January 31, 2024 • 32 mins
"We have what you want" is a common expression heard in AA. But what exactly do we (sober people) have that you (others/non-sober people) want? In today's episode, Nadine delves into a nuanced topic – the experience of others being jealous of your sobriety, exploring the implications and ways to navigate this unspoken challenge.
We also get into:
-The three things people are most jealous of and why sober people have these things
-Jealousy versus envy, defining how to distinguish one of the other
-3 red flags to look for to determine if someone is jealous of your sobriety
-How to pivot and address jealousy in sobriety
Resources mentioned in the episode:
Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience by Brené Brown (Amazon)
or listen with a free 30-day trial with Audible
To connect with Nadine:
- Follow on IG: @the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast
- Follow on TikTok @the.soberbutterfly
- Subscribe to YouTube channel
- Subscribe to our monthly newsletter, https://thesoberbutterfly.com/
Resources from the Episode:
FREEBIE Beginner’s Guide to Dry January (e-book)
FREEBIE Guide to Quitting Alcohol - 30 Day Transformation (course)
Partners:
Use Code TSB23 for 25% off your order
Free 30 Day Trial
https://www.audibletrial.com/tsb24
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services refereed to in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to theSober Butterfly Your sober
resource for Inspo Stories,lifestyle, and Travel.
I am Nadine Mulvina and today isa solo episode that has been on
my mind for quite some time.
I feel.
I feel vulnerable.
I think about sharing on thistopic of jealousy, as you may
(00:25):
have been able to tell by thetitle.
And I think I'm nervous,anxious, a little vulnerable for
a number of reasons.
One being I don't wanna beperceived as self-absorbed or
conceited.
oh, everyone is just so jealousof me and my sobriety.
no, that's definitely not what Iwanna put out there.
(00:48):
I also feel a little vulnerablebecause I'll be sharing some
personal stories and anecdotesin connection to this topic of
jealousy today.
And then finally, it's just nota topic that I hear too much
about in the sobriety orrecovery spaces.
I think people allude to thisidea of losing friends in
(01:08):
sobriety.
This is a common expression I'veheard, but I think that's more
aligned to maybe lifestyleshifts or a lack of support as
opposed to outright jealousy oreven subtle jealousy.
So I think it's actually reallyimportant to explore why some
people may be jealous of yoursobriety so that we can
(01:32):
recognize some of those redflags and pivot as needed.
And if you're not sober, this isalso helpful because you may be
able to identify why somepeople's jealousy of you
intending to get sober mayactually prevent you from
getting sober.
Interestingly enough, one of theideas that sparked this episode
(01:54):
was actually an expression thatis commonly used in AA meetings,
and I kept hearing in meetingswe have what they want and they
never really understood thedepth of this expression.
What is it that we have thatthey want?
So I'm gonna break down what itis that we have sober people
(02:14):
that they want or may want.
In general, people are jealousof three things in life.
Now sober people also happen tohave these three things.
So the number one thing is yourhappiness, your joy.
People who are perpetuallyhappy, people who always seem to
(02:37):
bounce back despite failures ordepressing moments.
When you're no longer drinking adepressing substance, shocking,
it shows you just glowdifferently.
You exude this level ofhappiness that other people may
want to also have.
Which brings me to the secondthing that people are jealous
(02:59):
of.
Your confidence, your power,your personal power.
Most people do not haveconfidence in themselves, hence
they feel the need to drink tomask that sense of inadequacy or
those insecurities.
Especially in social settings.
That's why I love to commonlyrefer to alcohol as a social
(03:23):
lubricant.
They think it unlocks a part ofthemself that they can't access
themself, so they drink tobecome, or at least pretend to.
Exude this air of confidencethat they don't really feel that
they have.
So that's the second thing.
Your confidence, your personalpower.
And then lastly, people arejealous of your achievements,
(03:44):
your success.
Yes.
Even your bestest closestfriends can have jealousy for
your achievements in life.
And later on in the episode I'mgoing to explore ways in which
you can tell if people arejealous of your achievements,
these sober milestones thatyou're hitting, or just, you
know, we know this when we getsober.
We optimize our lives in so manyways.
(04:06):
So you may see success in areasof your life that you never
would've been able to accomplishhad you still been drinking and.
Please believe me.
People are paying attention tothat.
People are noticing that.
And so that can sometimes createthis sense of jealousy.
So as mentioned, three thingspeople are typically jealous of
(04:30):
in life.
This is not just for sobriety,but all sober people, in my
opinion, have.
Demonstrated successes in theseareas or gains in these areas.
So that's your happiness, yourcompetence in your achievements.
I'm gonna break this down somemore later, but this is just a
quick rundown note that I didn'teven mention money, by the way.
And that's because even peoplewith money, wealthy people, rich
(04:52):
people can be jealous of you forthose aforementioned points.
So before we get into all theways people may be jealous of
you and your sobriety, I wannatake a moment to define jealousy
in contrast to envy.
I too make the mistake ofconflating the two.
So for example, like I maycomment on Insta.
(05:13):
I'm so jealous when I see myfriend living her best life in
the south of France, right?
That's an example of me makingthe mistake of saying, I'm
jealous because according tosocial psychologist, Brene
Brown, that's my girl, Bebe, oh,she's commonly referred to in my
heart.
But Bebe would.
Actually define this idea of youbeing jealous of your friend's
(05:35):
vacation as envy.
In her book, Brene Brown's book,Atlas of the Heart, which the
best way I can describe thatbook is it's like a dictionary
of emotions and she reallybreaks down like the
explanations of said emotionsand how they can not just impact
our lives, how we feel inconnection to other people and
(05:57):
how we therefore behave andinteract with other people.
Brene Brittany defines envy aswhen we want something that
another person has.
She then goes on, to say envyinvolves two people typically.
So say for example, your bestfriend, she gets engaged to the
man of her dreams and you can'teven find a guy on Hinge to ask
(06:22):
you out on a date properly.
Hinge for people who may notknow it's a dating app anyway.
Maybe you see some likebeautiful influencer posting
beautiful travel pics all overthe world, while you can barely
afford to get a babysitter towatch your kids for, I don't
know, like a fun girls nightout.
