November 14, 2025 • 43 mins
What if anger, fear, and stress weren’t problems to suppress but power you could steer? We sit down with Dr. Greg Stewart—author, counselor, coach, and former senior pastor—to unpack a practical roadmap for turning raw emotion into leadership leverage. Greg connects four growth levers that drive real performance: IQ for capacity, EQ for adaptability, personality as our default approach, and purpose as the deeper engine that keeps us steady when pressure spikes.
Greg’s “house of the heart” metaphor makes self-mastery simple without being simplistic. When your reaction is bigger than the moment, he shows how to step inside and find the source: a false belief, a hit to identity, or a past experience that’s echoing too loudly. From there, he teaches how to separate the emotional goal you want—respect, clarity, safety—from the behavior you’re using to get it, then choose actions that are rational, healthy, wise, and right. The result is calmer conflict, faster trust, and cleaner decisions.
If you’re ready to swap reactivity for intentional influence—and help your team do the same—this conversation will give you tools you can use in your next one-on-one, standup, or board meeting.
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where together we are shapingworkforce behaviors.
Today I am joined by guest Dr.
Greg Stewart, who is amultiple-time author, coach,
consultant, counselor, andsomebody who is no stranger to
behavior.
So welcome to the show, Dr.
Greg.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Uh, the pleasure of the course, all mine, Jay.
Thank you for having me, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
So we have learned that uh we shared some
geographical roots here.
And uh, but I wanted to talk toyou about your stories.
It's such an interesting one.
You've got uh theology, you'vegot counseling, you've got
organization.
Tell us, how did you get to thisplace?
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
All right.
So it's gonna start off superearly, but don't worry, it's
gonna go fast.
So uh I grew up not too far fromyou in uh Schoolcraft, Michigan,
Portage, Michigan.
And uh so go blue.
Oh, sorry, I had to say that.
So when I was a kid, like a lotof us went to church as kids,
and so I did too.
And that's when I, you know,believed in Jesus uh when I was
a kid, but my parents could goto church, which meant I could
(01:05):
go to church, and then I didthose awesome hardy, hardy teen
years, and then suffered theconsequences from those years
and then you know recommitted mylife to Christ.
So when I did that, I spent asummer in South America on a
missions trip and I went to aBible institute and I felt
called into the ministry.
So back in the 90s, way, wayback in the 90s, it's they
started the adult and continuinged programs for all of us who
(01:28):
had like 160 credit hours but nodegree.
And the uh degree that theyoffered at the time in the 90s
was, you know, the one night aweek for a year and you get your
degree is uh was inorganizational leadership,
right?
So got it and you know, wantedto get my bachelor's degree and
it was good material, but Iwanted to get to seminary, which
is I got a mat, started mymaster of divinity, which is the
Greek Hebrew theology.
(01:49):
But major moment number two, Iguess, would be after being
called the ministry was um myfirst semester in seminary, I
took philosophy of counseling.
And I was like, oh my gosh, thismaterial is phenomenal.
Like I can use this in ministryfor people, but then also
realizing I how many issues Ihad was coming to the surface
real quick, too, right?
That was a joke, right?
So then I got my MDiv in threeyears, and then in the year
(02:13):
2000, I got ordained, and but Imapped out a dual master's.
So I got my MDiv in three years,and then mapped out another
master's in counseling.
And between those two degrees inthe year 2000, like there's a
perfect storm.
So one is I was on vacation, Icame across the book Emotional
Intelligence by Daniel Goleman.
I was like, this is interesting.
So oh my gosh, uh, it waslife-changing.
So then, secondly, is I startedteaching um from uh as an
(02:38):
adjunct professor, just to earnsome extra money for my alma
lauder and all theorganizational leadership
courses I took in undergrad andthen fell in love with
leadership.
But number three is I wasunderneath uh a pastor and a
great guy, very moral andethical, but he had some
emotional stuff that was goingon like from childhood, and it
just we had a kind of a fallingout.
(02:59):
So they asked him to leave, Ibecame the senior pastor.
So the church I became aChristian as a kid, I actually
landed back at, I was a pastorthere at that same church for 15
years.
So it was definitely an honoringexperience.
So I got my MA counseling, andthen so at the time I was an
adjunct professor, I was apastor, I was a clinical
counselor, and then at when Ibecame the senior pastor, I got
my PhD in counselor educationsupervision, but I did my
(03:23):
dissertation on the relationshipof emotional intelligence with
job satisfaction, organizationalcommitment.
And after that, I startedworking with um, you know, uh
there's a medical devicecompany, head code in Kalmazou,
a very powerful one.
And that's where I had the VP ofHR of the largest division of
Tammy Church, and he brought mein to start doing coaching and
consulting.
So that's where I cut myorganizational development
(03:46):
coaching teeth on.
So after 15 years in the church,we moved to Texas in 2012.
And then for three years, Iworked for an assessments
company where we benchmarked topperformers and we did leadership
360s and I traveled all over thecountry.
Absolutely loved it, doingstrategic seminars for senior
leadership teams and thencoaching each of the members of
the senior leadership teams inuh developing the individual
(04:08):
development plans in personalityand um EI.
Loved it, but the company gotbought out, right?
And 80% of us got laid off.
So, Jay, if you've never beenlaid off, it's awesome.
You gotta try it, right?
So then I actually switched overto and became a director at a
behavioral health hospital.
So I've had a plethora ofthings, but that's how it kind
of developed, where I was, youknow, counseling and then
(04:30):
consulting and coaching.
So right now I see about 40clients a week in a mixture of
yeah, yeah, 40, 40 clients aweek, and I absolutely love it.
And work with them on everythingfrom the I call it negative 10
to positive 10, where negative10 to zero is like counseling,
where there's a lot of umemotions are getting in the way,
but then zero to positive 10 iscoaching where I'm helping them
(04:52):
become as effective and powerfulas they can be.
So that's in a nutshell, that'swhat's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
That's that's such an incredible story, and I love
the different sort of like areasbecause as a behavioral
scientist, one of the things Iknow is I started with just the
study of communication as thebehavior, and that wasn't
enough.
So then I studied psychology andthat wasn't enough.
And then I started studyingneuroscience, and it was just
like all of these differentfactors.
(05:19):
But across my experience, one ofthe things that has really
helped me was seeing people indifferent environments, you
know, their work environments.
Uh I one of the my favoritethings, you might you might
really appreciate this.
When I travel, I love going togrocery stores and just actually
seeing like how things are setup because you can learn a lot
(05:41):
about behavior just fromenvironment and context.
So let me ask you this.
Because this I think is kind ofan interesting, an interesting
question.
Between counseling, between uhspirituality, and between
organizations, what have youlearned that really kind of ties
maybe those three differententities together?
(06:03):
Or are there particularpractices that really work well
across all three of thosedifferent dynamics?
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
So I would say that the I I call them the same exact
like um techniques um andphilosophy and psychology is
across the board, but it's howyou package it.
So I'm actually going to go tobook number three.
So my first book um was oniCube, where I unlock the uh
industry behind your negativeemotions.
(06:30):
That's like the an individualcounseling one.
And then because I do so muchmarriage counseling, the second
book was iCube for Couples, um,facing our negative emotions to
build intimacy.
But my third book was ICube forLeaders, where the first two is
about the negative emotions andus like going deep and figuring
our hearts out.
But the third book has adifferent take on negative
emotions where it's unleashedthe rage of your negative
(06:53):
emotions against the obstaclesof becoming more.
So I'm gonna start there becauseand then go backwards.
So in my first chapter of thatbook, I'm becoming more, that's
where I do the psycho babble,like you know, our mental models
that we have to become more, andlike, you know, why do we keep
hitting this news button seventimes kind of thing, just lay
the groundwork.
But in chapter two, I talk aboutthe becoming more quotient,
(07:13):
right?
So there's this uh four, fourboxes where I I've always told
people that I coach or workwith, I said, look, if you can
find a book, a proverb, a quote,an article on leadership that
doesn't fit into one of thesefour, I'll buy you lunch, right?
Well, I still have that moneykind of thing, right?
So, real quick, it's it's fourareas.
So it's IQ, which is we're bornwith our IQ, right?
(07:37):
But the question is, what howhow does one human being
influence another human being,right?
Well, obviously, if somebodywith a high IQ, they're gonna be
influential, right?
But we're born with an IQ, butwhat we can do is we maximize
the goal is to maximize our IQthrough two things informal and
formal education, right?
So even if it's informal, Ithink there's PhDs walking
(07:59):
around all over the placebecause they're expert in their
fields, so be constant learns,but secondly, is learning
critical thinking skills, right?
Stuff like yeah, like uh problemsolving skills, like uh whether
it be to understand biases asopposed to like Bloom's
taxonomy, and there's just anumber of different ways.
So to learn critical thinkingskills.
(08:20):
Number two is the interplaybetween personality and
emotional intelligence, so IQ,EQ, and then personality.
So I make a statement in thebook where I do not know how we
can have a discussion aboutleadership without discussing
our personality, because it'sour approach where a strength
taken too far becomes aweakness, right?
So when I worked at theresidential treatment center
(08:42):
with teenage girls, they used tosay, Dr.
Greg, you're so extra.
And I thought it was acompliment, right?
But they didn't mean it as acompliment, right?
So it's a strength taken toofar.
Like I can become toodomineering, too impulsive, too
critical, or whatever.
And when it comes to leadership,the damage that happens when
you're either leading someone oror following somebody is really
(09:03):
much of it isn't really uh uhpersonality taken too far.
So I say personality ran throughthe machine of EI equals your
personal uh leadershipeffectiveness.
So that the interplay of there.
But number four is spiritualdevelopment and destiny.
Okay, so if you give mepermission, I'm just gonna um,
(09:24):
you know, bring in my theology.
So uh a lot of us at least knowthe story, like in the Bible,
that you know, God createdeverything, Genesis, you know,
chapters one and two, everythingwas great.
In Genesis three, we talk aboutthe fall, right, where Adam and
Eve sinned and everything wentto hell.
