Have you ever witnessed a child's tenacity when learning to walk, the unrelenting trial and error? That same resilience is the heart of our latest episode, where Monique Peters and I explore the challenges of auditory processing disorder. Monique opens up about her son's challenging journey, from the onset of a stutter to facing educational hurdles and being bullied.
Through their story, we reveal the light that shines at the end of the tunnel for parents and individuals confronting similar hurdles, as interventions like speech therapy and dietary adjustments pave the way to understanding and growth.
When Monique learned about the latest brain research from the book The Brain That Changes Itself by Dr Norman Doidge, suddenly her son's learning challenges made sense.
He did an online program called Fast ForWord® mentioned in the book, and she was pleasantly surprised at the improvements in his speech and communication. She soon found herself working with a Sydney based speech pathologist, supporting parents who had also bought the program. Here she learned a lot about auditory processing disorder (APD), the role it plays in learning challenges, and how neuroscience technology can help.
In our discussion, we discuss the human brain and neuroplasticity. Explaining neural pathways, illustrating how the interplay of nature and nurture sculpts our cognitive abilities. From the inspiring tales of survival by our elders to the impact of consistent brain challenges on language skills, I share anecdotes and expert insights that weave together the concept of a growth mindset and the resilience passed down through generations.
About Monique Peters:
Since 2018 Monique has been serving clients all over Australia, trademarking her Learnerobics® program in 2022. She is continually learning more about business, neuroscience and the growth mindset. Last year, she become one of Dr Daniel Amen's Licensed Brain Health Trainers.
As a learning coach, Monique wants to learn as much as she can to help people with learning and reading challenges to feel more confident and capable in life.
Contact Links for Monique:
https://learnerobics.com.au/book-a-free-consult
https://www.facebook.com/learnerobics
https://www.instagram.com/learnerobics/
www.linkedin.com/in/monique-peters-learning
Learn more about Fiona's speaking, radio and consultation services at Informed Health: https://informedhealth.com.au/
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Credit for the music used in this podcast:
The Beat of Nature
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fiona Kane (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
with Fiona Kane.
I'm your host, Fiona Kane.
Today I've got an interestingtopic, I've got a guest and
we're going to be talking aboutlearning challenges, auditory
processing disorder and theneuroscience which is helping us
understand what is going on.
So my guest is Monique Peters.
(00:22):
Hi, Monique.
Monique Peters (00:23):
Hi, Hi Fiona, Hi everybody, Hi everybody.
Fiona Kane (00:27):
So introduce yourself, let us know who you
are.
Monique Peters (00:30):
Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me
on the podcast today.
I learned all about learningchallenges and auditory
processing disorder through myson's learning challenges.
He's 22 now and he's doing muchbetter than I thought he was
going to.
For many years I was worried,very, very worried about how he
(00:50):
would be able to survive as anadult.
And I needn't have worried,because I read a book called the
Brain that Changes Itself by DrNorman Doidge, and that changed
my whole life, changed myunderstanding of everything that
was going on, and since thenI've been on an incredible
journey.
I started my own businesstrying to help other children
(01:12):
and other parents with the sameproblems so that was about six
years ago now, okay, and I havebeen learning an awful lot and
I've been undertaking somereally amazing personal
development since then.
Fiona Kane (01:25):
Yes, yeah, yeah, definitely.
So it's been a six-year journeyfor you.
Would you like to expand at allon that journey or what was
going on in that time?
Or even sort of things like howdid you recognise there was an
issue?
All those kinds of things giveus a bit more information about
what that journey entailed.
Monique Peters (01:42):
Okay, so really quite interesting.
So hindsight has given me as Ilook back, there were signs that
I didn't really recognisebefore that he was struggling.
So he developed a stutterovernight, when he was three,
just before starting preschool,and he just said one morning I
(02:03):
can't, can't, can't talk, and ofcourse my husband I can't talk.
And of course my husband and Iwere very worried.
We eventually got him intospeech therapy and they had an
amazing program called theLidcombe Program and his stutter
was gone within three to fourmonths.
Fiona Kane (02:19):
What was the program called?
Sorry, I missed that, just incase.
Monique Peters (02:22):
It's called the Lidcombe Program, so it's
offered by a lot of speechpathologists.
It is australian and it doesactually come from the.
The thing is the university oftechnology or the university of
sydney at lidcombe and that'swhy it's called the lidcombe
program.
But it's an amazing program foryoung children who have
stutters and um.
So we thought with that passingthat that was over.
(02:44):
We thought, okay, that was that, let's move into.
You know he was soon startingschool and so on.
But he started on par witheverybody else at school.
But as school became morecomplicated so especially as
they started to read, he fellfurther and further behind and
by year two and three he justwasn't keeping up with the
(03:06):
others at all.
There were social problemsstarting as well, a lot of
misunderstanding.
Just a really crazy time forhim, very confusing for him and
for me too, because I wasn'tsure how we could help him.
He had an assessment and he hadmarkers for autism and ADHD,
(03:27):
but not enough for a diagnosisand in those days it was before
NDIS, so he couldn't get anyhelp at school Without a
diagnosis.
He wasn't allowed to have anyhelp at school, which was really
.
Fiona Kane (03:38):
For those listening.
In Australia, the NDIS is ourNational Disability Insurance
Scheme, so that's only beenaround for the last few years
and that is very useful forpeople dealing with these issues
.
So I thought I'd insert that,because not everyone who listens
or watches is in Australia.
So that's just our version ofan insurance scheme for these
(04:01):
issues.
Monique Peters (04:02):
Thank you, Fiona .
Yes, because we didn't havethat um back then and in the
school he wasn't getting thehelp and support that I thought
he needed.
So he was, by that stage, uh,writing things out of sequence.
Um, he couldn't kind ofsequence a story properly.
He really wasn't understandingmuch of what was going on at all
.
And, um, I was trying so hard,like we had him in speech
(04:26):
therapy, we I gave him, uh,behavioral optometry, there were
all sorts of things that wewere doing.
I would see a integrativemedicine doctor, um, and he took
him off gluten, dairy, we weretaking digestive enzymes and all
sorts of things, but nothingreally seemed to be.
Everything was helping in asmall way, but there was nothing
(04:48):
that was really happening.
And then when I read the bookthe Brain that Changes Itself, I
read about Dr Michael Merzenich, I read about auditory
processing disorder and, mostexcitingly, about the
neuroscience that is,understanding how the brain
learns and how we can actuallyovercome many learning
(05:11):
challenges and many other braininjury challenges and all sorts
of things as well, and it justreally opened up my eyes to what
was going on.
There was a program in the book.
It was called Fast Forward, andI got that program from my son.
There was a company inAustralia that I could buy it
from.
So she was a speech therapist,self-speech pathologist and and
(05:37):
oh my goodness, his speechpattern normalized.
So it's kind of hard to explain.
He a funny way of speaking.
It was kind of like his own wayof speaking in different
inflections and differentemphasis on different things.
It wasn't quite within thenormal pattern.
It was kind of cute, but it waskind of losing that cuteness as
(05:59):
well as he was heading towardshigh school yeah, it's cute when
they're little, but as they getolder that that could be really
really challenging for them.
That's right yeah, and then withthe social challenges getting
worse and worse, like I say, hewas just constantly being
bullied.
By this stage he was having aterrible time at school.
He was trying to find he was agood kid and he was quite
(06:20):
compliant and everything andwould go to school, but he was
trying to find ways to avoid itas much as he possibly could.
You know he was getting sick, alot things like that and how
long did it take?
Fiona Kane (06:32):
because there's all this time, because it's been
sort of this six-year journey,but you said that it was when
you, when you, finallydiscovered that book.
How long had it been that youwere having these challenges
until?
Monique Peters (06:44):
you discovered the book Probably from year two.
I was getting really concerned.
Fiona Kane (06:49):
So that's about seven years old.
Monique Peters (06:53):
Yes, it was about seven, and then I didn't
read the book until he was inyear six, so he was 12 then.
Fiona Kane (07:00):
Okay, all right.
So it took quite a while.
So all those, other things youwere exploring along the way.
It took quite a while beforeyou found this book that changed
everything.
Monique Peters (07:09):
Yeah, and I was losing sleep every night because
I was worrying what can I do?
And I was constantly Googling.
I know a lot of mothers sharethis particular part of the
journey.
We're always trying to find thething that's going to make the
difference because we don't wantour children to be bullied.
It's really hard to send themto school when you know they're
(07:29):
going to be bullied.
That was what was reallybothering me.
So buying the program was anincredible experience because
the work that you do it's veryrepetitive, using the
neuroscience and understandingthose principles of
(07:50):
neuroplasticity where you needthe repetition, but at a much
more basic level than isavailable on any other reading
program.
So it really gets to work onchildren being able to clearly
hear the difference betweenspeech sounds.
You know so that at the cut.
But if you can imagine,auditory processing disorder
(08:13):
often comes across as a hearingproblem, but these kids will
pass hearing tests becausethat's actually based on volume.
Fiona Kane (08:20):
Yes.
Monique Peters (08:20):
But this is how fast the brain can process those
sounds.
And if it can't hear thedifference clearly between
things like but and perp, or chand sh but there's many others
that commonly get mixed up thenthe brain can't form a proper
map of those sounds.
And it's when we're reading,when we're writing, when we're
(08:41):
talking, we're accessing thatphonemic map all the time.
And if that's not clearlymapped then it's very difficult
for the brain to sequence andprocess the sound and do all the
things that it needs to do togive us meaning from what we're
hearing and from what we'rereading.
Fiona Kane (08:58):
So that's auditory processing disorder.
So I had an awareness around itbecause I had someone I knew a
few years back who, like yousaid, I thought that this person
was deaf or partly deaf,because that's how it seemed
they just weren't hearing thingsand didn't seem to be
(09:19):
understanding or didn't seem tobe taking part.
And I'm aware that I think forthis person I don't want to say
who it is because I want to keepa person's privacy but for that
person, I think, when they werevery young and they were trying
to get help, there wasdefinitely no, I don't think
there was even a diagnosis forthat or there was no
understanding of that.
(09:40):
And so, as you were justexplaining, then it's not so
much whether you hear, you canhear, but it's whether or not
your brain can comprehend orunderstand or, like you said,
understand those certain soundswell, it's hearing the
difference between the littlephonemes.
Monique Peters (09:59):
Um, so what's a?
Fiona Kane (10:00):
phoneme.
Come on, tell us let's getdrilled right down, because not
everyone knows this language.
Monique Peters (10:06):
So a phoneme is the basic unit of language.
So it's the at the k, de, f, g.
Fiona Kane (10:13):
Okay.
Monique Peters (10:16):
And this is why, with the science of reading,
now we're actually returning inreading instruction in schools
to phonetics.
Yes, we're bringing that back.
Fiona Kane (10:22):
Why have we ever stopped that?
Don't even get me started onthat.
That's ridiculous, but anyway,at least we're going back there.
Monique Peters (10:29):
That's good.
We were bored for a littlewhile there Well
well-intentioned, because wewanted to make the reading very
exciting for the children.
And the phonetics going throughthe phonetics is quite boring,
but our brain actually does needto have that experience and
that repetition to build up thatclear phonemic map.
Fiona Kane (10:47):
Okay.
Monique Peters (10:48):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (10:49):
Auditory processing disorder.
The people can't tell thedifference between those sounds.
Monique Peters (10:55):
Not clearly, and it's on a spectrum itself.
So you can have it severe andnot so severe.
I've worked out from my son'sjourney that I have it to a
degree, but I never realised it.
So I may be on a bit of aspectrum as well with dyslexia,
because neurodiversity it's allpart of the same group of things
(11:18):
that are in that milieu ofthings going on.
But, I have trouble with my leftand right, but I never had any
learning challenges, so you knowthere's varying degrees of all
of this.
But yeah, it's just interestingwhen you realise how hard the
brain is actually working tocreate meaning, both from what
(11:40):
we're hearing and reading.
There's an awful lot going on,so that phonemic map really
needs to be clear before you canstart matching letters to
sounds, which is that decodingprocess of reading.
Okay, children can't hear thedifference clearly between a
(12:00):
sound, and I hear it with someof the students that I work with
now.
They're saying et instead of eh, so they're repeating what
they're hearing.
They're hearing eh, but thesound is eh.
Fiona Kane (12:11):
Yes.
Monique Peters (12:12):
So this fast-forward program gives them
a lot of repetition at hearingthose differences clearly and
making those clear distinctionsbetween them.
So someone with auditoryprocessing disorder are the ones
that will say hopsital insteadof hospital or ask.
Fiona Kane (12:31):
Oh, okay.
Monique Peters (12:33):
Because that's the sequencing side of things.
They're just.
Things are getting out ofsequence there somewhere.
Fiona Kane (12:41):
Okay, and so I just had a question on the tip of my
tongue.
What was it?
I?
What I wanted to know is withokay, so with the auditory
processing disorder, with that,that practice that you were just
talking about, practicing thosesounds, is that building new
neural pathways?
(13:01):
Is that what it does?
Is that what you're trying todo?
Monique Peters (13:04):
It's building more connections.
Fiona Kane (13:06):
Yeah, which is the?
Monique Peters (13:07):
part of the process.
Yeah with auditory processing,so with children who are
struggling to read.
Many will struggle at first, soeverybody needs varying degrees
of repetition to get over thoselittle hurdles.
