance.
How did you use alcohol or didyou use alcohol when you were?
Performing your magic tricks orbeing in that industry and
having an inside look in thatworld.
do you feel that people did usealcohol all the time?
It was, yeah, I mean, all thetime people were either having
(14:41):
drinks before their show orafter their show.
Like you have a drink before,you know, just to take the
nerves off before you go onstage or you're just hanging out
with other magicians and youhave a few drinks at dinner
before showtime.
And then you go do the show.
I don't know if that'snecessarily healthy.
I don't know.
I mean, it's.
Was it like normed?
Like, do you feel like it wasalmost like a societal
expectation?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Like a hundred percent.
(15:01):
Like it was it's, I can't eventhink of now that I think of
like magicians that I'm, youknow, friends with or however,
that I haven't spoken to a whilethat I see before they go on
show.
Like, Oh, having a drink beforeshow or drinking, you know,
backstage before the showstarts.
And I think that's very commonand and probably in most
performance performances I canimagine.
But I've definitely seen thatthroughout magic being in the
magic shop.
You know, you know, we're.
(15:22):
A bunch of kids that, you know,were hanging out on the streets
when we came together in thismagic shop.
I was introduced at an earlyage, like 16, 17 to alcohol,
thankfully around people whoweren't doing, you know, bad
things per se.
So I felt safe at the very leastkind of in a controlled
environment, I guess.
But yeah, I know it'severywhere, especially in
(15:43):
performances and the magicindustry.
Yeah, there's a, I can think ofsome great magicians too.
And I had some friends that werereally phenomenal magicians and,
you know, alcohol was justwinning and it was throwing them
off the game.
And I can only imagine how farthey could have gone if it
wasn't for alcohol beinginvolved somewhere in there.
And I can think of, you know,some major names in magic that
(16:04):
if any magicians were listening,they would be like, Oh yeah, I
know that guy.
And You know, it's sad becauseit probably could have been so
much more if it wasn't for thealcohol being involved.
Interesting.
And so you sort of transitioned.
What I don't want to say awayfrom the magic because you still
are a magician.
Yeah.
More full time into theclassroom and into education.
(16:25):
What inspired that transitionfor you?
Oh man, this is good.
So, as I mentioned, I wasn't agood student.
And one day I'm cutting schoolbecause that's what I did.
And I was just a normal day.
It was like probably like aTuesday or something.
And I'm working in a magic shop.
And we opened like early thatday because usually the store
opened at like one, but I thinkthat they opened at like 12 and
(16:46):
this guy comes in and he'sasking, you know, for some
recommendations on what trickshe should buy.
I show him a few tricks.
He picks the ones that he likes.
And at some point he turns to meand goes, Hey, like, what school
do you go to?
And I go, Oh, I got a GroverCleveland high school.
And he's like, no way I workedthere.
Oh no.
And he looks at me throughsquinted eyes and he goes, it's
a little early to be out ofschool, isn't it?
It's like noon on a weekday.
Like, but wait, why are youhere?
(17:06):
And then I looked at him and Iwas like, it's a little early to
be out of work.
Like, what are you, why are youhere?
And we ended up having a greatconversation.
I told him about how I hatescience class and he gave me the
same science teacher every year.
And she would drive me crazy.
And then he told me about how heloved magic.
And he actually made anagreement with me, and he said,
if you meet me each day on mylunch break, I'll teach you
science for half the period, andthen you can teach me magic for
(17:27):
the other half.
Wow.
And he used it, and it actuallygot me into school for a pretty
good amount of time before Istarted cutting again.
But you know, one of the thingsthat was Difficult about being
in school is that I wasn't like,I wasn't like a dUmb kid.
Like I was a smart enough kidthat I was in class.
I'd get my work done and then Isit there with my cards in my
hand and my teacher would yellat me, tell me how I'm never
(17:48):
going to amount to anything, howI'm wasting my time with those
deck of cards, put them away.
And like, just basicallycrushing my dreams that I had of
being a magician.
But here's this one guy whobelieved in me and not only
believed in my dreams of being amagician, like he embraced it
and said, Hey, come teach me.
And that's, you know, that, howmany times do you hear?
