August 19, 2025 • 30 mins
When is the right time to have a baby?
In this heartfelt episode of The Wellness Connection, Fiona Kane opens up about her personal journey, the biological realities women face, and the emotional impact of delayed motherhood. She shares honest reflections on fertility, regret, career choices, and the importance of having real conversations about life planning.
Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, or beyond, this episode invites you to think deeply about what truly matters.
Learn more about booking a nutrition consultation with Fiona: https://informedhealth.com.au/
Learn more about Fiona's speaking and media services: https://fionakane.com.au/
Sign up to receive our newsletter by clicking here.
Instagram
Facebook
LinkedIn
Credit for the music used in this podcast:
The Beat of Nature
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fiona Kane (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
.
I'm your host, Fiona Kane.
Today I'm going to be talkingabout when is the right age to
have children, particularly forwomen, because we do have a
cut-off point.
Men obviously can have childrenor Mick Jagger's got a small
child and he just turned 82 theother day so men can have
(00:21):
children for a really long time,but women do have a short
window.
So I just wanted to talk alittle bit about that.
Now, you know, of course I'mtalking about my own experience
and I'm talking about somegeneralizations, and this
discussion that I'm having todayis not meant to make a judgment
on anyone or tell people youshould do this or you should do
(00:44):
that.
Any of that I just always liketo say you know, on this podcast
, I like to have importantconversations about things that
matter, and I think this topicreally matters, and I think that
sometimes women can be deludedinto thinking that they've got
more time than what they reallydo, and so I just think that I
(01:04):
suppose I want to bring this inas a little bit of a reality
check.
At the end of the day, everyonemakes their own decisions and
does what's right for them, andwhatever decision people make.
There's consequences.
If you have children, there'sconsequences.
If you don't, there'sconsequences.
If you have them young, there'sconsequences.
If you have them older, there'sconsequences.
Every decision in life has justdifferent sets of advantages
(01:27):
and different sets of problems.
So I'm not sort of pretendingthat there's one prescription
that's right and everyone shoulddo a certain thing this way and
this is the perfect way, andblah, blah, blah, but just in
general, having a realconversation about fertility
windows and why we need to payattention to these things.
So when I was growing up so Iwas a teenager in the 80s and I
(01:51):
was very heavily influenced bysort of, I suppose, the feminist
movement of let's not be tiedto kitchens and husbands and
children and all that kind ofstuff and let's do our own life
and let's have our, have our ownlife and have freedom and all
of that.
And while there's, you know,obviously there's nothing wrong
with making different choicesand and I really appreciate that
(02:15):
some of the things aboutfeminism have been great, that
women do have more choices andthat, and that I had certainly
had more choices, moreopportunities than you know my
mother did and my grandmotherdid and I was able to make
different choices.
I really respect that and I'mglad that I had those choices.
At the same time, though, whenwe started making those
(02:37):
recommendations and when westarted sort of championing,
championing, championing I can'tsay the word but when we
started promoting that right,when we started promoting that
as a way of doing life, I don'tthink we fully understood then
the consequences as far as youknow, as far as fertility goes.
(02:59):
So I'm just shining a bit of alight on that.
No, not about judgment, notabout anything like that, just
simply shining a light on thisissue.
So what we do know what isfactual is for women, their
prime fertility is when they'rein their late teens and twenties
, right, so that, for women, isactually physically the best
(03:23):
time to have children.
It is when you are most fertile.
It is also when you are youngenough to run around after
children and do all the thingsthat you know that children
having children entails.
So, absolutely, the fact isthat having children when you're
quite young is actually theperfect age to have children.
Biologically.
(03:44):
Now, I understand that not allpeople feel ready and it's not
always the right time and all ofthose things, but just purely
biologically, it's a simple factthat when you are young.
That is when you are mostfertile, and once we get over 30
, it can be very challenging formany women to fall pregnant.
(04:05):
I know I don't have all thestats in front of me I didn't
want to do a whole show aboutstats but you could easily
Google the stats and see thatevery sort of age gets harder
and harder, and not only does itget harder to fall pregnant,
but it gets harder to carry ahealthy pregnancy, which is why
they actually sort of callpregnancies over a certain age
(04:26):
as a 35.
I think maybe they call themgeriatric pregnancies, right?
These are just biologicalrealities, right?
So there are biologicalrealities we need to confront as
women and as couples, right,because they are real.
Now, like I said before, thisdoesn't take away from the fact
that there's other things thatmaybe are not in place in
(04:48):
someone's life, and obviously,you know, ideally you have a
stable partner, and that's whatyou have before you start having
children, and so that is ideal.
It's not always the case, itdoesn't always happen that way.
It doesn't mean children can'tbe loved and can't be welcomed
into the world and can't havegood lives.
Of course they can.
So what I would just like tosay, though, is like so I shall
(05:13):
talk about my experience alittle bit and just give you my
and this is just my personalexperience.
Again, no judgment on anyoneelse.
This is what's happened for meis I did.
When I was actually younger.
I wasn't one of those people whoreally desperately wanted to
have children.
A lot of women around me were,and they didn't really want
children.
I didn't really feel that way,and I don't know if I'm just not
(05:36):
the maternal type or if it'sjust because of my own childhood
challenges and what I saw mymother and my grandmother like,
the women in my life.
I saw them have a very hardtime in marriage and parenting
and those things that made theirlives very hard, and that they
missed out on a lot by doingthose things or by making those
(05:58):
choices although there weren'tso much choices as much in those
days so probably a bit of allthose things, but all of those
things meant that it wasn'tsomething that I was really
really keen to do.
In actual fact, though, I didmeet my husband when I was quite
young, so I've been with myhusband since I was 18, even
though I was like I'm nevergoing to get married.
I'm not doing any of that.
(06:18):
I actually met the guy when Iwas 18 and he was the right
person.
So we've stayed together and wedid get married, but I didn't
start trying to have childrenuntil I was older.
For me also there was achallenge that I had a lot of
health challenges in mymid-twenties, which I've talked
about before on this podcastthat essentially, I had a couple
(06:41):
of strokes when I was in mytwenties, a couple of small
strokes and even though theywere small, they had a large
impact on my life and I wasdealing with diagnosis of at
least two autoimmune diseases,one of them being thyroid
disease, which can very muchaffect your fertility, and
another one being an autoimmunedisease that can cause clotting.