Reading, we have to remember,is a very recent thing,
evolutionary speaking yeah so,and our brain was actually never
(13:28):
meant to read.
It was never.
It was never evolved or createdto read.
We make it do that and ourwhole survival of our culture
has depended on that, which Ifind really exciting to to
explore that, um, but it's notsomething that our brain was
evolved to do, and the fact thatit does is neuroplasticity at
(13:48):
work.
Really, every day, our brain isbuilding connections and things
to help us become moreefficient at the things we are
repeating, because when we'rerepeating something, that's how
we tell our brain.
This is important.
We need to get good at this.
So let's repeat this, let'sbuild those connections to make
(14:09):
it more efficient in your brain,and we always see that process
as grace.
So if, for example, you'rewatching a child learning how to
play piano and at first theirelbows might be up and their
fingers in the wrong place,sometimes their face even, you
know, got contortions and allsorts of things, that's because
the neural network is notrefined yet and through the
(14:32):
process of practice, it learnsto refine all that.
So we see it as grace.
And it's the same with languagewe become more eloquent with
language as we practice it moreand more.
Fiona Kane (14:44):
Yeah.
Monique Peters (14:44):
Okay, yeah.
Fiona Kane (14:45):
Okay, yeah, so when I talk about neural pathways, I
will tell you the way I explainit and you can tell me if you've
got a different way ofexplaining it, because I think
everyone just learns their wayof explaining it to people.
But when I talk about neuralpathways, I always talk about
the difference between, say,when a baby is born and when a
giraffe is born.
So when a giraffe is born, theyalready pretty much can stand
(15:08):
up almost straight away.
Yeah, and they're walkingpretty much straight away
because they need to be right.
Yes, when a human baby is bornbecause we've actually got such
large brains and if we got tofull size completely, no woman
would ever be able to give birthwhat we do is we sort of say,
(15:34):
all right, we can't have all thepathways built before the baby
is born, so those pathways, theconnection of how to walk and
talk and many things, so thosepathways, the connection of how
to walk and talk and many things, will come after the baby is
born.
So when the baby is born, andyou know, first of all it's like
learning to hold their head up,you know, and they get the neck
muscles strong enough to holdtheir head up and then they're
(15:54):
doing like tummy time and theirhead up, and then they're
rolling and then they'recrawling and then eventually
trying to stand and falling over70 million times and then
eventually walking.
But all of those stages arewhat builds the neural pathway
between kind of the muscles andthe arms and the legs and
everything and the brain.
So that's how I describe whatbuilding a neural pathway looks
(16:17):
like, and you were explaining itjust then in whether it's
learning to speak, learning toplay the piano, learning to do a
sport, learning to sing,whatever it is.
So have you got sort of yourway of explaining that neural
pathways?
Because I think it's good toexplain it really well, because
once you kind of understand that, there's a lot you can
understand after that.
Monique Peters (16:36):
Yes, so I learnt to get away from the scientific
explanation of it very early onin the piece, because I would
kind of see people's eyes glazeover, and you know this.
I kind of see people's eyesglaze over, and you know this is
kind of so.
The best way I find it is abouttalking about the repetition.
So whenever we repeat something, that's we're telling our brain
(16:57):
that this is important to us.
I need to get good at this.
You lay down the pathways tomake those electrical signals
travel faster, to make thingsmore efficient, and we'll both
get the benefit of that.
Like, basically, I'll survive.
Fiona Kane (17:16):
Yes, because it's all.
Monique Peters (17:17):
Everything we do is built around our survival.
We kind of forget that a littlebit these days because we're so
comfortable in our lovely homesand everything, but it's really
all about our survival.
So even the traffic that comesfrom our body, all the sensory
stuff that comes from our body,goes up our spine, through our
(17:39):
nervous system, up through ourspine into the amygygdala, which
is all about our survival.
You know, that's where ourbreathing is hardwired, our
heartbeat, everything that weneed for survival is more or
less hardwired in there.
Um, and that that's where thefear comes into things, where
fear is our most basic.
You know, one of our most basicemotions, probably the most
(18:03):
basic emotion, and that's whatseems to drive everything else.
So if you look at the anatomyof the brain, it then goes
through, you know, the feelingsort of side of things, and then
to the prefrontal cortex, whichis the human rational planning
and all that sort of thing.
So all those emotions,especially fear, we feel first
(18:25):
Our brain.
It goes through a process first.
Yeah, I think that's a good wayof explaining it.
I love the repetition becausethat makes sense to a lot of
people.
So it's kind of how we buildthe bad habits, good habits, how
we change habits, those sort ofthings.
But we've also got nature andnurture going on.
So there's what you're bornwith and then there's what we
(18:50):
wire in response to ourenvironment.
So, as far as language, thehuman brain is very, very
sensitive to language, becausethat's how we've learned to
communicate, cooperate andsurvive, and I think that's been
how we've survived so well isbecause we have learned more or
less to cooperate and languagehas been a very big part of that
(19:12):
.
And language has been a verybig part of that.
Um, but my brain is kind of,for example, half-wired in dutch
and half-wired in english.
Well, okay, probably moretowards the english side, but,
um, I've got some dutch therebecause my family is dutch and I
listened to dutch as a childand so do you think in english,
or do you think I think in?
English.
Fiona Kane (19:30):
Yes, I do think in english I've got a greek friend
who grew up in Australia but shethinks in Greek.
Monique Peters (19:37):
There you go.
Fiona Kane (19:39):
She went to Aussie school and Greek school and she
was involved in the church andall of that.
I'd never thought about itbefore.
Because I'm English, I used tospeak English and Australian.
Monique Peters (19:50):
Well, then you spend your formative years.
It's so important becausethat's your first language and,
as you know, your first languageis always.
I remember my grandmother, forexample.
She came to Australia speakingDutch.
She learned English while shewas here.
She had a stroke in her late70s, so it was obvious, you know
(20:12):
, she reverted back back toDutch, but she actually had
another stroke later and shereverted back to English.
She lost a lot of her Dutch,which I thought was a
fascinating process, and I seethat now with.
I have a couple of peoplearound me with dementia and I
see that with their memory.
You know, their memory is indifferent time zones.
(20:34):
You know, sometimes theyremember something from the
recent past and they mightforget something from their
childhood.
It's more likely that theyremember something from their
childhood as that goes last, butagain, that's because it's
deeper in the brain.
Fiona Kane (20:48):
But yeah, Getting up and getting ready for work or
something like that from a jobthey were in 30 years ago.
Monique Peters (20:54):
That kind of thing.
That's it, yeah, and have youheard of those people?
Fiona Kane (20:57):
There's people who have people have come out of,
woken up from a coma and theyspeak a different language.
Have you heard of those onesbefore?
And the language that theynever spoke before they wake up
and you know they're English orsomething and they're speaking
Chinese or something like thathow crazy is that.
Monique Peters (21:16):
I actually met a fellow who, um, he's a tradie
and I thought he was Irish, buthe wasn't.
He had a brain injury and hewoke up with an Irish accent
this is crazy, I don't.
How does that?
Fiona Kane (21:30):
even I don't, even, I can't even begin to understand
how that happens something withit.
We even begin to understand howthat happens.
Monique Peters (21:34):
That's something that we would love to explore
because it is very interesting,very, very interesting.
But I do love to talk aboutneuroplasticity as our brain's
ability to adapt and survive toour situation.
You know, and thank heavens,that it is that nature and
nurture and that we can adapt tothings.
You know and thank heavens thatit is that nature and nurture,
(21:56):
um, and that we can adapt tothings.
You know, so, um, like I wastalking about before the the
professional development thatI've undergone as I've gone into
business um you know I I wasfrightened of doing videos.
Uh, in the very beginning, youknow, just oh and well, I'm
still a little bit nervous.
Now I'm a lot more relaxed thanI used to be and it's much
(22:18):
easier to have a conversation,you know, and I love how skills
develop confidence you know, andI love talking about that with
my kids, you know, because themore they can do, the more
capable and confident they feel.
Fiona Kane (22:34):
Yeah, and I think for a lot of us I mean the video
more they can do, the morecapable and confident they feel.
Yeah, and I think for a lot ofus I mean the video thing is a
really really common thing.
Video or public speaking, allthat kind of stuff, really
common fears, and so that's fora lot of people that's true.
And with videos I found withmyself I started doing Facebook
Live videos very regularly.
After a while it just becamenormal for me to do it and
(22:56):
Facebook would always save.
Like you know, when you scrollthrough and you see the video
there, it would always save it.
If you're in some weird position, that's how YouTube will save
it.
Now, because I've just done aweird movement but like so I got
used to just really weirdlooking like seeing my face look
really weird and all that kindof stuff and just seeing myself
because it's funny, because wedon't see ourselves all of the
(23:19):
time, we oh, and it's likethat's what everyone sees you
all the time, that's what youlook like.
So sometimes you've just got tokind of get get over that and
um and move on.
But what you're saying there,that that process of you saying
I just got used to it, that'syour neural network yeah making
it happen for you, yeah yeah,yeah, yeah and but in regards to
(23:41):
the uh, god, this is my brain,this is an old person's brain
trying to work.
I've got, I've got as listenerswould know I've got some brain
damage.
So sometimes I I lose access tocertain words or I just have a
moment.
That's okay, I'm having amoment.
I had a question about that.
I had a question in regards toyou were talking about building
(24:04):
new neural pathways and we weretalking about languages, and
it'll come back.
If we just continue on withsomething else, I'm sure it will
come back to me, to me.
I can't remember what it was,but it was just on the tip of my
tongue and it's, it's goneanyway.
So, in regards toneuroplasticity, um, oh, yeah, I
(24:24):
think that's it.
It's just like it's justsitting on the edge.
It's sitting on the edge.
As soon as I said that word, itstarted to come back in, but
it's still not quite coming backin, uh, in regards to that.
So, again with neuroplasticity,it's actually about your
brain's ability to be sort offlexible and to adapt and to
(24:45):
learn, and that's essentiallywhat that means, or have I got
that wrong?
Monique Peters (24:50):
Basically, yeah, but we can actually drive it,
yes.
So with the kids that I workwith, um and it is mainly
children, although I have workedwith um, a couple of people who
have had a stroke um, andthey've, you know, working on
their language function andbeing able to find those words
and yes, and things like that.
(25:10):
Um, so we know that if we placea consistent demand on the brain
to whether it's improvingattention.
So the pillars that I work withare attention, memory, language
processing and sequencing forreading and language skills, but
then also mindset.
So by the time they come to me,they're usually the typical.
(25:32):
My typical client would beprobably in year three or year
four and they're already veryresistant to learning because we
were talking before about fearand things like that.
When they're sitting in aclassroom and they're not
reading as well as they want tobe, as well as the other
children, they soon shut downand they're just trying to
protect themselves from apainful experience.
(25:53):
You know, they're not lazy,they're not this, they're just
trying to protect themselvesfrom a painful experience, you
know they're not lazy, they'renot this, they're not that.
They really are just trying toprotect themselves from
something horrible.
Fiona Kane (26:03):
Yes yeah.
Monique Peters (26:05):
So while the program that I do puts a demand
on their attention, their memory, their language processing
skills and their mindset, youhave to start from where they're
at, you know, and you have tobuild that.
And because they're used tosaying something to themselves
(26:28):
like I can't do this, I don'twant to do this, I hate this, I
can't do this, I don't want todo this, I hate this.
Changing that language is a bigpart of things.
So what I like to do is isgrowth mindset coaching.
So where we start to say,instead of I can't do that, we
change that to I can't do it yetyes, yeah, my listeners would
be very familiar with that.
Fiona Kane (26:49):
I talk a lot about language on this and absolutely
that All of the can't, won't,don't, whatever.
That language is not helpful atall.
No, and it's not about lying.
It's not saying oh, I'm reallygreat at something and I'm not,
because your brain won't believethat, but you've got to leave a
door open, and the door open isyet.
Monique Peters (27:10):
Yes, I haven't done it before however, it's an
absolutely beautiful word andit's when you think about it,
your um, you are, uh, yourthoughts are also wiring your
brain, so you're saying I can't,I can't, I can't.
You're actually wiring aphysical structure in your brain
(27:31):
to make that a reality, becauseyour brain won't process just
what's good, your neuralpathways won't build just what's
good.
You actually are in control ofthat, so you are the one that
wires your brain with yourthoughts, and if you choose
negative thoughts, then you'rewiring a negative thought brain.
Fiona Kane (27:50):
Yes, I see it with nutrition all of the time.
So I'll have someone who triedpeas when they were four years
old.
They're 65 now and they'venever tried peas again and they
say things like I don't eatvegetables.
That's a very broad category.
There's not one singlevegetable that you might like or
(28:14):
that you could eat, and it'skind of once they've decided
that that's a not, that's not athing, they literally it's like
closing down a big shutter yeahin their brain and their brain
just no longer entertains it.
That's right, and it's like done, finished, gone.
And so again I sort of say topeople, maybe you've never found
(28:35):
a vegetable you like, so youcan say I've never found a
vegetable I like.
Never know, I might one day.
At least that's somewhat open,but they've kind of got it
jammed closed.
Monique Peters (28:46):
Well, and the belief system comes into that as
well.
Yeah, so my beautiful father.
