World Championships Race Preview & Analysis - Uphill, Mtn Classic & Short Trail with Robert Prosser - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the steep stuff podcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to finally
bring you guys a breakdownepisode.
This is gonna be a race previewfor the vertical, the mountain
classic and the short trail forthe world mountain running
championship that's gonna betaking place starting tomorrow,
the 25th of September, andrunning through the weekend and
the 28th, kicking off with thevertical as well as the,

(00:22):
subsequently followed by thelong trail short trail and
finally ca kicking off with thevertical as well as the
subsequently followed by thelong trail short trail and
finally capped off with themountain classic that's going to
be taking place on Sunday.
I'm joined by co-host RobertProsser.
You guys might recognize thatname from Substack and Instagram
.
Robert is a local ColoradoSprings-based Substack writer as

(00:42):
well as podcast host, where heruns a sub stack called Rob runs
round and he frequentlycomments and commentates and
discusses and talks about freetrial fantasy picks, as well as
provides his own race previewepisodes.
He's an absolute brain, hasextremely good recall on a lot

(01:03):
of these athletes, so I thinkthere's going to be a ton of
value for you guys looking tolock in your free trial fantasy
picks.
I'm super excited about this, um, and it's just exciting to uh
get to spend some time with Robtalking to him, uh, about what
he thinks.
Um, as far as the winners andpicks are going to go for, uh,
the world mountain runningchampionship, um, it's kind of
funny how we kind of lean backand forth, where I'm a little

(01:24):
bit more on the American rah-rahside and Rob is a little bit
more data-based.
So we provide some good balancethere as far as our selections
and picks.
I think there's some goodbanter back and forth and, just
like I said, hopefully a lot ofvalue.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
We do start and kind of bouncearound.
This is a preview episode, likeI said, for all three, some

(01:47):
ultra categories, which is goingto be the vertical, the
mountain classic and the shorttrail.
Guys enjoy this one Really.
Appreciate you tuning in andthanks so much.
It's time.

(02:11):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

(02:57):
We are live.
Robert Prosser.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's going good and happy to be here and grateful
you invited me, so I'm excitedto talk about Worlds today.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, dude, I'm excited to be able to do this.
You know you're a local in theSprings now and you know you and
I bumped into one another onthe trail.
I had no idea you were doingmedia stuff and I was like, oh
well, this could be a perfectopportunity to talk about worlds
, have a conversation around it,and it's a huge week, probably
one of the biggest weeks of oursport so far.
So, um, yeah, dude, maybe tell,tell the audience a little bit

(03:33):
about yourself and like yourbackground and your sub stack
and the stuff you're working on.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah for sure uh, yeah, it was a cool coincidence.
I've known that we were both inthe springs and I think, uh,
just scheduling wise then alsome being gone a lot of this year
for military stuff um, and kindof just worked out that we ran
into each other when we did.
And then, uh, yeah, kind ofbeen trowing uh, this past.
Pretty much for this whole yearI've been doing, uh, a podcast
on substack.

(03:57):
Um, for anyone that's a bigfantasy free trail fan and likes
to make picks on fantasy freetrail, I pretty much break down
all the races that are going togo on there.
I kind of make picks for topfive or top 10, depending on how
deep they're going Uh, and thenjust talk about each of the
runners and their kind of samegoal as your podcast to build
fans within the sport, uh, toget people excited and kind of
to get people interested in theindividual stories of each

(04:19):
runner.
And so, um, yeah, that's on substack at, rob runs around and
yeah, it was just kind of a coolcoincidence that we happen to
run into each other and I'm veryexcited, cause I think that as
we talk about world today, we'lllike we'll see that this is
probably the best, almostdefinitely the best worlds, uh,
from all the countries we'veever had, so that's like pretty
exciting as well.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
It is deep, man, it was so deep.
Um, yeah, dude, one of thethings I really enjoyed and I
just gotta give you your kudoslike the Matterhorn Ultrax
Extreme episode.
I was like, oh man, that's a,it's a great race and it's a
great race that like only likethe euros follow, like it's not
talked about a lot in America,like I've had a lot of teammates
of mine run it, um, and justlike I personally wanted to do
that race for a long time andit's just, it's just so epic, so

(04:57):
that one, the series and allone like there's a lot of value
there.
So keep doing what you're doing.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, ultra case, I actually, um, I almost raced
that this year and I was reallyreally tempted to and, yeah, I
totally agree, I think I triedto be.
I really like European trailracing and I feel like every
country in Europe kind of hasits own like mountain culture,
um, and I try to not be like theunknowledgeable American that
like only knows us trail runnersLike we have a lot of amazing
trail runners, but I also like,really like european trail

(05:22):
runners, and I think that, uh,when we talk about these worlds
teams, like when I talk aboutsome of the spaniards and the
french guys, like you'll seethat, yeah, there's some really
cool guys abroad, um, andsometimes on the western
audience, we don't really get tohighlight them as much or we
don't know them as much if theydon't know, if they don't speak
english as much.
So I definitely try to focus onthat.
And ultra k is an epic race andnow you mentioned that too.
Actually, if anyone wants tosee like the most beautiful

(05:45):
video ever, ever, um, if you goto the sky running world series
page and you look at the manuelmarias who we're going to talk
about on our preview here soon,if you look at his downhill from
the ultra k race, it's justlike.
It's like poetry, emotions oneof my favorite things.
So, um, yeah, there's somereally beautiful races out there
.
So, for sure, for sure.
And you just and you just gotback from Austria, correct?
Yep, just got back from Austria.

(06:06):
I originally was going to racethe Adidas Terex race that was
over there, and we had ascheduling conflict where I had
to come back a week earlier, soI ended up doing a race and just
the next Valley over from uh,bagdestein, I did a race at uh
in a town called gross oral anduh, yeah, it was just like a
cool 50K pretty mountainous raceabout two hours south of
Salzburg.
So it was cool, that was fun,and then also just got back

(06:28):
Slovakia, the Tatra Mountainsthat are right on the Polish and
Slovakian border.
That was probably the coolestthing I did on the trip.
The Tatra Mountains are really,really sick and I think they're
kind of in that category thePyrenees, where people don't get
the hype that Mont Blanc, maybelike the swiss uh alps and
stuff like that get, but um, thetatras, they're not as high
elevation lines, they're onlylike 8 000 feet ish, but the

(06:49):
peaks are like super sick soreally cool place, technical too
, like the tatra sky race, andthere's only quite a few like.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
I mean, I think golden trail was supposed to had
a race last year.
They got canceled there.
Yep, that's beautiful,beautiful area.
Um, all right, let's get into.
It could dive into.
Uh, worlds happening this week,september the 25th through the
28th.
Uh, this is the world mountaintrail, world mountain and trail
running championship takingplace in confrank paneros.

(07:15):
Um, did you look at all at theweather?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
uh, I have not yet.
Uh, I have not specifically yet, but I heard other people
talking about it yeah, so we caneven look at it right now.
I'll pull it up as you'resaying, all right as you're
looking it up.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
One of the things I'm going to talk about is, once,
what's really interesting aboutthis race is, I think, a lot of
ways, the scoring as well as theoverall system that it is.
There's obviously going to beoverall medals for the top three
, but there's also going to bemedals for the team system,
almost kind of like across-country race, where the
teams are ranked based offpoints, um, which is pretty cool
.
As far as far as place and time, um, yeah, I don't know, you

(07:51):
got what?

Speaker 2 (07:51):
do you got seen over there for confrank yeah, so
right now the weather is lookingpretty good.
Um, thursday, friday, saturdayif I'm doing my math correctly,
that should be championship, oreven friday, saturday, sunday.
But the ranges are kind of from60 and the highs to 34 and the
lows, and it's not reallyshowing much precipitation.
So, um, it seems like it'll becool and clear as of right now,

(08:13):
but obviously that could changeand I imagine the long, the
longer the course is, the morevariable the weather is.
But right now it looks prettynice, considering the weather,
not too hot, not too cold.
Um, so it seems like theyprobably timed it well,
weather-wise, sweet that's.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
it means such a cool area.
I don't know if you saw jasmineluther's uh instagram story
recently.
She uh, like went to jump overa log and like it's a wild
course.
Dude, she went to jump over alog and there was a wild boar
hanging on underneath of it andlike she scared it and like it
ran off and I was like, oh man,I just talked to about this and
it's kind of a crazy story.
But yeah, like it's a very wildcourse, like there's wild
animals on it.

(08:46):
There's cows watch out for them.
Uh, wild boars.
I don't know if there's bearsin the area.
I know Europe has areas withlots of bears, uh, but yeah,
just a very wild and out therecourse.
Um, let's talk about thedistances.
Maybe we start with a Thursday,the 25th.
That's going to be the uphill,the vertical race.
That's going to be about 6.4kilometers with about 990 meters

(09:08):
of climbing, so that's about3,280 feet.
So perfect.
Vk, the Mountain Classic, isgoing to take place on Sunday,
the 28th.
That's a 14K race, 14.3k, soit's 8.8 miles, with about 775
meters or 2,542 feet of verticalshort trail.
That's going to be 45 K, or27.6 miles, which is about 3,657

(09:32):
meters of climbing, so that'sabout 12, 12,000 feet.
That's so crazy that, like the,the short trail course, I think
is in my opinion from thepeople I've talked to, it just
like kind of sticks out to me aslike one of the more gnarly
bang for your bucks.
For 27 miles you're getting upto well like 12,000 feet of
verticals, bananas.
And then there's a long trail82 K, which we're not going to

(09:52):
be previewing today.
We're only going to bepreviewing the uphill, the
classic and the short trail, butthe long trail just for stats,
82 K, 50 miles and 17,759 feet,which equates to about 5,413
meters of vertical gain, whichis bananas as well.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
So, yeah, what sticks out to you about some of these
courses?
I think the most noticeablething in my mind that,
especially, we don't reallyexperience this in the States,
or if we do, it's not as asfrequent.
Um, looking at the short trailcourse, I'm looking at the very
first climb and I can't see whatthe starting elevation, but
it's probably like a four, five,maybe even six thousand foot
climb and then they'll oftenhave like four, five, six

(10:33):
thousand foot descents.
Uh, last year I did a race inthe pyrenees, not in confrank
but um, a little bit moretowards the andorra border, in a
town called real, and the thingthat stuck out to me, I had a
six mile descent with like sixthousand feet of descending, and
we just don't have descentslike that in the states, either
that steep or just thatprolonged.
I mean, even if we're, you know,out here in colorado going on a
14 or the most we're going togo down is like four or five

(10:55):
thousand feet or even likepike's peak, you know it's
spread out over, you know halfmarathon to get down, so we
don't really have anythingthat's like that rugged and or
that really that steep and so,um, looking at a short trail
course, I'm just like a lot ofpeople are gonna come out too
hard in the first climb anddescent and get pretty cooked
and then not have likes for thenext two big climbs.
Um, that's kind of the initialthing that stands out and then,

(11:18):
yeah, it's just super rugged,like you said.
I mean, it's really impressivehow much they're fitting into
such a short course, um, but Ithink that's exciting because it
really opens up the course tonot people that are just really
fast.
It really takes a lot ofdurability, uh, and also a lot
of technique when you'redescending to not blow out your
quads in the first couple ofdescents.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
So I couldn't agree more.
I think if you're like more ofa finesse runner and less of a
technical runner, like I thinkyour Manuel Morales is of the
world, are going to have a lotof success.
You're in, you know, um,there's so many like technical
based athletes lucas, alpero,that like stick out to me, that
I think will have success.
But if you were just someonethat, let's just say, if you're
not multi-dimensional and do notlike running on really burly

(11:57):
technical terrain, this is goingto like, and if you're not
mentally prepared for it, Ithink it's going to you up.
It's funny.
You said something like as faras like, not having it in the
States like this is such a firstworld problem and I do love
living in Colorado, but likethis is where I do get envious
of the Wasatch guys, becausethere are, I think, longer
runnable climbs is something wedon't have, and longer runnable

(12:19):
like steep descending issomething we also don't have in
colorado, I mean, we also have alot of good things, but that
said, it's funny.
You say that like I think we'realmost not to do a detriment,
but we get a little bit lessprepared in certain states where
, yeah, like I don't know, dude,you look around the springs,
it's like, unless I'm running upblodgett, which is 2500 feet or
24, 2500 feet vertical, andyou're not running the entire

(12:41):
thing, you're hiking a goodchunk chunk of it as well.
But that said, it's like that'ssuch a technical, hard climb.
It's like we lack that specific2000 to 3000, maybe 4,000 foot
climb.
Um, that's runnable, uh, in ashort distance.
So yeah, going back to theother thing, the other thing
that stands out to me is the uplike.
So the two courses that reallyinterest me are both the uphill

(13:04):
and the classic.
So both of these courses havehad races on them before.
Unlike the actual short trail,the long trail, the mountain
classic specifically had a raceon it last year, where it's this
perfect two loop system.
I'm very curious to see howguys are going to take it out on
this, or they're just going togo for broke on the first loop,
hang on for dear life on thesecond.
It seems to be kind of theattitude I've gotten from

(13:29):
athletes like Remy Leroux andothers that are going to be
racing the mountain classic.
And then Christian Allen reallygave me some good bait on the
vertical, where it seems to behis type of course, very
runnable, obviously steep, butlots of good footing, very
runnable, less hiking in there.
So it's going to be interesting.
I think there's going to be alot of play good play for the
Americans on this, because a lotof the climbs are very runnable
, um, and the the sense of wherewe're going to find out we're

(13:52):
going to find out who's the mostprepared for this type of race
Um, because there's a lot oflike very long techie
switchbacks, a lot of longdescents.
Um, yeah, so that's kind ofwhat I got there.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, um, yeah.
So that's kind of what I gotthere.
Yeah, I'm excited.
I think that it's cool.
Uh, like you said, jasmineluther's video.
I've been watching some rubylundquist I follow and a handful
of others that are on thecourse right now.
Um, and yeah, it just looksgorgeous.
Uh, and yeah, there was a raceon it last year and you're right
that some of the coursesoverlap, so hopefully that gives
us a little bit insight intopotential time ranges and also
kind of where people made theirmoves as well.
Very true.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
All right, let's talk about.
I do want to get into theAmerican contingent just because
we have, for this specifically,we do have a very large
American following.
I'm just going to name thenames off on the uphill, the
classic and the short trail, forboth men and women.
Starting off uphill for thewomen, the team members are Anna
Gibson, sydney Peterson,hillary Allen and Jessica Brayu.

(14:47):
Uphill, for the men are goingto be Cam Smith, joseph Gray,
christian Allen and TylerMcCandless.
For the Mountain Classic, annaGibson doubles back from the
uphill to the Mountain Classic,as well as Allie Mack, courtney
Coppinger and Lauren Gregory.
Cam Smith as well is going tobe doubling back from the uphill
to the Mountain Classic, alongwith David Norris, mason Copey

(15:08):
and Taylor Stack, and then theshort trail team is going to be
Grayson Murphy, ruby Lindquist,lindsay Allison, helen
Minow-Faulkner, jane Maus andTabor Hemming, and then the
men's short trail team which iscrazy, how stacked these teams
are uh.
David sinclair, eli hemming,michelino sansari, seth ruling,
noah williams and max king.

(15:31):
Um, I do want to give a notefor casuals or people that are
just tuning in um ryan becker,um did have an injury.
Um at, uh, sorry, at um speedgoat this year.
Um, and is going to be replacedby Max King, who has a ton of
background.
I mean, I think he's like the2011 mountain running champion.

(15:53):
I wrote this down somewhere, Idon't know where it is.
Yeah, 2011 mountain runningworld champion from Albania,
which is kind of a crazy place.
Yeah, max brings decades ofexperience.
It's kind of crazy how manyWorlds teams he's been on lots
of.
Uh, I think there's going to bea lot of good storylines around
the americans.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, I think max also has the master steeplechase
, uh, us record, if I'm notmistaken.
I think he just broke it lastyear, um, and yeah, he's been.
If there's like a record for asmany us teams as possible, joe
gray obviously has it, but maxking is probably second in line.
So it's right there, tons ofexperience it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
What do you think about this?
We have two of our likelong-standing american men on
this team.
Max king and joseph gray areboth.
You know, joe is going to be 42this year and I think max is
already 43, 44, yeah I think heis so I I mean, I hate to say it
, but but like, um, you know,being friends with Joe and
knowing Joe, like I do wonder,like, is this, is this?
It Is this the last go for forworlds?

(16:50):
I doubt it, Highly doubt it.
I think Joe makes at least oneor two more worlds teams, but
max three 30, 40, sorry, 43, 44.
This could be the last go forhim.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's impressive.
Every time I think he can't doit again, like every year he
just still stays as fast, likehe's a really really speedy and
really really durable athlete.
Um, and yeah, it kind of feelslike joe gray and him might be
like the ludo pomerays of likethe short, short trail world,
but I think that long trail hassome things that favor, uh, age

(17:18):
and experience, and I think thatit's really impressive that max
and joe are still kind ofrunning in more or less like the
young man's game where the theshort and like fast twitch
muscle fibers are really reallyimportant uh, but they're still
like I mean they'll smoke any ofus in a race any day.
So yeah, it is reallyimpressive.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
But I don't know we'll see.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
I mean, I thought joe I'm not gonna say I doubted him
, but I didn't.
I didn't think I didn't knowthat he would be up there as
well, as he was at Broken Arrow.
So it's really cool to see himtargeting races and still
knocking out of the park when hewants to.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Who did you have on that?
I'm just so curious who did youhave on that podium for Broken
Arrow?

