September 13, 2025 • 46 mins
As a wellness advocate, I've watched with growing concern as our collective mental health suffers under the weight of toxic discourse and dehumanizing language. This episode delves into this troubling connection through the lens of recent tragedies - particularly the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
What happens when we categorize people as either "oppressors" or "oppressed" with no middle ground? We create a society where some believe violence against political opponents is justified. The celebration that followed Kirk's assassination reveals something deeply disturbing about our cultural moment. Charlie, regardless of your politics, was someone who invited disagreement and championed open dialogue in university settings where many students now fear expressing unpopular opinions.
The Socratic method - asking questions, engaging with different perspectives, and being willing to occasionally stumble through difficult conversations - offers us a path forward. Rather than assuming the worst about those who disagree with us, what if we tried to understand why they hold their views? This simple shift doesn't require changing your mind, but it does result in recognising the humanity in others.
In this episode I discuss my thoughts and feelings about the death and ongoing legacy of Charlie Kirk. RIP Charlie Kirk.
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Credit for the music used in this podcast:
The Beat of Nature
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fiona Kane (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection.
I'm your host, fiona Cain.
Now, today I'm going to betalking about some sad things
and some challenging things.
I originally tried to keep anykind of politics type of
conversation or cultureconversation away from this
podcast because I thought, well,wellness and culture, they're
(00:22):
different.
But as time goes on, I'm seeingthat they're not so different
that they're very heavilyrelated to each other, because I
feel like we've got a hugeissue with our society, with
mental health, with thenarratives we're being told,
with the stories we tell eachother ourselves, the language
that we use.
There's all sorts of thingsgoing on in society at the
(00:43):
moment and they're on a culturaland political level and they
are affecting our physical andmental health.
Chicken or egg, whichever wayit's going around, I don't know.
So, more and more I see thesethings as combined and not
separate.
So today I'm going to betalking about Charlie Kirk and
I'm going to be talking a littlebit about Irina I think her
(01:05):
name was a lovely, beautifulUkrainian woman who was murdered
a few weeks ago and I'm goingto talk about the world and
language and the things that Ithink we need to talk about.
If anything else, the loss ofCharlie Kirk makes me think that
we need to talk more aboutthese things, not less about
(01:27):
these things.
So anyone who's watching thevideo excuse me, my mouse isn't
working, so I'm just using atouchscreen to do a few things,
okay, so there's a couple ofvideos I saw in this last week,
both of which I wish I never saw, and the first one was Irina I
hope I'm saying her name rightIrina Zarutska, who's a
(01:50):
23-year-old refugee from Ukrainewho was living in the United
States, and you know she camethere because she thought she
was safe and you know, look whathappened to her.
It was just dreadful.
Now, I didn't watch the fullvideo I likely stopped myself in
time, but I saw that still ofher after she had been attacked
(02:14):
and moments before she died, andthe look on her face, the look
of horror on her face.
I don't think I'll ever getthat face, that look, out of my
brain.
It was just horrendous, and oneof the people who was brave
enough to talk about it wasCharlie Kirk, and we do need to
talk about why it's acceptablefor a young woman to get on a
(02:36):
light rail or whatever it wasand be murdered in cold blood in
front of a whole bunch ofpeople and why the media didn't
want to talk about it and didn'twant to share it.
Now I'm not going to go intothe whole race thing here.
That's a really complicatedthing in the United States.
But these discussions need tobe had, why the media felt the
need to hide this and CharlieKirk was defending this and
(02:59):
defending not defending themedia by doing that, but sort of
defending the woman and sayingwhy don't we care about her and
where were her rights and howcould this happen?
And how could we have a societywhere I think for a whole
minute nobody did a thing tohelp her.
And then people did come to heraid, but it was too late.
And I understand too, becauseyou'd be terrified in that
(03:20):
situation.
But more and more, what'shappening is anyone who does
come to help someone in thatsituation they end up in prison
themselves or they try and putthem in prison and they destroy
their lives for two, three, fouryears and they have to go off
and hide somewhere becausethey've tried to be a good
citizen and do the right thing.
So like I get why that happens.
So then there's Charlie.
(03:42):
I didn't know Charlie, but Ifeel like I did.
I've been watching Charlie'suniversity talks and talks and
just his rise in life and inpolitics and in free speech and
all of those things for I don'tknow at least six years and I've
(04:03):
seen hundreds and hundreds ofhours of him and his speaking.
So I feel like I knew him, eventhough I didn't really know him
.
And when I woke up the othermorning and I kind of saw the
news and I clicked on a video,thinking, oh no, this can't be
true.
And I saw the video and then Ithought, oh my God, I saw the
closed-up video and I justthought, oh my god, I I saw the
(04:26):
close-up video and I justthought, oh, I hope this is some
sort of deep fake.
I hope this is just some stupiddeep fake.
You know, uh, because there's a, you know, there was a rumor
about, you know, trump passingaway last week.
That wasn't true, so I was hopeit's just one of those things.
And then very quickly Irealized it wasn't fake and he
passed away and he was justteaching people how to talk and
(04:49):
have conversations.
Now he obviously he was alignedwith Trump and he was a
conservative, which, you know,is fine by me, but regardless of
your politics or what you do,and don't think someone being
murdered that way for trying toencourage free speech and trying
to teach students how to haveopen dialogue, that's not okay.
(05:09):
It doesn't matter what sidesomeone's on, it's not okay.
I would not be celebrating ifsomeone on a different side of
politics to me or someone who Idisagree with died in that way.
So many were celebrating whenCharlie died and they're still
celebrating and celebrating thata father and a husband and a
good man, I mean.
(05:30):
You can just see.
You can tell by looking atCharlie.
You could tell by looking atCharlie.
He carried a light with him andhe had this big smile and even
when South Park did that parodyof him last month, I think it
was which was quite funny, hethought it was funny too and he
embraced it and he told peopleto go and watch it and he had a
(05:51):
good sense of humor and what hewas essentially doing was going
around to universities andgetting young people interested
in having conversations andgetting young people interested
in politics.
Obviously he was a conservative, so he was teaching them
conservative values, but he wasalso hearing them out and having
conversations with them.
So what he was trying to do isreally teach that sort of
(06:12):
Socratic method of conversationwhere you do ask questions.
So why do you think that?
What does that mean?
Why do you think that is true?
Or have you thought about itthis way?
That's what he was doing andthat's what we need more and
more of.
And in the last sort ofespecially, I suppose over the
last 10 years, I've seen, bit bybit by bit, free speech
(06:35):
becoming more and more a thingof the past, right?
You know, graham Linehan wasarrested when he arrived at
Heathrow Airport for some tweets, some mean tweets.
There's a woman in prison inthe UK, actually many people in
prison in the UK for mean thingsthey've said, and there's many
(06:55):
people over there who aren'tgoing to prison for terrible,
terrible things they're doing.
In fact, they let out a bunchof violent criminals so that
they could put in people whosaid hurty things into prison.
That's what's going on in theUK at the moment.
You know, why aren't we talkingabout that?
Like what the hell?
The problem is that we werelucky enough in places like
(07:17):
Australia and the US and the UK.
We've been lucky enough to growup with a minimal amount of you
know in my generation, right,my generation and maybe the one
before me many of us grew upwithout being touched by war not
saying everyone, but in general.
You know world war one andworld war two a long time ago,
(07:38):
and the other wars didn't affectwhole, whole countries and and
whole world like the other onesdid, right?
So us in the West, many of us,have had great comfort due to
the fact that people riskedtheir lives, people lost their
lives so that we could havefreedom.
And now we have freedom, or toa certain degree we have freedom
(08:01):
, and we don't value it.
In fact, we're taking it awaybit by bit, by bit by bit, and
many of us, many people, arecheering it on and are happy for
it, and that's just really,really, really frightening to me
.
And what's happened isuniversities, once upon a time
(08:21):
look, there's always been.
Of course, universities havealways been kind of lefty
training camps.
Of course they are, being young, used to be all about, you know
, being a socialist and thinkingthat you know you're going to
save the world and all this sortof stuff.
And then you grow older and yougrow up and you realize that
that's a whole lot of BS.
However, that's what it used tobe, but as things have changed,
(08:44):
so once upon a time, like whenI was younger, I would have
classed myself as being on theleft, and to me that meant
things like you know equalrights and you know equal rights
for you know, like gay people,being treated well and being
treated.
You know no different toanybody else, right?
And?
(09:04):
And it doesn't matter whatcolor you are, what different to
anybody else, right?
And it doesn't matter whatcolour you are, what skin colour
, where you're from, whatever,Again, everyone gets treated
equally.
You know sort of you know noracism or sexism or those kinds
of things, right?
So it's like what we wanted wasjust a fair and equal society,
and I think in the West we got along way there.
(09:25):
We got very close to it, asprobably as close as you can, by
having these kind of so-calledmulticultural sort of societies
you're always going to have.
There's always going to bestuff around the edges, there's
always going to be issues,because it's human beings and
human beings are human beings,right?
So it's never going to beperfect, but I think we did
pretty well overall.
However, then all of the peopleactivists had nothing to do and
(09:51):
all of these nasty types hadnothing to do and so they had to
create new things to fightabout.
So that is exactly what theydid.
So there's this kind of newversion of Marxism that's come
through there's just differentvariations that go through, and
this one's based on all thecritical theories the critical
(10:12):
race theory and gender theoryand things like that, and
essentially I don't need to gointo detail about it.