But then Genesis four throughtoday is both God and man
responding to what happened inGenesis three.
In Genesis four, though, it saysthat these descendants started
(09:47):
becoming shepherds and herdsmen,these descendants started
becoming making for me tools,and then these descendants
started making musicalinstruments.
When I saw the musicalinstruments, they're like,
that's interesting.
So here's my premise for helpingpeople develop their mission
statement, right?
So let me pause there and saythat for all the books, for
everybody, everything we do,Jay, is trying to achieve an
(10:09):
emotional goal.
I want to feel something likethe micro.
If I'm thirsty, I want to take adrink of my soda, um, or if I'm
tired and sleep, but then we'reall in pursuit of our macro
emotional goals, which are youknow, quality of life as
determined by standard ofliving, living our values, and
fulfilling destiny calling andpurpose.
And I don't care if you'rereligious or not, every human
(10:30):
being wants to feel that.
They want to feel like they'relike a legacy or feel like
they're they have a high qualityof life or heavier.
So in the spiritual developmentdestiny, Genesis 4, it's I say
that that every job ever, everytechnological advancement ever
is either trying to solve ahuman problem or enhance the
(10:51):
human experience.
So every company begins with anentrepreneur, right?
Uh caveman walks out and says,Well, this sucks and creates the
wheel, right?
So Howard Schultz, Starbucks,like something's missing here.
I want to create an experience.
Matter of fact, when I wrote mybook, I was on a cruise with my
wife, and I note that in thebook, it's cruises are not
solving human problems orenhancing human experience,
(11:12):
which is the musicalinstruments.
So when I help people developtheir mission statement, it's
deeper in the sense of they lookat the world, and I first begin
with what of all the problems inthe world, which one drives you
insane?
Like, like you can't stand it.
And there's a bunch of problems,but it's that one.
(11:33):
And whatever it is, here's thekey that every single time
somebody develops their missionstatement, it comes from their
personal experiences.
Yep.
That's right.
So that's where we developed themission statement.
So that's how it kind of allties in together is that there's
something deeper, and I cannottell you how many people have
signed up for counseling with mebecause, like, I loved on the
(11:53):
story of I had two doctors, onewas a radiologist, one was an
anesthesiologist from Houston.
They didn't know each other.
At the same time, they came tome and said, you know, I make
about 300K plus per year.
But it's like, is this it?
Over and over and over again.
So that's what's just missing.
I call it the Iron Man core,right?
It's that Iron Man, thatinexhaustible energy source.
(12:14):
That's your purpose and mission.
But that energy source was putthere to keep that shrapnel from
killing the heart, right?
That was the whole point of, youknow, saw Iron Man.
Without that core, the shrapnelis like life's annoyances, it's
taxes, it's traffic.
And without a purpose, the humansoul will I mean just like it
will shrivel up, right?
So that's where all of it kindof ties in together.
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, I love I love the quadrant approach there.
You know, when I think about sofor for those playing along at
home, if you're if you're notfamiliar, IQ meaning
intelligence quotient,generalized, uh standard,
standard intelligence.
And the EQ, uh, as youmentioned, Goldman, generally
(12:58):
has two different domains.
It's the domain of awareness andit's the domain of response.
And that is measured againstinternal versus social.
Um, the personality, there's anumber of different personality
assessments out there, whetherit's disk, Myers Briggs, whether
it's uh the actual clinicaldiagnostic in the OPIR or any of
the other ones.
(13:18):
And then we get to that sort ofspiritual, uh, the spiritual
legacy purpose.
I I love how you've kind ofpositioned those four things
because I do see not only everyleadership book, but I mean most
trainings or most uhorganizational development
programs would probably fallinto one of those different
things.
How are we achieving settingmission, goal, purpose,
(13:40):
strategy, direction versus howam I showing up each and every
day?
I want to dig in on theemotional side of things.
I I I would be remiss if Ididn't spend time with you on
emotions, right?
Emotions, in in most instances,we look at emotions as generally
autonomic, right?
They're part of the autonomicnervous system.
(14:01):
They pop up in differentaspects.
Uh, there's external stimuli,there's also internal stimuli,
how much rest I've had, how muchfood I've eaten, how many
aspects, right?
So we think that we have theseemotions.
We don't necessarily get toquote control our emotions.
I might feel jealous and thenregret feeling jealous, and then
(14:22):
regret feeling regret, and thenfeel guilty that I felt jealous.
I don't get to control that.
What are some of the ways?
Because these emotions, as youuh as you so accurately point
out, drive a number of, we'regonna call them uh negative
consequence behaviors.
I don't like to say badbehavior, I don't like to say
good behavior.
(14:42):
Every behavior has a purpose,it's serving an emotion or it's
serving a need.
Um, but some have negativeconsequences, some have
positive.
Yep, for sure.
How do we, how do we betterregulate some of those powerful
neurotransmission signals thatare hitting us that we call
emotions, and stop ourselvesfrom putting our foot in our
(15:05):
mouth, stopping ourselves frombeating ourselves up?
Because I think this is abehavior that we see in every
leader, in every HR place, everytalent development space.
How do how do we navigate that?
unknown (15:16):
Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
Garrett?
Right.
All right.
So one is that, yeah, it's it'sour mental model, right?
So our mental model gives anauto response, right?
And that's where we say we can'tcontrol, we can't control the
autoresponse, um, other than akey component of emotional
intelligence is impulse control,right?
So there's there are techniquesthat, and I've experienced it
(15:37):
where I am about ready to, youknow, punch a hole in the wall,
but I have to control.
So we can't control the energy,but we can control the
expression, right?
Okay, so one is that um I usethis illustration where I say
behind us is the house of ourheart, right?
And we're standing on the frontlawn, and before us are all
(15:57):
these things and people facingthe house of our heart, like
that are upsetting us, right?
Um, so let's say that Jay callsme a name, right?
Which he never would becausehe's so nice, right?
But let's say Jay calls me aname, and I use like I say
there's three tenets toemotions.
One is that emotion is energy,okay?
Think of emotions that sothere's good energy, right?
(16:17):
Quality of life, but you likeyou said, there's not bad, but
negative energy, and that'ssimply used to have to solve uh
solve problems.
Secondly, is to have the rightbrand or type of emotion.
Like when people a lot of peoplesay that I have anxiety, but
it's actually stress, likecontrol calm versus no control.
And it's huge because when ourfrontal lobe says I have
(16:38):
anxiety, our mental model willrespond as if there was
something out of our control,but that's not the case.
So we have to label itcorrectly.
But then have the right brand ortype and the right amount.
So a scale of one to ten.
So Jay calls me a name on ascale of one to ten, there's two
ways to assess it.
Like, what's the worst that canhappen?
Like, what bad happens becauseJay calls me a name on a scale
one to ten.
Well, it's like a point five,right?
And nothing, you know, but thenit's how much emotional energy
(17:00):
do I need to respond to it?
Like, Jay, stop it, right?
Now that's fine, but here's theissue that on the amount, the
issue is that even though itshould be a 0.5 or a one, I'm at
a six, seven, or eight.
And right there is I call it theinflation of emotions.
So, which we all have, but wehave that's where we have to
(17:21):
walk into them.
So I say, at that point, so yougot to turn around and walk in
the house of your heart becauselike I can't dump a six, seven,
or eight of emotional energy onJay because it's gonna get far
worse.
I'm not gonna, it's not gonna beemotionally intelligent and I'm
not gonna, it'll just damage,right?
So I have to stop.
I say you gotta put down themicroscope and pick up the
mirror, right?
(17:41):
And this we see this inorganizations, we see this in
our families everywhere.
So when I walk in the house ofmy heart, I say tenant number
three is that all negativeemotions exposing something in
you, right?
It sounds bad, but it's actuallyvery freeing.
So I work with every client andleader and say, look, as much as
possible, remove all power fromthe environment.
(18:05):
So a quote in my book is nothingbothers me unless it should,
right?
Because it should, if it shouldbother me, then you can't do you
can't be passive.
So in the first room isinsecurity, right?
Then I say that I do theemotions of insecurity, anxiety,
fear, worry, anger, depression.
So like anxiety is in thekitchen, right?
Fear is crouched in the hallway,worry is looking out the front
window, uh, anger is walkingaround the bedroom, and
(18:27):
depression is laying in bed.
So the first, the first majorreason for the inflation of
emotions is simply we believe alie.
As some lie, like, you know, Jaymeant it, he hates me, or some
people say, like, I'll never geta job.
And I cannot tell you how muchlike um here's the key emotions
(18:47):
don't produce themselves, theycome from sentences of
interpretation of mine, beliefs,ideas, right?
Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
Gray, let me ask a question on that.
Can the lie then also besomething of Jay's right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Right's right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
If I if I call a name, generally, whatever the
name is, right?
Oh, somebody that sort of justlike, you're right.
I am if I say this this is aterrible person, and somebody
goes, you know what, maybe Jay'sright.
I am a terrible person.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Can that also be the lie that we yeah, because you
can believe lies about yourself,right?
Which I would the first room isin that's why the first room's
insecurity.
Insecurity is like a like Ialways tell when I was I worked
at a hamburger joint in uhMichigan, and I was 14 years
old, and we were all friendsthere.
But Jay, I used to be a supersarcastic teenage guy, but you
can see I matured, right?
(19:38):
So I teased this girl once.
Uh, she was my friend, but Iteased her so bad one time I
made her cry.
And as she's walking away, Iremember the moment I yelled
out, you wouldn't get so tickedoff if it wasn't true.
And I pause, like while she'scrying, I pause and went, Oh my
gosh, Greg.
So every time you get upset,defensive, you know, butthers
they say or or whatever, it'sit's gotta be truth because when
I saw people trash talk, ifsomebody really wants to hurt
(20:01):
the feelings of another person,um, outside of your mama jokes,
that they they use truestatements.
Yeah, right, right.
Otherwise, it's just like Jay,I'm concerned.