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Broken Arrow.
I'm pretty sure I did haveChristian Allen.
I mean, I feel like I had tohave Killian Drené, but I wasn't
expecting the jet lag.
And then I'm trying to thinkwho else raced I might've had.
I don't know.
That's a good question.
I don't remember, cause I'mtrying to think to the field and
I just remember it kind of tookme by surprise, like cause I,
like Killian, obviously didn'trun a great race, having just

(18:16):
got in from this, uh, fromEurope, but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Think I had joe gray on there, so I will admit that I
was wrong.
For, for sure there.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
So yeah, you heard it here first.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I'm kidding no, no, no, dude, it's funny.
What if I were to tell you that, like, maybe it wasn't so much
jet lag, maybe killing blewhimself up.
From what I've heard, that'sjust gonna put that one out
there in the world.
I don't know, he did have agreat race.
Western states look at that.
But yeah, I don't know.
I it's uh, dude, it's a youngman's game and Christian is so
talented now and you see guyslike Taylor Stack coming up and
just so many really, reallytalented young men in the sport,

(18:51):
and it's just getting crazier.
So it's been fun to follow.
All right, let's get into somestorylines.
I already said Max King isgoing to be replacing Ryan
Becker.
We love you, ryan.
Shout out to Ryan.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Spigo almost killed her.
He really looked awesome thisyear, so that's a bummer, but I
hope he heals.
I know he's always had Kelly'sissues here and there, but yeah,
he's really impressive and it'sreally fun to follow him.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah he's the man Max .
Like I said, 2011 WorldMountain Running Champion from
Albania is going to bring a tonof experience.
Another storyline I have I do Ihad to throw out joe in there
uh, searching for his thirdworld championship.
And second, so it'd be a secondvertical championship.
Um, he was fifth in 2023.
His two championships one inthe vertical and one is was in

(19:35):
the mountain classic um, Ibelieve one was 2019, I think
the other one was 2016.
Um, grayson murphy is alsogoing to be in this race moving
up in distance.
Uh, she's going to be searchingfor her third world
championship as well.
Um, this time she is in themarathon.
Um, she was a previous winnerin the mountain classic back in
2023, and she was also a bronzemedalist in the uphill in 2023.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, and I think it'd be cool.
It's really impressive howversatile she is, and so that'd
be pretty sweet if she could getmedals in every category is
something I was noticing withthat, cause she's already got,
like you said, a gold uphill, abronze in the uptown and then
maybe potentially a metal herein the short trail, and then
maybe she just keeps moving herway up to the long trail stuff,
cause she's kind of doing longerand longer races.
So that's a pretty coolversatility there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, and you know I can.
I really respect it.
I like to see Grayson you knowit's always interesting if you I
would say Grayson's a masterLike it's always interesting to
me people that find mastery at acertain sport or whatever,
crafted as you do in life.
And Grayson definitely hasfound mastery at a lot of things
that she's done in the sportand now is like you know, by
moving up in distance.

(20:36):
There's a lot of unknowns therefor her and you know you see
her throwing, you know throwingdarts at the wall, racing 50 Ks
broken arrow, and she took ashot at speed goat as well and
is definitely trying, you know,to figure things out and see you
know the stuff she likes andthe stuff she doesn't like.
So I think it's really cool.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
I admire that and people that don't just do the
same thing and expand out andtry to do new stuff yeah, and
it's cool because we're seeingher get better at it each race
because, like you said, a fifthat broken arrow and then third,
you could argue.
Spigo wasn't as deep, but shewent under a very stout previous
course record and just happenedto be third because the other
two females also knocked out ofthe park.
So, yeah, I think she's gettingbetter with every race and I'm

(21:13):
excited to see how she doesshort trail for sure for sure.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Um, dude, what.
I think there's a lot ofexperience here too.
I think I counted not includingu20 or junior teams.
We've got seven athletesbetween the three distances that
are represented on team usa.
So you're looking at um.
You know.
Sinclair, noah, max all haveexperience, grayson, joe there's
quite a few um, but it'sinteresting to me as well as

(21:38):
well, for, like new people, likeanna gibson.
This is her first go at worlds,which is kind of crazy, and I
don't think we really know howgood anna is yet.
I don't think anna really knowshow good she is yet.
It's going to be reallyinteresting when she figures it
out.
Like.
That is one person to me that Ithink like has potential, not
just for a medal, but to likeactually like win a couple of
these races, like or maybemultiple medals, which is kind

(22:00):
of crazy.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Um yeah, I think she's our best shot for short
and uphill I.
I think I have her at the topof my list for the us and she is
really talented.
I think I first saw her in therut in 2022.
I think she did the 10k andpotentially the vk as well and
won both um and she's just likeinsanely talented.
I knew that.
You know like I didn't reallyknow dean if it was in 2022, but
I knew that if somebody rockedup to a race in a dina fit

(22:22):
outfit, they were like probablypretty speedy, because I was
like cam smith her and then, Ithink, also did speak out that
year and it was like adam loomisand some other guys and it was
like all right, whatever thisbrand is like these people mean,
like they mean some seriousstuff in the mountain racing
world.
Um, and yeah, she's insanelytalented, insanely speedy and
she just seems really seasoned,like uh, she seems to be very
smart and like tactical runner.

(22:44):
Um doesn't make a lot of likekind of go out too hard mistakes
.
So I I think she's lookingreally good for both races.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
So yeah, no, I agree, I agree, it's crazy man like
she.
I mean, I think she appears tobe healthy now from all
indications, like everythingseems to be firing on all
cylinders, but she was likepretty I don't want to say
severely injured, but likeinjured pretty solidly before uh
series and all.
So it's uh with an ankle issue.
So it's kind of crazy to thinknow that, like, if we get her
back, uh kind of at full, youknow, like pretty much full gear

(23:14):
, full gas, like it's gonna be,you know it should be a great
race for her, I would hope.
Um, what do you think aboutchristian allen?
This is his first world likedude, I'm such a fan.
It's like he's an interestingcharacter.
Um, like he's a very bigpresence in the sport.
Like what do you think about asfar as what he represents, not
just for the sport, um, but hispotential?

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think uh that uh water is gonna have to test his
mullet, because I think it's anunfair competitive advantage,
because it gives him more lift,uh, when he's going uphill so I
think that's the first thing tokeep in mind.
Uh, I think he's definitely oneof the most talented runners
we've seen come to the sport.
Um, you know from hisbackground at uh, first weber
state, and then I think he juststarted doing really good there,
from my understanding, thenmoved kind of up to byu, which

(23:58):
was like one of the premiertrack and field uh programs.
Um, but yeah, I think that heis probably our.
You know, joe gray has theexperience, but he's possibly
our best uphiller.
But joe gray, having that extraexperience factor, kind of
makes it tough.
Um, I think he could reallyknock it out of the park.
But his racing this year hasbeen a little bit of a mixed bag
with um.

(24:19):
I think he's had some like backtightening up issues, uh, and
then he's also tried to stand atsome of the longer 50k's which
he's still figuring out.
We saw that in OCC last yearwhen he came out and just like
went from the gun.
So all to the wall and, uh, thatstrategy didn't pay off.
But for us spectators back homeit's really fun to see somebody
do that, um, and you know, justit's kind of like a learning

(24:39):
curve, um, but he's obviouslyvery, very good at this vertical
stuff, uh, and he reallyknocked it out of the park at
Broken Arrow.
So I think, as long as he'skind of got solved whatever was
tightening up in his back onsome of these races because he's
kind of been a little bit upand down this year I definitely
think he's probably ourstrongest uphill male.
If I had to guess out of thatlist For sure Especially with
you saying it being a morerunnable course too, if it was

(25:05):
something a little bit steeper,more hike oriented, I might lean
more towards Joe and Cam Smith,but if it's pretty runnable,
like that's his bread and butter, so runnable yeah.
Not for mortals, but for therest of the elites.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
So it's going to be interesting and this isn't me
just like home cooking with Joe,but like Joe brings it dude,
like he got fifth in 2023.
He was right behind Patrick,like he was like basically
basically right in the mix thewhole time.
I don't know like it's.
It's going to be veryinteresting.
I do think raw talent, wisechristian, is the best shot.
I, but I don't.
I think just with experiencetoo, like I wonder how joe mixes

(25:34):
into this, like, and I thinktyler is a great anchor and I
think cam's a very consistentone as well, I think I mean, I,
I can't say other than christian.
I think that, like, I thinkchristian's got the best shot of
an individual medal, but Ithink, from a team perspective,
this team has a good shot atgetting, I think, a second place
or a third.
In my opinion, from a teamperspective.

(25:57):
One more thing I wrote down isAlly Mack also in the race as
well, uphill world champion from2022 in Chiang Mai, and she's
going to be chasing her secondworld title as well.
So so many like let us storeconflicting storylines in here
with just athletes on theamerican side that are former
world champions that are goingto be in the mix for this race?
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Um, all right, so I got somemath questions for you.

(26:20):
It's gonna be an interestingone.
Um, I like math out of out ofthe three.
We'll do this for men and womenout of the three.
Can the three distances uphill,classic and then short course.
What team do you think men andwomen have the highest utmb
indexes?
Combined average wise, this isa good one oh, this is a good

(26:41):
question.
I didn't even think to look intothat one thing I will say joe
does not have a UTMB index andthat's something that's actually
kind of funny and I'll bring itup real later.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
So this is just for the uphill race we're talking
about.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
This is for uphill, classic and short trail.
Out of all three, which men andwhich female team do you think
of the teams combined has thehighest UTMB index?
That team, bnx.
Oh, that's tough.
Kenya doesn't really have muchof a short trail team.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
So that's gonna.
No, just I'm sorry, just for usjust for us, oh for the us.
Oh which?
Which one of those three on themen's side, one side, both you
could do either, are there, letme?
I feel like our men's shorttrail team has a pretty high UTB
index.
So that's my guess for themen's and then the women's.
I feel like probably theclassic would be my guess on the

(27:34):
woman's side.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
You got it.
You got both of them.
Wow, Nice work dude.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, I was just trying to think of, like, who
was on each team.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
So it took a little longer, but I was like I think
that's that at least like vibes,why that's what the vibes get
me I don't know.
Like um, but yeah, how close,yeah, it was a pretty spot on,
yeah, the average for our femaleclassic team.
For the americans the averageindex is 752.5 and for the short
trail it's 885.6.
It it's really interestingbecause I just based off my

(28:01):
picks and like just looking atthe other like comparing indices
, um, and looking at otherathletes, like in these
conflicting races, it's like I,the women's classic team makes
them like a lot of sense to me,but the men's short trail I
actually don't have like I thinkI have them getting.
I don't have an individualgetting a medal, I have more of
a team getting a medal.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
When I look at it compared to cause's short trail
is just so stacked this yearyeah, and I wonder if, uh, that
still would have been the sameanswer if you computed that
before some big ccc results from, like david sinclair and, uh,
eli hemming as well, and elihemming went to occ last year.
But, yeah, I could see.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah I agree, that sounds that sounds about right.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
It sounds right with the vibes, so it's all very
close though I mean.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
so the men's uphill, excluding Joe Gray, is an
8.54.76.
The men's mountain classic is8.72.25.
It's crazy thinking about themen's mountain classic team,
because the person with thelowest index is actually Mason
Copey, who I think has thechance outside Taylor Stack of
doing the best on that team.
It's just that Cirque Seriesraces don't get counted in utmb

(29:06):
indexes, which is bullshit in myopinion.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
But yeah, and I'm saying anything with joe gray,
like joe gray not having utmbindex, but like so weird I'm
sure his etra index is very,very high and obviously they're
kind of comparable.
They're not exactly the samebecause they don't.
I don't, I don't know how theyget into the formula but they
don't perfectly match up.
But it's like very joe gray nothaving utmb x is kind of stupid
.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
So it's so weird, it's so strange.
Um, all right, let's talk about.
Do you want to talk names andstorylines internationally?
I know you've got you prepared,uh, pretty deeply for a lot of
these, so, yeah, yeah um.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
So storylines that I have for the men's side of the
uphill um, I put ken, patrickkip and jano pull a MJ and go
for a three-peat, because he'sgoing for his third uphill gold
in a row.
I put does Kenya last time atWorlds in 2023,?

(29:55):
They clean swept both theuphill and the classic distance
on both the men's and thewomen's side.
So that's another question tooWill they kind of have a clean
sweep on the uphill and theclassic like they did last time?
And then another thing I saidwas can joe gray add yet another
medal to his already burstingout the seams metal cabinet?
And then, is our swiss rocketremy benet back to remy form?

(30:15):
So I was on the men's side andthen the women's side.
Most notable storylines um, Iput no returning champ andrea
meyer, who's kind of like a VKgoat the year that she won world
.
She won like every VK she did, Ithink, minus one, and they were
all super competitive with tonsof East Africans, tons of
really good European runners.
Um, and then other things.
We've got a lot of returningtop teners for the top 10 from

(30:37):
2023, phalaris, scout Laura andChristelle.
And then last two things I putis queen mod.
Math is back to mod.
Math is form and it can scoutad can continue a killer year
and her WMRA, and then also cananapodia on a podium, because I
do think she has a verylegitimate chance.
So that's kind of what I had.

(30:58):
And then I guess names.
Do we want to talk men or womenfirst?
What are you?

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Let's talk male names for the vertical.
What are the names that reallystood out to me?
There's quite a few.
I think the Canadians have alot of depth, which is kind of
surprising.
I think people sleep onAlexander Ricard.
He's one of the last people tobeat Joseph gray, other than
Christian Allen, in an uphillrace.
He did it in 2023.
On us to turf um at the sun ofpeace scramble to get like you

(31:31):
know.
I guess it was for um theselection race to go to worlds,
where Alex did it, and Alex hasbeen consistently like one of
the best uphilling men on theplanet, which is kind of crazy.
Um Remy LaRue is also anotherone to watch.
He's had a very I think he'sraced 25 times this season so

(31:52):
far.
Um, I know he's a little tiredbut also like things have come
around.
I know he kind of battled backfrom like a small foot injury.
Um, remy LaRue to me, to me andthis is I know other people
have their thoughts, but like tome, I think is a better
mountain classic athlete justbecause of what I've been able
to see him do on the mountainclassic between etc.
Races like cirque series, canon.
Obviously, etc is substantiallymore high octane than cirque

(32:13):
series canon, but he got a fifthplace finish at etc.
And I think that was enough,proving against the europeans
that remy is truly one of thebest mountain classic athletes
in the world.
Don't sleep on him.
In the vertical, though, Ithink he's an extremely good
uphill runner.
A couple other names that jumpout to me for the vertical men
obviously Jacob Adkin, finlayGrant, another great Britain

(32:35):
athlete.
Lucas Earl, whose name peoplemight recognize from the Broken
Arrow 23K, who's a Germanathlete, andrearea rosten, who
is an italian.
I believe he's also won thebroken arrow ascent before in
the past when it was formerlythe vk.
Obviously patrick kip and ginoum this would be his third
kenyan um, it is interesting tome and I got to get your

(32:58):
thoughts on this.
This is the first worlds and Igotta look to see if he's
actually lining up.
Obviously he's on the list.
Remy's kind of hit or miss, soI don't know, especially this
season kind of battling backfrom injury.
You said he seems fit orappears fit on a strava yeah,
he's been posting a lot oninstagram too.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
This is the first worlds we've ever seen remy in
yeah, that's my understanding aswell, and for somebody who has
such like vk stature I all goingback into like this being the
deepest world field I feel likesomebody like Remy coming to
this world, it's kind of givesit like added legitimacy of like
, hey, this is worlds is a bigdeal now in trail running, uh,
and not only do you know, someevents have been competitive

(33:35):
here and there, um, but I reallythink that kind of goes to show
like he's targeting it, takingit seriously, um, and he didn't
it taking it seriously, um andhe didn't.
He didn't get to race much ingolden trail series because he's
been injured and coming backfrom injury, but I think that
this is a good sign, uh, yeah.
And then, with regards to someof the other names you mentioned
, lucas earl is definitelysomebody that I think everybody
should keep on their radar.

