Safety isn’t a side project—it’s the system your team runs on. We sit down with martial arts champion and corporate coach Laura Armstrong to unpack trauma-informed training that actually works in the workplace.
Laura breaks down the window of tolerance—where people learn, collaborate, and think clearly—and what happens when we slip into hypo (freeze, shut down) or hyper (fight, agitation) states. From synchronized breathing to tactile grounding to micro-routines that create predictability, she shows how small, repeatable practices restore focus and dignity without forcing productivity.
We also shine a light on de-escalation as a daily leadership skill. Laura names subtle aggressor behaviors many managers miss—unsolicited promises, microaggressions disguised as jokes, “loan sharking” favors—and maps out how they push employees into survival mode. The fix is practical: name behaviors precisely, use culturally aware eye contact, square your stance, and deploy boundary scripts that remove guesswork. Pair that with explicit assurances of safety and no-judgment support, and you get a container strong enough for hard truths, clean repairs, and faster resolution.
If this conversation resonates, follow, like, or subscribe to the show, share it with a friend who leads people, and leave a quick review so others can find these tools too.
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Johnson (00:00):
Before we begin, a quick note for our listeners.
In today's conversation withLaura Armstrong, we explore
trauma-informed trainingpractices and the importance of
creating safe learningenvironments.
During this discussion, thereare mentions of traumatic
experiences, including violence,sexual assault, and other
distressing acts.
While these topics areaddressed from an educational
(00:21):
and professional standpoint,they may be triggering for some
listeners.
Please take care of yourselfwhile listening.
Pause the episode, return whenyou feel ready, or if it is
something that might create theconditions of trauma for you,
please skip this episode.
If you know someone who isstruggling or in a crisis, help
is available.
In the U.S., you can contactthe National Sexual Assault
(00:44):
Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or theNational Domestic Violence
Hotline at 1-800-799-7233.
For international listeners,please seek local resources or
trusted organizations in yourarea.
Now let's begin theconversation.
Welcome to this episode of theTalent Forge, where together
(01:06):
we're shaping workforcebehavior.
Today I'm joined by specialguest Laura Armstrong.
Welcome to the show, Laura.
Laura Armstrong (01:13):
Thanks so much.
I'm excited to be here and I'mlooking forward to our
conversation.
Jay Johnson (01:17):
Laura, you have an incredible history and uh a lot
of things that many of ourguests on the Talent Forge have
not necessarily accomplished,including some gold medals in
martial arts.
And now you're working to helppeople build better
relationships with money and aholistic approach.
So uh let's get to know youjust a little bit more.
Tell us your story.
How did you get to this space?
Laura Armstrong (01:39):
Well, you know, it's interesting because even
when I was younger, um, I alwaysloved sports.
And so um I was, I had won theI live in Toronto, Canada.
So I live in Canada, I had wonthe provincials for bodybuilding
and powerlifting.
And I was scouted by the IFBB,the International Federation
Bodybuilding.
And they told me that if that Ihad the means to be an
(02:04):
international competitor, earn alot of money, get a lot of
recognition, all that stuff.
And but they said you're gonnahave to take the drugs, right?
And back then, like in the olddays, because I'm 15 now, that
was a while ago.
Yeah, that that was like thenorm then.
And it was just a part of theculture.
And I was like, you know, I'mnot even 20 yet.
Um those things are notreversible.
So I didn't, I um I refused.
(02:26):
And then I thought, well, Iloved, I'm very active.
You know, I was always theoverweight kid in school,
though, always the fat kid.
And but I still lovedexercising, I loved moving, I
loved being around, and I alwaysloved trying to keep myself in
the best shape I could.
So I joined this continuingeducation class, you know, the
ones you can do at night, and Idid start taking Aikido through
(02:47):
that.
And so I go to this class,you're gonna laugh when I tell
you this.
I go to this class and theyteach you like the basics, you
know, the first class stances,you know, rolling, all this
stuff, right?
And I loved action movies, likeI loved anything martial arts,
anything to do with that.
So we get to the end of theclass, and and the um teacher's
like, and she's like four footnothing.
(03:08):
I'm like, you do not mess withthis woman.
She was my teacher for over 30years.
And she was like, Does anybodyhave any questions?
Jay Johnson (03:14):
I have a story to share on the same continuing.
Laura Armstrong (03:16):
You get me, yeah.
She's like, Well, does anybodyhave any questions?
Of course, my hand goes up, andI'm like, Well, when are we
getting to the kicking andpunching?
Because that's really what I'mhere for.
And I can just like see herlike internally rolling her
eyes, like, oh no, not anotherone, right?
But there was something therefor me, and I kept going.
And back then, you couldn'tjust join a dojo or a school,
(03:38):
you had to be invited.
And so I took several of theseiterations with her before I got
invited to her school, and andthe rest was history.
And then a few years into mytraining in Aikido, uh, we had a
guy come and teach weapons, andI had always been enamored of
weapons, and I joined his club,and that was more the
competitive side.
And that, you know, that'swhere I started doing martial
arts.
(03:58):
Um, and then yeah, won my firstgold medal in my late 20s.
Um, and so there's a good storyaround that.
I'm sure we'll get to thattoday.
Um, and then I worked incorporate for a couple decades
as a commodities trader, theonly woman on the trading desk.
Won two more golds in when Iwas 42, and I decided to retire
from fighting.
(04:18):
I coached the Canadian uhweapons team for probably two
decades, and I created probablyclose to 23 champions.
So I know what that formula is.
Um, but all through this, Istill was teaching a lot of
self-defense and empowerment.
And so, for that, things likeback then, this wasn't common
languaging, gender-basedviolence, de-escalation,
(04:40):
microaggressions, um,trauma-informed training, verbal
strategies, all those thingswere like foreign.
And companies were looking fora way to change the culture
within their employees and theirmanagement, and they just
didn't have the tools back then.
Now everybody talks about it,but a lot of the time, Jay, they
don't know what they're saying.
(05:01):
And so I think the fact thatyou have this podcast that
brings on vetted experts is justso key to switching that
culture around.
Jay Johnson (05:09):
Well, thank you for that.
And I I got a quick story foryou.
So the first time that I tookin a keto, and a lot of the
audience may not know this, butI did mix martial arts for a
long time.
Right.
And I joined a keto class whileI was at Wayne State
University.
And the instructor was, I don'tknow, I would say late 60s,
early 70s, and just kind of asmall, frail guy.
(05:30):
And I was thinking to myself,like, they're the scariest.
He tossed me around like aragdot.
And I I was a hockey player, Iwas I was in great shape.
Doesn't matter.
Literally just whooped my ass.
Like when you said that Iimmediately thought of sensei
and was just like, oh, Iremembered my favorite words was
(05:52):
Kaikol Shario, which was classis ended.
Thank God I just got whooped.
Laura Armstrong (05:58):
Or posted down was the other one I got.
Because they just had no morepatience for me.
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (06:03):
Well, let's dig into this because I think it is
important.
And and you definitely bring upa great point about for so long
uh and and still to this day, Ithink that there's a lot of
information out there.
So uh, you know, with thebackground in behavioral
science, I I get really kind ofuh touchy when I see some of the
different things that arehappening.
(06:23):
And knowing your background,uh, knowing your background, I'd
love to dig into thistrauma-informed training,
because a lot of the people thatare on uh listening to this
podcast may not be familiar withit.
Could you help us get a betterunderstanding of what you mean
when you say trauma-informedtraining and what does that look
like in the corporate world?
Laura Armstrong (06:44):
Sure.
So to first to to before weeven talk about the tr the
training, it's how to recognizeit, right?
And so um there's two, there'sa portal of safety or the window
of tolerance where we callwhere most people thrive, where
that's their everyday life,right?
And then there is events thathappen to us as human beings,
(07:06):
and a lot of the time why wemove out of that portal of
safety is because our brain andour body cannot process.
And so it goes into like acoping mechanism, right?
So it usually goes one of twoways.
So first it can go into hypo,okay, hypoactiveness.