(07:05):
And those two autoimmunediseases also very much can
affect your fertility or yourability to carry your child to
term and all those things.
So I was dealing with a lot ofthat in my 20s and I was so
overwhelmed with all of thatthat I didn't even try to have
children then.
With all of that that, I didn'teven try to have children then
(07:29):
and then by the time I got intomy 30s probably wasn't really
until I was maybe early tomid-30s I can't remember the
exact time, but I finallythought oh, you know what, if I
don't have a child now, I'llmiss out on my opportunity.
I really should do this, and Iactually think my husband would
have made a great father, and mymom really wanted to be a
grandma and not that she wasn't,she actually was but my niece
(07:51):
lived far away and I livedrelatively close to my mother,
so I also kind of wanted to dothat for her.
So I wanted to have a child,probably more for them than for
me.
In saying that, though, I didstart to sort of feel a bit more
of that maternal, and it's notunusual.
I think the really common agefor it to kick in is around 27.
So a lot of women and this isan issue with what I've talked
(08:15):
about before, with youngchildren and the gender
affirming care in regards tochildren who are confused about
their whether or not they'remale, female, those kinds of
issues.
This is a real issue there,because these children are
actually feel like they're quitesure that they won't want to
have children, because theyabsolutely feel like they don't
want to do this.
But that's really really commonin women when they're teenagers
(08:38):
maybe not to be who wants that?
And of course you don't wantthat because of all the things
you know when you're growing upand you're learning all the
things associated with havingbabies like even just when you
first get your period and justdealing with all of that can be
quite challenging, right.
And then you learn about howbabies are conceived and then
how they're born, right.
(08:58):
There's a lot of things youknow when you're younger that
seem really overwhelming.
I'd never want to do that.
You think back to even when youwere a little child and it's
like I'll never kiss a boy andthen one day you do so.
It's the same with fertility,with babies, in that a lot of
women say, oh, I don't want that, I would never want that, I
don't want children.
But then biology kicks in andsuddenly you do, and in a lot of
(09:22):
cases, desperately do, andthat's a really, really common
thing I'd say that's probablymore common than not that that
kicks in for women and it'ssomething they really, really
want to do, which is why there'sso much money spent in the
world on fertility treatmentsand things right.
So the truth is that most womenfeel fulfilled by having
(09:43):
children.
They like having children.
We're made for that right.
We're actually biologicallymade for that.
So anyway, I'll get back to mystory.
So essentially I did starttrying and it didn't happen.
And I spent probably a fewyears trying to have children
and then I kind of had thedecision to make whether or not
(10:07):
to go the next step up, whichwould have been all of the
fertility treatments andinjections and all of that kind
of stuff, and for me I actuallyjust decided to put a stop there
.
I just thought, no, that's notfor me.
Now again, not a judgment onanyone who chooses that path
that just didn't feel like itwas the right path for me.
So I accepted at that pointthat I wasn't going to have
(10:29):
children.
That wasn't for me and I didn'tfeel a lot of regret around it
at the time and I can't even saynow so I'm 54 now and part of
me is like, oh well, I didn'thave kids, it's fine, I a
(10:50):
certain level of success and I'mhappy in my marriage, I've got
friends, I've got a career,whatever.
So there's a part of me that isfine with it.
But then there's another partof me that it's funny.
There's a different type ofregret or a different way of
looking at things that I'venoticed at this age that I
(11:10):
wouldn't have recognized orunderstood when I was younger,
and I want to share this withyou and not out of you know poor
me.
None of the point of this videois poor me, it's more just
saying these are the facts,these are my facts, this is my
story, and these are the thingsI see and the stories I hear,
just so that other women canunderstand this, especially
(11:31):
younger women, understand thatyou have to understand the
choice you're making.
It's really hard when you'reyoung to understand your choices
.
So one thing I have noticed,though, is for me now is I'm
definitely post-menopausal andthat's never going to happen,
and I'm 54.
And, like I said, part of me isfine with that.
(11:53):
Part of me has just acceptedthat a long time ago.
However, in the time now whereall the matriarchs in my family
have passed away, sort of themain ones on my mom's side of
the family, the ones that I wasreally close to not saying that
there's no other ones I love andclose to that sort of thing,
but there were just these mainthree women who were the ones
(12:13):
who brought me up, basically,and they've all gone.
And so, when I was younger, mylife, you know, birthdays and
Christmas and Mother's Days andall those events were kind of
about those people and it wasabout celebrating those people
or celebrating with those people.
Right Now they're all gone,those events are quite empty
(12:35):
because there isn't someone tocelebrate them with.
And you know, with Mother's Dayit can be.
Obviously it's really sadMother's Day when your mother's
passed away.
But for a lot of women that'skind of sad and happy, because
they're sad that their mother'spassed away but they've got
children and maybe gotgrandchildren and so they can
still celebrate mothers and theycan still celebrate motherhood.
(12:56):
While it might be sad as well,right Whereas for women who
don't have children, more oftenthan not it's actually just very
, very sad and it's quite.
Those holidays and things arequite sort of empty and that's
something that I didn't predictor didn't understand would
(13:17):
happen.
You know, when I got older Also, things like when I can't
remember stuff, some thingsmaybe that mom told me that I
really wanted to remember.
I thought it was important.
But then I think, well, whowould I tell?
Because who is the person you?
You know, it would normally beyour daughter or your son or
whatever, but it would be yourchild, that you'd pass down the
(13:38):
family stories, you'd pass downthis sort of family legacy, but
there's no one for me really topass it down to, and so that
kind of it's a bit of a sting inthat when you realize that, oh,
I won't be leaving that kind ofa legacy, that doesn't mean you
can't leave legacy in differentways.
I understand that.
(13:58):
So don't sort of go saying, oh,you could do this, you could do
I get all of that.
All I'm trying to do is justlay out some of the truth of
what it is like to be childlessat this age, and, like I said,
not for a poor me, and not thatI can't.
Sort of I talk always.
I talk about looking at, youknow, reframing things and
(14:20):
looking for glimmers and lookingfor positive things and all of
that sort of stuff, and I'm afirm believer in all that.
