October 29, 2025 • 60 mins
A week after tackling a steep Canadian classic, two-time Leadville champion Adrian Macdonald joins us to chart a season that nearly went off the rails—and how he brought it back. After Western States left him drained and “half-sick,” bloodwork confirmed anemia. Adrian pressed pause on workouts, added iron, and rebuilt with patience. That decision reshaped his plans: fewer hero efforts, more deliberate steps. Now he’s heading to Ultra‑Trail Cape Town’s 100 miler to practice night pacing, big vert management, and problem‑solving—key skills he wants dialed before returning to UTMB.
We trace Adrian’s path from Massachusetts soccer and college track to Boston road marathons and, finally, Colorado trails. Winning Leadville unlocked travel, sponsorship, and a renewed sense of racing—not just time‑trials—but it also brought pressure and a few humbling lessons. He learned race specificity the hard way: the same engine that crushes runnable high altitude doesn’t guarantee success on technical, hour‑long burners. His solution is pragmatic and refreshing. Choose one major ultra a year, sometimes two. Add short, sub‑ultra mountain races as tune‑ups to sharpen nerves, descents, and pacing without the deep fatigue of an ultra. Mix in East Coast staples like Mount Washington for nostalgia and family time, and lean on a supportive Fort Collins crew—mentors like Nick Clark and training partners who keep the work honest.
We also go inside the On Running ecosystem, where rapid gear innovation and a cross‑discipline team culture keep Adrian inspired. From plated trail shoes to polished kits, he’s part of a brand sprinting forward while still celebrating the messy, human side of ultras. If you’ve wondered how to rebuild after a rough race, plan a smarter season, or pick courses that actually fit your strengths, this is your blueprint. Enjoy the story, steal the strategies, and tell us what big race you’re targeting next. If this conversation resonates, follow the show, leave a quick review, and share it with a friend who loves big climbs and bigger comebacks.
Follow Adrian on IG - @macdonaldadrian
Follow Adrian on Youtube - @adrianmacdonald
Contact Adrian - @adrian.run
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
(00:02):
I'm your host, James L'Oriello.
And today I'm so excited towelcome Adrian McDonald to the
podcast.
That's right, the two-timeLeadville champion is on the
pod.
Caught up with Adrian just abouta week and a half removed from
Defy Decalore up, uh which wasthe Canadian Mountain Running
Championship, where Adrian had atop 10 finish racing in the
mountain classic distance.
Lots of fun catching up withAdrian.
(00:23):
We talked a lot about hisbackstory and his whys.
We got into his sponsorship withOn and talked a lot about that
and where Adrian had justactually came back from a team
camper, not too far removed fromit.
On top of that, we talked abouthis training.
We got into Adrian's calendarand the type of races that he
likes to do.
For those of you who areunaware, Adrian likes to usually
(00:44):
do like one big like hundred ora hundred K or 100 mile race per
year.
Lately, it's been Leadville orWestern States or UTMB.
And then Peppered In is a bunchof sub Ultra races.
So it provided a lot of reallyinteresting and fun commentary
to talk a lot about the Starkseries races he's done, as well
as uh Northeast races like theMount Washington Road race and
many others.
Um yeah, I think this is areally good one.
(01:05):
Super fun episode.
Want to thank Adrian for comingon the pod.
Always a fun conversation uhgetting to talk training and uh
talk chop with him.
So without further ado, AdrianMcDonald.
(02:21):
Adrian MacDonald, welcome to theSteep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Good.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to finally have a conversation with
you.
Uh I know you're just a what aweek or two removed from what is
how do you pronounce that race?
Is it DeFi decalore?
I feel like I have so manyfriends that went and did this
race, and I feel like they wouldkill me because my friend's
pronunciation is so poor.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Yeah, I don't really know how to spell it.
And then I was like, yeah, thereare all kinds of words, but
yeah, Defi de Calor.
And then they called it the MSAMount St.
Anne classic up and down.
Um and was fun when they wouldlike they would say up and down
in English, and so I'm like, oh,that's my race.
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
How was uh how was that experience?
Um I feel like this yearspecifically, I mean, every year
they've done such a great job atfielding uh just a fantastic
field, but I feel like this yearthe vibe was a little bit
different.
It seemed like just aworld-class group of competition
for both the vertical and theupdown.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
Yeah, it was really fun.
Um I had never been to that thatarea before.
I'd been to Montreal, and thiswas like 40 minutes out of
Quebec City.
Um yeah, and it was it wassteep.
Um like I think, yeah, there aretwo climbs.
(03:45):
You climb like 2,000 feet andabout two miles, then you drop
down about a thousand feet in amile, and then turned around and
went back up uh another thousandfeet and one mile, and then
descend to the finish.
Um and there was yeah, it was itwas on like ski slopes.
(04:07):
There was kind of like a trailcut into it, so it was you could
go pretty fast.
So it was fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:13):
So it was uh kind of like a circ series race, more or
less, then it's what it kind ofgave similar vibes to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Uh yeah, I was like sort of looking back because
I've done a few circ series andum it was sort of like Cirque
series without the ridge runningat the top.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
Yeah, we'll get a little bit more into it in a
little bit, but yeah, it's allgood stuff there.
And I'm I'm glad you enjoyed it.
And I'm I'm it's I'm excited tosee what you know how they
continue to put that racetogether.
I will probably go out next yearfor the ver uh for the up down,
probably not the vertical,because that's not my jam, but
the up down, the mountainclassic distance seems to be uh
a lot of fun.
Um let's talk about you.
(04:52):
How uh how have things beensince Western States?
How has been how's recoverybeen?
Uh how's the body been feeling?
How uh how have plans kind ofshifted for uh back end of 2025
going into 2026?
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, so uh Western States obviously didn't go well
for me.
I did finish, which I was proudof.
Um and then so that was the endof June, and I sort of did my
normal downtime.
Like I take a week completelyoff, and then I just run easy
(05:28):
for a few weeks.
And uh the plan all along was torun Ultra Trail Cape Town, which
I'm I'm doing in three and ahalf weeks now.
And I was gonna start mybuild-up in mid-August, and I
did that and was sort of feelingoff, and I attributed it to just
(05:51):
being hot.
Um and then after two weeks, Iwent up to Leadville for uh
Labor Day weekend, and I did aworkout on Friday, and then
Saturday morning I did um Ithink it was Oxford and Belford
with my fiance Quinn, and then Iran Hope Pass, and it was the
(06:15):
slowest Hope Pass that I've everdone by like 10 minutes.
This is the backside, and thatincludes it doing it 55 miles
into a race.
Um and so then I was I kind ofknew something was was
definitely off, and I always Isort of felt like I was had a
flu coming on, but it neverreally got past like the chills
(06:38):
and the weird temperaturefluctuations.
Um I went in and got the bloodwork done and I found out I was
anemic, um, which had never I'vebeen running for over 20 years
now, and I've um never had todeal with that um and I think
(06:59):
there was other also some othersickness going on.
And I this like weird sort ofhalf sickness had come up.
I did the Wild West relay forfun back in early uh July, and
it was the same thing where likeI felt like I'm gonna get sick,
and then I just sort of stay inthat state for a little bit.
(07:20):
Um so yeah, I was gonna runPike's Peak Marathon, but I I
cut that out unfortunately, andthen I started supplementing
iron and took pretty much all ofSeptember.
I was just doing mileage and alittle bit of vert and cut out
the workouts.
(07:41):
Um, and then by the end ofSeptember I was like feeling
back to normal, and so I sort ofdecided that I could go ahead
and run the um the Fide Calor.
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
You got it, you got it better than me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
And um, yeah, I leave for Cape Town in 10 days.
SPEAKER_02 (08:04):
Nice, nice.
Let's let's backtrack a littlebit.
I mean, if you don't mind likeme asking, like, do you think it
was more diet related?
Because I find this interesting.
I I've seen it pop up inespecially athletes that live at
altitude, it seems to beobviously more of a an issue
where it comes uh like hemocritand iron levels like kind of get
screwed up.
Um, like are you do you live areare you more vegan or
(08:26):
vegetarian?
Like, do you think that that'swhat it is, or like where do you
think that popped up from?
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
No, I'm I don't have any sort of dietary restrictions
and um yeah, one of the sort ofironic things was that I started
working with a nutritionist atthe end of last year.
I think I so I think I've likeup my nutrition game in the past
year.
So to have something like thishappen was like extra
(08:54):
frustrating.
I sort of think um when Istarted Western Saints, I was a
little sick.
Like I got a sore throat thatcame on a week before, and it
sort of got worse and worseuntil the Wednesday, the day
before the race.
And then it sort of petered out,but then I got pink eye um that
(09:17):
I was sort of dealing with likethe day before the race.
Um, so I think maybe running ahundred miles in those
conditions already sort of underthe weather, um, it may have
just buried myself more than Ithought it would.
SPEAKER_02 (09:37):
Sounds like it.
I mean, yeah, that's crazy.
If you don't mind me asking,like feeling kind of gr crummy
before the start of a race likethat, is there like pressure for
you obviously to start?
Because it's like, damn, if Idon't do this, I gotta go
requalify all over again.
Yeah, do the whole thing allover again.
Um, that must have been like alot of pressure on you to kind
of go in and do it knowing youwere a little bit compromised.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Yeah, and well, we all we sort of gaslight
ourselves into thinking thatwe're not actually sick.
Um so I was I was like checkingmy heart rate a lot.
Like my heart rate seems fine,like my running seems fine.
But when people like after therace, like I had an Airbnb in
(10:19):
Olympic Valley, and people wouldcome, and I think they're all
like talking behind my back,going like, oh Adrian sounds
really awful.
Um yeah, I didn't want to likemake it a big deal in front of
the race, but I never uh I neverthought about not starting or
even not finishing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Do you want to go back?
Is that the plan?
Or like what do you think'snext?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Uh yeah, someday.
Yeah, I kind of I don't have anyreal plans beyond Cape Town
right now.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Let's let's get into that.
Are you running are you runningthe 100k?
100 miles.
100 mile.
Okay, okay.
It's supposed to be amazing.
Have you ever been out therebefore?
I I have not.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
I've I went to South Africa for the 2010 uh FIFA
World Cup.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Um, but we didn't go to Cape Town, we sort of went
everywhere else.
Um, so I've been I've been likewanting to get back and check
out Cape Town, especially nowthat I'm like I wasn't I was
like a track runner back then,so now I'm like this looks so
cool.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Yeah.
I mean it'll be cool to see toofor in case you want to try and
qualify for Worlds for 2027,you'll get to see a lot of
whatever that course would looklike anyway.
Yeah.
Um, you know, for for you know,depending on what style you go
for, whether it's short trail,long trail, or mountain classic,
I feel like there's there's uhvery good trails.
There's a lot of interestingstuff over there too.
There's like cobras and stuff.
(11:47):
It's like it's kind of weird.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Yeah, I was just looking up like what animals all
have to be on the look for.
Yeah, yeah, and I do have cobrasand um there's some cat, the big
cat, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Leopard, I think there's leopards and stuff,
yeah.
Like yeah, that's pretty wild.
Yeah, you wanna don't want torun into one of those.
Um all right, let's let's kindof pivot a little bit.
I know you had mentioned soccer,and I do want to talk about
that, but first off, like I dowant to dive a little bit into
your origin story.
Like I know you're you're fromMassachusetts.
I know you grew up runningcross-country and track.
(12:20):
Did you did you play soccer aswell?
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Yeah, I I played soccer in high school and I
didn't switch to cross countryuntil college.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
Okay.
What position did you play forsoccer?
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
I was um I was a midfielder outside mid, so I was
just bitter than everyone else,and I was the only one that
would run over the summer.
So um that's sort of how I foundmy got my spot on the team.