We've got to, hey, foreverybody, like Jay, I'm
concerned about your hair andaddiction.
And you're like, okay, great,right?
If it's not true, so insecurityis something I don't like about
myself, but the issue is notthat, because we all have that.
(20:22):
The issue is I don't want itexposed, and not one exposed
where I get defensive, but ifit's true, right?
So you own it.
So the first thing is we couldagain we have to assess it, is
it true or not true?
Right?
So I'm just saying, like, ifit's like I'll never get a job.
Well, that's not true.
What you could say, you have toreplace it.
So you have to replace the liveswith truth, meaning, look, if
(20:42):
I'm honest with myself, I didn'ttry very hard in high school and
college.
So what kind of job am Iexpecting to get?
But if I work hard, learn totrade, go back to college, I
can, but it's about the truthbecause that produces the right
amount of negative energy toburn, right?
So rise is the number onereason.
Secondly, is off the room ofinsecurity is a doorway that
goes into the basement.
(21:03):
And in the basement is themachine of identity, value, and
worth, right?
Whenever we say that we'retaking things personally, what
we're saying is whatever thenegative event is, it's
impacting our value and worth,and it should not.
And when you talk about like uhleaders with Napoleon's disease
or insecure leaders, or they gota post up or where the case is
(21:27):
and like positional power,that's what it, that's what
we're talking about.
It's it's impacting their value,their significance, and it
shouldn't.
And there's a whole processideal with that.
But number three, often theoften the basement is the dark,
dingy cellar door of trauma.
Now, there's big T officialtrauma, which very few of us
have experienced, but almostevery single one of us have
(21:48):
experienced little T trauma,where a bad experience that just
rocks our world.
So that could be the carryovereffect where I'm reminded, like
my mental model goes, oh great,Greg, here we go again, and it
scoops up the emotion from thepast and dumps it.
So those are three major reasonsfor the inflation.
So that's where, yeah, it's anauto-response, man, but we got
to walk into those negativeemotions because if I'm sitting
(22:10):
there just burning all thisemotional energy on the
microscope on Jay, it's likewhat I'm saying is the solution
to my negative emotions is Jaychanging.
Well, I'm I'm screwed, right?
So no, I I want I need to dealwith Jay on the point five or
one, but the inflation is myissue.
That's where I say in all threebooks, you've got to walk into
that and figure that out becausethat's your issue, not theirs.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
Well, and it it it seems to me, and I love that you
brought in the concept ofreframing, right?
Like, okay, well, this is thelie that I'm telling myself.
I need to replace that.
With what is the actual truththat I need to be telling
myself?
Maybe I didn't work as hard.
Maybe I think that really kindof goes to the core of
ownership, right?
Like stepping into our own powerand not necessarily being
(22:54):
subjected to our own ruminationsor our own interpretations,
because that can be reallydangerous.
Am I getting that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah.
So you have to, it's just aconstant process of like a long
time ago, Jay, I've alreadyassessed, like, I said, look, my
mental model is cuckoo for cocapous.
I mean, I'm sold because I don'thave all the information in any
situation.
And the formulas by which Iprocess information, if they're
gonna be off.
(23:22):
So then I need to be teachable.
Like, so going back toleadership, when I work to
senior leadership teams, I'd askthe question like who are the
worst leaders you've ever beenunder and who are the best.
Invariably, there's a bunch ofanswers, but there's always two
that rose to the top.
The first one is they don'tlisten, right?
Which means they're on agenda,like they're or secondly,
(23:43):
they're not teachable.
So I'm being tea, yeah, goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I was gonna say the listen to stick with that one
for a second, kind of made methink about the walking into the
basement in your analogy of notfeeling valued, not feeling
worth like, oh, I'm not evenworth listening to.
You're not valuing my opinion.
So, like in that regard, I cansee a leader who doesn't listen
(24:07):
is essentially tapping into thatbasement level for somebody of
saying, Why am I even here?
Does it is with that?
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
It's it's definitely because why aren't you
listening?
Because you it could be a pridething, you're not, you don't
care what this person says.
Um, but it's really about likeit could be about value and
worth, or not listening meansthat I am speaking truth to you,
that you that something needs tochange here or you need to
change, and you're like, you'reno, because what is pride?
Pride is nope, Jay.
(24:36):
I've got all the information Ineed at all times, and my
formulas are spot on, so no,thank you.
That's pride, right?
So I talk about the Jihariwindow model when it comes to
the blind area.
Like again, I learned that as akid.
The blind area that Jay seessomething about me that I don't
see, freak me out.
So I came up with two tech, twothings that I add to every
(24:56):
single leader's individualdevelopment plan.
One is the practice of the skillof empathy, restating using
synonyms, what people say.
And I've got a technique for it,right?
Because why?
It is about the humanexperience, right?
So when the best leaders, flipit, the best leaders are the
ones who listen.
Like, man, I was talking to theCEO at the curses party, and I
was like, I was the only personin the room.
(25:18):
That's where you get likereferent power because the CEO
cares just on a human basis, butthe CEO is like, everybody's got
good ideas, right?
So number one is just empathy,but secondly, I call it
proactive teachability.
So I asked the question what isyour plan or strategy for
eradicating your blind area?
(25:39):
Because if you don't see it,right, what's your plan?
It can't be reactiveteachability.
Why?
Because everybody's afraid ofconflict.
I can't wait for Jay to walkinto my office and say, Greg,
dude, you are blind becausewe're afraid of conflict.
So I'm not gonna wait for that.
So every leader, I say eitherone person a week or two people
a week, go out to people andsay, Jay, how can I grow?
(26:00):
Where do you think I'm blind?
And Jay will be nice to me.
I'm like, Jay, no, I want likethere's 10% in the back of your
brain that you would never everever tell me I want that for two
reasons.
One one is you could bebelieving something about me
that I'd like to correct that'snot true about me, or you might
see something about me that Idesperately need to see.
(26:21):
So, like, lay it on me.
Like, I sacrifice myself, likethat's pro-teachability.
Every leader needs to, and thenthink about what pro-active
teachability, because everyhuman being, it's like a human
thing, everybody kind of sitsback and says, Man, I wish my
leader would do that.
I wish my spouse would do that.
Well, I should do that.
So every human being should.
So when leaders in the orgleadership teams do proactive
(26:43):
teachability, it changes theculture of the organization.
It's powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
You you totally tripped a story in my mind of
something that was reallymeaningful at one point in time.
Now, when I was coming up, uhwhen I was growing up, I'm gonna
call it, you know, 15, 20 yearsago, as I was doing leadership
and everything else like that.
I I was a former competitivedebater uh in the university.
(27:09):
I I'm very competitive ingeneral.
Some people would call me extraas well, or maybe overly
extroverted, or anything else.
Well, when I was in thosepositions, I would always
advocate so passionately, sodirectly.
And I always looked fairlyconfident in what I was saying
because that's how I wastrained.
I ended up, I ended up at aleadership conference, and it's
(27:33):
one of my dear friends.
Hopefully he's listening.
I'll give him a little creditfor it.
His name's Justin and uh JustinWoodski, who uh we ended up
getting partnered and having touh share a room during this
experience, this retreat.
And uh I didn't think anythingof it.
We go into the retreat, it'sawesome, we have a great time.
Justin and I stay up laughingand talking and sharing stories,
(27:54):
etc.
Well, afterwards, I'm like,Justin, this has been really
great.
He's like, Yeah, Jay, it has.
He's like, honestly, I wasdreading this.
And I was like, what?
He's like, Well, I you you'rejust so different than I
thought.
You know, I see you as you'representing or whatever, and
you're just domineering andyou're you're aggressive in this
and that and the other thing.
(28:14):
I had never perceived myself asthat.
I perceived myself as confidentand passionate.
But then it was something thathe had opened up this complete
blind spot to me.
And I I I am I tell this story,he's heard me tell this story.
I'm so grateful for that.
Like that was the 10% in theback of somebody's mind that's
not coming out.
So I really, really appreciatethat tactic of no, tell me what
(28:37):
you don't want to tell mebecause that's the only way I'm
gonna grow.
From that point forward, Ireally shifted a lot of
behaviors because I didn't wantto be perceived that way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Right.
And real quick, so so that's whyI love EI because, you know,
like you said, there's self andothers, self-awareness, others
awareness, self-management,others management, or
relationship management.
But the chronological flow isself-awareness first, right?
Yeah, like what am I thinking,feeling?
What's my current?
But I think that the key to EI,the brilliance of EI, the
mastery of EI is in the secondone, which is others' awareness,
(29:09):
which I've relabeled tosituational awareness.
Yeah.
Because the situation is theking, it's the brick wall, it's
not moving.
True EI is to be able to, whichis number three,
self-management.
So if the situation and I match,like Greg, you be you, but if
there is a gap at all, I can'tlook at the situation, which a
(29:31):
lot of foolish leaders do andsay, you mold yourself to me.
No, I need to be emotionallyintelligent and imitate the
right approach, like the eitherextrovert, introvert people, or
and so in some situations, somepeople would look at you and
say, Oh gosh, I actually thoughtJay was pretty tame.
But to other temperaments,they're like, Whoa, that dude is
(29:52):
intense because the situationdetermined about personality,
who the person is or the groupis, right?
So it's so we we read thesituation.
And we mold ourselves to it.
That is EI in a nutshell.
And for like number the lastone, relationship management, I
separate that out because I inmy book, I just give a bunch of
communication skills that we canuse because what's relationship
(30:14):
management?
It's communication, right?
So the actual flow isself-awareness, situational
awareness, self-management.
But that's what you're talkingabout is he sees you as this
intense guy.
Whereas you and I'd be like, oh,I thought I thought Jay was
pretty chill, right?
Right.
It's about perception, right?
Based upon the situation.
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
So let's make this practical if we can.
I'm going to go back tosomething that you had said
earlier because I think this isso powerful, right?
And becoming aware that ouremotions are driving a number of
our behaviors in the workplaceor even in personal life,
starting to look at somesituations.