These people have something thatyou want, but the distinction
(06:44):
here is that just because theyhave what you want does not mean
that they're actually takingthose things away from you.
So being able to properlyidentify that you are envious,
not jealous, but envious of yourfriend, getting engaged, that
can help you do a number ofthings, for example, can make
you not become bitter towardsher.
(07:06):
She, didn't get engaged to hurtyour feelings.
And two.
You can start to realize howimportant the goal of settling
down maybe for you or datingseriously.
And then finally, I think thisis crucial.
You can then start to reallocateyour energy toward that goal.
Simply put, envy can often servethe purpose of making our life
(07:31):
goals clearer.
So going back to that phrase inaa, we have what you want.
It's actually meant to be amessage of hope.
Motivation, encouragement toanyone that's struggling with
alcohol addiction or drinkingexcessively.
So it's like you're challengingenvy in a good way.
(07:55):
And the primary implication isthat members of AA have found a
way to achieve and maintainsobriety, which is something
that you know, you may beseeking.
So as mentioned, envy is more ofa two person emotion and it's
triggered by a socialcomparison.
We won't feel envy when someoneis doing something or has
(08:16):
something that we don't careabout or we don't want.
So for example, if someone is anamazing chess player and you
don't care about chess, then youare not gonna feel envy towards
them, versus if.
Someone makes a big return on aninvestment and we also wanna
(08:38):
excel financially that may turninto a feeling of envy..
Envy is someone has somethingthat you want and.
It's not that you don't want theother person to have it, it's
just that you want it to, soit's like you have it, I want
it.
We can both have it.
Unlike envy, jealousy is a threeperson emotion and it often
(09:04):
occurs when one person fearslosing another to a third.
So going back to my girl Breneand how she defines it.
Jealousy.
Is when we fear losing arelationship or a valued part of
a relationship that we alreadyhave.
So it's, I have it.
You're gonna take it away fromme.
I'm threatened by the loss ofthis potential person or thing,
(09:27):
Now whether the threat is realor perceived when you think that
someone you love or not evenlove, someone that you have in
your pocket, whatever.
When you think that someone you.
Already love or have may replaceyou with someone else or
something else, you will feeljealousy.
I hate when people are like, oh,I'm not a jealous person.
(09:49):
I'm not a jealous person.
Like I get it.
Like maybe you don't identifywith being the type of person
that is constantly jealous, butwe have all experienced the
human emotion of jealousy.
I think the best way to put thatinto frame is to think about
maybe being at a party, right?
We've all been at a party withour significant other.
You think that your person isflirting with someone else.
(10:13):
Hello, jealousy.
This can also apply to platonicrelationships.
Your best friend is hanging outwith some other friend that you
don't know like that, and you'relike who is this chick?
As mentioned, anyone can feeljealousy and not necessarily
have to connect with this ideaof being a jealous person.
(10:35):
Interestingly enough, jealousyis very closely tied to a
feeling of inadequacy or beingless than.
Keep this in mind for later whenwe discuss people being jealous
of your sobriety.
I have to reference the onsetfeud between two co-stars on my
(10:55):
favorite show in the early twothousands Charmed.
So we have Shannon Doherty,sorry if I pronounced her name
wrong, and Alyssa Milano.
And long story short, Shannonwas supposed to be the star of
the show.
Okay?
This girl came from 9 1 2 1 ohfame.
She had a cult following frombeing a teen star and Alyssa
(11:17):
Milano also was a child actress,but I think less popular.
Anyway, when the show waslaunched, Shannon was supposed
to be the Stars mentioned, andall of a sudden, here comes
Milano.
She's, more outgoing, sparkly, Idon't wanna say she's more
beautiful.
They're both beautiful girls,but she was younger, so maybe
that had some kind of impact aswell.
(11:38):
Anyway Alyssa's getting all ofthe attention and the publicity
that otherwise would have andshould have been Shannon's,
should have is in terms of how Iimagine Shannon would see it.
Now, I can't verify for surethat Shannon was jealous, but
she did end up leaving the showand deep down, I bet she thought
(12:02):
her light was dimmed.
Dimmer compared to Milano orAlyssa and that she should have
rightfully been the star of theshow.
This probably happens all thetime in Hollywood, but that's
immediately what I thought of interms of feeling inadequate or
lesser than compared to someoneelse.
And that kind of allowingjealousy to rear its ugly head.
(12:26):
Jealousy appears when there's athreat, when there's a rival.
Emotions are on a spectrum,right?
So if you are only mildlyjealous of someone or something,
you may not actually doanything, but if you perceive
that the threat is high, you mayact, you probably will want to
disrupt the situation.
AKA Shannon leaving this popularsyndicated network show.
(12:50):
So while both jealousy and envyinvolve wanting something that
someone else has, like anopportunity, a relationship, a
house, whatever, it's usuallyonly with jealousy that you'll
have thoughts like.
Why am I not good enough forthat role?
What do they have that I don't?
Are they going to leave me forsomeone else?
(13:13):
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(13:37):
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(14:23):
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(14:47):
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When I think about how sobrietyhas transformed my life, I can't
help but think back to theMaybelline commercials.
(15:08):
I'm feeling really nostalgictoday.
Like back in the day it waslike, I dunno if they still say
this, but it's like maybe she'sborn with it.
Maybe it's meine.
Like I think maybe she's bornwith it.
Maybe it's a sobriety.
Like I kid you not like that'swhat.
I think about anyway.
People who stop drinkingdepressants, shockingly are
(15:30):
happier.
We talked about this, so goingback to this idea of people
being jealous of your sobriety,and now that we understand we
have common language around.
Being jealous versus beingenvious.
Let's just take a pause andthink about, okay, what would
envy look like if someone'senvious of your sobriety, which
(15:50):
I think is healthy.
So envy would be people noticingthat you seem happier, you seem
more confident, you seem moresuccessful, whatever, in
sobriety.
Sobriety has led you to thishappier life that brings so much
more fulfillment or contentmentand peace.
And other people recognize thatand they recognize that they may
(16:11):
want that for themselves.
Even if they don't make thedistinct connection between you
being better, I'll say, andsobriety, they notice, right,
that something is differentabout you and the best way, I
think to help people.