Teachers asking students toteach them something, you know?
(18:10):
Right.
That's rare.
Exactly.
So, you know, he gave me thisself-confidence, this belief in
me.
And so that's one of the aspectsto why I became a high school
teacher, because I wanted to behim.
I wanted to be the teacher thatcan see kids and understand
their passions and have thembelieve in themselves so that
they can reach those things too.
That's beautiful.
And on the other side of that islike with Tom Verner, when we
were doing Magicians WithoutBorders, we would raise money
(18:33):
and pay for kids to go toschool, like high school.
In El Salvador, you have to payto go to high school college and
all that kind of stuff.
And we're raising money to putthese kids through school.
I mean, I eventually, I did endup doing my associates in
business, but like I saw we werepaying for these kids to do
their schooling.
I was like, you know, maybe Ishould like finish and do more
schooling, you know, like be theexample for these kids.
So I ended up deciding to finishmy bachelor's degree.
(18:55):
And while that was happening.
My mother worked in a school andshe was like, Hey, we need a
school aid.
It's a light job.
It's only a few hours a day, butyou can do this since you're not
gonna be traveling, doing themagic anymore.
You can do this to make someincome while you're going to
school, which I ended up doing.
And other teachers in the schoolwas just like, Oh, these kids
love you.
You're like, they push me.
Like you should, you'll be agreat teacher.
You should really consider it,consider this.
(19:15):
And eventually I was like, youknow what?
Let me do this.
So like, I got pushed bysomebody else actually gave me a
plan.
There's a gentleman, Eric Checo,who I work with, great guy.
He was like, dude, like, I'lljust tell you what I did.
Like I did this.
And I ended up going to theteaching fellows, which is a
program.
And that's how I met you.
So, everything comes fullcircle.
Like life doesn't happen byaccident.
So, and that's how I went toteaching.
(19:36):
So I became a teaching fellow,studied political science and
then ended up becoming a specialeducation teacher.
Amazing.
At this point in life, what wasyour relationship like with
alcohol?
It wasn't anything like crazy.
Like it wasn't to the point thatI'm imagining you're like mid
twenties.
Yeah, well this is right.
So I mean, I got into teachingat like, I think I started
(19:58):
teaching at 30.
I was a school later, like 27,28.
Cause I was coming back later.
Yeah.
Definitely was, you know, liketraveling and doing magic.
There's a lot of alcoholinvolved.
You go to any magic convention,they have these major magic
conventions.
You'll find all the magicianshanging out at the bar.
And it's just so normalized toalways be drinking and working
on magic.
So for those, for the, duringthose times that I was hanging
out with magicians, there was alot of drinking going on.
(20:20):
And then when I moved intoeducation it wasn't so crazy.
I mean, I think just normalstuff but no norm, the normal is
not okay.
Right.
This idea of normal alcoholusage is not okay.
Right.
Because there's no such thing asnormal alcohol usage.
It's legit just poison, right?
If you're ingesting poison overand over again, it's never going
to be okay.
(20:41):
And.
The I guess the turning pointfor me It wasn't necessarily
like this major bad thinghappened Like I can definitely
have incidents of like when Iwas drinking like I was stupid.
I should have said that I shouldhave done that Like that regret
waking up hungover wasting yourdays headaches, but there was a
(21:01):
point in my life where I said tomyself I want to be the best
version of me, whatever capacitythat is.
And to do that, you have to actwith integrity to yourself.
So, I mean, you have to saysomething and then act in
accordance with that, make yourwords, match your actions for
you, not for other people.
And I think I was fortunate inthat sense that it really came
down to me, you know, I think,you know, other people.
(21:25):
And they try to change for otherpeople because they feel bad for
the way they acted or saidsomething to someone or did
things like that.
So they go down that route.
I just really wanted to be abetter version of myself.
And I didn't like where I waswhen I drank.
Not that I was even that bad.
It's just it just wasn't inalignment with the person that I
wanted to be.
And I think that's such animportant thing to ask yourself
is like, who are you?
And who do you want to be?
(21:46):
And what is the best version ofyou look like?