Let's go back to that personthat you had brought up.
You had said, uh, you know, theperson at the office that's so
(30:53):
angry they want to put theirfist through the wall.
Okay.
You had mentioned there's acouple of tactics maybe that you
could do in that very moment togain, grab awareness, and to
essentially walk ourselves backfrom that.
And I I love the concept of kindof going into the heart and
those.
In the moment, we know that youknow, cortisol, adrenaline,
(31:14):
norepinephrine, all of thatpumping into the brain.
It's not creating the conditionsfor us to be as rational as we
potentially could be.
What are some practical,tactical behaviors that we can
do instantly to stop ourselvesor give ourselves maybe a little
bit of that space to make abetter behavioral decision?
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
Right.
Okay.
So whether it be I'm observingthat person or I am that person,
right?
So in my first book in chapterone, so when I talked about
everything we do is achieving anemotional goal, right?
I didn't say that that's great.
All the emotional goals aregood, but the issue is the path
we take to achieve the emotionalgoal.
We have to assess the action,the behavior, the path to
(31:56):
achieve the emotional goal,which I use all the way through
my books is RHWR, rational,healthy, wise, and right.
For instance, if I'm trying toachieve the emotional goal of
I'm stressed out, I don't wantto be stressed, but I choose the
pathway of drinking alcoholevery day at five, right?
It achieves the emotional goal,but it's not rational, healthy,
wise, and right.
My point is that a greatde-escalator of intensity and
(32:18):
conflict is always like alwayspoint out and agree with because
you can the person's emotionalgoal.
And I say for you, separate theemotional goal because we get
angry.
Anger is a result of blockedgoals.
There's a there's an actualphysical goal, and then there's
an emotional goal, like I'mfeeling disrespected.
(32:40):
That's an emotional goal.
So whether we we observesomebody who's super angry,
immediately connect to thatperson on their emotional goal,
right?
We often go after the path, likedon't do that.
But as soon as we attack theaction without the validation of
the emotional goal, everybodymerges the emotional goal with
the path.
So they see us as blocking theemotional goal as well.
(33:03):
But it's like, I'm not gonna bedisrespected.
See, it's like I right, soimmediately start begin with, I
want you to be respected, right?
I want this goal achieved, soagree with the emotional goal,
but then you can see to separatethe path, the action, the
response from the emotionalgoal.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
So, from an internal side, is that a practice that
maybe like if I'm experiencingthis anger, I might say, okay,
hey, here's why?
And and really kind of justbeing like, it's okay for me to
feel angry.
It's not okay for me to put myhands on that wall.
The anger that I'm feeling is aresult of being blocked.
Is this, is this?
What else could I do to overcomethat barrier?
(33:42):
Is that kind of what you mean?
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
Exactly.
And so, like every emotion, likethey say anger is a secondary
emotion, but what that actuallymeans is that, you know, first
of all, like insecurity,anxiety, fear, worry, anger.
So if you say I'm insecure, I'manxious, I'm afraid, I'm
worried, I'm like, those areunderdog emotions.
But as soon as you go angry,your focus goes from what I'm
feeling to outward again, whichmeans you're blowing it, you're
putting all the power in theexternal.
(34:05):
My point is like when I talkabout number two is to have the
right label or type, like Isaid, anxiety versus stress.
With anger, you got to firstlike what goals of mine are
being blocked?
And then secondly, you got tograb that puppy and drag it
below the line again and say,because all anger is a result of
fear.
And it completely disarms us,where we that's like a technique
(34:27):
because anger, I'm againfocusing on you.
It's it's I'm angry at, but if Isay, but what goal of mine is
being blocked?
Back to internal, and what am Iafraid of?
What's the worst that can happenif Jay keeps calling me that
name or whatever it is, right?
It's a result of fear.
So we have to like bring thepower back inside of us and say
(34:48):
it's our issue first before wecan go out to address it, right?
So that's what we're talkingabout is like number one, is
emotional goal from path.
And then secondly, it's how do Irespond with what's actually
happening with the labels ofthese emotions, especially when
it comes to anger?
Anger is always a result offear.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
It's this is such a powerful conversation because
you know, whether we're whetherwe're working in retail, uh real
estate, whether we're working inthe manufacturing floor, or
whether we're working in anexecutive office, there's going
to be those aspects whereemotions come into play and they
try to hijack whatever ourdecision-making processes are.
(35:28):
It it seems to me one of thethings that could be a real big
value for people, and help meunderstand if I'm right here, is
maybe learning the nuancesbetween the different emotional
labels.
So maybe studying the emotionwheel and saying, okay, is this
really fear or is this moreanxiety, or is this more stress,
(35:49):
or is this more excitement, oris this more joy, or and really
kind of nuancing becauselanguage is limited, but it's
all we have.
So if we're able to, if we'reable to maybe communicate those
feelings more effectively, doesthat help, Dr.
Greg?
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Yeah, like there, I have an emotional wheel and
there's an emotional chart withhundreds of emotions.
And when you're able to, like,especially when you restate
somebody, hey, it's not that Ithat I'm feeling um upset, it's
just I'm more despondent.
Well, the nuance differencebetween discouraged and
despondent, right?
So when you're able to restate,like, yes, it's exactly what I'm
feeling.
That's one.
But let me kind of flip it andI'm gonna kind of you know end
with the I cubed process becauseI put the chapter on I cubed at
(36:29):
the end of each book becauseit's like this little technique
summarizes all the psychobabble, if you will.
So, real quick, the IQ processis like the Panama Canal.
So the first lock has to fill upbefore the second lock opens,
right?
So information, interpretation,intensity.
So on information, that lock hasto fill up before you can go to
interpretation.
So the rule is that, and Iapplied this years ago, 25 years
(36:54):
ago, I'd say, Greg, it isillegal, I like that word,
illegal for me to have anyopinion interpretation or any
emotion intensity until I haveall the information.
Right?
Because how many times has beenlike, no, Greg, it's not that,
it was this, and suddenly I'mlike, oh, one little piece of
information.
Right.
So here, like biases.
(37:15):
Now, I always like to say,imagine if that one rule was
applied in our culture andsociety, it is illegal to have
any opinion or any emotion untilyou have all the information.
It would change the world,right?
So let's say, right, theinformation fills up.
The second one is where we getinto critical thinking, which is
interpretation.
That the rule there is simplylike you'd be in negative,
(37:38):
neutral, and positive, right?
So obviously you're thinkingnegative about something, but
the key thing is on criticalthinking, is there any other way
of looking at it?
And this is where you step outof your emotion.
So forget like the nuances, likestep out of your emotion.
And what I have found over andover again is there are several,
like five, six, or seven, I workwith clients, like there's could
be six statements that arealmost like paradoxical, they're
(38:00):
like completely opposite, butthey all are true and coexist in
how to interpret thisinformation.
Well, on the one hand, this, onthe other hand, that.
But all of them stories we tellourselves and that's oh my gosh,
I use that phraseology in mybook, right?
So so once you lay out all thestatements of interpretation,
here's what's weird is theemotions, like the intensity,
(38:21):
are like almost like a dominoeffect where they just naturally
play out because your emotionswill be like go up and down
according to the informationinterpretation.
So, like you can either go intothe emotions, like when you're
being exposed, or use the IQtechnique where I'm first gonna
get the information and thencritically think, step out of
myself.
What are all the ways tointerpret this?
(38:42):
And then just naturally comesthe amount of emotional energy,
and then I can determine how torespond to it.
So it kind of flips it on itshead.
So I always I end the books withthat one technique because it's
like the summary of all thestuff that came before it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
I think it's a powerful thing.
And I also think I really likeactually like how you had
mentioned Bloom's taxonomy.
So for any of our trainers thatare listening to us, they're
gonna know exactly what that is.
But it does kind of remind me ofthat of that first level of
learning is just like, can Irecall it?
Can I understand it?
Can I, and then I can move tothe like, okay, can I interpret
(39:18):
it?
Can I evaluate it?
And then can I apply it?
And can I actually create withit or design with it?
So uh it seems to me that it itfollows almost that natural uh
learning process.
I get the information once Ihave it, I can then evaluate it.
Once I can evaluate it, then Ican actually apply whatever the
(39:40):
response uh appropriate.
I'm gonna say appropriateresponse is.
You know, going then becausesomebody finished off the orange
juice is probably not theappropriate level of response
where, you know, maybe a maybe ashort conversation could resolve
it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
Right.
And then in my checker oncritical thinking, so on Bloom's
Techonomy, like obviously thebottom three levels are all
about the training, like uhinform our knowledge,
comprehension, application.
So I call it training byrhetorical question, right?
Do you think people like it whenyou say hi to them?
Right.
So kind of thing, but the topthree levels is where I get into
the book, where it's analysis,synthesis, evaluation, and like
(40:16):
how can we take those threetopics to like with senior
leadership teams to break downall of your business assumptions
and strategies and breakeverything down, saying there is
a there is a a way to break allthis down so I can that's the
interpretation.
So, yes, there's knowledgecomprehension application, but
let's let's step back and say,what are we all dealing with
here on this topic?
(40:37):
Because again, instead of themicro, we have to look more
macro and break it all downtheoretically, then synthesis,
bring it all back together.
So I even tap into the upperthree levels when it comes to
even start strategy planning.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
This has been an incredible conversation, Dr.
Greg.
And I want to say thank you forthat.
But before I do, if our audiencewanted to get in touch with you,
how would they reach out to you?
SPEAKER_00 (40:59):
So if you can see my name on the screen, Dr.
Greg Stewart, just takeout theperiod.com.
All right, this is D R G R E G SE W R T dot com.
That's right, I like that,right?
So drgregstewart.com and I haveeverything there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
That's beautiful.
So I will make sure that we getthat into the show notes.
But thank you, uh, Dr.
Greg, for taking the time.
Yeah, no, it's been anincredible conversation.
I love being able to dig in withfellow behavioral scientists,
enthusiasts, counselors,psychologists on some of these
major issues.
