June 26, 2023 • 27 mins
Are you sick of social media? Feeling overwhelmed by the constant noise?
How do you avoid blending in but also avoid the burnout that comes from being constantly online?
Discover the cure for social media burnout in our enlightening conversation with digital marketing expert, Pamela Foley!
Pamela runs a digital marketing agency where she helps women over 40 be seen and heard online.
As a former attorney, she knows how to cut through the B.S. with a concise, clear and persuasive message.
Takeaways:
✅ How small business owners can strategically use social media to build relationships and get clients.
✅ The importance of having a plan, engaging with people, and understanding your target audience.
✅ How to draw upon your experience and knowledge to create a captivating story that resonates with your target audience.
✅ The importance of approaching the Internet like a never-ending networking conference and making meaningful connections.
Don't miss this insightful conversation with Pamela and learn how to navigate the digital world without burning out!
Episode Resources
Want to learn how you can stand out without the burnout of being constantly online? Grab my free training: Stand Out In 30 Seconds
...and start filling your calendar with absolute dream clients coming to you who know they’re a perfect fit for your offer.
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If you're the best-kept secret in your industry, it's time to change that.
Because when you start showing up with clarity, confidence, and the right content—your ideal clients won't just notice you. They'll choose you.
Don’t miss your chance to get a free video brand assessment to start creating videos that actually work for your business.
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Thanks for tuning in. If you found this episode helpful, share it with another expert entrepreneur who’s ready to stop blending in.
And I’ll see you next time—on The Standout Business Show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I always tell people to think of social media as a
giant dinner party.
So you wouldn't go to a dinnerparty and only talk about your I
hope you wouldn't and only talkabout yourself and you wouldn't
go and just say, buy my product, buy my product, buy my product
.
You'd actually engage in aconversation and speak to
someone like they're human.
(00:23):
And that's what you do online,because you're talking to other
people and you're buildingrelationships with other people.
Yeah, that's what you need todo.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the standout business show.
I'm Brad Powell, and today weare asking the question are you
sick of social media?
And if you are, is there anykind of cure out there?
The big, big promise of theinternet when the internet
arrived and some of us, myselfincluded, are old enough to
(00:57):
remember when that happened Thispromise was that the internet,
and then following social media,was going to level the playing
field for everybody.
You know anyone who wants tocan now reach.
You know the entire, you knowthe whole wide world with their
message.
But here we go, like noweveryone who has anything to say
(01:20):
is doing this online, and so wehave to contend with this huge
cacophony of voices and mediocrecontent and self-indulgent
influencers who are postingselfies and on and on and on.
This begs the question how doyou cut through all that noise
(01:42):
and manage to stand out onlinethese days with all of this?
How do you avoid blending inBut at the same time, if you're
trying to show up with any levelof consistency, how do you
avoid the burnout that comesfrom being constantly online?
to help us figure this out, totry and find a cure, i've
(02:04):
invited Pamela Foley onto thestandout business show and Pam
runs her own digital marketingagency where she helps women
over 40 be seen and be heardonline, so I think she's going
to be a great person to talkabout this.
She is a former attorney, soshe knows how to cut through the
(02:25):
BS, which she can be concise,clear and persuasive.
You know imagine in thecourtroom how you have to do
that, so I think this is goingto be great.
We're going to take a deep divein how you can get over your
social media malaise And withthat let's start the show.
(02:46):
Pam, welcome to the show,thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That was quite the introduction.
I'm excited to talk about it,right?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, to start, let's just agitate the problem a
little bit.
So, for you on a personal level, and also what you see going
with your clients, how would youdescribe the social media
malaise that we seem to bedealing with?
you know, all over the place.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I think actually sort of along what you were just
saying in your introduction.
I think that part of the issueis there's so much content out
there that and algorithms insocial media are designed to
show you such a narrow segmentof your people that most people,
(03:39):
when they post on social media,if they don't do it
strategically, then reallythey're being ignored, And so it
feels like a waste of time Andyou know you can only see how
much or what people are havingfor dinner so many times before.
you just don't care anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right, yeah, for sure , yeah, okay, so, and then
there's also, i would describe,a kind of mindset issue, which
is that first, you know, firstof all, because of all the
things that we're seeing, we getinto this comparison game where
you see all these people doingone thing or another And it's,
you know anything from.
They're leading a wonderfullife, because they seem to be
(04:20):
always on the beach somewhere ina tropical place.
Or we see, like, say, onLinkedIn, where I'm pretty
active, you see these folks andthey've amassed, you know,
150,000 people who are followingthem, and when they post a
piece of content, within likethe first hour, it's getting
hundreds of comments, not justlikes, but they're sort of
(04:43):
generating this big conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And so when we look at that and it's like, well, she
, I'm just this little smallbusiness owner and I just have
my little thing going over here,How, how am I going to get
there?
And, and I think moreimportantly, do I even want to?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Probably not, in all honesty, right, i would much
prefer somebody have 1000 truefans, the people that they
really want to engage with, then100,000 random people, right?
Unless you want to be aninfluencer, that that's your
business.
But obviously most of ourclients that's not the case And
(05:21):
just most people generally.
I don't think you need to be aninfluencer to succeed.
