April 29, 2024 • 44 mins
“Laugh and the world laughs with you”. Or “Laughter is the best medicine”. These two sayings tout the power of humor.
There is something to be said about capturing your audience’s attention by infusing stories with humor. If it makes sense, incorporating a theme or light tone is one of the quickest ways to strike a connection with your audience.
In this episode, we welcomed our friend, Scott MacNeil, a Stand-Up Comedian and self-proclaimed one-liner, who has performed with such comedic greats as Emo Philips, Kevin Farley, and Gilbert Gottfried. We got the chance to catch up and chat about becoming a successful comedian, the different styles of comedy that deliver the best storylines, and what it takes to be funny.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
I think it was in my early 20s when I was living with my parents in southern Florida
down near Naples and on the late night TV I would see Stephen Wright or Emo Phillips
(00:34):
and I just love those cerebral kind of twists and I never really gave much thought as to
where these people were or where they were from and I grew up myself in Lexington, Mass
and that wasn't until some years later I moved back up here that I learned that Stephen
(00:57):
Wright grew up in Burlington, one town over from me of all places so I've kind of admired
his humor from afar but I never really studied you know people's backgrounds or I just plain
like the material.
So I've been a bit too much of a hermit in my life and a lot of comedians are known for
(01:20):
being kind of somewhat recluses and it was, I actually remember the date, December 15th
2008 Stephen Wright was receiving an award, it was some sort of comedy hall of fame which
I guess physically doesn't exist but he was a patriot place at Foxborough and a lot of
(01:48):
the New England comedy legends were there and it was being hosted by Tony V but the
other such people as Steve Sweeney and Lenny Clark and Jimmy Tangle and I don't even remember
the whole but there were a lot of people that were there and this was relatively small venue
like 140 people and I'm like you know what I never get out of the house I don't stray
(02:10):
that far from home and I just went by myself and I really enjoyed it, they all took turns
performing and when it concluded it kind of ties in with my semi-fascination with human
(02:30):
behavior including my own where it's almost like a bit of an exaggeration really a cattle
stampede of people leaving and I don't know if I had known of the term Comic Con but I'm
like there are people who would pay just to be here and meet these people and I'm like
I'm not leaving there's nobody waiting at home and I'm not in a rush so I said hello
(02:56):
to Stephen Wright, I think I'd met him once before and some other comedians and I went
over to Tony V who had hosted and I didn't know that it was kind of taboo to go especially
a professional comedian going like I've got some jokes to tell you or here are some jokes
(03:17):
you might want to use well they're in the profession jokes are what they do all day
long they probably are not looking for any and if they didn't write it and especially
if you don't own it and you can't sell it to them they really don't want to hear it
so he's very polite and I told him a few jokes and he said those are really good I wish I
(03:43):
could remember what they were I just remember there were three of them and he said those
are really good jokes he said but I haven't heard them where did you get them from I
said I didn't get them from anywhere I wrote them he said you wrote those and I've never
been a person really built on self-esteem and I'm like I didn't think that much of
it and he said I'd like you to call my friend at Giggles Dan and Saga some route one and
(04:06):
tell him I want you on the open mic show and I was almost speechless because I would love
to do that it's almost like saying hey I would like you to be a rock star but have no real
official training or know what to do on stage and I contacted them and I think the thing
(04:34):
that was coming up was two months away and everybody was going to be doing five minutes
which felt like forever I don't know didn't know anything about putting together a comedy
set or any of it and I was just like I think a lot of people would picture I was just a
nervous wreck for like a month and I went to an office of Pleistone I got these big white
(05:02):
boards to write on and I just put together a set which I asked him it was like 19 jokes
and I had a friend designated to sit up front and hold them up even though and no one else
was doing that and it was what they call a bringer and I had to have at least four friends
(05:28):
and I've learned a lot of things like we were using the expression a moment ago learning
things the hard way don't tell other don't tell your friends you're all set you've got
a lot of people because they won't go so I don't remember the number but I had a comfortable
number of people showing up to be much more than four and I'm sitting there with three
(05:48):
friends and some of the time you can't go on until you have at least the fourth one
elderly gentleman I know showed up wearing a cowboy hat kind of a silly goofy guy and
easily hey guys what's up I'm like what's up as you just saved the day and I didn't do
very well on stage it felt more like a surgery than anything enjoyable and the next day I
(06:15):
got an email from them they said you you already write on a professional level we know someone
who would like to buy your material and I guess I went from low self-esteem to have
a bit of an ego and I'm like I'd rather keep it for myself and that was really getting
my feet wet I really didn't shop around to do comedy elsewhere I was thinking like a
(06:39):
lot of employers they don't want to catch you working for the competition and when I
turn on the TV I want to hear new jokes I might enjoy some old ones but I like to hear
something new so after performing at giggles maybe a few times in a year because they didn't
(07:02):
have the open mic very often it doesn't exist there anymore I mean they have comedy but
no more open mic and I didn't know it was a very prestigious place it's difficult to
get a spot to perform at and people like you started at giggles and I'm like why and they're
like it's crazy that no one starts there so the gentleman who runs the shows is Mike Clark
(07:26):
and he took me aside one day and he said what are you doing I said what do you mean he said
you you're here every couple of months or so and we're hearing all new material and
it's really not polished and then you come back again and it's more new material again
(07:46):
and he said you don't understand we basically want you working for the competition so you
get better and get out there and get more well known and polish what you have and that's
what beginning comics usually do is they go for they call it tight five five minutes and
you keep working on polishing it so I didn't know I'd be kind of popular because I'm a
(08:09):
lot of people refer to me as clean and clever I don't swear on stage I love to play with
words and I really try not to offend people and it's mostly been a fun experience but
there's a lot to it.
(08:51):
Hello my name is Leanna Henry and welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a Markham and project management firm headquartered on
the east coast of the US and quaint colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
We've named ourselves Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish story.
(09:14):
The moral of the Starfish story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
One step, one starfish or one story at a time.
Every episode we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
(09:35):
So thanks for tuning in now let's get started.
Today's episode is about delivering humor stories through stand-up comedy and with me
today is my friend Scott McNeil.
He's a stand-up comedian and self-proclaimed one-liner.
He started his comedy career in his 40s and he's performed with such comedians as Emil
Phillips and Kevin Farley and is open for a number of other well-known comedians like
(09:57):
Gilbert Godfrey, Lenny Clark, Tony V, Kenny Rodgerson and Frank Santarelli among others.
He's one replaced in several comedy contests across New England and has even starred in
an online commercial.
We met when I was the publisher of the Bill Rooker Green News magazine and we featured
you and your extensive fan collection of the classic fan The Doors but I've been following
(10:19):
your comedy career on social media for some time.
So it's great to see you again and catch up.
Likewise so so exciting and fun to be here.
Thanks for being here.
So your story did tell us a lot about your beginnings but I didn't know if you wanted
to add anything for our listeners about introducing yourself.
Oh absolutely there's always more to add to a story.
(10:39):
One of the things that I've learned is what they call editing and that can mean all sorts
of things in different businesses but ideally a comic will go to an open mic night or a
kind of a more informal place and video themselves because when someone's on stage even if they've
(10:59):
been doing it for a while they might have habits they're not aware of looking the wrong
way or doing something with their hands and distracting people.
But also too it's listening for the audience reaction because that's really what it comes
down to and one of the many rules of thumbs they have in comedy is even if you love a
(11:20):
joke that you wrote if it's not hitting it with the audience it's out and even if you're
been telling a joke for 15 years and you're tired of it if the audience still loves it
it stays in.
And another part of it too is they say of course you want to close with your best joke
(11:42):
and they say to open with your second best.