And then if you create thisblueprint of this is the best
Michael and These are the thingsthat show that this Michael is
being the best him right?
I can wake up each morning andact in accordance with that.
I think that's integral.
Like, this idea of wanting to bethe best version of yourself and
visualizing what that lookslike, I think is important.
(22:08):
Right?
But the added piece that isoften overlooked is what
actions.
Must this person do inaccordance to becoming that
version of self, because it'sone thing to just, you know,
have a vision of what thisperson looks like and does.
And it's a completely differentthing to actually do the work
and show up and do the work andmake mistakes along the way and
(22:30):
fail and then pick yourself backup and realize that, like, just
because you messed that updoesn't mean that it's over.
You just have to take every dayas it comes to once again, keep
working towards that version ofself.
Yeah, and you say something soimportant there, this idea of.
And I say that because one of mystudents recently did an
interview with me.
She interviewed me for a Englishproject she was doing in class.
(22:52):
And one of the questions sheasked me is like, if you're like
one thing people should knowabout being successful, what
would it be?
And I try to be very honest withmy students.
Like I had to explain that six.
To be successful and successitself is ugly.
It is not pretty.
And I think we're often sold theillusion that It's gonna be a
(23:13):
beautiful thing, and I'm gonnajust try and I'm gonna make all
this money and all these dreamsare gonna happen.
No, it's dirty.
It's ugly.
You have to grind it out.
You have to wake up everymorning and make difficult
choices.
I think even Colonel Sanderswere from KFC was rejected over
a hundred times.
Wow.
Before he ever sold his recipe.
Yeah.
I mean, most people would giveup out the, like the fifth note
or seventh.
No.
Maybe even the 20th.
No.
(23:34):
Gets a 99 nos and you still keepgoing.
Yeah, because it's ugly.
But what you don't see that youjust see all the KFCs everywhere
and you see Colonel Sanderseverywhere.
You're like, Oh, must have beeneasy.
But it's not.
And if you're choosing to besuccessful in something going
into anticipating, it's gonna bedifficult.
It's gonna make your life a loteasier.
Yeah, because if you think it'sgonna be all sunshine and
rainbows, it's not, I love thatquick connection to sobriety.
(23:57):
They're this illusion of whatsobriety looks like even like, I
think I try to be mindful assomeone that has a platform that
it.
Tries to one hand showcase allthe beauty and positivity in the
ways in which my life haschanged and transformed for the
better and sobriety.
Like, that is true.
But at the same time, the workthat went beneath the surface,
(24:19):
like the pain and the agony andlike the uncomfortability of
what that process look like inbecoming this version of self
was not pretty to your point.
Like, the success of me gettingsober was not a linear path.
It was very much like trial anderror.
I failed at certain points.
I've had many.
Day ones, I didn't nail it myfirst try.
And I think like, to your point,being transparent with other
(24:42):
people and forthcoming with yourstory, right?
Like, so with your student, forexample, like giving that very
like clear definition ofsuccess, being messy is
messaging to her that like, it'snot going to always look the way
you think, or the illusion ofwhat you think success looks
like, because I think so manypeople use that as almost like
(25:02):
there.
And then when they themselves gothrough the process and it
doesn't feel the way that it'ssupposed to look or what they
thought it would look like, theygive up.
Yeah.
And that's the part that like, Ithink less people talk about in
life and sobriety and whatever,however you want to define
success for yourself.
(25:22):
It's like, it is ugly.
It is messy.
And it doesn't always work.
The first time you try orderedone hunt.
I think Mike Tyson says thateveryone has a plan until they
get punched in the mouth.
Oh, that's get ready for thosepunches.
No, they're coming.
No matter what you're trying todo, what you're trying to
achieve, it's going to be uglyand get ready for that battle.
(25:42):
And you have to be persistentand you have to keep at it and
knowing why you're doing it andwhat you're after and checking
in with yourself every once in awhile to make sure I'm on track
to what I'm going to do is goingto be so valuable on that.
For me, it was the, I was justchecking it.
Like, what do I have to do todayto be the best version of me?
And then tomorrow I start again,what do I have to do today to be
the best version of me?
