Gaining 9.5 Million Followers & Scaling Brands w/ London Lazerson (@londonlaz)

In this episode, we interview London Lazerson, a renowned content creator with 9.5 million followers on TikTok and a multiple thriving businesses. 

Join us as we dive into his secrets for content creation and scaling businesses. @londonlaz jumps into his creative process, engagement strategies, and valuable advice for aspiring creators. Gain insights into building a personal brand, leveraging social media, and achieving entrepreneurial success. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the industry's legends. 

Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump

Episode Transcript

Trevor (00:00):
Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the

(00:01):
unstoppable Marketer Podcastwith me as always the co host
who cut his hair. Markgoldheart. How are you? Mark
goldheart? who just had a baby?
I just had gratulations babygirl tell us about it

Mark (00:15):
baby girl Baby Anna. Baby Anna is here. She's healthy.
She's a dream of a baby. I mean,how long ago? Thursday, so she's
fine early by versus first kid.
Yeah, no. Third, third, third,first girl, get a TV or
something, bro. So we havecalmed down to little boys. And
they're alligators. They're justlittle monsters ever since birth

(00:39):
to I mean, they're great. I lovethem. But they are a lot. Go and
Anna came into her life andshe's just been so mellow. which
either means she's going to be ahandful later or maybe she'll be
mellow her whole life. I don'tknow. But for now we'll take it.
It's been great.

Trevor (00:56):
Ah, she's the youngest.
If you have you guys might havemore

London (01:00):
new species. Yeah, or whatever. It's called in 2023.
Yeah, species.

Trevor (01:04):
Yeah, exactly. Term is species. Species

London (01:08):
species. Yeah.

Trevor (01:11):
Do you like girls?
Awesome. A girl is amazing.

Mark (01:14):
She's great. It's funny, I think the first moment because
everyone says it's different.
Like if your girl dad or boydad, right? Yeah. I think my
first moment of realizing thedifference was with both of my
boys. It was like they wereborn. They put them on the
weight scale. Right. And like, Ijust like snapped a picture and
sent it straight to my family.
Yeah, you know, just there's thebaby. Yeah. And then with Anna,

(01:37):
I was like, Ah, maybe I shouldcrop that.

Trevor (01:43):
Maybe I should put a filter on

Mark (01:44):
that. Yeah. We'll wait till she's done up and ready.

London (01:51):
In the case that she looks back on the photo and says
Dad, why'd you wedding footwedding? Yeah.

Mark (01:57):
Yeah, I don't want her little naked. Baby photo photo
out.

London (02:00):
Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. Let's just
penises are okay. Yeah, theother stuff.

Mark (02:05):
Like two boys like whatever. You gotta keep it
somehow, like, my little girlwrapper up
like, oh, with my boys. I don'teven think about it. Just like,
here's the here they are. Here'smy boy. It's

London (02:20):
funny. Actually.

Trevor (02:21):
Wait, when was your when was August born? What year?
2020? Yeah,

Mark (02:25):
he was a COVID baby.

Trevor (02:26):
I mean, also, you know, we're like three years, like,
you know, the the world ischanged to you know, makes you
rethink the stuff you put onlineas well. That's true. Yeah.

Mark (02:35):
And online. And because I don't post those online. It's
just like a family. Right, likefamily group text and like,
Yeah, but still, it's justfunny. Like, it was funny that
like, it was just a naturalthing that happened. Yeah. I
wasn't thinking about it. Justlike dad protective dad

Trevor (02:51):
mode. Yeah, let's, let's dress her up. And we'll she's
gonna have some good protectivebreadmaker. Nice. That's
exciting, dude. Well,congratulations. And we're
happy. You're here.

Mark (02:58):
Well, I'm happy I'm here.
Yeah. Yeah. And we have awonderful guest.

London (03:02):
Yeah, sorta. Yeah, he's a find out.

Trevor (03:05):
He has been hearing this mysterious voice. I wonder if
anyone else you will see thetitle the podcast and know
exactly who it is. But you know,okay. So I will formally
introduce our guests. London,London, London, London, London
Lazar person who is a massive,massive content creator here.
Based out of Salt Lake City,wannabe. Wannabe want to be

(03:27):
content creator escapes me has9.5 million followers on Tiktok
and 140 plus million likes thathe bought it all? Not at all.
He's getting their numbers up.
Yeah. What's up, dude?

London (03:42):
Guys, I was I was pumped. You know, I love I love
the crossroads of contentcreation and marketing. Because
everything I've built is withstandard marketing practices.
And it's something I don't seemany creators do. Yeah. You
know, you see? And I mean,there's there is also the demise
of that, right? Because of mymarketing mind. Sometimes it's

(04:05):
totally authentic. Sometimesit's hard to build an audience,
you know? But yeah, guys, I wasI was pumped when you when you
hit me up.

Trevor (04:11):
Yeah, I was telling mark. Well, I actually posted I
posted something on LinkedIn,actually the other day saying,
hey, like, I'm like, 40 for 41on people I asked to be on the
podcast. I always think thatpeople are gonna turn you down.
Yeah, and I don't know why. Imean, I met you one time. I
don't know if you remember this,but you and me met. We are the
founders of in

London (04:32):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's very brave. Yeah. Match. Yep.
Yep. And

Trevor (04:36):
we try to introduce to you anyways, and I was like,
Dude, we gotta get this guy onthe podcast. He'd be great.
We've had a few like a handfulof content creators on before
and those episodes are soawesome. Yeah, let's get him on
and I was telling him you know,so I had like my I had like my
speech ready for you, dude. SoI'm like, like, usually what
I'll do is I'll be like, I got Igot ammo, right? I'll like my

(04:58):
ammo is like, Yo, dude. lovewhat you're doing. We'd love to
have you on this podcast andI'll send that out. And then my
next my next thing is like, if Idon't hear back from me in a
minute, I'm going to be like,Hey, we're like, we're not just
some dumpee podcasts like, we'retop 10 books, and I'll toss that
out there. So you're like, Okay,you know, and then my next thing

(05:18):
is like, I'll find like our bestperforming clips on social Yeah,
then I'll send smart marketing.
And then the next thing is like,I'm gonna send you our best
episodes. And that's usually itand I'm like, message you. I'm
like, Yo, dude, love to have youon the podcast. I'm like,
getting ready to send the otherthings in like you just like,
Yeah, let's do it. Like, what astud, dude.

London (05:37):
I think the thing that got me ahead in life in so many
ways, not to be, you know,boastful, but please do though.
My dad told me when I was reallyyoung, he said, If you never
asked, the answer is always no.
Because it would always botherme when the waiter would come to
the table, and he would ask forextra things. Or, you know, we'd
be pulling up to a basketballgame, and he'd asked for VIP

(05:59):
parking when we had nosebleedstickets, you know what I'm
saying? And more often than not,the girl has a tail, it'd be
like, yeah, you can park here.
And that kind of wrap my headaround. What you were saying is
like we get in our heads, sooften to ask people, people
things, and in the worst case, Isay, Yeah, or you don't respond.

(06:23):
We never talk and you never knewwhat you lost. I never knew what
I lost. And we move on. Totally.
So I am a huge advocate of don'tbeg, ever, but don't ever be
afraid to shoot your shot.
Because the worst thing I cansay is no. Love it. And I've
people tell me no all the time.
So

Trevor (06:42):
yeah, well, we appreciate you coming on. So
what I want to do is I want toopen up the floor a little bit
just cast like a littlebackground on you. Who's London?
How did you get started? Andthen we're going to kind of jump
into it. And I have a feelingthat this is going to be a
really so?

London (06:57):
Um, I have a you know, out of out of foundation? I am.
I tried to do I try to take theunconventional route in pretty
much everything I do. And thisstarted, when I almost became
the real life, Billy Madison2015, I was going back to
college. And the admissions ladywas like, hey, everything looks

(07:20):
good. You're ready to go. Youjust need to take a math test.
And I was like, Yeah, for sure.
So I go take this math test, andthey get the results back
instantly. And she's like, youknow, we've got some good news.
And I'm like, no way that I justpass that math test, because I'm
like, half stupid, like, I am sobad at math, just so bad at
math. And in my head, you know,trying to be confident I pass

(07:44):
this test and she goes, we don'toffer your math level here. You
are going to have to go take itat one of these high schools.
But she said there's good news.
Well, the good news is that theyhad this program where I could
go back to the high school,

Trevor (08:02):
the good news, you don't have to pay because you're going
to high school.

Mark (08:05):
The good news is you are going back to high school.

