June 17, 2024 • 44 mins
In honor of Pride Month 2024, we were honored to hear our friend Danielle Smith’s Coming AWARE story. This UMM Research Administrator shared her journey of when she came out, how the DEI department at the university is making a difference with their inclusive programming, and how best to connect with your queer colleagues, friends, and neighbors.
We also share some resources for anyone who may need help. You can check them out here:
GLAAD: https://glaad.org/
PFLAG: https://pflag.org/
The Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
And I guess if I had to sum up my story in like a sentence, right, I would say delayed
(00:27):
growth due to childhood trauma.
And so I grew up in the Boston area.
I live here in Michigan these days.
And I work for a major university here and everything.
And I moved here about eight years ago, but I grew up in Boston and I grew up in an alcoholic
(00:49):
and violent home.
And there was violence, there was abuse.
And so I had a lot of childhood trauma that I carried with me into my adulthood that I
never really dealt with.
And then in my early 30s, I found my way into a 12-step program.
It doesn't matter which one it is, they're all great.
(01:09):
And I will say it was really useful and the experience for me was life-changing.
And because it was the first time I actually dealt with the trauma and walked through a
lot of that and unfolded it.
And it helped me get unstuck.
(01:31):
And it propelled me and helped me to grow.
And so it was an interesting time because it was a time when I'm learning about what
color do I really like or what's my favorite music and what movies do I like and what do
I like to read and things like that.
And then the sexuality piece came out quite naturally.
(01:55):
So it was like I was coming to a whole of me and then that just evolved and it was like,
oh, okay.
And it was really subtle.
It was really subtle how it happened.
And so my story on how that happened for me, and I know with other people it's really different.
So I've been married now.
(02:16):
I've been with my wife now for 17 years, it's amazing, and we've been married since just
prior to coming to Michigan.
But I know for her, she knew at a very early age and so she was just more self-aware.
She had a very different childhood than me.
But she has a lot of trauma and baggage as a result of that knowing and having to keep
(02:41):
herself hidden.
And I didn't have any of that because I had the other trauma to deal with.
So for me, it was when I started to evolve and to come into myself, this last piece came
quite naturally.
I had gone to dinner with a friend.
And this is somebody that I didn't hang out with a lot and I thought, oh, they seem really
(03:05):
cool.
I like their vibe and their energy.
And then we went to dinner and it was like, it was easy conversation.
And just we had a lot of fun, a lot of laughs.
And then we had met up and then drove together to the restaurant and then dropped her back
off to get to her car that then drive home.
(03:26):
And I gave her a hug.
And at the time I was like, I realized I wanted to kiss her.
And I thought, oh, what's this about?
You know, it was something new.
And I was like, huh.
And so I kind of put that thought aside, like, because I'm really, I was really good at from
traumatic situations as being able to like put things in little boxes and sort of like
(03:50):
tuck it aside.
And I thought, oh, let's not go there.
In fact, I went home and I set up a date immediately with a man on Match.com.
And so this was midweek and then when Saturday I go on this date and you know, the entire
time I'm on the date, I'm thinking about her.
And I also knew he was kind of short and I think I deliberately and subconsciously were
(04:14):
really tall boots that day to the date.
And so I felt like I was like, you know, towering over him.
And I was thinking about her the whole time.
And I thought, you know, I had a, I had about an evening of like a hissy fit and trying
to like say, I don't want to deal with this and da da da.
And then, and the next day I woke up and I thought, you know what?
(04:36):
I think I want to explore these feelings and just to see what they're about.
And I'm really fortunate that I was surrounded by so many good people to reach out to.
And so, and, and, you know, there were definitely people that didn't have that sort of like
all welcoming reaction.
(04:56):
But the number of people that did far outweighed that.
My brothers were really incredibly loving and supportive.
And that actually surprised me.
But shouldn't have.
I mean, we grew up with our aunt who was gay, like, so there was, there was knowledge there.
(05:18):
My friends were more often than not welcoming.
I had, I did have some friends that had, you know, kind of a pullback from the situation,
I think, because, you know, people are processing their own stuff.
I mean, it's just, it's a lot for people to take in.
I mean, it's, I think it's no different than, you know, like if you go into say, you all
(05:43):
of a sudden go in and become a nun or something like that.
Like, you know, it's, it's like a whole different piece of you that they never saw coming.
And so it's as much of a shock it is, as it could be to you, it could be to them.
And so I kind of had the hindsight about that too, and I was, I was okay with that.
I figured, you know, people will come to their own evolution on things and it's not up to
(06:06):
me to control.
And so, you know, I did have somebody that when I told them, they said, well, you know,
Danny, that's not you.
That's not natural.
And my whole stomach did a flip flop.
And for a second, I like hesitated, but like the doors, not only were the windows open,
the doors were open.
And by that point, like it was like that piece of me was coming out no matter what.
(06:30):
And so it was like a whole coming to and not coming out.
So I called up a friend of mine initially who was gay when I, when I, after I had my
hissy fit and I said to them, and explained what was going on.
And she said, well, good for you.
You know, great.
Good for you for acknowledging the feelings.
You may be gay, you may be bi, you know, you may just be really attracted.
(06:54):
And something within this person that you find attractive in them, you know, some part
of their personality, but good for you for acknowledging the feelings.
I'm really proud of you, you know.
And so that bit of encouragement helped me to then reach out to other friends.
And I just, I just knew I wanted to be like open about all of me.
(07:16):
I had like all of me in a closet for so long, you know, like I had to be open and, and,
you know, no matter what the consequences were to relationships or other things.
And so I, yeah, I reached out to friends, a close friend of mine in Canada said, oh
my God, I'm so happy you finally realized.
(07:37):
And so, so that was kind of the reaction I got from most people.
Not so much from my mother.
And that's surprising because my mom grew up with her sister who was gay and they lived
upstairs from us in a triple decker for quite some time when I lived in Boston.
And so, you know, mom's reaction was, how can you go from, you know, being with a man
(08:00):
to being with a woman?
And what does that mean for children, for home?
And, you know, and I'm like, you know, mom, I think it's, the picture's just different,
you know.
I said, you can still have the kids, the relationship, the white picket fence.
You know, it's just a different picture.
And eventually, like, and I let it go.
And my mom and I weren't wholly intimate, like, into having like that kind of dialogue
(08:23):
and discussion.
So I knew well enough to let mom process it.
And I think, I think my aunt was an ally in that process for her too.
And my brother certainly had something to say about it.
And they were awesome.
And then from there, I think my aunt wanted to be more of a support for me.
(08:47):
So my first year in coming aware was more, it wasn't just coming out, it was being aware
first.
And then, and accepting that and then exploring it.
And then, you know, and my aunt wanted to be like there for me.
And she mentioned it and we talked about it.
But I didn't really need it.
(09:08):
You know, for me, my story is one of just, it's not so much just coming out.
Like I've, like, I came to, I came out, and I stayed out.
And if I had to say that would be my story.
Hello, my name is Liana Henry.
(09:31):
And welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a MarCom and project management firm headquartered
on the east coast of the US in quaint colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
(09:54):
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish Story.
The moral of the Starfish Story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
(10:14):
One step, one starfish, or one story at a time.
Every episode, we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
So thanks for tuning in.
Now let's get started.
Today's episode is in honor of Pride Month 2024.
(10:35):
And with me today is my dear friend Danielle Smith.