Change their relationship,especially if it's toxic to
alcohol, is to show them byexample.
(16:33):
Like I mentioned, I think peoplebeing envious of your sobriety
is fine.
I think it's healthy actually,versus if someone is jealous of
your sobriety, that isproblematic.
And remember I said at the startof the episode, people are
jealous of three things.
Your happiness, your confidencein your successes or
(16:54):
achievements.
So jealousy really.
Creeps in here, jealousy towardssomeone's newfound.
Happiness in sobriety can arisefor various reasons, they are
usually rooted in personalinsecurities, societal
expectations, and individualstruggles and stories, so I do
(17:14):
not want to generalize too muchhere, but the main thing to
remember is that jealousytypically arises when someone
feels threatened or they mayfeel that they are losing you.
So I know what you're thinking.
How does me.
Getting sober and finallyfinding true happiness without a
substance pose a threat toanyone.
(17:38):
Well, it may be helpful toevaluate what your relationship
to that person looked likebefore you got sober.
Were you guys drinking pals?
Were you party friends?
Were you the person that theycould always depend on to have a
good time, a k, a drink, or dowhatever.
If you answered yes to thesequestions or any of those
questions, then that person maybe jealous of you.
(18:01):
And it's not necessarily becausethey want what you have, but
it's because they want theversion of you that they can no
longer have, that they werecomfortable with, not this happy
granola version of you.
They want the chaotic, legendaryversion of you that they love
and you hate.
(18:21):
And to make matters worse, younow expect them to be happy for
this new sparkly sober versionof you.
Distinguishing between someonebeing envious and jealous of you
is critical because once you areable to pinpoint that, someone
may be jealous of you and yoursobriety.
(18:41):
It's tricky to navigate fromhere.
I used to be of the mindset thatlike anyone that wasn't truly
there for me supporting me,snip, snip, Bye-Bye, you're
gone.
And so I've pivoted somewhatlater in life and realized that
you shouldn't always just cutpeople off without giving them a
chance to.
(19:02):
Change and show you that theyare truly invested in the
relationship and want to dobetter.
The question that I often thinkabout in connection to people
being jealous of you and yoursobriety is, do you keep this
person in your life that isjealous of you and your
sobriety?
Or do you kick them to the curblike you kicked your bad habits?
(19:23):
This is tough and I'm so sorry Icannot answer that question for
you.
I feel like it is so individual,it's so individualized and
personal, so I can't answer it,but I can give you some key red
flags that you can look for todetermine if someone is jealous
of you and your sobriety.
(19:43):
I think I've gotten to a placewhere I can like recognize the
signs pretty clearly, but if youare struggling and if.
Throughout this episode, you'vebeen thinking of like a specific
person, maybe, or people, andyou're like, Hmm.
are they jealous of me or arethey envious?
Or am I, am I tripping?
Don't gaslight yourself.
Like, let me just give you somekey red flags to look for.
(20:07):
Okay.
The number one red flag thatsomeone may be jealous of
viewing your sobriety is makingfrequent comparisons, and I'm
not talking about comparingthemselves to you per se,
although that could be a sign aswell, but I mean that they're
constantly comparing.
(20:28):
You to the old version of you.
The version of you that wasdrinking, the version of you
that was cringe, the version ofyou that was not thriving, was
depressed, was using alcohol ina really toxic way.
and their intention is theywanna highlight all of the bad
moments or memories as opposedto recognizing some of your
(20:52):
achievements, your sobermilestones, how you look better
or just any of the personalsuccesses that you have now
achieved in sobriety and payspecial attention here to.
The setting, like how are theydoing this?
If they're doing this publiclyin front of other people, that
is like a huge red flag rightthere.
(21:13):
They want to diminish you.
They wanna embarrass you, theywanna tear you down in front of
other people so that you canfeel lesser than, so that you
can feel inferior.
And it's often under the guiseof it being a funny story,
right?
Remember that time that youpassed out?
In the trash can and almost diedgood times.
(21:36):
I miss that.
So that is just like my favoriteway to pinpoint that someone may
actually be jealous of me andall the progress that I've made
in sobriety because it'sdefinitely carrying this
undertone of sarcasm orinsincerity when they are
telling this story.
Oftentimes out of context, likehow do we get here?
(21:58):
and at my expense.
Or at your expense.
So pay attention to that.
It's not funny.
And girl, I don't remember thatbecause I was blackout like,
come on.
So why are you telling the storyfor the umpteenth time?
So yeah, making frequentcomparisons.
And it can also be included withthem, right?
So if they're constantlycomparing all of your.
(22:20):
Progress in sobriety compared tolike where they are in their
station of life, like they'restill uncomfortable with maybe
their drinking patterns andhabits and they commonly refer
to that.
I would say that's probably moreenvy though.
That's why I was leaning moreon, like comparing you to old
you because they may justrecognize that they have an
unhealthy relationship withalcohol.
(22:42):
Now that you are holding up amirror like your light is.
Reflecting their own choices,and they may not like that and
may want what you have asopposed to wanting to take away
what you have that they don'thave.
Okay.
Anyway, so frequent comparisons.
The second thing that you canlook for in terms of red flags,
(23:04):
that someone is jealous of youand your sobriety is
unsupportive reactions.
This is probably the mostobvious, but I want to make it
obvious to us as well.
So if someone's showing a lackof enthusiasm or support when
you share, especially when youshare good news or.
Accomplishments oh my God, likethis is my 90 days of sobriety
(23:25):
and you're met with this flat.
Oh, okay, cool.
Good for you.
Like reaction?
Yeah, they're probably jealous.
And the jealousy here maybebecause as mentioned, they feel
like you are evolving, you'rechanging too much maybe too
quickly and they can't keep upand therefore may lose you.
So yeah, if people are justmeeting you with a very flat
(23:46):
line response to something thatyou're really excited or proud
of, that could be a red flag.
Another connection tounsupportive reactions is no
reaction.
And what I mean by no reactionis if you have people in your
life, especially people thatknew you before you got sober,
and what life looked like foryou before sobriety, and they
(24:09):
don't.
Ever ask you about yoursobriety?
That is a red flag in myopinion.