London (08:09):
Yeah, the bad news is you're still gonna get bullied
now. So in that in that moment,it was just so crystal clear.
And I don't think many peoplehave this opportunity where it's
so crystal clear that they don'tbelong to somebody or to
something Sure. You know what Imean? There's, there's like so
many entrepreneurs and marketerswho are stuck at their dead end
job. And nothing crystal clearwill ever happen to them where

(08:32):
they have to quit, right? Wherethey say, okay, the decision is
made for me, I'm going to quitand build something right? Even
though everybody in our jobs arealways thinking of side hustles.
Right. So the one of the hardestthing I had ever done at that
maturity level was look thatadmissions lady in the eye and
withdraw all of my application,all of my deposits right then in

(08:53):
there. And I knew that I hadalways known that I wanted to
take an unconventional route andnot do college and try to build
something for myself. I justdidn't know what it was going to
look like. And that was theperfect moment where it was
decided for me not going back tohigh school. Sure what I'm just
not, I don't care how stupid Iam. I'm setting foot in a high

(09:16):
school. Right. And, you know,they fought really hard to keep
me right. I mean, and this iswhy we can talk about, you know,
the revenue from attendance andthings like that. Conspiracies
is college for the businessowner for the student, right.

Mark (09:33):
Industrial Educational Complex. Yeah, we could get into
the fun which fires

London (09:38):
me up I mean, but I'm, I'm okay to see both sides. You
can get a great education andyou can meet, you can meet your
future business partner, yourfuture wife, there's so many
valuable things that cause thatconstitutes can

Trevor (09:51):
come from education.
Sure, yeah.

London (09:54):
But when you're in the moment trying to withdraw trying
to make your own decision andthey already have some form of
money from Yeah, it is difficultanyway. Got away from that never
looked back.

Mark (10:04):
Now which university was this? UVU okay.

London (10:07):
I mean, at that time that's like the bottom of the
totem pole. I think

Trevor (10:11):
you've used come up more,

London (10:12):
I think I think it's Yeah, I think it's cool. Now
bottom of the totem

Trevor (10:15):
pole would be like more like slick. You know, they
wouldn't even take me

Mark (10:19):
to college. So there's nothing wrong though.

Trevor (10:22):
I did slick, good slick.
For my associates,

Mark (10:27):
dude, save some money.
Hell yeah. Go to college.

Trevor (10:31):
I also got a FASFA from it too. So I actually made any
money. I was so

Mark (10:36):
poor, I had to go to sleep. I never took a language
in high school. Oh, so I had togo and take sign language. From
Wow, I'm there. Yeah,

London (10:45):
I mean, this is another point of that's a perfect point
about college. Yeah. Like, you,Oh, you didn't take a language?
Well, here's a easy route thatyou can do just to get that
credit and pay us but you're notgonna learn anything? Oh, yeah,
I don't I don't remember anysign language? No, that's what
I'm saying. It's like, a signlanguage is extremely valuable

(11:06):
to our society. But did you evershow interest in that? You know,

Mark (11:11):
Oh, dude, I was just I was the guy who just like got by, by
the skin of my teeth every timeyou know, see, see plus, that
was my grade every time HighSchool, beginning of college.
Yeah, that's how I did one of

London (11:24):
my hot takes kind of went semi viral on LinkedIn
about college that was doncoonly. Okay, here's my hot take
about college, only go tocollege if somebody else is
paying for it. And that issomething that I feel confident
in getting behind. Because thereare a ton of ways for kids to
get their college paid for. Andthere are a ton of opportunities

(11:45):
by not going to college. So youcan kind of get the best of both
worlds. You want to go tocollege, work your ass off to
get the scholarships and havesomebody else pay for it. Sure.
Other than that, it's not tooworth it to me. So this idea of
being unconventional, juststarted, you know, with quitting
quitting college. And I hadalways wanted to start a

(12:08):
business and was going to thebusiness, not the business
school, but the entrepreneurshipprogram or whatever. And so I
was like, that's just that'swhere I'm going to start. And
started my first business coupleweeks after that is called
STICKY SOUNDS who's a Bluetoothspeaker that worked with GoPro
mounts? Oh, nice. So we wereriding GoPros IPO GoPro was

(12:29):
super popular back then.
Everybody wanted one. Everybodyhad one. And so we were like,
what if we could offer thisinsane accessory and the exit
strategy was get bought byGoPro. Yeah, I knew nothing
about marketing. I didn't evenknow what advertising meant. I
didn't know people spent moneybehind Facebook videos. I had no
idea what an ad was how it gotfed to you. That people filmed

(12:49):
ads, right. I literally knewnone of this until I was about
six, seven months into mybusiness and we weren't having
any sales. Yeah. You know,again, I'm like this semi stupid
person who has the ability totake crazy risks. Yeah. And
sometimes that creates likesociety's greatest villains,

(13:13):
right? I don't think I'm avillain yet. But I've just
always been a risk taker. Andthat's what got me started in
marketing was that absolutefailure, like we had funding
that I went to knock doors on inrich neighborhoods to get
finally we got a guy to commit acouple $100,000 to the product
dev fees. I was 21 just sostupid, just so stupid, but such

(13:39):
a big dreamer that I just wasgoing to do whatever it took,
you know. And so that got mestarted into marketing because I
just failed, right? That led toa creative director position at
an ad agency which led tobuilding my social media. Yeah,
so that's kind of me in anutshell, sporadic,
unconventional but will riskeverything to make my life

(14:03):
better and the lives around mebetter.

Trevor (14:08):
Like so you're at this ad agency? What what happened at
the ad agency that made youlike, what did the ad agency
inspire you at all to get intocontent creation?

London (14:19):
No, but it refined it.
Okay. So from 2015 Even while Iwas building my business on the
side, I was always filmingYouTube videos, always doing
Instagram posts, always tryingto build some form of of an
audience. Okay. And the adagency showed me how to do that
better. So for example, rightfrom 2015 to 2018. I had been

(14:41):
making weekly content if notclose to daily, and just nobody
ever wants vlog style for youalready know, posting it. Oh,
but for your Yeah, just aboutme. So, the vlog here in their
storytime, you know, justsetting the phone My car and
telling a story. Yep. To ActionSports to comedies to sketch

(15:02):
comedy, you know, just anythingthat I thought of like you were

Mark (15:08):
dressing up and doing a sketch. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Are
these still up? You want toscroll back? Most of them are
up. Amazing. It's gonna get asocial clip of actually, I don't
know,

London (15:19):
it's a dark, dark, dark place down there, don't ya do
it, do it on your owndiscretion. But. So, right.
That's like a three year stintof I really want to be a content
creator, I really want to be afull time YouTuber was the
dream. Yeah. But you know, it'snot making money. So got this
position, the ad agency andstarted seeing online behavior,

(15:41):
what gets a click? What gets apurchase? What happens after the
click? Why do people stop onvideos? And why don't they stop
on videos? And just kind ofinherently I was just
downloading all this informationon how to get people to watch my
videos. Yeah, because I wasdoing it for my clients. And I
remember there was a turningpoint when I was on the phone

(16:02):
with a client. And I wasliterally telling him everything
he needed to do to catch a breakorganically and in everything
that he needed to do to catch abreak with paid media. Yeah. And
that was one of my best clients.
So I go, Wow, maybe I do knowsomething.

Mark (16:18):
Sure. Maybe I should do this for me. Yeah.

London (16:21):
So I'm directing this commercial. This is the best
part. And an actor that theproducer had hired shows up and
we're kind of talking shop and Igo Yeah, so what do you do other
than act and he goes home, I'mgonna take talker. And this was
February of 2020. So tick tock,and musically emerged the summer

(16:42):
prior, nobody had had it throughthe rest of the year, then
slowly, people are having it nowMike had heard of tick tock,
maybe once I saw their corny adsof like girls dancing, whatever,
that was my knowledge of ticktock. And I just am like
laughing as in his face, almostlike it made me laugh out loud.

(17:02):
And he goes, Yeah, I just said,a million followers. And I'm
like, wait, what? So to set thestage even more, the 100 days
prior to this conversation, Ihad done 100 sketch comedies in
a row, filmed audio lighting,every day, every day 100 100 in
a row scripted, differentthemes. I was making fun of

(17:23):
influencers.

