September 16, 2025 • 48 mins
Join us as Mark Goldhart and Trevor Crump explore the critical importance of creative velocity and diversity in digital advertising. They dive into how uploading varied content more frequently can lead to lower CPMs and better overall ad performance. The duo shares insights on leveraging user-generated content, the value of static ads, and why aiming for "lightning in a bottle" isn't a sustainable strategy. They also touch on the Pareto principle in advertising and draw parallels with sports to illustrate the need for consistent, predictable outcomes in marketing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's hard to have a legitimate process around just
like.
Oh, I'm just gonna hone in on,like, making four perfect ads.
Okay, good luck.
Lightning in a bottle is not apredictable outcome, right, it's
just not.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is MarkGoldhart, and as always, he is
on his phone looking atsomething.
How are you?
Oh, I'm doing well.
Do you do it on purpose now,because I call it out?
No, I don't, because he's noton his phone always throughout
(00:31):
the podcast.
It's just it'll fall down inmaybe 12 seconds He'll put it
down.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, now I'm going to have to hold it on for longer
than that 13 seconds.
No, I don't do it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm not mad about it, but um become a part of your
brand now I learned somethingnew this week.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I learned that I never knew what a truffle
actually was do you know what atruffle is?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
isn't a truffle some sort of fungus?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
yeah, yeah, I didn't know what it was.
Yeah, because there's chocolatetruffles.
Yes, but it's made out of somesort of it's a fungus, fungus
Found at the base of trees.
Yeah, like a mushroom.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But is it, but not?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Not a mushroom, it's not a mushroom, not a mushroom,
and my parents brought back somehoney and truffles from Italy.
Okay, so it's like a jar ofhoney with truffles, like a
little truffle mixed in.
Yeah, I honestly didn't knowwhat I was expecting, but it had
the most bizarre smell ever.
(01:39):
Yeah, like a little stinky Likealmost peppery and oniony.
Yeah, and I didn't know what itwas like.
I honestly have never had atruffle.
So that's fun.
And was it good?
It was good.
It's just so unique beyond whatmy palate is used to.
Yeah, it was pretty.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh, you just exploring diversifying,
culturing yourself, I get yeah,I don't know where you get
truffles.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't know who.
Do people just get them andcook with them regularly?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, they're kind of a delicacy, I mean, you have like
yeah, I think trufflesthemselves right, but then you
have like sauces that have likethat are like a truffle sauce.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
You know that you can buy Like we have like a truffle
balsamic vinaigrette.
That is really tasty, right?
You know like.
So I know that yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But like the sauces and stuff, but I never knew what
an actual truffle.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And my guess is some of those sauces are probably
like, manufactured Like.
Did you know?
Here's something Did Like didyou know here's something Did
you know that Sourdough?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Hey, yes, I did.
Have we talked about thisbefore?
I don't know, but I know that'swhere you're going Sourdough.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
90% of the sourdough bread that you buy and eat is
not sourdough.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
What is that it's?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
white bread with vinegar in it.
It's like that was like themost shocking thing in the world
.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It does not actually have the sourdough starter or
the fungus or whatever it'sprobably more than 95%.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And I don't know what the ruling is behind being able
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I know that because my wife has told me that a
hundred times over the last twoyears.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, well, I think I found it out by my wife a
couple of years ago.
I was like let's get somesourdough bread, cause I love
the taste of it, and so I likeget sourdough.
And I come, like I came backhome and she like immediately
grabs the ingredients.
I'm like listen, I know I gotthe good stuff.
It says it's organic.
It says it's organic bread,just not real sourdough.
(03:46):
And and I was like that seemslike the most Devious, dishonest
thing in the entire world.
Sourdough bread is notSourdough bread, it's vinegar
bread.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh dude.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Which makes it sound even more disgusting.
I do love vinegar, though, so Iactually do as well, but
there's Not like salt andvinegar chips man, is there
anything better?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You want to hear a funny, not Like salt and vinegar
chips.
Man, is there anything better?
You want to hear a funny storyabout vinegar, salt and vinegar?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
chips are great, I agree.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I can't remember what brand it is.
It's one of the avocado oiltype brands.
Yep, I know exactly what you'retalking about and it's pretty
spicy.
Yeah, it has a kick to it.
There's salt and vinegar.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's a good one .
Speaker 1 (04:21):
But man, it's so good Is it the Siesta one.
Yeah, the Siesta one.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Those are the ones we get Funny story about vinegar.
So one of my I shouldn't saythis is a funny story because
there's some sadness to it butone of my best friends growing
up became addicted to Oxycontinand him and I were chatting.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And this is coming back to us.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yes, yes, it's coming back to me.
I promise he's addicted and Imean he's down like a dark and
dreary road and this is this isin like 10th grade, you know,
and he, uh, like he used tospend like he has.
He said that in order to umcurb his habit, he had to come
up with $250 a day to curb hishabit.
(05:04):
So he's like stealing fromparents, grandparents,
girlfriends, grandparents I meanhe was super dark place.
Anyways, he comes to school,shows up to school one day
completely hairless, like likebig waxed bald head, no
eyelashes, no eyebrows, no hair,completely hairless.
Looks like a psychopath and I'mlike I'm going to call him
(05:29):
Steve His name is not Steve,just for the sake of anonymity,
not that anyone's probablylistening that I went to high
school with and I do not knowwhere this man is today.
Hopefully he's alive, but he,I'm like Steve what happened?
And he's like, oh, dude, and hewas kind of known to be like an
airhead.
He's like I was high and I hada drug test for parole and
(05:58):
they're random and I didn't knowthat it was happening.
And you find out like a couplehours before and they say
there's like very few thingsthat you can do to get rid of,
like get the drugs out of yoursystem.
And he said that somebody toldhim that if he drank like like a
liter of vinegar that it wouldflush his system out.
(06:22):
Oh, and so he did it and hadjust this bodily reaction and
all of his hair fell out.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Oh, don't do drugs, kids, don't do drugs.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Ladies and gentlemen, so sad but funny story.
I actually think his life isgood, that one I do know.
He is, I think, on a betterpath to life.
Good, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's what vinegar is Vinegar.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's got the power to clean just about anything.
Apple cider vinegar though isbut like a tablespoon of it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Or two.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, a couple tablespoons a day keeps the
doctor away.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That kicks.
But Any stomach issue you'vegot.
Go get some apple cider vinegar.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
My grandpa swears by it.
He's been doing it for the lastfour years.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
It helps with everything.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Everything.
It's the most nasty thing inthe world.
It tastes terrible.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But why is that?
Why are all the good things inlife gross?
When I say good things in life,the things that are good for
you?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
are the hardest things to do why is that a
universal law?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
metaphor of life why, wouldn't our evolution, though,
actually make us crave thestuff that we don't want because
it's good for us.
Like, why don't I crave kaleand spinach?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I do oh, maybe, maybe not kale and spinach
specifically, but I like, I, Icrave, like greens every single
morning.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I would say 90% of people don't crave greens.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I crave like that Redmond salt relight.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That's because it's flavored and it tastes good.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
No, even though we have the unflavored, I just like
my body craves it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The salt yeah, I don't know.
Anyways, speaking of why is allthe good stuff across a hard
line marketing?
Nice it is getting harder.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Always is.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But the good stuff is across lines of being
uncomfortable and lines of hardto do.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So one thing we we just wanted to give everybody a
few updates of what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
We have access to quite a few accounts.
We look at them, we've auditedaccounts, we run accounts, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
We have access to dozens and dozens and that
doesn't mean we're.
The fun thing is when you havean ad agency like us, even
though we're not working withpeople, like maybe if we audited
somebody's account or yeah, sowe still get to see accounts.
You still can aggregate and see, because very few people take
you out of it.
So take your old agencies outif you don't want them in there.
(09:22):
Not us, though.
Don't take us out, because wewant to look at data.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Sorry, proceed.
So, anyways, what we're seeingacross the board is there's a
few things that matter.
One is and you've probablyheard these terms it's just
creative velocity.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
so velocity is what we deem as how often you're
uploading creative and creativediversity which means meaning
how different is your creativefrom each other and that could
be two different things.
I'm thinking of that could beformat wise video versus versus
static.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, I think people think of it as a format, yeah,
but what it really is is context.
So a testimonial ad versus apiece of UGC versus Versus an
old woman versus a young womanversus a yeah.
Content type yeah Versus aunboxing yes.
(10:24):
Content type yeah Versus aunboxing yes.
In a house versus a productusage on a picnic table Versus
branded content from aninfluencer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So Point is made.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, everything is just different context of the
creative and we'll go into howwe frame that and how we like to
manage it now.
But yeah, I think and that'shard, it's hard to do because
everybody is busy and now it'sexpected that more ads are being
(10:57):
uploaded yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think one thing to note, and this is just like a
universal thing that we haverecognized, as we've worked with
brands that are small, um, andas we've worked with brands that
are, you know so, brandsspending 30, 40 000 a month in
ads, compared to brands spending500 000, you know dollars, a
month in ad spend, or more.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Each one of these brands struggle with the same
issue, which is constantlyrefueling their content engines
yes, because, and part of thereason, there's two reasons for
this happening, but the mainreason is just user behavior on
the platform.
So I know we like to blame thealgorithm and, yes, I I'm not a
(11:44):
big fan of some of the changesthat meta makes, yep, but the
reality is that users aredriving a lot of these changes.