I get that, and I do that right.
At the same time, though it is,I think that it is important
that we're really honest aboutthese things, because I just
don't think there's enoughhonesty in this, and that's why
I want to just be really honestabout it, right, so you can have
(14:41):
certain feelings and feel acertain way and have certain
thoughts, but still be able toget on with it and move on and
be okay, and I am okay andthat's fine.
So this is not a justclarifying when I'm sort of
saying these things.
However it is.
You know, it is different,right?
So it's different.
Celebrations for me aredifferent now and I don't have
that legacy.
I don't have the person to tellthe stories to.
(15:02):
So the stories that mom told me, I've got no one to tell them
to, no one to share them withand no one that's going to carry
on that legacy.
And I don't have that sort offamily legacy thing, thinking
that, oh well, you know, whenI'm gone, my ancestors are going
to live way beyond me and Idon't have any of that and
there's something about thatthat is.
I think there's something aboutthat that is in life, that is,
(15:25):
having that, having that in yourlife, having the family and the
legacy and all that is kind ofjust normal and it's, I suppose
normal might be the wrong word,but it's how it should be.
It's how we were made.
We are human beings, we weremade to produce offspring and
there's a whole kind of wisdomto how it all worked that
(15:47):
basically, we got together, wehad children, we had
grandchildren and we had allthese different roles throughout
our life based on biology andthose biological reality, right.
So we were going to be kids ata certain time and we're going
to be moms at a certain time andthen we're going to be grandmas
at a certain time, and all ofthat.
There was roles in that, therewas meaning in that and there
(16:09):
was just a sort of a wisdom.
And just look, there was just anatural evolution about it that
we're born, we're kids, we havechildren, we have grandchildren
, whatever.
At a certain point we die,right.
There's something about thiswhole sort of biologically that
it's just natural and how itshould be.
And now there is a whole cohortof women and men I'm talking
(16:32):
about specifically women in thisbut who?
That is not that natural thing,that sort of biological thing
that we were made for.
That didn't happen, right.
And so for women in mysituation, it's actually kind of
well, it's trying to find somesort of meaning or some sort of
you know, I can't have themeaning in my children and my
(16:54):
grandchildren and making surethat they're all right.
So it's more being an auntie orbeing a sister or being you
know as other roles, right, soyou can certainly have other
roles in your life where you useyour mothering energy and you
do something good for the world.
Or it could be in how I treatmy patients, my clients, or with
(17:16):
the things I talk about on here, just leaving that legacy of
just hey, did you know this?
Maybe this is usefulinformation to know, and so
there's other ways of makingmeaning.
There's other things I can do,but just sort of letting you
know that it is quite differentand there can be a lot of
emptiness around it.
There can be a lot of just lackof meaning or lack of purpose
(17:39):
when you are childless as youget older, and also the thoughts
of you know, like when I amdealing with aging parents and
parents passing away those sortsof issues.
I've been looking after myparents, but that kind of does
make you think about who's goingto look after me.
Right, and my husband is nineyears older than me, so it may
(18:03):
just be me Again, no one knowswhat's going to happen in the
future and of course Iunderstand there's no guarantee
that.
You know, I've been in nursinghomes before where there's a
woman with seven children andnone of them come to see her.
So I get that having a familyis no guarantee that someone's
going to look after you.
I understand all of that, but Ijust wanted to share with you
(18:24):
the kinds of things that gothrough your mind, the kinds of
things that concern you, thekinds of feelings and thoughts
that you have when you're in thesituation that I am in and
again, not for sympathy oranything like that, just being
honest, because I think that itis important that you hear this
and so I suppose my message hereis that the whole kind of you
(18:45):
should have your career and doyour career and focus on that,
and children will come later.
That is not true for many people.
I don't even know if it's most,but it's not true for many.
I think.
Actually, is it 50% of womenwho don't have children?
Out of the women who don't havechildren before they're 30, 50%
(19:08):
of them, I think, never willright, and so that's just
something to have an awarenessabout.
That you really really cut downyour chances as you get older.
So what I would like to say isthat I just would like to
encourage young women, youngpeople, to focus more on what a
fulfilling life would look likefor them and just understand
(19:30):
there is a biological reality.
It doesn't mean that women can'thave careers Of course they can
.
And it doesn't mean that womencan't have careers Of course
they can.
And it doesn't mean that womencan't choose not to have
children Of course they can andsome women can't, and that's how
it is.
So it's not a judgment onanyone.
It's just me saying that whenyou're looking at what you want
to do in your life, if having afamily is part of that or feels
(19:51):
like it might be part of that, Iwant you to bring your
attention to it earlier.
I want you to think about itearlier.
And yes, you can put yourcareer on hold for a little
while and have children and goand focus more on your career
later if you want to.
But the whole idea of, oh, Icould just freeze my eggs and
blah, blah, blah and go and dothe career.
(20:11):
I'll come back and think aboutit when I'm 35.
Yeah, anyone who sells you thatbill of goods is not telling
you the truth.
And while some women can and dodo that and it works out for
them, for all those women, forevery one of those women, that
works out for I can tell youthere's a whole lot more that it
didn't work out for, andthey've spent $10,000 each round
(20:34):
for IVF.
It's probably more now.
That's how much it was.
Last time I was aware of howmuch it was is 10 years ago or
something, and they might havespent a hundred thousand dollars
, they might have spent twohundred thousand dollars,
whatever, and all of the all ofeverything that goes into doing
IVF.
It's very traumatic emotionallyand physically for many couples
and for many women.
(20:55):
So I just wanted to bringattention to the fact that I
believe that young women andyoung couples should think more
about family and more aboutdoing that sooner rather than
later.
Your career can wait and youwill be.
I believe for the most part,you'll be more fulfilled if you
(21:15):
have a family, because I thinkthat's just the way that humans
were meant to be and part ofwhat women were biologically
here for, not to say again thatpeople can't have careers and
all of that.
I can hear all the feministsfreaking out.
Not at all.
I think that women can do lotsof different things, and that's
what's wonderful too, and I'mglad that we can and I'm glad
(21:38):
that we have those rights andthose choices.
However, there is a biologicalreality to having babies.