(07:26):
So that means that people startto freeze, they start to shut
down, they start to close off,um, uh, all sorts of like
anxiety, depression, all ofthose are all side effects of
that hypo, right?
Um, and those are veryrecognizable symptoms um when
it's not someone's normalbehavior.
If it's their normal behavior,they've probably been in it for
(07:49):
a very long time.
Okay.
Um the other one is hyper.
And so, like we all know whathyperactive is.
It's the same thing.
It's when it's a copingmechanism.
So people are hyperactive, theytalk a lot, they talk about a
lot of details, um, they theyit's you know that fight, flight
(08:09):
or freeze.
So they go into the fight andthe and and you know, they they
want to engage at an in an angryor not angry way, it doesn't
matter.
They want to engage at a at areally hyper level, right?
Um, and so people like that,people who are in that state,
it's it's more visible becauseit's more noticeable than you
(08:30):
notice the person who's shuttingdown.
It's just the way human beingswork when they notice things.
And so once you recognize thesymptoms, that's the first key,
right?
Now, understanding how to notonly bring people out of it, but
keep them out of it is wherethe key in the training is,
right?
So it works like a three stepstep process.
(08:51):
So knowing what it is, um, andwhen they're when they're out of
that portal of safety, how tobring them back in.
And then the third is how tokeep them there.
And so how to bring them backin for the hypo person who's
quiet, you need them to move.
So physical movement, but allof these things can be done
through somatic exercises,things like breathing,
(09:13):
breathing, things like feelinggrounding.
For the hypo person, they needto move, they need to feel
connected to their body again.
Um, and so what happens whenthey connect to their body,
their brain kicks in.
It's just automatic because ourbrains are primal, right?
They're really the cavemanbrain.
That's really what it is, eventhough we like to think we're
super intelligent beings, right?
We have those fight or flights.
That's just how our brainworks.
(09:34):
And so for trauma-informedtraining for that is you need to
work with that personbreathing, get them more
grounded, get them in moreengaged on a physical, mental,
emotional level, and bring themback into that portal of safety.
And that's literally how theystay there, so that they feel
inclusive, they feel safe.
That's a key word here forboth.
Safe.
Um, they feel like they'rebeing engaged and valued because
(09:58):
a lot of the time in theemployee space, those four
things don't exist for a lot ofpeople, and they're just
managing being there every day.
Jay Johnson (10:05):
For the hyper person, Laura, let me let me
pause you there before you go tothe hyper, because you know,
this is obviously something thatwe see this, and you know,
having having had a lot ofconversations with people that
are either experiencing somelevel of uh depression or some
level of sort of uh, you know,even just call it burnout.
(10:26):
You know, we we often conflateburnout, depression, resentment,
and all of these otherdifferent monikers.
Um, but for somebody that'sexperiencing that, in so many
cases, one of the ways that I'veheard it communicated back is I
just, you know, I'm hungry, butI I can't even muster the
energy to get up and get off thecouch to go get something to
(10:47):
eat.
Or I know that I have to go towork and literally I call in
today because I just don't feellike I have the energy to move.
So somebody that's in this hypospace, how do you help them,
you know, how do you help themmuster the energy when that
energy doesn't feel like it'saccessible or that they
(11:07):
internally don't have it?
Because you're absolutelyright.
I think it was uh Dr.
Gaber Mate, who's a fellowCanadian, that talks about, you
know, movement being one ofthose antidotes to some of the
the normalities of being stuckor being sitting down or just
you know, sort of not havingthat.
How do we get them to take thatfirst step?
Laura Armstrong (11:27):
Yeah, so there's three uh three-pronged
approach.
The first is um create newhabits for them.
Okay.
So every day they do this, theydo their breathing exercises,
every day they take afive-minute walk.
So get them in the habit of theroutine because the routine
will keep them in the portal ofsafety because it's something
that that's predictable for themand it makes them feel safe.
(11:48):
Okay, as soon as they feelsafe, they're gonna be more
comfortable.
So that's number one.
Jay Johnson (11:52):
And then it flow a little bit more once.
Laura Armstrong (11:55):
Yes, that allows everything that kind of
starts the engine running.
So they get the you know,they're feeling comfortable.
Um, the second isconversations, is they've
probably forgotten what bringsthem joy.
And I know this sounds a bitwoo-woo, but what do they want?
Because the most insightfulconversation I had when I was at
the lowest point when I workedin corporate was what's gonna
(12:17):
make you happy, Laura?
And even if I didn't know, Iknew what didn't make me happy.
So you can always start there.
So what would you like fromyour job?
Like what do you feel that youwould love to do the most?
Like what what is it thatbrings you joy about your job
and what don't you like?
Right.
And so how you can mitigatethose things and mix them
together so that they can have abetter experience, but no, they
(12:40):
still have to get their jobdone.
Maybe it's someone bullyingthem and they never said
anything.
Jay Johnson (12:45):
Yeah, right.
Laura Armstrong (12:46):
And so until they feel safe, they're not
going to say anything.
Yeah.
So you as the employer need tocreate the container of safety.
I'm gonna talk about that in aminute.
The third thing is to know thatum until they want to do it,
you can't do anything.
And that's just the truth.
All you can do is provide themeans for them.
(13:08):
So the the question I would askthen is like, do you want to
change this?
Jay Johnson (13:13):
Yeah.
Laura Armstrong (13:13):
And so they yeah.
Jay Johnson (13:15):
I I think that's such a, you know, that's such an
interesting, it's such aninteresting perspective because,
you know, I think cognitively,it ultimately we want to change
it or people want to change it,but then it's almost like this
little voice inside that keepsthem from saying You can't do
that.
Exactly.
You know, you can't do that, orchange is scary.
Like we at least know wherewe're at right now.
(13:37):
And I I see that with a lot ofI see that with a lot of people
who have experienced trauma.
One of the questions that I'veasked people in the past is uh
you've experienced trauma,you're working through this,
you're doing the therapy, you'redoing the conversations, you're
doing this.
What does healed look like toyou?
Laura Armstrong (13:56):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (13:57):
And it was, you know, because when you talk
about post-traumaticpost-traumatic stress, you know,
there's a there's a shift inthe industry to post-traumatic
stress injury because it's not adisorder, it's not something
you're born with, but it'ssomething that comes from an
injury of trauma, i.e., anexternal circumstance.
Exactly.
You know, so what does healedlook like?
(14:18):
And very interesting becausewhen I've asked this question,
most people that haveexperienced some kind of trauma,
they they find that verydifficult to answer.
They don't know what healedlooks like.
And what that tells me is theydon't have a goal set for how
they operate, what they looklike, what their energy level
(14:38):
is.
Like it's not a very definedaspect.
So when you're speaking tothis, how do you maybe help them
see the difference between whatdoes injured look like and what
does healed look like?
Laura Armstrong (14:52):
So for them, it could be the same thing.
So there's two things you canprovide.
So, first of all, is theroutine.
The routine will get theircognitive brain um creating new
neurosynapsis pathways.
And so that uh automaticallywill help them.
The second thing, and I thinkwhat's so important is um
(15:12):
there's two things here.
The first is they don't feelsupported, they can say they do,
but they really don't.
So have you created a strongenough for container for them to
feel safe?
I keep saying this, but that'sreally the key word here because
they're not gonna go anywhereunless they feel safe.
Right.
Jay Johnson (15:27):
They're gonna be stuck in a sympathetic nervous
system and just back.
Laura Armstrong (15:31):
And so you need to provide that for them.
The third would be no judgment,because even though it's
automatic for you to say to knowyou don't judge, they need to
hear it.
Right.
And so, and then this the nextthing I would do would be to
give them knowledge, to givethem verbal strategies or
physical strategies or whateverit is that they need so that
(15:51):
they have tools so that they canimplement things and move out
of that space.
Because right now they don'tfeel like they're trapped, they
don't have anything, they'restuck, right?
And so using those four thingscan actually help bring them,
but it has to be the rightsupport system and they have to
feel safe or they're just notgoing to do it.