But sometimes someone was pointing out to me that not only to end with my best but I could
take some of my better jokes and have like a rapid fire of three or four of them at the
end so it goes better or good, better, best, fantastic and then it leaves that impression
(12:02):
that you want.
And then you're off.
I really appreciated your story of how you got started.
I'm familiar with giggles and I think that's wonderful that you got to get a start there.
We've talked about storytellers and comedians.
Comedians are the funniest storytellers of all.
(12:25):
But like you're going to talk about today and like you've already shared so far becoming
a great stand-up comic is not easy.
There's a lot that goes into it.
I've read that comedians have to become like the masters of word play and they have to
have razor sharp wit and they have to have expert timing and sets have to be relatable
(12:45):
because you want to get the biggest laughs out of people.
Speaking to this sort of what does a comedian need to be able to be successful?
What other things can you think of that are needed?
One of the ingredients that I was not aware of is that like I was saying, you take a five
minute set and start to polish it.
(13:08):
How you tell it where to pause and sometimes to like be one key word that you withhold
which will be the punchline that might give it like a 180 type of spin.
But those are so some acting in it too where the illusion of spontaneity.
Can you talk about that because you know we had a phone call, you brought that up and
(13:32):
I thought that was a really interesting concept and I don't know if people really know that
that's what goes on.
It's almost like giving away a magic trick I think anyway but it's kind of pretending
that while you're on stage you tell a joke maybe and then snap your fingers.
Oh it reminds me of this other thing but not remind you of anything.
This is the next joke you were going to tell anyways and you've been telling it for five
(13:56):
or ten years.
So a lot of people, one person I'd kind of like to meet that I have is Jeff Foxworthy
and I think he's great at just pretending he's just coming up with everything off the
cuff.
I never really followed Robin Williams but I would think he would be one of the few exemptions
(14:22):
that he probably was off the cuff where his mind was just racing and he probably couldn't
even talk fast enough to say all the stuff that was going on in his head and that's very
unusual.
Most everything is very carefully rehearsed and practiced and by the time you see someone
who's a professional especially a brand name person they've examined the material, they've
(14:46):
looked at the joke as to how to edit it.
Could it say is or and at this point or that type of thing.
It's almost like a surgeon putting together a sentence and facial expressions trying to,
I love to mislead people.
I like to take linear thinking that usually goes in this direction and play around with
(15:11):
it.
And then not signal when turning.
Right.
Just turn and.
We're like whoop whoop.
I had a funny moment I think it was 2011.
I was in North Andover.
I don't know if I'd shared it but I kind of give a version of it.
But it's a true story.
I used to have an opening joke and I'm not a brand name comic.
(15:34):
So people, when they introduced me people just clapped and I put my hand over my heart.
I genuinely mean it.
But also to, I told the audience I said thank you.
And they said every time I do stand up I'm excited and nervous.
And I said on top of this I'm excited and nervous too because I'm about to become a father
for the first time.
(15:55):
So they all clapped.
And I told them thank you of course.
I'm very excited about the baby but I'm extra nervous because I haven't told my wife yet.
And of course it's fake.
Myself I've never married.
I have no children.
(16:17):
And usually a professional show is an opener like myself 15 minutes and a feature act for
a half hour.
And then a headliner for usually at least 45 minutes.
So the show ended and people were leaving and this lady came over.
Let's see I was probably early 50s and I think she was a few years older than me.
(16:39):
She came over to me with a big smile and she said we had a great time.
We hadn't been out to comedy before we really enjoyed it.
You were funny and the other comics were funny too.
I want to take a moment and say congratulations.
And they said thanks but for what?
And she pointed to the stage she said you know the baby.
(17:00):
I'm like thanks but there's no baby.
And she's like no you were the one.
I remember you were the one that said you're about to become a father for the first time.
And she didn't get it.
And I said that's true.
I did say it as a comedian and a tiny people but and her eyes went wide like a child and
she said are you telling me you guys just make stuff up?
(17:22):
Oh she didn't know.
I was like I told her there's no Easter Bunny.
Actually there is an Easter Bunny but it would be as if I didn't tell her there wasn't one.
And she just looked leveled.
Oh no.
I wasn't about to become a father and there was no wife at home.
One said I should have just let it go and say ask her her name and say well actually
(17:43):
we're expecting a girl so we'll name her after you.
But you know that's a hindsight thing that didn't.
But I'm friendly now with Stephen right.
I get to he lets me come backstage every few years and hang out for 10 or 15 minutes and
I told him that story.
He was almost in tears.
I was surprised he said I've never ever heard of anyone thinking anything we said on stage
(18:08):
is real.
And sometimes it is.
But it's a weird game.
For sure.
For sure.
When we were talking about you coming on the show we were comparing storytellers and comedians
and you said I'm more of a one liner.
And you know a one liner joke is deliberate.
(18:29):
It's concise.
It's meaningful.
But you know I'd still argue that jokes have a narrative structure because I've seen your
sets so you know you see in your set up you have this and then you go into sort of this
dialogue sometimes between you and somebody else and then the punchline which is literally
the humorous ending of your short story.
But when you call yourself a one liner and not much of a storyteller what does that mean
(18:52):
to you like in comedy what's the difference.
Well to me a storyteller and I agree with it they're both kind of different versions
of storytelling but the other type of comedy is I can't think of a real example but like
I say a comedian does a bit about I need to go to the supermarket to pick up a half gallon
(19:16):
of milk which should be a simple thing.
Supermarkets nearby not a very exciting story but they make it interesting.
I couldn't find my keys.
I asked my wife she took my keys to work by accident and it's like a series of jokes
within a story and I also think it's an easier type of style of comedy to memorize because
(19:38):
you are telling a longer story that take little detours of problems and complications that
can be funny whereas each joke I tell is a joke within itself.
It's a standalone.
But standalone and the next joke I tell you probably has no connection or relation to
(20:03):
the other one I just told you.
And in fact when I came back from because I took a break like a lot of people when the
pandemic hit and I was reorganizing my set because I would have it I try to group like
two or three jokes together like these are relationships.
(20:24):
These are jokes about codependences jokes about work exercise.
So my set was just kind of thrown together without organizing it that way.
And I get the impression the audience seem to like it more like we have no idea what
kind of crazy bizarre thing this guy is going to say next.
(20:46):
So I'm like so far I've been kind of successful with that.
Yeah I've been kind of going more in that direction but it's for me I have lots and
lots of material I told I've been told I'm very prolific in some other comic struggle
to come up with jokes where I almost have too many I might have a few thousands.
(21:09):
And the first time I opened for Gilbert Godfrey I worked with him twice.
And I didn't even have a count on how many jokes it took me five months to memorize that
set so I could do 26 minutes.
And it was 64 jokes and 64 jokes have nothing to do with each other.
But for me it's like memorizing the alphabet.
(21:30):
It's like ABCDFG but why are they in that order?
I have no idea why ABCD is in that order but it just is.
And that's how it should stay.
So if you asked me to tell my set out of order.
It wasn't going to work.
No.
No.
I mean I don't know if they're just floating in the air there.
They're well rehearsed.
Yeah.
(21:50):
Yeah.
You know when I think about the storytelling on stage I remember this one comedian.
I couldn't tell you the joke but he had this whole storyline around this air conditioner.
I think we saw him down at like what's the theater next to the Wang?
That's not the Emerson.
I can't remember.
I don't know that area.
(22:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Down in that area.
It's like right next door to it.
The Wilbur.
Oh, okay.
It was at the Wilbur.