In addition to being a research administrator for life sciences at a large university in
Michigan, she is a proud for mama, musician, talented photographer and member of the LGBTQ
plus community.
Danielle is joining me today to share her journey and some insights she learned along
(10:56):
the way.
So thank you so much for being here.
We're really excited to have you.
Thank you very much for having me.
It's an honor.
We'd like to get started by having our guests introduce themselves.
And you do much better job than I did.
So would you mind telling folks a little bit more about you?
Sure.
(11:17):
So I currently live in Michigan.
I grew up in the Boston area.
And I work for University of Michigan, which I'm proud to share.
They do a lot of the initiatives and I'm very proud to represent.
I don't represent you.
Am I represent myself here on this podcast today?
But I'm very proud to be working at University of Michigan and in the role that I am in at
(11:44):
the Institute in particular, who are very strong allies in the movement.
So nice.
So I loved hearing your story.
I've known you for a long time.
I have never heard it in its totality.
I love the concept of coming aware before coming out.
(12:07):
I think so.
I can only compare it to the queer folks in my family.
But for some folks, it was sort of just a natural evolution that they were going to
come out.
And then for some folks, there was sort of this urgency that they needed to tell their
story.
And so there was this coming out experience as opposed to being aware.
(12:32):
So I really loved sort of and I loved how you compared your wife's experience to your
experience and how that was different based on the background that you came from.
For us, this time of year is very, very important because on our team, we have straight allies,
(12:54):
gay, lesbian, and pansexual folks that all work for our company.
And we come to work every day of the year being our authentic selves.
But for this time of year, we like to use our platforms and channels to speak out about
why pride matters and to talk a little bit about how folks could help or get help.
(13:19):
How do you get involved with pride?
So here in Michigan, so I moved here about eight years ago pre-pandemic.
And so I haven't been as involved here in Michigan in pride activities except on campus.
And so we haven't, my wife transitioned with the pandemic, so it wasn't like time for social
(13:42):
activity.
So we're really feeling like now we're starting to venture there.
And so there's a massive pride celebration in Detroit in June.
So we're trying to think about our plans around that activity.
And so there are, and there's a lot happening in Michigan.
(14:08):
Michigan, my wife grew up in Michigan.
And so it's been interesting having her come back and have a different kind of experience
than what she had during her childhood.
It's much more open here.
We live in Washtenaw County, which is, I'm sure like the political spectrum has a lot
(14:30):
to do with this.
It's 95% Democrat here.
And so it's a very open area and the university has a lot to play in that role.
They play a big part of that.
So as far as pride here, I wasn't heavily involved.
I was more involved in Massachusetts.
So we lived in Western Mass for a time.
(14:50):
We lived in Northampton.
We like to say that's the pride capital of the world.
It's at every level and it's wonderful and such an inclusive town.
And it's actually, and it's home of Smith College.
So it's a reason why a lot of students choose to go to Smith as it's a safety thing for
(15:14):
them as well in terms of having a safe and inclusive environment as they experience that
through school.
But I would say there are five colleges out there and they're equally as inclusive and
welcoming.
So in addition to obviously the people that work, we work together.
(15:34):
I have family who identify as gay and when they came out, I remember everything was like
rainbows and let's get involved in pride and let's go hang the rainbow flag.
And I thought showing my support was being really open about it and out there and I'm
wearing all my rainbows, look at me.
(15:54):
But what I learned was that being gay is only part of the human pie, just like being straight
is only part of the human pie.
And being white is part of the human pie, being black, being Latino, being indigenous,
it's all part of the human pie.
And some of my folks have taught me that being creative and inquisitive, maybe loving to
(16:19):
cook, maybe being an athlete, being a loyal friend, being skilled at their jobs, being
very comedic or funny, all of this goes into making them who they are and all of that needs
to be acknowledged and addressed and loved.
And sexual orientation didn't need to be front and center.
(16:41):
Now you talked about in your story about how your family and friends responded.
You had family that was loving and some friends that were and some friends that weren't.
At least for the ones that were supportive, because I think people want to be supportive,
(17:02):
but they might not know how.
Did you find that you were able or felt like you needed to kind of guide them a little
bit on best ways to be supportive?
For some it was, I think, a bit harder.
I didn't have to guide them.
I don't feel like it's my job to guide them in that way.
(17:26):
People want to, I think people love you genuinely.
And I think people have their own stuff that they have to guide themselves through and
their own issues and biases.
I will share an experience I had at work.
And I won't name the who.
But sometimes people feel like they have to connect with you by naming, like, you know,
(17:50):
the conversation will start off like this.
Oh, so my gay neighbor or my gay friend, you know, it's like they feel like they want to
relate to you personally and they feel like that's the way to do it the most personal.
And it's really not like, you know, I mean, there's so much more to me as a person.
I'm highly creative.
(18:12):
I sing, I do photography, I write, like, you know, there's all these things that I do.
In addition to entertaining my fur babies 24 seven, who you may even hear on this on
this on this recording, you know, but I there's so much more to me.
And I'm a wife.
I'm a family member.
(18:32):
I'm a sister.
You know, you know, there's just and I think that, you know, this person was definitely
trying to relate to me by talking about their their gay neighbor.
And it just you could tell the awkwardness on the conversation.
And I would say that for folks, if you're an ally, don't relate in that way.
(18:53):
Like that'll eventually they'll eventually come be comfortable enough to talk with you
and they'll see you like them as a whole person.
And so people will will open up about all of them.
And you'll find very interesting things about people when they talk about themselves.
I've had young adults in my life feel the need to guide me, especially on things like
(19:14):
pronouns.
They got to the point with me.
I was never intentional.
I wasn't ever trying to be disrespectful.
It was new to me.
And but they got to the point where before they would even introduce me to somebody,
they would they would let me know, OK, this person is non binary.
They identify as they them, you know, don't call this person he.
You don't call this person she.
(19:36):
So it was like they were running interference for me so that I wouldn't like have a giant
faux pas and harm someone or unintentionally hurt somebody.
Right.
And I will tell you that even even I struggled with pronouns.
So you know, it's I mean, I grew up speaking English language one way.
(19:57):
And then, you know, we had we've had a whole host of trainings at U of M and which is wonderful.
And so we all struggled through this process together.
And you know, and and it's and it's extra challenging.
So I'm in an environment with with a lot of international people.
I mean, we struggle just pronounce names, you know.
(20:18):
And so a lot of times we will we will defer to someone's name before we defer to a pronoun
and then and that will be secondary.
But many of us include our pronouns in our signature line, which is helpful to a lot
of people.
Yeah.
So helps them to identify and to communicate with us.
(20:38):
Yeah, very important.
I think I was poking around your LinkedIn because I only know you from one area of life.
I didn't know you and your personal like your professional career.
And I see that you worked in higher education.
So some of my questions around that were and I think you sort of answered some of this,
you know, was your sexual orientation ever an issue?
(21:00):
If it was, how so?
But if it wasn't, in what ways were employers welcoming to you?
And then, you know, you have a D.E.I. department at U of M that is very active.
Have you been involved in any of their planning, programming, strategy, anything like that?
(21:27):
Or like your departments like contributed to anything to help out or so?
I know I've asked you like 10 questions.
That's OK.
So I'm going to answer the first one around being in.
I'm a research administrator.
And so I've been in research administration now over 24 years and I've worked at five
institutions and I will name them all proudly.