So what is the user behaviorthat has changed?
Well, in the last five years,they have gone from feed base to
story base, to reels base yep,if we're talking instagram, okay
(12:09):
, and even, and then facebook ismore community driven and like
there's maybe a little more feedaspect there but you they have
the same, but people operate onfacebook differently than they
operate on like an instagram.
And then you have tiktok, whichis, you know, a mere version of
that story, slash real typecontent.
And so what's the differencebetween feed versus stories,
(12:32):
versus reels is, well, attentionspan.
That's what's like.
That's what's changing, right?
Like people, when they weregoing through the feed, it was
first chronological, so peoplewere engaging with what they
knew and who they knew.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Stories continued that trend, but it was more of a
hey, you got 30 seconds, Like astory was 30 seconds it was
just like snippets.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, and then reels, which, yes, they can be long,
but the point with the reels andTikTok TOK is the consumer
behavior on there is very uh,it's quick, it's, but it's also
just like it's just adistraction, like they're just
doom scrolling.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
In a way that they weren't with just the Instagram
feed back in the day.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Right, because now it's they the day.
Yeah right, because now it'sthey're getting hit with, just
like what's the mostentertaining thing.
They're just looking for pureentertainment, not necessarily
getting entertained by thepeople yeah, like how do I get
dopamine as quick as possible?
yeah, yeah, and for that's.
I mean, that's thepsychological side of it, for
sure.
But so that's changed the waythey're consuming, which means
they get sick of things quicker,like they're looking for new
(13:39):
things faster, and you have tochange up the type of ads and
placements or else you knowthey're just swiping right
through.
So standing out this is just acontinuation of what we talked
about.
Standing out is, if you justreally make it simple, it's
frequency too.
Like standing out isn't justhow great your one ad is, it's
also how frequently you'reshowing up in somebody's life so
(14:02):
that they're associating youwith oh, this is a real thing,
this is interesting.
Oh, it must be a good product,whatever you're trying to
achieve with that frequency.
So how do you get the frequency?
Like we've talked aboutfrequency today, we want to talk
about how you actually and theright kind of uh kpis in in meta
(14:24):
.
Yeah, there's arguments outthere around what kpis you
should be looking forward orlooking to and optimizing for.
Some people say it's purchaseperiod.
Some people say you shouldstill be looking at hook rates
and click through rates.
We think you should look at allof them.
Obviously, purchase is.
Purchase is the most important.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And ROAS, and you know not ROAS, roas is a lie.
Sure, but making sure yourbusiness result is being
achieved, right, sure, yeah,yeah.
But you have to be looking atthese engagement metrics.
But what we have noticed is, asyou load, more diversity and
you have more velocity.
One thing that we have seen isCPMs in these accounts generally
(15:01):
drop.
Yeah, right, the algorithm isrewarding the amount and the
differentiation, yep, so notonly are you getting better
reach, which is what you'retrying to do, you're also
getting better CPMs.
Yep and better CPMs elicitgenerally lower cost per clicks,
which is what which generallycan convert into better cost per
(15:25):
purchase.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah.
So I think there's a, I thinkthere's this big.
Let's start with this and thenwe can dive into how to get good
frequency in some of thesethings.
But I just want to make a pointwhich is one of the big
resistance that we see clientsand brands, like I said, small
versus large is they're feelinglike I have enough content
already.
I don't need to continue to getmore, right?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So either, which is often true at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yes, but the problem with that is, depending on a
buyer's life cycle and how muchmoney you spend, you can go
through content relatively quickand the creative life cycle,
exactly, yep so.
And then I know you can kind ofpiece.
You know you can take twodifferent ads and you can put
them together to have three.
(16:13):
Right, like that kind of stuffcan happen.
But I think what will happen alot of times is brands will get
a good amount of content intheir content repository and
they'll kind of just whetherthey put a complete pause on it
or they, rather than being at100, you know, going 100 miles
an hour, maybe they're onlygoing 20 miles an hour, so
(16:34):
they're just like kind of slowlygetting stuff in.
I think that that's the problemis because they can have early
velocity and eventually theystart to hit a period of time
where they're running out of theright amount of content, and so
part of the reason brands dothis is because there's a
budgetary constraint.
Right, it costs money to get toget creative, and a lot of
(16:58):
times brands have a hard timetying dollars and cents to the
creative that they're gettingright now, in this very second.
But what mark has just said andwhat he's laid out is like it
is a very common pattern for us,when we upload a high amount of
content diversity that we seecpms lower, and if you lower
(17:18):
your cps from $16 to $14, that'san insane.
It doesn't seem like a big drop.
But on the back end when I sayback end, I mean what your cost
per clicks end up being to, thenwhat your cost per purchases
end up being as long as you know, website performance stays
similar it's actually a crazybig dip in efficiency savings,
(17:40):
which pays for the cost of thecreative and maybe even more.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yes, it does, and you might be wondering well, how
does it lower CPMs?
It's because when you havediversity and velocity, the
algorithm rewards you with oh,we need to find the right people
that match this.
It's trying to match your ads.
You are creative with thepeople, so you have to hone in
(18:07):
on the message, the content andthe context.
So how do you get so?
velocity is just more so I don'tknow, I don't think we have to
go into that right now.
We'll explain how you can dothat with product seeding after
we explain diversity.
So how do you get product?
Or, I'm sorry, how do you getcreative diversity?
(18:30):
So A we like to think in anumbrella of context first.
So who, what, why and where?
Who, what, why, where, Likethat's your context.
Who's in the ad, what's in thead, where it is in the ad and
why?
Yep, and the why is alwaysgoing to go back to the
(18:52):
customer's why.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So we don't need to go into that.
I think everyone talks aboutthat.
Yep.
So very simple.
We all learn that, right?
What's the subject of anysentence?
You know so like who, what,where, why?
Yep, so find that out, that'syour context, and then you start
grouping it.
So who?
Sometimes there's nobody.
(19:14):
Yeah, sometimes it's just aproduct.
Yeah.
Or it's a 18 to 25 year oldwoman or man, or it's a pregnant
lady family, or it's a 18 to 25year old woman or man or it's a
pregnant lady.
What a family or it's a baby, orit's like who is who's in the
ad, who's being featured?
Mm-hmm okay, it's like who isin it?
Okay, what is in it?
What product?
(19:34):
Right, where is it?
What's the context like?
Is it in the house, is itoutside?
Is it?
What's the context Like?
Is it in the house, is itoutside?
Is it in a studio?
Is it?
You know, vice versa?
And then why?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, so, that's the easiest way to do it.
Like the, the message behindwhat they're selling yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Why?
What's the unique selling pointthat we're actually going for?
Is it because it's acomfortable sweatshirt?
Is it because it's a durablesweatshirt yeah.
Is it because it's a we'retrying to help people aspire to
some kind of fashion aestheticyeah.
Or is it because we're goingafter features, right, like, is
(20:15):
it a feature ad?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And oftentimes can I say something the why oftentimes
ties back to the who right Likeyour, why, your message, your
unique selling point.
For example, if you have apregnant woman in an ad and
you're selling a diaper bag tothem, you can talk about like
you know best mother recommendeddiaper bag right.
(20:38):
So the message can also tieinto the what which is a if
you're a supplement brand.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You might want to show someone who's in shape and
someone who's aspiring to getinto shape yeah, and both of
those could be a spy.
I quote aspiring ads yeah, butyou could say, hey, this is how
people want to see themselves.
Yep, which is somebody who'salready made it to the point
they want to go.
Or you might want to trysomeone who's on the journey
(21:05):
right of their in their fitness.
Yep, so very two differentpeople or who's would be in that
.
Yeah, but the why, the whymight be the same.
Yeah, so that you know what Imean.
So that's what he's saying isyep, it's going to tie back to
the who, always, but the who'scan change too.
Like you can have the same wisewith three different types of
(21:26):
people.
Totally.
And then where, like, maybe thewoman's at the gym, maybe the
man's at home, and you know youcan just change those up or
studio shot, yeah, um, so that'show you start.
And then statics and videos arevery different.
So when you're, when you'relooking at your statics, you're
looking at what is the, themessage?
(21:46):
Yeah, you're going to analyzethe message, because there's
always going to be some kind ofcatch line, or is it the imagery
?
So you want to startcategorizing that and that's
always going to go back to the.
Usually the why is going to bemostly associated with.
Okay, we're going after thisfeature.
What's a clever way to showcasethis feature?
(22:07):
How do you do that?
yeah right here's.
We're going to analyze big textfor small text or feature point
outs versus gif yeah so youstart categorizing these and
then in videos.
The same way we like to analyzevideos, though, is as basically
hook, body and outro.
Yeah, because your hooks canalways be, and when this goes
with velocity, you can have onevideo be five videos yeah by
(22:31):
interchanging the parts of thevideo yeah you.
Okay, I want to try this hookthat has nothing to do like
maybe it's a.
Try this hook that has nothingto do like, maybe it's a.
You know, we sometimes we playaround with ideas of, uh,
something silly, like someonedoing a backflip, some sort of
meme-ish meme-ish like backflip.
Then it like cuts into to aproduct randomly, right, yeah.
(22:54):
So there's like kind of arandom, just crazy type hook.
There's product type hook.
There's you know, a questiontype hook.
There's a statement yeah, typehook.
So you can start categorizingyour hooks and as you do that
you're going to start realizing,like, what actually gets people
(23:14):
to consume the body of the adinstead of just glazing over
totally.
