#130 - Francesco Sunseri - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Steep Stuff

(00:02):
Podcast.
I'm your host, James L'Oriello.
And today I'm so excited tobring you an episode, this time
with a return guest, Mr.
Francesco Senseri, one of mybest friends.
Super excited to have Francescoback on the pod after a few
months and just removed from hisfinish at the Mammoth 200.
That's right, you heard it.
I know this is a steep, uh, thisis a steep ask of you guys,

(00:24):
considering we are a short trailpodcast, but I am doing a
special presentation today justbecause Francesco kind of
batters back and forth betweenthe short trail and the long
trail stuff.
Um this one in particular, Iwanted to do a fun little
debrief of him post-Mammoth 200.
So that's right, we are doing aMammoth 200 conversation fresh
off of Francesco's finished,where he suffered immensely over

(00:45):
the course of two and a half,three days to get this thing
finished.
Um and yeah, we talked allabout, we talked about his whys,
we talked about how thingschanged in this vision quest of
a situation that he wentthrough.
Um, we talked, we got intoeverything logistics, crew,
food, feet, you name it.
This was a fun one.
Like I said, this is a specialpresentation of the podcast.

(01:06):
Don't expect me to ever do a200-mile episode over again
because I'm not really intothat.
But that said, I do find it veryinteresting when others choose
to suffer over these longdistances, and I think it's uh
worth a conversation.
And we did draw some parallelstoo.
We talked a lot about the pain.
The pain is a very differentthing between short trail and uh
these 200 miles versus this, youknow, horrible, terrible pain

(01:28):
over an hour or two hours ofrunning yourself up and down a
mountain versus this dull,horrible pain over three,
sometimes four days, which iskind of crazy.
So, guys, I hope you enjoy thisone.
I really want to thank Frank forcoming on the pod to help
continue to tell his story.
Um, it's definitely one ofinspiration, and I think it's
one the audience is gonna get aton of fun out of.

(01:48):
So, oh, also one last thingbefore I do sign off.
Um, for those of you listeningto this uh that might have small
ears around or might besensitive to foul language,
there are a few F bombs thrownaround.
This one is explicit content.
Um, I didn't edit out any of thelanguage, there's quite a few
out there.
So um, yeah, uh just if you havesmall ears, uh cover them up or

(02:11):
uh listen to this in uh in adifferent setting.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this.
Mr.
Francesco Sancerios, ladies andgentlemen, we are live.

(03:24):
Francesco Censeri, welcome backto the Steep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going, buddy?

SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
That's going well, James.
How are you, man?

SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
It's good, man.
It's good to catch up with you.
It's been kind of a wild monthfor you, so it's it's good to be
in the midst of a chat and kindof debriefing uh this massive
life, this journey that you justwent through in the Mammoth 200.
I figured uh, you know, firstoff to the audience, I know this
is a short trail podcast, butthis is a special presentation

(03:51):
of the short trail podcast to uhtalk to you about your journey,
um, especially given the factthat you've been on the pod
before, pick kind of pick upwhere we left off and and get
this rolling uh and learn aboutmore about you and what you just
did.
Uh how you feeling, man?

SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
Dude, feeling pretty good, actually.
I think what we're a little overtwo weeks removed from the uh
from the race and the legs arekind of coming back.
I ran yesterday, day before, andI thought I was like, oh, you
know, two weeks is enough, butwoke up the next morning and
legs are just extremelyfatigued.

(04:28):
It's like, all right, well, alittle bit more time.
I'm gonna get on the bike and dosome spinning because not ready
yet.

SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Oh man, you look good though, dude.
How was uh I I think we couldtalk about this as much as you
want, but like how was this pastweekend?
You got to pay or not pace, I'msorry, you got to uh hang out
with and crew uh your brother atuh Kodiak.
How was that experience?

SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
Oh, dude, we had a blast, man.
Um, it was kind of funny.
Going into the race, he was youknow giving me his strategy, and
you know, it's like you know, weknew Chad Hall was gonna be
there, Eli was gonna be there,and both those boys were gonna
take it out hot.
Um, Eli coming in sick to therace was kind of a question
mark.
And um go to the first cruisestation to meet Michelino, and

(05:11):
here he is 30 seconds behindChad, and was like, all right,
so we're not following our raceplan.
This is good.
And uh, you know, because hisplan was to kind of sit back and
you know just kind of kick atthe end.
But um I think by the halfwaypoint, um, Chad had like gapped
him up snow summit by about 13minutes.

(05:33):
Um, and then as the raceunfolded, Chad ended up
dropping.
Eli dropped before that aidstation, and then Mike ended up
in eighth.
And at that point, he was insecond or third.
But yeah, that race, um, somerandom dude.
Um, no disrespect to him.

SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Shout out to random dude.

SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Freaking came out, ran his first hundred K and just
paced the race really, reallywell and ended up winning while
these while these freaking, youknow, quote unquote
professionals come out there andabsolutely blow up.
Uh, but it it was really fun,man.
It's always it's always good tobe out there with my brother,
um, help him out.
Uh had him, uh the dogs and mygirlfriend helping.

(06:17):
And it was uh it was it was agood time, man.
Really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
What did you think about the race in general?
Like, was it put on super well?
Because I know it's been a fewyears now, and I like that
they've been putting this raceon.
And on top of that, I know it'sthis year was the first year it
was, I guess, a North Americanmajor.
Was it any different from likean I know you've kind of been to
Canyons before, you've seen whatthat's all about?
Like, what was the uh I don'tknow, what was the kind of
aftermath?
What did you think of the raceitself?

SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm gonna be a dick probablyhere and say I can be like the
finish lines, they're cool, theydo a good job with that, and
like you know, like kind of likelittle vendor village thing they
put on.
Um the eight stations alwaysjust kind of seem a little bit
lacking, uh, but it it was fine.
I mean, everybody was seeming tohave a good time.
Um, but as far as like how itcompares to when Kodiak was

(07:05):
previously uh you know owned byum another entity, um I don't
know.
It's a UTMB race, but I mean Ithink they had like 2200 people
out there.

SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
So wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
That was a lot of people do Big Bear was an
absolute zoo.
So uh other than that, it was itwas fun, it was enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
I don't know if you picked up on this, but I know I
did.
Uh is it just me or was there alot more Euros, I feel like at
this race?
At least like elite Euro men andwomen uh at this race more than
I'd seen in previous years.
I don't know.
At least maybe I just never paidattention, but like even more
than like speedgoat and likeother races, you would expect
more of a European vibe to beat.
Um, I feel like I guess becausethis was the North American

(07:43):
major that they they showed up.
Like like the French guy gotsecond at what the 100k, and
then there was, I think therewas just like a good assortment
of like Spanish and Frenchathletes as well.

SPEAKER_00 (07:54):
Yeah, no, when we were at the finish line, I mean
they were calling out a bunch ofdifferent countries, like
so-and-so representing you knowGreat Britain, so and so
representing France.
You know, I it was it wasactually uh yeah, it seemed like
there's uh quite a lot ofinternational athletes out
there.
And like you said, yeah, Frenchguy, French guy got second,
which I gave Mikkelino shit for.
It's like, dude, you can't yeah,French guy you can lose to is
Jim Walmsley.

SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
So this is true, yeah, yeah.
At least, yeah.
I I don't know.
We gotta I gotta I gotta textMike.
I dude, I almost sent them themessage about the the Chad
Kroger slash Nicolas Cage, likewith the long hair.
Like he does bear a strikingresemblance to Nicolas Cage from
Conair, like with the long hair.
It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
It's so funny.
I well, because go look at hisuh his UTIB profile.
Right, right.
Uh say you know, see what placehe came into, you know, a
certain aid station.
And I was like, oh man, he needsto update this freaking picture,
man.
He does, he does, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
I almost texted him like, dude, like I gotta stop I
I because obviously, you know,I'm throughout the day Saturday,
I'm like refreshing you know thescreen to keep checking like
where he's at and what he'sdoing, and you know, Nicolas
Cage is staring back at me.
So this is yeah, I think hewould take that as a compliment.

SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
So Nicholas, this Nicholas Cage and uh Connair
versus Nicolas, uh Nicolas Cageand what is it, the whale.
Um probably a better It'sprobably a better fit.

SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Yeah, yeah.
All right, dude, let's let'stalk about you, man.
Uh, I'm I'm I've been reallyexcited to have this
conversation for a while sinceyou finished.
Like, I think this was abeautiful opportunity to kind of
recap your race and talk aboutyour experience because I don't
know, it's your first timerunning 200 miles.
Um obviously it was like aserious journey for you.
You finished in you know ninthplace in 66 hours, 41 minutes,

(09:36):
17 seconds.
And this race, by the way, likethey kind of coined it as like a
200 mile race, but I didn'trealize it was 214 miles.
I thought that was just likepeople taking like wrong turns
and shit, but it ended up 214miles with 31,000 feet of
elevation game.
What's your initial reactionafter finishing?
Like, is this something you'dever do again?

SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
You know, it's funny.
I finished that race and I toldmyself, you know, yeah, there's
absolutely no way I'm running200 miles again.
Never mind mammoth.
I mean, I felt like mammoth, youknow, in the aftermath, it's
like, man, there's way too manyfire roads.
Like it just in, and I think Iwas just I was so beat up from
the race that you know, I neededsome time to process it a little

(10:16):
bit.
And I believe that, yeah,probably do it again.
I think right now, because Ihave Sedona 125 coming up in
May.
And theoretically, if I winthat, it gets a free entry to
Cocodona.
So I figure, all right, well, ifI get an entry to Cocodona, I'm
gonna have to go run it.