(21:49):
Harvard, Northeastern, Smith College, UMass Amherst, and now University of Michigan, which
I hope to retire at and done moving around.
And I will tell you, they were all welcoming.
I'm really glad that I came aware while working in academia.
It's like it's a really healthy environment for that.
(22:09):
And I'm really proud of the work U of M is doing in the area of D.E.I.
They created this initiative and it just it's skyrocketed at the university and it's done
from the roots level.
And so I actually served on the originating D.E.I. committee where we formed the strategy
(22:32):
for D.E.I. at the institute.
And so I was on that committee for a while and it was very interesting.
Actually, I learned a lot about my own internal biases and we had a lot of great discussions,
a lot of great dialogue, trainings and other things around forming this.
And our leadership is they are allies.
And so at the institute and at the university, but I will say strongly at the institute,
(22:56):
so much so that they perform.
They formed a position of D.E.I. director, which is unusual.
And so they this person lives at the precipice of science and administration.
And so they're able to communicate with both sides doing a phenomenal job.
And so I was very involved with that.
(23:19):
They do a lot of initiatives and activities.
It's a very inclusive environment.
Like it's almost like being in a sandbox where you get to play all the time and you get to
you get to choose all the toys you want to play with.
And that's all good.
And nothing is nothing is off the table for that, which is really nice.
And we really work hard to make sure it's inclusive at all levels.
(23:42):
I was going to ask about that because so just in my experience dealing with the eye, because
we had a director or officer or someone at a company that I tech company where I was
at and I just recently took a storytelling certification class for auto guided autobiography.
(24:06):
And there were some themes that now we're tying into D.E.I. because it's you know, it's
now you know, on the forefront, people are addressing this now where they probably didn't
address it before.
Have you felt that because D.E.I. I my experience has been that it's it started primarily around
(24:30):
racism and addressing racism.
Do you feel like it is also addressing sort of gender identity, sexual orientation, identity
issues as well?
I mean, what has been your experience with that?
It's mixed.
OK, and I'm going to take it from two different perspectives.
(24:50):
One is just from the perspective of activities at the university itself, like there's been
a lot more racial exposure, you know, if you will.
And but, you know, we we tend to take it from both from all angles at the institute.
So we're really very hyper hyper conscious of it.
(25:13):
I also work a lot with our trainees, so our graduate students and postdocs.
And I will tell you, so in my work, I submit fellowships for them.
And a lot of them are submitting to D.E.I. at, you know, fellowships and, you know, and
for the federal government.
And unfortunately, the Fed, I have to walk them through this right in terms of what's
(25:33):
required, what's needed and what the eligibility criteria is.
And the federal felt the federal criteria does not recognize LGBTQ as a diversity criteria
in these fellowship applications.
And I think that's really missing the mark, you know, and and I share that with the trainees,
(25:54):
you know, but I'm still required to adhere to the terms and conditions to have their
fellowship awarded and reviewed and potentially awarded.
And so it's it's delicate to walk through and we try to find the right fit for them
in terms of whether they meet any of the other criteria.
So I think I think I think it's I think it's a struggle and it's going to be a struggle
(26:19):
for a while.
And I think, you know, it's there's so much happening right now on the political spectrum,
like in other states, like we hear this about we hear this at conferences from other research
administrators that like how they're trying to deal with all of these issues in their
state where where they live in a state where they're not even allowed to have discussions
(26:41):
about the IAEA.
And University of Michigan is like, no, we're doing it.
And and I'm so proud of that, like they're not caving to any kinds of political pressures.
But I think I think Michigan's gone a little blue and overall, so I think that's a good
thing.
You know, that was definitely something we talked about before moving here, too, and
(27:03):
whether that would be a concern for us.
And you know, and we're here because of family and affordability, frankly.
And you know, you live in the Boston area, you know.
And so but mostly family and the lifestyle is is is really nice in the Midwest.
(27:24):
I'm not missing Boston traffic.
Sorry, friends.
And and it's what do you mean?
I love my 10 minute commute to work.
You know, it's it's not so bad.
And you know, but it's just things are a little just neighborly in the Midwest is, I think
(27:45):
it's a very different approach to things.
And I think here in Michigan, it's it's evolved a lot.
It's changed a lot.
And people's perspectives have changed a lot.
And I think you have to be in for the long haul with these issues, you know, and there
will be there will be setbacks.
And then just to stay strong through them, I think is really important.
(28:05):
And to be engaged as much as possible.
I think that's really important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think thank you for saying all of that, because it sounds like, you know, here's
a university that's trying to do the right thing.
But you know, sometimes when you're an organization that has some sort of federal grants and sort
(28:26):
of those those ties back to federal regulations, it becomes dicey.
I remember a situation I was working for this company that's very, very welcoming, very
open, like had, you know, a LGBTQ ERG.
Like it was just a really open and we wanted to do a presentation as as the group.
(28:52):
And because there was some sort of regulation, because the company was taking federal had
federal contracts of some sort and somehow were tied to this, they we weren't allowed
to have the training because it was an LGBTQ type thing.
(29:12):
And our one of our folks that are running for president was president at the time.
And that was a big reason why.
But you know, I can see sort of that, you know, organizations really have to walk the
line between being inclusive and being tied to, you know, outside agencies and policies.
(29:41):
So that that's tricky stuff.
You know, I I follow obviously all the news and and everything that's happening in the
LGBTQ community.
Obviously, I have people in my life that I love that are impacted by by these things.
You know, it's my opinion that LGBTQ community is remains under attack across the globe.
(30:05):
Countries are tightening anti gay laws.
Pride events are being warned of terror attacks.
Couples are suing over transgender worker protections and gay couples are being denied
health benefits for IVF.
It's you know, it's just really scary.
And it speaks to why we all need to do things like vote, use your voice, address the injustices
(30:28):
to try to make change any way we can.
When it comes to social justice, I mean, you spoke a little bit about it in your work.
But when it comes to social justice, are there any other LGBTQ related issues that you're
pretty passionate about?
Yeah.
So first of all, I want to say that, yeah, it's it's scary now.
(30:51):
Like times are really scary.
There's a rise of nationalism and patriotism.
And I'm probably mispronouncing that, but that's okay.
But you get the point.
And then and a real concerted effort to attack the LGBTQ community, both abroad and here
(31:12):
in the US.
And and that's been going on for a while now.
It's I must feel like, you know, there was such a strong movement of feminism, feminism,
and I'm going to play off of this, that this propelled us into, you know, women's rights,
(31:33):
the ability to control your body, you know, voting credit.
I mean, that's only since the 70s.
You know, women can buy houses, women are CEOs running for president.
They're president of some countries.
Lucky them, you know.
And then, you know, there was so much progression in the world that those that don't agree with
(31:54):
it, I think had a lot of fear and couldn't handle it.
And now they're desperately trying to claw all of that back.
And I would say the best thing I do as a member of the community is to be open.
I stand strong.
I do not go in the closet.
(32:15):
I stand for who I am.
You know, other people be damned.
I'm sorry if that's a swear word on your podcast.
I'm not going to use the other word I thought of.
But, you know, I mean, yeah, so, you know, I think it's really important just to be open
(32:36):
and not to be afraid, not to live in like give into that fear and go back into hiding.
I mean, that's number one.
And then to fight for your rights.
And there are lots of ways to do that.
