Season 3, Episode 7: Inspiring Entrepreneurial Stories from Tomorrow's Trailblazers with Nico Hessel
December 31, 2024 • 35 mins
Why are young entrepreneur stories so inspiring and what do we love about them? Besides being nothing short of amazing, they remind us that age is but a number when it comes to innovation and success. Our guest, Nico Hessel - founder of Upwork Outbound - shared his remarkable journey of how he turned his vision into a successful venture at age 21.
During this episode, Nico shares his passion for entrepreneurship, the roadblocks he overcame to become successful, and how your only path to failure is when you quit.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
Yeah, so my journey kind of begins when I was in college.
And so I went to college at Bates College up in Lewiston, Maine.
I played soccer there.
And I had a great freshman year.
I was a goalkeeper.
I started almost every game.
(00:25):
And unfortunately, I got injured during the season and towards the end of it.
And so afterwards, I had to have surgery on my shoulder and on my hip.
And so that was pretty much the end of my soccer career.
And I had to take the second semester off of my freshman year to have those surgeries.
And I knew if I wasn't going to be able to be at that college at Bates College playing
(00:48):
soccer, I didn't know if I wanted to go back.
And so that's what kind of got me going on the entrepreneurial journey, I guess you could
say, is I knew that I probably didn't want to go back to Bates College and I probably
didn't want to go back to college anyway.
And so I started going down the rabbit hole of YouTube, Alex Hermosi, Iman Ghazi, seeing
(01:09):
all these other people, these other younger entrepreneurs who are doing super, super well.
And so I decided if these guys are doing so well, why don't I give it a shot?
I think I could probably figure it out.
So I bought courses, started reading books and started my marketing agency when I was
19.
Kind of during that period, hadn't really dropped out of college yet.
(01:31):
I was still just taking a semester off, but I knew that I didn't want to go back.
And so, yeah, started a marketing agency somewhere in there, kind of had a falling out with my
parents.
There was a lot of arguments about, you know, college or not.
And some unrelated to college.
And so they ended up kicking me out.
And so I ended up sleeping in my car.
(01:53):
And I was lucky enough that there's super affordable, you know, office spaces to rent
in my town.
And so I rented an office space for $100 a month and spent, you know, every hour I could
working there, trying to get clients for this marketing agency I had started.
I was making cold calls, cold DMs, cold emails, submitting upward proposals, like just kind
(02:13):
of trying to throw spaghetti at the wall and see like what sticks, what I can just get
going.
I probably made, you know, 8,000 cold calls during that summer and signed one client, which
is my first client, which is cool, but it, you know, kind of clear that that wasn't going
to be the mode of acquisition.
So I had heard in one of the forces I had bought from this guy, Michael Gardner, that
(02:38):
he was using Upwork and having just a ton of success with it.
And that anyone, especially if you're in the U.S., it can just be a super good form of
acquisition to get clients.
Especially if you're doing marketing services.
So I started trying that out.
I was able to get a couple small clients.
You know, luckily enough, they left me five star reviews and then I was able to get a
third client who paid me $1,600 a month.
(03:02):
And so then I booked a ticket to Mexico and started traveling and just kind of went all
in on Upwork and then eventually started helping other B2B businesses use Upwork and then eventually
pivoted to help also freelancers and businesses, kind of all over the world.
And that's kind of, you know, where we are now.
(03:41):
Hello.
My name is Leanna Henry.
And welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a Markham and project management firm headquartered on
the east coast of the U.S. in Quaint Colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
(04:02):
We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish Story.
The moral of the Starfish Story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
One step, one Starfish, or one story at a time.
Every episode we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
(04:23):
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
So thanks for tuning in.
Now let's get started.
Today's episode, inspiring entrepreneurial stories from tomorrow's Trailblazers, is about
our talented guest and how he's paying it forward while becoming a successful entrepreneur.
(04:45):
Nico Hessell has been running agencies since he was 19 years old.
He submitted thousands of proposals on the Freelancer platform Upwork and has helped
dozens of companies and freelancers utilize this platform through his automated systems.
He went on to found Upwork Outbound, which has helped other service-based B2B businesses
do the same.
So thank you for being on the show.
(05:06):
I'm really excited that you're here.
Yeah, of course.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited as well.
So every episode we like to get started with our guests introducing themselves.
I don't know.
I mean, your story pretty much walked us through your journey.
Is there anything else you'd like to tell our listeners about you?
Yeah, sure.
(05:27):
So like you said, my name's Nico Hessell.
I'm 21 years old right now.
I've been running agencies since I was 19 and traveling the world since I was 20.
And last year I lived in nine different countries.
Right now I'm back in the US.
But yeah.
Nice.
So I love your story.
(05:47):
I've heard parts of it before.
You and I met on Upwork and our agency has its sort of fingers out in a bunch of different
platforms to just get our name out there.
And my goal for being on Upwork was to gather some more logos so that we could obviously
(06:08):
grow our company and get to expand and use our services to help others.
But I just, I really appreciate, I think the biggest thing I appreciate about you is you
didn't just create an agency and just do it for yourself.
(06:29):
You've created Upwork, Outbound, and now you're paying it forward.
And I know you're going to talk more about that in the show.
But I know I have truly benefited from being a part of your community.
And although I may not be out there getting as many clients as some of the other folks
on our Tuesday morning Q&A meetings, I've benefited so much just from hearing.
(06:53):
I just sit in the background and listen because there's always little nuggets that I can get
from that.
I just so appreciate it.
But today I wanted to talk a little bit more about the entrepreneurial story.
When you think about young entrepreneurs, people wonder why they're so inspiring, why
do we love it so much?
And I think it's really because young entrepreneurs really are just nothing short of amazing.
(07:17):
You remind us that age is a number and just a number when it comes to being innovative.
And you have remarkable journeys, but these young guns, you guys are young guns that are
turning your vision into successful ventures.
By turning unique visions into reality, these young business leaders are showing us the
power of passion, resilience, creativity, and hustle.
(07:40):
So based on that, would you say that's what it's been like for you too?
Yeah.
I would say particularly on the passion and hustle piece, I spend most of my hours working
but just because I like doing it, I just like building businesses.
So particularly on the passion piece, and yeah, the hustle obviously helps quite a bit
(08:03):
as well.
Yeah.
We're going to talk at length about hustle.
I want to have a nice conversation about that because I think you need it to grow a
business, but I think as time goes on and we'll talk more about it, it's how do you
find balance and have hustle.
And I feel like the fact that you travel as much as you do, I think kind of speaks to
(08:25):
that, being able to sort of get that passion of what matters to you and you're able to
do that.
So you shared with us in your story that you had to drop out of college and you said in
one of your social posts, you knew you needed control and entrepreneurship gave you that.
(08:46):
Did you ever learn about entrepreneurship in college?
So not really.
So I was in college for just a semester and I would say really where I learned and kind
of got really interested in entrepreneurship was mostly YouTube.
It was mostly just like self-education.