(10:36):
Um and I think more so becauseafter the race, it was knowing
that if I had taken care of myfeet a little bit better, my
legs had more or less the 200miles in them to run them a
little bit faster.

(10:57):
So naturally, the you know, it'slike, all right, well, if you
did 66 hours and you're you knowall fucked up, let's go and see
if we could do it a littlequicker.
So I think that you know, justthe competitive side of me
definitely wants to go back outthere and do it again just to
show that I can you know get inthat 50-hour range, you know,
you know, 48, 50 hour range, um,I think is entirely possible.

(11:19):
Um, with how the legs werefeeling, you know, but but you
know, the feet were fuckingmacerated and bruised.
So um yeah, probably do itagain.
I you know, yeah, I don't knowif I'll do mammoth.
I had a I've had a few people umthat I ran with that are like,
hey, are we doing it again nextyear?
And uh maybe.

(11:39):
I mean, I think that Tim andHillary put on a really, really
I mean, really great race.
Um, there's some issues with thecourse marking, but I think
that's kind of to be expected.
Um, you know, in a 200-milecourse, um, but some of the
intersections were poorlymarked.
I remember, I don't know, it wasprobably 25, 30 mile mark.

(12:02):
I'm running down the hill andcoming to a left turn, and I see
Rachel Enterkin coming down thehill from another trail, and
she's like, Don't come downhere, don't come here, don't
come up here.
And I'm like, Oh shit, like howfar do you run?
She's like, a fucking mile.
So yeah, some of us got a littlebit more than 214 miles.

(12:25):
I don't know if it was a GPSthing, but I think my watch
ended up showing like 220 by theend of it from like random aid
station wandering and then justlike wandering through bushes
trying to find where the trailwas supposed to be.
But um, yeah, to answer thequestion, short short answer is
yeah.
I mean, I think I'll probably doit again, but it really kind of
depends as to when on uh whathappens in Sedona.

(12:47):
So interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Now, if you were to do very well at the Sedona race,
I mean you've got a great trackrecord there winning Mingus uh
in 2024.
Yeah, is it 2024 or was it 2025?
It was 2025.
Wow, dude, time goes by quick,man.
Um after winning Mingus, you'vegot a good track record there.
Would it be it would obviouslybe Kokadona for the following

(13:09):
year?
So 2027.
Correct.
Interesting.
Okay, all right.
All right, so I gotta get to theburning question.
Uh this one might take up a lotof time, but this is this is the
one I feel like we gotta reallychat about.
Is you signed up for this raceas Teddy Tonelli, your uh your
podcast host slash like alterego slash like the man.

(13:33):
Um we had we're doing thispodcast as Frank Sinceri.
Why let's let's talk about thatdichotomy of like why you signed
up for the race as TeddyTonelli, what you wanted to, and
talk about like kind of thebackground as well with Max and
why we're doing the podcasttoday as Frank Sinceri.

SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
Yeah, it's funny.
So we we we entered the race asTeddy, um, and it all started as
a as a total joke.
Um, you know, started in onepodcast episode just kind of
clowning Max a little bit aboutthe king of Moab.
And the the guest that I had onwas like is like, oh well, you
know, mammoth is in yourbackyard, you know, you should

(14:10):
you should basically go toMammoth and you know just uh
make sure that Max can't claimking of mammoth, too.
And for some reason in my stupidass brain, I was like, this is a
great idea, um, and just kind ofran with it.
And you know, had multipleepisodes, you know, just shit
shitting on Max and you know,and all honestly, and it was all

(14:34):
in good fun.
Uh Max is uh Max is a reallygood dude.
Um, gotten to know him over thepast few months leading up to
the race.
And the whole idea was to reallygo into the race and run it as
Teddy Tonelli.
And as I got closer, and reallyit was kind of like a race day
decision, was I just realizedlike the monumental nature of

(14:59):
this race, and realized, like,look, I need to put all my
energy into just simplyfinishing this thing because
it's 200 freaking miles.
And I think that you know,people will say, like, you know,
you gotta go and disrespect thedistance, and kind of like how
Jimmy Elam did and absolutelycrushed it.
Uh, but I think that was atotally different disrespect for
the for the race, the distancein general.

(15:21):
Um, to be able to think that Icould go out there and both put
on a decent performance and thenalso do that in character.
Um, and funny enough, um, I hadtalked to a few people who said,
you know, like, oh, you know,here comes Teddy.
And when they heard my voice,they were like, wait a second,

(15:42):
like, what's going on here?
Like, that's not that's notTeddy's voice.
And um were slightlydisappointed by that.
And they had given me the uh theadvice.
They said, well, you know, nexttime just do it.
You know, when you go into anaid station, you can kind of
turn it on a little bit.
And I think I probably couldhave, um, mostly because when,
you know, when I get into an aidstation, I do like to be

(16:03):
pleasant and you know, kind toall the volunteers and um, you
know, joke around and everythinglike that.
So I think it was totallydoable.
But, you know, I think reallyonce I got to the start line,
the competitive side of meturned on, you know, I mean,
just like it kind of probablydoes for a lot of us.
And, you know, it it it wasfucking go time, man.

(16:25):
It was like, all right, let's dothis.
You know, I there's there's abunch of damn good runners out
here, and you know, I want to Iwanna try and go out and run
with them.
So uh I just ran it as as asmyself instead of um as the cot
you know the podcast persona.
So you know, I I think that theit it turned into kind of an

(16:49):
interesting thing because Iwould say probably at about
mile, I don't know, between mile100 and mile 114, you know, I
started second guessing why Iwas doing this, you know, and I
had realized that I didn't havelike a why for this race.

(17:10):
I I went into it as a joke, andnow the fucking joke is on me.
You know, I'm sitting here, myfeet are absolutely destroyed,
you know, mentally I'm checkedout, and you know, I I just
wanted to be done.
I was like, you know what, fuckthis.
I don't want to be here anymore.
This isn't this isn't fun.
Like I didn't have a reason tobe out there.
You know, I wasn't doing what Ioriginally planned, things

(17:32):
weren't going well.
So I think in that moment, youknow, I was when I was running
with my pacer, and you know, hehad brought up, um, he had
brought up, he's like, you know,well, why don't you just kind of
reframe that?
Why don't you find find your whynow?
You know, you're here.
And what that kind of turnedinto was having those guys with

(17:54):
me, quite honestly, was havingthe crew with me, having them
take up their time, their, youknow, their entire damn weekend,
shifting schedules.
I mean, my buddy Jonah, he's ahe's a barber, and he changed
his Friday schedule, Saturdayschedule, Sunday schedule.
And he works primarily on theweekends, so he had to shift a

(18:15):
ton of appointments around justto be out there last minute, you
know, because he knew that Ijust had it was just me and Adam
out there.
And, you know, he told me he waslike, he's like, I can't, I
can't let him do this alone.
So he came out there and youknow, just knowing that those
guys showed up, they were there,they took their time.
You know, I I couldn't bitch outat mile 114 and just you know,

(18:38):
call it quits then, you know,they they came out and once we
did that, we started having alot of fun and started running
better.
And you know, that's kind of howit morphed.
And I'm glad it did.
You know, I we had we had anabsolutely amazing time that
second half of the race.
I mean, the first 100 miles, weran it in just under 24 hours.

(19:01):
We were, you know, more or lessright on pace, and um, I'd say
maybe an hour, maybe an hourbehind.
Um, but you know, it's like,okay, you know, hey, we still
got time to do this, and youknow, so the the second half of
it, although was you knowexcruciatingly more painful than
the first half, uh, was a lotmore fun.

SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
How did you reconcile it in your brain?
Like, did you ever have like apoint where you're I don't know,
because like you gotta remember,like my brain is weird.
I I think in terms of runningreally hard up a mountain and
then running really hard down,and it's like it's over in an
hour, right?
It's just like a lot of pain andfeeling terrible, but it's it's
done pretty quickly.

(19:41):
For you, it's a it's aexcruciatingly longer time out
there and a longer set of pain,just a different type of pain.
At what point in time, like didyou ever it cross your mind
like, holy shit, I have ahundred more miles or 114 miles
left to go after you already dida hundred miles?
Like, did that did that messwith you mentally at all?

SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Oh, yeah, 100%.
Like I was I I was sitting thereat there was I think it was the
Taylor Canyon aid station andwas just kind of sitting there,
and that was gonna be my firstnap.
So took about an hour nap.
And thank God I did, because youknow, once once I took that hour
nap, I woke up and I did I didfeel better.
Um, but still it was like, man,I I remember getting up to the

(20:22):
top of Crater Mountain, which Ithink is like mile 130, 128,
something like that, and lookingover towards June Mountain and
just thinking, fuck, I have toget to the other side of that,
and then up Mammoth again, andthen back down.
Like, and it just seemed sodaunting.
I mean, I knew at that pointthat you know we were gonna we

(20:45):
were gonna finish, but still,like just the way that the just
the way that my feet werefeeling, thinking that I had to
go that many more miles, and youknow, looking at my watch and
still showing over a hundredmiles to go was just like why
are we doing this?
Like this is this is so stupid,dude.
Like, why are you out here?

SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
Um let's uh I want to backtrack a little bit
because I do want to get theplay by play more so because the
first day you looked, I mean,not that you didn't you looked
amazing the whole time, buddy,but like the first day you were
you were on the podium, you wererunning with all the podium
guys, like you were all over thelive stream.
I would dude there was there wascheers going on.
It was really fun to follow.

(21:24):
And it seems like once you hitthat hundred mile mark, things
just like completely I don'twant to say imploded, but things
started going south.
Was it a hundred percent likewhat like what did you do to
your feet that like make themstart to hurt so bad?

SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Yeah, so the the feet go so what it all kind of
started happening, you know,right after a little bit before
and after Convict Lake.
Um, I started feeling, I startedgetting some hot spots in the
feet.
And instead of taking the timeand just dealing with it and
just relubing them, taking aminute, um, and you know, just
just simply changing my socks, Ijust figured, you know what,

(21:59):
fuck it.
I can get to mile 50 and thenI'll deal with my feet.
By that point, they were alreadyrubbed raw to where like I had
to throw a bunch of KT tape downon the bottom of the feet just
to try to prevent that skin fromyou know continuing to uh to rub
down through the calluses.
Cause basically what happened islike on the on the balls of my
feet, those calluses essentiallyjust like rubbed through.

(22:19):
There was like two little likemarks on each foot, same spot.
And uh so I would say probablyat like that my mile 35-ish
mark, the feet started feeling alittle funky.
And you know, at that time itwasn't bad, like it didn't hurt,
but I felt it.
And if I had addressed it then,um, you know, probably would

(22:43):
have been a whole differentstory.
Now, again, you don't reallyknow that because it's still 200
miles, you know.
I mean, I could have beenrunning faster and then my legs
could have took a shit.
But um, you know, the first daymy legs felt good.
I mean, even from Crowley toGreen Church, uh, you know, feet
were eh, you know, not not awfulyet, but they were getting so

(23:04):
they were getting worse andworse and worse.
And then basically from GreenChurch to Taylor is when when
they just when they just wentsouth.
Because even when I got to GreenChurch, I don't believe I
changed my socks.
Um, because I changed my socksat mile 50 at Crowley Lake, uh,

(23:27):
but I didn't for that last like40.
So changed the socks, but myfeet were still dirty.
And I didn't put, I didn'taddress the bottoms of them
anymore, um, didn't reloube themagain.
So it was just reallyneglecting, neglecting the feet.
And running through that firstnight, uh, it was really sand,
super, super sandy terrain andreally rocky fire roads.

(23:52):
And yeah, dude, they just gotthey just got beat the hell up
through that section.
So when I got to the mile 98 uhTaylor Canyon, um, they were
they were absolutely fucked atthat point.
Um, we were trying everything wecould, like putting these like,
I don't know, these little likesupport pads underneath them
just to try to take pressure offof the the ball of the foot.

(24:12):
And um we eventually got itright and taped them upright and
you know, you know, got themlubed and everything, and we
were being more diligent aboutsocks and and and foot washing.
Uh so once that happened, it wasit was more tolerable.
But yeah, dude, it was um itstarted, I would say the feet
started it started earlier, likequite honestly earlier than I

(24:34):
expected.
Because, you know, even youknow, going back to Mingus,
right?
That was a fairly wet race.
I mean, like the first part ofit was all through the mud and
everything, and I didn't have asingle foot issue um for that
whole 80 miles, and I changed mysocks once, didn't even wash my
feet.

SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
Um, but it's just that that sand that's what I was
gonna ask you is if the ifbecause we talked about this
like a way ahead of time, therewas a lot of apprehension, not
just with yourself but otherathletes, that a good amount of
that course is very sandy.
So it's like, how do you keepthat from how do you keep that
sand out of the shoe?
And that's a difficult dance todo.

SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Oh, dude, yeah, yeah.
That was it, and that was youknow, I think that if going back
to that race or anybody runningit, I mean, just don't don't
take it lightly because you knowit was seemingly it was it it
wasn't a problem until it was afreaking problem.
And and you're running through,I mean, after the first 30
miles, it's pretty much that'spretty much your get what you're
getting.
It's just like decomposedgranite and sand, and it's it's

(25:32):
it's not fun.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Interesting, dude.
I gotta I gotta touch you tooabout like the mental part.
I I want to keep exploring thatbecause I just find it so
interesting.
Um so and I I don't mean thisdisrespectfully to 200 milers,
but like originally before likethis race went on and I see
other 200 mile races, like let'sjust say from the short trail

(25:55):
courses, like it's a it's just adifferent thing.
Like, not that I it getsdisrespected, it's just like I
don't view that in the same wayI view like a really hard VK or
a mountain classic or never didbefore.
But in that sense, it's it'sjust a different sport in its
entirety.
And I think there's gotta be alot of respect given to the
athletes that do it just becauselike there's so much so much

(26:18):
more exploration of the mentalside of it as well as the
physical side, but it's justdifferent.
I think that's the best way Ican describe it.
Um how how have you changedmentally after this race?
Like, has it given you morearmor to be able to deal with
really difficult things?
Has it given you moreconfidence?
Like, has it has it left youwith anything after the race

(26:39):
that you feel like just a newsense of confidence?
Because I just I just did that,like a massive thing.

SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, well, you know, and and to to touch on the
difference between like say tolead into that is you know, the
difference between short trailand long trail is one thing that
I realized that even between ahundred miler and this, the you
know, the strategic approach isso much different.
The race dynamic is so muchdifferent because it's less of a
you know a how how is my fitnessgoing into this?

(27:07):
How fast can I run this, youknow, 50k, you know, so on and
so forth.
It's you know, you have toaccount for sleep, you have to
account for, you know, again,foot care, you have to account
for your nutrition, you know, uheven more so than any of those
other races, you know, becauseif your stomach goes south,
things go wrong, and I in andthe sleep was a big one.
Um, you know, I think going intoit, I don't think I would have

(27:30):
done two hours how I did.
I think I would do have donelike little naps going into it.
So I think strategicallyapproaching these races, I think
what Jimmy showed us was thatyou can run a 200 miler fairly
quickly.
I mean, he he approached this asrunning 200 milers and and he
did, you know, obviously thefirst hundred being faster than

(27:51):
the second, but really stillgoing out there and and showing
that the sport is changing.
It's going from more of thatmental side and just being a war
of attrition to you know, we'rehaving serious athletes come in
there and be able to run thesethings.
So to the mental side of it, Ithink that's a it is a huge

(28:13):
component.
People always talk about ultrarunners being able to process
and suffer and things like that.
I don't think it that it's it'sa different type of suffering,
right?
Like you said, with with shorttrail, the mental part of that
is like, okay, I know this isgonna be over in X amount of
time.
It's a different pain.
Um, for the 200 miler, it was itwas it's just constant, it's

(28:38):
just always there.
And especially with the feet, Imean, you're striking the ground
every fucking step.
I mean, it's awkward, right?
So it's like, you know, and thendownhills and then the terrain.
It's let's put it this way whenultra runners come out and they
say, Oh, I love to suffer, likeit's kind of funny to me because

(29:03):
it's like I I don't know how howmuch.
I don't know how much thesuffering's different, I guess,
but excuse me.
I thought when I ran Cruel Jewelthat that was the most painful
experience of my life.
After this race, I realized thatthat wasn't fucking shit.

(29:26):
Dude, it was horrific.
Like, you know, coming down offthat summit for the last time,
uh my feet hurt so bad that youknow, I I I knew I couldn't walk
the rest of the way because itwas just gonna hurt.
It was gonna hurt just as much.
You know, um, you know, and Icould have took it a little bit

(29:48):
easier, but I wanted to go home.
I wanted my guys to go home.
I just wanted to be done.
So we we more or less ran mostof the downhill, you know,
albeit slowly.
You know, I'm you know, I'mtalking like, you know, 12, 14.
Minute pace downhill.
So I mean it's it's a little bitof it's just a trot, but it got
to the point where the pain wasso bad.
Like I was I was on the verge ofpuking.

(30:10):
Like it was it was bad, dude.
And um I think I put it in myrace report, but there was legit
a moment where I was talking toGod and I was just saying,
please just carry me for alittle bit, just take this pain
away for a little bit.
And you know, I think thankfullythat prayer was answered.

(30:31):
And, you know, there was amoment where I was going down
the hill and I was watching myfoot strikes, but the pain
wasn't as bad.
So I kept trying to like stay inthat moment, but you know, it
was fleeting, you know, the painwould come back and it was
excruciating.
And like, you know, at thatpoint, my legs were pretty
hammered, my left quad waswrecked.
And you know, it was at thatpoint, it was just like, all

(30:52):
right, just try not to eat shit,try not to fall down and make
this worse.
And um I think getting out ofthat race, you know, it's super
cliche at this point, but youknow, being able to sit there
and say, damn, you know, I I didthat.
Like, all right, I can handle awhole lot more than than I

(31:13):
originally thought, you know,from a from a pain standpoint,
because um, yeah, no, uh iteasily the most excruciating
experience um of my life by byfar.
Um it's crazy that people chooseto do these things.

SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
I don't know.
It's like uh why?
I I don't get it.
Like it's funny.
I um I don't know, dude.
Like I the whole like sleepdeprivation thing, the whole
like running in the dark thing,I I could never understand it.
Like that's for people wayharder than I am.
Um, like I like to be in my ownbed, I like to be like I said,

(31:49):
after an hour, it's over.
I can go on a joy run, I canenjoy myself, I can relax.
Like you're out there for dude,66 hours.
That's a lot of days, man.

SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
It was dude, it was all I mean, the running at night
wasn't bad.
Like, I I I actually enjoyed thenighttime running quite a bit.
Um, it it and really like afterthe first 24 hours, after I got
that little hour nap, um, thesleep wasn't too terrible.
Now, going from um like thesawmill aid station to Taylor, I

(32:19):
don't I would I I ended up uhcatching up with a runner and we
ran through most of that nighttogether.
And I remember him being upahead of me and we're playing
the alphabet game, whichbasically like you say A and
then you say like Ardvark, andthen I repeat that Bever.
And then you you try to gothrough the whole alphabet.
And I remember sitting there andlike, I don't know, like I'm on

(32:40):
G or something, and I wake upand I'm like, holy shit, like
how long have I been walking andlike sleeping, you know?
And and it I fell asleep liketwo or three times in that
section, and I didn't plan ongoing to bed there.
I kind of wanted to wait untillike 9 a.m.
the next morning.
Um, but I I just at that point,like, dude, I'm sleeping on my

(33:03):
feet, like I had to go to bed.
But after that first night, thesleep deprivation wasn't really
a thing.
I mean, the days kind of blurtogether and like the sun goes
down, it comes up, you don'tknow where the fuck you are.
And, you know, at that point, Iwas just kind of sleeping to,
you know, reset the legs, resetthe mind, you know, and there
was never really a point ofexhaustion after that, other

(33:24):
than like, you know, the thephysical exhaustion.
But the sleep deprivation,surprisingly, wasn't as big of
an issue as as I thought it wasgonna be.
And running at night was wasactually fairly enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
So can you talk about friends made along the
way, like with fellowcompetitors?
Like, obviously, you're therefor a really long time, you're
not moving at a pace that'sgonna be non-conducive for uh
for talking.
So I feel like there's a lot ofgood like conversations that
could be had in this.
Like, talk about some of thefriends you made along the way
and just the camaraderie builtand how that went.

SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Yeah, no, actually, I I did meet one dude, uh, his
name's uh uh Jameson.
Um can't be found on any socialmedia, so I had to go find his
business on Instagram because hehad finished uh like 12 hours or
so after me, um, or maybe eight,I'm not sure.
Um, and I wasn't staying at thefinish line or going to awards,
like I was like, fuck this, I'mgoing to my hotel room.

(34:22):
Um, but I had met him uh comingout of Crowley, I had caught up
to him, and you know, we werekind of chit-chatting for a
minute, and then he was like,He's like, Hey, do you know, do
you want to run through thenight together?
And I was like, Yeah, sure, youknow, that'd be good to have
company.
Um, and ended up being anawesome dude.
Uh, you know, he's uh he didlike adventure racing and all

(34:42):
that.
So we were, you know, we wereshooting the shit for that
entire night, just runningtogether.
Um when we got out of greenchurch, he actually left about
five minutes before me, and hecomes over to my a to our uh to
our van and he was like, Heybuddy, you ready to go?
And I was like, Oh man, justgive me a minute, I'll catch up
to you.
And it took me the entirefreaking climb to catch up to

(35:03):
him.
I just see his headlamp upahead, and I was just I was
running my ass off to go catchup to him uh and finally caught
him, and um then we finished outto to Taylor together.
He got out of Taylor againbefore me.
Um, but then his race took amassive dump because he ran um
through a section that wassuper, super exposed through the

(35:25):
heat of the day, and I wasmoving really slow coming out of
Taylor, and thankfully so, um,because that section ate up a
lot of people.
Uh, because by the time we gotto Crater Mountain, um, I had
picked up Jonah as my pacer, andthey were telling me what
position I was in and like whowas behind me, who was ahead of
me.
And I was like, oh shit, like Ithought we were way worse off

(35:47):
after that section.
Like, we because it was slow,dude.
And he was he was in that aidstation, and and he got I guess
he wasn't looking good, someheat issues and and whatnot.
And um, you know, thankfully,you know, that's when I actually
started running again andfeeling good going into the
second night.
And uh from there, we we wepicked up a lot of time from the

(36:09):
crater mountain to I want to sayit was the Grant, Grant Lake Aid
Station, um, almost to June.
Um, we ran ran well that wholenight.
And I think a lot of it had todo with the the fact that we
avoided that heat.
But um, yeah, the last time Isaw Jameson was from that green
church to the Taylor, uh, TaylorCanyon uh aid station.

(36:32):
So we spent a solid 12 hourstogether and uh we connected
after the race.
And you know, we're gonna we'replanning on going out to um to
Flagstaff actually in Decemberto do uh to do a little training
camp.
I'm gonna go you know tag alongfor a few runs with him while he
uh while he prepares for uh CocaDona because I believe that's
what he's he's doing this yearwhile I do um Sedona 125.

(36:53):
So yeah, it it's it's a cooldynamic of those races, you
know, because you get thatextended time with people and
you really I mean, you know,you're talking about some wild
shit, man.
I mean, you're talking aboutfucking traumas and you know, I
had when I had mentioned um, youknow, the girlfriend, I was
telling him about her and likehow I met her and like how

(37:15):
stoked I was, and I'm justsitting there like a giddy
little child, you know, talkingabout talking about my new love
interest, and you know, and youknow, go to talk about kids and
this, you know, and crazybusiness ventures.
I mean, it's it's one of thebeautiful things about that race
uh format is that you really doget to to meet people and uh

(37:39):
stepping back actually to thebeginning of the race, um you
know, I I went and said, youknow, went and exchanged rocks
with Rachel.
Uh talk about that.
I dude, it was so funny.
So um we were planning onexchanging rocks after she was
on the podcast, and I broughtthe rock that morning, and I
said, you know, I ran up to her,I was like, Hey, I got your

(38:01):
rock, and she's like, Oh my god,I got your rock.
So her one of her crew members,I think it was her her boyfriend
or husband, um, or whoever's theguy right there, like you have a
rock.
So he fucking pulls out thispiece of big ass piece of
petrified wood, and I'm like,yo, like, all right, I gotta go
find someone to give this to,you know, I like because my crew
hadn't shown up yet.
I'm like, I have to go findsomeone to give this to.

(38:23):
And she's like, You have tocarry it.
I'm like, Rachel, I can'tfucking carry this.
This is like three pounds.
Like, I'm like, Well, I'm gonnacarry your rock.
And I'm like, My rock's thisbig.
I gave her this little piece ofamethyst, and and she did.
She carried it the whole race,and she reminded me of it when
we were coming out of uh comingin and out of sum at one.

(38:44):
She's running out and she'slike, I got your rock.
And I'm just like, Yeah, I getit.
I don't have yours.
I'm not carrying that fuckingboulder, you know.
Because I told her, I was like,I'm like, I knew you were gonna
bring a massive rock, and she'slike, I'm not fucking around.
I'm like, dude, this woman isinsane.
Such a, such a, such a genuinehuman, uh, Rachel Rachel is.

(39:06):
I mean, what you see is what youget with her, which is is really
cool, you know.
She doesn't have that, you know,I don't know, she's not a
douchebag, let's just put itthat way.

SPEAKER_01 (39:15):
I have a question for you.
How how good is Rachel Andriken?

SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Dude, dude, every time I saw her, she was running
her ass off.
I mean, to be able to come intosecond place just a few hours
behind Jimmy, I mean, I thinkthat I I honest to God think
that if Rachel didn't take asmany wrong turns, because look,
as good of a runner as Rachelis, she's kind of a dink.
Love you, Rachel.
But she was she led us in thewrong direction as we were all

(39:42):
together, like three times.
We got lost within the firstseven miles.
And and and she was the she wasthe ringleader of the whole
thing, you know.
She we got lost that one time.
So we go divert up the trailthis way, the trail's going this
way, so we see all the otherrunners go.
So we have to go down the godown the mountain, back to the
trail, and then we get up to thesummit and she starts taking the

(40:03):
wrong way again.
And every time I saw her, shewas getting lost.
So I think that if she had beenable to stay on course, she
would have probably been closerto Jimmy.
And, you know, just with hercompetitive nature, I I think
that she really could havepushed him, honest to God, for
um for taking first overall.

(40:24):
And I think if you were to runit back, you know, all those
knowing all those things, Ithink we would have seen a whole
lot closer race, which is wildto think over a 200-mile race
that you know they could be evenas close as they were.
Um, but if she didn't take asmany wrong turns, and I and I
know Jimmy took a few as well,but man, like Rachel's the real
deal.

(40:44):
I mean, I I I'm seriouslyexcited to see what she's able
to do here in the here in thefuture as her um as her career
progresses.

SPEAKER_01 (40:53):
It's so interesting to me because like she, I mean,
obviously so good, you know,just like super talented,
insanely talented, and's had acrazy good year.
Like I I just wonder, and thisis just out of pure curiosity,
like, how does the body hold upafter running multiple 200 mile
races and 100-mile racesthroughout the year?
Like, how do you recover fromthat?
Like, it's so crazy to mebecause like I don't run crazy

(41:15):
mileage, but like I wonder likehow people can do this day in
and day out, and like I do it ata relatively high level, and I'm
just like, what the hell?
So it's very interesting to methat uh like how she can recover
and do that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
I don't know, dude.
I I I don't know.
I don't know if it's just justgenetically gifted or what, but
dude, yeah, it's it's prettycrazy.
I think she had ran like uh shehad ran like a hundred miler or
like a fifty miler a few weeksbefore that, and it's just like
yo.

SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
Yeah, it's nuts, absolutely nuts.
And yeah, I I can't wait to seewho she signs with and like how
their career progresses.
Because like I don't know, Ithink Finn has said it before,
and I think many other people inthe media space, um, and I don't
often get to comment on like the200 miler stuff or really ultra
in general, but like the onetime I do, I I gotta say, like,
yeah, like that's like possiblythe next Courtney to Walter or

(42:03):
you know, something bigger thanthat, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
So oh yeah.
I mean, I honestly after thisrace, I mean, I you know, might
get shit for this, but I thinkthat at this point she's she's
kind of taking the taking thetorch and she's running with it.
I mean, if we see I I think ahundred mile may be slightly
different.
Well, I don't know if we've seenthem necessarily head to head in
a hundred, but I mean Kokodonalast year, uh she beat Courtney.