You know, we certainly support financially different activities and different organizations.
(32:58):
And then, you know, I'm not adverse and have not been adverse at different times to calling
up our local politicians and stating my opinions.
You know, what you do here in this podcast is supporting.
You're doing that in social media.
In my social media presence, I share that I'm married.
(33:20):
You know, my wife doesn't share because of the line of work that she's in, but that's
a whole other conversation.
You know, but and I have friends that do as well that are in the community.
They're very open about it.
We're very open about sharing issues or different likes on social media.
I tend to I'm a photographer, so I tend to share a lot of nature photos and, you know,
(33:44):
and spread love on social media and them.
Thank you.
And do my very nice music out on TikTok and other other social media platforms.
But I think I think it's really the number one thing you can do is to stay open and then
the then and then get into involved up to the level of activity that you can support,
(34:06):
you know, and even if it makes you uncomfortable, like in it and especially if it makes you
uncomfortable, not if it makes you unsafe.
There's a difference.
Like if you're uncomfortable about something, it's always good to explore what that is that
you're uncomfortable about.
That's where growth comes in.
But if you're if you're feeling unsafe, that's a different story.
Right.
(34:27):
Right.
Yeah, that's important to take care of yourself.
So you're a photographer, you're a firm mama, you are a musician.
And I've been seeing you on social playing your guitar at I think I saw you playing at
(34:48):
like a retirement home or assisted living.
I saw it at like a gosh, it was like a farmers market or something like that.
It was like, how cool is that?
And I've heard you.
So I know how talented you are and and how much joy that brings you.
(35:09):
Do you participate in any groups or courses or choirs?
I know that there's there's one in your area.
It's called the Out Loud Chorus, a member of the Gala Choruses that are national.
There's a bunch of them all over the country.
(35:30):
And a lot of the members are from the LGBTQ community.
So but I didn't know, like, do you participate in anything like that?
No, I so I don't know that I have time.
So but it gave me.
Yeah.
I really I mean, it's it's really a wonderful organization.
And they've been on campus.
So I have seen that.
(35:51):
And unfortunately, that didn't align with our plans for me to go to their most recent.
They performed just a couple of weeks ago.
And so but they perform all over the place.
And I know we did partake in a lot of events when we lived in Western Mass.
We had more time then.
I'm really busy between work and photography and writing and, you know, all my other activities.
(36:16):
I do perform.
Yes, the farmers markets are apparently my gig lately.
That's new for me to put myself out there as a musician.
And so that's been fun to explore.
And the in the assisted living home, we I do that with a friend of mine.
(36:36):
So we call ourselves.
She's trouble.
We're a duo.
And so she she plays piano and I sing and play guitar.
And it's a wonderful gift.
So we were originally going there for her mom.
Her mom was a resident there and then her mom passed.
And so we continue to honor her by doing these performances.
So I performed Mother's Day and then Father's Day.
(36:58):
But I'm thinking about what activities I could possibly do as well.
But one thing I am open is when I'm talking with people or, you know, if they're asking
me about myself or my life as a musician, even when I'm at the farmers markets, I share
openly about being gay and being married.
And you know, and I leave that up to them to, you know, to process.
(37:22):
And I find that most people are welcoming.
You know, that's not an issue or concern.
So you you said at the end of the previous question, you said there's a difference between
feeling uncomfortable and feeling unsafe and to not participate in things that feel unsafe.
(37:42):
You know, we may have some listeners who are unsure or questioning or maybe not feeling
supported in their circles.
What should they do?
What kind of advice can you give them just from your own sort of experiences?
Well, first of all, I want to say two things.
You're not alone and you are loved.
(38:06):
And it may not be by the people that you think you should be.
And I will say just from all of my childhood trauma and every everything that I had to
deal with in terms of my my family, the picture can evolve.
I have a lot of family in my life and and have since since I took my journey down the
(38:26):
twelve steps and mainly because that's where I get a lot of support is from my family.
And they love me for who I am, you know, and but if you're feeling like you need additional
support, there are so many organizations out there.
They're like a Google search away.
(38:47):
There's many national organizations, GLAAD, PFLAG.
I'm going to forget all of the acronyms, but just, you know, do a Google search.
You'll find many of them.
Many of them have trauma centers.
We have friends of ours that they're they've been married a long time and they are currently
(39:10):
managing their child who is transitioning.
And as of as an LGBTQ family, right?
Like, you know, and and they're they're a lesbian couple and they're trying to figure
out and navigate all this and do it in a way that's healthy for them and for their child.
And so it's been really interesting to have them share that with us as a couple and to
(39:35):
watch them experience that.
And so and they too, you know, even they've been even though they have been married and
been out for a long, long time, they sought help and needed help in that situation.
So so, you know, when I say there's a difference between feeling uncomfortable and feeling
(39:55):
unsafe, like, you know, there's there's a lot of unsafe situations, you know, in life.
And, you know, and many of them, you know, they require action to get out of.
And so take an action for yourself and and reach out to any one of these organizations,
(40:17):
you know, and many, many are just a Zoom call away even, you know, which is nice to get
a person face to face.
And and safety is first with all of these organizations.
So, you know, and confidentiality.
So they will keep your information confidential until you are ready to reveal it as it should
be.
(40:37):
Mm hmm.
One of the the organization that we support this time of year and throughout the year,
different times of year is the Trevor Project because they deal with, you know, the youth
suicide suicidality and, you know, and they have so much programming and they do they
have a very tight security system for anyone who might be researching or learning, you
(41:04):
know, and in some countries, people can't find this website because it's not allowed.
So they do what they do a lot of really wonderful work.
So, yeah, we we we're interested in travel and we've expressed or just certain countries
we will never travel to.
We will never feel safe.
(41:24):
You don't need to name them all.
You can Google those two.
But and states and there's many states that aren't safe.
So some of my young people, we are very happy living in the New England states where we
are, you know, we we live in Massachusetts and we're probably going to move to Connecticut.
And it's also a very safe state.
(41:44):
So yeah, yeah, it's that's just the reality of this lifestyle that we need to live.
It is.
And and, you know, my wife and I have chatted that if we ever felt unsafe here, if tides
ever turned here in Michigan and we felt unsafe, we would gladly move back to New England,
(42:04):
you know, which would be great.
I would get to see all of my peeps more often.
That's right.
Yes, except on instead of just on Facebook.
Right.
For sure.
So great.
Anything else you want to add before we wrap it up?
Yeah, I just want to emphasize again, just sorry if you hear my dog's back barking in
(42:26):
the background here.
I just wanted to emphasize to anyone, you know, becoming aware or or going through or,
you know, just again, you're not alone.
You're not unloved, you know, and you there are plenty of people to help and there are
plenty of resources, just, you know, quick text or a phone call away and just just reach
(42:53):
out and, you know, and and stay safe and stay strong.
You know, the world is funny.
You know, this all of this could be, you know, a sound bite a year from now after the election
here in the states.
We don't know.
We hope so.
But there are many people now that are really advocating for for our progressive movement
(43:21):
and you know, that are wealthy people, which is great because we need a lot of that.
And unfortunately, that's what it takes for some of the messaging here.
And I would say, you know, do what you can to support those initiatives and and activities
and as well, you know, any activities in your community as well.
(43:41):
So I think that's it.
Thank you for having me.
This was so much fun.
Yeah, I know this is all the time we have for today.