In fact, i mean, i would saythat I have.
What do I have?
I don't even know.
I have close to 7000 peoplefollowing me on LinkedIn And and
because I do it strategically,i'm able to get clients from
that, and that, to me, is thepoint.
I think the first reading thingis that so many people go on
(05:44):
social media because they thinkkind of what you just said,
because they think they have to,or worse, they should be doing
it, and so they post without aplan And it's not interesting to
anybody, so people ignore it.
And if people don't engage, thealgorithm ignores you.
And if the algorithm ignoresyou, then nobody sees your
(06:04):
content anyways, and it's justthis terrible kind of self
fulfilling prophecy that youbelieve that it's not going to
do anything And then it doesn't.
I see it a lot And it's prettyfrustrating.
It's like I get why people youknow just give up and throw in
the proverbial towel.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Right, okay.
So let's imagine that someonehas come to you And they've
either just thrown in the towelor they're or they're standing
on the edge of the cliff readyto jump and go look, i'm out of
here, i'm never going to do thisagain.
So how do you pull them off theedge and say okay, look, here's
how we're going to do thisstrategically?
What are the steps that thatyou help people walk through?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, the steps that I think everyone should take,
whether they work with somebodylike me or not.
I think that everybody shouldfirst kind of slow down for a
second.
I mean, it's very exciting toput things on social media and
you just keep posting and keepposting.
So, rather than do that, take astep back and really get clear
on who it is you're wanting totalk to, and then, once you know
(07:09):
who you want to talk to, thenit's really understanding, it's
really brand strategy, right.
It's understanding what you dothat can help them.
So the biggest issue that I seeis that people talk about
themselves and what they want totell people, but it's really
not about you.
It's about what your personwants to hear, because those are
(07:31):
the kind of pieces of contentthat people are going to engage
with.
So you step back and you getclear on those questions And
then you can really make astrategy so you can understand
when your people are online.
Where they're online, peoplecome to us and they're spending
a ton of money paying for adswhich you know I think people
(07:51):
should do organic first andpaying for ads on places like
Facebook, but none of theirclients, none of their ideal
people, are on Facebook.
They're all on LinkedIn becausethey didn't take the time to
figure out where their peoplehang out.
It's answering all of thosebranding questions first and
then starting to create amessage, and then that's why we
(08:14):
think you should pre plan 30days out so that you can lay out
a content strategy where youkind of divide and conquer in
terms of your content.
So sometimes it's educational,sometimes it's sharing an
opinion, sometimes it's beingcontroversial And occasionally,
very occasionally, it's selling.
(08:35):
Social media, i think peopleneed to understand, is mostly
about brand building andreputation building, and then
you're able to build theserelationships so that eventually
it becomes a sale.
But selling people, you know bynow, by now, by now, if that's
your only message on socialmedia, you won't make any sales
(08:57):
And that's a problem that we seepeople coming with.
They're either don't know whatto post, so they're posting what
they had for dinner, which ismy favorite target because it
makes me crazy Or or they'retrying to sell constantly, and
you know sales has its place,But if you do it constantly,
nobody's going to buy from you.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, i had a really interesting guest on several
weeks ago.
His name is Rob Gilbert Andhe's someone who I met on
LinkedIn And his whole thing.
The whole.
The whole episode was aboutscrew your funnel and build a
rocket ship instead, and so whathe was talking about was NASA
doesn't do anything to recruittheir astronauts.
(09:39):
They don't ever try to sellanybody on how to become an
astronaut.
What they do is they go intospace and they do really cool
space stuff, right, like travelto the moon No, yes, and they
broadcast it live, you know, andthey say, look, we're here and
there's no gravity and this isawesome.
And then every little kid whosees that goes I want to be an
(10:02):
astronaut.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That's exactly what you want to do on social media.
You want to be irresistible,right.
Tell your story And then peoplewho identify with that story
will follow you and they'llengage with you.
That's what people need to do,and they just don't slow down
long enough to think about that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right, right, and even sort of behind the scenes
content, and when you're talkingabout including controversial
things, if you have this strongpoint of view or my favorite
kind of content is what I callmyth busting, oh yes.
So you come in like you knowthat your target audience has
some conventional wisdom or someyou know doing things the way
(10:44):
it's always been done or the waythey've always been taught.
That really needs to bereadjusted, and so if you can
come in and help people shiftthat perspective, it's really
powerful to them and they'llstart going oh wow, interesting.
You changed my mind, so Ibetter pay attention.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And people will pay attention to you.
And then I would also say thesecret to success online is
engagement.
So you're going to want toengage with your ideal people
when they for sure, when theypost or comment on your post,
but then also find them whenthey're in a conversation with
another person.
(11:24):
So a lot of times, peoplefollow these big influencers
that you're talking about andthey engage in these hundreds of
comments that the influencersget And start a conversation
with those people, becausethat's how you're building your
own reputation And really you'repiggybacking off of the
reputation of the influencers.
It's a little like insidersecret of a way to get some
(11:47):
traction online.
Do that, but don't be obnoxiousabout it.
We have a conversation,Absolutely, And I always tell
(12:52):
people to think of social mediaas a giant dinner party.