I suppose, if I sum up what I'mtrying to say here, the summary
is there is an absolutebiological reality to bearing
children that women carry.
That is a very, very, it's very, it's very true, very real.
(22:00):
And it has a very, very, it'svery true, very real.
And it has a very, verydefinite end point.
And the longer you leave it,the harder it is and the more
likely it is that it won'thappen for you and I don't think
, for many women.
I'm not saying all, I'll neversay all about anyone.
(22:20):
I can't speak for everyone, butI think for many women the
career feels hollow if theyweren't able to have the
children.
The career doesn't quite fillthat right, and again, not all,
but just many.
I've talked to a lot of womenand heard a lot of stories and I
just want you to know that whenyou're thinking about your
(22:41):
plans for your life.
The other thing is that when Ihear people talking about having
children, they talk about theright time.
It's not the right time becausewe need to sort of buy the
house or pay off the thing or dothe thing or do whatever.
There is never going to be aperfectly right time to have
(23:01):
children, where everything'sperfect.
Occasionally, people mightachieve that.
They might get married and payoff the house and everything's
great and good on them.
That might be true for somepeople, but the truth is life is
kind of messy and there's nevernecessarily good times, because
always in your life there'sgoing to be a financial issue or
there's a job issue, or there'ssomeone who passes away or
(23:24):
there's someone who's ill.
All this, there's all sorts ofthings that happen in life that
mean that there's never you know, you'll never have all the
ducks in a row.
It's never going to be perfect,it's never going to be the
perfect time.
So and and I think the otherthing too is that I believe this
generation has in their mindthat they have to have all these
things in place.
So before you can have a child,you've got to have two cars and
(23:49):
this and that and a lovelyhouse and blah, blah, blah you
actually don't need all of that.
Not saying it's not useful andit's not helpful.
And I'm not encouraging peopleto be on the street and starving
with their child.
I'm not encouraging people tobe on the street and starving
with their child.
I'm not encouraging that.
All I'm saying is there's a lotof couples that can they have
children and maybe they can livewith their parents for the
first year or so.
Might not be ideal, but that'ssomething you can do, right.
(24:13):
Or you might just live in areally ordinary, horrible place
for a while when your childrenare younger and as you get older
, when you go back to work,whatever.
Maybe you can live in a nicerhouse or whatever.
It is right.
All I'm trying to say is youdon't have to have it all
perfect before you have children.
You certainly have to have alevel of stability and, ideally,
(24:38):
some support systems around you, maybe someone like a grandma,
grandpa, those aunties, whatever.
But you don't have to haveeverything in place and
everything perfect before youhave children.
And I think some people, Ithink we're convinced it's
almost like there's this listthat women have in their head
now, this list of I've got tohave all these things in place
(25:02):
before I can have my family.
And all I'm trying to say isyou don't have to have all of
the list in place, and I thinkthat there's this falsity that's
been put into people's headthat all of these things have to
be in place before you can havea family.
It's just simply not true.
So, anyway, that's just my sortof encouragement to women to
(25:22):
think about their fertility,understand that it is finite and
understand that really havingchildren when you're younger is
really important.
I know it can't happen foreveryone and this is no judgment
on people who this doesn't workout for them.
They don't find the partner.
Whatever the situation is notmeant as a judgment, but I think
I like to have importantconversations about things that
(25:42):
matter.
I think it's important to talkabout the truth of what not
having children can be like, andbecause I think the other thing
that our society does is oursociety says oh well, you get to
sleep in or you get to go toparties or you get to do all
this, and that might be true.
However, there's a certainpoint in life where being able
to sleep in and go to parties oryou get to do all this, and
that might be true.
However, there's a certainpoint in life where being able
(26:02):
to sleep in and go to partiesand that sort of stuff, it's not
fulfilling.
It doesn't fulfill you for alifetime, right?
So I think we just tell lots andwe also tell, we emphasize so
much about how hard it is havingchildren, everything about so
hard and it's so awful and sobad and blah, blah, blah and not
having children so easy.
(26:24):
And you know there's all theseinfluences online kind of going
on my life is easy, breezy, Idon't have children.
And you know, while all thatmight be true to an extent, it's
not complete.
It's not all.
It's like I said, every, everysituation has its negatives and
positives, right?
So having children when you'reyounger, or having children at
all, has its negatives.
(26:44):
Yeah, they make a mess.
Everything's messy, your life'sgoing to be messy for many
years and you're going to havelack of sleep for many years and
you're responsible for someoneelse and it can be really,
really hard and it's all of thethings that having children
super hard, lots of things aboutsuper hard.
I get that.
All of the things that havingchildren super hard, lots of
things about super hard.
I get that.
It also is fulfilling.
It gives you a sense of purpose, and children bring a lot of
(27:08):
joy and bring a lot of love andbring a lot of wonderful things
into the lives of their familiesand people around them.
And so I just think that in oursociety, we choose to tell half
of the story.
We tell half of the story abouthaving children oh it's all bad
, and then half of the storyabout not having children it's
all good.
And I just think we should tellthe full stories of both of
(27:30):
those situations and then peoplecan make decisions for
themselves based on theirsituation and what they want to
do.
But telling half stories isn'thelpful and as hard as having
children is.
I've not met many people, ifany people, in my life not many
people that would do it, wouldnot want their children, would
(27:53):
want it different, right they?
You know what they've gainedfrom having children is far
greater than what they've lostfrom having children.
So I just want to put someperspective there, a little bit
of truth, a little bit ofhonesty, so that just to
encourage especially youngerwomen, younger people, to kind
of think a little bit more aboutthis fertility issue and
(28:14):
whether or not it's somethingthey can just put on the back
burner till later, which you canchoose to do that.
But if you choose to do that,you are playing largely with
fire because you know the olderyou get, the more likely it's
not going to happen.
So anyway, that's justsomething I felt, that a
discussion.
I felt that needed to happenand that hasn't really been
(28:35):
happening in a really honest way, so I just wanted to add my bit
there.
I hope you found that useful,please, and I'd love to hear
anyone if you have yourexperiences or your feedback,
I'd love to hear that and please, you know, like, subscribe,
share and rate and review theshow.
It really, really helps me.