Both in hypo and high hyper,same thing.
Jay Johnson (16:12):
Well, and let's move to the hyper right now,
because we we do see a lot ofhyperactivity.
I think that you know, if youlook at the if you look at the
number of people that have beenclinically diagnosed with ADHD,
and I'm not just talking aboutself-diagnosis, but I'm even
talking about clinicaldiagnoses.
Right.
You know, we see a rise inthis.
And there's a number ofdifferent, you know,
(16:33):
postulations and theories of whythat's occurring.
Um, but ultimately, when itcomes down to it, I it was Gaber
Mate who again had suggestedI've never met somebody with
ADHD with like a realdebilitating ADHD, because I
think that everybody hasattention challenges at
different points in time, myselfincluded.
Um, I've never met somebodywith ADHD, true like
(16:57):
debilitating ADHD, can't hold ajob, can't stay in a position or
anything else that doesn't havesome level of trauma that comes
along with it.
Laura Armstrong (17:07):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (17:07):
So the fact that you're into the hyperactivity
makes a lot of sense.
So let's let's dig into that.
Laura Armstrong (17:12):
Yeah.
So first of all, I just want tosay I'm not a medical doctor.
I'm I'm just I'm giving you myperspective from my learned
experience.
Like I've taught in everythingfrom women's prisons to men's
halfway houses.
I've taught in um high impact,high violent areas in Israel.
So like I've I've taught umempowerment self-defense all
(17:35):
over the world in different, youknow, in different areas.
Like I remember one morningteaching 13-year-old girls about
rape.
And then at the night, I'm onthe other side of Israel
teaching women of the nightabout how to survive the night,
right?
And so I've had to reallystretch my learning and be in
all sorts of different umpersonalities and and and things
(17:59):
that people have gone throughto actually learn these things.
And so I just want to be clearabout that.
So I'm only giving you mylearned experience.
So for and I and I do a lot oftraining and studying in this
because I think I'm a lifelonglearner.
So the other part about thehyper that I think is so
interesting is I have theattention span of an at.
But the fact of the matter isI've learned to manage it so
(18:21):
that I can stay focused.
And so when someone goes fromthat portal of safety into
hyper, something set them offthat edge.
Right.
And so whatever it was, itdoesn't matter.
You need to bring them backinto that portal.
So they're gonna be actingjittery, hyper, possibly
violent, aggressive, verbal,physical, mental, whatever it
(18:42):
is.
So a lot of the time forsomeone like that, they just
need to ground down.
So uh the somatic breathing issuper, super important for this.
Even if you sit with themwithin three breaths and you do
it together, you willsynchronize your breathing right
away.
They will start to calm down.
Um, so their nervous systemcalms down, then they start to
feel safe.
It's just like the same thingwith people in hypo.
(19:03):
And so the other thing I dowith people who are in the hyper
state is I give them groundingexercises.
So feel your feet on the floor,hold a cold cloth.
And then these seem like simplethings, but these are tactile
things that actually connectwith the brain.
And so then the neural synapsesconnects to the nervous system
and says, Oh, I can relax now,right?
(19:24):
Like I don't need to be in thatstate.
One idea is growing roots outof your feet and picturing them
going down into the earth, intothe core of the earth, and like
really grounding the body in,right?
Um, I had one lady I wasworking with, and she had um,
she was in my full contactself-defense class, and she had
been someone had attempted tokill her with a knife.
(19:44):
And so it came out in theclass, and she was sitting
huddled in a ball like this andshaking and sobbing, right?
And and I just sat there withher, and all she wanted to do
was touch the side of my arm.
That's all she needed becauseshe couldn't take anymore.
And so we did the breathing, webrought her back into her body,
and she was able to processeverything because you're
keeping that in your body,that's not good, right?
(20:04):
You got to get rid of thattrauma, you gotta get rid of
that stuff.
And so we were able to bringher back into her body, and she
was able to move forward.
Now she teaches ESD andprograms all over the world,
like she's an amazing humanbeing.
So these things of being inhypo and hyper, they are not
permanent, right?
Everyone thinks PTSD is acurse.
It's not.
(20:25):
So the thing is it's temporaryand you can change it.
You just need to be with theright people with the right
training who can hold thecontainer for you so you feel
safe about not just processing,but bringing yourself back into
the portal of safety.
And they and they need to knowhow to do that.
Jay Johnson (20:40):
Yeah.
No, and I think that's superpowerful because I I I know some
people who have who've gonethrough um, you know, different
traumatic events that havecreated conditions for
post-traumatic stress injury.
And I will tell you, you know,a lot of times I think that they
they believe that there is noout, that there is nothing or
(21:00):
anything else.
And I've watched uh several ofthem go through a series of
different programs, working witha licensed psychologist,
working with um differentaspects that have really helped
them elevate and talking to themafterwards, you know,
definitely give some insights oflike, yeah, when you're sitting
in the cave and all you see isdark, you don't see the light or
(21:21):
anything else until youactually start doing some of the
things that you need to do tobe able to process and resolve
and to heal and to understandand to create the conditions of
connection again, because that'sone of the things that
ultimately ends up gettingdropped.
So, you know, one of thethings, one of the things that
uh that I find extremelyinteresting is your applications
(21:43):
of some of your knowledge andexperience to the de-escalation
aspect, right?
In the workplace right now, weand I I think, you know, to kind
of round this out for theleaders, managers, HR, the first
step is recognizing hypo, youknow, hypoactiveness versus
hyperactiveness, recognizingthat there may be some level of
(22:04):
challenge that is going on.
And the next step is, you know,stepping in and creating that
safe space.
So let's talk about let's talkabout the you know, what happens
when that safe space is notmet.
And maybe we have somedifferent tension, conflict,
hopefully not violence, but welive in this, we live in an
environment right now wheretriggers are uh triggers are
(22:27):
everywhere.
And you know, uh people are notalways as kind to each other as
as I advocate for them to be.
Um so let's talk about thisde-escalation aspect.
And I think that you're gonnaprovide a really interesting
perspective on this.
Talk to me about what thatlooks like right now in your
world.
Laura Armstrong (22:44):
Sure.
So there's a couple pieces tothat.
So, first of all, in themanagement area, when I train
managers, I also train them onaggressor behaviors because a
lot of them are unaware thatthey're doing it, it's just
their normal behavior.
And it's not a they're notintentionally doing it, but it's
how they don't understand whypeople are reacting that way.
(23:05):
So it's also having theawareness around that.
That's the first step.
And also um the level uppingtheir level of emotional
intelligence.
So understanding that empathyis the number one thing that
they should be concerned withmore than the bottom line, more
than with um numbers, more thanwith business.
(23:25):
It should be people first,because people are what is going
to create your culture and yourcompany, and that is what
people look at first now.
It's not numbers anymore.
Jay Johnson (23:34):
I mean, it's great to get bought out and all that,
but we need that, but it thatthat comes after the people
because it's the people thatultimately get us to that.
Correct.
So let me ask you this questionbecause we can think about you
know, maybe aggressive behaviorsas somebody um glaring at you
or somebody pounding their fiston the table, or somebody
yelling, and all of those veryum obvious direct aggressive
(23:58):
behaviors.
But help the audience maybewhat are some of those smaller
aggressive behaviors that couldbe signs that are on.
Laura Armstrong (24:07):
Sure.
Yeah.
So there's a lot.
So there's seven um sevenstrategies that aggressors use.
And so it could be things likeunsolicited promise.
So if you do this for me, if Ido this for you, you do this for
me.
Jay Johnson (24:22):
Okay.
Laura Armstrong (24:22):
Seemingly innocent, but it's a
manipulation, right?
Microaggressions.
Oh, you're probably right.
Um, that's the best you can do.
Or you, oh, you drive that car.
Jay Johnson (24:35):
Sure.
Right.
Laura Armstrong (24:36):
Oh, that's your that's your degree.
Right.
So all these are you like, butthey're normal speak, like they
they're in the in the I want tosay the old days, but that was
never like that was the norm.