So you wouldn't go to a dinnerparty and only talk about your
well, I hope you wouldn't andonly talk about yourself And you
wouldn't go and just say buy myproduct, buy my product, buy my
product.
You'd actually engage in aconversation and speak to
someone like they're human.
(13:13):
And that's what you do online,Because you're talking to other
people and you're buildingrelationships with other people.
Yeah, that's what you need todo.
Think of them as other people.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Right, talk to people as if they're human.
That's a good one, right Right.
They're not numbers, they'renot customers.
I mean, i think that's what'swrong with a lot of the funnel
builders attitude out there.
You know, you're looking forlarge numbers and kind of
cramming them into this spaceand then putting them on this
manipulative landing page that'sgoing to make a promise that is
(13:49):
like to the moon and back, andyou're talking about your leads
and you're talking about yournumbers and you're talking about
your conversions and it's alljust math.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It is And it's super important.
I mean there is a place for allof that.
But in terms of not burning outon social media, you need to
remember that you're talking topeople And then think of it as
relationship building and engagewith people and have
conversations so that you can dothat, so that ultimately you
can put them in a funnel and youcan sell to them and track the
(14:20):
numbers.
But it's just not.
It's not.
I mean not to pick on used carsalesman, but it's not a used
cars, i mean, it's relationshipbuilding.
That's what sales is And youhave to.
There's an old sales adage thatpeople only buy from people that
they know, like and trust.
And if you can't show someonewhy they should know, like and
(14:43):
trust you, they're never goingto buy from you.
And it's never been more truethan in this world of social
media, because there are allthese people who are promising
the moon And you have to be realAnd I think that's I mean not
to veer to another subject, butI think that that's actually
really hard for people, reallyhard for people over 40.
I think we were taught to havethis kind of facade of
(15:04):
professionalism and how you'resupposed to be, and people have
a really hard time being realAnd and that's what they need to
do, so maybe I shouldn't givethem such a hard time for
talking about what they had fordinner.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, it's okay to bring in some personal anecdotes
, especially if you can, youknow, make the connection with
your audience and some sort ofyou know, business or work
related lesson when you sharethose anecdotes.
There's, if you're telling Ireally like the storyteller,
matthew Dix, and his method ofcoming up with stories is well,
(15:42):
if you're going to tell a story,there needs to be a moment of
transformation in that story Andthat's why you tell it.
It's not just what you had forbreakfast, it's that you had
breakfast at this beautifulplace and the sun was coming up
and what happened?
you know, something happenedthere that changed you And you
can share that so that in thatprocess, people will be changed.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Exactly And think of it.
I mean again, think of it asyou're at a cocktail party or a
dinner party.
I mean you would tell a storythat people the person sitting
next to you would, i hope,actually want to hear, and a
story that has transformation, astory that is inspiring to them
or leads to conversation.
I think when you're tellingyour own story, do that.
(16:25):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, okay, well, just let's just touch on this.
When you talked about, you know, people over 40, like that's me
too, and certainly a lot of myclients.
A lot of the people that Iattract are my peers and they're
my age and they're mygeneration And We are basically
in the camp of being digitalimmigrants.
And so, when it comes toeverything to do with the online
(16:51):
world and social media, it'sthis constant feeling like, oh
my gosh, i have to keep tryingto catch up That and the status
that we might have had in thepre-digital world.
You know, when you hit 40 inthe olden days, you were
becoming a master.
You were kind of like theperson who was like okay, you
(17:12):
have all this wisdom and stuffto share.
Well, something happened whenFacebook and Instagram appeared,
these young kids who were like20 and hadn't even graduated
from college became the businesssuperheroes of our world and
everybody's paying attention andlistening to them And they look
at you know anyone who's like50 and they go.
(17:33):
You can't know anything becauseyou're just too old.
You can't possibly understandany of this stuff because you're
the wrong generation, and soit's like all the experience and
all the things that we bringcounts for zilch.
You know, here we sit going.
Oh my gosh, what do we do Like?
(17:53):
how do we come into this worldand connect with people online
who are looking at us going?
well, what do you know?
What can you teach me?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, and I think, i think the obvious answer is the
experience hasn't gone away.
And the truth is he can't be anexpert in anything the first
day you're doing it, and it wasamazing what, you know, mark
Zuckerberg and people like thatdid, and they were 20 years old.
I mean, bill Gates wasn't mucholder when he started Microsoft
(18:24):
in the 70s.
I mean, i think that it's true,or maybe it's early 80s Don't
quote me on Microsoft historyBut the experience, the
knowledge, the wisdom has notgone away.
It's just a different way totell the story.
So we're in, you know, so I'min Gen X, right, and so in the
(18:45):
90s I guess, maybe late 90s,early 2000s people started
getting flip phones And you know, then we had palm pilots and
whatever else was out there.
So there's always been thissort of technology, but there
hasn't been.
But you're right, it's changed.
And so I think that, as I justsaid and I'm repeating myself,
but just said that there's adifferent way of telling the
(19:08):
story.
So once you might have had anewspaper article in print or
you might have gone and done the30 second speech at a
networking event, you know, youused to stand up and give out
business cards and tell your 30second story.
Now you're doing that.