(33:56):
Super young german guy.
He runs d1 collegiately.
I think he went from wingate tolike nc or some bigger program,
I don't remember who, but he isreally, really good.
Last year at the European TrailChamps he was second in the
Classic and third in the Uphill.
He won ETC last year, so that'sthe U-Team B 50K and then the

(34:18):
year before that he won YCC,which is the youth race for
U-Team B as well, and we alsosaw him go top five at broken
arrow.
Um, and we've seen him run uh alot of races with uh and stay
up there with the east africansof beauty, east african like the
kenny runners and stuff likethat.
Um, totally agree, I think.
Alexander ricard, not only didhe beat joe at the sunopee, I

(34:41):
think he also beat him, if I'mnot mistaken.
I was trying to look up theresult, um, but I think he beat
him at mount washington thisyear as well in the uphill so,
um, and kind of like, edged himout right at the end.
Uh, so definitely somebody.
I do agree he could be asleeper pick, um, like his
results don't look as good onpaper, but when you see him beat
somebody like joe gray,especially at an event that he's
won that many times, that'sreally impressive.

(35:02):
Um, yes, I think italians inthe vk andrea rosten is really
good.
Uh, there's a couple ofitalians like luca merle,
italian, uh, andrea rosten, andI think I had one other one
written down.
Um, but the italians race vks alot, they race wmra events a
lot, so they're reallyexperiencing this kind of thing
and I think as a team, I havethem getting a team medal, um,
because I think they will have,even if they don't necessarily

(35:23):
have a medalist.
I think they'll have a lot ofpeople in that like 5 through 15
range.
And then I'm trying to think ifthere's anyone else you would
uh drop.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I don't know if I'm getting that last name right.
He was fourth in the mountainclassic.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
In 2023 he's moving over to the vertical, so it
should be fun to follow and seekind of what he's able to do if
he's able to uh, um, you know,make moves as far as the
vertical goes, versus the, theuh up down or the mountain
classic, if you will yeah, sothe one thing we got to look out
for and this happened I stillremember when I made my fancy
free trail picks in 2023 and Imade all western picks, uh, and

(35:56):
basically, if I'm looking at theresults from the uphill, last
time, uh, one through five,everyone was kenya or uganda,
except for jo, so, and thenthere is a Kenya also.
Uh, phil mom was seven, so itwas Patrick Kip and Jano leave
it.
Kip Kip Kip, kip, kip, kip, kip, kip, kip, kip, kip Kip K for,

(36:20):
uh, I definitely think thatwe're going to see probably at
least two kenyans and at leastone or two ugandans.
For the ugandan guys, like yousaid, elliot churro is kind of
the experience pick because hegot fourth at worlds in 2023,
but a sleeper pick that peopleshould look out for is isaac
kibbet.
If I'm looking at the rightisaac kibbet on uh world
athletics.
He ran a one hour and 22nd halfmarathon in 2021, so that's

(36:44):
it's fit what score 34 pace thatwas 2021, so that was a couple
years ago.
But uh, last year he ran a 217,which is honestly kind of slow
for that time.
But he also ran a half in 10136 last year, so a little bit
slower.
Uh, I didn't see, I didn't havehis 10k results written down,
so, um, but yeah, I mean a halfmarathon time like the.
I do agree like 5k, 10k is alittle bit more applicable, but

(37:05):
I'm just like, if you're runningan hour half marathon, that's,
that's filthy so disgusting um.
So yeah, and then another one Ihad written down uh was samuel
simba churrop.
His middle name is simba.
That's pretty sick.
He's a 13, 29, 5k guy on theroads, 13, 46 on the track, and
then he had 2802, 10k um.
He's only 19 years old, but Idefinitely think he would be

(37:26):
somebody to watch as well.
It's kind of a mix because a lotof these guys will have the leg
speed um, but I think if whatyou're saying about the course,
where it's more quote-unquoterunnable um, like, the less hike
oriented it is, the more itkind of favors not only
christian allen's but also likethese guys coming from uh,
uganda, and I still think youknow Pat it's.
Patrick is, like you know, twogolds in a row and he really

(37:46):
hasn't lost an uphill race andlet's see reigning world champ
on uh, one of the best climbers,if not the best.
Uh, he's got back-to-back golds.
He just, I'm pretty sure, fromwhat I could tell, broke the
course record at Red Bull, whichis like an uphill and and so
that means he's really fit.
He ran even faster than when hewon his 2023 gold.
He hasn't raced as much in theW W MRA, so like the vertical

(38:08):
type races this year cause he Ithink he's focused on winning
golden trail a lot Um, but wejust haven't seen him lose an
uphill race and like a long time, so I think it's his race to
lose, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
So I would agree with that.
I think that's all right.
Let's move on to the women.
I think that's a good spot too.
A couple of the names that Ithrew out there that more
interested me more than anything.
There's a few Canadians thatkind of popped out that I was
kind of surprised with one beingEmika Clark and two being Jade
Bellsburg.
I think Jade, on the NorthAmerican scene, has had a lot of
success at races like theBroken Arrow Ascent and VK
things like that, whereas EmikaClark has traditionally been

(38:51):
more known as a more sky runningtype of athlete but has mixed
it up even in the golden trailseries.
This is the first vertical raceI've seen her in, so that, you
know, kind of makes me wonder,like that would be kind of cool.
Um, a couple other names thatstick out for me flores kasang,
second place in 2023.
Um laura hottentrott with thelast name, that's the best last
name I've actually ever heard onthe podcast um laura
hattentrott uh german athlete,was fourth in 2023 as well as
back in this race.
Uh, another one uh, who haslived stateside but is an

(39:13):
australian.
Um friend of the podcast islaura hamilton, who's had some
success uh worlds back in 2023as well in the vertical.
Um, that's all I had writtendown for the women any, any
women specifically for you thatstick out yeah, I got a couple
to add to the list.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Um, I and I think laura.
I think it's hot and rot, but Ilike hot and trot better so I
definitely.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I literally wrote trot t-r-o-t, so I wonder if I
didn't like auto-correct it.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think it's hot and rot but um, but yeah, I
definitely have everyone thatyou had mentioned and then other
ones to point out.
I I would say Maude Mathis ison right now, I think, for both
the short trail and the uphill.
So Maude from Switzerland,pretty much, yeah.
So she pretty much owned theGolden Trail World Series until
about two years ago and she'sbeen kind of on an injury cycle

(39:56):
the past two years.
But everything about her racingso far her third place at
series and all makes it looklike she's very much back.
She had some mediocre resultsin the Euro champs last year but
it was mainly, uh, she wasstill coming back from injury.
So, um, other ones scout AdkinI mentioned her a little bit
earlier.
She's a UK runner, yep, supergood, super good at these WMRA
type events.
And then a couple other namesto keep an eye out for

(40:19):
Christelle de wall, french vkspecialist, uh.
Susanna sapunki, a finnishrunner who does a lot of wmra,
one that I would reallyhighlight, I think.
Germans on both sides, so wehad luca early on the men's side
.
Nina engelhardt is somebody whowe want to look out for.
She was the euro vk champ, uh,for the women's race last year

(40:41):
and beat out a lot of people arein this field, uh, at least
from europe, and she has beatout a lot of the kenyans as well
.
Uh, and then two more names, orthree more names, I'd say ariya
liachi, swiss runner, top fiveat sierras and all, I think, two
years in a row.
And then nelly clement issomebody who I was not familiar
with until doing research forthis podcast, but everything I'm

(41:01):
seeing with her makes her looklike a really good pick for a vk
top 10.
And then marina bay.
We've seen her a couple timesat uh golden trail world series,
multiple top six, top sevensand these golden trail series
this year.
So that's kind of the rest ofthe names I was looking at.
Um, yeah, I think that let'stalk mod.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, let's talk mod.
Yeah, please.
I do want to ask you about modand the reason I say this is
like so I think of mod.
I actually and I think thesplits kind of prove this I
think mods a better descenderthan she is up pillar, so that
was kind of had my mequestioning, not questioning,
but more so I put more of aquestion marker around, like,
for instance, like mod in heryears that she's won, let's say,
pike's peak and set the recordshe owns the female marathon

(41:44):
record has been she's won thatrace on descent, not necessarily
the uphill.
So I'd be very curious to see,like, what she could do in a
potential uphill race like thisand where she kind of fits into
the mix, especially with umsomeone like scout atkin and
maybe you can provide some moreI I didn't follow as much wrma
results this year yeah, yeah,like, what do you have for Scott
Atkin?

(42:05):
Cause that's someone thatstands out to me that has
potential to win this race.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
For sure.
So, yeah, so, both on the modand the scout thing, uh, mod
actually I did dig, cause Ididn't recall this either, but
she actually got third in theuphill in worlds at Thailand,
which kind of the beginning ofher injury, um, but I do agree
she is.
I mean she's a world-classtrail runner, but she I

(42:29):
typically, I think I feel likewhen her and like udith, weeder,
yo-yo, typically udis takes theweed on descents and then mon
gets it back and I think becauseit's more runnable.
Once again, getting back tothat, I think if this is more of
a hiking oriented course thatfavor her more, it might be a
little bit lesser her the ballin her court with a little bit
more runnable.
Um, and I thought kind of thesame thing as you, but I was

(42:50):
like, oh, she got third inworlds at thailand, so obviously
she, yeah, she just doesn'ttend to race a lot of just
uphill, um, but she has somegood uphill results, uh, and she
often passes people on climbscout adkin wise, um, so yeah,
first in the wmra standings,points, wise, it's kind of a pay
to play.
So like, the more events you do, the more points you get.
But she has had reallyconsistently good results, um,

(43:13):
and I like wmra events,especially for these uphill and
classic distances, becausethat's where you're going to see
the deepest fields, becausethat's where you're going to see
east africans kenyans not somuch the ugandans but kenyans
are going to be running them andthere's going to be multiple
kenyans along with, like thebest italians and french people
and stuff like that.
Um.
So some of her results this year, so her kind of breakout on a
lot of people's radar, was asecond place at series and all

(43:35):
last year.
She also got second at the eurouphill championships, last year,
only to nina inglehardt, uh,and then so far this year she's
got a one at Giro de Mont uphill, which is an Italian one,
second at the French VK champs,and so throughout this podcast
you'll hear me say people gotsecond at French VK or like
French and Italian VK champs.
A lot of people go race themjust because they're competitive
.
It's no different than likeJade Bellsburg coming over here

(43:56):
and racing our races Cause it'sreally competitive for like the
qualifiers, um, but she gotsecond at the French VK champs,
which had Kenyans, that hadItalians, that had French people
, um, but basically it was justa really deep field, and then
she also got second at verticaland a Sago.
So I think she's a reallystrong pick for the top 10 and
probably even a top five, causeshe just was a really smart
racer and she races a lot ofthese VKs Um, so she's like very

(44:16):
sharp when it comes to them aswell.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
So when do you think she fits into this mix?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Uh, I think I like her best on up down more than
just up.
And I might be a little bitbiased, because she did race
2023 worlds and I think she waslike 17 to 25 somewhere in the.
I think she was in the 20somewhere.
Um, so I think she, I think ifthere's a descent in the race,
it really favors.
Uh, that's where her strongsuit comes in.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
So I don't think I have her as high on my list for
pure uphill racing, but I thinkthat she could do pretty good in
the classic.
Um, when you have a climate ofdescent in it, so interesting
and she's on the short trailteam this year, so she's not
going to be doing the classic,it's just the vertical.
And see, I, I think she's.
She's an interesting characterbecause she has so much range.
You know, like talk aboutsomeone that's really really
talented both and kind of onboth ends of the spectrum, and
she could erase, like every racein the us.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
And yeah, I mean, she was, uh, I think she was second
to eliza, more in for both theclassic and the uphill at the
canadian vk champs last year.
Eliza might be somebody towatch as well.
She's had some good results.
Uh, I think she just had a top10 at series and all but uh,
yeah, it is really impressivethat she can make every team in
both Canada and then she makesshe would have made the U S long

(45:26):
trail team if she wanted to.
So, um, she is a really, reallyimpressive athlete and I'm
excited to follow along.
She's got a good sub stack too.
She's a good writer, so yeahher sub stack is actually
awesome.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, all right, let's move on to.
Let's talk about the mountainclassic and we'll start with the
men.
Um, obviously, as I alreadymentioned, remy Leroux.
He's going to be doing themountain classic as well as the
vertical.
Remy stands out to me.
I think he's a farce, in myopinion, a far superior and has
really developed into a moresuperior mountain classic
athlete.
I guess I'm inside baseballfrom him on, like how he plans

(45:56):
to race the race and I'm justvery interested to see how this
plays out, because I think he'sgotten more, maybe a little bit
more, aggressive with some ofthese races as time has gone on
and he's I think he's 25 racesdeep into his season now and I
think that makes things a littlemore interesting.
Um, one of the things thatstands out to me big time for
him was a fifth place at ETC.
I think he had no idea howcompetitive that race was going
to be and got into it and waslike wow.
Um had a little bit of a hardertime in races like maybe series

(46:21):
and all um and like theplitzalpin glacier trail, so he
definitely seems to favor betterin more of the mountain classic
type of races.
Um had an injury at sunopee,which was why we didn't see as
much of a performance out of him, even though we still went top
10, but you're talking aboutsomeone that has the ability to
completely win a race like that.
Other names I'm looking out for,obviously, we talked about

(46:42):
lucas, earl um and cesar mastery.
Uh, he's the italian who wassecond place at etc this year.
Um.
Timothy cubette is also on thestart list, along with philomon,
who second place in 2023.
Um, maybe the odds are favoriteto win this race this year with
the with.
Uh, the champion.
Uh, not returning um.

(47:03):
And bogdan damian from romaniais also someone I had on the
list to keep an eye on, as wellas jacob abkin from great breton
.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, I think uh agree with all that.
I don't did you mention taylorsack well, I didn't talk about.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
I didn't talk about americans.
Yet okay to talk aboutamericans.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Uh, yeah, I guess the last international name I would
add, or maybe one or two others.
I'd probably put theodore kleinuh, top french runner at the
french classic champs, which hada lot of kenyans.
Um, he was the top french guyeven though he's only fifth, but
it was a really deep field, soa lot of these guys that are
racing here he raced, and thenonly other international.

(47:41):
Last two names, I'd say maybejan Torea, young Spaniard,
solomon runner, and XavierChevrier, italian runner, who
also took a top 10 spot in the2023 Classic.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
On the topic of Taylor Stack, what do you?

Speaker 2 (47:55):
think.
I think that he actually mightvery well be our best our
highest finisher for the Classic, be our best, our best, our
highest finisher for the classic.
I've been really, reallyimpressed with both of his races
at pete's alpine glacier, uh,where he was in second place for
a lot of it and really just gotoutkicked on a road like a flat
, runnable road section at theend, but he was right in the

(48:17):
middle of essentially a kenyansandwich, like there was two
kenyan runners on either side.
Um, so to be able to run upfront with, uh, some of these
really good like Milmani runnersand, uh, the other running
groups that come from Kenya, Iwas really, really impressed by
that.
And then I was also reallyimpressed, I mean, his Sears and
all debut 12th place, justoutside of the top 10, but
really ran a smart race.
It's hard to knock Sears andall out of the park right away,

(48:38):
um, and I thought that wasreally impressive.
I wasn't surprised that he wasour top American.
Um, I thought of Chris.
I know if Chris Allen has agood day he can also go top 10.
Um, but I think he kind of hadthe back issue or something that
pushed him back towards like20th.
But yeah, I've been really,really impressed with Taylor
stack and I think he is probablythe best bet.
I do agree, mason Copey looksreally really good this year.

(48:59):
Um, and they both looked reallygood at broken arrow.
I think they finished back toback in like sixth and seventh.
But I think that taylor, havingthe experience racing against
some of these east african guysin a type of race that's similar
to this, I think that reallyreally helps, because these guys
are going to be fast and it'sdefinitely a different type of
racing when, um, when, a lot ofthese kenyan guys have been
running wmra events, so they'rekind of really familiar with,

(49:20):
like, what this format is goingto be like, um, and I think that
, because taylor stack did sowell at, uh, pizza alpine
glacier and has raised some ofthese guys, it'll be good.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
So I think taylor's definitely having a year.
What do you think about andthis is out of pure curiosity um
, what do you think about davidnorris, like?
What do you think he ends up inthe mix?

Speaker 2 (49:37):
yeah, that's a good question.
I'm not gonna lie, I was really, really surprised when he won
centipede, not because I don'tthink he's an amazing athlete,
but just because I was like Idon't know.
I know he's got Mount Marathonfigured out and his times in
Mount Marathon are insane.
Um, I ran Mount Marathon notthe race, but I just ran the
mountain, like last year when Iwent to Alaska, and just like
trying to fathom the times thathe puts down on that, of course,

(49:59):
are insane.
I, what I was really insurprise with surprised with
Davis, is that, or with DavidNorris is that he didn't.
I was surprised that in Sunapeehe took the lead on the second
climb coming out.
Yeah, like I figured if he wasgoing to win he was going to be
in the front, but I just didn'tsee him being as fast as, like
you know, mason Copey and TaylorStack are both super speedy
guys and then Cam's really anamazing climber.