(26:03):
I like the emphasis of liketoday, like this, like in the
moment present, because I thinkwe can get overwhelmed.
If we try to think about all thelongterm things that we have to
do to get to this version ofself.
It's like, no, in this moment,like what's the.
Bite sized action stuff that youcan take that's in alignment to
becoming this person.
Yeah.
And you're redefining the bestyou every day.
(26:23):
And you understand that it's notgoing to be the same.
You know, even like here, likeI'm not the person today that I
was yesterday.
Right.
And tomorrow I'm not gonna bethe same person I am today.
I'm going to leave here withsomething, a conversation that
we had, whether it was beforethis or during this.
I'm going to be thinking aboutthat.
It's going to change my behaviorin some way or the way I word
something.
So we're constantly evolving.
(26:44):
Well, I don't know if everyone'sconstantly evolving.
I think that you are taking theApproach and you're having a
mindset that is open to changeand growth, but that's the
point.
I'm trying to think.
I think that is uncomfortablefor people and to it sucks.
It's a lot of people prefer thissometimes just stay.
(27:04):
How they know themselves to be,even if that person or version
of themselves is sick, becauseit's just like easier that way
you have to face the truth.
And that's where it getsdifficult, right?
Because you have to be honestwith yourself and others.
And that is where the challengeis, you know, this idea of,
like, you know, when people dothese 31 day challenges, I'm not
going to drink or in January orwhatever the case is, you know.
(27:26):
Then they go back to drinking inFebruary and they say, look, I
did it.
Yeah, I was able to do it.
I proved my point.
I proved to the world that I canstop drinking.
Well, that's an illusion.
Yeah, because you didn't stopdrinking.
You pause drinking and there's adistinction there and
distinctions matter.
Yeah.
So you didn't prove to anybodythat you could stop drinking.
You just.
Prove that you can hang for afew days and not drink.
(27:46):
And then you go right back toit.
The moment there's anopportunity that you feel good
about yourself, that you soldyourself on this illusion, then
you start pursuing it.
And that's where thinking like amagician comes in, right?
It's understanding the illusionsthat we're telling ourselves,
why we're telling ourselvesthese illusions and trying to
get to the actual truth of it.
So I think the honesty piecethat you mentioned is integral
and.
Just moving into, well, what wassome of your reasons for wanting
(28:11):
to quit drinking?
I feel like you tap into this,but I'd like to hear a little
bit more.
Like, do you feel like, cause itsounds like you weren't like a
problematic drinker per se, eventhough we can both agree that
alcohol is a problem.
Yeah.
And I've always had, like,everyone has those stupid
moments where like, I shouldn'thave done that.
I shouldn't have said that.
And thankfully nothing, no rockbottom.
Yeah.
So nothing's so crazy where likeI need an intervention or
(28:32):
something.
Thankfully especiallyconsidering I come from a family
of alcoholics, that's, you know,it could have been far worse.
I think also part of that was inthe back of my head too.
Like, you know, you really haveto be careful because, you know,
that's a continued blood,unfortunately the big changes
were, like I said, like, what isthe best version of me?
And I wasn't in shape.
We had covert times where I puton a ton of weight and I was
(28:53):
like, well, that's not who I am.
That's who I am in this moment,but that's not who I am in
general.
And I wanted to be healthy and Ihave some back issues that I
have to be worried about.
So losing weight is going to bebeneficial for that.
And if I really want to besuccessful, right, I have my own
drives, my own motivations.
I really want to like impact theworld and share ideas that are
valuable and contribute to theworld and leave some kind of
(29:15):
contribution to the world thatmakes this world a better place.
And to do that, you have toreally.
Be acting in a way that's in aline to those dreams.
And then I had to ask myself,well, what is the value of
alcohol for me?
What does value do for me?
What does alcohol, sorry, whatdoes alcohol do for me?
And really like nothing.
It actually hinders all thethings that I thought it was
doing.
So on one end, it's like, Oh, ittakes off the nerves comes my
(29:37):
anxiety.
But again, that's just anillusion, right?
Because is alcohol reallyremoving the anxiety or is.
that a band aid, not a solution?
Rhetorical questions.