(42:28):
Courtney dropped at Mingus atMingus Mountain, and um yeah,
Courtney Rachel beat her.
So we might be seeing a wholelot more Rachel and a whole lot
less Courtney when it comes tothe podiums.
But I mean, and taking nothingaway from from Courtney, she's
she's amazing and really haspaved the way for a lot of
these, you know, really amazingwomen coming out there.

(42:48):
Um, you know, because you havethe likes of Tara Dower, who was
also out at Mammoth.
You know, Rachel, Rachel beather handily too.
I think uh Tara dropped at uhsawmill, and you know, just and
and really she blew up, youknow.
Rachel put the pace on them andthey couldn't keep up.
And she she fucking held it thewhole time, man.
It was pretty remarkable.

(43:10):
So crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
I gotta ask you back to uh competition and stuff like
that.
Because I've run with youbefore, I know you.
You're extremely competitive.
I love it, it's amazing.
When you guys went out in thefront group, were you what were
you thinking?
Like in the sense where you werelike, I like did it felt pretty
comfortable for you able to runwith these guys?
Like, obviously, the pace wasn'ttoo crazy.
It was nice and probably, youknow, I guess runnable for a 200

(43:33):
mile or but like where where wasyour head at in the beginning?
Like, were you like, oh, I'mgonna break these motherfuckers?
Like, what did what did you wantto do?

SPEAKER_00 (43:40):
Not necessarily break them, but like I knew at
the end of the day, like I knewI could run um close to the
close to the front.
Um, you know, I think if I wasto do it again, I probably would
have slowed down the pace alittle bit.
Uh, because I think by the timeI got to mile 30, I believe I
was about an hour ahead of my myschedule, but I still felt good.
I I felt good physically.
My legs, you know, uh, you know,the training went well.

(44:02):
Um, you know, for for puttingtogether some half-ass training
plan between May and September.
Um, I think I think I ran withyou.
I was like, wow, you wereactually extremely fit.
Yeah, no, I mean, dude, I feltgood.
I mean, even going up to likesummit one, like that first big
climb, I didn't it didn't feelit didn't feel like I was really
pushing too hard.
But yeah, no, dude, I I I felt Ifelt fit.

(44:25):
I felt, you know, again, if itwasn't for the feet, um, I
really think that race wouldhave gone differently, which
again is why I feel like, okay,you know, we got to go back and
try to do this again.
Not necessarily mammoth, but youknow, the those those longer
race formats.
And I think Sedona 125 isactually gonna be a good test
for that, you know, because youknow, 125 miles, you're still

(44:45):
getting to that 100 mile mark,and then still have to run a
marathon after that.
So um, I think that'll be a goodtest to kind of see see where
we're at with the fitness, seewhere we're at with, you know,
just what we learned fromMammoth because the nutrition
was completely solid.
I mean, I was crushing neversecond gels the entire time and

(45:06):
never once had an issue with mystomach, eating plenty of solid
food, but going into it, yeah.
I I don't regret going out asquickly as I did.
I just regret not taking care ofmy feet like I should have,
because again, I had that extratime.
I could have sat down, changedmy socks, but I didn't.

(45:26):
You know, one thing was as Isaid, you know, let the race
come to you.
And I did kind of mess that up.
You know, I did get, you know, Iwas excited.
I was like, fuck, dude, likewe're feeling good, like, like
really good.
You know, all the little nagginginjuries that I had were gone,
you know, like my legs werefeeling good.
Um, you know, I had this nerveissue in my left leg that I'd
been dealing with the entiretraining block, and seemingly it

(45:49):
went away.
And part of me wonders if it wasjust like a psycho, you know, uh
it was just my brain like beingnervous about going into the
race.
And then once we were there, itwas like, okay, yeah, no, we can
run with these motherfuckers.
And um, you know, only time willtell.
You know, we go back and youhave to do it again.
I mean, you can't get ninthplace and say that, you know,
oh, you could have vied for thepodium if your feet were
working.

(46:09):
I mean, you have to put ittogether and actually go fucking
do it.
Um, so you know, I'm not gonnadelude myself into thinking
that, you know, oh, well, if myfeet were good, you know, uh
Jimmy Elam had someone tocontend with.

SPEAKER_01 (46:20):
But um Well, it's hold on, let me stop you on
that.
Because the only reason I wasgonna get into this was like I
after having conversations withyou and then looking at times,
looking at numbers, looking atsplits, and looking at like just
the metrics in general, like Ifind this to be really
interesting because like andthis is no disrespect to Max
because I really like Max as ahuman, but I don't think there's
much separating you.
If anything, I think youactually might be a better

(46:42):
runner than Max.
I just think with these races,it's very interesting because
it's a matter of figuring outjust the logistical shit, taking
care of yourself, getting theright nutrition dialed, and all
those things, I think actuallymake up substantial places
between ninth and fourth placeor third place.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
Oh, yeah.
No, I no, I would agree.
I mean, yeah, no disrespect toMax.
I mean, he came in and you know,he got he got third male, ran a
good race.
Um, but you know, again, I mean,I think as far as fitness goes
and just pure running ability, II think that you know, if I had
strategically, again, it's adifferent race dynamic.
If I had if I had listened to mybody, changed, you know, dealt

(47:22):
with the feet, I think a bigcomponent of where my mental you
know checkout kind of came atabout a mile 100 was just
because my you know, my feetwere fucked up.
I didn't think I could putanother 100 miles on them.
Like if they're already thisbad, um, you know, how bad are
they gonna be later?
So yeah, I mean, again, like I II fully expect to to see see Max

(47:42):
and all those guys again.
Um, you know, Edder Ramirez, whowe just recently had on the
podcast.
Um, great dude, great runner.
Um, his family's amazing.
Um, I talked to him a little bitafter the podcast.
It was actually kind of funnybecause uh his kids and his wife
were like, Oh my god, there'sTeddy.
And then, you know, again, like,which is a really another funny

(48:03):
thing was having like a dozen ormore people come up to me and
tell me, like, dude, I love yourshow.
And I was like, Fuck, really?
Okay, cool.
Like, you're nice.
You know, meeting meeting Max'smom at the start line, meeting
Jimmy's dad.
Jimmy's dad was actually reallyfunny, uh, because he came up to
me and he's like, he's like,Hey, do I gotta come out there
with a bat and you know protectmy kid?
And I was like, Oh no, no, no,because you know, we're making

(48:26):
fun of uh how me and Max weregonna um Tanya Harding Jimmy.
So Jesus Christ.
It was it was really fun.
Yeah, like dude, like being atthe start line and like having
all those people come up and belike, like, oh dude, like love
what you do.
And then they said meeting Max'smom and like her shit talking
me, and then Jimmy's dad shittalking me.
I'm like, dude, this is fuckingwild.

(48:47):
Like, this is so this is it wasit was it was it was fun, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
I love it.
I love it.
I I want to backtrack to thenights, um, hallucinations.
Like, did you get to meet thealiens at all?
Like, what were the what werethe hallucinations like?

SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
No, dude.
Um, so I didn't have anyhallucinations other than there
was one point we were at uh Ithink it was Little Walker Lake,
um, and actually a lot of weirdshit happened out there.
Um on the live stream, one of mycrew members was extremely
exhausted and possibly a littlebit high.
And they were interviewing him,and he was telling a story of we

(49:21):
were running through a section,like coming up to the lake, and
we heard like a cat, like a cat,like meow.
And I don't know if cats or ifbobcats do that, I have no clue,
but we heard a meow and we'relike, yo, like what the fuck was
that?
At that point, I didn't give ashit.
Like, it was almost like, allright, like if we have to fight

(49:42):
a mountain lion at this point,that kind of checks out.
Like, why not?
Um, but we heard this cat meow,and then we're running by the
lake, and we hear like bouldersfalling into the lake, and like
legit, like a giant rock waslike splashed into the lake, and
then it happened again.
And so I was like, Oh shit, isthat like a person or like

(50:02):
Bigfoot?
Like, I don't know, it couldhave been.
I'm assuming it was a person,but dude, it was pitch black and
nobody was out there.
It was super bizarre, and Iwasn't the only one that heard
it.
My crew member heard it too, sothere was no hallucination
there.
That being said, as we werecrossing a log in that same

(50:22):
section, I like walk up to it,and the log is like moving like
this.
And I was like, Hey, dude, isthat log moving?
And he's like, No, all right,but other than that, dude, like
no visuals or anything likethat, like no like crazy
hallucinations.
It was just that one log justlike rippling.

(50:43):
It was fucking weird.
Um, but yeah, other than that,no, no, no crazy hallucination
stories, just falling asleep onmy feet and yeah, moving logs
and meowing cats and bouldersfalling in lakes, but it was
like all in one section.
So I don't know, maybe we wereboth tripping balls, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 (51:00):
Man, I don't know, dude.
Like that would have been, Idon't know.
I feel like if I would have notthat I'll ever do a race like
this, but if I was to, I thinklike the the goal would be to
somehow meet the aliens, youknow, with through through the
hallucination, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (51:11):
I was kind of you know, it's funny, dude, because
like in my career, um, I'veworked I've worked industrial
construction pretty much mywhole life.
So we're you know, no strangerto to 18 hour, 24 hour shifts at
time.
And so and I've never been greatwith sleep anyway.
So like staying up for 36 hours,48 hours, like it's it's it's

(51:32):
been done before.
So I don't know if it's likeyour brain just kind of gets
used to that shit, but like Ididn't have any any and I know
some people hallucinate theirass off, but like I didn't I I
didn't experience that like atall.
Um I don't know if it's justlike being used to sleep
deprivation, which you know, andmaybe my brain just is just

(51:53):
always functioning on some sortof like mild hallucination.
I'm not sure.
Um no, no, dude.
It was uh I was actually kind oflooking forward to it too, like
you know, to kind of see whatthat whole portion of it would
be, but like it was never anissue.