So that's how you startdifferentiating and categorizing
and testing your hypotheses,yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
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So I think that one thing thatyou said that is interesting to
me that, I think, is a note.
We get a lot of clients andpeople who are only outputting
video, and a lot of people havemoved away from static and we've
(24:36):
recognized that.
Don't get me wrong.
Video is super strong and superimportant, but statics have
such a big place in this world,and they oftentimes elicit
cheaper costs from what we'vefound Statics are so underrated
for so many reasons, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Talk about it.
Well, we've talked about thisin past podcasts, but let's talk
about it again Video, theproduction cost of videos and,
like I know, you can do some AIstuff, but ultimately videos are
just harder to make.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right More time-consuming.
More time-consuming, Moreexpensive oftentimes.
But, you can spin up dozens ofcreative concepts with statics.
For sure that can feed into howyou want to approach your videos
, yeah, so what we were justtalking about, what kind of
statements, what kind of whatkind of uh taglines are catching
(25:34):
people's eyes, like, how do youmake someone stop with a static
image, in a way that's uniqueand interesting, and then you
can say, okay, this uniqueselling point, yeah, or this
angle is working.
We should try that for a hookfor our ads go import.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You could literally go download every single review
you've ever had and upload it inchat gpt and ask it to find the
like top five best sentimentways.
Someone's talked about yourproduct and there you have five
different taglines to put over50 different styles, yeah of
imagery, whether it be a blankcanvas or, you know, a lifestyle
(26:15):
photo or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So but statics are great for that reason.
But then also the diversity.
So, for example, we have wehave an account that we just
started running a couple weeksago.
All video, every ad in theaccount is a video.
Yes, every single ad.
(26:38):
Um, we uploaded 10 statics andout of those 10 statics, two of
those statics are now the bestperforming ads in the entire
account.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So does that mean we're going to go all in on
static and that's it?
No, of course not.
Because you need the videos,because there's again we're
talking reach the diversity.
There's a different kind ofplacement, that static's going
to work versus video, and viceversa.
And videos are going to catch.
Maybe the same person inwhatever they're doing A video
might catch them differentlythan a static, or a static
(27:12):
versus a video, so you need thediversity.
But these two statics have byfar the best cost-purs and by
far the best click-through ratesand engagement and the best
CPMs.
So the question is, why weren'tthey running any statics before
?
It's because people preachvideo, video, video, video video
(27:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
and don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people
who run only statics and haveno video too.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
But it's hard to do both statics and videos Again,
like it's just hard to do it all.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, but there's like the beauty of let's tackle
the.
Okay, the static is the easiestpart to me, right, like
everybody has imagery.
Not only that, but like youalso could take.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Well, now it's easier than ever to take a, and it's
been easy for a while.
You can just take a productright, Photoshop it out of
whatever it is in.
Yeah and place it in acompletely different setting.
Well, yeah, so you can changethe context of the static so
much easier than the context ofthe video yeah, whether you have
design experience or you'reusing chat even canva, you can
(28:17):
just do background yes, it's so.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's so beyond simple , um, but but something that is
super overlooked and and I don'tknow if I'm skipping ahead to
maybe some other points youwanted to make, so feel free to
cut me off, but like, okay, I'llcut you off one of the one of
the things that we see thatthat's super, super easy and
also has had some sort ofstigmatism against it, has been
(28:42):
on the video side of things.
It is hard for brands to getvideo because a lot of brands
are, so they get so worked up,feeling like everything needs to
be a little bit higherproduction, so everything needs
to be in a studio, everythingneeds to have a model,
everything needs to have a youknow um, a pinterest board
storyline of how we're going toshoot this, like that's or the
(29:03):
opposite they just go all in andall they have is ugc yeah, yeah
, but what I was going to say isthe ugc side of things.
It's like that is still such aneasy option to be seeding
product and to be getting usergenerated content to fill that
engine.
Like I said, you just neverwant to.
Even though you might have somuch content, you just never
want it to deplete, and sothat's something that can just
(29:26):
always be happening, and it's soinexpensive to be giving away
free product.
Now there's some some brandslike we work with, some brands
where they're selling units thatcost 150 to make and they sell
them for 450.
Like that.
That's a little bit moreexpensive, you know, but a lot
of times brands like that theywon't charge you, or creators
(29:50):
like that oftentimes won'tcharge you because they just
want the product so bad as longas it fits within their niche
and it ends up being oh, you'regetting, actually they're
getting a $450 value versusoftentimes they'll pay like
it'll charge you like $100 to$200 for a.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
YouTube video.
Well, just like, yeah, and Iwas going to say look at the
cost per video.
Yeah, exactly, and so that'sthe metric you want to start
looking at.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So you could end up getting videos for the price of
$150, which ends up being really, really cheap, which is how we
like to look at seeding?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yes, because there's partnership opportunities that
arise and some branded contentads and spark ads and all that
and that's wonderful, but justbaseline when you're seeding and
working with people and justgetting your product out there.
Get creative, yeah, it's.
What would I be paying forvideos anyways?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
From for UGC videos Totally.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, or even in house, if I was creating these
myself.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Like what's the time, what's the cost, and you'll
find if you, if you do it right,it should come out to cheaper.
A hundred percent, it'sactually cost effective for
content.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And you're talking like you.
And can I just add one morething with ugc and seating is.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It is also a great way to change again the context.
Like I know, it's all ugc yepright, but there's different
types of people and if you'reseating and doing it right and
prospecting the right way, it'sa great way of changing the
who's totally and the where's,how they talk about it and the
whys of those videos.
(31:19):
So now you have four videoswith two very different types of
people and two, three differenttypes or two different types of
places.
One's always in their kitchen,one's always on their patio
outside or one's whatever at alake.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
So it's the easiest way to also start switching up
the who's and your ads and thewhy's and the where's and just
giving yourself a biggerdiversity of exactly what you're
saying.
Yeah, and it's super simple,like it's really easy.
I shouldn't say it's reallyeasy to do this, but once you
kind of get in the rhythm offinding the right people, it
starts to become very easy.
(31:57):
And then what ends up happeningis you start to find people
that you can trust and rely on,you, like their content, and now
all of a sudden you can startto put these people on retainers
to say like, okay, cool, hey, Iget two videos from you a month
for $200.
And if you get, you know, Idon't know, you get, let's get,
let's do some quick math hereright?
You get, you know 15 people,right, you're talking $3,000 for
(32:24):
three, 30 to 40 videos a month.
Yeah, which is not a lot ofmoney, especially when you're
talking about oh, I'm spending$50,000 a month On ads.
Now you're going from fiftythousand dollars to fifty three
thousand dollars, but yourpotential decrease in costs is
(32:44):
make up the difference for it.
So if yes 30.
If fifty thousand dollars in adspend was getting you a reach of
, you know, five, 500,000 peoplea month, or whatever the number
is Right, maybe that reach goesfrom 500,000 to 625,000, for
$3,000 more.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Which we have seen, we've, we've, we have seen this
happen, um like.
A great example of this is withone company.
They have their target demo isprobably women, most likely 35
and older, but really probably45 and older.
Right, and so we have.
We did product seeding.
The quickest batch of UGC thatcame back from product seeding
(33:32):
was the, a younger demographic,like 25 to 35.
But then we got a batch of oh,here's another woman, 55.
She's very like 55 and older.
And then we have another onewho's more in that 45 range and
all of a sudden you're seeingthat 55 and older one take off
(33:53):
and the conversion rate istaking off too.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, and so now you're reaching out to only
people in that space and CPMshave dropped.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
as we've uploaded different types of ads, cpms
have dropped from thisvertical's a lot different than
most people's verticals, but itdid drop dramatically from what
it was, by 50%.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, the big thing is just, it's not just the
diversification of content, butit's the fact that you just need
to be constantly filling up thebucket.
We use we we've used this, thisanalogy several times for
brands, which is like, if youconsider a brand, a bucket, and
the water is the revenue, andthe customer it's the customers,
(34:35):
right, and every day there's ahole that's drilled into the
revenue and the customer it'sthe customers right, and every
day there's a hole that'sdrilled into the bucket and
customers people are alwaysleaving your brand, whether
they're growing out of it orthey find another brand that
they like more, or or they justforget about you.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
They forget about you because there's a deluge of
other brands right, honestly.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Probably represents 80% of.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
We've talked about this before, but yes, like
that's most of what happens.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So you're always having it's not a bad product
experience.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
It's just simply that you're not top of mind.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, so you're always having your buckets are
always leaking, and then youracquisition is the spout that's
pouring the water in, and thegoal is that you're pouring more
in than you're losing.
And you have to look at yourcontent as the same way.
As you've got this repository,which is the bucket, and the
content is that water, andwhat's happening is the holes in
(35:24):
the bucket are, is your ad teamtaking the content away from
that bucket and using it, andwhat we know is 80% of the
content will never work right.
We know it's the Paretoprinciple right, where it's 20%
of the budget is going to get20%.
20% of your ads is going to endup getting 80% of the budget
(35:45):
because the other ones don'twork.
So you have this bucket and youknow immediately that 80% of it
, even though you still need it,because you need the creative
engine and meta to test it andbe the ones to determine it's
not good, right, or there areother things that perform better
.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Just know that immediately.
80% of that is going to be nogood, right, right, it's taking
20% of that.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And some people might say well, why don't you just
focus on the 20% that works?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And the answer is the answer is things change all the
time.