And he had this whole storyline around this air conditioner and he looped the whole story
back around to the air conditioner but it like what you were just saying it started with
like dragging it out and then his wife and then his daughter came in the room and then
(22:33):
there was something going on in the household and then he left the house and then but he
pointed out to somebody about the air conditioner and it was like it was sort of this like satisfying
end like when he got to the end you're like, aha, you know, I caught on to that.
So like what you were talking about sort of the how order is really important to sets.
(22:58):
Well, there's another part that might interest you is when I'm dating myself I can't think
of the current shows but like with Letterman and Leno and Jimmy Kimmel are failing.
The primary thing for getting on those shows is actually not being funny.
(23:20):
It's knowing your time, being funny is secondary.
So you have to know probably without looking at your watch exactly how much time you've
done and these people probably done their sets so many times they pretty much know exactly
like Tony V.
He doesn't need a watch.
(23:42):
If you interrupted him on stage which he wouldn't want, you could say, you know, how long you've
been up there?
He's like, I've been up here 18 and a half minutes and if your time is pretty, pretty
down close to right on that.
So when you're on a TV show like that, there's lots of competition to get that spot but if
you have no idea the difference between four and a half minutes, five minutes, six or seven,
(24:07):
you never get, if you have people falling down on the floor rolling around, you will
not be on that show unless you know your time somehow.
And I heard the story of Jeff Foxworthy, I don't know why I mention him so much, I do
like him, but he was on one of those shows and one of the jokes got a bigger reaction
(24:29):
than he had hoped for and it ate up more of his time.
So while he's talking on stage, his brain is editing out things not to say so that he
still falls at exactly seven minutes or whatever they hired him for.
And Jay Leno, there's a story about him, I don't know if you mind me throwing him,
(24:50):
Jay Leno, apparently later in years, I don't know what year, but after he was well known
performing in a famous casino in Las Vegas and I think they hired him for an hour and
he did an hour and two minutes and they were furious with him.
And even though he was famous, they took him aside and they said, we have everything set
(25:16):
up here to make money, the temperature, the room, the humidity, whatever music or sound
effects are, you know, they have everything figured out there and they said, we estimate
it was something like I'm kind of making it up and it was something like we make about
$50,000 a minute.
You went over by two minutes, you cost us $100,000, you're lucky we don't take that money
(25:39):
from you.
Don't do it again.
So it's that, I think that's one of those things that people watching comedy would not
guess.
You wouldn't know that that's an issue.
And in general, if you're doing a professional show, whatever time you're giving, don't fall
too short because they're counting on you to do whatever it is and don't go over.
(26:04):
Wow.
It's really important.
You know, I do a public speaking class and one of the parts of that, I tell people, you
know, when you're invited to be a keynote or you're invited to be a speaker, you need
to respect your hosts and understand what is the time slot you're given and speak only
(26:29):
for that time slot because you're a guest.
You know, and I would think it's the same thing.
It's like, this is our club, you know, you're here, you know, this is the time you're given,
stick to your time.
And when I started every once in a while a friend would want to come along with me.
And I just, hypothetically, if it's an eight o'clock show, I'm like, all right, I want
(26:51):
to be there about seven.
And then while I say, well, we could stop for supper on the way, we could get there
at 10, you know, five minutes of eight.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
They want to check me off that I'm there.
They just want to know I'm on the property.
I didn't get a flat tire.
There's no excuses.
And I need to rub elbows with them.
You know, I can't, I'm not, we're not going, you're going to watch the show.
(27:14):
I'm in the show.
It's very different.
It's a job.
Yeah.
And like, and then they're surprised, well, this is kind of boring.
It's a job.
It's not, you know, we have to hang out here, even though there's nothing going on or sometimes
the booker is like, you know, they need to focus in on something else.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a job.
It's a job like any other job.
(27:38):
You know, we were talking about sort of preparing before you get on stage.
Now, you're talking about time right now, but, you know, I'm thinking about routine
and travel and, I mean, there's a lot of things that go into being able to, before
you even set foot on that stage to perform that you have to consider.
(28:01):
So when we talk about routine, what is your process for developing one?
Like how do you come?
I know that we talked about sort of 64 jokes that don't tie in at all.
Like how do you come up with those?
Are those pretty much just life?
And then what other things are you factoring in and planning for?
Like you just said just now, I'm going to get there at seven for an eight o'clock show
(28:24):
because I, it's my job and I need to be, you know, clocking in, you know, in a sense.
So what are the things are you, you know, doing for your routines and then what other
things are you factoring in and planning for?
Well, part of it too depends on how far away the gig is because I might not want to drive
an hour and a half wearing my show clothes.
(28:44):
It might be summer, I might want to wear shorts and I don't want to wrinkle up my good clothes.
And basically these places don't have a room to change.
They just have the regular restroom that everybody's using and they can't tie it up.
So that's one factor.
But I think as someone moves along, you want to get up, the more time you can do, the better.
(29:10):
So if you're only there to do 10 minutes, if you can do 15, that's even once in a while
just show up and the book is like, someone forgot to come, they're supposed to do five
minutes, can you do another five?
And if you waited till that moment, unless you can have lib, which most people cannot,
(29:33):
you're out of luck, you blew it.
So it's like being prepared well before, months before that show or any show, just to be able
to do as much time as possible and do it well.
I guess one of the things I'm thinking as you ask the question, like when you see a
sign out in front of a place that says open mic night, it's kind of a misnomer because
(29:59):
a lot of them are booked way ahead of time.
It makes it sound like you walk in that night, hey, I'm John Smith, Jane Smith, where do
I sign up?
And like, well, the person might not even be there to connect with, but it could be weeks
or a couple of months away to get onto that stage.
(30:19):
So it's kind of a misnomer that way.
Yeah.
Where do your jokes come from?
I think a lot of comics ask me, when do I write?
And I'm like, I have a mind that just doesn't shut off.
I find as I listen to people, I like to think I'm a good listener.
I've done prove wrong sometimes, but it's like my mind is working at listening to you.
(30:43):
There's another part of my mind, like how could I misunderstand what she's saying?
Because there's a lot of humor in that.
And a lot of times too, I'll hear something that, in my mind, I'm like, this would be
a funny punchline, and I'll build the joke backwards and then tell it forwards.
(31:04):
And I think a lot of people try to write forwards and tell them forwards, and they're like,
can't do it.
And I'm like, I don't know if I can write forwards so well, but, or like a lot of homonyms, words
that sound similar.
It's like these two topics have nothing to do with them, but it's like an art to try
to weave them together into some sort of misunderstanding.
Yeah.
(31:25):
Interesting.
Interesting.
Interesting.
We also talked about the written word versus the spoken word and how sometimes the written
word isn't going to translate very well out of mic.
(31:46):
When you write as a writer, you can tend to write in a very formal fashion where once
you're on a mic, and I learned this from being on the moth stage, it needs to be more conversational.
It needs to feel more conversational.
So you must maybe write down, write your jokes out, or plan them out.
(32:08):
But what do you have to do to tweak them to turn them into that finished product so that
it's going to work at the mic?
I think I'm kind of lucky because usually when I write them, the first draft is the
final draft.
I usually don't rewrite them.
But sometimes I'll think, oh, this could be a little twist.
I try not to have too big of an ego that I'm like, yeah, I suppose it could be a little
(32:31):
better this way or that way.
But you're right, it is kind of like a conversation.
And I think too, sometimes when a comic talks to someone in the audience, usually they're
looking for a yes or a no.
(32:54):
If the comic goes too far and becomes crowd work, and crowd work is usually not.
What is crowd work?
Crowd work is where you start a conversation with somebody in the audience.
And it's usually frowned upon because if you're not the headliner, the people in the audience
are like, oh, this comic is talking with us, all the comics after them, we can talk with
(33:16):
them too.