That was the, you know, and sothis has pervaded our workforce,
right?
And so we the awareness aroundthese things are really key.
Um, you know, another good oneis called loan sharking, where
(24:57):
like um, so um, I did this foryou, so now you have to do this
for me, right?
And so there's this thisperceived authority that um that
managers have that theiremployees must accede to this if
they want to get further, ifthey want to keep their job, if
they, you know, want to getpaid, right?
(25:18):
And so then there's that levelof fear and control that the
person down here doesn't knowhow to deal with because they're
like, okay, I'm stuck here.
I got to do this to earn mymoney, right?
Um the good thing is, and Ijust gave you a couple of
examples because we have limitedtime today, but the good thing
is that there are strategiesthat we can use, um, that
employees can use and bothmanagement can use um to bring
(25:40):
ourselves back into that portalwhere everyone's having a
resolution, right?
And they're and and everybody'sboundaries are being respected.
Because I feel like a lot oftimes people talk about
boundaries, but they don'treally know what it means.
Um, a boundary is a safe pointfor you.
Like really, it's the point ofwhere you don't want things to
crash.
It's that really that simple.
So when you're when you'rethinking of verbal strategies um
(26:04):
for people, um, a lot of thetime some of the cues that you
need are there are things likemaking eye contact, saying what
you mean.
Because that there's a lot ofdisconnect there.
Well, I don't like when you dothat.
Well, do what?
Right?
Like I don't like when youspeak to me that way and say
(26:24):
this.
Now that person has no, there'sno guesswork, no wiggle room,
yeah.
There's no wiggle room, right?
Uh having um your body squaredup to them because if you do it
like this, and I'm like, well,you know, I'm not feeling, you
know, no, it's this, right?
You're squared, you mean whatyou say, and there's no
should've, could have, would've.
(26:44):
Now, these are maybeuncharacteristic things that you
don't normally do.
You don't have to do them allat once because people are like,
what the hell, right?
But you can try one of them,like making eye contact or being
direct about what you want tosay, right?
And don't look away, do nothave shifty eyes.
So all of these cues, there'sprobably about 10 basic ones
that we teach, right?
(27:05):
Um, give you not only thepresence to set your boundary,
but also um give you theconfidence to step in and and
and grow from there and not feellike you're being pushed down
or trapped or you know, and thisgoes on a management level as
well.
Jay Johnson (27:23):
So, Laura, let me ask, let me ask this question.
Okay.
I because I know what somebodyin the audience could be
thinking right now.
They could be thinking, easyfor you to say, Laura, you're a
bodybuilder, you're a badass inmartial arts, you know, you
you've you've conquered fear,you've stood in the face of
adversity.
(27:43):
Easy for you to say.
How do you help somebody that'smaybe that doesn't have that
that natural confidence or thatbuilt-in confidence that either
you've developed, had a littlebit of, whatever that looks
like.
But some people just don't havethat sense of confidence or
authority in themselves.
And you know, something assimple as eye contact, it's like
(28:05):
in and I know this just fromthe study of ethology in the
animal kingdom, eye contact iscan be considered aggression.
And so me making eye contactand keeping eye contact with you
without turning down orlowering my face could be an
escalation gesture.
So some may not necessarily seethat as a defensive posture,
(28:27):
like more of a resistancestrategy as opposed to it being
a more of an aggressivestrategy.
How would you help coach themtowards that confidence of being
able to say, hey, yeah, yeah,yeah, two things there.
Laura Armstrong (28:40):
So, first of all, a great comment about the
eye contact.
Um, that is also a culturalthing.
So if your culture is not usedto that and you're in a
corporate environment incorporate America, corporate
North America, you gotta haveeye contact because that's how
you get respect.
Okay.
And that's how the hierarchy incorporate America works.
(29:01):
Because they want to know thatyou're engaged, that you hear
them, that you're listening, andthat you acknowledge that.
And they do that through a lotof eye contact.
So they will respect that.
But if I'm teaching a class inAfrica and I'm in a different
company, like that is nothappening.
They will look down.
That is a that is a sign ofaggression or um rudeness when
(29:22):
you look in someone's eyes.
So you need to know thecultural impact.
And that's why we asinstructors, we go around
teaching this because it'simportant to know that.
So for the person who doesn'tfeel they have a voice, so what
I recommend is we do exercisesin our classes where it's the
number one thing, Jay, that Ifind that people struggle with
is using their voice becausethey're afraid to they're afraid
(29:43):
to make waves, they don't wantto be heard or cause trouble.
Um, you know, they don't wantto everybody looking at them.
We teach people to use theirvoice for three reasons.
First, it brings ear witnesses,not just eyewitnesses, because
if other people People arehearing what's going on, then
that's important to know thatyou're not allowed, that you
(30:04):
have that support there.
The second is to breathe.
And the third is to generatepower.
So when people feel they can'tuse their voice, what we tell
them is we do differentexercises with them in our
classes.
So for instance, we tell themto say the alphabet from A to Z.
A, you start out reallyquietly, so you can barely hear.
By Z, you're yelling as loud asyou can.
(30:25):
Because why people don't usetheir voice a lot of the time is
A, they've probably beentraumatized or uh chastised or
told, you know, to keep thingsquiet.
Um and so there's that fear,right?
And so the other piece of thatI'd like to add in before we
finish up here is it's reallyimportant that people do
affirmations.
(30:46):
Do you talk about that on yourshow?
Jay Johnson (30:48):
Um we have uh uh past guests has mentioned
affirmations, but go ahead anddig into it.
Laura Armstrong (30:53):
Yeah, I think it's important because
affirmations aren't just somewoo-woo thing you do every day.
When you do affirmations, itstarts to create a habit and
after time it starts to create aritual.
And when that ritual starts,then it starts to manifest or
show up.
So when you do affirmations, itactually changes the
neurosynapsis in your brain.
(31:14):
And so these things start toshow up in your life.
And so that that has to do withthe reticulator activating
system in your brain.
And so that's the system wherelet's say I say to you, uh, Jay,
I need to see an elephanttomorrow.
All of a sudden I'm seeingelephants everywhere, right?
Jay Johnson (31:30):
You you know how that works, right?
Yeah, it's the buying a car andthen all of a sudden you see
your car everywhere.
Laura Armstrong (31:35):
And this, this is it, that's exactly it.
So we're starting to get ourreticulator activating system
working for us.
Right?
I am a powerful person whotakes back my power from others
and I own who I am.
I'm confident, I'm comfortable,and things show up for me with
ease.
Like whatever your affirmationis, do them every morning, look
(31:56):
in the mirror.
It can be difficult at first,um, but what these start to do
is they start to build yourconfidence, confidence almost
unconsciously, um, so that allof a sudden you're sitting
straighter, you're speaking upmore.
So all of these habits,including the breathing, all the
somatic thing, this is just onemore tool in your toolbox that
you can use.
Jay Johnson (32:17):
Yeah, Dr.
Allen Langer talks a lot aboutthat and sort of the like the
positive mental framing, becausethe mind follows the body, the
body follows the mind.
When we say something positive,we look for something positive.
When we say something negative,the body reacts and looks for
something negative.
So I love that as a tactic totake away from here.
Laura Armstrong (32:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Jay Johnson (32:36):
Laura, uh, this has been a fascinating
conversation.
I know we could probably talkfor hours, but given our time,
if the audience wanted to get intouch with you, how would they
reach out?
Laura Armstrong (32:46):
Sure.
You can reach out to me onLinkedIn.
So just look look for me.
Um, and uh you can also uhcheck me out on my website,
wealthmasterysystems.com.
Uh, and I'm happy to speak withany of you.
Uh, I also, if it's okay, I Ialso love to offer people to
spend time with me and hear moreabout them and give them more
tools.
Is that okay, Jay?
Jay Johnson (33:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Armstrong (33:07):
So they could just simply go to wealthstrategy
with Laura.com and book sometime on my calendar, and I'd be
happy to speak with them.
Jay Johnson (33:14):
Amazing.