I feel like when peoplecompletely overlook how hard
you've worked to get to thisplace and never check in never
ask you how's your sobrietygoing?
Like how are you feeling?
Especially if you hang out withthese people in social settings
(24:30):
and it's just not even.
A consideration, then yeah, theymay be jealous of you.
I have people like that in mylife and I'm learning how to
navigate that full disclosure.
It bothers me though.
It bothers me that people neverask me.
(24:51):
How my sobriety is going,especially because I've built an
entire community, brand businesspodcast around my sober
lifestyle.
And I have quote unquote,friends who never, like any of
my posts, never comment, nevershare, and so that to me.
It's a red flag.
(25:11):
All right.
The final red flag I wanna talkabout is just competitive
attitude.
Like I'm an s so I think I'mnaturally competitive by nature,
but if someone is always tryingto one up you and your sobriety
or prove themselves superior,then yeah, that's a red flag.
(25:31):
So that may look like yousharing.
Something that you've donepositive due to becoming sober,
and they immediately deflect theconversation to what they're
doing that's better than you.
And it won't be so obvious oh,good for you, but I'm doing
this.
But it is sometimes thatobvious.
It's oh, like maybe they give avery minimal response, like we
(25:53):
talked about, like minimalreaction, and then they
immediately detour theconversation back to or towards
something that they are doingthat is way better.
So yeah, those are just some ofthe red flags that you can look
for in determining if someone isjealous of you versus maybe ous
of you.
(26:15):
The value in identifying ifsomeone may be jealous of you,
is just recognizing if you wannamaintain some of those
relationships, I.
Recognizing jealousy allows youto address any underlying
issues, maintain opencommunication with your friends,
family, or peers, and then formhealthier relationships that are
(26:35):
built on understanding andsupport.
It also helps with settingboundaries.
As mentioned, I'm not gonna tellyou what to do.
With some relationships that youmay be wondering now if the
person is jealous of you.
I will tell you though, thatboundaries can solve like 99% of
(26:55):
problems.
And so if you have this sneakingsuspicion in your gut that
someone.
Is actually jealous of yoursobriety.
Start setting those clearboundaries from now and that can
actually be cr crucial to youmaintaining that relationship
and that person in your life ifyou feel like there's value in
having them still around.
(27:17):
And I will say that going backto some examples that I had,
like I've definitely heldresentments towards people who I
feel have been.
Jealous of my sobriety in thepast, but they also think that,
remember jealousy is becausesomeone feels that a threat has
been posed.
So I do believe that most peopleare jealous because they think
they're going to lose you or theversion of you that they are
(27:39):
comfortable with.
And it's not because theynecessarily always wanna see you
lose and they wanna see you downand they wanna be better than
you.
Although that has been the casein some relationships also.
But I think the majority ofpeople just need a transition
period.
They may need to grieve the oldversion of you so that they can
fully embrace the new version ofyou.
And so giving people that graceperiod can be really helpful.
(28:03):
And the way that you givesomeone grace period without you
now starting to form and holdresentments against them for
their lack of support is bysetting boundaries.
So boundaries, and then somemore boundaries.
And lastly, it can help with.
Providing support.
So once again, it is not yourjob to help someone get sober.
(28:25):
It's not even if you're asobriety coach, like people are
going to get sober when they areready and able to get sober on
their own timeline.
And so instead, you can showthem support by living your best
sober life.
We shine by example.
People see that.
(28:45):
They're already recognizing thatthey're already wanting that.
So it's just now a matter ofusing yourself as a source of
inspiration and guidance foranyone that may be struggling
with their own relationship tosubstances.
And once they get to a place ofemotional maturity to recognize
that they may be jealous orenvious, then they can pivot
(29:08):
accordingly.
so in summation, I feel like I'mwriting a paper in summation.
Jealousy and envy, butespecially jealousy is a really
complex emotion and people maynot always be conscious of their
feelings.
So you wanna make sure that youapproach the situation with
knowledge, first of all.
(29:28):
Now, hopefully you have a lotmore information about the two,
and you wanna approach thesituation with empathy, which
can lead to a willingness tohelp and understand other
people.
So I appreciate you guys fortapping into this episode.
I hope it wasn't too taboo.
I, I really tried to approach itfrom different perspectives,
(29:49):
like, you know, humanizing theemotion of.
Jealousy because it is a realhuman emotion, and we have all
experienced jealousy and envy inour lives, and I hope that we
start using envy properly.
Like instead of being like, oh,I'm so jealous of you're a new
puppy.
It's like, no, I'm so envious ofyour.
(30:11):
New puppy.
So anyway, I hope this episodehelped.
If you liked it, you know whatto do.
Go ahead and let me know.
On Insta, you can find me atthe.
Sober butterfly.
I love, love, love getting dmsfrom you guys, especially when
it's about my podcast and theepisode and how it helped you.
(30:32):
So please let me know, like Iwill respond.
Um, it may take three to fivebusiness days, but I will
respond.
And then lastly, I just want toencourage anyone who has not
done so to leave a review forthe show.
Five stars, please.
Five stars.
It just really helps the showgrow.
And yeah, make sure you'refollowing me on all the things.
(30:53):
I will plug everything mentionedin the show notes for today's
episode.
oh, really quickly, if you'relistening to this episode in
real time, today is the last dayof dry January, and I'm really
happy that dry January is likethis mainstream event or
challenge.
Now, most people I think I talkto at least know about it and
(31:14):
they share about it.
Um, but ooh, New York sounds.
Um, but I often wonder, is ittoo mainstream?
Um, is it super commercialized?
I, I love mocktails and I love aalcohol-free cocktails and all
of the cool things they'redoing, but I can't help but
wonder, Carrie Bradshaw voice.
(31:36):
Have we dried out All meaningfrom dry January?
Okay.
I'll leave that with you.
If you have been doing Jja andyou're like, okay, I can drink
again.
It's, it's about to be February.
Maybe don't, maybe keep going.
Just a thought.
If you're itching or burning,you have this burning desire to
(31:56):
drink, that's fine too.
If you just white knuckled yourway through the month, that's
fine.
But don't forget, forgiveyourself.
But don't forget, keep ajournal.