You're just doing it online andyou really have an opportunity
to talk to a wider audience.
(19:30):
But you have to take thatopportunity and you have to do
it again in a strategic way, sothat you have a plan and you go
to the place where your audienceis and you engage with them
with an interesting story Andyou create a relationship with
them, exactly how we did inperson and exactly how we did
(19:53):
kind of the old ways.
It's just online and it does.
It scares people, but itshouldn't.
So that's kind of my personalmission for people over 40,
because I think they're, theythink it's scary and they'll be
discounted And that's just notthe case.
But you have to step out and doit.
(20:15):
I mean, i'm not going to saythere's not ageism, absolutely,
but if you step out and do it,you might be surprised.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, i agree.
I mean, one of the things thatI've found to be really
transferable is, you know theway pre pandemic I haven't cut
up with the same level ofparticipation as I did before.
I'm going to conferences, say,or going to large gatherings,
big events, but whenever I wentto a big event in any time up to
(20:44):
2020, my attitude about it was,well, there's gonna be whatever
thousand people there, somelarge number, and instead of
running around and trying tomeet like tons of people, i'd be
like, well, I know this is myintention, i know I'm gonna meet
one person at this event andwe're gonna become really good
friends and that friendship isgonna last for years.
(21:07):
It's gonna be something thatwe'll just meet and we'll
connect and I'm gonna have a newfriend And with that intention,
pretty much that alwayshappened And sometimes maybe it
was more than one, but this wasmy measure of success, like if
that's what happened, if I madea new friend at a relationship,
(21:28):
no matter what else, no matterwhat the other outcomes, the
business outcomes, the referrals, all that kind of stuff none of
that really mattered as much asthis.
And I think approaching theinternet like, say, here on
LinkedIn, we can be here.
It's like a giant, never-endingnetworking conference.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
It's a conference every day, right?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, and so if you can sort of pare it down to like
, well, whatever timeframe youwant, like each week, if I meet
someone new who then we startconnecting and over time we
become friends and I build a newrelationship with this person,
then that's pretty successfulAnd it's much easier and cheaper
(22:10):
than going to a conference.
Ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Much easier and cheaper, and way fewer passing
out business card moments.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But I do encourage people, when they come to me and
they wanna build a personalbrand, i tell them that they
should, once they've identified,answered all the kind of
branding and brand strategyquestions that I started with,
to reach out to at least 20people a day, because building a
relationship on LinkedIn you'reright, it really is just an
(22:39):
everyday conference and aneveryday dinner party.
So reach out to new peopleevery day to start to build
relationships And I can't say itenough times don't sell when
you're doing that.
Reach out like a person and sayI'm just building a community
of like-minded people and I'dlike to connect with you and
(22:59):
learn more from you, and mostpeople will connect with you.
And then you get to know themand then you do exactly what you
did in conferences for thefirst three pandemic You make
friends, you build relationshipsand that leads to business
growth.
It's a slower process thanpeople would like to have, but
it's a more human, real processAnd I think that's the big tip
(23:22):
for people over 40 is beingonline is exactly like being in
person.
It's just a bigger group ofpeople and you have to stand out
from the crowd, and there werestrategic ways to do that, just
like you would do in a bigconference And you're saving all
that plain money to go to Idon't know typically Orlando.
It feels like They're probablyin Orlando.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah right, Orlando, Las, Vegas, San Diego.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, those kind of places.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Those places where it's always happening Exactly.
The show never ends, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean I'm sorry to all the event planners out there
, but really you can do itwithout leaving your chair.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You can, yeah, And in fact I think that in some ways,
the pandemic has really helpedus, because it forced people to
connect virtually in a way thatthey never were before, And so
all of us are now.
We're meeting on Zoom calls andwe're going to virtual events,
and it makes it possible to doon a very regular basis and
(24:25):
people like in my world I'mhelping people do video
marketing and getting theirbrand out via video, And tons of
people who absolutely refusedto get on camera up until about
three years ago.
Now it's like totally the newnormal.
It's like, yeah, okay, well,I've been.
You know, every week I get onZoom one way or the other.
(24:47):
I can't avoid it.
So it's in some ways, you know,we've just been forced into
this new way of operating, whichcan be, you know, there's
definitely pros and cons to it,but in many ways it can be quite
healthy.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Oh, I think it is.
We would have never met.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Right, precisely Right.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I mean, i think that it's a big world and this just
opens it up.
So I definitely encouragepeople, no matter what their age
is, to jump in there and telltheir story, because, you're
right, that's what I did as anattorney, that's what I do now,
and it's how they can build abusiness or build whatever they
want to build.
It doesn't have to be abusiness You choose.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Right, there you go, just jump right in there, tell
your story.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Tell your story, but do it strategically or it'll get
lost.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Right, there you go, all right.
Well, i think that's a reallygreat note for us to close on.
Yeah, this was a really good atleast start at this
conversation And I appreciateyou coming on.
And so, if people are going,well, i'm ready, i'm ready to be
pulled back off the cliff.
I want to cure my social mediaillness and they want to get
(26:04):
ahold of you, pam.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Well, i'd love it if you reached out on LinkedIn.
Feel free to DM me.