Well, thank you, Laura.
I really appreciate hearingyour perspectives.
And it's definitely, you know,you've got such a rich history
and an exciting story.
Definitely want to learn moreabout that.
So we'll we'll look to have youback and maybe talk about some
of the other aspects ofworkplace behavior.
But for now, thank you so muchfor being here and sharing your
(33:35):
uh sharing your knowledge, yourexperience, and your wisdom.
Laura Armstrong (33:38):
Thanks so much for having me.
Jay Johnson (33:40):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where together we're shaping
workforce behavior.
Before we begin, a quick note for our listeners.
In today's conversation withLaura Armstrong, we explore
trauma-informed trainingpractices and the importance of
creating safe learningenvironments.
During this discussion, thereare mentions of traumatic
experiences, including violence,sexual assault, and other
distressing acts.
While these topics areaddressed from an educational
(00:21):
and professional standpoint,they may be triggering for some
listeners.
Please take care of yourselfwhile listening.
Pause the episode, return whenyou feel ready, or if it is
something that might create theconditions of trauma for you,
please skip this episode.
If you know someone who isstruggling or in a crisis, help
is available.
In the U.S., you can contactthe National Sexual Assault
(00:44):
Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or theNational Domestic Violence
Hotline at 1-800-799-7233.
For international listeners,please seek local resources or
trusted organizations in yourarea.
Now let's begin theconversation.
Welcome to this episode of theTalent Forge, where together
(01:06):
we're shaping workforcebehavior.
Today I'm joined by specialguest Laura Armstrong.
Welcome to the show, Laura.
Laura Armstrong (01:13):
Thanks so much.
I'm excited to be here and I'mlooking forward to our
conversation.
Jay Johnson (01:17):
Laura, you have an incredible history and uh a lot
of things that many of ourguests on the Talent Forge have
not necessarily accomplished,including some gold medals in
martial arts.
And now you're working to helppeople build better
relationships with money and aholistic approach.
So uh let's get to know youjust a little bit more.
Tell us your story.
How did you get to this space?
Laura Armstrong (01:39):
Well, you know, it's interesting because even
when I was younger, um, I alwaysloved sports.
And so um I was, I had won theI live in Toronto, Canada.
So I live in Canada, I had wonthe provincials for bodybuilding
and powerlifting.
And I was scouted by the IFBB,the International Federation
Bodybuilding.
And they told me that if that Ihad the means to be an
(02:04):
international competitor, earn alot of money, get a lot of
recognition, all that stuff.
And but they said you're gonnahave to take the drugs, right?
And back then, like in the olddays, because I'm 15 now, that
was a while ago.
Yeah, that that was like thenorm then.
And it was just a part of theculture.
And I was like, you know, I'mnot even 20 yet.
Um those things are notreversible.
So I didn't, I um I refused.
(02:26):
And then I thought, well, Iloved, I'm very active.
You know, I was always theoverweight kid in school,
though, always the fat kid.
And but I still lovedexercising, I loved moving, I
loved being around, and I alwaysloved trying to keep myself in
the best shape I could.
So I joined this continuingeducation class, you know, the
ones you can do at night, and Idid start taking Aikido through
(02:47):
that.
And so I go to this class,you're gonna laugh when I tell
you this.
I go to this class and theyteach you like the basics, you
know, the first class stances,you know, rolling, all this
stuff, right?
And I loved action movies, likeI loved anything martial arts,
anything to do with that.
So we get to the end of theclass, and and the um teacher's
like, and she's like four footnothing.
(03:08):
I'm like, you do not mess withthis woman.
She was my teacher for over 30years.
And she was like, Does anybodyhave any questions?
Jay Johnson (03:14):
I have a story to share on the same continuing.
Laura Armstrong (03:16):
You get me, yeah.
She's like, Well, does anybodyhave any questions?
Of course, my hand goes up, andI'm like, Well, when are we
getting to the kicking andpunching?
Because that's really what I'mhere for.
And I can just like see herlike internally rolling her
eyes, like, oh no, not anotherone, right?
But there was something therefor me, and I kept going.
And back then, you couldn'tjust join a dojo or a school,
(03:38):
you had to be invited.
And so I took several of theseiterations with her before I got
invited to her school, and andthe rest was history.
And then a few years into mytraining in Aikido, uh, we had a
guy come and teach weapons, andI had always been enamored of
weapons, and I joined his club,and that was more the
competitive side.
And that, you know, that'swhere I started doing martial
arts.
(03:58):
Um, and then yeah, won my firstgold medal in my late 20s.
Um, and so there's a good storyaround that.
I'm sure we'll get to thattoday.
Um, and then I worked incorporate for a couple decades
as a commodities trader, theonly woman on the trading desk.
Won two more golds in when Iwas 42, and I decided to retire
from fighting.
(04:18):
I coached the Canadian uhweapons team for probably two
decades, and I created probablyclose to 23 champions.
So I know what that formula is.
Um, but all through this, Istill was teaching a lot of
self-defense and empowerment.
And so, for that, things likeback then, this wasn't common
languaging, gender-basedviolence, de-escalation,
(04:40):
microaggressions, um,trauma-informed training, verbal
strategies, all those thingswere like foreign.
And companies were looking fora way to change the culture
within their employees and theirmanagement, and they just
didn't have the tools back then.
Now everybody talks about it,but a lot of the time, Jay, they
don't know what they're saying.
(05:01):
And so I think the fact thatyou have this podcast that
brings on vetted experts is justso key to switching that
culture around.
Jay Johnson (05:09):
Well, thank you for that.
And I I got a quick story foryou.
So the first time that I tookin a keto, and a lot of the
audience may not know this, butI did mix martial arts for a
long time.
Right.
And I joined a keto class whileI was at Wayne State
University.
And the instructor was, I don'tknow, I would say late 60s,
early 70s, and just kind of asmall, frail guy.
(05:30):
And I was thinking to myself,like, they're the scariest.
He tossed me around like aragdot.
And I I was a hockey player, Iwas I was in great shape.
Doesn't matter.
Literally just whooped my ass.
Like when you said that Iimmediately thought of sensei
and was just like, oh, Iremembered my favorite words was
(05:52):
Kaikol Shario, which was classis ended.
Thank God I just got whooped.
Laura Armstrong (05:58):
Or posted down was the other one I got.
Because they just had no morepatience for me.
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (06:03):
Well, let's dig into this because I think it is
important.
And and you definitely bring upa great point about for so long
uh and and still to this day, Ithink that there's a lot of
information out there.
So uh, you know, with thebackground in behavioral
science, I I get really kind ofuh touchy when I see some of the
different things that arehappening.
(06:23):
And knowing your background,uh, knowing your background, I'd
love to dig into thistrauma-informed training,
because a lot of the people thatare on uh listening to this
podcast may not be familiar withit.
Could you help us get a betterunderstanding of what you mean
when you say trauma-informedtraining and what does that look
like in the corporate world?
Laura Armstrong (06:44):
Sure.
So to first to to before weeven talk about the tr the
training, it's how to recognizeit, right?
And so um there's two, there'sa portal of safety or the window
of tolerance where we callwhere most people thrive, where
that's their everyday life,right?
And then there is events thathappen to us as human beings,
(07:06):
and a lot of the time why wemove out of that portal of
safety is because our brain andour body cannot process.
And so it goes into like acoping mechanism, right?
So it usually goes one of twoways.
So first it can go into hypo,okay, hypoactiveness.
(07:26):
So that means that people startto freeze, they start to shut
down, they start to close off,um, uh, all sorts of like
anxiety, depression, all ofthose are all side effects of
that hypo, right?
Um, and those are veryrecognizable symptoms um when
it's not someone's normalbehavior.
If it's their normal behavior,they've probably been in it for
(07:49):
a very long time.
Okay.
Um the other one is hyper.
And so, like we all know whathyperactive is.
It's the same thing.
It's when it's a copingmechanism.
So people are hyperactive, theytalk a lot, they talk about a
lot of details, um, they theyit's you know that fight, flight
(08:09):
or freeze.