He's 91, and he refuses to eatsomething as beautiful as
pumpkin soup, because pumpkinswere chicken food for him when
they were children.
Fiona Kane (29:00):
Oh, okay, I suppose you've got to.
I mean, when you look atcultures and stuff like that, I
was listening to a podcast thismorning and they were talking
about how, when you go to Asia,they eat dogs and they eat bugs
and they eat cockroaches, theyeat tarantulas.
When I was in Vietnam, theywere eating tarantulas and
cockroaches.
(29:20):
So I suppose it is a culturalthing too that we have different
things in our mind that we seeas food or not food or whatever.
Monique Peters (29:29):
Well, again, if I can bring it back down to that
, brain plasticity, as we'regrowing up in our culture, we
are told all the time that thisis not just how we do this, but
the process in our brain issaying this is what's familiar,
this is where you survive, thisis what's familiar.
(29:49):
You will always want to comeback to this because this is
what has been wired in and thisis what's familiar.
And we spend the rest of ourlives trying to undo those sorts
of things that we learned aschildren.
You know, and that's what lifeis about.
That's exciting, actually.
We learn to question what welearned and we take on new
(30:10):
beliefs, but what's at our heart, what happens to us as children
, remains with us.
Fiona Kane (30:18):
Yeah, yeah, it does, and that's actually so while
you were talking before, I didremember what I was thinking of
before that I just couldn'tquite find, and what it was is.
It was about the.
I just forgot it again while Iwas talking.
I wrote it down so I wouldn'tforget.
Monique Peters (30:33):
I don't really do programs like this.
I wrote it down so I wouldn'tforget.
I don't really do programs.
Fiona Kane (30:36):
I wrote it down because it's terrible.
I was like I can say it 100times in 101, I can't remember,
but it was actually aboutfailure, right.
So a lot of what we were justtalking about for the last few
minutes is actually about thatfear of failure.
And you were sort of talkingthen about how we do.
We find, obviously we figureout how to survive in our life
(30:58):
and whatever that looks like inour family of origin, different
for different people.
It might be about getting oneparent or the other parent on
side, or both of them, or itmight be about surviving in
other ways to do with.
I don't know where you are andwhat your customs are and all
the rest of it, but we do learnabsolute survival and it is all
(31:18):
about survival and what I'velearned from my friend, linda
Campbell, who's a hypnotherapist.
She said that we're one-timelearners and essentially what
that means is that when you ababy or as a child, when you
sort of touch something hot andyou burn your hand or a dog
(31:39):
bites you or something, youlearn very quickly that hot
stuff is very painful or dogbites are very painful and scary
, whatever, and because we'reone-time learners, then we
usually won't ever put our handon the hot thing again, or you
won't kind of, you know, pull ona dog's tail or whatever it is
that provoked the dog, right?
(32:00):
So the good thing is we'reone-time learners and that is
why we survive.
The bad thing is, we'reone-time learners and so we have
a very clear in our brain, kindof we develop that sort of
saying okay, so to be safe, wehave to stay away from all dogs
and you know, we have to stayaway from all hot things or
(32:22):
whatever it is.
But we develop all of the rulesin our brain for staying safe
and, depending on what happensto you will depend on what
staying safe in your brain, whatit means, right, and the
one-time learner thing meansthat that thing is no longer
safe.
So, yes, we're always trying tokeep ourselves safe, because
survival is the biggest thingthat we need to do.
(32:44):
We need to survive.
Monique Peters (32:45):
That's right.
Fiona Kane (32:47):
And so, then, that's what leads to that absolute
fear of going outside of ourcomfort zone and being prepared
to be real bad at something.
Yes, for a long time.
Yes, oh yeah, until you're goodat it yes and so that that's
kind of biggest fear foreveryone.
Really, it's like it's we can'tsort of push or we can't wrong
(33:09):
word, we don't push throughthose comfort zones, and a lot
of it it relates to fear that'sright, um, and so in some of the
talks that I've been doing, Iwill talk about that fear.
Monique Peters (33:21):
Um, I'm thinking of a post that I did recently
where I um, put it.
It was a cartoon thank goodnessai can draw these things better
than I can so it was a girlwith a big lion next to her, but
there was a sheet of glass inbetween, so they were like at a
zoo and she was able to standthere and observe him very
(33:41):
closely without feeling like hewas going to jump through and
attack her, and I think it's avery powerful picture, and I
used it to talk about how, youknow, if a child is being
bullied at school, it actuallyfeels like they are being hunted
.
Yes, that is how it feels, andso we minimise that and say, oh
(34:04):
no, they won't.
You know, that's all very well,but that's how it feels Now.
Then what do we do?
So those feelings can be veryintense and very, extremely real
.
But then what do we do?
So those feelings can be veryintense and very, extremely real
, but then what do we do with it?
So you know when we can givethe child some strategies and so
on and build safety that way,and we have to make those
(34:25):
strategies familiar, becauseremember that using strategies
is a prefrontal cortex thingwith which most people don't
have a full, you know, a fullreasonable ability until they're
26, 27, 30, so as far as alittle child is concerned, they
then you know.
So they need to have practiceat those using those strategies
(34:47):
and building their confidence isprobably one of the better
things, better strategies in inthat sort of situation, because
when they're feeling confidentwith themselves they seem to
attract less bullies.
Fiona Kane (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, and it really is.
It's about actually learningthat you can survive stuff and
that you will be okay.
Yes, and the other thing too is, I think, at that age, which is
why it's a whole other topic,but why I have such a big
problem with children makingreally big decisions,
life-changing decisions, becauseI just don't think that their
(35:22):
brain is developed enough forthem to do that.
But when you oh, now I've lostmy train of thought I was
talking about children makingdecisions and that's where I was
going, me and my brain, talkingabout neuroplasticity, me and
(35:42):
my brain About knowing, when Italk to kids, when I talk to
school kids, what I tell them isI don't care about anything
that happened at my school, andI haven't since the day I left
it right, it means nothing to me, it means less than nothing to
(36:06):
me, pretty much.
And and like it doesn't matter,school just one day, school
just doesn't matter, even yourmarks and things like that.
Like of course, it's nice toget good results and and you
know that kind of thing.
However, there is such a thingas as going like studying when
(36:27):
you're older and bridgingcourses and all the different
things you can do later on.
So if you even completely flunkout of school, it's not ideal,
but it's certainly not the endof the world.
So it's amazing how we havesuch a big, because when you're
there, I remember being that ageand it's just so big and it's
so, and school is pretty muchyour whole world.
(36:51):
When you're that age, andbecause it is your whole world
if it's going wrong, it feelslike it's the end of your whole
world.
When you're that age, andbecause it is your whole world
if it's going wrong, it feelslike it's the end of your whole
world.
When, really, in six months, 12months, two years, whatever it
is, it's going to be in the rearvision mirror and you simply
won't care, and so it's actually.
Obviously you can't.
You know old head on youngshoulders, that kind of thing,
(37:13):
but that's something that weknow to be absolutely true and
all you can do is reaffirm thatwith the kids.
But essentially it really is.
You will get more confidence inyourself and know that you, I
think we have to learn how to beanti-fragile.
Monique Peters (37:28):
We have to learn how to cope with things we
really do need to be challengeda lot more than we are.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I like to talk about
learning not just being a schoolthing.
So I love opening up mystudents' mind to the idea that
we learn from every conversationthat we have, from everything
(37:50):
we see, touch, feel, smell.
You know, we learn from ourfamily.
We learn from our family.
We learn from the television.
We learn from YouTube.
We learn from so many otherplaces.
I mean my son with his avoidingschool.
He never wanted to avoidlearning.
School was a horrible place forhim but he learned so much from
(38:12):
.
He loved to watch whatentrepreneurs were doing on
youtube and, go figure, he'sreally wants to start his own
business and he's well on hisway to doing that.
Um, you know, he's, um, hewould the things that we learned
from each other.
So we happen to connect reallywell.
On film study um, I happen to doa couple of units of film study
(38:34):
when I was doing a tertiarypreparation course at TAFE when
he was in preschool and I lovedthat subject.
It was such a good subject andwhen I started introducing him
to some concepts that we werewatching in movies, he would
start to pick up on things andhe said Mum, look, there's a
dawn of a new day and I feellike there's a dawn of a new day
(38:54):
and I feel like there's a newthing going on here in this
movie and I'd say, yes, that'sit.
Um, you know there's, there'sso much to learn.
Um, I was only talking theother day, uh, with a friend of
mine going into a nursing home,and I have very, very fond
memories.
My mother worked in a nursinghome back when.
(39:16):
It was an unqualified thing todo, but she happened to be a
very kind person and she lovedlooking after the older people
and we were able to stay thereat night if dad was working.
And I remember having wonderfulconversations with old people.
I remember Mrs Bunnell and Iremember Mrs Watt and Mrs Watt
(39:36):
used to have butterscotchlollies for us and you know, and
I remember learning so much andI was never afraid of old
people because I had that lovelyexperience, so that the idea of
older people became familiar tome.
So it wasn't a scary thingseeing know their skin, or you
know, or how they were suffering.
You know yes.
Fiona Kane (39:58):
I remember when I was a little, my great, great,
great, great, no greatgrandmother lived with us and I
just remember because I rememberI was about three or four and I
remember looking at her skinand she would have been in the
mid 80s and I just I justcouldn't believe it.
I just thought it was thecraziest thing I'd ever seen.
Yeah, but she was still alivefor a few years when I was first
(40:18):
born, and then I lived with mygrandmother for most of my young
life.
So, yes, I had the advantage ofbeing around older people as
well.
Yes, and I think it's actuallyreally important, and maybe
there's a few things in oursociety because when you're
talking about this, I'm kind ofthinking of a few things that
that are really causing more ofthe struggle now, and I think
(40:42):
one of them is that many of uswell, so many homes now both
parents need to work and, like,I'm not saying wrong, right,
should or shouldn't work, any ofthat.
That's a whole other topic.
However, it is different nowbecause many people have to work
and they don't get to spend asmuch time with the kids maybe.
And I know that when I wasyounger, I had my extended
(41:03):
family, so I had aunties anduncles and cousins and grandmas
and that kind of thing andthey're all really important
because they all play differentroles, they all have something
different to offer.
And then, if you add to thatthe level of now that so many
families don't connect with eachother and they spend all their
(41:23):
time on their devices separatelyand not the devices don't have,
obviously there's a lot ofeducational things and things
that devices can be used forthat are really beneficial.
However, being curious andtalking to lots of different
people, I don't think you canreplace that.
Monique Peters (41:45):
That's right and that can be really deep.
So remember when COVID camealong and everyone was battling
over toilet rolls and all thatsort of thing and my father
looked at me and he wasn'tstressed at all and I must admit
I was a little bit stressedbecause I was trying to get some
groceries together for him sothat he'd be well stopped for a
(42:07):
while.
Yes, and he looked at me andsaid what is everybody so
worried about?
And it was because hischildhood experience was being
in an internment camp.
You know, he was in Indonesia,he was a Dutch colonial and by
the time the Second World Warcame along he was probably six
years old and he's in aninternment camp which is
(42:31):
something like a concentrationcamp.
But you know, know, he wasimprisoned and, um, it had a
terrible few years there.
Um lost everything that wasfamiliar to him because, you
know, it then became indonesia.
So the dutch really weren'twelcome there anymore and um,
and they weren't reallyaltogether fully welcome in
(42:53):
Holland either because theylooked a bit different than the
normal Dutch people.
And so you know my dad had beenthrough a lot and many of these
Dutch colonials ended up inAustralia and New Zealand and
Canada and England, america.
A lot of his family went toAmerica.
(43:17):
But yeah, you know, he he was,and I also grew up listening.
So my mum comes from Holland,holland, and um, they just had
bombs going off in theirneighborhood during their
childhood.
You know, churches were blowingup here and there and so on and
, um, I grew up listening tothose stories.
But their stories were notabout the tragedy of it all,
(43:37):
because they were all kids.
It was about, oh remember whenwe found this piece of equipment
in this bomb thing, and theywould all laugh.
So there was a resilience thatcame with that as well, with
listening to those stories.
And I feel very privileged nowthat I'm old enough to
understand how good it was tohear that sort of stuff and that
(43:58):
they survived and that theystayed together and they still
loved one another through thisstuff.
Fiona Kane (44:05):
Yeah, and actually I heard I think it might have
been Dr Phil talking about thisthe other day.
I listen to so many podcasts Ican't remember which one, but he
was actually saying that it'simportant for if, if, a lot,
because so many of us are notconnected, maybe, to parents or
grandparents or whatever overtime, or we're not talking to
them, we're not hearing thosestories and it's actually really
(44:28):
important so for us tounderstand that we can survive,
it's important for us to hearother survival stories from
people in our family to knowthat, okay, I come from a family
of survivors, because I amquite sure, if you spoke to
pretty much everyone about theirfamily, wherever they've come
from.
(44:49):
I don't think there's anyonewho's gone through one scape.
The last 100, 150 years havebeen, you know, a lot's happened
and so anyone who's descendedfrom anyone over that time or
even before that, but all of ourdescendants, essentially, they
all have their own challengesand there are challenging times,
and so I think that, again,having these stories and
(45:10):
connecting with the oldergeneration is really important
for that learning that, oh,actually, I come from a whole
bunch of survivors and the humanrace survive and we've adapted
and come up with lots of thingsover the years and I know that
there's many times, even in ourlifetimes, because we're of
similar age.