Yeah, because yeah, because thenI got to actually, or I should
be doing is, well, why do I haveanxiety?
What is it that's holding meback?
What parts of my insecure aboutmyself?
And how do I address?
(29:57):
The real root causes likeanxiety, for example, without
the need to drink, because asyou mentioned, it's just a
scapegoat and then usually thething that you're using to, self
medicate or self sootheexasperates.
The condition even more.
Yeah.
So for example, if you're usingalcohol for anxiety, like, Oh, I
want it, it increases it, like,it's just like, Oh, if I don't
(30:20):
have it now, I feel like, Oh myGod, I can't function.
I can't socialize.
I can't be this extrovertedgreat version of myself without
it.
And it's like, no, what can yousupplement in place of that?
Or how can you tap into a friendof mine says that like, a lot of
the things that we think we'reusing alcohol for.
We actually have withinourselves, we just have to learn
(30:42):
how to unlock it.
So it's just a matter of likefree tuning or fine tuning, how
to actually be that version ofyourself.
So if you're using it to be thisextraverted person where you are
that person, it's just a matterof like extracting that version
of yourself without usingalcohol.
It's already in you, obviously.
So you're able to.
So one of the great things youcan do is find passions that
(31:05):
allow you to do that thing forme going on stage.
Is that right?
Like, yeah, I mean, withoutdrinking.
Yeah, like I just did aperformance for my school Friday
night and it was great.
And it felt so being so good upon stage and I get to be a
little crazy and energetic and Idon't get to do that all the
time.
But in those moments on stage,that's where I really get that
thrill because I have thesepassions that I can then yeah.
(31:27):
Take the things that I'm missingor looking for in my life and
find healthy ways to accessthose things and tap into those
things and to work on thosethings.
So one of those things that, youknow, like, let's say you do
have like, Oh, it helps me bemore social or whatever the case
is.
That's a great time to learnthings, to be more social.
Yeah, you can be a magician.
Okay.
Maybe you can't be a magician.
I mean, you could, you can joinmy YouTube channel.
(31:47):
I do teach some card tricksthere.
It's not a shameless plug.
This is actually arecommendation.
It's like a conversation.
Yeah.
I learned some basic cardtricks.
I teach self working cardtricks.
We call them, which is like, youjust got to remember the steps.
You don't have to have like, anydexterity or sleight of hand.
You can go to my YouTubechannel, learn a few of those
tricks, and then you can have aconversation with somebody and
open up a conversation and do soin a way that's healthy.
(32:08):
You don't have to rely onalcohol to do that.
Huh.
So, you know, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
And obviously it doesn't have tobe magic.
That's just my thing.
It could be your thing too.
You're welcome to join me.
Whatever the thing is for you.
I know people like dance andZUmba and all these kinds of
things are going to bebeneficial.
Joining a book club with sharedpassion.
You can get all the things thatalcohol gives you, but you just
have to look deep withinyourself and ask yourself, what
(32:29):
is it that you really need?
Right, and I think you know,that's it's not easy.
Like I said, it's not pretty butit has to happen, right?
Like you have to make that jUmpbecause if not, what's the
alternative?
Yeah.
Yeah, and then you are living ina world of illusion Right
alcohol is not reality.
No, that's the key.
I think so many people Thinkthat alcohol is the solution
(32:51):
without recognizing that it'sthe problem and till it becomes
a true problem and they'reforced to reckon with
themselves.
Yeah.
And I think most people have a,listen, you can either wait to
rock bottom and then you have todeal with yourself.
Yeah.
And it's going to be even uglierthan if you just say to
yourself, let me deal with itnow and do so because of my
choice.
(33:13):
And that's a scary place to be.
I get it.
I trust me.
I promise.
I promise you.
I know how difficult it is tolook at yourself and say, I'm a
jackass when I drank or damn,like, I really don't love myself
like that.
Like, I feel down that actuallymade me think of something like
some people think thatalcoholism is a progressive
disease and considering likeyour shared background that you
mentioned about your family.
(33:34):
Do you feel like?
That could have been a track ora pathway for you.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, yeah, a hundred percent.
Cause I've seen it with multiplefamily members and I've heard
stories of family members thatwas too young to remember
meeting.