But, you know, just hearing your story and getting to kind of talk about sort of the
reality of the world that we live in, but that there are resources out there, I think
was super helpful.
So thank you so much for being on the show.
(44:03):
Thank you.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
Happy storytelling.
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
And I guess if I had to sum up my story in like a sentence, right, I would say delayed
(00:27):
growth due to childhood trauma.
And so I grew up in the Boston area.
I live here in Michigan these days.
And I work for a major university here and everything.
And I moved here about eight years ago, but I grew up in Boston and I grew up in an alcoholic
(00:49):
and violent home.
And there was violence, there was abuse.
And so I had a lot of childhood trauma that I carried with me into my adulthood that I
never really dealt with.
And then in my early 30s, I found my way into a 12-step program.
It doesn't matter which one it is, they're all great.
(01:09):
And I will say it was really useful and the experience for me was life-changing.
And because it was the first time I actually dealt with the trauma and walked through a
lot of that and unfolded it.
And it helped me get unstuck.
(01:31):
And it propelled me and helped me to grow.
And so it was an interesting time because it was a time when I'm learning about what
color do I really like or what's my favorite music and what movies do I like and what do
I like to read and things like that.
And then the sexuality piece came out quite naturally.
(01:55):
So it was like I was coming to a whole of me and then that just evolved and it was like,
oh, okay.
And it was really subtle.
It was really subtle how it happened.
And so my story on how that happened for me, and I know with other people it's really different.
So I've been married now.
(02:16):
I've been with my wife now for 17 years, it's amazing, and we've been married since just
prior to coming to Michigan.
But I know for her, she knew at a very early age and so she was just more self-aware.
She had a very different childhood than me.
But she has a lot of trauma and baggage as a result of that knowing and having to keep
(02:41):
herself hidden.
And I didn't have any of that because I had the other trauma to deal with.
So for me, it was when I started to evolve and to come into myself, this last piece came
quite naturally.
I had gone to dinner with a friend.
And this is somebody that I didn't hang out with a lot and I thought, oh, they seem really
(03:05):
cool.
I like their vibe and their energy.
And then we went to dinner and it was like, it was easy conversation.
And just we had a lot of fun, a lot of laughs.
And then we had met up and then drove together to the restaurant and then dropped her back
off to get to her car that then drive home.
(03:26):
And I gave her a hug.
And at the time I was like, I realized I wanted to kiss her.
And I thought, oh, what's this about?
You know, it was something new.
And I was like, huh.
And so I kind of put that thought aside, like, because I'm really, I was really good at from
traumatic situations as being able to like put things in little boxes and sort of like
(03:50):
tuck it aside.
And I thought, oh, let's not go there.
In fact, I went home and I set up a date immediately with a man on Match.com.
And so this was midweek and then when Saturday I go on this date and you know, the entire
time I'm on the date, I'm thinking about her.
And I also knew he was kind of short and I think I deliberately and subconsciously were
(04:14):
really tall boots that day to the date.
And so I felt like I was like, you know, towering over him.
And I was thinking about her the whole time.
And I thought, you know, I had a, I had about an evening of like a hissy fit and trying
to like say, I don't want to deal with this and da da da.
And then, and the next day I woke up and I thought, you know what?
(04:36):
I think I want to explore these feelings and just to see what they're about.
And I'm really fortunate that I was surrounded by so many good people to reach out to.
And so, and, and, you know, there were definitely people that didn't have that sort of like
all welcoming reaction.
(04:56):
But the number of people that did far outweighed that.
My brothers were really incredibly loving and supportive.
And that actually surprised me.
But shouldn't have.
I mean, we grew up with our aunt who was gay, like, so there was, there was knowledge there.
(05:18):
My friends were more often than not welcoming.
I had, I did have some friends that had, you know, kind of a pullback from the situation,
I think, because, you know, people are processing their own stuff.
I mean, it's just, it's a lot for people to take in.
I mean, it's, I think it's no different than, you know, like if you go into say, you all
(05:43):
of a sudden go in and become a nun or something like that.
Like, you know, it's, it's like a whole different piece of you that they never saw coming.
And so it's as much of a shock it is, as it could be to you, it could be to them.
And so I kind of had the hindsight about that too, and I was, I was okay with that.
I figured, you know, people will come to their own evolution on things and it's not up to
(06:06):
me to control.
And so, you know, I did have somebody that when I told them, they said, well, you know,
Danny, that's not you.
That's not natural.
And my whole stomach did a flip flop.
And for a second, I like hesitated, but like the doors, not only were the windows open,
the doors were open.
And by that point, like it was like that piece of me was coming out no matter what.
(06:30):
And so it was like a whole coming to and not coming out.
So I called up a friend of mine initially who was gay when I, when I, after I had my
hissy fit and I said to them, and explained what was going on.
And she said, well, good for you.
You know, great.
Good for you for acknowledging the feelings.
You may be gay, you may be bi, you know, you may just be really attracted.
(06:54):
And something within this person that you find attractive in them, you know, some part
of their personality, but good for you for acknowledging the feelings.
I'm really proud of you, you know.
And so that bit of encouragement helped me to then reach out to other friends.
And I just, I just knew I wanted to be like open about all of me.
(07:16):
I had like all of me in a closet for so long, you know, like I had to be open and, and,
you know, no matter what the consequences were to relationships or other things.
And so I, yeah, I reached out to friends, a close friend of mine in Canada said, oh
my God, I'm so happy you finally realized.
(07:37):
And so, so that was kind of the reaction I got from most people.
Not so much from my mother.
And that's surprising because my mom grew up with her sister who was gay and they lived
upstairs from us in a triple decker for quite some time when I lived in Boston.
And so, you know, mom's reaction was, how can you go from, you know, being with a man
(08:00):
to being with a woman?
And what does that mean for children, for home?
And, you know, and I'm like, you know, mom, I think it's, the picture's just different,
you know.
I said, you can still have the kids, the relationship, the white picket fence.
You know, it's just a different picture.
And eventually, like, and I let it go.
And my mom and I weren't wholly intimate, like, into having like that kind of dialogue
(08:23):
and discussion.
So I knew well enough to let mom process it.
And I think, I think my aunt was an ally in that process for her too.
And my brother certainly had something to say about it.
And they were awesome.
And then from there, I think my aunt wanted to be more of a support for me.
(08:47):
So my first year in coming aware was more, it wasn't just coming out, it was being aware
first.
And then, and accepting that and then exploring it.
And then, you know, and my aunt wanted to be like there for me.
And she mentioned it and we talked about it.
But I didn't really need it.
(09:08):
You know, for me, my story is one of just, it's not so much just coming out.
Like I've, like, I came to, I came out, and I stayed out.
And if I had to say that would be my story.
Hello, my name is Liana Henry.
(09:31):
And welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a MarCom and project management firm headquartered
on the east coast of the US in quaint colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
(09:54):
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish Story.
The moral of the Starfish Story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
(10:14):
One step, one starfish, or one story at a time.
Every episode, we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
So thanks for tuning in.
Now let's get started.
Today's episode is in honor of Pride Month 2024.
(10:35):
And with me today is my dear friend Danielle Smith.
In addition to being a research administrator for life sciences at a large university in
Michigan, she is a proud for mama, musician, talented photographer and member of the LGBTQ
plus community.
Danielle is joining me today to share her journey and some insights she learned along
(10:56):
the way.