You can find me either at AOUCreative or at Pam I think it's
Pamela Parker Foley JD onLinkedIn.
Or feel free to email me at Pamat AOUcreativecom, and I'd be
happy to chat about it.
(26:28):
I love these kind ofconversations, so feel free,
i'll help you.
Come off the side.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's so great.
All right, well, this has beena great conversation.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Thanks for having me, brad, it was great.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And if you're listening at the end, I just
want to remind you that if you'dlike to go and get all of the
episodes of the StandoutBusiness Show, just go to
standoutbusinessshowcom and youwill find all the audio, all the
video, all the show notes andlots of other little doodas in
there And you can subscribe sothat you never miss another
(27:07):
episode.
So thanks for tuning in and wewill see you next time.
So long.
I always tell people to think of social media as a
giant dinner party.
So you wouldn't go to a dinnerparty and only talk about your I
hope you wouldn't and only talkabout yourself and you wouldn't
go and just say, buy my product, buy my product, buy my product
.
You'd actually engage in aconversation and speak to
someone like they're human.
(00:23):
And that's what you do online,because you're talking to other
people and you're buildingrelationships with other people.
Yeah, that's what you need todo.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the standout business show.
I'm Brad Powell, and today weare asking the question are you
sick of social media?
And if you are, is there anykind of cure out there?
The big, big promise of theinternet when the internet
arrived and some of us, myselfincluded, are old enough to
(00:57):
remember when that happened Thispromise was that the internet,
and then following social media,was going to level the playing
field for everybody.
You know anyone who wants tocan now reach.
You know the entire, you knowthe whole wide world with their
message.
But here we go, like noweveryone who has anything to say
(01:20):
is doing this online, and so wehave to contend with this huge
cacophony of voices and mediocrecontent and self-indulgent
influencers who are postingselfies and on and on and on.
This begs the question how doyou cut through all that noise
(01:42):
and manage to stand out onlinethese days with all of this?
How do you avoid blending inBut at the same time, if you're
trying to show up with any levelof consistency, how do you
avoid the burnout that comesfrom being constantly online?
to help us figure this out, totry and find a cure, i've
(02:04):
invited Pamela Foley onto thestandout business show and Pam
runs her own digital marketingagency where she helps women
over 40 be seen and be heardonline, so I think she's going
to be a great person to talkabout this.
She is a former attorney, soshe knows how to cut through the
(02:25):
BS, which she can be concise,clear and persuasive.
You know imagine in thecourtroom how you have to do
that, so I think this is goingto be great.
We're going to take a deep divein how you can get over your
social media malaise And withthat let's start the show.
(02:46):
Pam, welcome to the show,thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That was quite the introduction.
I'm excited to talk about it,right?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, to start, let's just agitate the problem a
little bit.
So, for you on a personal level, and also what you see going
with your clients, how would youdescribe the social media
malaise that we seem to bedealing with?
you know, all over the place.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I think actually sort of along what you were just
saying in your introduction.
I think that part of the issueis there's so much content out
there that and algorithms insocial media are designed to
show you such a narrow segmentof your people that most people,
(03:39):
when they post on social media,if they don't do it
strategically, then reallythey're being ignored, And so it
feels like a waste of time Andyou know you can only see how
much or what people are havingfor dinner so many times before.
you just don't care anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right, yeah, for sure , yeah, okay, so, and then
there's also, i would describe,a kind of mindset issue, which
is that first, you know, firstof all, because of all the
things that we're seeing, we getinto this comparison game where
you see all these people doingone thing or another And it's,
you know anything from.
They're leading a wonderfullife, because they seem to be
(04:20):
always on the beach somewhere ina tropical place.
Or we see, like, say, onLinkedIn, where I'm pretty
active, you see these folks andthey've amassed, you know,
150,000 people who are followingthem, and when they post a
piece of content, within likethe first hour, it's getting
hundreds of comments, not justlikes, but they're sort of
(04:43):
generating this big conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And so when we look at that and it's like, well, she
, I'm just this little smallbusiness owner and I just have
my little thing going over here,How, how am I going to get
there?
And, and I think moreimportantly, do I even want to?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Probably not, in all honesty, right, i would much
prefer somebody have 1000 truefans, the people that they
really want to engage with, then100,000 random people, right?
Unless you want to be aninfluencer, that that's your
business.
But obviously most of ourclients that's not the case And
(05:21):
just most people generally.
I don't think you need to be aninfluencer to succeed.
In fact, i mean, i would saythat I have.
What do I have?
I don't even know.
I have close to 7000 peoplefollowing me on LinkedIn And and
because I do it strategically,i'm able to get clients from
that, and that, to me, is thepoint.
I think the first reading thingis that so many people go on
(05:44):
social media because they thinkkind of what you just said,
because they think they have to,or worse, they should be doing
it, and so they post without aplan And it's not interesting to
anybody, so people ignore it.
And if people don't engage, thealgorithm ignores you.
And if the algorithm ignoresyou, then nobody sees your
(06:04):
content anyways, and it's justthis terrible kind of self
fulfilling prophecy that youbelieve that it's not going to
do anything And then it doesn't.
I see it a lot And it's prettyfrustrating.