Mark (17:24):
Now, are you scripting the whole thing did anyone working
with you

London (17:28):
know, scripting, shooting it by myself, and
probably 80% of the time I setit up on a tripod, get all the
shots, editing, and then postingevery day? And how how much time
was this? per day. So myschedule was nine to 559. And
this I wrote about on myLinkedIn if you want to, yeah, I
scroll on my LinkedIn. It was aschedule I set for myself just

(17:50):
for 100 days to try to get outof my job to try to make my
Instagram blog and my YouTubeblog. So work at my job nine to
nine to five, and work out on mydreams, five to nine. So in that
five to nine, I was shooting,scripting, shooting, editing,
and I didn't understand batchcontent creation, or else I
would have just shot it on theweekend. I did this every day,

(18:11):
every single day for 90 days. Sonow this kid is telling me he
shakes his ass on Tik Tok, andhas a million followers. And I'm
like this stoic, you know, oh,gee, real content created in my
head. I wasn't right. Right. Andit just did not make sense. This
is that moment when you're like,I

Mark (18:30):
got a milkshake. I can shake that.

London (18:33):
Yeah, I could do that.
It's that moment when yourealize, you know, you're almost
part of the big joke. You know,you're part of like The Truman
Show where? Here I am doing myabsolute best to entertain
people. And here this kid isshaking his ass. Yeah. So it was
just mind blown. I don't thinkup until that point, I had met

(18:54):
somebody with a millionfollowers on social media. So I
was just so intrigued, right?
Because I was trying to reachthat. And I get on his profile.
And again, I'm just sodistraught. I'm like, Are you
kidding me? How is thispossible? But that took my mind
from maybe tic TOCs just wherethe attention is going. Like,

(19:15):
how does this kid already have amillion followers? Yeah, I
didn't know there's a millionpeople on tick tock. So that was
February of 2020, March of 2020.
I said, I'm going to do 100 TicTOCs in a month. And I'm going
to prove this kid wrong. Thatyou know, I can do it too, but
it's not hard. It's just kind ofthis vendetta almost even though
me and this kid are super close.

(19:37):
Now here. You can love eachother. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm
going to do this as a vendettapost 100 times. So zero
followers.

Mark (19:44):
How many followers does he have now?

Trevor (19:46):
Like 1.8 or something?
So you want yeah, big time.

London (19:52):
Rather than his face.
Here's

Mark (19:53):
kid 9x Remember that?

London (19:55):
Yeah. Yeah, it told you now. If I saw beginning March 1,
or whatever it was somewhere inthere, I just said three videos
a day. Let's do this. Picked upthe nine to five, five to nine,
roll again. And did 100 100videos just random, anything I

(20:17):
could think of. Not dancing, nodancing, no trends, just sketch
comedy, storytime, Tesla'sstuff, whatever I can think of
that. Yeah, at the end of themonth had had 100k. I'm like, I
knew it. I knew it. This iswhere the attention is. This is
where it's going short formcontent that the agency that I
was working at, we were alreadydoing short form content now. I

(20:40):
started to see it moreorganically. Yep. So

Mark (20:43):
and when did you start seeing short form content? Take
off, right, because you workedat this background knowledge
that maybe the listener doesn'tknow. Yeah, but good knowledge.
You worked at chamber media,which is one of the premiere
kind of video production agency.
Yeah, one of the bigger

Trevor (20:58):
Harmon brothers style.
Yep. Stuff like raindrop.

Mark (21:01):
So yep. Those types of agencies. And that's all long
form. Really? high production?
Yeah, like million dollar typevideos. And they're five minutes
long, right? sometimes longer.
Yeah, totally. So when did youstart noticing, oh, shoot, like,
these aren't hitting the sameway they used to? Or at least,
maybe like the costeffectiveness of it, perhaps

(21:23):
going down? Yeah. And you sawthis opening was short form?
Like, when did that happen?

London (21:28):
It's a good, it's good question. So I started the
agents agency, right at the endof 2018. And what was going on
is we would build these hugevideos. I mean, yeah, like you
said, over the course of a year,there's companies are spending a
million dollars on these videos,right.

Mark (21:43):
And disclaimer, I still think they're worth it in
certain situation a lot for alot of reasons. So I'm not
saying they're not worth itanymore, but not where there
was, there was a shift in thethere's a shift in in behavior
and what people

Trevor (21:55):
want how we consume.
Yeah,

London (21:57):
there's just an opening, right. And so here's what
happened. This was my firstbecause again, my my marketing
and advertising knowledge isstill very limited. Like I had
learned it since my firstbusiness, but it's still pretty
limited. This, this was a dreamjob. For me, I knew that if I
could get in at an agency, I'dbe able to build anything and
sell anything I wanted afterthat, the stepping stone for me.

(22:18):
And not to downplay myperformance agency, but it was
definitely a stepping stone,just like everything I do. Like,
if, if what I'm doing now isn'ta stepping stone to something
better. Why am I even doing it?
Right, right. So we had thisclient who again, had spent
like, $75,000 on one five minutevideo. And we call them anchor
videos, Hero videos, you know,whatever, staple videos, and it

(22:41):
absolutely flopped. Again, itwas more top of the funnel, but
nothing was trickling to thebottom even. And the president
of the company goes, Hey,London, like we were about to
lose this client. Can you justfilm a little just a little
something for free on your owntime or whatever? And I go,
Yeah, fill in this little thingin my kitchen. And can you say

(23:03):
what company it was? It was forJoe? Joe? Dark chocolate Joe
Joe's dark chocolate. Like a bigCostco brand now. Yeah,

Trevor (23:11):
I know the owner of that. Yeah, he's from here,
right? Yes. From the alpinearea. So we did. Yeah. Joe. Joe.
Joe's Have you

London (23:18):
chose not so good? Yeah, it's pretty good. And it's like
what is very natural, veryhealthy gender fluid.

Trevor (23:24):
He married a he? Yeah, exactly. He married a covey.
Gluten Free he married a coveynine free cage free.

Mark (23:32):
I'm all I'm all about making sure everything I eat has
dairy and as

Trevor (23:36):
I have that type I'm just kidding. It might not have
that time. I can't rememberthough. I'm

Mark (23:41):
the raw milk guy who's

London (23:42):
have dairy in it. It's an apple.

Mark (23:45):
Thanks for me sorry.

Trevor (23:50):
Yeah, all right.
Proceed. Something in yourkitchen.

London (23:54):
So you Joe Joe will judge as the mom or something
yeah to cancer.

Trevor (24:00):
I don't know that part.
Definitely the mom

London (24:04):
and I just filmed this ad it was kind of I was already
doing a ton of video on my ownobviously had those skills of
editing, edit this little thingtogether crop it square, which
was starting to happen already.
crop it square, give it to ourad buyers, they start running it
crushes the long form $75,000ad, this free piece of content
that had zero script zeroplanning. I did some product

(24:29):
shots. You know,

Trevor (24:32):
but you weren't your Speedo. I was bought made. Yeah.
Okay, so that x Yeah.

London (24:37):
Yeah, dang it. So my whole career is a sham.

Mark (24:39):
Just a little twerking.

London (24:40):
Yeah, it was like a little twerking to really cool
product shots, twerking, and youknow, me eating it. torquing and

Trevor (24:46):
little melted chocolate on the chest, you know?

London (24:50):
And that was my first sight. And so I remember the
conversation. Me and thePresident had was like, this
could just be like a littlesecret offering we did Go kind
of behind the scenes so we getthe group

Mark (25:03):
menu if you see your menu.
Oh, will sell out burger there.

London (25:08):
Yeah, the Flying Dutchman. Yeah, well, I've never
heard of that. It's just meat.
Oh, it's so stupid. I have afriend that eats it. It's Patty
cheese patty. The FlyingDutchman is so good. I'm like
what?

Trevor (25:25):
I get the pickled peppers. Have you heard of the
peppers? Yeah,

Mark (25:30):
on the menu, Animal Style animal style.

London (25:35):
Okay, well, that's not secret, bro.

Mark (25:37):
It's not

London (25:38):
that's not a secret secret. 15 Okay, that's that's
novice bro. Flying Dutchman TheFlying Dutchman? I've never
heard of that one. Yeah, well,you say to some of the employees
and they go what? And you goyeah, you ain't a real one.

Trevor (25:49):
Must be new on there.

London (25:51):
Yeah, what are you new?
Go ask your manager.

Mark (25:55):
$20 an hour minimum employee here and you can't even

Trevor (26:00):
man those Yeah, those guys are making like 100 grand
managers now like no, I thinkmore more like they're making
six figures.

London (26:05):
Plus they have to though those busy workers. I always
hype up the drive thru guy. I'mlike, dude, bro show you work
harder than 90% of Americans.
Almost like really? I'm like,Yeah, and you you burn more
calories just at your job than90% of Americans.

Mark (26:23):
In another life. I'd love to be like an in and out
manager.

London (26:26):
I see him with the hat though.