(09:08):
I still remember watching Alex Ramosi talk about, he's obviously great.
I'm a college fan.
And just seeing guys, yeah.
And just seeing guys like him who are crushing it and seemed like they just genuinely really
enjoyed it was where most of kind of like, you could say my inspiration came from and
why I really decided like I want to get into this too.
(09:30):
I want to see what this is like.
I also think for me, like I just really enjoy, it's like I played soccer.
I kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I played soccer my entire life, played
in Bates College as well, was pretty good.
And I don't know if I necessarily like soccer, but I really like just being able to be obsessed
(09:50):
with something and have like one thing that I can just be 100% focused on trying to get
better every single day at.
And so I think, you know, you can't play soccer forever.
And for me, it was only for, you know, 15 years or whatever.
But entrepreneurship you can do for the most part forever.
And so, yeah, I really like that aspect as well.
Yeah.
(10:11):
But I think the thing about entrepreneurship is, you know, Black Dog Marcom is the third
company I've launched.
And my two other businesses as well were passion projects too.
You know, you really, first of all, it's kind of those three things.
Like you really have to have a passion for it.
(10:31):
You really have to believe that you have something that can change the world, change, improve
the lives of your clients, you know, you really, and you just, you just have to keep at it.
It's just, you know, and you have to be, have a thick skin, really.
(10:52):
Because I learned so much about sales when I had to sell over $100,000 in advertising
for my business, because it was my baby and nobody else was going to do it better than
me.
And so, you know, and it was like, you know, it was like somebody said, no, I was like,
okay, next, like onto the next one.
I believe in this product, you know, and I feel like you've sort of shown us that that's
(11:17):
what you think too about your, your endeavor.
Yeah, for sure.
Especially because like entrepreneurship is guaranteed to have tons of ups and downs and
it's like, it's never, ever a smooth journey.
So I think, yeah, you have to have, in most cases, some kind of passion or just some core
belief that like, you know, what you have is excellent and it's going to help people
(11:39):
once you figure out a way to get it to them.
Yes, yes, yes.
So you said you started a marketing agency or content agent, I think I read somewhere
a content agency.
Do you still run that content agency or is Upwork outbound sort of the agency now?
Yeah, so Upwork outbound is the agency now.
(12:02):
So I started my agency, like I said, when I was 19, it's just my first business.
I ran that for about a year and a half and it was mostly a content agency.
We also ran some Facebook ads here and there, but for the most part, social media management
based and content creation based.
We had a small team of editors, a small team of graphic designers.
So not a huge team, but I really enjoyed that.
(12:25):
And then after about a year and a half, I was started buying consulting calls from a
guy who I had met in one of these initial coaching programs I had bought to learn how
to create the agency.
And he was suggesting, you know, you're really good at Upwork.
Most businesses in the US don't know how much potential it actually has and they also don't
know how to use it.
(12:46):
You should start teaching other marketing agencies and other, you know, accounting firms and
B2B service based businesses.
How do you use Upwork?
And so that's kind of how we slowly transitioned.
And I would say at the start, you know, we were, we were also mostly an agency serving
primarily businesses in the US marketing agencies and kind of helping them set up their Upwork
profiles, starting to submit their proposals for them.
(13:08):
We had a few different services and now we've more so pivoted to the community aspect.
For the most part, we still have a handful of clients who we actively manage their, their
Upwork process and we submit their proposals for them.
So for the most part, we've kind of transitioned into this community.
Oh, and it's hugely helpful.
And I have to say, I even when I dug in and just did what you said, it worked.
(13:34):
Like I had a client that week, weeks of trying to do it myself, did it exactly the way you
said to do it.
And within three days, I had a client like, and now she's keeping me so busy.
I like can't even do anything else.
Like it turned out to be this amazing match.
So it absolutely works.
So talk a little bit more about, like I know the community is really like, you know, and
(14:01):
I know, you know, having worked for big tech companies, you know, and having sort of that
subscription model become the way for that recurring revenue to happen.
And I, I believe Alex Hermose backs schools.
Yes.
Right.
Is that his, is his platform?
(14:22):
Yeah.
He's, he became a co-owner earlier, I think at the beginning of this year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he, I'm a huge Alex Hermose fan.
Like I, I've been a gym person since I was 15.
I've worked in gyms.
I've managed gyms.
I've been a marketing manager in gyms.
Like, you know, I'm a strong man, trainee, like I coach like a big, and I love gym people
(14:45):
because there's like no Ponzi scheme here.
It's all about hard work.
Like that's, that's what it is.
And I feel, I see that new, I feel that new.
And I know if you're following Alex, that's, that's how we've been indoctrinated.
It's about hard work.
Right?
Yeah.
For sure.
(15:05):
Um, I think another cool parallel is like, I grew up always just playing sports.
And I think like it's a similar parallel because there's same with the gym, like being
fit, being in shape, you can't buy it.
You have to earn it.
There's no, there's no way around it.
You just have to earn it.
Same for the most part, I think with athletics, you know, there are people who are, you know,
have incredible genetics in there, you know, have an advantage, but there's no way to buy
(15:27):
the skill set.
Um, it's just something that has to be earned.
And I think like the, going to the gym, um, and the athletics is a really close parallel
to business in general, because again, you know, it's inevitable that there's going to
be ups and downs and that it just requires hard work and there's no way to buy it.
You just have to do it.
Well, and I think you having come from being a soccer athlete, most of your life, the level
(15:54):
of discipline that comes from being an athlete, you know, I have, I'm older than you.
I have kids your age actually.
Um, and, and you know, they are all athletic.
And so a, the level of discipline, um, that is required, um, you know, the level and you
(16:16):
just, it just, you're in that hard work just becomes ingrained in you, you know, yeah,
it's just second nature.
Yeah.
It does 100%.
100%.
So when you started up work outbound, did you have a lot of like, did you feel like a
lot of Roblox when it got started?
Like, like, yes, what was that like?
Yeah, so many.
Um, so initially we started out, like I said, serving primarily marketing agencies, but mostly
(16:42):
just B2B service based businesses in the US.
Um, I took, you know, hundreds of sales calls and really came to the conclusion that the
vast majority of businesses in the US, they think of upwork as only for cheap work.
They don't think it's possible to sign high paying clients.
Um, you know, we have members who have signed deals with Pizza Hut.
(17:03):
I've spoken to Marriott, um, like huge deals, but it's not the public perception.
A lot of people just don't think it's actually possible.
They think it's a platform for cheap work or other stuff.
So, you know, I took hundreds of sales calls and for the most part, um, we landed a handful
of clients, but it was clear that we needed to pivot in some way, shape or form to actually,
(17:24):
you know, make this work.
And so at that point, I'd already been making YouTube videos for a while and, um, the channel
was starting to pick up a little bit more pace.
And so I, um, you know, eventually ended up pivoting to the community aspect.
Um, you know, there was a brief period in between the done for you service and the community
where we did a bunch of consulting calls, which was really helpful just to get to know
(17:46):
people and kind of where they were at in their journey and like what their goals were, where
they were at, what they were struggling with, which is super helpful in building the community.