SPEAKER_01 (52:08):
I I want to um shift gears a little bit.
So this is not um obviously wedon't can contain illicit drug
use on the Steep Stuff podcast.
However, um I know some of yourcompetitors were using
mushrooms.
Let's talk about that in thesense where do you think there's
like performance improvementfrom that?
Is this the place to do that?

(52:30):
Like, what are your thoughts onthat?
200 mile races.

SPEAKER_00 (52:33):
Yeah, so okay, so yeah, to clarify, so I was
actually talking to Jimmy on thepodcast.
We had uh talked about the ideaof him taking mushrooms during
the race.
After we debriefed afterwards,he told me he's like, he's like,
no, dude, he's like, I decidedagainst it only because of the
appetite uh suppression thatcould happen from taking
mushrooms.

(52:53):
He was like, I didn't want my mynutrition to fall off because of
it.
Um, but I did hear that Jimmywas like at aid stations, like
just ripping bong loads, whichis fucking hilarious.
But no, like the the mushroomsweren't weren't used.
I mean, uh our crew, so my buddyJonah, he actually had a uh a
pack of like micro, likemicro-dose um mushrooms, and he

(53:16):
was like, hey, you know, we'lluse them a second night if shit
goes horribly wrong.
That ended up turning into daytwo, um, when shit went horribly
wrong.
And there was like, I think itwas like 0.5 grams, milligrams,
whatever it was.
It was like a super low dose.
And so we would basically takeone every five hours.

(53:38):
And um it seemed to help alittle bit with the pain.
Um again, it which is funnythough, because during the with
the sleep deprivation and thenlike taking those consecutively,
never had you know anyhallucination or visuals.
Um, I think possibly there was aI think there's a slight
dissociation effect with it towhere that's where the pain

(54:02):
portion kind of comes in.
Um and I think visual acuity isslightly elevated.
Um but I definitely think thatit's something that could be
explored because we wereactually looking at um the Wada
website and psilocybin isn't abanned substance.
I was gonna ask about that.

SPEAKER_01 (54:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (54:21):
Yeah, and after after doing the microdosing, um,
you know, not doing like a herodose and just like tripping
balls, I think that would be itsown clusterfuck.
Um but I I think there'ssomething to it, man.
And I wouldn't be surprised if,you know, somebody does a little
bit of experimenting with it andyou know, mixing that with some

(54:42):
other like other types ofmushrooms, like, you know,
cordyceps or you know, what haveyou, and you know, getting a
supplement that could actuallyreally help in these longer
races.
I don't know if it would help inum in like a shorter, like your
type of, you know, like shorttrail, like straight up hill.
Um, I just think the race mightbe too short for that.
Smelling salt, but that's betthat's actually you saw a wada

(55:02):
banned.
Okay.
It's like something like that'sbanned, but you're able to go
and fucking trip your balls offon mushrooms.
And I do think that with thecorrect dosing, that there is a
there there probably is a uh aperformance enhancing effect
from it.
I I would say just from ourexperience, I think that between
that and taking Tylenol andibuprofen probably way too much.

(55:25):
Um it definitely definitelyhelped get through some of the
rougher sections as far as thepain goes with the feet.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (55:32):
I was gonna make an autism joke, but I'll I'll stay
we'll stay away from that.
We're pretty happy there, so umyeah.
So all right, interesting.
I I don't know.
I just I've that thanks forbeing open about it.
I was just so curious becauselike I don't know, I think back
to the days, the early days ofUltra, where you have Avery
Collins with the the tag wordrunning high for his Instagram,

(55:53):
and like he was always big onlike talking about like the
usage of marijuana.
I should say weed.
I don't have to say like properterminology here, but um, like
he was just a big, very bigproponent of it.
And like I don't know, I almostfelt like it like semi-altered
his career in a sense because hewas always the guy to talk about
weed like with ultra running,and like he was obviously he's
an extremely talented athlete,but like never got the notoriety

(56:15):
he probably deserved because hewas so big on it.
But like now in this 200 milephase, like you see a lot of I
don't know, I almost feel likethe mushroom stuff, especially
now as it becomes more legal ina lot of states.
It's an interesting it bears aninteresting conversation to
have, you know.
Um, especially with what you'retalking about, like enhancement
of visual acuity, um, you know,maybe dwelling pain.
Like I'd like I'd be interestedin seeing more research on it

(56:36):
and like people actually usingthese things in like 200 milers
to see, like, all right, like isthere an effect here?
I'm and like I gotta go back andlisten to your um I listened to
your your pod with Jimmy, but Ican't remember.
Did you guys talk about itoffline or did you talk about it
in the pod?

SPEAKER_00 (56:49):
We talked a little bit of it on on the pod.
Um, I had got uh a question frommy brother to actually ask Jimmy
was if he was gonna eat anythingmagical.
And I just started putting twoto two together during the pod.
I was like, oh, that's what he'stalking about here.
That's a good audience questionthough.
Uh no, and you know, I the butthe thing is too, dude, is like

(57:10):
in you know, full disclosure,you know, I've been I've been
sober now for shit almost fouryears, and I've had
disagreements with people aboutthis, about the whole mushrooms
thing, because like, you know,when I first started running, I
would, you know, take edibleslike yeah, like like weed
edibles and go run before I gotsober.
And and that actually helpedquite a bit um from a from a

(57:31):
like from the pain tolerancestandpoint and being able to,
you know, kind of lock in alittle bit, um, a little bit
more, I should say.
Um, but for me, like I I can't Ican't do that.
I can't use um any, I can't, Ican't smoke weed, I can't eat
it, anything like that, becauseit it has that um that qual that
addictive quality for me.

(57:52):
Um I I'll just find myself thenext week going to a fucking
dispensary and going and buyinga joint and then you know,
smoking again, and then here Iam back at square one.
Um, but with mushrooms, like,and again, I've had
disagreements with with othersober people on this where
they're like, oh yeah, no, youknow, they're California sober,
so they smoke weed, don't drink,do anything else, but they won't
take mushrooms.

(58:13):
Where I'm sitting here and I'mlike, well, you know, for me, it
doesn't, I I've never takenmushrooms and the next day been
like, I want to do that again.
You know, it's it's it's it'sonce every two years, maybe.
And then with the microdosing,again, you're not getting high.
And I just look at it a littlebit differently, just again,
because it doesn't have thatpsychological or physical

(58:34):
addiction property for me.
Um, because I'm not a fuckingpurist when it comes to it,
right?
Like, I don't look at likesobriety like, oh, I just I
can't do anything, you know.
No, it it comes down to I'm notgonna take a substance that's
gonna ruin my fucking life, andmushrooms aren't there for me.
You know what I mean?
So, like it they uh, you know,some people are gonna get pissed
off about that, but I could giveup.

(58:56):
I mean, I it's again, dude, likeit, I I don't, I'm not a again,
I'm not gonna go and find, youknow, I'm not gonna go and take
mushrooms every day.
That's just not that's just notsomething I'm interested in
doing.
And that's something I don'tthink you really should do,
quite honestly.
I mean, I I really do kind oflook at it as a um, you know, to

(59:16):
to get a little to get a littlewoo-woo and hippie here.
I mean, I it's it's it's a it'sa plant medicine, and if you use
it the right way, and you know,you could have it has a lot of
benefits, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:25):
Well, you know, uh I was gonna make a Meet the Aliens
joke, but we can save that foranother time.
I gotta ask you, I I gotta getwoo-woo here.
I do gotta get I gotta ask youthis.
Uh you know, you and I uh youknow are good amigos and we we
chatted a lot in the lead up tothis race.
We talked about expectations, wetalked about goals, we talked

(59:46):
about all these differentthings.
And then it's always a differentexperience when in the lead up
to it, and then you get to itand you actually do the damn
thing.
How did that like I guess whatI'm trying to ask is like, did
it meet your expectations?
Or did it exceed them?
Or was it not as good as youwanted it to be?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:05):
Yeah, dude.
No, I would say definitelyexceeded expectations as far as
what I was getting into.
Um you know, I I I went intothis thing thinking again, yeah,
I kind of the same approach thatJimmy took was like, all right,
this is just two 100 milers.
Like if I could run my first onein between 22 and 24 hours, like
we can kind of you know mail itin for the second one and run it

(01:00:27):
in 28.
Um you know, and that's justcoming off of just running a
hundred miler, running an 80miler.
Um you know, I went into itthinking that it was gonna be a
different experience.
And then, like I said, it's it'sthat race dynamic, it's the
strategic portion of it, um,where I where I I don't believe

(01:00:48):
that I did well with, right?
Like I don't think I put enoughpreparation into that part of
it.
I didn't talk to enough peoplewho had run, you know, 200
milers and get their their twocents.
Um, but you know, I've alwaysbeen the type of person that's
just gonna go out and just dosomething and try it for myself.
And you know, the entire time Ithink that, you know, if you're
not winning a race, if you'renot poding, you know, if you're

(01:01:09):
not on the podium, what you takeaway from that race and then
apply later on is really theimportant part.
And again, for me, you know, I Ilearned a lot during this race.
And, you know, I banked all ofthat during the race.
I'm like, okay, you know, fornext time, remember this.
For next time, remember this,you know, um, you know,
basically, you know, running,you know, sub-24 hour um 100, uh

(01:01:31):
knowing that I was pacing myselffor 200 miles, you know, I was
like, oh shit, okay.
So like, you know, maybe wecould do a hundred mile or X
fast, right?
So that's kind of the, you know,you know, morphs into the next
goal and then you know, feedsinto the the next time you go on
and take on something like this.
Um, but definitely exceeded myexpectations.
I think that, you know, again,be even being you know, an

(01:01:53):
inaugural uh race, uh, you know,again, Tim and Hillary, ton of
kudos.
They did a they did a great job.
I mean, frickin' Hillary waswaiting at the at the finish
line for freaking everybody.
I mean, I don't know if thatwoman slept the entire weekend.
She may have slept less than anyof us.
And um it was just awesome.