But what it comes down to is itcomes down to the oppression
Olympics and it comes down towhether or not you're oppressed
or whether or not you're anoppressor.
And essentially what they'vedone is they've sort of divided
all the lines and just workedout who exactly is oppressed and
(10:34):
who exactly is an oppressor.
If someone's oppressed, we feelsorry for them, we have empathy
for them, we care about themand they can do no wrong and we
worship them.
If someone is classed as anoppressor, they are evil and bad
and terrible, and it doesn'treally matter what you do to
them, because they're oppressors.
(10:55):
So they're terrible, evil andbad.
So that's pretty much what hashappened in the world as far as
this Marxist theory that hasmajorly infected a whole lot of
people in the Western world.
So they get given instructionsof who the oppressed are and who
the oppressors are, and they gooff and march and they just do
(11:18):
as they're told.
And, of course, these oppressedOlympics.
They don't really make sensebecause none of it makes sense,
right?
That's the thing.
None of it makes sense, whichis why, instead of actually
engaging a dialogue on the topic, engaging a dialogue on the
issue, that all they do is callyou names.
(11:38):
So if you're someone likeJacinta Nampat-Jemper-Price, who
in Australia talked about somethings in regards to immigration
she's a lovely woman who's notracist.
She might have sort of saidthings slightly not well, but
straight away racist, racist,racist she gets called, but
(12:01):
she's also half AustralianAboriginal and normally that
would put you in the class ofbeing the oppressed, but she's
half white.
So then she's the oppressor,but also she's the oppressor
because she's a conservative.
So if you're a conservative,you're automatically bad, you're
an oppressor.
So that's kind of the way therules work.
It's kind of weird, but anyway,they can't engage on the topic.
(12:24):
So what they do is theycharacter assassinate and they
and not just characterassassinate, assassinate.
Look, I don't know exactly thisyoung man who has been arrested
for killing Charlie.
I don't know the details.
The only bits I've heard isthat he sounds like he's been
radicalized into this Marxismthat I've been talking about
(12:46):
from what I hear, even if hehasn't even that's not what this
he's about.
Obviously he hates Charlie.
It's something to do withpolitics, but regardless, it's
just.
It's just an evil that thissort of thing is going on in the
world and people think thatthis is the answer to.
I don't like what that personsays, so I think I should kill
them.
So what's happening with thisoppressor-oppressed Olympics
(13:11):
that we have in our world at themoment is?
It's quite weird, because thepeople who I used to align
myself with, the people who Iused to agree with, they're all
about empathy.
They talk about empathy all thetime and how.
You know people on the rightpeople, conservatives, are not
empathetic enough, notempathetic at all, but they're
so empathetic and they talkabout how people on the right
(13:36):
and look and, by the way, theright is anything right of
Stalin?
Like, honestly, you're farright if you're right of Stalin
or Mao.
So I mean right just means thatyou're not completely crazy far
left.
Now, that's silly.
There's a whole bunch of peoplein the middle, by the way, but
they've just been.
It's just.
(13:56):
The major voices are thesepeople on the extremes and they
have decided that.
You decided that if you justdehumanize anyone who's a
conservative, say that they haveno empathy because they are the
purveyors of empathy.
They know all about empathy.
Apparently, conservatives donot and are evil and bad and
(14:19):
don't have empathy.
And they show their empathy sowell because they are laugh and
make fun when someone ismurdered and don't care about
his wife and children and allthe people who loved him and
what a difference he made in theworld.
And this isn't just the onlyexample.
The same thing happened on themultiple attempts on the life of
(14:43):
the president and many, manyother times over.
You see it over and over again.
Whenever someone who isconservative passes away, for
whatever reason, however ithappens, they delight in it.
So it's kind of interestingbecause it's like the people who
talk about bullying and empathythe most are the least
(15:08):
empathetic people I've ever seenand the biggest bullies I have
ever seen.
Now, dehumanizing language it'sanother one that gets talked
about a lot on the left, and Iused to, you know.
I remember Brene Brown talkingabout this when I used to really
enjoy listening to her andreading her things, and she
talked all about dehumanizingand how we shouldn't do that,
(15:31):
and she's absolutely right weshouldn't, and that's what used
to happen back in the day, andthat's kind of how something
like slavery happens wedehumanize people and we make
them our slaves.
Now I'm not going to go into along whole history about slavery
, but essentially, it happenedall around the world, to all
people.
I mean.
The word slave comes from Slav,so it was actually white people
(15:53):
from the Slavic countries who,I think, were the first slaves,
and it's hideous and it'sterrible and it should have
never happened and it shouldn'tbe happening now it still is.
One thing I will say, though,is that Britain were the first
people to abolish it.
The UK and the US fought toabolish slavery, but no one
(16:16):
gives them any credit for that.
It's only all the things theydid wrong.
No one looks at what they didright, and that's what's
happening with these youngpeople, is they're being brought
up to believe that everythingthat happened to do with any
Western country is evil and badand wrong.
And while Western countrieshave done evil, bad and wrong
things, they've done a lot ofright things as well, and
(16:37):
they've tried to fix thosethings.
They've tried to correct thosethings, and you know there's no
perfect country or system.
But why do you think all thepeople in the world who are
fleeing their countries andlooking for somewhere better to
go to, why do you think they'relanding in parts of Europe and
the UK and the US and Australia?
(16:57):
Why do you think they're cominghere?
Are they coming here becauseit's so awful and we've got it
so wrong?
Or are they coming here becausewe've got a lot of things right
?
We've got a lot of things rightand we've got some things wrong
as well, and we do absolutelyneed to own our history and we
do need to do better.
However, all we do is obsessabout how evil and bad we all
are, so you bring up wholegenerations of people.
(17:20):
Instead of being proud of theircountry though you know, I knew
people who went and enlistedwhen they were 16 to go and
fight in World War II right,instead of being proud and
wanting to go and fight for ourfreedoms and our country, people
are being brought up to beashamed.
They're being taught to becompletely ashamed and shameful
about who we all are and ourhistory.
(17:40):
And why do you think that theseyoung people are so confused
and get so angry Because theyare brought up with no sense of
purpose and then their onlysense of purpose is to fight
against these horribleoppressors, and so that's what
they're doing.
So they actually, you know, Ihaven't heard his reasoning, but
(18:01):
I could almost guarantee youthat when we hear, if we hear,
the so-called reasoning, theso-called justification for
assassinating Charlie Kirk, hewill think that he's a freedom
fighter and he will think thathe saved the world from a
dictator.
(18:21):
That's what he will believe.
And why does he believe that?
Why would he believe that?
Well, he would believe thatbecause that's what he is told.
Because, if you look at themajority of the media and many
people on the left I'm notsaying all people, but many
people, especially politicians,and especially in the US, for
(18:45):
the last 10 years, they haveconsistently been, consistently
been consistently calling trumpevery name under the under the
sun, but usually words that areassociated with hitler right.
So all of the words, you know,fascist and nazi and those sorts
of words, and dictator, all ofthat language.
(19:06):
Now, more and more and more,hysterically, day after day
after day, these people,including Obama, were talking
about dictator and hysterical,you know, hysterical.
We'll never have a country back, we'll never be able to vote
again.
Blah, blah, blah.
All of this hysterical language, I don't know.
Did anyone see at whose?
Whose funeral was it?
Was it Jimmy Carter's funeral?
(19:26):
Someone, a president whorecently passed away?
Did you see Obama sitting nextto Trump there and having a good
old laugh?
Did you see that?
One minute he's saying he's thedevil and he's about to destroy
our country?
The next minute he's having alaugh with the guy because he
doesn't believe what he said.
(19:46):
But for the last 10 years, thatlanguage has been spread around
.
I hear the same thing being saidabout Charlie how he hated gay
people.
No, he did not.
He was good friends with manygay people.
Or how he hated trans people.
No, he did not.
He just tried to tell them thatthey were beautiful and their
bodies that they were born inand they didn't need to destroy
(20:06):
themselves or take medicationsor have surgeries to be okay.
But what we're hearing is thathe was hateful and he was this
and he was that and all thesehorrific things about him that
are simply not true.
But even if you didn't likeCharlie, you didn't like his
politics, you didn't agree withhim.
It's okay to not agree withsomeone.
(20:29):
That is fine and actually hewas really open to that.
That's why at all of hiscollege tours, the first thing
he said was the people whodisagree with me come to the
front of the line.
So he actually let them infirst and let them up front,
because he didn't want to justtalk to people who said, oh, I
love you, charlie, I'm a big fan.
He wanted to talk to people whodisagreed because he wanted to
(20:51):
have those conversations,because he wanted to show it's
important to have thoseconversations.
And what he did is he opened upthe universities, because for so
many years now and this isstill happening today I don't
know this is happening inAustralia and in the UK and in
the US, I don't know where elseit's happening, but I know
students who are not saying whatthey want to say in their
(21:11):
assignments and in theirclassroom classes at university
because if they say anything butthe leftist agenda, you know
things I've been talking about.
If I say anything about that,they get marked down and
sometimes they get kicked out oftheir course.
(21:32):
Sometimes they get barred fromthings, banned from things and
all sorts of have to go totribunals and have to defend
themselves and the rest of itright.
So many people now are just notbeing honest and not being open
about what they believe or whothey are.
Now, charlie made it okay forpeople to be conservative if
they wanted to be, but he alsomade it okay to not and to come
(21:53):
up and talk about it and to comeup and have conversations.