Um I always think like like Iknow how much I improved in
(12:52):
running when I went full-time incollege.
Like I always wondered like howgood at soccer could I have
gotten if I had played ityear-round for four more years.
But um I was just sort ofaverage on an average team, but
I loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Did you I mean, uh was there ideas at any point in
time to want to play in collegeor try to, like in the
beginning, or was it more solike you just realized you were
fit and you know, let's continuecross-country track kind of
background?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
No, I had never really thought about playing
soccer in college.
My brother, he did the wholeclub soccer and he looked into
it, and he was better than Iwas, so um yeah, I guess I just
sort of figured if he can't doit, I probably can't do it
either.
SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
It's a fun sport, man.
I uh I grew up in South Floridaand that was my first sport.
I played soccer all through highschool.
Uh I was a left back.
Um, and yeah, it's such a funsport, and it's the culture.
I don't know what the culture islike in Massachusetts, but in
South Florida, you know, it's somultinational.
A lot of South American athletesuh and um Caribbean island
(14:04):
athletes like come up.
Um so it's like this melting potof just phenomenal athletes.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, so you learn it from avery young age, like it's it's
kind of embedded in the culturethere, which is kind of it's
different.
It's like unlike any other spotin the United States.
Um, what was it like for youplaying high school sports and
then going to college?
I knew you uh you went toGettysburg College.
Um did you were you recruitedout of college to uh to run uh
(14:29):
track?
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
I wasn't really recruited, so I started track my
sophomore year and I did it, Idid okay, but it was like 216 in
the 800 or something, and thatwas my event.
And then junior year I wasactually injured the whole year,
so there was no real I didn'treally have anything to send to
(14:55):
coaches.
Um so I sort of applied tocolleges without thinking about
doing sports in college, andthen my senior year I started
getting faster and faster.
And I had these schools that Ihad gotten into, and I reached
out to all the coaches there tosee if they'd have me on their
(15:16):
team.
Um in Gettysburg was the only itwas the only D3 school I applied
to, and um they didn't make cutsor anything, and so they let me
walk on the team.
I got down to like 440 in themile my senior year.
Um so it was nothing special,but yeah, I had fallen in love
(15:39):
with running at that point, andthat was one of the big reasons
I went to Gettysburg.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
After college, how how did you find the trails?
Like what got you stoked ontrail running?
Like, was it I know it's somepeople see a video of Anton
running shirtless in themountains in Leadville and other
people?
I mean, now there's people thatI get inspired to run in the
sport because of you, dude, forthe things that you've done at
Leadville.
Like, what what was it that gotyou excited about trail running?
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Um so yeah, after college, I moved um I moved back
to the Boston area and I ranwith the Greater Boston track
club, and I did a couple years.
I wanted to break 410 in themile because I ran 412 in
college and I was alwaysinjured, and so I eventually
(16:27):
decided that I would run themarathon, and so that's what I
was doing with Greater Bostonwas road marathon, and then I
moved to Colorado 2016, stilldoing like I wanted to run in
the mountains, but I stillwanted to do road marathons, and
it was really um COVID that thatgot me to make the switch.
(16:52):
Um I was training for the BostonMarathon in 2020 and that got
canceled.
It was probably like three orfour weeks before Boston, so I
was pretty fit, and I wanted touse that fitness for something,
so I went after the Towers Roaduh time trial FKT in Fort
Collins, and that's when I sortof fell in love with trail
(17:16):
running and training for that.
But it was really after I movedto Fort Collins, I was like
meeting all these people thathad done hundred-mile races, and
it was I knew one guy in Bostonwho did ultra races and it
wasn't something anyone reallythought of, and then you got
here and everyone did it, so itmade it seem much more
(17:39):
attainable.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (17:42):
I I want to pivot to um to Leadville, yeah.
After I mean, I feel like thestory of you running that race
multiple times has been told somany times.
I'm just so curious of like howmuch did change your life after
winning that race?
Like automatically thousands offollowers on Instagram.
I'm sure everybody wants to runwith you, get to know you, meet
(18:03):
you.
Uh obviously contracts come yourway.
Like, how much was that lifechanging after you won that
race?
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Yeah, it really was um life-changing because um I
mean I always loved running, andnow I get I get to do it, and
there's um sort of more purposebehind it, I think now.
And one thing I talk about iswhen I was doing road marathons,
(18:37):
usually you're doing these bigmarathons, and you're just
trying to run as fast as youcan, and there's not really much
racing.
Um and so being like near thetop of the sport brought back
the competitive part of runningthat um I didn't really have
since college when you were liketrying to win a conference title
(19:00):
or something like that.
And yeah, like you said, likepeople want to go on runs with
me, and um I get to travel theworld, which is amazing, and
meet people all over the world,and um I was also just thinking
about we had our AN summit inPortland a few weeks ago, and
(19:26):
what's cool about AN is we do itwith all the track athletes and
roadrunners.
So like Andy Weeding is themanager for the OAC in Boulder,
and like he was someone that Ilooked up to when I was running
the 800 in college, and likethere he is.
Um so yeah, it's just sort ofbeen this like wild ride that I
(19:47):
had never even like dreamed of.
Um and that's yeah, that's allcame from like winning that
first blood fill.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
Was it weird after the fact, like people will come
up and introduce themselves toyou and say hello and stuff like
that?
Like, did that ever was that alittle strange?
Because I I feel like that'sthat's gotta be the hardest
adjustment.
Like, I have quite a few peoplethat I've met on the podcast or
just adjacently in the sport,and I don't want to say they're
famous because that's weirdbecause it's not a giant sport,
but still like you getrecognized, and that's weird.
(20:19):
Like, how how have you tussledwith that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
Um yeah, like it's not like a massive theme.
I say it's like moderate fame.
The weirdest one I was back umvisiting my brother who lives
outside of Boston and he's in acountry club, and we went to
dinner in at his country clubrestaurant, and as I was getting
(20:46):
up, someone came over and said,like, hey, you're Adrian
McDonald, right?
And that was like the last placein the whole world.
Like I sort of expected if I'mat a race or like in in town
here, but at a country club inWalpole, Massachusetts, was um
yeah, it was pretty strange.
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
Yeah, I bet, I bet.
On the flip side of that coin,though, I gotta ask you this as
well.
You had success so early on inthe sport for yourself.
Like your first, really yourfirst hundred miler, you you
went and knocked one out of thepark.
Um, you know, most of the racesyou run, you do fairly well at,
but specifically with Ludvillewinning such a very high profile
(21:26):
race very early on, was therepressure after that?
Like to have to repeat?
Like, I found it veryinteresting because like the
probability of winning that racetwice, I feel like goes down
with the amount of pressure thatpeople put on themselves after
the fact.
So, how did you deal with thepressure kind of after that?
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
Yeah, the um yeah, so I ran it the next year, and
at this point I had the onsponsorship, and I had a film
crew filming me, and I um Iremember like telling people
before the race, like, I don'tthink the sponsorships and this
(22:07):
film crew adds any pressure.
Like, I already put a lot ofpressure on myself, and then I
won the race again, and like Ihad this huge sense of relief,
and I'm like, maybe there was alot of a lot of pressure on me.
Um and I just hadn't hadn'treally noticed.
(22:27):
Um I think another thing thatcame with winning Leadville like
so soon into my likeultrarunning career is I was so
like naive to the whole world ofultrarunning.
Um that like getting back tolike a race like Cirque Series,
(22:48):
like the next summer I went toCirque Series and I figured
like, oh, I won Leadville, Ishould be able to go win this
like little Cirque Series race,no easy, uh no problem.
And I get I get crushed.
Um so just sort of like learningthat they're all different types
of like races, and some peopleare good at some of them and not
(23:12):
good at others.
And like luckily for me, Ipicked one right from the start
that I'm like really good at,which is like a runnable high
altitude race.
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Yeah.
What do you think it is aboutthe altitude for you?
Like, especially you're you'rekind of an anomaly in a way that
like you're not from altitude,like you grew up in
Massachusetts.
Most people that tend to bereally, really good at altitude
for some reason have that genefrom like living in altitude at
a young age uh for yourself, youknow, and also you live in Fort
Collins, which is only what5,000 feet, so it's not like
(23:43):
it's the tallest point in thestate by any means.
So what is that physiologically?
Like I guess were you just bornlucky just to be able to adapt
really well?
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yeah, I have I have no idea.
Um because yeah, I mean, I dowhen I'm training for Leadville,
I try and get up high at like10,000 feet every weekend and
sleep up there.
But uh yeah, I don't know, it'ssort of a a mystery, and that
those types of mysteries arewhat make the sport fun right
(24:12):
now.
I'm sure at some point there'llbe all this science that comes
in and we'll be able to identifywho's good at what types of
races, but right now there'sstill some of that mystery.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
I think it's cool too.
I mean, in I think we're stillat this point in the sport where
you know the course reallymatters.
You know, some people, like forinstance, like I'm a big
mountain classic and verticalguy, like I really follow those
subsets of races.
And it was just so interestingto me seeing athletes go and
race at worlds, and that wassuch a fast course.
And athletes that you know mightnot be as you know, that are
(24:49):
faster generally tended to dobetter as opposed to athletes
that were just better ontechnical terrain, and it just
really separated.
Um, whereas had it been a supertechnical course, it would have
been a completely different typeof race.
So it's still we're still inthat point of the sport where
like course specificity reallydoes matter, which is
interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
Yeah.
I did have one like hint thatI'd be good at it, and that's
one of the reasons I pickedLudville for my first hundred
miler, was I had in 2019 I ranthe Mount Evans ascent um and
won it.
Like I sort of surprised myself.
I was like two or three weeksout from running Grandma's
(25:28):
Marathon, and it was a shortneat.
They they cut the course shortthat year, but that's when I
sort of realized like I might bereally good at high altitude.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, dude, that's one of thereasons why I was so excited to
see you line up or potentiallyline up for pikes this year.
Because I think that um, youknow, and this is no
disparagement against uh likeJohn Aziz's competition, but
like no one was there to reallychallenge John.
He was kind of alone on himself,and I feel like had you been
there, it actually would havebeen a bit more of a race
significantly.
Like you guys would have pushedeach other.
(26:00):
Um, so yeah, I I really wouldlove to see you do that race,
whether it's the ascent or themarathon at some point in time,
because I think you have uhdefinitely an opportunity to
become champion there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Yeah.
No, I yeah, I was really bummedto miss it.
And it's like tough where itstands in the calendar because
it's this was the one year whereI wasn't running like Ludville
or UTMB at the end of thesummer, so I could actually do
it.
Um but it'll be there.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
We'll get you there.
We'll make it happen.
Um, I want to pivot a little bitand talk about your training and
the types of races that you do.
And because this is somethingone of the reasons like I really
wanted to have you on thepodcast, because you strike me
as just an interesting calendarcreator.
Like you do the stuff, uh likeit seems like you'll pick one or
two long efforts per year, andthen you pepper in a lot of
(26:48):
subulture races, which I thinkis really cool because you you
mix it up on both scenes, whichnot a lot of longer distance
athletes do anymore.
Um, like a whole slew of Starkseries races dating back to like
2022.
You've done Mount Washington,what, three or four times?
You've done Kendall Canyon's 25kthis past year.
Um, like what is the thoughtprocess behind that?
(27:09):
I love you seeing you doing it.
Is it because you're excited todo these races, or is it more of
a fitness test for you?
Like, what what about theseintrigue you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Um well, one thing is that I like race, like
racing's fun, and I think it's askill that you need to practice.
Um like just getting nervous islike uh something that you need
to like learn to live with.
And if I think I if I go into abig race without having gone
(27:41):
through that in like a tune-uprace, um I think I just get way
too nervous and anxious.