Number one and number two, yougot.
You got to have at-bats tofigure out what the 20% is.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Right, yeah, but also you have to have the 80% to
arrive to the 20% Totally.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And so, even though, even if you so, for example, I
want to like, I want to paintthis picture yeah, if you have
100 ads and 20 are the bestperformers and you iterate and
you're trying to make betterones, you're still going to have
another iteration of 100 adsand 20 will end up being the
best performers yes even thoughyou got better yes, absolutely
(36:54):
so.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yes, that's the at bats principle, so you have to
have the at best performers.
Yes, even though you got better.
Yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, that's the at-bats principle.
So you have to have the at-batsand it's hard to create a
legitimate process around.
Only again, you need theat-bats and it's hard to have a
legitimate process around, justlike oh, I'm just going to hone
in on like making four perfectads.
Okay, like, oh, I'm just goingto hone in on like making four
(37:19):
perfect ads.
Okay, good luck.
Yeah, like you can try tocapture, capture lightning in a
bottle and it can work sometimes, but we've seen brands fall
into that trap and it fails farmore often than it succeeds
totally.
So if you actually have aprocess, again like what, what
is the point of advertising?
What is the point of creatingprocesses?
it's to create predictableoutcomes yeah lightning in a
(37:43):
bottle is not a predictableoutcome.
No right, it's just not, andthat's what a lot of people fall
into you can shoot for thoseright.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I think everything that's part of yeah, everything
you create is meant to do that.
London lazarson talks aboutthis all the time, right, like
he's always trying to makesomething go virable, virable
virable virable.
He's always trying to makesomething go viral, but he's got
the at bats and guess what,just because he doesn't have
(38:12):
something go super viral, he'llhave something that will do semi
good, that that will be the 20%that's winning for him.
And then, every now and then,he has this thing that goes
bonkers.
It's the same thing with mycontent, right?
I always say this like if mycontent, my personal brand
content, if I can get betweenfive and 10,000 views per video,
I'm in a good.
(38:33):
That's just like a realm for me, okay.
That just average works for me,and then if I can have three to
four videos a month, that getsthat 30 to 50,000, I'm in a
really good spot.
And then maybe once every 45days I'll get this 300 to a
(38:54):
million view, and so you can tryto create that way.
But you're really trying tofigure out what that middle
ground world is.
That's what I'm trying to workmy way up to.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I love the analogy of at-bats and there's a
lot of sports analogies here,but if you're thinking about
just at-bats, your best hittersaren't going out there and just
trying to swing for a home run.
Yeah right, what are they doing?
First, they have very clearlike let's take golf, right,
(39:29):
when you're golfing, the bestgolfers in the world they don't
go out there and they're notjust swinging out of their shoes
every time.
They are trying to create aconsistent, predictable outcome.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah.
And that comes from a corefoundation of hours upon hours
of technique, hours upon hoursof technique.
Same shot all over the course.
Right yeah, same shot, butdifferent spots all over the
course.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
So when you watch golfers, you know, as someone
who's not, I'm not a golfer.
I golf at times, but I'm not agolfer.
Yeah, what I do know, though,about golf is the professionals
know what their height you knowthe height of their flight of
the ball and the distance of theball for each club, right, or
(40:16):
what the range is, okay, my nineiron speed velocity, yeah my
nine iron is going to go,however high in the air
generally, or and then mydistance is usually what?
150 yards or whatever.
Yeah, so they know that.
So like that's how they'replaying the game.
They're not just trying to hitthe ball as hard as they can
every single time becausethey're trying to get a hole in
one.
Yeah, it's impossible like they.
They know that.
So like that's how they'replaying the game.
They're not just trying to hitthe ball as hard as they can
every single time becausethey're trying to get a hole in
(40:37):
one.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
It's impossible.
Like they, they know the oddsof a hole in one or literally
approaching zero.
Yeah, same thing with that's.
Like that's what capturinglightning in a bottle is is Sure
, but you have to have thatfoundation of technique and
(40:58):
understand what's actuallyworking in the technique to have
predictable outcomes.
And that's the same thing withbusiness You're trying to create
processes and techniques thathave predictable outcomes,
because if you have thepredictable outcomes, like you,
hey, I know, based off of thistechnique and this methodology,
I'm going to get 10 to 20,000views.
(41:19):
Yeah, but I also know I'm goingto get a hole in one every, or a
home run or whatever you wantto call it every hundred videos,
sure, and for whatever reasonyou know, it takes off Like I'm
landing closer to the hole eachtime and eventually one falls in
.
Yeah, but guess what?
(41:40):
Like you're not going to win alot of events if you're only
trying to get hit it as hard asyou can to get a hole in one
every single time.
Sure, yeah, 100%.
Because, good luck getting ahole in one on a par five
obviously.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So it's situational.
But, the same thing in business.
It's all situational.
You got to realize where youactually are as a company and
what your production actually is.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, so the TLDR going back to the whole purpose.
We've gone down this analogypath.
Mark asked the question well,why not optimize off the top 20?
It's like, yes, that's whatyou're always doing, but you're
always going to have a top 20from the new top 20, you know,
from the new hundred ads thatyou created, and so that
optimization process never stops.
So back to the main analogy,which was this bucket.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
And sometimes your product might suck and you're
hitting out of the rough, yeahyeah, so it totally so you just
need to understand where youactually are and you need to be
filling that bucket of creative.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
A really great way to do that is UGC.
We like it.
The reason why you know itshouldn't be everything.
The reason why we like it isbecause it's other people
talking about why your productis good and that, just naturally
, even though it's anoversaturated form of ad content
, is still a better form ofcontent than me, as the founder,
(42:56):
saying.
This is why my product's betterthan yours.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Right, it just is People trust it, although you,
as a founder, getting on andsaying that is a lot better than
.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Not, I guess.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Just showing a product.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Sure, yeah, and you don't have to say this is why my
product's the best.
It's more of like hey, this iswhy I built this product, but I
would love more founders to dothat.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, talk about why it's the best.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, this is why I built it and this is all the
years and money I've spent tomake this product better than
the next.
So the purpose, the point, isfill your content buckets,
create content diversity.
Content diversity meaning notjust meaning reels, stories,
(43:38):
feed, not just meaning videosand statics but, also meaning
your, who, what, why?
Speaker 1 (43:45):
For example, if you have, if your account has 50 UGC
videos and they're all 20 to 25year old blonde woman talking
about your product in verysimilar ways.
That's not diversity.
Yeah, and they're all in theirkitchen.
The algorithm is not going toreward that very strongly
totally so when we're talkingdiversity, yes, it's not just
(44:08):
videos versus statics, it's whatis actually the content like.
What's the actual video about?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And who's?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
in it and budget for this, right?
This is the number one reasonpeople aren't doing it is
because, oh, creative costsmoney and I don't see a direct
correlation.
And I already have all of thiscreative.
Why can't we just continue toreuse it?
And you can.
But we have just seen longenough that, like, just like,
content is very similar toproducts, right.
(44:37):
Like I can't tell you how manytimes we've worked with brands
where they'll be like oh, I haveso much of this in stock, why
can't you go sell more of this?
And it's like well, peopledon't want it, people don't care
about that, people don't wantit.
Like you can't sell somethingpeople don't want at maybe at
that efficiency ratios you needto in order to not lose money.
(44:58):
It's the same thing withcontent.
Oh, I've got all this content,just keep using it.
Well, sometimes that contentdoesn't work, right, so it
doesn't matter how much contentyou have if it's not good.
If it doesn't work, then it'snot content.
You should continue to becreating ads around, because
then you're just wasting money.
Right, it goes.
It's not content.
You should continue to becreating ads around, because
then you're just wasting money.
Right, it goes.
It's the same way as as as badproduct or product that this is
(45:22):
not as good at at acquiringcustomers.
So, budget it out.
Um, I think that you know goodbudgets for something like you
UGC could be anywhere from threeto six $7,000 a month, um,
depending on how many videosyou're trying to get.
Um, you know, I think anywherefrom the a hundred to $200 cost
(45:43):
per video is is not a bad cost,um, for what we've seen.
So, yeah, just think about howmany.
Okay, like what?
What am I?
What can I output, versus whatcan I get from other creators.
It's a pretty easy calculationand it's pretty easy for you to
sit down and say, okay, cool, Iknow I can get 30 videos a month
from content creators.
I'm going to pay $3,250 forthat.
(46:07):
I know I, as a founder, can putout maybe five videos a month
and my team has unlimited staticamounts.
Boom, you just planned out whata content strategy could look
like for a month for you thatyou could then give to your ad
team to start.
I mean, that's over 60 adsright there.
(46:32):
Yeah, and I can tell you rightnow, 90% of you are probably not
uploading anywhere close tothat many ads in a month.
If you did, you might start tosee your cost, and now is the
time you want to see your coststart to dip.
As we're getting into BlackFriday, it's harder to do.
(46:54):
But no better time to get loyalcustomers to come repeat by in
November yeah, exactly which weneed to do a Black Friday
episode here so maybe next week,maybe in the next couple weeks
we'll have an episode come outBlack Friday stay tuned we can
talk about maybe best practices,things that have worked really
(47:16):
good for the next for the lastcouple years, and then maybe
some predictions on where wefeel like black friday
opportunities might be and whatother brands might be looking to
do as well, because it's allabout standing out and doing
something a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Awesome, okay, all right guys velocity and
diversity, Jay, everybody.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yep, all right.