(50:20):
I was really, really impressed,honestly, and I mean mean, I
guess we had seen glipsons of it, because she, he did, uh,
what'd he do?
He did like second or third atcirc series, I think, between
like patrick and philemon.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
So ah, yeah, that's the race I was gonna bring up.
We'll get into that, okay, okayyeah.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
So like I was actually really surprised and
I'm really curious, I think hecould totally burst my bubble
and prove me totally wrong andhe could be the top uh finishing
american.
Um, yeah, it was cool to seehim figure out OCC.
He hadn't really figured out Idon't know if his nutrition or
pacing in longer ultras hehadn't really hit his potential
in his VDK, but it was cool tosee him go top 10 at OCC this
year.
I think he finally kind of isdialing it in on the ultra

(50:56):
distances but yeah, he very wellcould be the top finishing
American male.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's interesting, so it's funny man like it's.
I think a lot of people aregoing to look at philomon and
think he give being the seriesand all champion are going to be
thinking like, okay, this isgoing to be the odds on guy to
beat this race.
Dude, I was in cirque seriesbrighton last year and I
first-handedly watched him beatphilomon and, like philomon has,
I have watched philomonstruggle in certain races and be
hit or miss.
I just don't know, like I knowseries and all is an, a race

(51:25):
you're going to peak for rightis worlds also.
You know, can you, can you tryand peak for that?
I don't know.
So I do throw a lot of questionmarks in there.
I do think philomon'sdefinitely going to be in the
top top five, easily probablythe top three, but I I don't
know.
I don't think he's asunbeatable as someone like a
patrick, maybe on the ascentright I would agree.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I think that we've we're seeing.
Last year philemon was likeperennially the bridesmaid.
He had so many second placesand I don't think he won.
I think if you look at his wmra, I don't think he won a single
race and I think he had like 10second places and these are all
super deep, whether it'ssierra's and all or whether it
was whatever.
And I kind of think this yearwe're seeing a little bit of
different film on where hefinally got a win early on in

(52:06):
the season.
I don't remember what his firstgolden trail win was, but he's
kind of carried that on uh withthe sierra's and all win.
And I kind of think we'reseeing like more of a little bit
more dialed film on.
I think last year his confidencewas a little bit shook because
he was getting so close to winstwo seconds at sierra's and all
you know what.
Two seconds at headlands orwhatever, like he was always
like one second off of a win anduh.

(52:26):
This year I feel like it's alittle bit different.
So I do agree, definitely inthe podium makes probably a
favorite, like you said, silvermedalist coming out of 2023
worlds, and I think that he'snot a pure uphill guy.
If you look at his wmra stuff,he doesn't do as well in the
uphill, but where he reallyshines is his up down stuff.
So I think this is kind of hisrace to lose, but there are a
lot of guys that are going tochallenge him.
There's a lot of good kenyansin this race too.

(52:48):
I think that they're going tobe.
Uh, I think it's gonna bereally tough to beat kenya for
the team gold in this event.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
So it's gonna be interesting, like I definitely I
think america.
I do think america is going toshow up, like I think we've
always been in previousiterations in previous times,
like I think these and just eventalking to the athletes man,
like so many of our americancontingent is just are just
really eager to prove that, likeamerican trail running is not
to be slept on.

(53:13):
So that gets me hyped, alsoputs little chills on my like,
makes my hair stand up a littlebit, gets me all excited.
So I don't know.
We're gonna, we're gonna findout.
Let's talk about the women inthe mountain classic.
Okay, um.
So some names that stick out tome Julia Font, from Spain I
think Spain just got a forcedude between the short trail and
the Mountain Classic.
It's going to be fun to follow.
Dalia Alonso as well, fromSpain, as well as Julia Lalonde,

(53:37):
france she was fourth at ETC.
Marie Nivet, another one,seventh at ETC.
She was French.
Joyce Mutani, obviously aKenyan.
Scott Outkin, from GreatBritain, is going to be in this
race.
Alice Gaggy.
Laura Hamilton, as well asanother one from Australia and,
I told you, julia Font as well,and I got one more fourth place

(53:59):
from 2023.
Valentin Rudo, as well, fromKenya, so the Kenyans are also
very well represented in thewomen's mountain classic.
This is going to be, I think,the best squad we're bringing is
going to be the USA contingentof the women's mountain classic.
But this is not going to be aneasy race to win.
This is but to get golden.
It's going to be very difficult.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
No, I think Kenya is going to be really good.
Joyce is where they.
That's the same Joyce that winsa lot of golden trail series.
Sometimes they put her asMuthoni, Sometimes they put hers
in Najayru.
I'm not sure if that's how it'spronounced, but yeah that's
kind of like interchangeable.
Um, yeah, also glory to bet, whoI think was she was not in the
top 10.
Um, but uh, also another reallygood kenyan runner.

(54:41):
And then, yeah, a lot of thepeople doubling back from the vk
.
So eliza moran on the canadianside.
Who else did we say?
Uh, susanna sapunki again, andthen nelly clement, the french
one, who I think is definitelysomebody to look out for, and I
think that's about the onlyother name I'd add.
Uh, internationally is uh,martino malarn malarn chick.
Yep, uh, who just, you know,won uh ccc um, but really really

(55:05):
has a lot of like speed.
I I didn't see a lot of resultsfor her on vk stuff, but I'm
really curious to see how shekind of mixes it up coming off
of a win at ccc um.
So that'll be kind of excitingto see as well.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
So it's interesting.
We've seen a lot of theseathletes brace at utmb weekend
and there's a especially more sofor your Eli's, your David
Sinclair's, your CCC athletes um, that mixed it up and then go
to some of these longerdistances, maybe like a short
trail or something like what isthat recovery like?

(55:37):
Like I, it's got to be reallydifficult to bring it around and
feel 100% you know.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
I don't know.
No, I totally agree.
When we get to the short trailpreview, I will definitely be
harping on that and I think that, uh, we, you know, probably
have two of the best, if notlike the two best 50k trail
runners in the world, uh, withdavid and eli, but I gotta think
that, like, ccc is gonna notmake one of them as sharp and
that, even though we probably dohave the two best, we either

(56:04):
might not get the medal or, um,one of those two is not going to
score points which would belike the top three finishers for
us.
So, yeah, I definitely have myreservations, but I am excited
to see, and I mean, you know, aclassic race should hopefully
only be like an hour, hour and ahalf.
So maybe she's even smarterthan David and Eli because she's
only going to be out here for,you know, an hour and change if

(56:25):
that.
So it's true.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
All right, let's talk .
Let's get into short trail.
I'll let you take it away.
Um, I do find it reallyinteresting, though One point
I'll make before as we get intoit, for the men, like the entire
men's podium is back in thisrace this year between Stian
Thomas Roach and Luca Del Perro,all returning from 2023.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yes, that is very exciting.
This is the only one I don'thave the results from 2023, but
you're totally right.
Uh, results from 2023, butyou're totally right.
Uh, the big storylines Ihighlighted, uh, on the man, I
was like holy crap, there's toomany to talk about.
There's 211 uh dudes on fantasyfree trail that are registered
for the short trail, butstorylines, uh, stacked field
with all the usual suspects whotend to crush at both occ and

(57:04):
golden trail series.
So I think the short trail iskind of a cool mix up where
we're going to see the guys whoare really good at utmb 50ks,
really good at golden trailseries, and then even the third
category we talked about a skyrunning world series which a lot
of times the U S audiencesdon't know as well, cause we
don't have the U S sky runnerrace anymore, um, but I think a
course like confrank is reallygoing to favor guys that are
really good at sky running.

(57:25):
So I'm going to talk a lotabout sky running results.
Um, one thing you already kindof touched on uh, one of the big
questions marks I have is doesCCC hurt USA's chance of
meddling in both the team andthe individual results?
And I think the answer for meis yes.
And then I think that on thewomen's side I put does Francis
no racing U?
Team B policy results andanother team and individual gold

(57:46):
, cause last time they won theteam event as well, uh, and they
won the the short, uh woman'sindividual gold, um.
And then I put spain's teamsdeeper than the mariana trench
on the women's side, so I'mreally impressed with them uh, I
put switzerland maybe neutral,but the team they're uh sending
means war.
And then I put does us have thedepth they can beat with france,

(58:07):
spain and switzerland?
Uh, especially without jenlecter and then ken grayson,
medal in another world mountaintrail classic discipline.
So dude.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
The swiss team for the short trail and the women is
like therese laboe mod mathisjude.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
We use the wider like it's deep dude I mean it's
spain as well, like it's, it'syeah, um, and they meddled last
time too, they were.
Let me before I quote they were.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
They had the silver for, uh, team competition for
the short trail that makes sensein france so yeah, all right,
let me get into some namesreally quick and then we'll kind
of because I do want to, Ireally want to get into the
discussion on uh, like manuelantonio martinez and others like
that, just some names that Ihave off the top of my head um,
shout out to boulder right.

(58:51):
Uh, north face athlete, johnnyluna lima, who's going to be
competing on behalf of brazil.
Um, sam hendry, a canadian,who's going to be in this race.
Dude, it was so funny.
I don't know if you watched thelive coverage for occ, but
they're like they didn't reallyknow who sam hendry was and I
was like, oh, y'all must haveforgot.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Like um, yeah, they were sleeping on canada.
I was thinking the same thing.
He's really impressive.
I saw him race speed goat lastyear and I actually got to
spectate.
I was on the course and I wastalking to, uh, just a group of
people are on the course andthey're like, oh, yeah, we're
expecting our son.
I was like, oh, where you guysfrom?
They're like, oh, we're from,we're from canada.
I think he's from canmore, ifI'm not mistaken.
They're like, yeah, our sonshould be here.

(59:29):
And then, after like talking tothem for about 10 minutes, I
was like, wait, is your son, samhendry?
And they're like, yeah, that'sour son.
And I was like, yeah, yourson's a badass, like he's
probably gonna be here in notime.
So, yeah, he got second.
Uh, speak out.
That year that was the, the year, the nordic skiers, where david
sinclair set course record.
Sam got second.
And then scott patterson, who'suh, alaskic, yeah, shredder,

(59:49):
who had won every race in Alaska.
Um, and I didn't know about himuntil I went up to Alaska, but
then I saw his name on everysegment in Alaska and uh, yeah,
he crushed uh, spigo.
But yeah, he, it was funny,cause he does.
He is really, really good atclimbing and he also has lots of
good leg speed, being a skierfrom university or skiing at
university of.
Utah, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Yeah, interesting.
He's in medical school now too,which is interesting as well,
so I like to see him mixing itup and doing both.
I know for a year there he wason the solomon international
team and I guess trying tobalance that you know, being an
athlete at the highest level aswell as medical school is
probably not the easiest thingin the world to do, so it's not
a good balance, yeah I think hewanted to go in the states, but
it just worked out better incanada and I think he he might
still be in canmore, which, fromwhatever it says, canmore is

(01:00:30):
like it's outdoor heaven outthere, so it's amazing.
Yeah, did you got to?
Uh, I don't know if you've everput it on your radar, but meet
the minotaur.
Yeah, it's definitely sick race.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's hard to get to in my mind.
I'm making excuses now, butyeah, I would love to do.
Meet the minotaur definitely islike it looks really sick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
So yeah, um, it's a couple other names that stick
out to me Josh Potvin, canadian,um, probably most, he had some.
Uh, he had some good finishesthis year, both at speed goat as
well, as he was the champion ofthe Gorge waterfall 50 K um
beating out Liam Miro, who isone of the, you know, extremely
well-known sub ultra athlete inthe space.
Um, alexander Ricard, what doyou think about Alex in a short

(01:01:08):
trail type of race, Like I'vealways known alex, as I think
the audience does, for beingjust like one of the best
uphills uphillers pretty much onthe planet.
I've never seen him do likesuper long stuff like this, so
it's interesting to see him inthe short trail kind of mix it
up yeah, I'm not sure what tothink.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
I don't see like none of his result.
His uphill results are reallyimpressive and I haven't seen a
ton enough of his like shorttrail results.
I think he had some stuff incanada, but I haven't seen a ton
on.
And this is like euro biased,kind of the same way that I
don't know.
If we see us people do good atus races, we expect them to do
good in euro races.
Um, so I'm excited to see himrace against, uh, some of these

(01:01:48):
european guys, because there'sso much talent when it comes to
the short trail, uh.
But yeah, who else?
Who else were you thinking to,or who else?
Do you have any list?

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
antonio martinez, who's been just a perennial
contender both on the skyrunnerseries as well as um occ, year
after year.
I think this year was his.
I think he was still top 10 atocc but his worst finish uh he's
had in a while and he's I knowhe's been training with, like
ben demon, uh a6 perennialcontender.
In my opinion, like I think,antonio has uh kind of all the

(01:02:17):
tools to do really well at arace like this.
Yep, uh being on the spain team.
Another name that sticks out tome one of the best downhillers
on the planet, manuel morales.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I'll let you take it away on him, but yeah, he sticks
out to me big time yeah, manumaru Marias, I think, is really
well known from the Europeanaudiences, but the U S audiences
don't know him as well.
He's a Spanish guy.
He runs for new balance now,but he was a long time Scarpa
athlete and he just is like oneof my favorite people to watch.
Uh, go follow him on InstagramIf you don't already.
It should just be Manu M A N Uand then Marias M E R Il-a-s.

(01:02:48):
But he is one of the besttechnical runners and definitely
one of the most technicaldescenders.
He's a previous winner ofzagama.
He also has, I want to say,seven top tens there and I think
most of those are top fives,with the exception of like one.
So he's perennially one of thebest runners at zagama.
Um, I think he has a pretty bighome field advantage too.
He lives in not canfrankversion of the pyrenees, but he

(01:03:09):
does live in the pyrenees, uh,and I think he was a mountain
guide out there for a long time.
So I gotta believe that he hassome of the best course
familiarity um long before thisrace ever came around and then
probably has been prepping a lot.
Um, he hasn't raced as muchthis year compared to pat
previous years.
Um, after he was coming off aninjury from a pico de europa
race which he's won five, six,seven editions of um.

(01:03:31):
But he does have a couple topfives at sky runner world series
races and most recently he didjust go second at ultra k's,
which is a very, very technical,like we talked about earlier
and like I mentioned earlier,him on the descent is like it's
poetry in motion, it's reallyreally pretty.
So, um, and I think he wasunder the previous course record
, but I think I forget it waswilliam buffelli, but somebody
beat him um, but they were bothunder the previous course record

(01:03:52):
.
Yeah, I think the spaniards anditalians you really have to
watch out for if anyone isspanish or italian and if
they're sponsored by scarpa,they're probably somebody to
look out for, because there'slike a ton of italians, guy
runners or scarpa, uh, or warscarpa.
And I totally agree.
Antonio martinez perez, um adisappointing quote-unquote
eighth place finish at occ, butreally that's only because he

(01:04:13):
had three years in a row of topthree finishes and honestly the
course change didn't favor himthis year.
Um, he would have made a lot ofmoves on the last descent and
then there wasn't a last descent, it was kind of just one big
climb, one to make descent, uh,and then a lot of road running
at the end.
So it wasn't really his type,of course, uh, with the change
that they they did last minute,um, cause he would have gobbled
up a lot of people on the lastdescent.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Um like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
even Jim, you know, said that if, if there was the
traditional course, he was like,uh, christian would have, would
have gobbled me up on thedescent if we didn't have that
road part at the end.
So he really kinda I mean, yougotta race the course too, but
it's like it was a last minutechange, so yeah, Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Um, all right, so a couple other names that stuck
out to me, some French athletes.
Fred trenchard, who's kind of ahousehold name both on the sky
runner series and, previously,the golden trail series.
Uh, thomas Carden, anotherFrench athlete.
Uh, christian Jones, who aswell was one of, I'd say, more
of a favorited athlete.
Uh, going into OCC.
Very good technical runner.
What do you think aboutChristian?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Yeah, christian is definitely somebody I've
highlighted and I think he'scontinually gotten better, year
after year.
Um, I heard something on apodcast or something the other
day.
He's made the okay, so my notes.
Uh, I think he's qualified fortheir cross-country worlds team
for great britain also a greatbidding great britain
orienteering team.
I think he's got a coupleorienteering world world medals.

(01:05:30):
Uh, he's run a 103 halfmarathon of the half marathon
world champs uh 13, 45, 5k andhe's got a 10k in the low uh 28s
but more impressively, uh, forthis course.
Um, we saw him go fifth at occbut he was up there as high as
second and just everyone waskind of going balls to wall at
the end and he um got mixed upuh and ended up on the back half

(01:05:51):
of that.
And then he had a really,really solid win at ultra trail,
snowdonia 50k, which everyonesays is like insanely.
It's that weird kind of uktechnicality where it's like
this tussy tussocky like grassy,like stuff yeah, it's like fell
running.
um, that's really hard toprepare for and I think, like
when I raced in the pyreneeslast year, there was a lot of
weird like very steep, not rocky, but like steep, uh grassy,

(01:06:15):
kind of like nolly 12 to 1400foot, like uh climb per, uh
ascent per mile climbs, and so Ithink that he might have uh a
pretty good job here, um, andthen, yeah, other stuff.
I'm pretty sure he's from wales, so I think that that suits a
technical course, um, but healso has that nice mix of like
crazy, like speed as well, andhe also is a returning.
And then, yeah, other stuff.
I'm pretty sure he's from Wales, so I think that that suits a
technical course, but he alsohas that nice mix of like crazy,
like speed as well, and he alsois a returning top 10 from 2023

(01:06:38):
.
He was ninth in the world shorttrail and he's only gotten
better since then, so I thinkthat he could go top 10.
He's also a good follow onInstagram.
He's really transparent withhis training.
He might even have a sub stacktoo, but his either way, his
training that he recaps oninstagram.
He shows you like everything hedoes, all his workouts,
everything, and I think that'scool from a transparency
perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
so dude, amazing, amazing, all right, so, dude,
there's so many names on thismensels luca del perro, from
italy.
Davide magnini, who is the 2025uh marathon du mont blanc
champion, was really lookingforward to seeing him at occ,
but he pulled out due to aninjury.
I would I don't know if he'shealthy and back I would expect
to see him on the start line foritaly.
I did not see him pulled yet,so I have some insight.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, so davide is like probably, if I'm most
excited about manu, davide isprobably like pretty, a pretty
close second place.
He's kind of like on that modtrain where he was really
dominant the golden trail worldseries.
He's got multiple marathon demont blanc wins, including this
year, um, but really in likethat 20, the early kind of
forming of the golden trailseries 2019, 2021 and even into
2022.