Um but also the more I've doneultras, the more I sort of
realize that I don't need to dolike a huge long effort in
preparation for an ultra.
So these shorter races providethat opportunity to still race
(28:06):
and not sort of take as much outof my body as like a ultra, like
doing a 50k would do, or um likesome even longer.
Um yeah, and I always come awaylike I do pretty good at it, but
(28:28):
I always come away wishing thatI could do better.
Um it's just like amazing to seelike like I run up and down
mountains a lot, and someonelike Remy LaRue can run nine
minutes faster than me in thatan hour race.
Um yeah, it's um so it's likeit's really fun, especially when
(28:50):
you finish on a downhill, butit's also uh humbling.
unknown (28:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Yeah, I think it's a great answer.
Do you guys build it like I wecan get into coaching and talk
about that as well, but do youguys build that into the
calendar to have these stimulusin there?
Do you do them as workouts aswell?
Or is it like kind of in ablock?
Like, how do you guys structurethat?
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Um usually I'll pick out the main target race, which
is usually an ultra, and thenI'll just try and find other
races that get me excited, orlike I did Canyons, so I could
go out and get on the WesternStates course.
Um yeah, like the um the race inQuebec was the race direct on it
(29:39):
sponsored the race, and so therace director wanted someone
from on to do it, and he reachedout to me last year and it
didn't work, and it just lookedlike a fun race, and my parents
could come, so um October is atough time to find mountain
races in Colorado, so um.
(30:00):
Yeah, just I just find whatevergets me excited.
And that's why I've um I've goneback to Mount Washington a few
times because growing up in inBoston, like that's the the like
mountain race in New England.
Um I know like now it's not themost competitive one, but it's
(30:23):
still like the most iconic one.
unknown (30:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
I mean this year it was still I mean you still get
Joe at Joe pretty much everyyear.
Alex Ricard shows up, DavidSinclair.
I mean it was a pretty deepmen's field, I could say.
I mean the women's field was alittle bit less, but I mean
shout out to Rena for winningthis year.
But yeah, it was uh it's alwaysa cool race.
Like I I wish it got more morelove.
I feel like it's uh kind of justbeen quieter in the last few
(30:49):
years, which is kind of abummer.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
Yeah, I think it's tough that it's at about the
same time as Broken Arrow.
Um that's probably why there areso many good Canadians and not
many Americans there this year.
SPEAKER_02 (31:02):
Yeah.
What about the Northeast thatintrigues you?
Is it more so just the becauseuh this is something I mean, I
always bring up Tom Hooper, Ialways talk about 603, and you
know, now we have East CoastCirque series races, and I don't
know.
I'm I'm just a giant fan ofracing in the East Coast.
I think it's a lot of fun.
Uh it's just a different type ofstyle from like what we're used
to in Colorado, if you will.
Um, like what it what about theEast Coast intrigues you?
(31:24):
Is it more so homecoming foryou?
Is it is it just a challenge forsomething different?
Like what what about it excitesyou?
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
Yeah, a lot of it is just the um the nostalgia of New
England, and that's that's whereI first experienced mountains
and hiking and really being inthe outdoors.
I went to summer camp in NewHampshire.
Um and then the first everlittle backpacking trip I did
(31:52):
was I think we just did half ofthe presidential traverse, and I
thought it was so cool all thewalk through the mountains
carrying everything I needed onmy back.
Um and so that's yeah, and thatjust being able to see family
when I go and and race outthere.
Yeah, sort of kill two birdswith one stone.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Yeah.
I mean, listen, I think I meanif for from a short trail
perspective, I don't know.
I think I feel like I'msomething like a broken record
when I say this.
There's more, like way moreraces out there than in Colorado
from a short trail perspective.
And I don't know why that is,it's kind of weird.
Like we we in the mountain westfor some reason like favor
ultras a lot more.
Like there's not as many likeshort ski like aerial mountain
(32:37):
races, which is weird because wehave a ton of mountain or we
have a ton of ski resorts.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (32:42):
Yeah, like in that like sort of classic realm, like
we just have the A-Basin cirqueseries, and then there's some
like half marathons, but they'renot um I think half marathons
are sort of weird on trailsbecause you don't really need to
define the yeah, yeah, it's justlike run up and down the
(33:03):
mountain.
Um there are some cool ones thatI've done in in Wyoming, like
Pilot Hill and Gell Mountain.
SPEAKER_02 (33:11):
Oh, how is Gell Mountain?
I've never done that.
I've been look actually had thatrace on the list a few times.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Um you should definitely do it.
It's just you just it's about 10miles, it's on most, it's pretty
much a dirt road.
You just run to the top, likerun around a cone and come back
down, snow frills.
But um yeah, I think it's Ithink races like that are cool
where it's like, all right,there's a mountain here, there's
a road that goes up themountain.
(33:38):
Let's it's racing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah.
Now it's it's on that topic,like uh now that you do all
these high profile races, butyou still, you know, there's
still room for some smallerstuff as well.
Like, what do you like to dobetter now?
Like, do you do you like to finda mixture of doing both?
And and what do you think of thesport as it continues to evolve
and professionalize?
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Um yeah, like I I like doing the the shorter
races, but what really drives meis the the ultra races, and like
that's what I'm I'm like reallygood at, and um that's what gets
(34:21):
me excited to train.
Um and yeah, and like I thinkthat's sort of like what I tell
like younger runners is likelike most people go through
college and like you have to runcross-country and then you have
to do this.
(34:41):
And I've always like told them,like, yeah, like once you're out
of that, like you just do therun, the races that get you
excited, and those are probablythe ones you're gonna do best
at.
Um so that's that's sort of howI've treated my running since I
left college, and that's how I Itreat ultra running.
(35:02):
Like even like when I did theTaraware 100k, I was sort of
like wishing the whole time thatI was doing the 100 miles, but I
knew that the golden ticketwould get me to the Western
States start line.
So that's what that's what sortof drove me.
(35:22):
Um yeah, and as far as the wholeum like the the sport is um like
I this year was because I wastraining with Taylor in the
(35:44):
spring, Taylor Stack, and likewatching the sort of short trail
like season and his like amazingseason, it um it sort of like
had me thinking more about howum like the golden trail, like I
(36:06):
never really paid it muchattention to that before, but
since he was doing so well init, I was sort of following that
a bit.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Um is there a chance we could get you at a at a
golden trail series race one ofthese years?
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Yeah, I'd like to do it.
Um yeah.
Um I mean I would like love todo something like Sierras and
all, or but I don't know if Icould like build a whole season
around it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:32):
Yeah.
That's a tough race.
I mean, that's a hard thing tonail, too.
Uh what has it been like?
Because I know Taylor for uh hadlived in Fort Collins for a bit.
Um, and I know uh Tyler uhMcKinless is probably not far
from you as well, also in FortCollins.
Have you I know you've got outwith the train with Tyler or
with uh Taylor.
Have you gotten out the trainwith Tyler as well?
SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
Yeah, um yeah, Tyler he he moved to Fort Collins, I
think it was 20 2021.
So just when I was getting intothe trail running, and he sort
of was too.
So um he like has such a crazylife that it sort of if uh my
(37:14):
running can fit into hisschedule, then that's when we
meet up.
And then Taylor, Taylor'sgirlfriend, Sydney, um ran on
the track team at CSU with myfiance, Quinn.
So he sort of connected us, andhe had a more flexible schedule.
So we were running a lot,especially this past spring, and
(37:37):
I'm I'm kind of bummed that he'sleft town.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
I know, I know.
He's back in Salida doing histhing.
I he, you know, I gotta say,man, if there's anybody I gotta
give kudos to, Taylor has had acrazy good season.
Like it's been it's been wild tosee how much he's like developed
in just one year.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yeah, it is.
Um and I so we ran lastDecember, we went and ran Club
Cross Country, and it was me andTaylor and um Nick Costello,
Thomas Dean, and Forrest Barton,and we did terribly.
Um like we were none of us werevery fit, and it was it was kind
(38:19):
of cool to see like just a fewmonths later, I got a golden
ticket, and then Taylor had thisamazing season, and Forrest set
the course record at the powerof four.
Um, and then Thomas just won amarathon in um Steamtown
Marathon in Pennsylvania.
Um but it was yeah, it was um,yeah, especially Taylor.
(38:42):
It was he reached a whole newlevel.
It was cool to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (38:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, let's uh let's talk aboutFort Cotlands and just like the
running scene there.
I mean, obviously, like NickClark, I know, has been a big
cornerstone of that communityfor a minute.
But uh but what is the scenelike in general there?
SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
Um I think it's a very it's sort of a very sported
or I guess one of the coolthings about Fort Collins,
especially coming from like abig city like Boston, like when
I was in Boston, in the greaterBoston Shot Club, I would do all
(39:23):
my running with people that hada marathon PR within like two or
three minutes of me.
And then I come to Fort Collinsand just the way that the
running community is set up,I'll go on runs with um I mean
Nick was a great runner, but bythe time I got here he was a
(39:44):
little bit past it, and likeI'll train with someone like
like him, and then uh likeGerald Mock is in town and he's
a 210 marathoner, and I'll trainwith him.
Um so it's sort of like a a veryI guess like inclusive running
community, um which um I thinkmakes it feel like very
(40:11):
supportive as well.
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah.
I mean it's a good mix.
You've got a few elites inthere, uh or quite a few elites
actually, and you know, youngguns continuing to come up, and
it's kind of a growing cooltown, you know.
I don't know.
It's not Boulder, which I kindof like because I feel like
Boulder's just so saturated withwith I listen, I got a lot of
listeners in this podcast thatlive in Boulder, so there's no
shade to that.
I love them all, but I feel likethere's just a lot of people and
(40:35):
a lot of athletes in that areathat it's it's it's easy to get
FOMO and and you know, followingaround what other people are
doing.
Whereas I almost feel like itmight be more in conducive to do
better in a small, at least forme in a smaller town.
Like that's why I love ColoradoSprings.
It's like there's a lot of usfloating around, but at the same
time, it's like you know, peopleare doing their own thing, and
it's just not as much pressureas like a place like Boulder,
(40:57):
which is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah.
Um yeah, it almost seems likelike in Boulder, there's like
groups that are like competingwith each other to be like the
best in Boulder and in fourcolumns that's like, all right,
let's all get really fit and gobeat beat all these people from
Boulder.
(41:20):
That's true.
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
On the topic of Nick Clark, uh, can you talk a little
bit about like is he's you knowlike he's been around, he's a
legend in Ultra Intrail Running,uh, been around the scene for a
long time.
I I think I watched, I can'tremember what documentary it was
with you uh he was in it.
Um talk a little bit about thatrelationship.
Has he been a more of a mentorfigure for you as you've kind of
(41:45):
exploded onto the scene?
SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
Yeah, so I got to know Nick through um I'm on the
board of the Fort CollinsRunning Club, and the running
club owns the Horse Tooth HalfMarathon, and he's the race
director for that, so he wouldcome to most of our meetings and
be like a pretty involved withthe club.
(42:08):
And he helps put on some otherraces for the club too.
And then um he was the one thatI in the summer of 2020, I was
on a run with Nick, and I'mlike, I want to run Leadville
next summer, uh, 2021.
(42:29):
And his first response was, Whywould you want to do that?
And he's run probably a dozenhundred milers.
Um so yeah, he was um like amentor, especially in those like
first my first few years, andhe's great because he would I
(42:54):
was sort of scared to like askhim to come pace me at my first
Leadville.
Um, and then I did, and he saidyes.
And I felt like that was a likesign that he thought I could do
well.
Um and like I always know likeif Nick thinks like he'll tell
me, like, when I went into UTMB,he's like, I don't think you can
(43:16):
get like top five, top ten inyour first go there.
SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
Um I mean I I appreciate the him being real.