So thank you so much for being here.
We're really excited to have you.
Thank you very much for having me.
It's an honor.
We'd like to get started by having our guests introduce themselves.
And you do much better job than I did.
So would you mind telling folks a little bit more about you?
Sure.
(11:17):
So I currently live in Michigan.
I grew up in the Boston area.
And I work for University of Michigan, which I'm proud to share.
They do a lot of the initiatives and I'm very proud to represent.
I don't represent you.
Am I represent myself here on this podcast today?
But I'm very proud to be working at University of Michigan and in the role that I am in at
(11:44):
the Institute in particular, who are very strong allies in the movement.
So nice.
So I loved hearing your story.
I've known you for a long time.
I have never heard it in its totality.
I love the concept of coming aware before coming out.
(12:07):
I think so.
I can only compare it to the queer folks in my family.
But for some folks, it was sort of just a natural evolution that they were going to
come out.
And then for some folks, there was sort of this urgency that they needed to tell their
story.
And so there was this coming out experience as opposed to being aware.
(12:32):
So I really loved sort of and I loved how you compared your wife's experience to your
experience and how that was different based on the background that you came from.
For us, this time of year is very, very important because on our team, we have straight allies,
(12:54):
gay, lesbian, and pansexual folks that all work for our company.
And we come to work every day of the year being our authentic selves.
But for this time of year, we like to use our platforms and channels to speak out about
why pride matters and to talk a little bit about how folks could help or get help.
(13:19):
How do you get involved with pride?
So here in Michigan, so I moved here about eight years ago pre-pandemic.
And so I haven't been as involved here in Michigan in pride activities except on campus.
And so we haven't, my wife transitioned with the pandemic, so it wasn't like time for social
(13:42):
activity.
So we're really feeling like now we're starting to venture there.
And so there's a massive pride celebration in Detroit in June.
So we're trying to think about our plans around that activity.
And so there are, and there's a lot happening in Michigan.
(14:08):
Michigan, my wife grew up in Michigan.
And so it's been interesting having her come back and have a different kind of experience
than what she had during her childhood.
It's much more open here.
We live in Washtenaw County, which is, I'm sure like the political spectrum has a lot
(14:30):
to do with this.
It's 95% Democrat here.
And so it's a very open area and the university has a lot to play in that role.
They play a big part of that.
So as far as pride here, I wasn't heavily involved.
I was more involved in Massachusetts.
So we lived in Western Mass for a time.
(14:50):
We lived in Northampton.
We like to say that's the pride capital of the world.
It's at every level and it's wonderful and such an inclusive town.
And it's actually, and it's home of Smith College.
So it's a reason why a lot of students choose to go to Smith as it's a safety thing for
(15:14):
them as well in terms of having a safe and inclusive environment as they experience that
through school.
But I would say there are five colleges out there and they're equally as inclusive and
welcoming.
So in addition to obviously the people that work, we work together.
(15:34):
I have family who identify as gay and when they came out, I remember everything was like
rainbows and let's get involved in pride and let's go hang the rainbow flag.
And I thought showing my support was being really open about it and out there and I'm
wearing all my rainbows, look at me.
(15:54):
But what I learned was that being gay is only part of the human pie, just like being straight
is only part of the human pie.
And being white is part of the human pie, being black, being Latino, being indigenous,
it's all part of the human pie.
And some of my folks have taught me that being creative and inquisitive, maybe loving to
(16:19):
cook, maybe being an athlete, being a loyal friend, being skilled at their jobs, being
very comedic or funny, all of this goes into making them who they are and all of that needs
to be acknowledged and addressed and loved.
And sexual orientation didn't need to be front and center.
(16:41):
Now you talked about in your story about how your family and friends responded.
You had family that was loving and some friends that were and some friends that weren't.
At least for the ones that were supportive, because I think people want to be supportive,
(17:02):
but they might not know how.
Did you find that you were able or felt like you needed to kind of guide them a little
bit on best ways to be supportive?
For some it was, I think, a bit harder.
I didn't have to guide them.
I don't feel like it's my job to guide them in that way.
(17:26):
People want to, I think people love you genuinely.
And I think people have their own stuff that they have to guide themselves through and
their own issues and biases.
I will share an experience I had at work.
And I won't name the who.
But sometimes people feel like they have to connect with you by naming, like, you know,
(17:50):
the conversation will start off like this.
Oh, so my gay neighbor or my gay friend, you know, it's like they feel like they want to
relate to you personally and they feel like that's the way to do it the most personal.
And it's really not like, you know, I mean, there's so much more to me as a person.
I'm highly creative.
(18:12):
I sing, I do photography, I write, like, you know, there's all these things that I do.
In addition to entertaining my fur babies 24 seven, who you may even hear on this on
this on this recording, you know, but I there's so much more to me.
And I'm a wife.
I'm a family member.
(18:32):
I'm a sister.
You know, you know, there's just and I think that, you know, this person was definitely
trying to relate to me by talking about their their gay neighbor.
And it just you could tell the awkwardness on the conversation.
And I would say that for folks, if you're an ally, don't relate in that way.
(18:53):
Like that'll eventually they'll eventually come be comfortable enough to talk with you
and they'll see you like them as a whole person.
And so people will will open up about all of them.
And you'll find very interesting things about people when they talk about themselves.
I've had young adults in my life feel the need to guide me, especially on things like
(19:14):
pronouns.
They got to the point with me.
I was never intentional.
I wasn't ever trying to be disrespectful.
It was new to me.
And but they got to the point where before they would even introduce me to somebody,
they would they would let me know, OK, this person is non binary.
They identify as they them, you know, don't call this person he.
You don't call this person she.
(19:36):
So it was like they were running interference for me so that I wouldn't like have a giant
faux pas and harm someone or unintentionally hurt somebody.
Right.
And I will tell you that even even I struggled with pronouns.
So you know, it's I mean, I grew up speaking English language one way.
(19:57):
And then, you know, we had we've had a whole host of trainings at U of M and which is wonderful.
And so we all struggled through this process together.
And you know, and and it's and it's extra challenging.
So I'm in an environment with with a lot of international people.
I mean, we struggle just pronounce names, you know.
(20:18):
And so a lot of times we will we will defer to someone's name before we defer to a pronoun
and then and that will be secondary.
But many of us include our pronouns in our signature line, which is helpful to a lot
of people.
Yeah.
So helps them to identify and to communicate with us.
(20:38):
Yeah, very important.
I think I was poking around your LinkedIn because I only know you from one area of life.
I didn't know you and your personal like your professional career.
And I see that you worked in higher education.
So some of my questions around that were and I think you sort of answered some of this,
you know, was your sexual orientation ever an issue?
(21:00):
If it was, how so?
But if it wasn't, in what ways were employers welcoming to you?
And then, you know, you have a D.E.I. department at U of M that is very active.
Have you been involved in any of their planning, programming, strategy, anything like that?
(21:27):
Or like your departments like contributed to anything to help out or so?
I know I've asked you like 10 questions.
That's OK.
So I'm going to answer the first one around being in.
I'm a research administrator.
And so I've been in research administration now over 24 years and I've worked at five
institutions and I will name them all proudly.
(21:49):
Harvard, Northeastern, Smith College, UMass Amherst, and now University of Michigan, which
I hope to retire at and done moving around.
And I will tell you, they were all welcoming.