For our world to succeed, forour freedom, for our free world
to succeed the one that what wecreated in the West that works
so well we have to be able tohave conversations and that
means we have to be able tomaybe get the words slightly
wrong without being completelycancelled and canned.
And oh, you're a this, you're aist, this sort of you know,
(22:15):
you're a transphobe or you're ahomophobe, or you're a racist or
this or that.
Now, if someone's activelyreally going out of their way to
say really nasty things andscreeching about different
racism, whatever, that's onething.
But if someone's saying, look,we're having problems with
immigration, let's talk about it.
Let's talk about what works andwhat doesn't, there's nothing
wrong with that.
It's important to have theconversation right.
(22:36):
If someone's saying, look, I'mreally happy for my friends who
are gay, but I'm really worriedabout the theories behind the
queer theory and the theoriesthat are teaching people that
they're not okay in their bodyand they need to change it
because they're somehow trans.
That's not being phobic orhateful, that's actually just
(22:56):
saying I'm really worried aboutthis situation and, hey, let's
have a conversation about it.
We need to talk about this as asociety.
But what's happened now withthis, uh, with this marxist
agenda, this oppressor,oppressed agenda?
Because they can't defend thosethings, because who can defend
that right?
No one can defend those things.
So what they do is they justscream fascist or whatever other
(23:19):
language, and that's how theydo it and they silence.
They silence people, which isexactly what they did to Charlie
the other day.
They silenced him.
Well, I think they've silencedhim and they may have, but they
haven't.
Because what I do know is that,even though all of the typical
nasty people had, hey, you getto know who people are and
(23:42):
what's in their souls when yousee how they respond to how
people have died.
You don't have to mourn forsomeone you don't know or you
don't like.
You don't really have to caremuch if you don't know or don't
like someone.
It's one thing to kind of notcare or not be interested.
It's a whole other level todelight in it.
Delighting in it, it's justrevolting, the vileness I'm
(24:06):
seeing.
Or I'm seeing some people say,oh look, we shouldn't do
violence, we shouldn't dopolitical violence, which of
course we shouldn't which Iagree with, of course.
No matter what side it's on, weshouldn't do political violence
.
Oh, he was a really nasty,terrible person and he was all
these names and blah, blah, blahand his terrible rhetoric and
blah, blah, blah, blah, but weshouldn't do political violence.
(24:26):
So you basically say weshouldn't do political violence,
but he's really nasty and well,you know, and you've got all
these young people thinking thatit's Hitler again.
Right, that we've got to.
All these fascists are out thereand we've got to defend our
country, and the only peoplebehaving like fascists are the
people on the far left who arecreating impelled speech.
(24:47):
You have to speak this way, youhave to say this thing, you
have to believe this thing.
You're not allowed to have freespeech.
You're going to get put inprison if you say something mean
on X.
That's fascism.
Right, shutting down speech,killing a man for his speech,
that's fascism.
(25:07):
Being open and having opendialogues and encouraging
discussion is not fascism.
If you're a bit confused aboutwhat fascism is.
It's not having open dialogues,it's not having, you know,
going and speaking to the mediaevery day and telling them what
you're doing and why you'redoing.
That's not fascism.
That's not what Hitler wasdoing.
If you're a bit confused aboutwhat fascism is, maybe you need
(25:30):
to look into that Again.
You don't have to agree withpeople's politics, but just
don't get talked into thisridiculous language, this
dehumanizing language that we'reusing, because this
dehumanizing language is gettingpeople killed but it's also
destroying our young people,because young people, many young
people, now think that wordsare violence.
(25:51):
Silence is violence, butviolence is not violence,
because if you do violence tothe oppressor in the name of the
oppressed, then you're afreedom fighter.
Yeah, what the actual like?
What?
I don't want to say those words, so I won't say them.
(26:16):
But that is the sort of stuffthat people believe now.
They believe that hurty wordsif they hear a word they don't
like like.
Speech they don't like is hatespeech.
No, hate speech is when someonesays, yeah, we need to go and
kill that.
You know those people, or thatrace, or those people with that
(26:37):
sexuality, whatever.
Of course that's terrible, butI don't believe in queer theory
isn't hate speech.
That's just someone saying theydon't believe in something.
Or I don't understand whychildren should be mutilated and
put on medications, and put onmedications that are going to
damage them when they find howthey are.
(26:59):
That's not hate speech, right?
So we do need to understandthat.
For us to succeed as freesocieties, we need to be able to
have difficult conversations,we need to be able to hear
things we don't like hearing,and we need to be able to have
difficult conversations.
We need to be able to hearthings we don't like hearing and
we need to be able to be okaywith sounding silly.
(27:20):
And it shouldn't be a risk thatyou're going to lose your job
or you're going to be destroyedor someone is going to kill you
because you have a differentopinion or because you said
something the slightly wrong way, you didn't mean it that way,
but now everyone's going to cutthe clip and do all the things
to it and send it around and doxyou and tell people to come and
(27:42):
get you.
That shouldn't be in ourWestern society, where we say we
have freedom and we say we'reso happy with what we've
achieved in that front.
We're letting it all go.
Uh, douglas murray wrote aboutthis in uh in his books and so,
and gad sad has also beentalking about it, jordan
(28:03):
peterson has also been talkingabout it.
And they're so right that we'rejust letting all of our
freedoms go and, uh, we'rejoining in this just
dehumanizing of each other.
And you know, when I was younger, and even now in my experience,
the good thing about people whoare classed as conservative and
(28:25):
I think I'd put myself in thatcamp now, people who class
themselves as conservative, theyargue a lot as well about
things, which is a good thing,which is a really good thing
Because it means it's not adictatorship.
There's not one person who saysthis is what we think.
We actually say, well, no,actually I see it this way, I
see it that way, no, I have thisopinion and we discuss it, and
(28:46):
that's really really healthy.
And when I used to.
Well, what I do believe for themost part is people who have a
different opinion to me andpeople who have different
politics to me.
Now, at the worst, you mightthink that they, that's that
person's stupid or silly, butyou just think that for the most
(29:08):
part, they're a good person ora reasonable, you know a a good
enough person, a nice enoughperson with what you think is a
bad opinion, right.
But the other way around itdoesn't work that way at all,
because the other way around itis if that person is a
conservative, then they're anevil bad person.
(29:28):
So they're not just a goodperson who might be misguided or
who you might disagree with oryou might think is stupid or
whatever, misled, whatever no,evil bad person.
And as long as we paint eachother that way, it's not going
to help.
And the problem is, the morethese sorts of things happen
that was happening to Charliethe more conservative people are
(29:49):
going to start painting peopleon the other side as evil and
bad.
And I'm seeing more and more ofthat.
And, like I said once, you seethe way people have responded to
when someone is murdered, youget to see who people really are
and what sort of soul they have.
And it's actually been.
Yeah, it's been interesting towatch and sad to watch and sad
(30:12):
to see.
We need to stop dehumanizingeach other and know that for the
most part, there might be I'mnot saying there's no such thing
as evil people or people withbad intentions, and there are
extremes on both sides ofpolitics.
That is absolutely true.
However, for the most part,most people are just real people
(30:34):
with real concerns and realworries about the world, and
maybe they just have differentideas of what they think the
solution might be or what theythink the answer is, or who they
think the answer is or who theybelieve they should vote for.
If we are prepared to talk toeach other and learn, like, why
do you think that and what makesyou think that and why do you
(30:56):
believe that?
And um, and have you thoughtabout it this way, if we're
prepared to do that, we canmaybe save this thing, this
freedom thing, this westernworld that we've you know that
so many people fought and diedfor.
But if we just continue todehumanize each other and to
(31:17):
believe that only one side hasempathy and only one side is a
good person and everyone on theother side is wrong or bad, no
matter what side you're on, ifyou think you're on a side and
look, many people aren't even onsides.
Most people, to be honest, mostpeople are somewhere in the
middle.
They're just somewhere in themiddle and they just want to
have a good life and have afamily and our career, or live
(31:40):
their life, and you know that'sall that most people want.
They don't really want to haveto get involved in all of these
sort of carry on, but you know,here we are, here we are, and I
think the truth is that CharlieKirk will live on through many
of us, including me andincluding all the young people
(32:01):
he's inspired, and I think thatthis will encourage people to
speak out more, even thoughthey'll be frightened that
political terrorism is terrorism, assassination is terrorism and
terrorism is designed tosilence people.
So I don't think this shouldsilence people and I don't think
(32:22):
Charlie would want that.
He would want people to speakup and he would want people to
amplify his voice and amplifytheir voice and continue having
conversations.
It is so important we need tohave open dialogue.
If you think about how we havesolved anything, whether it have
been political, whether it'sbeen a scientific or whatever it
is how do you solve it?
You solve it by talking aboutit, because we have to
(32:46):
understand, as human beings,part of how we think, part of
the ability to think and tothink through stuff and to work
through stuff, part of how we dothat is by talking or writing
right.
So you write something, youtalk something, you say
something, you say, okay, Ibelieve this.
And then sometimes, as you sayit, you hear yourself and you
(33:08):
say, oh, that sounds a bit weird.
No, what I meant was that.
Or someone says to you have youthought about this, this, or I
agree with that part of it, butmaybe you're a bit wrong there.
But you get better ideas, youget, you come up with solutions
because you're allowed to get itwrong, you're allowed to
stumble a bit, you're allowed tosort of your words aren't
absolutely perfect and you mighthave said a thing that sounded
(33:29):
bad but you didn't mean it to bewhatever.