That's how I was able to takeinventory better.
Um, I would go through myjournal notes when I, when I was
ready to get sober.
It was just really great datathat was staring at me in black
(32:18):
and white.
So, anyway.
I digress.
Wishing you guys the best end ofmonth, beginning of February is
Black History Month, so I'mgonna be talking about some
black stuff next week.
love you guys.
See you next week.
Bye.
Hello, hello and welcome to theSober Butterfly Your sober
resource for Inspo Stories,lifestyle, and Travel.
I am Nadine Mulvina and today isa solo episode that has been on
my mind for quite some time.
I feel.
I feel vulnerable.
I think about sharing on thistopic of jealousy, as you may
(00:25):
have been able to tell by thetitle.
And I think I'm nervous,anxious, a little vulnerable for
a number of reasons.
One being I don't wanna beperceived as self-absorbed or
conceited.
oh, everyone is just so jealousof me and my sobriety.
no, that's definitely not what Iwanna put out there.
(00:48):
I also feel a little vulnerablebecause I'll be sharing some
personal stories and anecdotesin connection to this topic of
jealousy today.
And then finally, it's just nota topic that I hear too much
about in the sobriety orrecovery spaces.
I think people allude to thisidea of losing friends in
(01:08):
sobriety.
This is a common expression I'veheard, but I think that's more
aligned to maybe lifestyleshifts or a lack of support as
opposed to outright jealousy oreven subtle jealousy.
So I think it's actually reallyimportant to explore why some
people may be jealous of yoursobriety so that we can
(01:32):
recognize some of those redflags and pivot as needed.
And if you're not sober, this isalso helpful because you may be
able to identify why somepeople's jealousy of you
intending to get sober mayactually prevent you from
getting sober.
Interestingly enough, one of theideas that sparked this episode
(01:54):
was actually an expression thatis commonly used in AA meetings,
and I kept hearing in meetingswe have what they want and they
never really understood thedepth of this expression.
What is it that we have thatthey want?
So I'm gonna break down what itis that we have sober people
(02:14):
that they want or may want.
In general, people are jealousof three things in life.
Now sober people also happen tohave these three things.
So the number one thing is yourhappiness, your joy.
People who are perpetuallyhappy, people who always seem to
(02:37):
bounce back despite failures ordepressing moments.
When you're no longer drinking adepressing substance, shocking,
it shows you just glowdifferently.
You exude this level ofhappiness that other people may
want to also have.
Which brings me to the secondthing that people are jealous
(02:59):
of.
Your confidence, your power,your personal power.
Most people do not haveconfidence in themselves, hence
they feel the need to drink tomask that sense of inadequacy or
those insecurities.
Especially in social settings.
That's why I love to commonlyrefer to alcohol as a social
(03:23):
lubricant.
They think it unlocks a part ofthemself that they can't access
themself, so they drink tobecome, or at least pretend to.
Exude this air of confidencethat they don't really feel that
they have.
So that's the second thing.
Your confidence, your personalpower.
And then lastly, people arejealous of your achievements,
(03:44):
your success.
Yes.
Even your bestest closestfriends can have jealousy for
your achievements in life.
And later on in the episode I'mgoing to explore ways in which
you can tell if people arejealous of your achievements,
these sober milestones thatyou're hitting, or just, you
know, we know this when we getsober.
We optimize our lives in so manyways.
(04:06):
So you may see success in areasof your life that you never
would've been able to accomplishhad you still been drinking and.
Please believe me.
People are paying attention tothat.
People are noticing that.
And so that can sometimes createthis sense of jealousy.
So as mentioned, three thingspeople are typically jealous of
(04:30):
in life.
This is not just for sobriety,but all sober people, in my
opinion, have.
Demonstrated successes in theseareas or gains in these areas.
So that's your happiness, yourcompetence in your achievements.
I'm gonna break this down somemore later, but this is just a
quick rundown note that I didn'teven mention money, by the way.
And that's because even peoplewith money, wealthy people, rich
(04:52):
people can be jealous of you forthose aforementioned points.
So before we get into all theways people may be jealous of
you and your sobriety, I wannatake a moment to define jealousy
in contrast to envy.
I too make the mistake ofconflating the two.
So for example, like I maycomment on Insta.
(05:13):
I'm so jealous when I see myfriend living her best life in
the south of France, right?
That's an example of me makingthe mistake of saying, I'm
jealous because according tosocial psychologist, Brene
Brown, that's my girl, Bebe, oh,she's commonly referred to in my
heart.
But Bebe would.
Actually define this idea of youbeing jealous of your friend's
(05:35):
vacation as envy.
In her book, Brene Brown's book,Atlas of the Heart, which the
best way I can describe thatbook is it's like a dictionary
of emotions and she reallybreaks down like the
explanations of said emotionsand how they can not just impact
our lives, how we feel inconnection to other people and
(05:57):
how we therefore behave andinteract with other people.
Brene Brittany defines envy aswhen we want something that
another person has.
She then goes on, to say envyinvolves two people typically.
So say for example, your bestfriend, she gets engaged to the
man of her dreams and you can'teven find a guy on Hinge to ask
(06:22):
you out on a date properly.
Hinge for people who may notknow it's a dating app anyway.
Maybe you see some likebeautiful influencer posting
beautiful travel pics all overthe world, while you can barely
afford to get a babysitter towatch your kids for, I don't
know, like a fun girls nightout.
These people have something thatyou want, but the distinction
(06:44):
here is that just because theyhave what you want does not mean
that they're actually takingthose things away from you.
So being able to properlyidentify that you are envious,
not jealous, but envious of yourfriend, getting engaged, that
can help you do a number ofthings, for example, can make
you not become bitter towardsher.
(07:06):
She, didn't get engaged to hurtyour feelings.
And two.
You can start to realize howimportant the goal of settling
down maybe for you or datingseriously.
And then finally, I think thisis crucial.
You can then start to reallocateyour energy toward that goal.
Simply put, envy can often servethe purpose of making our life
(07:31):
goals clearer.
So going back to that phrase inaa, we have what you want.
It's actually meant to be amessage of hope.
Motivation, encouragement toanyone that's struggling with
alcohol addiction or drinkingexcessively.