See you guys next week.
Adios, thank you so much forlistening to the Unstoppable
Marketer podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(47:59):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
It's hard to have a legitimate process around just
like.
Oh, I'm just gonna hone in on,like, making four perfect ads.
Okay, good luck.
Lightning in a bottle is not apredictable outcome, right, it's
just not.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is MarkGoldhart, and as always, he is
on his phone looking atsomething.
How are you?
Oh, I'm doing well.
Do you do it on purpose now,because I call it out?
No, I don't, because he's noton his phone always throughout
(00:31):
the podcast.
It's just it'll fall down inmaybe 12 seconds He'll put it
down.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, now I'm going to have to hold it on for longer
than that 13 seconds.
No, I don't do it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm not mad about it, but um become a part of your
brand now I learned somethingnew this week.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I learned that I never knew what a truffle
actually was do you know what atruffle is?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
isn't a truffle some sort of fungus?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
yeah, yeah, I didn't know what it was.
Yeah, because there's chocolatetruffles.
Yes, but it's made out of somesort of it's a fungus, fungus
Found at the base of trees.
Yeah, like a mushroom.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But is it, but not?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Not a mushroom, it's not a mushroom, not a mushroom,
and my parents brought back somehoney and truffles from Italy.
Okay, so it's like a jar ofhoney with truffles, like a
little truffle mixed in.
Yeah, I honestly didn't knowwhat I was expecting, but it had
the most bizarre smell ever.
(01:39):
Yeah, like a little stinky Likealmost peppery and oniony.
Yeah, and I didn't know what itwas like.
I honestly have never had atruffle.
So that's fun.
And was it good?
It was good.
It's just so unique beyond whatmy palate is used to.
Yeah, it was pretty.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh, you just exploring diversifying,
culturing yourself, I get yeah,I don't know where you get
truffles.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't know who.
Do people just get them andcook with them regularly?
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, they're kind of a delicacy, I mean, you have like
yeah, I think trufflesthemselves right, but then you
have like sauces that have likethat are like a truffle sauce.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
You know that you can buy Like we have like a truffle
balsamic vinaigrette.
That is really tasty, right?
You know like.
So I know that yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But like the sauces and stuff, but I never knew what
an actual truffle.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And my guess is some of those sauces are probably
like, manufactured Like.
Did you know?
Here's something Did Like didyou know here's something Did
you know that Sourdough?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Hey, yes, I did.
Have we talked about thisbefore?
I don't know, but I know that'swhere you're going Sourdough.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
90% of the sourdough bread that you buy and eat is
not sourdough.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
What is that it's?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
white bread with vinegar in it.
It's like that was like themost shocking thing in the world
.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It does not actually have the sourdough starter or
the fungus or whatever it'sprobably more than 95%.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And I don't know what the ruling is behind being able
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I know that because my wife has told me that a
hundred times over the last twoyears.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, well, I think I found it out by my wife a
couple of years ago.
I was like let's get somesourdough bread, cause I love
the taste of it, and so I likeget sourdough.
And I come, like I came backhome and she like immediately
grabs the ingredients.
I'm like listen, I know I gotthe good stuff.
It says it's organic.
It says it's organic bread,just not real sourdough.
(03:46):
And and I was like that seemslike the most Devious, dishonest
thing in the entire world.
Sourdough bread is notSourdough bread, it's vinegar
bread.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh dude.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Which makes it sound even more disgusting.
I do love vinegar, though, so Iactually do as well, but
there's Not like salt andvinegar chips man, is there
anything better?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You want to hear a funny, not Like salt and vinegar
chips.
Man, is there anything better?
You want to hear a funny storyabout vinegar, salt and vinegar?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
chips are great, I agree.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I can't remember what brand it is.
It's one of the avocado oiltype brands.
Yep, I know exactly what you'retalking about and it's pretty
spicy.
Yeah, it has a kick to it.
There's salt and vinegar.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's a good one .
Speaker 1 (04:21):
But man, it's so good Is it the Siesta one.
Yeah, the Siesta one.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Those are the ones we get Funny story about vinegar.
So one of my I shouldn't saythis is a funny story because
there's some sadness to it butone of my best friends growing
up became addicted to Oxycontinand him and I were chatting.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And this is coming back to us.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yes, yes, it's coming back to me.
I promise he's addicted and Imean he's down like a dark and
dreary road and this is this isin like 10th grade, you know,
and he, uh, like he used tospend like he has.
He said that in order to umcurb his habit, he had to come
up with $250 a day to curb hishabit.
(05:04):
So he's like stealing fromparents, grandparents,
girlfriends, grandparents I meanhe was super dark place.
Anyways, he comes to school,shows up to school one day
completely hairless, like likebig waxed bald head, no
eyelashes, no eyebrows, no hair,completely hairless.
Looks like a psychopath and I'mlike I'm going to call him
(05:29):
Steve His name is not Steve,just for the sake of anonymity,
not that anyone's probablylistening that I went to high
school with and I do not knowwhere this man is today.
Hopefully he's alive, but he,I'm like Steve what happened?
And he's like, oh, dude, and hewas kind of known to be like an
airhead.
He's like I was high and I hada drug test for parole and
(05:58):
they're random and I didn't knowthat it was happening.
And you find out like a couplehours before and they say
there's like very few thingsthat you can do to get rid of,
like get the drugs out of yoursystem.
And he said that somebody toldhim that if he drank like like a
liter of vinegar that it wouldflush his system out.
(06:22):
Oh, and so he did it and hadjust this bodily reaction and
all of his hair fell out.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Oh, don't do drugs, kids, don't do drugs.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Ladies and gentlemen, so sad but funny story.
I actually think his life isgood, that one I do know.
He is, I think, on a betterpath to life.
Good, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's what vinegar is Vinegar.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's got the power to clean just about anything.
Apple cider vinegar though isbut like a tablespoon of it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Or two.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, a couple tablespoons a day keeps the
doctor away.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That kicks.
But Any stomach issue you'vegot.
Go get some apple cider vinegar.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
My grandpa swears by it.
He's been doing it for the lastfour years.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
It helps with everything.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Everything.
It's the most nasty thing inthe world.
It tastes terrible.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But why is that?
Why are all the good things inlife gross?
When I say good things in life,the things that are good for
you?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
are the hardest things to do why is that a
universal law?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
metaphor of life why, wouldn't our evolution, though,
actually make us crave thestuff that we don't want because
it's good for us.
Like, why don't I crave kaleand spinach?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I do oh, maybe, maybe not kale and spinach
specifically, but I like, I, Icrave, like greens every single
morning.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I would say 90% of people don't crave greens.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I crave like that Redmond salt relight.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That's because it's flavored and it tastes good.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
No, even though we have the unflavored, I just like
my body craves it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The salt yeah, I don't know.
Anyways, speaking of why is allthe good stuff across a hard
line marketing?
Nice it is getting harder.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Always is.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But the good stuff is across lines of being
uncomfortable and lines of hardto do.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So one thing we we just wanted to give everybody a
few updates of what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
We have access to quite a few accounts.
We look at them, we've auditedaccounts, we run accounts, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
We have access to dozens and dozens and that
doesn't mean we're.
The fun thing is when you havean ad agency like us, even
though we're not working withpeople, like maybe if we audited
somebody's account or yeah, sowe still get to see accounts.
You still can aggregate and see, because very few people take
you out of it.
So take your old agencies outif you don't want them in there.
(09:22):
Not us, though.
Don't take us out, because wewant to look at data.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Sorry, proceed.
So, anyways, what we're seeingacross the board is there's a
few things that matter.
One is and you've probablyheard these terms it's just
creative velocity.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
so velocity is what we deem as how often you're
uploading creative and creativediversity which means meaning
how different is your creativefrom each other and that could
be two different things.
I'm thinking of that could beformat wise video versus versus
static.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, I think people think of it as a format, yeah,
but what it really is is context.
So a testimonial ad versus apiece of UGC versus Versus an
old woman versus a young womanversus a yeah.
Content type yeah Versus aunboxing yes.
(10:24):
Content type yeah Versus aunboxing yes.
In a house versus a productusage on a picnic table Versus
branded content from aninfluencer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So Point is made.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, everything is just different context of the
creative and we'll go into howwe frame that and how we like to
manage it now.
But yeah, I think and that'shard, it's hard to do because
everybody is busy and now it'sexpected that more ads are being
(10:57):
uploaded yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think one thing to note, and this is just like a
universal thing that we haverecognized, as we've worked with
brands that are small, um, andas we've worked with brands that
are, you know so, brandsspending 30, 40 000 a month in
ads, compared to brands spending500 000, you know dollars, a
month in ad spend, or more.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Each one of these brands struggle with the same
issue, which is constantlyrefueling their content engines
yes, because, and part of thereason, there's two reasons for
this happening, but the mainreason is just user behavior on
the platform.
So I know we like to blame thealgorithm and, yes, I I'm not a
(11:44):
big fan of some of the changesthat meta makes, yep, but the
reality is that users aredriving a lot of these changes.
So what is the user behaviorthat has changed?
Well, in the last five years,they have gone from feed base to
story base, to reels base yep,if we're talking instagram, okay
(12:09):
, and even, and then facebook ismore community driven and like
there's maybe a little more feedaspect there but you they have
the same, but people operate onfacebook differently than they
operate on like an instagram.