So they feel like it's an open door, and it can really sabotage the following comedians
behind you.
And also the booker will probably say, don't do that here again.
Like they don't allow it, basically, at giggles, no crowd work.
It rule of thumb.
So question for you.
I'm going to interrupt for a second.
So you're talking about crowd work.
(33:37):
You're talking about somebody who's talking with the audience.
You were talking earlier about watching your time.
Is that something that people factor into their routine and is like, OK, I'm going to
start a conversation with a couple of people in the front row, and I need to spend three
(33:59):
minutes doing that before I go on to it.
Is that the illusion of spontaneity, or is it actually they're just not good at it with
their time?
I think once someone works at it, you pretty much know how much time it would take.
And once in a while, you get hired to do a 20-minute set.
(34:22):
But it's also factoring in pauses.
Like I was saying, hopefully they all start to laugh, and there's a curve where it goes
up, and then as it drops off, they go into the next joke.
But sometimes I've said some very stoic audiences who just silent.
And they're appreciating it, but they're not laughing.
And I just run through my material, and the next thing I know, I'm at 16 minutes and I'm
(34:46):
out of material because there's no laughter pauses.
And I wish I'd written it down, but I had an audience of like, I think it was like 35
people, it was quite a few years ago, and they just sat there blank, expressionless with
their arms folded.
And it felt brutal because a lot of like, am I not telling them right?
(35:10):
Did someone just die before I got here and I didn't know about this tragic news?
Or what's going on?
And then when the show ended, I came in like three or five different people came over and
they're like, I had a great time, you are hilarious.
And I'm like, what the heck is that?
That's so, they're so contained.
(35:30):
And it's like each audience is, I've had it where I've done the same material at different
clubs and one place they go crazy and the next place is like, ah, you're all right.
It's like, it really, it's a combination, I think, of being an art and a science and
still being baffling.
Do you think that there's just certain crowds that frequent certain venues?
(35:52):
And I asked that question for two experiences that I had.
Then I went to a comedy show New Year's Eve and the audience were pretty much around my
age.
It seemed like that it wasn't a bunch of 20-somethings, it was a bunch of people in, you know, 40s
and 50s.
And the comedians were awesome.
(36:12):
There was three of them and they nailed it and they were, their sets were so relevant
to the crowd.
Like the crowd could relate and the things that they said, they were just awesome.
They was dying and it was an out loud, very loud laughter.
Then I think about, and it was up in the Phoenician in Haverhill, Mass.
(36:35):
Then I think about this place that I went one time, it wasn't for a comedy show, but
it was some place near Salisbury, Hampton or whatever, it was a smaller venue.
It wasn't like the big club that bands go to on Hampton Beach, but it was like some
other smaller club.
Maybe the Winner's Circle.
It was something small, it might have been like Salisbury or Amesbury and it was Survivor.
(36:59):
And I went in, we went in and it was all tables and chairs, like tables.
And they were on a kind of a small stage which seemed like Survivor on a small stage, like
is this what we've been reduced to?
For our age group?
And nobody got up and clapped and nobody was dancing in the aisles, everybody sat in their
(37:19):
chairs.
They were clapped, but it was a really subdued crowd.
And I felt so bad for the performers because I felt like, I mean, you must be used to working
in arenas where people are on their feet and cheering.
So do you think that a venue, like do they prep you at all?
(37:43):
What to expect with the crowd ever?
And or do you think like certain venues are just going to have certain types of crowds
coming in?
I think the only thing in that case would be is if I'm getting booked for a show a couple
months ahead, it's going to be this type of crowd.
They'll tell you that?
It's like, well, these are going to be older people, they're going to be kind of this type
(38:05):
of thing.
But usually there's not a lot of instruction.
It's like I usually get booked based on who I am or what I've, nobody's usually said,
I want you to tell these jokes and not those jokes.
But like I've done quite a few things that are benefits, but a lot of times I've been
(38:26):
selfish.
I'm like, I want to perform, I want to get out there.
But I'm like, well, someone is going, usually for a benefit, somebody's going through something
pretty bad.
And I've been learning recently, I'm like, well, who are they?
What is their story?
What are they going through?
And sometimes I'll go over the other comics and I'm like, well, this person's seriously
(38:51):
battling cancer.
So let's be aware of that.
And once in a while, some of those people aren't there because they're too ill to make it,
but it's still a benefit for them.
But especially if they're present, I want to respect whatever they're going through.
Right, right.
And I might edit it.
But I don't have anything that really attacks anybody.
(39:13):
People ask me about being heckled.
And I'm like, I've only been heckled like once.
I was by someone who's very drunk and didn't know what was going on.
How do comedians handle that when somebody's heckling them?
Well, I've taken some workshops and they say to kind of mentally have like three insults
in your back pocket.
And if someone is like deliberately, they're not just like, hey, I love your humor or some
(39:40):
little like a one or two word thing, you know, punctuating, I like that joke.
Yeah, that's what to me, that's not heckling.
But when someone's like some if you're riding a bicycle and someone sticks it, puts a stick
in your spokes, you go over the handlebars.
If it's that kind of interruption, that's heckling.
So what they say to do is to target them.
(40:01):
And also to it's a big audience.
If they send an insult to you, say it back into the microphone because the most of the
audience didn't hear the insult.
And it would look like a bad person is just targeting some random person and the audience
enjoying him.
So you repeat, you let the audience know this is what they just said to me, maybe with some
(40:21):
expletives in it or whatever, that if that's what they used and then give them your response
to them, letting them know, this is my territory.
This is my time.
Behave yourself or this is.
And then the next insult, if they continue on is a more hurtful one.
(40:42):
And then the third one is like, decimate, you go for the throat.
And I had heard a rumor about George Carlin that I wish I knew what.
Can you imagine ever heckling him?
That would be suicide.
Well, there are some stupid people in the world.
Clearly.
But you don't want to look bad on stage and it's best to defer to the management to handle
(41:06):
a problem person.
So if he did a little interacting with somebody that wouldn't shut up and let him do his show,
I'm just going to make this up like bananas.
Like that was the key word.
It would be like, Mr., you're driving me bananas or whatever his key word was.
That was the signal for security to pretend that they had decided to remove the person.
(41:29):
But it was George telling them to get this person the hell out of here.
So I was like, well, it's pretty clever because it doesn't make him look so bad.
But what can I do?
Management decided they didn't want this person in here.
Yep.
And we're moving on with the show.
Because all those other people paid to be there.
And they came to see you.
And so, yeah.
Exactly.
(41:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very interesting.
When you write out your jokes or you rehearse them or you memorize them, do you find that
– are you at a stage now where you're delivering the same jokes the same way every
time or is there a – like is it varied?
Very little difference.
I think it's pretty much the same.
(42:10):
Pretty much word for word, which is – and I like to think I'm kind of like a word surgeon
where this is the way it should be.
I had a joke I did about perpetual care of cemeteries.
And that I was against it.
(42:33):
And there were some college students in the room.
And I said that I was against this perpetual care of cemeteries.
And I said, if I – I'm going to fight this till my last breath.
And if they want to cut that grass, they'll have to do it over my dead body.
And these college students came up to me and they're like, that joke is perfect.
(42:57):
They said it's exactly the right length.
It's got the right words that there's no words you should take out or add in.
They said it's just the way it should be.
And it's kind of funny because I would have never guessed that they would love that particular
joke.
Yeah.
There's value in that, for sure.
Well that's all the time we have for today.
(43:18):
I just want to thank you for being here and just sharing all the behind the scenes, literally,
of what it takes to be a comic.