Hope you have a great week andyou know, I know that this can
(28:58):
be a challenging topic forpeople, so sorry if it's brought
some things up for you, but Ithink this we need to have real
conversations and, you know,putting, pretending that these
issues don't exist doesn't helpanyone, I don't think.
Anyway, I hope you have alovely week and I'll talk to you
all again next week where wehave real conversations about
(29:20):
things that matter.
Thanks, bye.
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
.
I'm your host, Fiona Kane.
Today I'm going to be talkingabout when is the right age to
have children, particularly forwomen, because we do have a
cut-off point.
Men obviously can have childrenor Mick Jagger's got a small
child and he just turned 82 theother day so men can have
(00:21):
children for a really long time,but women do have a short
window.
So I just wanted to talk alittle bit about that.
Now, you know, of course I'mtalking about my own experience
and I'm talking about somegeneralizations, and this
discussion that I'm having todayis not meant to make a judgment
on anyone or tell people youshould do this or you should do
(00:44):
that.
Any of that I just always liketo say you know, on this podcast
, I like to have importantconversations about things that
matter, and I think this topicreally matters, and I think that
sometimes women can be deludedinto thinking that they've got
more time than what they reallydo, and so I just think that I
(01:04):
suppose I want to bring this inas a little bit of a reality
check.
At the end of the day, everyonemakes their own decisions and
does what's right for them, andwhatever decision people make.
There's consequences.
If you have children, there'sconsequences.
If you don't, there'sconsequences.
If you have them young, there'sconsequences.
If you have them older, there'sconsequences.
Every decision in life has justdifferent sets of advantages
(01:27):
and different sets of problems.
So I'm not sort of pretendingthat there's one prescription
that's right and everyone shoulddo a certain thing this way and
this is the perfect way, andblah, blah, blah, but just in
general, having a realconversation about fertility
windows and why we need to payattention to these things.
So when I was growing up so Iwas a teenager in the 80s and I
(01:51):
was very heavily influenced bysort of, I suppose, the feminist
movement of let's not be tiedto kitchens and husbands and
children and all that kind ofstuff and let's do our own life
and let's have our, have our ownlife and have freedom and all
of that.
And while there's, you know,obviously there's nothing wrong
with making different choicesand and I really appreciate that
(02:15):
some of the things aboutfeminism have been great, that
women do have more choices andthat, and that I had certainly
had more choices, moreopportunities than you know my
mother did and my grandmotherdid and I was able to make
different choices.
I really respect that and I'mglad that I had those choices.
At the same time, though, whenwe started making those
(02:37):
recommendations and when westarted sort of championing,
championing, championing I can'tsay the word but when we
started promoting that right,when we started promoting that
as a way of doing life, I don'tthink we fully understood then
the consequences as far as youknow, as far as fertility goes.
(02:59):
So I'm just shining a bit of alight on that.
No, not about judgment, notabout anything like that, just
simply shining a light on thisissue.
So what we do know what isfactual is for women, their
prime fertility is when they'rein their late teens and twenties
, right, so that, for women, isactually physically the best
(03:23):
time to have children.
It is when you are most fertile.
It is also when you are youngenough to run around after
children and do all the thingsthat you know that children
having children entails.
So, absolutely, the fact isthat having children when you're
quite young is actually theperfect age to have children.
Biologically.
(03:44):
Now, I understand that not allpeople feel ready and it's not
always the right time and all ofthose things, but just purely
biologically, it's a simple factthat when you are young.
That is when you are mostfertile, and once we get over 30
, it can be very challenging formany women to fall pregnant.
(04:05):
I know I don't have all thestats in front of me I didn't
want to do a whole show aboutstats but you could easily
Google the stats and see thatevery sort of age gets harder
and harder, and not only does itget harder to fall pregnant,
but it gets harder to carry ahealthy pregnancy, which is why
they actually sort of callpregnancies over a certain age
(04:26):
as a 35.
I think maybe they call themgeriatric pregnancies, right?
These are just biologicalrealities, right?
So there are biologicalrealities we need to confront as
women and as couples, right,because they are real.
Now, like I said before, thisdoesn't take away from the fact
that there's other things thatmaybe are not in place in
(04:48):
someone's life, and obviously,you know, ideally you have a
stable partner, and that's whatyou have before you start having
children, and so that is ideal.
It's not always the case, itdoesn't always happen that way.
It doesn't mean children can'tbe loved and can't be welcomed
into the world and can't havegood lives.
Of course they can.
So what I would just like tosay, though, is like so I shall
(05:13):
talk about my experience alittle bit and just give you my
and this is just my personalexperience.
Again, no judgment on anyoneelse.
This is what's happened for meis I did.
When I was actually younger.
I wasn't one of those people whoreally desperately wanted to
have children.
A lot of women around me were,and they didn't really want
children.
I didn't really feel that way,and I don't know if I'm just not
(05:36):
the maternal type or if it'sjust because of my own childhood
challenges and what I saw mymother and my grandmother like,
the women in my life.
I saw them have a very hardtime in marriage and parenting
and those things that made theirlives very hard, and that they
missed out on a lot by doingthose things or by making those
(05:58):
choices although there weren'tso much choices as much in those
days so probably a bit of allthose things, but all of those
things meant that it wasn'tsomething that I was really
really keen to do.
In actual fact, though, I didmeet my husband when I was quite
young, so I've been with myhusband since I was 18, even
though I was like I'm nevergoing to get married.
I'm not doing any of that.
(06:18):
I actually met the guy when Iwas 18 and he was the right
person.
So we've stayed together and wedid get married, but I didn't
start trying to have childrenuntil I was older.
For me also there was achallenge that I had a lot of
health challenges in mymid-twenties, which I've talked
about before on this podcastthat essentially, I had a couple
(06:41):
of strokes when I was in mytwenties, a couple of small
strokes and even though theywere small, they had a large
impact on my life and I wasdealing with diagnosis of at
least two autoimmune diseases,one of them being thyroid
disease, which can very muchaffect your fertility, and
another one being an autoimmunedisease that can cause clotting.
(07:05):
And those two autoimmunediseases also very much can
affect your fertility or yourability to carry your child to
term and all those things.
So I was dealing with a lot ofthat in my 20s and I was so
overwhelmed with all of thatthat I didn't even try to have
children then.