And yeah, that's a, that's aneasy track to fall into.
And you know, what's thatsaying?
Like.
You can only be as successful asyour five closest friends,
(33:57):
right?
Like your immediate circle.
Yeah, your circle matters andyour family's your closest
circle in the early upbringingand they're going to have a
great influence over you.
And then, you know, seeing thenegative side effects of alcohol
and what that looks like andmaking my own mistakes with
drinking and just like stupidstuff you would say or do.
And you're like, that's notreally me.
(34:17):
And then all of that is justreally because you're afraid to
face yourself.
I was afraid to just accept whoI was as a person.
And I was afraid to like ownthis idea of being my best self.
Take ownership of yourself.
Like what?
Like to say that, like, I can'tbe fit and healthy because it's
easy to point to everythingaround you and say, Oh, I work
too hard.
(34:37):
I got work and I got this andall the excuses that we give
ourselves.
But imagine the power of justtaking ownership of your life
and saying, Oh yeah, I'm alittle chubby, but you know
whose fault that is.
That's mine.
No, that's the power.
That's, that is the power rightthere.
But yeah, like taking ownershipand responsibility is really
challenging for people and Ithink.
The part about removing alcohol,it's like, that's a big crutch
(35:00):
for people.
That's like, Oh, I'm toohungover going back to the whole
thing to work out today.
Like, well, what if you're nothungover?
Like, what if like you just arenow forced to understand that?
Like, Oh, I'm not prioritizingthis because I'm not
prioritizing this.
Like, you don't want to acceptthat side.
Right?
Right.
Me.
Oh, I could it's so easy to, howmany times, like, even on the
(35:21):
Monday, like work cultureperiod, it's like, Oh my God,
this weekend, like I didn't getanything done, I drank too much.
And it's just like an accepted,excuse.
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Listen, it's like it doesn'tnecessarily change Right, like
but the question becomes whichone benefits you Right.
Right.
Because if you're serving thesame purpose and now let's say
you learn magic tricks to dothis and before using alcohol,
(37:07):
it's still the same idea, you'restill using some kind of tool or
vehicle to get to whatever yourend destination is, but which
one's going to serve you.
Right.
And I recently was watching avideo.
I just came across a randomvideo on Instagram.
This guy was talking about thistwo colUmns in life.
This is the plus colUmn andthere's the negative colUmn.
There's the good and the bad andhe said, everything in your life
has a cost and everything youdo, every action you take has a
(37:29):
cost to it and it's either goingto be a plus towards whatever
your goal or dream is or it'sgoing to be a negative towards
no gray area and literally hegoes.
Nothing is neutral and that'sthe part that hit me and that's
the part that people don't wantto accept because it, going back
to your point, takesaccountability.
It takes personal responsibilityand it's a hard truth to face,
(37:52):
but sometimes people are notready to face that truth.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And alcohol is a great mask tohelp people distort whether or
not it belongs in this colUmn orthat colUmn.
Like they recognize that it'sbad, but there's all this
caveat.
But I was drunk, but I amhungover, but everyone was
drinking.
But what do you want out of yourlife?
(38:13):
And how is this action helpingyou get there?
Is it, or is it not?
And never in my life have I satdown with somebody like I do
some coaching for people in thebusinesses.
And I've never in my life satdown with somebody, I asked
them.
What is your dream life include?
What does that look like?
What does that feel like?
Never once did they say to me,can't wait to wake over, wake up
hungover again.
Like never once, like no one'sever put that on their list of
(38:35):
dreams or things to do.
No.
And then think to yourself,like, how is alcohol?
Impeding and getting in the wayof you reaching the goals and
dreams that you have now maynot.
And this is where this idea ofthis false idea of neutral comes
in where it's like, well, it'snot directly impacting it, but
it could definitely be slowingit down.
Thank you.
I'm going back to your reasonslike you want to optimize your
(38:56):
life.
Come on.
There's no way my brain isoperating at 100 percent
capacity when I'm drinking.
No, look at the science of it.
There's alcohol stays in yoursystem for days.
It takes a while to get out.