We need to be allowed tostumble a bit and fall a bit and
have difficult conversationsand have hard conversations and
be awkward.
That's far more important thatwe do that and we get to
actually see each other as humanbeings again, rather than
hating on each other.
One thing I would suggest to youif there's someone that you
(33:51):
disagree with strongly onsomething and if there's someone
close to you or someone thatyou want to continue a close
relationship with, I wouldsuggest you do this thing and
actually, if you check out PeterBoghossian, he does this thing
called street epistemology.
I think, is how you pronounceit.
He shows examples of it onthere, but essentially what he
does is say you've got twopeople with differing opinions
(34:12):
on I don't know whether it's onwell, what are all the big
topics, whether it be on youknow, abortion, or whether it be
on Israel, all the differentthings, right.
So.
But what you do is you getsomeone to say all right, I
believe I strongly agree withlike, so you have a statement,
so the statement can be you know, abortion is good, abortion is
bad.
Like.
So you have a statement, so thestatement can be you know,
(34:34):
abortion is good, abortion isbad.
Like whatever.
Whatever the statement is, youchoose your statement and then
you say not, oh yes, I agreewith that, or I disagree with
that, oh, okay, fine.
But then what you do is youguess why the other person
thinks the way they do and itmakes you put your this is, it
makes you put your mind likethink, try and think how they
think.
So you sort of think okay, well, I think the reason that you
(34:56):
might support Israel, or thatyou might support Palestinians,
or whatever, whatever, whatever,I think the reason you think
that is because.
And then the person will say toyou no, you're wrong, no,
you're right, or whatever, or no, it's because of this, right?
But essentially, what you'retrying to do is, rather than go,
oh, you think that that meansyou're evil and bad or you're
(35:16):
stupid or whatever it's like.
Okay, you think that you mustthink it for a reason, because
you seem like a genuinely goodperson.
So let's explore why you thinkthat.
Now, the point of it isn't tochange each other's minds.
You don't have to change eachother's minds.
It's okay to walk away andstill have the same opinion, but
it's to understand, oh, okay,my friend who is on the left, or
my friend who is on the right,or whatever the thing is, the
(35:39):
reason they think that is this,and now I might think they're
misguided, but at least I knowwhy they think that.
I understand why they thinkthat, and then you at least know
that that's a human being withan opinion that you agree or
disagree with, right.
However, if you don't ask thatquestion or if you don't have
that conversation, it's likethinking that they're you know
(36:01):
it's hateful stuff, right?
So when we do this, when we havethis conversation, and we try
and put ourselves into the shoesof why do I think that person
thinks that way.
It's really really healthy totry and think why does that
person think that way?
And it also allows you to havea conversation.
Because when you know whatsomeone really thinks rather
than what you know, oh well,they watch the ABC, so they must
be, you know, think this way.
(36:22):
Or they watch Fox, so they mustthink that way.
They're just, they've just beenyou know, they've just been
brainwashed or whatever.
And instead of just assumingthat straight up, it's actually
giving the person the benefit ofthe doubt that they might be an
intelligent person and they'rea thoughtful person and they've
got reasons for believing thething.
And that helps you learn.
(36:45):
And look, sometimes havingthese conversations it might
make you change your mind ormight make you soften your
stance or might make you moresure of your stance.
That's fine as well, but at all.
But what it does do is allowsyou to know that the other
person's a human being.
And I think that if we want tocarry on the good, the good
(37:05):
things that you know charlie's,the goodness he brought into the
world, let's learn to haveconversations to the Socratic
method.
Let's learn to give people thebenefit of the doubt and have
conversations about why theythink the thing they do and,
rather than assuming all sortsof negative things about why
they think that, ask them.
Have the conversation, beprepared to have difficult
(37:27):
conversations and, as much asyou might be tempted to, don't
name call people, right, youknow, and the reason that people
name call people now is becausethey don't have an argument,
they don't have a justificationfor the ridiculous stuff they're
talking about.
So the next best thing iscalling someone a racist or
(37:47):
whatever, fascist.
So anyway, I think I'll leaveit there, because I've gone on
for long enough.
Like I said before, I didn'treally want to bring politics
into my wellness channel.
However, I think there's agreat unwellness in our world at
the moment.
I think there is a mind virusthat's gone through a lot of
(38:09):
people and they're just they'vegone right off the deep end and
supporting terrorism, violence,supporting political murders and
, you know, supporting transingthe kids and not letting them
(38:32):
grow up and go through puberty,which is the cure in most cases
for that, their situation, notprotecting children, those sorts
of things.
I think and and that wholevictim olympics thing I was
(38:53):
talking about, which I've talkedabout before as well that now
what we do is, we lionize thevictims and we shame people who
are so-called successful, andthat is for those of you who
don't know, the oppressoroppressed thing.
Essentially, if you'resuccessful as a race or as a
religion or as a country or evenas a person.
(39:16):
Sometimes, if you're successful,the only reason you could
possibly be successful isbecause you've oppressed
somebody and you stole it offthem, so you're an oppressor.
If you're unsuccessful, theonly reason that could possibly
be is because someone took itoff you and someone oppressed
you.
So it's very it's kind of likeI don't know, it's not even the
(39:39):
university.
It's such a naive way oflooking at things that if anyone
who's successful is bad, anyonewho's unsuccessful has clearly
been oppressed and someone didthat to them Very simplistic way
of looking at things that maybeyou think when you're at school
.
But this is actually whatpeople adults are sprouting and
(40:01):
talking about now, which isridiculous, and I think that
what it does is it forces us toput people in all sorts of
categories again and splitpeople up rather than bring
people together.
So I don't think it's healthyand I think that it's encouraged
a lot of people to really bementally ill, look for mental
(40:25):
illness and stay in their mentalillness because you're a good
person if you're oppressed.
You're a bad person if you'renot oppressed.
Right, so you need to beoppressed, so you need to really
, really relish in yourvictimhood to be a good person
in our society now, according tothese new rules.
(40:48):
And that's not encouraginghealing, that's not encouraging
healing for individuals and it'salso not encouraging agency for
anyone Right now.
I've had conversations aboutthis before, I won't go into it
you know in detail here.
But essentially, if you tellpeople something bad happened to
you, but let's help you and youcan work your way through it
and out of it and have asuccessful life, that's you know
(41:11):
.
That's a great outcome forpeople.
But we're not doing that.
We're saying that you've beenoppressed and you deserve
damages for that and you shouldsit around for the rest of your
life and complain about howoppressed you are and how
mentally ill you are and howterrible things are and just
wallow in that and not achieveanything in your life.
(41:32):
That doesn't help anybody.
So we take away people's agencywhen we label them as oppressed
.
You're a part of the oppressedclass.
You're part of the victimhoodclass.
You can just stay in thatforever.
That doesn't help people.
It doesn't help anyone.
So the oppressor-oppressedpolitical theory is really
(41:55):
damaging to people's health andto people's mental health, and
it's really damaging tocommunities because it takes
away people's agency.
You take away people's agency.
They can't go out and do thingsthey want in their life and
they're being told well, thereason you can't is because all
these evil people are holdingyou down and you wonder why
there's kids committing violenceor there's people on trains
(42:15):
thinking that this beautifulUkrainian woman is their enemy
and they need to kill herbecause she's probably the
oppressor right?
It's just so sick, so sick.
So I'm going to end in justsaying RIP Charlie, and I'm
thinking of, like, the familiesof all the people who've been,
(42:36):
all of the people who areexperiencing violence in the
world now, but in particular I'mthinking of Irene's family and
Charlie's family and I thoughtthat he was a beautiful man who
brought a lot of light to theworld and who was enthusiastic
and excited about the world andachieved so much in his short
(42:57):
years I think he was 31.
He achieved so much in thattime and I'm glad he lived and
I'm glad he achieved what heachieved and I'm glad he's left
his mark and I hope that we canturn that into that, gets turned
into a beautiful legacy and Ibelieve it will be and so I'm
glad for that, I'm grateful forthat.
(43:18):
But so, so, very sad, so so,very sad, and this feels like
another one of those moments inmy lifetime where there's a
before and after, and that shifthappened this week, and let's
just work towards the afterbeing something good.
(43:40):
Let's use this to teach eachother about having important
conversations, realconversations about things that
matter.
That's what I say this podcastis about.
Let's learn how to do that.
Let's learn how to have thesedifficult conversations so this
political violence and justviolence in general doesn't
continue.
(44:00):
Anyway, I'll leave it at thatand please like, subscribe and
share.
Look, and I'm happy for you tohave a different opinion to me,
all I, all I say is that I onlyengage with people who want to
discuss the topic, who want todiscuss the topic, who want to
discuss the situations, who wantto discuss.
If you stay on topic, I'm happyto talk to you.
But people who want to justabuse and character, assassinate
(44:23):
people not interested in havingthose conversations, that
they're not productive, theydon't help anyone which is the
whole point of this episode wassaying that that's not
productive.
So, please, if you did enjoythis episode or enjoy is
probably the wrong word but ifyou thought it was interesting
or thought provoking and youwanted to start a conversation
with someone else, you know,please share it with them and
let's start a conversation.
(44:45):
I'm not pretending I'm rightabout everything.
I'm just like I said.
We just have to haveconversations and be prepared to
sometimes be wrong andsometimes be right and muddle
our way through the humanexperience and what that means.