I think there's many times inour lifetimes that you know we
(45:32):
thought this is going to be it,there's going to be a nuclear
bomb or this or that, and we'restill here.
So I think it is important forkids to learn that, yeah, we're
survivors, the human race ingeneral are.
Monique Peters (45:46):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (45:47):
And many of our.
If we talk to them, our familyfriends can tell you the
survival stories.
Monique Peters (45:52):
Yeah Well, when I'm working with the kids I'm
actually trying to bring some ofthat back.
So part of my program is Iencourage them to connect with
an older cousin or uncle orauntie, someone who has been
through some hardship, who willcheck in on the child or the
student as they're making theirprogress, but also share those
(46:12):
kind of stories and say you know, I went through this tough
thing when I was younger and itkind of worked out okay.
I learned this from it.
You know that sort of thing andI think it's really helpful.
Fiona Kane (46:24):
Yes, yeah, definitely Definitely.
Monique Peters (46:27):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (46:29):
Were you about to say something.
Monique Peters (46:30):
I was going to say that my program can be quite
tough.
You know we're doing a lot ofrepetition and you know a lot of
the kids will tend to say, oh,this is getting really boring.
Now, mum, can we do somethingelse?
And it's no, we're going tomove through that.
And I'm trying to find allthose ways of keeping them
engaged so that we can get thatneural growth.
Fiona Kane (46:50):
Yeah, yeah, those neural pathways.
You know you can't sort of bebuilding a house and say, oh
look, we'll skip the foundations, that bit's boring, we'll just
build, we'll just build thestructure on top.
It doesn't work that way.
Monique Peters (47:00):
You actually do need to build the foundation
that's it, and and the examplethat was given to me once by a
very wise librarian was um if,um, if a child stopped wanting
to walk because it didn't lookgood, or it was boring, or was
falling over and things likethat where would it be it's
lucky that a child is operatingcompletely on instinct and
(47:20):
wanting to get up and walk.
Fiona Kane (47:22):
Yes, See they haven't got the story in their
brain yet that they can't orthey shouldn't, or they look
stupid or any of that Exactly.
So that shows you thedifference, right?
So how many times do childrenfall over Like?
How many times do children fallover like?
How many times?
So that that you can tell thedifference in the stories that
we have in our brain and howpowerful they are by watching a
(47:44):
child learn to walk.
if anyone's watched a toddlerlearning to walk, yes, there's
nothing that's going to stopthem and they will, they, they,
they're going to fall over amillion times, they fall over
probably thousands of timesevery day until finally they're
on their feet and they andthey're wobbly and that's
strange and whatever, yes, butthere's nothing going to stop
them.
(48:04):
But there's a certain age, oras a as we get older, and we
build up all of these storiesabout the danger and had what we
need to do to be safe.
It's like we put chains aroundourselves and kind of wall
ourselves into this kind ofsafety place and then all of a
sudden, everything's danger,danger, oh no, I can't, won't,
(48:26):
whatever, whereas that child hadnone of that.
So you can tell that we docreate those stories as we get
older, from that kind ofone-time learning thing that
those stories build up and ifwe're not careful we end up
building a fortress aroundourselves.
Monique Peters (48:42):
Oh, we do, we do .
There's a lovely video that Ilove to send to my new parents
when they first start and it'sabout Starfish the dog.
So starfish was born withswimmer's pup syndrome so
couldn't bring her legs upunderneath.
These puppies will often be putjust put down because they
can't be looked after.
(49:02):
But she came across a fosterfamily that wanted to put the
work in and it's a neurologicalcondition that they're born with
, but it can be retrained again,again through a lot of
repetition, and so the videoshows starfish, you know,
walking, really funny at firstand just, you know, chaos upon
(49:22):
chaos.
But instinctively the puppywants to keep running and keep
going and keep going and thepuppy works so hard and in the
end you see the puppy still gota bit of a funny walk but he's
running along the beach at theend he's grown up and it's just
lovely to watch and it's aperfect example of that
neuroplasticity and how we canuse the knowledge of it to
(49:44):
overcome things that we didn'tthink were overcomable.
Fiona Kane (49:48):
Yes, so for me, sort of in.
I'm aware of time, so I thinkwe should wind up soon.
Uh, because I tend I tend to goon.
Excuse me, I think I'm gonnacough, so I'm just gonna have
some I might have a drink too soI know, in regards to this,
(50:14):
that what I do, or what I say tomy clients is I always
encourage people to stay curious, and stay curious not only to
talking to other people andbeing just interested in life
and people in the world, butalso become curious and notice
their own self-talk and thethings they're saying either to
(50:35):
others or in their head, and notto judge it.
So I'm not about judgingyourself, just about being
curious.
And when you become curious,you start to hear yourself and
you hear your language and youhear all of the can'ts and the
shoulds and won'ts and whateverthose things.
And you hear all of the can'tsand the shoulds and won'ts and
whatever those things.
And once you start to hearthose, you can start to change
(50:58):
it.
And essentially, what I do is Iquestion myself really, is that
true?
Is that true?
Is that helpful?
And I often yeah, sometimesit's true, but sometimes it's
really not and even just simplethings, like I always tell this
story because it's a silly,silly story, but I always
(51:19):
thought that I hated countrymusic, and so some of it I don't
like and some of it I do likenow.
Essentially, though, for years Isaid I hate country music.
I hate country music.
And then one day I asked myselfthe question do I music?
And then one day I asked myselfthe question do I?
(51:40):
And?
And I thought no, my mum hatedcountry music and so I was
brought up with country music'sawful, whatever.
So in my mind I had the storycountry music's bad and I hate.
So I was like I hate countrymusic.
It's just something I said foryears.
And then one day I discovered Idid like some.
I.
I don't like all of it, but Iliked some of it, but it wasn't.
I know it sounds silly, but Ididn't even.
It was just so.
It was just a story in my brain.
(52:00):
And because it had this storyin my brain, I'd never really
explored if it was a true story.
I just accepted that, that tobe true.
And then, once you do that,it's the chains.
We keep ourselves limitedbecause you don't go exploring
if you've decided that that's no, I'm not going to do that, or I
(52:21):
can't do that, or I won't dothat that's right.
Monique Peters (52:24):
I um, you know, again, going back to that
personal development that I'vehad in this business and also
understanding theneuroplasticity of of choice,
you know I'm choosing more oftento hear other people's opinions
on things.
I'm choosing to be open to alot more learning than I would
have been if I hadn't gone onthis trajectory with my life.
Fiona Kane (52:47):
Yes.
Monique Peters (52:48):
You know, and I really enjoy that because I
think that's one of the thingsthat keep us young, definitely.
But I don't mind getting oldeither.
Fiona Kane (52:57):
And other opinions are really important because I
know myself look, we do get abit bogged down in.
We have a certain belief or wethink that we're right about
things.
Everyone does that.
It's normal that we do that toan extent.
However, I actually find it'sreally useful to hear the other
side and it can do a number ofthings.
Maybe it changes nothing, Maybeyou learn more about why you
(53:22):
think you're right, maybe youlearn more about why the other
person doesn't understand you orwhy you don't understand them.
Or maybe you actually changeyour mind about something or a
part of something.
So any of those things canhappen and they're all used.
They can all be useful.
That's right.
Monique Peters (53:40):
So it's still worth hearing the other opinion
yeah, growth is such a wonderfulthing.
Um, yeah, it's when we we don'tgrow that well, we get stagnant
.
Yeah, yeah exactly, exactly,you know it's.
But I think we're starting tounderstand that neurobiology of
(54:00):
these things now, like we'vetalked about these things for a
long, long, long time now, butunderstanding how much of our
brain changes with our choices,that there's a physical change
going on and we're driving thatchange with every choice that we
make.
Fiona Kane (54:19):
it's so empowering, you know and I think, too, one
thing that's worth mentioningthat I thought of before and
then it dropped out, dropped outof my brain, it came back is
the importance of reading toyour children, like from birth,
pretty much reading to themevery day and talking to them,
(54:40):
because when you, or even likeyou, were talking about watching
movies and talking about moviesand that kind of thing, or
whether it's going to look atart or something, whatever it is
, but when you read books toyour children, they're going to
ask questions and it gives youthe opportunity to talk about
morals and ethics and all ofthose kind of important stories.
So they might seem like astupid thing reading whatever
(55:03):
the book is, but there'sactually often lots of
opportunities within a book todiscuss moral dilemmas and those
kinds of things, and not justopportunities.
Monique Peters (55:11):
There is also.
You are wiring their brain forlearning later.
Yes, and I know of a lot ofchildren now that are starting
school without ever having hearda nursery rhyme and they're
missing out on that amazingalliteration that developed that
phonemic map I was talkingabout before.
Fiona Kane (55:29):
Yeah, All those neural pathways, all the
opportunity, all those neuralpathways, so many of them happen
from zero to five zero to fiveis where it's happening.
So those children need to be andyou just need to be talking to
them all of the time.
Yeah, and that's just, and it'sexhausting.
That's that's how it is, but itliterally is, you know.
(55:50):
So now we're going to make somebreakfast and let's go and put
we'll just put the garbage outfirst, or let's go and feed the
dog or whatever but it's thattalking constantly to that child
that teaches them language.
Monique Peters (56:01):
That's right and also teaching them.
And the baby talk is also veryimportant.
You know that repeating andusing the higher pitch and
that's so good for their nervoussystem.
It relaxes them, it makes themfeel safe.
Fiona Kane (56:14):
They.
That's so good for their nervoussystem.
It relaxes them, it makes themfeel safe, they know they're
safe and then it's like thefacial expressions and then,
even when they you know, it'sreally fun when they're really
small and they first startsitting at a table with adults
and the adults are talking andthey mimic the sounds because
they want to be part of it.
(56:35):
They're not really saying anywords, but they go
da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da atwork there and, yes, exactly,
it's a very big part of how welearn to survive.
It is so I think it's reallyimportant that because I don't
think that we're always noteveryone's taught this, not
everyone understands this nojudgment on anyone but it's just
really important to know thatreally just having that
interaction, just talking tochildren, talking all the time
and reading the books andtalking and discussing things
and observing things, but thatconstant uh, that constant talk
and being and sitting at thetable and eating together and
(56:56):
talking together at the table,not watching, using devices and
stuff that's actually vital forhow all of these neural pathways
develop.
That will affect them for therest of their lives.
So really I can't emphasiseenough how important that is.
Monique Peters (57:09):
But I also want to add, if I may, about how
neuroplastic the adult brain is,so talking about language and
everything.
So this is probably a bit funny.
Um, I love singing in French.
It was something that my mumloved to do and and I love to do
it in the car.
It's just something I can dowhile I'm traveling and moving
and and living a very busy life,but I can put the music on and
(57:32):
I can learn to sing in French,and I'm just doing it by hearing
and mimicking what I'm hearing,because obviously I'm
concentrating on driving as well, and quite a few goes into this
.
One particular song that I waslearning.
I dreamt about it one night andI thought, now, how cool is
that?
Because there has to actuallybe a physical part of my brain
(57:56):
there now that is doing this,for me to be able to dream about
it at night.
How interesting is that so I'min my 50s, I don't mind saying
so that neuroplasticity in ourbrain is still very, very active
.
It's just we've got to work abit harder as adults to do it
than we did as children.
Yes, but we work a bit harderas adults to do it than we did
as children.
So yes, and whatever you'reconnecting ourselves to be able
(58:18):
to do whatever you have orhaven't done before, you can
still do something.
Fiona Kane (58:22):
Now there's there's always, there's always something
you can do, so so is thereanything before I wind up, is
there anything in particularthat you feel like that you
haven't said?
That's really important forthis conversation.
Monique Peters (58:36):
Thank you, thank you.
So it's probably the reason whyI decided to do all this, and
that was because I know thatthere are so many children
sitting in classrooms out there.
They're as confused as my sonwas.
They don't know what's going on, they don't know why, they
don't understand, they don'tknow why reading is so difficult
for them.
Please get in touch with me.
(58:58):
You know there is something wecan do about it With my program.
You don't need a diagnosis, youdon't need assessments, you
don't need anything like that.
It's just basically yourdecision to jump on and keep
going.
You probably need three to sixmonths, um to see good results.
Fiona Kane (59:17):
Yes, it does take work and that and that will keep
them, that will build them upwhile, while they're waiting for
a diagnosis anyway, so it won'tinterfere in any way.
It will just get them on, youknow, on the right path, and get
them moving, moving forward.
Therapy does start, they getbenefits from it quicker yes,
yeah, so they don't need to waitfor the diagnosis to start
(59:37):
doing something about theseneural pathways that's right.
Monique Peters (59:40):
That's right.
So for the kids out there, it's, it's um.
Yeah, I just my heart breakswhen I think of the children out
there that are, you know,because you don't know what
choices they're making later inlife.
Because of this, yes, yeah,yeah.
Fiona Kane (59:55):
Well, being able to communicate well and think
things through and criticallythink and all of those things,
they're all really important,and I think those neural
pathways and those languageskills are a really huge part of
that, aren't they?
Monique Peters (01:00:08):
They are big.
Fiona Kane (01:00:11):
So I will put all of your links and things in the
show notes, but is there aparticular website or some way
that you would like to sendpeople to?
Uh?