So they go into the fight andthe and and you know, they they
want to engage at an in an angryor not angry way, it doesn't
matter.
They want to engage at a at areally hyper level, right?
Um, and so people like that,people who are in that state,
it's it's more visible becauseit's more noticeable than you
(08:30):
notice the person who's shuttingdown.
It's just the way human beingswork when they notice things.
And so once you recognize thesymptoms, that's the first key,
right?
Now, understanding how to notonly bring people out of it, but
keep them out of it is wherethe key in the training is,
right?
So it works like a three stepstep process.
(08:51):
So knowing what it is, um, andwhen they're when they're out of
that portal of safety, how tobring them back in.
And then the third is how tokeep them there.
And so how to bring them backin for the hypo person who's
quiet, you need them to move.
So physical movement, but allof these things can be done
through somatic exercises,things like breathing,
(09:13):
breathing, things like feelinggrounding.
For the hypo person, they needto move, they need to feel
connected to their body again.
Um, and so what happens whenthey connect to their body,
their brain kicks in.
It's just automatic because ourbrains are primal, right?
They're really the cavemanbrain.
That's really what it is, eventhough we like to think we're
super intelligent beings, right?
We have those fight or flights.
That's just how our brainworks.
(09:34):
And so for trauma-informedtraining for that is you need to
work with that personbreathing, get them more
grounded, get them in moreengaged on a physical, mental,
emotional level, and bring themback into that portal of safety.
And that's literally how theystay there, so that they feel
inclusive, they feel safe.
That's a key word here forboth.
Safe.
Um, they feel like they'rebeing engaged and valued because
(09:58):
a lot of the time in theemployee space, those four
things don't exist for a lot ofpeople, and they're just
managing being there every day.
Jay Johnson (10:05):
For the hyper person, Laura, let me let me
pause you there before you go tothe hyper, because you know,
this is obviously something thatwe see this, and you know,
having having had a lot ofconversations with people that
are either experiencing somelevel of uh depression or some
level of sort of uh, you know,even just call it burnout.
(10:26):
You know, we we often conflateburnout, depression, resentment,
and all of these otherdifferent monikers.
Um, but for somebody that'sexperiencing that, in so many
cases, one of the ways that I'veheard it communicated back is I
just, you know, I'm hungry, butI I can't even muster the
energy to get up and get off thecouch to go get something to
(10:47):
eat.
Or I know that I have to go towork and literally I call in
today because I just don't feellike I have the energy to move.
So somebody that's in this hypospace, how do you help them,
you know, how do you help themmuster the energy when that
energy doesn't feel like it'saccessible or that they
(11:07):
internally don't have it?
Because you're absolutelyright.
I think it was uh Dr.
Gaber Mate, who's a fellowCanadian, that talks about, you
know, movement being one ofthose antidotes to some of the
the normalities of being stuckor being sitting down or just
you know, sort of not havingthat.
How do we get them to take thatfirst step?
Laura Armstrong (11:27):
Yeah, so there's three uh three-pronged
approach.
The first is um create newhabits for them.
Okay.
So every day they do this, theydo their breathing exercises,
every day they take afive-minute walk.
So get them in the habit of theroutine because the routine
will keep them in the portal ofsafety because it's something
that that's predictable for themand it makes them feel safe.
(11:48):
Okay, as soon as they feelsafe, they're gonna be more
comfortable.
So that's number one.
Jay Johnson (11:52):
And then it flow a little bit more once.
Laura Armstrong (11:55):
Yes, that allows everything that kind of
starts the engine running.
So they get the you know,they're feeling comfortable.
Um, the second isconversations, is they've
probably forgotten what bringsthem joy.
And I know this sounds a bitwoo-woo, but what do they want?
Because the most insightfulconversation I had when I was at
the lowest point when I workedin corporate was what's gonna
(12:17):
make you happy, Laura?
And even if I didn't know, Iknew what didn't make me happy.
So you can always start there.
So what would you like fromyour job?
Like what do you feel that youwould love to do the most?
Like what what is it thatbrings you joy about your job
and what don't you like?
Right.
And so how you can mitigatethose things and mix them
together so that they can have abetter experience, but no, they
(12:40):
still have to get their jobdone.
Maybe it's someone bullyingthem and they never said
anything.
Jay Johnson (12:45):
Yeah, right.
Laura Armstrong (12:46):
And so until they feel safe, they're not
going to say anything.
Yeah.
So you as the employer need tocreate the container of safety.
I'm gonna talk about that in aminute.
The third thing is to know thatum until they want to do it,
you can't do anything.
And that's just the truth.
All you can do is provide themeans for them.
(13:08):
So the the question I would askthen is like, do you want to
change this?
Jay Johnson (13:13):
Yeah.
Laura Armstrong (13:13):
And so they yeah.
Jay Johnson (13:15):
I I think that's such a, you know, that's such an
interesting, it's such aninteresting perspective because,
you know, I think cognitively,it ultimately we want to change
it or people want to change it,but then it's almost like this
little voice inside that keepsthem from saying You can't do
that.
Exactly.
You know, you can't do that, orchange is scary.
Like we at least know wherewe're at right now.
(13:37):
And I I see that with a lot ofI see that with a lot of people
who have experienced trauma.
One of the questions that I'veasked people in the past is uh
you've experienced trauma,you're working through this,
you're doing the therapy, you'redoing the conversations, you're
doing this.
What does healed look like toyou?
Laura Armstrong (13:56):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (13:57):
And it was, you know, because when you talk
about post-traumaticpost-traumatic stress, you know,
there's a there's a shift inthe industry to post-traumatic
stress injury because it's not adisorder, it's not something
you're born with, but it'ssomething that comes from an
injury of trauma, i.e., anexternal circumstance.
Exactly.
You know, so what does healedlook like?
(14:18):
And very interesting becausewhen I've asked this question,
most people that haveexperienced some kind of trauma,
they they find that verydifficult to answer.
They don't know what healedlooks like.
And what that tells me is theydon't have a goal set for how
they operate, what they looklike, what their energy level
(14:38):
is.
Like it's not a very definedaspect.
So when you're speaking tothis, how do you maybe help them
see the difference between whatdoes injured look like and what
does healed look like?
Laura Armstrong (14:52):
So for them, it could be the same thing.
So there's two things you canprovide.
So, first of all, is theroutine.
The routine will get theircognitive brain um creating new
neurosynapsis pathways.
And so that uh automaticallywill help them.
The second thing, and I thinkwhat's so important is um
(15:12):
there's two things here.
The first is they don't feelsupported, they can say they do,
but they really don't.
So have you created a strongenough for container for them to
feel safe?
I keep saying this, but that'sreally the key word here because
they're not gonna go anywhereunless they feel safe.
Right.
Jay Johnson (15:27):
They're gonna be stuck in a sympathetic nervous
system and just back.
Laura Armstrong (15:31):
And so you need to provide that for them.
The third would be no judgment,because even though it's
automatic for you to say to knowyou don't judge, they need to
hear it.
Right.
And so, and then this the nextthing I would do would be to
give them knowledge, to givethem verbal strategies or
physical strategies or whateverit is that they need so that
(15:51):
they have tools so that they canimplement things and move out
of that space.
Because right now they don'tfeel like they're trapped, they
don't have anything, they'restuck, right?
And so using those four thingscan actually help bring them,
but it has to be the rightsupport system and they have to
feel safe or they're just notgoing to do it.
Both in hypo and high hyper,same thing.
Jay Johnson (16:12):
Well, and let's move to the hyper right now,
because we we do see a lot ofhyperactivity.
I think that you know, if youlook at the if you look at the
number of people that have beenclinically diagnosed with ADHD,
and I'm not just talking aboutself-diagnosis, but I'm even
talking about clinicaldiagnoses.
Right.
You know, we see a rise inthis.
And there's a number ofdifferent, you know,
(16:33):
postulations and theories of whythat's occurring.