It's like I get why people youknow just give up and throw in
the proverbial towel.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Right, okay.
So let's imagine that someonehas come to you And they've
either just thrown in the towelor they're or they're standing
on the edge of the cliff readyto jump and go look, i'm out of
here, i'm never going to do thisagain.
So how do you pull them off theedge and say okay, look, here's
how we're going to do thisstrategically?
What are the steps that thatyou help people walk through?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, the steps that I think everyone should take,
whether they work with somebodylike me or not.
I think that everybody shouldfirst kind of slow down for a
second.
I mean, it's very exciting toput things on social media and
you just keep posting and keepposting.
So, rather than do that, take astep back and really get clear
on who it is you're wanting totalk to, and then, once you know
(07:09):
who you want to talk to, thenit's really understanding, it's
really brand strategy, right.
It's understanding what you dothat can help them.
So the biggest issue that I seeis that people talk about
themselves and what they want totell people, but it's really
not about you.
It's about what your personwants to hear, because those are
(07:31):
the kind of pieces of contentthat people are going to engage
with.
So you step back and you getclear on those questions And
then you can really make astrategy so you can understand
when your people are online.
Where they're online, peoplecome to us and they're spending
a ton of money paying for adswhich you know I think people
(07:51):
should do organic first andpaying for ads on places like
Facebook, but none of theirclients, none of their ideal
people, are on Facebook.
They're all on LinkedIn becausethey didn't take the time to
figure out where their peoplehang out.
It's answering all of thosebranding questions first and
then starting to create amessage, and then that's why we
(08:14):
think you should pre plan 30days out so that you can lay out
a content strategy where youkind of divide and conquer in
terms of your content.
So sometimes it's educational,sometimes it's sharing an
opinion, sometimes it's beingcontroversial And occasionally,
very occasionally, it's selling.
(08:35):
Social media, i think peopleneed to understand, is mostly
about brand building andreputation building, and then
you're able to build theserelationships so that eventually
it becomes a sale.
But selling people, you know bynow, by now, by now, if that's
your only message on socialmedia, you won't make any sales
(08:57):
And that's a problem that we seepeople coming with.
They're either don't know whatto post, so they're posting what
they had for dinner, which ismy favorite target because it
makes me crazy Or or they'retrying to sell constantly, and
you know sales has its place,But if you do it constantly,
nobody's going to buy from you.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, i had a really interesting guest on several
weeks ago.
His name is Rob Gilbert Andhe's someone who I met on
LinkedIn And his whole thing.
The whole.
The whole episode was aboutscrew your funnel and build a
rocket ship instead, and so whathe was talking about was NASA
doesn't do anything to recruittheir astronauts.
(09:39):
They don't ever try to sellanybody on how to become an
astronaut.
What they do is they go intospace and they do really cool
space stuff, right, like travelto the moon No, yes, and they
broadcast it live, you know, andthey say, look, we're here and
there's no gravity and this isawesome.
And then every little kid whosees that goes I want to be an
(10:02):
astronaut.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That's exactly what you want to do on social media.
You want to be irresistible,right.
Tell your story And then peoplewho identify with that story
will follow you and they'llengage with you.
That's what people need to do,and they just don't slow down
long enough to think about that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right, right, and even sort of behind the scenes
content, and when you're talkingabout including controversial
things, if you have this strongpoint of view or my favorite
kind of content is what I callmyth busting, oh yes.
So you come in like you knowthat your target audience has
some conventional wisdom or someyou know doing things the way
(10:44):
it's always been done or the waythey've always been taught.
That really needs to bereadjusted, and so if you can
come in and help people shiftthat perspective, it's really
powerful to them and they'llstart going oh wow, interesting.
You changed my mind, so Ibetter pay attention.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And people will pay attention to you.
And then I would also say thesecret to success online is
engagement.
So you're going to want toengage with your ideal people
when they for sure, when theypost or comment on your post,
but then also find them whenthey're in a conversation with
another person.
(11:24):
So a lot of times, peoplefollow these big influencers
that you're talking about andthey engage in these hundreds of
comments that the influencersget And start a conversation
with those people, becausethat's how you're building your
own reputation And really you'repiggybacking off of the
reputation of the influencers.
It's a little like insidersecret of a way to get some
(11:47):
traction online.
Do that, but don't be obnoxiousabout it.
We have a conversation,Absolutely, And I always tell
(12:52):
people to think of social mediaas a giant dinner party.
So you wouldn't go to a dinnerparty and only talk about your
well, I hope you wouldn't andonly talk about yourself And you
wouldn't go and just say buy myproduct, buy my product, buy my
product.
You'd actually engage in aconversation and speak to
someone like they're human.
(13:13):
And that's what you do online,Because you're talking to other
people and you're buildingrelationships with other people.
Yeah, that's what you need todo.
Think of them as other people.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Right, talk to people as if they're human.
That's a good one, right Right.
They're not numbers, they'renot customers.
I mean, i think that's what'swrong with a lot of the funnel
builders attitude out there.
You know, you're looking forlarge numbers and kind of
cramming them into this spaceand then putting them on this
manipulative landing page that'sgoing to make a promise that is
(13:49):
like to the moon and back, andyou're talking about your leads
and you're talking about yournumbers and you're talking about
your conversions and it's alljust math.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It is And it's super important.