Monique Peters (01:00:19):
yes, just www.
learnerobics.
com.
au.
And um, yeah, have a read, um,and there's a form there that
you can fill out and book sometime and chat with me.
Ask me anything.
I love talking.
Fiona Kane (01:00:37):
As do I, which is why, if we're not careful, we'll
do a two-hour episode.
So thank you so much for today,Monique.
It was really interestingtalking about this, so thanks
for coming on today.
Monique Peters (01:00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
All the best everybody.
Fiona Kane (01:00:53):
And for those of you at home, can you please
remember to like, subscribe,share.
Remember that we're on YouTubeand Rumble if you want to watch
this video, or you can justlisten on all of the usual
places, but please tell peopleabout this podcast so more
people will learn about allthese valuable things that I get
to learn from my guests.
It's the first guest I've hadin a while, so it is really good
(01:01:15):
to have someone to chat to andto learn something new.
So thanks again and I will seeyou all next week.
Thanks everyone, Bye.
Monique Peters (01:01:25):
Bye.
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
with Fiona Kane.
I'm your host, Fiona Kane.
Today I've got an interestingtopic, I've got a guest and
we're going to be talking aboutlearning challenges, auditory
processing disorder and theneuroscience which is helping us
understand what is going on.
So my guest is Monique Peters.
(00:22):
Hi, Monique.
Monique Peters (00:23):
Hi, Hi Fiona, Hi everybody, Hi everybody.
Fiona Kane (00:27):
So introduce yourself, let us know who you
are.
Monique Peters (00:30):
Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me
on the podcast today.
I learned all about learningchallenges and auditory
processing disorder through myson's learning challenges.
He's 22 now and he's doing muchbetter than I thought he was
going to.
For many years I was worried,very, very worried about how he
(00:50):
would be able to survive as anadult.
And I needn't have worried,because I read a book called the
Brain that Changes Itself by DrNorman Doidge, and that changed
my whole life, changed myunderstanding of everything that
was going on, and since thenI've been on an incredible
journey.
I started my own businesstrying to help other children
(01:12):
and other parents with the sameproblems so that was about six
years ago now, okay, and I havebeen learning an awful lot and
I've been undertaking somereally amazing personal
development since then.
Fiona Kane (01:25):
Yes, yeah, yeah, definitely.
So it's been a six-year journeyfor you.
Would you like to expand at allon that journey or what was
going on in that time?
Or even sort of things like howdid you recognise there was an
issue?
All those kinds of things giveus a bit more information about
what that journey entailed.
Monique Peters (01:42):
Okay, so really quite interesting.
So hindsight has given me as Ilook back, there were signs that
I didn't really recognisebefore that he was struggling.
So he developed a stutterovernight, when he was three,
just before starting preschool,and he just said one morning I
(02:03):
can't, can't, can't talk, and ofcourse my husband I can't talk.
And of course my husband and Iwere very worried.
We eventually got him intospeech therapy and they had an
amazing program called theLidcombe Program and his stutter
was gone within three to fourmonths.
Fiona Kane (02:19):
What was the program called?
Sorry, I missed that, just incase.
Monique Peters (02:22):
It's called the Lidcombe Program, so it's
offered by a lot of speechpathologists.
It is australian and it doesactually come from the.
The thing is the university oftechnology or the university of
sydney at lidcombe and that'swhy it's called the lidcombe
program.
But it's an amazing program foryoung children who have
stutters and um.
So we thought with that passingthat that was over.
(02:44):
We thought, okay, that was that, let's move into.
You know he was soon startingschool and so on.
But he started on par witheverybody else at school.
But as school became morecomplicated so especially as
they started to read, he fellfurther and further behind and
by year two and three he justwasn't keeping up with the
(03:06):
others at all.
There were social problemsstarting as well, a lot of
misunderstanding.
Just a really crazy time forhim, very confusing for him and
for me too, because I wasn'tsure how we could help him.
He had an assessment and he hadmarkers for autism and ADHD,
(03:27):
but not enough for a diagnosisand in those days it was before
NDIS, so he couldn't get anyhelp at school Without a
diagnosis.
He wasn't allowed to have anyhelp at school, which was really
.
Fiona Kane (03:38):
For those listening.
In Australia, the NDIS is ourNational Disability Insurance
Scheme, so that's only beenaround for the last few years
and that is very useful forpeople dealing with these issues
.
So I thought I'd insert that,because not everyone who listens
or watches is in Australia.
So that's just our version ofan insurance scheme for these
(04:01):
issues.
Monique Peters (04:02):
Thank you, Fiona .
Yes, because we didn't havethat um back then and in the
school he wasn't getting thehelp and support that I thought
he needed.
So he was, by that stage, uh,writing things out of sequence.
Um, he couldn't kind ofsequence a story properly.
He really wasn't understandingmuch of what was going on at all
.
And, um, I was trying so hard,like we had him in speech
(04:26):
therapy, we I gave him, uh,behavioral optometry, there were
all sorts of things that wewere doing.
I would see a integrativemedicine doctor, um, and he took
him off gluten, dairy, we weretaking digestive enzymes and all
sorts of things, but nothingreally seemed to be.
Everything was helping in asmall way, but there was nothing
(04:48):
that was really happening.
And then when I read the bookthe Brain that Changes Itself, I
read about Dr Michael Merzenich, I read about auditory
processing disorder and, mostexcitingly, about the
neuroscience that is,understanding how the brain
learns and how we can actuallyovercome many learning
(05:11):
challenges and many other braininjury challenges and all sorts
of things as well, and it justreally opened up my eyes to what
was going on.
There was a program in the book.
It was called Fast Forward, andI got that program from my son.
There was a company inAustralia that I could buy it
from.
So she was a speech therapist,self-speech pathologist and and
(05:37):
oh my goodness, his speechpattern normalized.
So it's kind of hard to explain.
He a funny way of speaking.
It was kind of like his own wayof speaking in different
inflections and differentemphasis on different things.
It wasn't quite within thenormal pattern.
It was kind of cute, but it waskind of losing that cuteness as
(05:59):
well as he was heading towardshigh school yeah, it's cute when
they're little, but as they getolder that that could be really
really challenging for them.
That's right yeah, and then withthe social challenges getting
worse and worse, like I say, hewas just constantly being
bullied.
By this stage he was having aterrible time at school.
He was trying to find he was agood kid and he was quite
(06:20):
compliant and everything andwould go to school, but he was
trying to find ways to avoid itas much as he possibly could.
You know he was getting sick, alot things like that and how
long did it take?
Fiona Kane (06:32):
because there's all this time, because it's been
sort of this six-year journey,but you said that it was when
you, when you, finallydiscovered that book.
How long had it been that youwere having these challenges
until?
Monique Peters (06:44):
you discovered the book Probably from year two.
I was getting really concerned.
Fiona Kane (06:49):
So that's about seven years old.
Monique Peters (06:53):
Yes, it was about seven, and then I didn't
read the book until he was inyear six, so he was 12 then.
Fiona Kane (07:00):
Okay, all right.
So it took quite a while.
So all those, other things youwere exploring along the way.
It took quite a while beforeyou found this book that changed
everything.
Monique Peters (07:09):
Yeah, and I was losing sleep every night because
I was worrying what can I do?
And I was constantly Googling.
I know a lot of mothers sharethis particular part of the
journey.
We're always trying to find thething that's going to make the
difference because we don't wantour children to be bullied.
It's really hard to send themto school when you know they're
(07:29):
going to be bullied.
That was what was reallybothering me.
So buying the program was anincredible experience because
the work that you do it's veryrepetitive, using the
neuroscience and understandingthose principles of
(07:50):
neuroplasticity where you needthe repetition, but at a much
more basic level than isavailable on any other reading
program.
So it really gets to work onchildren being able to clearly
hear the difference betweenspeech sounds.
You know so that at the cut.
But if you can imagine,auditory processing disorder
(08:13):
often comes across as a hearingproblem, but these kids will
pass hearing tests becausethat's actually based on volume.
Fiona Kane (08:20):
Yes.
Monique Peters (08:20):
But this is how fast the brain can process those
sounds.
And if it can't hear thedifference clearly between
things like but and perp, or chand sh but there's many others
that commonly get mixed up thenthe brain can't form a proper
map of those sounds.
And it's when we're reading,when we're writing, when we're
(08:41):
talking, we're accessing thatphonemic map all the time.
And if that's not clearlymapped then it's very difficult
for the brain to sequence andprocess the sound and do all the
things that it needs to do togive us meaning from what we're
hearing and from what we'rereading.
Fiona Kane (08:58):
So that's auditory processing disorder.
So I had an awareness around itbecause I had someone I knew a
few years back who, like yousaid, I thought that this person
was deaf or partly deaf,because that's how it seemed
they just weren't hearing thingsand didn't seem to be
(09:19):
understanding or didn't seem tobe taking part.
And I'm aware that I think forthis person I don't want to say
who it is because I want to keepa person's privacy but for that
person, I think, when they werevery young and they were trying
to get help, there wasdefinitely no, I don't think
there was even a diagnosis forthat or there was no
understanding of that.
(09:40):
And so, as you were justexplaining, then it's not so
much whether you hear, you canhear, but it's whether or not
your brain can comprehend orunderstand or, like you said,
understand those certain soundswell, it's hearing the
difference between the littlephonemes.
Monique Peters (09:59):
Um, so what's a?
Fiona Kane (10:00):
phoneme.
Come on, tell us let's getdrilled right down, because not
everyone knows this language.
Monique Peters (10:06):
So a phoneme is the basic unit of language.
So it's the at the k, de, f, g.
Fiona Kane (10:13):
Okay.
Monique Peters (10:16):
And this is why, with the science of reading,
now we're actually returning inreading instruction in schools
to phonetics.
Yes, we're bringing that back.
Fiona Kane (10:22):
Why have we ever stopped that?
Don't even get me started onthat.
That's ridiculous, but anyway,at least we're going back there.
Monique Peters (10:29):
That's good.
We were bored for a littlewhile there Well
well-intentioned, because wewanted to make the reading very
exciting for the children.
And the phonetics going throughthe phonetics is quite boring,
but our brain actually does needto have that experience and
that repetition to build up thatclear phonemic map.
Fiona Kane (10:47):
Okay.
Monique Peters (10:48):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (10:49):
Auditory processing disorder.
The people can't tell thedifference between those sounds.
Monique Peters (10:55):
Not clearly, and it's on a spectrum itself.
So you can have it severe andnot so severe.
I've worked out from my son'sjourney that I have it to a
degree, but I never realised it.
So I may be on a bit of aspectrum as well with dyslexia,
because neurodiversity it's allpart of the same group of things
(11:18):
that are in that milieu ofthings going on.
But, I have trouble with my leftand right, but I never had any
learning challenges, so you knowthere's varying degrees of all
of this.
But yeah, it's just interestingwhen you realise how hard the
brain is actually working tocreate meaning, both from what
(11:40):
we're hearing and reading.
There's an awful lot going on,so that phonemic map really
needs to be clear before you canstart matching letters to
sounds, which is that decodingprocess of reading.
Okay, children can't hear thedifference clearly between a
(12:00):
sound, and I hear it with someof the students that I work with
now.
They're saying et instead of eh, so they're repeating what
they're hearing.
They're hearing eh, but thesound is eh.
Fiona Kane (12:11):
Yes.
Monique Peters (12:12):
So this fast-forward program gives them
a lot of repetition at hearingthose differences clearly and
making those clear distinctionsbetween them.
So someone with auditoryprocessing disorder are the ones
that will say hopsital insteadof hospital or ask.
Fiona Kane (12:31):
Oh, okay.
Monique Peters (12:33):
Because that's the sequencing side of things.
They're just.
Things are getting out ofsequence there somewhere.
Fiona Kane (12:41):
Okay, and so I just had a question on the tip of my
tongue.
What was it?
I?
What I wanted to know is withokay, so with the auditory
processing disorder, with that,that practice that you were just
talking about, practicing thosesounds, is that building new
neural pathways?
(13:01):
Is that what it does?
Is that what you're trying todo?
Monique Peters (13:04):
It's building more connections.
Fiona Kane (13:06):
Yeah, which is the?
Monique Peters (13:07):
part of the process.
Yeah with auditory processing,so with children who are
struggling to read.
Many will struggle at first, soeverybody needs varying degrees
of repetition to get over thoselittle hurdles.
Reading, we have to remember,is a very recent thing,
evolutionary speaking yeah so,and our brain was actually never
(13:28):
meant to read.
It was never.
It was never evolved or createdto read.
We make it do that and ourwhole survival of our culture
has depended on that, which Ifind really exciting to to
explore that, um, but it's notsomething that our brain was
evolved to do, and the fact thatit does is neuroplasticity at
(13:48):
work.
Really, every day, our brain isbuilding connections and things
to help us become moreefficient at the things we are
repeating, because when we'rerepeating something, that's how
we tell our brain.
This is important.
We need to get good at this.
So let's repeat this, let'sbuild those connections to make
(14:09):
it more efficient in your brain,and we always see that process
as grace.
So if, for example, you'rewatching a child learning how to
play piano and at first theirelbows might be up and their
fingers in the wrong place,sometimes their face even, you
know, got contortions and allsorts of things, that's because
the neural network is notrefined yet and through the
(14:32):
process of practice, it learnsto refine all that.