(01:07:38):
He was one of those names upthere with remy who was like
always finishing top, top, top,super speedy italian guy.
Uh, he was.
He's a new balance guy now butI think he was a solomon runner
back then.
Yep, um and uh.
But anyways, I was really,really excited to see his return
to form because we've seen himwin giro de mont this year and
marathon de mont blanc, whichwas still a very deep field,
even though it wasn't goldentrail because it had a lot of

(01:07:58):
prize money.
Um, he didn't do cc or occ andI was concerned because his his
strava kind of went dark, but hedid just race a vk about a week
ago, um, so that makes me thinkhe's more so hiding more of his
training, cause I don't thinkhe's not done any running in the
past two weeks and then justpopped off on a VK with like a

(01:08:18):
five oh five gap or whatever.
So, um, I do think it is stilla little bit up in the air if he
starts.
But if he starts, yeah, he'sdefinitely somebody to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Um, just is a really, really talented guy.
So, yeah, other names.
I had daniel pattis, anotheritalian.
Do the italians are so deep inthis?
Uh, timothy cabette, kenyon, um2023 world champion stian
ungerman is back in this race.
Um, how has had some success,but a little bit of a bumpy ride
as far as races like series andall goes.
What do you think as far asstian being back in the mix?

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I think he's getting better with every race and
there's a lot of rust to bustoff.
I think it was prettyimpressive.
He went ninth at zagama thisyear in a pretty deep field.
Um, I agree that sears and allwasn't his best showing, but I
also don't think that's a coursethat really suits him.
In the same way, I don't reallythink it suits somebody like uh
elizine elizawi, like I thinkthat something like this suits
stian a lot more.
I definitely think he has astrong shot at top 10.

(01:09:10):
He's got tons of worldexperience.
He would be he would be inpatrick's situation if not for
the doping, um, for the dopingnegative test.
But basically, you know, he isessentially the defending champ
of the last two short trails, um, and so I don't think we're
going to see that sharp of asion where it's.
I don't I'm not expecting himto go gold or really even medal
at this point, but I dodefinitely think that he will.

(01:09:32):
I think he has a strong chanceto top 10.
Yeah, and I agree with allthose names.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
Also Roberto De Lorenzi as well, and Rui Ueda.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Yep, yeah, roberto, I'm a big Roberto fan, the same
way you're talking about RemyLeroux racing 25 times.
This year, I think Roberto raced30-something it was like every
weekend and I mean obviouslythey weren't all ultras, some of
them were short, some of themare long, but it's really
impressive how he kind of likeuses races to get fit.
And I mean he talked about Ithink he interviewed with
Francesco Pubbi and he talkedabout like how his really two

(01:10:06):
circled races were Sierras andall and were Marathon, marathon
de mont blanc, and those werehis two best results fifth at
sierra zanol and third atmarathon de mont blanc and that
was on top of.
He won the sky running worldseries last year and won
multiple sky running worldseries events and he also won
the or, excuse me, he was top 10and golden trail series and had
a ton of top five, top five,top tens.
They're super consistent.
The only thing about de lorenzihe hasn't had the same year

(01:10:28):
this year.
He hasn't been on that kind ofform.
Last year it was like if I wasmaking fantasy free trail, I was
always going to put him in mytop 10 for any race he did
because he was that consistent.
We haven't really seen the sameroberto this year, which is a
bummer.
I hope he kind of gets throughsome redemption here and kind of
comes back, but we haven'tquite seen the same level of
roberto.
In my mind, roberto last yearis luca del pera.
This year Luca Del Perro hasbeen super consistent.

(01:10:49):
He's been getting more and morefit.
He's had top fives at Zagama,he's had wins at Skyrunning
World Series races and he isreally really good at this type
of technical stuff.
And two other, I was gonna sayor three other names
international Sylvain Cachard,french runner for Hoka, multiple
top tens at Sierras and all.

(01:11:10):
And he was third at ultra trailsnow down here behind Christian
Jones.
So he's got some good finesseon the technical stuff.
One that kind of came across myradar was Skyring world series
and then eventually Sierras andall.
Martine Nielsen, the Swedishrunner for VJ.
He went six at Sierras and all,which was really impressive.
He's had a couple of wins atsome technical sky running stuff
.
Wins at, uh, some technical skyrunning stuff uh, taster sky

(01:11:33):
marathon.
And hope konig he didn't do hisgood at ultra k, so maybe this
is, but that's kind of adifferent level of technicality,
so tough to say.
And then the last two guys I'dsay look out for thomas roach,
uh, uk runner who lives inaustria, super good at technical
stuff.
He was second in worlds in 2023.
He's one of those guys kind oflike max, where I think he's
actually in the 45 to 49category but he still races
really, really smart and hehelped uk take the team gold uh

(01:11:53):
that year with uh john albin andchris jones and then last one,
andre valenz, uh spanishteammate of antonio perez, also
his training partner, winner ofsierra's and all in 2023 and
then second at sagama this year,um, and he went top 10 at
worlds, but in the classic racein 2023.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
So the depth, depth, dude, this is such a deep race
it's, it's stupid, like um, yeah, I don't know.
This is one of the ones thatare like it's just impossible to
predict, like it's so hard tokind of figure it out.
And it's weird too, because we,from the American perspective,
do have two of the best runnerson the planet in this race.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
And it's hard to figure out, okay, like how is
that going to match up and howis that going to stack up when
it comes to ccc?
Still in the legs?
You know, yeah, definitely.
And it's it kind of feel it'sinteresting because eli people
have known about worldwidebecause he's race golden trail
series and last year he won occ.
So I don't think he's anystranger to the european crowd.
But I kind of feel like davidsinclair was like our little,
you know, like best kiss keptsecret, where, like if you did
the races that he did, like the,the first year I really kind of
got into trail running.
I raced speed goat and, uh, runthe rut, both speed goat, he

(01:12:58):
won and then run the rut, he setthe course record broke,
killing jordaine's record, uh,and then we've seen him do the
same thing I broke an arrow.
Some of those records have beenbroke.
He still has the speed goat one.
But basically it's like he'swon every mountainous 50k and he
almost went to OCC, I want tosay in 2023, and I don't
remember if he was injured or Ithink he's nursing injury, but
it's like he's kind of like ourbest kept secret and so it's so

(01:13:19):
exciting for him to go to CCC.
It was so exciting for him togo knock it out of the park on
his first try and it feels likehe would even do better at like.
I feel like he would do just asgood, if not better, occ maybe
not this year's edition of it,but like the previous years and
so, um, yeah, I totally agreethat Eli and David on any given
day could both take a gold, butI really think that one of them
will probably be affected byhaving CCC in their legs and I

(01:13:41):
think I would lean towards thatbeing Eli.
But it's tough to say becauseit sounds like he's been talking
about how he's had some likethermal regulation issues
because he kind of likeovercooked himself at OCC last
year because he got so hot.
Um, so the other thing Inoticed was if the race was hot,
that I'd be a little bitconcerned, but based off the
forecast we looked at, doesn'tlook too bad.
Um, but he has talked about howhe's had a hard time regulating

(01:14:01):
temperatures since winning OCClast year because he just like
absolutely cooked himself.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
That's nuts, if that's all right.
So that reminds me it's acompletely different situation.
But have you seen this issuethat germans had with, uh like
not being able to use his legs,and it's like more of a
neurological thing?

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
yeah, yeah, and it's like very specifically, like
right as soon as like he'll begood for up to six hours of
activity and then as soon as hegets like six hours.
I haven't seen the most recentstuff other than like katie
talking about being concernedabout it in some of his posts
and he's always joking.
It's funny, like well, luckilyhe can.
He speaks english pretty wellso he can make the jokes in
english, but it's always funny.
When you like, translate frenchjokes and you know an instagram

(01:14:37):
and you're like that's truemaybe we don't have the same
humor, you know, or somethinglike that, but, um, yeah, it
seems like he's definitelykeeping a good like head on his
shoulders.
But yeah, it's concerning.
I mean, you know, even ifyou're not even a, you know,
elite athlete, even if you'rejust, you know, like me and
you're like running in themountains, it's like I'd suck
pretty bad if you could takeaway like your one not your one
coping skill, but one of yourbiggest coping skills for
getting through anything.

(01:14:57):
So, yeah, I hope, I hope theyget that solved and I hope he
gets more answers, because rightnow it sounds like there's
still a lot of question marksaround like what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
so crazy it's.
So you get these weird likethings.
Man like eli, not being able tolike thermoregulate, like what
the hell is that?
Like what did you cook in yourbody?
That like let has led to this.
It's kind of kind of nuts whenyou you push a lever too far and
it's like you don't really knowthat you did that, and then you
find out, it's like when you goover you know the spectrum,
which is kind of nuts.
So, yeah, wild stuff.

(01:15:25):
All right, let's talk, let'sget to women on the short trail,
and then we gotta get to picksfor sure all right, let's.
There's so many names on thewomen short trail team, I'm just
gonna throw out a few, and thenyou throw out what you got.
I've got, first and foremost,the easiest ones sarah alonso,
repping spain.
Malin osa, who's also on thespanish team.
Marta martinez is also on thespanish team.
Clementine joffrey, frenchathlete, 2023 champion at worlds

(01:15:48):
.
Lucilleille Germain, frenchathlete.
Naomi Lang, from Great Britain,is going to be here as well.
Daniela Omas from Germany, whowas in the top 10 in 2023 as
well.
Caitlin Felder from New Zealand, and then the Swiss team
Therese Lebeau, maude Mathies,judith Weider, and then we also
can't leave out ToveAlexanderson as well, who was

(01:16:10):
second place at the MountainClassic in 2023, who's also in
this race.
So the international depthbetween the men and women in
this is nuts it is nuts too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Yeah, there's a ton and I'm really excited.
Last two international, I'd sayikram marsala too, also spanish
crusher, and then adelinemartin as well.
Uh, she's on the french team alot.
Yeah, this team is nuts goingon the Tove ticket.
I've kind of forgot a littlebit about her.
If you watch the early goldentrail episodes, especially the
one in 2020, when they basicallyjust like created a bubble for

(01:16:41):
COVID on uh on the Azores andthe the stage race kind of
concept with four of them, sheappears a lot in that
documentary version.
Um, and she's like gutsy dude,like she like races, like all
out and just like throws herselflike she had some good results.
I think she had a win in asecond place, uh, in the four
days, but she just basicallyraced every day like it was her
last.
Um.
I was looking at her instagrambecause you, even though she has

(01:17:04):
such a high utmb index, I was alittle bit surprised at how
high it was.
I was like, well, she hasn'traced in two years, like what's
been going on with that?
And so I went and looked at herinstagram, uh, and from her
instagram, 21 time worldchampion orienteering uh, she,
let's see.
So you got second.
Yeah, we said talk about secondthe world's classic race in 2023
, uh, and she's really good attechnical races and in her past

(01:17:26):
she's won limon sky race and skyracing matheson, uh.
But the other thing too is that, uh, last year in schemo she,
from my understanding, placedgold in the individual schemo
championships and silver in thevertical.
So I gotta think she's likegotta be one of the most like
fit people in this race overallwhen it comes to like aerobic
abilities.
Um, the only thing I'm hesitantis like this is a pretty long

(01:17:47):
race for somebody to not haveraced, to have like a race
result on itra or utb or wmrafor the last two years.
But I gotta think she's likeone of the most fit people on
the line, so I'm really excitedto see her race.
I think she could surprise a lotof people.
But, uh, I almost would rathersee her in like the classic
again or the uphill, because youknow that there's there's
nothing really you have to worryabout as somebody who just has

(01:18:07):
like a huge aerobic engine buthasn't been running a lot.
But yeah, it seems like she'sstill been doing a ton of
orienteering this year, had aton of good results.
She's like a really gutsyperson, so I bet she'll be out
there with a lead pack and Ithink, uh, maybe she kind of
like zach miller either she goesbig or, uh, she doesn't make it
through the race, but I thinkshe'll be like up there pushing
really early.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
So goes bigger, blows up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Yeah, goes bigger up, but that's what we like to see
as fans.
Uh, clementine joffrey uh yeah,she took me by surprise in 2023
when she won, but she'sbasically just hit home runs
since then.
Uh, she also won the euro trail.
They didn't have a long trailand short trailers had one trail
.
From my understanding it waslike a 58k, so it's kind of like
in between, um, but she wonthat trail championship again
last year, uh, for euros, andthen you know, top fives at OCC

(01:18:50):
Tomplier, uh six that marathonof Mont Blanc.
But I think this is really where, and especially with like, how
much focus these like Frenchguys are giving the trail, like
they weren't.
I was curious cause I noticedthat some of the French team was
racing ETC, but I think theirteam policy says 30 days before,
and I was double checking andETC was like the 26th of August
and I think the short traileruphill was like the 27 28, so it
was like just outside of that30 days, because that's why we

(01:19:12):
mostly didn't see uh frenchpeople race in any of the of the
uh utmb advances, but like, uh,but, etc.
I think was just outside thatwindow, so we did see some of
the french team race that um.
But you gotta think that likethese, I mean the yeah, the
french government prioritizes it, the french team prioritizes it
um, I think a lot of thesefrench racers are going to be,

(01:19:32):
uh, really ready to go, and Ithink clementine, like targets,
races really really well, soit's it's gonna be hard to bet
against her, but it's also likethis field is freaking stacked
it's so crazy, it's it's nuts tosee between the french, the
swiss and the spanish like I,and the fact that we're sending
a world champion on the Americanend over.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
I still don't see how the Americans fit in this race.
Like it's there's so muchexperience and so much depth and
like it's kind of crazy Likewe're sending a grand Teton
record holder, we're sending aworld champ, we're sending so
much depth, but I don't know.
Yeah, it's, there's a lot ofquestion marks.
On this One quick side quest, Ido have for you what.
On this one quick side quest, Ido have for you, what did you
think of, etc.
This race kind of really stuckon the radar for me this year,

(01:20:13):
especially after talking to remylarue and seeing how
competitive it was.
Like this to me seems like anew event on the short trail
side that I think really isworthy of coverage in 2026.
That just kind of blew my mindand like dan kurtz was there
like a quite like there wasquite a showing from the brooks
team, but just in general thedepth was extremely deep on this

(01:20:34):
yeah, totally agree.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
I'm pulling up the results as we do this right now.
Um, yeah, I think, etc.
Historically, just because it'snot technically one of the
majors and because there's Idon't from my understanding,
there's no prize money for it.
I don't even think so, but Ithink that it's just getting
bigger and bigger and I thinkthat I wouldn't be surprised if
that changes next year.
Given how popular I think utbwould be really wise to put
prize money up with it and kindof go to bat against the golden

(01:20:55):
trail series.
Not that they need a wholeseries, but just like with how
popular golden trail series is,they already kind of have their
ycc for the youth.
But this is like kind of aperfect feeder, like hey, you're
not quite not ready for occ,but maybe you just don't want to
step up to ultra stuff yet.
Yeah, I totally agree.
Looking at the top 10 list,we're going to see a lot of
these same guys, uh, thisweekend.
So, uh, alan santa maria blanco, spain guy, he's going to be

(01:21:16):
racing, I want to say uphill andclassic.
Cesare marestri from, uh, italy, he's going to be racing, uh,
at least one or two of thoseevents we just talked about him.
Uh, alberto vender, I'm prettysure he's racing as well on the
span side, on the Spain side, uh, or no, italy, excuse me.
And then Remy LaRue, finleygrant is going to be for the UK.
You mentioned Dan Kurtz, yeah,so just lots of really, really

(01:21:37):
good dudes.
Uh, quentin Milo.
He's on the French team.
So yeah, I do agree, it's kindof becoming.
I actually was looking prettyheavily at those results for
kind of getting ideas of who towatch and who's fit on the
women's side.
Uh, madalina florio, one, butthen maria fuentes she's spanish
, I think she's racing the shorttrail, if I'm not mistaken, um,
but she seems to be a littlebit better in the vk and shorter

(01:21:57):
stuff.
Naomi lang, in third place wetalked about her julia long and
fourth, uh, marie neve, alsoanna hofer for italy, and then
jess brazzo and martina cumulato.
So yeah, I definitely agree.
I think it's going to becomemore and more like an indicator
for who's fit.
I think it's going to becomelike another golden trail race,
honestly.
So, yeah, um, but also, ifyou're like hoka, you're more

(01:22:18):
likely to race it, because wedon't see a lot of hoka athletes
and golden trail stuff, um, sothis will be kind of like the
shorter, speedier people notableabsence, at least ponchette.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
I don't know what's up with that.
She's very popular on the worldscene too.
Like has raced in previousiterations and was at the
championship last year, so Iwonder if she's injured or just
has different goals this year,but she's definitely absent from
the start line yeah, so itlooks like she raced.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Looking at her using b, she did race the qualifier
for the vk.
Uh, for france, but it has heras dnf, so yeah, it's totally
possible.
Yeah, I think she was.
Did she eyeball?
Is she the one she just tookthe?
Uh mont blanc or the?
Uh?
Yeah, didn't she just take themont blanc?