I mean, I think that's that fromone runner to another, I mean,
that's a hard race to nail.
And yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Um so like when I know he says, like, I think you
can do this at this race, thenum like I know that it that it
means something.
Um yeah, then unfortunately he'shad some injuries the past uh
couple years, so we haven't beenable to run much together.
(43:54):
But I had a son Alistair pacingme at Western States this year,
and we did a lot of trainingtogether.
He's off in college now, so I'mmissing him too.
Um yeah, and then the I don'tknow if you've been to one of
his races.
SPEAKER_02 (44:10):
Uh no, I actually I've I've wanted to do Quad
Rock.
The 2025 miles is a little farfrom me, but yeah, yeah, Quad
Rock has definitely been one onthe list for a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Yeah, he the events that he and his partner Brad put
on are probably some of the bestbest out there.
And I've heard never summers umthat's another great race.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Yeah, we've got to convince him to add a smaller
distance for force.
SPEAKER_01 (44:38):
He has talked about doing a VK up there.
SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
Oh, dude, he does a VK, I'll promote it for him.
Yeah.
Speak that into existence.
SPEAKER_01 (44:46):
I think the the park, the state parks people are
worried about people beingstranded up on the top of the
mountain when they finish.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
It's always the logistics, man.
It's the problem with VKs in thestate.
Uh yeah, we need more.
That's uh something you knowI've been talking about on the
pod for a while.
We need more VKs.
Um yeah, no, I'm I'm I I don'tknow.
I really appreciate like I findit very interesting, uh, like
that dynamic and relationshiplike Nick Clark, like I said,
just a you know, probably a hallof famer when it comes to the
(45:19):
ultra-running scene, beenaround, run everything.
Um, so it's kind of cool to see,you know, the older crowd
mentoring, you know, the youngerguys coming up uh as they kind
of make their way into thescene.
Um one thing he had mentionedabout UTMB, is that something
you'd ever go back to?
Is that something you'd wannayou'd want to go and take
another crack at?
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, and like one of the reasonsI'm doing Cape Town is it's I
think I jumped into UTMB tooquickly the first time I did it.
Um and so Cape Town has asimilar to UTMB, it starts at 5
p.m.
on a Friday, and so you startout through the night, and it's
(46:01):
got like 23,000, 24,000 feet ofgain and loss, which isn't quite
what UTMB has, but more thanLeadville um and the other races
that I've done really well at.
So um yeah, I definitely want tosort of work towards going back
(46:21):
to UTMB.
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
It's an interesting thing to figure out.
Any of those like lesserdistances intrigue you, like a
OCC or CCC?
Because I feel like you wouldAmericans for some reason tend
to do so much better at CCC forsome reason.
SPEAKER_01 (46:35):
Yeah, um yeah, like I do think I could I think I
could do well at both OCC andCCC, but uh UTMB is the big one.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Yeah, that's scary.
It's scary how how how long anddistant that is.
Um really quick, I want to shiftgears and talk about on.
I know you said you had just gotback from um a team summit.
Talk about that.
Like what was that like?
Um, you know, obviously there'ssome stuff you probably can't
talk about as far as productgoes, but like, you know, and
(47:07):
stuff for the future, but um,yeah, what's it like getting
together with your teammates andand talking about you know race
plans and and future of thebrand and all that stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
Um yeah, it's really exciting to be a part of on
because it's growing so quickly,and this is my fourth year, and
just seeing how much it'sprogressed in the last um few
years is amazing and inspiring.
(47:40):
Um yeah, and like I was talkingabout before, it's cool to be
with the OEC track team and theother um like amazing track and
road runners that they have.
Um yeah, and then our group oftrail runners is really cool.
(48:00):
Like David Kilgore is ourmanager, and he's so fun to be
around.
Um Yeah, like there's I don'tknow, I'm always telling people
like if you haven't tried an onshoe in like the last five
years, like you need to like goand try it out again because
(48:26):
they're just rapidly improving.
And I've only we have our newPicot Ultra Pro.
Um, and I haven't run in anyother Trail Super Shoe, but
everyone that tries it says theylove it and that it's the best
one out there.
Um and so it's like cool to be apart of the whole development
(48:47):
process of that and see how thatworks.
Um yeah, and it's like a cool,it's a cool brand.
Um yeah.
Um not all like running brandsare cool.
Like Nike has always been cool,and I think on has like worked
its way into being a coolrunning brand.
SPEAKER_02 (49:10):
I gotta say one thing, your kits are sick.
Like the kits this year are thebest I've ever I think one of
the best in trail running, in myopinion.
Like the uh, I don't know, withthat like yellow with green kind
of, and then with the white, uhlike the singlets are and the
shirts are dope.
Uh oh, yeah, the I think it'sthe yellow and black singlets
that I've seen Patrick andPhilemon wear.
(49:31):
And I was like, yeah, yo, thoseare dope.
Um some of the singlets arereally cool.
And shoe technology, I've heardamazing things from.
It's cool to see them now.
They finally developed a pack.
Um, and you know, it seems likethey have a belt product out
there as well.
So it's kind of neat that youguys have like kind of the full
kit, which has come a long way,which is cool.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Oh, and one of the um's adding they've sort of soft
launched it, but they havesprinters now.
And so we had these sprinters umat the on summit, and they had
no idea that there was such athing as a hundred-mile races,
and they were sort of blownaway, blown away by it.
(50:12):
And um, yeah, it was kind of Ididn't know this at the time
when I was like chatting withthem at dinner, and then I went
home and looked them, lookedthem up, and one of them was his
name's Max, and he ran at USCand was second in the MCAA um in
the 100 meters, like 992.
(50:33):
I'm like, wow, this like firstit's cool, but I've never talked
to a sub-10 second 100-meterrunner before, and that he
thinks what I do is so likecrazy, is um it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (50:46):
Yeah, it's legit.
How do you moving on from on?
How how do you view likeyourself in the sport?
Like, do you view this as acareer?
Is this something you want to dolike long term?
Or I know you also have a dayjob as well.
Um, but how do you view it?
Are you is it a legacy thing foryou?
Like you want to go win moreraces, add to the legacy, and
(51:07):
have this like amazing career,or do you view it like one year
at a time?
How do you kind of like break itup in your brain?
SPEAKER_01 (51:14):
I do think I sort of look at it one year or one
training block at a time, andit's um it's something that I
that I want to do for as long asI'm able.
Um I've had someone ask me,like, hey Adrian, are you gonna
still run when you retire?
(51:36):
And I'm like, what is what doyou mean retire?
Like I've always run, so I Ijust think it's something that
I'm that I'm always gonna do ifI'm able to.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (51:48):
Yeah, it's a cool sport.
Talk about your YouTube channel,what it takes.
Um, I was like in the prep forthis episode, I started doing
digging into your uh WesternStates videos, which I thought
were excellently done, man.
Like your YouTube channel isamazing.
Um, do you plan to build on thatat all?
SPEAKER_01 (52:05):
Or um so that was uh Jacob Matchmere, who's um he's a
he lives in Fort Collins, he andhis wife have uh like a media
business.
They mostly work with uh likebusinesses and they'll like film
(52:29):
a corporate event that's goingon, and that's how they make
their money.
And but they also they have likea cabin in Winfield, which is
the turnaround at Leadville, sothey go out there every year and
he like discovered that I livedin Fort Collins, and so after I
got the golden ticket atTarowera for Western states, he
(52:52):
reached out and was like, hey,we need to do something.
Um and we were I think like thebiggest inspiration was uh
Clayton Young's YouTube series.
Um and so we wanted to dosomething like that that would
sort of build excitement for therace.
(53:13):
Um yeah, and he did an anamazing job, and um it was yeah,
he just sort of like embeddedhimself with my my training and
racing for the whole WesternStates build.
Um I'd love to do do somethinglike that again, but it's a lot
(53:37):
of work for him.
Um and just like finding theresources to to pay him for it
um would was a little difficult.
So um we might do somethingbefore I take off for Cape Town
and um but yeah, I'd love to todo something like that again
(54:01):
with him because yeah, it was hedid such a good job.
Oh, an amazing job.
SPEAKER_02 (54:05):
I I like and I'll I'll link it in the show notes
so folks can run over to the uhto your YouTube channel and uh
subscribe and watch becauseyeah, they're fantastically
done.
And I love how it wasn't justlike one big film, it was broken
up individually into episodes.
Um there was you know, it justreally captured like your
Western States one of you.
I forget what aid station youwere at, but you were you were
(54:25):
suffering, dude.
And I was like, oh my god, thispoor guy, this poor guy.
But he really did a great job atcapturing like the the emotion
of it and and just kind of whereyou were mentally and and you
know how you were kind ofgetting through it.
And yeah, it was it was like Isaid, I I don't want to give too
much away, but the audienceshould definitely check it out.
And did you keep it like I said,in whatever way you can keep
(54:47):
something like that going.
I think it's kind of cool.
Yeah.
See if you can get some videosof like workouts or something
like that with like I don'tknow, get Tyler out or someone
and get more pros together to uhbecause I think that that's the
next like iteration of of likethe professionalism in the sport
is doing more because like Ithink the road group does the
like the the roadies do such abetter job of uh like getting
(55:09):
content and being able to filmthat stuff and putting it out
there for the world to see.
And like I feel like we cancontinue to make trail uh more
just bigger and more fun withthat, you know, with stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (55:20):
So like all the cool places we um we like get to run.
It's like it looks cool.
Yeah, like I think the one ofthe interesting things about
Clayton's like you always havethis cool like mountain back
backdrop in Provo, but then he'slike running around an
industrial park and there'straffic everywhere.
(55:42):
It's chaos, yeah.
Yeah, um, yeah, I'm gonna tryand get more out there.
Yeah, because I like really umone of the things that's really
cool about Ultra Running is likethe community and the like
people, like it's an individualsport, but you have like your
(56:05):
crew and all these othercharacters that are involved.
And I liked um I liked howpeople got to like meet Quinn
and um like Taylor was in therea little bit and Alistair and um
like my mom.
Um it was it was like so specialto have that period, even though
(56:26):
the race didn't turn out well tohave that period of my life
captured like that.
SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
Oh yeah.
I mean, dude, no matter how oldyou are, at any point in time in
your life, you could that'ssomething you can always go back
to and watch and like be like,man, I did that.
And the people, you know, peoplethat really cared about me were
with me supporting me throughthis.
So yeah, it is.
It's very special.
It's uh it's one of those cool,like one of the coolest aspects
of the sport for sure.
(56:52):
Um but yeah, man.
Well, listen, we're at about anhour.
Uh Adrian, I want to thank youso much for coming on the pod,
man.
This was a great conversation.
Uh, definitely want to continueto have these.
Um, we'll talk more as far as2026 season goes, but I I'm
trying to get into all I'm gonnatry to get into Mount Wash.
So hopefully I see you up thereif you go out there and race
this year.
If not, uh I'll see if I canI'll make my way up to Fort
(57:14):
Collins to get out for a run.
Something like that.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah, man.
Well, dude, thanks for comingon.
I really appreciate it, and uh,we'll be in touch.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (57:22):
Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_02 (57:23):
Thanks.
Guys, what'd you think?
Uh, want to thank Adrian so muchfor coming on the pod.
As always, uh super appreciativeof his time and uh his
storytelling.
It's great to get to catch upwith him and uh get to learn
more about him.
So the best way you can supporthim is uh click on over to the
show notes.
You're gonna see AdrianMcDonald, follow him on
Instagram, um, give him afollow, let him know what you
(57:43):
guys thought about the episode,send him a DM.
I'm sure we'd love from here tohear from all of you.
Um yeah.
Also, if you enjoyed the pod andyou are enjoying our episodes,
uh best way you can support usis to give us a five-star rating
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Some cool new stuff droppingdown the pike.