You're gonna have a hunger forit again, desire for it.
And it's like every bodyfunctions.
Your sleep.
Oh my God, my sleep.
Every major organ.
I had a hard time with sleep ingeneral.
And alcohol does not makesleeping any better.
(39:16):
Nope.
And I've even heard, I've seenthe illusion of people like, oh,
I'm gonna have a glass of wineso I can go to sleep.
Like, no, it's gonna ruin yoursleep.
Disrupts your cycle.
Yep.
Yeah.
So part of it, for me, it waslike, I wanna be healthy, I
wanna lose weight, I want tohave healthy sleep.
I wanna sharpen my mind and.
I asked myself, like, what isthe value of alcohol for me?
And to be honest, there was noreal value.
(39:37):
And anytime that I could see avalue to it, I had to just ask
myself, great.
Okay, so if the value is in theanxiety thing, what can I do to
find ways to do that in ahealthy way that is beneficial
to me that can then move me intothe plus colUmn?
And then, like, if you were,like, even if it were, like, oh,
anxiety, it helps me withanxiety.
Well, are you going to becodependent on alcohol for the
rest of your life?
Yeah.
To help you through anxiety?
(39:57):
Like, it's not a long termsolution.
Yeah.
I love that so much.
And so wrapping up here, how hasyour life improved since
becoming sober?
Oh, it's incredible.
I mean, I sleep way better.
I'm way healthier.
I think I'm down like 30, 40pounds already.
That's incredible.
Wow.
That did not happen for me.
I replaced it with sugaraddiction.
Oh, I mean, I'm fine now, butlike in the early days of my
(40:19):
sobriety.
Yeah, no it's ups and downs.
I think I definitely startedwith food initially.
And then I got really like, Itransitioned to systemizing.
One of my favorite books is EMyth Revisited.
E Myth Revisited.
Yeah, and it's about like almostlike a franchising model, like
how franchising is.
And it's about if you have asmall business, how to turn it
into like this franchise modelthat's systemized so it can
(40:39):
operate and sustain itself.
Autopilot.
The same thing is true for life.
The best thing I did recently, Iwas like, I want to make sure I
keep being healthy when Amazonbought 20 glass containers for
meal prep, and now I have these20 glass containers that are
ready to go at any given time,creating a meal prep plan, like
what are the meals that I'mgoing to prep all the time and
what do I have to always keep inmy freezer or fridge makes life
(41:00):
way easier.
I love that.
How can you systemize yoursobriety?
I'm just thinking.
What are some ways that I coulddo that?
That should be a book, by theway.
That should be your book.
Systemizing sobriety.
As if I haven't needed anotherthing to do.
Do you want to write a book,actually?
Yeah, good point.
Because I'm thinking, like,there's Often this idea of like
(41:20):
a sober toolkit, but the toolkitare like tools that you can
reach for and not necessarilysystems that you can reach for
or how you can systemize becauseeveryone's systems will look
different.
So I do like that.
And I'm curious, maybe we'llleave on a cliff note there,
like how people systemize theirsobriety.
A little cliffhanger foreverybody there.
Yeah.
And I just want to correct yourlanguage.
You are going to write a book.
(41:40):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Let's make sure.
I know that.
Whether I say I want to write abook, I want to write a book.
I'm going to write a book.
Yeah, so I appreciate you,Michael, for coming on and
sharing so much of that so manygems for us to take away and
think about what's next for you?
What are you working on?
My next thing is I'll be atSouth by Southwest EDU, if
(42:00):
anyone happens to be listening,and we'll be there in Austin,
Texas, doing a workshop.
Now, my big thing is I'mcombining magic and education
together and trying to reawakenwonder back in our schools
across the country.
I'm potentially, hopefully goingto be, I plan to at least.
You know, as long as nothinggets in the way of that, for
whatever reason plans to launcha nonprofit called Seek Wonder.
I'm sorry, you're going to.
(42:21):
I'm going to, see, correct me ifI was waiting for it, I set that
one up.
I'm going to launch Seek Wonderwhich will be SeekWonder.
org, which will be anorganization to bring magic into
schools.
And like I said, reawaken wonderback in our schools, cause we
need it.