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
yeah, back in man on skis.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Yeah, and that week where it got broke like three
times yeah um yeah, supercapable mountain athlete.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
I imagine she did try to qualify um mainstay on the
golden trail series for years.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Yeah yeah, and just a really good storyteller.
I think she's with our tarixnow too, which is cool.
Um, yeah, there's a goodnewsletter called mile and stone
.
That's like a french newsletter, but they put it out in english
too.
Um, and it talked pretty indepth about, like, selecting the
french trail team, and most ofthem were qualifiers, with the
exception of a handful, likeclementine didn't have to
qualify because she was areigning world champion, um, and

(01:23:34):
I think there was like one ortwo others that didn't have to
race in, but for the most part,it was mainly qualification.
Benjamin rubell didn't have toqualify for the long trail
because he was also reigningworld champion, so, but most of
them had to race in, and most ofthose races were really
competitive and that was like agood place to look for who for
me, that's what I was looking atfor who's going to do well,
because, like I said, we haditalians there, we had kenyans

(01:23:55):
there, so it was like a really,really deep kind of tune-up race
uh leading up to worlds, so Ilove it all right, man, you want
to?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
uh, you want to get into pics sure you got any more
anything to hit before we getinto pics uh, I think that's
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
I'm really excited for the short trial in both the
men's and women's, and it'spossible that you know I watch a
lot of golden trail and alsosome ultra stuff, um.
But this like from a fanperspective.
I think most of the well-knownathletes out of the three we
talked about today are going tobe in that short trail, um.
But I'm equally excited for allthe races, but this one just
really is like I'm reallycurious to see how it goes.

(01:24:29):
So I I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
All right, I'm going to let you take it away.
So we're going to start.
Let's start with the women'svertical, okay, um, so we're
going to do this in a couple ofdifferent ways.
So, women's vertical, we'll dothe individual.
Give me your top three and thengive me your top three teams.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Okay, vertical women's vertical individual top
three and top three teams.
So for the vertical, one secondI'm gonna pull up I have my
teams listed right away so Imight do that and then I'll pull
up the runners.
Uh, for my teams, team picks.
In the vertical, I'll go threethrough one.

(01:25:04):
Actually, I'll go one throughthree.
So I think for gold, I thinkI've got Great Britain in gold
Between Scout Adkin, who elsedid I have One second.
Let me pull up the uphillchance.
Let me go female, yeah, betweenI don't know I also had.

(01:25:29):
Am I looking at the right raceOne second?
Let me double check?
Yeah, uphill.
Yeah, I think I had.
So I also had.
Am I looking at the right raceOne second, let me double check?
Yeah, I'll fill.
Um, yeah, I think I had sogreat branding gold.
Uh, second place I had Germany,and third place I was between
Kenya and France.
Um, yeah, scout, I can.
I think he's going to do really, really well here.
And then there was a handful ofothers.

(01:25:49):
I don't remember why I pickedsome of them, though kenya for
sure, uh, between phalaris isgoing to be getting points.
And then I think also, who elsedid I have?
Yeah, I'm trying to, I'm tryingto think, but great britain,
germany and kenya is kind of whoI had, and I guess great been
kind of on the back of scoutAdkin, germany, I think Laura

(01:26:11):
Hottenroth and Nina Engelhardtwill do really well.
And then between Kenya andFrance, I think honestly I might
lean towards France, because alot of these VK specialists
between Christelle de Waal,marina Veil and there's one
other one that I'm not seeing.
But yeah, that's kind of whatI'm leaning towards.

(01:26:32):
If I had to go to individual topthree sorry, I got a little I
was like why did I say that?
But uh, individual top three Iwould probably have to have nina
.
I think I'm leaning hardtowards nina coming off of euro
tramp, so I'd have her, probablywith the gold, and then I think
that I would have uh scout insecond, and then I would

(01:26:52):
probably have Nellie.
Clement is who I was lookingfor on the French side, and
that's why I think France willbe in third.
I think she'll be in third.
So I'd probably go Nina andthen scout, and then Nellie
Clement.
So what about you?
Where were you thinking and whoare you looking out for in this
race?

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
this is tough.
This is tough, so I'm gonna sayit's hard for me to go one
through three.
I do say for team wise, I'mgonna go kenya.
One because of floris.
I think floris is gonna get upthere saying it's hard to say,
but the kenyans are so dirty,like they're so good, so it's

(01:27:36):
like it's very hard to like goagainst them, team wise.
In second place for team wise,I'm going to go great britain
because I do think scout isdefinitely going to get up there
.
In third place is a kind of awild card.
I'm going to go canada.
I think emica clark and jadebellsberg I have.
Like I think Emika Clark willprobably shock people.
I think she's had good resultsat like Golden Trail level races

(01:28:02):
, so she's got wheels.
I think there's a lot ofquestion marks as far as her in
a VK.
Let's see what happens.
And Jade Bellsburg is justalways very consistent, so I'd
like to see that.
Um.
And then on the women'svertical, I'm I'm gonna throw,
I'm throwing some wild ones outof here.
I'm gonna go on a gibson.
First place cool, I'm notopposed I think she has a very
good chance of meddling honestlyum, second place, I'm gonna go

(01:28:23):
for rs saying, and then I'mgonna go third place, scott ack,
and I think my podium is verysafe, with the exception of anna
.
Just because I don't like Ireally think anna has the
ability to to metal, I just Idon't know where we're at yet.
Like I, I I look at anna assuch a good uphill athlete.
She's also really talented onthe up, down and mountain
classic, so who's to say thatcouldn't happen?

(01:28:44):
So that's kind of where I'm at.
I think I, I like I don't know.
Like I um, this is myamericanism speaking, but, like
you know, obviously home cookingand there's always bias there,
but at the same time, um, I'mjust like I said this earlier in
the podcast like I don't thinkwe really know how good on it is
yet I think like there's a lotof potential there, um, for her

(01:29:08):
now and in the future to be oneof the greatest american
mountain runners of all time.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
So I don't think anna is like a crazy.
Yeah, I think she very likelywill go top five and probably
will medal.
I regret not making my picksbefore I came to sit down and
record with you, because I thinkflairis is a very strong pick
and I think she will definitelybe top five.
Uh, and last thing I would addI think laura hottenroth will
very likely go top five.
I think this course favorssomebody like her.
She's got a 224 marathon.
She was fourth in last world,uh, and so, yeah, I do think, um

(01:29:37):
, yeah, and then, yeah, I thinkit's just with the french team
targeting it between crystal, uh, dewall, marina bay and uh and
nelly, who I keep forgetting hername.
I think that they'll probablyhave like three in the top 15,
so I'll have a pretty good teamresult.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Yeah I think that's a good pick.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
So do you want to go to the men's side?

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
next let's go men's side.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
I'll let you go first for team okay, and one other
thing, with the woman too.
It's tougher to find the worldathletics results for the female
ugandan runners, but uganda issending a full team, so we could
very well have, like they have,five ugandan females running
they do we could easily see themin the medal count, um, and I
would not be surprised at allfor the men's picks.

(01:30:16):
Uh, so for team picks, I've gotkenya with the gold, I've got
uganda with silver and then I'vegot italy with bronze, and
that's kind of what I touched onearlier.
I think italians, uh, do verywell in the vk.
I don't think we'll seenecessarily meddling, but I
think that we'll see a lot offive through 15 or five through
20.
And that's kind of the name ofthe game.
You want, you know, threerunners up there in like the top

(01:30:37):
20.
With the men, okay, let me see.
Yeah, top three.
I still got to go.
Patrick for the gold.
I think a three-peat is verylikely and I think a three p is
very likely, and I think untilwe see somebody beat him it's
kind of like killing out Searsand all or something it's like
until I see somebody beat him,I'm not gonna bet against him.
So, uh, patrick with the goldis gonna be my pick, and then I

(01:30:59):
think I want to go.
Let's see, do we have?
I think I want to go, I'm gonnago on a limb.
I think there's gonna be aUgandan somewhere in the top
three I'll go with the guy, samSamuel Simba Cherope, the one of
the 13, 29, 5k and 28 minute10k, only 19 years old, but I

(01:31:22):
think that we saw a lot ofUgandans in the top 10 last time
, so I think he could be upthere.
Third place I think I want to gowith lucas airway.
Um, I think he's definitelygoing to be somewhere in the top
10.
I could see him as high as topfive, um.
But I'm also really curious.
I think remi could be up theretoo, but I'm hesitant with him

(01:31:44):
coming back from injury.
So, yeah, I'll go, patrick, uh,samuel simba chirope and then
lucas early, I like these.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
I like these.
These are getting good.
All right.
So for my teams, I'm gonna gofirst place.
Kenya as well.
I think patrick locks it down.
Um, I do think patrick is athree-time champion.
I just don't see anyone.
I don't see anyone eclipsinghim in this race.
But what do I know?
Uh, in second place for teamwise all right.
So think about it this way forscoring, I'm going to go team

(01:32:13):
USA.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
And so hear me out.
All right, if we get somebodylike Christian on the podium or
top four, you've got a lot ofgood anchor guys, like I think,
top 15, it's very possible toget someone like Joe and Tyler
in there and we don't reallyknow where it can.
Camp strength is uphill runningand has a ton of experience.
Don't be surprised to see camin the top like out of the top

(01:32:37):
20.
Like I do think there's astrong possibility that we could
have either no one on thepodium or one guy on the podium
and still get in that second orthird spot would not be
surprised there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
Yeah, I think to piggyback.
I think we haven't talked abouttyler.
Uh, nearly enough, so we'regonna get some credit.
I did hear your interview withhim.
He's a really likable guy.
He's really impressive, uh,he's.
He's kind of up there, we know,with the joe gray and the max
where he's still running like awhat sub 14 minute 5k and he's
in his early 40s like that'sreally nuts.
Um, and also just hearing himand kind of seeing how he's

(01:33:09):
raised the past couple of years,if this is more runnable, like
we think it is, then I thinkthat's more favors him.
If it's more of like the hikingand like more technical or like
the parts of Sunapee, what'sthe one really crappy part that
I like?
that is like yeah, like hands onknees, hiking uphill, like if
it's something like that.
I don't think he's talked aboutCause even when he made the
world's team last year and racedin italy, he talked about how,

(01:33:30):
like, that's not his cup of tea,where it was like steep running
on slick stairs or whatever.
But I think that if it is morerunnable, his leg speed is
really, really awesome and he isa really experienced racer.
So I think we kind of need togive some credit and I totally
agree that.
Yeah, I think he would begetting the points along with,
uh, with christian assumingchristian has a good day, and

(01:33:50):
then Joe Gray just being like astaple, so yeah, I don't
disagree with that at all.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
And, like I said, I love Cam.
Cam's probably one of myfavorite people in the sport and
has become a friend.
I just don't know where hemixes into it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
I think he looks better for the up-down than he
does for the VK and with the waythe race currently is, but he
has seemed the fastest.
I didn is um, but he has seemedthe fastest.
I didn't look at his rut 28kcompared to past years but um,
he does seem like he's the mostfit.
He's been out of the past threeyears and he's always we know
he's always very good atclimbing, so yeah and I don't
know it's gonna be interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
Yeah, I and he did torch the vk man.
I mean it's yeah, I don't know.
All right, so back to uhselections.
I'm gonna go first patrick.
I just think patrick's gonna bereally hard to beat.
Um, I don't know, I neverreally pick remy in races, but
like, with remy back and doingthis first worlds, he is one of
the best uphillers on the planet, or at least was 2023 pikes
peak marathon champion.

(01:34:40):
We don't know where he's at,coming back from uh, you know,
from injury.
We'll see.
So I'm just gonna throw remy inthere a second I think.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
I think remy's a great pick.
We we talked offline Like hedoes this one race every year in
Switzerland called NerevuMolison, and I'm sure I'm
butchering that, um, butbasically that's the one where I
think the highest scoring intraindex ever is him winning that.
The same year he won the brokethe Pikes Peak uh scent record
only.
Like usually it's like a 56minute race or I think his

(01:35:09):
course record is like 55 high um, and he was only about like 20
seconds off that this year.
So, and he does that race likeevery year, so it's a pretty
good fitness test and that waslike pre-injury or whatever, but
I gotta believe it, and he onlyhad a absolutely dominant
schemo year as well.
So I think he's, yeah, I thinkthat's an awesome pick.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
So and then in third, if I think, if we do have a
chance of getting on the podium,I think it's going to be
christian, like.
I think if christian has aperformance like he did a broken
arrow I think there's strongopportunities there to get on
there.
To get third, um, I don't know,it depends on what type of
christian shows up.
I did talk to him the other dayand he seems very you know,
he's over there with his family.
He seems extremely motivated.
I think there's a lot of Idon't think there's a lot of

(01:35:47):
pressure to perform here, but Ithink it would be tremendous for
his, I think, I just think itwould be tremendous for his, for
his resume, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yeah, and we've seen him do well at WMRA type stuff
Like he did.
I want to say he got second.
Yeah, he, I mean he's done wellat this type of race before, um
in racing internationally, so Idefinitely think he could, he
could do super well.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
So all right, let's go, uh, let's go.
Mountain classic I'll let youtake it away with teams.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Okay, Uh let me pull it up real quick.
Short trail classic.
Okay, here we go.
Um, so, team wise, do you wantto go men or women first?
Let's go women first.

(01:36:38):
Women's team picks.
I've got gold kenya, silver usaand bronze france.
Um, yeah, uh, with kenya,between joyce, valentine rudo
and gloria chabat.
I think all of them will bepoint getters and I think I
probably see all three of themin the top 10 up in the air of
joyce.
Joyce has kind of been up anddown this year.
I could see her winning gold.
I could also see her getting10th, but I think all three of
them will model usa, like yousaid, I think uh and we talked
about that with the intro index.
I think that it shows, and Ithink this team feels like uh,

(01:36:59):
the best female out of the threethat we've talked about so far.
Um, so I think between uhhaving I think that both anna
and anna and lauren gregory aregoing to do really, really well
here and Laura has uh.
Lauren Gregory has a world'sexperience and then Allie Mac
obviously has tons of experiencewe haven't seen a race as much
as she had in the past this yearbut I think all three of them
will race, uh, super well.

(01:37:20):
Uh.
And I think, even if Allie Macdoesn't have a good day, I think
Courtney Covinger picks up theslack and goes really good at uh
, golden trail series and she'sbeen a really consistent racer,
so, uh.
And then bronze france, um,between, yeah, christelle de
wall, nelly clement, who I'vetalked, we've talked about
multiple times on the differentevents and then also julie long

(01:37:41):
and marina bay.
So they kind of have like anextra woman could have a bad day
and as long as three of themare good, they're good to go.
Um, and I put a question marknext to ugandan woman because
they are also sending a fullteam there from what I can tell.
Like I said, their worldathletics indexes are a little
bit harder to research and theydidn't publish their.
They published their team butthey didn't publish their team
results, like Kenya for theirqualifying race.

(01:38:02):
I could see who did what andthat also kind of influenced my
picks.
Um, uganda didn't.
So I think they're a big wildcard as well.
Top.
So I think they're a big wildcard as well.
Top three individually.
This is where I should havemade my picks.
Before Anything, I say I'mliable to change and I will
change my fantasy free traillike 45 times.
But off the top of my head,just looking at this list, I

(01:38:23):
think, let me see, I'mdefinitely going to have at
least all right.
I'm going to have at least Allright.
I think I'll probably go ScoutAdkin, and First.
I think she actually isprobably better at the up-down

(01:38:44):
stuff than she is just at the VK.
And then I think I'll goValentin Rudo, coming off of
fourth place in our last raceand let's see.
Actually, no, I'll go ScoutAtkin first, I'll go Nelly

(01:39:09):
Clement from France in second,and then I'll go Valentlly
clement from france in second,and then I'll go valentine rudo
in third.
Uh, nelly clement reallyimpressed me because, uh, french
up down champions, she wonoverall and she beat a field
that included joyce gloria andscout atkin all of her running
this race and who are, in myopinion, going to be in the top
10, if not the top five spots.
So I think that she'll be kindof like that sleeper pick.