I'm really glad that I came aware while working in academia.
It's like it's a really healthy environment for that.
(22:09):
And I'm really proud of the work U of M is doing in the area of D.E.I.
They created this initiative and it just it's skyrocketed at the university and it's done
from the roots level.
And so I actually served on the originating D.E.I. committee where we formed the strategy
(22:32):
for D.E.I. at the institute.
And so I was on that committee for a while and it was very interesting.
Actually, I learned a lot about my own internal biases and we had a lot of great discussions,
a lot of great dialogue, trainings and other things around forming this.
And our leadership is they are allies.
And so at the institute and at the university, but I will say strongly at the institute,
(22:56):
so much so that they perform.
They formed a position of D.E.I. director, which is unusual.
And so they this person lives at the precipice of science and administration.
And so they're able to communicate with both sides doing a phenomenal job.
And so I was very involved with that.
(23:19):
They do a lot of initiatives and activities.
It's a very inclusive environment.
Like it's almost like being in a sandbox where you get to play all the time and you get to
you get to choose all the toys you want to play with.
And that's all good.
And nothing is nothing is off the table for that, which is really nice.
And we really work hard to make sure it's inclusive at all levels.
(23:42):
I was going to ask about that because so just in my experience dealing with the eye, because
we had a director or officer or someone at a company that I tech company where I was
at and I just recently took a storytelling certification class for auto guided autobiography.
(24:06):
And there were some themes that now we're tying into D.E.I. because it's you know, it's
now you know, on the forefront, people are addressing this now where they probably didn't
address it before.
Have you felt that because D.E.I. I my experience has been that it's it started primarily around
(24:30):
racism and addressing racism.
Do you feel like it is also addressing sort of gender identity, sexual orientation, identity
issues as well?
I mean, what has been your experience with that?
It's mixed.
OK, and I'm going to take it from two different perspectives.
(24:50):
One is just from the perspective of activities at the university itself, like there's been
a lot more racial exposure, you know, if you will.
And but, you know, we we tend to take it from both from all angles at the institute.
So we're really very hyper hyper conscious of it.
(25:13):
I also work a lot with our trainees, so our graduate students and postdocs.
And I will tell you, so in my work, I submit fellowships for them.
And a lot of them are submitting to D.E.I. at, you know, fellowships and, you know, and
for the federal government.
And unfortunately, the Fed, I have to walk them through this right in terms of what's
(25:33):
required, what's needed and what the eligibility criteria is.
And the federal felt the federal criteria does not recognize LGBTQ as a diversity criteria
in these fellowship applications.
And I think that's really missing the mark, you know, and and I share that with the trainees,
(25:54):
you know, but I'm still required to adhere to the terms and conditions to have their
fellowship awarded and reviewed and potentially awarded.
And so it's it's delicate to walk through and we try to find the right fit for them
in terms of whether they meet any of the other criteria.
So I think I think I think it's I think it's a struggle and it's going to be a struggle
(26:19):
for a while.
And I think, you know, it's there's so much happening right now on the political spectrum,
like in other states, like we hear this about we hear this at conferences from other research
administrators that like how they're trying to deal with all of these issues in their
state where where they live in a state where they're not even allowed to have discussions
(26:41):
about the IAEA.
And University of Michigan is like, no, we're doing it.
And and I'm so proud of that, like they're not caving to any kinds of political pressures.
But I think I think Michigan's gone a little blue and overall, so I think that's a good
thing.
You know, that was definitely something we talked about before moving here, too, and
(27:03):
whether that would be a concern for us.
And you know, and we're here because of family and affordability, frankly.
And you know, you live in the Boston area, you know.
And so but mostly family and the lifestyle is is is really nice in the Midwest.
(27:24):
I'm not missing Boston traffic.
Sorry, friends.
And and it's what do you mean?
I love my 10 minute commute to work.
You know, it's it's not so bad.
And you know, but it's just things are a little just neighborly in the Midwest is, I think
(27:45):
it's a very different approach to things.
And I think here in Michigan, it's it's evolved a lot.
It's changed a lot.
And people's perspectives have changed a lot.
And I think you have to be in for the long haul with these issues, you know, and there
will be there will be setbacks.
And then just to stay strong through them, I think is really important.
(28:05):
And to be engaged as much as possible.
I think that's really important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think thank you for saying all of that, because it sounds like, you know, here's
a university that's trying to do the right thing.
But you know, sometimes when you're an organization that has some sort of federal grants and sort
(28:26):
of those those ties back to federal regulations, it becomes dicey.
I remember a situation I was working for this company that's very, very welcoming, very
open, like had, you know, a LGBTQ ERG.
Like it was just a really open and we wanted to do a presentation as as the group.
(28:52):
And because there was some sort of regulation, because the company was taking federal had
federal contracts of some sort and somehow were tied to this, they we weren't allowed
to have the training because it was an LGBTQ type thing.
(29:12):
And our one of our folks that are running for president was president at the time.
And that was a big reason why.
But you know, I can see sort of that, you know, organizations really have to walk the
line between being inclusive and being tied to, you know, outside agencies and policies.
(29:41):
So that that's tricky stuff.
You know, I I follow obviously all the news and and everything that's happening in the
LGBTQ community.
Obviously, I have people in my life that I love that are impacted by by these things.
You know, it's my opinion that LGBTQ community is remains under attack across the globe.
(30:05):
Countries are tightening anti gay laws.
Pride events are being warned of terror attacks.
Couples are suing over transgender worker protections and gay couples are being denied
health benefits for IVF.
It's you know, it's just really scary.
And it speaks to why we all need to do things like vote, use your voice, address the injustices
(30:28):
to try to make change any way we can.
When it comes to social justice, I mean, you spoke a little bit about it in your work.
But when it comes to social justice, are there any other LGBTQ related issues that you're
pretty passionate about?
Yeah.
So first of all, I want to say that, yeah, it's it's scary now.
(30:51):
Like times are really scary.
There's a rise of nationalism and patriotism.
And I'm probably mispronouncing that, but that's okay.
But you get the point.
And then and a real concerted effort to attack the LGBTQ community, both abroad and here
(31:12):
in the US.
And and that's been going on for a while now.
It's I must feel like, you know, there was such a strong movement of feminism, feminism,
and I'm going to play off of this, that this propelled us into, you know, women's rights,
(31:33):
the ability to control your body, you know, voting credit.
I mean, that's only since the 70s.
You know, women can buy houses, women are CEOs running for president.
They're president of some countries.
Lucky them, you know.
And then, you know, there was so much progression in the world that those that don't agree with
(31:54):
it, I think had a lot of fear and couldn't handle it.
And now they're desperately trying to claw all of that back.
And I would say the best thing I do as a member of the community is to be open.
I stand strong.
I do not go in the closet.
(32:15):
I stand for who I am.
You know, other people be damned.
I'm sorry if that's a swear word on your podcast.
I'm not going to use the other word I thought of.
But, you know, I mean, yeah, so, you know, I think it's really important just to be open
(32:36):
and not to be afraid, not to live in like give into that fear and go back into hiding.
I mean, that's number one.
And then to fight for your rights.
And there are lots of ways to do that.
You know, we certainly support financially different activities and different organizations.
(32:58):
And then, you know, I'm not adverse and have not been adverse at different times to calling
up our local politicians and stating my opinions.
You know, what you do here in this podcast is supporting.
You're doing that in social media.