(01:02:13):
You know, like I saw saw Tim atthe beginning of the race, and
you know, he was like, Heybuddy, go get some scalps, and
I'm like, fuck yeah, like let'sgo.
And it was just dude, it was itwas a really it it was they they
put on a great show.
Um it was uh it was it was superfun.
It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:30):
Uh as far as things you would change for next time
around, like I mean, I like Ihave to be honest with you, like
I ran with you and thought youwere pretty fit.
I was very impressed with that.
Is there anything you wouldchange in training?
Is there anything you wouldapply into the race?
Obviously, we we talked aboutsome of the things like the feet
um and some of those aspects,but as far as training goes,
like what would you change, orif if there's anything you would

(01:02:51):
change?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:51):
Yeah, I would I'm not gonna I won't harp on the
feet anymore because I thinkthat was just a strategic
blunder on my part.
I think that with the fitnessthough, the fitness was
definitely there.
I mean, unfortunately, I don'tthink I had as much.
I would do we ever have asenough time to prepare for
something like this, but I thinkthat I I I had to throw on a ton
of volume leading into this.

(01:03:12):
And that brought up a wholebunch of other physical
ailments, you know, whether itbe like IT issues or, you know,
again, the nerve issue that Iwas dealing with in my in my
foot and my left leg, and thendeveloped shin splints in my
left leg.
And it was just like, fuck, man,just putting in, you know, 60
mile week, 70 mile week, 80 mileweek, and then like 120 mile
week, 100 mile week, 80 mileweek.

(01:03:32):
It was just it was a lot.
And I think going into the nextone, you know, especially into
this, into this offseason, isreally being able to incorporate
the the strength training morereligiously while you're still
putting on that on that volumeand just increase it ever so
slightly um as to avoid injury,you know, because obviously the

(01:03:55):
the strength training is gonnahave its benefits when it comes
to um the injury prevention, butalso from the muscle fatigue
standpoint, right?
I mean, I still think that Icould have there's some
improvement there um from youknow muscular endurance and you
know, you're running 200 miles,you know, your your your legs
need to be fucking stout.

(01:04:15):
So um there's a lot of singleleg training, but at the same
time, you know, me and Nicolinogo back and forth all the time.
Um, I think from you know, my mypast experience with with uh
with football and doing a lot ofpower power lifting, you know,
doing deadlifts, clean impress,um, you know, things like that,
that's a huge component of thetraining.

(01:04:36):
I mean, and I I I stand by that.
I mean, lifting fucking heavy.
Um, you know, because you coulddo all the single leg stuff, and
that's that's fantastic.
It it does help a lot.
And I think, but that I thinkthat's more on the injury
prevention side.
But when it really comes tobuilding those muscles up and
getting them ready just to bebeat down for that long, doing

(01:04:56):
the very heavy lifting is supercrucial.
I mean, just from a bone densitystandpoint, um, that's something
that I would absolutelyintegrate a whole lot more going
into um going into the next one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:08):
Interesting.
I would I mean I was amazed byyour durability, dude.
Like you're a very durableathlete and like you could take
some take some punishment, whichobviously wasn't it, you know,
pretty shown uh throughout thisrace and other you know races.
Um I know Mike, I mean, so I andI I don't know if I've talked
about this in the podcast yet,but like Michelino's my coach
now, and I gotta say, man, likewe've made a lot of like little

(01:05:30):
changes and some big changes inthe last like you know couple
months we've been workingtogether, and I'm astonished at
like some of the things thatlike I'm like, huh, like that
really like like worked.
Um can you talk a little bitabout like what you've gotten
from him?
Like, I know he's fired you uh acouple times, but like he's got
a lot of gems, dude.

(01:05:50):
Like Michelino, I think youknow, the I think he obviously
it's overshadowed because he'ssuch a good athlete, but at the
same time, like the dude isamazing coach.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:59):
Oh yeah, yeah.
No, no, Mikelino, I like as foras good of an athlete as as he
is, I think he's he's 10 timesbetter of a coach.
I the thing is is that Mike'snot my coach, but we talk all
the time when it comes to youknow uh training methodology,
and you know, I'll I'll come athim with some dumbass idea that
I have.
Like, well, what about he's likehe's like, yeah, dipshit.
Like he's like, that's that wasstudied 20 years ago.

(01:06:20):
Like, look at this, you know,and like he's it's funny with
Mike because he is a he's he's avery, very smart dude, and like
he knows physiology better thanyou know, and anatomy better
than a lot of people that thatare in the space, you know.
We were actually talking aboutsome.
I don't know if you know thatinfluencer dipshit, uh Matt

(01:06:42):
Johnson.
He's that little little fuckingtiny dude in Texas.
He's like running.
No, let's just put it in he hewent and ran Tahoe 200 and ended
up D F DNFing at mile 30, and helooked like a baby deer running
in the snow.
And this motherfucker's comingout and charging five hundred
dollars a month for coaching.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:03):
What?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:05):
Like the dude that knows jack shit about running.
It's like, yo, dude, you're justlike the rest of us fucking drug
addicts who come out and find asport that we can apply our our
addictive personalities to, andyou're coming out and like you
have zero education when itcomes to to running, you know,
you don't have a background init.
Whereas Mickelino has beenrunning since he was in freaking
in in uh middle school, he wentto college and and you know, and

(01:07:29):
has a degree in you knowkinesiology, and he's charging
what 180 bucks a month orsomething.
I don't, I don't actually know,but it's not not that much.
500 fucking dollars.
But no, Mickelino is excellent,coach.
And like I said, we're we alwaysgo back and forth with you know
different training methods, youknow, you know, again, back to

(01:07:50):
the weight training.
You know, we were talking aboutthat this weekend, you know,
because he he had a little bitof a rough go of it, that second
half of that 100k.
And he was just like, man, he'slike, I don't know, you know,
he's like, I took enough saltin, you know, where's the
cramping coming from?
You know, and just kind ofbasically decided, like, well,
it's probably just the muscularfatigue, you know, there's
whether that be um not enoughvolume, because he's run like

(01:08:10):
1400 miles this year, whereasI've run 1700, he's probably
done a little bit more strengthtraining than I have, but all
that adds up.
So if you're not doing that highvolume and and putting that
putting that pressure on thoselegs and and and and you know,
getting that stimulus, you needto have that that strength
training aspect of it.

(01:08:31):
So even though I'm not coachedby Mikelino anymore because I
just constantly piss him offwith the way that I structure my
training or like I'll move mylong run and then like you know,
I'll decide to you're way worsethan me.
Yeah, no, I'm horrible, but alot of it's because he's my
brother.
When I'm coached by somebodyelse, um, I I tend to follow it
a little closer.
But you know, I I I think that Ihave more leeway with him until

(01:08:54):
I go and check my trainingschedule for the next week and
there's nothing there, and he'sjust like, dude, fuck you.
Like, I'm not doing thisanymore.
He's like, I'm coaching, I'mjust because you're my brother.
And he's like, You don't listento what I say.
Like, so I get it.
But um, understanding how heputs together a training program
has helped me a ton to where I'mnot gonna say I don't need a

(01:09:14):
coach, I would probably benefitfrom one, but if I put together
my training plan, I'm able tofollow it.
And because we have the samesort of thought process when it
comes to you know how tostructure something leading up
to a race, um it uh it it's ait's a huge benefit to to to
have him in my corner and and umjust to just to bounce things

(01:09:36):
off of him.
I mean, he's anybody looking fora coach, highly recommend using
Mikelino.
He's he's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:43):
Yeah, dude.
I I've I've gotten uh yeah, I'vegotten I've gotten in trouble a
few times now with uh deviatinga little bit.
I like to do my Friday lunchruns a little long.
He's like, Oh, you tacked on anextra 25 minutes to your Friday
run.
I say, huh?
He's like, You're gonna are yougonna do your full long run on
Saturday?
I was like, probably not.
So yeah, I've gotta I gotta bebetter, but it's been it's been

(01:10:03):
a fun journey so far.
And dude, like I said, thefitness gains have been crazy
just in this small period oftime.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:08):
Look at look at Jazz, dude.
His you know, his girlfriend,um, you know, she goes to worlds
this year, and I mean she's hada phenomenal year, and she goes
to worlds and gets freakingfourth place.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:16):
I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:18):
He's coaching her.
Um, you know, and and even likewhen they first started, um,
when they first startedtraining, you know, she was kind
of question questioning some ofhis methodology, and he was just
like, just trust the process,trust the process.
And then you go to worlds andyou get fourth place.
I mean, I think that that'sreason enough to trust the
process.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:35):
Yeah, no, it works, it definitely works.
So, what's next, man?
Hello, uh, obviously we got along time between Sedona Canyons
125 and and now.
Like, what's uh what do you gotplanned for the winter?
Just mileage or any goals?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:50):
You know what?
Being down in SouthernCalifornia helps a lot because
we don't have a ton of snow, solike the running volume can stay
pretty high.
Um, we do have occasions wherethere's you know too much snow,
or you know, and in that case,I'll just get on the bike.
But uh usually I take the winterto um do a lot more strength
training, uh, just sit in thegarage and and lift heavy, uh,
bulk up a little bit, and thenyou know, come January start

(01:11:12):
start running again.
So I think right now, um,especially with the fatigue on
the legs from this, you know,running the other day, I did
like five and a half miles, andlike the next day it felt like I
ran a you know 100k.
It's like, all right, like we'regonna we're gonna tone it down a
little bit.
But right now, the only thing onthe schedule is Sedona 125.
Um, I'm excited for that one.