Um, but ultimately, when itcomes down to it, I it was Gaber
Mate who again had suggestedI've never met somebody with
ADHD with like a realdebilitating ADHD, because I
think that everybody hasattention challenges at
different points in time, myselfincluded.
Um, I've never met somebodywith ADHD, true like
(16:57):
debilitating ADHD, can't hold ajob, can't stay in a position or
anything else that doesn't havesome level of trauma that comes
along with it.
Laura Armstrong (17:07):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (17:07):
So the fact that you're into the hyperactivity
makes a lot of sense.
So let's let's dig into that.
Laura Armstrong (17:12):
Yeah.
So first of all, I just want tosay I'm not a medical doctor.
I'm I'm just I'm giving you myperspective from my learned
experience.
Like I've taught in everythingfrom women's prisons to men's
halfway houses.
I've taught in um high impact,high violent areas in Israel.
So like I've I've taught umempowerment self-defense all
(17:35):
over the world in different, youknow, in different areas.
Like I remember one morningteaching 13-year-old girls about
rape.
And then at the night, I'm onthe other side of Israel
teaching women of the nightabout how to survive the night,
right?
And so I've had to reallystretch my learning and be in
all sorts of different umpersonalities and and and things
(17:59):
that people have gone throughto actually learn these things.
And so I just want to be clearabout that.
So I'm only giving you mylearned experience.
So for and I and I do a lot oftraining and studying in this
because I think I'm a lifelonglearner.
So the other part about thehyper that I think is so
interesting is I have theattention span of an at.
But the fact of the matter isI've learned to manage it so
(18:21):
that I can stay focused.
And so when someone goes fromthat portal of safety into
hyper, something set them offthat edge.
Right.
And so whatever it was, itdoesn't matter.
You need to bring them backinto that portal.
So they're gonna be actingjittery, hyper, possibly
violent, aggressive, verbal,physical, mental, whatever it
(18:42):
is.
So a lot of the time forsomeone like that, they just
need to ground down.
So uh the somatic breathing issuper, super important for this.
Even if you sit with themwithin three breaths and you do
it together, you willsynchronize your breathing right
away.
They will start to calm down.
Um, so their nervous systemcalms down, then they start to
feel safe.
It's just like the same thingwith people in hypo.
(19:03):
And so the other thing I dowith people who are in the hyper
state is I give them groundingexercises.
So feel your feet on the floor,hold a cold cloth.
And then these seem like simplethings, but these are tactile
things that actually connectwith the brain.
And so then the neural synapsesconnects to the nervous system
and says, Oh, I can relax now,right?
(19:24):
Like I don't need to be in thatstate.
One idea is growing roots outof your feet and picturing them
going down into the earth, intothe core of the earth, and like
really grounding the body in,right?
Um, I had one lady I wasworking with, and she had um,
she was in my full contactself-defense class, and she had
been someone had attempted tokill her with a knife.
(19:44):
And so it came out in theclass, and she was sitting
huddled in a ball like this andshaking and sobbing, right?
And and I just sat there withher, and all she wanted to do
was touch the side of my arm.
That's all she needed becauseshe couldn't take anymore.
And so we did the breathing, webrought her back into her body,
and she was able to processeverything because you're
keeping that in your body,that's not good, right?
(20:04):
You got to get rid of thattrauma, you gotta get rid of
that stuff.
And so we were able to bringher back into her body, and she
was able to move forward.
Now she teaches ESD andprograms all over the world,
like she's an amazing humanbeing.
So these things of being inhypo and hyper, they are not
permanent, right?
Everyone thinks PTSD is acurse.
It's not.
(20:25):
So the thing is it's temporaryand you can change it.
You just need to be with theright people with the right
training who can hold thecontainer for you so you feel
safe about not just processing,but bringing yourself back into
the portal of safety.
And they and they need to knowhow to do that.
Jay Johnson (20:40):
Yeah.
No, and I think that's superpowerful because I I I know some
people who have who've gonethrough um, you know, different
traumatic events that havecreated conditions for
post-traumatic stress injury.
And I will tell you, you know,a lot of times I think that they
they believe that there is noout, that there is nothing or
(21:00):
anything else.
And I've watched uh several ofthem go through a series of
different programs, working witha licensed psychologist,
working with um differentaspects that have really helped
them elevate and talking to themafterwards, you know,
definitely give some insights oflike, yeah, when you're sitting
in the cave and all you see isdark, you don't see the light or
(21:21):
anything else until youactually start doing some of the
things that you need to do tobe able to process and resolve
and to heal and to understandand to create the conditions of
connection again, because that'sone of the things that
ultimately ends up gettingdropped.
So, you know, one of thethings, one of the things that
uh that I find extremelyinteresting is your applications
(21:43):
of some of your knowledge andexperience to the de-escalation
aspect, right?
In the workplace right now, weand I I think, you know, to kind
of round this out for theleaders, managers, HR, the first
step is recognizing hypo, youknow, hypoactiveness versus
hyperactiveness, recognizingthat there may be some level of
(22:04):
challenge that is going on.
And the next step is, you know,stepping in and creating that
safe space.
So let's talk about let's talkabout the you know, what happens
when that safe space is notmet.
And maybe we have somedifferent tension, conflict,
hopefully not violence, but welive in this, we live in an
environment right now wheretriggers are uh triggers are
(22:27):
everywhere.
And you know, uh people are notalways as kind to each other as
as I advocate for them to be.
Um so let's talk about thisde-escalation aspect.
And I think that you're gonnaprovide a really interesting
perspective on this.
Talk to me about what thatlooks like right now in your
world.
Laura Armstrong (22:44):
Sure.
So there's a couple pieces tothat.
So, first of all, in themanagement area, when I train
managers, I also train them onaggressor behaviors because a
lot of them are unaware thatthey're doing it, it's just
their normal behavior.
And it's not a they're notintentionally doing it, but it's
how they don't understand whypeople are reacting that way.
(23:05):
So it's also having theawareness around that.
That's the first step.
And also um the level uppingtheir level of emotional
intelligence.
So understanding that empathyis the number one thing that
they should be concerned withmore than the bottom line, more
than with um numbers, more thanwith business.
(23:25):
It should be people first,because people are what is going
to create your culture and yourcompany, and that is what
people look at first now.
It's not numbers anymore.
Jay Johnson (23:34):
I mean, it's great to get bought out and all that,
but we need that, but it thatthat comes after the people
because it's the people thatultimately get us to that.
Correct.
So let me ask you this questionbecause we can think about you
know, maybe aggressive behaviorsas somebody um glaring at you
or somebody pounding their fiston the table, or somebody
yelling, and all of those veryum obvious direct aggressive
(23:58):
behaviors.
But help the audience maybewhat are some of those smaller
aggressive behaviors that couldbe signs that are on.
Laura Armstrong (24:07):
Sure.
Yeah.
So there's a lot.
So there's seven um sevenstrategies that aggressors use.
And so it could be things likeunsolicited promise.
So if you do this for me, if Ido this for you, you do this for
me.
Jay Johnson (24:22):
Okay.
Laura Armstrong (24:22):
Seemingly innocent, but it's a
manipulation, right?
Microaggressions.
Oh, you're probably right.
Um, that's the best you can do.
Or you, oh, you drive that car.
Jay Johnson (24:35):
Sure.
Right.
Laura Armstrong (24:36):
Oh, that's your that's your degree.
Right.
So all these are you like, butthey're normal speak, like they
they're in the in the I want tosay the old days, but that was
never like that was the norm.
That was the, you know, and sothis has pervaded our workforce,
right?
And so we the awareness aroundthese things are really key.
Um, you know, another good oneis called loan sharking, where
(24:57):
like um, so um, I did this foryou, so now you have to do this
for me, right?
And so there's this thisperceived authority that um that
managers have that theiremployees must accede to this if
they want to get further, ifthey want to keep their job, if
they, you know, want to getpaid, right?
(25:18):
And so then there's that levelof fear and control that the
person down here doesn't knowhow to deal with because they're
like, okay, I'm stuck here.