So it's like you're challengingenvy in a good way.
(07:55):
And the primary implication isthat members of AA have found a
way to achieve and maintainsobriety, which is something
that you know, you may beseeking.
So as mentioned, envy is more ofa two person emotion and it's
triggered by a socialcomparison.
We won't feel envy when someoneis doing something or has
(08:16):
something that we don't careabout or we don't want.
So for example, if someone is anamazing chess player and you
don't care about chess, then youare not gonna feel envy towards
them, versus if.
Someone makes a big return on aninvestment and we also wanna
(08:38):
excel financially that may turninto a feeling of envy..
Envy is someone has somethingthat you want and.
It's not that you don't want theother person to have it, it's
just that you want it to, soit's like you have it, I want
it.
We can both have it.
Unlike envy, jealousy is a threeperson emotion and it often
(09:04):
occurs when one person fearslosing another to a third.
So going back to my girl Breneand how she defines it.
Jealousy.
Is when we fear losing arelationship or a valued part of
a relationship that we alreadyhave.
So it's, I have it.
You're gonna take it away fromme.
I'm threatened by the loss ofthis potential person or thing,
(09:27):
Now whether the threat is realor perceived when you think that
someone you love or not evenlove, someone that you have in
your pocket, whatever.
When you think that someone you.
Already love or have may replaceyou with someone else or
something else, you will feeljealousy.
I hate when people are like, oh,I'm not a jealous person.
(09:49):
I'm not a jealous person.
Like I get it.
Like maybe you don't identifywith being the type of person
that is constantly jealous, butwe have all experienced the
human emotion of jealousy.
I think the best way to put thatinto frame is to think about
maybe being at a party, right?
We've all been at a party withour significant other.
You think that your person isflirting with someone else.
(10:13):
Hello, jealousy.
This can also apply to platonicrelationships.
Your best friend is hanging outwith some other friend that you
don't know like that, and you'relike who is this chick?
As mentioned, anyone can feeljealousy and not necessarily
have to connect with this ideaof being a jealous person.
(10:35):
Interestingly enough, jealousyis very closely tied to a
feeling of inadequacy or beingless than.
Keep this in mind for later whenwe discuss people being jealous
of your sobriety.
I have to reference the onsetfeud between two co-stars on my
(10:55):
favorite show in the early twothousands Charmed.
So we have Shannon Doherty,sorry if I pronounced her name
wrong, and Alyssa Milano.
And long story short, Shannonwas supposed to be the star of
the show.
Okay?
This girl came from 9 1 2 1 ohfame.
She had a cult following frombeing a teen star and Alyssa
(11:17):
Milano also was a child actress,but I think less popular.
Anyway, when the show waslaunched, Shannon was supposed
to be the Stars mentioned, andall of a sudden, here comes
Milano.
She's, more outgoing, sparkly, Idon't wanna say she's more
beautiful.
They're both beautiful girls,but she was younger, so maybe
that had some kind of impact aswell.
(11:38):
Anyway Alyssa's getting all ofthe attention and the publicity
that otherwise would have andshould have been Shannon's,
should have is in terms of how Iimagine Shannon would see it.
Now, I can't verify for surethat Shannon was jealous, but
she did end up leaving the showand deep down, I bet she thought
(12:02):
her light was dimmed.
Dimmer compared to Milano orAlyssa and that she should have
rightfully been the star of theshow.
This probably happens all thetime in Hollywood, but that's
immediately what I thought of interms of feeling inadequate or
lesser than compared to someoneelse.
And that kind of allowingjealousy to rear its ugly head.
(12:26):
Jealousy appears when there's athreat, when there's a rival.
Emotions are on a spectrum,right?
So if you are only mildlyjealous of someone or something,
you may not actually doanything, but if you perceive
that the threat is high, you mayact, you probably will want to
disrupt the situation.
AKA Shannon leaving this popularsyndicated network show.
(12:50):
So while both jealousy and envyinvolve wanting something that
someone else has, like anopportunity, a relationship, a
house, whatever, it's usuallyonly with jealousy that you'll
have thoughts like.
Why am I not good enough forthat role?
What do they have that I don't?
Are they going to leave me forsomeone else?
(13:13):
So enter sobriety here.
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Now, what I love about moment isthat not only does it taste
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(13:37):
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(14:00):
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I love a good sparkle moment sothat's typically the route I
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In the morning it's great for aboost to start the day versus in
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versus going into the gymbecause it just really helps.
(14:23):
Reenergize me.
And then in the evening if youwant to wind down after a long
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then Moment is great for thattoo.
One of the best parts for mewith Moment is I feel like it's
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(14:47):
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Let's be moment buddies.
We can both have momentstogether.
When I think about how sobrietyhas transformed my life, I can't
help but think back to theMaybelline commercials.
(15:08):
I'm feeling really nostalgictoday.
Like back in the day it waslike, I dunno if they still say
this, but it's like maybe she'sborn with it.
Maybe it's meine.
Like I think maybe she's bornwith it.
Maybe it's a sobriety.
Like I kid you not like that'swhat.
I think about anyway.
People who stop drinkingdepressants, shockingly are
(15:30):
happier.
We talked about this, so goingback to this idea of people
being jealous of your sobriety,and now that we understand we
have common language around.
Being jealous versus beingenvious.
Let's just take a pause andthink about, okay, what would
envy look like if someone'senvious of your sobriety, which
(15:50):
I think is healthy.
So envy would be people noticingthat you seem happier, you seem
more confident, you seem moresuccessful, whatever, in
sobriety.
Sobriety has led you to thishappier life that brings so much
more fulfillment or contentmentand peace.
And other people recognize thatand they recognize that they may
(16:11):
want that for themselves.
Even if they don't make thedistinct connection between you
being better, I'll say, andsobriety, they notice, right,
that something is differentabout you and the best way, I
think to help people.
Change their relationship,especially if it's toxic to
alcohol, is to show them byexample.
(16:33):
Like I mentioned, I think peoplebeing envious of your sobriety
is fine.
I think it's healthy actually,versus if someone is jealous of
your sobriety, that isproblematic.
And remember I said at the startof the episode, people are
jealous of three things.