So we see it as grace.
And it's the same with languagewe become more eloquent with
language as we practice it moreand more.
Fiona Kane (14:44):
Yeah.
Monique Peters (14:44):
Okay, yeah.
Fiona Kane (14:45):
Okay, yeah, so when I talk about neural pathways, I
will tell you the way I explainit and you can tell me if you've
got a different way ofexplaining it, because I think
everyone just learns their wayof explaining it to people.
But when I talk about neuralpathways, I always talk about
the difference between, say,when a baby is born and when a
giraffe is born.
So when a giraffe is born, theyalready pretty much can stand
(15:08):
up almost straight away.
Yeah, and they're walkingpretty much straight away
because they need to be right.
Yes, when a human baby is bornbecause we've actually got such
large brains and if we got tofull size completely, no woman
would ever be able to give birthwhat we do is we sort of say,
(15:34):
all right, we can't have all thepathways built before the baby
is born, so those pathways, theconnection of how to walk and
talk and many things, so thosepathways, the connection of how
to walk and talk and many things, will come after the baby is
born.
So when the baby is born, andyou know, first of all it's like
learning to hold their head up,you know, and they get the neck
muscles strong enough to holdtheir head up and then they're
(15:54):
doing like tummy time and theirhead up, and then they're
rolling and then they'recrawling and then eventually
trying to stand and falling over70 million times and then
eventually walking.
But all of those stages arewhat builds the neural pathway
between kind of the muscles andthe arms and the legs and
everything and the brain.
So that's how I describe whatbuilding a neural pathway looks
(16:17):
like, and you were explaining itjust then in whether it's
learning to speak, learning toplay the piano, learning to do a
sport, learning to sing,whatever it is.
So have you got sort of yourway of explaining that neural
pathways?
Because I think it's good toexplain it really well, because
once you kind of understand that, there's a lot you can
understand after that.
Monique Peters (16:36):
Yes, so I learnt to get away from the scientific
explanation of it very early onin the piece, because I would
kind of see people's eyes glazeover, and you know this.
I kind of see people's eyesglaze over, and you know this is
kind of so.
The best way I find it is abouttalking about the repetition.
So whenever we repeat something, that's we're telling our brain
(16:57):
that this is important to us.
I need to get good at this.
You lay down the pathways tomake those electrical signals
travel faster, to make thingsmore efficient, and we'll both
get the benefit of that.
Like, basically, I'll survive.
Fiona Kane (17:16):
Yes, because it's all.
Monique Peters (17:17):
Everything we do is built around our survival.
We kind of forget that a littlebit these days because we're so
comfortable in our lovely homesand everything, but it's really
all about our survival.
So even the traffic that comesfrom our body, all the sensory
stuff that comes from our body,goes up our spine, through our
(17:39):
nervous system, up through ourspine into the amygygdala, which
is all about our survival.
You know, that's where ourbreathing is hardwired, our
heartbeat, everything that weneed for survival is more or
less hardwired in there.
Um, and that that's where thefear comes into things, where
fear is our most basic.
You know, one of our most basicemotions, probably the most
(18:03):
basic emotion, and that's whatseems to drive everything else.
So if you look at the anatomyof the brain, it then goes
through, you know, the feelingsort of side of things, and then
to the prefrontal cortex, whichis the human rational planning
and all that sort of thing.
So all those emotions,especially fear, we feel first
(18:25):
Our brain.
It goes through a process first.
Yeah, I think that's a good wayof explaining it.
I love the repetition becausethat makes sense to a lot of
people.
So it's kind of how we buildthe bad habits, good habits, how
we change habits, those sort ofthings.
But we've also got nature andnurture going on.
So there's what you're bornwith and then there's what we
(18:50):
wire in response to ourenvironment.
So, as far as language, thehuman brain is very, very
sensitive to language, becausethat's how we've learned to
communicate, cooperate andsurvive, and I think that's been
how we've survived so well isbecause we have learned more or
less to cooperate and languagehas been a very big part of that
(19:12):
.
And language has been a verybig part of that.
Um, but my brain is kind of,for example, half-wired in dutch
and half-wired in english.
Well, okay, probably moretowards the english side, but,
um, I've got some dutch therebecause my family is dutch and I
listened to dutch as a childand so do you think in english,
or do you think I think in?
English.
Fiona Kane (19:30):
Yes, I do think in english I've got a greek friend
who grew up in Australia but shethinks in Greek.
Monique Peters (19:37):
There you go.
Fiona Kane (19:39):
She went to Aussie school and Greek school and she
was involved in the church andall of that.
I'd never thought about itbefore.
Because I'm English, I used tospeak English and Australian.
Monique Peters (19:50):
Well, then you spend your formative years.
It's so important becausethat's your first language and,
as you know, your first languageis always.
I remember my grandmother, forexample.
She came to Australia speakingDutch.
She learned English while shewas here.
She had a stroke in her late70s, so it was obvious, you know
(20:12):
, she reverted back back toDutch, but she actually had
another stroke later and shereverted back to English.
She lost a lot of her Dutch,which I thought was a
fascinating process, and I seethat now with.
I have a couple of peoplearound me with dementia and I
see that with their memory.
You know, their memory is indifferent time zones.
(20:34):
You know, sometimes theyremember something from the
recent past and they mightforget something from their
childhood.
It's more likely that theyremember something from their
childhood as that goes last, butagain, that's because it's
deeper in the brain.
Fiona Kane (20:48):
But yeah, Getting up and getting ready for work or
something like that from a jobthey were in 30 years ago.
Monique Peters (20:54):
That kind of thing.
That's it, yeah, and have youheard of those people?
Fiona Kane (20:57):
There's people who have people have come out of,
woken up from a coma and theyspeak a different language.
Have you heard of those onesbefore?
And the language that theynever spoke before they wake up
and you know they're English orsomething and they're speaking
Chinese or something like thathow crazy is that.
Monique Peters (21:16):
I actually met a fellow who, um, he's a tradie
and I thought he was Irish, buthe wasn't.
He had a brain injury and hewoke up with an Irish accent
this is crazy, I don't.
How does that?
Fiona Kane (21:30):
even I don't, even, I can't even begin to understand
how that happens something withit.
We even begin to understand howthat happens.
Monique Peters (21:34):
That's something that we would love to explore
because it is very interesting,very, very interesting.
But I do love to talk aboutneuroplasticity as our brain's
ability to adapt and survive toour situation.
You know, and thank heavens,that it is that nature and
nurture and that we can adapt tothings.
You know and thank heavens thatit is that nature and nurture,
(21:56):
um, and that we can adapt tothings.
You know, so, um, like I wastalking about before the the
professional development thatI've undergone as I've gone into
business um you know I I wasfrightened of doing videos.
Uh, in the very beginning, youknow, just oh and well, I'm
still a little bit nervous.
Now I'm a lot more relaxed thanI used to be and it's much
(22:18):
easier to have a conversation,you know, and I love how skills
develop confidence you know, andI love talking about that with
my kids, you know, because themore they can do, the more
capable and confident they feel.
Fiona Kane (22:34):
Yeah, and I think for a lot of us I mean the video
more they can do, the morecapable and confident they feel.
Yeah, and I think for a lot ofus I mean the video thing is a
really really common thing.
Video or public speaking, allthat kind of stuff, really
common fears, and so that's fora lot of people that's true.
And with videos I found withmyself I started doing Facebook
Live videos very regularly.
After a while it just becamenormal for me to do it and
(22:56):
Facebook would always save.
Like you know, when you scrollthrough and you see the video
there, it would always save it.
If you're in some weird position, that's how YouTube will save
it.
Now, because I've just done aweird movement but like so I got
used to just really weirdlooking like seeing my face look
really weird and all that kindof stuff and just seeing myself
because it's funny, because wedon't see ourselves all of the
(23:19):
time, we oh, and it's likethat's what everyone sees you
all the time, that's what youlook like.
So sometimes you've just got tokind of get get over that and
um and move on.
But what you're saying there,that that process of you saying
I just got used to it, that'syour neural network yeah making
it happen for you, yeah yeah,yeah, yeah and but in regards to
(23:41):
the uh, god, this is my brain,this is an old person's brain
trying to work.
I've got, I've got as listenerswould know I've got some brain
damage.
So sometimes I I lose access tocertain words or I just have a
moment.
That's okay, I'm having amoment.
I had a question about that.
I had a question in regards toyou were talking about building
(24:04):
new neural pathways and we weretalking about languages, and
it'll come back.
If we just continue on withsomething else, I'm sure it will
come back to me, to me.
I can't remember what it was,but it was just on the tip of my
tongue and it's, it's goneanyway.
So, in regards toneuroplasticity, um, oh, yeah, I
(24:24):
think that's it.
It's just like it's justsitting on the edge.
It's sitting on the edge.
As soon as I said that word, itstarted to come back in, but
it's still not quite coming backin, uh, in regards to that.
So, again with neuroplasticity,it's actually about your
brain's ability to be sort offlexible and to adapt and to
(24:45):
learn, and that's essentiallywhat that means, or have I got
that wrong?
Monique Peters (24:50):
Basically, yeah, but we can actually drive it,
yes.
So with the kids that I workwith, um and it is mainly
children, although I have workedwith um, a couple of people who
have had a stroke um, andthey've, you know, working on
their language function andbeing able to find those words
and yes, and things like that.
(25:10):
Um, so we know that if we placea consistent demand on the brain
to whether it's improvingattention.
So the pillars that I work withare attention, memory, language
processing and sequencing forreading and language skills, but
then also mindset.
So by the time they come to me,they're usually the typical.
(25:32):
My typical client would beprobably in year three or year
four and they're already veryresistant to learning because we
were talking before about fearand things like that.
When they're sitting in aclassroom and they're not
reading as well as they want tobe, as well as the other
children, they soon shut downand they're just trying to
protect themselves from apainful experience.
(25:53):
You know, they're not lazy,they're not this, they're just
trying to protect themselvesfrom a painful experience, you
know they're not lazy, they'renot this, they're not that.
They really are just trying toprotect themselves from
something horrible.
Fiona Kane (26:03):
Yes yeah.
Monique Peters (26:05):
So while the program that I do puts a demand
on their attention, their memory, their language processing
skills and their mindset, youhave to start from where they're
at, you know, and you have tobuild that.
And because they're used tosaying something to themselves
(26:28):
like I can't do this, I don'twant to do this, I hate this, I
can't do this, I don't want todo this, I hate this.
Changing that language is a bigpart of things.
So what I like to do is isgrowth mindset coaching.
So where we start to say,instead of I can't do that, we
change that to I can't do it yetyes, yeah, my listeners would
be very familiar with that.
Fiona Kane (26:49):
I talk a lot about language on this and absolutely
that All of the can't, won't,don't, whatever.
That language is not helpful atall.
No, and it's not about lying.
It's not saying oh, I'm reallygreat at something and I'm not,
because your brain won't believethat, but you've got to leave a
door open, and the door open isyet.
Monique Peters (27:10):
Yes, I haven't done it before however, it's an
absolutely beautiful word andit's when you think about it,
your um, you are, uh, yourthoughts are also wiring your
brain, so you're saying I can't,I can't, I can't.
You're actually wiring aphysical structure in your brain
(27:31):
to make that a reality, becauseyour brain won't process just
what's good, your neuralpathways won't build just what's
good.
You actually are in control ofthat, so you are the one that
wires your brain with yourthoughts, and if you choose
negative thoughts, then you'rewiring a negative thought brain.
Fiona Kane (27:50):
Yes, I see it with nutrition all of the time.
So I'll have someone who triedpeas when they were four years
old.
They're 65 now and they'venever tried peas again and they
say things like I don't eatvegetables.
That's a very broad category.
There's not one singlevegetable that you might like or
(28:14):
that you could eat, and it'skind of once they've decided
that that's a not, that's not athing, they literally it's like
closing down a big shutter yeahin their brain and their brain
just no longer entertains it.
That's right, and it's like done, finished, gone.
And so again I sort of say topeople, maybe you've never found
(28:35):
a vegetable you like, so youcan say I've never found a
vegetable I like.
Never know, I might one day.
At least that's somewhat open,but they've kind of got it
jammed closed.
Monique Peters (28:46):
Well, and the belief system comes into that as
well.
Yeah, so my beautiful father.
He's 91, and he refuses to eatsomething as beautiful as
pumpkin soup, because pumpkinswere chicken food for him when
they were children.
Fiona Kane (29:00):
Oh, okay, I suppose you've got to.
I mean, when you look atcultures and stuff like that, I
was listening to a podcast thismorning and they were talking
about how, when you go to Asia,they eat dogs and they eat bugs
and they eat cockroaches, theyeat tarantulas.
When I was in Vietnam, theywere eating tarantulas and
cockroaches.
(29:20):
So I suppose it is a culturalthing too that we have different
things in our mind that we seeas food or not food or whatever.
Monique Peters (29:29):
Well, again, if I can bring it back down to that
, brain plasticity, as we'regrowing up in our culture, we
are told all the time that thisis not just how we do this, but
the process in our brain issaying this is what's familiar,
this is where you survive, thisis what's familiar.
(29:49):
You will always want to comeback to this because this is
what has been wired in and thisis what's familiar.
And we spend the rest of ourlives trying to undo those sorts
of things that we learned aschildren.
You know, and that's what lifeis about.