(01:11:32):
I'm really looking forward to umgoing out there and and seeing
how fast we can how fast we canrun it.
Um already assembled theassembled the crew.
Um you know leading up to thatfor running though, just gonna
do some you know long adventuresin the mountains and you know
keep the volume high, but youknow, lead into that race and
probably really start hammeringon the training plan um come

(01:11:55):
February, hit that trainingblock and uh yeah, just try to
get a little bit faster, do alittle bit more speed training
than I did for the 200 mile,that's for sure.
Um and yeah, that's uh that'sthat's kind of the plan.
I know my buddy um my buddyJonah is actually running uh
Hurt 100 uh this January.

(01:12:17):
So we're gonna go out to Hawaiiand uh go crew him, return the
favor for him coming out and uhhelping me uh this uh uh this
past race, which I'm superexcited for because I I was I
was signed up for Hurt lastyear, but I hurt yeah, I was
supposed to run Hurt, but umyeah, hurt my Achilles, so I
pulled out and um so I'm excitedto go back out there.

(01:12:41):
I've only run that loop once, soit's gonna be fun to get get out
there and uh and uh just get himthe goal that he has is gonna be
his first hundred.
So I'm fucking pumped, dude.
Like I as far as like thingsthat I'm excited for, I'm really
excited to go out there and andand crew for him because I think
that like this weekend crewingMickelino.

(01:13:01):
I I don't know if yeah how muchcrewing you've done, but it is
one of the funnest things thatdude, you're fucking you're
stressed out the whole time.
I mean, dude, this this thislast uh this last hundred that
Mike did, um we uh we start wewent so he was in first place at
the bear, I think it was thebear aid station.

(01:13:21):
He comes in first.
I was like, oh shit, dude, likethis this he's running way ahead
of way ahead of schedule.
And uh the next aid station waswas pretty close.
It was like a night, it was like9k away.
So we get in the van, we startdriving, and we get to the fire
road that we uh was seeminglythought was gonna take us to the
next aid station, but it there'sa gate there.

(01:13:42):
And I was like, oh shit, okay,pivot.
Like, how do you know?
And like Alex, um, his buddy isfollowing us in the car.
He's like, What do we do?
I was like, I don't know.
I'm just driving towards town.
And you know, luckily, uh, mygirlfriend Angela was with us,
and I was like, Hey, go on thefreaking, go find the runner's
manual, go see what's up withthis aid station.
So she looks it up really quick.
She's like, Okay, it's at SnowSummit.
So we drive to Snow Summit andshe's like, It says the aid

(01:14:04):
station's at the summit and itsays you can hike up there.
And I was like, Fuck.
So I go pack his bottles in abag, throw in, um, throw in his
fuel, and I just start runningmy ass straight up to the uh to
the top.
And I it's funny because Ithought about you and and you
were talking that different typeof pain when you're running
straight up hill and dude.
Now I'm panicking because I havehis location on my on my iPhone.

(01:14:27):
So I'm seeing him like traverseacross the mountain.
So I'm thinking he's gonna beatme there.
So I'm just like gassing it,dude.
And like to just like a freakinghandful of pennies in my mouth,
just like dying.
And you know, my legs are stillfucked, and I just sprinting up
this hill, like, oh my god, likeI'm gonna make it.
And then I go to his locationand he's running back down to

(01:14:48):
the parking lot.
So it's like, oh, they run downand then they run back up.
So I ended up beating him upthere by like 20 minutes.
Thank freaking God.
But like that's the whole thingwith like the crewing.
It's just go, go, go, go.
He finally gets up there, loadhim up, find out what he's gonna
need for the next aid station,make sure he's eating, give him
a pep talk, smack him on thebutt, send him on his way, bomb

(01:15:10):
down the mountain, go to thenext aid station.
Um, so uh yeah, crewing iscrewing is its own type of
crazy, and it's it's so much funto be out there and uh and and
do that with those guys.
So yeah, really looking forwardto hurt and uh and and really
just kind of getting to go outto Hawaii for a week.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:25):
So Hawaii's great, man.
I was out there about a year agothis time last year, and yeah,
it's I mean it's easier for youtoo, because it's a quick flight
from LAX.
It's like not not that badbecause you could fly direct
from there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:37):
No, it's not it's not bad at all.
And I'm I'm trying to convince,I'm trying to convince Angela to
come with me, but she doesn'tlike flying.
Um she's like, okay, there's noway I'm flying over the ocean.
She's like, send a fuckingferry.
And I'm like, no, like just Idon't know.
Just just just I don't know,take a bong rip, get on the
plane, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:56):
You gotta fly.
What the hell did we fly?
We flew, uh, I think it was jetblue there and it wasn't that
bad.
But I think we threw it flewsouthwest back, dude.
Do not fly southwest back.
Like there was no phone chargerand no like screens on the
thing.
So like I was just like watchingshit on my phone until it died,
and then I was sitting there forlike two hours, bored out of my
mind.
I didn't bring a book oranything.

(01:16:17):
It was it was horrible.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:19):
So I think I'm flying southwest because I have
southwest points.
So good luck, godspeed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:26):
Uh but yeah, dude.
I think we hit it all.
Is there anything you think wedidn't we didn't get to that you
want to address?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:32):
No, man, I think we're good.
I uh no, it was um it was fun.
Let's put it that way.
We'll do it again at some point.
Um, and next time we will beatyou, Max.
I promise.
Um, that's gonna happen.
That's still on the list.
Max is still needs to get hisass beat.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:46):
Let me ask you Sedona Canyon's is what, May?
Something like that?
May?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:50):
Yeah, Sedona's in May.
It's same, uh, it's it's uhKocodona weekend, um, or it's
like the half cocoa basically.
Um and I can't even rememberwhere it starts.
I think it starts in Sedona andthen ends in Flagstaff.
I think it ends in the samelocation that the um the 250
ends in.
Uh, but yeah, yeah, it's in May.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:05):
Dude, I have my road trip down there just to uh just
to cheer you on and and havesome fun out there.
It could be yeah, come join,come join the crew, it would be
fun.
It's not too far of a drive, sosweet.
Francesco Senseri, TeddyTonelli, thanks for coming on,
man.
Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:19):
Thanks, buddy.
Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:21):
Yeah, buddy.
Guys, thanks so much for tuningin.
Much appreciated.
I also want to thank Frank somuch for coming on the pod for a
conversation.
This episode was both amazingand powerful, and uh, yeah, it's
just a little somethingdifferent.
You know, we're always doing theshort trail stuff.
Short trail stuff is near anddear to my heart, but every now
and then it's a little fun tomix it up and hear some
different stories, especiallyfrom uh longer aspects of the

(01:17:43):
sport, and uh which it's kind ofa whole different sport when you
think about it with all thatstuff.
So yeah, every now and then it'sfun to get something different.
So, guys, thanks so much toFrank.
The best way you can support himis in a bunch of different ways.
First and foremost, give him afollow on Instagram.
You can find him atFrancescoM.censeri or
Frank.censeri as his Instagramhandle.
Uh, probably the best way youcan support him is going on

(01:18:05):
Instagram, giving RunSlut afollow.
That's right, run.sl.ut onInstagram.
That's the parent account uh forhis immensely popular podcast,
Chasing Trail, uh, the viralTeddy Tonelli.
That's right, Frank is the voiceof Mr.
Teddy Tonelli.
Um and yes, uh you can supporthim by giving Chasing Trail a

(01:18:25):
follow on Apple, YouTube,Spotify, or wherever you consume
your podcast.
Probably best is on YouTube andSpotify because it's on video.
Um and yeah, if you'reinterested in comedy, satire,
and just funnier aspects of thesport, and if you could like to
take a joke or are interested insome of the more comedic aspects
of it, I think Frank does anabsolutely fantastic job.
He's immensely talented, and uh,I think this is gonna be one of

(01:18:49):
the most popular podcasts in thespace within the next few years
because it is just hilarious.
So if you're interested in thatstuff, which you absolutely
should be, give him a follow.
I'll link it in the show notes.
But yeah, chase check outChasing Trail.
Um, immensely, immenselyentertaining, and uh you won't
be dissatisfied.
So, guys, thanks so much fortuning in.
Got a bunch of good stuff comingdown the pipeline.

(01:19:10):
Got a good episode with DanKurtz, we're gonna be doing
today.
I'm super excited to catch upwith Dan, uh, talk to him about
his racing season and justbanter about the sport in
general.
And then we're gonna be uhrolling out a bunch of new
stuff.
I've got a bunch of new stuff inthe pipeline that I'm super
excited about.
Uh, I think you guys will havesome fun with.
Lots of video episodes are gonnabe dropping, so we're kind of
upgrading in that area.

(01:19:31):
Um, and yeah, just some newpartnership announcements and
things like that that are comingdown the pipeline that I'm uh
particularly stoked about.
So thanks so much to everybodyfor tuning in.

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#130 - Francesco Sunseri

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#130 - Francesco Sunseri