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(58:05):
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Still kind of new to videoediting here, uh, so bear with
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Um, but yeah, we're gettingthere.
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Head on over toultimatedirection.com and use
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(58:26):
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Um, you're gonna need a jacket.
Hop on over to UltimateDirection.
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(58:47):
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(59:07):
Appreciate y'all and uh newstuff uh coming down the plate
this week.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
(00:02):
I'm your host, James L'Oriello.
And today I'm so excited towelcome Adrian McDonald to the
podcast.
That's right, the two-timeLeadville champion is on the
pod.
Caught up with Adrian just abouta week and a half removed from
Defy Decalore up, uh which wasthe Canadian Mountain Running
Championship, where Adrian had atop 10 finish racing in the
mountain classic distance.
Lots of fun catching up withAdrian.
(00:23):
We talked a lot about hisbackstory and his whys.
We got into his sponsorship withOn and talked a lot about that
and where Adrian had justactually came back from a team
camper, not too far removed fromit.
On top of that, we talked abouthis training.
We got into Adrian's calendarand the type of races that he
likes to do.
For those of you who areunaware, Adrian likes to usually
(00:44):
do like one big like hundred ora hundred K or 100 mile race per
year.
Lately, it's been Leadville orWestern States or UTMB.
And then Peppered In is a bunchof sub Ultra races.
So it provided a lot of reallyinteresting and fun commentary
to talk a lot about the Starkseries races he's done, as well
as uh Northeast races like theMount Washington Road race and
many others.
Um yeah, I think this is areally good one.
(01:05):
Super fun episode.
Want to thank Adrian for comingon the pod.
Always a fun conversation uhgetting to talk training and uh
talk chop with him.
So without further ado, AdrianMcDonald.
(02:21):
Adrian MacDonald, welcome to theSteep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Good.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to finally have a conversation with
you.
Uh I know you're just a what aweek or two removed from what is
how do you pronounce that race?
Is it DeFi decalore?
I feel like I have so manyfriends that went and did this
race, and I feel like they wouldkill me because my friend's
pronunciation is so poor.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Yeah, I don't really know how to spell it.
And then I was like, yeah, thereare all kinds of words, but
yeah, Defi de Calor.
And then they called it the MSAMount St.
Anne classic up and down.
Um and was fun when they wouldlike they would say up and down
in English, and so I'm like, oh,that's my race.
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
How was uh how was that experience?
Um I feel like this yearspecifically, I mean, every year
they've done such a great job atfielding uh just a fantastic
field, but I feel like this yearthe vibe was a little bit
different.
It seemed like just aworld-class group of competition
for both the vertical and theupdown.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
Yeah, it was really fun.
Um I had never been to that thatarea before.
I'd been to Montreal, and thiswas like 40 minutes out of
Quebec City.
Um yeah, and it was it wassteep.
Um like I think, yeah, there aretwo climbs.
(03:45):
You climb like 2,000 feet andabout two miles, then you drop
down about a thousand feet in amile, and then turned around and
went back up uh another thousandfeet and one mile, and then
descend to the finish.
Um and there was yeah, it was itwas on like ski slopes.
(04:07):
There was kind of like a trailcut into it, so it was you could
go pretty fast.
So it was fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:13):
So it was uh kind of like a circ series race, more or
less, then it's what it kind ofgave similar vibes to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Uh yeah, I was like sort of looking back because
I've done a few circ series andum it was sort of like Cirque
series without the ridge runningat the top.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
Yeah, we'll get a little bit more into it in a
little bit, but yeah, it's allgood stuff there.
And I'm I'm glad you enjoyed it.
And I'm I'm it's I'm excited tosee what you know how they
continue to put that racetogether.
I will probably go out next yearfor the ver uh for the up down,
probably not the vertical,because that's not my jam, but
the up down, the mountainclassic distance seems to be uh
a lot of fun.
Um let's talk about you.
(04:52):
How uh how have things beensince Western States?
How has been how's recoverybeen?
Uh how's the body been feeling?
How uh how have plans kind ofshifted for uh back end of 2025
going into 2026?
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, so uh Western States obviously didn't go well
for me.
I did finish, which I was proudof.
Um and then so that was the endof June, and I sort of did my
normal downtime.
Like I take a week completelyoff, and then I just run easy
(05:28):
for a few weeks.
And uh the plan all along was torun Ultra Trail Cape Town, which
I'm I'm doing in three and ahalf weeks now.
And I was gonna start mybuild-up in mid-August, and I
did that and was sort of feelingoff, and I attributed it to just
(05:51):
being hot.
Um and then after two weeks, Iwent up to Leadville for uh
Labor Day weekend, and I did aworkout on Friday, and then
Saturday morning I did um Ithink it was Oxford and Belford
with my fiance Quinn, and then Iran Hope Pass, and it was the
(06:15):
slowest Hope Pass that I've everdone by like 10 minutes.
This is the backside, and thatincludes it doing it 55 miles
into a race.
Um and so then I was I kind ofknew something was was
definitely off, and I always Isort of felt like I was had a
flu coming on, but it neverreally got past like the chills
(06:38):
and the weird temperaturefluctuations.
Um I went in and got the bloodwork done and I found out I was
anemic, um, which had never I'vebeen running for over 20 years
now, and I've um never had todeal with that um and I think
(06:59):
there was other also some othersickness going on.
And I this like weird sort ofhalf sickness had come up.
I did the Wild West relay forfun back in early uh July, and
it was the same thing where likeI felt like I'm gonna get sick,
and then I just sort of stay inthat state for a little bit.
(07:20):
Um so yeah, I was gonna runPike's Peak Marathon, but I I
cut that out unfortunately, andthen I started supplementing
iron and took pretty much all ofSeptember.
I was just doing mileage and alittle bit of vert and cut out
the workouts.
(07:41):
Um, and then by the end ofSeptember I was like feeling
back to normal, and so I sort ofdecided that I could go ahead
and run the um the Fide Calor.
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
You got it, you got it better than me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
And um, yeah, I leave for Cape Town in 10 days.
SPEAKER_02 (08:04):
Nice, nice.
Let's let's backtrack a littlebit.
I mean, if you don't mind likeme asking, like, do you think it
was more diet related?
Because I find this interesting.
I I've seen it pop up inespecially athletes that live at
altitude, it seems to beobviously more of a an issue
where it comes uh like hemocritand iron levels like kind of get
screwed up.
Um, like are you do you live areare you more vegan or
(08:26):
vegetarian?
Like, do you think that that'swhat it is, or like where do you
think that popped up from?
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
No, I'm I don't have any sort of dietary restrictions
and um yeah, one of the sort ofironic things was that I started
working with a nutritionist atthe end of last year.
I think I so I think I've likeup my nutrition game in the past
year.
So to have something like thishappen was like extra
(08:54):
frustrating.
I sort of think um when Istarted Western Saints, I was a
little sick.
Like I got a sore throat thatcame on a week before, and it
sort of got worse and worseuntil the Wednesday, the day
before the race.
And then it sort of petered out,but then I got pink eye um that
(09:17):
I was sort of dealing with likethe day before the race.
Um, so I think maybe running ahundred miles in those
conditions already sort of underthe weather, um, it may have
just buried myself more than Ithought it would.
SPEAKER_02 (09:37):
Sounds like it.
I mean, yeah, that's crazy.
If you don't mind me asking,like feeling kind of gr crummy
before the start of a race likethat, is there like pressure for
you obviously to start?
Because it's like, damn, if Idon't do this, I gotta go
requalify all over again.
Yeah, do the whole thing allover again.
Um, that must have been like alot of pressure on you to kind
of go in and do it knowing youwere a little bit compromised.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Yeah, and well, we all we sort of gaslight
ourselves into thinking thatwe're not actually sick.
Um so I was I was like checkingmy heart rate a lot.
Like my heart rate seems fine,like my running seems fine.
But when people like after therace, like I had an Airbnb in
(10:19):
Olympic Valley, and people wouldcome, and I think they're all
like talking behind my back,going like, oh Adrian sounds
really awful.
Um yeah, I didn't want to likemake it a big deal in front of
the race, but I never uh I neverthought about not starting or
even not finishing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Do you want to go back?
Is that the plan?
Or like what do you think'snext?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Uh yeah, someday.
Yeah, I kind of I don't have anyreal plans beyond Cape Town
right now.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Let's let's get into that.
Are you running are you runningthe 100k?
100 miles.
100 mile.
Okay, okay.
It's supposed to be amazing.
Have you ever been out therebefore?
I I have not.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
I've I went to South Africa for the 2010 uh FIFA
World Cup.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Um, but we didn't go to Cape Town, we sort of went
everywhere else.
Um, so I've been I've been likewanting to get back and check
out Cape Town, especially nowthat I'm like I wasn't I was
like a track runner back then,so now I'm like this looks so
cool.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Yeah.
I mean it'll be cool to see toofor in case you want to try and
qualify for Worlds for 2027,you'll get to see a lot of
whatever that course would looklike anyway.
Yeah.
Um, you know, for for you know,depending on what style you go
for, whether it's short trail,long trail, or mountain classic,
I feel like there's there's uhvery good trails.
There's a lot of interestingstuff over there too.
There's like cobras and stuff.
(11:47):
It's like it's kind of weird.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Yeah, I was just looking up like what animals all
have to be on the look for.
Yeah, yeah, and I do have cobrasand um there's some cat, the big
cat, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Leopard, I think there's leopards and stuff,
yeah.
Like yeah, that's pretty wild.
Yeah, you wanna don't want torun into one of those.
Um all right, let's let's kindof pivot a little bit.
I know you had mentioned soccer,and I do want to talk about
that, but first off, like I dowant to dive a little bit into
your origin story.
Like I know you're you're fromMassachusetts.
I know you grew up runningcross-country and track.
(12:20):
Did you did you play soccer aswell?
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Yeah, I I played soccer in high school and I
didn't switch to cross countryuntil college.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
Okay.
What position did you play forsoccer?
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
I was um I was a midfielder outside mid, so I was
just bitter than everyone else,and I was the only one that
would run over the summer.
So um that's sort of how I foundmy got my spot on the team.
Um I always think like like Iknow how much I improved in
(12:52):
running when I went full-time incollege.
Like I always wondered like howgood at soccer could I have
gotten if I had played ityear-round for four more years.
But um I was just sort ofaverage on an average team, but
I loved it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Did you I mean, uh was there ideas at any point in
time to want to play in collegeor try to, like in the
beginning, or was it more solike you just realized you were
fit and you know, let's continuecross-country track kind of
background?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
No, I had never really thought about playing
soccer in college.
My brother, he did the wholeclub soccer and he looked into
it, and he was better than Iwas, so um yeah, I guess I just
sort of figured if he can't doit, I probably can't do it
either.
SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
It's a fun sport, man.
I uh I grew up in South Floridaand that was my first sport.
I played soccer all through highschool.
Uh I was a left back.
Um, and yeah, it's such a funsport, and it's the culture.
I don't know what the culture islike in Massachusetts, but in
South Florida, you know, it's somultinational.
A lot of South American athletesuh and um Caribbean island
(14:04):
athletes like come up.
Um so it's like this melting potof just phenomenal athletes.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, so you learn it from avery young age, like it's it's
kind of embedded in the culturethere, which is kind of it's
different.
It's like unlike any other spotin the United States.
Um, what was it like for youplaying high school sports and
then going to college?
I knew you uh you went toGettysburg College.
Um did you were you recruitedout of college to uh to run uh
(14:29):
track?
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
I wasn't really recruited, so I started track my
sophomore year and I did it, Idid okay, but it was like 216 in
the 800 or something, and thatwas my event.