Um, and just, you know, building something that people can actually get use out of.
But eventually we just did fully pivoted into the community form.
Um, so once we did, there have been less roadblocks.
There's still, you know, of course the day to day where plenty of stuff goes wrong.
(18:09):
Um, but overall we're growing pretty steadily right now.
So I'm, uh, I'm excited.
I think we finally found something that's going to keep, going to keep growing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I, I remember when I first met you, you had sort of a different model.
And then when you got into the community sort of introduced that model and, um, I just,
(18:29):
I really have a lot of respect for you to a, obviously you want to help people take what
you know and pass it on.
But you have to obviously have to make money too.
Um, but I think it's really huge that, that you're doing it this way because, um, I find
that things like things like this, um, like just like testimonial videos, things like
(18:52):
that, like the best way to market by services is when I understand what people's pain points
are.
Yeah.
For sure.
You know what I mean?
If I don't really know what their pain points are, I'm making 8,000 cold calls and nobody's
picking up the phone, right?
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
I, um, yeah, it's been super helpful.
(19:13):
And like, um, one thing I did in the beginning was I just put a link to my calendar on all
my YouTube videos.
So anybody who was watching could just book a call with me and I could say, you know,
who are you?
Like what do you do?
And what are you struggling with?
Why are you watching these videos?
Why did you book a call?
And, um, you know, you don't get paid for that for the most part, but it's unbelievably
helpful about just knowing who, who you're actually speaking to in the YouTube videos
(19:37):
and the ads on the landing pages, like just in all of your marketing and your copywriting.
Um, and I think that's another piece of like the hard work that most people probably don't
want to do because it's like, you don't get paid for it.
You're just talking to people all day.
Um, but it is just spent unbelievably helpful.
Yeah.
(19:58):
Yeah.
Now you're doing both, right?
You are providing the marketing services to clients and you're running this community
with people who need help.
So that's, that's awesome.
Um, you had said in one of your social posts that progress in the micro leads to progress
in the macro.
(20:18):
So I take this to mean small wins add up, right?
Um, can you share a story of a small win that truly became foundational to your success
today?
For sure.
So I think the most important or the biggest small win that, that I had was just signing
(20:39):
the first client on Upwork.
Um, so when I, so I was making, you know, thousands of cold calls.
It wasn't really working, sending, you know, cold emails, cold looms, cold DMs, nothing
was really working.
And I had heard, like I said, a guy in a coaching program talk about Upwork.
And so I started submitting proposals.
A lot of it didn't, you know, they didn't work out.
(21:00):
I wasn't getting replies.
Um, but what he had said to me made a lot of sense.
And so I wanted to keep trying it.
And, um, eventually started, you know, figured out, maybe I should submit proposals to a
few smaller jobs and just get something going.
And that's what I did.
And then I got a job for $60 that took me like five hours to do.
(21:22):
So less than ideal, but he left me a five star review.
Then three weeks later, he hired me again, um, again for $60, it took, you know, four
or five hours and again left a second good review.
And so, um, you know, my third client directly referenced those two reviews on our call.
And I don't know if he would have taken my proposal seriously or really taken the call
(21:44):
with me if I hadn't had those.
And, um, so I would say, you know, those two, just getting those first two small projects
were super important.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Well, you're, you're building the foundation really.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's talk about hustle.
Um, I read an article about young hustle and it was the rise of the hustle culture and
(22:07):
it was referencing millennials primarily.
And the, the, the angle on it initially was that the millennials are killing themselves
because they're working too hard and they're not taking care of themselves.
Um, so it talked about how, you know, hard work is definitely important, but you should
also seek a balanced approach to life as well.
(22:29):
Um, how are you balancing running your company, companies, um, you know, being the head of
the community and still managing self care or social life and any other personal pursuits.
If there's hours left in the day, I don't even know.
(22:49):
So I, uh, I spend probably 90 or 95% of my, my waking hours working just because I like
it.
Um, there's not really, there's probably nothing I would rather do.
Um, then just be able to have an empty calendar and be able to sit there and do, you know,
deep work all day.
Um, I just, I just love it.
(23:10):
I, uh, the other thing I really like is being able to travel.
And so like, you know, having the freedom to go wherever I want, whenever I want, you
know, if I want to pack up my bags tonight and go to Japan, like I can do that in theory.
And so, um, like I think the other thing I really like is like meeting other entrepreneurs
who are doing cool things, building cool businesses.
(23:32):
And so, um, like I went to Asia to Thailand because I knew there were two other entrepreneurs
there who were running a much bigger agency than I was and I wanted to learn from them.
And so I, I could just go, I could just book a flight to Thailand and, um, you know, live
in Bangkok, live in Chiang Mai for a while and just like be with these guys every day
and learn what they were doing.
(23:52):
And so I would say in terms of balance for me, it mostly comes down to just, you know,
just working because I like it.
Um, I don't have a ton of hobbies.
I play chess, I go to the gym, but for the most part it's, it's work because I like doing
it.
Do you sleep?
I do sleep.
Yes.
Okay.
Good.
(24:13):
Good.
I'm, I, uh, I don't drink caffeine.
And so all I have is really great nutrition.
Yeah.
Like hard workouts and sleep.
That's it.
I can fuel for the love, the demands of the business.
So yeah, yeah.
Keeping the body like healthy is such a huge, like something that I probably didn't put
(24:40):
as enough of a, cause I tend to like, when I really dive in, I go, you know, to the extreme
of like just doing, you know, spending all my hours working.
Um, but, um, I mean, even a few, I mean, like maybe a month ago, a few weeks ago, I had,
you know, surgery, I had an appendicitis and, um, kind of one of those like, you know,
moments where like, yeah, I should probably, you know, take a little bit better care myself,
(25:02):
like start going to the gym again, make sure like, you know, eating well and stuff, because
it helps.
Like you do need the proper fuel.
You need the proper environment to be able to work, you know, this hard.
And I'm lucky enough to, I have lots of caffeine.
Um, but, um, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I had, uh, I had gotten injured.
I had a sick, I got injured lifting and, uh, I had not warmed up enough and I was doing
(25:29):
a heavy lift and, and I pulled and I twisted and I got a sciatica.
Uh, that's the worst.
And I was literally on my back, like for the, for a whole month and it was a, it was a lesson
in acceptance and patience, but it really kind of gave me a wake up call around, I'm
the head of this.
(25:50):
Yeah.
What's my plan?
If I'm not the, if I'm not running this and there's clients counting on me, what's my
plan?
I literally was taking zoom calls, camera off on like laying on the floor.
Yeah.
You do what you gotta do.
Right.
Exactly.
It's a cool thing that you brought that up because that was similar for like, for me,
I was, I was doing everything in the community, answering people, answering all the, I still
(26:12):
offer one-on-one support to everybody.
So answering all the DMs, answering, and, um, you know, we have hundreds of members.
And so it gets to be a lot of inflow.