And you know, just – you know, just all the stories that you shared of like all the
people that you've met and all the experiences that you've had, I think it's just – it's
(43:38):
going to be great for our listeners.
So thank you.
Thank you.
The time flew by.
It was a lot of fun.
Great to see you too.
Thank you.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime,
thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
(44:00):
Happy storytelling.
Music
.
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
I think it was in my early 20s when I was living with my parents in southern Florida
down near Naples and on the late night TV I would see Stephen Wright or Emo Phillips
(00:34):
and I just love those cerebral kind of twists and I never really gave much thought as to
where these people were or where they were from and I grew up myself in Lexington, Mass
and that wasn't until some years later I moved back up here that I learned that Stephen
(00:57):
Wright grew up in Burlington, one town over from me of all places so I've kind of admired
his humor from afar but I never really studied you know people's backgrounds or I just plain
like the material.
So I've been a bit too much of a hermit in my life and a lot of comedians are known for
(01:20):
being kind of somewhat recluses and it was, I actually remember the date, December 15th
2008 Stephen Wright was receiving an award, it was some sort of comedy hall of fame which
I guess physically doesn't exist but he was a patriot place at Foxborough and a lot of
(01:48):
the New England comedy legends were there and it was being hosted by Tony V but the
other such people as Steve Sweeney and Lenny Clark and Jimmy Tangle and I don't even remember
the whole but there were a lot of people that were there and this was relatively small venue
like 140 people and I'm like you know what I never get out of the house I don't stray
(02:10):
that far from home and I just went by myself and I really enjoyed it, they all took turns
performing and when it concluded it kind of ties in with my semi-fascination with human
(02:30):
behavior including my own where it's almost like a bit of an exaggeration really a cattle
stampede of people leaving and I don't know if I had known of the term Comic Con but I'm
like there are people who would pay just to be here and meet these people and I'm like
I'm not leaving there's nobody waiting at home and I'm not in a rush so I said hello
(02:56):
to Stephen Wright, I think I'd met him once before and some other comedians and I went
over to Tony V who had hosted and I didn't know that it was kind of taboo to go especially
a professional comedian going like I've got some jokes to tell you or here are some jokes
(03:17):
you might want to use well they're in the profession jokes are what they do all day
long they probably are not looking for any and if they didn't write it and especially
if you don't own it and you can't sell it to them they really don't want to hear it
so he's very polite and I told him a few jokes and he said those are really good I wish I
(03:43):
could remember what they were I just remember there were three of them and he said those
are really good jokes he said but I haven't heard them where did you get them from I
said I didn't get them from anywhere I wrote them he said you wrote those and I've never
been a person really built on self-esteem and I'm like I didn't think that much of
it and he said I'd like you to call my friend at Giggles Dan and Saga some route one and
(04:06):
tell him I want you on the open mic show and I was almost speechless because I would love
to do that it's almost like saying hey I would like you to be a rock star but have no real
official training or know what to do on stage and I contacted them and I think the thing
(04:34):
that was coming up was two months away and everybody was going to be doing five minutes
which felt like forever I don't know didn't know anything about putting together a comedy
set or any of it and I was just like I think a lot of people would picture I was just a
nervous wreck for like a month and I went to an office of Pleistone I got these big white
(05:02):
boards to write on and I just put together a set which I asked him it was like 19 jokes
and I had a friend designated to sit up front and hold them up even though and no one else
was doing that and it was what they call a bringer and I had to have at least four friends
(05:28):
and I've learned a lot of things like we were using the expression a moment ago learning
things the hard way don't tell other don't tell your friends you're all set you've got
a lot of people because they won't go so I don't remember the number but I had a comfortable
number of people showing up to be much more than four and I'm sitting there with three
(05:48):
friends and some of the time you can't go on until you have at least the fourth one
elderly gentleman I know showed up wearing a cowboy hat kind of a silly goofy guy and
easily hey guys what's up I'm like what's up as you just saved the day and I didn't do
very well on stage it felt more like a surgery than anything enjoyable and the next day I
(06:15):
got an email from them they said you you already write on a professional level we know someone
who would like to buy your material and I guess I went from low self-esteem to have
a bit of an ego and I'm like I'd rather keep it for myself and that was really getting
my feet wet I really didn't shop around to do comedy elsewhere I was thinking like a
(06:39):
lot of employers they don't want to catch you working for the competition and when I
turn on the TV I want to hear new jokes I might enjoy some old ones but I like to hear
something new so after performing at giggles maybe a few times in a year because they didn't
(07:02):
have the open mic very often it doesn't exist there anymore I mean they have comedy but
no more open mic and I didn't know it was a very prestigious place it's difficult to
get a spot to perform at and people like you started at giggles and I'm like why and they're
like it's crazy that no one starts there so the gentleman who runs the shows is Mike Clark
(07:26):
and he took me aside one day and he said what are you doing I said what do you mean he said
you you're here every couple of months or so and we're hearing all new material and
it's really not polished and then you come back again and it's more new material again
(07:46):
and he said you don't understand we basically want you working for the competition so you
get better and get out there and get more well known and polish what you have and that's
what beginning comics usually do is they go for they call it tight five five minutes and
you keep working on polishing it so I didn't know I'd be kind of popular because I'm a
(08:09):
lot of people refer to me as clean and clever I don't swear on stage I love to play with
words and I really try not to offend people and it's mostly been a fun experience but
there's a lot to it.
(08:51):
Hello my name is Leanna Henry and welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a Markham and project management firm headquartered on
the east coast of the US and quaint colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
We've named ourselves Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish story.
(09:14):
The moral of the Starfish story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
One step, one starfish or one story at a time.
Every episode we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
(09:35):
So thanks for tuning in now let's get started.
Today's episode is about delivering humor stories through stand-up comedy and with me
today is my friend Scott McNeil.
He's a stand-up comedian and self-proclaimed one-liner.
He started his comedy career in his 40s and he's performed with such comedians as Emil
Phillips and Kevin Farley and is open for a number of other well-known comedians like
(09:57):
Gilbert Godfrey, Lenny Clark, Tony V, Kenny Rodgerson and Frank Santarelli among others.
He's one replaced in several comedy contests across New England and has even starred in
an online commercial.
We met when I was the publisher of the Bill Rooker Green News magazine and we featured
you and your extensive fan collection of the classic fan The Doors but I've been following
(10:19):
your comedy career on social media for some time.
So it's great to see you again and catch up.
Likewise so so exciting and fun to be here.
Thanks for being here.
So your story did tell us a lot about your beginnings but I didn't know if you wanted
to add anything for our listeners about introducing yourself.
Oh absolutely there's always more to add to a story.
(10:39):
One of the things that I've learned is what they call editing and that can mean all sorts
of things in different businesses but ideally a comic will go to an open mic night or a
kind of a more informal place and video themselves because when someone's on stage even if they've
(10:59):
been doing it for a while they might have habits they're not aware of looking the wrong
way or doing something with their hands and distracting people.
But also too it's listening for the audience reaction because that's really what it comes
down to and one of the many rules of thumbs they have in comedy is even if you love a
(11:20):
joke that you wrote if it's not hitting it with the audience it's out and even if you're
been telling a joke for 15 years and you're tired of it if the audience still loves it
it stays in.
And another part of it too is they say of course you want to close with your best joke
(11:42):
and they say to open with your second best.
But sometimes someone was pointing out to me that not only to end with my best but I could
take some of my better jokes and have like a rapid fire of three or four of them at the
end so it goes better or good, better, best, fantastic and then it leaves that impression
(12:02):
that you want.
And then you're off.
I really appreciated your story of how you got started.