But we won't do that, we won'tbe successful at that, unless
we're prepared to haveconversations and unless we're
prepared to look at the otherperson and believe that they're
(45:08):
human too, and know that they'rea human too, even if their
opinions seem pretty crazy toyou.
Okay, uh, yeah, like, subscribe, share, comment, all those
things.
Uh, please, you know, make aneffort to share this episode for
me.
So more people.
I just really want people tohave conversations.
Anyway, I'll leave it at thatand I will talk to you again
(45:29):
next time.
Thank you, bye.
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection.
I'm your host, fiona Cain.
Now, today I'm going to betalking about some sad things
and some challenging things.
I originally tried to keep anykind of politics type of
conversation or cultureconversation away from this
podcast because I thought, well,wellness and culture, they're
(00:22):
different.
But as time goes on, I'm seeingthat they're not so different
that they're very heavilyrelated to each other, because I
feel like we've got a hugeissue with our society, with
mental health, with thenarratives we're being told,
with the stories we tell eachother ourselves, the language
that we use.
There's all sorts of thingsgoing on in society at the
(00:43):
moment and they're on a culturaland political level and they
are affecting our physical andmental health.
Chicken or egg, whichever wayit's going around, I don't know.
So, more and more I see thesethings as combined and not
separate.
So today I'm going to betalking about Charlie Kirk and
I'm going to be talking a littlebit about Irina I think her
(01:05):
name was a lovely, beautifulUkrainian woman who was murdered
a few weeks ago and I'm goingto talk about the world and
language and the things that Ithink we need to talk about.
If anything else, the loss ofCharlie Kirk makes me think that
we need to talk more aboutthese things, not less about
(01:27):
these things.
So anyone who's watching thevideo excuse me, my mouse isn't
working, so I'm just using atouchscreen to do a few things,
okay, so there's a couple ofvideos I saw in this last week,
both of which I wish I never saw, and the first one was Irina I
hope I'm saying her name rightIrina Zarutska, who's a
(01:50):
23-year-old refugee from Ukrainewho was living in the United
States, and you know she camethere because she thought she
was safe and you know, look whathappened to her.
It was just dreadful.
Now, I didn't watch the fullvideo I likely stopped myself in
time, but I saw that still ofher after she had been attacked
(02:14):
and moments before she died, andthe look on her face, the look
of horror on her face.
I don't think I'll ever getthat face, that look, out of my
brain.
It was just horrendous, and oneof the people who was brave
enough to talk about it wasCharlie Kirk, and we do need to
talk about why it's acceptablefor a young woman to get on a
(02:36):
light rail or whatever it wasand be murdered in cold blood in
front of a whole bunch ofpeople and why the media didn't
want to talk about it and didn'twant to share it.
Now I'm not going to go intothe whole race thing here.
That's a really complicatedthing in the United States.
But these discussions need tobe had, why the media felt the
need to hide this and CharlieKirk was defending this and
(02:59):
defending not defending themedia by doing that, but sort of
defending the woman and sayingwhy don't we care about her and
where were her rights and howcould this happen?
And how could we have a societywhere I think for a whole
minute nobody did a thing tohelp her.
And then people did come to heraid, but it was too late.
And I understand too, becauseyou'd be terrified in that
(03:20):
situation.
But more and more, what'shappening is anyone who does
come to help someone in thatsituation they end up in prison
themselves or they try and putthem in prison and they destroy
their lives for two, three, fouryears and they have to go off
and hide somewhere becausethey've tried to be a good
citizen and do the right thing.
So like I get why that happens.
So then there's Charlie.
(03:42):
I didn't know Charlie, but Ifeel like I did.
I've been watching Charlie'suniversity talks and talks and
just his rise in life and inpolitics and in free speech and
all of those things for I don'tknow at least six years and I've
(04:03):
seen hundreds and hundreds ofhours of him and his speaking.
So I feel like I knew him, eventhough I didn't really know him
.
And when I woke up the othermorning and I kind of saw the
news and I clicked on a video,thinking, oh no, this can't be
true.
And I saw the video and then Ithought, oh my God, I saw the
closed-up video and I justthought, oh my god, I I saw the
(04:26):
close-up video and I justthought, oh, I hope this is some
sort of deep fake.
I hope this is just some stupiddeep fake.
You know, uh, because there's a, you know, there was a rumor
about, you know, trump passingaway last week.
That wasn't true, so I was hopeit's just one of those things.
And then very quickly Irealized it wasn't fake and he
passed away and he was justteaching people how to talk and
(04:49):
have conversations.
Now he obviously he was alignedwith Trump and he was a
conservative, which, you know,is fine by me, but regardless of
your politics or what you do,and don't think someone being
murdered that way for trying toencourage free speech and trying
to teach students how to haveopen dialogue, that's not okay.
(05:09):
It doesn't matter what sidesomeone's on, it's not okay.
I would not be celebrating ifsomeone on a different side of
politics to me or someone who Idisagree with died in that way.
So many were celebrating whenCharlie died and they're still
celebrating and celebrating thata father and a husband and a
good man, I mean.
(05:30):
You can just see.
You can tell by looking atCharlie.
You could tell by looking atCharlie.
He carried a light with him andhe had this big smile and even
when South Park did that parodyof him last month, I think it
was which was quite funny, hethought it was funny too and he
embraced it and he told peopleto go and watch it and he had a
(05:51):
good sense of humor and what hewas essentially doing was going
around to universities andgetting young people interested
in having conversations andgetting young people interested
in politics.
Obviously he was a conservative, so he was teaching them
conservative values, but he wasalso hearing them out and having
conversations with them.
So what he was trying to do isreally teach that sort of
(06:12):
Socratic method of conversationwhere you do ask questions.
So why do you think that?
What does that mean?
Why do you think that is true?
Or have you thought about itthis way?
That's what he was doing andthat's what we need more and
more of.
And in the last sort ofespecially, I suppose over the
last 10 years, I've seen, bit bybit by bit, free speech
(06:35):
becoming more and more a thingof the past, right?
You know, graham Linehan wasarrested when he arrived at
Heathrow Airport for some tweets, some mean tweets.
There's a woman in prison inthe UK, actually many people in
prison in the UK for mean thingsthey've said, and there's many
(06:55):
people over there who aren'tgoing to prison for terrible,
terrible things they're doing.
In fact, they let out a bunchof violent criminals so that
they could put in people whosaid hurty things into prison.
That's what's going on in theUK at the moment.
You know, why aren't we talkingabout that?
Like what the hell?
The problem is that we werelucky enough in places like
(07:17):
Australia and the US and the UK.
We've been lucky enough to growup with a minimal amount of you
know in my generation, right,my generation and maybe the one
before me many of us grew upwithout being touched by war not
saying everyone, but in general.
You know world war one andworld war two a long time ago,
(07:38):
and the other wars didn't affectwhole, whole countries and and
whole world like the other onesdid, right?
So us in the West, many of us,have had great comfort due to
the fact that people riskedtheir lives, people lost their
lives so that we could havefreedom.
And now we have freedom, or toa certain degree we have freedom
(08:01):
, and we don't value it.
In fact, we're taking it awaybit by bit, by bit by bit, and
many of us, many people, arecheering it on and are happy for
it, and that's just really,really, really frightening to me
.
And what's happened isuniversities, once upon a time
(08:21):
look, there's always been.
Of course, universities havealways been kind of lefty
training camps.
Of course they are, being young, used to be all about, you know
, being a socialist and thinkingthat you know you're going to
save the world and all this sortof stuff.
And then you grow older and yougrow up and you realize that
that's a whole lot of BS.
However, that's what it used tobe, but as things have changed,
(08:44):
so once upon a time, like whenI was younger, I would have
classed myself as being on theleft, and to me that meant
things like you know equalrights and you know equal rights
for you know, like gay people,being treated well and being
treated.
You know no different toanybody else, right?
And?
(09:04):
And it doesn't matter whatcolor you are, what different to
anybody else, right?
And it doesn't matter whatcolour you are, what skin colour
, where you're from, whatever,Again, everyone gets treated
equally.
You know sort of you know noracism or sexism or those kinds
of things, right?
So it's like what we wanted wasjust a fair and equal society,
and I think in the West we got along way there.
(09:25):
We got very close to it, asprobably as close as you can, by
having these kind of so-calledmulticultural sort of societies
you're always going to have.
There's always going to bestuff around the edges, there's
always going to be issues,because it's human beings and
human beings are human beings,right?
So it's never going to beperfect, but I think we did
pretty well overall.
However, then all of the peopleactivists had nothing to do and
(09:51):
all of these nasty types hadnothing to do and so they had to
create new things to fightabout.
So that is exactly what theydid.
So there's this kind of newversion of Marxism that's come
through there's just differentvariations that go through, and
this one's based on all thecritical theories the critical
(10:12):
race theory and gender theoryand things like that, and
essentially I don't need to gointo detail about it.
But what it comes down to is itcomes down to the oppression
Olympics and it comes down towhether or not you're oppressed
or whether or not you're anoppressor.
And essentially what they'vedone is they've sort of divided
all the lines and just workedout who exactly is oppressed and
(10:34):
who exactly is an oppressor.
If someone's oppressed, we feelsorry for them, we have empathy
for them, we care about themand they can do no wrong and we
worship them.
If someone is classed as anoppressor, they are evil and bad
and terrible, and it doesn'treally matter what you do to
them, because they're oppressors.