And once I had, you know, I, I, my mom's a doctor.
And so I, you know, I was having pain called her and she's like, yeah, go to the hospital.
You probably have an appendicitis.
And I had a similar moment was like, I was like, oh shoot, like I don't have anybody
(26:34):
else to help me with this.
And luckily enough, I've had, you know, someone who's in the community previously who still
is in there kind of become an admin, which has been super cool.
And so, but yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think a lot of times it takes one of these like extreme kind of like wake up calls for
you to actually, you know, implement what, you know, I probably knew I should have implemented
(26:55):
before, but just hadn't.
Yeah.
It's important to have a backup.
It's definitely important to have backup.
You know, I know that, um, I know Alex talks a lot about that.
I mean, he, he is the epitome of hustle.
Yeah.
You know, and he's, he's shown how, how that works.
Um, so I, I really respect him.
(27:17):
Um, so I was thinking about, you know, we have different listeners.
Our podcast has been downloaded all over the country.
It's been downloaded all over Europe.
Um, and, you know, different speaker, different guests have different, um, circles on their
social media.
(27:37):
So, you know, we've gotten to meet like we meet a guest and then we meet a friend of
a guest and then they become a guest and so it kind of all like grows that way.
Um, so if there, if we have any entrepreneurs out there that are listening, right?
Um, and they're starting, they want to start a business.
Maybe they want to start a business like yours.
Um, you know, what's one of the most important pieces of advice that you could give them?
(28:04):
Good question.
Um, I would say there are two that come to mind.
So I would say number one is like most people don't fail.
They, they quit.
Um, so I would say that the only way that you can lose or fail or whatever you want to call
it is, is literally just if you stop doing it, if you quit, because if you just keep
doing stuff and you're consistent, even if you're only putting in a few hours a day,
(28:26):
like eventually you're going to see some form of success.
It's, it's inevitable.
So the first thing would just be like, you know, we already talked about it a little
bit, but there's no such thing as like a super smooth path.
Um, and you know, it's not supposed to be like that because you learn lessons by, you
know, not having the smooth path and that's how you get better and how you, you know,
you level up.
So that would be the first thing is just like, you know, you can't, you only can fail or
(28:50):
lose if you decide to stop doing it.
Um, the second piece would probably be like getting obsessed and like being able to be
like, there's a great quote.
Like, if you're not obsessed, someone else who is is going to take you over.
It's not the exact quote but you're in it probably, but like being able to, to just
(29:14):
become obsessed with this.
Um, you know, I think about business all day.
It's essentially all I do just because I really like it, but just gives you such an advantage.
Um, being obsessed, being able to work hard because there are so many people who just
like start businesses, but don't work hard and they don't, they're not obsessed.
They're just kind of like doing these businesses, but you can learn and it is a skill set to
(29:36):
just be obsessed about this thing.
Um, I think, you know, there's no way that, that you can lose.
I agree.
A hundred percent.
I think also to, um, focused work is, uh, winning work.
Yeah.
Unfocused work ends up being mediocre work.
(29:58):
Yeah.
For sure.
I think that, um, if you don't have any, like if you, cause I, I agree with you.
I hear what you're saying about being obsessed.
I absolutely like you have to believe to your toes that your, what you're doing is going
to make a difference and you will the best person to lead this thing and to do this thing.
(30:20):
You have to believe that because if you don't believe in, nobody else is going to believe
it.
Right.
Yeah.
You got to believe it.
Um, but then I think people can be obsessed, but then be like flighty.
You know, and they're, and they're not focused, you know, and I think I see in you, someone
who's so focused, you know, you really, um, you know what you're doing, you know what
you want to do.
(30:41):
And I've seen, I've even seen you.
I've not even known you that long, but I've known you long enough to see you pivot.
You know, you've found other avenues of ways to be able to get the message out.
Um, so I really think it's super important to be focused.
I, I follow this woman.
Um, she, her company's called the house.
The bold her name is Aaron Balsa.
(31:02):
And she is, puts out these really great newsletters, these marketing newsletters and she's done
like big enterprise research papers, like a white papers and things and she paid a gazillion
dollars to do them.
She's really snarky.
Like she's really like, she's got that like young like edge to her, but if that's what
draws people like she gets their attention and, but she was able to, one of her newsletter,
(31:26):
she was talking about, she had just had another baby and she was talking about how like she
took off like a long weekend to go to France or something.
And she talked about like sitting in a hot tub or something and drinking French wine.
And, um, she took a break, you know, because she found herself as obsessed as she is about
(31:48):
what she's doing.
She absolutely lost her focus.
And, um, that can be a death sentence if it goes on too long.
Yeah.
I mean, you think about like big companies, right?
They, you know, like they have worker strikes and they start bleeding millions, right?
It's like, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
(32:08):
I think, um, one thing that, that kind of has helped me maybe avoid some of that.
Like I definitely see, you know, tons of value in like stepping back and looking at the bigger
picture a little bit.
Um, one thing I would say that's helped me and I guess another piece of advice that
I would give to somebody else if they're starting out trying to start a business is like, there's
(32:28):
nothing, but an Alex Ramose talks about this all the time, but like there's nothing better
to invest in than your education.
Um, and that's something I have never really stopped doing.
Um, you know, when I started, I bought courses, you know, a bunch of them for thousands of
dollars trying to learn just like, what do I do here?
How do I set this up?
Um, you know, after I was able to get a few clients, uh, I started buying consulting calls
(32:52):
from a guy that I had met who's a coach in one of these, these programs.
So I always bought like, you know, courses, consulting calls, books, mentorships, masterminds,
like whatever you can get your hands on to learn these skill sets because skills compound
over time.
And it's the one thing nobody can take from you.
Like this is impossible to take your skills from you.
You'll never lose them.
So I would just say like, try and define the skill sets that you need to, you know, be
(33:18):
successful at whatever company you're trying to start, whatever avenue you want to go in
and then try and, you know, buy the knowledge to get those skill sets.
And I think that helps you avoid a lot of roadblocks and just like some of those things
that you'll never know unless you speak to somebody who's like just miles ahead of you
in the same avenue.
Um, and that's just been super helpful as well.
(33:39):
Well, I think you have this curiosity about you.
And I think that's huge.
And education, like you said, comes in so much from so many different places.
Yeah.
You know, like investing in your education doesn't necessarily mean you're going to invest,
you know, you're going to go into debt to go to college.
Yeah.
There's so many places and like you, you've lived it.
(34:02):
So your experience is goal to people who haven't done it.
Like other people have been your mentors.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
I, um, I think if there's one thing that's like helped me, you know, achieve what I have
so far is just being able to get around people who are in the same avenue, but miles ahead
of me.
(34:22):
Um, you know, like the guys that I went to meet with in Thailand were the same guys
that I was buying consultant calls from.
Um, and, um, are just so smart and so far ahead of me.
And so being able to just be just being around them, even if you're not talking about business
has just been just incredibly helpful.
That's awesome.
That's great.
(34:43):
Well, that is all the time we have for today.