And then junior year I wasactually injured the whole year,
so there was no real I didn'treally have anything to send to
(14:55):
coaches.
Um so I sort of applied tocolleges without thinking about
doing sports in college, andthen my senior year I started
getting faster and faster.
And I had these schools that Ihad gotten into, and I reached
out to all the coaches there tosee if they'd have me on their
(15:16):
team.
Um in Gettysburg was the only itwas the only D3 school I applied
to, and um they didn't make cutsor anything, and so they let me
walk on the team.
I got down to like 440 in themile my senior year.
Um so it was nothing special,but yeah, I had fallen in love
(15:39):
with running at that point, andthat was one of the big reasons
I went to Gettysburg.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
After college, how how did you find the trails?
Like what got you stoked ontrail running?
Like, was it I know it's somepeople see a video of Anton
running shirtless in themountains in Leadville and other
people?
I mean, now there's people thatI get inspired to run in the
sport because of you, dude, forthe things that you've done at
Leadville.
Like, what what was it that gotyou excited about trail running?
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Um so yeah, after college, I moved um I moved back
to the Boston area and I ranwith the Greater Boston track
club, and I did a couple years.
I wanted to break 410 in themile because I ran 412 in
college and I was alwaysinjured, and so I eventually
(16:27):
decided that I would run themarathon, and so that's what I
was doing with Greater Bostonwas road marathon, and then I
moved to Colorado 2016, stilldoing like I wanted to run in
the mountains, but I stillwanted to do road marathons, and
it was really um COVID that thatgot me to make the switch.
(16:52):
Um I was training for the BostonMarathon in 2020 and that got
canceled.
It was probably like three orfour weeks before Boston, so I
was pretty fit, and I wanted touse that fitness for something,
so I went after the Towers Roaduh time trial FKT in Fort
Collins, and that's when I sortof fell in love with trail
(17:16):
running and training for that.
But it was really after I movedto Fort Collins, I was like
meeting all these people thathad done hundred-mile races, and
it was I knew one guy in Bostonwho did ultra races and it
wasn't something anyone reallythought of, and then you got
here and everyone did it, so itmade it seem much more
(17:39):
attainable.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (17:42):
I I want to pivot to um to Leadville, yeah.
After I mean, I feel like thestory of you running that race
multiple times has been told somany times.
I'm just so curious of like howmuch did change your life after
winning that race?
Like automatically thousands offollowers on Instagram.
I'm sure everybody wants to runwith you, get to know you, meet
(18:03):
you.
Uh obviously contracts come yourway.
Like, how much was that lifechanging after you won that
race?
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Yeah, it really was um life-changing because um I
mean I always loved running, andnow I get I get to do it, and
there's um sort of more purposebehind it, I think now.
And one thing I talk about iswhen I was doing road marathons,
(18:37):
usually you're doing these bigmarathons, and you're just
trying to run as fast as youcan, and there's not really much
racing.
Um and so being like near thetop of the sport brought back
the competitive part of runningthat um I didn't really have
since college when you were liketrying to win a conference title
(19:00):
or something like that.
And yeah, like you said, likepeople want to go on runs with
me, and um I get to travel theworld, which is amazing, and
meet people all over the world,and um I was also just thinking
about we had our AN summit inPortland a few weeks ago, and
(19:26):
what's cool about AN is we do itwith all the track athletes and
roadrunners.
So like Andy Weeding is themanager for the OAC in Boulder,
and like he was someone that Ilooked up to when I was running
the 800 in college, and likethere he is.
Um so yeah, it's just sort ofbeen this like wild ride that I
(19:47):
had never even like dreamed of.
Um and that's yeah, that's allcame from like winning that
first blood fill.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
Was it weird after the fact, like people will come
up and introduce themselves toyou and say hello and stuff like
that?
Like, did that ever was that alittle strange?
Because I I feel like that'sthat's gotta be the hardest
adjustment.
Like, I have quite a few peoplethat I've met on the podcast or
just adjacently in the sport,and I don't want to say they're
famous because that's weirdbecause it's not a giant sport,
but still like you getrecognized, and that's weird.
(20:19):
Like, how how have you tussledwith that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
Um yeah, like it's not like a massive theme.
I say it's like moderate fame.
The weirdest one I was back umvisiting my brother who lives
outside of Boston and he's in acountry club, and we went to
dinner in at his country clubrestaurant, and as I was getting
(20:46):
up, someone came over and said,like, hey, you're Adrian
McDonald, right?
And that was like the last placein the whole world.
Like I sort of expected if I'mat a race or like in in town
here, but at a country club inWalpole, Massachusetts, was um
yeah, it was pretty strange.
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
Yeah, I bet, I bet.
On the flip side of that coin,though, I gotta ask you this as
well.
You had success so early on inthe sport for yourself.
Like your first, really yourfirst hundred miler, you you
went and knocked one out of thepark.
Um, you know, most of the racesyou run, you do fairly well at,
but specifically with Ludvillewinning such a very high profile
(21:26):
race very early on, was therepressure after that?
Like to have to repeat?
Like, I found it veryinteresting because like the
probability of winning that racetwice, I feel like goes down
with the amount of pressure thatpeople put on themselves after
the fact.
So, how did you deal with thepressure kind of after that?
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
Yeah, the um yeah, so I ran it the next year, and
at this point I had the onsponsorship, and I had a film
crew filming me, and I um Iremember like telling people
before the race, like, I don'tthink the sponsorships and this
(22:07):
film crew adds any pressure.
Like, I already put a lot ofpressure on myself, and then I
won the race again, and like Ihad this huge sense of relief,
and I'm like, maybe there was alot of a lot of pressure on me.
Um and I just hadn't hadn'treally noticed.
(22:27):
Um I think another thing thatcame with winning Leadville like
so soon into my likeultrarunning career is I was so
like naive to the whole world ofultrarunning.
Um that like getting back tolike a race like Cirque Series,
(22:48):
like the next summer I went toCirque Series and I figured
like, oh, I won Leadville, Ishould be able to go win this
like little Cirque Series race,no easy, uh no problem.
And I get I get crushed.
Um so just sort of like learningthat they're all different types
of like races, and some peopleare good at some of them and not
(23:12):
good at others.
And like luckily for me, Ipicked one right from the start
that I'm like really good at,which is like a runnable high
altitude race.
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Yeah.
What do you think it is aboutthe altitude for you?
Like, especially you're you'rekind of an anomaly in a way that
like you're not from altitude,like you grew up in
Massachusetts.
Most people that tend to bereally, really good at altitude
for some reason have that genefrom like living in altitude at
a young age uh for yourself, youknow, and also you live in Fort
Collins, which is only what5,000 feet, so it's not like
(23:43):
it's the tallest point in thestate by any means.
So what is that physiologically?
Like I guess were you just bornlucky just to be able to adapt
really well?
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yeah, I have I have no idea.
Um because yeah, I mean, I dowhen I'm training for Leadville,
I try and get up high at like10,000 feet every weekend and
sleep up there.
But uh yeah, I don't know, it'ssort of a a mystery, and that
those types of mysteries arewhat make the sport fun right
(24:12):
now.
I'm sure at some point there'llbe all this science that comes
in and we'll be able to identifywho's good at what types of
races, but right now there'sstill some of that mystery.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
I think it's cool too.
I mean, in I think we're stillat this point in the sport where
you know the course reallymatters.
You know, some people, like forinstance, like I'm a big
mountain classic and verticalguy, like I really follow those
subsets of races.
And it was just so interestingto me seeing athletes go and
race at worlds, and that wassuch a fast course.
And athletes that you know mightnot be as you know, that are
(24:49):
faster generally tended to dobetter as opposed to athletes
that were just better ontechnical terrain, and it just
really separated.
Um, whereas had it been a supertechnical course, it would have
been a completely different typeof race.
So it's still we're still inthat point of the sport where
like course specificity reallydoes matter, which is
interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
Yeah.
I did have one like hint thatI'd be good at it, and that's
one of the reasons I pickedLudville for my first hundred
miler, was I had in 2019 I ranthe Mount Evans ascent um and
won it.
Like I sort of surprised myself.
I was like two or three weeksout from running Grandma's
(25:28):
Marathon, and it was a shortneat.
They they cut the course shortthat year, but that's when I
sort of realized like I might bereally good at high altitude.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, dude, that's one of thereasons why I was so excited to
see you line up or potentiallyline up for pikes this year.
Because I think that um, youknow, and this is no
disparagement against uh likeJohn Aziz's competition, but
like no one was there to reallychallenge John.
He was kind of alone on himself,and I feel like had you been
there, it actually would havebeen a bit more of a race
significantly.
Like you guys would have pushedeach other.
(26:00):
Um, so yeah, I I really wouldlove to see you do that race,
whether it's the ascent or themarathon at some point in time,
because I think you have uhdefinitely an opportunity to
become champion there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Yeah.
No, I yeah, I was really bummedto miss it.
And it's like tough where itstands in the calendar because
it's this was the one year whereI wasn't running like Ludville
or UTMB at the end of thesummer, so I could actually do
it.
Um but it'll be there.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
We'll get you there.
We'll make it happen.
Um, I want to pivot a little bitand talk about your training and
the types of races that you do.
And because this is somethingone of the reasons like I really
wanted to have you on thepodcast, because you strike me
as just an interesting calendarcreator.
Like you do the stuff, uh likeit seems like you'll pick one or
two long efforts per year, andthen you pepper in a lot of
(26:48):
subulture races, which I thinkis really cool because you you
mix it up on both scenes, whichnot a lot of longer distance
athletes do anymore.
Um, like a whole slew of Starkseries races dating back to like
2022.
You've done Mount Washington,what, three or four times?
You've done Kendall Canyon's 25kthis past year.
Um, like what is the thoughtprocess behind that?
(27:09):
I love you seeing you doing it.
Is it because you're excited todo these races, or is it more of
a fitness test for you?
Like, what what about theseintrigue you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Um well, one thing is that I like race, like
racing's fun, and I think it's askill that you need to practice.
Um like just getting nervous islike uh something that you need
to like learn to live with.
And if I think I if I go into abig race without having gone
(27:41):
through that in like a tune-uprace, um I think I just get way
too nervous and anxious.
Um but also the more I've doneultras, the more I sort of
realize that I don't need to dolike a huge long effort in
preparation for an ultra.
So these shorter races providethat opportunity to still race
(28:06):
and not sort of take as much outof my body as like a ultra, like
doing a 50k would do, or um likesome even longer.
Um yeah, and I always come awaylike I do pretty good at it, but
(28:28):
I always come away wishing thatI could do better.
Um it's just like amazing to seelike like I run up and down
mountains a lot, and someonelike Remy LaRue can run nine
minutes faster than me in thatan hour race.
Um yeah, it's um so it's likeit's really fun, especially when
(28:50):
you finish on a downhill, butit's also uh humbling.
unknown (28:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Yeah, I think it's a great answer.
Do you guys build it like I wecan get into coaching and talk
about that as well, but do youguys build that into the
calendar to have these stimulusin there?
Do you do them as workouts aswell?
Or is it like kind of in ablock?
Like, how do you guys structurethat?
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Um usually I'll pick out the main target race, which
is usually an ultra, and thenI'll just try and find other
races that get me excited, orlike I did Canyons, so I could
go out and get on the WesternStates course.
Um yeah, like the um the race inQuebec was the race direct on it
(29:39):
sponsored the race, and so therace director wanted someone
from on to do it, and he reachedout to me last year and it
didn't work, and it just lookedlike a fun race, and my parents
could come, so um October is atough time to find mountain
races in Colorado, so um.
(30:00):
Yeah, just I just find whatevergets me excited.
And that's why I've um I've goneback to Mount Washington a few
times because growing up in inBoston, like that's the the like
mountain race in New England.