That's exciting, actually.
We learn to question what welearned and we take on new
(30:10):
beliefs, but what's at our heart, what happens to us as children
, remains with us.
Fiona Kane (30:18):
Yeah, yeah, it does, and that's actually so while
you were talking before, I didremember what I was thinking of
before that I just couldn'tquite find, and what it was is.
It was about the.
I just forgot it again while Iwas talking.
I wrote it down so I wouldn'tforget.
Monique Peters (30:33):
I don't really do programs like this.
I wrote it down so I wouldn'tforget.
I don't really do programs.
Fiona Kane (30:36):
I wrote it down because it's terrible.
I was like I can say it 100times in 101, I can't remember,
but it was actually aboutfailure, right.
So a lot of what we were justtalking about for the last few
minutes is actually about thatfear of failure.
And you were sort of talkingthen about how we do.
We find, obviously we figureout how to survive in our life
(30:58):
and whatever that looks like inour family of origin, different
for different people.
It might be about getting oneparent or the other parent on
side, or both of them, or itmight be about surviving in
other ways to do with.
I don't know where you are andwhat your customs are and all
the rest of it, but we do learnabsolute survival and it is all
(31:18):
about survival and what I'velearned from my friend, linda
Campbell, who's a hypnotherapist.
She said that we're one-timelearners and essentially what
that means is that when you ababy or as a child, when you
sort of touch something hot andyou burn your hand or a dog
(31:39):
bites you or something, youlearn very quickly that hot
stuff is very painful or dogbites are very painful and scary
, whatever, and because we'reone-time learners, then we
usually won't ever put our handon the hot thing again, or you
won't kind of, you know, pull ona dog's tail or whatever it is
that provoked the dog, right?
(32:00):
So the good thing is we'reone-time learners and that is
why we survive.
The bad thing is, we'reone-time learners and so we have
a very clear in our brain, kindof we develop that sort of
saying okay, so to be safe, wehave to stay away from all dogs
and you know, we have to stayaway from all hot things or
(32:22):
whatever it is.
But we develop all of the rulesin our brain for staying safe
and, depending on what happensto you will depend on what
staying safe in your brain, whatit means, right, and the
one-time learner thing meansthat that thing is no longer
safe.
So, yes, we're always trying tokeep ourselves safe, because
survival is the biggest thingthat we need to do.
(32:44):
We need to survive.
Monique Peters (32:45):
That's right.
Fiona Kane (32:47):
And so, then, that's what leads to that absolute
fear of going outside of ourcomfort zone and being prepared
to be real bad at something.
Yes, for a long time.
Yes, oh yeah, until you're goodat it yes and so that that's
kind of biggest fear foreveryone.
Really, it's like it's we can'tsort of push or we can't wrong
(33:09):
word, we don't push throughthose comfort zones, and a lot
of it it relates to fear that'sright, um, and so in some of the
talks that I've been doing, Iwill talk about that fear.
Monique Peters (33:21):
Um, I'm thinking of a post that I did recently
where I um, put it.
It was a cartoon thank goodnessai can draw these things better
than I can so it was a girlwith a big lion next to her, but
there was a sheet of glass inbetween, so they were like at a
zoo and she was able to standthere and observe him very
(33:41):
closely without feeling like hewas going to jump through and
attack her, and I think it's avery powerful picture, and I
used it to talk about how, youknow, if a child is being
bullied at school, it actuallyfeels like they are being hunted
.
Yes, that is how it feels, andso we minimise that and say, oh
(34:04):
no, they won't.
You know, that's all very well,but that's how it feels Now.
Then what do we do?
So those feelings can be veryintense and very, extremely real
.
But then what do we do?
So those feelings can be veryintense and very, extremely real
, but then what do we do with it?
So you know when we can givethe child some strategies and so
on and build safety that way,and we have to make those
(34:25):
strategies familiar, becauseremember that using strategies
is a prefrontal cortex thingwith which most people don't
have a full, you know, a fullreasonable ability until they're
26, 27, 30, so as far as alittle child is concerned, they
then you know.
So they need to have practiceat those using those strategies
(34:47):
and building their confidence isprobably one of the better
things, better strategies in inthat sort of situation, because
when they're feeling confidentwith themselves they seem to
attract less bullies.
Fiona Kane (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, and it really is.
It's about actually learningthat you can survive stuff and
that you will be okay.
Yes, and the other thing too is, I think, at that age, which is
why it's a whole other topic,but why I have such a big
problem with children makingreally big decisions,
life-changing decisions, becauseI just don't think that their
(35:22):
brain is developed enough forthem to do that.
But when you oh, now I've lostmy train of thought I was
talking about children makingdecisions and that's where I was
going, me and my brain, talkingabout neuroplasticity, me and
(35:42):
my brain About knowing, when Italk to kids, when I talk to
school kids, what I tell them isI don't care about anything
that happened at my school, andI haven't since the day I left
it right, it means nothing to me, it means less than nothing to
(36:06):
me, pretty much.
And and like it doesn't matter,school just one day, school
just doesn't matter, even yourmarks and things like that.
Like of course, it's nice toget good results and and you
know that kind of thing.
However, there is such a thingas as going like studying when
(36:27):
you're older and bridgingcourses and all the different
things you can do later on.
So if you even completely flunkout of school, it's not ideal,
but it's certainly not the endof the world.
So it's amazing how we havesuch a big, because when you're
there, I remember being that ageand it's just so big and it's
so, and school is pretty muchyour whole world.
(36:51):
When you're that age, andbecause it is your whole world
if it's going wrong, it feelslike it's the end of your whole
world.
When you're that age, andbecause it is your whole world
if it's going wrong, it feelslike it's the end of your whole
world.
When, really, in six months, 12months, two years, whatever it
is, it's going to be in the rearvision mirror and you simply
won't care, and so it's actually.
Obviously you can't.
You know old head on youngshoulders, that kind of thing,
(37:13):
but that's something that weknow to be absolutely true and
all you can do is reaffirm thatwith the kids.
But essentially it really is.
You will get more confidence inyourself and know that you, I
think we have to learn how to beanti-fragile.
Monique Peters (37:28):
We have to learn how to cope with things we
really do need to be challengeda lot more than we are.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I like to talk about
learning not just being a schoolthing.
So I love opening up mystudents' mind to the idea that
we learn from every conversationthat we have, from everything
(37:50):
we see, touch, feel, smell.
You know, we learn from ourfamily.
We learn from our family.
We learn from the television.
We learn from YouTube.
We learn from so many otherplaces.
I mean my son with his avoidingschool.
He never wanted to avoidlearning.
School was a horrible place forhim but he learned so much from
(38:12):
.
He loved to watch whatentrepreneurs were doing on
youtube and, go figure, he'sreally wants to start his own
business and he's well on hisway to doing that.
Um, you know, he's, um, hewould the things that we learned
from each other.
So we happen to connect reallywell.
On film study um, I happen to doa couple of units of film study
(38:34):
when I was doing a tertiarypreparation course at TAFE when
he was in preschool and I lovedthat subject.
It was such a good subject andwhen I started introducing him
to some concepts that we werewatching in movies, he would
start to pick up on things andhe said Mum, look, there's a
dawn of a new day and I feellike there's a dawn of a new day
(38:54):
and I feel like there's a newthing going on here in this
movie and I'd say, yes, that'sit.
Um, you know there's, there'sso much to learn.
Um, I was only talking theother day, uh, with a friend of
mine going into a nursing home,and I have very, very fond
memories.
My mother worked in a nursinghome back when.
(39:16):
It was an unqualified thing todo, but she happened to be a
very kind person and she lovedlooking after the older people
and we were able to stay thereat night if dad was working.
And I remember having wonderfulconversations with old people.
I remember Mrs Bunnell and Iremember Mrs Watt and Mrs Watt
(39:36):
used to have butterscotchlollies for us and you know, and
I remember learning so much andI was never afraid of old
people because I had that lovelyexperience, so that the idea of
older people became familiar tome.
So it wasn't a scary thingseeing know their skin, or you
know, or how they were suffering.
You know yes.
Fiona Kane (39:58):
I remember when I was a little, my great, great,
great, great, no greatgrandmother lived with us and I
just remember because I rememberI was about three or four and I
remember looking at her skinand she would have been in the
mid 80s and I just I justcouldn't believe it.
I just thought it was thecraziest thing I'd ever seen.
Yeah, but she was still alivefor a few years when I was first
(40:18):
born, and then I lived with mygrandmother for most of my young
life.
So, yes, I had the advantage ofbeing around older people as
well.
Yes, and I think it's actuallyreally important, and maybe
there's a few things in oursociety because when you're
talking about this, I'm kind ofthinking of a few things that
that are really causing more ofthe struggle now, and I think
(40:42):
one of them is that many of uswell, so many homes now both
parents need to work and, like,I'm not saying wrong, right,
should or shouldn't work, any ofthat.
That's a whole other topic.
However, it is different nowbecause many people have to work
and they don't get to spend asmuch time with the kids maybe.
And I know that when I wasyounger, I had my extended
(41:03):
family, so I had aunties anduncles and cousins and grandmas
and that kind of thing andthey're all really important
because they all play differentroles, they all have something
different to offer.
And then, if you add to thatthe level of now that so many
families don't connect with eachother and they spend all their
(41:23):
time on their devices separatelyand not the devices don't have,
obviously there's a lot ofeducational things and things
that devices can be used forthat are really beneficial.
However, being curious andtalking to lots of different
people, I don't think you canreplace that.
Monique Peters (41:45):
That's right and that can be really deep.
So remember when COVID camealong and everyone was battling
over toilet rolls and all thatsort of thing and my father
looked at me and he wasn'tstressed at all and I must admit
I was a little bit stressedbecause I was trying to get some
groceries together for him sothat he'd be well stopped for a
(42:07):
while.
Yes, and he looked at me andsaid what is everybody so
worried about?
And it was because hischildhood experience was being
in an internment camp.
You know, he was in Indonesia,he was a Dutch colonial and by
the time the Second World Warcame along he was probably six
years old and he's in aninternment camp which is
(42:31):
something like a concentrationcamp.
But you know, know, he wasimprisoned and, um, it had a
terrible few years there.
Um lost everything that wasfamiliar to him because, you
know, it then became indonesia.
So the dutch really weren'twelcome there anymore and um,
and they weren't reallyaltogether fully welcome in
(42:53):
Holland either because theylooked a bit different than the
normal Dutch people.
And so you know my dad had beenthrough a lot and many of these
Dutch colonials ended up inAustralia and New Zealand and
Canada and England, america.
A lot of his family went toAmerica.
(43:17):
But yeah, you know, he he was,and I also grew up listening.
So my mum comes from Holland,holland, and um, they just had
bombs going off in theirneighborhood during their
childhood.
You know, churches were blowingup here and there and so on and
, um, I grew up listening tothose stories.
But their stories were notabout the tragedy of it all,
(43:37):
because they were all kids.
It was about, oh remember whenwe found this piece of equipment
in this bomb thing, and theywould all laugh.
So there was a resilience thatcame with that as well, with
listening to those stories.
And I feel very privileged nowthat I'm old enough to
understand how good it was tohear that sort of stuff and that
(43:58):
they survived and that theystayed together and they still
loved one another through thisstuff.
Fiona Kane (44:05):
Yeah, and actually I heard I think it might have
been Dr Phil talking about thisthe other day.
I listen to so many podcasts Ican't remember which one, but he
was actually saying that it'simportant for if, if, a lot,
because so many of us are notconnected, maybe, to parents or
grandparents or whatever overtime, or we're not talking to
them, we're not hearing thosestories and it's actually really
(44:28):
important so for us tounderstand that we can survive,
it's important for us to hearother survival stories from
people in our family to knowthat, okay, I come from a family
of survivors, because I amquite sure, if you spoke to
pretty much everyone about theirfamily, wherever they've come
from.
(44:49):
I don't think there's anyonewho's gone through one scape.
The last 100, 150 years havebeen, you know, a lot's happened
and so anyone who's descendedfrom anyone over that time or
even before that, but all of ourdescendants, essentially, they
all have their own challengesand there are challenging times,
and so I think that, again,having these stories and
(45:10):
connecting with the oldergeneration is really important
for that learning that, oh,actually, I come from a whole
bunch of survivors and the humanrace survive and we've adapted
and come up with lots of thingsover the years and I know that
there's many times, even in ourlifetimes, because we're of
similar age.
I think there's many times inour lifetimes that you know we
(45:32):
thought this is going to be it,there's going to be a nuclear
bomb or this or that, and we'restill here.
So I think it is important forkids to learn that, yeah, we're
survivors, the human race ingeneral are.
Monique Peters (45:46):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (45:47):
And many of our.
If we talk to them, our familyfriends can tell you the
survival stories.
Monique Peters (45:52):
Yeah Well, when I'm working with the kids I'm
actually trying to bring some ofthat back.
So part of my program is Iencourage them to connect with
an older cousin or uncle orauntie, someone who has been
through some hardship, who willcheck in on the child or the
student as they're making theirprogress, but also share those
(46:12):
kind of stories and say you know, I went through this tough
thing when I was younger and itkind of worked out okay.
I learned this from it.
You know that sort of thing andI think it's really helpful.
Fiona Kane (46:24):
Yes, yeah, definitely Definitely.