And then you have tiktok, whichis, you know, a mere version of
that story, slash real typecontent.
And so what's the differencebetween feed versus stories,
(12:32):
versus reels is, well, attentionspan.
That's what's like.
That's what's changing, right?
Like people, when they weregoing through the feed, it was
first chronological, so peoplewere engaging with what they
knew and who they knew.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Stories continued that trend, but it was more of a
hey, you got 30 seconds, Like astory was 30 seconds it was
just like snippets.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, and then reels, which, yes, they can be long,
but the point with the reels andTikTok TOK is the consumer
behavior on there is very uh,it's quick, it's, but it's also
just like it's just adistraction, like they're just
doom scrolling.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
In a way that they weren't with just the Instagram
feed back in the day.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Right, because now it's they the day.
Yeah right, because now it'sthey're getting hit with, just
like what's the mostentertaining thing.
They're just looking for pureentertainment, not necessarily
getting entertained by thepeople yeah, like how do I get
dopamine as quick as possible?
yeah, yeah, and for that's.
I mean, that's thepsychological side of it, for
sure.
But so that's changed the waythey're consuming, which means
they get sick of things quicker,like they're looking for new
(13:39):
things faster, and you have tochange up the type of ads and
placements or else you knowthey're just swiping right
through.
So standing out this is just acontinuation of what we talked
about.
Standing out is, if you justreally make it simple, it's
frequency too.
Like standing out isn't justhow great your one ad is, it's
also how frequently you'reshowing up in somebody's life so
(14:02):
that they're associating youwith oh, this is a real thing,
this is interesting.
Oh, it must be a good product,whatever you're trying to
achieve with that frequency.
So how do you get the frequency?
Like we've talked aboutfrequency today, we want to talk
about how you actually and theright kind of uh kpis in in meta
(14:24):
.
Yeah, there's arguments outthere around what kpis you
should be looking forward orlooking to and optimizing for.
Some people say it's purchaseperiod.
Some people say you shouldstill be looking at hook rates
and click through rates.
We think you should look at allof them.
Obviously, purchase is.
Purchase is the most important.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And ROAS, and you know not ROAS, roas is a lie.
Sure, but making sure yourbusiness result is being
achieved, right, sure, yeah,yeah.
But you have to be looking atthese engagement metrics.
But what we have noticed is, asyou load, more diversity and
you have more velocity.
One thing that we have seen isCPMs in these accounts generally
(15:01):
drop.
Yeah, right, the algorithm isrewarding the amount and the
differentiation, yep, so notonly are you getting better
reach, which is what you'retrying to do, you're also
getting better CPMs.
Yep and better CPMs elicitgenerally lower cost per clicks,
which is what which generallycan convert into better cost per
(15:25):
purchase.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah.
So I think there's a, I thinkthere's this big.
Let's start with this and thenwe can dive into how to get good
frequency in some of thesethings.
But I just want to make a pointwhich is one of the big
resistance that we see clientsand brands, like I said, small
versus large is they're feelinglike I have enough content
already.
I don't need to continue to getmore, right?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So either, which is often true at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yes, but the problem with that is, depending on a
buyer's life cycle and how muchmoney you spend, you can go
through content relatively quickand the creative life cycle,
exactly, yep so.
And then I know you can kind ofpiece.
You know you can take twodifferent ads and you can put
them together to have three.
(16:13):
Right, like that kind of stuffcan happen.
But I think what will happen alot of times is brands will get
a good amount of content intheir content repository and
they'll kind of just whetherthey put a complete pause on it
or they, rather than being at100, you know, going 100 miles
an hour, maybe they're onlygoing 20 miles an hour, so
(16:34):
they're just like kind of slowlygetting stuff in.
I think that that's the problemis because they can have early
velocity and eventually theystart to hit a period of time
where they're running out of theright amount of content, and so
part of the reason brands dothis is because there's a
budgetary constraint.
Right, it costs money to get toget creative, and a lot of
(16:58):
times brands have a hard timetying dollars and cents to the
creative that they're gettingright now, in this very second.
But what mark has just said andwhat he's laid out is like it
is a very common pattern for us,when we upload a high amount of
content diversity that we seecpms lower, and if you lower
(17:18):
your cps from $16 to $14, that'san insane.
It doesn't seem like a big drop.
But on the back end when I sayback end, I mean what your cost
per clicks end up being to, thenwhat your cost per purchases
end up being as long as you know, website performance stays
similar it's actually a crazybig dip in efficiency savings,
(17:40):
which pays for the cost of thecreative and maybe even more.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yes, it does, and you might be wondering well, how
does it lower CPMs?
It's because when you havediversity and velocity, the
algorithm rewards you with oh,we need to find the right people
that match this.
It's trying to match your ads.
You are creative with thepeople, so you have to hone in
(18:07):
on the message, the content andthe context.
So how do you get so?
velocity is just more so I don'tknow, I don't think we have to
go into that right now.
We'll explain how you can dothat with product seeding after
we explain diversity.
So how do you get product?
Or, I'm sorry, how do you getcreative diversity?
(18:30):
So A we like to think in anumbrella of context first.
So who, what, why and where?
Who, what, why, where, Likethat's your context.
Who's in the ad, what's in thead, where it is in the ad and
why?
Yep, and the why is alwaysgoing to go back to the
(18:52):
customer's why.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So we don't need to go into that.
I think everyone talks aboutthat.
Yep.
So very simple.
We all learn that, right?
What's the subject of anysentence?
You know so like who, what,where, why?
Yep, so find that out, that'syour context, and then you start
grouping it.
So who?
Sometimes there's nobody.
(19:14):
Yeah, sometimes it's just aproduct.
Yeah.
Or it's a 18 to 25 year oldwoman or man, or it's a pregnant
lady family, or it's a 18 to 25year old woman or man or it's a
pregnant lady.
What a family or it's a baby, orit's like who is who's in the
ad, who's being featured?
Mm-hmm okay, it's like who isin it?
Okay, what is in it?
What product?
(19:34):
Right, where is it?
What's the context like?
Is it in the house, is itoutside?
Is it?
What's the context Like?
Is it in the house, is itoutside?
Is it in a studio?
Is it?
You know, vice versa?
And then why?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, so, that's the easiest way to do it.
Like the, the message behindwhat they're selling yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Why?
What's the unique selling pointthat we're actually going for?
Is it because it's acomfortable sweatshirt?
Is it because it's a durablesweatshirt yeah.
Is it because it's a we'retrying to help people aspire to
some kind of fashion aestheticyeah.
Or is it because we're goingafter features, right, like, is
(20:15):
it a feature ad?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And oftentimes can I say something the why oftentimes
ties back to the who right Likeyour, why, your message, your
unique selling point.
For example, if you have apregnant woman in an ad and
you're selling a diaper bag tothem, you can talk about like
you know best mother recommendeddiaper bag right.
(20:38):
So the message can also tieinto the what which is a if
you're a supplement brand.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You might want to show someone who's in shape and
someone who's aspiring to getinto shape yeah, and both of
those could be a spy.
I quote aspiring ads yeah, butyou could say, hey, this is how
people want to see themselves.
Yep, which is somebody who'salready made it to the point
they want to go.
Or you might want to trysomeone who's on the journey
(21:05):
right of their in their fitness.
Yep, so very two differentpeople or who's would be in that
.
Yeah, but the why, the whymight be the same.
Yeah, so that you know what Imean.
So that's what he's saying isyep, it's going to tie back to
the who, always, but the who'scan change too.
Like you can have the same wisewith three different types of
(21:26):
people.
Totally.
And then where, like, maybe thewoman's at the gym, maybe the
man's at home, and you know youcan just change those up or
studio shot, yeah, um, so that'show you start.
And then statics and videos arevery different.
So when you're, when you'relooking at your statics, you're
looking at what is the, themessage?
(21:46):
Yeah, you're going to analyzethe message, because there's
always going to be some kind ofcatch line, or is it the imagery
?
So you want to startcategorizing that and that's
always going to go back to the.
Usually the why is going to bemostly associated with.
Okay, we're going after thisfeature.
What's a clever way to showcasethis feature?
(22:07):
How do you do that?
yeah right here's.
We're going to analyze big textfor small text or feature point
outs versus gif yeah so youstart categorizing these and
then in videos.
The same way we like to analyzevideos, though, is as basically
hook, body and outro.
Yeah, because your hooks canalways be, and when this goes
with velocity, you can have onevideo be five videos yeah by
(22:31):
interchanging the parts of thevideo yeah you.
Okay, I want to try this hookthat has nothing to do like
maybe it's a.
Try this hook that has nothingto do like, maybe it's a.
You know, we sometimes we playaround with ideas of, uh,
something silly, like someonedoing a backflip, some sort of
meme-ish meme-ish like backflip.
Then it like cuts into to aproduct randomly, right, yeah.
(22:54):
So there's like kind of arandom, just crazy type hook.
There's product type hook.
There's you know, a questiontype hook.
There's a statement yeah, typehook.
So you can start categorizingyour hooks and as you do that
you're going to start realizing,like, what actually gets people
(23:14):
to consume the body of the adinstead of just glazing over
totally.
So that's how you startdifferentiating and categorizing
and testing your hypotheses,yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
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Go check them out right now atbffcreativeco.
So I think that one thing thatyou said that is interesting to
me that, I think, is a note.