That you're right.
(41:34):
What if the world actuallyabided by the law of I'm not
allowed, you know, it's illegalfor me to form an opinion until
I go through this process.
It would be a better world.
So I hope you continue to keepmaking a better world.
And just thank you for sharingyour knowledge and experience
and wisdom with our audiencehere today.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yeah.
Bless you, Jay.
Thank you.
I love the conversation, man.
SPEAKER_01 (41:53):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge.
We're together, we're shapingworkforce behaviors.
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where together we are shapingworkforce behaviors.
Today I am joined by guest Dr.
Greg Stewart, who is amultiple-time author, coach,
consultant, counselor, andsomebody who is no stranger to
behavior.
So welcome to the show, Dr.
Greg.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Uh, the pleasure of the course, all mine, Jay.
Thank you for having me, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
So we have learned that uh we shared some
geographical roots here.
And uh, but I wanted to talk toyou about your stories.
It's such an interesting one.
You've got uh theology, you'vegot counseling, you've got
organization.
Tell us, how did you get to thisplace?
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
All right.
So it's gonna start off superearly, but don't worry, it's
gonna go fast.
So uh I grew up not too far fromyou in uh Schoolcraft, Michigan,
Portage, Michigan.
And uh so go blue.
Oh, sorry, I had to say that.
So when I was a kid, like a lotof us went to church as kids,
and so I did too.
And that's when I, you know,believed in Jesus uh when I was
a kid, but my parents could goto church, which meant I could
(01:05):
go to church, and then I didthose awesome hardy, hardy teen
years, and then suffered theconsequences from those years
and then you know recommitted mylife to Christ.
So when I did that, I spent asummer in South America on a
missions trip and I went to aBible institute and I felt
called into the ministry.
So back in the 90s, way, wayback in the 90s, it's they
started the adult and continuinged programs for all of us who
(01:28):
had like 160 credit hours but nodegree.
And the uh degree that theyoffered at the time in the 90s
was, you know, the one night aweek for a year and you get your
degree is uh was inorganizational leadership,
right?
So got it and you know, wantedto get my bachelor's degree and
it was good material, but Iwanted to get to seminary, which
is I got a mat, started mymaster of divinity, which is the
Greek Hebrew theology.
(01:49):
But major moment number two, Iguess, would be after being
called the ministry was um myfirst semester in seminary, I
took philosophy of counseling.
And I was like, oh my gosh, thismaterial is phenomenal.
Like I can use this in ministryfor people, but then also
realizing I how many issues Ihad was coming to the surface
real quick, too, right?
That was a joke, right?
So then I got my MDiv in threeyears, and then in the year
(02:13):
2000, I got ordained, and but Imapped out a dual master's.
So I got my MDiv in three years,and then mapped out another
master's in counseling.
And between those two degrees inthe year 2000, like there's a
perfect storm.
So one is I was on vacation, Icame across the book Emotional
Intelligence by Daniel Goleman.
I was like, this is interesting.
So oh my gosh, uh, it waslife-changing.
So then, secondly, is I startedteaching um from uh as an
(02:38):
adjunct professor, just to earnsome extra money for my alma
lauder and all theorganizational leadership
courses I took in undergrad andthen fell in love with
leadership.
But number three is I wasunderneath uh a pastor and a
great guy, very moral andethical, but he had some
emotional stuff that was goingon like from childhood, and it
just we had a kind of a fallingout.
(02:59):
So they asked him to leave, Ibecame the senior pastor.
So the church I became aChristian as a kid, I actually
landed back at, I was a pastorthere at that same church for 15
years.
So it was definitely an honoringexperience.
So I got my MA counseling, andthen so at the time I was an
adjunct professor, I was apastor, I was a clinical
counselor, and then at when Ibecame the senior pastor, I got
my PhD in counselor educationsupervision, but I did my
(03:23):
dissertation on the relationshipof emotional intelligence with
job satisfaction, organizationalcommitment.
And after that, I startedworking with um, you know, uh
there's a medical devicecompany, head code in Kalmazou,
a very powerful one.
And that's where I had the VP ofHR of the largest division of
Tammy Church, and he brought mein to start doing coaching and
consulting.
So that's where I cut myorganizational development
(03:46):
coaching teeth on.
So after 15 years in the church,we moved to Texas in 2012.
And then for three years, Iworked for an assessments
company where we benchmarked topperformers and we did leadership
360s and I traveled all over thecountry.
Absolutely loved it, doingstrategic seminars for senior
leadership teams and thencoaching each of the members of
the senior leadership teams inuh developing the individual
(04:08):
development plans in personalityand um EI.
Loved it, but the company gotbought out, right?
And 80% of us got laid off.
So, Jay, if you've never beenlaid off, it's awesome.
You gotta try it, right?
So then I actually switched overto and became a director at a
behavioral health hospital.
So I've had a plethora ofthings, but that's how it kind
of developed, where I was, youknow, counseling and then
(04:30):
consulting and coaching.
So right now I see about 40clients a week in a mixture of
yeah, yeah, 40, 40 clients aweek, and I absolutely love it.
And work with them on everythingfrom the I call it negative 10
to positive 10, where negative10 to zero is like counseling,
where there's a lot of umemotions are getting in the way,
but then zero to positive 10 iscoaching where I'm helping them
(04:52):
become as effective and powerfulas they can be.
So that's in a nutshell, that'swhat's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
That's that's such an incredible story, and I love
the different sort of like areasbecause as a behavioral
scientist, one of the things Iknow is I started with just the
study of communication as thebehavior, and that wasn't
enough.
So then I studied psychology andthat wasn't enough.
And then I started studyingneuroscience, and it was just
like all of these differentfactors.
(05:19):
But across my experience, one ofthe things that has really
helped me was seeing people indifferent environments, you
know, their work environments.
Uh I one of the my favoritethings, you might you might
really appreciate this.
When I travel, I love going togrocery stores and just actually
seeing like how things are setup because you can learn a lot
(05:41):
about behavior just fromenvironment and context.
So let me ask you this.
Because this I think is kind ofan interesting, an interesting
question.
Between counseling, between uhspirituality, and between
organizations, what have youlearned that really kind of ties
maybe those three differententities together?
(06:03):
Or are there particularpractices that really work well
across all three of thosedifferent dynamics?
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
So I would say that the I I call them the same exact
like um techniques um andphilosophy and psychology is
across the board, but it's howyou package it.
So I'm actually going to go tobook number three.
So my first book um was oniCube, where I unlock the uh
industry behind your negativeemotions.
(06:30):
That's like the an individualcounseling one.
And then because I do so muchmarriage counseling, the second
book was iCube for Couples, um,facing our negative emotions to
build intimacy.
But my third book was ICube forLeaders, where the first two is
about the negative emotions andus like going deep and figuring
our hearts out.
But the third book has adifferent take on negative
emotions where it's unleashedthe rage of your negative
(06:53):
emotions against the obstaclesof becoming more.
So I'm gonna start there becauseand then go backwards.
So in my first chapter of thatbook, I'm becoming more, that's
where I do the psycho babble,like you know, our mental models
that we have to become more, andlike, you know, why do we keep
hitting this news button seventimes kind of thing, just lay
the groundwork.
But in chapter two, I talk aboutthe becoming more quotient,
(07:13):
right?
So there's this uh four, fourboxes where I I've always told
people that I coach or workwith, I said, look, if you can
find a book, a proverb, a quote,an article on leadership that
doesn't fit into one of thesefour, I'll buy you lunch, right?
Well, I still have that moneykind of thing, right?
So, real quick, it's it's fourareas.
So it's IQ, which is we're bornwith our IQ, right?
(07:37):
But the question is, what howhow does one human being
influence another human being,right?
Well, obviously, if somebodywith a high IQ, they're gonna be
influential, right?
But we're born with an IQ, butwhat we can do is we maximize
the goal is to maximize our IQthrough two things informal and
formal education, right?
So even if it's informal, Ithink there's PhDs walking
(07:59):
around all over the placebecause they're expert in their
fields, so be constant learns,but secondly, is learning
critical thinking skills, right?
Stuff like yeah, like uh problemsolving skills, like uh whether
it be to understand biases asopposed to like Bloom's
taxonomy, and there's just anumber of different ways.
So to learn critical thinkingskills.
(08:20):
Number two is the interplaybetween personality and
emotional intelligence, so IQ,EQ, and then personality.
So I make a statement in thebook where I do not know how we
can have a discussion aboutleadership without discussing
our personality, because it'sour approach where a strength
taken too far becomes aweakness, right?
So when I worked at theresidential treatment center
(08:42):
with teenage girls, they used tosay, Dr.
Greg, you're so extra.
And I thought it was acompliment, right?
But they didn't mean it as acompliment, right?
So it's a strength taken toofar.
Like I can become toodomineering, too impulsive, too
critical, or whatever.
And when it comes to leadership,the damage that happens when
you're either leading someone oror following somebody is really
(09:03):
much of it isn't really uh uhpersonality taken too far.
So I say personality ran throughthe machine of EI equals your
personal uh leadershipeffectiveness.
So that the interplay of there.
But number four is spiritualdevelopment and destiny.
Okay, so if you give mepermission, I'm just gonna um,
(09:24):
you know, bring in my theology.
So uh a lot of us at least knowthe story, like in the Bible,
that you know, God createdeverything, Genesis, you know,
chapters one and two, everythingwas great.
In Genesis three, we talk aboutthe fall, right, where Adam and
Eve sinned and everything wentto hell.
But then Genesis four throughtoday is both God and man
responding to what happened inGenesis three.
In Genesis four, though, it saysthat these descendants started
(09:47):
becoming shepherds and herdsmen,these descendants started
becoming making for me tools,and then these descendants
started making musicalinstruments.
When I saw the musicalinstruments, they're like,
that's interesting.
So here's my premise for helpingpeople develop their mission
statement, right?
So let me pause there and saythat for all the books, for
everybody, everything we do,Jay, is trying to achieve an
(10:09):
emotional goal.