You should coin that too,reawaken wonder.
I love that, reawaken wonder inour schools.
(42:41):
We need it.
That's so that's going tohappen.
And then other than that, Imean, I'm working on a book at
the moment.
So specifically for educatorsand same idea.
How do we get wonder back intoschools?
And that's kind of where mypathway is taking me.
It seems I'm just trusting theuniverse and following its
guidance.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
But yeah, I'm excited.
And and to be honest, likethere's, if I had to give any
(43:03):
feedback to anybody, like I'vealways been ambitious.
I've always.
Had big dreams and I'll tell youone thing, like, my progress has
sped up so much once I stoppeddrinking.
It made such a difference.
So, again, for the people in theback.
Yeah.
It's going to speed up yourprogress in achieving your
(43:25):
dreams you're going to besharper you'll be far more
motivated, and I promise you, ifyou have big dreams and big
goals, cutting out the alcoholis going to make a huge
difference.
The first few months are goingto suck, I'm going to be honest
with you.
Thank you.
Give it some time.
But once you get on the otherside of that.
Yes.
Then yeah then you'll see it's asnowball effect.
Greatest life hack.
Giving up alcohol.
Yeah.
I think that's the one commonthread.
(43:47):
Like you didn't have some of theaddiction issues that I had, but
like no matter where or whypeople stop drinking, where they
come from or like their purposefor quitting drinking, they all
have the same conclusion.
Their life is just so muchbetter without it.
Yeah.
I don't think people necessarilywho are still drinking know
that.
So I encourage everyone to likereally think.
(44:08):
Yeah.
Consider it for yourself.
Treat it like a socialexperiment.
Yeah.
What else?
What do you got to lose?
Right?
Exactly.
I mean, a better life.
Oh, how horrible I can namethose things.
Okay, Michael, I'll plug all ofyour wonderful things.
Just drop my resUme.
I'm just going to drop yourresUme in the show notes so
(44:28):
people can find you.
But yeah, follow Michael.
Magic Mike.
That's not his name.
You will not find me on anythingelse.
Don't Google Magic Mike.
Very different show.
Very different show.
At on Instagram.
Instagram, at Six Finger Magic.
That's spelled out.
S I X F I N G E R M A G I C.
Website?
Website.
MichaelMuldoon.
com.
M I C H A E L M U L D O N.
(44:50):
Oh, and YouTube youtube.
com slash magic six, spell out MA G S E S I X.
That's the teacher in me rightnow.
Making sure it's all correct.
Yeah, and go, yeah, go to myYouTube, learn some card tricks.
Like, listen, that's a great wayto meet people if you want to
get social.
And one way you could do that,like without alcohol is go learn
some really simple card tricksthat you can use.
And maybe we should do like ateam thing.
(45:11):
I was like, I feel like in NewYork, like don't go out to
random people and just be like,do you want to see a magic
trick?
But that's how I started mycareer.
So actually, yeah, let's do thatin the streets.
How do you think David Blainemade his whole career on street
magic?
Yeah.
I guess David Blaine StreetMagic started in New York City.
I would think, I don't know, I'mtainted.
I would think it was a scam.
Like, what are you going to doto me?
(45:32):
What do you need to see?
Okay.
It's tough though.
It's brutal, but that's how you,that's how you build some chops.
And you learn rejection.
I'm sure lots of no's to lead tosuccess.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
But okay.
So I take that back.
I'm not, what do I know?
Okay.
Go up to strangers and ask themif they want to see a magic
trick.
Why not?
It's a good way to start.
That's your way in, right?
So start with that.
And then find your thing, trustyour passions.
(45:53):
All right, you heard it here.
Thanks everybody.
It's been fun.
Stay magical.
Thank you for being here, andthank you for allowing me to
hold space in your day as youlisten to this podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please, please do me a favor and
one, make sure you're followingthe show so that you can stay up
to date with everything elsethat's happening.
(46:14):
And two.
Please, please leave a review asit helps more people find the
show.
I would appreciate even more ifit's a five star review, but do
what's right for you.
Do what you think I deserve,thank you so much, and I'll see
you next week.
Bye bye.
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