Mark (26:28):
Amazing. Not only that, I would eat a burger every day. I
never get sick of burgers. LikeI could literally eat a burger
every day of my life.

Trevor (26:35):
I messed up dairy. I managed a Cold Stone Creamery.

Mark (26:39):
I was like, You can't eat ice cream every day. That's
badass. I did when you get sickof it. I can't eat ice cream
every day. But meat

London (26:48):
I don't hamburger

Trevor (26:50):
anymore, but I didn't work.

Mark (26:53):
Well. What would you do in your alternate life later liver,

London (26:56):
you're Are you really I am Larry King.

Trevor (26:58):
You're bought into him now that he got caught doing

London (27:01):
now I had to I had to cancel my subscription.

Mark (27:06):
You just got all me Oregon diet. I don't remember where we
picked this kidney. So you

Trevor (27:12):
Okay, your boss? He's like, Yeah, offer this secret
menu.

London (27:17):
So he's like, every time we had a sales call, I'll set
one up for you. And you justkind of pitch them as a little
tack on like $7,000. tack on.
Everybody started buying it.
Every single person. I mean, itwas it was just crazy. Totally.
We were selling it for way toocheap, by the way, for sure,
obviously. But pretty soon, wehad three or four clients that

(27:41):
just wanted short form content.
And they said aren't Londonlike, you know, this was kind of
your baby? Yeah, take it and runand ended up managing that
department. You know, by theend, we were doing several
$100,000 months can varyconsistently. I have some short
form, just in short form. So nolong form. I had about 50

(28:01):
employees under me that weresplit into teams. Each team had
10 clients, something like that.
And

Mark (28:18):
what was the final quantity? For each client?

London (28:21):
It varied, but it was pay us a retainer for X amount
of months for X amount ofdeliverables. Yeah. And you
know, there was graphics inthere. Just creative. I mean,
again, now it sounds standard.
But I thought I was Steve Jobs.
You know, five years ago? Sure.
I was like, This is crazy.
Everybody's just saying yes. Ithink that's actually the beauty

(28:43):
of where

Mark (28:43):
you're like Screw you.
UVU. I can do math. I manage 660people.

London (28:51):
Yeah. And the cool thing about that is and the thing that
I want to tell everybodylistening, is that if you can
just find if you can just Okay,so you have your product. And if
you can just figure out how toget people to say yes, that's
like, that's part of the sorry,that's the hardest battle is
getting people to say yes. Andonce you get people to say yes.

(29:13):
For example, the last two years,one of my products sold like
hotcakes with the tic toc stuff.
And now it's not. Yeah, butbecause I've had that experience
where I can get time and timeagain, people to just say yes,
and just pay me almostimmediately. I know I can do it
again. So we're starting topivot and we're starting to see
more yeses versus more nose. ButI feel like so many people are

(29:33):
just okay with scraping by andthey don't look at their product
and go why aren't people sayingyes to this? Instead? They're
just trying harder to makepeople say yes, sales is so
easy, especially in marketing.
It is so easy when you have theright product. It is so easy.
Since the beginning of timepeople have needed marketing
advertising and videoproduction, right? Sure. So why

(29:55):
like try so hard to get somebodysay Yes, right. So if you can
just get to a point point whereyou can get multiple yeses.
You're on your look, you're onthe right track. If everybody's
saying now look at yourproducts, right, get your
pricing, don't just say, Oh,they weren't the right one, that
might be true. But after twoyears of doing that, and you
haven't made good money yet, so

Mark (30:18):
we love talking about that, right? Like product.
There's only so much you can doin advertising, right? There's
only so many levers out there.
And sometimes you think there'sgoing to be this like magic
silver bullet that you get. Andit's just like, boom, I am a
millionaire now. And sometimesyou are sitting on a goldmine
just because you don't have theright advertising. But totally,
like, you need to do some innerreflection as a company. Yeah.

(30:40):
2% 100%.

London (30:43):
I see, like, all, you know, video production agencies
ad buying agencies, and yeah,it's the same library,
everybody's doing the same thingpitching the same thing. So why
would they say yes to you? Andnotice somebody else is the
struggle. So again, it's how toget people to say, Yes, look
inwards, look at your products.
And so that set me on a wholenew path. This, you know, just

(31:05):
having so many teams under memanagement leadership, it was
just kind of skyrocket, right?
And,

Trevor (31:17):
and remind me during this time, you're, you've got
100,000 followers, right? Plus,you're not okay, so do we, this
was 118 to 2020. We took alittle setback of it, just
managing so building the

London (31:27):
department, the short form department was 2018, it's
20. On a per van, we starthaving the obvious conversation,
which wasn't too obvious to theowners of like, hey, please show
me a revenue sheet. And I wantto compare what I'm doing to you
guys. type thing. Yeah. Eventhough it's their company.
That's fine. But I want a littlebit more. I want a little bit

(31:49):
more. Yeah. You want me to haveskin in this game? Give me
something. Yeah. Give me anoffer. And that's just when it
went. So South, got completelypushed out of the agency
simultaneously? Oh, yeah. Oh,yeah.

Mark (32:00):
Maybe we should cut out in the name. So I didn't know the
story was going that's up

London (32:05):
to you. No, no, by the way, me and the owners are all
we're good. Yeah, you're goodnow? Oh, we're totally good.
Yeah, we talk all the time. Itwas just this, maybe maybe a
little bit of a power struggle,right. I mean, I think about my
own company by some hotshotrising, and he's taken over the
company, by in terms of peoplethat work for him. Right. And

(32:26):
we're all the revenues coming. Imean, I would like to think I'd
offer him something. And so thatled me to just figure out how
I'm going to build my own life,which so I'm almost thankful
for. For that, in a lot of ways.
It didn't workout. I, I can'timagine life outside of an ad

(32:46):
agency right now. I just can'timagine. So. Thanks, guys.

Trevor (32:51):
It's crazy. It's crazy.
Hill, I want to hit on that.
Because there's so many of uswho lose a job or, you know, you
get, you might get replaced byAI, or you're getting Yeah,
whatever it might be like, sooften, people get rocked a
little bit right here. You are,like, you know, you're probably

(33:12):
feeling at the prime of yourlife. Look what I'm doing. Like
I built this thing that's makingx amount of million dollars a
year. I'm invincible. Thiscompany can't live without me.
Yeah. And then all of a sudden,the next thing you know, it's
like, they're slowly pushing youout and somehow living without
you. Yeah, right. Yeah. And youthink that you know, sometimes

(33:32):
you think that it's the end ofthe world or whatever, you know,
and you're feeling really down,but nine times out of 10. If
you've got the right, as clicheand cheesy as it sounds,
attitude, like,

London (33:43):
it's 100% The grass is greener, like,

Trevor (33:45):
I know, the grass isn't always greener. But if you've
got the right attitude, like,it's always going to push you
into the next best thing yet,right? Very rarely have I ever
seen somebody where if they hada really good attitude, and they
were a go getter, get pushedout, get fired, get laid off,
whatever it might be, jobbecomes obsolete, and they take

(34:05):
a step back. They're alwaystaking a step forward when
they've got the right out. 100%.

London (34:09):
Right. They've got that they've got that chip on the
shoulder. But my quitting storyis even better. I accidentally
clicked on Good Morning America.
Amazing on accident. Let's hearit. I don't think I've told this
story in a long time.

Mark (34:23):
And I'm assuming there's a clip of it.

London (34:26):
100% Yeah. Google London. Laz. Good Morning
America. And in there, I say,you know, Tiktok well, I'll get
to it. But okay, so we have cometo these crossroads where maybe
I wasn't the best fit for theagency anymore. And, and on my
end internally to I was like, Ican't be here anymore. If I'm
not. If I'm not walking awaywith a massive check when you

(34:48):
guys sell, uh, not going tobuild this for you. I need to
build my own thing, right? Yep.
And so there's this perfectcrossroads. I mean, talk about
destiny. little sliver ofdestiny. You You have my tic
tock blowing up. And then youhave upper management, not
wanting me there, right? It'sjust perfect. So I told the
President I was like, the, andhe was kind of naive to the

(35:12):
situation. Because again, tictock still wasn't popular. Sure,
yeah. And he goes, this is 2020.
Yeah, this is summer 2022. Hegoes, somebody told me something
like you have half a millionfollowers on Tiktok. And I was
like, that's 100k. Yeah. And hewas just, he was just, again,

(35:32):
that same. I think that samefeeling I got from that kid who
told me he had a million I thinkyou got for me? Sure. He was
like, How is this possible?
Like, what's going on? supersupportive, right. And I go,
Yeah, and I just want to beupfront, if this thing hits a
million, I'm quitting on thespot. Yeah. And he's like, Well,
damn, you know, I think it kindof made him happy that I was
just a weird situation. So ithits a million in September. And

(35:54):
since we already had thatdiscussion a couple of months
earlier, he, you know, once he'slike, okay, let's plan your
exit. I need two months out ofyou. Right. We need a train your
replacement, yada, yada. I waslike, perfect. Perfect. Perfect.
Let's do it. And like that nextweekend. Good morning. America
wants to interview me. Yeah. Andtick tock, tick tock. How not to

(36:17):
do the agency more now. Nothing.
Yeah, just tick tock. Is thedrama of the agency. Yeah,

Trevor (36:24):
we heard that there's some inner workings, the small
company in Salt Lake City.