With all of that that, I didn'teven try to have children then
(07:29):
and then by the time I got intomy 30s probably wasn't really
until I was maybe early tomid-30s I can't remember the
exact time, but I finallythought oh, you know what, if I
don't have a child now, I'llmiss out on my opportunity.
I really should do this, and Iactually think my husband would
have made a great father, and mymom really wanted to be a
grandma and not that she wasn't,she actually was but my niece
(07:51):
lived far away and I livedrelatively close to my mother,
so I also kind of wanted to dothat for her.
So I wanted to have a child,probably more for them than for
me.
In saying that, though, I didstart to sort of feel a bit more
of that maternal, and it's notunusual.
I think the really common agefor it to kick in is around 27.
So a lot of women and this isan issue with what I've talked
(08:15):
about before, with youngchildren and the gender
affirming care in regards tochildren who are confused about
their whether or not they'remale, female, those kinds of
issues.
This is a real issue there,because these children are
actually feel like they're quitesure that they won't want to
have children, because theyabsolutely feel like they don't
want to do this.
But that's really really commonin women when they're teenagers
(08:38):
maybe not to be who wants that?
And of course you don't wantthat because of all the things
you know when you're growing upand you're learning all the
things associated with havingbabies like even just when you
first get your period and justdealing with all of that can be
quite challenging, right.
And then you learn about howbabies are conceived and then
how they're born, right.
(08:58):
There's a lot of things youknow when you're younger that
seem really overwhelming.
I'd never want to do that.
You think back to even when youwere a little child and it's
like I'll never kiss a boy andthen one day you do so.
It's the same with fertility,with babies, in that a lot of
women say, oh, I don't want that, I would never want that, I
don't want children.
But then biology kicks in andsuddenly you do, and in a lot of
(09:22):
cases, desperately do, andthat's a really, really common
thing I'd say that's probablymore common than not that that
kicks in for women and it'ssomething they really, really
want to do, which is why there'sso much money spent in the
world on fertility treatmentsand things right.
So the truth is that most womenfeel fulfilled by having
(09:43):
children.
They like having children.
We're made for that right.
We're actually biologicallymade for that.
So anyway, I'll get back to mystory.
So essentially I did starttrying and it didn't happen.
And I spent probably a fewyears trying to have children
and then I kind of had thedecision to make whether or not
(10:07):
to go the next step up, whichwould have been all of the
fertility treatments andinjections and all of that kind
of stuff, and for me I actuallyjust decided to put a stop there
.
I just thought, no, that's notfor me.
Now again, not a judgment onanyone who chooses that path
that just didn't feel like itwas the right path for me.
So I accepted at that pointthat I wasn't going to have
(10:29):
children.
That wasn't for me and I didn'tfeel a lot of regret around it
at the time and I can't even saynow so I'm 54 now and part of
me is like, oh well, I didn'thave kids, it's fine, I a
(10:50):
certain level of success and I'mhappy in my marriage, I've got
friends, I've got a career,whatever.
So there's a part of me that isfine with it.
But then there's another partof me that it's funny.
There's a different type ofregret or a different way of
looking at things that I'venoticed at this age that I
(11:10):
wouldn't have recognized orunderstood when I was younger,
and I want to share this withyou and not out of you know poor
me.
None of the point of this videois poor me, it's more just
saying these are the facts,these are my facts, this is my
story, and these are the thingsI see and the stories I hear,
just so that other women canunderstand this, especially
(11:31):
younger women, understand thatyou have to understand the
choice you're making.
It's really hard when you'reyoung to understand your choices
.
So one thing I have noticed,though, is for me now is I'm
definitely post-menopausal andthat's never going to happen,
and I'm 54.
And, like I said, part of me isfine with that.
(11:53):
Part of me has just acceptedthat a long time ago.
However, in the time now whereall the matriarchs in my family
have passed away, sort of themain ones on my mom's side of
the family, the ones that I wasreally close to not saying that
there's no other ones I love andclose to that sort of thing,
but there were just these mainthree women who were the ones
(12:13):
who brought me up, basically,and they've all gone.
And so, when I was younger, mylife, you know, birthdays and
Christmas and Mother's Days andall those events were kind of
about those people and it wasabout celebrating those people
or celebrating with those people.
Right Now they're all gone,those events are quite empty
(12:35):
because there isn't someone tocelebrate them with.
And you know, with Mother's Dayit can be.
Obviously it's really sadMother's Day when your mother's
passed away.
But for a lot of women that'skind of sad and happy, because
they're sad that their mother'spassed away but they've got
children and maybe gotgrandchildren and so they can
still celebrate mothers and theycan still celebrate motherhood.
(12:56):
While it might be sad as well,right Whereas for women who
don't have children, more oftenthan not it's actually just very
, very sad and it's quite.
Those holidays and things arequite sort of empty and that's
something that I didn't predictor didn't understand would
(13:17):
happen.
You know, when I got older Also, things like when I can't
remember stuff, some thingsmaybe that mom told me that I
really wanted to remember.
I thought it was important.
But then I think, well, whowould I tell?
Because who is the person you?
You know, it would normally beyour daughter or your son or
whatever, but it would be yourchild, that you'd pass down the
(13:38):
family stories, you'd pass downthis sort of family legacy, but
there's no one for me really topass it down to, and so that
kind of it's a bit of a sting inthat when you realize that, oh,
I won't be leaving that kind ofa legacy, that doesn't mean you
can't leave legacy in differentways.
I understand that.
(13:58):
So don't sort of go saying, oh,you could do this, you could do
I get all of that.
All I'm trying to do is justlay out some of the truth of
what it is like to be childlessat this age, and, like I said,
not for a poor me, and not thatI can't.
Sort of I talk always.
I talk about looking at, youknow, reframing things and
(14:20):
looking for glimmers and lookingfor positive things and all of
that sort of stuff, and I'm afirm believer in all that.
I get that, and I do that right.
At the same time, though it is,I think that it is important
that we're really honest aboutthese things, because I just
don't think there's enoughhonesty in this, and that's why
I want to just be really honestabout it, right, so you can have
(14:41):
certain feelings and feel acertain way and have certain
thoughts, but still be able toget on with it and move on and
be okay, and I am okay andthat's fine.