I mean there is a place for allof that.
But in terms of not burning outon social media, you need to
remember that you're talking topeople And then think of it as
relationship building and engagewith people and have
conversations so that you can dothat, so that ultimately you
can put them in a funnel and youcan sell to them and track the
(14:20):
numbers.
But it's just not.
It's not.
I mean not to pick on used carsalesman, but it's not a used
cars, i mean, it's relationshipbuilding.
That's what sales is And youhave to.
There's an old sales adage thatpeople only buy from people that
they know, like and trust.
And if you can't show someonewhy they should know, like and
(14:43):
trust you, they're never goingto buy from you.
And it's never been more truethan in this world of social
media, because there are allthese people who are promising
the moon And you have to be realAnd I think that's I mean not
to veer to another subject, butI think that that's actually
really hard for people, reallyhard for people over 40.
I think we were taught to havethis kind of facade of
(15:04):
professionalism and how you'resupposed to be, and people have
a really hard time being realAnd and that's what they need to
do, so maybe I shouldn't givethem such a hard time for
talking about what they had fordinner.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Well, it's okay to bring in some personal anecdotes
, especially if you can, youknow, make the connection with
your audience and some sort ofyou know, business or work
related lesson when you sharethose anecdotes.
There's, if you're telling Ireally like the storyteller,
matthew Dix, and his method ofcoming up with stories is well,
(15:42):
if you're going to tell a story,there needs to be a moment of
transformation in that story Andthat's why you tell it.
It's not just what you had forbreakfast, it's that you had
breakfast at this beautifulplace and the sun was coming up
and what happened?
you know, something happenedthere that changed you And you
can share that so that in thatprocess, people will be changed.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Exactly And think of it.
I mean again, think of it asyou're at a cocktail party or a
dinner party.
I mean you would tell a storythat people the person sitting
next to you would, i hope,actually want to hear, and a
story that has transformation, astory that is inspiring to them
or leads to conversation.
I think when you're tellingyour own story, do that.
(16:25):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, okay, well, just let's just touch on this.
When you talked about, you know, people over 40, like that's me
too, and certainly a lot of myclients.
A lot of the people that Iattract are my peers and they're
my age and they're mygeneration And We are basically
in the camp of being digitalimmigrants.
And so, when it comes toeverything to do with the online
(16:51):
world and social media, it'sthis constant feeling like, oh
my gosh, i have to keep tryingto catch up That and the status
that we might have had in thepre-digital world.
You know, when you hit 40 inthe olden days, you were
becoming a master.
You were kind of like theperson who was like okay, you
(17:12):
have all this wisdom and stuffto share.
Well, something happened whenFacebook and Instagram appeared,
these young kids who were like20 and hadn't even graduated
from college became the businesssuperheroes of our world and
everybody's paying attention andlistening to them And they look
at you know anyone who's like50 and they go.
(17:33):
You can't know anything becauseyou're just too old.
You can't possibly understandany of this stuff because you're
the wrong generation, and soit's like all the experience and
all the things that we bringcounts for zilch.
You know, here we sit going.
Oh my gosh, what do we do Like?
(17:53):
how do we come into this worldand connect with people online
who are looking at us going?
well, what do you know?
What can you teach me?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, and I think, i think the obvious answer is the
experience hasn't gone away.
And the truth is he can't be anexpert in anything the first
day you're doing it, and it wasamazing what, you know, mark
Zuckerberg and people like thatdid, and they were 20 years old.
I mean, bill Gates wasn't mucholder when he started Microsoft
(18:24):
in the 70s.
I mean, i think that it's true,or maybe it's early 80s Don't
quote me on Microsoft historyBut the experience, the
knowledge, the wisdom has notgone away.
It's just a different way totell the story.
So we're in, you know, so I'min Gen X, right, and so in the
(18:45):
90s I guess, maybe late 90s,early 2000s people started
getting flip phones And you know, then we had palm pilots and
whatever else was out there.
So there's always been thissort of technology, but there
hasn't been.
But you're right, it's changed.
And so I think that, as I justsaid and I'm repeating myself,
but just said that there's adifferent way of telling the
(19:08):
story.
So once you might have had anewspaper article in print or
you might have gone and done the30 second speech at a
networking event, you know, youused to stand up and give out
business cards and tell your 30second story.
Now you're doing that.
You're just doing it online andyou really have an opportunity
to talk to a wider audience.
(19:30):
But you have to take thatopportunity and you have to do
it again in a strategic way, sothat you have a plan and you go
to the place where your audienceis and you engage with them
with an interesting story Andyou create a relationship with
them, exactly how we did inperson and exactly how we did
(19:53):
kind of the old ways.
It's just online and it does.
It scares people, but itshouldn't.
So that's kind of my personalmission for people over 40,
because I think they're, theythink it's scary and they'll be
discounted And that's just notthe case.
But you have to step out and doit.
(20:15):
I mean, i'm not going to saythere's not ageism, absolutely,
but if you step out and do it,you might be surprised.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, i agree.