In my social media presence, I share that I'm married.
(33:20):
You know, my wife doesn't share because of the line of work that she's in, but that's
a whole other conversation.
You know, but and I have friends that do as well that are in the community.
They're very open about it.
We're very open about sharing issues or different likes on social media.
I tend to I'm a photographer, so I tend to share a lot of nature photos and, you know,
(33:44):
and spread love on social media and them.
Thank you.
And do my very nice music out on TikTok and other other social media platforms.
But I think I think it's really the number one thing you can do is to stay open and then
the then and then get into involved up to the level of activity that you can support,
(34:06):
you know, and even if it makes you uncomfortable, like in it and especially if it makes you
uncomfortable, not if it makes you unsafe.
There's a difference.
Like if you're uncomfortable about something, it's always good to explore what that is that
you're uncomfortable about.
That's where growth comes in.
But if you're if you're feeling unsafe, that's a different story.
Right.
(34:27):
Right.
Yeah, that's important to take care of yourself.
So you're a photographer, you're a firm mama, you are a musician.
And I've been seeing you on social playing your guitar at I think I saw you playing at
(34:48):
like a retirement home or assisted living.
I saw it at like a gosh, it was like a farmers market or something like that.
It was like, how cool is that?
And I've heard you.
So I know how talented you are and and how much joy that brings you.
(35:09):
Do you participate in any groups or courses or choirs?
I know that there's there's one in your area.
It's called the Out Loud Chorus, a member of the Gala Choruses that are national.
There's a bunch of them all over the country.
(35:30):
And a lot of the members are from the LGBTQ community.
So but I didn't know, like, do you participate in anything like that?
No, I so I don't know that I have time.
So but it gave me.
Yeah.
I really I mean, it's it's really a wonderful organization.
And they've been on campus.
So I have seen that.
(35:51):
And unfortunately, that didn't align with our plans for me to go to their most recent.
They performed just a couple of weeks ago.
And so but they perform all over the place.
And I know we did partake in a lot of events when we lived in Western Mass.
We had more time then.
I'm really busy between work and photography and writing and, you know, all my other activities.
(36:16):
I do perform.
Yes, the farmers markets are apparently my gig lately.
That's new for me to put myself out there as a musician.
And so that's been fun to explore.
And the in the assisted living home, we I do that with a friend of mine.
(36:36):
So we call ourselves.
She's trouble.
We're a duo.
And so she she plays piano and I sing and play guitar.
And it's a wonderful gift.
So we were originally going there for her mom.
Her mom was a resident there and then her mom passed.
And so we continue to honor her by doing these performances.
So I performed Mother's Day and then Father's Day.
(36:58):
But I'm thinking about what activities I could possibly do as well.
But one thing I am open is when I'm talking with people or, you know, if they're asking
me about myself or my life as a musician, even when I'm at the farmers markets, I share
openly about being gay and being married.
And you know, and I leave that up to them to, you know, to process.
(37:22):
And I find that most people are welcoming.
You know, that's not an issue or concern.
So you you said at the end of the previous question, you said there's a difference between
feeling uncomfortable and feeling unsafe and to not participate in things that feel unsafe.
(37:42):
You know, we may have some listeners who are unsure or questioning or maybe not feeling
supported in their circles.
What should they do?
What kind of advice can you give them just from your own sort of experiences?
Well, first of all, I want to say two things.
You're not alone and you are loved.
(38:06):
And it may not be by the people that you think you should be.
And I will say just from all of my childhood trauma and every everything that I had to
deal with in terms of my my family, the picture can evolve.
I have a lot of family in my life and and have since since I took my journey down the
(38:26):
twelve steps and mainly because that's where I get a lot of support is from my family.
And they love me for who I am, you know, and but if you're feeling like you need additional
support, there are so many organizations out there.
They're like a Google search away.
(38:47):
There's many national organizations, GLAAD, PFLAG.
I'm going to forget all of the acronyms, but just, you know, do a Google search.
You'll find many of them.
Many of them have trauma centers.
We have friends of ours that they're they've been married a long time and they are currently
(39:10):
managing their child who is transitioning.
And as of as an LGBTQ family, right?
Like, you know, and and they're they're a lesbian couple and they're trying to figure
out and navigate all this and do it in a way that's healthy for them and for their child.
And so it's been really interesting to have them share that with us as a couple and to
(39:35):
watch them experience that.
And so and they too, you know, even they've been even though they have been married and
been out for a long, long time, they sought help and needed help in that situation.
So so, you know, when I say there's a difference between feeling uncomfortable and feeling
(39:55):
unsafe, like, you know, there's there's a lot of unsafe situations, you know, in life.
And, you know, and many of them, you know, they require action to get out of.
And so take an action for yourself and and reach out to any one of these organizations,
(40:17):
you know, and many, many are just a Zoom call away even, you know, which is nice to get
a person face to face.
And and safety is first with all of these organizations.
So, you know, and confidentiality.
So they will keep your information confidential until you are ready to reveal it as it should
be.
(40:37):
Mm hmm.
One of the the organization that we support this time of year and throughout the year,
different times of year is the Trevor Project because they deal with, you know, the youth
suicide suicidality and, you know, and they have so much programming and they do they
have a very tight security system for anyone who might be researching or learning, you
(41:04):
know, and in some countries, people can't find this website because it's not allowed.
So they do what they do a lot of really wonderful work.
So, yeah, we we we're interested in travel and we've expressed or just certain countries
we will never travel to.
We will never feel safe.
(41:24):
You don't need to name them all.
You can Google those two.
But and states and there's many states that aren't safe.
So some of my young people, we are very happy living in the New England states where we
are, you know, we we live in Massachusetts and we're probably going to move to Connecticut.
And it's also a very safe state.
(41:44):
So yeah, yeah, it's that's just the reality of this lifestyle that we need to live.
It is.
And and, you know, my wife and I have chatted that if we ever felt unsafe here, if tides
ever turned here in Michigan and we felt unsafe, we would gladly move back to New England,
(42:04):
you know, which would be great.
I would get to see all of my peeps more often.
That's right.
Yes, except on instead of just on Facebook.
Right.
For sure.
So great.
Anything else you want to add before we wrap it up?
Yeah, I just want to emphasize again, just sorry if you hear my dog's back barking in
(42:26):
the background here.
I just wanted to emphasize to anyone, you know, becoming aware or or going through or,
you know, just again, you're not alone.
You're not unloved, you know, and you there are plenty of people to help and there are
plenty of resources, just, you know, quick text or a phone call away and just just reach
(42:53):
out and, you know, and and stay safe and stay strong.
You know, the world is funny.
You know, this all of this could be, you know, a sound bite a year from now after the election
here in the states.
We don't know.
We hope so.
But there are many people now that are really advocating for for our progressive movement
(43:21):
and you know, that are wealthy people, which is great because we need a lot of that.
And unfortunately, that's what it takes for some of the messaging here.
And I would say, you know, do what you can to support those initiatives and and activities
and as well, you know, any activities in your community as well.
(43:41):
So I think that's it.
Thank you for having me.
This was so much fun.
Yeah, I know this is all the time we have for today.
But, you know, just hearing your story and getting to kind of talk about sort of the
reality of the world that we live in, but that there are resources out there, I think
was super helpful.
So thank you so much for being on the show.
(44:03):
Thank you.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Prime.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
Happy storytelling.
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