London (36:29):
Please tell us have you been mistreated? And so, I mean,
yeah, back then. Like you had amillion followers on Tiktok? Not
many. Yeah, I don't know. Idon't know what the pool was. I
wish I did.

Mark (36:42):
But no idea.

London (36:43):
So it's a million. And we're planning this quitting
that weekend. Like, literallyafter that conversation where we
started planning. Get on GoodMorning, America. And they
wanted to talk about howcreators on Tik Tok are making
money. And if it can replaceyour job, and just one of the
first things I said was like,Yeah, I quit my job. Because I'm

(37:07):
starting to see some tractionover on my tic tock is just such
an offhanded comment. That wasthe header. That was the only
piece that made the interview.
That was the whole point of GoodMorning. Good Morning, America
talking to me. So now I'm anidiot. And I'm such a loyal
person, almost to my demisewhere maybe I speak too soon,
because I'm scared if somebodyfinds that thing out. So I call

(37:27):
the honors. And I'm like, hey,they would have never seen Good
Morning America who watchesthat? Yeah. First off, none of
the employees are gonna see it.

Trevor (37:38):
Right. They don't even know what it is. Yeah, like your
grandma. Yeah. And then she,

Unknown (37:43):
you quit your job?
Where's the stability?

Trevor (37:47):
You know, are you sure about this?

London (37:49):
This tip tap app is Chinese. Anyway, and yeah, that
was just kind of an epic storywhere it just we the best part
about the Good Morning Americathing is he shortened my what
period of training or whatever,to your two month

Trevor (38:11):
chain? Yeah, he

London (38:12):
was like, let's just get just in case that comes out.
Right. Because the next Monday,I got in front of the company
and told them I was exiting.
Right. So it was kind of, again,you talk about making decisions
for me. I tried to be sodecisive and so calculated in
everything I do. But it seemslike just this conversation, I'm
hearing myself be like, damn,some of these decisions were

(38:33):
really easy. Yeah, you know, andmaybe maybe that goes to say, if
you're listening to this, thatmaybe some of the decisions that
have been made for your life,you just didn't even notice.
Totally, you know what I mean?
The the things that led you to agreater place, maybe there's
things that were pushing youthat way and I'm always looking
for things to like, kind ofsteer my ship formula. But

(38:55):
that's that. So anyway,Marketing School. All right.
Well, um, so

Mark (39:01):
he leaves the agency Luke kalamarez crying in the corner.
Yeah.

London (39:06):
No, we never talked about Luke on podcast.

Trevor (39:11):
All right. So okay, so you leave the agency and now you
were full fledged, you're fullfledged content creator. What?

London (39:21):
like soccer? My favorite quote is crap. I'm blanking now.
It's you either you either livelong enough to die a hero, or
what's the what's the Batmanquote? Harvey? Yeah,

Mark (39:34):
yeah. Long enough to become the villain or die. Oh,

London (39:38):
yeah. You either die a hero or live long enough to
become a tick tock a nice,that's that's my tagline.
Because it's so true. It's likeeverybody's becoming a tick
tock. Yeah. So you either diehere.

Trevor (39:50):
Yeah. So what's what's some of your biggest like, I
would love one thing I talkwell, we talk a lot about two
brands and one thing so Mark andI we We've owned a small
marketing agency. Yeah. One ofthe biggest

London (40:03):
buying creative or what's the bottling? Both? Yeah,

Mark (40:06):
well, like post production post production. Yeah, we're

Trevor (40:08):
not, we don't film No, like graphic design,

Mark (40:12):
video editing,

Trevor (40:13):
just take everything and then we should have graphics. So
the

London (40:15):
company makes them and then they produce good for you.

Trevor (40:19):
So one of the things that we would recognize when we
were running ads and likereally, really in depth in deep,
you know, doing that, you know,like, Phil, full focus was that
the there was a strongcorrelation with brands who are
succeeding who had strongorganic and personal brands,
like entrepreneur, they werecrushing it big time. What, what

(40:43):
are some thoughts or some tipsthat you have for individuals,
like whether that might be abusiness owner or the brand
themselves? On getting started?
Because I still think eventhough we're even though tick
tock, like, you're saying, like,Hey, you live long enough,
you're gonna be a tick talker.
Right? Like, there's stillbrands who are utterly

(41:04):
terrified, and individuals whoare terrified of that what what
are some thoughts initial tipsyou have?

London (41:10):
I love this question.
Because there's this wholethere's a philosophy behind the
question. And I think in the,you know, the 1900s, if you look
at the 1900s, like pre internetinto internet, like early
internet, off, it was offercreates clients, I think was the
kind of statement who has thebest offer. Right? Are you

(41:35):
talking about digital marketing?
Who has the best offer? Theyprobably have the most clients?
Sure. I think it's totallyflipped on its head. I mean, I
hear some of these offers thatthese ad agencies are making and
for whatever reason, they have aton of clients. It's gone from
offer creates clients to cloutcreates clients. And those are

(41:55):
kind of my three C's. Yeah. Soin the early days, I told my I
had about $400 a month to hirean assistant, manage my email,
send out contracts like DAGs,the whole nine yards. And I
said, I said, just to find the Isaid, to find it. If I get
views, I get clients. That isit. That is simple, simple,

(42:16):
simple, simple, simple. And youknow, we didn't understand the
complexity or the depth of thatstatement before it happened.
Sure. So my whole focus wentaway from outbound sales,
running ads for myself, grindingLinkedIn to make the most
entertaining most viral contentpossible. Klout creates clients.

(42:38):
Let's do kind of the opposite ofwhat somebody who wants clients
is and make all this content forfree. In hopes that I catch some
eyes because yeah, tick tock wasobviously dude, you would not
believe the the amount of moneypeople were willing to spend to
test tick tock, year and a halfago. Yeah, it was. It was so

(42:59):
sad. Some of these checks thatwere cut. Anyway, look, Travis
Barker, look at that ad. It'scrazy. I couldn't believe they
did that.

Mark (43:08):
Interesting. They they got a lot. Uh, they got a lot of
guts, dude. They do. They do.
That's why they're okay. Yeah,they don't care about anything.
That's why they say

Trevor (43:15):
I will say this, though.
They are they have never been inthe black.

London (43:20):
They're in the red.
What? Yeah, profit profitablewise, and

Trevor (43:24):
they've not saved yet to be profitable.

Mark (43:27):
Yikes, they're not profitable. Like, talk

London (43:30):
about that? Well, okay

Trevor (43:31):
to get much money they put in marketing.

London (43:33):
Right. But if I'm the owner, if I'm the owner, you
know, you talk about steppingstones. These companies don't go
don't make profit for a reason.
This guy is this guy could beusing this ng X for 100

Trevor (43:47):
million dollars. You know, yeah, you don't need to.
It's an

London (43:49):
engine. Yeah. Right.

Mark (43:51):
Yeah, I think the CPG space is a little different.
Yeah. And in E commerce, likeDTC? I don't know. Because the
whole conversation right now.
venture backed. Yeah, like Ecomm. And how bad it's gone.
Like, it's not a good track toomuch of it? No, not at all, like
Honest Company. Right? They werelike a billion. I think they're
all the way down like they'redown 90% from their top

(44:12):
valuation. It's like, it's abloodbath out there. Also,

London (44:16):
just all this valuation stuff. I it's almost like, yeah,
it's almost like we don't wantto actually be valued this, we
just want an article to say thatwe're valued this. It's so
backwards, right? Like I wouldrather I would rather have a
million dollars cash. And leteverybody know that then have

(44:37):
everybody think that I have 100million cash, you know what I'm
saying? But also perception isreality. So

Mark (44:44):
Well, I think what you said, right, it's like Cloud.
Yeah, right. Cloud gets youclients cloud gets your
business, but like that's a wayof generating clout, right? But
there's a huge risk factor init. It's like trying to shoot
off a rocket ship with a fuelsystem.