I got to do this to earn mymoney, right?
Um the good thing is, and Ijust gave you a couple of
examples because we have limitedtime today, but the good thing
is that there are strategiesthat we can use, um, that
employees can use and bothmanagement can use um to bring
(25:40):
ourselves back into that portalwhere everyone's having a
resolution, right?
And they're and and everybody'sboundaries are being respected.
Because I feel like a lot oftimes people talk about
boundaries, but they don'treally know what it means.
Um, a boundary is a safe pointfor you.
Like really, it's the point ofwhere you don't want things to
crash.
It's that really that simple.
So when you're when you'rethinking of verbal strategies um
(26:04):
for people, um, a lot of thetime some of the cues that you
need are there are things likemaking eye contact, saying what
you mean.
Because that there's a lot ofdisconnect there.
Well, I don't like when you dothat.
Well, do what?
Right?
Like I don't like when youspeak to me that way and say
(26:24):
this.
Now that person has no, there'sno guesswork, no wiggle room,
yeah.
There's no wiggle room, right?
Uh having um your body squaredup to them because if you do it
like this, and I'm like, well,you know, I'm not feeling, you
know, no, it's this, right?
You're squared, you mean whatyou say, and there's no
should've, could have, would've.
(26:44):
Now, these are maybeuncharacteristic things that you
don't normally do.
You don't have to do them allat once because people are like,
what the hell, right?
But you can try one of them,like making eye contact or being
direct about what you want tosay, right?
And don't look away, do nothave shifty eyes.
So all of these cues, there'sprobably about 10 basic ones
that we teach, right?
(27:05):
Um, give you not only thepresence to set your boundary,
but also um give you theconfidence to step in and and
and grow from there and not feellike you're being pushed down
or trapped or you know, and thisgoes on a management level as
well.
Jay Johnson (27:23):
So, Laura, let me ask, let me ask this question.
Okay.
I because I know what somebodyin the audience could be
thinking right now.
They could be thinking, easyfor you to say, Laura, you're a
bodybuilder, you're a badass inmartial arts, you know, you
you've you've conquered fear,you've stood in the face of
adversity.
(27:43):
Easy for you to say.
How do you help somebody that'smaybe that doesn't have that
that natural confidence or thatbuilt-in confidence that either
you've developed, had a littlebit of, whatever that looks
like.
But some people just don't havethat sense of confidence or
authority in themselves.
And you know, something assimple as eye contact, it's like
(28:05):
in and I know this just fromthe study of ethology in the
animal kingdom, eye contact iscan be considered aggression.
And so me making eye contactand keeping eye contact with you
without turning down orlowering my face could be an
escalation gesture.
So some may not necessarily seethat as a defensive posture,
(28:27):
like more of a resistancestrategy as opposed to it being
a more of an aggressivestrategy.
How would you help coach themtowards that confidence of being
able to say, hey, yeah, yeah,yeah, two things there.
Laura Armstrong (28:40):
So, first of all, a great comment about the
eye contact.
Um, that is also a culturalthing.
So if your culture is not usedto that and you're in a
corporate environment incorporate America, corporate
North America, you gotta haveeye contact because that's how
you get respect.
Okay.
And that's how the hierarchy incorporate America works.
(29:01):
Because they want to know thatyou're engaged, that you hear
them, that you're listening, andthat you acknowledge that.
And they do that through a lotof eye contact.
So they will respect that.
But if I'm teaching a class inAfrica and I'm in a different
company, like that is nothappening.
They will look down.
That is a that is a sign ofaggression or um rudeness when
(29:22):
you look in someone's eyes.
So you need to know thecultural impact.
And that's why we asinstructors, we go around
teaching this because it'simportant to know that.
So for the person who doesn'tfeel they have a voice, so what
I recommend is we do exercisesin our classes where it's the
number one thing, Jay, that Ifind that people struggle with
is using their voice becausethey're afraid to they're afraid
(29:43):
to make waves, they don't wantto be heard or cause trouble.
Um, you know, they don't wantto everybody looking at them.
We teach people to use theirvoice for three reasons.
First, it brings ear witnesses,not just eyewitnesses, because
if other people People arehearing what's going on, then
that's important to know thatyou're not allowed, that you
(30:04):
have that support there.
The second is to breathe.
And the third is to generatepower.
So when people feel they can'tuse their voice, what we tell
them is we do differentexercises with them in our
classes.
So for instance, we tell themto say the alphabet from A to Z.
A, you start out reallyquietly, so you can barely hear.
By Z, you're yelling as loud asyou can.
(30:25):
Because why people don't usetheir voice a lot of the time is
A, they've probably beentraumatized or uh chastised or
told, you know, to keep thingsquiet.
Um and so there's that fear,right?
And so the other piece of thatI'd like to add in before we
finish up here is it's reallyimportant that people do
affirmations.
(30:46):
Do you talk about that on yourshow?
Jay Johnson (30:48):
Um we have uh uh past guests has mentioned
affirmations, but go ahead anddig into it.
Laura Armstrong (30:53):
Yeah, I think it's important because
affirmations aren't just somewoo-woo thing you do every day.
When you do affirmations, itstarts to create a habit and
after time it starts to create aritual.
And when that ritual starts,then it starts to manifest or
show up.
So when you do affirmations, itactually changes the
neurosynapsis in your brain.
(31:14):
And so these things start toshow up in your life.
And so that that has to do withthe reticulator activating
system in your brain.
And so that's the system wherelet's say I say to you, uh, Jay,
I need to see an elephanttomorrow.
All of a sudden I'm seeingelephants everywhere, right?
Jay Johnson (31:30):
You you know how that works, right?
Yeah, it's the buying a car andthen all of a sudden you see
your car everywhere.
Laura Armstrong (31:35):
And this, this is it, that's exactly it.
So we're starting to get ourreticulator activating system
working for us.
Right?
I am a powerful person whotakes back my power from others
and I own who I am.
I'm confident, I'm comfortable,and things show up for me with
ease.
Like whatever your affirmationis, do them every morning, look
(31:56):
in the mirror.
It can be difficult at first,um, but what these start to do
is they start to build yourconfidence, confidence almost
unconsciously, um, so that allof a sudden you're sitting
straighter, you're speaking upmore.
So all of these habits,including the breathing, all the
somatic thing, this is just onemore tool in your toolbox that
you can use.
Jay Johnson (32:17):
Yeah, Dr.
Allen Langer talks a lot aboutthat and sort of the like the
positive mental framing, becausethe mind follows the body, the
body follows the mind.
When we say something positive,we look for something positive.
When we say something negative,the body reacts and looks for
something negative.
So I love that as a tactic totake away from here.
Laura Armstrong (32:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Jay Johnson (32:36):
Laura, uh, this has been a fascinating
conversation.
I know we could probably talkfor hours, but given our time,
if the audience wanted to get intouch with you, how would they
reach out?
Laura Armstrong (32:46):
Sure.
You can reach out to me onLinkedIn.
So just look look for me.
Um, and uh you can also uhcheck me out on my website,
wealthmasterysystems.com.
Uh, and I'm happy to speak withany of you.
Uh, I also, if it's okay, I Ialso love to offer people to
spend time with me and hear moreabout them and give them more
tools.
Is that okay, Jay?
Jay Johnson (33:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Armstrong (33:07):
So they could just simply go to wealthstrategy
with Laura.com and book sometime on my calendar, and I'd be
happy to speak with them.
Jay Johnson (33:14):
Amazing.
Well, thank you, Laura.
I really appreciate hearingyour perspectives.
And it's definitely, you know,you've got such a rich history
and an exciting story.
Definitely want to learn moreabout that.
So we'll we'll look to have youback and maybe talk about some
of the other aspects ofworkplace behavior.
But for now, thank you so muchfor being here and sharing your
(33:35):
uh sharing your knowledge, yourexperience, and your wisdom.
Laura Armstrong (33:38):
Thanks so much for having me.
Jay Johnson (33:40):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where together we're shaping
workforce behavior.
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