I really appreciate you being here, Nico.
I just loved your story.
I, you know, it's just so inspiring.
So I really thank you for coming and thank you for sharing with us.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
(35:05):
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple podcasts or Amazon, thanks
for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
Happy story telling.
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
(00:04):
at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
Yeah, so my journey kind of begins when I was in college.
And so I went to college at Bates College up in Lewiston, Maine.
I played soccer there.
And I had a great freshman year.
I was a goalkeeper.
I started almost every game.
(00:25):
And unfortunately, I got injured during the season and towards the end of it.
And so afterwards, I had to have surgery on my shoulder and on my hip.
And so that was pretty much the end of my soccer career.
And I had to take the second semester off of my freshman year to have those surgeries.
And I knew if I wasn't going to be able to be at that college at Bates College playing
(00:48):
soccer, I didn't know if I wanted to go back.
And so that's what kind of got me going on the entrepreneurial journey, I guess you could
say, is I knew that I probably didn't want to go back to Bates College and I probably
didn't want to go back to college anyway.
And so I started going down the rabbit hole of YouTube, Alex Hermosi, Iman Ghazi, seeing
(01:09):
all these other people, these other younger entrepreneurs who are doing super, super well.
And so I decided if these guys are doing so well, why don't I give it a shot?
I think I could probably figure it out.
So I bought courses, started reading books and started my marketing agency when I was
19.
Kind of during that period, hadn't really dropped out of college yet.
(01:31):
I was still just taking a semester off, but I knew that I didn't want to go back.
And so, yeah, started a marketing agency somewhere in there, kind of had a falling out with my
parents.
There was a lot of arguments about, you know, college or not.
And some unrelated to college.
And so they ended up kicking me out.
And so I ended up sleeping in my car.
(01:53):
And I was lucky enough that there's super affordable, you know, office spaces to rent
in my town.
And so I rented an office space for $100 a month and spent, you know, every hour I could
working there, trying to get clients for this marketing agency I had started.
I was making cold calls, cold DMs, cold emails, submitting upward proposals, like just kind
(02:13):
of trying to throw spaghetti at the wall and see like what sticks, what I can just get
going.
I probably made, you know, 8,000 cold calls during that summer and signed one client, which
is my first client, which is cool, but it, you know, kind of clear that that wasn't going
to be the mode of acquisition.
So I had heard in one of the forces I had bought from this guy, Michael Gardner, that
(02:38):
he was using Upwork and having just a ton of success with it.
And that anyone, especially if you're in the U.S., it can just be a super good form of
acquisition to get clients.
Especially if you're doing marketing services.
So I started trying that out.
I was able to get a couple small clients.
You know, luckily enough, they left me five star reviews and then I was able to get a
third client who paid me $1,600 a month.
(03:02):
And so then I booked a ticket to Mexico and started traveling and just kind of went all
in on Upwork and then eventually started helping other B2B businesses use Upwork and then eventually
pivoted to help also freelancers and businesses, kind of all over the world.
And that's kind of, you know, where we are now.
(03:41):
Hello.
My name is Leanna Henry.
And welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a Markham and project management firm headquartered on
the east coast of the U.S. in Quaint Colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
(04:02):
We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish Story.
The moral of the Starfish Story is based on the power of one.
No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact.
One step, one Starfish, or one story at a time.
Every episode we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
(04:23):
and connect with you.
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready to tell their
own stories.
So thanks for tuning in.
Now let's get started.
Today's episode, inspiring entrepreneurial stories from tomorrow's Trailblazers, is about
our talented guest and how he's paying it forward while becoming a successful entrepreneur.
(04:45):
Nico Hessell has been running agencies since he was 19 years old.
He submitted thousands of proposals on the Freelancer platform Upwork and has helped
dozens of companies and freelancers utilize this platform through his automated systems.
He went on to found Upwork Outbound, which has helped other service-based B2B businesses
do the same.
So thank you for being on the show.
(05:06):
I'm really excited that you're here.
Yeah, of course.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited as well.
So every episode we like to get started with our guests introducing themselves.
I don't know.
I mean, your story pretty much walked us through your journey.
Is there anything else you'd like to tell our listeners about you?
Yeah, sure.
(05:27):
So like you said, my name's Nico Hessell.
I'm 21 years old right now.
I've been running agencies since I was 19 and traveling the world since I was 20.
And last year I lived in nine different countries.
Right now I'm back in the US.
But yeah.
Nice.
So I love your story.
(05:47):
I've heard parts of it before.
You and I met on Upwork and our agency has its sort of fingers out in a bunch of different
platforms to just get our name out there.
And my goal for being on Upwork was to gather some more logos so that we could obviously
(06:08):
grow our company and get to expand and use our services to help others.
But I just, I really appreciate, I think the biggest thing I appreciate about you is you
didn't just create an agency and just do it for yourself.
(06:29):
You've created Upwork, Outbound, and now you're paying it forward.
And I know you're going to talk more about that in the show.
But I know I have truly benefited from being a part of your community.
And although I may not be out there getting as many clients as some of the other folks
on our Tuesday morning Q&A meetings, I've benefited so much just from hearing.
(06:53):
I just sit in the background and listen because there's always little nuggets that I can get
from that.
I just so appreciate it.
But today I wanted to talk a little bit more about the entrepreneurial story.
When you think about young entrepreneurs, people wonder why they're so inspiring, why
do we love it so much?
And I think it's really because young entrepreneurs really are just nothing short of amazing.
(07:17):
You remind us that age is a number and just a number when it comes to being innovative.
And you have remarkable journeys, but these young guns, you guys are young guns that are
turning your vision into successful ventures.
By turning unique visions into reality, these young business leaders are showing us the
power of passion, resilience, creativity, and hustle.
(07:40):
So based on that, would you say that's what it's been like for you too?
Yeah.
I would say particularly on the passion and hustle piece, I spend most of my hours working
but just because I like doing it, I just like building businesses.
So particularly on the passion piece, and yeah, the hustle obviously helps quite a bit
(08:03):
as well.
Yeah.
We're going to talk at length about hustle.
I want to have a nice conversation about that because I think you need it to grow a
business, but I think as time goes on and we'll talk more about it, it's how do you
find balance and have hustle.
And I feel like the fact that you travel as much as you do, I think kind of speaks to
(08:25):
that, being able to sort of get that passion of what matters to you and you're able to
do that.
So you shared with us in your story that you had to drop out of college and you said in
one of your social posts, you knew you needed control and entrepreneurship gave you that.
(08:46):
Did you ever learn about entrepreneurship in college?
So not really.
So I was in college for just a semester and I would say really where I learned and kind
of got really interested in entrepreneurship was mostly YouTube.
It was mostly just like self-education.
(09:08):
I still remember watching Alex Ramosi talk about, he's obviously great.
I'm a college fan.
And just seeing guys, yeah.
And just seeing guys like him who are crushing it and seemed like they just genuinely really
enjoyed it was where most of kind of like, you could say my inspiration came from and
why I really decided like I want to get into this too.