I want to feel something likethe micro.
If I'm thirsty, I want to take adrink of my soda, um, or if I'm
tired and sleep, but then we'reall in pursuit of our macro
emotional goals, which are youknow, quality of life as
determined by standard ofliving, living our values, and
fulfilling destiny calling andpurpose.
And I don't care if you'rereligious or not, every human
(10:30):
being wants to feel that.
They want to feel like they'relike a legacy or feel like
they're they have a high qualityof life or heavier.
So in the spiritual developmentdestiny, Genesis 4, it's I say
that that every job ever, everytechnological advancement ever
is either trying to solve ahuman problem or enhance the
(10:51):
human experience.
So every company begins with anentrepreneur, right?
Uh caveman walks out and says,Well, this sucks and creates the
wheel, right?
So Howard Schultz, Starbucks,like something's missing here.
I want to create an experience.
Matter of fact, when I wrote mybook, I was on a cruise with my
wife, and I note that in thebook, it's cruises are not
solving human problems orenhancing human experience,
(11:12):
which is the musicalinstruments.
So when I help people developtheir mission statement, it's
deeper in the sense of they lookat the world, and I first begin
with what of all the problems inthe world, which one drives you
insane?
Like, like you can't stand it.
And there's a bunch of problems,but it's that one.
(11:33):
And whatever it is, here's thekey that every single time
somebody develops their missionstatement, it comes from their
personal experiences.
Yep.
That's right.
So that's where we developed themission statement.
So that's how it kind of allties in together is that there's
something deeper, and I cannottell you how many people have
signed up for counseling with mebecause, like, I loved on the
(11:53):
story of I had two doctors, onewas a radiologist, one was an
anesthesiologist from Houston.
They didn't know each other.
At the same time, they came tome and said, you know, I make
about 300K plus per year.
But it's like, is this it?
Over and over and over again.
So that's what's just missing.
I call it the Iron Man core,right?
It's that Iron Man, thatinexhaustible energy source.
(12:14):
That's your purpose and mission.
But that energy source was putthere to keep that shrapnel from
killing the heart, right?
That was the whole point of, youknow, saw Iron Man.
Without that core, the shrapnelis like life's annoyances, it's
taxes, it's traffic.
And without a purpose, the humansoul will I mean just like it
will shrivel up, right?
So that's where all of it kindof ties in together.
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, I love I love the quadrant approach there.
You know, when I think about sofor for those playing along at
home, if you're if you're notfamiliar, IQ meaning
intelligence quotient,generalized, uh standard,
standard intelligence.
And the EQ, uh, as youmentioned, Goldman, generally
(12:58):
has two different domains.
It's the domain of awareness andit's the domain of response.
And that is measured againstinternal versus social.
Um, the personality, there's anumber of different personality
assessments out there, whetherit's disk, Myers Briggs, whether
it's uh the actual clinicaldiagnostic in the OPIR or any of
the other ones.
(13:18):
And then we get to that sort ofspiritual, uh, the spiritual
legacy purpose.
I I love how you've kind ofpositioned those four things
because I do see not only everyleadership book, but I mean most
trainings or most uhorganizational development
programs would probably fallinto one of those different
things.
How are we achieving settingmission, goal, purpose,
(13:40):
strategy, direction versus howam I showing up each and every
day?
I want to dig in on theemotional side of things.
I I I would be remiss if Ididn't spend time with you on
emotions, right?
Emotions, in in most instances,we look at emotions as generally
autonomic, right?
They're part of the autonomicnervous system.
(14:01):
They pop up in differentaspects.
Uh, there's external stimuli,there's also internal stimuli,
how much rest I've had, how muchfood I've eaten, how many
aspects, right?
So we think that we have theseemotions.
We don't necessarily get toquote control our emotions.
I might feel jealous and thenregret feeling jealous, and then
(14:22):
regret feeling regret, and thenfeel guilty that I felt jealous.
I don't get to control that.
What are some of the ways?
Because these emotions, as youuh as you so accurately point
out, drive a number of, we'regonna call them uh negative
consequence behaviors.
I don't like to say badbehavior, I don't like to say
good behavior.
(14:42):
Every behavior has a purpose,it's serving an emotion or it's
serving a need.
Um, but some have negativeconsequences, some have
positive.
Yep, for sure.
How do we, how do we betterregulate some of those powerful
neurotransmission signals thatare hitting us that we call
emotions, and stop ourselvesfrom putting our foot in our
(15:05):
mouth, stopping ourselves frombeating ourselves up?
Because I think this is abehavior that we see in every
leader, in every HR place, everytalent development space.
How do how do we navigate that?
unknown (15:16):
Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
Garrett?
Right.
All right.
So one is that, yeah, it's it'sour mental model, right?
So our mental model gives anauto response, right?
And that's where we say we can'tcontrol, we can't control the
autoresponse, um, other than akey component of emotional
intelligence is impulse control,right?
So there's there are techniquesthat, and I've experienced it
(15:37):
where I am about ready to, youknow, punch a hole in the wall,
but I have to control.
So we can't control the energy,but we can control the
expression, right?
Okay, so one is that um I usethis illustration where I say
behind us is the house of ourheart, right?
And we're standing on the frontlawn, and before us are all
(15:57):
these things and people facingthe house of our heart, like
that are upsetting us, right?
Um, so let's say that Jay callsme a name, right?
Which he never would becausehe's so nice, right?
But let's say Jay calls me aname, and I use like I say
there's three tenets toemotions.
One is that emotion is energy,okay?
Think of emotions that sothere's good energy, right?
(16:17):
Quality of life, but you likeyou said, there's not bad, but
negative energy, and that'ssimply used to have to solve uh
solve problems.
Secondly, is to have the rightbrand or type of emotion.
Like when people a lot of peoplesay that I have anxiety, but
it's actually stress, likecontrol calm versus no control.
And it's huge because when ourfrontal lobe says I have
(16:38):
anxiety, our mental model willrespond as if there was
something out of our control,but that's not the case.
So we have to label itcorrectly.
But then have the right brand ortype and the right amount.
So a scale of one to ten.
So Jay calls me a name on ascale of one to ten, there's two
ways to assess it.
Like, what's the worst that canhappen?
Like, what bad happens becauseJay calls me a name on a scale
one to ten.
Well, it's like a point five,right?
And nothing, you know, but thenit's how much emotional energy
(17:00):
do I need to respond to it?
Like, Jay, stop it, right?
Now that's fine, but here's theissue that on the amount, the
issue is that even though itshould be a 0.5 or a one, I'm at
a six, seven, or eight.
And right there is I call it theinflation of emotions.
So, which we all have, but wehave that's where we have to
(17:21):
walk into them.
So I say, at that point, so yougot to turn around and walk in
the house of your heart becauselike I can't dump a six, seven,
or eight of emotional energy onJay because it's gonna get far
worse.
I'm not gonna, it's not gonna beemotionally intelligent and I'm
not gonna, it'll just damage,right?
So I have to stop.
I say you gotta put down themicroscope and pick up the
mirror, right?
(17:41):
And this we see this inorganizations, we see this in
our families everywhere.
So when I walk in the house ofmy heart, I say tenant number
three is that all negativeemotions exposing something in
you, right?
It sounds bad, but it's actuallyvery freeing.
So I work with every client andleader and say, look, as much as
possible, remove all power fromthe environment.
(18:05):
So a quote in my book is nothingbothers me unless it should,
right?
Because it should, if it shouldbother me, then you can't do you
can't be passive.
So in the first room isinsecurity, right?
Then I say that I do theemotions of insecurity, anxiety,
fear, worry, anger, depression.
So like anxiety is in thekitchen, right?
Fear is crouched in the hallway,worry is looking out the front
window, uh, anger is walkingaround the bedroom, and
(18:27):
depression is laying in bed.
So the first, the first majorreason for the inflation of
emotions is simply we believe alie.
As some lie, like, you know, Jaymeant it, he hates me, or some
people say, like, I'll never geta job.
And I cannot tell you how muchlike um here's the key emotions
(18:47):
don't produce themselves, theycome from sentences of
interpretation of mine, beliefs,ideas, right?
Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
Gray, let me ask a question on that.
Can the lie then also besomething of Jay's right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Right's right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
If I if I call a name, generally, whatever the
name is, right?
Oh, somebody that sort of justlike, you're right.
I am if I say this this is aterrible person, and somebody
goes, you know what, maybe Jay'sright.
I am a terrible person.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Can that also be the lie that we yeah, because you
can believe lies about yourself,right?
Which I would the first room isin that's why the first room's
insecurity.
Insecurity is like a like Ialways tell when I was I worked
at a hamburger joint in uhMichigan, and I was 14 years
old, and we were all friendsthere.
But Jay, I used to be a supersarcastic teenage guy, but you
can see I matured, right?
(19:38):
So I teased this girl once.
Uh, she was my friend, but Iteased her so bad one time I
made her cry.
And as she's walking away, Iremember the moment I yelled
out, you wouldn't get so tickedoff if it wasn't true.
And I pause, like while she'scrying, I pause and went, Oh my
gosh, Greg.
So every time you get upset,defensive, you know, butthers
they say or or whatever, it'sit's gotta be truth because when
I saw people trash talk, ifsomebody really wants to hurt
(20:01):
the feelings of another person,um, outside of your mama jokes,
that they they use truestatements.
Yeah, right, right.
Otherwise, it's just like Jay,I'm concerned.
We've got to, hey, foreverybody, like Jay, I'm
concerned about your hair andaddiction.
And you're like, okay, great,right?
If it's not true, so insecurityis something I don't like about
myself, but the issue is notthat, because we all have that.
(20:22):
The issue is I don't want itexposed, and not one exposed
where I get defensive, but ifit's true, right?
So you own it.
So the first thing is we couldagain we have to assess it, is
it true or not true?
Right?
So I'm just saying, like, ifit's like I'll never get a job.
Well, that's not true.