Um I know like now it's not themost competitive one, but it's
(30:23):
still like the most iconic one.
unknown (30:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
I mean this year it was still I mean you still get
Joe at Joe pretty much everyyear.
Alex Ricard shows up, DavidSinclair.
I mean it was a pretty deepmen's field, I could say.
I mean the women's field was alittle bit less, but I mean
shout out to Rena for winningthis year.
But yeah, it was uh it's alwaysa cool race.
Like I I wish it got more morelove.
I feel like it's uh kind of justbeen quieter in the last few
(30:49):
years, which is kind of abummer.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
Yeah, I think it's tough that it's at about the
same time as Broken Arrow.
Um that's probably why there areso many good Canadians and not
many Americans there this year.
SPEAKER_02 (31:02):
Yeah.
What about the Northeast thatintrigues you?
Is it more so just the becauseuh this is something I mean, I
always bring up Tom Hooper, Ialways talk about 603, and you
know, now we have East CoastCirque series races, and I don't
know.
I'm I'm just a giant fan ofracing in the East Coast.
I think it's a lot of fun.
Uh it's just a different type ofstyle from like what we're used
to in Colorado, if you will.
Um, like what it what about theEast Coast intrigues you?
(31:24):
Is it more so homecoming foryou?
Is it is it just a challenge forsomething different?
Like what what about it excitesyou?
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
Yeah, a lot of it is just the um the nostalgia of New
England, and that's that's whereI first experienced mountains
and hiking and really being inthe outdoors.
I went to summer camp in NewHampshire.
Um and then the first everlittle backpacking trip I did
(31:52):
was I think we just did half ofthe presidential traverse, and I
thought it was so cool all thewalk through the mountains
carrying everything I needed onmy back.
Um and so that's yeah, and thatjust being able to see family
when I go and and race outthere.
Yeah, sort of kill two birdswith one stone.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Yeah.
I mean, listen, I think I meanif for from a short trail
perspective, I don't know.
I think I feel like I'msomething like a broken record
when I say this.
There's more, like way moreraces out there than in Colorado
from a short trail perspective.
And I don't know why that is,it's kind of weird.
Like we we in the mountain westfor some reason like favor
ultras a lot more.
Like there's not as many likeshort ski like aerial mountain
(32:37):
races, which is weird because wehave a ton of mountain or we
have a ton of ski resorts.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (32:42):
Yeah, like in that like sort of classic realm, like
we just have the A-Basin cirqueseries, and then there's some
like half marathons, but they'renot um I think half marathons
are sort of weird on trailsbecause you don't really need to
define the yeah, yeah, it's justlike run up and down the
(33:03):
mountain.
Um there are some cool ones thatI've done in in Wyoming, like
Pilot Hill and Gell Mountain.
SPEAKER_02 (33:11):
Oh, how is Gell Mountain?
I've never done that.
I've been look actually had thatrace on the list a few times.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Um you should definitely do it.
It's just you just it's about 10miles, it's on most, it's pretty
much a dirt road.
You just run to the top, likerun around a cone and come back
down, snow frills.
But um yeah, I think it's Ithink races like that are cool
where it's like, all right,there's a mountain here, there's
a road that goes up themountain.
(33:38):
Let's it's racing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah.
Now it's it's on that topic,like uh now that you do all
these high profile races, butyou still, you know, there's
still room for some smallerstuff as well.
Like, what do you like to dobetter now?
Like, do you do you like to finda mixture of doing both?
And and what do you think of thesport as it continues to evolve
and professionalize?
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Um yeah, like I I like doing the the shorter
races, but what really drives meis the the ultra races, and like
that's what I'm I'm like reallygood at, and um that's what gets
(34:21):
me excited to train.
Um and yeah, and like I thinkthat's sort of like what I tell
like younger runners is likelike most people go through
college and like you have to runcross-country and then you have
to do this.
(34:41):
And I've always like told them,like, yeah, like once you're out
of that, like you just do therun, the races that get you
excited, and those are probablythe ones you're gonna do best
at.
Um so that's that's sort of howI've treated my running since I
left college, and that's how I Itreat ultra running.
(35:02):
Like even like when I did theTaraware 100k, I was sort of
like wishing the whole time thatI was doing the 100 miles, but I
knew that the golden ticketwould get me to the Western
States start line.
So that's what that's what sortof drove me.
(35:22):
Um yeah, and as far as the wholeum like the the sport is um like
I this year was because I wastraining with Taylor in the
(35:44):
spring, Taylor Stack, and likewatching the sort of short trail
like season and his like amazingseason, it um it sort of like
had me thinking more about howum like the golden trail, like I
(36:06):
never really paid it muchattention to that before, but
since he was doing so well init, I was sort of following that
a bit.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Um is there a chance we could get you at a at a
golden trail series race one ofthese years?
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Yeah, I'd like to do it.
Um yeah.
Um I mean I would like love todo something like Sierras and
all, or but I don't know if Icould like build a whole season
around it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:32):
Yeah.
That's a tough race.
I mean, that's a hard thing tonail, too.
Uh what has it been like?
Because I know Taylor for uh hadlived in Fort Collins for a bit.
Um, and I know uh Tyler uhMcKinless is probably not far
from you as well, also in FortCollins.
Have you I know you've got outwith the train with Tyler or
with uh Taylor.
Have you gotten out the trainwith Tyler as well?
SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
Yeah, um yeah, Tyler he he moved to Fort Collins, I
think it was 20 2021.
So just when I was getting intothe trail running, and he sort
of was too.
So um he like has such a crazylife that it sort of if uh my
(37:14):
running can fit into hisschedule, then that's when we
meet up.
And then Taylor, Taylor'sgirlfriend, Sydney, um ran on
the track team at CSU with myfiance, Quinn.
So he sort of connected us, andhe had a more flexible schedule.
So we were running a lot,especially this past spring, and
(37:37):
I'm I'm kind of bummed that he'sleft town.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
I know, I know.
He's back in Salida doing histhing.
I he, you know, I gotta say,man, if there's anybody I gotta
give kudos to, Taylor has had acrazy good season.
Like it's been it's been wild tosee how much he's like developed
in just one year.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yeah, it is.
Um and I so we ran lastDecember, we went and ran Club
Cross Country, and it was me andTaylor and um Nick Costello,
Thomas Dean, and Forrest Barton,and we did terribly.
Um like we were none of us werevery fit, and it was it was kind
(38:19):
of cool to see like just a fewmonths later, I got a golden
ticket, and then Taylor had thisamazing season, and Forrest set
the course record at the powerof four.
Um, and then Thomas just won amarathon in um Steamtown
Marathon in Pennsylvania.
Um but it was yeah, it was um,yeah, especially Taylor.
(38:42):
It was he reached a whole newlevel.
It was cool to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (38:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, let's uh let's talk aboutFort Cotlands and just like the
running scene there.
I mean, obviously, like NickClark, I know, has been a big
cornerstone of that communityfor a minute.
But uh but what is the scenelike in general there?
SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
Um I think it's a very it's sort of a very sported
or I guess one of the coolthings about Fort Collins,
especially coming from like abig city like Boston, like when
I was in Boston, in the greaterBoston Shot Club, I would do all
(39:23):
my running with people that hada marathon PR within like two or
three minutes of me.
And then I come to Fort Collinsand just the way that the
running community is set up,I'll go on runs with um I mean
Nick was a great runner, but bythe time I got here he was a
(39:44):
little bit past it, and likeI'll train with someone like
like him, and then uh likeGerald Mock is in town and he's
a 210 marathoner, and I'll trainwith him.
Um so it's sort of like a a veryI guess like inclusive running
community, um which um I thinkmakes it feel like very
(40:11):
supportive as well.
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah.
I mean it's a good mix.
You've got a few elites inthere, uh or quite a few elites
actually, and you know, youngguns continuing to come up, and
it's kind of a growing cooltown, you know.
I don't know.
It's not Boulder, which I kindof like because I feel like
Boulder's just so saturated withwith I listen, I got a lot of
listeners in this podcast thatlive in Boulder, so there's no
shade to that.
I love them all, but I feel likethere's just a lot of people and
(40:35):
a lot of athletes in that areathat it's it's it's easy to get
FOMO and and you know, followingaround what other people are
doing.
Whereas I almost feel like itmight be more in conducive to do
better in a small, at least forme in a smaller town.
Like that's why I love ColoradoSprings.
It's like there's a lot of usfloating around, but at the same
time, it's like you know, peopleare doing their own thing, and
it's just not as much pressureas like a place like Boulder,
(40:57):
which is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah.
Um yeah, it almost seems likelike in Boulder, there's like
groups that are like competingwith each other to be like the
best in Boulder and in fourcolumns that's like, all right,
let's all get really fit and gobeat beat all these people from
Boulder.
(41:20):
That's true.
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
On the topic of Nick Clark, uh, can you talk a little
bit about like is he's you knowlike he's been around, he's a
legend in Ultra Intrail Running,uh, been around the scene for a
long time.
I I think I watched, I can'tremember what documentary it was
with you uh he was in it.
Um talk a little bit about thatrelationship.
Has he been a more of a mentorfigure for you as you've kind of
(41:45):
exploded onto the scene?
SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
Yeah, so I got to know Nick through um I'm on the
board of the Fort CollinsRunning Club, and the running
club owns the Horse Tooth HalfMarathon, and he's the race
director for that, so he wouldcome to most of our meetings and
be like a pretty involved withthe club.
(42:08):
And he helps put on some otherraces for the club too.
And then um he was the one thatI in the summer of 2020, I was
on a run with Nick, and I'mlike, I want to run Leadville
next summer, uh, 2021.
(42:29):
And his first response was, Whywould you want to do that?
And he's run probably a dozenhundred milers.
Um so yeah, he was um like amentor, especially in those like
first my first few years, andhe's great because he would I
(42:54):
was sort of scared to like askhim to come pace me at my first
Leadville.
Um, and then I did, and he saidyes.
And I felt like that was a likesign that he thought I could do
well.
Um and like I always know likeif Nick thinks like he'll tell
me, like, when I went into UTMB,he's like, I don't think you can
(43:16):
get like top five, top ten inyour first go there.
SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
Um I mean I I appreciate the him being real.
I mean, I think that's that fromone runner to another, I mean,
that's a hard race to nail.
And yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Um so like when I know he says, like, I think you
can do this at this race, thenum like I know that it that it
means something.
Um yeah, then unfortunately he'shad some injuries the past uh
couple years, so we haven't beenable to run much together.
(43:54):
But I had a son Alistair pacingme at Western States this year,
and we did a lot of trainingtogether.
He's off in college now, so I'mmissing him too.
Um yeah, and then the I don'tknow if you've been to one of
his races.
SPEAKER_02 (44:10):
Uh no, I actually I've I've wanted to do Quad
Rock.
The 2025 miles is a little farfrom me, but yeah, yeah, Quad
Rock has definitely been one onthe list for a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Yeah, he the events that he and his partner Brad put
on are probably some of the bestbest out there.
And I've heard never summers umthat's another great race.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Yeah, we've got to convince him to add a smaller
distance for force.
SPEAKER_01 (44:38):
He has talked about doing a VK up there.
SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
Oh, dude, he does a VK, I'll promote it for him.
Yeah.
Speak that into existence.
SPEAKER_01 (44:46):
I think the the park, the state parks people are
worried about people beingstranded up on the top of the
mountain when they finish.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
It's always the logistics, man.
It's the problem with VKs in thestate.
Uh yeah, we need more.
That's uh something you knowI've been talking about on the
pod for a while.
We need more VKs.
Um yeah, no, I'm I'm I I don'tknow.
I really appreciate like I findit very interesting, uh, like
that dynamic and relationshiplike Nick Clark, like I said,
just a you know, probably a hallof famer when it comes to the
(45:19):
ultra-running scene, beenaround, run everything.