Trevor (45:00):
Yeah, if you can't personally write the same thing,
right? Like, hey, I've gotcloud, I've got all these views.
You start doing stuff. This isthis will be interesting how
you're going to tie this it backto because we wrote one tangent
and then it arrived. Yeah.
Anyways, it'll be interesting,right? Like, there's this cloud,
right? You get the views, andthen you start getting clients
and then if they don't see thevalue from it, then you don't
get that. Yeah, you don't getrepeated get read up. We're at

(45:21):
spreads because DDC founderstalk to DTC founders. Yep. Hey,
all I saw you use London. Yep.
Didn't work. And that's worked

London (45:31):
both ways. For me, I'm sure now you, you create
relationships that kill it. Andthose always make new
relationships, youunfortunately, that's the price
of business, you're gonna paysomebody off. You piss somebody
off, and you don't get the nextguy, you know, and that's fine.
But yeah, and again, I hate theword cloud, because it's this
fake perception of somebody'swealth, but

Trevor (45:49):
it's so true. And it's true. It's so true. I mean,
dude, I do not have a lot offollowers. So me saying what I'm
about to say is really stupidfollowers. It doesn't mean it's
really stupid. When I'm talkingto someone who's got $9 million.
I've got like, 36,000. Okay,that's simple. But people take
me more serious.

London (46:10):
Oh, dear dad. So if you want to get into this, I don't
want to talk about this. It's sobad. For example, just true.

Trevor (46:16):
Right? You and I'm doing flyers. You must be important,

London (46:18):
dude. Right? Exactly.
Today, I get this. I went withLuke to Lifetime Fitness. I was
on his guests past, they makeyou sign this contract that
you're a guest and they gave youyou gave them their your email,
your phone, whatever. I get oneof the first emails from a sales
rep. His name's Devin. And Devinis like, hey, London, you know,
template. Hey, London, wouldlove to talk about potentially
working with each other,literally. And this is with

(46:42):
years of contacts. I've donethis so many times. It's bad.
But I go, Hey, how are Hey,could I trade one tick tock for
a year of lifetime? Here's mytic tock. And he just wrote me
back right before this meeting.
Let's talk about it. So it'slike, you can literally turn

(47:02):
your cloud into whatever youwant. It's so bad. It's so sad.
And but you see, I would hopenobody ever perceives me as
somebody that takes advantage ofthat. Sure. You know, because I
don't I don't try to but it'slike, love lifetime. It's way
too expensive. But they alsohave way too many things that I
wouldn't use. So I'm like, shootmy shot. Yeah, you want to tick

(47:23):
tock? Because even if I got themto signups, was it worth it to
give me a free? I don't know.

Trevor (47:30):
Totally, probably 100%.
So you're at probably more thanwhat a year's worth of Yeah,
yeah, totally payment?

London (47:38):
I'll do I do things all the time. But yeah. Again, if
you never ask the answer isalways no. And I always say,
hey, if there's any way I canhelp you with your marketing
efforts, and use my tic tock,give me what I want for free,
totally written, you would notbelieve what whoever and like I
wrote KTM for a dirt bike. Theysaid no. Yeah. You know, right.

(47:59):
It could have been like, fivebite. Yeah.

Mark (48:02):
No, I don't think you're abusing it unless you're
treating people poorly. True.
Right. Like, that's,

London (48:08):
like, first thing you do?

Mark (48:10):
I mean, you know, if it's a reciprocal business
transaction, like I don't thinkthere's anything moral about it,
or a moral or immoral? Well,it's not a moral issue is what
I'm saying. I agree. Like, hey,I'll do this for you like your
trading services, which is avalue, right? It's like it
really just comes down to like,Are you being good to people?
Totally. I try to be that's howpeople abuse that I think about

(48:32):
try to be I think it's actuallyinteresting. A lot of the
influencers I know, a lot ofpeople judge them thinking that
they're like, horrible people.
Yeah. Right. Like, like normalpeople.

Trevor (48:42):
Totally. Well, here's why influencer I've met has
always been quite genuine. It'svery true. I have I have met I'm
sure they're out. I have counselthat I've been like, Man that
fits. But yeah, I think I've metI meet more people like you who
I'm like, these people. Wow.
Like, this guy could be amassive dick. Totally. Yeah. And

(49:03):
he's only just a little dick.
Yeah.

London (49:07):
You know, I have one.
Yeah.

Mark (49:09):
Well, in fact, I saw London Fashion Place Mall.
They're going around two yearsago.

London (49:15):
You just when I was just playing a bird? Yeah. doing
pranks. Yeah. Like you

Mark (49:19):
were you're there with the some guy following you. And
you're like, you're just likeasking that

London (49:23):
was my first and last time doing that, by the way, was
it? Yeah. But he was going you

Mark (49:27):
were going on? I was buying something at keels. And I
remember seeing to go aroundnormal. I know that guy. Yeah.
So I just watched for like,minutes. Yeah, of him going
around. And he was prankingpeople. But like you were you
were still like, talking to themafterwards. Like if they were
like that. You're like, it's allright.

London (49:47):
To the public stuff, man. I'm too nice. And just too
nice. Like this one. So theprank was I would go hey, do you
know where the witch storesells? Like booby traps. They'd
be like Which booby traps? I'dbe like, yeah. These two guys
break into my house everyChristmas and I set up movie
traps. I was playing off theKevin McAllister thing. And

(50:09):
they're like, What? They'relike, some people were so nice,
like you should call a cops. AndI'm like, no, no, no, it's fine.
It's this thing we do everyyear, they tried to break in my
house, and I tried to trap them.
And you know, they didn't getit, but like the hook was, hey,
people think I look like KevinMcAllister. So let's go primo
calling market. And this chickgot so mad when she saw that
when she saw the camera camera.

(50:32):
And so I'm like, Yeah, I can'tdo this. Yeah. But yeah, I think
I think it's true. And you'llyou'll, you'll run into him for
sure. But I think the thingabout influencers is there's
this, I feel like the found thefounding fathers of influencers
and content creators were soboastful in the amount of money
they're making, because it itcan be crazy, right? I remember
my first just glimpse into whata content creator makes. It was

(50:55):
just numbers I could notperceive. For example, one of
the first articles I read whenLogan Paul was doing Snapchat, I
think at the time is DunkinDonuts paid him 50 grand for one
Snapchat, and I was like, making25,000 at an editing job. And I
was like, that's not a year.
Right, right. 25,000 a year hedid one Snapchat selfie video
for 50k.

Trevor (51:18):
Right? disappeared in 24 hours or whatever. Yeah,
exactly.

London (51:22):
I'm like, that's not right. Someone's math is off
here. Either I'm an idiot, orthe person that wrote this
article is an idiot. But one ofus is wrong. And that creates
such a crazy perception ofothers. And so I think,
unfortunately, my brand and whoI am, is yours, of these

(51:43):
influencers, boasting the money,the products, they sell this,
just this traction that they cangenerate, when in reality, the
standard content creatorprobably isn't clear in six
figures. You know, even at mylevel, like, especially if you
look at tick tock centricinfluencers. I would love I

(52:04):
would love to have aconversation with somebody and
just pick into their businessand just call them on their
bullshit, because most of it isif you're a tick tock, right,
based, it's really hard. It'sreally hard to make money just
on tick tock. It's totally,they're totally. And so my
marketing background helps somuch. That's why I think this ad
agency so much, because it'slike, because of how many

(52:25):
clients I had to sell there.
It's so easy selling now,because of how I priced my
pricing there. I can price ithere. And even when I get on the
phone, and you know what toexpect, like imagine you guys
have a brand and you hear aboutthis London, last kid in Utah?
And you're like, Yeah, let'stake a call. But he's one of
those domestic talkers rightthat regardless of your saying
it, there's thatsubconsciousness like, he's a

(52:46):
TIG talker, he doesn't knowanything. But I want to work
with him because he's funny.
That is the preconception ofevery single person that gets on
the phone, or that's how I treatit. Because it really takes the
wow factor up a level when I canspeak when I can do marketing
speak totally. And they go. Whatdid you do? And I was like, I

(53:09):
was marketing, Directormarketing at an ad agency. Oh,
that's crazy. Yeah. And how canwe work together? Well, you can
make content or use my ad buyeror both. And sure, you know, I
don't think there's any otherinfluencer in the world who
knows what an ad buyer is. Thatknows that there's a person that
does that. Yeah. I mean, I haveyet to meet one.