What you could say, you have toreplace it.
So you have to replace the liveswith truth, meaning, look, if
(20:42):
I'm honest with myself, I didn'ttry very hard in high school and
college.
So what kind of job am Iexpecting to get?
But if I work hard, learn totrade, go back to college, I
can, but it's about the truthbecause that produces the right
amount of negative energy toburn, right?
So rise is the number onereason.
Secondly, is off the room ofinsecurity is a doorway that
goes into the basement.
(21:03):
And in the basement is themachine of identity, value, and
worth, right?
Whenever we say that we'retaking things personally, what
we're saying is whatever thenegative event is, it's
impacting our value and worth,and it should not.
And when you talk about like uhleaders with Napoleon's disease
or insecure leaders, or they gota post up or where the case is
(21:27):
and like positional power,that's what it, that's what
we're talking about.
It's it's impacting their value,their significance, and it
shouldn't.
And there's a whole processideal with that.
But number three, often theoften the basement is the dark,
dingy cellar door of trauma.
Now, there's big T officialtrauma, which very few of us
have experienced, but almostevery single one of us have
(21:48):
experienced little T trauma,where a bad experience that just
rocks our world.
So that could be the carryovereffect where I'm reminded, like
my mental model goes, oh great,Greg, here we go again, and it
scoops up the emotion from thepast and dumps it.
So those are three major reasonsfor the inflation.
So that's where, yeah, it's anauto-response, man, but we got
to walk into those negativeemotions because if I'm sitting
(22:10):
there just burning all thisemotional energy on the
microscope on Jay, it's likewhat I'm saying is the solution
to my negative emotions is Jaychanging.
Well, I'm I'm screwed, right?
So no, I I want I need to dealwith Jay on the point five or
one, but the inflation is myissue.
That's where I say in all threebooks, you've got to walk into
that and figure that out becausethat's your issue, not theirs.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
Well, and it it it seems to me, and I love that you
brought in the concept ofreframing, right?
Like, okay, well, this is thelie that I'm telling myself.
I need to replace that.
With what is the actual truththat I need to be telling
myself?
Maybe I didn't work as hard.
Maybe I think that really kindof goes to the core of
ownership, right?
Like stepping into our own powerand not necessarily being
(22:54):
subjected to our own ruminationsor our own interpretations,
because that can be reallydangerous.
Am I getting that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah.
So you have to, it's just aconstant process of like a long
time ago, Jay, I've alreadyassessed, like, I said, look, my
mental model is cuckoo for cocapous.
I mean, I'm sold because I don'thave all the information in any
situation.
And the formulas by which Iprocess information, if they're
gonna be off.
(23:22):
So then I need to be teachable.
Like, so going back toleadership, when I work to
senior leadership teams, I'd askthe question like who are the
worst leaders you've ever beenunder and who are the best.
Invariably, there's a bunch ofanswers, but there's always two
that rose to the top.
The first one is they don'tlisten, right?
Which means they're on agenda,like they're or secondly,
(23:43):
they're not teachable.
So I'm being tea, yeah, goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I was gonna say the listen to stick with that one
for a second, kind of made methink about the walking into the
basement in your analogy of notfeeling valued, not feeling
worth like, oh, I'm not evenworth listening to.
You're not valuing my opinion.
So, like in that regard, I cansee a leader who doesn't listen
(24:07):
is essentially tapping into thatbasement level for somebody of
saying, Why am I even here?
Does it is with that?
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
It's it's definitely because why aren't you
listening?
Because you it could be a pridething, you're not, you don't
care what this person says.
Um, but it's really about likeit could be about value and
worth, or not listening meansthat I am speaking truth to you,
that you that something needs tochange here or you need to
change, and you're like, you'reno, because what is pride?
Pride is nope, Jay.
(24:36):
I've got all the information Ineed at all times, and my
formulas are spot on, so no,thank you.
That's pride, right?
So I talk about the Jihariwindow model when it comes to
the blind area.
Like again, I learned that as akid.
The blind area that Jay seessomething about me that I don't
see, freak me out.
So I came up with two tech, twothings that I add to every
(24:56):
single leader's individualdevelopment plan.
One is the practice of the skillof empathy, restating using
synonyms, what people say.
And I've got a technique for it,right?
Because why?
It is about the humanexperience, right?
So when the best leaders, flipit, the best leaders are the
ones who listen.
Like, man, I was talking to theCEO at the curses party, and I
was like, I was the only personin the room.
(25:18):
That's where you get likereferent power because the CEO
cares just on a human basis, butthe CEO is like, everybody's got
good ideas, right?
So number one is just empathy,but secondly, I call it
proactive teachability.
So I asked the question what isyour plan or strategy for
eradicating your blind area?
(25:39):
Because if you don't see it,right, what's your plan?
It can't be reactiveteachability.
Why?
Because everybody's afraid ofconflict.
I can't wait for Jay to walkinto my office and say, Greg,
dude, you are blind becausewe're afraid of conflict.
So I'm not gonna wait for that.
So every leader, I say eitherone person a week or two people
a week, go out to people andsay, Jay, how can I grow?
(26:00):
Where do you think I'm blind?
And Jay will be nice to me.
I'm like, Jay, no, I want likethere's 10% in the back of your
brain that you would never everever tell me I want that for two
reasons.
One one is you could bebelieving something about me
that I'd like to correct that'snot true about me, or you might
see something about me that Idesperately need to see.
(26:21):
So, like, lay it on me.
Like, I sacrifice myself, likethat's pro-teachability.
Every leader needs to, and thenthink about what pro-active
teachability, because everyhuman being, it's like a human
thing, everybody kind of sitsback and says, Man, I wish my
leader would do that.
I wish my spouse would do that.
Well, I should do that.
So every human being should.
So when leaders in the orgleadership teams do proactive
(26:43):
teachability, it changes theculture of the organization.
It's powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
You you totally tripped a story in my mind of
something that was reallymeaningful at one point in time.
Now, when I was coming up, uhwhen I was growing up, I'm gonna
call it, you know, 15, 20 yearsago, as I was doing leadership
and everything else like that.
I I was a former competitivedebater uh in the university.
(27:09):
I I'm very competitive ingeneral.
Some people would call me extraas well, or maybe overly
extroverted, or anything else.
Well, when I was in thosepositions, I would always
advocate so passionately, sodirectly.
And I always looked fairlyconfident in what I was saying
because that's how I wastrained.
I ended up, I ended up at aleadership conference, and it's
(27:33):
one of my dear friends.
Hopefully he's listening.
I'll give him a little creditfor it.
His name's Justin and uh JustinWoodski, who uh we ended up
getting partnered and having touh share a room during this
experience, this retreat.
And uh I didn't think anythingof it.
We go into the retreat, it'sawesome, we have a great time.
Justin and I stay up laughingand talking and sharing stories,
(27:54):
etc.
Well, afterwards, I'm like,Justin, this has been really
great.
He's like, Yeah, Jay, it has.
He's like, honestly, I wasdreading this.
And I was like, what?
He's like, Well, I you you'rejust so different than I
thought.
You know, I see you as you'representing or whatever, and
you're just domineering andyou're you're aggressive in this
and that and the other thing.
(28:14):
I had never perceived myself asthat.
I perceived myself as confidentand passionate.
But then it was something thathe had opened up this complete
blind spot to me.
And I I I am I tell this story,he's heard me tell this story.
I'm so grateful for that.
Like that was the 10% in theback of somebody's mind that's
not coming out.
So I really, really appreciatethat tactic of no, tell me what
(28:37):
you don't want to tell mebecause that's the only way I'm
gonna grow.
From that point forward, Ireally shifted a lot of
behaviors because I didn't wantto be perceived that way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Right.
And real quick, so so that's whyI love EI because, you know,
like you said, there's self andothers, self-awareness, others
awareness, self-management,others management, or
relationship management.
But the chronological flow isself-awareness first, right?
Yeah, like what am I thinking,feeling?
What's my current?
But I think that the key to EI,the brilliance of EI, the
mastery of EI is in the secondone, which is others' awareness,
(29:09):
which I've relabeled tosituational awareness.
Yeah.
Because the situation is theking, it's the brick wall, it's
not moving.
True EI is to be able to, whichis number three,
self-management.
So if the situation and I match,like Greg, you be you, but if
there is a gap at all, I can'tlook at the situation, which a
(29:31):
lot of foolish leaders do andsay, you mold yourself to me.
No, I need to be emotionallyintelligent and imitate the
right approach, like the eitherextrovert, introvert people, or
and so in some situations, somepeople would look at you and
say, Oh gosh, I actually thoughtJay was pretty tame.
But to other temperaments,they're like, Whoa, that dude is
(29:52):
intense because the situationdetermined about personality,
who the person is or the groupis, right?
So it's so we we read thesituation.
And we mold ourselves to it.
That is EI in a nutshell.
And for like number the lastone, relationship management, I
separate that out because I inmy book, I just give a bunch of
communication skills that we canuse because what's relationship
(30:14):
management?
It's communication, right?
So the actual flow isself-awareness, situational
awareness, self-management.
But that's what you're talkingabout is he sees you as this
intense guy.
Whereas you and I'd be like, oh,I thought I thought Jay was
pretty chill, right?
Right.
It's about perception, right?
Based upon the situation.
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
So let's make this practical if we can.
I'm going to go back tosomething that you had said
earlier because I think this isso powerful, right?
And becoming aware that ouremotions are driving a number of
our behaviors in the workplaceor even in personal life,
starting to look at somesituations.
Let's go back to that personthat you had brought up.
You had said, uh, you know, theperson at the office that's so
(30:53):
angry they want to put theirfist through the wall.
Okay.
You had mentioned there's acouple of tactics maybe that you
could do in that very moment togain, grab awareness, and to
essentially walk ourselves backfrom that.
And I I love the concept of kindof going into the heart and
those.
In the moment, we know that youknow, cortisol, adrenaline,
(31:14):
norepinephrine, all of thatpumping into the brain.