(09:30):
I want to see what this is like.
I also think for me, like I just really enjoy, it's like I played soccer.
I kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I played soccer my entire life, played
in Bates College as well, was pretty good.
And I don't know if I necessarily like soccer, but I really like just being able to be obsessed
(09:50):
with something and have like one thing that I can just be 100% focused on trying to get
better every single day at.
And so I think, you know, you can't play soccer forever.
And for me, it was only for, you know, 15 years or whatever.
But entrepreneurship you can do for the most part forever.
And so, yeah, I really like that aspect as well.
Yeah.
(10:11):
But I think the thing about entrepreneurship is, you know, Black Dog Marcom is the third
company I've launched.
And my two other businesses as well were passion projects too.
You know, you really, first of all, it's kind of those three things.
Like you really have to have a passion for it.
(10:31):
You really have to believe that you have something that can change the world, change, improve
the lives of your clients, you know, you really, and you just, you just have to keep at it.
It's just, you know, and you have to be, have a thick skin, really.
(10:52):
Because I learned so much about sales when I had to sell over $100,000 in advertising
for my business, because it was my baby and nobody else was going to do it better than
me.
And so, you know, and it was like, you know, it was like somebody said, no, I was like,
okay, next, like onto the next one.
I believe in this product, you know, and I feel like you've sort of shown us that that's
(11:17):
what you think too about your, your endeavor.
Yeah, for sure.
Especially because like entrepreneurship is guaranteed to have tons of ups and downs and
it's like, it's never, ever a smooth journey.
So I think, yeah, you have to have, in most cases, some kind of passion or just some core
belief that like, you know, what you have is excellent and it's going to help people
(11:39):
once you figure out a way to get it to them.
Yes, yes, yes.
So you said you started a marketing agency or content agent, I think I read somewhere
a content agency.
Do you still run that content agency or is Upwork outbound sort of the agency now?
Yeah, so Upwork outbound is the agency now.
(12:02):
So I started my agency, like I said, when I was 19, it's just my first business.
I ran that for about a year and a half and it was mostly a content agency.
We also ran some Facebook ads here and there, but for the most part, social media management
based and content creation based.
We had a small team of editors, a small team of graphic designers.
So not a huge team, but I really enjoyed that.
(12:25):
And then after about a year and a half, I was started buying consulting calls from a
guy who I had met in one of these initial coaching programs I had bought to learn how
to create the agency.
And he was suggesting, you know, you're really good at Upwork.
Most businesses in the US don't know how much potential it actually has and they also don't
know how to use it.
(12:46):
You should start teaching other marketing agencies and other, you know, accounting firms and
B2B service based businesses.
How do you use Upwork?
And so that's kind of how we slowly transitioned.
And I would say at the start, you know, we were, we were also mostly an agency serving
primarily businesses in the US marketing agencies and kind of helping them set up their Upwork
profiles, starting to submit their proposals for them.
(13:08):
We had a few different services and now we've more so pivoted to the community aspect.
For the most part, we still have a handful of clients who we actively manage their, their
Upwork process and we submit their proposals for them.
So for the most part, we've kind of transitioned into this community.
Oh, and it's hugely helpful.
And I have to say, I even when I dug in and just did what you said, it worked.
(13:34):
Like I had a client that week, weeks of trying to do it myself, did it exactly the way you
said to do it.
And within three days, I had a client like, and now she's keeping me so busy.
I like can't even do anything else.
Like it turned out to be this amazing match.
So it absolutely works.
So talk a little bit more about, like I know the community is really like, you know, and
(14:01):
I know, you know, having worked for big tech companies, you know, and having sort of that
subscription model become the way for that recurring revenue to happen.
And I, I believe Alex Hermose backs schools.
Yes.
Right.
Is that his, is his platform?
(14:22):
Yeah.
He's, he became a co-owner earlier, I think at the beginning of this year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he, I'm a huge Alex Hermose fan.
Like I, I've been a gym person since I was 15.
I've worked in gyms.
I've managed gyms.
I've been a marketing manager in gyms.
Like, you know, I'm a strong man, trainee, like I coach like a big, and I love gym people
(14:45):
because there's like no Ponzi scheme here.
It's all about hard work.
Like that's, that's what it is.
And I feel, I see that new, I feel that new.
And I know if you're following Alex, that's, that's how we've been indoctrinated.
It's about hard work.
Right?
Yeah.
For sure.
(15:05):
Um, I think another cool parallel is like, I grew up always just playing sports.
And I think like it's a similar parallel because there's same with the gym, like being
fit, being in shape, you can't buy it.
You have to earn it.
There's no, there's no way around it.
You just have to earn it.
Same for the most part, I think with athletics, you know, there are people who are, you know,
have incredible genetics in there, you know, have an advantage, but there's no way to buy
(15:27):
the skill set.
Um, it's just something that has to be earned.
And I think like the, going to the gym, um, and the athletics is a really close parallel
to business in general, because again, you know, it's inevitable that there's going to
be ups and downs and that it just requires hard work and there's no way to buy it.
You just have to do it.
Well, and I think you having come from being a soccer athlete, most of your life, the level
(15:54):
of discipline that comes from being an athlete, you know, I have, I'm older than you.
I have kids your age actually.
Um, and, and you know, they are all athletic.
And so a, the level of discipline, um, that is required, um, you know, the level and you
(16:16):
just, it just, you're in that hard work just becomes ingrained in you, you know, yeah,
it's just second nature.
Yeah.
It does 100%.
100%.
So when you started up work outbound, did you have a lot of like, did you feel like a
lot of Roblox when it got started?
Like, like, yes, what was that like?
Yeah, so many.
Um, so initially we started out, like I said, serving primarily marketing agencies, but mostly
(16:42):
just B2B service based businesses in the US.
Um, I took, you know, hundreds of sales calls and really came to the conclusion that the
vast majority of businesses in the US, they think of upwork as only for cheap work.
They don't think it's possible to sign high paying clients.
Um, you know, we have members who have signed deals with Pizza Hut.
(17:03):
I've spoken to Marriott, um, like huge deals, but it's not the public perception.
A lot of people just don't think it's actually possible.
They think it's a platform for cheap work or other stuff.
So, you know, I took hundreds of sales calls and for the most part, um, we landed a handful
of clients, but it was clear that we needed to pivot in some way, shape or form to actually,
(17:24):
you know, make this work.
And so at that point, I'd already been making YouTube videos for a while and, um, the channel
was starting to pick up a little bit more pace.
And so I, um, you know, eventually ended up pivoting to the community aspect.
Um, you know, there was a brief period in between the done for you service and the community
where we did a bunch of consulting calls, which was really helpful just to get to know
(17:46):
people and kind of where they were at in their journey and like what their goals were, where
they were at, what they were struggling with, which is super helpful in building the community.
Um, and just, you know, building something that people can actually get use out of.
But eventually we just did fully pivoted into the community form.
Um, so once we did, there have been less roadblocks.