(10:55):
So they're terrible, evil andbad.
So that's pretty much what hashappened in the world as far as
this Marxist theory that hasmajorly infected a whole lot of
people in the Western world.
So they get given instructionsof who the oppressed are and who
the oppressors are, and they gooff and march and they just do
(11:18):
as they're told.
And, of course, these oppressedOlympics.
They don't really make sensebecause none of it makes sense,
right?
That's the thing.
None of it makes sense, whichis why, instead of actually
engaging a dialogue on the topic, engaging a dialogue on the
issue, that all they do is callyou names.
(11:38):
So if you're someone likeJacinta Nampat-Jemper-Price, who
in Australia talked about somethings in regards to immigration
she's a lovely woman who's notracist.
She might have sort of saidthings slightly not well, but
straight away racist, racist,racist she gets called, but
(12:01):
she's also half AustralianAboriginal and normally that
would put you in the class ofbeing the oppressed, but she's
half white.
So then she's the oppressor,but also she's the oppressor
because she's a conservative.
So if you're a conservative,you're automatically bad, you're
an oppressor.
So that's kind of the way therules work.
It's kind of weird, but anyway,they can't engage on the topic.
(12:24):
So what they do is theycharacter assassinate and they
and not just characterassassinate, assassinate.
Look, I don't know exactly thisyoung man who has been arrested
for killing Charlie.
I don't know the details.
The only bits I've heard isthat he sounds like he's been
radicalized into this Marxismthat I've been talking about
(12:46):
from what I hear, even if hehasn't even that's not what this
he's about.
Obviously he hates Charlie.
It's something to do withpolitics, but regardless, it's
just.
It's just an evil that thissort of thing is going on in the
world and people think thatthis is the answer to.
I don't like what that personsays, so I think I should kill
them.
So what's happening with thisoppressor-oppressed Olympics
(13:11):
that we have in our world at themoment is?
It's quite weird, because thepeople who I used to align
myself with, the people who Iused to agree with, they're all
about empathy.
They talk about empathy all thetime and how.
You know people on the rightpeople, conservatives, are not
empathetic enough, notempathetic at all, but they're
so empathetic and they talkabout how people on the right
(13:36):
and look and, by the way, theright is anything right of
Stalin?
Like, honestly, you're farright if you're right of Stalin
or Mao.
So I mean right just means thatyou're not completely crazy far
left.
Now, that's silly.
There's a whole bunch of peoplein the middle, by the way, but
they've just been.
It's just.
(13:56):
The major voices are thesepeople on the extremes and they
have decided that.
You decided that if you justdehumanize anyone who's a
conservative, say that they haveno empathy because they are the
purveyors of empathy.
They know all about empathy.
Apparently, conservatives donot and are evil and bad and
(14:19):
don't have empathy.
And they show their empathy sowell because they are laugh and
make fun when someone ismurdered and don't care about
his wife and children and allthe people who loved him and
what a difference he made in theworld.
And this isn't just the onlyexample.
The same thing happened on themultiple attempts on the life of
(14:43):
the president and many, manyother times over.
You see it over and over again.
Whenever someone who isconservative passes away, for
whatever reason, however ithappens, they delight in it.
So it's kind of interestingbecause it's like the people who
talk about bullying and empathythe most are the least
(15:08):
empathetic people I've ever seenand the biggest bullies I have
ever seen.
Now, dehumanizing language it'sanother one that gets talked
about a lot on the left, and Iused to, you know.
I remember Brene Brown talkingabout this when I used to really
enjoy listening to her andreading her things, and she
talked all about dehumanizingand how we shouldn't do that,
(15:31):
and she's absolutely right weshouldn't, and that's what used
to happen back in the day, andthat's kind of how something
like slavery happens wedehumanize people and we make
them our slaves.
Now I'm not going to go into along whole history about slavery
, but essentially, it happenedall around the world, to all
people.
I mean.
The word slave comes from Slav,so it was actually white people
(15:53):
from the Slavic countries who,I think, were the first slaves,
and it's hideous and it'sterrible and it should have
never happened and it shouldn'tbe happening now it still is.
One thing I will say, though,is that Britain were the first
people to abolish it.
The UK and the US fought toabolish slavery, but no one
(16:16):
gives them any credit for that.
It's only all the things theydid wrong.
No one looks at what they didright, and that's what's
happening with these youngpeople, is they're being brought
up to believe that everythingthat happened to do with any
Western country is evil and badand wrong.
And while Western countrieshave done evil, bad and wrong
things, they've done a lot ofright things as well, and
(16:37):
they've tried to fix thosethings.
They've tried to correct thosethings, and you know there's no
perfect country or system.
But why do you think all thepeople in the world who are
fleeing their countries andlooking for somewhere better to
go to, why do you think they'relanding in parts of Europe and
the UK and the US and Australia?
(16:57):
Why do you think they're cominghere?
Are they coming here becauseit's so awful and we've got it
so wrong?
Or are they coming here becausewe've got a lot of things right
?
We've got a lot of things rightand we've got some things wrong
as well, and we do absolutelyneed to own our history and we
do need to do better.
However, all we do is obsessabout how evil and bad we all
are, so you bring up wholegenerations of people.
(17:20):
Instead of being proud of theircountry though you know, I knew
people who went and enlistedwhen they were 16 to go and
fight in World War II right,instead of being proud and
wanting to go and fight for ourfreedoms and our country, people
are being brought up to beashamed.
They're being taught to becompletely ashamed and shameful
about who we all are and ourhistory.
(17:40):
And why do you think that theseyoung people are so confused
and get so angry Because theyare brought up with no sense of
purpose and then their onlysense of purpose is to fight
against these horribleoppressors, and so that's what
they're doing.
So they actually, you know, Ihaven't heard his reasoning, but
(18:01):
I could almost guarantee youthat when we hear, if we hear,
the so-called reasoning, theso-called justification for
assassinating Charlie Kirk, hewill think that he's a freedom
fighter and he will think thathe saved the world from a
dictator.
(18:21):
That's what he will believe.
And why does he believe that?
Why would he believe that?
Well, he would believe thatbecause that's what he is told.
Because, if you look at themajority of the media and many
people on the left I'm notsaying all people, but many
people, especially politicians,and especially in the US, for
(18:45):
the last 10 years, they haveconsistently been, consistently
been consistently calling trumpevery name under the under the
sun, but usually words that areassociated with hitler right.
So all of the words, you know,fascist and nazi and those sorts
of words, and dictator, all ofthat language.
(19:06):
Now, more and more and more,hysterically, day after day
after day, these people,including Obama, were talking
about dictator and hysterical,you know, hysterical.
We'll never have a country back, we'll never be able to vote
again.
Blah, blah, blah.
All of this hysterical language, I don't know.
Did anyone see at whose?
Whose funeral was it?
Was it Jimmy Carter's funeral?
(19:26):
Someone, a president whorecently passed away?
Did you see Obama sitting nextto Trump there and having a good
old laugh?
Did you see that?
One minute he's saying he's thedevil and he's about to destroy
our country?
The next minute he's having alaugh with the guy because he
doesn't believe what he said.
(19:46):
But for the last 10 years, thatlanguage has been spread around
.
I hear the same thing being saidabout Charlie how he hated gay
people.
No, he did not.
He was good friends with manygay people.
Or how he hated trans people.
No, he did not.
He just tried to tell them thatthey were beautiful and their
bodies that they were born inand they didn't need to destroy
(20:06):
themselves or take medicationsor have surgeries to be okay.
But what we're hearing is thathe was hateful and he was this
and he was that and all thesehorrific things about him that
are simply not true.
But even if you didn't likeCharlie, you didn't like his
politics, you didn't agree withhim.
It's okay to not agree withsomeone.
(20:29):
That is fine and actually hewas really open to that.
That's why at all of hiscollege tours, the first thing
he said was the people whodisagree with me come to the
front of the line.
So he actually let them infirst and let them up front,
because he didn't want to justtalk to people who said, oh, I
love you, charlie, I'm a big fan.
He wanted to talk to people whodisagreed because he wanted to
(20:51):
have those conversations,because he wanted to show it's
important to have thoseconversations.
And what he did is he opened upthe universities, because for so
many years now and this isstill happening today I don't
know this is happening inAustralia and in the UK and in
the US, I don't know where elseit's happening, but I know
students who are not saying whatthey want to say in their
(21:11):
assignments and in theirclassroom classes at university
because if they say anything butthe leftist agenda, you know
things I've been talking about.
If I say anything about that,they get marked down and
sometimes they get kicked out oftheir course.
(21:32):
Sometimes they get barred fromthings, banned from things and
all sorts of have to go totribunals and have to defend
themselves and the rest of itright.
So many people now are just notbeing honest and not being open
about what they believe or whothey are.
Now, charlie made it okay forpeople to be conservative if
they wanted to be, but he alsomade it okay to not and to come
(21:53):
up and talk about it and to comeup and have conversations.
For our world to succeed, forour freedom, for our free world
to succeed the one that what wecreated in the West that works
so well we have to be able tohave conversations and that
means we have to be able tomaybe get the words slightly
wrong without being completelycancelled and canned.
And oh, you're a this, you're aist, this sort of you know,
(22:15):
you're a transphobe or you're ahomophobe, or you're a racist or
this or that.
Now, if someone's activelyreally going out of their way to
say really nasty things andscreeching about different
racism, whatever, that's onething.
But if someone's saying, look,we're having problems with
immigration, let's talk about it.