Your happiness, your confidencein your successes or
(16:54):
achievements.
So jealousy really.
Creeps in here, jealousy towardssomeone's newfound.
Happiness in sobriety can arisefor various reasons, they are
usually rooted in personalinsecurities, societal
expectations, and individualstruggles and stories, so I do
(17:14):
not want to generalize too muchhere, but the main thing to
remember is that jealousytypically arises when someone
feels threatened or they mayfeel that they are losing you.
So I know what you're thinking.
How does me.
Getting sober and finallyfinding true happiness without a
substance pose a threat toanyone.
(17:38):
Well, it may be helpful toevaluate what your relationship
to that person looked likebefore you got sober.
Were you guys drinking pals?
Were you party friends?
Were you the person that theycould always depend on to have a
good time, a k, a drink, or dowhatever.
If you answered yes to thesequestions or any of those
questions, then that person maybe jealous of you.
(18:01):
And it's not necessarily becausethey want what you have, but
it's because they want theversion of you that they can no
longer have, that they werecomfortable with, not this happy
granola version of you.
They want the chaotic, legendaryversion of you that they love
and you hate.
(18:21):
And to make matters worse, younow expect them to be happy for
this new sparkly sober versionof you.
Distinguishing between someonebeing envious and jealous of you
is critical because once you areable to pinpoint that, someone
may be jealous of you and yoursobriety.
(18:41):
It's tricky to navigate fromhere.
I used to be of the mindset thatlike anyone that wasn't truly
there for me supporting me,snip, snip, Bye-Bye, you're
gone.
And so I've pivoted somewhatlater in life and realized that
you shouldn't always just cutpeople off without giving them a
chance to.
(19:02):
Change and show you that theyare truly invested in the
relationship and want to dobetter.
The question that I often thinkabout in connection to people
being jealous of you and yoursobriety is, do you keep this
person in your life that isjealous of you and your
sobriety?
Or do you kick them to the curblike you kicked your bad habits?
(19:23):
This is tough and I'm so sorry Icannot answer that question for
you.
I feel like it is so individual,it's so individualized and
personal, so I can't answer it,but I can give you some key red
flags that you can look for todetermine if someone is jealous
of you and your sobriety.
(19:43):
I think I've gotten to a placewhere I can like recognize the
signs pretty clearly, but if youare struggling and if.
Throughout this episode, you'vebeen thinking of like a specific
person, maybe, or people, andyou're like, Hmm.
are they jealous of me or arethey envious?
Or am I, am I tripping?
Don't gaslight yourself.
Like, let me just give you somekey red flags to look for.
(20:07):
Okay.
The number one red flag thatsomeone may be jealous of
viewing your sobriety is makingfrequent comparisons, and I'm
not talking about comparingthemselves to you per se,
although that could be a sign aswell, but I mean that they're
constantly comparing.
(20:28):
You to the old version of you.
The version of you that wasdrinking, the version of you
that was cringe, the version ofyou that was not thriving, was
depressed, was using alcohol ina really toxic way.
and their intention is theywanna highlight all of the bad
moments or memories as opposedto recognizing some of your
(20:52):
achievements, your sobermilestones, how you look better
or just any of the personalsuccesses that you have now
achieved in sobriety and payspecial attention here to.
The setting, like how are theydoing this?
If they're doing this publiclyin front of other people, that
is like a huge red flag rightthere.
(21:13):
They want to diminish you.
They wanna embarrass you, theywanna tear you down in front of
other people so that you canfeel lesser than, so that you
can feel inferior.
And it's often under the guiseof it being a funny story,
right?
Remember that time that youpassed out?
In the trash can and almost diedgood times.
(21:36):
I miss that.
So that is just like my favoriteway to pinpoint that someone may
actually be jealous of me andall the progress that I've made
in sobriety because it'sdefinitely carrying this
undertone of sarcasm orinsincerity when they are
telling this story.
Oftentimes out of context, likehow do we get here?
(21:58):
and at my expense.
Or at your expense.
So pay attention to that.
It's not funny.
And girl, I don't remember thatbecause I was blackout like,
come on.
So why are you telling the storyfor the umpteenth time?
So yeah, making frequentcomparisons.
And it can also be included withthem, right?
So if they're constantlycomparing all of your.
(22:20):
Progress in sobriety compared tolike where they are in their
station of life, like they'restill uncomfortable with maybe
their drinking patterns andhabits and they commonly refer
to that.
I would say that's probably moreenvy though.
That's why I was leaning moreon, like comparing you to old
you because they may justrecognize that they have an
unhealthy relationship withalcohol.
(22:42):
Now that you are holding up amirror like your light is.
Reflecting their own choices,and they may not like that and
may want what you have asopposed to wanting to take away
what you have that they don'thave.
Okay.
Anyway, so frequent comparisons.
The second thing that you canlook for in terms of red flags,
(23:04):
that someone is jealous of youand your sobriety is
unsupportive reactions.
This is probably the mostobvious, but I want to make it
obvious to us as well.
So if someone's showing a lackof enthusiasm or support when
you share, especially when youshare good news or.
Accomplishments oh my God, likethis is my 90 days of sobriety
(23:25):
and you're met with this flat.
Oh, okay, cool.
Good for you.
Like reaction?
Yeah, they're probably jealous.
And the jealousy here maybebecause as mentioned, they feel
like you are evolving, you'rechanging too much maybe too
quickly and they can't keep upand therefore may lose you.
So yeah, if people are justmeeting you with a very flat
(23:46):
line response to something thatyou're really excited or proud
of, that could be a red flag.
Another connection tounsupportive reactions is no
reaction.
And what I mean by no reactionis if you have people in your
life, especially people thatknew you before you got sober,
and what life looked like foryou before sobriety, and they
(24:09):
don't.
Ever ask you about yoursobriety?
That is a red flag in myopinion.
I feel like when peoplecompletely overlook how hard
you've worked to get to thisplace and never check in never
ask you how's your sobrietygoing?
Like how are you feeling?
Especially if you hang out withthese people in social settings
(24:30):
and it's just not even.
A consideration, then yeah, theymay be jealous of you.
I have people like that in mylife and I'm learning how to
navigate that full disclosure.