There's still, you know, of course the day to day where plenty of stuff goes wrong.
(18:09):
Um, but overall we're growing pretty steadily right now.
So I'm, uh, I'm excited.
I think we finally found something that's going to keep, going to keep growing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I, I remember when I first met you, you had sort of a different model.
And then when you got into the community sort of introduced that model and, um, I just,
(18:29):
I really have a lot of respect for you to a, obviously you want to help people take what
you know and pass it on.
But you have to obviously have to make money too.
Um, but I think it's really huge that, that you're doing it this way because, um, I find
that things like things like this, um, like just like testimonial videos, things like
(18:52):
that, like the best way to market by services is when I understand what people's pain points
are.
Yeah.
For sure.
You know what I mean?
If I don't really know what their pain points are, I'm making 8,000 cold calls and nobody's
picking up the phone, right?
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
I, um, yeah, it's been super helpful.
(19:13):
And like, um, one thing I did in the beginning was I just put a link to my calendar on all
my YouTube videos.
So anybody who was watching could just book a call with me and I could say, you know,
who are you?
Like what do you do?
And what are you struggling with?
Why are you watching these videos?
Why did you book a call?
And, um, you know, you don't get paid for that for the most part, but it's unbelievably
helpful about just knowing who, who you're actually speaking to in the YouTube videos
(19:37):
and the ads on the landing pages, like just in all of your marketing and your copywriting.
Um, and I think that's another piece of like the hard work that most people probably don't
want to do because it's like, you don't get paid for it.
You're just talking to people all day.
Um, but it is just spent unbelievably helpful.
Yeah.
(19:58):
Yeah.
Now you're doing both, right?
You are providing the marketing services to clients and you're running this community
with people who need help.
So that's, that's awesome.
Um, you had said in one of your social posts that progress in the micro leads to progress
in the macro.
(20:18):
So I take this to mean small wins add up, right?
Um, can you share a story of a small win that truly became foundational to your success
today?
For sure.
So I think the most important or the biggest small win that, that I had was just signing
(20:39):
the first client on Upwork.
Um, so when I, so I was making, you know, thousands of cold calls.
It wasn't really working, sending, you know, cold emails, cold looms, cold DMs, nothing
was really working.
And I had heard, like I said, a guy in a coaching program talk about Upwork.
And so I started submitting proposals.
A lot of it didn't, you know, they didn't work out.
(21:00):
I wasn't getting replies.
Um, but what he had said to me made a lot of sense.
And so I wanted to keep trying it.
And, um, eventually started, you know, figured out, maybe I should submit proposals to a
few smaller jobs and just get something going.
And that's what I did.
And then I got a job for $60 that took me like five hours to do.
(21:22):
So less than ideal, but he left me a five star review.
Then three weeks later, he hired me again, um, again for $60, it took, you know, four
or five hours and again left a second good review.
And so, um, you know, my third client directly referenced those two reviews on our call.
And I don't know if he would have taken my proposal seriously or really taken the call
(21:44):
with me if I hadn't had those.
And, um, so I would say, you know, those two, just getting those first two small projects
were super important.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Well, you're, you're building the foundation really.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's talk about hustle.
Um, I read an article about young hustle and it was the rise of the hustle culture and
(22:07):
it was referencing millennials primarily.
And the, the, the angle on it initially was that the millennials are killing themselves
because they're working too hard and they're not taking care of themselves.
Um, so it talked about how, you know, hard work is definitely important, but you should
also seek a balanced approach to life as well.
(22:29):
Um, how are you balancing running your company, companies, um, you know, being the head of
the community and still managing self care or social life and any other personal pursuits.
If there's hours left in the day, I don't even know.
(22:49):
So I, uh, I spend probably 90 or 95% of my, my waking hours working just because I like
it.
Um, there's not really, there's probably nothing I would rather do.
Um, then just be able to have an empty calendar and be able to sit there and do, you know,
deep work all day.
Um, I just, I just love it.
(23:10):
I, uh, the other thing I really like is being able to travel.
And so like, you know, having the freedom to go wherever I want, whenever I want, you
know, if I want to pack up my bags tonight and go to Japan, like I can do that in theory.
And so, um, like I think the other thing I really like is like meeting other entrepreneurs
who are doing cool things, building cool businesses.
(23:32):
And so, um, like I went to Asia to Thailand because I knew there were two other entrepreneurs
there who were running a much bigger agency than I was and I wanted to learn from them.
And so I, I could just go, I could just book a flight to Thailand and, um, you know, live
in Bangkok, live in Chiang Mai for a while and just like be with these guys every day
and learn what they were doing.
(23:52):
And so I would say in terms of balance for me, it mostly comes down to just, you know,
just working because I like it.
Um, I don't have a ton of hobbies.
I play chess, I go to the gym, but for the most part it's, it's work because I like doing
it.
Do you sleep?
I do sleep.
Yes.
Okay.
Good.
(24:13):
Good.
I'm, I, uh, I don't drink caffeine.
And so all I have is really great nutrition.
Yeah.
Like hard workouts and sleep.
That's it.
I can fuel for the love, the demands of the business.
So yeah, yeah.
Keeping the body like healthy is such a huge, like something that I probably didn't put
(24:40):
as enough of a, cause I tend to like, when I really dive in, I go, you know, to the extreme
of like just doing, you know, spending all my hours working.
Um, but, um, I mean, even a few, I mean, like maybe a month ago, a few weeks ago, I had,
you know, surgery, I had an appendicitis and, um, kind of one of those like, you know,
moments where like, yeah, I should probably, you know, take a little bit better care myself,
(25:02):
like start going to the gym again, make sure like, you know, eating well and stuff, because
it helps.
Like you do need the proper fuel.
You need the proper environment to be able to work, you know, this hard.
And I'm lucky enough to, I have lots of caffeine.
Um, but, um, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I had, uh, I had gotten injured.
I had a sick, I got injured lifting and, uh, I had not warmed up enough and I was doing
(25:29):
a heavy lift and, and I pulled and I twisted and I got a sciatica.
Uh, that's the worst.
And I was literally on my back, like for the, for a whole month and it was a, it was a lesson
in acceptance and patience, but it really kind of gave me a wake up call around, I'm
the head of this.
(25:50):
Yeah.
What's my plan?
If I'm not the, if I'm not running this and there's clients counting on me, what's my
plan?
I literally was taking zoom calls, camera off on like laying on the floor.
Yeah.
You do what you gotta do.
Right.
Exactly.
It's a cool thing that you brought that up because that was similar for like, for me,
I was, I was doing everything in the community, answering people, answering all the, I still
(26:12):
offer one-on-one support to everybody.
So answering all the DMs, answering, and, um, you know, we have hundreds of members.
And so it gets to be a lot of inflow.
And once I had, you know, I, I, my mom's a doctor.
And so I, you know, I was having pain called her and she's like, yeah, go to the hospital.
You probably have an appendicitis.
And I had a similar moment was like, I was like, oh shoot, like I don't have anybody
(26:34):
else to help me with this.