(01:39:32):
And am I missing?
Oh, nina engelhardt.
Oh, dang, I'm missing ninaengelhardt.
Hmm, I might swap out glory tobet for nina engelhardt.
So I'll go scout first, uh,nelly second and nina third.
So, yeah, damn, this is close.
This is tight man.

(01:39:52):
I feel bad not having a kenyanrunner in my top three, because
I think there will be one, but Ithink there are some really
really good up down europeans.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
So val, and it's hard to bet against valentine, who's
was fourth in 2023.
Yeah, she was fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
And then she really likes the third and fourth
places.
So that's why I was kind of onthe fence.
I had her in third and I waslike I think she'll probably go
third or fourth, like she has aton of thirds third at golden
trail series, no only third attrophy onisego, third at the
wmra in china this year, thirdat the french up down and then a
win at jared amant.

Speaker 1 (01:40:21):
So so I'm gonna go teams, I'm going usa gold.
I think this is, if we're gonnado it, this is the opportunity
to do it, in my opinion, yeah.
Second, I'm going to go France.
Third, I'm going to go Kenya.
I do have Valentin Rudo in thatfirst spot and I have Ana
Gibson and Lauren Gregoryworking together in second and

(01:40:41):
third.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
Nice.
Yeah, I honestly think Laurencould do really well here, and I
think Ana, I don't know.
I guess I need to be more gutsyand put my money where my mouth
is, but I really do think on agood metal here.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
So yeah it's.
It's interesting to me like Ithink in one of the races on is
gonna get a medal.
I really do, I just don't know.
I think the mountain classicmight be more.
I don't know, man, it's hard tosay like she's she almost
caught Michelino at rendezvous,dude.
Like she's so fast and so goodon the uphill now it's kind of
crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
So I don't know um I think I had ptsd from 2023
worlds, when I had really highhopes and put up a ton of like
uh, us or yeah, and then I justwatched kenya and uganda like
destroyer absolutely but, to befair, the women's race was more
well-rounded and like a top 10.
There's three kenyan females inthe top 10 in 2023.
But I mean we also had USA gotthe gold, sweden got, you know,
silver, we had Germany, romania,czech Republic, france and

(01:41:35):
Great Britain.
So I think there is like a good, a really good mix.

Speaker 1 (01:41:38):
So all right, let's go to the men.
I'll let you take it away, okayuh, men's uh for classic
distance.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
I have Kenya getting the gold.
I have Kenya getting the gold,I have Uganda getting the silver
, and then I have bronze.
I do have the US in bronze andI could potentially even see
them getting the silver as well.
And then individual medals.
I still think.
Phil Monn, it is his race tolose, Like we said, he's had

(01:42:07):
up-down years, but I think he'sreally, really dialed this year
and I think he has a lot ofconfidence and even his WMRA
races pretty much anythingthat's up-down, he wins.
He doesn't really win thevertical stuff, but he wins the
up-down.
And then I think I'll probablygo with.
Let me see.
Fifth, where are we going tostart the race?

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
I can't decide.
There's definitely gonna be twoKenyans in my top three and I'm
trying to decide betweenMichael Salelo and Paul Machoka
for the next spot.
I think that I'll probably gowith Paul Machoka cause he is
the top ranked runner per WMRAstandings.
He's got lots of good resultsand he does really, really good
and uh up down races.
So I think I'll probably go himin second and then I think

(01:42:56):
lucas, early from germany inthird.
Um, him and nina engelhardt.
I'm really, really impressedwith their euro results last
year and they.
Nina doesn't race as much, butlucas has raced a lot of races
with kenyan guys at like wmraevents.
He did one in china and hestill beat out a lot of guys, um
, so I think he can hang with alot of these East Africans and
can do really well.
So I'll go Phil Amon and firstPaul Machoka and second and

(01:43:17):
Lucas early in third.
What are you thinking?

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
I definitely have Paul Machoka in there.
Um, I have us.
I gotta say, like I think thisis the other same thing.
If we like, just as it was forthe mountain classic for the
women, um, it's the same thingfor the men, like if there's
going to be a men's team that'sgoing to perform really well
here, like this has got to bethe one.
Yeah, um, I don't know, I I'mlike kind of waffling back and

(01:43:41):
forth between kenya and usa.
I have italy kind of, orgermany kind of, in that third
spot from a team perspective.
Um, somewhere it's got to beusa or kenya, maybe leaning more
towards usa, but it's hard tosay um.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
You said italy was considered.
You're considering too.
What was that?
Did you say?
You're considering italy for aspot as well?

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
yeah, yeah, lucas, earl, um, I don't know man.
So I do have taylor, so this isthe only one I didn't pick a
podium for, and just because I'mlike so on the fence.
So my problem with philomon isthat I've seen him beaten like
I've watched it and I'm like man, I don't know, like it's, it's.
I do think taylor stack has nothad the race that like he's had

(01:44:21):
some amazing races, but I don'tthink he's had the one yet.
This could be be it.
I've watched David Norris beatPhil Amon, so I could definitely
see that happening as well.
I think there's a lot of peoplein a mountain classic race, so
I don't know, I mean, those areall people I could see on the
podium.
I'm going to defer and that'swhat I've got.
I do have United States Gefflergetting a medal.

(01:44:41):
I just don't know how it fallsinto place like I could see this
being.
I could see this being a goldor I could see it being a silver
.
I think anything less than thatwould be possibly
disappointment for the talentlevel of this team.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
So yeah, I also think that italy could be.
Uh, they did get.
They had two in the top 10 lastyear, both of which are
returning cesare mastery andxavier chevrolet.
And then, uh, another guy,isaac o costo costa excuse me,
beat uh, cesare maristri and theuptown champion.
So I think all three of thoseguys could go top 15.
That could also be a potentialteam medal as well, because they

(01:45:16):
like these type of classictrail races.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
So it's so hard to tell.
I mean, this is my distance andI just can't.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
It's hard to pick man , it is well, the margins are so
thin, like in ultra.
You know, if it's like a oneminute race it's close, or you
know ccc being 20 seconds apart.
But you know, if I'm looking atthe top 10 from last year, you
know it's like, uh, eightseconds between first and second
, five seconds between secondand third, uh, and then I guess
there's almost a minute and thenone second between, you know,

(01:45:43):
fourth and fifth.
Like you know, the margin, themargin for error, is very, very
thin, and so if somebody has abad day and it's just a little
bit off, it's like I have aquestion has paul machoka raced
philemon head-to-head this year?
uh, I imagine they have had to.

Speaker 1 (01:45:56):
Let me see because I'd be more inclined to possibly
pick paul machoka.
I don't know why I'm shittingon philemon, but like I've just
seen him lose before and I'mjust like I don't, it's hard to
say I think they probably have.

Speaker 2 (01:46:07):
I want to say paul ran the top five at sierras and
all and lost there.
Uh, and let me just doublecheck because I didn't write
down as many of his results.
Um, but he, I'm 95 sure that heraced sierras and all.
Let's see.
Yeah, he did race here as anall, he got fifth.
Geraldamont philemon didn'trace.

(01:46:31):
And then he raced the up downfrench championships, got sixth.
Yeah, I think sierra's and allmight be the main place that
they raced this year.
Uh, he raced golf, adela sola,and got third, which philemon
won.
That I'm pretty sure.
And then Trofeo Nisego I'm notsure if Philmon raced, let me
double check uh, he raced.

(01:46:52):
Uh, they both raced Phil.
Uh, trofeo Nisego, which isreally competitive Italian race,
and Philmon won that.
So he's beat him head to headevery time this year, from what
I can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
So all right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
All right, maybe Philmon it is then, like I said,
philmon is like winning runningmuch better he had so many
second places last year and Iwas like he's just got to get
one win.
And then he's like, hey, I'mback on it and he legit didn't
have a win last year, eventhough he had, you know, two
golden trail series where he'swithin two seconds of uh but you
know, so far this year I'mlooking at, you know, when it's
here, isn't all uh second at thefrench up down champs, and then

(01:47:26):
yeah, I mean he's just won alot more.
So trofeo nisego golfa de lasola, uh, yeah, so he's got
three or four wins under hisbelt.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
So all right, let's pivot to women short trail.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
Okay, I'll let you take it away, all right women's
short trail okay, I'll let youtake it away.
All right, women's short trail,let me get it pulled up real
quick.
All right, short trail.
Women's side, on the teamresults, I've got, uh and this
was tough, um, but I it'sdefinitely gonna be some order
of these top three.
I've got spain and gold.
Uh, gold position spain.

(01:48:04):
Silver.
I've got france and bronze.
I've got switzerland.
I can almost guarantee it'sgonna be those top three or like
it's gonna be those three, butI just don't know in what order.
And um, and it just blows mymind like spain has legit like
six or seven women that.
So basically, they have tons ofwiggle room.
If, like, even if sarah alonzoor malo and osa has a bad day,
it's like you still have, yeah,patricia pineda, martina martina

(01:48:28):
.
Martina is um at the bottom ofthe list because I think they
misspelled her name is oyhanacortazar, who's also she was top
10 returning world.
Um, so they just have a ton ofpeople where, like, if multiple
of them have a bad day, they'restill in really, really good
shape.
But then, likewise, I meanfrance, uh, has an insanely deep
field.
Switzerland has a little bitless wiggle room, but they're
some of the most consistentracers.
Udith weeder never misses.
Um, maude doesn't really missand I think, with racing now

(01:48:51):
that she's back to her health, Idon't think she will.
And then, uh, therese labouf,like you said, like she's like
one of the most consistentracers.
So I think that those threewere definitely gonna score and
score well, um, but switzerlandjust doesn't have as much wiggle
room if one of them doesn't.
And then if they had thatorioleachi uh, female racing
also as well, I'd be like that.
Actually, I could see themgoing even higher, because she
did super well at uh, sears andallen is really fast.

(01:49:14):
And then, yeah, I mean on the onthe french side, like returning
world champion, uh, lucillegermain has been knocking out of
the park with sky running uhraces this year, so I think
she's super good, uh.
And then adeline martin, not aswell known, but she got third
at euro tramps, uh, euro champs,short trail last year.
I think she also has a win inworlds in 2019, if I'm not

(01:49:34):
mistaken, uh, or at least asilver medal.
She meddled somewhere there, uh.
And then she, yeah, she just isreally consistent.
I didn't know about her until, Ithink, the last world.
She raised her the euro champs,one of the two, and then spain
also left out ikram or solo too,like.
So I mean, they just have somany people that are gonna like
that can race really well.
Individual medalist wise,though, um, this one's so hard,

(01:49:56):
yeah, this one's gonna be reallyhard, and this is where, like,
I should have made my picksbefore.
Um, I know, ma or, excuse me, Iknow I'm gonna have udith
somewhere in the top three, soI'm just gonna think out loud,
real quick udith for sure in thetop three.
Um, one person we didn't eventalk about was caroline kamatai,
for kenya yes, another I'm alittle hesitant because this is
gonna be her longest race.
It's gonna be two hours longerthan her longest race, which was

(01:50:18):
rastanaka, and then took aboutlike three hours and 15 minutes.
You got to think these womenare probably gonna come around
five ish hours if I had to guess.
So that's my only question,with, like, it being super
technical, I could be totallywrong.
I mean, I thought, yeah, she'sdone really well in every race
she's done so far.
But uh, udith, who else do Iwant?
I feel like clementine's got tobe up there and let me get a

(01:50:41):
spaniard.
Let's go, sarah alonzo.

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
So, um, yeah let's get some home field advantage.
So what about clementine?
You don't have Clementine inthere.
You know, I have Clementine, Ihave Clementine.

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
I think.
So I uh, in order.
I think I'll still goClementine to defend Judith, and
then Sarah would probably behow I'd want to go.
Um, I think she's a betterracer than Clementine, but I
think, with Judith having justrace OCC and Clementine being
fresh and she also just targetsthese type of events really well

(01:51:10):
, I mean I feel like, heck,she's the defending champ, so
it's her slues.
So, yeah, I'll go Clementine,judith and Sarah Alonzo.
Um, I think mods also pausedfor like a really really good
day and I think she's going tobe up there somewhere thinking
oh my god, like pretty much sameexact thing you have.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
So women's team I've got just in different order,
I've got switzerland getting thegetting the gold, I've got
spain in second, france andthird, and then, for the
individual women, I've gotclementine joffrey uh taking the
dub again, sarah alonzo insecond, udith wider in third
clementine sarah yeah, so it'slike it's pretty much the same
exact little different order, umI totally think, I totally
agree with your switzerland pick.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
But I'm like hedging my bets because I'm like if one
of them like we don't really seeudith or maude have a bad day
and terese really honestly superwell.
We've seen maude with herinjury stuff, but it feels like
it's a new mod.
But yeah, I mean I could easilysee udith and maude both in the
top five and then terese likeseven through ten, and it's like
it's gonna be pretty hard tobeat a team like that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:07):
So what do you think?
Where do you think team usafalls into this one for the
short trail women?
Because, remember, we do havegrayson in the mix.
Has grayson, like improvedenough to prove or show you know
, in the mix with these women,because she's so good and I feel
like we have her almost as anafterthought yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
So so, talking about, uh, us women yeah, we've been
slacking on some you'vementioned, so we've already
mentioned Jane, uh, who we'reexcited to see.
Uh, and her grantee, tom timewas amazing.
Uh, ruby, who's been gettingbetter and better every year.
I first met her at run the rutSuper, and then Lindsay Allison
as well we haven't evenmentioned all podcasts and she's
been getting better every everyrace that she's done so far

(01:52:49):
this year.
And then, like you said,grayson, and then also we've
left out Tabor Hemming.
Tabor has had a bit of a up anddown year.

Speaker 1 (01:52:56):
I was really impressed and I think, if she I
mean what it could have showedher but like it could have
easily been a Hemming sweep atOCC, she led through like 20
miles and then I don't rememberwhat ended up being the issue.
Um, she broke bone.

Speaker 2 (01:53:11):
I think she's something.
I think I think her breathinglocked up or something.
Something caused her not tofinish.
But um taber is definitely justas talented as uh as anyone in
this field, so I'm reallycurious to see if she can get a
bounce back.
Race um, because she also shednf ccc.
Did she race ccc this year?
I can't remember.
I thought I saw her in thestart list.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
I think she started ccc, yeah, but she didn't but I
don't, I don't think shefinished, so she did yeah I'm
not sure, um, what happenedthere, but yeah, you're totally
right.

Speaker 2 (01:53:35):
I think, grayson, I very likely can see her going
top five and potentially evengetting a medal.
Um, because I do like that.
She's gotten better at everyrace and I know she has some
stomach issues is the ibs orcolitis, one of the two,
something along those lines, um,but it seems like she's really
learning how to deal with it.
Um, because I would be morenervous about that kind of stuff

(01:53:57):
and an ultra than I would inthe typical races that she used
to or, you know, used to do withthe up down um, but it seems
like, you know, she's onlygotten better with with every
ultra.
So, yeah, I could very well seegrace in the top five, um, and
then tabor, on a good day, coulddefinitely go top 10, and I'm
excited to see where jane uhraces as well she just doesn't

(01:54:17):
have a lot of like deep raceexperience.
But she's very talented.
So, yeah, um, I was reallyexcited about the fk, the grand
titan fkt, too, like the titon,the grand is just like it's.
It's so iconic, it's so prettythe tetons are like.
That's why I moved out west.
Like um, it's just one of themost beautiful mountain rangers
in the world, in my opinion.
So, yeah, so, um, it will bevery interesting to see.

(01:54:40):
Uh, and I honestly think tobyalexanderson is like a big
sleeper question mark eventhough it's weird.
It feels weird calling hersleeper when she's the second
highest on the fantasy freetrail picks with regards to utb
index.
But it's like I forgot who shewas for a second and then when I
saw, looked her up I was like,oh yeah, it's this chick.
That like when she raced goldentrail series, like she just left
it out, kind of like ally macor zach miller, like she just

(01:55:03):
goes and she goes hard and it'seither gonna you know, she's
gonna blow everyone out of thewater or she's gonna blow
herself up and uh, I she endedup at golden trails.
Here is with like blood on herknees, mud on her face, like she
just looks like a like a toughmudder poster or something like
that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
So let's go man.
Uh, we'll just wrap this upwith a short trail.
Um, I'll let you pick, take itaway with teams and then
individual.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
Yes, teams, it's tough to bet against the three
biggest mountain racingcountries, and definitely in
Europe, if not like the world.
I've got gold, italy, silver,spain and bronze will be France
and Italy just has.
If I'm looking at Italy's team,luca Del Pero, let's see who

(01:55:47):
else Davide Magnini.
At Italy's team, luca Del Pero,let's see who else Davide
Magnini assuming he startsDaniel Pettis, lorenzo Beltrami,
and I feel like there was evenone more that I didn't have
written down, but they have like60.
Yeah, they had another link,lorenzo Roto.
So they basically have, likethey have a lot of room and I
think that it's pretty hard.
Like, luca's for sure going tobe in the top 10.