Um, so it's kind of cool to see,you know, the older crowd
mentoring, you know, the youngerguys coming up uh as they kind
of make their way into thescene.
Um one thing he had mentionedabout UTMB, is that something
you'd ever go back to?
Is that something you'd wannayou'd want to go and take
another crack at?
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, and like one of the reasonsI'm doing Cape Town is it's I
think I jumped into UTMB tooquickly the first time I did it.
Um and so Cape Town has asimilar to UTMB, it starts at 5
p.m.
on a Friday, and so you startout through the night, and it's
(46:01):
got like 23,000, 24,000 feet ofgain and loss, which isn't quite
what UTMB has, but more thanLeadville um and the other races
that I've done really well at.
So um yeah, I definitely want tosort of work towards going back
(46:21):
to UTMB.
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
It's an interesting thing to figure out.
Any of those like lesserdistances intrigue you, like a
OCC or CCC?
Because I feel like you wouldAmericans for some reason tend
to do so much better at CCC forsome reason.
SPEAKER_01 (46:35):
Yeah, um yeah, like I do think I could I think I
could do well at both OCC andCCC, but uh UTMB is the big one.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Yeah, that's scary.
It's scary how how how long anddistant that is.
Um really quick, I want to shiftgears and talk about on.
I know you said you had just gotback from um a team summit.
Talk about that.
Like what was that like?
Um, you know, obviously there'ssome stuff you probably can't
talk about as far as productgoes, but like, you know, and
(47:07):
stuff for the future, but um,yeah, what's it like getting
together with your teammates andand talking about you know race
plans and and future of thebrand and all that stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
Um yeah, it's really exciting to be a part of on
because it's growing so quickly,and this is my fourth year, and
just seeing how much it'sprogressed in the last um few
years is amazing and inspiring.
(47:40):
Um yeah, and like I was talkingabout before, it's cool to be
with the OEC track team and theother um like amazing track and
road runners that they have.
Um yeah, and then our group oftrail runners is really cool.
(48:00):
Like David Kilgore is ourmanager, and he's so fun to be
around.
Um Yeah, like there's I don'tknow, I'm always telling people
like if you haven't tried an onshoe in like the last five
years, like you need to like goand try it out again because
(48:26):
they're just rapidly improving.
And I've only we have our newPicot Ultra Pro.
Um, and I haven't run in anyother Trail Super Shoe, but
everyone that tries it says theylove it and that it's the best
one out there.
Um and so it's like cool to be apart of the whole development
(48:47):
process of that and see how thatworks.
Um yeah, and it's like a cool,it's a cool brand.
Um yeah.
Um not all like running brandsare cool.
Like Nike has always been cool,and I think on has like worked
its way into being a coolrunning brand.
SPEAKER_02 (49:10):
I gotta say one thing, your kits are sick.
Like the kits this year are thebest I've ever I think one of
the best in trail running, in myopinion.
Like the uh, I don't know, withthat like yellow with green kind
of, and then with the white, uhlike the singlets are and the
shirts are dope.
Uh oh, yeah, the I think it'sthe yellow and black singlets
that I've seen Patrick andPhilemon wear.
(49:31):
And I was like, yeah, yo, thoseare dope.
Um some of the singlets arereally cool.
And shoe technology, I've heardamazing things from.
It's cool to see them now.
They finally developed a pack.
Um, and you know, it seems likethey have a belt product out
there as well.
So it's kind of neat that youguys have like kind of the full
kit, which has come a long way,which is cool.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Oh, and one of the um's adding they've sort of soft
launched it, but they havesprinters now.
And so we had these sprinters umat the on summit, and they had
no idea that there was such athing as a hundred-mile races,
and they were sort of blownaway, blown away by it.
(50:12):
And um, yeah, it was kind of Ididn't know this at the time
when I was like chatting withthem at dinner, and then I went
home and looked them, lookedthem up, and one of them was his
name's Max, and he ran at USCand was second in the MCAA um in
the 100 meters, like 992.
(50:33):
I'm like, wow, this like firstit's cool, but I've never talked
to a sub-10 second 100-meterrunner before, and that he
thinks what I do is so likecrazy, is um it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (50:46):
Yeah, it's legit.
How do you moving on from on?
How how do you view likeyourself in the sport?
Like, do you view this as acareer?
Is this something you want to dolike long term?
Or I know you also have a dayjob as well.
Um, but how do you view it?
Are you is it a legacy thing foryou?
Like you want to go win moreraces, add to the legacy, and
(51:07):
have this like amazing career,or do you view it like one year
at a time?
How do you kind of like break itup in your brain?
SPEAKER_01 (51:14):
I do think I sort of look at it one year or one
training block at a time, andit's um it's something that I
that I want to do for as long asI'm able.
Um I've had someone ask me,like, hey Adrian, are you gonna
still run when you retire?
(51:36):
And I'm like, what is what doyou mean retire?
Like I've always run, so I Ijust think it's something that
I'm that I'm always gonna do ifI'm able to.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (51:48):
Yeah, it's a cool sport.
Talk about your YouTube channel,what it takes.
Um, I was like in the prep forthis episode, I started doing
digging into your uh WesternStates videos, which I thought
were excellently done, man.
Like your YouTube channel isamazing.
Um, do you plan to build on thatat all?
SPEAKER_01 (52:05):
Or um so that was uh Jacob Matchmere, who's um he's a
he lives in Fort Collins, he andhis wife have uh like a media
business.
They mostly work with uh likebusinesses and they'll like film
(52:29):
a corporate event that's goingon, and that's how they make
their money.
And but they also they have likea cabin in Winfield, which is
the turnaround at Leadville, sothey go out there every year and
he like discovered that I livedin Fort Collins, and so after I
got the golden ticket atTarowera for Western states, he
(52:52):
reached out and was like, hey,we need to do something.
Um and we were I think like thebiggest inspiration was uh
Clayton Young's YouTube series.
Um and so we wanted to dosomething like that that would
sort of build excitement for therace.
(53:13):
Um yeah, and he did an anamazing job, and um it was yeah,
he just sort of like embeddedhimself with my my training and
racing for the whole WesternStates build.
Um I'd love to do do somethinglike that again, but it's a lot
(53:37):
of work for him.
Um and just like finding theresources to to pay him for it
um would was a little difficult.
So um we might do somethingbefore I take off for Cape Town
and um but yeah, I'd love to todo something like that again
(54:01):
with him because yeah, it was hedid such a good job.
Oh, an amazing job.
SPEAKER_02 (54:05):
I I like and I'll I'll link it in the show notes
so folks can run over to the uhto your YouTube channel and uh
subscribe and watch becauseyeah, they're fantastically
done.
And I love how it wasn't justlike one big film, it was broken
up individually into episodes.
Um there was you know, it justreally captured like your
Western States one of you.
I forget what aid station youwere at, but you were you were
(54:25):
suffering, dude.
And I was like, oh my god, thispoor guy, this poor guy.
But he really did a great job atcapturing like the the emotion
of it and and just kind of whereyou were mentally and and you
know how you were kind ofgetting through it.
And yeah, it was it was like Isaid, I I don't want to give too
much away, but the audienceshould definitely check it out.
And did you keep it like I said,in whatever way you can keep
(54:47):
something like that going.
I think it's kind of cool.
Yeah.
See if you can get some videosof like workouts or something
like that with like I don'tknow, get Tyler out or someone
and get more pros together to uhbecause I think that that's the
next like iteration of of likethe professionalism in the sport
is doing more because like Ithink the road group does the
like the the roadies do such abetter job of uh like getting
(55:09):
content and being able to filmthat stuff and putting it out
there for the world to see.
And like I feel like we cancontinue to make trail uh more
just bigger and more fun withthat, you know, with stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (55:20):
So like all the cool places we um we like get to run.
It's like it looks cool.
Yeah, like I think the one ofthe interesting things about
Clayton's like you always havethis cool like mountain back
backdrop in Provo, but then he'slike running around an
industrial park and there'straffic everywhere.
(55:42):
It's chaos, yeah.
Yeah, um, yeah, I'm gonna tryand get more out there.
Yeah, because I like really umone of the things that's really
cool about Ultra Running is likethe community and the like
people, like it's an individualsport, but you have like your
(56:05):
crew and all these othercharacters that are involved.
And I liked um I liked howpeople got to like meet Quinn
and um like Taylor was in therea little bit and Alistair and um
like my mom.
Um it was it was like so specialto have that period, even though
(56:26):
the race didn't turn out well tohave that period of my life
captured like that.
SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
Oh yeah.
I mean, dude, no matter how oldyou are, at any point in time in
your life, you could that'ssomething you can always go back
to and watch and like be like,man, I did that.
And the people, you know, peoplethat really cared about me were
with me supporting me throughthis.
So yeah, it is.
It's very special.
It's uh it's one of those cool,like one of the coolest aspects
of the sport for sure.
(56:52):
Um but yeah, man.
Well, listen, we're at about anhour.
Uh Adrian, I want to thank youso much for coming on the pod,
man.
This was a great conversation.
Uh, definitely want to continueto have these.
Um, we'll talk more as far as2026 season goes, but I I'm
trying to get into all I'm gonnatry to get into Mount Wash.
So hopefully I see you up thereif you go out there and race
this year.
If not, uh I'll see if I canI'll make my way up to Fort
(57:14):
Collins to get out for a run.
Something like that.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah, man.
Well, dude, thanks for comingon.
I really appreciate it, and uh,we'll be in touch.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (57:22):
Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_02 (57:23):
Thanks.
Guys, what'd you think?
Uh, want to thank Adrian so muchfor coming on the pod.
As always, uh super appreciativeof his time and uh his
storytelling.
It's great to get to catch upwith him and uh get to learn
more about him.
So the best way you can supporthim is uh click on over to the
show notes.
You're gonna see AdrianMcDonald, follow him on
Instagram, um, give him afollow, let him know what you
(57:43):
guys thought about the episode,send him a DM.
I'm sure we'd love from here tohear from all of you.
Um yeah.
Also, if you enjoyed the pod andyou are enjoying our episodes,
uh best way you can support usis to give us a five-star rating
and review as well as a followon Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or
wherever you consume yourpodcast.
Some cool new stuff droppingdown the pike.
I really love and I hope youguys are loving the video
episodes that we've been rollingout on Spotify and YouTube.
(58:05):
It's kind of a new thing.
Still kind of new to videoediting here, uh, so bear with
me.
It's a been a bumpy ride.
Um, but yeah, we're gettingthere.
And uh very last but not least,the best way you can support us
as well is to support our brandpartner, that's Ultimate
Direction.
Head on over toultimatedirection.com and use
code SteepstuffPod.
That's right, one word, SteepStuff Pod, and get yourself 25%
(58:26):
off your car.
Guys, it's that time of theyear, especially in the front
range of Colorado.
It's starting to get reallychilly.
I think today was in the 40s.
Um, you're gonna need a jacket.
Hop on over to UltimateDirection.
Check out the ultra jacket.
The thing is dope, nice andinsulated.
And if you get 25% off, it'sjust gonna make you feel so much
better, especially if you buy itfor like a loved one for a
holiday.
There you go.
Now you're talking stockingstuffers.
(58:47):
Um, on top of that, check outthe vest.
New race vest six liter and anultra vest 12 liter just dropped
uh a few months back.
Definitely check those out insome beautiful colorways, as
well as the belt.
I'm a big fan of the comfortbelt.
Comfort belt is dope.
It's actually comfortable.
Um, check that out as well.
And like I said, use code SteepStuffPod for 25% off.
Uh, guys, thanks so much fortuning in.
(59:07):
Appreciate y'all and uh newstuff uh coming down the plate
this week.
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