Mark (53:27):
Yeah, no, yeah, you

Trevor (53:28):
definitely have a lot more people who like, like
content creation will like thepeople who are really winning
oftentimes, content creation wastheir first stepping stone into
this markets. Content Creation,for sure is marketing. Oh,
right. It's just different. It'sjust a different piece of it,
you know, you very rarely do youget, which is kind of funny,
because as marketers, you go toschool, you get your master's

(53:49):
degree, you work for thesecompanies, and you can't, nine
times out of 10, they cannotfigure out how to grow the way
even though they learned thefive P's of marketing, and they
did all this and that, you know,but it's really funny. Like, I
would always talk toinfluencers, like when I was
talking, you know, I used to bea CMO at a DTC company
influences all the time. Andthat's what I would say I'm

(54:09):
like, you know, it's reallyfunny. Like, I spent like my
entire career trying to learnwhat you're doing and I can't do
it. So congratulations, youknow, well,

London (54:15):
there's so much luck to it. It's like your personality
with the market with the type ofcontent your mind with how much
you can with how much you canproduce. Here's the thing I was
destined to be a big tick talkerregardless of anybody was gonna
like me because I was doingthree videos a day for a year
and a half. I didn't miss asingle day. I miss a single day
so it's like I say this all thetime. You are going to you are

(54:37):
going to see something from meregardless if you liked it. That
was totally my my idea thathopefully, you know you fell in
love with the personality andright, bought something

Mark (54:47):
that goes back to just marketing principles. Like you
said, it's impressions. Itstouch points, like how many
touch points can you generatewith your audience and the more
touch points you generate, themore interest you will end up
creating. So And then anotherpoint you made that I love is we
talked about that all the time,which is marketing to marketers.
Something that you identifiedreally early on is where the

(55:08):
audience was going, not whatmarketers were saying, but where
the actual consumer was going,which was to tick tock. And
that's a different ballgame overthere. Right? Which 95% of
marketers could not figure thatout? No. Didn't recognize that
until like, last year.

London (55:22):
It's too late. I see a lot of ad agencies switching
their whole entire offering toTik Tok. I'm like, You guys are
stupid. It's turning on its headright now. What people don't
realize is photos are about tomake a massive, massive comeback
and long form video, I would saywithin the next two years. Tick
tock is going to be this. Well,okay, so it's kind of like all

(55:45):
these all these rocks are likeare the funnels all caught up in
different pieces, and now it'sstarting to form and you're
starting to see that tick tockis going to sit at the top of
the funnel for probably ever,then we're so Tiktok isn't
you're not going to convert anymore followers on Tiktok. I
don't think what's going tohappen is Holy shit. I love
these guys. I love their stuff.
I saw him on Tik Tok. You know,and you post frequently so I

(56:07):
keep seeing you on Tik Tok. Andthen maybe one day I swipe over
on your profile, click theInstagram. There's the
conversion. Get you get see ifyou have good photos. If you
have other good higher qualitycontent, then maybe I give you a
follow there. If not, again, Isee you on tick tock, then I'm
like, let's check out these guysYouTube video. And then I go
Holy shit, they've got thesehuge episodes like they're
clearly bringing value. That'sthe bottom of the funnel. You

(56:30):
know what I mean? Tick tock issuch an a discovery phase. And,
you know, it's, it's about toflip on its head. So I always
when I talk to founders ofagencies, or I talk to other
agencies, I say, hey, just becareful switching up your
offering don't go all in on ticktock just like it might be too
late. The money, the real money,the millions of dollars was made

(56:51):
a year and a half ago.

Trevor (56:54):
That's actually like, probably some of the most
valuable words spoken in thepodcast. Right now. For anybody
who's listening. Like that's areally, there's still tons of
value and Tiktok 100% tons oftons of value. You have to do
tick tock, but I think you'reright that the boat of changing
everything up. You've missedthat boat if you haven't already

(57:14):
done it on your wrist.

London (57:15):
Like I look at it this way. If I can get you to watch,
if you can see me seven times ontick tock. I need you. The seven
times you see me on Tik Tok willlead to a follow on a more
follower centric platform.
That's what I want. So if I canget you to watch a couple of my
videos on Tiktok top of funnel,I don't care about your follow

(57:36):
there. And that's easy for me tosay because I've already built
so big but I don't necessarilycare about your follower there.
I care about your follower onYouTube and Instagram where
you're actually going to knowme. You watch one of my YouTube
videos that's 1010 to 30 minuteslong. That's like watching 300
of my tiktoks Totally in onesitting

Trevor (57:54):
well and and not only that, but Tik Tok. Like if I'm
following on Tik Tok, I'm notseeing you on Tik Tok

London (58:00):
usually, right? Like so many things. But

Trevor (58:02):
if I, if I'm following you on Instagram, I will see you
on Instagram, or YouTube orYouTube as long as I spend a
decent amount of time like I'llfind you there. Yeah, totally.

Mark (58:11):
I mean, I think it's even for the Creator themselves. It's
better to be on YouTube andInstagram because it's better
monetization for Korea.

London (58:20):
They're bought into you not? So yeah, I think I think
that's the difference. You know,I've launched several products
on my own tic tock trying topush myself trying to push it
myself and it you know, ifyou're pushing products on tick
tock as an influencer, it's,it's kind of difficult. It's a
difficult game. And I think Ifigured it out. We're actually
about to launch something prettysick. Which I guess we can break

(58:43):
it here. I've been wanting tosay it on on Instagram. Now that
we actually have the plan. I trynot to talk before I walk around

Mark (58:49):
podcast exclusive.

London (58:51):
Exclusive. Remember that horn? Damage, where's the hard?
Okay, so I've had this kind ofconundrum where I'm like, I have
audience I get a lot of views.
How do I push something that'svaluable to a new on comer? And
not even necessarily somebodywho's actually invested in me,

(59:14):
right? Because again, tick tockis top of funnel. They're not
invested in you there. But theysee you all the time. So I'm
like, Okay, if they're notinvested in me, they're How do I
push a product that you couldpotentially find and by? And
also, how do I create a brand sothis is what I'm wearing? This
is our first iteration. It'svery different now but this is

(59:37):
called small brain. Okay, so mymy tagline since the beginning
was small brain big dreamsagain, playing off the
stupidities. Gonna say

Mark (59:44):
going back to the UVU.
Math. Yeah, exactly. That

London (59:47):
mother ever.

Trevor (59:49):
That's the name of the collection, whatever that math
class was the math. Rafi. No,don't be like math like 810 or
something.

London (59:57):
Anyway, so small brain.
Really cool. Really cool. Acompany that we are in the midst
of building the brand brandidentity, but our first product
drops in July. And it's this buya t shirt. Get a mind game.
Okay, so small brain. Imaginethe website, you have our
collection of clothing, whichthis first one's called

(01:00:18):
cerebrum. Our next one is calledopen minded. REM cycles and
other one deja vu things to dowith the mind. Right? And then
we're just doing like wackydesigns. Like, you can see this.
Nice, yep. Yeah, nice. So justkind of small brains, you know,
wacky, wacky designs. But again,nobody, nobody on planet Earth

(01:00:40):
is gonna go. Wow, this is a coolnew tech talk, I saw a cool
shirt by there's just none ofthose people out there. I wanted
to make this brand competitionbased, but with crazy reward.
Right to spark somebody'sinterest the minute they see our
videos on the for you page. Soyou buy a shirt, you get what's

(01:01:01):
called a mind game. And theseare puzzles that you that come
with the shirt, first person tosolve the puzzle and submit
video in full video and photoevidence wins five to $10,000
depending on which is dependingon which brand or which puzzles
if it so the first one is a fivecare this again, this launch is

(01:01:23):
in July. It is a 500 piececompletely pink puzzle. All pink
are kind of brand logos pink.
Yeah. So not only do you get acool shirt,

Mark (01:01:37):
hopefully you've got to solve it just by the puzzle
pieces. But it's all pink. It'sjust one color. So you get the
shape of

London (01:01:45):
a jigsaw puzzle, right?
Yeah, sorry. Like a, like asquare jigsaw puzzle I'm saying
though,

Mark (01:01:49):
because there's not an image on it.

Trevor (01:01:50):
So the only thing you're looking at is like the shape
that it puts together.

London (01:01:53):
No, I don't care how you do it. First. First person to do
it, I guess. $5,000 Have youdone it? We just ordered
samples. We ordered a 25 piecesample and I mean, I like we did
it easily. But I was like, Damn

Mark (01:02:05):
5500 p 500. piece. Yeah, so

London (01:02:09):
you know,

Trevor (01:02:10):
I'm gonna buy that for my grandma. Peggy. She listens
to this. And she's gonna grandmaPeggy. Peggy is gonna first
customer. Yeah.