(01:56:09):
I think that adobe day, if hefinished, if he races, he's
going to be in the top 10.
Daniel is insanely talented.
He's also going to be top 10.
He's kind of like roberto dilorenzi in that way, where he's
just like steady chugging.
His third place at zagama wasawesome this year, uh, and he
just missed out.
Yeah, he was top three atzagama, um.
And then lorenzo beltrami hasbeen kind of up and coming sky

(01:56:31):
runner uh, fifth at zagama, kindof a breakout, but he also has
a lot of top fives at uh, at skyrunning world series races, and
he also had a fourth in thevaldoran 50k, which was the utmb
major for uh, for the utmb 50k,or like for the euro, like
they're a coven of canyons,basically, um, yeah, so I think
that they're super deep.

(01:56:52):
And then, with regards to spain, I can easily see spain taking
the gold to um home, home fieldadvantage.
We talked about mando maria's,we talked about antonio martinez
perez, we talked about, uh,andrew blanas, and then yeah,
and so they're looking reallygood.
And then, for france, I meanfrance, france is like they're,
in my opinion, they're thefavorites when the overall medal

(01:57:13):
again, just because they'refocused so much on it, um, but
I'm hoping that you know, the uscan change that, or, uh, I
don't know somebody else, butlike they're definitely putting
all their eggs in this basket.
So, france, between tomascarden, uh, who else do we have?
Yeah, tomas carden, and thenfred tranchard is definitely
going to be top 10 somewhere,and then sylvan kashard could

(01:57:33):
definitely have a really goodday out there as well.
So, um, individual medals thisis definitely going to get
exciting and this is toughbecause it's like, um, who do I
want to go?
All right, I think if I had togo gold this is tough because
steon used to be like theautomatic pick and it's not that

(01:57:54):
case anymore, but that's goodbecause it means troning is more
competitive and exciting, uh,so I think I want to go.
I'm gonna go three through one.
I'm gonna go luca del perro inthird.
I definitely decent lock forthe top 10, probably lock for
the top five, and I think he'sjust getting better every race
this year.
So I'll go luco in in third.
Uh, lucas del perro.

(01:58:14):
And then I think I'll go davidsinclair in second.
I think he's gonna be the onewho recovers better from ccc.
His training still looks insane.
I'm hoping that he's notovercooking it, but he's like
throwing down some really goodtimes and some new england
routes and go going and takingsome like run the white uh

(01:58:35):
segment challenges and stuff.
So I'll go david for silveranother second place in a big
race for him.
And the gold is really hard,because I'm like if davide races
, I think he can win, but Idon't know that he's going to
race.
My heart wants me to cheer forManu because I really, really
love Manu, and then, uh, but Ithink that I might go with Tomas

(01:58:59):
Cardin from France.
Um, he's not really as wellknown from the U S audiences but
he's won a lot of the bigfrench races, including tomplay
and a6 uh, which is like.
Those are two like 15 mile-ishraces.
Um, he was the european shorttrail champion last year with
that like 58k, with like 4 000meters of vert um.
This year he's got a six atzagama um, which was impressive

(01:59:20):
because when I watched the racehe came out really hard and I
thought he blew up, but heactually just kind of backed off
and then ran his own race, um,which was really mature.
This year he also got a thirdat marathon mont blanc behind
davide magnini.
The only question mark I haveis I don't know that he's as
good on the technical stuff assomebody like manu, so that
would make me want to pick manu,but I'll pick tomas cardin for
first, so I like that I like itall right, I'm gonna go spain,

(01:59:43):
and first for men or for theteam, sorry, okay, uh, I'm gonna
go italy in second.

Speaker 1 (01:59:47):
Third, I'm gonna go usa.
It's hard for me to not, Idon't know, dude, I want to go
usa over france, just because,if we are bringing heavy hitters
, think about it.
I mean between david sinclair,david sinclair um eli, noel
williams, michelino sinceri, andmichelino has yet to figure out
a race this year, but hasfigured out what the problem is

(02:00:09):
okay, that's good if we get aprime michelino, that's like
broken arrow level, or likespeed goat champion level
michelino, or great, let's saygrand fkt holder michelino, like
yeah, that's, that's no joke, Ithink he can mix it up with the
europeans, um, and then you getmax, who's got?
You know, obviously gonna pulllike he's I don't want to say an
anchor, but like definitelygonna score I think he's, yeah,

(02:00:31):
I think he's gonna be in the topthree.

Speaker 2 (02:00:33):
Yeah, and I don't even think we did.
We say seth ruling saying andthen we got, we got through your
boy.

Speaker 1 (02:00:37):
Yeah, we got seth ruling, who you know is another
broken arrow 46k champion.

Speaker 2 (02:00:41):
I don't know, that's what I said he's won run the rut
and he's run broken arrow.
So like we don't think of himbecause his most recent race
results aren't technical, butlike yeah I mean, run the rut is
like the closest sky race thatwe have in the in the states,
and then he's one broken arrow.
Um.
He's a big question mark for mebecause I think he could do
really good um, but he's kind ofhad a mixed bag of results,
like ccc had what fifth or sixth, then he also had a dnf yeah um

(02:01:03):
, and so I don't know.
I'm excited to see him race.
Max King, I think could kill it.
No, williams, I'm excited tosee race as well.
I think he could be kind of asleeper pick.
And then, yeah, you're right,michelino, I mean, he's won.
Run the.
What did he take Sinclair'scourse record at?
Run the rut?
If not, he's very close to it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:20):
He actually does have it.
He's definitely on top threemultiple times he's won.

Speaker 1 (02:01:25):
That's.
What got him on the map was aspeed goat win.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
He's actually won it and he's won broken as well so
he's kind of david sinclair, andthen he's won them all and then
david's just been a little bitmore recently winning them and
um setting course records onthem, so it's like, yeah, dude,
he definitely this could be anamazing team could be.

Speaker 1 (02:01:39):
I don't know, it's hard to say I hope he knocks it
out.

Speaker 2 (02:01:41):
He's kind of had a mixed bag, or like you know.
Yeah, I'm cheering for him bigtime.

Speaker 1 (02:01:45):
So I'm going to go, luca Del Perro winning Nice.

Speaker 2 (02:01:49):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:50):
I'm going to go, antonio Martinez Perez also in
second, I think he you know,dude, it just made me like
really think about it.
Just because he's such a goodtechnical runner and because of
this way this course runs, Iit's just very out there.
It's very technical, it's verytechnical, it's very, I don't
know.
I think this is more his coursethan something like occ, yeah,

(02:02:12):
and I think he just didn't get achance to.
I mean, dude, he's beentraining with ben demon, he's
been training with like a lot ofsome of the new asics athletes.
I think he I don't know, Ithink he's definitely better on
paper than or definitely betterthan what, maybe what he shows
on paper.
Uh, and the third, I'm gonna godavid sinclair.
I think david sinclair figuresit out and I think he's the one
for the americans to do it.
Um, I hope he lies up there, Ihope the americans are up there,

(02:02:34):
but I do think.
I think this is a meddling team.
I just don't know where itfalls.

Speaker 2 (02:02:39):
Yeah, I think antonio is a really good pick.
Looking at the course again,like they're, the course I'm
looking at has the ups and downsand the high points, but it's
not showing me how long thedescent is, but there's a very
long descent at the end and Ithink that Antonio could easily
like gobble up you know three,four or five spots, like we've
seen him doing OCC and yeah, andhe actually mainly trains with
the Andrew Blond is guy that wementioned, and I can honestly

(02:03:00):
see Andrew Blond is meddling aswell with his second place at
Sears and all this year, or,excuse me, at Sagama.
Um, he wants here as an all in2023.
That was really, reallyimpressive and he kind of raced
and came out and, uh, led fromthe gun and when Elzean took the
lead, I was like, oh no, he'scooked, he's gonna, he's gonna
fade and he just like stuck it.
He.

(02:03:22):
He's been getting a lot oftraining out here with Antonio.
I wouldn't be surprised to seeeither of them in the top five
because they're both reallytalented.
I like Antonio, he's one ofthose Skyrunners.

Speaker 1 (02:03:35):
Not.

Speaker 2 (02:03:35):
Italian but Spaniard.
Between Spain and Italy there'sso many good Skyrunners that
are sponsored by Scarpa or havebeen sponsored by Scarpa at some
point.

Speaker 1 (02:03:44):
I love it.
Wow, that's our picks, picks,dude.
This was the first two hourepisode.
I've done it forever.
I didn't even know it was twohours it just flew by, so um do
you have any ending thoughts?

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
uh, no.
My ending thought is do youknow if this is available to
watch or, like I haven't, it'sgonna be on.

Speaker 1 (02:04:01):
Yeah, it's gonna be um live.
Um.
I don't know what channels it'sgonna be on or the ability to
get it.
I think I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:04:08):
I gotta like I can add to the show notes after yeah
, I think I think my anythoughts is like I know I
watched the 2023 worlds and Iwas like pretty early in my
fandom uh, and the vibes werelike really really awesome from
2023 worlds.
The media coverage was reallygood.
So I'm just like really reallyexcited to see, uh, how they
cover it this year and kind ofhow they bring like a Spanish
flair to it.
Um, cause, I thought the one inInnsbruck looked really really

(02:04:29):
awesome and I remember just likebeing excited for the content
and then, uh, really enjoyingthe content that came out all
week.
So, yeah, I'll be super excitedto watch and, um, yeah, I mean
I'll be rooting for the USA.
I know I didn't pick them asmuch as people probably expect,
but like no I'm very much like Iwant the usa to do super well,
but I also try to be nuancedwith, like you know, I'm a big

(02:04:49):
fan of trail running in generaland like europe's kind of the
home to a lot of this skyrunning, especially like the
worlds.
That's this technical.
It's like you know, this isreally what a lot of and any
given weekend in italy, spain orfrance, you can go and there's
a vk or up down race, and so forevery race that we've heard of,
there's like 25 that we haven'theard of.
Um, and that's cool, that's acool problem to have.

Speaker 1 (02:05:09):
So, no, I love it yeah it's interesting, like I
think we I don't know, I'm very50, 50, 50 of me really wants to
show that, like, like theathletes have said, like a lot
of my friends and peers havelike put out there, it's like,
yeah, we want to show that like,this is that american trail
running is on the map now, andit's like here to stay, but also
it's like you also want to showrespect to the guys and gals

(02:05:30):
that have been winning this inthe last few years.
And yeah, it's definitely theeuros.
So you know, we, I think theAmericans have a lot to prove,
and I rightfully so, you knowyeah.

Speaker 2 (02:05:39):
And the analog kind of feels like I mean, I've only
recently become a track andfield fan, but you know,
america's is very good at stuffthat we have not been very good
at in a long time, specificallythe 1500 and the 5000.
And we just had, you know, coleHawker go and win the 5000
meter and we haven't had a USmen win since 2007 in the 5000
meter.
And it's like not only do wehave like the chance to win it,

(02:06:00):
but we have like three differentguys that could go out there
plausibly and win it.
And so, yeah, I think it kindof feels that same way in the US
scene.
I think we have certain teamsthat look really good, and this
men's short trail is one of themand the women's classic is one
of them.
But, yeah, I would love to seeus win the overall competition
and it's cool just to see theseyoung people like your Sidney

(02:06:22):
Petersons or Taylor Stacks thatare just coming out of college.
I say just, I mean they've beenout for a couple of years, but
it's like to get people excitedabout the sport is when they're
still, when they're maybe burntout on running collegiately or
running around an oval, but thenthey find a different way to
run and it's kind of like lightsup a new fire.
So, yeah, I definitely agree.
I think, uh, the U?
S has something to prove.
Uh, and yeah, I'll be rootingfor us for every event.

Speaker 1 (02:06:46):
It's going to be fun, no doubt about it.
I mean, this is the mostelectric worlds that I feel like
we've had, so it's going to bepretty and it might be dude.
I think it's a special one too.
Like, who knows, this might bethe last time we see Joe at one
of these.
I hope not.

Speaker 2 (02:06:59):
Joe or Max, yeah, or.

Speaker 1 (02:07:00):
Max.
Yeah, I think it's a reallytime to to be a fan in the sport
and to be following it and,yeah, I just wish everybody the
best of luck and I hope thatpeople listen to this.
Like, really take away somevalue for their free.
When does?
When does it lock up for freetrial fantasy picks?

Speaker 2 (02:07:14):
uh, it'll lock up when the race starts, so the
closest one is 25th yeah, it'sthe 25th, which is like two days
and 12 hours out, so make sureyou get them in and make sure
you pick 10 deep too.
It should.
I think it gives you some kindof notification, because I made
that mistake on a couple raceslast year where they're 10 deep,
but I think all these worldsones are 10 deep, so pick as
many people as it lets you pick,basically.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
So yeah, oh yeah.
Well, dude, do me a favor, plugyour substack again.

Speaker 2 (02:07:36):
We'll link it in the show notes yeah, uh, my substack
is rob runs round, uh, justlike it sounds so a lot of
alliteration.
But yeah, rob runs round atsubstack and you can just uh
follow or subscribe and it'llsend out.
Um, it'll send out whateverpodcast, or sometimes they'll do
like a little recap, uh, likewritten article too, like I did
one after sears and all.

(02:07:56):
But usually I'll try to previewanything that's coming up on uh
free trail.
So it looks like even freetrail has the mammoth, the 200
miler I think it is.
So I might need to do someresearch and try to get
something out, um, but typicallyanything that they uh, that
they preview or that they dowhich is about a race a week, um
, then I'll try to do some kindof preview for it.
I can't say I make everyone,but I try to make most of them,

(02:08:16):
and definitely for the big ones,western whatever, whatever I
make it, although this year atutmb I was a little bit bad, but
that was my fault because Iplanned a vacation right when
utmb was happening, which was abad idea.

Speaker 1 (02:08:26):
So, yeah, rob runs around on substack, uh, and then
that's also my instagram handleas well, so perfect I'll link
your instagram and everything inthe show notes so people will
be able to give you a follow andfollow along, oh yeah, nerd out
for mammoth teddy tonelli pickthat teddy tonelli okay that
pick that guy.
Yeah, awesome rob, I appreciateit.
Man, dude, I can't wait to getout for a run with you and yeah
this was a great one, I reallyappreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:08:48):
Yeah, absolutely, that was a pleasure.
Thanks, man, super fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:08:52):
Hope you guys enjoyed that episode, really want to
thank Rob so much for coming on.
Lots of so much value therethat he provided and just some
really good write-ups and somereally good commentating and
banter.
Um guys, if you are interestedand want to learn more about Rob
, you could find him and supporthim in two different ways.
The first one is his hop on substack.
If you don't already give Rob afollow, you can subscribe to

(02:09:14):
him at Rob runs round.
That's at Rob runs around.
It's going to be located in theshow notes for a link that you
guys can subscribe to.
Um.
Like I said, he gives all kindsof really good commentary and
banter as well as race previewsjust really good stuff.
His 2025 OCC preview andfantasy picks is amazing.
He does one on the MatterhornOld Tracks Extreme series and

(02:09:36):
all he does write-ups just allkinds of really really good
stuff there.
So I think there's a ton ofvalue for you guys and
definitely hop on over,subscribe and give him some
kudos over there.
You can also find him onInstagram.
Give him a follow.
You can find him also atRobRunsRound Really appreciate
that.
He keeps these linear so hedoesn't have to change up the

(02:09:57):
names too much.
Yeah, that's RobRunsRound, andyou're going to be able to find
that in the show notes as well.
Guys, the best way you cansupport the podcast if you did
enjoy this episode as well asour preview episodes that we
brought you for Worlds is togive us a five-star rating and
review on Apple, spotify,youtube or wherever you do
consume your podcasts.
That would mean the world to usand that's how we can continue

(02:10:18):
to tell the stories of theseamazing athletes and keep
getting some coverage andfollowing along.
It's all good stuff there.
Last but not least, I do wantto thank our brand partner,
ultimate Direction.
Guys, hop on over to ultimatedirectioncom.
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(02:11:02):
Like I said, don't miss out.
There's all kinds of good stuffin there.
They I also have apparel, theyhave belts, that all the good
stuff, all the good stuff.
But, like I said, with theweather changing, you definitely
want to hook yourself up withsome insulated bottles, um, as
well as, uh, some some new vests.
Uh, definitely go for it.
And there's a quiver too.
The quiver is pretty dope.
Uh, I got a chance to test thatthing, uh, in the early testing

(02:11:26):
period and I thought it waspretty dope as well, and lots of
new belts and stuff to come.
So, guys, I hope you had agreat week following worlds.
Definitely tune in, definitelybe a mega fan.
We love the sport so much, andI hope you guys too.
So, thanks so much.
Thank you.

(02:11:55):
We'll see you next time.

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World Championships Race Preview & Analysis - Uphill, Mtn Classic & Short Trail with Robert Prosser

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}World Championships Race Preview & Analysis - Uphill, Mtn Classic & Short Trail with Robert Prosser