Let's talk about what works andwhat doesn't, there's nothing
wrong with that.
It's important to have theconversation right.
(22:36):
If someone's saying, look, I'mreally happy for my friends who
are gay, but I'm really worriedabout the theories behind the
queer theory and the theoriesthat are teaching people that
they're not okay in their bodyand they need to change it
because they're somehow trans.
That's not being phobic orhateful, that's actually just
(22:56):
saying I'm really worried aboutthis situation and, hey, let's
have a conversation about it.
We need to talk about this as asociety.
But what's happened now withthis, uh, with this marxist
agenda, this oppressor,oppressed agenda?
Because they can't defend thosethings, because who can defend
that right?
No one can defend those things.
So what they do is they justscream fascist or whatever other
(23:19):
language, and that's how theydo it and they silence.
They silence people, which isexactly what they did to Charlie
the other day.
They silenced him.
Well, I think they've silencedhim and they may have, but they
haven't.
Because what I do know is that,even though all of the typical
nasty people had, hey, you getto know who people are and
(23:42):
what's in their souls when yousee how they respond to how
people have died.
You don't have to mourn forsomeone you don't know or you
don't like.
You don't really have to caremuch if you don't know or don't
like someone.
It's one thing to kind of notcare or not be interested.
It's a whole other level todelight in it.
Delighting in it, it's justrevolting, the vileness I'm
(24:06):
seeing.
Or I'm seeing some people say,oh look, we shouldn't do
violence, we shouldn't dopolitical violence, which of
course we shouldn't which Iagree with, of course.
No matter what side it's on, weshouldn't do political violence
.
Oh, he was a really nasty,terrible person and he was all
these names and blah, blah, blahand his terrible rhetoric and
blah, blah, blah, blah, but weshouldn't do political violence.
(24:26):
So you basically say weshouldn't do political violence,
but he's really nasty and well,you know, and you've got all
these young people thinking thatit's Hitler again.
Right, that we've got to.
All these fascists are out thereand we've got to defend our
country, and the only peoplebehaving like fascists are the
people on the far left who arecreating impelled speech.
(24:47):
You have to speak this way, youhave to say this thing, you
have to believe this thing.
You're not allowed to have freespeech.
You're going to get put inprison if you say something mean
on X.
That's fascism.
Right, shutting down speech,killing a man for his speech,
that's fascism.
(25:07):
Being open and having opendialogues and encouraging
discussion is not fascism.
If you're a bit confused aboutwhat fascism is.
It's not having open dialogues,it's not having, you know,
going and speaking to the mediaevery day and telling them what
you're doing and why you'redoing.
That's not fascism.
That's not what Hitler wasdoing.
If you're a bit confused aboutwhat fascism is, maybe you need
(25:30):
to look into that Again.
You don't have to agree withpeople's politics, but just
don't get talked into thisridiculous language, this
dehumanizing language that we'reusing, because this
dehumanizing language is gettingpeople killed but it's also
destroying our young people,because young people, many young
people, now think that wordsare violence.
(25:51):
Silence is violence, butviolence is not violence,
because if you do violence tothe oppressor in the name of the
oppressed, then you're afreedom fighter.
Yeah, what the actual like?
What?
I don't want to say those words, so I won't say them.
(26:16):
But that is the sort of stuffthat people believe now.
They believe that hurty wordsif they hear a word they don't
like like.
Speech they don't like is hatespeech.
No, hate speech is when someonesays, yeah, we need to go and
kill that.
You know those people, or thatrace, or those people with that
(26:37):
sexuality, whatever.
Of course that's terrible, butI don't believe in queer theory
isn't hate speech.
That's just someone saying theydon't believe in something.
Or I don't understand whychildren should be mutilated and
put on medications, and put onmedications that are going to
damage them when they find howthey are.
(26:59):
That's not hate speech, right?
So we do need to understandthat.
For us to succeed as freesocieties, we need to be able to
have difficult conversations,we need to be able to hear
things we don't like hearing,and we need to be able to have
difficult conversations.
We need to be able to hearthings we don't like hearing and
we need to be able to be okaywith sounding silly.
(27:20):
And it shouldn't be a risk thatyou're going to lose your job
or you're going to be destroyedor someone is going to kill you
because you have a differentopinion or because you said
something the slightly wrong way, you didn't mean it that way,
but now everyone's going to cutthe clip and do all the things
to it and send it around and doxyou and tell people to come and
(27:42):
get you.
That shouldn't be in ourWestern society, where we say we
have freedom and we say we'reso happy with what we've
achieved in that front.
We're letting it all go.
Uh, douglas murray wrote aboutthis in uh in his books and so,
and gad sad has also beentalking about it, jordan
(28:03):
peterson has also been talkingabout it.
And they're so right that we'rejust letting all of our
freedoms go and, uh, we'rejoining in this just
dehumanizing of each other.
And you know, when I was younger, and even now in my experience,
the good thing about people whoare classed as conservative and
(28:25):
I think I'd put myself in thatcamp now, people who class
themselves as conservative, theyargue a lot as well about
things, which is a good thing,which is a really good thing
Because it means it's not adictatorship.
There's not one person who saysthis is what we think.
We actually say, well, no,actually I see it this way, I
see it that way, no, I have thisopinion and we discuss it, and
(28:46):
that's really really healthy.
And when I used to.
Well, what I do believe for themost part is people who have a
different opinion to me andpeople who have different
politics to me.
Now, at the worst, you mightthink that they, that's that
person's stupid or silly, butyou just think that for the most
(29:08):
part, they're a good person ora reasonable, you know a a good
enough person, a nice enoughperson with what you think is a
bad opinion, right.
But the other way around itdoesn't work that way at all,
because the other way around itis if that person is a
conservative, then they're anevil bad person.
(29:28):
So they're not just a goodperson who might be misguided or
who you might disagree with oryou might think is stupid or
whatever, misled, whatever no,evil bad person.
And as long as we paint eachother that way, it's not going
to help.
And the problem is, the morethese sorts of things happen
that was happening to Charliethe more conservative people are
(29:49):
going to start painting peopleon the other side as evil and
bad.
And I'm seeing more and more ofthat.
And, like I said once, you seethe way people have responded to
when someone is murdered, youget to see who people really are
and what sort of soul they have.
And it's actually been.
Yeah, it's been interesting towatch and sad to watch and sad
(30:12):
to see.
We need to stop dehumanizingeach other and know that for the
most part, there might be I'mnot saying there's no such thing
as evil people or people withbad intentions, and there are
extremes on both sides ofpolitics.
That is absolutely true.
However, for the most part,most people are just real people
(30:34):
with real concerns and realworries about the world, and
maybe they just have differentideas of what they think the
solution might be or what theythink the answer is, or who they
think the answer is or who theybelieve they should vote for.
If we are prepared to talk toeach other and learn, like, why
do you think that and what makesyou think that and why do you
(30:56):
believe that?
And um, and have you thoughtabout it this way, if we're
prepared to do that, we canmaybe save this thing, this
freedom thing, this westernworld that we've you know that
so many people fought and diedfor.
But if we just continue todehumanize each other and to
(31:17):
believe that only one side hasempathy and only one side is a
good person and everyone on theother side is wrong or bad, no
matter what side you're on, ifyou think you're on a side and
look, many people aren't even onsides.
Most people, to be honest, mostpeople are somewhere in the
middle.
They're just somewhere in themiddle and they just want to
have a good life and have afamily and our career, or live
(31:40):
their life, and you know that'sall that most people want.
They don't really want to haveto get involved in all of these
sort of carry on, but you know,here we are, here we are, and I
think the truth is that CharlieKirk will live on through many
of us, including me andincluding all the young people
(32:01):
he's inspired, and I think thatthis will encourage people to
speak out more, even thoughthey'll be frightened that
political terrorism is terrorism, assassination is terrorism and
terrorism is designed tosilence people.
So I don't think this shouldsilence people and I don't think
(32:22):
Charlie would want that.
He would want people to speakup and he would want people to
amplify his voice and amplifytheir voice and continue having
conversations.
It is so important we need tohave open dialogue.
If you think about how we havesolved anything, whether it have
been political, whether it'sbeen a scientific or whatever it
is how do you solve it?
You solve it by talking aboutit, because we have to
(32:46):
understand, as human beings,part of how we think, part of
the ability to think and tothink through stuff and to work
through stuff, part of how we dothat is by talking or writing
right.
So you write something, youtalk something, you say
something, you say, okay, Ibelieve this.
And then sometimes, as you sayit, you hear yourself and you
(33:08):
say, oh, that sounds a bit weird.
No, what I meant was that.
Or someone says to you have youthought about this, this, or I
agree with that part of it, butmaybe you're a bit wrong there.
But you get better ideas, youget, you come up with solutions
because you're allowed to get itwrong, you're allowed to
stumble a bit, you're allowed tosort of your words aren't
absolutely perfect and you mighthave said a thing that sounded
(33:29):
bad but you didn't mean it to bewhatever.
We need to be allowed tostumble a bit and fall a bit and
have difficult conversationsand have hard conversations and
be awkward.
That's far more important thatwe do that and we get to
actually see each other as humanbeings again, rather than
hating on each other.
One thing I would suggest to youif there's someone that you
(33:51):
disagree with strongly onsomething and if there's someone
close to you or someone thatyou want to continue a close
relationship with, I wouldsuggest you do this thing and
actually, if you check out PeterBoghossian, he does this thing
called street epistemology.