So this is not a justclarifying when I'm sort of
saying these things.
However it is.
You know, it is different,right?
So it's different.
Celebrations for me aredifferent now and I don't have
that legacy.
I don't have the person to tellthe stories to.
(15:02):
So the stories that mom told me, I've got no one to tell them
to, no one to share them withand no one that's going to carry
on that legacy.
And I don't have that sort offamily legacy thing, thinking
that, oh well, you know, whenI'm gone, my ancestors are going
to live way beyond me and Idon't have any of that and
there's something about thatthat is.
I think there's something aboutthat that is in life, that is,
(15:25):
having that, having that in yourlife, having the family and the
legacy and all that is kind ofjust normal and it's, I suppose
normal might be the wrong word,but it's how it should be.
It's how we were made.
We are human beings, we weremade to produce offspring and
there's a whole kind of wisdomto how it all worked that
(15:47):
basically, we got together, wehad children, we had
grandchildren and we had allthese different roles throughout
our life based on biology andthose biological reality, right.
So we were going to be kids ata certain time and we're going
to be moms at a certain time andthen we're going to be grandmas
at a certain time, and all ofthat.
There was roles in that, therewas meaning in that and there
(16:09):
was just a sort of a wisdom.
And just look, there was just anatural evolution about it that
we're born, we're kids, we havechildren, we have grandchildren
, whatever.
At a certain point we die,right.
There's something about thiswhole sort of biologically that
it's just natural and how itshould be.
And now there is a whole cohortof women and men I'm talking
(16:32):
about specifically women in thisbut who?
That is not that natural thing,that sort of biological thing
that we were made for.
That didn't happen, right.
And so for women in mysituation, it's actually kind of
well, it's trying to find somesort of meaning or some sort of
you know, I can't have themeaning in my children and my
(16:54):
grandchildren and making surethat they're all right.
So it's more being an auntie orbeing a sister or being you
know as other roles, right, soyou can certainly have other
roles in your life where you useyour mothering energy and you
do something good for the world.
Or it could be in how I treatmy patients, my clients, or with
(17:16):
the things I talk about on here, just leaving that legacy of
just hey, did you know this?
Maybe this is usefulinformation to know, and so
there's other ways of makingmeaning.
There's other things I can do,but just sort of letting you
know that it is quite differentand there can be a lot of
emptiness around it.
There can be a lot of just lackof meaning or lack of purpose
(17:39):
when you are childless as youget older, and also the thoughts
of you know, like when I amdealing with aging parents and
parents passing away those sortsof issues.
I've been looking after myparents, but that kind of does
make you think about who's goingto look after me.
Right, and my husband is nineyears older than me, so it may
(18:03):
just be me Again, no one knowswhat's going to happen in the
future and of course Iunderstand there's no guarantee
that.
You know, I've been in nursinghomes before where there's a
woman with seven children andnone of them come to see her.
So I get that having a familyis no guarantee that someone's
going to look after you.
I understand all of that, but Ijust wanted to share with you
(18:24):
the kinds of things that gothrough your mind, the kinds of
things that concern you, thekinds of feelings and thoughts
that you have when you're in thesituation that I am in and
again, not for sympathy oranything like that, just being
honest, because I think that itis important that you hear this
and so I suppose my message hereis that the whole kind of you
(18:45):
should have your career and doyour career and focus on that,
and children will come later.
That is not true for many people.
I don't even know if it's most,but it's not true for many.
I think.
Actually, is it 50% of womenwho don't have children?
Out of the women who don't havechildren before they're 30, 50%
(19:08):
of them, I think, never willright, and so that's just
something to have an awarenessabout.
That you really really cut downyour chances as you get older.
So what I would like to say isthat I just would like to
encourage young women, youngpeople, to focus more on what a
fulfilling life would look likefor them and just understand
(19:30):
there is a biological reality.
It doesn't mean that women can'thave careers Of course they can
.
And it doesn't mean that womencan't have careers Of course
they can.
And it doesn't mean that womencan't choose not to have
children Of course they can andsome women can't, and that's how
it is.
So it's not a judgment onanyone.
It's just me saying that whenyou're looking at what you want
to do in your life, if having afamily is part of that or feels
(19:51):
like it might be part of that, Iwant you to bring your
attention to it earlier.
I want you to think about itearlier.
And yes, you can put yourcareer on hold for a little
while and have children and goand focus more on your career
later if you want to.
But the whole idea of, oh, Icould just freeze my eggs and
blah, blah, blah and go and dothe career.
(20:11):
I'll come back and think aboutit when I'm 35.
Yeah, anyone who sells you thatbill of goods is not telling
you the truth.
And while some women can and dodo that and it works out for
them, for all those women, forevery one of those women, that
works out for I can tell youthere's a whole lot more that it
didn't work out for, andthey've spent $10,000 each round
(20:34):
for IVF.
It's probably more now.
That's how much it was.
Last time I was aware of howmuch it was is 10 years ago or
something, and they might havespent a hundred thousand dollars
, they might have spent twohundred thousand dollars,
whatever, and all of the all ofeverything that goes into doing
IVF.
It's very traumatic emotionallyand physically for many couples
and for many women.
(20:55):
So I just wanted to bringattention to the fact that I
believe that young women andyoung couples should think more
about family and more aboutdoing that sooner rather than
later.
Your career can wait and youwill be.
I believe for the most part,you'll be more fulfilled if you
(21:15):
have a family, because I thinkthat's just the way that humans
were meant to be and part ofwhat women were biologically
here for, not to say again thatpeople can't have careers and
all of that.
I can hear all the feministsfreaking out.
Not at all.
I think that women can do lotsof different things, and that's
what's wonderful too, and I'mglad that we can and I'm glad
(21:38):
that we have those rights andthose choices.
However, there is a biologicalreality to having babies.
I suppose, if I sum up what I'mtrying to say here, the summary
is there is an absolutebiological reality to bearing
children that women carry.
That is a very, very, it's very, it's very true, very real.
(22:00):
And it has a very, very, it'svery true, very real.
And it has a very, verydefinite end point.
And the longer you leave it,the harder it is and the more
likely it is that it won'thappen for you and I don't think
, for many women.