It's not creating the conditionsfor us to be as rational as we
potentially could be.
What are some practical,tactical behaviors that we can
do instantly to stop ourselvesor give ourselves maybe a little
bit of that space to make abetter behavioral decision?
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
Right.
Okay.
So whether it be I'm observingthat person or I am that person,
right?
So in my first book in chapterone, so when I talked about
everything we do is achieving anemotional goal, right?
I didn't say that that's great.
All the emotional goals aregood, but the issue is the path
we take to achieve the emotionalgoal.
We have to assess the action,the behavior, the path to
(31:56):
achieve the emotional goal,which I use all the way through
my books is RHWR, rational,healthy, wise, and right.
For instance, if I'm trying toachieve the emotional goal of
I'm stressed out, I don't wantto be stressed, but I choose the
pathway of drinking alcoholevery day at five, right?
It achieves the emotional goal,but it's not rational, healthy,
wise, and right.
My point is that a greatde-escalator of intensity and
(32:18):
conflict is always like alwayspoint out and agree with because
you can the person's emotionalgoal.
And I say for you, separate theemotional goal because we get
angry.
Anger is a result of blockedgoals.
There's a there's an actualphysical goal, and then there's
an emotional goal, like I'mfeeling disrespected.
(32:40):
That's an emotional goal.
So whether we we observesomebody who's super angry,
immediately connect to thatperson on their emotional goal,
right?
We often go after the path, likedon't do that.
But as soon as we attack theaction without the validation of
the emotional goal, everybodymerges the emotional goal with
the path.
So they see us as blocking theemotional goal as well.
(33:03):
But it's like, I'm not gonna bedisrespected.
See, it's like I right, soimmediately start begin with, I
want you to be respected, right?
I want this goal achieved, soagree with the emotional goal,
but then you can see to separatethe path, the action, the
response from the emotionalgoal.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
So, from an internal side, is that a practice that
maybe like if I'm experiencingthis anger, I might say, okay,
hey, here's why?
And and really kind of justbeing like, it's okay for me to
feel angry.
It's not okay for me to put myhands on that wall.
The anger that I'm feeling is aresult of being blocked.
Is this, is this?
What else could I do to overcomethat barrier?
(33:42):
Is that kind of what you mean?
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
Exactly.
And so, like every emotion, likethey say anger is a secondary
emotion, but what that actuallymeans is that, you know, first
of all, like insecurity,anxiety, fear, worry, anger.
So if you say I'm insecure, I'manxious, I'm afraid, I'm
worried, I'm like, those areunderdog emotions.
But as soon as you go angry,your focus goes from what I'm
feeling to outward again, whichmeans you're blowing it, you're
putting all the power in theexternal.
(34:05):
My point is like when I talkabout number two is to have the
right label or type, like Isaid, anxiety versus stress.
With anger, you got to firstlike what goals of mine are
being blocked?
And then secondly, you got tograb that puppy and drag it
below the line again and say,because all anger is a result of
fear.
And it completely disarms us,where we that's like a technique
(34:27):
because anger, I'm againfocusing on you.
It's it's I'm angry at, but if Isay, but what goal of mine is
being blocked?
Back to internal, and what am Iafraid of?
What's the worst that can happenif Jay keeps calling me that
name or whatever it is, right?
It's a result of fear.
So we have to like bring thepower back inside of us and say
(34:48):
it's our issue first before wecan go out to address it, right?
So that's what we're talkingabout is like number one, is
emotional goal from path.
And then secondly, it's how do Irespond with what's actually
happening with the labels ofthese emotions, especially when
it comes to anger?
Anger is always a result offear.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
It's this is such a powerful conversation because
you know, whether we're whetherwe're working in retail, uh real
estate, whether we're working inthe manufacturing floor, or
whether we're working in anexecutive office, there's going
to be those aspects whereemotions come into play and they
try to hijack whatever ourdecision-making processes are.
(35:28):
It it seems to me one of thethings that could be a real big
value for people, and help meunderstand if I'm right here, is
maybe learning the nuancesbetween the different emotional
labels.
So maybe studying the emotionwheel and saying, okay, is this
really fear or is this moreanxiety, or is this more stress,
(35:49):
or is this more excitement, oris this more joy, or and really
kind of nuancing becauselanguage is limited, but it's
all we have.
So if we're able to, if we'reable to maybe communicate those
feelings more effectively, doesthat help, Dr.
Greg?
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Yeah, like there, I have an emotional wheel and
there's an emotional chart withhundreds of emotions.
And when you're able to, like,especially when you restate
somebody, hey, it's not that Ithat I'm feeling um upset, it's
just I'm more despondent.
Well, the nuance differencebetween discouraged and
despondent, right?
So when you're able to restate,like, yes, it's exactly what I'm
feeling.
That's one.
But let me kind of flip it andI'm gonna kind of you know end
with the I cubed process becauseI put the chapter on I cubed at
(36:29):
the end of each book becauseit's like this little technique
summarizes all the psychobabble, if you will.
So, real quick, the IQ processis like the Panama Canal.
So the first lock has to fill upbefore the second lock opens,
right?
So information, interpretation,intensity.
So on information, that lock hasto fill up before you can go to
interpretation.
So the rule is that, and Iapplied this years ago, 25 years
(36:54):
ago, I'd say, Greg, it isillegal, I like that word,
illegal for me to have anyopinion interpretation or any
emotion intensity until I haveall the information.
Right?
Because how many times has beenlike, no, Greg, it's not that,
it was this, and suddenly I'mlike, oh, one little piece of
information.
Right.
So here, like biases.
(37:15):
Now, I always like to say,imagine if that one rule was
applied in our culture andsociety, it is illegal to have
any opinion or any emotion untilyou have all the information.
It would change the world,right?
So let's say, right, theinformation fills up.
The second one is where we getinto critical thinking, which is
interpretation.
That the rule there is simplylike you'd be in negative,
(37:38):
neutral, and positive, right?
So obviously you're thinkingnegative about something, but
the key thing is on criticalthinking, is there any other way
of looking at it?
And this is where you step outof your emotion.
So forget like the nuances, likestep out of your emotion.
And what I have found over andover again is there are several,
like five, six, or seven, I workwith clients, like there's could
be six statements that arealmost like paradoxical, they're
(38:00):
like completely opposite, butthey all are true and coexist in
how to interpret thisinformation.
Well, on the one hand, this, onthe other hand, that.
But all of them stories we tellourselves and that's oh my gosh,
I use that phraseology in mybook, right?
So so once you lay out all thestatements of interpretation,
here's what's weird is theemotions, like the intensity,
(38:21):
are like almost like a dominoeffect where they just naturally
play out because your emotionswill be like go up and down
according to the informationinterpretation.
So, like you can either go intothe emotions, like when you're
being exposed, or use the IQtechnique where I'm first gonna
get the information and thencritically think, step out of
myself.
What are all the ways tointerpret this?
(38:42):
And then just naturally comesthe amount of emotional energy,
and then I can determine how torespond to it.
So it kind of flips it on itshead.
So I always I end the books withthat one technique because it's
like the summary of all thestuff that came before it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
I think it's a powerful thing.
And I also think I really likeactually like how you had
mentioned Bloom's taxonomy.
So for any of our trainers thatare listening to us, they're
gonna know exactly what that is.
But it does kind of remind me ofthat of that first level of
learning is just like, can Irecall it?
Can I understand it?
Can I, and then I can move tothe like, okay, can I interpret
(39:18):
it?
Can I evaluate it?
And then can I apply it?
And can I actually create withit or design with it?
So uh it seems to me that it itfollows almost that natural uh
learning process.
I get the information once Ihave it, I can then evaluate it.
Once I can evaluate it, then Ican actually apply whatever the
(39:40):
response uh appropriate.
I'm gonna say appropriateresponse is.
You know, going then becausesomebody finished off the orange
juice is probably not theappropriate level of response
where, you know, maybe a maybe ashort conversation could resolve
it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
Right.
And then in my checker oncritical thinking, so on Bloom's
Techonomy, like obviously thebottom three levels are all
about the training, like uhinform our knowledge,
comprehension, application.
So I call it training byrhetorical question, right?
Do you think people like it whenyou say hi to them?
Right.
So kind of thing, but the topthree levels is where I get into
the book, where it's analysis,synthesis, evaluation, and like
(40:16):
how can we take those threetopics to like with senior
leadership teams to break downall of your business assumptions
and strategies and breakeverything down, saying there is
a there is a a way to break allthis down so I can that's the
interpretation.
So, yes, there's knowledgecomprehension application, but
let's let's step back and say,what are we all dealing with
here on this topic?
(40:37):
Because again, instead of themicro, we have to look more
macro and break it all downtheoretically, then synthesis,
bring it all back together.
So I even tap into the upperthree levels when it comes to
even start strategy planning.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
This has been an incredible conversation, Dr.
Greg.
And I want to say thank you forthat.
But before I do, if our audiencewanted to get in touch with you,
how would they reach out to you?
SPEAKER_00 (40:59):
So if you can see my name on the screen, Dr.
Greg Stewart, just takeout theperiod.com.
All right, this is D R G R E G SE W R T dot com.
That's right, I like that,right?
So drgregstewart.com and I haveeverything there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
That's beautiful.
So I will make sure that we getthat into the show notes.
But thank you, uh, Dr.
Greg, for taking the time.
Yeah, no, it's been anincredible conversation.
I love being able to dig in withfellow behavioral scientists,
enthusiasts, counselors,psychologists on some of these
major issues.
That you're right.
(41:34):
What if the world actuallyabided by the law of I'm not
allowed, you know, it's illegalfor me to form an opinion until
I go through this process.
It would be a better world.
So I hope you continue to keepmaking a better world.
And just thank you for sharingyour knowledge and experience
and wisdom with our audiencehere today.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yeah.
Bless you, Jay.
Thank you.
I love the conversation, man.
SPEAKER_01 (41:53):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge.
We're together, we're shapingworkforce behaviors.
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