London (01:02:16):
So anyway, the idea that the theory behind that is you're
scrolling on Tik Tok. Hey, didyou know if you solve this 500
piece pink puzzle, you get$5,000 Go to our website. That's
a little bit more digestible tointeract with me then. Hey, my
name's London lungs, and for thelast three years, designing
merchandise to sell to you,everybody and their dog is doing

(01:02:40):
that. Yeah. So I'm reallyexcited about small brain and
the mind games.

Trevor (01:02:45):
And the reward money is probably what a normal Brad
would spend an ounce. And you'renot Yeah, exactly.

London (01:02:50):
Exactly. So that's, that's cool. That's kind of the
idea. Yeah, I mean, we're gonnatake a loss on this first one,
we haven't sold a single shirt,which is fine. I'm just putting
up the money. Right. Sohopefully you get it.
steamrolled. But even imagineeven the ads behind that. Like,
I imagine if mischief ran ads ontheir big red boots probably
would have sold more. Oh, forsure. You know, even though that
went crazy viral. But what I'msaying is, once we do start

(01:03:12):
there is an ad play right here,right? Yeah, like $10,000 bounty
to first person to solve the,you know, encoded Rubik's cube
or whatever it

Mark (01:03:19):
is, right? Yeah. That's exciting, man. I'm excited about
that. And there's so many levelsof the mind games, right? Like,
first is like Jigsaw then youcould do what you just said,
like the Rubik's Cube. Totally,then you could get into like
throwing Pete Morse code.
Environment.

London (01:03:32):
Did we want to do a Morse code? Children's Book. So
you get this, you know, achildren's book or something
illustrated and has a story, butit's all it's all Morse code and
yeah, first person to decipherit and resend us back the book
with the word you know,something like that. I mean,
again, I'm just spitballing. Butyeah, there's so many sided for

(01:03:55):
the

Mark (01:03:55):
sample via Wasco.
Eventually, yeah, first personto complete the trip.

Trevor (01:04:01):
Versus hallucination.
Yeah.

London (01:04:04):
Yeah. Yeah, guys, it's been really amazing. This

Trevor (01:04:07):
has been awesome. I love that we got that little sneak
peek and we appreciate youcoming on. And thank you so much
for your time, guys. Yeah. Any,any other questions we want to
like, end with? I feel like Iusually end with a question. But
I feel like you answered myquestions. I'd ask one more did
ask

Mark (01:04:26):
one great ones. No, I would say

Trevor (01:04:29):
that was his final one right here.

Mark (01:04:30):
Yeah, finally, is good.
What's your number one advice?

Trevor (01:04:35):
I'm liking this so far.

Mark (01:04:37):
For a brand making an ad right now what would be the one
thing you tell them for a brandmaking

London (01:04:41):
an ad? Yeah. Don't don't I don't know if this is gonna be
good. But this is something thatI always expressed the brands
that we need to be bold and weneed to we need to do something
that you feel horrible about tobe quite frank. You're now the
only one A brand's like liquiddeath pop up. I bet all the guys

(01:05:04):
in that marketing room werelike, This is the worst idea we
do this and they they breakground, they really break
ground. So be bold for example Iwe manage a supplement companies
tick tock so we were postingtheir content and making weekly
content for them. And this week,I just made memes. I just typed
literally typed in on Googlememe sounds on tick tock, you

(01:05:28):
know, there's like the AlphaSigma memes. It's like, you
know, the transitions. We justdid that. And they're so weird
and out of pocket. And whoknows, maybe that will be the
one but it's really tried to bebold.

Mark (01:05:39):
I liked that. Yeah, I liked that. I liked that a lot.
Because I think sometimes we gettoo formulaic. And the way we
approach advertising and people,especially in the AI Yes, right.
We actually, can

London (01:05:52):
I say last thought about AI. Yeah. I wrote this on my
LinkedIn. But I think I'mshadowbanned because I got
served 22 people, I wrote them,don't worry. The dude, I think
AI is gonna get so good that itwill replace jobs here and
there. But I actually think nowimagine this, you guys are
marketers with client work?
Imagine turning in your workthat was done completely by AI,

(01:06:17):
I think people will notice thedifference between a human touch
and an AI touch. And I thinkit'll get to the point where AI
is not cool. I think theprograms you could probably type
in, Hey, make a graphic withthese requirements. It'll make
it perfect every time. I don'tthink that'll be cool. I really
don't. I think people are gonnasay, oh, no, those. That agency
just uses AI. Yeah. Well, youknow what I mean?

Trevor (01:06:41):
Yeah, I think you get those. I mean, you're you're
you're seeing that with ticktock stuff. Right. Like
something formulaic thing iswhat made me think of Yeah,
being formulaic. Yeah. I mean,you like tick tock trends or
videos like for me, like thingsthat used to go like on
Instagram, I used to getmillions of views on specific
videos that I would do. And thenif I were to do that, today, I'd
get 100 views. Right, right. AndI think like, I think that just

(01:07:04):
happens with anything right?
Like I think you're spot on now.
Well, it depends on what happenswith AI and how AI develops.
Right exactly. But I thinkyou're right in the sense that
humans will start to be like,That's AI and

London (01:07:19):
like I got to tell Jay I even though it's perfect I know
you get

Trevor (01:07:23):
back there Yeah, you know and so I think more
personal touch is going todefinitely start to come into
play but there will be a time ina season where AI will be too
close amazing. Yeah, amazing.

London (01:07:33):
You use as a

Mark (01:07:34):
tool for sure. Yeah, it's obviously hard to like predict
the future but we already sawthis transition from Instagram
like Instagram influencers righthow to change their entire game
because they became a formula itwas right like are pretty is
pretty simple. Yep, here's theperfect preset the perfect
filter the Edit I'm in thisplace I'm in this place I'm

(01:07:57):
doing this thing and then ticktock is where like I'm in my
kitchen in working doingsomething silly or just like
hanging out and then that caughton and everyone loved it. Yep.
Ryan Olson Instagram influencersstart changing their tune,
right. They started doing morevideos, they wanted to get more
real they started posting morestories. Right. And it wasn't so
formulaic, like we talked about,and I think AI same thing,

(01:08:19):
right? Is what's the racebetween AI and human content
creators?

Trevor (01:08:23):
Yeah, very true. Yeah.

Mark (01:08:24):
And the race like you said, it's probably going to be
this. How do you create alwaysbe creating like a different
angle as a person that AI mightnot be doing? Or how do you make
sure that they they know, it'syou? Yeah, they know human
touched it.

London (01:08:35):
Let's just the emotion of it. Like when I get back,
like a logo work, you know, fromsmall brain, and I just can kind
of feel the energy that my guyput behind it. And I just
imagine if I got the same logo,the same identical from an AI
you knew as an AI, but I knew asan AI, I'm just like, I don't
know, I'm already turned. I'mnot turned off it. I will use

(01:08:57):
it. You know, mid journey. I gocrazy on mid journey and
obviously chat GPT. But yeah,I'm just making that little
prediction. Like, it's not goingto be cool. It really isn't.

Trevor (01:09:07):
Your developer. You're like Designer comes back. He's
like, actually, I've beenbuilding.

London (01:09:12):
Those bids are any idiot.

Trevor (01:09:14):
Gotcha. All right. Let's end there. I think that that's I
feel like we have to end everylike, I feel like the last few
episodes. We've ended with somesort of AI discussion, which is
strange for everybody. You know,so it's the rage. Yeah. Well,
thank you London so much. Wherecan where can people find you?

London (01:09:30):
Only fans? Yes.

Trevor (01:09:32):
Yep. $90 a month.

London (01:09:34):
I it's discounted, right? Yeah. Okay, sweet. It's
999. Yes. Awesome. Now, last andlast on everything. Awesome.
Everything cool.

Trevor (01:09:42):
Amazing. Kailyn and thank you so much. Go follow
London doing amazing things. I'mactually super excited. Don't

London (01:09:47):
follow me. It's

Trevor (01:09:50):
yeah. Yeah. Thank you, for everybody for being you
know, okay. We'll see you guysWhoa. Thank you so much for
listening to the unstoppableMarketer Podcast. Please go rate
and subscribe the podcastwhether it's good or bad. We
want to hear from you. Becausewe always want to make this

(01:10:12):
podcast better. If you want toget in touch with me or give me
any direct feedback, please gofollow me and get in touch with
me. I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and Tiktok thank
you and we will see you nextweek.