I'm not saying all, I'll neversay all about anyone.
(22:20):
I can't speak for everyone, butI think for many women the
career feels hollow if theyweren't able to have the
children.
The career doesn't quite fillthat right, and again, not all,
but just many.
I've talked to a lot of womenand heard a lot of stories and I
just want you to know that whenyou're thinking about your
(22:41):
plans for your life.
The other thing is that when Ihear people talking about having
children, they talk about theright time.
It's not the right time becausewe need to sort of buy the
house or pay off the thing or dothe thing or do whatever.
There is never going to be aperfectly right time to have
(23:01):
children, where everything'sperfect.
Occasionally, people mightachieve that.
They might get married and payoff the house and everything's
great and good on them.
That might be true for somepeople, but the truth is life is
kind of messy and there's nevernecessarily good times, because
always in your life there'sgoing to be a financial issue or
there's a job issue, or there'ssomeone who passes away or
(23:24):
there's someone who's ill.
All this, there's all sorts ofthings that happen in life that
mean that there's never you know, you'll never have all the
ducks in a row.
It's never going to be perfect,it's never going to be the
perfect time.
So and and I think the otherthing too is that I believe this
generation has in their mindthat they have to have all these
things in place.
So before you can have a child,you've got to have two cars and
(23:49):
this and that and a lovelyhouse and blah, blah, blah you
actually don't need all of that.
Not saying it's not useful andit's not helpful.
And I'm not encouraging peopleto be on the street and starving
with their child.
I'm not encouraging people tobe on the street and starving
with their child.
I'm not encouraging that.
All I'm saying is there's a lotof couples that can they have
children and maybe they can livewith their parents for the
first year or so.
Might not be ideal, but that'ssomething you can do, right.
(24:13):
Or you might just live in areally ordinary, horrible place
for a while when your childrenare younger and as you get older
, when you go back to work,whatever.
Maybe you can live in a nicerhouse or whatever.
It is right.
All I'm trying to say is youdon't have to have it all
perfect before you have children.
You certainly have to have alevel of stability and, ideally,
(24:38):
some support systems around you, maybe someone like a grandma,
grandpa, those aunties, whatever.
But you don't have to haveeverything in place and
everything perfect before youhave children.
And I think some people, Ithink we're convinced it's
almost like there's this listthat women have in their head
now, this list of I've got tohave all these things in place
(25:02):
before I can have my family.
And all I'm trying to say isyou don't have to have all of
the list in place, and I thinkthat there's this falsity that's
been put into people's headthat all of these things have to
be in place before you can havea family.
It's just simply not true.
So, anyway, that's just my sortof encouragement to women to
(25:22):
think about their fertility,understand that it is finite and
understand that really havingchildren when you're younger is
really important.
I know it can't happen foreveryone and this is no judgment
on people who this doesn't workout for them.
They don't find the partner.
Whatever the situation is notmeant as a judgment, but I think
I like to have importantconversations about things that
(25:42):
matter.
I think it's important to talkabout the truth of what not
having children can be like, andbecause I think the other thing
that our society does is oursociety says oh well, you get to
sleep in or you get to go toparties or you get to do all
this, and that might be true.
However, there's a certainpoint in life where being able
to sleep in and go to parties oryou get to do all this, and
that might be true.
However, there's a certainpoint in life where being able
(26:02):
to sleep in and go to partiesand that sort of stuff, it's not
fulfilling.
It doesn't fulfill you for alifetime, right?
So I think we just tell lots andwe also tell, we emphasize so
much about how hard it is havingchildren, everything about so
hard and it's so awful and sobad and blah, blah, blah and not
having children so easy.
(26:24):
And you know there's all theseinfluences online kind of going
on my life is easy, breezy, Idon't have children.
And you know, while all thatmight be true to an extent, it's
not complete.
It's not all.
It's like I said, every, everysituation has its negatives and
positives, right?
So having children when you'reyounger, or having children at
all, has its negatives.
(26:44):
Yeah, they make a mess.
Everything's messy, your life'sgoing to be messy for many
years and you're going to havelack of sleep for many years and
you're responsible for someoneelse and it can be really,
really hard and it's all of thethings that having children
super hard, lots of things aboutsuper hard.
I get that.
All of the things that havingchildren super hard, lots of
things about super hard.
I get that.
It also is fulfilling.
It gives you a sense of purpose, and children bring a lot of
(27:08):
joy and bring a lot of love andbring a lot of wonderful things
into the lives of their familiesand people around them.
And so I just think that in oursociety, we choose to tell half
of the story.
We tell half of the story abouthaving children oh it's all bad
, and then half of the storyabout not having children it's
all good.
And I just think we should tellthe full stories of both of
(27:30):
those situations and then peoplecan make decisions for
themselves based on theirsituation and what they want to
do.
But telling half stories isn'thelpful and as hard as having
children is.
I've not met many people, ifany people, in my life not many
people that would do it, wouldnot want their children, would
(27:53):
want it different, right they?
You know what they've gainedfrom having children is far
greater than what they've lostfrom having children.
So I just want to put someperspective there, a little bit
of truth, a little bit ofhonesty, so that just to
encourage especially youngerwomen, younger people, to kind
of think a little bit more aboutthis fertility issue and
(28:14):
whether or not it's somethingthey can just put on the back
burner till later, which you canchoose to do that.
But if you choose to do that,you are playing largely with
fire because you know the olderyou get, the more likely it's
not going to happen.
So anyway, that's justsomething I felt, that a
discussion.
I felt that needed to happenand that hasn't really been
(28:35):
happening in a really honest way, so I just wanted to add my bit
there.
I hope you found that useful,please, and I'd love to hear
anyone if you have yourexperiences or your feedback,
I'd love to hear that and please, you know, like, subscribe,
share and rate and review theshow.
It really, really helps me.
Hope you have a great week andyou know, I know that this can
(28:58):
be a challenging topic forpeople, so sorry if it's brought
some things up for you, but Ithink this we need to have real
conversations and, you know,putting, pretending that these
issues don't exist doesn't helpanyone, I don't think.
Anyway, I hope you have alovely week and I'll talk to you
all again next week where wehave real conversations about
(29:20):
things that matter.
Thanks, bye.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.