It bothers me though.
It bothers me that people neverask me.
(24:51):
How my sobriety is going,especially because I've built an
entire community, brand businesspodcast around my sober
lifestyle.
And I have quote unquote,friends who never, like any of
my posts, never comment, nevershare, and so that to me.
It's a red flag.
(25:11):
All right.
The final red flag I wanna talkabout is just competitive
attitude.
Like I'm an s so I think I'mnaturally competitive by nature,
but if someone is always tryingto one up you and your sobriety
or prove themselves superior,then yeah, that's a red flag.
(25:31):
So that may look like yousharing.
Something that you've donepositive due to becoming sober,
and they immediately deflect theconversation to what they're
doing that's better than you.
And it won't be so obvious oh,good for you, but I'm doing
this.
But it is sometimes thatobvious.
It's oh, like maybe they give avery minimal response, like we
(25:53):
talked about, like minimalreaction, and then they
immediately detour theconversation back to or towards
something that they are doingthat is way better.
So yeah, those are just some ofthe red flags that you can look
for in determining if someone isjealous of you versus maybe ous
of you.
(26:15):
The value in identifying ifsomeone may be jealous of you,
is just recognizing if you wannamaintain some of those
relationships, I.
Recognizing jealousy allows youto address any underlying
issues, maintain opencommunication with your friends,
family, or peers, and then formhealthier relationships that are
(26:35):
built on understanding andsupport.
It also helps with settingboundaries.
As mentioned, I'm not gonna tellyou what to do.
With some relationships that youmay be wondering now if the
person is jealous of you.
I will tell you though, thatboundaries can solve like 99% of
(26:55):
problems.
And so if you have this sneakingsuspicion in your gut that
someone.
Is actually jealous of yoursobriety.
Start setting those clearboundaries from now and that can
actually be cr crucial to youmaintaining that relationship
and that person in your life ifyou feel like there's value in
having them still around.
(27:17):
And I will say that going backto some examples that I had,
like I've definitely heldresentments towards people who I
feel have been.
Jealous of my sobriety in thepast, but they also think that,
remember jealousy is becausesomeone feels that a threat has
been posed.
So I do believe that most peopleare jealous because they think
they're going to lose you or theversion of you that they are
(27:39):
comfortable with.
And it's not because theynecessarily always wanna see you
lose and they wanna see you downand they wanna be better than
you.
Although that has been the casein some relationships also.
But I think the majority ofpeople just need a transition
period.
They may need to grieve the oldversion of you so that they can
fully embrace the new version ofyou.
And so giving people that graceperiod can be really helpful.
(28:03):
And the way that you givesomeone grace period without you
now starting to form and holdresentments against them for
their lack of support is bysetting boundaries.
So boundaries, and then somemore boundaries.
And lastly, it can help with.
Providing support.
So once again, it is not yourjob to help someone get sober.
(28:25):
It's not even if you're asobriety coach, like people are
going to get sober when they areready and able to get sober on
their own timeline.
And so instead, you can showthem support by living your best
sober life.
We shine by example.
People see that.
(28:45):
They're already recognizing thatthey're already wanting that.
So it's just now a matter ofusing yourself as a source of
inspiration and guidance foranyone that may be struggling
with their own relationship tosubstances.
And once they get to a place ofemotional maturity to recognize
that they may be jealous orenvious, then they can pivot
(29:08):
accordingly.
so in summation, I feel like I'mwriting a paper in summation.
Jealousy and envy, butespecially jealousy is a really
complex emotion and people maynot always be conscious of their
feelings.
So you wanna make sure that youapproach the situation with
knowledge, first of all.
(29:28):
Now, hopefully you have a lotmore information about the two,
and you wanna approach thesituation with empathy, which
can lead to a willingness tohelp and understand other
people.
So I appreciate you guys fortapping into this episode.
I hope it wasn't too taboo.
I, I really tried to approach itfrom different perspectives,
(29:49):
like, you know, humanizing theemotion of.
Jealousy because it is a realhuman emotion, and we have all
experienced jealousy and envy inour lives, and I hope that we
start using envy properly.
Like instead of being like, oh,I'm so jealous of you're a new
puppy.
It's like, no, I'm so envious ofyour.
(30:11):
New puppy.
So anyway, I hope this episodehelped.
If you liked it, you know whatto do.
Go ahead and let me know.
On Insta, you can find me atthe.
Sober butterfly.
I love, love, love getting dmsfrom you guys, especially when
it's about my podcast and theepisode and how it helped you.
(30:32):
So please let me know, like Iwill respond.
Um, it may take three to fivebusiness days, but I will
respond.
And then lastly, I just want toencourage anyone who has not
done so to leave a review forthe show.
Five stars, please.
Five stars.
It just really helps the showgrow.
And yeah, make sure you'refollowing me on all the things.
(30:53):
I will plug everything mentionedin the show notes for today's
episode.
oh, really quickly, if you'relistening to this episode in
real time, today is the last dayof dry January, and I'm really
happy that dry January is likethis mainstream event or
challenge.
Now, most people I think I talkto at least know about it and
(31:14):
they share about it.
Um, but ooh, New York sounds.
Um, but I often wonder, is ittoo mainstream?
Um, is it super commercialized?
I, I love mocktails and I love aalcohol-free cocktails and all
of the cool things they'redoing, but I can't help but
wonder, Carrie Bradshaw voice.
(31:36):
Have we dried out All meaningfrom dry January?
Okay.
I'll leave that with you.
If you have been doing Jja andyou're like, okay, I can drink
again.
It's, it's about to be February.
Maybe don't, maybe keep going.
Just a thought.
If you're itching or burning,you have this burning desire to
(31:56):
drink, that's fine too.
If you just white knuckled yourway through the month, that's
fine.
But don't forget, forgiveyourself.
But don't forget, keep ajournal.
That's how I was able to takeinventory better.
Um, I would go through myjournal notes when I, when I was
ready to get sober.
It was just really great datathat was staring at me in black
(32:18):
and white.
So, anyway.
I digress.
Wishing you guys the best end ofmonth, beginning of February is
Black History Month, so I'mgonna be talking about some
black stuff next week.
love you guys.
See you next week.
Bye.
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