I'm familiar with giggles and I think that's wonderful that you got to get a start there.
We've talked about storytellers and comedians.
Comedians are the funniest storytellers of all.
(12:25):
But like you're going to talk about today and like you've already shared so far becoming
a great stand-up comic is not easy.
There's a lot that goes into it.
I've read that comedians have to become like the masters of word play and they have to
have razor sharp wit and they have to have expert timing and sets have to be relatable
(12:45):
because you want to get the biggest laughs out of people.
Speaking to this sort of what does a comedian need to be able to be successful?
What other things can you think of that are needed?
One of the ingredients that I was not aware of is that like I was saying, you take a five
minute set and start to polish it.
(13:08):
How you tell it where to pause and sometimes to like be one key word that you withhold
which will be the punchline that might give it like a 180 type of spin.
But those are so some acting in it too where the illusion of spontaneity.
Can you talk about that because you know we had a phone call, you brought that up and
(13:32):
I thought that was a really interesting concept and I don't know if people really know that
that's what goes on.
It's almost like giving away a magic trick I think anyway but it's kind of pretending
that while you're on stage you tell a joke maybe and then snap your fingers.
Oh it reminds me of this other thing but not remind you of anything.
This is the next joke you were going to tell anyways and you've been telling it for five
(13:56):
or ten years.
So a lot of people, one person I'd kind of like to meet that I have is Jeff Foxworthy
and I think he's great at just pretending he's just coming up with everything off the
cuff.
I never really followed Robin Williams but I would think he would be one of the few exemptions
(14:22):
that he probably was off the cuff where his mind was just racing and he probably couldn't
even talk fast enough to say all the stuff that was going on in his head and that's very
unusual.
Most everything is very carefully rehearsed and practiced and by the time you see someone
who's a professional especially a brand name person they've examined the material, they've
(14:46):
looked at the joke as to how to edit it.
Could it say is or and at this point or that type of thing.
It's almost like a surgeon putting together a sentence and facial expressions trying to,
I love to mislead people.
I like to take linear thinking that usually goes in this direction and play around with
(15:11):
it.
And then not signal when turning.
Right.
Just turn and.
We're like whoop whoop.
I had a funny moment I think it was 2011.
I was in North Andover.
I don't know if I'd shared it but I kind of give a version of it.
But it's a true story.
I used to have an opening joke and I'm not a brand name comic.
(15:34):
So people, when they introduced me people just clapped and I put my hand over my heart.
I genuinely mean it.
But also to, I told the audience I said thank you.
And they said every time I do stand up I'm excited and nervous.
And I said on top of this I'm excited and nervous too because I'm about to become a father
for the first time.
(15:55):
So they all clapped.
And I told them thank you of course.
I'm very excited about the baby but I'm extra nervous because I haven't told my wife yet.
And of course it's fake.
Myself I've never married.
I have no children.
(16:17):
And usually a professional show is an opener like myself 15 minutes and a feature act for
a half hour.
And then a headliner for usually at least 45 minutes.
So the show ended and people were leaving and this lady came over.
Let's see I was probably early 50s and I think she was a few years older than me.
(16:39):
She came over to me with a big smile and she said we had a great time.
We hadn't been out to comedy before we really enjoyed it.
You were funny and the other comics were funny too.
I want to take a moment and say congratulations.
And they said thanks but for what?
And she pointed to the stage she said you know the baby.
(17:00):
I'm like thanks but there's no baby.
And she's like no you were the one.
I remember you were the one that said you're about to become a father for the first time.
And she didn't get it.
And I said that's true.
I did say it as a comedian and a tiny people but and her eyes went wide like a child and
she said are you telling me you guys just make stuff up?
(17:22):
Oh she didn't know.
I was like I told her there's no Easter Bunny.
Actually there is an Easter Bunny but it would be as if I didn't tell her there wasn't one.
And she just looked leveled.
Oh no.
I wasn't about to become a father and there was no wife at home.
One said I should have just let it go and say ask her her name and say well actually
(17:43):
we're expecting a girl so we'll name her after you.
But you know that's a hindsight thing that didn't.
But I'm friendly now with Stephen right.
I get to he lets me come backstage every few years and hang out for 10 or 15 minutes and
I told him that story.
He was almost in tears.
I was surprised he said I've never ever heard of anyone thinking anything we said on stage
(18:08):
is real.
And sometimes it is.
But it's a weird game.
For sure.
For sure.
When we were talking about you coming on the show we were comparing storytellers and comedians
and you said I'm more of a one liner.
And you know a one liner joke is deliberate.
(18:29):
It's concise.
It's meaningful.
But you know I'd still argue that jokes have a narrative structure because I've seen your
sets so you know you see in your set up you have this and then you go into sort of this
dialogue sometimes between you and somebody else and then the punchline which is literally
the humorous ending of your short story.
But when you call yourself a one liner and not much of a storyteller what does that mean
(18:52):
to you like in comedy what's the difference.
Well to me a storyteller and I agree with it they're both kind of different versions
of storytelling but the other type of comedy is I can't think of a real example but like
I say a comedian does a bit about I need to go to the supermarket to pick up a half gallon
(19:16):
of milk which should be a simple thing.
Supermarkets nearby not a very exciting story but they make it interesting.
I couldn't find my keys.
I asked my wife she took my keys to work by accident and it's like a series of jokes
within a story and I also think it's an easier type of style of comedy to memorize because
(19:38):
you are telling a longer story that take little detours of problems and complications that
can be funny whereas each joke I tell is a joke within itself.
It's a standalone.
But standalone and the next joke I tell you probably has no connection or relation to
(20:03):
the other one I just told you.
And in fact when I came back from because I took a break like a lot of people when the
pandemic hit and I was reorganizing my set because I would have it I try to group like
two or three jokes together like these are relationships.
(20:24):
These are jokes about codependences jokes about work exercise.
So my set was just kind of thrown together without organizing it that way.
And I get the impression the audience seem to like it more like we have no idea what
kind of crazy bizarre thing this guy is going to say next.
(20:46):
So I'm like so far I've been kind of successful with that.
Yeah I've been kind of going more in that direction but it's for me I have lots and
lots of material I told I've been told I'm very prolific in some other comic struggle
to come up with jokes where I almost have too many I might have a few thousands.
(21:09):
And the first time I opened for Gilbert Godfrey I worked with him twice.
And I didn't even have a count on how many jokes it took me five months to memorize that
set so I could do 26 minutes.
And it was 64 jokes and 64 jokes have nothing to do with each other.
But for me it's like memorizing the alphabet.
(21:30):
It's like ABCDFG but why are they in that order?
I have no idea why ABCD is in that order but it just is.
And that's how it should stay.
So if you asked me to tell my set out of order.
It wasn't going to work.
No.
No.
I mean I don't know if they're just floating in the air there.
They're well rehearsed.
Yeah.
(21:50):
Yeah.
You know when I think about the storytelling on stage I remember this one comedian.
I couldn't tell you the joke but he had this whole storyline around this air conditioner.
I think we saw him down at like what's the theater next to the Wang?
That's not the Emerson.
I can't remember.
I don't know that area.
(22:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Down in that area.
It's like right next door to it.
The Wilbur.
Oh, okay.
It was at the Wilbur.
And he had this whole storyline around this air conditioner and he looped the whole story
back around to the air conditioner but it like what you were just saying it started with
like dragging it out and then his wife and then his daughter came in the room and then
(22:33):
there was something going on in the household and then he left the house and then but he
pointed out to somebody about the air conditioner and it was like it was sort of this like satisfying
end like when he got to the end you're like, aha, you know, I caught on to that.
So like what you were talking about sort of the how order is really important to sets.