We get a lot of clients andpeople who are only outputting
video, and a lot of people havemoved away from static and we've
(24:36):
recognized that.
Don't get me wrong.
Video is super strong and superimportant, but statics have
such a big place in this world,and they oftentimes elicit
cheaper costs from what we'vefound Statics are so underrated
for so many reasons, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Talk about it.
Well, we've talked about thisin past podcasts, but let's talk
about it again Video, theproduction cost of videos and,
like I know, you can do some AIstuff, but ultimately videos are
just harder to make.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right More time-consuming.
More time-consuming, Moreexpensive oftentimes.
But, you can spin up dozens ofcreative concepts with statics.
For sure that can feed into howyou want to approach your videos
, yeah, so what we were justtalking about, what kind of
statements, what kind of whatkind of uh taglines are catching
(25:34):
people's eyes, like, how do youmake someone stop with a static
image, in a way that's uniqueand interesting, and then you
can say, okay, this uniqueselling point, yeah, or this
angle is working.
We should try that for a hookfor our ads go import.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You could literally go download every single review
you've ever had and upload it inchat gpt and ask it to find the
like top five best sentimentways.
Someone's talked about yourproduct and there you have five
different taglines to put over50 different styles, yeah of
imagery, whether it be a blankcanvas or, you know, a lifestyle
(26:15):
photo or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So but statics are great for that reason.
But then also the diversity.
So, for example, we have wehave an account that we just
started running a couple weeksago.
All video, every ad in theaccount is a video.
Yes, every single ad.
(26:38):
Um, we uploaded 10 statics andout of those 10 statics, two of
those statics are now the bestperforming ads in the entire
account.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So does that mean we're going to go all in on
static and that's it?
No, of course not.
Because you need the videos,because there's again we're
talking reach the diversity.
There's a different kind ofplacement, that static's going
to work versus video, and viceversa.
And videos are going to catch.
Maybe the same person inwhatever they're doing A video
might catch them differentlythan a static, or a static
(27:12):
versus a video, so you need thediversity.
But these two statics have byfar the best cost-purs and by
far the best click-through ratesand engagement and the best
CPMs.
So the question is, why weren'tthey running any statics before
?
It's because people preachvideo, video, video, video video
(27:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
and don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people
who run only statics and haveno video too.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
But it's hard to do both statics and videos Again,
like it's just hard to do it all.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, but there's like the beauty of let's tackle
the.
Okay, the static is the easiestpart to me, right, like
everybody has imagery.
Not only that, but like youalso could take.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Well, now it's easier than ever to take a, and it's
been easy for a while.
You can just take a productright, Photoshop it out of
whatever it is in.
Yeah and place it in acompletely different setting.
Well, yeah, so you can changethe context of the static so
much easier than the context ofthe video yeah, whether you have
design experience or you'reusing chat even canva, you can
(28:17):
just do background yes, it's so.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's so beyond simple , um, but but something that is
super overlooked and and I don'tknow if I'm skipping ahead to
maybe some other points youwanted to make, so feel free to
cut me off, but like, okay, I'llcut you off one of the one of
the things that we see thatthat's super, super easy and
also has had some sort ofstigmatism against it, has been
(28:42):
on the video side of things.
It is hard for brands to getvideo because a lot of brands
are, so they get so worked up,feeling like everything needs to
be a little bit higherproduction, so everything needs
to be in a studio, everythingneeds to have a model,
everything needs to have a youknow um, a pinterest board
storyline of how we're going toshoot this, like that's or the
(29:03):
opposite they just go all in andall they have is ugc yeah, yeah
, but what I was going to say isthe ugc side of things.
It's like that is still such aneasy option to be seeding
product and to be getting usergenerated content to fill that
engine.
Like I said, you just neverwant to.
Even though you might have somuch content, you just never
want it to deplete, and sothat's something that can just
(29:26):
always be happening, and it's soinexpensive to be giving away
free product.
Now there's some some brandslike we work with, some brands
where they're selling units thatcost 150 to make and they sell
them for 450.
Like that.
That's a little bit moreexpensive, you know, but a lot
of times brands like that theywon't charge you, or creators
(29:50):
like that oftentimes won'tcharge you because they just
want the product so bad as longas it fits within their niche
and it ends up being oh, you'regetting, actually they're
getting a $450 value versusoftentimes they'll pay like
it'll charge you like $100 to$200 for a.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
YouTube video.
Well, just like, yeah, and Iwas going to say look at the
cost per video.
Yeah, exactly, and so that'sthe metric you want to start
looking at.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So you could end up getting videos for the price of
$150, which ends up being really, really cheap, which is how we
like to look at seeding?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yes, because there's partnership opportunities that
arise and some branded contentads and spark ads and all that
and that's wonderful, but justbaseline when you're seeding and
working with people and justgetting your product out there.
Get creative, yeah, it's.
What would I be paying forvideos anyways?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
From for UGC videos Totally.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, or even in house, if I was creating these
myself.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Like what's the time, what's the cost, and you'll
find if you, if you do it right,it should come out to cheaper.
A hundred percent, it'sactually cost effective for
content.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And you're talking like you.
And can I just add one morething with ugc and seating is.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It is also a great way to change again the context.
Like I know, it's all ugc yepright, but there's different
types of people and if you'reseating and doing it right and
prospecting the right way, it'sa great way of changing the
who's totally and the where's,how they talk about it and the
whys of those videos.
(31:19):
So now you have four videoswith two very different types of
people and two, three differenttypes or two different types of
places.
One's always in their kitchen,one's always on their patio
outside or one's whatever at alake.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
So it's the easiest way to also start switching up
the who's and your ads and thewhy's and the where's and just
giving yourself a biggerdiversity of exactly what you're
saying.
Yeah, and it's super simple,like it's really easy.
I shouldn't say it's reallyeasy to do this, but once you
kind of get in the rhythm offinding the right people, it
starts to become very easy.
(31:57):
And then what ends up happeningis you start to find people
that you can trust and rely on,you, like their content, and now
all of a sudden you can startto put these people on retainers
to say like, okay, cool, hey, Iget two videos from you a month
for $200.
And if you get, you know, Idon't know, you get, let's get,
let's do some quick math hereright?
You get, you know 15 people,right, you're talking $3,000 for
(32:24):
three, 30 to 40 videos a month.
Yeah, which is not a lot ofmoney, especially when you're
talking about oh, I'm spending$50,000 a month On ads.
Now you're going from fiftythousand dollars to fifty three
thousand dollars, but yourpotential decrease in costs is
(32:44):
make up the difference for it.
So if yes 30.
If fifty thousand dollars in adspend was getting you a reach of
, you know, five, 500,000 peoplea month, or whatever the number
is Right, maybe that reach goesfrom 500,000 to 625,000, for
$3,000 more.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Which we have seen, we've, we've, we have seen this
happen, um like.
A great example of this is withone company.
They have their target demo isprobably women, most likely 35
and older, but really probably45 and older.
Right, and so we have.
We did product seeding.
The quickest batch of UGC thatcame back from product seeding
(33:32):
was the, a younger demographic,like 25 to 35.
But then we got a batch of oh,here's another woman, 55.
She's very like 55 and older.
And then we have another onewho's more in that 45 range and
all of a sudden you're seeingthat 55 and older one take off
(33:53):
and the conversion rate istaking off too.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, and so now you're reaching out to only
people in that space and CPMshave dropped.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
as we've uploaded different types of ads, cpms
have dropped from thisvertical's a lot different than
most people's verticals, but itdid drop dramatically from what
it was, by 50%.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, the big thing is just, it's not just the
diversification of content, butit's the fact that you just need
to be constantly filling up thebucket.
We use we we've used this, thisanalogy several times for
brands, which is like, if youconsider a brand, a bucket, and
the water is the revenue, andthe customer it's the customers,
(34:35):
right, and every day there's ahole that's drilled into the
revenue and the customer it'sthe customers right, and every
day there's a hole that'sdrilled into the bucket and
customers people are alwaysleaving your brand, whether
they're growing out of it orthey find another brand that
they like more, or or they justforget about you.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
They forget about you because there's a deluge of
other brands right, honestly.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Probably represents 80% of.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
We've talked about this before, but yes, like
that's most of what happens.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
So you're always having it's not a bad product
experience.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
It's just simply that you're not top of mind.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, so you're always having your buckets are
always leaking, and then youracquisition is the spout that's
pouring the water in, and thegoal is that you're pouring more
in than you're losing.
And you have to look at yourcontent as the same way.
As you've got this repository,which is the bucket, and the
content is that water, andwhat's happening is the holes in
(35:24):
the bucket are, is your ad teamtaking the content away from
that bucket and using it, andwhat we know is 80% of the
content will never work right.
We know it's the Paretoprinciple right, where it's 20%
of the budget is going to get20%.
20% of your ads is going to endup getting 80% of the budget
(35:45):
because the other ones don'twork.
So you have this bucket and youknow immediately that 80% of it
, even though you still need it,because you need the creative
engine and meta to test it andbe the ones to determine it's
not good, right, or there areother things that perform better
.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Just know that immediately.
80% of that is going to be nogood, right, right, it's taking
20% of that.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And some people might say well, why don't you just
focus on the 20% that works?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And the answer is the answer is things change all the
time.
Number one and number two, yougot.