And luckily enough, I've had, you know, someone who's in the community previously who still
is in there kind of become an admin, which has been super cool.
And so, but yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think a lot of times it takes one of these like extreme kind of like wake up calls for
you to actually, you know, implement what, you know, I probably knew I should have implemented
(26:55):
before, but just hadn't.
Yeah.
It's important to have a backup.
It's definitely important to have backup.
You know, I know that, um, I know Alex talks a lot about that.
I mean, he, he is the epitome of hustle.
Yeah.
You know, and he's, he's shown how, how that works.
Um, so I, I really respect him.
(27:17):
Um, so I was thinking about, you know, we have different listeners.
Our podcast has been downloaded all over the country.
It's been downloaded all over Europe.
Um, and, you know, different speaker, different guests have different, um, circles on their
social media.
(27:37):
So, you know, we've gotten to meet like we meet a guest and then we meet a friend of
a guest and then they become a guest and so it kind of all like grows that way.
Um, so if there, if we have any entrepreneurs out there that are listening, right?
Um, and they're starting, they want to start a business.
Maybe they want to start a business like yours.
Um, you know, what's one of the most important pieces of advice that you could give them?
(28:04):
Good question.
Um, I would say there are two that come to mind.
So I would say number one is like most people don't fail.
They, they quit.
Um, so I would say that the only way that you can lose or fail or whatever you want to call
it is, is literally just if you stop doing it, if you quit, because if you just keep
doing stuff and you're consistent, even if you're only putting in a few hours a day,
(28:26):
like eventually you're going to see some form of success.
It's, it's inevitable.
So the first thing would just be like, you know, we already talked about it a little
bit, but there's no such thing as like a super smooth path.
Um, and you know, it's not supposed to be like that because you learn lessons by, you
know, not having the smooth path and that's how you get better and how you, you know,
you level up.
So that would be the first thing is just like, you know, you can't, you only can fail or
(28:50):
lose if you decide to stop doing it.
Um, the second piece would probably be like getting obsessed and like being able to be
like, there's a great quote.
Like, if you're not obsessed, someone else who is is going to take you over.
It's not the exact quote but you're in it probably, but like being able to, to just
(29:14):
become obsessed with this.
Um, you know, I think about business all day.
It's essentially all I do just because I really like it, but just gives you such an advantage.
Um, being obsessed, being able to work hard because there are so many people who just
like start businesses, but don't work hard and they don't, they're not obsessed.
They're just kind of like doing these businesses, but you can learn and it is a skill set to
(29:36):
just be obsessed about this thing.
Um, I think, you know, there's no way that, that you can lose.
I agree.
A hundred percent.
I think also to, um, focused work is, uh, winning work.
Yeah.
Unfocused work ends up being mediocre work.
(29:58):
Yeah.
For sure.
I think that, um, if you don't have any, like if you, cause I, I agree with you.
I hear what you're saying about being obsessed.
I absolutely like you have to believe to your toes that your, what you're doing is going
to make a difference and you will the best person to lead this thing and to do this thing.
(30:20):
You have to believe that because if you don't believe in, nobody else is going to believe
it.
Right.
Yeah.
You got to believe it.
Um, but then I think people can be obsessed, but then be like flighty.
You know, and they're, and they're not focused, you know, and I think I see in you, someone
who's so focused, you know, you really, um, you know what you're doing, you know what
you want to do.
(30:41):
And I've seen, I've even seen you.
I've not even known you that long, but I've known you long enough to see you pivot.
You know, you've found other avenues of ways to be able to get the message out.
Um, so I really think it's super important to be focused.
I, I follow this woman.
Um, she, her company's called the house.
The bold her name is Aaron Balsa.
(31:02):
And she is, puts out these really great newsletters, these marketing newsletters and she's done
like big enterprise research papers, like a white papers and things and she paid a gazillion
dollars to do them.
She's really snarky.
Like she's really like, she's got that like young like edge to her, but if that's what
draws people like she gets their attention and, but she was able to, one of her newsletter,
(31:26):
she was talking about, she had just had another baby and she was talking about how like she
took off like a long weekend to go to France or something.
And she talked about like sitting in a hot tub or something and drinking French wine.
And, um, she took a break, you know, because she found herself as obsessed as she is about
(31:48):
what she's doing.
She absolutely lost her focus.
And, um, that can be a death sentence if it goes on too long.
Yeah.
I mean, you think about like big companies, right?
They, you know, like they have worker strikes and they start bleeding millions, right?
It's like, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
(32:08):
I think, um, one thing that, that kind of has helped me maybe avoid some of that.
Like I definitely see, you know, tons of value in like stepping back and looking at the bigger
picture a little bit.
Um, one thing I would say that's helped me and I guess another piece of advice that
I would give to somebody else if they're starting out trying to start a business is like, there's
(32:28):
nothing, but an Alex Ramose talks about this all the time, but like there's nothing better
to invest in than your education.
Um, and that's something I have never really stopped doing.
Um, you know, when I started, I bought courses, you know, a bunch of them for thousands of
dollars trying to learn just like, what do I do here?
How do I set this up?
Um, you know, after I was able to get a few clients, uh, I started buying consulting calls
(32:52):
from a guy that I had met who's a coach in one of these, these programs.
So I always bought like, you know, courses, consulting calls, books, mentorships, masterminds,
like whatever you can get your hands on to learn these skill sets because skills compound
over time.
And it's the one thing nobody can take from you.
Like this is impossible to take your skills from you.
You'll never lose them.
So I would just say like, try and define the skill sets that you need to, you know, be
(33:18):
successful at whatever company you're trying to start, whatever avenue you want to go in
and then try and, you know, buy the knowledge to get those skill sets.
And I think that helps you avoid a lot of roadblocks and just like some of those things
that you'll never know unless you speak to somebody who's like just miles ahead of you
in the same avenue.
Um, and that's just been super helpful as well.
(33:39):
Well, I think you have this curiosity about you.
And I think that's huge.
And education, like you said, comes in so much from so many different places.
Yeah.
You know, like investing in your education doesn't necessarily mean you're going to invest,
you know, you're going to go into debt to go to college.
Yeah.
There's so many places and like you, you've lived it.
(34:02):
So your experience is goal to people who haven't done it.
Like other people have been your mentors.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
I, um, I think if there's one thing that's like helped me, you know, achieve what I have
so far is just being able to get around people who are in the same avenue, but miles ahead
of me.
(34:22):
Um, you know, like the guys that I went to meet with in Thailand were the same guys
that I was buying consultant calls from.
Um, and, um, are just so smart and so far ahead of me.
And so being able to just be just being around them, even if you're not talking about business
has just been just incredibly helpful.
That's awesome.
That's great.
(34:43):
Well, that is all the time we have for today.
I really appreciate you being here, Nico.
I just loved your story.
I, you know, it's just so inspiring.
So I really thank you for coming and thank you for sharing with us.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
(35:05):
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple podcasts or Amazon, thanks
for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
Happy story telling.
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