Monique Peters (46:27):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (46:29):
Were you about to say something.
Monique Peters (46:30):
I was going to say that my program can be quite
tough.
You know we're doing a lot ofrepetition and you know a lot of
the kids will tend to say, oh,this is getting really boring.
Now, mum, can we do somethingelse?
And it's no, we're going tomove through that.
And I'm trying to find allthose ways of keeping them
engaged so that we can get thatneural growth.
Fiona Kane (46:50):
Yeah, yeah, those neural pathways.
You know you can't sort of bebuilding a house and say, oh
look, we'll skip the foundations, that bit's boring, we'll just
build, we'll just build thestructure on top.
It doesn't work that way.
Monique Peters (47:00):
You actually do need to build the foundation
that's it, and and the examplethat was given to me once by a
very wise librarian was um if,um, if a child stopped wanting
to walk because it didn't lookgood, or it was boring, or was
falling over and things likethat where would it be it's
lucky that a child is operatingcompletely on instinct and
(47:20):
wanting to get up and walk.
Fiona Kane (47:22):
Yes, See they haven't got the story in their
brain yet that they can't orthey shouldn't, or they look
stupid or any of that Exactly.
So that shows you thedifference, right?
So how many times do childrenfall over Like?
How many times do children fallover like?
How many times?
So that that you can tell thedifference in the stories that
we have in our brain and howpowerful they are by watching a
(47:44):
child learn to walk.
if anyone's watched a toddlerlearning to walk, yes, there's
nothing that's going to stopthem and they will, they, they,
they're going to fall over amillion times, they fall over
probably thousands of timesevery day until finally they're
on their feet and they andthey're wobbly and that's
strange and whatever, yes, butthere's nothing going to stop
them.
(48:04):
But there's a certain age, oras a as we get older, and we
build up all of these storiesabout the danger and had what we
need to do to be safe.
It's like we put chains aroundourselves and kind of wall
ourselves into this kind ofsafety place and then all of a
sudden, everything's danger,danger, oh no, I can't, won't,
(48:26):
whatever, whereas that child hadnone of that.
So you can tell that we docreate those stories as we get
older, from that kind ofone-time learning thing that
those stories build up and ifwe're not careful we end up
building a fortress aroundourselves.
Monique Peters (48:42):
Oh, we do, we do .
There's a lovely video that Ilove to send to my new parents
when they first start and it'sabout Starfish the dog.
So starfish was born withswimmer's pup syndrome so
couldn't bring her legs upunderneath.
These puppies will often be putjust put down because they
can't be looked after.
(49:02):
But she came across a fosterfamily that wanted to put the
work in and it's a neurologicalcondition that they're born with
, but it can be retrained again,again through a lot of
repetition, and so the videoshows starfish, you know,
walking, really funny at firstand just, you know, chaos upon
(49:22):
chaos.
But instinctively the puppywants to keep running and keep
going and keep going and thepuppy works so hard and in the
end you see the puppy still gota bit of a funny walk but he's
running along the beach at theend he's grown up and it's just
lovely to watch and it's aperfect example of that
neuroplasticity and how we canuse the knowledge of it to
(49:44):
overcome things that we didn'tthink were overcomable.
Fiona Kane (49:48):
Yes, so for me, sort of in.
I'm aware of time, so I thinkwe should wind up soon.
Uh, because I tend I tend to goon.
Excuse me, I think I'm gonnacough, so I'm just gonna have
some I might have a drink too soI know, in regards to this,
(50:14):
that what I do, or what I say tomy clients is I always
encourage people to stay curious, and stay curious not only to
talking to other people andbeing just interested in life
and people in the world, butalso become curious and notice
their own self-talk and thethings they're saying either to
(50:35):
others or in their head, and notto judge it.
So I'm not about judgingyourself, just about being
curious.
And when you become curious,you start to hear yourself and
you hear your language and youhear all of the can'ts and the
shoulds and won'ts and whateverthose things.
And you hear all of the can'tsand the shoulds and won'ts and
whatever those things.
And once you start to hearthose, you can start to change
(50:58):
it.
And essentially, what I do is Iquestion myself really, is that
true?
Is that true?
Is that helpful?
And I often yeah, sometimesit's true, but sometimes it's
really not and even just simplethings, like I always tell this
story because it's a silly,silly story, but I always
(51:19):
thought that I hated countrymusic, and so some of it I don't
like and some of it I do likenow.
Essentially, though, for years Isaid I hate country music.
I hate country music.
And then one day I asked myselfthe question do I music?
And then one day I asked myselfthe question do I?
(51:40):
And?
And I thought no, my mum hatedcountry music and so I was
brought up with country music'sawful, whatever.
So in my mind I had the storycountry music's bad and I hate.
So I was like I hate countrymusic.
It's just something I said foryears.
And then one day I discovered Idid like some.
I.
I don't like all of it, but Iliked some of it, but it wasn't.
I know it sounds silly, but Ididn't even.
It was just so.
It was just a story in my brain.
(52:00):
And because it had this storyin my brain, I'd never really
explored if it was a true story.
I just accepted that, that tobe true.
And then, once you do that,it's the chains.
We keep ourselves limitedbecause you don't go exploring
if you've decided that that's no, I'm not going to do that, or I
(52:21):
can't do that, or I won't dothat that's right.
Monique Peters (52:24):
I um, you know, again, going back to that
personal development that I'vehad in this business and also
understanding theneuroplasticity of of choice,
you know I'm choosing more oftento hear other people's opinions
on things.
I'm choosing to be open to alot more learning than I would
have been if I hadn't gone onthis trajectory with my life.
Fiona Kane (52:47):
Yes.
Monique Peters (52:48):
You know, and I really enjoy that because I
think that's one of the thingsthat keep us young, definitely.
But I don't mind getting oldeither.
Fiona Kane (52:57):
And other opinions are really important because I
know myself look, we do get abit bogged down in.
We have a certain belief or wethink that we're right about
things.
Everyone does that.
It's normal that we do that toan extent.
However, I actually find it'sreally useful to hear the other
side and it can do a number ofthings.
Maybe it changes nothing, Maybeyou learn more about why you
(53:22):
think you're right, maybe youlearn more about why the other
person doesn't understand you orwhy you don't understand them.
Or maybe you actually changeyour mind about something or a
part of something.
So any of those things canhappen and they're all used.
They can all be useful.
That's right.
Monique Peters (53:40):
So it's still worth hearing the other opinion
yeah, growth is such a wonderfulthing.
Um, yeah, it's when we we don'tgrow that well, we get stagnant
.
Yeah, yeah exactly, exactly,you know it's.
But I think we're starting tounderstand that neurobiology of
(54:00):
these things now, like we'vetalked about these things for a
long, long, long time now, butunderstanding how much of our
brain changes with our choices,that there's a physical change
going on and we're driving thatchange with every choice that we
make.
Fiona Kane (54:19):
it's so empowering, you know and I think, too, one
thing that's worth mentioningthat I thought of before and
then it dropped out, dropped outof my brain, it came back is
the importance of reading toyour children, like from birth,
pretty much reading to themevery day and talking to them,
(54:40):
because when you, or even likeyou, were talking about watching
movies and talking about moviesand that kind of thing, or
whether it's going to look atart or something, whatever it is
, but when you read books toyour children, they're going to
ask questions and it gives youthe opportunity to talk about
morals and ethics and all ofthose kind of important stories.
So they might seem like astupid thing reading whatever
(55:03):
the book is, but there'sactually often lots of
opportunities within a book todiscuss moral dilemmas and those
kinds of things, and not justopportunities.
Monique Peters (55:11):
There is also.
You are wiring their brain forlearning later.
Yes, and I know of a lot ofchildren now that are starting
school without ever having hearda nursery rhyme and they're
missing out on that amazingalliteration that developed that
phonemic map I was talkingabout before.
Fiona Kane (55:29):
Yeah, All those neural pathways, all the
opportunity, all those neuralpathways, so many of them happen
from zero to five zero to fiveis where it's happening.
So those children need to be andyou just need to be talking to
them all of the time.
Yeah, and that's just, and it'sexhausting.
That's that's how it is, but itliterally is, you know.
(55:50):
So now we're going to make somebreakfast and let's go and put
we'll just put the garbage outfirst, or let's go and feed the
dog or whatever but it's thattalking constantly to that child
that teaches them language.
Monique Peters (56:01):
That's right and also teaching them.
And the baby talk is also veryimportant.
You know that repeating andusing the higher pitch and
that's so good for their nervoussystem.
It relaxes them, it makes themfeel safe.
Fiona Kane (56:14):
They.
That's so good for their nervoussystem.
It relaxes them, it makes themfeel safe, they know they're
safe and then it's like thefacial expressions and then,
even when they you know, it'sreally fun when they're really
small and they first startsitting at a table with adults
and the adults are talking andthey mimic the sounds because
they want to be part of it.
(56:35):
They're not really saying anywords, but they go
da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da atwork there and, yes, exactly,
it's a very big part of how welearn to survive.
It is so I think it's reallyimportant that because I don't
think that we're always noteveryone's taught this, not
everyone understands this nojudgment on anyone but it's just
really important to know thatreally just having that
interaction, just talking tochildren, talking all the time
and reading the books andtalking and discussing things
and observing things, but thatconstant uh, that constant talk
and being and sitting at thetable and eating together and
(56:56):
talking together at the table,not watching, using devices and
stuff that's actually vital forhow all of these neural pathways
develop.
That will affect them for therest of their lives.
So really I can't emphasiseenough how important that is.
Monique Peters (57:09):
But I also want to add, if I may, about how
neuroplastic the adult brain is,so talking about language and
everything.
So this is probably a bit funny.
Um, I love singing in French.
It was something that my mumloved to do and and I love to do
it in the car.
It's just something I can dowhile I'm traveling and moving
and and living a very busy life,but I can put the music on and
(57:32):
I can learn to sing in French,and I'm just doing it by hearing
and mimicking what I'm hearing,because obviously I'm
concentrating on driving as well, and quite a few goes into this
.
One particular song that I waslearning.
I dreamt about it one night andI thought, now, how cool is
that?
Because there has to actuallybe a physical part of my brain
(57:56):
there now that is doing this,for me to be able to dream about
it at night.
How interesting is that so I'min my 50s, I don't mind saying
so that neuroplasticity in ourbrain is still very, very active
.
It's just we've got to work abit harder as adults to do it
than we did as children.
Yes, but we work a bit harderas adults to do it than we did
as children.
So yes, and whatever you'reconnecting ourselves to be able
(58:18):
to do whatever you have orhaven't done before, you can
still do something.
Fiona Kane (58:22):
Now there's there's always, there's always something
you can do, so so is thereanything before I wind up, is
there anything in particularthat you feel like that you
haven't said?
That's really important forthis conversation.
Monique Peters (58:36):
Thank you, thank you.
So it's probably the reason whyI decided to do all this, and
that was because I know thatthere are so many children
sitting in classrooms out there.
They're as confused as my sonwas.
They don't know what's going on, they don't know why, they
don't understand, they don'tknow why reading is so difficult
for them.
Please get in touch with me.
(58:58):
You know there is something wecan do about it With my program.
You don't need a diagnosis, youdon't need assessments, you
don't need anything like that.
It's just basically yourdecision to jump on and keep
going.
You probably need three to sixmonths, um to see good results.
Fiona Kane (59:17):
Yes, it does take work and that and that will keep
them, that will build them upwhile, while they're waiting for
a diagnosis anyway, so it won'tinterfere in any way.
It will just get them on, youknow, on the right path, and get
them moving, moving forward.
Therapy does start, they getbenefits from it quicker yes,
yeah, so they don't need to waitfor the diagnosis to start
(59:37):
doing something about theseneural pathways that's right.
Monique Peters (59:40):
That's right.
So for the kids out there, it's, it's um.
Yeah, I just my heart breakswhen I think of the children out
there that are, you know,because you don't know what
choices they're making later inlife.
Because of this, yes, yeah,yeah.
Fiona Kane (59:55):
Well, being able to communicate well and think
things through and criticallythink and all of those things,
they're all really important,and I think those neural
pathways and those languageskills are a really huge part of
that, aren't they?
Monique Peters (01:00:08):
They are big.
Fiona Kane (01:00:11):
So I will put all of your links and things in the
show notes, but is there aparticular website or some way
that you would like to sendpeople to?
Uh?
Monique Peters (01:00:19):
yes, just www.
learnerobics.
com.
au.
And um, yeah, have a read, um,and there's a form there that
you can fill out and book sometime and chat with me.
Ask me anything.
I love talking.
Fiona Kane (01:00:37):
As do I, which is why, if we're not careful, we'll
do a two-hour episode.
So thank you so much for today,Monique.
It was really interestingtalking about this, so thanks
for coming on today.
Monique Peters (01:00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
All the best everybody.
Fiona Kane (01:00:53):
And for those of you at home, can you please
remember to like, subscribe,share.
Remember that we're on YouTubeand Rumble if you want to watch
this video, or you can justlisten on all of the usual
places, but please tell peopleabout this podcast so more
people will learn about allthese valuable things that I get
to learn from my guests.
It's the first guest I've hadin a while, so it is really good
(01:01:15):
to have someone to chat to andto learn something new.
So thanks again and I will seeyou all next week.
Thanks everyone, Bye.
Monique Peters (01:01:25):
Bye.
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