(22:58):
Well, there's another part that might interest you is when I'm dating myself I can't think
of the current shows but like with Letterman and Leno and Jimmy Kimmel are failing.
The primary thing for getting on those shows is actually not being funny.
(23:20):
It's knowing your time, being funny is secondary.
So you have to know probably without looking at your watch exactly how much time you've
done and these people probably done their sets so many times they pretty much know exactly
like Tony V.
He doesn't need a watch.
(23:42):
If you interrupted him on stage which he wouldn't want, you could say, you know, how long you've
been up there?
He's like, I've been up here 18 and a half minutes and if your time is pretty, pretty
down close to right on that.
So when you're on a TV show like that, there's lots of competition to get that spot but if
you have no idea the difference between four and a half minutes, five minutes, six or seven,
(24:07):
you never get, if you have people falling down on the floor rolling around, you will
not be on that show unless you know your time somehow.
And I heard the story of Jeff Foxworthy, I don't know why I mention him so much, I do
like him, but he was on one of those shows and one of the jokes got a bigger reaction
(24:29):
than he had hoped for and it ate up more of his time.
So while he's talking on stage, his brain is editing out things not to say so that he
still falls at exactly seven minutes or whatever they hired him for.
And Jay Leno, there's a story about him, I don't know if you mind me throwing him,
(24:50):
Jay Leno, apparently later in years, I don't know what year, but after he was well known
performing in a famous casino in Las Vegas and I think they hired him for an hour and
he did an hour and two minutes and they were furious with him.
And even though he was famous, they took him aside and they said, we have everything set
(25:16):
up here to make money, the temperature, the room, the humidity, whatever music or sound
effects are, you know, they have everything figured out there and they said, we estimate
it was something like I'm kind of making it up and it was something like we make about
$50,000 a minute.
You went over by two minutes, you cost us $100,000, you're lucky we don't take that money
(25:39):
from you.
Don't do it again.
So it's that, I think that's one of those things that people watching comedy would not
guess.
You wouldn't know that that's an issue.
And in general, if you're doing a professional show, whatever time you're giving, don't fall
too short because they're counting on you to do whatever it is and don't go over.
(26:04):
Wow.
It's really important.
You know, I do a public speaking class and one of the parts of that, I tell people, you
know, when you're invited to be a keynote or you're invited to be a speaker, you need
to respect your hosts and understand what is the time slot you're given and speak only
(26:29):
for that time slot because you're a guest.
You know, and I would think it's the same thing.
It's like, this is our club, you know, you're here, you know, this is the time you're given,
stick to your time.
And when I started every once in a while a friend would want to come along with me.
And I just, hypothetically, if it's an eight o'clock show, I'm like, all right, I want
(26:51):
to be there about seven.
And then while I say, well, we could stop for supper on the way, we could get there
at 10, you know, five minutes of eight.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
They want to check me off that I'm there.
They just want to know I'm on the property.
I didn't get a flat tire.
There's no excuses.
And I need to rub elbows with them.
You know, I can't, I'm not, we're not going, you're going to watch the show.
(27:14):
I'm in the show.
It's very different.
It's a job.
Yeah.
And like, and then they're surprised, well, this is kind of boring.
It's a job.
It's not, you know, we have to hang out here, even though there's nothing going on or sometimes
the booker is like, you know, they need to focus in on something else.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a job.
It's a job like any other job.
(27:38):
You know, we were talking about sort of preparing before you get on stage.
Now, you're talking about time right now, but, you know, I'm thinking about routine
and travel and, I mean, there's a lot of things that go into being able to, before
you even set foot on that stage to perform that you have to consider.
(28:01):
So when we talk about routine, what is your process for developing one?
Like how do you come?
I know that we talked about sort of 64 jokes that don't tie in at all.
Like how do you come up with those?
Are those pretty much just life?
And then what other things are you factoring in and planning for?
Like you just said just now, I'm going to get there at seven for an eight o'clock show
(28:24):
because I, it's my job and I need to be, you know, clocking in, you know, in a sense.
So what are the things are you, you know, doing for your routines and then what other
things are you factoring in and planning for?
Well, part of it too depends on how far away the gig is because I might not want to drive
an hour and a half wearing my show clothes.
(28:44):
It might be summer, I might want to wear shorts and I don't want to wrinkle up my good clothes.
And basically these places don't have a room to change.
They just have the regular restroom that everybody's using and they can't tie it up.
So that's one factor.
But I think as someone moves along, you want to get up, the more time you can do, the better.
(29:10):
So if you're only there to do 10 minutes, if you can do 15, that's even once in a while
just show up and the book is like, someone forgot to come, they're supposed to do five
minutes, can you do another five?
And if you waited till that moment, unless you can have lib, which most people cannot,
(29:33):
you're out of luck, you blew it.
So it's like being prepared well before, months before that show or any show, just to be able
to do as much time as possible and do it well.
I guess one of the things I'm thinking as you ask the question, like when you see a
sign out in front of a place that says open mic night, it's kind of a misnomer because
(29:59):
a lot of them are booked way ahead of time.
It makes it sound like you walk in that night, hey, I'm John Smith, Jane Smith, where do
I sign up?
And like, well, the person might not even be there to connect with, but it could be weeks
or a couple of months away to get onto that stage.
(30:19):
So it's kind of a misnomer that way.
Yeah.
Where do your jokes come from?
I think a lot of comics ask me, when do I write?
And I'm like, I have a mind that just doesn't shut off.
I find as I listen to people, I like to think I'm a good listener.
I've done prove wrong sometimes, but it's like my mind is working at listening to you.
(30:43):
There's another part of my mind, like how could I misunderstand what she's saying?
Because there's a lot of humor in that.
And a lot of times too, I'll hear something that, in my mind, I'm like, this would be
a funny punchline, and I'll build the joke backwards and then tell it forwards.
(31:04):
And I think a lot of people try to write forwards and tell them forwards, and they're like,
can't do it.
And I'm like, I don't know if I can write forwards so well, but, or like a lot of homonyms, words
that sound similar.
It's like these two topics have nothing to do with them, but it's like an art to try
to weave them together into some sort of misunderstanding.
Yeah.
(31:25):
Interesting.
Interesting.
Interesting.
We also talked about the written word versus the spoken word and how sometimes the written
word isn't going to translate very well out of mic.
(31:46):
When you write as a writer, you can tend to write in a very formal fashion where once
you're on a mic, and I learned this from being on the moth stage, it needs to be more conversational.
It needs to feel more conversational.
So you must maybe write down, write your jokes out, or plan them out.
(32:08):
But what do you have to do to tweak them to turn them into that finished product so that
it's going to work at the mic?
I think I'm kind of lucky because usually when I write them, the first draft is the
final draft.
I usually don't rewrite them.
But sometimes I'll think, oh, this could be a little twist.
I try not to have too big of an ego that I'm like, yeah, I suppose it could be a little
(32:31):
better this way or that way.
But you're right, it is kind of like a conversation.
And I think too, sometimes when a comic talks to someone in the audience, usually they're
looking for a yes or a no.
(32:54):
If the comic goes too far and becomes crowd work, and crowd work is usually not.
What is crowd work?
Crowd work is where you start a conversation with somebody in the audience.
And it's usually frowned upon because if you're not the headliner, the people in the audience
are like, oh, this comic is talking with us, all the comics after them, we can talk with
(33:16):
them too.
So they feel like it's an open door, and it can really sabotage the following comedians
behind you.
And also the booker will probably say, don't do that here again.
Like they don't allow it, basically, at giggles, no crowd work.
It rule of thumb.
So question for you.
I'm going to interrupt for a second.