I mean, one of the things thatI've found to be really
transferable is, you know theway pre pandemic I haven't cut
up with the same level ofparticipation as I did before.
I'm going to conferences, say,or going to large gatherings,
big events, but whenever I wentto a big event in any time up to
(20:44):
2020, my attitude about it was,well, there's gonna be whatever
thousand people there, somelarge number, and instead of
running around and trying tomeet like tons of people, i'd be
like, well, I know this is myintention, i know I'm gonna meet
one person at this event andwe're gonna become really good
friends and that friendship isgonna last for years.
(21:07):
It's gonna be something thatwe'll just meet and we'll
connect and I'm gonna have a newfriend And with that intention,
pretty much that alwayshappened And sometimes maybe it
was more than one, but this wasmy measure of success, like if
that's what happened, if I madea new friend at a relationship,
(21:28):
no matter what else, no matterwhat the other outcomes, the
business outcomes, the referrals, all that kind of stuff none of
that really mattered as much asthis.
And I think approaching theinternet like, say, here on
LinkedIn, we can be here.
It's like a giant, never-endingnetworking conference.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
It's a conference every day, right?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, and so if you can sort of pare it down to like
, well, whatever timeframe youwant, like each week, if I meet
someone new who then we startconnecting and over time we
become friends and I build a newrelationship with this person,
then that's pretty successfulAnd it's much easier and cheaper
(22:10):
than going to a conference.
Ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Much easier and cheaper, and way fewer passing
out business card moments.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But I do encourage people, when they come to me and
they wanna build a personalbrand, i tell them that they
should, once they've identified,answered all the kind of
branding and brand strategyquestions that I started with,
to reach out to at least 20people a day, because building a
relationship on LinkedIn you'reright, it really is just an
(22:39):
everyday conference and aneveryday dinner party.
So reach out to new peopleevery day to start to build
relationships And I can't say itenough times don't sell when
you're doing that.
Reach out like a person and sayI'm just building a community
of like-minded people and I'dlike to connect with you and
(22:59):
learn more from you, and mostpeople will connect with you.
And then you get to know themand then you do exactly what you
did in conferences for thefirst three pandemic You make
friends, you build relationshipsand that leads to business
growth.
It's a slower process thanpeople would like to have, but
it's a more human, real processAnd I think that's the big tip
(23:22):
for people over 40 is beingonline is exactly like being in
person.
It's just a bigger group ofpeople and you have to stand out
from the crowd, and there werestrategic ways to do that, just
like you would do in a bigconference And you're saving all
that plain money to go to Idon't know typically Orlando.
It feels like They're probablyin Orlando.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah right, Orlando, Las, Vegas, San Diego.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, those kind of places.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Those places where it's always happening Exactly.
The show never ends, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean I'm sorry to all the event planners out there
, but really you can do itwithout leaving your chair.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You can, yeah, And in fact I think that in some ways,
the pandemic has really helpedus, because it forced people to
connect virtually in a way thatthey never were before, And so
all of us are now.
We're meeting on Zoom calls andwe're going to virtual events,
and it makes it possible to doon a very regular basis and
(24:25):
people like in my world I'mhelping people do video
marketing and getting theirbrand out via video, And tons of
people who absolutely refusedto get on camera up until about
three years ago.
Now it's like totally the newnormal.
It's like, yeah, okay, well,I've been.
You know, every week I get onZoom one way or the other.
(24:47):
I can't avoid it.
So it's in some ways, you know,we've just been forced into
this new way of operating, whichcan be, you know, there's
definitely pros and cons to it,but in many ways it can be quite
healthy.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Oh, I think it is.
We would have never met.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Right, precisely Right.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I mean, i think that it's a big world and this just
opens it up.
So I definitely encouragepeople, no matter what their age
is, to jump in there and telltheir story, because, you're
right, that's what I did as anattorney, that's what I do now,
and it's how they can build abusiness or build whatever they
want to build.
It doesn't have to be abusiness You choose.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Right, there you go, just jump right in there, tell
your story.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Tell your story, but do it strategically or it'll get
lost.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Right, there you go, all right.
Well, i think that's a reallygreat note for us to close on.
Yeah, this was a really good atleast start at this
conversation And I appreciateyou coming on.
And so, if people are going,well, i'm ready, i'm ready to be
pulled back off the cliff.
I want to cure my social mediaillness and they want to get
(26:04):
ahold of you, pam.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Well, i'd love it if you reached out on LinkedIn.
Feel free to DM me.
You can find me either at AOUCreative or at Pam I think it's
Pamela Parker Foley JD onLinkedIn.
Or feel free to email me at Pamat AOUcreativecom, and I'd be
happy to chat about it.
(26:28):
I love these kind ofconversations, so feel free,
i'll help you.
Come off the side.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's so great.
All right, well, this has beena great conversation.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Thanks for having me, brad, it was great.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And if you're listening at the end, I just
want to remind you that if you'dlike to go and get all of the
episodes of the StandoutBusiness Show, just go to
standoutbusinessshowcom and youwill find all the audio, all the
video, all the show notes andlots of other little doodas in
there And you can subscribe sothat you never miss another
(27:07):
episode.
So thanks for tuning in and wewill see you next time.
So long.
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