I think, is how you pronounceit.
He shows examples of it onthere, but essentially what he
does is say you've got twopeople with differing opinions
(34:12):
on I don't know whether it's onwell, what are all the big
topics, whether it be on youknow, abortion, or whether it be
on Israel, all the differentthings, right.
So.
But what you do is you getsomeone to say all right, I
believe I strongly agree withlike, so you have a statement,
so the statement can be you know, abortion is good, abortion is
bad.
Like.
So you have a statement, so thestatement can be you know,
(34:34):
abortion is good, abortion isbad.
Like whatever.
Whatever the statement is, youchoose your statement and then
you say not, oh yes, I agreewith that, or I disagree with
that, oh, okay, fine.
But then what you do is youguess why the other person
thinks the way they do and itmakes you put your this is, it
makes you put your mind likethink, try and think how they
think.
So you sort of think okay, well, I think the reason that you
(34:56):
might support Israel, or thatyou might support Palestinians,
or whatever, whatever, whatever,I think the reason you think
that is because.
And then the person will say toyou no, you're wrong, no,
you're right, or whatever, or no, it's because of this, right?
But essentially, what you'retrying to do is, rather than go,
oh, you think that that meansyou're evil and bad or you're
(35:16):
stupid or whatever it's like.
Okay, you think that you mustthink it for a reason, because
you seem like a genuinely goodperson.
So let's explore why you thinkthat.
Now, the point of it isn't tochange each other's minds.
You don't have to change eachother's minds.
It's okay to walk away andstill have the same opinion, but
it's to understand, oh, okay,my friend who is on the left, or
my friend who is on the right,or whatever the thing is, the
(35:39):
reason they think that is this,and now I might think they're
misguided, but at least I knowwhy they think that.
I understand why they thinkthat, and then you at least know
that that's a human being withan opinion that you agree or
disagree with, right.
However, if you don't ask thatquestion or if you don't have
that conversation, it's likethinking that they're you know
(36:01):
it's hateful stuff, right?
So when we do this, when we havethis conversation, and we try
and put ourselves into the shoesof why do I think that person
thinks that way.
It's really really healthy totry and think why does that
person think that way?
And it also allows you to havea conversation.
Because when you know whatsomeone really thinks rather
than what you know, oh well,they watch the ABC, so they must
be, you know, think this way.
(36:22):
Or they watch Fox, so they mustthink that way.
They're just, they've just beenyou know, they've just been
brainwashed or whatever.
And instead of just assumingthat straight up, it's actually
giving the person the benefit ofthe doubt that they might be an
intelligent person and they'rea thoughtful person and they've
got reasons for believing thething.
And that helps you learn.
(36:45):
And look, sometimes havingthese conversations it might
make you change your mind ormight make you soften your
stance or might make you moresure of your stance.
That's fine as well, but at all.
But what it does do is allowsyou to know that the other
person's a human being.
And I think that if we want tocarry on the good, the good
(37:05):
things that you know charlie's,the goodness he brought into the
world, let's learn to haveconversations to the Socratic
method.
Let's learn to give people thebenefit of the doubt and have
conversations about why theythink the thing they do and,
rather than assuming all sortsof negative things about why
they think that, ask them.
Have the conversation, beprepared to have difficult
(37:27):
conversations and, as much asyou might be tempted to, don't
name call people, right, youknow, and the reason that people
name call people now is becausethey don't have an argument,
they don't have a justificationfor the ridiculous stuff they're
talking about.
So the next best thing iscalling someone a racist or
(37:47):
whatever, fascist.
So anyway, I think I'll leaveit there, because I've gone on
for long enough.
Like I said before, I didn'treally want to bring politics
into my wellness channel.
However, I think there's agreat unwellness in our world at
the moment.
I think there is a mind virusthat's gone through a lot of
(38:09):
people and they're just they'vegone right off the deep end and
supporting terrorism, violence,supporting political murders and
, you know, supporting transingthe kids and not letting them
(38:32):
grow up and go through puberty,which is the cure in most cases
for that, their situation, notprotecting children, those sorts
of things.
I think and and that wholevictim olympics thing I was
(38:53):
talking about, which I've talkedabout before as well that now
what we do is, we lionize thevictims and we shame people who
are so-called successful, andthat is for those of you who
don't know, the oppressoroppressed thing.
Essentially, if you'resuccessful as a race or as a
religion or as a country or evenas a person.
(39:16):
Sometimes, if you're successful,the only reason you could
possibly be successful isbecause you've oppressed
somebody and you stole it offthem, so you're an oppressor.
If you're unsuccessful, theonly reason that could possibly
be is because someone took itoff you and someone oppressed
you.
So it's very it's kind of likeI don't know, it's not even the
(39:39):
university.
It's such a naive way oflooking at things that if anyone
who's successful is bad, anyonewho's unsuccessful has clearly
been oppressed and someone didthat to them Very simplistic way
of looking at things that maybeyou think when you're at school
.
But this is actually whatpeople adults are sprouting and
(40:01):
talking about now, which isridiculous, and I think that
what it does is it forces us toput people in all sorts of
categories again and splitpeople up rather than bring
people together.
So I don't think it's healthyand I think that it's encouraged
a lot of people to really bementally ill, look for mental
(40:25):
illness and stay in their mentalillness because you're a good
person if you're oppressed.
You're a bad person if you'renot oppressed.
Right, so you need to beoppressed, so you need to really
, really relish in yourvictimhood to be a good person
in our society now, according tothese new rules.
(40:48):
And that's not encouraginghealing, that's not encouraging
healing for individuals and it'salso not encouraging agency for
anyone Right now.
I've had conversations aboutthis before, I won't go into it
you know in detail here.
But essentially, if you tellpeople something bad happened to
you, but let's help you and youcan work your way through it
and out of it and have asuccessful life, that's you know
(41:11):
.
That's a great outcome forpeople.
But we're not doing that.
We're saying that you've beenoppressed and you deserve
damages for that and you shouldsit around for the rest of your
life and complain about howoppressed you are and how
mentally ill you are and howterrible things are and just
wallow in that and not achieveanything in your life.
(41:32):
That doesn't help anybody.
So we take away people's agencywhen we label them as oppressed
.
You're a part of the oppressedclass.
You're part of the victimhoodclass.
You can just stay in thatforever.
That doesn't help people.
It doesn't help anyone.
So the oppressor-oppressedpolitical theory is really
(41:55):
damaging to people's health andto people's mental health, and
it's really damaging tocommunities because it takes
away people's agency.
You take away people's agency.
They can't go out and do thingsthey want in their life and
they're being told well, thereason you can't is because all
these evil people are holdingyou down and you wonder why
there's kids committing violenceor there's people on trains
(42:15):
thinking that this beautifulUkrainian woman is their enemy
and they need to kill herbecause she's probably the
oppressor right?
It's just so sick, so sick.
So I'm going to end in justsaying RIP Charlie, and I'm
thinking of, like, the familiesof all the people who've been,
(42:36):
all of the people who areexperiencing violence in the
world now, but in particular I'mthinking of Irene's family and
Charlie's family and I thoughtthat he was a beautiful man who
brought a lot of light to theworld and who was enthusiastic
and excited about the world andachieved so much in his short
(42:57):
years I think he was 31.
He achieved so much in thattime and I'm glad he lived and
I'm glad he achieved what heachieved and I'm glad he's left
his mark and I hope that we canturn that into that, gets turned
into a beautiful legacy and Ibelieve it will be and so I'm
glad for that, I'm grateful forthat.
(43:18):
But so, so, very sad, so so,very sad, and this feels like
another one of those moments inmy lifetime where there's a
before and after, and that shifthappened this week, and let's
just work towards the afterbeing something good.
(43:40):
Let's use this to teach eachother about having important
conversations, realconversations about things that
matter.
That's what I say this podcastis about.
Let's learn how to do that.
Let's learn how to have thesedifficult conversations so this
political violence and justviolence in general doesn't
continue.
(44:00):
Anyway, I'll leave it at thatand please like, subscribe and
share.
Look, and I'm happy for you tohave a different opinion to me,
all I, all I say is that I onlyengage with people who want to
discuss the topic, who want todiscuss the topic, who want to
discuss the situations, who wantto discuss.
If you stay on topic, I'm happyto talk to you.
But people who want to justabuse and character, assassinate
(44:23):
people not interested in havingthose conversations, that
they're not productive, theydon't help anyone which is the
whole point of this episode wassaying that that's not
productive.
So, please, if you did enjoythis episode or enjoy is
probably the wrong word but ifyou thought it was interesting
or thought provoking and youwanted to start a conversation
with someone else, you know,please share it with them and
let's start a conversation.
(44:45):
I'm not pretending I'm rightabout everything.
I'm just like I said.
We just have to haveconversations and be prepared to
sometimes be wrong andsometimes be right and muddle
our way through the humanexperience and what that means.
But we won't do that, we won'tbe successful at that, unless
we're prepared to haveconversations and unless we're
prepared to look at the otherperson and believe that they're
(45:08):
human too, and know that they'rea human too, even if their
opinions seem pretty crazy toyou.
Okay, uh, yeah, like, subscribe, share, comment, all those
things.
Uh, please, you know, make aneffort to share this episode for
me.
So more people.
I just really want people tohave conversations.
Anyway, I'll leave it at thatand I will talk to you again
(45:29):
next time.
Thank you, bye.
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