So you're talking about crowd work.
(33:37):
You're talking about somebody who's talking with the audience.
You were talking earlier about watching your time.
Is that something that people factor into their routine and is like, OK, I'm going to
start a conversation with a couple of people in the front row, and I need to spend three
(33:59):
minutes doing that before I go on to it.
Is that the illusion of spontaneity, or is it actually they're just not good at it with
their time?
I think once someone works at it, you pretty much know how much time it would take.
And once in a while, you get hired to do a 20-minute set.
(34:22):
But it's also factoring in pauses.
Like I was saying, hopefully they all start to laugh, and there's a curve where it goes
up, and then as it drops off, they go into the next joke.
But sometimes I've said some very stoic audiences who just silent.
And they're appreciating it, but they're not laughing.
And I just run through my material, and the next thing I know, I'm at 16 minutes and I'm
(34:46):
out of material because there's no laughter pauses.
And I wish I'd written it down, but I had an audience of like, I think it was like 35
people, it was quite a few years ago, and they just sat there blank, expressionless with
their arms folded.
And it felt brutal because a lot of like, am I not telling them right?
(35:10):
Did someone just die before I got here and I didn't know about this tragic news?
Or what's going on?
And then when the show ended, I came in like three or five different people came over and
they're like, I had a great time, you are hilarious.
And I'm like, what the heck is that?
That's so, they're so contained.
(35:30):
And it's like each audience is, I've had it where I've done the same material at different
clubs and one place they go crazy and the next place is like, ah, you're all right.
It's like, it really, it's a combination, I think, of being an art and a science and
still being baffling.
Do you think that there's just certain crowds that frequent certain venues?
(35:52):
And I asked that question for two experiences that I had.
Then I went to a comedy show New Year's Eve and the audience were pretty much around my
age.
It seemed like that it wasn't a bunch of 20-somethings, it was a bunch of people in, you know, 40s
and 50s.
And the comedians were awesome.
(36:12):
There was three of them and they nailed it and they were, their sets were so relevant
to the crowd.
Like the crowd could relate and the things that they said, they were just awesome.
They was dying and it was an out loud, very loud laughter.
Then I think about, and it was up in the Phoenician in Haverhill, Mass.
(36:35):
Then I think about this place that I went one time, it wasn't for a comedy show, but
it was some place near Salisbury, Hampton or whatever, it was a smaller venue.
It wasn't like the big club that bands go to on Hampton Beach, but it was like some
other smaller club.
Maybe the Winner's Circle.
It was something small, it might have been like Salisbury or Amesbury and it was Survivor.
(36:59):
And I went in, we went in and it was all tables and chairs, like tables.
And they were on a kind of a small stage which seemed like Survivor on a small stage, like
is this what we've been reduced to?
For our age group?
And nobody got up and clapped and nobody was dancing in the aisles, everybody sat in their
(37:19):
chairs.
They were clapped, but it was a really subdued crowd.
And I felt so bad for the performers because I felt like, I mean, you must be used to working
in arenas where people are on their feet and cheering.
So do you think that a venue, like do they prep you at all?
(37:43):
What to expect with the crowd ever?
And or do you think like certain venues are just going to have certain types of crowds
coming in?
I think the only thing in that case would be is if I'm getting booked for a show a couple
months ahead, it's going to be this type of crowd.
They'll tell you that?
It's like, well, these are going to be older people, they're going to be kind of this type
(38:05):
of thing.
But usually there's not a lot of instruction.
It's like I usually get booked based on who I am or what I've, nobody's usually said,
I want you to tell these jokes and not those jokes.
But like I've done quite a few things that are benefits, but a lot of times I've been
(38:26):
selfish.
I'm like, I want to perform, I want to get out there.
But I'm like, well, someone is going, usually for a benefit, somebody's going through something
pretty bad.
And I've been learning recently, I'm like, well, who are they?
What is their story?
What are they going through?
And sometimes I'll go over the other comics and I'm like, well, this person's seriously
(38:51):
battling cancer.
So let's be aware of that.
And once in a while, some of those people aren't there because they're too ill to make it,
but it's still a benefit for them.
But especially if they're present, I want to respect whatever they're going through.
Right, right.
And I might edit it.
But I don't have anything that really attacks anybody.
(39:13):
People ask me about being heckled.
And I'm like, I've only been heckled like once.
I was by someone who's very drunk and didn't know what was going on.
How do comedians handle that when somebody's heckling them?
Well, I've taken some workshops and they say to kind of mentally have like three insults
in your back pocket.
And if someone is like deliberately, they're not just like, hey, I love your humor or some
(39:40):
little like a one or two word thing, you know, punctuating, I like that joke.
Yeah, that's what to me, that's not heckling.
But when someone's like some if you're riding a bicycle and someone sticks it, puts a stick
in your spokes, you go over the handlebars.
If it's that kind of interruption, that's heckling.
So what they say to do is to target them.
(40:01):
And also to it's a big audience.
If they send an insult to you, say it back into the microphone because the most of the
audience didn't hear the insult.
And it would look like a bad person is just targeting some random person and the audience
enjoying him.
So you repeat, you let the audience know this is what they just said to me, maybe with some
(40:21):
expletives in it or whatever, that if that's what they used and then give them your response
to them, letting them know, this is my territory.
This is my time.
Behave yourself or this is.
And then the next insult, if they continue on is a more hurtful one.
(40:42):
And then the third one is like, decimate, you go for the throat.
And I had heard a rumor about George Carlin that I wish I knew what.
Can you imagine ever heckling him?
That would be suicide.
Well, there are some stupid people in the world.
Clearly.
But you don't want to look bad on stage and it's best to defer to the management to handle
(41:06):
a problem person.
So if he did a little interacting with somebody that wouldn't shut up and let him do his show,
I'm just going to make this up like bananas.
Like that was the key word.
It would be like, Mr., you're driving me bananas or whatever his key word was.
That was the signal for security to pretend that they had decided to remove the person.
(41:29):
But it was George telling them to get this person the hell out of here.
So I was like, well, it's pretty clever because it doesn't make him look so bad.
But what can I do?
Management decided they didn't want this person in here.
Yep.
And we're moving on with the show.
Because all those other people paid to be there.
And they came to see you.
And so, yeah.
Exactly.
(41:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very interesting.
When you write out your jokes or you rehearse them or you memorize them, do you find that
– are you at a stage now where you're delivering the same jokes the same way every
time or is there a – like is it varied?
Very little difference.
I think it's pretty much the same.
(42:10):
Pretty much word for word, which is – and I like to think I'm kind of like a word surgeon
where this is the way it should be.
I had a joke I did about perpetual care of cemeteries.
And that I was against it.
(42:33):
And there were some college students in the room.
And I said that I was against this perpetual care of cemeteries.
And I said, if I – I'm going to fight this till my last breath.
And if they want to cut that grass, they'll have to do it over my dead body.
And these college students came up to me and they're like, that joke is perfect.
(42:57):
They said it's exactly the right length.
It's got the right words that there's no words you should take out or add in.
They said it's just the way it should be.
And it's kind of funny because I would have never guessed that they would love that particular
joke.
Yeah.
There's value in that, for sure.
Well that's all the time we have for today.
(43:18):
I just want to thank you for being here and just sharing all the behind the scenes, literally,
of what it takes to be a comic.
And you know, just – you know, just all the stories that you shared of like all the
people that you've met and all the experiences that you've had, I think it's just – it's
(43:38):
going to be great for our listeners.
So thank you.
Thank you.
The time flew by.
It was a lot of fun.
Great to see you too.
Thank you.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime,
thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
(44:00):
Happy storytelling.
Music
.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.