You got to have at-bats tofigure out what the 20% is.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Right, yeah, but also you have to have the 80% to
arrive to the 20% Totally.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And so, even though, even if you so, for example, I
want to like, I want to paintthis picture yeah, if you have
100 ads and 20 are the bestperformers and you iterate and
you're trying to make betterones, you're still going to have
another iteration of 100 adsand 20 will end up being the
best performers yes even thoughyou got better yes, absolutely
(36:54):
so.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yes, that's the at bats principle, so you have to
have the at best performers.
Yes, even though you got better.
Yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, that's the at-bats principle.
So you have to have the at-batsand it's hard to create a
legitimate process around.
Only again, you need theat-bats and it's hard to have a
legitimate process around, justlike oh, I'm just going to hone
in on like making four perfectads.
Okay, like, oh, I'm just goingto hone in on like making four
(37:19):
perfect ads.
Okay, good luck.
Yeah, like you can try tocapture, capture lightning in a
bottle and it can work sometimes, but we've seen brands fall
into that trap and it fails farmore often than it succeeds
totally.
So if you actually have aprocess, again like what, what
is the point of advertising?
What is the point of creatingprocesses?
it's to create predictableoutcomes yeah lightning in a
(37:43):
bottle is not a predictableoutcome.
No right, it's just not, andthat's what a lot of people fall
into you can shoot for thoseright.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I think everything that's part of yeah, everything
you create is meant to do that.
London lazarson talks aboutthis all the time, right, like
he's always trying to makesomething go virable, virable
virable virable.
He's always trying to makesomething go viral, but he's got
the at bats and guess what,just because he doesn't have
(38:12):
something go super viral, he'llhave something that will do semi
good, that that will be the 20%that's winning for him.
And then, every now and then,he has this thing that goes
bonkers.
It's the same thing with mycontent, right?
I always say this like if mycontent, my personal brand
content, if I can get betweenfive and 10,000 views per video,
I'm in a good.
(38:33):
That's just like a realm for me, okay.
That just average works for me,and then if I can have three to
four videos a month, that getsthat 30 to 50,000, I'm in a
really good spot.
And then maybe once every 45days I'll get this 300 to a
(38:54):
million view, and so you can tryto create that way.
But you're really trying tofigure out what that middle
ground world is.
That's what I'm trying to workmy way up to.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I love the analogy of at-bats and there's a
lot of sports analogies here,but if you're thinking about
just at-bats, your best hittersaren't going out there and just
trying to swing for a home run.
Yeah right, what are they doing?
First, they have very clearlike let's take golf, right,
(39:29):
when you're golfing, the bestgolfers in the world they don't
go out there and they're notjust swinging out of their shoes
every time.
They are trying to create aconsistent, predictable outcome.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah.
And that comes from a corefoundation of hours upon hours
of technique, hours upon hoursof technique.
Same shot all over the course.
Right yeah, same shot, butdifferent spots all over the
course.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
So when you watch golfers, you know, as someone
who's not, I'm not a golfer.
I golf at times, but I'm not agolfer.
Yeah, what I do know, though,about golf is the professionals
know what their height you knowthe height of their flight of
the ball and the distance of theball for each club, right, or
(40:16):
what the range is, okay, my nineiron speed velocity, yeah my
nine iron is going to go,however high in the air
generally, or and then mydistance is usually what?
150 yards or whatever.
Yeah, so they know that.
So like that's how they'replaying the game.
They're not just trying to hitthe ball as hard as they can
every single time becausethey're trying to get a hole in
one.
Yeah, it's impossible like they.
They know that.
So like that's how they'replaying the game.
They're not just trying to hitthe ball as hard as they can
every single time becausethey're trying to get a hole in
(40:37):
one.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
It's impossible.
Like they, they know the oddsof a hole in one or literally
approaching zero.
Yeah, same thing with that's.
Like that's what capturinglightning in a bottle is is Sure
, but you have to have thatfoundation of technique and
(40:58):
understand what's actuallyworking in the technique to have
predictable outcomes.
And that's the same thing withbusiness You're trying to create
processes and techniques thathave predictable outcomes,
because if you have thepredictable outcomes, like you,
hey, I know, based off of thistechnique and this methodology,
I'm going to get 10 to 20,000views.
(41:19):
Yeah, but I also know I'm goingto get a hole in one every, or a
home run or whatever you wantto call it every hundred videos,
sure, and for whatever reasonyou know, it takes off Like I'm
landing closer to the hole eachtime and eventually one falls in
.
Yeah, but guess what?
(41:40):
Like you're not going to win alot of events if you're only
trying to get hit it as hard asyou can to get a hole in one
every single time.
Sure, yeah, 100%.
Because, good luck getting ahole in one on a par five
obviously.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So it's situational.
But, the same thing in business.
It's all situational.
You got to realize where youactually are as a company and
what your production actually is.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, so the TLDR going back to the whole purpose.
We've gone down this analogypath.
Mark asked the question well,why not optimize off the top 20?
It's like, yes, that's whatyou're always doing, but you're
always going to have a top 20from the new top 20, you know,
from the new hundred ads thatyou created, and so that
optimization process never stops.
So back to the main analogy,which was this bucket.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
And sometimes your product might suck and you're
hitting out of the rough, yeahyeah, so it totally so you just
need to understand where youactually are and you need to be
filling that bucket of creative.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
A really great way to do that is UGC.
We like it.
The reason why you know itshouldn't be everything.
The reason why we like it isbecause it's other people
talking about why your productis good and that, just naturally
, even though it's anoversaturated form of ad content
, is still a better form ofcontent than me, as the founder,
(42:56):
saying.
This is why my product's betterthan yours.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Right, it just is People trust it, although you,
as a founder, getting on andsaying that is a lot better than
.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Not, I guess.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Just showing a product.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Sure, yeah, and you don't have to say this is why my
product's the best.
It's more of like hey, this iswhy I built this product, but I
would love more founders to dothat.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, talk about why it's the best.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, this is why I built it and this is all the
years and money I've spent tomake this product better than
the next.
So the purpose, the point, isfill your content buckets,
create content diversity.
Content diversity meaning notjust meaning reels, stories,
(43:38):
feed, not just meaning videosand statics but, also meaning
your, who, what, why?
Speaker 1 (43:45):
For example, if you have, if your account has 50 UGC
videos and they're all 20 to 25year old blonde woman talking
about your product in verysimilar ways.
That's not diversity.
Yeah, and they're all in theirkitchen.
The algorithm is not going toreward that very strongly
totally so when we're talkingdiversity, yes, it's not just
(44:08):
videos versus statics, it's whatis actually the content like.
What's the actual video about?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And who's?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
in it and budget for this, right?
This is the number one reasonpeople aren't doing it is
because, oh, creative costsmoney and I don't see a direct
correlation.
And I already have all of thiscreative.
Why can't we just continue toreuse it?
And you can.
But we have just seen longenough that, like, just like,
content is very similar toproducts, right.
(44:37):
Like I can't tell you how manytimes we've worked with brands
where they'll be like oh, I haveso much of this in stock, why
can't you go sell more of this?
And it's like well, peopledon't want it, people don't care
about that, people don't wantit.
Like you can't sell somethingpeople don't want at maybe at
that efficiency ratios you needto in order to not lose money.
(44:58):
It's the same thing withcontent.
Oh, I've got all this content,just keep using it.
Well, sometimes that contentdoesn't work, right, so it
doesn't matter how much contentyou have if it's not good.
If it doesn't work, then it'snot content.
You should continue to becreating ads around, because
then you're just wasting money.
Right, it goes.
It's not content.
You should continue to becreating ads around, because
then you're just wasting money.
Right, it goes.
It's the same way as as as badproduct or product that this is
(45:22):
not as good at at acquiringcustomers.
So, budget it out.
Um, I think that you know goodbudgets for something like you
UGC could be anywhere from threeto six $7,000 a month, um,
depending on how many videosyou're trying to get.
Um, you know, I think anywherefrom the a hundred to $200 cost
(45:43):
per video is is not a bad cost,um, for what we've seen.
So, yeah, just think about howmany.
Okay, like what?
What am I?
What can I output, versus whatcan I get from other creators.
It's a pretty easy calculationand it's pretty easy for you to
sit down and say, okay, cool, Iknow I can get 30 videos a month
from content creators.
I'm going to pay $3,250 forthat.
(46:07):
I know I, as a founder, can putout maybe five videos a month
and my team has unlimited staticamounts.
Boom, you just planned out whata content strategy could look
like for a month for you thatyou could then give to your ad
team to start.
I mean, that's over 60 adsright there.
(46:32):
Yeah, and I can tell you rightnow, 90% of you are probably not
uploading anywhere close tothat many ads in a month.
If you did, you might start tosee your cost, and now is the
time you want to see your coststart to dip.
As we're getting into BlackFriday, it's harder to do.
(46:54):
But no better time to get loyalcustomers to come repeat by in
November yeah, exactly which weneed to do a Black Friday
episode here so maybe next week,maybe in the next couple weeks
we'll have an episode come outBlack Friday stay tuned we can
talk about maybe best practices,things that have worked really
(47:16):
good for the next for the lastcouple years, and then maybe
some predictions on where wefeel like black friday
opportunities might be and whatother brands might be looking to
do as well, because it's allabout standing out and doing
something a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Awesome, okay, all right guys velocity and
diversity, Jay, everybody.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yep, all right.
See you guys next week.
Adios, thank you so much forlistening to the Unstoppable
Marketer podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(47:59):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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